Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-04-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:05 * colomon just added ties to the abc2ly.pl script in the ABC module.  Too easy!
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00:26 colomon r: my $a = "hello "; $a.subst(/\s+$/, ")$0"); say $a;
00:26 p6eval rakudo c4f9b1: OUTPUT«hello ␤»
00:26 colomon r: my $a = "hello "; $a.subst(/\s+$/, "boo"); say $a;
00:26 p6eval rakudo c4f9b1: OUTPUT«hello ␤»
00:27 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; $a.subst(/\s+$/, "boo"); say $a;
00:27 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«hello ␤»
00:27 * colomon wonders what stupid mistake he is now making
00:27 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; $a.subst(/\s+/, "boo"); say $a;
00:27 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«hello ␤»
00:27 colomon doh!
00:27 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/\s+/, "boo");
00:27 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«helloboo␤»
00:28 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/\s+$/, "boo");
00:28 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«helloboo␤»
00:28 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/\s+$/, "boo$_");
00:28 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1223 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 235 (Mu.Str @ 10) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
00:28 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/\s+$/, "boo$/");
00:28 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1223 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 235 (Mu.Str @ 10) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
00:28 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/(\s+)$/, "boo$[0]");
00:28 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Non-variable $ must be backslashed at /tmp/p1dePGaETt line 1:â�¤------> [32m = "hello "; say $a.subst(/(\s+)$/, "boo[33mâ��[31m$[0]");[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
00:28 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/(\s+)$/, "boo$0");
00:28 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1223 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 235 (Mu.Str @ 10) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
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00:29 TimToady "boo$0" is evaluated before the .subst is called
00:31 colomon TimToady++
00:31 colomon n: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/(\s+)$/, { "boo$0" });
00:31 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«helloboo ␤»
00:31 colomon r: my $a = "hello "; say $a.subst(/(\s+)$/, { "boo$0" });
00:31 p6eval rakudo c4f9b1: OUTPUT«helloboo␤»
00:34 colomon TimToady: and now slurs work too in the abc2ly, thanks to you.
00:35 zhutingting joined #perl6
00:39 TimToady just so they're PC slurs
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00:41 colomon Mac, actually.  ;)
00:50 lichtkind good night
00:50 lichtkind separated glossary and main index + some other improvements that took unearthly efforts
01:00 * [Coke] is reminded by the impending parrot release that he's up for rakudo this week.
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01:05 [Coke] rakudo release coming up: please update the ChangeLog/ROADMAP, etc.
01:05 [Coke] I am tempted to use my home PM for the name this month.
01:05 scott____ joined #perl6
01:06 [Coke] but will probably use Brazos Valley
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01:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 424936c | coke++ | docs/announce/2012.04:
01:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Add preliminary release announcement
01:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/424936c740
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02:24 uvtc Anyone know if the [cheatsheet](https://raw.github.com/perl6/mu/master​/docs/Perl6/Cheatsheet/cheatsheet.txt) is currently up-to-date?
02:25 sorear I think it is
02:26 uvtc I don't see "gather/take" on it. Excuse my ignorance, but should it be on there?
02:27 sorear you'd have to ask TimToady; I know for a fact it was updated more recently than gather/take was added
02:27 sorear I think last year
02:27 sorear (there have no major syntax changes since then)
02:27 uvtc Thanks, sorear.
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03:08 colomon oh noez, seg fault in the ABC code (under Rakudo)
03:13 colomon intermittent seg faults.  sigh.
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04:50 raiph phenny, tell lichtkind i chatted with uvtc. i agreed to do the lookup-to-index (b2a) etc. links to complete his conversion to Pandoc-Markdown. Then we can use that instead of socialtext or raw html.
04:50 phenny raiph: I'll pass that on when lichtkind is around.
04:51 raiph phenny, tell lichtkind if we go this route (please!) we'll want moritz to create a perl6 repo from http://www.unexpected-vortice​s.com/temp/tablet-docs.tar.gz (as published at http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/pe​rl-6/temp-tablets/introduction.html) and stick to editing that repo.
04:51 phenny raiph: I'll pass that on when lichtkind is around.
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06:59 tadzik 52.56% in jaffa4's test
06:59 tadzik I'm curious about the correct answers now
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07:02 zhutingting perl6: multi sub identify(Int $a) { say "Int $a" } identify(42)
07:02 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«Int 42␤»
07:02 p6eval ..rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/aIhOD4CiY0:1␤»
07:02 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/bj9v2RJAx7 line 1:�------> [32mti sub identify(Int $a) { say "Int $a" }[33m�[31m identify(42)[0m��Parse failed��»
07:03 zhutingting perl6: multi sub identify(Array @a) { say "Array" } identify(1..10)
07:03 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/MEwOon7HDJ line 1:â�¤------> [32mi sub identify(Array @a) { say "Array" }[33mâ��[31m identify(1..10)[0mâ�¤Other potential difficulties:â�¤  @a is decla…
07:03 p6eval ..rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/8BBsFbQ3Le:1␤»
07:03 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«Array␤»
07:04 sorear zhutingting: Array @a means an array of arrays
07:05 sorear zhutingting: also, you need a semicolon after the closing brace for p6eval
07:07 zhutingting can perl6bot remember my command?
07:07 tadzik nope
07:07 zhutingting perl6: my $a = 1
07:07 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/KHSfvy4Xe5 line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$a = 1[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
07:07 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 424936:  ( no output )
07:07 zhutingting perl6: $a.say
07:07 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $a is not declared␤at /tmp/h9f2cYNwhx:1␤»
07:07 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/YVyELTAXAM line 1:â�¤------> [32m<BOL>[33mâ��[31m$a.say[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1366 (die @ 3) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niec…
07:07 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "."␤    expecting "::"␤    Variable "$a" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤    at /tmp/aYRmYduETq line 1, column 3␤»
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07:10 zhutingting one question about sort
07:10 zhutingting perl6 give Schwartzian Transform for free
07:11 tadzik sort of
07:11 zhutingting so it generates a array ref or a hash %cache?
07:11 moritz that's a statement, not a question
07:11 frettled Well, not entirely.
07:11 tadzik ( H A H A H A )
07:12 moritz zhutingting: actually rakudo doesn't really implement the Schwartzian Transform, but something equivalent which is faster
07:12 moritz zhutingting: it sorts the indexes of the original array
07:12 zhutingting oh perl6 secret sort
07:12 moritz zhutingting: so it doesn't have to allocate a data structure for every single array element
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07:14 moritz see src/core/List.pm lines 243-264
07:15 zhutingting thx moritz ;-)
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07:49 moritz meh, chromatic blogs about bugs instead of submitting them
07:51 moritz (doing both would be fine too :-0
07:51 moritz s/0/)/
07:56 jnthn mornin'
07:57 moritz \o jnthn
07:58 jnthn Submitting them would be much wiser. I read the bug tracker.
07:59 moritz in this case it's about a p5 module
08:05 jnthn oh
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08:23 masak ante-noon, #p6.
08:23 arnsholt Moin, moin
08:23 arnsholt jnthn: Thanks for the enclueing yesterday
08:24 arnsholt Setting a CArray child now works, but I've somehow triggered a NULL pointer in P6int.c when reading
08:26 jnthn That's...a curious place to trigger a NULL pointer...
08:26 moritz arnsholt: fwiw if your changes to nqp don't cause any regressions in existing code, it would be nice to merge them soonish, because the Rakudo (and thus nqp) release is on Thursday
08:26 arnsholt That's what I thought as well
08:27 moritz great
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08:27 arnsholt That last was actually intended for jnthn, but yeah. That too
08:27 moritz :-)
08:27 jnthn arnsholt: Stack trace would help
08:28 arnsholt jnthn: 'sec
08:28 jnthn I'm actually at $on-site-client today so can only give this so much attention at the moment.
08:28 arnsholt Sure. I'm probably supposed to do worky stuff as well
08:29 jnthn ;)
08:30 arnsholt https://gist.github.com/2404545
08:31 arnsholt So one thing I mulled over on the subway this morning is the lack of member typing on the CArray child of the CStruct
08:32 arnsholt Had to kill that to stop Rakudo from complaining about type mismatches when binding
08:33 moritz arnsholt: backtrace missing from the gist
08:33 moritz (type bt\n in the debugger, but I guess you know that :-)
08:33 arnsholt Derp
08:34 arnsholt There. Copypasta braino
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08:49 zhutingting perl6: sub star($a, *@a) { @a.say }; star(1, 2, 3);
08:49 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«2 3␤»
08:49 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«23␤»
08:49 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/PZPMTpZRcK line 1:â�¤------> [32msub star([33mâ��[31m$a, *@a) { @a.say }; star(1, 2, 3);[0mâ�¤â�¤2 3â�¤Â»
08:50 zhutingting perl6: sub star($a, *@a) { @a.say }; star(1..10);
08:50 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/TOF7Qdpz_U line 1:â�¤------> [32msub star([33mâ��[31m$a, *@a) { @a.say }; star(1..10);[0mâ�¤â�¤â�¤Â»
08:50 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«␤»
08:50 zhutingting how to sent an array as a list not ref in parameter transport?
08:51 mdupont joined #perl6
08:51 moritz perl6: sub star($a, *@a) { @a.say }; star | 1..10
08:51 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&prefix:<|>' called (line 1)␤»
08:51 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/XEx40Z2rYe line 1:â�¤------> [32msub star([33mâ��[31m$a, *@a) { @a.say }; star | 1..10[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Capture in class Intâ�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.se…
08:51 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
08:51 moritz perl6: sub star($a, *@a) { @a.say }; star |(1..10)
08:51 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«Method 'FLATTENABLE_LIST' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/c0_DgA4dH4:1␤␤»
08:51 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/2Mj_tloExN line 1:â�¤------> [32msub star([33mâ��[31m$a, *@a) { @a.say }; star |(1..10)[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Capture in class Rangeâ�¤  at /tmp/2Mj_tloExN line 1 (main…
08:51 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
08:52 lestrrat joined #perl6
08:52 zhutingting perl6: sub star($a, *@a) { @a.say }; star(|1..10);
08:52 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&prefix:<|>' called (line 1)␤»
08:52 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/S02TcsIyiK line 1:â�¤------> [32msub star([33mâ��[31m$a, *@a) { @a.say }; star(|1..10);[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Capture in class Intâ�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.s…
08:52 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
08:52 moritz wow, that sucks. It should work that way
08:52 moritz perl6: sub star($a, *@a) { @a.say }; star |(1..10).list
08:52 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/xhSgZKPZ8E line 1:â�¤------> [32msub star([33mâ��[31m$a, *@a) { @a.say }; star |(1..10).list[0mâ�¤â�¤2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10â�¤Â»
08:52 p6eval ..rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
08:52 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
08:52 moritz that works in niecza and rakudo, though niecza warns about unused $1
08:52 moritz erm, unused $a
08:52 moritz perl6: sub star($, *@a) { @a.say }; star |(1..10).list
08:52 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected ","␤    expecting formal parameter␤    at /tmp/BfKDmkDfRR line 1, column 11␤»
08:52 p6eval ..rakudo 424936, niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
08:53 zhutingting use | preappend yeah
08:56 masak oh wow. https://github.com/jmechner​/Prince-of-Persia-Apple-II
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08:58 masak I would like to say "this brings back memories", but I'm not sure I ever quite forgot this game.
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09:09 jnthn arnsholt:  data=0x0
09:09 jnthn There's your problem...
09:09 jnthn arnsholt: I'm guessing the CArray isn't set up properly somehow...
09:10 * jnthn tries to work out for $dayjob, how is PIVOT query formed? how data get rotated? :)
09:12 moritz fun
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09:37 masak p6: say ord("𐌈")
09:37 p6eval pugs, rakudo 424936, niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«66312␤»
09:37 masak \o/
09:48 bbkr_ moritz: I've spotted 2 new warnings on OS X: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=112492 and I'm not sure if those were caused by fix in https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=112310
09:48 bbkr_ my C skills are way too rusty to verify that
09:48 moritz bbkr_: the "function returns an aggregate
09:48 moritz " thing is well known
09:48 moritz yes, we return an aggregate. It's valid if you know how to handle it
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09:49 jnthn The fix is to turn off the warning.
09:49 jnthn It's because old compilers could not handle it.
09:49 jnthn This is 2012.
09:49 jaffa4 hi
09:50 masak hi jaffa4
09:50 jaffa4 Can niecza handle grammars at all?
09:50 masak yes.
09:50 masak Niecza's Perl 6 parser is written with Perl 6 grammars.
09:50 jaffa4 I keep gettiong Cannot dispatch to a method on pq because it is not inherited or done by Cursor
09:51 masak a minimal piece of code where you get this, posted to a pastebin, will help us diagnose that error for you.
09:51 bbkr_ ok, I copy pasted this decision to silence warning into ticket about aggregates
09:52 jaffa4 http://pastebin.com/uikRPgHy
09:53 masak jaffa4: glancing quickly, I'd say problem is /<pq::S>/
09:53 * moritz too
09:53 masak I'm not sure the :: syntax figures in grammars at all any more.
09:54 moritz well, it works(-ish) in rakudo again
09:54 masak jaffa4: check S05 for how to use pq.parse instead.
09:54 masak or MyGrammar.parse in general.
09:54 moritz if pg.parse($str, :rule<S>) { ... }
09:55 jnthn Rakudo handles <pq::S> style things pretty well these days
09:55 jnthn We pass tests for them, anyways.
09:55 moritz r: grammar pg { token identifier { hello }; rule S { <identifier> } }; say 'hello' ~~ /<pg::S>/
09:55 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«=> <hello>␤ pg::S => <hello>␤  identifier => <hello>␤␤»
09:56 jaffa4 n: grammar pg { token identifier { hello }; rule S { <identifier> } }; say 'hello' ~~ /<pg::S>/
09:56 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot dispatch to a method on pg because it is not inherited or done by Cursor␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 250 (Mu.dispatch:<::> @ 3) ␤  at /tmp/WxXGJ70Yxe line 1 (ANON @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
09:57 moritz n: grammar pg { }; say pg ~~ Grammar
09:57 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«True␤»
09:57 moritz n: grammar pg { }; say pg ~~ Cursor
09:57 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«True␤»
09:57 masak I'm not sure I like that (mis-)use of ::
09:57 moritz that looks like a nieczabug
09:57 masak :: is for packages.
09:57 moritz yes, but the error message says that pg doesn't do/is Cursor
09:57 moritz but it is
09:57 masak yeah.
09:58 masak that's odd.
09:59 moritz n: grammar pg { token identifier { hello }; rule S { <identifier> } }; pg.parse('hello', :rule<S>)
09:59 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073:  ( no output )
09:59 moritz n: grammar pg { token identifier { hello }; rule S { <identifier> } }; say pg.parse('hello', :rule<S>)
09:59 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(5) text(hello) pos([].list) named({"identifier" => #<match from(0) to(5) text(hello) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>}.hash)>␤»
09:59 moritz n: grammar pg { token identifier { hello }; rule TOP { <identifier> } }; say pg.parse('hello')
09:59 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(5) text(hello) pos([].list) named({"identifier" => #<match from(0) to(5) text(hello) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>}.hash)>␤»
09:59 * masak decommutes
09:59 moritz r: grammar pg { token identifier { hello }; rule S { <identifier> } }; say ('hello' ~~ /<pg::S>/).keys
09:59 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«pg::S␤»
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10:10 felher Hm, can someone confirm that './perl6 t/spec/S11-modules/require.t' fails?
10:12 moritz confirmed
10:12 jaffa4 What is this MyGrammar.parse($string, :actions($action-object))?
10:12 jaffa4 action-object?
10:12 moritz an object on which methods are called whenever a parsing rule finishes successfully
10:12 moritz that's handy for building result objects
10:13 jaffa4 WHat should be the structure of that?
10:13 moritz just a class with methods of the same name as grammar rules
10:14 moritz I'm sure I've written an example somewhere, let me dig it up...
10:14 jaffa4 and they $/ argumentt?
10:14 jaffa4 and they have $/ formal argumentt?
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10:14 moritz well, you can call the parameter whatever you like
10:15 moritz but $/ is usual, because the argument that is bound to that parameter is a Match object after all
10:15 moritz oh of course, there's an example and some explanation in Using Perl 6
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10:16 moritz http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=842792 also has some examples
10:17 felher Good so that was not introduced in my added exceptions. It may have been introduced with 1c862bc2bd3a222156cc443518291f4a2f135228
10:18 jaffa4 What is the difference between a rule and a token?
10:18 moritz jaffa4: see S05
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10:41 jaffa4 a good faq would not hurt
10:46 masak jaffa4: both tokens and rules do ratcheting. additionally, rules consider whitespace to be significant.
10:48 masak jaffa4: moritz is referring you to the spec all the time for the simple reason that the questions you ask often have very well-defined and precise answers in the spec. he is aware that you're averse to reading it, but he probably considers that it would save the both of you some time if you did.
10:49 masak it's the germ of the "if you didn't do any research, why should we help you?" culture that I see in other places dedicated or partly dedicated to helping newcomers with questions.
10:49 masak not saying it's good or bad. just saying it tends to establish itself as a cultural strain.
10:52 jaffa4 There are many ways of doing things including helping.
10:52 masak indeed.
10:53 masak I think the synthesis of it all is that "helping" is a bidirectional thing, where both parties have to listen and be adaptive.
10:54 jaffa4 Is this so in your culture?
10:54 gfldex if it takes as long to answer the question then to say "RTFM" it might be better to just stay silent
10:55 gfldex the spec is not the best documentation for a language one could wish for
10:55 masak I remember alester++ reacting about the fact that esr's "How to ask questions the smart way" has too much of this "If you didn't do your homework, why should we help you" mentality.
10:56 masak even the we/you distinction in there, which becomes increasingly clear as you read that text, is a little bothersome, if you ask me.
10:56 masak gfldex: it's not meant as learning material or documentation for the language. but as it happens, it's still the best resource for that, in early 2012.
10:57 masak jaffa4: I don't mean "culture" as in "Northern Europe". I mean "culture" as in "#perl6".
10:57 masak this is very much an online/Internet/IRC thing.
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10:58 jaffa4 I met this approach of helping you are advocating.
11:01 jaffa4 By the way, you answered.
11:03 masak I wasn't advocating the approach, I was explaining to you why you sometimes receive the answer "see S05" or a variation thereof.
11:03 masak I was highlighting the social mechanisms behind such an answer.
11:04 jaffa4 I thought some else was behind it, not this.
11:04 masak ooc, what did you think was behind it?
11:04 jaffa4 "I have no time for this.."
11:06 masak oh, that's probably part of it.
11:06 masak something like "I learned this from reading S05, so why couldn't you do the same?"
11:07 masak it boils down to the same thing. the feeling that some questions are unwarranted because they're easy to find answers to, if you would just bother to look in the right place.
11:15 masak again, I'm not taking sides.
11:17 jaffa4 ok
11:19 Woodi allo
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11:20 masak Woodi! \o/
11:21 Woodi but in Unix and around and "use man pages" is so _the best_ answer. it's like looking for what '-x' means for 'command' and then you discover new, big and unknown universe...
11:22 Woodi it like this with Perl6 in many cases
11:23 Woodi just wanted to catch tadzik to ask about Oslo but something came up in bakery for Saterday...
11:24 masak you have a bakery?
11:24 Woodi family have :)
11:24 masak awesome.
11:25 Woodi not bad. and sweet :)
11:25 brrt oh, btw
11:25 brrt using perl 6 - i'd like to create an epub if that was ok.. and I'd like to create that using perl6
11:25 masak go for it.
11:25 brrt i just need ZIP support :-)
11:26 brrt which i could write myself, but which will take time
11:26 brrt and, specifically
11:26 brrt I need a pack() unpack() replacement for
11:26 masak maybe be pragmatic and do qx[zip]
11:28 brrt masak: could not parse that
11:28 brrt whats qx?
11:29 masak shell command.
11:29 brrt that could work
11:29 brrt :-)
11:30 masak in that vein, either run() or shell() (or both) are available, too.
11:30 masak and might be more idiomatic than qx[] if you aren't interested in the output.
11:30 Woodi but using C library from Perl6 should be possible now
11:31 brrt any good xml handling libraries arround?
11:31 timotimo use regex for xml for great win
11:33 moritz jaffa4: once you've found out what the difference between regex, token and rules is, feel free to contribute it to https://github.com/perl6/faq/
11:34 moritz good documentation comes from people writing the documentation, not from wishing there was one
11:34 brrt yeah, that'll work :-) anyway, i'll figure it out
11:34 brrt thanks
11:34 * brrt has to go now, study
11:39 * masak sure wishes there were p6<->C bindings to a good XML, so that he could do DOM/SAX/XSLT/XPath in Perl 6
11:39 arnsholt Have you looked at the feasability of binding to libxml with zavolaj?
11:41 masak no.
11:41 masak maybe I should.
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11:56 * masak wishes he woin't so busy
11:59 sjn masak: no worries, only a few more days, and you can have a relaxing weekend in Oslo :)
11:59 moritz I thought we were supposed to hack, not relax :-)
12:00 sjn stressful hacking? o_O
12:00 * masak .oO( we're supposed to rehax )
12:00 masak sjn: yes, I'm counting on winding down in Oslo. that doesn't prevent me from being wound up now :/
12:01 sjn well, I can always ask krunen to bring drum he uses to keep the rowing slaves on his boat in tact. :)
12:01 moritz :-)
12:01 * masak .oO( 1 commit per beat )
12:08 jaffa4 r : sub postfix:<!> is equiv:<++> ( Int $x ) {}
12:08 jaffa4 r: sub postfix:<!> is equiv:<++> ( Int $x ) {}
12:08 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/nwHPk3rvbf:1␤»
12:08 jaffa4 r: sub postfix:<!> is equiv:<++> ( Int $x ) { return 2;}
12:08 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/_2QD8e2zjM:1␤»
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12:12 tadzik Woodi: 'sup?
12:13 Woodi allo tadzik
12:14 Woodi can't go Oslo this year/week, need to repair something here
12:17 Woodi but looking on subject for hack, few was meta-perl-like and I would like to add (not sub I hope) few thinks...
12:19 masak "meta-perl-like"?
12:19 Woodi need to sit and write yet
12:19 Woodi marketing and other not technical :)
12:20 Woodi not quite technikal :)
12:21 Woodi nvm for now. but also no free, relaxing time for now :)
12:22 masak sjn++ seems to want us to think about the non-technical bits.
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12:29 sjn masak: well, the non-technical bits have a very strong base in the technical bits :)
12:30 sjn so we'll get to do both :)
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12:33 masak *nod*
12:34 Woodi sjn: you organize impraza ?
12:36 Woodi becouse I remember I mentioned one day pizza for p6 developers, would to so something about this if possible :)
12:36 sjn Woodi: I don't know the word "impraza" :-/
12:36 * sjn organizes this weekend's hackathon in Oslo
12:36 moritz phenny: "impraza"?
12:36 phenny moritz: "impraza" (it to en, translate.google.com)
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12:37 Woodi hmm, sec
12:38 Woodi festival or meeting with friends, or general for picnik like time :)
12:38 jaffa4 sjn: What are you going to do?
12:39 * Woodi realy need to go to some not text only display :)
12:40 masak phenny: pl en "impraza"?
12:40 phenny masak: "impraza" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
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12:42 Woodi sjn: your mail is on kaizendo ?
12:42 felher moritz: i tried to rewrite everything on True/Die which caused a lot of spectest to fail. I then tried everything with True/Failure which doesn't cause any spectest to fail. Also, i searched a bit in the specs. A few of the IO-Functions are spec'ed and those are spec'ed to return True/Failure. Maybe we should keep on that way?
12:42 sjn Woodi: sjn@pvv.org is fine
12:42 Woodi ook
12:42 sjn the kaizendo mail ends up there anyway :)
12:43 moritz felher: well, for now True/Failure is more risky, because our Failures don't explode in sink/void context
12:43 moritz felher: which is why I'd prefer True/die until that issue is resolved
12:48 sjn jaffa4: at the hackathon? mostly see if I can help someone with something :)
12:48 masak sjn: you can help me with macros!
12:48 sjn jaffa4: also, trying to get some stuff done wrt. how to make Perl 6 easier to pick up
12:49 jaffa4 I have to imagine a big rooom with lot of computers.. where people sit in pairss.
12:49 jaffa4 or alone
12:49 sjn jaffa4: the venue is a bunch of meeting rooms and classrooms
12:50 sjn so we get to choose where to sit :)
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12:50 tadzik phenny: "impreza"?
12:50 phenny tadzik: "event" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
12:50 masak oh!
12:50 masak tadzik++
12:50 sjn that makes more sense :)
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12:52 jaffa4 everybody brings his laptop style or there are computers already.
12:52 moritz laptops
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12:54 sjn laptop, that have been prepared with everything that's necessary to get stuff done :)
12:54 felher moritz: i see :)
12:54 * moritz dearly hopes so
12:54 sjn spending time at a hackathon on setting up your computer, is fail.
12:54 moritz spending time at a hackathon on writing slides is also fail
12:54 * moritz has done that too
12:55 felher moritz: okay. So feel free give your opinions https://gist.github.com/2405788 whenever you have time :)
12:55 moritz r: say 7.base(8)
12:55 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«7␤»
12:56 moritz r: say 7.fmt("%03o")
12:56 p6eval rakudo 424936: OUTPUT«007␤»
12:56 moritz felher: that might be better to get at least 3 octal digits, as unix folks are used to
12:56 felher moritz: oh, nice. Yes, surely an improvment :)
12:57 felher +e
12:58 moritz felher: apart from that it looks very nice
12:59 moritz actually, even as it is now it's worth applying, but if you want to polish first, I'll wait for it
13:00 felher moritz: yes, i will at least change it to use fmt instead of base :)
13:00 felher moritz: can we expect everybody to think the mode is given in octal or should i keep the prefix '0o'?
13:01 moritz felher: keep 0o for now
13:01 moritz if people complain, we can still remove it
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13:04 [Coke] we have no rakudo compiler releases allocated after this week.
13:04 [Coke] so, please pick a month and put your name down. (docs/rel*)
13:04 jnthn oh noes, does that mean this is the last release?!?!
13:04 [Coke] thanks!
13:05 jnthn plz sign up, folks ;-)
13:05 [Coke] jnthn: aye. it better be a good one.
13:06 masak yeah, let's see some new names on the list.
13:06 masak show how much you love Rakudo :)
13:06 jaffa4 IS there a way to specify priority when overloading operands? (I found is tighter does not seem to be working)
13:07 moritz is tighter works with niecza
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: b403135 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: allocate a release name.
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b4031355bf
13:07 moritz no support for that in rakudo yet
13:07 [Coke] hey, sorear you wanna do a rakudo release? ;)
13:11 dalek rakudo/nom: 95a6d8c | moritz++ | docs/ (2 files):
13:11 dalek rakudo/nom: update changelog and release announcement a bit
13:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/95a6d8c310
13:12 masak surely Rakudo isn't so short on release managers that they try to enlist sorear now...? :P
13:12 felher moritz: okay, i updated the gist to use your fmt-idea. If you apply it, what about the spectest that will fail because of that?
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13:13 moritz felher: I can take care of them
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13:14 felher moritz: okay then. If you want a list of spectest that fail i'm currently spectesting and creating a log.
13:15 moritz felher: great
13:16 moritz I just noticed something odd
13:16 moritz once we have a sink context,  try function_that_fails; will die
13:17 * masak &
13:17 moritz try won't react to the failure, return the return value of the function, and is then evaluated in sink context => boom
13:20 dalek rakudo/nom: b401415 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2012.04:
13:20 dalek rakudo/nom: [announce] note two incompatible changes in the release announcement
13:20 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b401415d11
13:21 moritz I'll leave the rest of the announcement fiddling to [Coke]++
13:23 jaffa4 moritz:  not for me
13:26 [Coke] moritz++ for those bits.
13:32 felher moritz: i added a complete 'make spectest' log to my gist
13:36 moritz felher: thanks. Just 4 files, not too bad
13:36 * felher &afk
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13:46 * jnthn smiles as he uses Perl to apply refactors to a C# codebase :)
13:47 moritz :-)
13:48 moritz I think I have the spectests sorted out, but running another pass just to be sure
13:49 moritz most of it was Test::Util dieing on failed unlink()
13:49 jnthn I'll try and look at my require.t bustage.
13:49 jnthn Should have chance this evening.
13:49 jaffa4 jnthn: what do you use to refactor?
13:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 36bbb40 | (Felix Herrmann)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
13:52 dalek rakudo/nom: add a few typed IO exceptions
13:52 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:52 dalek rakudo/nom: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
13:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/36bbb4035c
13:52 dalek roast: 84b3895 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
13:52 dalek roast: [IO] handle dying unlink and mkdir
13:52 dalek roast:
13:52 dalek roast: Rakudo now throws exceptions for failed &unlink and &mkdir calls.
13:52 dalek roast: This is a deliberate deviation from the existing tests (and maybe spec),
13:52 dalek roast: because we don't have sink context yet, which leads to failures silently
13:52 dalek roast: being ignored.
13:52 dalek roast:
13:52 dalek roast: This commit fudges two tests for rakudo, and makes Test::Util happy again.
13:52 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/84b3895ce1
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13:59 jnthn jaffa4: Regexes :P The transform I wanted to apply was extrmely mechanical.
13:59 jnthn (Basically, API changes as part of unifying two MVP frameworks.)
14:04 [Coke] MVP?
14:05 jnthn Model View Presenter
14:14 sjn !seen pmichaud
14:14 sjn seen pmichaud
14:14 aloha pmichaud was last seen in #perl6 5 days 23 hours ago saying "kthx".
14:14 sjn right
14:15 att joined #perl6
14:17 * [Coke] reads again that YAPC::NA::2012's hackathon is sold olt.
14:17 [Coke] *sold out
14:18 moritz a hackathon can be sold out?
14:18 [Coke] jnthn: ... is that the same thing as MVC?
14:18 [Coke] moritz: http://blogs.perl.org/users/jt_smi​th/2012/04/hackathon-sold-out.html
14:19 sjn moritz: yep, if there's limited space, and people are willing to pay for being there :)
14:19 jnthn [Coke]: No, though they're in the same niche.
14:19 jnthn (e.g. both are design patterns for factoring UIs)
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14:41 alester What branch in rakudo/rakudo is the one I should base work on?  The equivalent of master?  Is it "nom"?  And if so, what does "nom" mean?
14:41 tadzik nom
14:41 tadzik new object model
14:41 tadzik it's the default branch
14:41 alester OK
14:42 alester There were some tickets that cmae through for quieting compiler warnings, and I was going to go after them.
14:42 moritz \o/
14:42 PerlJam alester++
14:45 alester I'm sort of responsible for them anywya, if Rakudo uses Parrot's GCC flags.
14:45 jnthn Yeah, it does.
14:45 jnthn Apparently the "thingy returns an aggregate" one is quite noisy on GCC
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14:45 jnthn Though that's when compiling nqp, not Rakudo itself.
14:45 alester Can someone point me at the current instructions for building Rakudo?
14:45 prammer joined #perl6
14:45 moritz (though note that the warnings come from clang in the case of these tickets)
14:45 jnthn ah
14:46 moritz alester: it's in the README, or on http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
14:46 alester That was too easy.
14:46 alester We should have the build instructions harder to find, like I assumed they were.
14:46 moritz I'll work on it :-)
14:47 benabik alester: You probably want to build NQP separately, rather than using --gen-nqp.
14:47 benabik I find it's much easier to handle it that way.
14:47 alester How does one do that?
14:47 * jnthn uses the --gen stuff and finds it easy to handle :)
14:47 benabik (For development.  For users the --gen- options are awesome)
14:47 jnthn alester: --gen-parrot will build Parrot and NQP from git for you.
14:48 moritz in nqp directory,  perl Configure.pl --with-parrot=$path/to/your/bin/parrot
14:48 moritz but I disagree with benabik, just use the --gen- options for now
14:48 * benabik does sometimes like doing things the hard way.
14:48 alester If I build my own parrot outside of Rakudo, and install that, then will Rakudo use Parrot's GCC flags somehow?
14:49 tadzik yes
14:49 alester Because the way I build Parrot is even more jacked up with warnings than a standard Parrot build.
14:49 tadzik it gets them from parrot_config I suppose
14:49 benabik alester: It grabs info from parrot_config
14:49 alester ok
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14:49 alester I build with GCC 4.8 from the dev snapshots.
14:50 alester Latest add in there: --warn-unnecessary-casts (or something like that)
14:50 fsergot Hello! o/
14:50 alester Got to clean up lots of goodness because of that.
14:50 tadzik hey fsergot
14:50 jnthn alester: ooc, does it warn about ones that a C++ compiler would need to have in there?
14:50 jnthn (not that I really care that my C is also valid C++, I'm just being curious)
14:51 alester It's a C++-only flag, as I recall.
14:51 alester I build my parrot with both g++ and gcc
14:51 alester g++ is typically more stringnet, but there are things that are gcc-only, too.
14:52 alester Basically, I'm using gcc/g++ as static analysis tool more than code generation. :)
14:57 jnthn ah :)
14:57 * jnthn is aware that there are places that C doesn't care for casts, but C++ wants them
14:58 jnthn Anyway, alester++ for working on warning cleanup
14:58 jnthn Time to decommute here. bbl
14:59 tadzik the worst thing is that you can't name a variable "new" ;)
14:59 moritz that's not so easy in p6 either :-)
15:00 moritz n: my \new = 3; say new
15:00 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«3␤»
15:00 moritz n: my \new = 3; new = 5; say new
15:00 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: assigning to readonly value␤  at /tmp/ZNLfxMBiIG line 0 (mainline @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3839 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (module-CORE @ 65) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/li…
15:00 moritz n: my \new = 3; new := 5; say new
15:00 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«5␤»
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15:21 alester jnthn: What I've been finding in Parrot is casts from size_t to size_t.
15:21 alester For example.
15:22 thou joined #perl6
15:24 alester It mostly just seems like detritus of things that were once necessary but no longer is.
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15:49 TimToady I suspect prefix:<|> should supply a list context to its argument so that 1..10 flattens without the need for .list
15:51 cxreg joined #perl6
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15:56 * jnthn home
15:56 jnthn TimToady: If it supplies a list context, what about |$c and |%h ?
15:57 jnthn (Answer: we'll end up passing only the list part of the capture, and positionally pass the pairs of the hash...or so it seems to me...)
15:58 TimToady I see that
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15:59 jnthn Don't disagree with the goal of 1..10 flattening.
15:59 jnthn Just think it's not as simple as list context.
15:59 TimToady nodnod
15:59 jnthn In Rakudo I handle | in argument lists syntactically at the moment.
16:00 jnthn (Since flatten flags need setting.)
16:00 jnthn In fact, I find it hard to imagine an implementation that doesn't have to flag the flattening somehow.
16:01 TimToady yes, it's rather cheaty wrt captures
16:03 TimToady it's another one of those almost-eval escape-hatch things
16:03 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
16:03 TimToady howdydoo
16:05 pmichaud well, I suspect that |$c shouldn't flatten, because of the $
16:05 TimToady then what is the point of using it?
16:05 jnthn hi, pmichaud :)
16:05 pmichaud oh, perhaps I misunderstood.  likely, since I'm definitely not anywhere close to 100% today
16:05 TimToady it's obviously meant to be a deref of some sort
16:06 pmichaud yeah, that makes sense.  nm.
16:06 TimToady yes, well, mornings happen... :/
16:06 * pmichaud <-- fighting allergies and losing
16:08 jnthn pmichaud: Ouch :(
16:08 * TimToady <-- dueling hay fever and spring fever...or maybe they're cooperating...
16:08 jnthn TimToady: Ouch :(
16:09 uvtc TimToady, is the [cheat sheet](https://raw.github.com/perl6/mu/master​/docs/Perl6/Cheatsheet/cheatsheet.txt) current?
16:09 TimToady course, doing taxes doesn't help either...
16:09 uvtc I don't see gather/take in there.
16:09 TimToady uvtc: pretty much; statement prefixes like gather didn't make the cut
16:10 uvtc TimToady, how about [syntax for forcing context](http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/pe​rl-5-to-6/06-contexts.html)?
16:10 uvtc ~ ? + - $( ) @( ) ...
16:10 TimToady those all still work
16:11 uvtc No, I mean, I was looking for them in the cheat sheet but didn't see them ...
16:11 TimToady there has to be *some* whitespace on the page :)
16:12 TimToady $() and @() are there on the right
16:12 uvtc Clojure has a pretty amazing cheat sheet ... with a version in the wings that has nice pop-up mini-docs for each of the items in the cheat sheet:
16:13 uvtc http://jafingerhut.github.com/cheatsheet-cl​j-1.3/cheatsheet-tiptip-cdocs-summary.html
16:13 TimToady and + - ~ are listed in the precedence table
16:13 pmichaud fortunately I got taxes out of the way weeks ago
16:14 TimToady well, we were putting it off because we owe a lot this year, due to paying for house refurb from stock options
16:15 TimToady I think maybe the IRS sorts their acceptance list into priority of how much money is being paid, because they accepted our returns last night in a couple hours rather than days
16:16 machine2 joined #perl6
16:16 TimToady uvtc: maybe you should do a Clojure backend for Perl 6 :D
16:17 uvtc TimToady, sorry, I'm not seeing those operators for forcing context in the "operator precedence" section of the cheat sheet. If they are there, I'm expecting to see a line like: "context: ~ ? + - $() @() %() @@()"
16:17 skids joined #perl6
16:18 TimToady "context" is not a precedence level, look for the line that starts "unary"
16:20 uvtc If those operators (that syntax?) for forcing context are not a precedence level, why did you write above "and + - ~ are listed in the precedence table"?
16:21 uvtc TimToady, re a Clojure backend for Perl 6, Clojure (well, "ClojureJVM") has a backend of its own: the JVM. And Perl 6 has got Niecza, of course.
16:21 TimToady why do you insist on having a category for "forcing context"?  Everything forces context...
16:22 uvtc TimToady, I was just reading a Perl 6 snippet somewhere and saw "-$foo" and thought, "oh, hm, what context does that thingy force again?", and then thought, "oh, I'll check the cheat sheet". That's all. I don't mean to insist. :)
16:23 jaldhar joined #perl6
16:24 TimToady compared to Perl 5, the notion of context is rather more nebulous, organic, functional, and lazy in Perl 6
16:25 kaleem joined #perl6
16:25 TimToady on some semantic level, a context is just a coercer that can do the identity transformation when no coercion is necessary
16:26 TimToady the + in +42 is a no-op, really
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16:28 uvtc TimToady, I don't know what you mean by "identity transformation".
16:28 TimToady in +'42' it's really doing something, but in either case, it can be viewed as a mere function (albiet a multi)
16:28 TimToady I mean it's a no-op
16:28 uvtc Ah. Ok.
16:28 TimToady it just returns what you passed it, if it doesn't need to change it
16:29 TimToady just as a list in list context is in no need of additional listification
16:30 uvtc Perl 6 has lazy lists, correct? If so, how do I tell Perl 6 that I want it to realize/unlazify the list?
16:30 TimToady the closest things in Perl 6 to real contexts are the various ways of binding lists to parameters
16:30 TimToady you can use eager for that
16:31 uvtc (Sorry if that's off the main topic being discussed presently ... it seemed vaguely related)
16:31 TimToady or you can just read the whole list and do something with it :)
16:31 uvtc Ah. Right. :)
16:31 TimToady eager() just does that then returns it for its "do something"
16:32 TimToady effectively, anyway, though any given implementation might cheat in various ways
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16:46 TimToady moritz: re try failure(), in S04:1026 we have set_outer_caller's_bang(@handled) unless @unhandled; which should probably also force the return value to Nil when this CATCH's outer scope is going to be the unwind target
16:47 pmichaud yay, I get to head to the p6 patterns hackathon in oslo tomorrow!  Then I read this:  http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/17/travel/cana​da-disoriented-pilot/index.html?hpt=hp_t2   (Pilot sends plane into dive after mistaking Venus for oncoming plane)
16:48 TimToady well, this happens periodically
16:48 PerlJam pmichaud: uncanny timing ... Gary was just in my office asking about you  :)
16:48 pmichaud Hi Gary!
16:49 pmichaud (fortunately, the pilot managed to avoid hitting Venus.)
16:49 jnthn ...Venus?! :)
16:49 TimToady good thing he didn't climb instead
16:49 jnthn That woulda been a long climb to avoid...
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17:12 sorear good * #perl6
17:15 fsergot sorear: o/
17:16 sorear moritz: the error message says that Cursor doesn't do/is pg
17:16 sorear moritz: <pg::S> becomes $c.pg::S(), and at the time I stole that syntax from Rakudo, it was checking for MRO presense of pg in $c
17:22 moritz sorear: "Cannot dispatch to a method on pg because it is not inherited or done by Cursor"
17:22 moritz I read that as 'pg !~~ Cursor'
17:22 moritz and that's simply wrong
17:22 fsergot nom: say $*IN.^methods.perl
17:22 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«(method open(IO , Any , Mu %_!) { ... }, method close(IO , Mu %_!) { ... }, method eof(IO , Mu %_!) { ... }, method get(IO , Mu %_!) { ... }, method getc(IO , Mu %_!) { ... }, method lines(IO , Any $limit = { ... }, Mu %_!) { ... }, method read(IO:D , Cool:D $bytes…
17:23 moritz nom: say ~$*IN.^method
17:23 fsergot nom: say $*IN.^methods
17:23 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«Method 'method' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤  in method dispatch:<.^> at src/gen/CORE.setting:784␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/5NaImo1KBJ:1␤␤»
17:23 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«open close eof get getc lines read seek tell write opened print slurp d e f l r s t w x z copy chmod say <anon> <anon> <anon>␤»
17:23 fsergot Why does $*IN have print method?
17:23 benabik nom: $*IN.print('hi')
17:23 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«FileHandle is not opened for writing␤  in method print at src/gen/CORE.setting:6637␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/12_tWTtt57:1␤␤»
17:23 moritz fsergot: because it's the saem class as $*OUT
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17:24 benabik nom: $*IN.WHAT.say
17:24 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«IO()␤»
17:24 moritz fsergot: and it would be more confusing if the IO objects didn't have the methods, than the current error message
17:24 fsergot Is there a meaning to write to $*IN
17:24 fsergot ?
17:24 fsergot moritz: Oh, ok. :)
17:26 fsergot Thanks. :)
17:27 sorear moritz: it's a passive sentence.  Would it be clearer to you if it said "because Cursor does not inherit or do pg"?
17:29 moritz sorear: it would be clearer, but doesn't make any sense to me either
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17:29 moritz because it would mean you can't inject subclasses of Cursor anywhere
17:30 sorear moritz: $c is an object of type Cursor, not an object of type pg
17:30 sorear so when you say $c.pg::S(), you're trying to call a method that simply doesn't exist on $c
17:30 moritz sorear: but the error message doesn't talk about $c, it talks about pg
17:31 sorear The part of the system that generates that error message doesn't know the names of variables
17:31 TimToady p5 would probably say "Can't locate method S via pg"
17:32 moritz though of course the better fix would be to simply parse it as pg.S
17:32 moritz as rakudo does today
17:33 sorear I don't understand how that works
17:36 moritz it parses anything of the form <name> [ '::' <name> ]+ as a special lookup
17:36 moritz if the full name is a Grammar, it calls ThatGrammar.TOP
17:37 moritz otherwise it takes the last of the names as the method name, and calls it on the rest of the name, taken as a package name
17:37 jnthn moritz: Er, it always takes the last component as the rule name, iirc.
17:37 moritz it does?
17:37 jnthn I think that's how I implemented it.
17:38 jnthn sorear: If it helps, it's using just about the same mechanism LANG does for langauge switching.
17:38 moritz r: grammar A::B { token TOP { foo } }; say 'foo' ~~  /<A::B>/
17:38 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«Method '!cursor_init' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:143␤  in method OTHERGRAMMAR at src/gen/CORE.setting:8784␤  in regex <anon> at /tmp/m8OutHTDrZ:1␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:8819␤  in block <an…
17:38 moritz hm, right
17:38 moritz r: grammar A::B { token TOP { foo } }; say 'foo' ~~  /<A::B::TOP>/
17:38 p6eval rakudo 36bbb4: OUTPUT«=> <foo>␤ A::B::TOP => <foo>␤␤»
17:38 jnthn moritz: I mean, we can make it work that way easy enough.
17:38 jnthn moritz: It just ain't how it currently is.
17:38 moritz ok
17:38 moritz probably needs a spec clarification
17:39 jnthn And I'm not aware of any spec or tests that expect it to be that way.
17:43 sorear jnthn: oh, so it actually switches language?
17:43 sorear <foo::bar> in Rakudo works like STD expects [ :lang(foo) <bar> ]?  I can manage that
17:44 jnthn sorear: yeah, basically that
17:45 sorear jnthn: Incidentally, I'd rather not do any Rakudo releases just now ... :D
17:45 jnthn Though pretty sure we don't ahve the :lang sugar for doing it
17:45 jnthn But it's how I'd expect to implement :lang too
17:46 sorear do you know of any tests for the <foo::bar> behavior?
17:47 jnthn I know we run some
17:47 jnthn I forget where they are
17:47 jnthn gotta afk for 10, can prolly find 'em when I'm back
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18:11 jnthn sorear: S05-grammar/namespace.t has one. It's todo'd for niecza.
18:12 jnthn I recall some others, but don't see 'em right off.
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18:30 lichtkind hai
18:30 phenny lichtkind: 04:50Z <raiph> tell lichtkind i chatted with uvtc. i agreed to do the lookup-to-index (b2a) etc. links to complete his conversion to Pandoc-Markdown. Then we can use that instead of socialtext or raw html.
18:30 phenny lichtkind: 04:51Z <raiph> tell lichtkind if we go this route (please!) we'll want moritz to create a perl6 repo from http://www.unexpected-vortice​s.com/temp/tablet-docs.tar.gz (as published at http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/pe​rl-6/temp-tablets/introduction.html) and stick to editing that repo.
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18:42 uvtc Where can I find the documention on the Test module. Specifically, docs on how to use Test?
18:43 PerlJam uvtc: Read the code?
18:44 PerlJam uvtc: look at Test::More (perl 5 module) for ideas and inspiration?
18:44 PerlJam uvtc: sorry I don't have any good answers.
18:44 PerlJam uvtc: Look at existing code that uses Test.pm?
18:44 uvtc Does P6's Test mimic P5's Test::More?
18:44 PerlJam uvtc: it doesn't mimic exactly, but it's darn close
18:44 uvtc Ok, thanks, PerlJam.
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19:00 uvtc I see that, at [the module directory](http://modules.perl6.org/) for documentation on creating your own modules, there's a link to tadzik's blog post from a little while back. I think that modules.perl6.org should have its own article on contributing modules. Perhaps this:
19:00 uvtc http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/p​erl-6/create-distribute-modules.html
19:01 uvtc The source of that is at the same url, just change .html to .txt.
19:01 uvtc There may be errors in it. If so,
19:01 uvtc please let me know.
19:01 uvtc Feel free to take that and use it at modules.perl6.org, if you think it would be of use.
19:02 uvtc (of course, if using, please remove the blockquote near the top)
19:02 lichtkind uvtc: ping
19:03 uvtc hi lichtkind.
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19:04 jnthn Hmm....where has dalek got to?
19:05 jnthn Anyway, I just pushed a fix for the require.t regression I accidentally the other day.
19:08 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:10 [Coke] O_o
19:10 lichtkind jnthn: cheers
19:12 jnthn o/ lichtkind
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19:15 lichtkind jnthn: im really in the mood to give you another microgrant :)
19:21 masak evening, #perl6
19:21 spider-mario \o
19:22 fsergot masak \o/
19:22 masak \o/
19:22 sorear hi and bye, masak
19:23 * masak $*IN, sorear $*OUT
19:25 uvtc phenny, tell moritz http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2012-04-17#i_5457320 -- took info from tadzik's post. Hoping that might be useful to have at perl6/modules.perl6.org.
19:25 phenny uvtc: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
19:27 fsergot sorear o/
19:33 masak http://twitter.com/dsyme/status/192251427094138880 # CS autopun
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19:35 [Coke] I don't get it.
19:36 lichtkind moritz: ping
19:36 [Coke] but tht's ok.
19:37 vlixes joined #perl6
19:37 masak [Coke]: I'm not expert at coinduction, but it essentially means infinitely unfoldable cursors.
19:38 PerlJam I guess I'm starting to get to that age now.
19:39 PerlJam Usually when I see a wikipedia article that starts with "In computer science ..."  I've at least heard the term before and had at least some vague idea what it was.
19:39 PerlJam not so for coinduction.
19:40 benabik joined #perl6
19:40 masak PerlJam: do you have the sense that you've applied the concept indirectly without knowing what it was called?
19:41 PerlJam yes ... ish
19:41 masak :)
19:42 PerlJam Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen the term before, but it's not "connected" in my brain.
19:43 uvtc It should be spelled co-induction (with the hyphen), IMO. I first thought it must have something to do with coins. :)
19:44 ggoebel joined #perl6
19:44 masak cöinduction :P
19:44 japhb I can tell I'm getting old when somebody brings up a pattern, data structure, algorithm, etc. that I've never heard of, and I look it up on Wikipedia only to find it's been around long enough to get its own driver's license -- and that's still *AFTER* I graduated from college.
19:44 uvtc abduction, reduction, coinduction
19:44 [Coke] doesn't help that I didn't study CS, per se.
19:45 PerlJam japhb: It only gets worse as you get older ...  "That sounds vaguely familiar..."  [later you realize that you wrote your thesis on the topic]    ;-)
19:45 japhb *ouch*
19:45 uvtc hahaha
19:45 japhb I had that happen with a senior thesis a couple weeks ago, actually.  Damn.
19:46 mdupont joined #perl6
19:46 [Coke] huh. I also have no thesis. perhaps I'm hanging out in the wrong channel. ;)
19:46 PerlJam [Coke]: It actually might help.  The older I get, the less surprised I am that people come at CS concepts from some non-CS direction.
19:46 japhb [Coke], make up a thesis!  Most pundits do ...
19:46 [Coke] PerlJam: it was computer systems engineering so it's not THAT far off. ;)
19:47 [Coke] japhb: I briefly considered earlier this year going back for a master's or PHD. I just don't have the time.
19:47 [Coke] (sad, given that I could probably get work to pay for it!)
19:47 PerlJam [Coke]: that's even better!  I still have a hard time finding the science in computer science.
19:47 PerlJam or computing science if you prefer
19:48 japhb PerlJam, when I was first deciding what to eventually take in college, I couldn't pick "CS" because that wasn't really an available major at more than a few colleges.  Then thankfully that changed before I had to start applying, but my mother thought I was really lowering my sights when I told her I was no longer planning to double major in Math and Physics.
19:48 PerlJam [Coke]: I used to be a "jack of all trades, master of none"  ... then I got a master's degree in computer science :)
19:48 japhb PerlJam, so ... no change then?  ;-)
19:49 PerlJam heh
19:49 PerlJam japhb: btw, I tend to agree with your mother ;)
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19:50 japhb Well, she may have had a point ... but I sure enjoyed myself more than I probably would have otherwise.
19:51 japhb I only decided against a minor in Physics because of a class that I could tell from the course description was likely to cause me to go rather insane.
19:52 japhb (which was of course required, as far as I could tell, as a form of hazing)
19:52 PerlJam insanity and confusion are natural human states
19:53 huf they're the only state we can be in :)
19:54 japhb .oO( We're just insane enough to believe we're not confused *all* of the time ... )
19:54 huf i think the insanity sometimes gets lost in the confusion and vice versa
19:58 masak I consider hanging around here part of my rehabilitation from not having chosen a CS major.
19:59 jnthn tadzik: I have this memory of you giving me a tarball with a set of modules that caused some crash/problem. Alas, I've misplaced it...searching the irclogs ain't helping so far either. Don't suppose you have it?
19:59 japhb masak: I think you could switch the prefix before -habilitation and still have a valid statement.
20:00 japhb Perhaps 'de-'?  :-)
20:00 masak 'des-'? :P
20:00 jnthn tadzik: never mind, found it. :)
20:00 masak phenny: "deshabillé"?
20:00 phenny masak: "dishabille" (es to en, translate.google.com)
20:00 huf mis-?
20:01 masak oh, it's
20:01 masak phenny: "déshabillé"?
20:01 phenny masak: "undressed" (fr to en, translate.google.com)
20:02 japhb .oO( Mentally undressed )
20:02 japhb Naked brains!
20:03 ggoebel joined #perl6
20:03 geekosaur zombie bait?
20:06 japhb .oO( The Martians from Mars Attacks! would probably be the ultimate zombie bait )
20:09 masak I think you are being very vivo-centric, assuming that a zombie will care about nakedness in any shape or form. :)
20:10 japhb masak, well, naked in the sense of "no skull that might block the smell of those delicious brains"
20:11 japhb Or if you prefer, naked as in singularity.
20:15 * geekosaur was thinking the forer, no skull covering them
20:15 * geekosaur kannot tipe
20:17 masak interesting point.
20:17 masak the zombies I know from the "literature" usually don't mind there being a skull in the way.
20:18 sjohnson masak!
20:18 sjohnson how's it goin
20:19 thou joined #perl6
20:21 japhb masak: Yes, but I'm thinking, they would be drawn to naked brains from much farther away.  Unless it was the "life force" following subtype, in which case all bets are off.
20:24 japhb I'm clearly growing cynical as well.  I was thinking "Man, Duck Duck Go is getting really good" and that was immediately followed by "I wonder if they've gone evil yet?"
20:24 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:25 masak sjohnson: hi! going well. busy today and tomorrow, but then... Oslo. \o/
20:25 masak sjohnson: how're you?
20:26 sjohnson good.. i keep getting whacked by the proverbial bamboo stick on #perl
20:26 sjohnson but i'm starting to like it
20:26 sjohnson makes me realize how wrong i was about many p5 things
20:26 PerlJam sjohnson: kinky
20:26 sjohnson heh, wait till i start asking questions here
20:26 * masak .oO( sjohnson would like Singapore )
20:26 sjohnson my back will be bloody, raw, bruised and sore
20:26 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:27 masak glad to hear you're having fun learning. :) we all should.
20:28 PerlJam that's so true
20:28 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:28 sjohnson for sure
20:29 fgomez joined #perl6
20:29 sjohnson perl5 for me seems like unfathomable ocean
20:29 sjohnson i can't imagine taking on p6 (yet)
20:29 masak I'm not sure you need to think of it that way.
20:29 PerlJam p5 is the ocean, p6 is space?
20:30 masak both languages are big if you consider all the suburbs.
20:30 TimToady p5 is the atlantic, p6 is the pacific
20:30 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:30 PerlJam TimToady: p6 has a ring of fire and some volcanic activity?
20:30 masak like, Edument's Intermediate Perl (5) course is mostly about getting to CPAN, and then learning to use CPAN well.
20:30 cooper joined #perl6
20:31 masak PerlJam: hell yeah!
20:31 * masak it runs on geological time scales, though :/
20:31 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:31 TimToady not always; sometimes it'll make the earth move
20:32 masak er, s/ (.*) / .oO( $1 ) /
20:32 raiph joined #perl6
20:32 masak gee, that was a p5 regex but with p6 insignificant whitespace. I should stop typing.
20:32 lichtkind masak: do you have same rights as moritz?
20:33 PerlJam lichtkind: moritz and masak are twins!  Can't you see?
20:33 TimToady no, but he's got a wicket hook
20:33 masak no, he lives in Germany.
20:33 TimToady *wicked
20:33 PerlJam They're both and m<tab> away
20:33 PerlJam s/and/an/
20:33 lichtkind masak: i just ask to change the cron job script for the tablets
20:33 masak I consider moritz to be more righteous than me.
20:33 att joined #perl6
20:34 masak lichtkind: oh, I may have such rights, but tuits: no. sadly not.
20:34 masak thanks for the flattering implication, though.
20:34 PerlJam masak: so what rights to germans have that you do not?
20:35 jnthn The right to cheap beer.
20:35 TimToady cheap beer!
20:35 Araq ... puns ... all I see is puns ...
20:35 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:36 masak PerlJam: I'm not sure, actually. I'm not an expert at legal matters. but I'm pretty sure the rights differ somewhat.
20:37 * TimToady blames the pun control lobby
20:37 HarryS joined #perl6
20:37 FACEFOX joined #perl6
20:37 cooper joined #perl6
20:38 TimToady the lobby has two door, y'see, and sometimes the incoming puns cancel, and sometimes they reinforce...
20:39 * masak visualizes a ripple pattern of pun across the opposite Wall
20:39 masak "professor, these puns refuse to decohere!"
20:40 masak "just observe them until they do!"
20:41 TimToady *doors
20:42 [Coke] ooh, beer. I have some nice Hefe-Weiße waiting for me at home.
20:42 TimToady "Why do you try to remove the splinter from someone else's eye when you have a Max Planck in your own eye?"
20:42 [Coke] I see what you did there.
20:42 Araq a beer is definitely a good idea ...
20:43 PerlJam "a beer"?
20:43 [Coke] PerlJam: every journey starts with a single beer.
20:44 PerlJam .oO( I didn't know there was a such thing as a singular beer )
20:44 masak TimToady: I didn't see the Max Planck because of measurement error!
20:44 TimToady you have to get your beer atom from one or another of them
20:45 japhb .oO( Atomic-powered beer )
20:45 Araq "Paulaner Hefe-Weißbier -- naturtrüb", better PerlJam?
20:45 ggoebel joined #perl6
20:45 japhb .oO( "It's nuclear freakin' BEER!" )
20:45 TimToady japhb: not going to be allowed in Germany soon
20:45 japhb well played
20:46 masak there you go. diff'rent rites.
20:46 TimToady especially Down Under, where it's not the Rite of Spring
20:47 TimToady but they know a thing or two about beer atoms
20:48 * masak assumes the reference is http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096486/
20:49 TimToady yes, a close relative of Young Max Planck
20:49 japhb .oO( "What is the neutron cross section of a beer atom?  What, all of you know?  OK ... uh ... Bruce, how about you?" )
20:51 japhb Does beer made in a barn therefore have a higher neutron cross section?
20:51 TimToady made in the loft, it'd be higher
20:52 * TimToady should probably wander off before he does any more permanent damage...
20:52 TimToady afk &
20:53 masak japhb: :P
20:53 japhb I was waiting for that ....
20:53 * masak sat in on a nuclear physics course once, so he gets it
20:53 Araq TimToady: too late, I'm drunk by now
20:54 PerlJam he said *permanent* damage
20:54 jnthn tadzik: Good news: I understand the problem. Bad news: I dunno how to fix it yet.
20:55 tadzik uvtc: nice guidde you've got there; it should probably land on modules.perl6.org instead of my aged blog post
20:55 ggoebel joined #perl6
20:55 tadzik jnthn: yay! oh noes
20:55 japhb So how is it that jnthn "I've tried beer in several dozen countries" manage to come in with an actual on-topic comment?
20:56 lichtkind masak:  would you at least send us the cron file?
20:56 uvtc tadzik, Thanks. I'm hoping it's useful. Can you please look it over and let me know what errors it contains? I have not published any Perl 6 modules, so doubtless it contains errors.
20:57 uvtc tadzik, Yes, I had your blog post open in front of me while writing it.
20:57 jnthn japhb: Because I haven't tried beer in any country yet today? :)
20:57 tadzik uvtc: I'll take a closer look oncde I get back home
20:57 * tadzik ircing from the metro. Take that, masak! :P
20:58 uvtc tadzik, would appreciate it. Thanks. My email address is on my homepage (linked to at the top of the doc, in the blockquote).
20:58 jnthn tadzik: Clue: replacing return Foo::Request.new; with return GLOBAL::Foo::Request.new; makes it go away.
20:58 tadzik hmmm
20:58 jnthn tadzik: Meh, that just means your metro isn't burried far enough underground :P
20:59 jnthn tadzik: Anyway, now I understand why it's getting it wrong, I should be able to figure out a fix.
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21:00 japhb jnthn, that's just begging for a "series of tubes" joke ... which I would of course *never* stoop to ...
21:00 tadzik jnthn: nah, it's just my provider who guarantees 3g or even 4g in the metro
21:00 tadzik \o/
21:00 PerlJam japhb: now you've made #perl go down the tubes
21:00 PerlJam er, #perl6
21:01 japhb *ouch*
21:03 jnthn tadzik: Anyway, the issue is essentially that
21:03 jnthn module Foo::Bar;
21:03 jnthn use Foo;
21:03 uvtc left #perl6
21:03 jnthn Here, the first line creates a package Foo, and then installs a Bar in its .WHO
21:03 jnthn Then the "use Foo" actually brings in a class Foo
21:04 jnthn The global merger actually gets it right - we end up with Bar inside of the class Foo's .WHO, and GLOBAL::Foo points to the class.
21:04 tadzik cutw
21:04 jnthn The only problem is that we also have a Foo installed in the lexpad by "module Foo::Bar;"
21:04 jnthn Which doesn't get updated
21:05 jnthn Anyway, that's why Bailador::Request goes missing.
21:05 tadzik I see
21:05 jnthn GLOBAL::Bailador::Request, OTOH, is right there.
21:05 jnthn Took a little bit to work out...
21:06 jnthn Now I just gotta figure how to deal with it.
21:06 tadzik glad you've found it
21:06 [Coke] jnthn++
21:07 moritz \o
21:07 phenny moritz: 19:25Z <uvtc> tell moritz http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2012-04-17#i_5457320 -- took info from tadzik's post. Hoping that might be useful to have at perl6/modules.perl6.org.
21:07 jnthn hi moritz
21:07 jnthn moritz: Do we still have issues with pre-compilation of things like MiniDBI, or is it fine these days?
21:07 tadzik hello moritz
21:07 jnthn I know I fixed one issue in that space.
21:08 tadzik oh oh
21:08 * jnthn can test it if moritz doesn't have a "broken last I knew"
21:08 tadzik dunno about MiniDBI, but eg SVG::Plot segfaults when you use it precompiled
21:09 jnthn tadzik: With latest, after I fixed the over-serialization issues?
21:09 moritz it was still broken after that
21:09 moritz haven't tested it today though
21:09 jnthn moritz: Which one, SVG::Plot?
21:09 moritz both
21:10 jnthn Hm
21:10 jnthn Lemme see if I can reproduce...
21:10 jnthn (the bug)
21:13 tadzik mmm, sweet cold beer
21:14 tadzik jnthn: at least on GPW it was still broken
21:14 tadzik Where did dalek go?
21:15 jnthn Yeah, reproduced the segfault here
21:15 tadzik cool
21:17 fsergot 'night #perl6!
21:17 tadzik o/
21:19 zpmorgan joined #perl6
21:19 masak what fsergot said.
21:19 masak 'nyght
21:20 japhb o/
21:20 tadzik bye
21:20 tadzik bah, uvtc gone
21:21 jnthn o/
21:23 tadzik phenny: tell uvtc Few things: although there's actually no reason for having the project on github, I'm fine with recommending that :) I'd underline that it's recommended to write docs alongside the code itself, so the doc/ should be probably empty/nonexistent in 99% of the cases. Most people leave version : "*", and that's completely fine.
21:23 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when uvtc is around.
21:24 tadzik phenny: tell uvtc also, I'd note that the only things that are really necessary are either lib/ or bin/ and a META.info. Every other thing is completely optional. Aside from those it's great, way better than my blog post :)
21:24 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when uvtc is around.
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21:50 uvtc hi
21:50 phenny uvtc: 21:23Z <tadzik> tell uvtc Few things: although there's actually no reason for having the project on github, I'm fine with recommending that :) I'd underline that it's recommended to write docs alongside the code itself, so the doc/ should be probably empty/nonexistent in 99% of the cases. Most people leave version : "*", and that's completely fine.
21:50 phenny uvtc: 21:24Z <tadzik> tell uvtc also, I'd note that the only things that are really necessary are either lib/ or bin/ and a META.info. Every other thing is completely optional. Aside from those it's great, way better than my blog post :)
21:50 uvtc thanks phenny, you're the best. :)
21:55 tadzik :)
21:56 uvtc tadzik, I added something about git/github being recommended. I don't know how one would share Perl 6 modules without github.
21:56 uvtc tadzik, if there's a way, it's not included in this basic doc, I suppose.
21:58 uvtc What license would you recommend module distributors use if they have no other preference? I think it's wise to suggest that authors provide a license file.
21:58 tadzik uvtc: well, you can use any kind of git repo you want, as long as the source-url is correct
21:58 uvtc Ah. Ok. So git is required then. Good to know.
21:59 tadzik panda just clones whatever source-url points too. It could be gitorious as well, or whatever else
21:59 tadzik I expect one day we'll want to support hg too
21:59 tadzik about license, if you ask me personally I'd recommend MIT, but I think Perl Artistic is the way to go
21:59 uvtc Ok, but for now, it's git. Very good.
22:00 Araq left #perl6
22:00 uvtc Ah, I see that Rakudo uses Artistic License 2.
22:00 uvtc I'll add advice about that...
22:01 tadzik cool
22:01 tadzik It's time for me to take a sleep, I think. I'm looking forward to posting your guide tomorrow below the link to the module writing guide :)
22:01 tadzik good night for today o/
22:02 jnthn night, tadzik
22:02 uvtc added note about license. Thanks, tadzik
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22:14 lichtkind how to say thematically sorted in one word?
22:14 moritz grouped
22:15 lichtkind hai moritz
22:15 lichtkind you surely heard of our undertakings
22:15 moritz yes
22:15 lichtkind we need a change in the cronjob
22:15 moritz I know
22:15 lichtkind but just after i renamed the files
22:15 moritz but sick daughter takes priority
22:15 lichtkind understand
22:16 nif joined #perl6
22:17 lichtkind during next week willbe enough
22:22 jnthn ooh, my French Perl Workshop talk got accepted. Now I've gotta go!
22:23 eiro sure: i did it to be sure you'll join us :)
22:24 eiro 'night all
22:25 lichtkind good night
22:25 localhost joined #perl6
22:27 moritz ok, tablets are up
22:28 lichtkind no :)
22:28 moritz yes
22:28 moritz just no index.html
22:28 lichtkind moritz: what you mean by that?
22:28 lichtkind moritz: thats one of the reasons why i rename currently
22:29 uvtc Nice. I see them.
22:29 lichtkind grouped was very good recommenation
22:29 lichtkind moritz++
22:29 moritz oh, one thing about the URLs
22:29 lichtkind moritz++ and this one for moving
22:29 moritz you can link to /io instead of /io.html
22:30 uvtc Maybe have index.html redirect to introduction.html
22:30 lichtkind to
22:30 lichtkind i renamed toc to index
22:30 lichtkind its meant to be the entry point
22:31 lichtkind and itintro is  a preface which many dont like to read :)
22:33 jnthn sleep &
22:33 lichtkind jnthn: good dreams
22:34 lichtkind moritz: does the cron no run the python?
22:34 moritz it does
22:36 lichtkind moritz: great
22:36 lichtkind uvtc: one of the main reasons i try to go with markdown is that we can convert to anything
22:37 lichtkind moritz: and does it a cleanup i mean delete old files?
22:37 uvtc lichtkind, Right. Pandoc can convert to lots of other formats.
22:37 moritz lichtkind: no
22:37 moritz but I can change that if you want
22:37 lichtkind moritz: allright one manual sweep tomorrow would be enough
22:40 moritz https://gist.github.com/2409568 that's the update script, now with cleanup
22:40 * moritz -> sleep
22:43 uvtc phenny, tell tadzik Oh, I had the "name" field in the META.info file wrong --- it's supposed to be a module name, not the project name. Corrected.
22:43 phenny uvtc: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
22:44 lichtkind moritz: good night
22:45 lichtkind uvtc: still around?
22:46 uvtc hi
22:46 lichtkind https://github.com/perl6/tablets/tree/master/docs
22:46 lichtkind can you live with that?
22:47 lichtkind i think people can better understand content and better navigate in a dir with these names
22:47 lichtkind i also updated nov
22:47 lichtkind _nav
22:47 uvtc Haha. :) It's, of course, not my project. I just did the translation to pandoc-markdown.
22:48 uvtc I previously kept the names short, just because they were easier to type and lead to shorter urls. :)
22:49 uvtc So, how often does the cron task run that updates tablets.perl6.org?
22:49 lichtkind last time it was 5 min
22:50 lichtkind allright let me rephrase
22:50 lichtkind do you like the new namings
22:50 uvtc Oh, sure, looks nice.
22:51 lichtkind and i liked you put the quotes in boxes
22:51 lichtkind sure colors are not optimal
22:51 lichtkind but thats how i wanted it
22:52 uvtc low-contrast :)
22:52 lichtkind yes
22:54 uvtc Hm. You said it updated 5 minutes ago, but I still don't see a tablets.perl6.org/index.html .
22:54 lichtkind yes i noticed
22:55 lichtkind and we can ask moritz tomorrow
22:55 uvtc Yup. Ok, o/
22:55 uvtc left #perl6
22:55 lichtkind good night
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23:35 [Coke] Can't ssh into feather.
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