Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-03-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:20 Vespakoen_ joined #perl6
00:38 wolfman2000 joined #perl6
01:17 scott___ joined #perl6
01:19 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
01:38 colomon joined #perl6
01:40 overrosy joined #perl6
01:56 mmalx joined #perl6
02:40 rsimoes joined #perl6
02:59 HarryS joined #perl6
03:22 jlaire masak: the Knuth code you link to finds _strong_ addition chains, which have an extra requirement: you can only add a+b if |a-b| is also in the chain. This changes the optimal result for n=23: the regular addition chain [1 2 4 5 9 18 23] is not strong because 23=18+5 but 18-5=13 is not there. An optimal strong chain is one longer, [1 2 3 5 8 13 18 23]
03:22 jlaire however, Knuth also has some code for finding minimal addition chains at http://www-cs-faculty.stanf​ord.edu/~uno/programs.html :)
03:29 jlaire n=83 is the first case where a strong addition chain requires 2 extra numbers: [1 2 4 8 16 17 33 66 83] vs. [1 2 3 5 8 13 21 26 31 57 83]
03:29 preflex_ joined #perl6
03:33 benabik joined #perl6
03:59 orafu joined #perl6
04:23 leprevost joined #perl6
04:29 lestrrat joined #perl6
04:34 Transformer joined #perl6
04:36 woosley joined #perl6
04:39 woosley joined #perl6
04:53 leprevost joined #perl6
05:07 jaldhar joined #perl6
05:12 sorear good * #perl6
05:24 kaleem joined #perl6
05:32 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
05:58 NamelessTee joined #perl6
06:17 awwaiid joined #perl6
06:49 wtw joined #perl6
06:53 Trashlord joined #perl6
06:54 takesako joined #perl6
07:45 TimToady that's the first time I've ever used a hacksaw on a computer, I believe
07:46 sorear hi TimToady
07:47 TimToady we just replaced quietfanatics broken display on his laptop; the new one was really for a different computer, but we made it work with a hacksaw :)
07:48 TimToady (had two metal mounting brackets on top that wouldn't fit, but electronically it was compatible)
07:48 sorear I've used one of these on a computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibbler does that count?
07:48 TimToady we coulda used one of those, I expect
07:49 TimToady and with less chance of putting metal shavings where they don't belong
07:53 mj41 joined #perl6
07:59 preflex_ joined #perl6
08:31 moritz r: our multi foo() { }
08:31 p6eval rakudo b4caaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use 'our' with individual multi candidates. Please declare an our-scoped proto instead␤at /tmp/wu7LUbqx88:1␤»
08:31 * moritz should put that into changelog
08:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 8c7747b | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
08:33 dalek rakudo/nom: [ChangeLog]: note that scoped multis now die
08:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8c7747b008
08:47 bacek joined #perl6
08:52 woosley left #perl6
08:54 buubot_backup joined #perl6
09:11 ayad02 joined #perl6
09:11 ayad02 hello team
09:14 ayad02 can you help me to transform this command in a code perl => #ssh 192.168.0.02 rsync -averb '/var/www/html/devaxecam2011/images/' '/var/www/html/devaxecam2011/videos/' /home/TMP_ARCHIVES/DEVAXECAM/dev.`date +%d%m%y.%H%M`
09:15 moritz hello ayad02
09:15 moritz this channel is for Perl 6 usage and development
09:15 moritz are you sure you want to do it in Perl 6?
09:21 ayad02 no i m no sure
09:21 moritz then you are probably in the wrong channel.
09:22 moritz of course you can do it in Perl 6, but the easiest way would be to spawn a shell that executes the command you already pasted
09:22 moritz (as will be the case with perl 5)
09:53 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 196 commits to perl6.org/archive_dir by ranguard
09:59 ranguard moritz (or anyone) please review https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/tree/archive_dir - this is just migrating the content, I've tried to do it with git history but not done this before so a sanity check would be appreciated :)
09:59 * ranguard heads off for a couple of hours so no rush :)
09:59 moritz ranguard: will do
09:59 ranguard thanks
09:59 moritz ranguard: thanks for doing all that work in the first place
10:05 Ulti was that big download button on perl6.org there before?
10:07 preflex_ joined #perl6
10:07 moritz yep, it's from pre-niecza times
10:07 moritz feel free to replace it with something that makes sense these days :-)
10:30 lestrrat joined #perl6
10:34 grondilu joined #perl6
10:35 grondilu perl6: sub foo { gather { take 1; say "not so lazy"; take 2 } }; my @a <== foo;
10:35 p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @a is declared but not used at /tmp/xWFXIGB2yl line 1:â�¤------> [32mke 1; say "not so lazy"; take 2 } }; my [33mâ��[31m@a <== foo;[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Feed ops NYIâ�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1362 (die @ 3)…
10:35 p6eval ..pugs b927740, rakudo 8c7747: OUTPUT«not so lazy␤»
10:36 grondilu isn't a gather-take structure supposed to be lazy?
10:37 moritz it is
10:37 moritz perl6: sub foo { gather { take 1; say "not so lazy"; take 2 } }; my @a := foo;
10:37 p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @a is declared but not used at /tmp/8FpLiiVtVC line 1:â�¤------> [32mke 1; say "not so lazy"; take 2 } }; my [33mâ��[31m@a := foo;[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
10:37 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«not so lazy␤»
10:37 p6eval ..rakudo 8c7747:  ( no output )
10:37 moritz perl6: sub foo { gather { take 1; say "not so lazy"; take 2 } }; my @a := foo; say @a[0]
10:37 p6eval rakudo 8c7747, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:37 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«not so lazy␤1␤»
10:38 moritz it seems that <== isn't lazy in rakudo and pugs; dunno if it should be
10:38 grondilu I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be stricly lazy
10:39 moritz that would surprise me
10:40 grondilu anyway I hadn't thought of using ':='.  I'll do that.
10:41 moritz S06 talks about each part of the feed chain being in its own thread
10:41 moritz which doesn't make any sense for strictly lazy evaluation
10:44 moritz woah, S06 has a lot to say about feeds
10:45 moritz and much of that is rather vague (in terms of the APIs used behind the scenes to make the stuff happen in the way the spec wants it to happen)
10:50 masak antenoon, #perl6.
10:52 colomon o\
10:52 moritz good am, ma
10:52 moritz perl6: say so 'am' ~~ /<*masak>/
10:52 p6eval rakudo 8c7747: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at line 1, near "*masak>/"␤»
10:52 p6eval ..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Action method assertion:sym<*> not yet implemented at /tmp/h91Opm_1WZ line 1:â�¤------> [32msay so 'am' ~~ /<*masak[33mâ��[31m>/[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method oplift in class Anyâ�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/s…
10:52 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&so"␤    at /tmp/GIL9OZsI_D line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
10:54 moritz I figured that it might not be too hard to implement after all, once LTM is in place for all stuff (and not just protos)
10:54 moritz because it really just marks als DFA or NFA as accepting
10:54 moritz and LTM takes care that you get as much as possible
10:55 masak jlaire: aye.
10:55 masak er, moritz: aye.
10:55 masak jlaire: thanks for the Knuth link correction -- 'tis fixed now.
11:05 moritz phenny: tell ranguard just reviewed the archive_dir branch of archive_dir. Seems to be fine, everything interesting is there (including history)
11:05 phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when ranguard is around.
11:07 moritz phenny: tell ranguard I may move that stuff to a different repository eventually, but I'm not sure yet. Please let me know if you want any help setting up redirects or so
11:07 phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when ranguard is around.
11:07 moritz oh, and ranguard++
11:13 ranguard thanks moritz - I'll tidy a bit and then merge over the w/e
11:13 phenny ranguard: 11:05Z <moritz> tell ranguard just reviewed the archive_dir branch of archive_dir. Seems to be fine, everything interesting is there (including history)
11:13 phenny ranguard: 11:07Z <moritz> tell ranguard I may move that stuff to a different repository eventually, but I'm not sure yet. Please let me know if you want any help setting up redirects or so
11:14 ranguard you can then do what you like with it from there, I'll add the redirects from dev.perl.org/perl6/ once this is live
11:21 moritz masak: just saw a nice autopun on #perlde:   somenick-- # for spreading a negative base mood
11:26 masak :)
11:30 * flussence wonders how a negative-base number system would work
11:31 moritz with great care :-)
11:31 masak flussence: nothing inherently contradictory in that.
11:32 moritz except that 10_{-10} > 20_{-10), but 10_{-10} < 11_{-10}
11:32 flussence I guess the sign of a number would be <- +>[$length % 2]
11:32 flussence or something like that
11:33 moritz hey, it's 2012-04-01 soon :-)
11:33 masak flussence: let's say you want to express 8 in base -3. well, 8 == 1 * (-3) ** 2 + 1 * (-3) ** 1 + 2 * (-3) ** 0 == :-3<112>
11:33 masak the calculation is done just like with positive number bases.
11:34 moritz is that a uniq representation?
11:34 moritz erm, is that representation uniq?
11:34 masak I think so.
11:34 moritz funny things you encounter on #perl6 :-)
11:34 masak though it isn't very lexicographically sane.
11:36 masak 0, 1, 2, 120, 121, 122, 110, 111, 112, 100, 101, 102...
11:37 masak hm, it seems uniq up to negative signs, or something like that. 3 can be written both as 120 and as -10.
11:39 moritz well, let's say it has it's own (in)sanity :-)
11:40 masak that seems to capture it, yes.
11:46 lestrrat joined #perl6
11:46 NamelessTee joined #perl6
11:48 icwiener joined #perl6
11:51 flussence I'm reminded of balanced ternary, which has slightly more practical use :)
11:51 icwiener Hello.
11:52 icwiener Is there a user channel somewhere or is the mailing list the place for that?
11:52 masak icwiener: perl6-users, or here.
11:52 masak we're very fine with taking user questions here on #perl6.
11:52 masak flussence: have you seen the 2i-base number system?
11:52 icwiener Oh, that's cool. :)
11:53 masak flussence: any complex integer (aka "Gaussian integer") can be written as a normal integer.
11:53 masak and with just the digits 0..3, at that!
11:54 masak no minus signs required.
11:55 icwiener Haha, happy as I was about being allowed to ask questions here, I found the answer by accident. :D
11:55 icwiener .. I think.
11:55 icwiener Will try it.
11:55 masak ask the question anyway. maybe we know a better answer :P
11:59 icwiener I was parsing json with JSON::Tiny and got the error message "no ICU lib loaded ...". So I searched a bit and found the hint to install libicu ... but it was installed here. Then I came here and asked to ask (*coughs*). Then I found the additional hint to rebuild rakudo after installing libice. So I figured it must be the dev files that are needed so I now installed libicu-dev and rakudo is currently rebuilding. Let's see if it works. :)
12:02 masak sounds about right.
12:02 masak I think it's Parrot that needs a rebuild after libicu-dev is installed. but rebuilding Rakudo might take care of that.
12:03 * [Coke] yawns and drinks some narsty coffee.
12:03 icwiener And I so hoped for a better answer now. :D
12:04 [Coke] I just realized I let the daily test runner go for 2 days without even thinking about it. go to check... results for the last 3 days are all identical. Do I have to LOOK for it to work? ;)
12:06 [Coke] yes. parrot must be Configure'd with the libraries present, or it generates code that doesn't use the libraries.
12:06 [Coke] it doesn't auto-detect at runtime.
12:06 [Coke] # 03/15/2012 - rakudo++ ; niecza (96.22%); pugs (38.97%)
12:07 icwiener Jus treconfiguring and rebuilding did not work. I will now start a clean build.
12:08 flussence .oO( I thought ICU was enabled-by-default? )
12:09 [Coke] reconfiguring... rakudo?
12:09 [Coke] no, because it's going to see that you have a working parrot and use it.
12:10 [Coke] Sorry for the pain.
12:10 [Coke] flussence: if it's not THERE, how can it be enabled?
12:10 icwiener It's no pain for me. :)
12:15 icwiener I have been watching the perl6 development from a distance for quite some time now. I was doing some perl5 about 10 years ago. Unfortunately I am one of those people who let themselves be held back by the fact that "the next version" would be "coming soon". So I never dug in deeper into perl5. Once in a while I start doing some smaller stuff in perl6, like now in Rakudo perl. Now is the first time I do something that is supposed to work when it
12:15 icwiener is finished though. So I am basically just starting to get a bit more serious. :)
12:18 masak cool. keep us posted.
12:19 mj41 joined #perl6
12:20 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
12:21 icwiener Hmm, I am still getting that error message.
12:22 icwiener http://paste.kde.org/441200/33190053/ Do you maybe see more in it than me?
12:25 gfldex icwiener: try aptitude install libicu-dev
12:25 gfldex you will have to rebuild rakudo
12:25 icwiener I just did both.
12:25 icwiener Rebuilt Parrot and Rakudo.
12:27 gfldex you may have to do a make distclean for parrot, rakudo and nqp
12:27 [Coke] what command line are you using for parrot and/or rakudo build?
12:28 * [Coke] tries to remember the parrot invocation for "am I compiled to use icu"
12:28 gfldex i had the same problem a while a go and IIRC i had to rm -r rakudo/ to get it fixed
12:28 icwiener gfldex: Because it was too complex for me, I removed the whole source folder, recloned and then ran perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --prefix=/home/motoko/usr/
12:29 sporous joined #perl6
12:30 [Coke] what does ./install/bin/parrot_config icu_shared say ?
12:30 [Coke] what does ./install/bin/parrot_config has_icu
12:30 [Coke] (that second one is more useful)
12:30 [Coke] that'll tell us if parrot even has ICU.
12:31 icwiener 0
12:31 icwiener Hmm ...
12:31 [Coke] so, back to parrot, it's not finding your icu.
12:31 [Coke] lemme see...
12:32 [Coke] icwiener: what does "icu_config" say ?
12:32 [Coke] no pathing, just the raw command.
12:33 icwiener parrot_config [ <config-key> [ <config-key> ... ] | --dump | --help ]
12:33 icwiener :D
12:34 [Coke] icwiener: 08:32 < [Coke]> icwiener: what does "icu_config" say ?
12:34 xinming joined #perl6
12:34 gfldex isnt it icu-config?
12:34 [Coke] wrong program.
12:35 [Coke] gfldex: whoops!
12:35 Vespakoen joined #perl6
12:35 [Coke] parrot runs "icu-config" (gfldex++) to see if you have icu.
12:35 [Coke] if it can't find it, you (apparently) don't.
12:35 icwiener Ah, wrong progam, sorry.
12:36 icwiener There is no icu_config. icu-config gives usage info.
12:36 icwiener Do you mean icuinfo?
12:38 gfldex icu-config --ldflags
12:38 gfldex check if it does something reasonable
12:40 icwiener -ldl -lm   -L/usr/lib -licui18n -licuuc -licudata  -ldl -lm
12:42 daxim joined #perl6
12:42 icwiener parrot_config --dump lists "libparrot_linkflags => '-L"/home/motoko/compile/rakudo/parrot/blib/lib" -lparrot'" but parrot is not directly inside rakudo/. Is that something that could cause problems?
12:44 moritz the question is if there's a libparrot.so in /home/motoko/compile/rakudo/parrot/blib/lib
12:46 icwiener No, there isn't.
12:46 icwiener The folder "parrot/" is not even there.
12:47 icwiener The file is in ~/usr/lib/libparrot.so here
12:51 moritz did you configure parrot with --prefix=$HOME/usr ?
12:52 icwiener Yep.
12:52 icwiener perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --prefix=/home/motoko/usr/
12:52 moritz uhm.
12:52 moritz --gen-parrot assumes (or creates) a copy of parrot below the rakudo dir
12:53 moritz did you remove that?
12:53 icwiener No.
12:54 icwiener It does not do that with my command.
12:54 icwiener If I remove the --prefix= it fetches it.
12:54 moritz then there's something rather fishy going on
12:54 moritz was there an older parrot installed in ~/usr ?
12:55 icwiener Ah, might be, yes.
12:55 icwiener I mean, yes it was. The one I installed yesterday.
12:56 moritz ah
12:56 moritz then rakudo's Configure.pl picked it up, and didn't try to build a new one
12:56 icwiener And because I did not know how to cleanly rebuild all the parts of the stack, I removed the source folder earlier.
12:57 daxim http://www.infoworld.com/d/applica​tion-development/why-new-programin​g-languages-succeed-or-fail-188648     # hit /. earlier
12:57 moritz so, either remove the install dir too
12:58 moritz or force rakudo to build a new parrot
12:58 moritz for example with   --gen-parrot=master --prefix=...
13:00 moritz "Similarly, when Ruby began it was essentially a more powerful Perl."
13:00 moritz was it? more powerful, I mean
13:01 tadzik maybe it's about all this "We have OOP and unicorns and everything"
13:01 moritz ah, right. "everyting is an object", so it must be more powerful.
13:02 tadzik right
13:02 tadzik it even sounds like power verbalized
13:03 colomon Objects: real ultimate power!
13:03 colomon (not)
13:04 plobsing_ joined #perl6
13:04 sftp joined #perl6
13:07 moritz speaking of objects, I need a bit help with naming something...
13:07 moritz I want to build a system that can notify you when... stuff happens
13:07 moritz for example, if an artist releases a new CD, or goes on tour
13:08 moritz usually I'd call that an 'event', but in this context 'event' could also be an artist performing a concert
13:08 moritz so, what's more general than 'event', for when stuff happens?
13:09 moritz or should I name it 'event', and find something other for the other event?
13:09 moritz "performance" maybe?
13:09 sisar joined #perl6
13:10 [Coke] +1 on that.
13:10 [Coke] also, names for programmers don't have to == names for users.
13:11 moritz right
13:11 moritz thought it's easier for the programmer if he doesn't have to translate all the time
13:11 moritz *though
13:12 icwiener Ok, parrot is now there. ICU still not.
13:12 not_gerd joined #perl6
13:12 moritz :/
13:12 moritz icwiener: if you go into the parrot dir, and run 'perl Configure.pl', there's  line about icu
13:12 moritz would be interesting if that ends with 'yes' or 'no'
13:13 not_gerd moritz: NQP build just failed here - see https://github.com/perl6/nqp/pull/31
13:13 [Coke] moritz: yes, but that just will say the same thing that ./parrot_config has_icu says.
13:13 icwiener auto::icu -           Is ICU installed....................................yes.
13:13 [Coke] what you want more is the verbose output fromthat configure step, I think.
13:13 moritz wait, that's *not* the same as has_icu
13:13 [Coke] icwiener: and does ./parrot_config has_icu say "1" ?
13:14 icwiener Wee ...
13:14 dalek nqp: 07ce402 | (Gerhard R)++ | src/6model/base64. (2 files):
13:14 dalek nqp: Make base64.[ch] compile with new error levels
13:14 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/07ce402461
13:14 dalek nqp: ffd778a | moritz++ | src/6model/base64. (2 files):
13:14 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #31 from gerdr/gerdr/cleanup
13:14 dalek nqp:
13:14 dalek nqp: Make base64.[ch] compile with new error levels
13:14 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ffd778ac69
13:14 icwiener Meh.
13:14 moritz not_gerd: thanks
13:14 moritz not_gerd++
13:15 icwiener The parrot in ~/usr says 0, the one in rakudo/ says 1. No idea why it did not install it again.
13:15 moritz not_gerd: I've also given you commit access to nqp
13:17 [Coke] ok. so you've built a local parrot that has ICU. is your rakudo usin that parrot?
13:18 [Coke] if you are building rakudo and telling rakudo to build parrot, it will install it in ./install, not in ~/usr
13:18 icwiener I guess it is using the one in ~/usr since that is in the PATH.
13:18 [Coke] (unless you're overriding that too.)
13:18 icwiener Even if I use --prefix=?
13:19 moritz no, prefix works (I just tried it)
13:19 moritz but if there's an old parrot in the --prefix dir, rakudo doesn't bother to build a new one
13:19 moritz so   rm ~/usr/bin/parrot*
13:20 icwiener Yep, I will do that now.
13:20 moritz and then try again with  perl Configure --gen-parrot --prefix=$HOME/usr
13:20 icwiener I messed up with the prefix once, so now I have both versions configured with different prefixes.
13:21 icwiener Is there a make clean command that cleans all the parts?
13:21 [Coke] moritz: seems like we'd want to be able to force a build of anew parrot.
13:22 [Coke] (without having to uninstall it the hard way first.)
13:22 icwiener He mentioned --gen-parrot=master does that?
13:25 kaleem_ joined #perl6
13:36 sftp joined #perl6
13:45 icwiener I just learned why it is better to keep modules in .perl6/lib ;)
13:46 icwiener And it works now. :D
13:46 icwiener Thanks all of you.
13:46 icwiener And sorry for messing up my install.
13:50 xenu joined #perl6
13:55 xenu joined #perl6
14:01 moritz [Coke]: I think --gen-parrot=SOMETHING always forces a rebuild, but yes, something more convenient wouldn't hurt
14:01 skids joined #perl6
14:02 [Coke] works? \o/
14:02 [Coke] moritz: as long as there's a way to do it.
14:05 dalek nqp: fdec156 | moritz++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
14:05 dalek nqp: bump parrot revision
14:05 dalek nqp:
14:05 dalek nqp: just to get some better testing of newer birds, no specific reason
14:05 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fdec156a02
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 40b20ca | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: bump NQP revision to get NQP build fixes by not_gerd++
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/40b20cac12
14:11 retup_work joined #perl6
14:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 16bf0f4 | moritz++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
14:27 dalek rakudo/nom: unbreak the build.
14:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/16bf0f4d1a
14:33 not_gerd left #perl6
14:36 pernatiy joined #perl6
14:41 araujo joined #perl6
14:41 araujo joined #perl6
14:43 PacoAir joined #perl6
14:44 kaare_ joined #perl6
14:54 dalek roast: e79501d | moritz++ | S05-mass/rx.t:
14:54 dalek roast: fudge rakudo regression (ticket already filed)
14:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e79501dfe1
15:18 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:31 benabik_ joined #perl6
15:43 flussence my rakudo compile keeps exploding at the same place :(
15:43 flussence https://gist.github.com/2050618
15:45 flussence oh, problem on my end I think
15:46 flussence yeah it was, I had a one-character local edit in a nqp file and that got git into a wedged state
15:46 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:53 xinming joined #perl6
15:59 flussence nope, failed again in the same place :/
16:06 havenn joined #perl6
16:09 sorear goood * #perl6
16:10 moritz flussence: can you nopaste the error?
16:11 moritz good * sorear
16:18 mdupont joined #perl6
16:19 tyatpi joined #perl6
16:31 noteventime joined #perl6
16:48 MayDaniel joined #perl6
16:56 flussence moritz: retried after making sure all my git clones were in order, no change: https://gist.github.com/2050618/fecbcd12
16:56 vlkv joined #perl6
17:10 sjohnson joined #perl6
17:12 NamelessTee joined #perl6
17:13 fglock joined #perl6
17:16 sorear o/ fglock
17:17 fglock o/ sorear
17:18 moritz flussence: eeks, it fails in dyncall :/
17:18 fglock I'm now adding wantarray() to the p5 compiler - it took me a while to get how it works
17:21 sjohnson hi
17:22 not_gerd joined #perl6
17:24 not_gerd flussence: parrot recently added -Werror=strict-prototypes to CFLAGS, which apparently breaks dyncall
17:24 moritz sigh
17:26 moritz I thought it was now parrot policy to test stuff downstream first
17:29 [Coke] moritz: yes, well, not everything is obviously something that needs testing.
17:29 not_gerd also, the build isn't broken everywhere - works fine for me (might be related to gcc version)
17:30 moritz not_gerd: point taken
17:30 moritz flussence: what's your GCC version?
17:31 Vlavv` joined #perl6
17:31 not_gerd we probably shouldn't pass parrot's CFLAGS to 3rdparty libs...
17:32 moritz well, we should, to ensure binary compatiblity
17:32 moritz or at least some them
17:32 moritz it also doesn't make much sense to write our own configure system to detect all the necessary options a second time
17:35 havenn joined #perl6
17:44 not_gerd flussence: could you try https://gist.github.com/2051384 as a quick fix (untested)
18:05 not_gerd actually, it might be the make version and not gcc -- according to the manual, GNU make used to export all variables by default, whereas new version do not
18:10 retup_work joined #perl6
18:10 not_gerd moritz: I just verified thatGNU make 3.82.90 does not pass CFLAGS to the dyncall build system
18:14 pmurias joined #perl6
18:17 fglock pmurias: o/
18:19 Chillance joined #perl6
18:20 pmurias joined #perl6
18:20 pmurias fglock: hi
18:23 cbk1090 joined #perl6
18:23 pmurias fglock: how will we mangle intentifiers javascript can't handle?
18:23 pmurias like @#?
18:29 * [Coke] will be sure to get up to date copies of the big three on his laptop before hitting the planes tomorrow.
18:31 pmurias fglock: @# is not a special variable, it just has a wierd name
18:36 fglock joined #perl6
18:37 fglock pmurias: that's currently not possible, only globals can have special names - but mangling of lexicals can be added at the Var emitter
18:37 Psyche^ joined #perl6
18:38 * flussence undecommutes
18:38 flussence moritz: GCC 4.5.3
18:39 moritz flussence: and make?
18:39 flussence make -v says 3.82
18:40 moritz flussence: thanks
18:41 not_gerd flussence: gmake -v hopefully says the same thing?
18:41 flussence yep
18:46 pmurias fglock: is there a way to pretty print the AST?
18:51 fglock yes, you can use the p5 backend, in the end of ./perlito5.pl add: use Data::Dumper / warn Dumper $ast
18:52 not_gerd flussence: did you see https://gist.github.com/2051384 , which should work for now until we come up with a proper fix...
18:54 flussence I'll give it a try
18:58 pmurias fglock: should the p5 backend attempt to insert 'our' for no strict code, or just disable strict in the emitted code?
18:59 pmurias explicitly qualifing the variables seems much better then inserting our
19:01 fglock it should emit "plain" perl5, so emit "no strict"/"our" as in the ast
19:02 pmurias "plain" meaning keep to the orginal code as close as possible?
19:04 geekosaur meaning don't assume the existence of a setting that provides a known environment, I think?
19:05 moritz oops, it looks like TPF hasn't been approved for this year's GSOC :(
19:06 moritz rafl: do you know what went wrong?
19:06 rafl i have no idea
19:06 Psyche^ joined #perl6
19:06 rafl the only things i can think are
19:06 rafl a weak-ish ideas page
19:07 rafl and us being officially under new management for the first time - last year duke sent in our application
19:07 moritz :(
19:07 [Coke] :(
19:08 rafl parrot is in, fwiw
19:08 moritz I know
19:08 rafl so you guys might get some stuff done with that, i guess
19:08 [Coke] well, rakudo projects at least are probably still cool over at parrot.
19:08 PerlJam Is it too late for TPF ?
19:08 moritz PerlJam: yes, I think so
19:08 rafl well - there's always next year and GCI, i suppose
19:08 PerlJam :(
19:08 rafl but otherwise yes
19:08 moritz still, rafl++ for doing all the work
19:09 rafl @us++ # so many helped out
19:09 rafl i honestly felt we had the best org application since.. well.. ever
19:09 sorear o/ rafl
19:09 rafl hey
19:10 PerlJam Is there any way we can find out what happened so that it doesn't happen again?
19:10 [Coke] rafl++
19:10 [Coke] yes, there's an IRC meeting later.
19:10 moritz and parrot doesn't even have an ideas page listed at http://www.google-melange.com/g​soc/org/google/gsoc2012/parrot
19:10 pmurias rafl: :(
19:11 rafl moritz: that's the org profile - that's different from the org application and orgs only had one hour before now to fill the profile out
19:11 rafl PerlJam: yes. there's an irc meeting for rejected orgs next week
19:12 moritz rafl: oh, ok
19:12 masak rafl: :(
19:12 masak odd that TPF didn't get in.
19:13 moritz iirc last year some pretty big and respected orgs didn't get in either
19:13 rafl i just hope it isn't because they wanted to prefer smaller orgs this year
19:13 sorear http://twitter.com/#!/raimu​e/status/180732762540621824
19:13 pernatiy joined #perl6
19:13 rafl cause i told a few smallish perl projects specifically to not apply as chances seemed better with the umbrella org
19:13 [Coke] um, the number of orgs is increasing slowly.
19:13 rafl sorear: i think that's just melange being shit. the list is growing
19:14 [Coke] it was at 53. now at 54. that tweet says 46
19:14 rafl there's an upside, though - not having to deal with melange for half a year :)
19:14 [Coke] rafl;did you get a rejection notice? or are you basing it just on the list?
19:14 rafl that, and not being burned out at the end of the summer :)
19:14 rafl i did get a rejection notice about an hour ago
19:15 [Coke] up to 55...
19:15 rafl anyway - pre social of a linux conference coming up
19:15 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
19:15 rafl i'm gonna drown my disappointment
19:15 [Coke] ah. The list won't show orgs that have not yet filled our their profile.
19:15 rafl sorry everyone for not getting things to work out for us this time around
19:16 [Coke] rafl++ for the work.
19:16 [Coke] rafl: you going to yapc::na?
19:16 rafl yes
19:16 [Coke] I will happily buy you a drink there. ;)
19:17 havenn joined #perl6
19:17 * rafl hopes to be over this by then, not needing a drink anymore :)
19:21 sjohnson mmmm.. drinks
19:22 * sjohnson could use some doghair
19:22 sorear o/ sjohnson
19:24 * fglock wonders how to debug javascript
19:25 sjohnson sorear: hi :3
19:25 sjohnson fglock:  firebug ?
19:26 dalek nqp: 99f34ab | (Gerhard R)++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/GNUmakefile:
19:26 dalek nqp: Temporary fix for dyncall build failure
19:26 dalek nqp:
19:26 dalek nqp: See https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/735
19:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/99f34ab081
19:26 not_gerd moritz, flussence: ^^
19:27 Trashlord joined #perl6
19:27 fglock my patch is misbehaving, I'd need to compare the trace with the unpatched version
19:27 fglock (adding contexts to the perl5 compiler)
19:43 felher I hope i'm not indiscreet with that but i wonder: where did pmichaud++ go and is he coming back? :)
19:44 [Coke] he's taking care of family issues. He (and we) hopes he'll get back soon, but no timeline.
19:44 [Coke] plenty of progress in his absence, though, which is good.
19:45 felher [Coke]: yeah, i was just wondering. Thnx ;)
19:45 felher * :)
19:48 sorear felher:
19:48 sorear (spurious send)
19:49 felher :)
19:59 PerlJam I think there's an install problem with nqp.  After a fresh install of parrot, nqp, and rakudo, when I run rakudo, I get "Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/stage2/QRegex.nqp'"
20:00 pyrimidine that GSoC melange showing is misleading.  The org has to have a completed profile to show up, so more orgs are accepted that just those on that page
20:00 pyrimidine rafl: did you get an email saying Perl Foundation didn't get in?
20:01 pyrimidine rafl: nm, saw that you did
20:04 pyrimidine re: pmichaud's absence, would love to see him back, but I am also glad there is still progress being made
20:09 Vespakoen joined #perl6
20:09 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:10 Vespakoen joined #perl6
20:10 donaldh joined #perl6
20:11 mj41 joined #perl6
20:11 flussence not_gerd++, patch wfm
20:13 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:13 felher If i write a literal zero ('0'), does this create a new scalar container containing zero? (/me is wondering how 'my $x := 0' works)
20:14 pmurias fglock: in the p5 backend do we want the eval to pass the code through perlito?
20:15 not_gerd flussence: the gist one, the NQP commit or both?
20:16 sorear felher: yes, but it's a read-only container
20:16 sorear in Rakudo read-only containers are punned to the corresponding objects to save memory; this seems nontrivial to copy in niecza/C# but if I ever do niecza/C I'll copy it
20:17 flussence not_gerd: the gist one
20:17 fglock hmm - maybe not, because in p5-to-p5 we don't keep the compiler state at emit-time, so we can't give eval the right env
20:18 flussence (I'm not sure how to build all of the rakudo toolchain manually, so I guess I'll just wait it out)
20:18 not_gerd flussence: the gist as-is breaks the windows build, so I committed a slightly different patch to the NQP repo
20:18 pmurias fglock: right env = lexicals + ?
20:19 felher sorear: thanks :)
20:20 pmurias fglock: eval(compile_perlito5_to_perl5($code)) would have access to lexicals
20:22 felher sorear: ah, so if i do 'my $x := 0' and then '$x := $x + 1', then '$x + 1' creates a new container containing '$x + 1' and then in bind '$x' to that new container. Is that about right?
20:24 fglock pmurias: no, I was thinking about access to declarations that the compiler might need to know about - but I think the p5 emitter rely on "perl" to figure those out; and there is enough info in global vars too
20:24 fglock so it might just work
20:25 sorear felher: yes
20:28 masak right. native $i++ operations will probably have to do a similar re-bind.
20:31 felher sorear: oh, and everytime i do a bind on a non-container (like $x + 1), it's read-only? As opposed to a bind like '$x := y'?
20:33 felher o/ masak: may i ask: have you already startet working on d2? :)
20:34 * felher suddenly remembers something about new-ast-something?
20:34 sorear felher: yes, it's read only
20:34 felher sorear++: great, that helped a lot. thnx :)
20:35 sorear yay
20:40 masak felher: not really -- I'm blocking on QAST, so I'll want to look at that next.
20:40 masak felher: presently I'm attacking t4 and surroundings :)
20:41 felher masak: oh, yeah, the p6cc. great :)
20:41 * masak .oO( ah, letter-digit codes for the initiated )
20:45 ksi joined #perl6
20:48 not_gerd left #perl6
21:24 arnsholt Arglebargle. Why do supposely serious things like PayPal insist on this harebrained "security question" thing?
21:24 arnsholt Bah! Humbug!
21:40 flussence arnsholt: they're running a web2.0, crowdsourced simulation of the "find the resistance between these two nodes of an infinite grid of 1Ω resistors" puzzle...
21:41 arnsholt Heh. Thankfully I've not done any electronics, so I can't fall prey to that =)
22:00 moritz luckily that thing can be solved analytically with discrete Green's Function theory
22:00 moritz it's not easy to find the solution, but when you read the papers it's no rocket science either
22:21 localhost joined #perl6
22:26 jnthn joined #perl6
22:26 jnthn Buenos tardes, #perl6 :)
22:27 jnthn *buenas
22:27 jnthn tssk
22:27 * jnthn ain't staying long, just enough to note he's alive after $long-trip :)
22:28 fglock o/ jnthn
22:28 jnthn hi fglock
22:31 masak jnthn! \o/
22:32 masak Buenos Aires, oh tardy one!
22:38 jnthn masak: :P
22:38 * jnthn meant to have a relaxing first day after all the flying, then accidentally walked 10km or so
22:38 masak I hate when that accidentally happens.
22:43 whiteknight joined #perl6
22:44 felher Does NQP support typed arrays? I'm wondering because i saw something like: 'has @!CODES;' and and comment above that line 'a stack of code objects'.
22:44 jnthn felher: Not at the moment, no
22:45 ksi joined #perl6
22:45 felher jnthn: ah, okay :)
22:46 jnthn felher: It'd be very hard to statically typed that case anyway
22:47 felher jnthn: 'that case' means that particular array?
22:47 jnthn felher: yeah
22:47 jnthn That come is compiled before we get around to defining the Perl 6 metamodel, let alone the Code type :)
22:47 jnthn s/come/code/
22:50 felher jnthn: what is in that array anyway? src/core/Code.pm-code-classes? I don't see how they do implement add_phaser. Seems more like src/core/Block.pm-block-classes, maybe? :)
22:50 jnthn felher: Most likely, yeah
22:51 jnthn I guess a thunk could in theory end up on there
22:51 jnthn oh, no, I think that can't happen actually
22:51 jnthn so yeah, it's probably always Block and subclasses of that
22:51 jnthn (Block is a direct descendent of code, though, so the comment ain't wrong as such)
22:51 broquaint joined #perl6
22:53 felher jnthn: how does that work? src/code/Block.pm doesn't do 'is Code' or something like that?
22:53 jnthn felher: No, that's all wired up in BOOTSTRAP.pm
22:54 jnthn felher: Some bits of the object system need to be wired up before we start parsing the setting
22:54 jnthn BOOTSTRAP.pm does that work, mostly in a BEGIN block these days so we serialize it rather than doing it every startup
22:56 felher jnthn: oh, Block.HOW.add_parent(Block, Code) i guess?
22:56 jnthn Right
23:01 jnthn Time to see if I can find a snack and a drink before taking an early night...back tomorrow o/
23:01 felher jnthn: sleep well. And thanks for your explanations. :)
23:09 wolfman2000 joined #perl6
23:20 masak 'night, jnthn. dream of a relaxing second day, with only 20km of accidental walking :)

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo