Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-04-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:22 dalek tablets: b37c1ba | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/index.txt:
00:22 dalek tablets: reformated index a bit
00:22 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/b37c1baefe
00:22 dalek tablets: 23a679b | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (4 files):
00:22 dalek tablets: enforce new item formating
00:22 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/23a679beb4
00:47 dalek tablets: 76df1ae | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
00:47 dalek tablets: formating index entries with dash entities
00:47 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/76df1ae2e8
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01:43 colomon sorear: ping?
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01:52 sorear colomon: pong!
01:52 colomon o/
01:53 colomon So, I just tried the ABC code under Niecza.
01:53 colomon I'm getting Two definitions found for symbol ::GLOBAL::ABC::Duration::&duration-from-parse
01:53 dalek tablets: e35201a | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
01:53 dalek tablets: keep on dashing and quirks removing
01:53 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/e35201a8ec
01:53 colomon Here's the code in question: https://gist.github.com/2417825
01:54 colomon sorear: is there something stupid I'm doing wrong there, or is Niecza being unreasonable about exported multis?
01:54 sorear Niecza is being unreasonable about our-scoped multis
01:54 sorear I think exported multis per se is fine
01:56 colomon hmmm... have to admit I have no idea why there's an our there at all.  seems to work fine in rakudo without them...
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01:59 colomon removing the ours seems to help for niecza as well.
01:59 sorear colomon: isn't this really old?  I think alpha had issues with my-scope multis
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02:01 sorear So
02:01 colomon Hmmm, yeah, goes back to 2009.  So it must have been alpha.
02:01 sorear Who will be the first person in over a month to show up first on planet6?
02:02 colomon Most recent post there is last week.
02:03 colomon Masak's post from last month is incorrectly listed as most recent.
02:03 sorear That's what I mean
02:03 sorear it's finally possible to beat masak to the top
02:03 colomon oh!
02:03 colomon I see.
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02:05 colomon I've got a blog post planned, but not on my p6 blog.
02:07 dalek tablets: 60d69ae | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
02:07 dalek tablets: first links
02:07 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/60d69aec0a
02:08 colomon and I greatly doubt I'll have time for a random blog post before Monday.
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02:14 colomon sorear++ # belated thanks for the help
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02:15 colomon oooo, ** 3 is now obsolete, isn't it?
02:16 uvtc lichtkind, ping
02:16 lichtkind uvtc: hai
02:16 lichtkind liks are fine
02:16 uvtc lichtkind, looks like the anchors work now.
02:16 uvtc lichtkind, great.
02:16 lichtkind just update is sometimes slow
02:16 lichtkind i did massive changes
02:16 lichtkind mostly formating
02:17 lichtkind many quirs still
02:17 lichtkind but end is near
02:17 lichtkind its 2012
02:17 uvtc haha
02:17 uvtc Well, that's some master index in the Tablets.
02:18 uvtc lichtkind, looks like there's still an issue with $\*DISTRO**
02:20 lichtkind i know
02:21 lichtkind i think its fixed in git
02:21 lichtkind needs just time
02:21 uvtc lichtkind, Just fetched/merged. Still there.
02:22 lichtkind how do you know?
02:22 uvtc I just grabbed the latest files and then built the html.
02:23 dalek tablets: 75e2274 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
02:23 dalek tablets: more small fixes in index
02:23 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/75e2274bec
02:24 lichtkind try now
02:24 lichtkind im reall curiou if it was that
02:24 uvtc No, still there. You've got Pandoc installed on your system, right?
02:24 lichtkind no :)
02:25 lichtkind not yet
02:25 uvtc Oh my. That means you can't immediately check the results of your changes.
02:25 uvtc lichtkind, What OS are you using?
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02:26 uvtc On debian-based systems, it's just `sudo apt-get install pandoc`
02:26 dalek tablets: 64fd869 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
02:26 dalek tablets: fixing distro var
02:26 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/64fd86934b
02:27 lichtkind ubuntu
02:27 uvtc lichtkind, Oooh, I see you've added some — entities. Handsome. :)
02:27 lichtkind 800 of them
02:27 uvtc Looks better. Me and my constituents endorse that change. :)
02:27 lichtkind and many small things on the side
02:28 lichtkind its lrearer
02:28 lichtkind clearer
02:28 lichtkind uvtc: you mean your fleas?
02:29 uvtc lichtkind, all 800 of them.
02:30 uvtc lichtkind, :)
02:30 colomon n: STD.parse("die");
02:30 lichtkind :)
02:30 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Undeclared name:�        'STD' used at line 1��Unhandled exception: Check failed��  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1366 (die @ 3) �  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 33) �  at /home/p6…
02:30 lichtkind uvtc: subrules were also broken
02:31 lichtkind slowly i get a sense what to quote in markdown
02:33 dalek tablets: e3672a8 | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
02:33 dalek tablets: Fixes to get $*DISTRO and $?DISTRO to look right.
02:33 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/e3672a8831
02:33 lichtkind ok i compiled it parts are better
02:33 uvtc lichtkind, There. that fixed them.
02:34 colomon n: grammar A { regex b { \w+ }; }; say A.parse("hello!", :rule<b>);
02:34 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«A()␤»
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02:34 colomon n: grammar A { regex b { \w+ }; }; say A.parse("hello", :rule<b>);
02:34 lichtkind i see
02:34 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(5) text(hello) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
02:35 colomon n: grammar A { regex b { \w+ }; }; say A.parse("hello!", :rule<b>);
02:35 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«A()␤»
02:36 lichtkind uvtc: i fix the rest
02:36 lichtkind i seen it
02:38 lichtkind uvtc: oh you done all of them
02:39 lichtkind ok shady background has to fade
02:39 lichtkind and some nice fonts
02:42 uvtc lichtkind, by all means -- get stylish. :)
02:42 lichtkind uvtc: even with the ugly tables the tables are so much easie to write , even that is alsmost worth the effort index B was insanely handcrafted to look good
02:43 lichtkind uvtc: i may mention that i studied computer visualistics :09
02:44 uvtc lichtkind, Ugly tables? You mean the css, or just ugly in the text editor? I think both look good.
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02:45 lichtkind uvtc: the left column of some tables could be slim, but i spoke mostly about tables in socialtext
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02:45 lichtkind its almost like waterbording
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02:55 sorear ...like what?
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03:08 dalek tablets: 43ea61a | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
03:08 dalek tablets: try fix distro var further
03:08 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/43ea61acf0
03:08 dalek tablets: 707a266 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
03:08 dalek tablets: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/tablets
03:08 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/707a266edf
03:08 dalek tablets: 046f79c | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
03:08 dalek tablets: more links, reachable from navbar
03:08 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/046f79c595
03:14 uvtc phenny, tell moritz Thanks for adding that bit of css to the wiki, moritz. Looks nice.
03:14 phenny uvtc: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
03:16 colomon sorear: feels like I'm just one or two bugs away from getting ABC up on niecza, but for now, it is time to sleep.
03:17 sorear sleep++
03:18 lichtkind yes
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03:54 dalek tablets: 77c3be8 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
03:54 dalek tablets: secondary navbar works
03:54 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/77c3be8db6
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04:55 dalek tablets: 34a7b59 | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/ (6 files):
04:55 dalek tablets: Lightened and improved styling.
04:55 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/34a7b59749
04:55 dalek tablets: 75530f3 | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
04:55 dalek tablets: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/tablets
04:55 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/75530f33f6
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05:01 dalek tablets: 037308c | (John Gabriele)++ | README.md:
05:01 dalek tablets: Cleaned up a little and added link to tablets.perl6.org
05:01 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/037308ce8b
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05:17 jlaire p6: my $x = "กี่กั้สูΐş"; say so $x ~~ m:m/กกสιs/
05:17 p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Adverb m not allowed on m␤at /tmp/nKeEH0xEc3:1␤»
05:17 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.20120203/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** Can't locate P…
05:17 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Unrecognized adverb :m(1) at /tmp/FTNC8TqJIi line 1:�------> [32mmy $x = "�ี่�ั้สู�ş"; say so $x ~~ m[33m�[31m:m/��สιs/[0m��Regex modifier m not valid on match at /tmp/FTNC8TqJIi line 1:�------> [32mmy $x = "�ี่�ั้สู�ş"…
05:21 jlaire S05:276: "character by character" should be "grapheme by grapheme"
05:22 dalek modules.perl6.org: 096b715 | (John Gabriele)++ | web/index.tmpl:
05:22 dalek modules.perl6.org: Noted that panda comes with R*, and provided link.
05:22 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/096b715ceb
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07:50 dalek tablets: 9bc9428 | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/build-html.py:
07:50 dalek tablets: Removed print statements from build-html.py to silence cron. Also added flag to rebuild all html.
07:50 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/9bc9428e6c
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09:12 cognominal_ Le Monde web semble rouler pour Hollande, hier c'était sarko supermenteur, aujourd'hui Mélenchon adepte de la Terreur.
09:12 cognominal_ arf, I did it again
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09:39 arnsholt cognominal_: But since you mentioned it, what're your thughts on the crop of candidates for the presidency?
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09:42 fsergot Hi 0/
09:45 cognominal_ arnholt: voting is choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea.
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09:47 arnsholt All more or less equally bad then. Right =)
09:47 cognominal_ None of the real problems have been talken about. Anyway France is just a small act in the current Barnum three ring circus even if French don't want to acknoledge it.
09:47 arnsholt Heh. Bigger than Norway =)
09:47 cognominal_ Norway still has some oil...
09:47 sergot joined #perl6
09:48 * moritz loves the deep blue see. For vacations at least :-)
09:48 phenny moritz: 03:14Z <uvtc> tell moritz Thanks for adding that bit of css to the wiki, moritz. Looks nice.
09:49 arnsholt Yeah, we do have the oil, but not much else. Eva Joly for example has been exported =)
09:50 fsergot joined #perl6
09:52 jnthn Hey...you have fjords!
09:52 jnthn And heated pavements.
09:53 jnthn Norway FTW!
09:53 arnsholt Also, we do have a modest selection of decent beers, even if they cost an arm and a leg
09:53 cognominal_ arnholt: one of the France paradox is that it wants oil but pretends to ignore it gets part of it cheaply thru corruption in Africa. Nevertheless, we give lessons to US in UN when they invade Irak.
09:54 arnsholt Well, Norway gives lessons to everyone all the time, and we have a thriving export business selling munitions and weapon systems as well
09:55 moritz arnsholt: except that nobody listens when Norway gives lessons :-)
09:55 moritz arnsholt: at least the media here is pretty silent about those lessens :-)
09:58 cognominal_ arnsholt: Most of the French would send you back Eva Joly. See is even more dogmatic than she is honest.
09:58 fsergot jnthn: You are in Norway already? :)
09:59 fsergot Are You*
09:59 fsergot jnthn: I'll be tomorrow! \o/
10:00 * moritz will arrive at the airport at 14:20 tomorrow
10:00 moritz if all goes well :-)
10:01 jnthn fsergot: No, I arrive this evening.
10:02 * fsergot will arive at 8:00 tomorrow. :)
10:03 cognominal_ I will not be there. But I will hack from home.
10:05 cognominal_ too bad, because I would have bribed jnthn with Chartreuse to fix some bugs
10:06 jnthn Hmm...hitting the Balmer peak with Chartreuse takes a lot of skill though...it's strong stuff.
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10:08 cognominal_ we certainly don't pour it in mugs.
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10:24 pmurias fglock: hi
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10:39 sjn fsergot: 08:00?
10:40 sjn fsergot: that's probably a bit early for for krunen, have you talked with him?
10:40 dalek star: c6b1616 | bbkr++ | Makefile:
10:40 dalek star: Fixed path in comment that points to makefile where modules should be also listed.
10:40 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/c6b1616a33
10:40 dalek star: 543be93 | bbkr++ | skel/tools/build/Makefile.in:
10:40 dalek star: Removed duplicated LWP::Simple module.
10:40 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/543be937c7
10:40 dalek star: 5da9088 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
10:40 dalek star: Merge pull request #1 from bbkr/master
10:40 dalek star:
10:40 dalek star: Minor fixes of modules list.
10:40 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/5da9088352
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10:41 colomon perl6: grammar A { regex b { \w+ }; }; say A.parse("hello!", :rule<b>);
10:41 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class A: "&parse"␤    at /tmp/GKxybZeXoQ line 1, column 37-64␤»
10:41 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«A()␤»
10:41 p6eval ..rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«=> <hello>␤␤»
10:41 colomon perl6: grammar A { regex b { \w+ }; }; say A.parse("hello", :rule<b>);
10:41 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class A: "&parse"␤    at /tmp/_1Z05evb61 line 1, column 37-63␤»
10:41 p6eval ..niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(5) text(hello) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
10:41 p6eval ..rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«=> <hello>␤␤»
10:56 krunen jnthn: Hi, will you stay on my boat or have you found a hotel?
10:59 pmurias fglock: how should I implement last, new AST node?
11:05 geistteufel hi folks,
11:05 geistteufel I have a test which failed on rakudo
11:05 geistteufel http://pastebin.com/bztmcGwa
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11:06 moritz geistteufel: probably you don't have an UTF-8 locale in effect
11:06 geistteufel I think I am
11:06 geistteufel all over test has success
11:07 moritz can you please nopaste the output from the  locale   command?
11:07 geistteufel my locale: http://pastebin.com/6WZ4KwWm
11:08 moritz geistteufel: what happens if you run LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8 ./perl6 t/spec/S19-command-line/dash-e.t ?
11:08 moritz anyway, have to run now. Will try to investigate later
11:09 geistteufel same error
11:09 geistteufel I'm on macosX lion
11:10 geistteufel I will report on rakudo github repos
11:11 geistteufel arg i can't
11:14 colomon perl6: say "1/4".eval
11:14 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method eval in class Str␤  at /tmp/nIaECtl_Oz line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3839 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (module-CORE @ 65) ␤  at /home/p…
11:14 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«0.25␤»
11:15 colomon perl6: eval("1/4")
11:15 fglock pmurias: use the ast as in: $ node perlito5.js -I./src5/lib -Cast-perl5  -e ' last LABEL '
11:15 p6eval pugs, rakudo 561682, niecza v16-21-g1b64073:  ( no output )
11:16 colomon perl6: say eval("1/4")
11:16 fglock LABEL is marked as 'bareword'
11:16 p6eval pugs, rakudo 561682, niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«0.25␤»
11:17 fglock and ' LABEL: for (@a) { 1 } ' generates a loop ast marked with 'label'
11:18 fglock you probably need a new class of Error to catch the control exception
11:19 fglock and add a try/catch to p5for(), p5for_lex()
11:20 colomon perl6: say 205.eval
11:20 p6eval niecza v16-21-g1b64073: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method eval in class Int␤  at /tmp/FbK4_W5TzY line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3839 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (module-CORE @ 65) ␤  at /home/p…
11:20 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«205␤»
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11:26 bbkr rakudo: $_ = "foo"; if /./ ff /./ { .say } # known bug?
11:26 p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in method Bool at src/gen/CORE.setting:8849␤  in sub infix:<ff> at src/gen/CORE.setting:10416␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/3UdLci7XNs:1␤␤»
11:26 bbkr somehow second /./ is not matched against $_
11:27 pmurias fglock: how do you plan to make 'for my $foo (@foo) {$foo *= 2}' modify @foo?
11:27 fglock pmurias: next LABEL would probably be compiled to js: throw(new p5_next("LABEL"));
11:28 fglock re modify @foo,
11:29 fglock either "inline" the aliasing (kind of variable renaming)
11:29 fglock or use proxy objects that know how to set() the original
11:30 fglock for subroutine arguments $_[0], proxy objects are the only way I think
11:31 fglock see also README-perlito5-js, I've written down some ideas
11:32 pmurias it seems like it will put a (slight) performance penalty on most things
11:32 * pmurias reads that again
11:32 fglock yes, I don't plan to add that for now
11:32 fglock maybe after 10.0
11:33 fglock well, who knows
11:33 pmurias what is the goal for Perlito5?
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11:37 dalek niecza: aa61ed5 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
11:37 dalek niecza: Add Cool.eval.
11:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/aa61ed50e6
11:39 fglock the goal was to have a perl 5 in the browser, that is done - node.js, CPAN, and everything else are way ahead of the initial goals; and XS is almost completely ruled out
11:40 pmurias XS doesn't seem doable without embedding the perl5 interpreter
11:41 pmurias which doesn't make much sense
11:42 fglock XS may be doable in luajit; it embeds a C compiler; it would probably needs big tweaks
11:42 fglock *need
11:43 fglock it may even be doable in node.js with C++; it just looks complicated
11:43 pmurias it would require duplicating the perl5 internals
11:44 pmurias or just duplicating the api to the perl5 internals
11:45 fglock yes, the api only
11:46 fglock alternately, emscripten: http://mozakai.blogspot.com/
11:48 fglock and alternately, LLVM directly if you have lots of tuits
11:50 fglock or reuse niecza VM - that would be cool, btw
11:56 dalek tablets: aeee308 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (2 files):
11:56 dalek tablets: links are now case sensitive
11:56 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/aeee308092
11:56 dalek tablets: 1dcf11d | (Herbert Breunung)++ | / (7 files):
11:56 dalek tablets: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/tablets
11:56 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/1dcf11db0a
11:58 tokuhirom joined #perl6
11:59 pmurias re reuse niecza VM, niecza can only use XS by using the embedded perl5
11:59 pmurias s/the/an/
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12:03 colomon n: grammar A { regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("15", :rule<b>);
12:03 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method number in class A␤  at /tmp/BrRlnK8B5k line 1 (A.b @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2811 (Grammar.parse @ 4) ␤  at /tmp/BrRlnK8B5k line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.se…
12:03 colomon n: grammar A { regex number { \d+ }; regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("15", :rule<b>);
12:03 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(2) text(15) pos([].list) named({"foo" => #<match from(0) to(2) text(15) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, "number" => #<match from(0) to(2) text(15) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>}.hash)>␤»
12:04 colomon n: grammar A { regex number { \d+ }; regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("15", :rule<b>)<number>;
12:04 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(2) text(15) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
12:04 colomon n: grammar A { regex number { \d+ }; regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("15", :rule<b>)<foo>;
12:04 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(2) text(15) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
12:07 colomon n: grammar A { regex number { \d+ }; regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("a", :rule<b>)<foo>;
12:07 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
12:07 brrt left #perl6
12:07 pmurias shopping...
12:09 fglock ... because programming is hard
12:11 pmurias heh ;)
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12:16 colomon n: grammar A { regex number { \d+ }; regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("a", :rule<b>)<foo>[0];
12:16 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
12:16 colomon r: grammar A { regex number { \d+ }; regex b { <foo=number>? }; }; say A.parse("a", :rule<b>)<foo>[0];
12:16 p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
12:22 cognominal_ "new languages such as Perl, Scala and Ruby are popular" :)    http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/careers/3352083/it-workers-with-multiple-programming-languages-earn-10000-more/
12:24 flussence I wonder what their point of reference was, COBOL? BASIC?
12:25 arnsholt Java, C# perhaps
12:26 cognominal_ may be this guy comes from the near future and talks of the next craze : Perl 6
12:26 colomon perl certainly predates C#.
12:26 cognominal_ and Java by a large margin.
12:27 arnsholt colomon: I know that. Not sure if the journalist does though =)
12:27 colomon fair enough!
12:27 flussence Perl might predate that person :)
12:28 cognominal_ :)
12:30 cognominal_ He does not talk of javascript which confirms that guys does not have a clue even if its article ends up on the web.
12:30 cognominal_ s/its/his/
12:36 dalek tablets: 80450bd | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
12:36 dalek tablets: terms with x got anchors
12:36 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/80450bdd0b
13:02 arnsholt Yet another advantage of writing tests: You remember features you haven't implemented
13:06 arnsholt Yay, segfault ^_^
13:10 fglock maybe he is talking about perl5-in-javascript
13:10 * [Coke] is going to do the release after $dayjob today.
13:11 fsergot sjn: I have just talked with him.
13:12 fsergot sjn: At 8 I'll be at the airport, so in Oslo I'll be at 9:50-10:00.
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13:25 flussence lichtkind: found a typo, the first "=" should be "==" on the right here: http://tablets.perl6.org/appendix-e-exciting.html#comparison
13:26 lichtkind got it, thanks will appear inside the massive patch if you dont mind
13:26 lichtkind flussence:++
13:26 flussence nice font on that page btw :)
13:26 sjn fsergot: ok, cool!
13:27 lichtkind flussence: ah yeah thats google fonts and that made uvtv yesterday
13:27 lichtkind i mean uvtc
13:27 lichtkind fluence the links work it gets really useful
13:29 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
13:31 dalek tablets: 56a2b7b | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/build-html.py:
13:31 dalek tablets: All html has been regenerated. Set DO_THEM_ALL back to False.
13:31 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/56a2b7bba3
13:33 spider-mario joined #perl6
13:33 dalek tablets: 4b0f2fd | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
13:33 dalek tablets: more anchors and intro for glossary
13:33 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/4b0f2fda8d
13:33 dalek tablets: d66a9a1 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (2 files):
13:33 dalek tablets: minor fixes; flussence++
13:33 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/d66a9a1607
13:33 dalek tablets: 90b1c54 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/build-html.py:
13:33 dalek tablets: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/tablets
13:33 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/90b1c54606
13:34 spider-mario joined #perl6
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13:51 pmurias fglock: is PERLITO5LIB a good idea?
13:54 fglock yes, that's in the TODO list; search PERLITO5LIB first, only then search PERL5LIB; do not search PERL5LIB if there is no PERLITO5LIB, in order to avoid getting the "wrong" strict.pm
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13:58 jaffa4 fglock: at what state, is perl 5 to perl 6 conversion at?
13:59 fglock jaffa4: there is very little implemented,
13:59 jaffa4 fglock: what do you use to parse perl 5?
13:59 fglock we need a perl5 "model" describing how things would work, this is barely started
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14:01 fglock jaffa4: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/tree/master/src5/lib/Perlito5/Grammar
14:03 jaffa4 I see
14:03 jaffa4 looks good
14:04 fglock perl5, plus a mini version of http://search.cpan.org/dist/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/
14:06 jaffa4 I see
14:06 colomon n: say (1, 2, 3), (2, 4, 6)
14:06 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«1 2 32 4 6␤»
14:07 fglock a perl5 "model" is like: what would be the perl6 version of @ISA / bless / package; how to deal with variable redeclaration in the same scope (not allowed in perl6) - things like that
14:08 jaffa4 yes
14:08 fglock what we have now is the sigil substitution, and a few operators - that was the easy part
14:09 fglock and the perl5 parser :)
14:09 jaffa4 the perl 5 compiler.. What does it translate perl 5 into?
14:09 pmurias javascript
14:10 jaffa4 Why?
14:10 fglock it translates into abstract syntax tree (just a perl structure)
14:10 fglock the AST is then transformed in what you might want (javascript for example)
14:10 jaffa4 I guess you want to run perl 5 on something.
14:11 fglock we have emitters for perl5 (roundtrip testing), javascript, and a very limited perl6
14:12 fhelmberger joined #perl6
14:12 jaffa4 WHat is your plan of finishing it?
14:12 fglock jaffa4: javascript because it is fun to play in the browser; and because node.js is pretty fast
14:13 jaffa4 node.js?
14:13 jaffa4 ok, I found it
14:13 fglock http://nodejs.org - a javascript + libraries
14:14 jaffa4 Is it faster than perl5?
14:14 fglock no, it is approximately the same speed in the current version
14:15 fglock on average - specific commands can be slower/faster
14:16 jaffa4 okay
14:18 jaffa4 fglock: what do you think when you will have a decent perl 5 to perl 6 compiler ready?
14:20 fglock we have discussed it here a while ago, there is a reason to expect that compiling perl5 directly to the perl6 VM gives better results
14:20 fglock than compiling perl5 to perl6 and then to the VM
14:20 jaffa4 Parrot?
14:21 fglock yes, perl5 to Parrot or .NET
14:21 pmurias or niecza's nam
14:21 fglock exactly
14:21 fglock that is the whole idea of Parrot, actually
14:22 fglock javascript just happens to be a nice VM nowadays
14:22 jaffa4 BUt compiling to perl 6 would allow reusing perl 5 code
14:22 jaffa4 in Perl 6 packages
14:23 PerlJam jaffa4: you want to write a perl5 to perl6 translator? :)
14:24 fglock true - but sharing a common VM also does allow reusing
14:24 fglock PerlJam: we have a prototype working
14:24 pmurias there is a difference between translating perl6 to perl5 and compiling perl6 to perl5
14:24 jaffa4 I refered to the other direction
14:24 PerlJam fglock: rakudo and niecza don't share a common VM, but they both grok perl6.  Seems like compiling to Perl 6 is a bigger win
14:25 dalek nqp: e5e2dea | coke++ | VERSION:
14:25 dalek nqp: bump VERSION to 2012.04
14:25 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e5e2dea0f5
14:25 pmurias jaffa4: sorry, mixed up the numbers
14:25 jaffa4 or to C or C++
14:25 jaffa4 pmuries:What would be the difference?
14:26 fglock I think there is only one way to know what is better; write both p5-to-p6 and p5-to-VM and see what works better
14:26 PerlJam indeed
14:26 PerlJam But  there's something to be said for "easier to implement" too :)
14:26 jaffa4 fglock: it works better if you can produce a better pasm than rakudo.
14:26 jaffa4 Can you?
14:27 pmurias jaffa4: either trying to preserve correctness as much as possibe or aiming to produce human readable/modifiable code
14:27 colomon r: say "test  ".subst(/(\s+)$/, { "XYZZY$0" })
14:27 p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«testXYZZY␤»
14:27 colomon n: say "test  ".subst(/(\s+)$/, { "XYZZY$0" })
14:27 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«testXYZZY  â¤Â»
14:27 colomon r: say "test  ".subst(/(\s+)$/, { "XYZZY$_" })
14:27 p6eval rakudo 561682: OUTPUT«testXYZZY  â¤Â»
14:27 colomon n: say "test  ".subst(/(\s+)$/, { "XYZZY$_" })
14:27 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«testXYZZY  â¤Â»
14:28 jaffa4 pmuries: if I wonder if these are contradictory aims.
14:29 pmurias jaffa4: a lot of things behave slightly differently in perl6
14:29 PerlJam jaffa4: not contradictory, no.
14:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 0c5d318 | coke++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
14:29 dalek rakudo/nom: update to latest NQP
14:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0c5d3182f8
14:30 jaffa4 PerlJam: per chance
14:30 fglock jaffa4: parrot architecture was meant to run perl in the first place, I don't expect a big mismatch there (which could cause slowdowns)
14:30 brrt joined #perl6
14:30 moritz unfortunately parrot has verged off that path occasionally
14:31 jlaire joined #perl6
14:31 fglock this used to work: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/blob/master/src6/lib/Perlito6/Parrot/Emitter.pm
14:32 fglock it could be retargeted for perl5
14:32 dalek rakudo/nom: b27b216 | coke++ | src/core/tai-utc.pm:
14:32 dalek rakudo/nom: ooh, new leap second
14:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b27b2160d8
14:32 fglock "used to work" - ages ago :P
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14:37 fsergot o/
14:37 fglock the problem with multiple backends - this is *very* distracting; you need to multiply the tuits accordingly
14:38 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
14:38 PerlJam fglock: get some of the #parrot people to maintain the parrot backend :)
14:38 moritz good am, pmichaud
14:39 PerlJam pmichaud: greetings
14:39 fglock pmichaud: o/
14:39 moritz erm, afternoon? are you in .no already?
14:39 pmichaud yes
14:39 moritz \o/
14:39 moritz then we'll meet in about 25 hours
14:39 pmichaud planning to head off to Oslo.pm in a few
14:39 * tadzik is jealous
14:40 pmichaud I always try to arrive a day early so I can rest a bit before the activities begin
14:40 pmichaud and, in this case, I get to attend a talk by TheDamian++
14:40 moritz nice :-)
14:41 colomon DamianTalks++
14:41 jaffa4 fglock: then concentrate on one only
14:41 moritz well, we eurpeans don't have so much jet lag this time :-)
14:41 fglock PerlJam: "not invented here" - I think p5-in-p5 will be reimplemented at some point; and by several people :)
14:42 fglock jaffa4: yes, javascript for now (and p5-to-p5)
14:42 moritz I already have 5-in-5 compiler :-)
14:42 jaffa4 I cannot see point in p5 in p5.
14:42 jlaire joined #perl6
14:42 moritz installed as /bin/cat :-)
14:42 jaffa4 call perl
14:42 jaffa4 call -> called perl?
14:42 fglock cat is the fastet p5-to-p5
14:42 fglock *fastest
14:43 tokuhirom joined #perl6
14:43 PerlJam pmichaud: What's Damian talking about?  I think I've only heard about him doing "Conference Presentation Judo" lately.
14:43 fglock 5-in-5 can replace source filters
14:43 fglock it can do "strange stuff"
14:43 pmichaud PerlJam: Basic arithmetic stuff, I think.  Just a sec.
14:44 jaffa4 code transformation, refactoring
14:44 pmichaud PerlJam:  "Talk by Damian Conway: Temporally Quaquaversal Virtual Nanomachine Programming In Multiple Topologically Connected Quantum-Relativistic Parallel Spacetimes… Made Easy! "
14:45 pmichaud so yeah, arithmetic stuff.
14:45 pmichaud (iirc, this is his "virtual time" talk)
14:45 moritz I wonder if he has written a talk title obfuscator
14:46 pmichaud moritz: probably -- and it's in a module that he's just about to upload to CPAN.  :-)
14:49 pmichaud afk for a bit
14:49 * PerlJam surveys the last 3 or so youtube videos of Damian's talk to see how it has evolved so far.
14:51 fglock hmm - you don't have a 5-in-5 compiler, you have a p5-in-C compiler
14:52 fhelmberger_ joined #perl6
14:55 jaffa4 fglock: what are you talking about?
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14:58 fglock jaffa4: nevermind, I've misread some joke :P
14:59 TimToady jlaire: re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-04-19#i_5464683 we use the term "character" to mean the current Unicode level, so it means "grapheme" already by default (but can mean "codepoints" or "bytes" depending on context)
15:00 TimToady modulo the fact that nobody actually implements grapheme mode yet...
15:02 * TimToady wonders if we should force all current programs to declare "use codepoints;" just to keep bug compatibility later...
15:03 moritz we aren't that squeamish with other incompatible changes we introduce to language or compilers
15:04 TimToady sure, but if people really start using Perl 6 in production before we declare 6.0.0, they're likely to get burned on this, as well as the other things, admittedly
15:05 TimToady mostly just doing a bit of awareness building here...
15:05 moritz the solution of course is to declare it 6.0.0 before it goes into too many production environments
15:06 moritz and defering some features to later p6 versions
15:06 daxim that worked out so fine for kde 4!!111
15:07 moritz daxim: except that people deinstalled kde 3 to use kde 4
15:07 moritz we don't expect people to deinstall perl 5 as soon as we declare 6.0.0
15:08 fglock maybe declare it 6.0.-1
15:10 TimToady hmm, we could reserve 0 version numbers for prerelease, in which case the first real version is 6.1
15:11 moritz unless we follow the p5 tradition of having odd release numbers as development versions
15:11 TimToady or 6.1.1
15:11 moritz so the first *real* real version would be 6.2 :-)
15:11 TimToady or 6.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
15:11 fglock that's odd
15:11 [Coke] I am not a huge fan of odd=dev; is there precendent for that other than perl5 ?
15:12 jaffa4 Is there a version number now?
15:12 TimToady no
15:12 TimToady use 6ish;
15:12 moritz we used to write   use v6-alpha;
15:12 moritz dunno what happened to that
15:13 jaffa4 version control system has version numers
15:13 jaffa4 version control system has version numbers
15:14 TimToady S02:4379 still has that as spec
15:14 spider-mario joined #perl6
15:15 fglock perlito uses "use v6-perlito;" - that's because perl5 can actually handle that
15:16 fglock handling multiple capability specifications can be verbose, as in perl5 "use feature"
15:17 TimToady if Perl versions are really versions of the test suite, then the current incantation would be "use v6.84b3895ce1beab1e016a3853d960fa08eb7f1a66;"
15:17 bbkr i am also not big fan of odd=dev approach. and I consider tripple numbers in version as weird.  if I'm on 1.2.3 should I release 1.3.0 or stay on 1.2.4? this is very relative.
15:17 TimToady er, v6.GIT84b3895ce1beab1e016a3853d960fa08eb7f1a66.
15:17 sftp joined #perl6
15:17 benabik bbkr: semver.org
15:17 TimToady course, git ids don't sort...
15:18 moritz I think using the date is fine-graded enough for most applications
15:18 moritz v6.2012-04-19
15:19 TimToady was just thinking the same
15:19 TimToady but needs an alpha to force before 0
15:19 TimToady v6.asof2012-04-19
15:19 moritz v6:date<2012-04-19>
15:20 TimToady v6._2012-04-19
15:20 fglock use before: 2012-04-19
15:20 bbkr benabik: thanks, interesting lecture. but for Perl 6 model it is quite useless - spec change is never a patch, that makes 3rd param obsolete.
15:20 fglock I've seen this somewhere
15:21 * moritz wonders if Q:d/2012-04-19/ should create a Date object
15:22 moritz well, probably a task for a module :-)
15:22 fglock "best before see bottom"
15:22 benabik bbkr: Possibly.  I wouldn't rule it out though.  Clarifications that don't actually change the API could be considered under it,  But I wasn't say it was good for the spec, just that version triples are useful.
15:22 moritz and some day I'll collect all such modules, and create the magic.pl6 pragma with which you enable them all
15:23 xinming_ joined #perl6
15:23 fglock "best after christmas"
15:24 benabik moritz: Not dwim.pl6?
15:24 jaffa4 Is it possible to use perl 6 grammar in niecza somehow?
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15:27 fglock as an implementor, I'm a fan of capability declarations - but as a language user I want "everything"
15:28 lichtkind fglock: thats awesome pun
15:28 fglock that is, "6.2" :)
15:29 lichtkind 2 Pi :)
15:29 moritz tau!
15:30 spider-mario τ !
15:32 * pmichaud heads off to oslo.pm -- bbl
15:32 jaffa4 oslo is so far away
15:33 fhelmberger joined #perl6
15:39 dalek tablets: aa950ea | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
15:39 dalek tablets: glossary is now well anchored and formated
15:39 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/aa950ea0e1
15:40 [Coke] safe travels, pmichaud!
15:42 thou joined #perl6
15:43 lichtkind i would oslo like to go
15:43 lichtkind i mena also
15:48 lichtkind speaking of tau - it was discovered by martin perl :)
15:48 Psyche^ joined #perl6
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15:58 raiph good * all
15:59 raiph re versions, fwiw, http://semver.org/
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16:22 dalek tablets: 082fd54 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
16:22 dalek tablets: anchors and sanitizing main index
16:22 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/082fd5440f
16:22 lichtkind raiph: jou did you see?
16:23 lichtkind raiph: thats actuall what i announce for kephra 6 years ago :)
16:23 lichtkind i just didnt called it semantic
16:23 lichtkind just "the way to go" )tm(
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16:36 spider-mario I’ve attempted to mix KDE’s logo with Perl 6’s
16:36 spider-mario I don’t know what to think about it :D
16:36 spider-mario http://ompldr.org/vZGZvbA
16:36 spider-mario I’m not sure their licenses are compatible anyway
16:36 spider-mario (KDE’s logo is under LGPL, I think)
16:36 PerlJam spider-mario: I like it
16:36 daxim oxygenic
16:36 spider-mario (I don’t know how it applies to logos)
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16:41 dalek tablets: 8697d07 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
16:41 dalek tablets: repairing links and anchors further
16:41 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/8697d07f6d
16:42 tadzik spider-mario: hehe, cool
16:43 moritz is that kamelia? :-)
16:44 tadzik haha
16:44 tadzik seen uvtc?
16:44 aloha uvtc was last seen in #perl6 13 hours 30 mins ago saying "phenny, tell moritz Thanks for adding that bit of css to the wiki, moritz. Looks nice.".
16:47 TimToady Camelia in "headlights mode" is always a bit creepy...
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16:52 lichtkind are  the insantces whewre you can actually spell Whatever?
16:53 lichtkind instances
16:53 TimToady you must spell it that way when referring to the type in a signature
16:54 lichtkind thank you
16:54 TimToady since * means something else there
16:54 uvtc joined #perl6
16:55 uvtc tadzik, hi
16:55 tadzik hey
16:55 tadzik I'm just replying to your email(s) :)
16:56 uvtc tadzik, Cool, thanks. ☺
16:56 tadzik done
16:57 tadzik I'll go and fetch some food now, bbi30-ish
16:57 uvtc lichtkind, Do you like the styling changes I made to the tablets?
16:58 [Coke] r: say (1..Whatever)[10]
16:58 p6eval rakudo b27b21: OUTPUT«11␤»
16:58 [Coke] r: say (Whatever..Whatever)[Whatever]
16:58 p6eval rakudo b27b21: OUTPUT«␤»
16:58 [Coke] r: say (0..Whatever)[Whatever]
16:58 sjohnson eval: 5
16:58 p6eval rakudo b27b21: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
16:58 buubot_backup sjohnson: 5
17:01 lichtkind uvtc: very much just minor changes and i dislike google :)
17:01 lichtkind uvtc: its readable easy to overview and close to my taste
17:01 lichtkind uvtc: you seen completely sanitised glossary
17:02 lichtkind uvtc: i have now clear naming rules for topics and anchors
17:02 lichtkind maybe we write it down in the wiki
17:02 uvtc lichtkind, Have not looked at the glossary ... looking now
17:03 uvtc lichtkind, looks nice. You were thinking of moving the glossary to the wiki?
17:03 PacoAir joined #perl6
17:04 lichtkind uvtc: no just  store meta infos for contributors in wiki
17:04 uvtc "very much just minor changes"? Pshaw! :)
17:04 lichtkind uvtc: what you mean?
17:04 thou_ joined #perl6
17:05 uvtc lichtkind, just teasing --- I just mean that I liked the changes. :)
17:06 replor___ joined #perl6
17:07 lichtkind uvtc: i know its massive
17:07 uvtc lichtkind, But I don't understand --- you want to store Tablet contributor info in the wiki? I think that belongs in an appendix "H: Help from".
17:07 lichtkind uvtc: but i want it sanitized today
17:07 lichtkind no maybe in the intro
17:07 lichtkind appenices are alternative entry points for learners
17:08 uvtc lichtkind, you want to keep the glossary as part of the tablets, correct?
17:08 lichtkind yes
17:09 lichtkind because the answers the are formultated in a way that it gives you reference to specific perl 6 view of things
17:09 uvtc lichtkind, Good. That seems useful, since you'll probably be linking from that glossary to other parts of the Tablets.
17:09 lichtkind and links to the chapters where its discussed
17:09 lichtkind i was just talking about the naming rules
17:10 lichtkind ah update was 5 min ago
17:12 lichtkind uvtc: there are just 600 anchors to go :)
17:13 fsergot joined #perl6
17:13 fsergot Hi o/
17:13 lichtkind hai fsergot
17:15 fsergot How are you lichtkind?
17:15 fsergot :-)
17:15 uvtc lichtkind, anchors aweigh!
17:15 mspaulding joined #perl6
17:17 lichtkind :)
17:18 lichtkind fsergot: im 6 feet 73
17:20 lichtkind uvtc: but there is a strategic long term decision to make
17:20 lichtkind why not put the categories behinf the terms in angle brackets
17:20 lichtkind thats not only p6 ish
17:21 lichtkind but also seperates from round brackets to use for signatures
17:21 lichtkind that we put after eacht term the siganture
17:21 lichtkind so you know arity and return value
17:21 lichtkind exact data in index A
17:21 lichtkind what do yu think?
17:24 lichtkind nothing :)
17:26 uvtc lichtkind, sorry, was afk
17:26 uvtc lichtkind, I'm not really following you. Would you give an example of what you mean?
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17:38 dalek tablets: dac0e2d | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (3 files):
17:38 dalek tablets: there are no more file test  ops + anchors
17:38 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/dac0e2d6db
17:38 lichtkind uvtc: allright
17:38 lichtkind letz take the broken example http://tablets.perl6.org/appendix-a-index.html#v (its alred fixed)
17:39 lichtkind i want to write insted $?VM <special var>
17:39 lichtkind not $?VM (special var)
17:40 lichtkind so so that we can write in instance of ucfirst: ucfirst(s) with a green s of course
17:40 uvtc Sounds like, if you want to make that change, it's going to have to be done manually. {shudder} You can backslash escape the angle brackets, and they'll render correctly in the html.
17:40 lichtkind so can see at first glance what parameter ant return value has any method
17:40 lichtkind &lt; ?
17:40 vlixes joined #perl6
17:41 lichtkind or an really sophisticated regex
17:41 uvtc \< in pandoc-markdown will turn into &lt; in html
17:41 lichtkind time to actually use perl 6 :)
17:41 lichtkind yes but &lt; is more eye freindly to me
17:41 lichtkind beside the effort necesary
17:41 lichtkind what you think about the idea?
17:42 lichtkind or we put the in square brackets
17:43 lichtkind it might confusing in combination with subrules
17:43 lichtkind who already use angle brackets
17:43 uvtc lichtkind, I don't know what you mean by "subrules". Also, I'm not sure I see much difference between using ()'s and <>'s.
17:44 lichtkind but you know what i mean with signatures
17:44 lichtkind to list all methods (all ops are methods anyway) with signature
17:44 lichtkind so you get max infor from A
17:44 uvtc lichtkind, I'm still very new to Perl 6. When I hear "signature", I think function signature.
17:44 lichtkind so you get max info from A
17:44 lichtkind of course
17:44 lichtkind methods are functions :)
17:45 lichtkind just with a fance scope :)
17:45 lichtkind now we have substr (category)
17:46 lichtkind whan I want is : substr($s, $n, $n2 ) [category]
17:46 lichtkind or in angle brackets
17:46 lichtkind but some items in the index look like <prior>
17:46 lichtkind these are called predefined subrules
17:47 lichtkind and <prior> <subrule> might look confusing
17:47 lichtkind so i rather choose  <prior> [subrule]
17:47 lichtkind even angle brackets would be really the funny and native expression
17:48 lichtkind or [<category>]
17:48 lichtkind liek a char class :)
17:48 lichtkind thats even more funny
17:48 benabik I go to lunch for an hour and my back scroll has become the lichtkind show.  ;-)
17:49 lichtkind benabik: sorry do that private next time
17:49 uvtc lichtkind, Well, I'm not sure I have any good answer to your question. Since you've got html at your disposal, maybe make use of <span ...> so you can style it how you like later on?
17:49 lichtkind benabik: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
17:49 s1n joined #perl6
17:49 benabik lichtkind: Well, it looks like it's on topic, at least.
17:50 uvtc lichtkind, it's easy to overuse (), [], <>, etc., with many of them having to be backslash-escaped.
17:50 benabik lichtkind: Looks like you're trying to embed category information in the tablet source?  My thought is "use whatever syntax is simple".  :-)
17:50 uvtc lichtkind, Another option is to use unicode. Maybe «french quotes»?
17:51 lichtkind benabik: but should have some natural meaning
17:51 lichtkind uvtc: that might good idea
17:51 uvtc lichtkind, those don't have to be backslash-escaped, since they're not markup syntax.
17:51 benabik lichtkind: As long as you use it consistently, it should become natural, I think.
17:52 uvtc viva la unicode
17:52 benabik Doesn't unicode have specialized brackets for categories?  I mean, it has everything else.
17:57 lichtkind yes even a piece of shit
17:57 benabik Now, now.  It's just poo
17:57 benabik But it's a pile of it.
17:58 lichtkind benabik: I DONT GIVE A U+1F4A9
17:58 lichtkind shift lock again
17:59 benabik Most useless key on the board.
17:59 lichtkind benabik: yes we find something
17:59 uvtc .u 1f4a9
17:59 phenny uvtc: Sorry, no results for '1f4a9'.
17:59 colomon benabik: my three year old loves shift lock
18:00 benabik colomon: "three year olds love it" does not seem like a reasonable reason to keep it.  :-D
18:00 colomon It actually does sort of slightly point to a real reason -- the reason he loves it is that he doesn't have the dexterity to press down shift and a key at the same time.
18:00 uvtc lichtkind, If using Unicode, you could write the markup like "Follow the link to [☺this-sub☺](foo.html#bar)."
18:01 benabik colomon: Oh.  Fair enough.  Although sticky keys are useful for just that sort of thing.
18:02 colomon benabik: sure, there are other ways of doing it.
18:02 lichtkind <[ ]> was cute idea
18:02 lichtkind but even quoted itdoesnt work
18:02 lichtkind pandoc isnt that sopisticated
18:02 benabik <[ ]> feels familiar.  Although it might just be from postcircumfix:sym<[ ]>
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18:03 TimToady character classes in p6
18:05 benabik Maybe.
18:05 lichtkind TimToady: exactly tim
18:05 lichtkind uvtc: the force is strong with kephra its all replaced
18:06 lichtkind uvtc: just the links but its a good start
18:07 dalek tablets: 96cc0e8 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
18:07 dalek tablets: changed grouping brackets for index A
18:07 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/96cc0e8d0d
18:10 benabik weird."613 additions, 613 deletions not shown"
18:10 lichtkind hej its ruby
18:10 lichtkind they re not fast
18:11 lichtkind but seriously some are disturbed changing all the time fundamentals
18:11 uvtc lichtkind, At the top of the page , it still says, "Each term is followed by a link (in round brackets)".
18:11 lichtkind but i think i would have it anyway and its good p6 tradition :)
18:11 lichtkind yes
18:11 lichtkind i change it
18:11 lichtkind you call it french?
18:11 lichtkind i thought its chevron
18:12 uvtc Double chevron with cheese.
18:14 benabik .u «
18:14 phenny U+00AB LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK («)
18:14 uvtc I've just always heard them called that. Chevrons are the taller, squeezed-thin inequality signs. And <>'s I've always called angle brackets.
18:14 tadzik szewrony
18:14 benabik I believe they are used as quotation marks in French.
18:14 tadzik those things you sew on your coat sleeves after 5 years of service
18:14 [Coke] . o O (FIFTH CHEVRON, LOCKED)
18:15 [Coke] ... oh, I hope all those are in unicode. ;)
18:15 tadzik has anyone been flying wizzair?
18:16 Woodi2 joined #perl6
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18:16 Woodi2 allo
18:17 tadzik hey Woodi2
18:18 benabik Coke++
18:18 Woodi2 just wanted to add some thinks to rethink about non-technical hacks :) here:  http://www.lunski.pl/doc/OsloThinks.pdf  based on official questions :)
18:19 lichtkind time to going down the tubes
18:19 lichtkind nrn
18:19 Woodi2 I cannot go but wanted to throw into some abstract imaginations :)
18:20 lichtkind see ya&
18:20 Woodi2 o/
18:22 uvtc lichtkind, there's also the ⌊floor⌋ and ⌈ceiling⌉ matching pairs, if you need them.
18:22 tadzik Woodi2: I sooo hope future Perl 6 is millenium falcon
18:23 fgomez joined #perl6
18:23 uvtc She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid.
18:27 uvtc (Gah, forgot the french quotes. I wasn't talking to anyone in particular there --- just quoting some scoundrel who I heard say that.)
18:28 TimToady perl6: say q⌊floor⌋, ' and ', q⌈ceiling⌉
18:28 p6eval rakudo b27b21: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/FC0fwce6wQ:1␤»
18:28 p6eval ..pugs, niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«floor and ceiling␤»
18:29 uvtc r: say ⌊3.14⌋
18:29 p6eval rakudo b27b21: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/SZd0i8vdKr:1␤»
18:30 TimToady perl6: sub circumfix:<⌊ ⌋> ($x) { $x.floor }; say ⌊3.14⌋
18:30 p6eval rakudo b27b21, niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«3␤»
18:30 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "\8970"␤    expecting bare or pointy block construct, ":", identifier or operator␤    at /tmp/gGiBSLNxSp line 1, column 44␤»
18:30 TimToady uvtc: ^^
18:30 uvtc Nice!
18:30 TimToady but don't try it with |...|
18:31 TimToady that would be ambiguous with prefix:<|>
18:31 uvtc TimToady, though, might not be too useful in actual code, since they look so much like square brackets.
18:31 uvtc TimToady, (easy to mis-read)
18:31 TimToady and .floor is not much longer
18:31 uvtc yup
18:32 TimToady otoh we do support set ops in Unicode
18:33 uvtc Are there any Perl 6 easter egg unicode operators? Snowman, smiley, heart, ...?
18:33 TimToady n: say <a b c> ∩ <c a f e>
18:33 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«set(a, c)␤»
18:33 moritz
18:33 TimToady well, snowman/comet used to work as matching quotes due to a bug
18:36 uvtc What do you think of the versioning advice at http://semver.org/ ?
18:36 TimToady haven't looked
18:37 uvtc I'm looking to include simple advice to new module authors in the "creating and distributing modules" doc at http://wiki.perl6.org/Create%20and%20Distribute%20Modules .
18:38 moritz version numbers are basically meaningless until we get people to actually do releases of their p6 modules
18:39 uvtc Well, gotta plan for success. :) Is "Use major.minor.patch" good simple advice at this point?
18:39 TimToady 3-part versioning is a pretty old idea, actually; relabelling it "semantic versioning" doesn't seem to accomplish much, offhand
18:39 moritz uvtc: it's not bad
18:39 benabik semver.org basically boils down to "these numbers used to mean something, people!"
18:40 moritz uvtc: I for one like rakudo's YYYY.MM (with optional YYYY.MM.minor) scheme too
18:40 tadzik don't we have this described in S11?
18:41 uvtc I want to give succinct simple advice in the article.
18:42 tadzik sure
18:42 uvtc I see some examples of dotted triads at http://perlcabal.org/syn/S11.html#Versioning ...
18:42 tadzik aye
18:43 s1n joined #perl6
18:44 benabik moritz: Yes, that seems perfectly sensible for date-based releases.
18:45 uvtc Seems wise to set a precedent early on, to avoid having everyone use a different scheme and then panda trying to figure them all out. No?
18:45 tadzik true
18:46 fsergot joined #perl6
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18:58 uvtc Regarding a module's META.info file, in the perl6/ecosystem spec.pod doc, it says that "name" should be the fully-qualified name module name. What if the project you're distributing (having listed at the Perl 6 module directory) has more than one module in it? What should the "name" then be?
18:59 dalek tablets: 7f5ca90 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
18:59 dalek tablets: yaddas are now nicely linked
18:59 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/7f5ca9037e
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19:13 uvtc Ok. nm. From looking at existing modules, the current practice seems to be: have one main module, and name your project after it. If you need additonal modules, put them in a package alongside and named after your main module (Perl 5 style). For example, the Foo-Bar project would supply the Foo::Bar module plus some others, with the filesystem looking like lib/Foo/Bar.pm6, lib/Foo/Bar/Helper.pm6, lib/Foo/Bar/OtherHelper.pm6.
19:13 jlaire TimToady: oh, I see (re: character vs. grapheme)
19:26 mspaulding joined #perl6
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19:36 geistteufel hi
19:36 geistteufel I have a spectest which failed on rakudo
19:37 geistteufel http://pastebin.com/FCj0dHU6
19:38 koban joined #perl6
19:40 * moritz has a deja-vu
19:42 mspaulding joined #perl6
19:42 * moritz gets the same result when running as LC_ALL=C ./perl6 t/spec/S19-command-line/dash-e.t
19:46 nif joined #perl6
19:52 agilobable left #perl6
19:54 tadzik urgent: anyone flying from eu to Norway: does one need a passporrt?
19:58 [Coke] tadzik: http://www.visitnorway.com/en/About-Norway/Travel-facts/Before-you-go/Passport-and-visa-requirements/ ?
19:59 tadzik [Coke]: what does it say? I'm on the phone atm
20:01 mspaulding joined #perl6
20:01 benabik Schegen is the EU no passport zone, right?
20:02 tadzik I _really_ hope so
20:02 benabik Looks like they recommend a passport, but you need "an official document that satisfactorily establishes your identity"
20:02 benabik *you just need
20:03 tadzik is that what the website says?
20:03 benabik Yes.
20:04 benabik "Norway takes part in the Schengen co-operation and hence nationals from countries within the Schengen area do not have to show their passport when entering Norway. However you must show an official document that satisfactorily establishes your identity. We therefore recommended that you bring your passport."
20:04 tadzik cool, thanks a lot
20:09 * moritz brought his ID card last time, and there was no problem with that
20:10 moritz the German ID cards are like a passport, except that you cannot enter travel information
20:10 kst joined #perl6
20:11 moritz colomon++ # http://justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/abc-module-now-works-on-rakudo-and-niecza/
20:11 TimToady for overriding masak's time-travel entry, if nothing else :)
20:17 nif joined #perl6
20:23 [Coke] colomon++ for sprucing that up. need ot get my son using that.
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21:07 dalek tablets: bfb4e5e | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
21:07 dalek tablets: linking to more glossary terms
21:07 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/bfb4e5ef34
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22:16 fsergot joined #perl6
22:16 tadzik seen sjn?
22:16 aloha sjn was last seen in #perl6 8 hours 49 mins ago saying "fsergot: ok, cool!".
22:16 fsergot o/
22:19 pernatiy joined #perl6
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22:54 [Coke] why are there directions to tag the NQP release in the NQP directions AND in the rakudo directions?
22:55 tadzik Justin Case
22:55 tadzik there was once a package breakage in Archlinux because NQP was tagged incorrectly
22:55 tadzik so maybe it's duplicated just to be sure next time :)
23:06 replore_ joined #perl6
23:14 dalek tablets: afcb9bc | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
23:14 dalek tablets: all ops have anchors now
23:14 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/afcb9bc71a
23:15 skids joined #perl6
23:18 * [Coke] hopes stresstest passes on the first go. oy. ;)
23:21 * [Coke] passes the time by playing _the elements_ on loop.
23:22 tadzik oh wow
23:22 tadzik what we thought with fsergot to be a term:<now()> bug turns out to be just now() being so slow we were certain that rakudo simply hangs
23:23 [Coke] that's pretty slow.
23:23 tadzik aye
23:25 tadzik r: my $i = 0; loop { if ++$i == 1000 { last } }
23:25 p6eval rakudo b27b21:  ( no output )
23:25 tadzik r: my $i = 0; loop { now; if ++$i == 1000 { last } }
23:25 tadzik I'm quite certain it'll timeout
23:25 p6eval rakudo b27b21: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
23:30 fsergot :)
23:30 dalek tablets: acbaea6 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-b-grouped.txt:
23:30 dalek tablets: tidy appendix b
23:30 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/acbaea6556
23:35 [Coke] ok. I have failures in stresstest, but they are the same fails I've been getting on feather since i started running spec tests every day.
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 6fcae56 | coke++ | docs/announce/2012.04:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: reluctantly add myself; remove duplicate masak
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6fcae5611c
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 96ab007 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Add note about script requirement
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: (match other note earlier in the doc)
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/96ab007ef5
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 73b1756 | coke++ | docs/ChangeLog:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: update ChangeLog slightly
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/73b1756dcf
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 65ab8e3 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: nearly done planning...
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/65ab8e3d96
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 12411d0 | coke++ | VERSION:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 2012.04 bump VERSION
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/12411d0943
23:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 2e550a8 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
23:52 dalek rakudo/nom: Update step number. Add note.
23:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2e550a8202
23:52 dalek ecosystem: 414c220 | (Filip Sergot)++ | META.list:
23:52 dalek ecosystem: Term::ProgressBar
23:52 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/414c22023f

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