Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-04-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sorear good * #perl6
00:01 japhb o/
00:08 japhb sorear, BTW, what was the actual use case you were looking to perl6-bench for?  (I have a couple use cases of my own that won't be served by the current 'bench' tool, so I'm curious if there is overlap in our needs).
00:09 sorear japhb: making changes to niecza and wondering how muhc slower it makes them
00:12 japhb Yeah, that was one.  I can see three ways to do that:
00:12 japhb 1. Run all tests against a given version, dump timings.  Do your own comparisons.
00:13 japhb 2. Cache old results; allow comparisons of current run against an old result run.
00:14 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
00:14 japhb 3. Automate the process of checking out and building particular versions, and do a run of each, compare across those.
00:18 allbery_b joined #perl6
00:22 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
00:30 dalek tablets: 6c086df | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (3 files):
00:30 dalek tablets: polish links and format
00:30 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/6c086df053
00:38 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
00:43 lestrrat joined #perl6
00:45 lestrrat joined #perl6
00:50 dalek tablets: 20b8c51 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
00:50 dalek tablets: simplify header and polish
00:50 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/20b8c5158b
00:51 lichtkind good night
00:52 whiteknight What's the current best way to submit changes to NQP, patch or pull request?
01:05 [Coke] pull request makes it easy.
01:05 [Coke] is this for nqp-latestS?
01:06 whiteknight yes
01:10 whiteknight Okay, pull request sent. Thanks [Coke]
01:11 lestrrat joined #perl6
01:11 wolfman2000 joined #perl6
01:21 scott_ joined #perl6
01:22 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
01:30 raiph joined #perl6
01:34 allbery_b joined #perl6
01:38 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
01:44 geekosaur joined #perl6
01:47 raiph r: macro f { quasi { my $a = 0 } }; f # golf'd 4 masak
01:47 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«Cannot assign into a PMCNULL container␤  in <anon> at /tmp/UisqLGWwy_:1␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/UisqLGWwy_:1␤␤»
01:47 raiph r: macro f { quasi { state $a = 0 } }; f # innerestin alternate, this works
01:47 p6eval rakudo 256e1d:  ( no output )
01:47 raiph r: macro f { quasi { state $a = 0; $a++ } }; f # but not this
01:47 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
01:49 raiph phenny, let masak know about http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-04-27#i_5503487
01:50 raiph phenny, tell masak http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-04-27#i_5503487
01:50 phenny raiph: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
02:07 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
02:14 lestrrat joined #perl6
02:17 geekosaur joined #perl6
02:31 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
02:37 oiig_ joined #perl6
02:43 allbery_b joined #perl6
02:48 orafu joined #perl6
02:49 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
02:51 geekosaur joined #perl6
02:56 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
03:04 dalek ecosystem: 31f6037 | colomon++ | META.list:
03:04 dalek ecosystem: Math::BigInt was made completely pointless once Rakudo got native big ints, so I'm removing it.
03:04 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/31f6037205
03:10 allbery_b joined #perl6
03:21 cognominal joined #perl6
03:23 Su-Shee_ joined #perl6
03:34 geekosaur joined #perl6
03:49 agentzh joined #perl6
03:58 sporous joined #perl6
04:01 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
04:02 jaldhar joined #perl6
04:27 thou joined #perl6
04:30 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
04:51 melatinini joined #perl6
04:54 melatinini hi, how can i explore the rakudo sockets interface?  can't find documentation on io::socket::inet and i don't think it's the same as perl5's...
04:55 preflex_ joined #perl6
04:58 geekosaur joined #perl6
04:59 sorear melatinini: trial and error?  asking people who have used it?
04:59 sorear melatinini: welcome to #perl6
04:59 melatinini haha, ok, fair.  i see that the rakudo star that came out today has some new www features :)
05:00 melatinini sorear: thanks!
05:01 moritz o/
05:01 sorear o/ moritz
05:03 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
05:20 wolfman2000 joined #perl6
05:37 kaleem joined #perl6
05:40 sudokode joined #perl6
05:48 wtw joined #perl6
05:55 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
06:16 allbery_b joined #perl6
06:19 fhelmberger joined #perl6
06:57 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
06:59 masak good actual morning, #perl6
06:59 phenny masak: 01:50Z <raiph> tell masak http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-04-27#i_5503487
06:59 * masak backlogs
06:59 masak huh. raiph++
07:01 brrt joined #perl6
07:03 masak melatinini: or you could read the source code: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/IO/Socket/INET.pm
07:03 masak probably the easiest way to get into things.
07:05 erkan joined #perl6
07:16 NamelessTee joined #perl6
07:26 fgomez joined #perl6
07:26 frettled masak o/
07:26 frettled Good late morning :D
07:27 moritz note that much of the networking code is also in IO/Socket.pm
07:28 masak oh, point.
07:28 tadzik hmm, I think setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH can be fixed outside of zavolaj after all
07:29 moritz do makefiles under windows allow  ENVVAR=value programtorun  syntax?
07:29 tadzik imagine a Configure.pm, which gets require()d by Panda code and something gets run inside. This something sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH, so it stays for subprocesses. Thus when we later do perl6 --target=pir or run tests, the variable stays
07:29 tadzik I really don't want to fall back to using makefiles
07:30 moritz tadzik: what's the state of the setenv branch?
07:30 tadzik moritz: worksforme
07:30 tadzik no tests
07:30 moritz \o/
07:31 tadzik and zavolaj eventually works without its help anyway :)
07:31 moritz testing shouldn't be too hard
07:31 tadzik cross-platform testing may be tough
07:32 moritz %*ENV<foo> = 'bar'; is_run 'say %*ENV<foo>', "bar\n"
07:32 tadzik things like %*ENV<FOO>; shell 'echo $FOO'; are not windows-friendly
07:32 tadzik well, can work this way, yes
07:33 frettled tadzik: why don't you want to use makefiles?
07:33 masak and what makes you think you can avoid it? :)
07:33 moritz cross-platform makefiles are incredibly hard to write
07:34 moritz sqlite status: 2 failing tests
07:34 masak IME, it just means you can't use all the nifty syntax of GNU Makefile.
07:34 masak then again, I've just been targeting two platforms.
07:34 agentzh joined #perl6
07:35 moritz one is because 1.90 returns as 1.9, which IMHO isn't wrong
07:35 frettled moritz: cross-platform is incredibly hard to do :)
07:35 brrt hey, i was wondering, if 6model is integrated to parrot core
07:35 brrt will it completely replace pmc?
07:35 * masak .oO( cross is incredibly hard to do )
07:35 moritz the other one is the "Malformed UTF-8" when getting the second row
07:35 frettled but these days, "cross-platform" usually means "works on RedHat AND Debian/Ubuntu"
07:35 brrt if so, what will happen to pir?
07:35 wolverian joined #perl6
07:36 moritz brrt: 6model and pmc aren't quite the same abstraction level
07:36 brrt and if so, what will happen to compiling-to-pir?
07:36 brrt what i'm wondering is, what abstraction level are they, then?
07:36 moritz brrt: 6model is mostly a way to store objects and their meta objects, but doesn't come with any object model
07:37 moritz brrt: so there would need to be a minimalistic object model on top of 6model, in which PMCs would be implemented
07:37 brrt so, pmc is an object model
07:37 brrt 6model is a meta-object model?
07:37 moritz brrt: oh, and we want to get rid of PIR even before that. The plan is to compile from PAST or similar to PBC directly
07:38 moritz brrt: 6model is not a meta-object model. It's a storage theme which makes it easy-ish to write your own meta-object model
07:38 masak the distinction between objects and meta-objects is deliberately blurred. meta-objects are just objects.
07:38 tadzik frettled: cross-platform issues I suppose
07:38 frettled In my experience, avoiding makefiles mostly means that you will end up reinventing them.  Badly.  I'm not sure why anyone would want to put themselves through that kind of pain.
07:38 masak moritz: up until now, I've considered 6model a small, bootstrapping, MOP-agnostic MOP.
07:39 brrt i'm reading the 6model overview pod right now
07:39 brrt 6model is implemented in C?
07:39 brrt pretty awesome, actually
07:39 moritz masak: in my understanding, that's not quite accurate. It has an API for a MOP, but not a MOP itself
07:39 moritz brrt: yes, 6model is in C
07:40 brrt also
07:40 masak moritz: ok.
07:40 brrt if you get rid of PIR, what will be the 'smallest' language for parrot? winxed?
07:40 brrt i was actually learning PIR a bit :-)
07:41 moritz winxed, yes
07:41 brrt ok, i can live with winxed
07:41 brrt winxed uses 6model?
07:41 moritz no
07:41 moritz it only uses parrot
07:41 moritz currently only nqp and rakudo use 6model
07:42 brrt ... so, let me get this straight
07:42 brrt benabik is going to integrate 6model into core and build pmc on top of 6model
07:42 moritz no
07:42 * brrt is confused
07:43 moritz at least in the scope of gsoc, benabik will write an abstract-syntax-tree-to-PBC compiler
07:43 brrt :-)
07:43 brrt seems reasonable
07:43 moritz he submitted two proposals, one was 6model, one was the compiler/compiler tools thing
07:43 brrt the PACT thing
07:43 moritz right
07:44 brrt so, he is going to implement PACT, which will replace PIR
07:44 moritz well, it's a step towards replacing PIR
07:45 brrt i see
07:45 brrt so, big project actually
07:45 moritz aye
07:45 moritz PIR is not a small language
07:46 brrt but, i still don't really understand the - planned - relation between PMC and 6model :-)
07:47 moritz 6model itself doesn't have a notion of classes, inheritance, roles etc.
07:47 brrt PMC does?
07:47 moritz that's something you build on top of 6model, as part of the MOP
07:47 moritz and PMCs use inheritance, for example
07:48 moritz so, to reimplement the current PMCs on top of 6model, you also need a small MOP that provides enough functionality
07:48 brrt ok, i get it
07:48 moritz you aren't the first to be confused by it :-)
07:49 brrt :-)
07:49 brrt this is more of a parrot discussion
07:49 brrt but, does parrot use garbage collecting?
07:49 moritz yes
07:50 moritz that's one of the few subsystems we haven't been tempted to reimplement in rakudo :-)
07:50 brrt if so, will an integrated 6model-into-parrot use parrots garbage collecting, or the current refcounting?
07:50 brrt :-)
07:51 moritz note that 6model uses refcounting only for certain things, not for the "normal" objects you use in the programming language
07:51 moritz mostly for things where order of destruction matters
07:51 moritz all the "normal" objects are collected by parrot's GC
07:52 brrt i see
07:52 lumi_ joined #perl6
07:52 cognominal joined #perl6
07:53 brrt somewhat relevant for my project, can i assume that whenever 6model is integrated, i can still use pmc's to connect the apache api to?
07:53 moritz sure
07:53 brrt awesome
07:54 brrt then i could wish for nothing more
07:54 moritz for your project, you must use the status quo
07:54 moritz and that means PMCs
07:54 geekosaur joined #perl6
07:54 moritz 6model in parrot is still in the future, and it's not clear in which time frame we can expect it to land
07:55 masak it seems it'll require quite a big change in Parrot.
07:55 brrt it seems like a huge project actually
07:56 tadzik whiteknight was saying something about "after summer" yesterday
07:56 tadzik It'd be lovely, but I find it quite hard to believe
07:58 frettled After summer and before Christmas.
07:58 brrt that'd be quick
08:01 masak depends on the Christmas.
08:01 masak and on the summer.
08:04 brrt short summer, maybe
08:06 masak Perl 6: the Long Christmas.
08:09 moritz as weird as it sounds, I think that replacing the object model in parrot is less work than, say, cleaning up the call conventions
08:11 masak possibly.
08:18 lestrrat joined #perl6
08:18 sorear tadzik: you find it hardto believe that 6model in parrot will be after summer? :>
08:19 tadzik sorear: Heh, now that you say it I find it quite possible :)
08:20 tadzik and again, I'd like to be wrong
08:20 araujo joined #perl6
08:33 masak all other things equal, I prefer to be right :P
08:34 brrt being wrong can be so much fun
08:34 brrt especially when you know it
08:34 brrt and others don't :-p
08:38 masak what is knowledge? knowledge is just sufficiently certain belief.
08:40 moritz or believe is just uncertain knowledge :-)
08:41 brrt i'd go with masak here
08:42 brrt although 'certain' is rather poorly defined
08:42 masak huh? our utterances are equivalent.
08:42 masak "black is just a very dark gray" -- "or gray is just a bright black :-)"
08:43 moritz well, we humans tend to have some estimates about how confident we are about our memories
08:43 moritz and if that confidence is high, we call it "knowledge". The threshold isn't fixed.
08:43 * masak .oO( at least, that what I recall reading )
08:43 brrt both stamements state the opposite thing as the 'defined' thing
08:44 masak well, neither thing exists if you look closely enough.
08:44 masak it's just electrochemical signals in wetware.
08:44 brrt very true
08:46 brrt i was recently wondering
08:47 brrt given that the brain has just one 'namespace' for words, regardless of how many languages you speak
08:47 brrt does the brain have multipe 'compilers' for languages too?
08:47 brrt or would it just be one, with different 'routines' per language
08:48 moritz masak: I kinda object to that sort of statement. It very much limits the concept of existence to some organizational layers
08:48 sorear brrt: I think it is wrong to say "one 'namespace'"
08:49 moritz brrt: is that true that you have just one 'namespace'?
08:49 brrt i recall reading it
08:49 brrt in popular media, that is; i havent studied in any detail yet
08:49 sorear My mental dictionary absolutely never confuses English/sake with Japanese/sake
08:50 moritz I for one don't have any trouble with some words that have the quite different meanings in English and German
08:50 brrt that could be due to different 'construction routines'
08:50 moritz but of course that could be context too
08:50 brrt well, neither do i - used to when i was a child though
08:50 sorear (hi, I just got done reading four books on psycholinguistics)
08:50 masak moritz: well, I used it only as a rhethorical point against "either 'knowledge' or 'belief' is more defined than the other".
08:51 moritz masak: ok, that usage I agree with :-)
08:51 masak moritz: of course the interesting bits reside in the emergent phenomena from those signals.
08:51 masak moritz: if you like this conversation, I strongly recommend Hofstadter's "I am a strange loop".
08:52 brrt sorear: fun, i read a lot of neurobiology, so i guess that is in many ways the 'other side' of approach
08:52 masak I think jnthn's brain has a single namespace for words, and that's why he makes cross-language puns all the time :P
08:53 moritz if there are namespaces, I'm sure there's a lookup facility across them
08:54 brrt something i'd like to study in the future :-)
08:56 masak I like the feeling of some part of my brain doing an instantaneous lookup of some word in some language I haven't used in a long time, all the while the rest of the brain goes "oh, is that so? how do I know that?" :P
08:57 masak also, somewhat annoying, sending off a lookup for the word for a concept in English, and $brain comes back with correct translations in French, Russian, Esperanto, and Mandarin, but no English.
08:58 envi_ joined #perl6
08:58 fgomez joined #perl6
08:59 moritz what about Swedish? :-)
09:01 tadzik I sometimes stick English words into Polish sentences, for I cannot recall the Polish word for it
09:01 tadzik sometimes it results in abominations like...
09:01 tadzik phenny: "prerekwizyt"?
09:01 phenny tadzik: "prerekwizyt" (en to en, translate.google.com)
09:02 tadzik yeah. It's supposed to mimic "prerequisite"
09:02 moritz phenny: pl "prerekwizyt"?
09:02 phenny moritz: "prerekwizyt" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
09:02 moritz cute :-)
09:02 brrt in the netherlands, a lot of people do that
09:03 tadzik yeah, it's apparently illegal Polish, according to two online dictionaries
09:03 brrt where you get a dutch version of an english word
09:03 brrt the english word is frequently itself imported from france
09:03 tadzik phenny: "rekwizyt"?
09:03 phenny tadzik: "prop" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
09:04 tadzik phenny: en pl "prerequisite"?
09:04 phenny tadzik: "warunek wstępny" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
09:04 tadzik yeah, no wonder I say "prerekwizyt"
09:05 brrt as an unrelated sidenote, why do many eastern european languages not fit into the latin alphabet?
09:06 tadzik most of them, I think
09:06 tadzik if not all of them
09:06 masak moritz: it has happened that I forget words in Swedish but remember them in English. but it's rare.
09:06 brrt most i know, at least
09:08 moritz brrt: asked differently, why should they fit?
09:08 moritz the larger the difference in language is, the less likely it is that it maps well to the alphabet
09:08 brrt good question...
09:09 brrt there are only so many sounds a human can make
09:09 brrt so, pretty much all languages can be captured by alphabet
09:09 moritz and latin only used a tiny subset
09:09 brrt true
09:09 brrt but what most western european languages have done
09:09 tadzik "there are only so many sounds a human can make"
09:09 tadzik clearly, you haven't heard enough Polish :P
09:10 brrt very little, in fact :-)
09:10 moritz brrt: well, most of western europe had been under Roman influence
09:10 brrt many western european languages have 'fitted' latin to their own speech
09:10 tadzik <obligatory brzęczyszczykiewicz video>
09:10 moritz like, being conquered by them
09:10 masak the Russian alphabet is a really good fit for Russian sounds. if you look at that and then at the stock of other Slavic languages, the ones with adapted Latin alphabets look like they made compromises of different kinds.
09:10 brrt true, but germany never has, and it fits comfortably - except for umlauts - into latin
09:11 moritz brrt: actually the south of Germany has been under Roman ruling
09:11 brrt not arguing that latin is the end-all alphabet
09:11 brrt ah, that is very true
09:12 frettled The funny thing is that the alphabet imposes changes on how people speak :)
09:12 brrt maybe english is the exception
09:12 moritz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Limes_Germanicus_2nd_c.png
09:12 moritz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Roman_Empire_125_de.svg
09:12 masak by the way, who says you need an alphabet at all? 中国人做得很好,尽管只有汉字。
09:13 * moritz
09:13 frettled masak: well, sometimes you need additional symbols to differentiate meaning
09:14 brrt alphabets are usefull especially because they prevent that mess
09:14 masak it's a fairly strong statement to make that hanzi are somehow more of a mess than alphabets.
09:15 brrt it is
09:15 masak I think I used to believe that a bit more before learning Chinese. :)
09:15 * brrt still would like to learn chinese
09:15 masak it's just a different factoring of things, that's all. gain some, lose some.
09:15 brrt hmm
09:16 brrt i guess that human visual pattern recognition is actually good enough to deal with hanzi
09:16 masak frettled: sure. modern Mandarin is generally bisyllabic, compared to the monosyllabic Classical Chinese.
09:16 brrt in which case, it is arguably good coding, in a way
09:16 frettled The following is based on my recollection of a book I read on code-breaking during WWII: the Japanese navy had an "unbreakable" cipher known as Purple.  Japanese uses to some extent the Chinese symbols for written language, and not an alphabet.  But when communicating about naval warfare, they ended up spelling things out in their own alphabet to ensure that there were no misunderstandings.
09:17 frettled This meant that the US intelligence section intercepting the encrypted messages could recognize warship names from other text, simply by the change in alphabet
09:17 geekosaur joined #perl6
09:17 frettled Pretty cool cryptanalysis, actually.
09:18 masak I think the two Japanese sets of kana count as syllabaries, not alphabets. </nitpick>
09:18 bonsaikitten frettled: slight misunderstanding of written japanese
09:18 frettled bonsaikitten: I may be misunderstanding, but US intelligence sure didn't :)
09:18 moritz arnsholt: there's still something wrong with the sqlite stuff
09:18 moritz arnsholt: I get different output when under valgrind :/
09:18 frettled ISBN 0-684-85932-7
09:18 moritz and valgrind still reports invalid reads
09:19 bonsaikitten frettled: japanese has three independent alphabets / writing systems
09:19 frettled bonsaikitten: I am aware of that.
09:19 bonsaikitten frettled: but yeah, kanji is close enough to chinese that you can read a newspaper and get the general idea from the other language
09:20 moritz that's the reason for the big JCK unification in Unicode
09:20 arnsholt moritz: Ah, that's annoying. Especially different results when debugging
09:20 masak neither of Japan's three writing systems is an alphabet. romaji is, though :P
09:20 jerome_ joined #perl6
09:20 sorear for the purposes of this discussion, are abugidas and abjads alphabets?
09:21 arnsholt Abjad, yes-ish, abuguida, kinda
09:21 arnsholt That a good enough answer? =)
09:21 masak kanji and hanzi are "the same", modulo the PRC's simplifications, and Japan's simplifications. but even after that, meanings have often diverged to different degrees.
09:22 lestrrat joined #perl6
09:24 arnsholt But abjads are essentially alphabetic, except for the decision that you don't really care about vowels
09:24 arnsholt Abuguidas fall in between alphabetic and syllabic
09:24 tadzik abjads?
09:24 tadzik phenny: "obiad"?
09:24 phenny tadzik: "dinner" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
09:25 arnsholt tadzik: Arabic and hebrew are the primary examples
09:25 tadzik aha
09:25 arnsholt Alphabets that only have signs for consonants, not vowels
09:25 arnsholt Of course, that's not entirely true for the modern varieties, but that's the gist of it
09:26 tadzik istr talking about those on the hackathon
09:26 tadzik regarding Egyptian names, Imhotep, Amenhotep etc
09:27 arnsholt Yeah, hieroglyphs are consonants-only
09:28 arnsholt I think it was frettled who mentioned that the standard scholarly pronounciation of Egyptian is in no way based on actual reconstructions of the language
09:28 frettled That wasn't me, that was someone else, but I might have said it.
09:28 lumi_ joined #perl6
09:28 arnsholt Right. One of the Norwegians I think
09:29 moritz I think it was krunen, but I'm not entirely sure
09:30 frettled That's plausible.
09:30 daxim joined #perl6
09:32 tadzik discussion.init: http://tjs.azalayah.net/new.html shows failures in all the NativeCall-using modules now, because there are no libraries available and the tests fail. Any ideas how to resolve this? I suppose module tests should skip() if the library is not available, I think that's how it works in Perl 5
09:33 moritz tadzik: no, p5 does it differently
09:33 moritz tadzik: p5 modules run a configure script that detects dependencies, and dies if they are not fulfilled
09:34 moritz tadzik: and the CPAN tester reports show that as "N/A" or "UNKNOWN" or so instead of PASS or FAIL
09:34 tadzik I see
09:35 tadzik so that would count as "prereqs ok -- NOT" in emmentaler, right?
09:35 tadzik some some Configure.pm support may be necessary
09:36 masak "prereqs ok -- NOT" sounds like something Borat would say.
09:36 arnsholt moritz: Do you have your sqlite code on github or something?
09:38 moritz arnsholt: yes, in MiniDBI, branch no_dsn
09:38 moritz just let me push the latest fixes
09:39 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
09:39 moritz arnsholt: make && PERL6LIB=lib perl6 t/40-sqlite.t
09:39 moritz arnsholt: that one exhibts the "Malformed UTF-8" or "Unaligned end in UTF-8 string"
09:40 moritz arnsholt: and https://gist.github.com/2507847 is the script that shows different behavior under valgrind and without it
09:53 arnsholt moritz: Well, that was annoying. But yeah, probably something fishy with zavolaj's pointers
09:55 arnsholt Don't have time to debug it right now, but I'll look into it
09:55 moritz arnsholt: no hurry
09:56 moritz arnsholt: I like our modus operandi: I let you handle all the hard parts :-)
09:56 moritz and in the end I'll say "look, I've written an SQLite backend for MiniDBI" :-)
09:58 mikec joined #perl6
09:58 arnsholt And I'll say "NativeCall makes calling out to C disgustingly simple" =D
10:06 moritz r: sub f($x) { }; say f.candidates_match(1).elems
10:06 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'f' will never work with no arguments (line 1)␤    Expected: :($x)␤»
10:06 moritz r: sub f($x) { }; say &f.candidates_match(1).elems
10:06 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«Method 'candidates_match' not found for invocant of class 'Sub'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/whcx9rFHd1:1␤␤»
10:06 moritz r: sub f($x) { }; say &f.candidates_matching(1).elems
10:06 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:06 moritz r: sub f($x) { }; say &f.candidates_matching(1, 2).elems
10:06 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«0␤»
10:13 moritz arnsholt: I've just pushed a new zavolaj branch, 'check-signature'
10:13 geekosaur joined #perl6
10:13 moritz arnsholt: it doesn't really work, and I'm not sure the approach is right at all, but it's a fun attempt
10:17 pernatiy joined #perl6
10:18 araujo joined #perl6
10:22 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
10:31 geekosaur joined #perl6
10:58 brrt left #perl6
11:02 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
11:04 geekosaur joined #perl6
11:15 fgomez joined #perl6
11:21 wamba joined #perl6
11:26 GlitchMr joined #perl6
11:45 Su-Shee LOL masak: "this tabula is intentionally left rasa" is amazing. :) I think I need this a) as a shirt, b) as a signature and c) had to retweet it :)
11:45 tadzik what does that mean?
11:46 Su-Shee tadzik: "making tabula rasa" -> clean slate, empty the table
11:46 moritz "tabula rasa" means, literally, "table empty" (empty table)
11:46 Su-Shee tadzik: "start new, over" etc.
11:46 tadzik hah
11:46 moritz clean slate would be an idiomatic translation, ye
11:46 moritz s
11:47 Su-Shee -is I added that accidently.
11:47 Su-Shee anyways. it's very funny. :)
11:48 masak :)
11:49 masak I also like the first scene of the pilot of "Dollhouse", where this line appears: "Have you ever tried to clean an actual slate?"
11:49 masak Dollhouse. watch it.
11:49 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
11:49 colomon loved that show
11:49 colomon o/
11:50 moritz \o
11:50 pernatiy_ joined #perl6
11:51 Su-Shee god I wish they hadn't cancled it..
11:51 erkan joined #perl6
11:54 colomon eh, at least it got two seasons and a decent chance to wrap up its stories.  (I'm still scared by Firefly.)
11:54 Su-Shee god I wish they hadn't cancled it, too :)
11:54 masak can't they, theoretically, un-cancel Firefly?
11:55 Su-Shee they could.
11:55 Su-Shee whedon works with the same range of actors anyways.
11:56 masak range? .oO( Jayne .. River )
11:56 moritz unless tadzik++'s sequel preventer kills the characters, of course :-)
11:56 Su-Shee moritz: alan tudik (alpha and I forgot his name in firefly)
11:58 Su-Shee and she who played in angel and in dollhouse whose name is on the tip of my tongue..
11:58 masak Su-Shee: Wash
11:58 Su-Shee eliza dushu of course and caiptn firefly who played the evil in buffy.
11:58 Su-Shee masak: yes!
11:59 Su-Shee eliza dushku I think.
11:59 tadzik moritz: shh, that's a secret project!
11:59 fglock joined #perl6
12:01 tadzik at least officially
12:02 fglock o/
12:02 Su-Shee haha. of course..
12:02 Su-Shee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Whedon large table of actors in the whedonverse ;)
12:02 colomon tadzik: while a sequel preventer would be nice, a remake preventer would be much more useful, IMO.  ;)
12:02 tadzik colomon: nice idea for a sequel
12:03 tadzik err, wait...
12:05 colomon tadzik: you need to refresh the Emmentaler page.  I fixed one project last night and removed another one from the ecosystem.  ;)
12:05 tadzik colomon: I will after $work
12:05 tadzik is ABC fixed?
12:06 moritz no, Testing
12:06 moritz I wanted to fix it, and found it already fixed :-)
12:06 colomon ;)
12:06 moritz ABC requires one or two fixes from jnthn++ I'm afraid
12:07 tadzik good :)
12:07 moritz https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112624 and https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112626
12:08 colomon moritz++
12:10 * jnthn is now mostly repaired and should be able to look at them soonish
12:13 pernatiy joined #perl6
12:13 colomon ooo, I see Bailador has also gone all green sometime in the last 24 hours.  ;)
12:14 oiig joined #perl6
12:14 moritz yes, because we've changed HTTP::Easy to my fork, which has the advantage of working :-)
12:14 colomon fork++
12:14 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
12:17 preflex_ joined #perl6
12:18 gAm joined #perl6
12:18 mikec_ joined #perl6
12:19 ZAZEN_co1pute joined #perl6
12:27 pmurias joined #perl6
12:28 replore joined #perl6
12:30 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
12:31 tadzik joined #perl6
12:32 tadzik yeah, it works now, for fork's sake :)
12:34 sivoais joined #perl6
12:40 pernatiy joined #perl6
12:44 FACEFOX joined #perl6
12:46 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
12:48 [Coke] prerekwizyt haderach!
12:48 [Coke] (catching up)
12:48 tadzik what
12:51 moritz Juerd: fwiw I'm pondering a p6ized replacement for MiniDBI
12:52 [Coke] your made up word reminded me of dune's "kwisatz haderach".
12:52 mikec_ dune!
12:55 geekosaur joined #perl6
12:56 moritz dude!
12:58 [Coke] nude!
12:58 [Coke] ... i don't like where this is going.
12:59 moritz rude?
13:00 [Coke] ah, that's better.
13:01 pernatiy joined #perl6
13:02 PerlJam food
13:04 pernatiy_ joined #perl6
13:08 GlitchMr42 joined #perl6
13:13 PacoAir joined #perl6
13:18 skids joined #perl6
13:21 moritz when I create my 'DBIish' fork of MiniDBI, what should I name the DBD modules?
13:21 moritz DBDish?
13:21 grondilu joined #perl6
13:21 PerlJam what's "DBIish" mean?
13:21 moritz well, it's like, DBI-ish
13:21 moritz :-)
13:22 moritz MiniDBI tries to be p5 DBI compatible as much as possible
13:22 moritz and I don't want to deviate from that without first discussing it with mberends
13:22 PerlJam and DBIish is a perl6 reimagining?
13:22 moritz right
13:23 PerlJam awesome
13:23 mikec cool
13:23 moritz well, it's not yet awesome. It's not at all yet
13:23 moritz just planning
13:23 * mikec is interested
13:23 moritz well, I have a bit of code already in a MiniDBI branch
13:23 PerlJam moritz: how about DBI6 and DBD6  ;)
13:24 PerlJam or DBIvi DBDvi
13:24 moritz PerlJam: I don't think we're ready for those big names yet
13:24 Su-Shee moritz: DBIchen ;)
13:24 moritz Su-Shee: :-)
13:25 Su-Shee or DBIje to honor mberends. ;)
13:26 arnsholt moritz: Isn't whoever made DBI (his name escapes me ATM) also doing something along those lines?
13:26 arnsholt Inspired by ODBC or something IIRC
13:26 moritz arnsholt: tim bunce worked a bit on DBDI, yes
13:26 arnsholt Tim Bunce, right
13:26 moritz arnsholt: and he uses ODBC as the internal API between DBI and DBDs
13:27 moritz arnsholt: I don't want that level of engineering (yet?). I want something as simple as DBI, but mor 6ish
13:27 moritz *more
13:28 PerlJam moritz: a very worthy goal
13:29 Su-Shee .oO(DBItje ;)
13:30 tadzik how about DBIesque?
13:31 PerlJam too long
13:31 moritz tadzik: I like the name, but I don't want to type it repeatedly :-)
13:31 tadzik :)
13:31 tadzik IDB?
13:31 PerlJam DBIx  ;->
13:31 tadzik erm, IBD
13:31 flussence DBS, for "DBI Bikeshed"
13:31 * flussence ducks
13:31 tadzik but then DBD is hard
13:31 Su-Shee DBItti :)
13:31 * moritz goes with DBIsh and DBDish for now
13:32 PerlJam moritz: good idea ;)
13:32 tadzik maybe DBIish, to be consistent?
13:32 moritz erm, yes
13:32 masak +1
13:33 arnsholt DBJ and DBE? =)
13:33 moritz I also considered 'MesoDBI', but "meso" is usually smaller than mini
13:34 PerlJam mu?
13:34 Su-Shee nanoDBI ;)
13:34 moritz mu/micro and nano are also smaller than mini
13:34 moritz and I didn't like CentiDBI or DeciDBI :-)
13:34 masak CentiDBI -- but I suggested that already, and I kinda like DBIish :)
13:34 grondilu How do I get a list of routines in a module?
13:34 masak grondilu: a module only owns its "our"-scoped routines.
13:35 PerlJam well, size isn't the important consideration anyway, it's the shift fomr perl5think to perl6think
13:35 masak grondilu: but if you're fine with that, just access its stash with, hm, .WHO
13:35 PerlJam s/fomr/from/  # weird
13:35 grondilu r: use Test; say Test.WHO
13:35 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
13:35 grondilu r: use Test; say Test.WHO.keys
13:35 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«␤»
13:36 moritz r: module A { our sub b() { } }; say A::.keys
13:36 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«&b␤»
13:36 moritz r: module A { our sub b() { } }; say A.WHO.keys
13:36 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«&b␤»
13:36 grondilu Isn't there a dummy module I could use to show you something about using modules?
13:37 grondilu Oh ok using it like this will do
13:37 JimmyZ joined #perl6
13:37 JimmyZ DBI::Simple
13:37 grondilu r: use DBI::Simple; say DBI::Simple.WHO.keys
13:37 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find DBI::Simple in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst1/lib/parrot/4.3.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, .␤»
13:38 tadzik we have a tendency for naming our modules ::Simple, ::Tiny, Mini* and so
13:38 tadzik and they often outgrow their names :)
13:38 JimmyZ or DBI::easy :)
13:38 grondilu r: use DBI::Simple; say ::Simple.WHO.keys
13:38 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find DBI::Simple in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst1/lib/parrot/4.3.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, .␤»
13:38 grondilu I don't get it
13:38 moritz JSON::Tiny is still as minimalistic as possible
13:38 moritz grondilu: I don't think JimmyZ answered you
13:38 grondilu r: use JSON::Tiny; say JSON::Tiny.WHO.keys
13:38 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find JSON::Tiny in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst1/lib/parrot/4.3.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, .␤»
13:39 moritz str: use JSON::Tiny; say JSON::Tiny.WHO.keys
13:39 moritz star: use JSON::Tiny; say JSON::Tiny.WHO.keys
13:39 p6eval star 2012.04: OUTPUT«Actions Grammar␤»
13:39 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
13:39 JimmyZ DBI::Tiny ?
13:40 moritz now, I'm building something bigger than MiniDBI
13:40 moritz but Tiny < Mini
13:40 PerlJam moritz: how is it bigger?
13:40 JimmyZ I'm +1 to DBI::Simple
13:40 JimmyZ Simple version of DBI
13:40 tadzik I don't think it's adequate
13:41 moritz PerlJam: well, at least I don't want to limit myself to staying smaller than MiniDBI
13:41 tadzik afaiu it won't neceserilly be simplier :)
13:41 moritz tadzik is right
13:41 moritz it's not about simpler, it's about more idiomatic
13:41 tadzik IdioDBI? :P
13:41 PerlJam moritz: Just call it DBI and let the future sort it out
13:42 tadzik PerlJam++
13:42 JimmyZ +1 to PerlJam  too
13:42 * moritz will think about it on his way home
13:42 masak yeah, DBI is fine too.
13:42 JimmyZ any way, we needs DBI
13:43 JimmyZ or DBI::Link
13:43 tadzik BDI: BataDase Interface
13:44 PerlJam In a way, even the Perl5 DBI is misnamed.  It's not about interfacing to just /any/ database, but primarily relational databases.
13:45 arnsholt To be fair, relational has been a pretty fair assumption until recently
13:45 PerlJam fair assumption where?
13:46 grondilu BTW is there anything for BerkeleyDB in Perl6?
13:46 arnsholt I think there's a Berkeley module in core, been there forever IIRC
13:47 arnsholt PerlJam: I've been assuming relational when people have talked about databases at least
13:47 arnsholt I mean, the rise of key-value stores is pretty recent, and relational has been dominant since the fall of structured DBs sometime in the 70s
13:48 masak grondilu: maybe there should be.
13:48 tadzik grondilu: I don't think so
13:48 tadzik grondilu: you can add it to Most Wanted list, or just write it yourself :)
13:49 masak arnsholt: basically, Codd's idea was revolutionary and carried us all the way from the 70s until now.
13:49 PerlJam arnsholt: key-value stores were around in the 1970s too, they were just much slower :)
13:49 masak right, noSQL is nothing new, really. just the name is new and hot.
13:49 PerlJam I think were in 2 round of history rpeating itself wrt databases
13:49 PerlJam maybe round 3, but my memory isn't that long
13:49 masak which is fine.
13:49 masak people need to question the fundamentals sometimes.
13:51 geekosaur joined #perl6
13:52 PerlJam DBI sort of assumes an SQL abstraction.  Perl 6 has a good chance of making that very pluggable.
13:55 grondilu also, isn't the distribution of rakudo-star kind of weird?   I mean, it's supposed to be a .tar.gz file, and yet once we untar it and do a "make", it still downloads the modules.  I don't have a regular internet access so this is not much convenient for me :(
13:56 masak and you're talking to us... how? :P
13:56 tadzik the worst thing about rakudo-star imho is the fact that you can't really make DESTDIR=foo install to package it nicely
13:57 * grondilu is using a public internet access
13:57 jnthn Huh, I thought the modules were included in the rakudo-star?
13:57 grondilu doesn't seem so.
13:58 grondilu unless it is specific to 2012.04.1?
13:58 tadzik I don't think so
13:58 masak I'm a bit surprised at this too.
13:58 pernatiy joined #perl6
13:59 masak I thought the modules literally were packaged with Rakudo Star.
13:59 grondilu Well, maybe I just missed something
13:59 jnthn Yeah, the release cand I built yesterday has a modules directory with a bunch of modules
14:00 masak oh phew
14:01 grondilu ah ok.  What I did download was 'rakudo-star-c92df22.tar.gz'
14:01 grondilu instead of 'rakudo-star-2012.04.tar.gz'
14:01 jnthn Oh...as in, the contents of the star repo?
14:01 tadzik oh, right
14:01 colomon joined #perl6
14:01 jnthn Yeah, the repo contains the things to build the relesae.
14:01 tadzik so apparently tagging did confuse users
14:01 colomon OOOOO, I can haz internetz!
14:02 masak today's autopun: https://www.google.com/search?q=zerg+rush
14:03 PerlJam grondilu's difficulty is good evidence that star releases should *NOT* be tagged I think
14:04 * colomon is watching his three-year-old get a tennis "lesson"
14:07 masak ...by Syrio Forel! :D
14:08 [Coke] PerlJam: I disagree.
14:08 [Coke] how did grondilu find that tag?
14:09 [Coke] he probably hit "download as tar.gz" - that button is always there.
14:09 grondilu yes
14:09 plutoid joined #perl6
14:09 masak ah. [Coke]++
14:09 [Coke] yah, rakudo-star-c92df22.tar.gz isn't a tagged copy, either. it's "whatever was master at the time."
14:10 [Coke] I do note that rakudo-star-2012.04.tar.gz doesn't have a description.
14:10 [Coke] that doesn't help.
14:11 grondilu I just clicked the big button 'download as tar.gz' on github
14:11 [Coke] yup, that's a github thing.
14:13 [Coke] Probably worth opening  github ticket to see if we (or they) can add some explanatory text.
14:13 [Coke] (or admin options to hide those buttons)
14:14 nebuchadnezzar joined #perl6
14:16 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
14:16 Juerd moritz: Could you give an example of p6ized DBI calling?
14:19 pernatiy joined #perl6
14:21 grondilu I've just compiled rakudo and now I'm running 'make install' and it takes much longer than it used to.  Seems like it is retrieving some modules.  That's new.
14:22 grondilu Ahhhh  ignore that ^
14:22 pernatiy joined #perl6
14:24 moritz Juerd: https://gist.github.com/2509680
14:25 pernatiy joined #perl6
14:25 masak \o/ # .fetchrow
14:26 masak hm, when would I want to use the 'while' thingy rather than the 'for' thingy? :)
14:26 [Coke] r: say (7**(e-1/e)-9)*pi**2 # jenny's constant xkcd++
14:26 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«867.530902863768␤»
14:27 colomon wow, Niecza complains loudly about t/spec/S02-magicals/env.t
14:27 colomon Insecure $ENV{PATH} while running with -t switch at t/fudgeandrun line 18.
14:27 colomon oh, wait, that was a typo on my part
14:27 colomon never mind
14:27 moritz masak: if you don't exhaust the iterator, you might need to call .finish on the statement handle yourself
14:28 masak [Coke]: I read that xkcd comic, but I have no idea what Jenny's constant is.
14:28 masak moritz: ah, point.
14:28 PerlJam masak: 8675309
14:28 moritz masak: so if you abort earlier, you might like the while-version better
14:29 masak oh, it's a song about a phone number. I see.
14:29 masak moritz: the situation feels somewhat analogous to file IO.
14:29 masak (where we use `for` in Perl 6)
14:31 cognominal_ joined #perl6
14:31 masak also, "[I've had enough of this 137 crap]" made me smile. :)
14:33 Juerd moritz: That's nice but please consider having a look at DBIx::Simple's method names. A few things: "all" isn't necessarily true, as it only returns the *remaining* ones. And "fetch" is lame; duh, of course we're fetching; what else would we do? :)
14:34 Juerd moritz: With DBIx::Simple I just named the methods after whatever they return.
14:36 PerlJam grondilu: how did you get to the download button for rakudo-star?  What led you to the github repo in the first place?
14:36 masak +1 on dropping 'fetch_'
14:36 masak it's like feeling the need to call get methods .getSomething
14:36 PerlJam [Coke]: I wonder if we shouldn't make a "project page" on github for R* and advertise that.
14:38 tadzik ooooh, coool
14:38 tadzik moritz++
14:38 tadzik moritz: how about rows being a lazy list or such?
14:39 grondilu PerlJam: I just went to http://github.com/rakudo/star/downloads with my web browser and clicked to the button
14:39 moritz tadzik: that's dangerous
14:39 PerlJam grondilu: and where did you get that URL from?  the announcement?
14:39 moritz tadzik: because most C APIs progress row by row
14:39 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
14:39 grondilu PerlJam: sorry I don't remember
14:40 moritz tadzik: and once you've progressed to the next row, you can't access columns from the previous one
14:40 grondilu Yes I think it was in the announcement.
14:40 tadzik I see
14:40 moritz tadzik: so you need to fetch all columns from a row inside the driver just for safety
14:40 jnthn Be careful with .rows
14:41 tadzik aye
14:41 jnthn .elems, .chars, .bytes etc all return *counts*.
14:41 tadzik good point
14:42 jnthn Agree "fetch" in the name feels like a kinda false minima though when it coems to naming.
14:43 [Coke] so, if it's coming from the announcement, we can just give them the full url, not the /downloads one.
14:45 TimToady the brain has at least two well-known but separate namespaces, one for nouns, and a different one for verbs
14:46 moritz do all natural languages have the distinction between verbs and nouns?
14:46 PerlJam with laziness, why not my @results = $stmt.execute(42);  # ?
14:46 TimToady I believe so
14:47 * jnthn tends to use noun-y names for methods for "I have this right to hand" and verby ones for "I'll have to do some work..."
14:47 moritz PerlJam: hm, good question
14:47 huf but it's fairly situational, we verb nouns and noun verbs all the time
14:48 moritz PerlJam: which, of course, leads to the question if we can't unify it with prepare in a nice way, and get rid of the statement handle abstraction entirely
14:49 TimToady but we know this because you get different kinds of aphasias depending on which part of the brain you damage
14:49 tadzik well, there's .do()
14:49 TimToady it's not something you derive by introspection
14:50 moritz btw MiniDBI does have .rows, which returns the count of affected rows by the last statement
14:50 pernatiy joined #perl6
14:50 moritz which is usually interesting for things like INSERT, UPDATE or DELETE statements
14:55 PerlJam does "my @foo = mumble" constrain the methods available on @foo?  i.e., could mumble return some object thingy that happens to do Positional, but also some other roles and would the methods of those other roles be preserved in @foo or would one need to use binding to keep them?
14:55 moritz PerlJam: my @foo = ...; always coerces the LHS to an Array
14:56 moritz you'd need binding for any other type
14:56 PerlJam that's what I thought.
14:56 moritz otherwise   my @foo = 1, 2, 3; would put a Parcel into @foo, which would then be immutable
14:56 jnthn It's not that it coerces it, so much as it STOREs the RHS in the array container.
14:57 TimToady the Latin alphabet can't even represent all the sounds of English, let alone other languages, hence all the digraphs in both consonant and vowel space
14:57 PerlJam I was just thinking about DBIish roles for result sets and how they would be applied or used if it were my @results = $stmt.execute(42)
14:57 TimToady though it's arguably a good 2-level-ish huffman coding
14:59 moritz PerlJam: DBIx::Class has this mechanism that a ->search call returns an iterator in item context, and returns all elements in list context. They consider it a complete nightmare
14:59 moritz PerlJam: I'd rather not repeat that kind of mistake
14:59 moritz rather be a bit more explicit, than implicitly magical and backfiring
14:59 * TimToady wants a shirt that says: "Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt."
15:00 PerlJam moritz: indeed.
15:00 TimToady or maybe "Professional language designer on closed course.  Do not attempt." would be more appropriate :)
15:00 GlitchMr42 joined #perl6
15:01 masak :P
15:02 * masak is impressed by the non-verbal teaching of verb forms over at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conjugaci%C3%B3n_de_correr.png
15:02 pernatiy joined #perl6
15:02 geistteufel joined #perl6
15:02 PerlJam moritz: DBIish has a better substrate in Perl 6 than DBIx::Class does in Perl 5.  I mean, we get handy things like Parcels and Captures and Cursors from the language already  :)
15:04 PerlJam .oO( How many other people are resisting the Wizard of Oz reflex? )
15:06 [Coke] on a closed spacetime loop.
15:09 TimToady Do not redesign.
15:10 moritz says the language redesigner :-)
15:10 colomon joined #perl6
15:10 masak "Professional language redesigner on a closed spacetime loop. Do not attempt."
15:11 PerlJam masak: I don't understand what the time of day has to do with conjugation in those pictures  :)
15:12 moritz PerlJam: it's supposed to show the tenses
15:12 moritz morning = past, midday = present, evening = future
15:13 masak PerlJam: the sun is up when the speaker tells the listener about the act. the positions of the sun and the moon then give clues as to whether the act described takes part in the past, present, or future.
15:15 jnthn It would be neat if there was a language where you had to conjugate differently in the morning though.
15:15 jnthn Maybe the morning conjugations are simpler, due to lack of coffee consumption, or something.
15:15 PerlJam My trailing smiley was meant as a "deliberate nonunderstanding" marker
15:15 moritz jnthn: there's this nice sketch from Loriot about a woman who learns for her yodel diploma
15:16 moritz jnthn: and she has to learn the lyrics, and at some point she mixes up some words, and the teach says "no, that would be second future at dawn" :-)
15:16 jnthn :)
15:17 masak l'autopun: http://twitter.com/kazarnowicz/status/195880144899022848
15:17 moritz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG6RyQCggdI # German only, I'm afraid
15:19 thou joined #perl6
15:19 colomon n: say 'aa' ~~ /:i aA/
15:19 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(2) text(aa) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
15:20 colomon n: my $a = 'aA'; say 'aa' ~~ /:i $a/
15:20 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Match()␤»
15:20 colomon n: my $a = 'aa'; say 'aa' ~~ /$a/
15:20 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(2) text(aa) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
15:21 dalek roast: 5be6e89 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S05-modifier/ignorecase.t:
15:21 dalek roast: Fudge new test for Niecza.
15:21 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5be6e89e6a
15:22 PerlJam moritz: where's the google translate button when you need it?!?
15:23 * masak decommutes
15:25 pernatiy joined #perl6
15:28 allbery_b joined #perl6
15:30 sergot joined #perl6
15:30 sergot hi o/
15:31 moritz \o sergot
15:35 moritz r: role R { has $.x }; class A does R { }; say A.new(x => 42).x
15:35 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«42␤»
15:37 geekosaur joined #perl6
15:48 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:49 pernatiy joined #perl6
15:51 pernatiy joined #perl6
15:54 pernatiy joined #perl6
16:00 pernatiy joined #perl6
16:04 JimmyZ joined #perl6
16:06 brrt joined #perl6
16:07 moritz roles++
16:13 FACEFOX joined #perl6
16:14 fglock joined #perl6
16:16 moritz 4 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 101 deletions(-)
16:16 moritz I like such patches :-)
16:17 thelazydeveloper joined #perl6
16:18 Vlavv joined #perl6
16:19 moritz oh dammit
16:19 moritz I pushed to the wrong repo
16:20 timotimo no worries, you should have a reflog of it and can push -f
16:21 moritz that's what I'm doing now
16:21 moritz it's just what I usually try to avoid
16:22 timotimo be glad you're not on mercurial, doing such recoveries there is probably much, much messier
16:22 timotimo i remember when i was told to just get a new clone of upstream to get rid of commits i made to the wrong branch
16:25 FACEFOX joined #perl6
16:36 FACEFOX joined #perl6
16:41 brrt joined #perl6
16:42 tyatpi joined #perl6
16:51 moritz https://github.com/perl6/DBIish
16:51 fglock perl is now in the "list of languages that compile to JavaScript": https://github.com/jashkenas/coffee-script/wiki/List-of-languages-that-compile-to-JS
16:54 moritz \o/
16:56 sftp joined #perl6
16:58 cognominal___ joined #perl6
17:09 fgomez joined #perl6
17:12 erkan joined #perl6
17:20 ggoebel__ joined #perl6
17:22 lichtkind joined #perl6
17:24 simcop2387 joined #perl6
17:28 tyatpi joined #perl6
17:35 [Coke] fglock: "make" in the top level fails:
17:35 [Coke] find: `t5/*.t': No such file or directory
17:36 fglock looking
17:38 fglock [Coke]: the Makefile was added to test perl5-to-perl6 compilation, that doesn't work yet - see the instructions in "README-perlito5" instead
17:38 [Coke] do you mean `find t5 -name "*.t"` ?
17:40 fglock the tests are now in t5/*/*.t (because there are more tests)
17:40 fglock this works if you build perlito5.js: prove -r -e 'node perlito5.js -I./src5/lib -Bjs' t5
17:41 fglock build perlito5.js with this command: perl -Ilib5 perlito5.pl -I./src5/lib -Cjs src5/util/perlito5.pl > perlito5.js
17:41 [Coke] the line in the readme has some failures, ala:
17:41 [Coke] *** t5/01-perlito/24-strict.t
17:41 [Coke] Can't locate object method "exp_stmts" via package "Perlito5::Grammar" (perhaps you forgot to load "Perlito5::Grammar"?) at x line 6.
17:42 * [Coke] will play more later. danke.
17:43 dalek tablets: f79d992 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (3 files):
17:43 dalek tablets: undo silly dounle and triple rule for link names === is #equal-equal-equal again
17:43 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/f79d992665
17:43 fglock looking
17:44 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
17:44 fglock the README is wrong, fixing
17:45 * masak home
17:45 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
17:51 [Coke] fglock: ok, now if I run that, I get a lot of output that looks like perl5, not TAP.
17:52 fglock [Coke]: this seems to work: $ prove -r -e 'perl -Ilib5 perlito5.pl -I./src5/lib ' t5
17:53 fglock note this is perl5-to-perl5; for perl5-to-js you need to compile perlito5.js
17:53 fglock I'll update the README
17:54 [Coke] fglock: I'm just cut and pasting the first line into the shell. the readme makes it sound like that runs tests.
17:55 fglock (updated)
17:55 [Coke] fglock: ah, much nicer, thanks!
17:56 replore joined #perl6
17:56 [Coke] fglock: https://gist.github.com/2511283 test failures, not sure if these are known.
17:57 fglock yes, perl5-to-5 needs some fixing, the node.js backend works better atm
17:58 fglock the "release" version should pass all tests, this is "dev"
17:58 fglock but dev is more fun
17:59 gfldex am i doing something silly or is this a bug? https://gist.github.com/2511334
18:00 [Coke] p6: https://gist.github.com/2511334
18:00 p6eval rakudo 256e1d: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in sub somesub at /tmp/HwMYepvlnl:3␤  in sub METAOP_HYPER_CALL at src/gen/CORE.setting:10701␤  in method postcircumfix:<( )> at /tmp/HwMYepvlnl:12␤  in <anon> at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:815␤  in any <anon> …
18:00 p6eval ..niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Unsupported use of | with sigil; nowadays please use | without sigil at /tmp/LGI4MhkOWQ line 10:â�¤------> [32m   method postcircumfix:<( )>($self: |$c[33mâ��[31m) {[0mâ�¤  $self is declared but not used at /tmp/LGI4MhkOWQ line 10:â�¤â€¦
18:00 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Cannot cast from VObject (MkObject {objType = (mkType "Foo"), objAttrs = <Hash:0xf6fdb119>, objOpaque = Nothing, objId = MkObjectId {unObjectId = 3}}) to VCode (VCode)␤    at /tmp/F3IP3ojSqA line 19, column 1-7␤»
18:02 gfldex n: https://gist.github.com/2511366
18:02 p6eval niecza v16-23-gaa61ed5: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $self is declared but not used at /tmp/EndlV58oNV line 10:â�¤------> [32m        method postcircumfix:<( )>([33mâ��[31m$self: |c) {[0mâ�¤â�¤i haz a subâ�¤Â»
18:02 gfldex niecza++
18:03 * gfldex files rakudobug
18:06 erkan joined #perl6
18:06 timotimo oooh, you can give gist urls, that's sweet!
18:06 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
18:07 simcop2387 joined #perl6
18:12 spaceships joined #perl6
18:17 masak I think moritz++ implemented that.
18:18 diakopter that was me
18:19 diakopter originally, and the first fix iteration, at least.
18:20 brrt joined #perl6
18:21 masak diakopter++
18:21 masak moritz can keep his karma point. he's probably done something I haven't ++'ed him for ;)
18:24 fglock README-perlito5 should be correct now
18:25 fglock masak++ # distributing good karma
18:26 erkan joined #perl6
18:26 erkan joined #perl6
18:29 * masak read that as 'disturbingly good karma' :)
18:29 [Coke] whyforno perlito dalek updates?
18:32 fglock [Coke]: do you want a commit bit? what is your github name?
18:33 allbery_b joined #perl6
18:35 fglock (added coke to Perlito)
18:37 moritz fglock: do you want to have perlito commits announced in here?
18:37 moritz fglock: if so, follow the instructions in https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/misc/dalek-push.txt
18:38 fglock you know it can be a bit off topic sometimes - perlito5 is about perl5, not perl6
18:38 moritz I wouldn't mind
18:38 fglock ok - I'll add it, you can remove later if it is too noisy
18:39 ggoebel__ joined #perl6
18:39 dalek rakudo/nom: dda5b09 | moritz++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
18:39 dalek rakudo/nom: hide some dispatchers from backtraces
18:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dda5b09563
18:40 fglock moritz: want a commit bit? I seem to be in a commit bit mood today
18:40 moritz fglock: yes, can't hurt :-)
18:40 moritz (github username moritz)
18:41 [Coke] fglock: Danke.
18:41 fglock moritz: added
18:41 moritz fglock: thanks
18:41 Chillance joined #perl6
18:41 dalek DBIish: 26983c0 | moritz++ | lib/DBDish/SQLite.pm6:
18:41 dalek DBIish: [sqlite] implement disconnect method
18:41 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/26983c083c
18:42 fglock masak: I've added you to Perlito in github
18:44 dalek Perlito: 059f9af | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | README-perlito5:
18:44 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - fix README instructions
18:44 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/059f9aff02
18:44 dalek Perlito: e518f94 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
18:44 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - fix README instructions; rebuild
18:44 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/e518f94236
18:44 dalek Perlito: 1e2d817 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | README-perlito5:
18:44 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - move node.js README instructions up
18:44 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/1e2d817323
18:44 fglock yay
18:45 masak fglock: hey, thanks! :)
18:45 masak not sure I'll have lots of time to hack on it, but good to have a commitbit, I guess.
18:47 fglock all tuits are round
18:50 ggoebel__ joined #perl6
18:51 dalek DBIish: ecdc343 | moritz++ | lib/DBDish (2 files):
18:51 dalek DBIish: [Pg] make fetching of hashes a "bit" simpler
18:51 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/ecdc343fb2
18:51 moritz this commit illustrates how much more mature and usable rakudo is today
18:51 moritz compared to what mberends++ and friends had to write some years ago
18:52 pernatiy joined #perl6
18:55 dalek DBIish: 37d1e6e | moritz++ | / (2 files):
18:55 dalek DBIish: update credits
18:55 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/37d1e6e0da
18:56 sorear good * #perl6
18:56 mucker joined #perl6
18:57 moritz \o sorear
18:57 fglock o/
18:59 fglock sorear: I've added you to Perlito in github
19:03 ggoebel__ joined #perl6
19:05 sorear fglock: hmm?  why>
19:05 moritz fishing for contributors :-)
19:05 PerlJam sorear: because you're *Awesome*.   :)
19:06 dalek Perlito: 7a5d100 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
19:06 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl5: document emitter bug (significant parenthesis)
19:06 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/7a5d100236
19:07 fglock PerlJam: want a commit bit?
19:07 fglock sorear: because it's fun
19:07 ggoebel__ joined #perl6
19:07 PerlJam fglock: when I'm ready to actually contribute, sure.
19:08 PerlJam fglock: you could give me one right now, but I don't think I'd use it much (or at all)
19:08 fglock I think there are some cool things that could be done, I don't have time to do everything I'd like
19:08 brrt joined #perl6
19:08 Khisanth joined #perl6
19:10 fglock PerlJam: I can't see you in github, what is your name there?
19:12 PerlJam fglock: perlpilot
19:13 fglock done :)
19:16 LylePerl joined #perl6
19:18 ggoebel__ joined #perl6
19:27 dalek Perlito: f642820 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (5 files):
19:27 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl5: fix 2 tests
19:27 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/f642820cbd
19:36 dalek DBIish: c64574a | moritz++ | / (4 files):
19:36 dalek DBIish: Add fetchrow-AoH, fetchrow-HoA and mock-test them
19:36 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/c64574ab0a
19:37 masak names in commit comment don't match names in patch.
19:38 masak also, there's gotta be more memorable names than that :P
19:38 masak why not just fetchall-arrays and fetchall-hashes?
19:44 moritz what would 'fetchall-hashes' return?
19:44 jnthn .oO( .all-the-hashes )
19:44 moritz an array of hashes? or a hash of arrays?
19:45 masak .fetchall-as-hash?
19:45 masak I just think HoA looks unsightly.
19:45 moritz yes, but what would .fetchall-as-hash return?
19:47 masak a hash.
19:49 xinming_ joined #perl6
19:55 dalek DBIish: 1499f8d | moritz++ | / (2 files):
19:55 dalek DBIish: rename methods, masak++
19:55 dalek DBIish:
19:55 dalek DBIish: they are now called fetchall-array and fetchall-hash
19:55 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/1499f8d030
19:55 masak \o/
19:57 fglock jnthn: do you want a commit bit for Perlito?
19:58 masak what, you ask him but not the rest of us? :P
19:58 [Coke] masak: please, you know you just file bug reports, anyway.
19:59 masak granted.
20:00 masak fglock: so, assuming I find one or two bugs in Perlito... where do I send my spam^Wreports?
20:01 jnthn fglock: Can't promise I'll find particularly many tuits to contribute to it, but sure, can't hurt to have one.
20:02 fglock masak: because you already have one commit bit (I'm only giving one commit bit, if you want more you have to do it yourself)
20:03 masak fglock: I was kidding. but you gave all the rest of us commit bits without asking... :P
20:03 fglock jnthn: done
20:03 jnthn fglock: Thanks :)
20:03 fglock I thought it was more polite to ask first :P
20:07 fglock masak: I usually add the bugs to TODO-perlito5
20:08 masak how... manual. :)
20:09 fglock yes, very low-tech
20:13 fglock this makes it easier to group problems together and helps minimize the special cases
20:13 masak inneresting.
20:14 fglock special cases make the code big - not good for the browser
20:17 masak well, in here people seem concerned about not duplicating code paths, but not about code size per se.
20:19 moritz well, I am :-)
20:19 masak well, the perennial question is "why don't you, like, split the setting into multiple parts?"
20:19 masak that's implicitly about code size, I guess.
20:23 moritz anyway, I love roles.
20:24 timotimo understandably
20:24 uvtc joined #perl6
20:26 bruges_ joined #perl6
20:28 uvtc Just built R* 2012.04. Runs scripts faster than before. Quick startup.
20:29 timotimo is that the startup bonus from the bs branch or even more awesome optimisations?
20:30 uvtc Not familiar with the "bs" branch.
20:32 timotimo "bounded serialisation", it moved lots of startup time to the compile time of the interpreter itself by implementing serialisation of some bounded sort
20:32 jnthn Startup time improvements came from the "bs" work, for sure.
20:33 jnthn We still have room for improvement.
20:33 jnthn fwiw, it actually cut down compile time of CORE.setting as well as improving startup time.
20:33 jnthn So it was a win both for pre-compilation performance and startup performance.
20:35 uvtc For some reason the R* README doesn't mention that you need git installed to build R*. (BTW, on older Debian-based distros it was the "git-core" package. Now the package is just named "git".)
20:38 uvtc Ah. Yes. I brought up something related 17 days ago. It used to say subversion was a requirement. tadzik++ removed it, but "git" was not added to take its place.
20:40 moritz uvtc: I haven't forgotton about your proposal to reduce the output from the build; just haven't got aound to it
20:41 uvtc moritz, Cool. Thanks. I didn't want to ask you about it, because I can see things have been busy with the R* release, and also I think I saw that you're working at a breakneck page to get sqlite working. :)
20:41 uvtc s/page/pace/
20:42 moritz uvtc: arnsholt++ does all the heavy work for calling C functions, I just throw examples at him that don't work :-)
20:44 uvtc If I want to make a minor tweak to github.com/rakudo/star and then submit a pull-request for it, should I create a branch for that, or just make my changes to master?
20:45 geistteufel joined #perl6
20:46 moritz uvtc: a branch is generally safer
20:46 uvtc Whoops, sorry, nm, found https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Frew%27s-Recommended-Workflow
20:46 uvtc (which recommends creating a separate branch)
20:53 lichtkind uvtc: cheers
20:53 uvtc lichtkind, hi
20:54 lichtkind uvtc: seen recent changes?
20:55 uvtc lichtkind, Yes, lots of commits. I haven't been reading the Tablets recently though. Oh, I wanted to ask you: if I have a "term" I'd like added to the glossary, should I create an issue for that?
20:57 lichtkind uvtc: why no just insert it rightaway, which is it?
20:57 lichtkind uvtc: i added also lots where now by roughly 80, not all answered
20:57 uvtc lichtkind, "reify"
20:58 uvtc lichtkind, Oh, I see. You've got some terms in there without a definition.
21:00 lichtkind uvtc: thats what i ment with not answered
21:01 lichtkind uvtc: but i filled in just yesterday 5, were getting there
21:01 lichtkind uvtc: and to reify i read that often but dont have slightest clue
21:01 erkan joined #perl6
21:01 erkan joined #perl6
21:02 uvtc If only this channel had a resident linguist...
21:02 lichtkind uvtc: more important that lot of commits i have now clear picture what i want to have where and how to format things also made friends with markdown
21:02 uvtc lichtkind, nice. :)
21:02 lichtkind uvtc: his name is larry
21:03 uvtc lichtkind, I know. Should've added a `;)`.
21:04 lichtkind uvtc: so will you add it?
21:08 dalek tablets: 415a004 | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
21:08 dalek tablets: added "reify" to glossary
21:08 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/415a004929
21:11 lichtkind uvtc: good you want to titlecase terms?
21:12 brrt left #perl6
21:12 uvtc lichtkind, Oh shoot. Sorry, no. I saw "Regex" capitalized, and thought that was your convention. No, I prefer lowercase. Will fix both.
21:13 dalek tablets: c18b563 | (John Gabriele)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
21:13 dalek tablets: whoops - switch to lowercase
21:13 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/c18b5636bf
21:14 lichtkind uvtc: its fine i can fix it i just ask how we set rule
21:14 lichtkind one of the few thins im not decided
21:14 lichtkind because officially in english names are uppercase
21:14 lichtkind question is what we count as name
21:16 uvtc lichtkind, only proper nouns (like particular names of people, places, and things) get capitalized.
21:20 lichtkind uvtc: but is regex a name of a thing?
21:21 jnthn There's a type called Regex.
21:21 jnthn If you specifically mean that type name, Regex is probably right.
21:21 jnthn If talking about them in general, "regex"
21:23 masak yes. we do the same for 'Str' and 'string', 'Int' and 'integer', 'Block' and 'block'...
21:23 moritz but when you meet mr. Regex, be sure to capitalize him properly
21:24 uvtc Ok, hope I did this correctly. Added a pull-request to rakudo/star.
21:25 lichtkind jnthn: the type we spelled of course uc it was just about the term
21:25 jnthn moritz: Becuase if you don't, you get capital punishment?
21:25 lichtkind uvtc: it looks good
21:25 uvtc Gotsta go. o/
21:25 lichtkind hahah
21:29 FACEFOX joined #perl6
21:30 FACEFOX joined #perl6
21:31 Chillance joined #perl6
21:34 FACEFOX joined #perl6
21:35 [Coke] (star, git) git is only required if you're creating a star release, not if you're a user, no?
21:35 timotimo don't you need it to check out parrot and nqp or something?
21:36 lichtkind rakudo doesnt know "\a"
21:37 geekosaur joined #perl6
21:37 masak that rings a bell...
21:37 timotimo i don't think it does
21:37 masak lichtkind: if the spec doesn't mention "\a", its silence could be taken as "do like Perl 5 does", i.e. support "\a".
21:38 masak 'night, #perl6
21:41 lichtkind good night
21:41 FACEFOX joined #perl6
21:41 lichtkind masak last time i checked spec had \a
21:44 [Coke] looks like rakudo-2012.04.1/ (star) contains a copy of parrot.
21:45 [Coke] has all of:
21:45 [Coke] nqp-2012.04.1parrot-4.3.0rakudo-2012.04.1
21:45 erkan joined #perl6
21:45 erkan joined #perl6
21:45 fgomez joined #perl6
21:47 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
22:07 replor___ joined #perl6
22:10 envi_ joined #perl6
22:21 lichtkind TimToady: is \in "" and regex the same?
22:22 dalek tablets: 9082169 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
22:22 dalek tablets: hope to make more sense of escape seqences
22:22 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/9082169c3f
22:22 jnthn lichtkind: You mean, do they use the same escape sequences?
22:22 lichtkind TimToady: sorry i mant backsalsh n
22:22 jnthn oh :)
22:23 lichtkind ma chat client ate that i suppose
22:23 lichtkind \n
22:23 lichtkind no my fault
22:24 allbery_b joined #perl6
22:27 geekosaur joined #perl6
22:28 oiig_ joined #perl6
22:29 jnthn lichtkind: I suspect the difference may be that \n in a string has to commit to what it emits (platform wise)
22:29 jnthn Whereas \n in a regex may match various options.
22:29 jnthn I guess S05 has some language on exactly what \n does in regexes.
22:30 lichtkind jnthn: im currently reading s05 but its a bit confusing
22:30 jnthn yeah, here
22:30 jnthn C<\n> now matches a logical (platform independent) newline, not just C<\x0a>.
22:30 jnthn See TR18 section 1.6 for a list of logical newlines.
22:30 lichtkind jnthn: this im currently reading too
22:30 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
22:30 lichtkind just added confusion :)
22:31 jnthn lichtkind: http://unicode.org/reports/tr18/tr18-14.html#Line_Boundaries
22:32 jnthn I wonder if we should consider \r\n as a single grapheme under NFG...
22:33 lichtkind jnthn: had the page, the content is the problem :)
22:33 allbery_b joined #perl6
22:34 jnthn ;-)
22:34 jnthn lichtkind: Try more beer.
22:34 lichtkind jnthn: i had just a mouth full and thats anough, im currently und wheat grass juice - very healthy
22:35 [Coke] rakudo star buglet - "make rakudo-spectest" tries to run git pull on the exported t/spec
22:36 [Coke] jnthn: I am trying "shock top lemon shandy".
22:36 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
22:38 geekosaur joined #perl6
22:39 cognominal_ joined #perl6
22:41 jnthn [Coke]: Please file an issue for the buglet, if you have chance.
22:41 * jnthn -> sleep, given I got none at all last night...
22:44 [Coke] jnthn: star doesn't accept issues. rakudobug it?
22:44 sorear colomon: around?
22:44 colomon yes
22:45 colomon what's up?
22:45 sorear what do people expect fail to do
22:45 dalek tablets: 5841485 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
22:45 dalek tablets: clearify tilde op
22:45 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/5841485930
22:46 colomon sorear: honestly, I'm completely unclear on what it does differently from die, in practical terms.
22:46 colomon give me a second to dig up source
22:46 whiteknight joined #perl6
22:46 dalek Perlito: 26ef33e | coke++ | README:
22:46 dalek Perlito: fix grammar-o
22:46 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/26ef33eef4
22:47 colomon things like
22:47 colomon fail if !@lines;
22:47 colomon (that's Damian's code)
22:48 [Coke] jnthn: done.
22:48 sorear I think the idea of fail is that it's supposed to allow parallel operations to continue as if nothing happened, so that your hyper-maps can run to competion and return meaningless results
22:49 colomon sorear: naive understanding of it is it is basically shorthand for
22:49 colomon return Failure "blah"
22:50 sorear colomon: failure is a very magical type which does a number of mutually contradictory things
22:51 colomon sorear: I don't doubt it.
22:51 sorear which subset of the contradictory things do perl 6 programmers rely on?
22:51 colomon but     die "blah"     can by caught by CATCH, right?
22:51 [Coke] rakudo star spectest failures:
22:51 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/b44a0719b290f5a8ec16
22:52 sorear does it have to die in void context, for instance?
22:52 sorear what about in void context in lists?
22:52 sorear I'm extremely uneasy about the "void context eagerizes lists" thing
22:53 colomon that does sound... disturbing.
22:54 colomon probably the smartest thing to do would be for me to ask the European gang how they are using fail in the morning while you're asleep.
22:55 colomon sorear: gotta run, bedtime for the little guy
23:02 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
23:12 allbery_b joined #perl6
23:18 dalek tablets: a6d3f7d | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (3 files):
23:18 dalek tablets: add backlinks
23:18 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/a6d3f7dacf
23:21 geekosaur joined #perl6
23:29 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
23:34 colomon sorear: I'm back
23:40 dalek tablets: 3c8fc76 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
23:40 dalek tablets: added match object methods
23:40 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/3c8fc7632c
23:42 colomon sorear: actually, looking at fail.t is giving me a headache.
23:43 colomon Actually, it looks exactly like it was written by different people with a different understanding of how fail is supposed to work.  :)
23:44 colomon or at least, a different understanding that Damian and I have.
23:44 colomon for instance:
23:44 colomon my $exception = fail 42;
23:44 colomon fail()
23:44 colomon return fail()
23:45 colomon fail if !@lines;
23:45 colomon fail AnEx.new
23:45 timotimo yikes
23:45 colomon (where AnEx is Exception)
23:45 colomon fail('foo')
23:50 geekosaur joined #perl6
23:52 dalek tablets: ccd894a | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/styles.css:
23:52 dalek tablets: minor text color tweak
23:52 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/ccd894ae3b
23:53 lestrrat joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo