| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
tadzik |
leontopod: I'm quite sure you can |
| 00:02 |
tadzik |
istr a pal showing such thing on a PM meeting |
| 00:05 |
leontopod |
cool |
| 00:30 |
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| 00:39 |
timotimo |
is there any protocol to uploading a new pdf snapshot of the perl 6 book? |
| 00:42 |
timotimo |
i get lots of kpathsea: Invalid fontname '*' contains ' ' |
| 00:42 |
leontopod |
timotimo, torrents? |
| 00:42 |
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| 00:43 |
timotimo |
hm, i meant something like "what to do before and after doing that" |
| 00:43 |
timotimo |
also: this pdf has only 5 pages :\ |
| 00:44 |
timotimo |
probably due to missing fonts |
| 00:45 |
timotimo |
i have to install acroread-data and 9base? |
| 00:46 |
timotimo |
didn't help. i give up. someone with a functioning environment can do it some time |
| 00:47 |
timotimo |
make html works, but isn't very pretty to look at |
| 00:59 |
jnthn |
sleep & |
| 01:05 |
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| 01:23 |
skeebitt22 |
hello all |
| 01:26 |
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| 01:27 |
whiteknight |
every time jnthn posts about his progress on Rakudo, I find myself thinking: "I wish all these features were in Parrot core" |
| 01:47 |
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| 01:52 |
sorear |
good * #perl6 |
| 01:52 |
zpmorgan |
.u � |
| 01:52 |
phenny |
U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER (�) |
| 01:56 |
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| 02:25 |
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| 02:37 |
sorear |
colomon: yeah, user-defined operators are hosed, and I'm struggling to figure out why |
| 02:40 |
skids |
nom: role M { multi method Str (Int:D $self:) { "OHAI" } }; my $a = 1 but M; $a.say; |
| 02:40 |
p6eval |
nom 828e4d: OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'Str'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures::(Int:D , Mu %_!):(Int:D $self, Mu %_!)» |
| 02:42 |
skids |
so being defined in a role doesn't give that "inner or derived scope"? |
| 02:44 |
skids |
Or I guess Int's .Str is similarly defined... hmm. |
| 02:44 |
sorear |
I don't think "inner or derived scope" affects MMD in Rakudo yet |
| 02:44 |
skids |
Ah. |
| 03:04 |
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| 03:36 |
colomon |
sorear: o/ |
| 03:40 |
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| 03:47 |
colomon |
niecza: say 'a' ∈ <a b c d e> |
| 03:48 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-32-g760a302: OUTPUT«True» |
| 03:48 |
colomon |
sorear: I feel like an idiot for not figuring out what the problem was with that this morning... looked repeatedly at non-class code trying to access a private attribute. |
| 03:49 |
colomon |
TimToady: btw, it does seem to work now. now we need a honking large test file for it... ;) |
| 03:49 |
colomon |
sorear++ |
| 03:49 |
colomon |
bedtime |
| 03:49 |
sorear |
to be fair, the error message is quite LTA |
| 03:49 |
sorear |
sleep well |
| 04:04 |
retupmoca |
aww, NativeCall doesn't support callbacks :( |
| 04:07 |
TimToady |
so fix it! :) |
| 04:07 |
retupmoca |
I will, if I can figure out how |
| 04:16 |
skids |
Is there a way for a role to reject being runtime mixed into something. Like e.g. a role that does not like to be mixed into odd numbers? |
| 04:20 |
sorear |
are you sure you don't want to write a subtype instead? |
| 04:22 |
dalek |
niecza: 20f241a | sorear++ | src/NieczaFrontendSTD.pm6: |
| 04:22 |
dalek |
niecza: Dehose and slightly optimize user-defined operators |
| 04:22 |
dalek |
niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/20f241af47 |
| 04:22 |
* skids |
contemplates that. Meanwhile JOOC: |
| 04:23 |
skids |
std: role A[Int $self: ] { } |
| 04:23 |
p6eval |
std 48335fc: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 110m» |
| 04:23 |
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| 04:24 |
TimToady |
STD does not check anything on that level |
| 04:25 |
sorear |
skids: $self will always be an undefined value |
| 04:25 |
sorear |
roles are mixed into types, not values |
| 04:25 |
sorear |
I think whatever you're doing, you're doing very very wrong |
| 04:26 |
skids |
probably. |
| 04:31 |
skids |
So basically a role never has any idea as to the type of thing it is being applied to, other than it can supply method longnames with different invocants... |
| 04:32 |
skids |
(above I was more aiming at rola A [::T $self:] and hoping it might mean "undef of type I'm being applied to") |
| 04:33 |
sorear |
You can already access that via ::?CLASS |
| 04:37 |
skids |
Yes, what I was wondering really was was that was semantically meaningful, just out of curiosity (JOOC). |
| 04:46 |
skids |
subtype doesn't seem to graft to the possible usage mode I was exploring very well, no. |
| 04:55 |
skids |
nom: role A { "hi".say; }; 1 but A; 2 but A; # is that specced to happen on each mixin? |
| 04:55 |
p6eval |
nom 828e4d: OUTPUT«hihi» |
| 04:56 |
dalek |
niecza: 1b3d1e8 | sorear++ | src/NieczaFrontendSTD.pm6: |
| 04:56 |
dalek |
niecza: Reenable overriding predefined operators with different precedence, oops |
| 04:56 |
dalek |
niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1b3d1e8f2b |
| 04:56 |
skids |
I thought stuff like that was supposed to only run once. |
| 04:57 |
doy |
well, it has to run each time if the role has parameters, at least |
| 04:58 |
doy |
not sure whether or not it makes sense to have a special case for roles without parameters |
| 04:58 |
sorear |
one of the odder features of new-model roles is that they take the class as a parameter |
| 04:58 |
sorear |
not the base class - the nascent class |
| 04:59 |
doy |
that is odd |
| 04:59 |
sorear |
so the role has to be reinvoked for each new class created, even without explicit parameters |
| 04:59 |
sorear |
arguably, 'but' should be doing some caching to not create lots and lots of "Int but A" classes |
| 05:01 |
skids |
Is that just to be considered an implementation side-effect, or reliable behavior going forward? |
| 05:02 |
TimToady |
we are deliberately prejudicing things in favor of immutable semantics, so modifying things in place is a second-class citizen |
| 05:03 |
TimToady |
we want implementations to freely cache identical mixins and not duplicate anon classes |
| 05:04 |
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| 05:05 |
skids |
but once per class/class-parameter-combo, we could do an "if $*CLASS ~~ /.../ warn(...)" or something in there? |
| 05:05 |
TimToady |
Perl 6 is fundamentally FP more than fundamentally OO, so we prefer things to be stateless whenever possible |
| 05:06 |
TimToady |
we also prefer the more generic code not to play guessing games with less generic code |
| 05:07 |
TimToady |
because the generic code will never be generic enough to anticipate all usages |
| 05:07 |
TimToady |
wanting to do so generally indicates a design smell |
| 05:08 |
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| 05:08 |
TimToady |
certainly if the generic code must have some invariants, that's possible to enforce with things like PRE/POST though |
| 05:09 |
sorear |
I suspect that skids is trying to use roles for something fundamentally different from genericity |
| 05:09 |
TimToady |
we may eventually end up with a COMPOSE phaser, but I suspect it will be frequently abused for bad purposes |
| 05:11 |
skids |
really I'm just exploring options at this point. |
| 05:13 |
sorear |
what sort of options? perhaps we can help |
| 05:13 |
TimToady |
ain't we all, but it helps to understand the underlying philosophy, and go with it rather than against it |
| 05:14 |
skids |
Sure. I wouldn't want to produce frankencode, nobody would want to use it. |
| 05:14 |
skids |
sorear: "How is this going to look to the user" and "what about the user who prefers to do things this way?" types of options. |
| 05:16 |
TimToady |
that tends to shade into the user that says "I only learned to think this one way, so why can't I use this hammer on everything?" :) |
| 05:17 |
skids |
Sure, but also there's merit to preserving tmwtdi :-) |
| 05:18 |
TimToady |
yes, but "more than one" is not the same as "all" |
| 05:18 |
sorear |
ffff |
| 05:19 |
sorear |
I have a non-bisectable failure in S06-operator-overloading/sub.t |
| 05:19 |
TimToady |
fortissississimo |
| 05:19 |
* sorear |
tries updating mono |
| 05:33 |
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| 05:34 |
leontopod |
fortissimo is a great jug wine |
| 05:35 |
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| 05:35 |
tadzik |
it's italian for 'very loud', iirc |
| 05:42 |
moritz |
colomon: yes, the prisoner's harness is *the* test harness |
| 05:44 |
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| 05:46 |
moritz |
perl6: my Num $s;for 1e0..1e3 -> Num $i {$s+=1e0/$i**2};say $s |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«1.6439345666815615» |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
..rakudo 828e4d: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$i'; expected Num but got Int instead» |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«1.6439345666815598031390580238222155896521» |
| 05:47 |
* moritz |
submits rakudobug |
| 05:47 |
moritz |
nom: for 1e0 .. 1e0 { say .WHAT } |
| 05:47 |
sorear |
perl6: say pi**2/6 |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
nom 828e4d: OUTPUT«Int()» |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
pugs b927740: OUTPUT«1.6449340668482261867549189638081666666667» |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
..niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«1.6449340668482264» |
| 05:47 |
p6eval |
..rakudo 828e4d: OUTPUT«1.644934063089» |
| 05:47 |
sorear |
#optimized that for you |
| 05:49 |
* sorear |
builds a new mono to better investigate the segfaults in sub.t |
| 05:50 |
moritz |
nom: for 1.1e0 .. 2.1e0 { say .WHAT } |
| 05:50 |
p6eval |
nom 828e4d: OUTPUT«Num()Num()» |
| 05:50 |
moritz |
nom: for 1e0 .. 2e0 { say .WHAT } |
| 05:50 |
p6eval |
nom 828e4d: OUTPUT«Int()Int()» |
| 05:57 |
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| 06:23 |
moritz |
nom: say (1e0 .. 2e0).perl |
| 06:23 |
p6eval |
nom 828e4d: OUTPUT«1e0..2e0» |
| 06:24 |
leontopod |
is Haskell actually used to DO anything? |
| 06:26 |
moritz |
supposedly, yes |
| 06:26 |
bonsaikitten |
leontopod: every now and then, yes |
| 06:27 |
moritz |
xmonad is used quite a bit |
| 06:28 |
moritz |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_%28programming_language%29#Applications |
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Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! |
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benabik |
There's a local shop that does all their work in Haskell. I think they do financial forecasting and the like. (Or maybe that was two people who were on campus the same day. Not sure.) |
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sorear_ |
yes, Haskell is quite popular with high finance. |
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sorear_ |
they are not the only user though. |
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Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! |
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Su-Shee |
good morning everyone. |
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moritz |
\o |
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sorear |
o/ moritz, Su-Shee |
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| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: 3bfaa06 | moritz++ | src/core/Range.pm: |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Range iteration fixes |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: * allows big integer ranges |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: * numifies the upper limit if the lower one is numeric |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3bfaa06ad1 |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: e035eed | moritz++ | src/core/Range.pm: |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Num ranges now produce Num lists |
| 09:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e035eed1eb |
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| 09:59 |
dalek |
roast: 53c3cd2 | moritz++ | S03-operators/range.t: |
| 09:59 |
dalek |
roast: test ranges of bigints and nums |
| 09:59 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/53c3cd2249 |
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| 10:31 |
masak |
good antenoon, #perl6 |
| 10:33 |
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| 10:33 |
masak |
[backlog] heh, I'd hate to be remembered as "the guy who used Perl 6 in production". :P |
| 10:33 |
masak |
put Perl 6 to the test people! all of you! |
| 10:33 |
masak |
s/test/test,/ |
| 10:35 |
masak |
also, my the first project that I ever planned to write in Perl 6 was actually a supercool RPG game. |
| 10:35 |
masak |
kind of a framework for scriptable adventure game worlds. |
| 10:37 |
masak |
also, in the department of "sentences no-one could predict": "I can code C/C++ already and my hair is sacred." :) |
| 10:40 |
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| 10:52 |
snarkyboojum |
some uses of Perl 6 in production might imply production Haskell use! :O |
| 10:52 |
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| 10:53 |
snarkyboojum |
but seriously, I've used both Haskell and Perl 6 in production, though that could just a sign that I shouldn't be given prod access ;) |
| 10:56 |
masak |
right tool for the job. that's all there is to it. |
| 10:56 |
snarkyboojum |
someone else say something, quickly! |
| 10:56 |
snarkyboojum |
ah - masak to the rescue |
| 11:00 |
snarkyboojum |
though "right tool" isn't necessarily simple either ;) |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:09 |
masak |
indeed, it isn't. |
| 11:09 |
masak |
but it tells us something about the needs to keep up-to-date on tools :) |
| 11:10 |
masak |
I gave a Perl 5 course in January. in preparing the material, I learned a lot of little tidbits about tools. |
| 11:11 |
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| 11:26 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: a61dbd5 | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION: |
| 11:26 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: bump NQP revision |
| 11:26 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a61dbd5507 |
| 11:33 |
dalek |
roast: d93480e | moritz++ | S0 (2 files): |
| 11:33 |
dalek |
roast: two rakudo unfudges |
| 11:33 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d93480e56f |
| 11:39 |
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| 11:39 |
Home |
rakudo: say "test" |
| 11:40 |
p6eval |
rakudo e035ee: OUTPUT«test» |
| 11:40 |
Home |
rakudo: say <STDIN> |
| 11:40 |
p6eval |
rakudo e035ee: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===Unsupported use of <STDIN>; in Perl 6 please use $*IN.lines (or add whitespace to suppress warning)at /tmp/kbkZxc4TNg:1» |
| 11:41 |
|
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| 11:43 |
moritz |
welcome Home! |
| 11:45 |
masak |
Home just wanted to test p6eval and our excellent error messages; he already left, fully satisfied. |
| 11:46 |
moritz |
I know he left, I just couldn't resist the pun :-) |
| 11:46 |
masak |
I know :) |
| 11:49 |
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| 12:25 |
not_gerd |
hello, #perl6 |
| 12:25 |
phenny |
not_gerd: 08 Feb 21:51Z <jnthn> tell not_gerd that's up to the REPR to do. See P6opaque - it keeps it around in its REPR_data. |
| 12:25 |
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| 12:33 |
* [Coke] |
yawns |
| 12:47 |
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| 12:51 |
moritz |
jnthn: fwiw the 'bs' branch in nom fails to build here |
| 12:51 |
moritz |
In file included from serializationcontext.c:29: |
| 12:51 |
moritz |
../6model/sixmodelobject.h:143: error: redefinition of typedef ‘STable’ |
| 12:51 |
moritz |
../6model/serialization.h:49: note: previous declaration of ‘STable’ was here |
| 13:00 |
jnthn |
moritz: Curious - mine doesn't so much as warn me, let alone error. |
| 13:03 |
not_gerd |
jnthn: typedefs are semantically definitions, and re-definitions are not allowed (if they are not tentative) |
| 13:06 |
jnthn |
not_gerd: Where by tentative you mean? |
| 13:07 |
jnthn |
oh, I see |
| 13:07 |
jnthn |
duh |
| 13:07 |
not_gerd |
int x; int x = 5; is legal as long as you only assign once |
| 13:07 |
not_gerd |
it's a technical term from the C standard |
| 13:07 |
jnthn |
ok |
| 13:08 |
dalek |
nqp/bs: 686b47b | jnthn++ | src/6model/sixmodelobject.h: |
| 13:08 |
dalek |
nqp/bs: Fix typedef redefinition that busted the build on some compilers (moritz++ for reporting). |
| 13:08 |
dalek |
nqp/bs: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/686b47b71d |
| 13:08 |
not_gerd |
jnthn: https://gist.github.com/1789578 is what I'm using... |
| 13:10 |
moritz |
nom: class A { $.x handles <Numeric> = 5; method x() { return $!x * 2 } }; say A.new.Numeric |
| 13:10 |
p6eval |
nom a61dbd: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2» |
| 13:11 |
moritz |
nom: class A { $.x handles <Numeric>; method x() { return $!x * 2 } }; say A.new(x => 5).Numeric |
| 13:11 |
p6eval |
nom a61dbd: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2» |
| 13:11 |
jnthn |
Missing "has" |
| 13:11 |
moritz |
nom: class A { has $.x handles <Numeric>; method x() { return $!x * 2 } }; say A.new(x => 5).Numeric |
| 13:11 |
p6eval |
nom a61dbd: OUTPUT«5» |
| 13:11 |
moritz |
jnthn++ |
| 13:11 |
moritz |
so the attribute takes care of the 'handles', not the accessor |
| 13:12 |
jnthn |
Correct. |
| 13:12 |
moritz |
makes sense if you think about it, because it means you can delegate to private attributes too :-) |
| 13:12 |
jnthn |
Well, the generated delegation method looks up the attribute |
| 13:12 |
jnthn |
Pretty sure traits.pm has the implementation of handles |
| 13:14 |
moritz |
nom: multi a($x) { }; multi a(*@a) { }; say a(3) |
| 13:14 |
p6eval |
nom a61dbd: OUTPUT«Nil» |
| 13:26 |
dalek |
roast: 3a7fb4f | moritz++ | S12-class/anonymous.t: |
| 13:26 |
dalek |
roast: RT #80024, anon class is anon |
| 13:26 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3a7fb4fb42 |
| 13:26 |
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| 13:28 |
moritz |
ok, I have a feature request |
| 13:28 |
moritz |
I want both 'CATCH' and 'default' to take statements too, not only blocks |
| 13:29 |
moritz |
you can write try foo(); without a block |
| 13:29 |
moritz |
but sometimes I also want to write CATCH default $died = 1; |
| 13:29 |
moritz |
or similar stuff |
| 13:33 |
jnthn |
Thing is that you expect CATCH to get $_ to the exception. And if there's no block there it could be a little misleading. |
| 13:33 |
jnthn |
s/get/set/ |
| 13:33 |
jnthn |
Maybe that's not a fatal issue |
| 13:34 |
jnthn |
Are there use cases for CATCH without a block other than using default? |
| 13:36 |
moritz |
sure |
| 13:36 |
moritz |
CATCH when X::JustOneException { ... } |
| 13:37 |
moritz |
but I don't think topicalizatioin is a problem; after all smart-matching is also a mini-topicalizer |
| 13:37 |
jnthn |
True |
| 13:37 |
moritz |
as is statement_control:sym<when> |
| 13:37 |
moritz |
erm, s/when/given/ |
| 13:37 |
moritz |
though 'when |
| 13:37 |
moritz |
is too |
| 13:37 |
moritz |
or not, dunno. I forgot :-) |
| 13:39 |
masak |
CATCH, being a phaser, looks perfectly normal in expression form. |
| 13:39 |
masak |
but default doesn't, to my eyes. |
| 13:40 |
moritz |
well, because your eyes aren't yet used to it |
| 13:40 |
masak |
of course. |
| 13:40 |
masak |
but I believe it's also indicative of a real pattern. |
| 13:40 |
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| 13:40 |
masak |
default belongs to a group of things that always take a block. |
| 13:40 |
masak |
CATCH doesn't. |
| 13:40 |
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| 13:40 |
masak |
I just wanted to call attention to that through my bias :) |
| 13:41 |
jnthn |
Yeah, default does bother me a tad more than CATCH |
| 13:42 |
moritz |
well, I request both and get one. That's not too bad by #perl6 feature request standards :-) |
| 13:42 |
masak |
:D |
| 13:42 |
masak |
we're here to help. :) |
| 13:43 |
masak |
CATCH say "oops!" when X::JustOneException; |
| 13:43 |
masak |
should be OK, right? |
| 13:43 |
masak |
it reads extremely well. |
| 13:44 |
moritz |
but won't work |
| 13:44 |
masak |
wrong nesting? |
| 13:44 |
moritz |
because statement-modifying 'when' doesn't succeed the block |
| 13:44 |
masak |
oh! |
| 13:44 |
moritz |
thus the 'oops!' will be printed, and then the exception is rethrown |
| 13:45 |
masak |
...unless that's what you want... |
| 13:48 |
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| 14:16 |
colomon |
moritz: okay, I have a strategy which is slightly better than tit-for-tat. :) |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:20 |
moritz |
colomon: submit! submit! |
| 14:20 |
colomon |
I'm not sure I should before the last possible minute. ;) |
| 14:20 |
moritz |
you should |
| 14:20 |
moritz |
you can also replace your submission with later submissions, if you want |
| 14:21 |
colomon |
I'm more concerned with keeping my techniques secret. ;) |
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| 14:32 |
moritz |
well, I won't publish any submissions before the deadline, and my own strategies are already written and their SHA1 published |
| 14:32 |
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| 14:39 |
tadzik |
friday, friday! |
| 14:41 |
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| 14:42 |
moritz |
TCIF indeed! |
| 14:44 |
tadzik |
TCIF? |
| 14:44 |
moritz |
Thank Chrunchy It's Friday |
| 14:44 |
tadzik |
heh |
| 14:44 |
tadzik |
it also means the end of the exam session \o/ |
| 14:45 |
moritz |
\o/ time for tadzik++ to write a Prisoner's Dilemma strategy! |
| 14:45 |
tadzik |
yay! |
| 14:47 |
* [Coke] |
, running a niecza auto-un-fudge, realizes he has another fudge patch he never pushed. whoops. |
| 14:47 |
* [Coke] |
will see if it gets any bigger first. |
| 14:52 |
uno_be |
win 6 |
| 14:59 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:04 |
* etneg_ |
checks if niezca has a site |
| 15:04 |
* etneg_ |
sits back and relaxes till one's up |
| 15:05 |
tadzik |
niecza |
| 15:06 |
moritz |
etneg_: anything missing from https://github.com/sorear/niecza ? |
| 15:07 |
etneg_ |
doesnt look like it |
| 15:09 |
etneg_ |
is that a trick question |
| 15:11 |
moritz |
no, it's a real question |
| 15:11 |
moritz |
the question is if we have a good reason to build and maintain a website for niecza |
| 15:11 |
moritz |
or if the github page is enough |
| 15:11 |
etneg_ |
i think so |
| 15:11 |
etneg_ |
didnt you guys say it was like totally awesome or something |
| 15:11 |
etneg_ |
heh |
| 15:11 |
etneg_ |
sorry i dont code:D |
| 15:12 |
moritz |
it *is* totatlly awesome |
| 15:12 |
moritz |
you should really start :-) |
| 15:13 |
etneg_ |
well considering it's on par with rakudo and rakudo has a website |
| 15:13 |
etneg_ |
i'd think niecza should go in the same direction |
| 15:14 |
etneg_ |
my 2$ opinion |
| 15:16 |
moritz |
thanks for your opinion |
| 15:16 |
etneg_ |
and reading more, it lookslike it's being compared to raudo |
| 15:16 |
etneg_ |
rakudo |
| 15:17 |
etneg_ |
so certainly a website |
| 15:17 |
moritz |
I also think it needs a website to be taken seriously, but I'm not (yet?) ready to volunteer to make one |
| 15:18 |
etneg_ |
possibly a wiki page would be a good start |
| 15:21 |
moritz |
somehow I have bad experience with wiki pages |
| 15:21 |
etneg_ |
well it's a start |
| 15:21 |
etneg_ |
:D |
| 15:21 |
moritz |
it's what you do if you create a page to then abandon, hoping that the rest of the world will maintain it |
| 15:22 |
* [Coke] |
accidentally makes feather REALLY slow for a litle while. |
| 15:22 |
[Coke] |
*little |
| 15:25 |
* flussence |
just wrote a completely nonsensical PD strategy which does only slightly worse than tit-for-tat |
| 15:25 |
dalek |
roast: 702aa34 | coke++ | S (14 files): |
| 15:25 |
dalek |
roast: niecza auto-unfudge |
| 15:25 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/702aa34958 |
| 15:38 |
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| 16:01 |
leontopod |
I think pushing perl 6 in a functional programming direction is a disaster. |
| 16:01 |
leontopod |
You are going to push it right into academia. |
| 16:05 |
TimToady |
that's only one of the places we're going to push it :P |
| 16:08 |
flussence |
.oO( nobody uses functional languages! just look at how SQL flopped! ) |
| 16:08 |
TimToady |
but the P still stands for Practical and Pathological |
| 16:10 |
TimToady |
you fundamental mistake is to assume that if something is better for academia, it must necessarily be worse for everything else, and this is...not yet proven... :) |
| 16:11 |
TimToady |
*your |
| 16:11 |
daxim |
sql is counted chiefly among the declarative languages, not the functional ones |
| 16:12 |
leontopod |
Is that really you, Larry? |
| 16:12 |
leontopod |
wow, I am talking to Larry Wall! =) |
| 16:12 |
TimToady |
I'll never tell... |
| 16:13 |
TimToady |
daxim: declarative and functional are not exclusive concepts in my head |
| 16:14 |
daxim |
certainly, but I was surprised to see sql named as an example of a non-floppy functional language |
| 16:16 |
TimToady |
sure, and dduncan++ shows up here regularly to point out how floppy SQL is compared to whatever he's calling his new language these days :) |
| 16:18 |
TimToady |
anyway, both of those are really mushy concepts because it's really hard to make something that is theoretically pure and also practical, so people compromise on their designs to varying degrees, but still call them "declarative" and/or "functional" |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:22 |
TimToady |
Perl 6 is multiparadigmatic, which means it can't be monodogmatic about any of them. |
| 16:23 |
* au |
still thinks P stands for Polymorphic... |
| 16:23 |
TimToady |
:D |
| 16:23 |
[Coke] |
au: hey! |
| 16:23 |
au |
/o |
| 16:27 |
TimToady |
for sure, Perl 6 is becoming more existential, despite having been cursed and recursed for having too many lambdas... :) |
| 16:28 |
leontopod |
THUS SPAKE LARRYTHUSTRA |
| 16:29 |
au |
well, we did start with a rather cursive syntax in the first place... :) |
| 16:29 |
TimToady |
"It's full of asterisks!" |
| 16:29 |
TimToady |
anyway, been there, have the T-shirt, which I still wear fondly from time to time |
| 16:30 |
au |
*delighted* |
| 16:30 |
leontopod |
actually an "It's full of asterisks!" T-shirt would rule |
| 16:31 |
TimToady |
though I often have to point out that it's an *imaginary* timeline, and the "hack, hack, hack" bit looks more like a long-term graph of the stock market |
| 16:31 |
|
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| 16:32 |
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| 16:32 |
[Coke] |
my god. it's full of whatever. |
| 16:33 |
|
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| 16:33 |
leontopod |
the stock market is a big ponzi scheme |
| 16:34 |
TimToady |
still, recent recessions notwithstanding, stock market curves to tend upward over the long term, so I guess you might say I'm bullish on Perl 6 |
| 16:34 |
leontopod |
maybe Perl 6 is a big ponzi scheme! =D |
| 16:34 |
TimToady |
shh! |
| 16:34 |
leontopod |
to suck in more and more programmers! |
| 16:35 |
yertalert |
lol |
| 16:35 |
TimToady |
so far we suck at that :) |
| 16:38 |
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| 16:40 |
flussence |
Perl 6 seems more like building pyramids than a pyramid scheme sometimes... but that just means it'll last 5000 years |
| 16:42 |
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| 16:42 |
TimToady |
hmm, maybe we need to install some traps for grave robbers... |
| 16:43 |
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| 16:48 |
TimToady |
actually, they're already there: the attempt to backport Perl 6 features to Perl 5 has already demonstrated some of those traps :) |
| 16:50 |
flussence |
(are they still trying to backport "." and "~"?) |
| 16:52 |
[Coke] |
there was a patch for it. |
| 16:52 |
TimToady |
dunno; all I know is it's much easier to break everything at once than one piece at a time |
| 16:54 |
TimToady |
and the cumulative pain of evolving Perl 5 into a Perl 6 one bit a time would be much greater than the pain we've had developing Perl 6, and would take much longer |
| 16:54 |
jnthn |
evening, #perl6 |
| 16:54 |
leontopod |
Perl 5 is undergoing ferocious development |
| 16:55 |
leontopod |
what are they up to Perl 5.14 now? |
| 16:56 |
geekosaur |
most recent release, yeh |
| 16:57 |
TimToady |
sure, it's ferocious; nevertheless, it's ferocious like a lion chained to a gatepost, so it doesn't get so far down the road as it otherwise might... |
| 17:01 |
leontopod |
Is it true that Perl 5 has preprocessor definitions that are thousands of characters long? |
| 17:01 |
leontopod |
I love the C preprocessor. |
| 17:01 |
* geekosaur |
has not looked but it would not be uniquein having such |
| 17:02 |
leontopod |
A simple text preprocessor, why can't we have that for Perl 6? |
| 17:02 |
jnthn |
TimToady: I haz a silly question. In "my $x = [+] 1,2,3", what is it that makes the %item_assignment prec limit not cause <initializer> to stop parsing at the first comma, but swallow the rest of the list as the operand to the meta-op? |
| 17:02 |
leontopod |
Why gussy it all up? |
| 17:02 |
timotimo |
leontopod: who stops you from using m4 for perl5? |
| 17:02 |
leontopod |
because m4 doesn't come with Windows? |
| 17:02 |
timotimo |
neither does perl5 |
| 17:02 |
timotimo |
or c++ |
| 17:02 |
timotimo |
or c |
| 17:03 |
|
p6eval joined #perl6 |
| 17:03 |
yertalert |
Or anything useful |
| 17:03 |
leontopod |
perl -P, baby |
| 17:03 |
jnthn |
yertalert: Hey, we got Notepad! |
| 17:04 |
leontopod |
Notepad got some kind of software award. |
| 17:04 |
yertalert |
lol |
| 17:04 |
leontopod |
But they couldn't figure out who actually wrote it. |
| 17:04 |
yertalert |
It amazes me that so many windows apps have remained unchanged since 3.1 |
| 17:05 |
leontopod |
hey, windows 3.1, trumpet winsock, and netscape navigator was a pretty peppy combination on a 28k modem back in the day |
| 17:05 |
yertalert |
But, I do prefer an extremely light weight editor like notepad for just scratching out ideas |
| 17:06 |
yertalert |
That's why I have leafpad on Linux |
| 17:06 |
leontopod |
I think Microsoft should give away Windows 98 for free. |
| 17:06 |
yertalert |
and it has line numbering! |
| 17:06 |
yertalert |
lol, why? |
| 17:07 |
tadzik |
so we can play games, obviously |
| 17:07 |
|
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| 17:08 |
benabik |
I wonder how long you can have a copy of Win98 connected to the internet before it's riddled with viruses. |
| 17:08 |
moritz |
does it even come with a network stack? :-) |
| 17:08 |
timotimo |
i think it was less than 30 minutes the last time i read about that |
| 17:08 |
timotimo |
and that's already quite a long time ago |
| 17:08 |
benabik |
I think the network stack started being standard with 95... |
| 17:09 |
yertalert |
They still have 98 viruses? |
| 17:09 |
timotimo |
windows 95 is the best windows |
| 17:09 |
timotimo |
because it has hover 950 |
| 17:10 |
yertalert |
I think XP is the best |
| 17:10 |
* moritz |
likes fvwm best |
| 17:10 |
* moritz |
trolls a bit |
| 17:10 |
yertalert |
It was a huge scam by MS to see just how long millions of people could go without a modern operating system |
| 17:11 |
moritz |
nom: say 1.join.perl |
| 17:11 |
p6eval |
nom a61dbd: OUTPUT«"1"» |
| 17:12 |
leontopod |
I still have win 2k pro sp4, but its ip address is 10.0.0.4 |
| 17:12 |
leontopod |
it's behind a pretty good linux firewall/nat box |
| 17:13 |
yertalert |
lol, linux has to protect windows |
| 17:13 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: c3fb7d6 | moritz++ | src/core/ (3 files): |
| 17:13 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: small X::AdHoc refactor |
| 17:13 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: |
| 17:13 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Now it's finally the way I want it to be. |
| 17:13 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c3fb7d6f04 |
| 17:16 |
fasad |
Is perl6's philosophy "Perl 5 done right!" ? |
| 17:16 |
[Coke] |
b: say 2012-1998 |
| 17:16 |
p6eval |
b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«14» |
| 17:16 |
[Coke] |
b: say 2012-1995 ; # whoops |
| 17:16 |
p6eval |
b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«17» |
| 17:17 |
moritz |
fasad: it's more like "Perl done right!" |
| 17:19 |
TimToady |
righter, or a least righterish |
| 17:20 |
TimToady |
jnthn: probably the same thing that makes -2**64 treat ** as tighter than the - |
| 17:20 |
cognominal_ |
http://maxtaco.github.com/coffee-script/ # pasted by rgs in #perlfr |
| 17:21 |
TimToady |
jnthn: it doesn't look like the reduce rule is doing anything special other than setting the precedence to %list_prefix |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:22 |
TimToady |
perl6: say -2**3 |
| 17:22 |
p6eval |
pugs b927740, rakudo a61dbd, niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«-8» |
| 17:22 |
TimToady |
whew! |
| 17:23 |
cognominal_ |
TimToady do we have a construct similar to the icecoffeescript "await/defer" in Perl 6? |
| 17:24 |
cognominal_ |
…possibly using threads instead. |
| 17:25 |
* fasad |
ubuntu |
| 17:26 |
fasad |
^^ignore that |
| 17:26 |
TimToady |
.oO(ignore ubuntu?) |
| 17:29 |
jnthn |
TimToady: Yeah, thus my confusion. EXPR is called from initializer with preclim of %item_assignment. It calls termish, which will parse the [+] as a prefix, then <term>, which parses the 1. Then back in EXPR we parse an infixish, which gets the , and this then has $inprec le $preclim as true, so it's considered the last TERM |
| 17:30 |
jnthn |
Or so I'd expect it to work, and that's how it's happening in Rakudo. Somehow I'm missing a trick in STD. |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:33 |
jnthn |
I had wondered if it was an effect of the term-forcing that reduce does, but it'd see that this particular case leaves it as a normal prefix. |
| 17:33 |
fasad |
TimToday: :D |
| 17:34 |
jnthn |
*seem |
| 17:39 |
jnthn |
TimToady: Oh. My assumption that STD gets it right because Niecza gets it right may well be wrong. |
| 17:39 |
jnthn |
TimToady: Niecza has a term:reduce and then parses <args> after it. |
| 17:42 |
jnthn |
This is perhaps telling |
| 17:42 |
jnthn |
std: my $x = [+] 1, $y; |
| 17:42 |
p6eval |
std 48335fc: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Variable $y is not predeclared (declarators are tighter than comma, so maybe your 'my' signature needs parens?) at /tmp/P7RKd7vEnl line 1:�------> [32mmy $x = [+] 1, [33m�[31m$y;[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 112m�» |
| 17:42 |
jnthn |
std: my $x = [+] (1, $y); |
| 17:42 |
p6eval |
std 48335fc: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Variable $y is not predeclared at /tmp/qhkDMu3KQE line 1:�------> [32mmy $x = [+] (1, [33m�[31m$y);[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 113m�» |
| 17:43 |
leontopod |
so I installed ubuntu for the very first time about two weeks ago and wouldn't you know it, the new window manager looks like something that runs on a cell phone or pad computer. |
| 17:43 |
jnthn |
This implies (iiuc) that it's marked declend in MEMOS before it sees the $y |
| 17:44 |
jnthn |
So I'm suspecting STD parses this the way Rakudo's stdinit branch does, which would seem to be not what at least the spectests expect, nor what folks will in general. |
| 17:45 |
benabik |
leontopod: Yeah, Unity looks a little odd. Haven't played with it much myself. (I mostly use 10.04 because it's what we have at school (LTS)) |
| 17:45 |
* benabik |
should talk in less parentheticals. |
| 17:45 |
leontopod |
That's the way everything is going: cell phones and pad computers |
| 17:45 |
TimToady |
jnthn: yes, we should probably switch reduce to do the <args> trick |
| 17:46 |
jnthn |
TimToady: OK, I'll do what Niecza does, or something close to that. |
| 17:46 |
TimToady |
and I have confirmed that viv does in fact misparse it |
| 17:46 |
jnthn |
TimToady: Phew. I was going nuts trying to figure out what I'd missed on method EXPR :P |
| 17:46 |
jnthn |
s/on/in |
| 17:47 |
[Coke] |
jnthn: This is the "punch list" of items that need addressing before |
| 17:47 |
[Coke] |
releasing a nom-based distribution. |
| 17:47 |
[Coke] |
Does that need to be replaced with a new goal, or just removed? |
| 17:47 |
[Coke] |
(from NOMMAP.*) |
| 17:47 |
jnthn |
[Coke]: Oh, I planned to fold nommap into ROADMAP (if any of it isn't already) |
| 17:49 |
jnthn |
heh, yeah, it also claims that the Order enumeration is missing, which it ain't. |
| 17:49 |
benabik |
[Coke]: your nick makes me keep wondering what infix:<Coke> does. :-D |
| 17:50 |
jnthn |
[Coke]: Will take care of it this evening. |
| 17:51 |
leontopod |
Ritalin/Cocaine, Amphetamine/Adderall |
| 17:51 |
masak |
au! \o/ |
| 17:51 |
[Coke] |
jnthn++ |
| 17:52 |
TimToady |
jnthn: though it does point out a subtle flaw in EXPR that could perhaps be corrected by noticing that we've passed a precedence loosener and fixing the limiter |
| 17:53 |
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| 17:54 |
masak |
au: we're a bunch of people who want to kick-start the development of Pugs again, and bring it up to spec. |
| 17:55 |
masak |
last I counted: [Coke], ingy, and me. |
| 17:55 |
leontopod |
hi masak =) |
| 17:56 |
masak |
hi Teratogen =) |
| 17:56 |
leontopod |
oh, right |
| 17:56 |
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| 17:56 |
masak |
both nicks are excellent, by the way. |
| 17:56 |
Teratogen |
well, the way I got stuck with Teratogen was |
| 17:56 |
Teratogen |
this was back on efnet in 1994 |
| 17:57 |
Teratogen |
I got invited by Plutonium (an irc operator at the time) to be an op on #sex |
| 17:57 |
Teratogen |
great |
| 17:57 |
masak |
"leontopod" puts me in mind of dandelions. |
| 17:57 |
Teratogen |
but I was still trying to figure out a nickname because I was so new to irc |
| 17:57 |
masak |
"Teratogen" sounds like something that generates Terats. |
| 17:57 |
araujo |
masak, I could help with testing too ... |
| 17:57 |
araujo |
:P |
| 17:57 |
Teratogen |
I saw the word "teratogen" in a novel, I think Jurassic Park |
| 17:57 |
Teratogen |
so I started using it |
| 17:58 |
Teratogen |
and every time I changed my nick to something else pixiedust would holler at me. |
| 17:58 |
masak |
araujo: testing? please elaborate. :) |
| 17:58 |
Teratogen |
so I ended up using Teratogen more and more. |
| 17:58 |
Teratogen |
And now I am kind of stuck with it. |
| 17:58 |
araujo |
masak, well, with pugs .. at least initially |
| 17:58 |
masak |
araujo: you're testing Pugs? |
| 17:58 |
Teratogen |
I am still banned on efnet #perl |
| 17:58 |
Teratogen |
it's been a decade, and the ban is still on. |
| 17:58 |
Teratogen |
*giggle* |
| 17:59 |
araujo |
masak, not now .... but i have been checking a bit its code |
| 18:00 |
[Coke] |
masak: should we install haskell globally on feather? |
| 18:01 |
TimToady |
.oO( #perl6, the Halfway House of banned personages attempting to re-enter society... :) |
| 18:02 |
Teratogen |
I remember the apostrophic jihad. |
| 18:02 |
jnthn |
TimToady: (fixing the limiter) that's kinda what I expected to find STD's EXPR doing :) |
| 18:03 |
Teratogen |
That is where Tom Christiansen attacked anybody who said dont instead of don't |
| 18:03 |
Teratogen |
im instead of i'm |
| 18:03 |
Teratogen |
etc |
| 18:03 |
[Coke] |
etc. ;) |
| 18:03 |
Teratogen |
well, yeah, etc. |
| 18:03 |
Teratogen |
baw |
| 18:04 |
TimToady |
Well, Tom is a prescriptivist at heart, but he's mellowed somewhat of late, at least some of the time... |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:08 |
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| 18:08 |
not_gerd |
hello again, #perl6 |
| 18:18 |
masak |
prescriptivism should be outlawed. |
| 18:18 |
masak |
[Coke]: yes, I think we should. |
| 18:18 |
TimToady |
that would be proscriptivism, not prescriptivism :) |
| 18:19 |
cognominal_ |
masak, try harder for a self-contradiction: "perscriptivism must be outlawed" |
| 18:19 |
TimToady |
though I freely admit that the practitioners of each are deeply intertwingled :) |
| 18:25 |
[Coke] |
moritz: hey, can you install the tools we need to build pugs.hs on feather? ;) |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:30 |
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| 18:32 |
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| 18:32 |
Su-Shee |
today, I had a horrible experience. please hurry with perl 6. I never ever want to experience working with java and eclipse again. |
| 18:34 |
[Coke] |
su-shee; I do that. and also cold fusion! |
| 18:34 |
Su-Shee |
[Coke]: I'm honestly lost for words after that experience. |
| 18:35 |
[Coke] |
as with many things, it gets easier with practice. |
| 18:36 |
[Coke] |
I like the eclipse bit, actually, as I can afford not to remember all the java. |
| 18:36 |
Teratogen |
Will Java truly ever be completely FOSS? |
| 18:36 |
Teratogen |
I have a funny feeling that the guy who runs Oracle is going to keep that from happening. |
| 18:37 |
Su-Shee |
[Coke]: I simply avoided Java until today and then decided to give Android app development a try.. |
| 18:37 |
Teratogen |
Su-Shee, yes, I want to develop android apps in Perl please! |
| 18:38 |
Su-Shee |
I think I try again when JS/HTML5 is the main stack.. |
| 18:39 |
not_gerd |
Teratogen: possibly, you can do that right now - there's Mono for Android... |
| 18:41 |
not_gerd |
Rakudo on Android is probably not going to happen any time soon, though - the Parrot build system can't really deal with cross-compilation |
| 18:44 |
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| 19:01 |
|
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| 19:05 |
masak |
Su-Shee: the Android stack on Eclipse isn't so bad. it's based on auto-generation of a bunch of stuff, but considering that, it works quite well. |
| 19:07 |
colomon |
I keep on fantasizing about setting sorear++ up with a Android machine and Mono for Android... |
| 19:08 |
colomon |
wonder if that could fit into Google Summer of Code.... |
| 19:09 |
moritz |
[Coke]: I'm updating GHC on feather, in the hope that it'll make compiling pugs.hs easier |
| 19:10 |
masak |
moritz++ |
| 19:18 |
[Coke] |
moritz++ |
| 19:33 |
sorear |
good * #perl6 |
| 19:34 |
masak |
sorear! \o/ |
| 19:39 |
|
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| 19:45 |
moritz |
$ ghc -v |
| 19:45 |
moritz |
Glasgow Haskell Compiler, Version 7.4.1, stage 2 booted by GHC version 7.0.4 |
| 19:45 |
moritz |
that's on feather |
| 19:48 |
[Coke] |
moritz: looks like Pugs.hs also needs cabal for hacking. |
| 19:49 |
[Coke] |
also, thank you. ;) |
| 19:49 |
moritz |
[Coke]: yes, I'm now following the dependencies |
| 19:50 |
moritz |
cabal-install installed. |
| 19:52 |
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| 19:52 |
[Coke] |
moritz++ |
| 19:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/stdinit: 1d2af87 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files): |
| 19:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/stdinit: Switch reduction meta-op parsing to be a term, which resolves the last couple of regressions caused by switching to using <initializer>. |
| 19:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/stdinit: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1d2af87c7a |
| 19:52 |
jnthn |
moritz: Think I've got stdinit fixed up now. :) |
| 19:52 |
moritz |
\o/ |
| 19:52 |
jnthn |
Wanna do a test run yourself, or shall I just go ahead and merge it? |
| 19:53 |
moritz |
I'm spectesting origin/stdinit merged into nom right nwo |
| 19:53 |
jnthn |
moritz: With the above patch? |
| 19:53 |
moritz |
jnthn: yes |
| 19:53 |
jnthn |
moritz++ |
| 19:54 |
jnthn |
oh noes, spam in the RT queue! |
| 19:55 |
* jnthn |
suspects meeting thousands of singles would take a LOT of time |
| 19:55 |
moritz |
unless you find a way to massively parallelize |
| 19:56 |
|
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| 19:57 |
jnthn |
nom: say 645 - 80 |
| 19:57 |
p6eval |
nom c3fb7d: OUTPUT«565» |
| 19:58 |
dalek |
roast: da13ad1 | moritz++ | S04-statements/try.t: |
| 19:58 |
dalek |
roast: tests for &die, try and X::AdHoc |
| 19:58 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/da13ad1b1f |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:04 |
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ksi joined #perl6 |
| 20:06 |
moritz |
which pugs repo is the most recent one? |
| 20:06 |
|
buubot_backup joined #perl6 |
| 20:07 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: c9d2827 | jnthn++ | / (5 files): |
| 20:07 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom |
| 20:07 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9d28276b2 |
| 20:07 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: 525ec75 | jnthn++ | / (2 files): |
| 20:07 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Remove NOMMAP; update ROADMAP. |
| 20:07 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/525ec75917 |
| 20:09 |
jnthn |
oops, I accidentally the merge commit |
| 20:09 |
moritz |
jnthn: all tests pass on stdinit + nom, plus a bunch of passing TODOs |
| 20:09 |
|
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| 20:09 |
moritz |
well, a few exception tests fail, but I'm to blame for that |
| 20:09 |
moritz |
(and i want to fix them over the weekend) |
| 20:09 |
|
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| 20:10 |
jnthn |
moritz: yay |
| 20:10 |
jnthn |
moritz: OK, please do go ahead and push the merge :) |
| 20:12 |
|
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| 20:12 |
moritz |
done. |
| 20:12 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: a1180bc | moritz++ | src/ (3 files): |
| 20:12 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Merge remote branch 'origin/stdinit' into nom |
| 20:12 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a1180bccf7 |
| 20:13 |
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| 20:16 |
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| 20:17 |
cognominal_ |
moritz, the goal is to make rakudo grammar closer to std resulting in better error messages? |
| 20:19 |
|
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| 20:23 |
masak |
jnthn: yeech, a merge commit! don't you check the log before you push? :P |
| 20:25 |
moritz |
cognominal_: not only that, but it also makes some action methods easier, and other stuff possible that wasn't possible before |
| 20:25 |
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| 20:26 |
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| 20:26 |
cognominal_ |
moritz++ |
| 20:26 |
PerlJam |
moritz++ following the Perl tradition of making the impossible possible :) |
| 20:32 |
[Coke] |
http://blog.chromium.org/2012/02/future-of-javascript-take-peek-today.html updates to JS that may sound familiar. |
| 20:33 |
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| 20:34 |
moritz |
PerlJam: jnthn++ did most of the work, I just merged the branch |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
Just been through RT a bit and shuffled some tests over to testneeded thanks for moritz++'s $*HAS_SELF work :) |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
er |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
some tickets |
| 20:38 |
sorear |
is stdinit just the initializer change? |
| 20:39 |
jnthn |
sorear: yeah |
| 20:39 |
jnthn |
sorear: Well, and $*HAS_SELF |
| 20:39 |
jnthn |
sorear: I didn't do defterm yet. |
| 20:39 |
sorear |
moritz: website and blog are instances of the same problem - I don't understand the audience well enough to write for it |
| 20:40 |
[Coke] |
I would love to read posts for niecza like those that jonathan does on 6guts. |
| 20:40 |
dalek |
roast: dfc580a | moritz++ | S0 (2 files): |
| 20:40 |
dalek |
roast: rakudo unfudges |
| 20:40 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/dfc580aa2d |
| 20:40 |
TimToady |
even Moses needed Aaron... |
| 20:42 |
masak |
sorear: I read the Niecza release announcements with great interest every time. |
| 20:42 |
* PerlJam |
too |
| 20:42 |
moritz |
sorear: one solution is to just write stuff for an imaginary audience, and then listen to feedback |
| 20:42 |
masak |
sorear: but don't let people here bully you into taking valuable time off from coding to blog for someone else's sake. :) |
| 20:42 |
PerlJam |
though I find I don't play with niecza regularly like I do with Rakudo |
| 20:42 |
masak |
I'm starting to. |
| 20:43 |
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| 20:43 |
masak |
Rakudo is still my main man, but Niecza is definitely getting there (in terms of how much I use it). |
| 20:43 |
moritz |
sorear: also the announcements talk about "what", but I'd love to read more about the "why"s (why is $feature hard to implement right now, ...) |
| 20:43 |
PerlJam |
It is always a a little bit of happiness when I write something that both Rakduo and Niecza can run :) |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
OK so... |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
nom: my $foo = 42; ($foo, 'stuff')[0] = 24; say $foo; |
| 20:44 |
p6eval |
nom a1180b: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value» |
| 20:44 |
moritz |
... and that happens quite often these days, as long as I don't use "handles" :-) |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
RT#105368 complains about this. |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
I just fixed it and discovered we have the following test |
| 20:44 |
moritz |
jnthn: (unrelated) stdinit closed 3 different bug reports about [+] parsing :-) |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
my $x = 44; |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
$rt66304 = ( 11, $x, 22 ); |
| 20:44 |
jnthn |
dies_ok { $rt66304[1] = 'rw' }, 'variable List element is immutable'; |
| 20:45 |
jnthn |
moritz: oh, nice! :D |
| 20:45 |
jnthn |
Both of these tests can't be right :) Which way is it? :) |
| 20:49 |
masak |
jnthn: mutable. |
| 20:49 |
* PerlJam |
wishes ack had a "paragraph mode" sometimes |
| 20:49 |
masak |
otherwise, how would cool things like @array[0, 1, 2].reverse work? :) |
| 20:49 |
jnthn |
masak: Good good. |
| 20:49 |
alester |
alas |
| 20:50 |
jnthn |
std: [xx] 1,2 |
| 20:50 |
p6eval |
std 48335fc: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m» |
| 20:50 |
benabik |
Maybe regex based context? |
| 20:51 |
benabik |
-C /^$/,/^$/ (Backwards until empty line, forwards until empty line) |
| 20:52 |
PerlJam |
benabik: that's ... interesting. |
| 20:52 |
benabik |
PerlJam: I wasn't terribly serious. But, yes, interesting. |
| 20:52 |
benabik |
Or, perhaps, "interesting' |
| 20:53 |
sorear |
we need a good extraction tool |
| 20:53 |
moritz |
sometimes I want a tool that searches only code examples in POD |
| 20:54 |
moritz |
so either within C<...> or code blocks |
| 20:54 |
moritz |
because grepping for things like 'has' or 'does' is simply unproductive otherwise |
| 20:54 |
PerlJam |
yep |
| 20:55 |
PerlJam |
that would be the next "killer feature" for ack even :) |
| 20:56 |
sorear |
PerlJam: ack -f | xargs perl -00ne 'print if /.../' might DWYW |
| 21:00 |
dalek |
std: 52f3895 | larry++ | STD.pm6: |
| 21:00 |
dalek |
std: turn reduceop parsing into a term |
| 21:00 |
dalek |
std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/52f38955e1 |
| 21:02 |
TimToady |
niecza: constant @foo = 1,@foo; say @foo[1] |
| 21:02 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«» |
| 21:02 |
TimToady |
sorear: any clue how far that is from working? |
| 21:04 |
sorear |
if by 'working' you mean 'carping with a decent error message', that could probably be done today |
| 21:05 |
* sorear |
wonders if there is a way to configure the regex(?) used by git grep -W |
| 21:06 |
TimToady |
no, I mean working working, and in doing what I mean :) |
| 21:06 |
TimToady |
*as in |
| 21:07 |
sorear |
that would require considerable thinking. :) |
| 21:07 |
sorear |
making , thunk the RHS is not reasonable, but maybe something can be done at the level of constant @foo = ... |
| 21:08 |
TimToady |
it's just a lazy list; we have to persuade @foo to return an appropriately lazy iterator |
| 21:09 |
[Coke] |
TimToady: what do you expect that to print? |
| 21:09 |
TimToady |
1 |
| 21:09 |
TimToady |
it's the boiled down version of the hamming recursion |
| 21:09 |
[Coke] |
what is @foo at that point? 1,1 ? |
| 21:09 |
[Coke] |
or 1,1,1... ? or? |
| 21:10 |
TimToady |
constant @hamming = 1, dedup (@hamming X* 2) M (@hamming X* 3) M (@hamming X* 5); |
| 21:11 |
TimToady |
it's a fancy way of saying 1 xx * via recursive definition |
| 21:11 |
TimToady |
Haskellers do this sort of thing all the time |
| 21:13 |
TimToady |
and Python includes hamming in their tests of whether iterators are correctly defined, so this bears thinking about |
| 21:14 |
PerlJam |
... and if *those* languages can do it, surely Perl 6 should be able to ;) |
| 21:15 |
TimToady |
we should at least understand why we can't, if not, and how best to work around it |
| 21:16 |
TimToady |
if it actually requires strict laziness, for example, we might just define 'constant' that way |
| 21:16 |
Teratogen |
Haskell is pretty much an academic language, isn't it? |
| 21:16 |
PerlJam |
Teratogen: no |
| 21:16 |
TimToady |
among other things |
| 21:16 |
Teratogen |
I don't hear about avionics or web sites being written in Haskell, so... |
| 21:17 |
Teratogen |
*shrug* |
| 21:17 |
PerlJam |
Teratogen: GHC has made Haskell more than just "academic" |
| 21:17 |
TimToady |
and I think we already had the avionics discussion |
| 21:18 |
Teratogen |
The still use a multithreaded version of Algol called "Jovial" in avionics software. |
| 21:18 |
Teratogen |
That is an OLD language. |
| 21:18 |
Teratogen |
From, like, 1963. |
| 21:18 |
PerlJam |
before the dawn of time! |
| 21:18 |
TimToady |
as I said, we already had this precise discussion; let's not have it again |
| 21:18 |
Teratogen |
Ok =( |
| 21:18 |
Teratogen |
Sorry, I am bipolar and forgetful . =( |
| 21:19 |
TimToady |
more like OCD, but we'll let it pass :) |
| 21:19 |
* PerlJam |
makes a note to try that trick on Teratogen in the future ;) |
| 21:19 |
Teratogen |
No! |
| 21:19 |
Teratogen |
I am already on four medications! |
| 21:19 |
PerlJam |
Teratogen: don't you remember? We talked about this just the other day! |
| 21:20 |
PerlJam |
:-) |
| 21:20 |
Teratogen |
Stop it. |
| 21:20 |
TimToady |
PerlJam: don't torment the Teratogen |
| 21:20 |
TimToady |
it's the best Teratogen we've got, so we'll have to be nice to it |
| 21:20 |
PerlJam |
point taken. |
| 21:22 |
TimToady |
anyway, rakudo can't seem to do it either, quite |
| 21:23 |
TimToady |
nom: my @foo; @foo.plan: 1, @foo; say @foo[1] |
| 21:23 |
p6eval |
nom a1180b: OUTPUT«Method 'plan' not found for invocant of class 'Array'» |
| 21:23 |
TimToady |
hmm, thought we had that, oh well |
| 21:23 |
flussence |
pugs: my @foo = 1,@foo; say @foo[1]; |
| 21:24 |
p6eval |
pugs b927740: OUTPUT«» |
| 21:24 |
masak |
Teratogen: if you forget things from day to day, I understand much better why you've been asking us to "just get Perl 6 out the door" so often. |
| 21:24 |
* masak |
hugs Teratogen |
| 21:24 |
flussence |
huh, usually pugs surprises with hard code like that |
| 21:24 |
Teratogen |
I have some short term memory problems, probably from the medications I am taking |
| 21:24 |
TimToady |
that's an eager assignment |
| 21:24 |
Teratogen |
My long term memory is ok |
| 21:24 |
PerlJam |
flussence: it did surprise you, just not the way you thought it would :) |
| 21:25 |
masak |
Teratogen: where does short term memory end and long term memory start for you? |
| 21:25 |
TimToady |
pugs: my @foo := (1,@foo); say @foo[1] |
| 21:25 |
flussence |
pugs: constant @foo = 1,@foo; say @foo[1]; # I don't think it supports constants... |
| 21:25 |
p6eval |
pugs b927740: OUTPUT«» |
| 21:25 |
p6eval |
pugs b927740: OUTPUT«pugs: *** Undeclared variable: ("@foo",MkPad (padToList []),[PCompiling {pc_pad = MkMPad {mp_id = 140456300146673, mp_pad = <ref:0x7fbe87a55461>}}]) at /tmp/izJFdXmd50 line 1, column 19-23» |
| 21:25 |
Teratogen |
masak, hard to tell |
| 21:25 |
PerlJam |
Teratogen: I tend to have problems with medium-term memory myself |
| 21:25 |
Teratogen |
I've made modifications to my jeep, and now thinking about it I don't know how I made them. |
| 21:26 |
TimToady |
pugs: constant @foo = (1,@foo); say @foo[1] |
| 21:26 |
p6eval |
pugs b927740: OUTPUT«pugs: *** Undeclared variable: ("@foo",MkPad (padToList []),[PCompiling {pc_pad = MkMPad {mp_id = 140704615526385, mp_pad = <ref:0x7ff8586e7d99>}}]) at /tmp/pjf9djXthZ line 1, column 17-25» |
| 21:26 |
Teratogen |
Like "What the hell was I thinking when I did that?" |
| 21:26 |
Teratogen |
Same with computer programs. |
| 21:26 |
PerlJam |
(where "medium term" is in the 1 hour - 1 day range) |
| 21:26 |
Teratogen |
I look at some old stuff that I wrote and I can't figure out what the fuck I was doing. |
| 21:26 |
flussence |
that's normal |
| 21:26 |
PerlJam |
I can remember things for about an hour or 2, but then I forget them until a day or so later |
| 21:27 |
|
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| 21:30 |
TimToady |
niecza: constant @foo = gather { take 1; take @foo }; say @foo[1] |
| 21:30 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«(timeout)» |
| 21:30 |
TimToady |
kaboom! |
| 21:30 |
|
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| 21:32 |
TimToady |
niecza: my @foo := gather { take 1; take @foo }; say @foo[1] |
| 21:32 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«(timeout)» |
| 21:32 |
TimToady |
take seems to be eagerizing the return of @foo somehow |
| 21:33 |
|
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| 21:33 |
TimToady |
niecza: my @foo := gather { take 1; take $_ for @foo }; say @foo[1] |
| 21:33 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«1» |
| 21:33 |
TimToady |
\o/ |
| 21:34 |
TimToady |
niecza: my @foo := gather { take 1; take $_ for @foo }; say @foo[582] |
| 21:34 |
p6eval |
niecza v14-34-g1b3d1e8: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Circular data dependency in list iteration, or last fetch threw exception at /tmp/j494A5xugU line 1 (ANON @ 4)  at <unknown> line 0 (KERNEL dogather @ 1)  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2308 (GatherIterator.reify @ … |
| 21:34 |
TimToady |
aww |
| 21:34 |
masak |
PerlJam: I used to meditate quite a bit, and I remember medium-term memory actually getting a boost from that. some days I got a little snapshot replay of things I'd forgotten during the day. |
| 21:35 |
PerlJam |
masak: define "meditate". Did you have something to help you meditate? |
| 21:36 |
Su-Shee |
PerlJam: "a cushion"? ;) |
| 21:36 |
masak |
PerlJam: no. |
| 21:36 |
TimToady |
meditation is what happens when you stop doing everything else :) |
| 21:36 |
PerlJam |
TimToady: I call that "sleep" :) |
| 21:36 |
TimToady |
you have to stop that too |
| 21:36 |
masak |
& |
| 21:37 |
PerlJam |
This guy http://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work.html talks about meditation as one of the things that leads to happiness. |
| 21:37 |
TimToady |
if I'm not careful, I spend all day meditating by default :) |
| 21:37 |
TimToady |
I think it just comes down to "Don't be so busy thinking that you can't think." |
| 21:38 |
Su-Shee |
PerlJam: if you prefer neuro-science - medidation is rather well researched by now. |
| 21:38 |
PerlJam |
I can't get my brain to stop talking to itself some times. |
| 21:38 |
Su-Shee |
PerlJam: it's basically a certain physical training of your brain to make it pulse in certain waves. |
| 21:39 |
Su-Shee |
PerlJam: that would be the "training" part.. |
| 21:39 |
TimToady |
nom: my @foo := gather { take 1; take $_ for @foo }; say @foo[582] |
| 21:39 |
p6eval |
nom a1180b: OUTPUT«splice() not implemented in class 'Mu'» |
| 21:39 |
TimToady |
whee! |
| 21:40 |
Su-Shee |
PerlJam: if you compare all kinds of meditation schools, you'll notice that they all teach several aspects of focus.. "focus on something" "blend out everything" etc. |
| 21:42 |
TimToady |
that's for the ADHD folk; those of us on the autistic spectrum can already shut everything out because it's our only alternative to paying attention to everything |
| 21:43 |
TimToady |
however, I think I'll meditate on the insides of my eyelids for now |
| 21:43 |
TimToady |
zzz & |
| 21:47 |
|
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| 21:48 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: 9070eeb | jnthn++ | src/core/Parcel.pm: |
| 21:48 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Don't strip elements of their containers when indexing into a Parcel. Fixes RT#105368. |
| 21:48 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9070eeb5d8 |
| 21:48 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: 2cfeacd | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files): |
| 21:48 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Thunk the LHS of the xx operator, as current spec requires. |
| 21:48 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2cfeacd87c |
| 21:49 |
dalek |
roast: 4f47254 | jnthn++ | S02-types/lists.t: |
| 21:49 |
dalek |
roast: Remove a couple of wrong tests, some corrections and some unfudges for Rakudo. |
| 21:49 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4f47254bfb |
| 21:50 |
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| 21:57 |
|
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| 21:57 |
pmurias |
hi |
| 21:57 |
pmurias |
anyone else having trouble with git pull'ing niecza from github? |
| 21:58 |
|
rir left #perl6 |
| 22:13 |
PerlJam |
pmurias: nope. just did it fine |
| 22:16 |
pmurias |
works again |
| 22:16 |
dalek |
niecza: 3b576df | (Paweł Murias)++ | p5test/p5test.pl: |
| 22:16 |
dalek |
niecza: Fix typo in p5test. |
| 22:16 |
dalek |
niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3b576dffc6 |
| 22:19 |
|
alvis left #perl6 |
| 22:19 |
benabik |
github is suffering from a DDoS. There are sporadic interruptions in service. |
| 22:25 |
jnthn |
std: sub foo() { state $z++; $z } |
| 22:25 |
p6eval |
std 52f3895: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 110m» |
| 22:26 |
pmurias |
why would anyone DDoS github? |
| 22:28 |
benabik |
No idea, but that's what they say is happening: https://github.com/blog/1036-about-this-week-s-availability |
| 22:28 |
flussence |
one of the comments on their blog explained it nicely |
| 22:28 |
flussence |
"cvs fans" |
| 22:30 |
flussence |
.oO( but a true cvs fan would use a non-distributed DoS, and they'd have to log in first... ) |
| 22:30 |
jnthn |
CVS has...fans? :) |
| 22:31 |
timotimo |
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3619or/ |
| 22:34 |
|
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| 22:42 |
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benabik joined #perl6 |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
roast: 5df18e5 | jnthn++ | S12-attributes/instance.t: |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
roast: Fudge updates for S12-attributes/instance.t. |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5df18e55cf |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: f05a588 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files): |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Fix handling of self scoping in attribute initializers. |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f05a588212 |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: 6f3d34b | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data: |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Turn on S12-attributes/defaults.t. |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6f3d34b280 |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: 9f9b446 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm: |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: Enable use of :state/:constant/:our declarations in regexes. |
| 22:52 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9f9b446133 |
| 23:23 |
sorear |
benabik: I wonder if this is related to the freenode DoS |
| 23:34 |
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| 23:35 |
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| 23:36 |
jnthn |
rest & |
| 23:40 |
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| 23:43 |
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| 23:47 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: a39d86a | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog: |
| 23:47 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: More ChangeLog updates. |
| 23:47 |
dalek |
rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a39d86a6c7 |
| 23:50 |
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| 23:59 |
masak |
'night, #perl6 |
