Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-04-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:21 dalek tablets: 2ca2024 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
00:21 dalek tablets: more anchors
00:21 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/2ca202460b
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01:28 [Coke] release complete
01:32 [Coke] # 04/19/2012 - rakudo++ ; niecza (94.78%); pugs (42.3%)
01:45 colomon [Coke]++
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02:15 [Coke] hearing no complaints, heading to bed. hasta mañana.
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02:34 japhb phenny, tell fglock It looks like perlito5.pl does not understand underscores in numbers; adding an underscore inside an integer results in 'unexpected function call at lib5/Perlito5/Expression.pm line 126.'  Checked with latest git.
02:34 phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when fglock is around.
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03:21 tadzik [Coke]++ \o/
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04:00 dalek tablets: 0657c21 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (3 files):
04:00 dalek tablets: sweat!! index A is now full anchored
04:00 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/0657c21918
04:04 dalek tablets: 210c9d9 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
04:04 dalek tablets: link true and false
04:04 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/210c9d9b3a
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04:14 dalek tablets: ef30824 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
04:14 dalek tablets: minor typo
04:14 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/ef308243d4
04:18 dalek ecosystem: 3d29056 | (John Gabriele)++ | README (2 files):
04:18 dalek ecosystem: Changed name of readme so it displays prettier on github. :)
04:18 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/3d29056688
04:27 dalek perl6.org: 5c9912d | (John Gabriele)++ | README (2 files):
04:27 dalek perl6.org: Renamed and cleaned-up some README.
04:27 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/5c9912db29
04:31 dalek perl6.org: e799a44 | (John Gabriele)++ | README.md:
04:31 dalek perl6.org: minor type/grammar fix
04:31 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/e799a44faa
04:44 japhb phenny, tell fglock Also, perlito5.js does not set a non-zero exit code when reporting a syntax error (or at least, not every time).  This messes up some testing code I'm working on that thinks perlito5.js can handle syntax that it can't yet.
04:44 phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when fglock is around.
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05:19 sorear good * #perl6
05:19 sorear seen jaffa4
05:19 aloha jaffa4 was last seen in #perl6 13 hours 46 mins ago saying "oslo is so far away".
05:19 sorear !seen dalek
05:20 sorear Hey, does anyone here know the pronunciation of Michaud?
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05:32 * moritz always proneo
05:32 moritz erm
05:32 * moritz always pronounces it as if it were French
05:33 moritz misheau
05:38 dalek perl6.org: 9f4aca6 | (John Gabriele)++ | source/getting-started/index.html:
05:38 dalek perl6.org: Added some text numbers and bullets to lists on getting started page. Also cleaned them up a bit, with minor updates.
05:38 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/9f4aca6658
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06:06 japhb What's the closest NQP equivalent to '(expr) for 1 .. 100' ?
06:07 * tadzik landed in Oslo o/
06:08 japhb o/
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06:19 moritz \o
06:19 moritz japhb: loop (my $i := 1; $i <= 100; $i++) { (expr) }
06:21 japhb moritz, thanks
06:23 japhb nqp: loop (my $i := 1; $i <= 100; $i++) { 1 }
06:23 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "loop (my $"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 22008 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7047) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:329)␤»
06:24 japhb nqp: my $i; loop ($i := 1; $i <= 100; $i++) { 1 }
06:24 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "loop ($i :"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 22008 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7047) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:329)␤»
06:25 japhb Is loop (;;) even understood by nqp?
06:25 moritz hm
06:25 moritz I thought so, but I might be wrong :/
06:25 moritz hm, seems I'm wrong
06:25 moritz then you need while
06:25 japhb nqp: my $i := 1; while $i <= 100 { $i++; 1 }
06:25 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
06:25 japhb Yeah, that looks like it worked
06:25 moritz nqp: my $i := 1; while $i <= 100 { $i++; 1 }; say($i)
06:25 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«101␤»
06:26 moritz [Coke]++ # rakudo release
06:27 japhb [Coke]++ # Ditto
06:38 japhb perl6-bench updated: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench
06:39 japhb Now tests perlito5.{pl,js} and NQP, as well as the previous perl5, rakudo, and niecza
06:39 japhb How can I add perl6-bench to dalek's project list?
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06:50 sorear japhb: misc/dalek-push.txt in mu
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: bf65aa5 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: Use install/bin/perl6 path for rakudo, in case this isn't already in PATH
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/bf65aa51e4
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: ba19ab2 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | README:
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: Add note about needing node in PATH for perlito5.js
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/ba19ab25d7
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: 8a827e4 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (3 files):
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: Add NQP (using github perl6/nqp project) to tested compiler groups; add WIP conversion of rc-forest-fire to NQP
06:54 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/8a827e4f9b
06:54 japhb sorear++
06:54 japhb Thank you, that worked like a charm, clearly.
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07:19 masak 'mounin', #perl6
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07:20 japhb o/
07:22 frettled moun moun
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07:24 * masak is in a meeting room for ~14 people, sitting alone with his laptop :)
07:26 japhb You're rarely alone when you're on #perl6 ...
07:26 masak troo.
07:29 arnsholt masak: Newly arrived at Storo, I take it? =)
07:32 masak depends what "Storo" is :)
07:33 arnsholt The subway stop for Linpro's offices where we'll be hackathoning =)
07:34 sorear heya
07:34 arnsholt Greetinks
07:34 masak [Coke]++ # Rakudo #51 Brazos Valley
07:34 masak sorear! \o/
07:35 masak arnsholt: yes, I'm at Linpro's offices.
07:35 masak arnsholt: I didn't so much "arrive at Storo" as "walk past Storo", 'cus I was staying at sjn++'s place :)
07:36 arnsholt Ah, walking distance is always nice
07:36 fglock o/
07:36 phenny fglock: 02:34Z <japhb> tell fglock It looks like perlito5.pl does not understand underscores in numbers; adding an underscore inside an integer results in 'unexpected function call at lib5/Perlito5/Expression.pm line 126.'  Checked with latest git.
07:37 phenny fglock: 04:44Z <japhb> tell fglock Also, perlito5.js does not set a non-zero exit code when reporting a syntax error (or at least, not every time).  This messes up some testing code I'm working on that thinks perlito5.js can handle syntax that it can't yet.
07:37 arnsholt But if we can arrive before 5, I might come in a bit earlier
07:37 fglock japhb: looking
07:37 japhb fglock, thanks!
07:37 arnsholt I should probably do some work first, but hackathon is more fun than work today =)
07:37 japhb nqp: pir::rand__NN(1.0)
07:37 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected NREG, expecting '(' ('$N101')␤  in file '(file unknown)' line 39␤␤»
07:38 japhb What's wrong with that ^^ ?
07:40 arnsholt Good question. Try to compile with --target=pir and inspect the result?
07:41 japhb arnsholt, I did ... and it didn't look any more weird than usual.  It's possible my PIR skills may have bitrotted a bit, of course.
07:43 arnsholt No idea in that case I'm afraid
07:43 arnsholt I did hack on NQP a bit, but that knowledge has bitrotted completely
07:45 benabik rand__NN is in the math dynoplib, not in core.  My guess is that NQP doesn't load that library.
07:46 japhb benabik, ah, you're probably right, thanks!
07:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 082dd1a | masak++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
07:46 dalek rakudo/nom: [docs/release_guide.pod] Frankfurt!
07:46 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:46 dalek rakudo/nom: \o/
07:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/082dd1a3fe
07:54 frettled masak: technically speaking, you're at Storo (sjn lives at Storo, too) – it's a place which the metro stop borrowed the name from, arnsholt is just rambling.  :)
07:56 masak gotcha. I'm at Storo, arnsholt is rambling.
07:56 arnsholt Well, yes. I figured I'd refrain from a lecture on the local geography of Oslo =)
07:56 arnsholt But yes. Also rambling
07:59 japhb ah-ha!
08:00 japhb benabik, looks like I have to specify --vmlibs=math_ops option for nqp
08:00 japhb Perhaps that ought to be default behavior under p6eval.
08:15 fglock japhb: commit eab75f8 accept underlines inside numbers
08:18 jnthn ohhai
08:18 * jnthn is at le hackathon :)
08:18 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
08:19 pmichaud japhb: often that error indicates that imcc doesn't have an opcode loaded
08:20 pmichaud in this particular case, it's missing the rand opcode.  ISTR that rand was removed from Parrot's opcode set.
08:26 japhb fglock, thank you.  Did you see the perlito5.js error exit code item as well?
08:26 japhb pmichaud, understood.
08:27 jnthn It may have been shufflted out into a dynop library
08:27 japhb Yeah, it was.
08:27 japhb Now I need to do 'nqp --vmlibs=math_ops'
08:27 jnthn It's the principle of conservation of startup time. I made it better in Rakudo recently, so Parrot had an equal and opposite reaction.
08:27 fglock yes - commit 7c5dd3b - set exit code on error
08:28 japhb fglock, EXCELLENT
08:32 jaffa4 jnthn: what are you doing at hackathon at the moment?
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08:33 jnthn jaffa4: Drinking coffee.
08:33 jnthn jaffa4: And thinking about doing something useful :)
08:33 jaffa4 LIke what?
08:33 jnthn Probably tracking down the MiniDBI pre-compilation bug first.
08:34 jaffa4 What platform will miniDBI support?
08:34 jnthn Whatever folks write drivers for.
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: 8387f88 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: Work around pir::rand__NN being moved to a dynamic op lib
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/8387f88985
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: 0a7cd05 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | nqp/rc-forest-fire:
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: More work on NQP port of rc-forest-fire
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/0a7cd053b5
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: 8e86e58 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | README:
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: Remove warning about perlito5.js false success from README; it was fixed by fglock++
08:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/8e86e58e6d
08:35 jnthn jaffa4: We have mysql working at least...thing there's some pgsql...
08:35 jnthn *think
08:35 japhb And with that, I think sleep is finally in order.
08:36 japhb Zzzzzzz ... &
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08:39 jaffa4 Would not it make sense to convert existing perl5 modules?
08:40 masak yes, sometimes it would make a lot of sense.
08:41 masak p6: sub foo {}; say foo.some_method
08:41 p6eval rakudo 082dd1: OUTPUT«Method 'some_method' not found for invocant of class 'Nil'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/ReyFqGCIrg:1␤␤»
08:41 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Scalar: "&some_method"␤    at /tmp/HYD3R00VZe line 1, column 17 - line 2, column 1␤»
08:41 p6eval ..niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method some_method in class Nil␤  at /tmp/PBfvgI07XG line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3841 (module-CORE @ 65) ␤  at …
08:41 masak r: sub foo {}; my $x = foo; say $x.some_method
08:42 p6eval rakudo 082dd1: OUTPUT«Method 'some_method' not found for invocant of class 'Nil'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/ozm4eqssxu:1␤␤»
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08:53 masak r: say "foo foo" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ $0/
08:53 p6eval rakudo 082dd1: OUTPUT«=> <foo foo>␤ 0 => <foo>␤␤»
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08:55 masak what is adding the '[old]' markers to the module descriptions in http://modules.perl6.org/ ?
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09:01 bbkr release \o/
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09:10 pmichaud std:  my ${a} = 5;
09:10 p6eval std 3d13d53: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of ${a}; in Perl 6 please use $a at /tmp/U81BT5Zh2x line 1:�------> [32mmy ${a}[33m�[31m = 5;[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:00 40m�»
09:10 pmichaud std:  say "Hello ${a}bc";
09:10 p6eval std 3d13d53: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of ${a}; in Perl 6 please use {$a} at /tmp/QbUYL6Snc6 line 1:�------> [32msay "Hello ${a}[33m�[31mbc";[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
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09:12 dalek nqp: 1e988f1 | jonathan++ | src/6model/serialization.c:
09:12 dalek nqp: When chasing the outer chain serializing closures, we may encounter a NULL lexinfo pointer. Don't follow it.
09:12 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1e988f19df
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09:26 sorear pmichaud: hi
09:26 pmichaud sorear: o/
09:26 sorear pmichaud: the question came up in sandiego.pm today of how your name is said
09:27 pmichaud sorear: depends on who you ask  :-)
09:27 sorear I'm certain mick-ow!-d is wrong
09:27 pmichaud its roots are french
09:27 pmichaud so, I pronounce it like "me" and "show"
09:27 masak pmichaud: before I met you, I imagined *you* were French :)
09:28 pmichaud paternally my ancestry is swiss, actually
09:28 masak I thought your English was quite good for a French-speaker.
09:28 pmichaud My English *is* quite good for a French speaker.  It's my French that suffers.  :-P
09:28 frettled :D
09:28 frettled pmichaud: you have been living too long among the heathens!
09:28 frettled or something
09:28 masak living too long on the heath.
09:29 krunen ok
09:29 pmichaud however, my wife is completely unable to say our last name
09:29 pmichaud and my father pronounces it differently as well.... so, "depends on who you ask".
09:30 pmichaud having spent a lot of time in Switzerland, I'm quite certain my way is closest to the original :)
09:31 pmichaud std:  say [1,2,3].abc<xyz>
09:31 p6eval std 3d13d53: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
09:31 pmichaud spectest says:
09:31 pmichaud dies_ok {[1,2,3].join<abc>}, '.join<abc> parses but dies';
09:31 pmichaud I think spectest is wrong here.
09:31 masak +1
09:32 pmichaud oh, wait, perhaps not.
09:32 masak that's just a method call and then a hash lookup.
09:32 pmichaud but it's a hash lookup on a defined scalar
09:32 pmichaud so that should probably fail
09:32 masak oh!
09:32 masak yes.
09:32 masak but it's perfectly valid Perl 6 syntax.
09:32 pmichaud it's even executable... it just returns a Failure
09:34 masak right.
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09:53 masak n: grammar G { regex TOP { <a>? }; regex a { <b> }; regex b { 'foo' } }; my $m = G.parse("foo"); say ~$m<a>[0]<b>
09:53 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1224 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 235 (Mu.Str @ 10) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/T4oDP25Uqb line 1 (mainline @ …
09:53 masak r: grammar G { regex TOP { <a>? }; regex a { <b> }; regex b { 'foo' } }; my $m = G.parse("foo"); say ~$m<a>[0]<b>
09:53 p6eval rakudo 082dd1: OUTPUT«foo␤»
09:53 masak r: grammar G { regex TOP { <a>? }; regex a { <b> }; regex b { 'foo' } }; my $m = G.parse("bar"); say ~$m<a>[0]<b>
09:53 p6eval rakudo 082dd1: OUTPUT«Method 'at_key' not found for invocant of class 'Nil'␤  in method postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1195␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/R6HYsqlJfc:1␤␤»
09:54 masak r: grammar G { regex TOP { <a>? }; regex a { <b> }; regex b { 'foo' } }; my $m = G.parse("bar"); if $m<a> { say ~$m<a>[0]<b> }
09:54 p6eval rakudo 082dd1:  ( no output )
09:59 bbkr rakudo: say "\x[10001]" ~~ /<[\x10000..\xEFFFF]>/ # is this expected behavior for RT 67122 ? Should we expect it to match?
09:59 p6eval rakudo 082dd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Invalid character for UTF-8 encoding␤␤»
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10:04 dalek roast: 546456c | pmichaud++ | S02-literals/listquote.t:
10:04 dalek roast: Correct a spectest that relied on .<abc> dying (instead of failing).
10:04 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/546456c159
10:04 dalek roast: 7b837e8 | pmichaud++ | S (2 files):
10:04 dalek roast: Some more spectest changes/fixes related to autoviv.
10:04 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7b837e803f
10:05 dalek rakudo/nom: 8658d94 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Any.pm:
10:05 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement hash autoviv.  Array autoviv comes next.
10:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8658d94890
10:09 re joined #perl6
10:17 masak r: class A is B {}
10:17 p6eval rakudo 8658d9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot call 'trait_mod:<is>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Attribute:D $attr, Any :rw(:$rw)!)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, Any :readonly(:$readonly)!)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, Any :box_target(:$box_target)!)␤:(Routine:D $r, Any :rw(:$rw)!)␤:(Routine:D $r, Any…
10:18 masak jnthn: why doesn't that error message give line-and-file? :/
10:20 arnsholt jnthn: Should .c files really be ignored in the Zavolaj repo?
10:20 jnthn Yeah
10:21 jnthn They only ever get generated when running the tests.
10:22 arnsholt The C files? t/*.c are checked into the repo
10:23 arnsholt .o and .so, sure. But the C code isn't generated AFAICT
10:23 phenny arnsholt: Service not found in https://github.com/nslater/oblique/wiki
10:24 arnsholt Huh. Apparently I found a feature ^_^
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10:24 jnthn arnsholt: We...have C files checked in?
10:25 jnthn Oh...so we do
10:25 jnthn duh :)
10:25 jnthn It's the objct files that are generated
10:25 jnthn Sorry, brain fail
10:25 jnthn Yeah, they likely should not be in .gitignore then.
10:27 daxim joined #perl6
10:27 arnsholt Fixed in my cstruct-work branch
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10:30 jaffa4 What perl 5 module would you convert first into perl 6?
10:31 jaffa4 What are the most influential?
10:31 brrt LWP
10:32 masak DBIX::Class
10:32 masak Moose :P
10:32 daxim splain
10:32 * daxim needs all the help a newbie can get
10:33 nwc10 this isn't the answer to "what to convert", but I think if there *is* a single most influential module, it's DBI
10:34 nwc10 given that it provides a unified interface to different databases (and even non-databases)
10:34 nwc10 a unification which even certain other dynamic languages have failed to copy/steal/imitate/flatter
10:34 lestrrat joined #perl6
10:35 nwc10 as to "what to convert" - find a task that needs doing, that's currently done in Perl 5, and convert the modules it needs
10:36 nwc10 the components of the IRC logger would seem to be one good candidate for "things that need doing"
10:36 nwc10 as right now, the logger for this channel runs on Perl 5.
10:36 nwc10 See, Perl 5 better than Perl 6 :-)
10:38 dalek rakudo/nom: ff875ef | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
10:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Array autoviv, add a passing test file.
10:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ff875efe6f
10:41 daxim mberends has dibs on dbi
10:43 nwc10 other suggestion - look at the build process for Rakudo. Which parts are written in Perl 5 - which modules do they use?
10:44 nwc10 go for those. try to get the build process to be able to be self-hosting
10:46 flussence the "Volatile 100" list here would be a good start: http://ali.as/top100/
10:46 flussence (I think Text-Tabs-Wrap happened because it was on here at some point...)
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10:58 jaffa4 nwc10:  why should it be self-hosting
10:58 jaffa4 ?
10:59 nwc10 Unlike Perl 5 (well, the current and only Perl 5 implementation) Rakud requires an external VM to already exist.
10:59 nwc10 Right now, that has to be Parrot
10:59 nwc10 (but the aim is to be portable)
10:59 nwc10 if the Rakudo build process continues as-is, then *Perl 5* remains a build requirement
11:00 nwc10 (forever)
11:00 nwc10 which would mean that you can't build Perl 6 on a fresh system without first building Perl 5
11:00 nwc10 which seems a bit silly
11:00 nwc10 whereas if the build process becomes self-hosting
11:00 Juerd It wouldn't be silly if Perl 6 had a non-Perl name.
11:00 nwc10 then it's possible to ship compiled versions of the build scripts for the VM (or VMs)
11:01 nwc10 it *would* still somewhat be silly, I think
11:01 nwc10 Perl 5 won't last forever.
11:01 Juerd Would you find it weird if e.g. Python's build environment depended on Perl?
11:01 jaffa4 There are compiled version of Perl 6 already
11:01 nwc10 Juerd: I'm told that it *did* until a few years ago
11:01 Juerd Was that silly?
11:01 nwc10 yes. In that every build dependency makes it harder to install
11:02 Juerd Or just a logical effect of Perl being available on almost every unixy system?
11:02 nwc10 also, Perl 5 benefits from having as much of its build system be written in Perl 5
11:02 nwc10 dogfood improves the tools
11:02 Juerd Perl 5 is almost as prevalent as man :)
11:02 Juerd I agree
11:02 nwc10 Parrot suffers (partly) because it hardly uses any Parrot-hosted code as part of its build
11:03 nwc10 so no-one hacking on core Parrot gets to use (/suffer/fix) Parrot based tools
11:03 nwc10 long term maintenance is easier, the fewer languages are needed for the build
11:04 nwc10 and the more code that can be re-used between the interpreter/compiler bootstrap, and the installation of end-user code
11:05 nwc10 if "half" the support code needed to build/compile Perl 6 modules is written in Perl 5, then Perl 5 becomes a *runtime* dependency for developers using Perl 6
11:06 nwc10 also, partly, it's easier to target the single language "the Perl 6 we're building here" than "whichever variant of Perl 5 the system installed"
11:06 nwc10 sure, you can expect 5.8.4 or later in a current shipping OS
11:06 nwc10 but *only* 5.8.4 or later, which gives you a lot of different versions to test across
11:07 nwc10 and no confidence that the pesky "vendor" hasn't stripped out some of the core modules you thought you could rely on being present
11:12 nwc10 I think that's 16 stable releases to date, starting from 5.8.4
11:22 fglock nwc10: perlito build is self-hosted
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11:23 nwc10 cool
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11:35 dalek roast: 185bb09 | pmichaud++ | S02-types/hash_ref.t:
11:35 dalek roast: More spectest updates relating to autoviv.
11:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/185bb0937d
11:42 dalek roast: d98cf79 | pmichaud++ | S09-autovivification/autovivification.t:
11:42 dalek roast: More spectest unfudging for rakudo and autoviv.
11:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d98cf793e4
11:43 dalek rakudo/nom: bff4e5d | pmichaud++ | t/spectest.data:
11:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Add another passing spectest file.
11:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bff4e5d1b9
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12:03 grondilu How could I test OUTER here?
12:03 dalek rakudo/nom: e59619c | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/MROBasedMethodDispatch.pm:
12:03 dalek rakudo/nom: Eliminate use of %h.update(...) in the meta-objects.
12:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e59619c7a1
12:07 grondilu p6: module Foo { sub talk { say "hello" } }; package Foo { OUTER::talk }
12:07 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Illegal redeclaration of symbol 'Foo' (see line 1) at /tmp/u7uqJP6iV3 line 1:â�¤------> [32msub talk { say "hello" } }; package Foo [33mâ��[31m{ OUTER::talk }[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤     'OUTER::talk' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Potential dif…
12:07 p6eval ..rakudo ff875e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Redeclaration of symbol Foo␤at /tmp/mm3XijcxBp:1␤»
12:07 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** outer - not yet implemented: "&talk"␤    at /tmp/0iMEPcADqL line 1, column 56-68␤»
12:07 grondilu p6: module Foo { sub talk { say "hello" } }; package Foo { OUTER::Foo::talk }
12:07 p6eval rakudo ff875e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Redeclaration of symbol Foo␤at /tmp/mB5xQlBiOe:1␤»
12:07 p6eval ..niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Illegal redeclaration of symbol 'Foo' (see line 1) at /tmp/O0q_UX89mc line 1:â�¤------> [32msub talk { say "hello" } }; package Foo [33mâ��[31m{ OUTER::Foo::talk }[0mâ�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  &talk is declared but not used…
12:07 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** outer - not yet implemented: "&Foo::talk"␤    at /tmp/IF89CaJcZH line 1, column 56-73␤»
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12:14 grondilu nom: module Foo { sub talk { say "hello" } }; package Foo { use Foo; OUTER::Foo::talk }
12:14 p6eval rakudo e59619: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Redeclaration of symbol Foo␤at /tmp/7QqjvLSrPl:1␤»
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12:24 jnthn grondilu: fwiw, OUTER is nothing to do with packages and everything to do with lexical scopes.
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12:25 jnthn Oh, seems you know that, reading your code again, though
12:25 jnthn nom: class Foo { class Foo { method m() { OUTER::Foo.m } }; method m() { say 42 } }; Foo.m; Foo::Foo.m
12:25 p6eval rakudo e59619: OUTPUT«42␤Method 'm' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in method m at /tmp/tvQqmuYZHX:1␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/tvQqmuYZHX:1␤␤»
12:26 jnthn Hm
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12:26 jnthn nom: class Foo { class Foo { method m() { OUTER::OUTER::Foo.m } }; method m() { say 42 } }; Foo.m; Foo::Foo.m
12:26 p6eval rakudo e59619: OUTPUT«(timeout)42␤»
12:27 jnthn nom: class Foo { class Foo { method m() { OUTER::OUTER::OUTER::Foo.m } }; method m() { say 42 } }; Foo.m; Foo::Foo.m
12:27 p6eval rakudo e59619: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
12:27 jnthn pmichaud++ # can count scopes :)
12:29 jnthn nom: class Foo { class Foo { method m() { ::(('OUTER::' x 3) ~ 'Foo').m } }; method m() { say 42 } }; Foo.m; Foo::Foo.m
12:29 p6eval rakudo e59619: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
12:30 mucker o/ #perl6
12:30 * grondilu is back and reads code above
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12:32 * mucker has decided to contribute to fglocks code
12:32 grondilu ok but I'm trying to have it work with a module used with 'use'.  Not classes in the same file.
12:36 [Coke] p: say asin 3
12:36 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«0.1411200080598672␤»
12:43 dalek nqp: 77ee7b5 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
12:43 dalek nqp: Add OwnedHash, which will track hashes that need to trigger the SC write barrier if modified.
12:43 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/77ee7b589f
12:43 dalek nqp: 6f8ec7c | jonathan++ | src/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
12:43 dalek nqp: Eliminate use of %hash.update(...); that code ain't a hot path with serialization, the method ain't in Perl 6, and (most pressingly) the Parrot implementation doesn't handle hash subclasses properly.
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12:44 dalek rakudo/nom: c9905df | jonathan++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
12:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION.
12:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9905df943
12:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 7f62119 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.pm:
12:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Disable SC write barrier while loading CORE.setting.
12:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7f62119340
12:45 jnthn That seems to fix pre-compilation issues with MiniDBI.
12:46 frettled yay
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12:57 fglock mucker: yay!
12:59 jnthn tadzik: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ti​cket/Display.html?id=71812 is a Pod related ticket - may be closable...
13:00 * [Coke] finds a rant about PHP:
13:00 [Coke] http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04​/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
13:02 [Coke] let's hope perl6's rant list is slightly smaller.
13:03 mucker fglock: anything specific to work on for a beginner like me :)
13:03 arnsholt [Coke]: It'll definitely be different, at any rate =)
13:04 PerlJam [Coke]: that url made the rounds here about 10 days ago  :)
13:04 [Coke] PerlJam: I found it because someone built this:
13:04 [Coke] http://www.flickr.com/photos/ra​indrift/sets/72157629492908038/
13:04 PerlJam heh!
13:06 mucker [Coke]: periodic table of perl6 operators  :)
13:06 mucker and people though $@#%\ were bad !
13:07 fglock mucker: the javascript libs are not-so-scary, src5/lib/Perlito5/Javascript/CORE.pm and IO.pm
13:07 fglock there are also some perl5 things in src5/util/perlito5.pl
13:08 fglock you can also browser the parser and the several emitters
13:08 mucker But I get what larry is trying to do. He is trying to create the a language that describes languages :) I think It's better than giving up all hope and compromist with the ( )
13:08 fglock p5-to-perl6 is a hot topic if you want to tweak perl6
13:09 mucker fglock: I never really understood the diff b/w src5 and src6 ... can just just clarify ?
13:09 fglock src5 is the source code for perlito5 (a perl5 compiler, written in perl5)
13:09 fglock src6 is s/5/6/
13:09 * mucker I hate laptop keyboards
13:10 mucker with various backends, amiright ?
13:10 fglock src6 is the source code for perlito6 (a perl6 compiler written in perl6)
13:10 fglock yes
13:11 mucker I am paritcularly keen on the js backend. We just need to support the bare minimal syntax to put javascript out of its misery :)
13:12 fglock mucker: p5-to-js or p6-to-js?
13:13 mucker I'll get back to you this weekend. But I think I will start with the p5-to-js first. Mainly because I can step through the debugger and try to understand whats going on :)
13:15 mucker fglock++ for super clean source code :)
13:15 fglock cool - note you can also use the perl5 debugger on perlito6.pl (even when compiling to js)
13:15 mucker Awesome
13:16 * mucker can't wait for the weekend to begin
13:16 fglock mucker++
13:18 mucker fglock .. gotto go now .. see you :)
13:18 fglock o/
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13:30 jnthn pmichaud: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ti​cket/Display.html?id=77038
13:30 jnthn pmichaud: ^ can likely  be closed once you've done your current work
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13:56 pmichaud http://gist.github.com/2428890
13:56 pmichaud jnthn: ^^
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14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 51bfca4 | jonathan++ | src/binder/types.c:
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix regression due to some hashes now being OwnedHash. pmichaud++ for noticing.
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/51bfca46b8
14:30 [Coke] what's an OwnedHsah?
14:33 jnthn [Coke]: A hash owned by a serialization context
14:33 jnthn Well, that was previously serialized
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14:40 jaffa4 fglock: for perl 6 back ends I would modify niecza
14:47 arnsholt Hackathoners: Have you huys left linpro yet?
14:48 tadzik nope
14:49 tadzik still slac^Whacking
14:49 arnsholt Cool. Could someone come down and unlock the door for me? =)
14:49 colomon ooo, what's the status of things?
14:50 arnsholt Arrived a bit later than planned
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14:50 * colomon is going to have to hackathon vicariously through the #perl6 channel this weekend...
14:51 krunen arnsholt: salve is coming
14:51 tadzik . o O ( salvation! )
14:52 * masak .oO( I Salvute you! )
14:55 sjn pfft :-P
14:55 sjn on IRC, I'm "sjn", btw :)
14:55 tadzik :)
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15:05 [Coke] p: say 0 xor 24
15:05 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:06 masak r: say 0 xor 24
15:06 p6eval rakudo 7f6211: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:07 [Coke] I had a bunch of xor tests skipped earlier.
15:07 flussence xor is the boolean op, right?
15:07 masak how appropriate :)
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15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: aa2eb5b | masak++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: [core/Exception] output nested error
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Better than just "Error while creating error string"
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa2eb5b62e
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: c40f488 | masak++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: [core/Exception] whitespace fix
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c40f488b36
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15:26 pmichaud [Coke]: xor precedence?
15:29 [Coke] it was skipped in pugs presumably because it didn't exist. except it does.
15:37 [Coke] probably just some gross-level skipping.
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16:34 Ulti can you already do introspection of POD in Rakudo?
16:37 colomon Ulti: I think so.  (Not my area, but if no one else is answering...)
16:39 Ulti just reading the perl6.org faq if some of this stuff is in Rakudo already it makes it extra neat, especially if I can package up my perl6 programs as bytecode with parrot
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16:52 benabik I believe the $=pod variable works.
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18:41 fglock_ phenny, tell japhb This seems to work (I can't see colors in this terminal): $ node perlito5.js -Isrc5/lib rc-forest-fire
18:41 phenny fglock_: I'll pass that on when japhb is around.
18:46 brrt r: my @a = [1,2,3,4]; say @a[0].WHAT;
18:46 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
18:46 brrt r: my @a := [1,2,3,4]; say @a[0].WHAT
18:46 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
18:48 brrt r: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4; say @a[0].WHAT
18:48 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
18:50 brrt r: my @a = 1, [2, 3], 4; say @a.[1].[1];
18:50 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«3␤»
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19:47 dalek tablets: 3d26b96 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (4 files):
19:47 dalek tablets: changed disclaimer - transition is over
19:47 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/3d26b9668c
19:50 lichtkind TimToady: is it fair to call $~MAIN a slang variable?
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19:57 [Coke] ooh, autoviv is back?
19:58 [Coke] pmichaud++
19:59 [Coke] masak: your name showed up 2x in tools/contributors. we should probably fix the tool to combine you.
20:02 TimToady lichtkind: yes
20:03 [Coke] (once as Masak, once as Mäsak)
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20:40 * fglock_ wonders about this line in perl5 t/op/sub.t: push @a, 24, 25, &{$x == $x}(26,27);
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20:41 nwc10 I think the comment above explains
20:42 nwc10 # RT #63790:  calling PL_sv_yes as a sub is special-cased to silently
20:42 nwc10 # return (so Foo->import() silently fails if import() doesn't exist),
20:42 nwc10 # But make sure it correctly pops the stack and mark stack before returning.
20:42 nwc10 no, I don't know why having PL_sv_yes end up as being returned from something in import happens.
20:45 nwc10 (the value put on the internal stack from == is PL_sv_yes)
20:45 nwc10 from != is PL_sv_no
20:46 nwc10 (that's canonical falsehood. That's the strange value that is the empty string in string context, and the value 0 in numeric context)
20:46 fglock_ I was testing import existence with: if (defined &{$module_name . '::import'}) { $module_name->import(@$arguments) }
20:46 fglock_ I never thought it was supposed to use magic
20:48 fglock_ maybe because it could be inherited, but can() could be used instead; OTOH it is still kinda in the middle of compilation, so there may be some complications
20:48 nwc10 I don't know how it works. It doesn't break. It hasn't needed fixing.
20:48 fglock_ that makes sense :)
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21:01 jaffa4 : my @a = 1, [2, 3], 4; say @a[1][1];
21:01 jaffa4 r:  my @a = 1, [2, 3], 4; say @a[1][1];
21:01 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«3␤»
21:02 jaffa4 r : my @a = 1,1,1; say |@a;
21:02 jaffa4 r: my @a = 1,1,1; say |@a;
21:02 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«111␤»
21:02 jaffa4 r: my @a = 1,1,1; say @a;
21:02 p6eval rakudo c40f48: OUTPUT«1 1 1␤»
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21:16 lichtkind TimToady: thank you, you seen latest efforts ?
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21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 45ef4e2 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (4 files):
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Refactor autoviv methods to better handle type objects, use multidispatch.
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/45ef4e27af
21:45 dalek tablets: 3c38887 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-b-grouped.txt:
21:45 dalek tablets: hyper metaop are not really chevrons, just look alikes
21:45 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/3c3888796d
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22:27 [Coke] seen au?
22:27 aloha au was last seen in #perl6 4 days 3 hours ago saying "but please feel free to typeahead anything you'd like me to help with :)".
22:30 * [Coke] stares at Pugs, trying to figure out where the Any class is defined.
22:30 geekosaur Data.Monoid?
22:32 geekosaur actually Any is not a class (I hope it wasn't redefined, Monoid is kinda a bad thing to clash with)
22:32 [Coke] Any is a perl six class
22:32 [Coke] I'm trying to find where that is defined.
22:33 [Coke] It may or may not be a /haskell/ class.
22:34 [Coke] ah, mkType "Any" looks promising.
22:37 [Coke] (it doesn't help that I have no idea how to code in haskell)
22:42 _ilbot joined #perl6
22:42 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
22:42 [Coke] geekosaur: I'm not talking about a class defined IN perl6.
22:43 [Coke] (any isn't defined there.)
22:43 [Coke] (though I'd be happy if I could augment the internals there.)
22:47 [Coke] doesn't seem to matter what I put in src/perl6/Prelude.pm, it's ignored.
22:47 [Coke] I presume there is some build step that isn't being done by make.
22:52 [Coke] phenny: tell au I tried to add a ".Str" that could be invoked as a method on .Str, but my naive patch (now reverted) caused a conflict with the bare {{ Str }}; the table in Prim.hs doesn't seem to be able to handle aliases, so I can't say Str is the same as ~; so I tried to find where I could add a method to Any; couldn't see anything obvious (to a non haskell me) , but found Prelude.pm - figured that would be great, I can write it in perl 6... but any change
22:52 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when au is around.
22:57 [Coke] phenny: tell au at some point I realized if I did it for Str, I was just going to have to do it for all of the Cool types, so, lacking Cool, figured I'd just try to add it to Any.
22:57 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when au is around.
22:57 * [Coke] gives up for now.
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23:06 lichtkind moritz: which pperl version is on feather please?
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23:13 japhb_ IR clogs down?
23:14 japhb_ Hmmm, perhaps just really slow.
23:31 replore_ joined #perl6
23:34 lichtkind phenny: tell moritz i rewrote the html generator in perl and it does more now, please let the cron start this
23:34 phenny lichtkind: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
23:35 dalek tablets: fcffb67 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/build-html.pl:
23:35 dalek tablets: rewrote html builder in perl, renders index now how i like it even backround gone shady again
23:35 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/fcffb67cd2
23:44 dalek tablets: 24d42a1 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/index.txt:
23:44 dalek tablets: toc fits now on my screen
23:44 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/24d42a1f9d
23:51 japhb_ phenny, tell fglock rc-forest-fire now works with perlito5.pl, and quite quickly too.  However, for perlito5.js, it gets through the compile but dies at runtime (after printing the starting map) with this error: Warning: TypeError: Object [object Object] has no method 'next'
23:51 phenny japhb_: I'll pass that on when fglock is around.
23:54 japhb_ phenny, tell fglock And you might have thought it succeeded too fast to see because you supplied no arguments telling it forest size and iteration count.  The tested command is:   node perlito5.js -Isrc5/lib /path/to/perl6-bench/perl5/rc-forest-fire 30 20 100
23:54 phenny japhb_: I'll pass that on when fglock is around.
23:55 japhb_ phenny, tell fglock, er ... "30 20 10"
23:55 phenny japhb_: I'll pass that on when fglock is around.
23:55 japhb_ wheee
23:59 replore joined #perl6

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