Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-05-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:39 dalek tablets: 3f82744 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
02:39 dalek tablets: repair unicode file
02:39 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/3f827440f9
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02:42 colomon sorear: out there?
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02:57 sorear colomon: hi
02:57 colomon sorear: no worries, I figured it out
02:58 colomon bizarre error message, but my stupid
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05:31 moritz \o
05:31 sorear o/
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05:42 moritz what's the name of the thing that a database query returns?
05:42 moritz it's not a table, because it's ordered
05:46 dalek DBIish: fa853a9 | moritz++ | lib/DBDish/SQLite.pm6:
05:46 dalek DBIish: [sqlite] remove unspecific code from backend
05:46 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/fa853a961c
05:47 moritz ah, ResultSet probably
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07:37 jnthn morning, #perl6
07:41 frettled apparently it is! \o/
07:41 sorear o/
07:49 moritz 'o
07:50 moritz sorear: what would be the best approach to get databases running under niecza?
07:50 moritz sorear: something like DBIish for niecza
07:51 sorear I guess indirecting through CLR
07:54 moritz is there some kind of module/package installing infrastructure for mono?
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08:25 tadzik oh skark
08:25 tadzik bah, mornings--
08:25 moritz shark it's tadzik!
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08:28 * jnthn wasn't happy to find the morning had arrived either
08:28 jnthn Moar sleep woulda been nice :)
08:28 moritz aye
08:33 dalek ecosystem: 5ed4b81 | moritz++ | META.list:
08:33 dalek ecosystem: add DBIish
08:33 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/5ed4b81110
08:33 * moritz just added the 100ths module to that list
08:35 tadzik \o
08:35 tadzik time to run smoketests
08:35 moritz note that DBIish currently needs a branch of both nqp and zavolaj
08:35 tadzik ach
08:36 arnsholt But I suppose we could merge that branch
08:36 moritz ie test failures with an out-of-the-box rakudo are to be expected
08:36 moritz arnsholt: please do
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08:36 arnsholt First of all, I was holding off for a bit of independent verification that my code wasn't broken in some obvious way
08:36 tadzik moritz: do DBIish tests rely on DBDish backends?
08:37 moritz tadzik: yes
08:37 tadzik ack
08:37 tadzik we do need some cool mechanism for those
08:37 moritz tadzik: over time I want to make them more robust, so that unavailable dbs simply skip their tests
08:38 tadzik would be cool, yes
08:41 arnsholt I suppose we could at least provide a mechanism via the dyncall ops to try to load a lib and die if loading fails
08:43 * jnthn suggests adding an extra op
08:43 jnthn And then a sub in NativeCall
08:45 arnsholt Yeah, that's what I was thinking too
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08:45 arnsholt I just have to figure out how to add an op to nqp_dyncall.ops
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08:46 arnsholt (I'd like to add a write-barrier op as well, to handle creepy action at a distance changes to C storage)
08:46 jnthn arnsholt: Edit the .ops file, inline op nqp_dyncall_can_load(out INT, in STR) { ... }
08:47 jnthn Something like that.
08:47 arnsholt Yeah, that looks familiar
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08:49 moritz fwiw I don't even know if I need such an up
08:49 moritz *op
08:50 moritz I'll just do   try { DBIish.connect(...); CATCH { skip "No DB connection: $!" , $number; exit }}
08:50 jnthn I suspect it's useful for implemetning the .bundle vs .dylib stuff, and good to have for other bits.
08:50 moritz yes, agreed
08:50 arnsholt Yeah, there's that as well
08:50 moritz just sayin' I'm not blocking on it
08:51 tadzik duh, panda suffers the same problem as URI, non-deterministic precompilation :/
08:52 moritz :(
08:52 dalek zavolaj: 16af23b | moritz++ | README.markdown:
08:52 dalek zavolaj: fix typo
08:52 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/16af23bbb3
08:52 dalek Perlito: ebce10f | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (5 files):
08:52 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - parser: add __END__, __DATA__
08:52 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/ebce10fb49
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08:55 moritz arnsholt, jnthn: should I delete examples/sqlite3.p6 (which segfaults), and instead point to working DBIish driver(s)?
08:55 moritz from zavolaj, that is
08:56 jnthn moritz: yes
08:59 dalek zavolaj: d9250b0 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
08:59 dalek zavolaj: remove segfaulting sqlite example, point to working DBDish/*.pm6 modules instead
08:59 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/d9250b0ac3
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09:06 * jnthn -> office, bbl
09:06 jaffa4 hi
09:06 jaffa4 How do you debug perl 6 programs?
09:06 tadzik with say(), usually :)
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09:06 tadzik and Grammar::Tracer for grammars
09:06 jaffa4 that is so archaic.
09:07 tadzik yes
09:07 moritz jnthn: you are welcome to contribute a proper debugger
09:07 moritz erm, meant jaffa4
09:07 moritz though jnthn is of course welcome too :-)
09:07 jaffa4 jnthn:  please write us a debugger
09:08 moritz jaffa4: please write us a debugger
09:11 jaffa4 Is there support for tracing, brackpoints?
09:11 jaffa4 brack=> brakepoint
09:11 jaffa4 breakpoints
09:12 arnsholt There might be a Parrot-level debugger, but nothing on the Perl 6 level for Rakudo AFAIK
09:12 jaffa4 WHat about niecza?
09:13 arnsholt Dunno. Never used it
09:13 arnsholt Probably some kind of Mono debugger at least
09:14 jaffa4 I guess then some kind of debugging should be inserted into generated bytecode
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09:20 dalek Perlito: b9c058b | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
09:20 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - parser: add TODO; considering whether to implement indirect object notation
09:20 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/b9c058ba20
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09:40 dalek Perlito: 486148a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
09:40 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - parser: simplify internal expression data structure
09:40 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/486148aef3
09:48 jaffa4 moritz: What is the state of Perl 6 in your opinion?
09:49 moritz jaffa4: evolving. Fun to use for early adopters.
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10:06 dalek Perlito: 1dd6050 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
10:06 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - parser: be more strict
10:06 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/1dd60507c5
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12:23 dalek Perlito: 88914e1 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
12:23 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - TODO update
12:23 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/88914e1a73
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 1972721 | moritz++ | src/core/Backtrace.pm:
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: warnings should include line numbers from user-space programs, not from the setting
12:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1972721e46
12:31 * [Coke] yawns.
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12:35 dalek roast: d9f7caa | moritz++ | / (2 files):
12:35 dalek roast: RT #112724, line numbers from warnings
12:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d9f7caae3d
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12:46 jaffa4 Coke: are you bored?
12:47 [Coke] jaffa4: tired.
12:49 masak moritz: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today gives an error message on IE9. "TypeError: Object doesn't support property or method 'hide'"
12:49 moritz masak: eeks
12:49 * JimmyZ is tired too
12:50 moritz masak: works here on IE 9.0.6
12:51 moritz oh, maybe I have js disabled
12:52 masak maybe.
12:52 masak which is a wise thing to do, no doubt.
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12:52 estrai is there a way to open/readir in rakudo?
12:52 moritz estrai: dir() lists all entries of a directory
12:53 masak IE 9.0.8112.16421 here.
12:53 moritz estrai: lazy lists make explicit iteration over directories unnecessary
12:55 * masak is tired, but less so than yesterday
12:55 estrai moritz: thanks, that worked, is there a way to use it with a glob?
12:55 masak moritz: that's actually a really good example of how lazy lists have emergen changes on the language.
12:55 moritz estrai: no
12:56 moritz estrai: but you can grep with regexes
12:56 moritz dir('.').grep: / \.txt $ /
12:56 * masak wouldn't mind a module providing XPath-like search capabilities for dirs and files
12:56 jaffa4 Is it true that one can one use regular expressions on files directly?
12:56 tadzik well volunteered! :)
12:57 masak tadzik: there's a weekend coming up... :)
12:57 moritz masak: no, not before you've blogged about t4 :-)
12:57 estrai moritz: how efficient is that, will it read all contents first and then apply the regexp or is it smarter then that?
12:57 masak moritz: +1
12:57 masak moritz: I promise.
12:57 moritz estrai: it reads them all (at least if you consume all elements of the result list). But glob needs to do that too.
12:58 masak jaffa4: on what, the file contents, the file name, or the file's last-modified timestamp? :)
12:58 jaffa4 on file contents
12:58 moritz I'm pretty sure you can't regex file contents without reading them in some way
12:58 moritz or at least mmap them
12:58 jaffa4 I mean regex on file handle or stream
13:00 moritz r: grammar A { token TOP { .*? (\w+) } }; A.parsefile('README') && say $0.Str
13:00 p6eval rakudo 0059aa: OUTPUT«Unable to open filehandle from path 'README'␤  in method open at src/gen/CORE.setting:6588␤  in sub open at src/gen/CORE.setting:6808␤  in method parsefile at src/gen/CORE.setting:8862␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/9RdQGzrdWw:1␤␤»
13:00 moritz r: grammar A { token TOP { .*? (\w+) } }; A.parsefile('/etc/passwd') && say $0.Str
13:00 p6eval rakudo 0059aa: OUTPUT«root␤»
13:01 tadzik hehe
13:02 moritz r: grammar A { token TOP { \N+ } }; A.parsefile('/etc/passwd') && say ~$/
13:02 p6eval rakudo 0059aa: OUTPUT«root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash␤»
13:07 [Coke] r: http://www.cnn.com/
13:07 p6eval rakudo 0059aa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/f63DG4u330:1␤»
13:10 masak [Coke]: what did you expect that to give?
13:11 [Coke] masak: perhaps a slightly more interesting error message, but not much.
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13:12 [Coke] r: 'a'..'z'.roll(4).say
13:12 p6eval rakudo 0059aa: OUTPUT«z z z z␤»
13:12 [Coke] r: ('a'..'z').roll(4).say
13:12 p6eval rakudo 0059aa: OUTPUT«k y r n␤»
13:12 PerlJam Coke: your forgot to load your custom HTML grammar first so that cnn.com gets translated to code
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13:13 dalek Perlito: 0cacd93 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
13:13 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - parser: add "local $x[1]"
13:13 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/0cacd93546
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13:16 moritz r: constant C4 = 0x10000000;
13:16 p6eval rakudo 197272:  ( no output )
13:17 moritz r: constant C4 = 0x1000000000000000;
13:17 p6eval rakudo 197272:  ( no output )
13:17 moritz r: constant C4 = 0x1000000000000000; say C4
13:17 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«1152921504606846976␤»
13:18 fglock clkao: hi!
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13:18 dalek tablets: bcf340e | (Chas. J. Owens IV)++ | docs/tablet-2-basic-syntax.txt:
13:18 dalek tablets: typo fixes
13:18 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/bcf340ea6c
13:18 dalek tablets: 3327915 | (It's secret to everybody)++ | docs/tablet-2-basic-syntax.txt:
13:18 dalek tablets: Merge pull request #2 from cowens/patch-1
13:18 dalek tablets:
13:18 dalek tablets: typo fixes
13:18 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/3327915084
13:19 masak clkao! \o/
13:20 moritz r: say '+' ~~ 34
13:20 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«malformed numeric string␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:8670␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2377␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2377␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:2159␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/7gE5uGTNsN:1␤␤»…
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13:35 masak r: say ('+' ==> ord) ~~ 34
13:35 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:36 masak right, 'cus it... isn't :)
13:36 masak r: say chr 34
13:36 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«"␤»
13:36 masak r: say ('"' ==> ord) ~~ 34
13:36 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:38 dalek tablets: 4798709 | (Chas. J. Owens IV)++ | docs/tablet-2-basic-syntax.txt:
13:38 dalek tablets: type fix
13:38 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/4798709f25
13:38 dalek tablets: 31b5d31 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/tablet-2-basic-syntax.txt:
13:38 dalek tablets: Merge pull request #3 from cowens/patch-2
13:38 dalek tablets:
13:38 dalek tablets: typo fix, cowens++
13:38 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/31b5d31a2f
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13:47 rurban I've got some packaging questions
13:48 moritz rurban: shoot
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13:49 rurban parrot-4.0.3 generated a parrot-nqp (no nqp). rakudo perl Configure needs --with-nqp=/usr/bin/parrot-nqp
13:49 rurban but then the Configure step generated a new nqp and copies it to /usr/bin
13:49 rurban is this the same nqp as parrot's?
13:49 moritz no.
13:50 moritz rakudo needs the nqp from github.com/perl6/nqp
13:50 rurban It should be forbidden for Configure to copy into prefix
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13:50 moritz uhm, does it?
13:50 moritz it only does for me if you use some --gen-<mumble> options
13:50 rurban I see. So --with-nqp=/usr/bin/parrot-nqp is wrong?
13:50 moritz which packagers shouldn't use
13:51 rurban It worked for me without the gen steps
13:51 moritz rurban: yes, it's worng
13:51 lichtkind eny git experts here, git say me that i have untracked files but there are none really
13:51 phenny lichtkind: 02 May 16:14Z <masak> tell lichtkind re https://github.com/perl6/tablets/blob/2c73ee9c1daf2d582711994d91e424d36caef7c2/docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt#L197 -- I believe you meant s/terms and statements/terms and operators/
13:51 phenny lichtkind: 02 May 17:48Z <sisar> tell lichtkind the navigation links at the top of Appendix A are broken, especially the symbols row. I tried to fix it, but my markdown knowledge is limited.
13:51 phenny lichtkind: 02 May 17:59Z <sisar> tell lichtkind i meant the navigation links just above the heading "Punctuation"
13:51 masak lichtkind: could you provide a relevant nopaste?
13:51 rurban Nexty problem: ./perl6.exe --setting=NULL --optimize=3 --target=pir  --output=src/gen/CORE.setting.pir src/gen/CORE.setting
13:51 daxim lichtkind, paste of your command and the exact output, please
13:51 moritz lichtkind: 'git status' gives you a list of untracked files
13:52 rurban Parrot VM: PANIC: Out of mem! ha :)
13:52 moritz rurban: it needs about 1.2G on 64bit systems
13:52 rurban I'm building in a VM with 2GB RAM
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13:52 masak Parrot says "ha :)" when it runs out of memory? :P
13:52 rurban I see. I need to document this.
13:52 lichtkind moritz: i tried that
13:52 rurban I said "ha :)"
13:52 moritz lichtkind: so, it told you which files were untracked?
13:52 masak I know. :)
13:52 tadzik rurban: you may need more than 2GB if you're on 64-bit
13:52 rurban Because just yestreday I posted my perl5 perlcc out of memory results to blogs.perl.org
13:53 lichtkind moritz: it doesnt
13:53 frettled 2 gigs should be enough for anyone!
13:53 moritz lichtkind: so how do you know there are untracked files?
13:54 sisar moritz++ (reporting line no. bugfix) It will help in debugging some panda issues. o/
13:54 aloha Karma for moritz is now 3121
13:54 moritz aloha: please stop doing that
13:54 lichtkind moritz: becasue it says so
13:54 sisar whoa 3121 !
13:54 moritz lichtkind: which 'it'?
13:54 rurban I'll retry with 4GB. cygwin package is coming soon
13:55 moritz rurban: thank you very much
13:55 lichtkind masak:  your right
13:55 daxim ~/code/perl/six/tablets/.gitignore is not part of the repo
13:55 moritz rurban: you'll hopefully notice much improved startup time
13:55 daxim `add` it and commit it
13:56 lichtkind moritz: git says :  Untracked files:
13:56 masak lichtkind: I'm right? great!
13:56 moritz lichtkind: 'git' itself doesn't say that. A subcommand of git does. Which one?
13:56 lichtkind masak: i mean the phenny msg
13:57 masak oh, good.
13:57 lichtkind moritz: yes status
13:57 daxim case closed.
13:59 rurban At first I noticed that it needs more memory :)
13:59 lichtkind sisar: yes one anchor was missing fixed now
13:59 moritz rurban: what was the last version you compiled before that?
13:59 rurban But my compiler behaves the same, solwer compile-time, more memory, but faster run-time
13:59 rurban last was 2011.07
14:00 lichtkind daxim: so i should add .gitignore?
14:00 moritz rurban: heh. 2012.01 took about 40% more than now :-)
14:00 daxim add it and commit it
14:00 rurban Yes, I skipped all those
14:00 dalek tablets: 194b1cc | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
14:00 dalek tablets: added missing anchor
14:00 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/194b1cc5db
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14:04 dalek tablets: 2a74194 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | .gitignore:
14:04 dalek tablets: finally added gitignore
14:04 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/2a74194a43
14:04 lichtkind sorry for inconveniance i read that message as if .gitignore will tell something
14:06 daxim you have both .gitignore and docs/.gitignore  --  delete docs/.gitignore
14:07 [Coke] daxim: perhaps you mean "merge them into a singl .gitignore"
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14:09 rurban Maybe I'll try an android cross-build then. Anyone tried before?
14:10 rurban cygwin 32-bit only needed about free 500MB RAM
14:12 rurban make spectest fails now in a non .git builddir. cd t/spec && git pull
14:13 rurban spectest_update should maybe check for .git and clone it then
14:13 moritz rurban: that line in the Makefile has a - in front, which most make commands interpret as 'it's ok if this command fails'
14:13 tokuhirom joined #perl6
14:13 moritz rurban: does the make in cygwin not do that?
14:14 rurban I see, it works fine without
14:15 rurban S02-literals/quoting.rakudo and S02-magicals/args.t and some more fail. known problems?
14:15 moritz rurban: it has been reported on some platforms, but I don't think it has ever been diagnosed thoroughly
14:16 rurban I'll try. maybe a windowism
14:16 moritz rurban: can you please nopaste the output of   PERL6LIB=lib ./perl6 t/spec/{S02-literals/quoting.rakudo,S02-magicals/args.t}   ?
14:16 jlaire joined #perl6
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14:17 rurban RT 65304 fails, but not ok 94 - :pair<anglequoted># TODO << :pair(1) >> (eval failed)
14:18 rurban oh, and I got a fork error in perl6_ops.dll. need to rebase
14:18 moritz so it's a TODOed test that fails?
14:19 moritz maybe some version of prove that doesn't like certain characters in the TODO message?
14:19 rurban everything alright. it's a cygwin rebase problem
14:19 rurban I need to rebase the dll's before running the tests
14:20 rurban 94 is a TODO
14:20 rurban I have to do the same with perl5
14:23 rurban And all the copies of cygparrot-4.3.0.dll do not help with rebase problkems at all. makes it worse. better have only one in /usr/bin/
14:24 moritz rurban: I think one in $PATH is enough, yes
14:27 allbery_b joined #perl6
14:35 eoh| joined #perl6
14:36 moritz r: if 42, 44, 22 -> *@a { say @a.perl }
14:36 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«Array.new()␤»
14:38 xenu joined #perl6
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14:51 rurban yes, rebased the perl6 dll's and fork tests pass now. conflict was with dynext/perl6_ops.dll and cygiconv-2.dll
14:51 rurban I'm not sure how to codify these steps, as normally you need a dash session without any service and bash running
14:52 moritz oh, "fun"
14:53 rurban if the rebase database is already initialized with cygparrot also, then it is only: ls dynext/*.dll nqp/dynext/*.dll > dll.lst; rebaseall -T dll.lst
14:54 rurban if cygparrot is not in, it will need more. I'll try to codify it for parrot and then for rakudo
14:57 kaare_ joined #perl6
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15:00 moritz rurban: ah, I've seen those on 32bit platforms. Known problem :(
15:00 not_gerd rurban: https://gist.github.com/1641348 is how I do my rebasing
15:00 rurban overflow failures at http://nopaste.snit.ch/paste/137433
15:00 not_gerd (also, hello #perl6)
15:01 rurban gerd: find" -iname '*.dll' will find duplicate dll's
15:01 rurban better only the ones in dynext
15:01 rurban not the one in src
15:02 rurban ah I see. you rebase everything under c:/cygwin. hmm
15:03 not_gerd rurban: you need to invoke the script from your build directory
15:03 not_gerd it looks for additional DLLs there and does a rebaseall
15:04 rurban I would omit the duplicates. ls dynext/*.dll nqp/dynext/*.dll is better
15:04 rurban in cmd.exe syntax: dir /b dynext\*.dll nqp\dynext\*.dll
15:05 not_gerd rurban: the script is not specific to Parrot/NQP/Rakudo, but general purpose
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15:07 rurban t/spec/S16-filehandles/filetest.rakudo: not ok 28 - ~~:z returns false on directories
15:08 rurban filetest :z failure at http://nopaste.snit.ch/paste/137434
15:09 moritz rurban: that nopaste comes out empty here
15:09 JimmyZ joined #perl6
15:10 PerlJam Should nom ultimiately only have nqp::mumble ops?  (i.e., the pir::mumble will have been extirpated)
15:10 moritz PerlJam: probably
15:11 moritz PerlJam: but some of the code is very parrot specific, and replacing pir:: by nqp:: doesn't help much
15:11 PerlJam moritz: for instance?
15:12 moritz PerlJam: exception handling. Backtraces.
15:13 PerlJam The reason I ask is because I noticed that there are several pir::mumble ops being used that have corresponding nqp::mumble   (pir::split, pir::join, pir::chr, etc)
15:13 moritz those could and should be replaced by their nqp:: counterparts
15:13 PerlJam and your recently added nqp::die too
15:20 dalek Perlito: 8d71fff | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
15:20 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - TODO update
15:20 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/8d71fffe6e
15:20 PerlJam Could someone remind what the letters after __ mean in pir::substr__SSI and  pir::substr__SSi ?  (or where to find out that info?)
15:20 moritz type signatures
15:20 moritz the first letter is for the returned value
15:21 moritz and upper case means it needs to be a register
15:21 PerlJam ok
15:21 moritz lower case means it can also be a constant/literal
15:22 benabik Type signatures and they're not well documented to my regular irritation.  I should just comment them.
15:22 moritz they are documentated somehwere in PCT
15:22 benabik Oh.
15:22 moritz src/PAST/Compiler.pir
15:23 PerlJam so, the map for nqp::substr says maphash['substr']   = 'substr__Ssii'   How does substr__SSI map to that?  Is another nqp::substr variant needed?
15:23 benabik Yes, I even copied that comment around.
15:23 * benabik shuts up now.
15:23 masak aloha_noise++ ?
15:23 aloha masak: Karma for _noise is now 1
15:23 moritz nqp: say(nqp::substr("abc", 1))
15:23 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«bc␤»
15:23 masak do we have commit rights to aloha?
15:23 MaskRay joined #perl6
15:24 moritz PerlJam: seems you don't need a separate signature if you want fewer arguments
15:24 benabik aloha: aloha?
15:24 moritz PerlJam: and the lower-case variants are more general than the upper-case variants
15:24 benabik Hm.  aloha seems to have lost it's facts database?
15:24 rurban I submitted a couple of cygwin reports to rakudobug
15:25 moritz PerlJam: there are just some parrot ops that don't like having constant arguments
15:25 moritz rurban++
15:25 aloha Karma for rurban is now 9
15:25 masak benabik: I think aloha only does facts-database on #parrot
15:25 benabik Ah.
15:25 masak aloha: that is fiendishly annoying.
15:25 benabik masak++
15:25 aloha Karma for masak is now 715
15:25 PerlJam so that version of nqp::substr should work for both the __SSi and __SSI cases?
15:25 moritz yes
15:26 benabik masak: aloha is on github, so you could at the least submit a pull request to basek
15:26 masak ok.
15:26 moritz I dimly recall that we've had the exact same issue before
15:28 masak wohoo, trivial guess was correct: https://github.com/bacek/aloha
15:28 tokuhirom joined #perl6
15:28 moritz POLS++
15:28 aloha Karma for pols is now 1
15:28 masak huh! last commit was a year ago.
15:28 masak so, what changed lately?
15:28 benabik masak: Yeah, aloha has that knowledge in it's db which is why I was trying to query it.
15:28 moritz masak: probably some module it uses
15:28 benabik Probably an update to the plugin.
15:30 ponbiki joined #perl6
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15:31 masak oh btw. I keep losing connection with feather today. but it might be on my end, because I didn't have any problems a few hours ago on a different computer.
15:32 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
15:34 not_gerd left #perl6
15:34 allbery_b joined #perl6
15:34 masak just giving a heads-up, in case anyone else... g'ah it happened again! :)
15:36 * TimToady is heading out to pick up quietfanatic from college; will be online occasionally to backlog
15:37 masak masak.o/ ==> TimToady ==> quietfanatic
15:38 TimToady Bool::True
15:39 moritz not OK[<mumble>]? :-)
15:42 masak not yet ;)
15:43 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
15:48 * TimToady was tempted though, before settling on Bool::True
15:50 frettled As long as we don't get Bool::Mu
15:55 TimToady afk &
15:56 noam joined #perl6
15:59 * jnthn home o/
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast: 0ce175f | masak++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast: [QAST::Operations] added lots of opcodes
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast:
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast: Stopped at a couple that look like special cases.
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast:
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast: Not all of these are tested, and some are probably wrong,
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast: but most of them should work.
16:01 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0ce175f22c
16:02 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
16:02 jnthn Whoa!
16:02 jnthn masak++
16:02 aloha Karma for masak is now 716
16:02 masak aloha: shut. up.
16:02 jnthn aloha: I didn't ask you to tell me that.
16:03 masak also, I could easily do those as an AoA and a for loop.
16:03 masak that's an easy refactor.
16:03 masak in fact, I'll do that right away.
16:03 jnthn masak: er.
16:03 jnthn It's just fine like that IMHO :)
16:03 masak ok then.
16:03 jnthn +QAST::Operations.add_core_pirop_mapping('atkey', 'set', 'PQs');
16:03 rurban one more question: we do not install nqp? only parrot-nqp is there?
16:03 jnthn er, you didn't implemnt Q support yet, right?
16:03 masak jnthn: no.
16:04 masak jnthn: probably merits a test.
16:05 jnthn aye
16:05 jnthn masak: Which special casey ones bovvad you?
16:05 frettled Whose responsibility is this aloha annoyance?
16:06 frettled (its help info is not helpful in that regard)
16:06 masak jnthn: $P0 = new ['Hash']; $P0['pasttype'] = 'list'; maphash['list'] = $P0 -- and a similar one for 'hash'
16:06 jnthn rurban: An NQP executable is installed by NQP's "make install", I believe.
16:06 jnthn masak: Oh, yeah
16:06 jnthn masak: Ignore those :)
16:07 geekosaur joined #perl6
16:07 jnthn masak: We get those ones for "free" thanks to a nice unification thanks to pmichaud++ :)
16:07 rurban top-level make install did not install nqp
16:07 jnthn "top-level"?
16:07 masak jnthn: ok, great.
16:07 rurban in the rakudo builddir
16:08 masak more opcodes coming up.
16:08 rurban should I call make -C nqp install?
16:08 jnthn rurban: No no, I meant NQP's "make install".
16:08 fglock joined #perl6
16:09 rurban yes, that's what make -C nqp install does
16:09 rurban t/nqp/60-bigint.t: Failed tests:  28-29, 34
16:11 dalek nqp/toqast: d36485e | masak++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
16:11 dalek nqp/toqast: [QAST::Operations] some more opcodes
16:11 dalek nqp/toqast:
16:11 dalek nqp/toqast: Do let me know if any of these aren't meant to be kept around
16:11 dalek nqp/toqast: any more. I'll remove them right away. :)
16:11 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d36485eafc
16:15 geekosaur joined #perl6
16:15 rurban Is there no nqp manpage?
16:17 rurban well, there's at least a nqp --help
16:17 jnthn If it's not evident in the repo then probably not.
16:18 * jnthn doesn't remember seeing one
16:18 masak nqp isn't so outward-facing. with time, it probably will be. but right now it's still a bit bare-bones and targeted towards bootstrapping Perl 6.
16:19 jnthn Aye.
16:19 Chillance joined #perl6
16:19 PerlJam masak: with time nqp will be replaced with Perl 6   ;)
16:20 mspaulding joined #perl6
16:21 jnthn PerlJam: Uh. Eliminating NQP isn't anywhere in my vision for Rakudo for the foreseeable future. :)
16:21 sisar phenny, tell tadzik, due to moritz++ recent bugfix, we now get the line no. in warnings in panda. For example, lines 4 & 7 in https://gist.github.com/2586890.
16:21 phenny sisar: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
16:21 rurban Should I install it at all then? We have a parrot-nqp and a nqp which is a bit awkward to announce
16:22 PerlJam jnthn: sure ... no one specified the horizon for "with time"  though  :)
16:22 frettled PerlJam: I think someone mentioned a certain heathen holiday turned mainstream commercially and nominally Christian, once upon a time
16:23 jnthn rurban: Well, parrot-nqp is the old one...nqp is the one that is actively developed etc.
16:23 frettled I have a feeling that my slow-time refactoring of the cookbook will be finished before NQP is out of date ;)
16:23 rurban I will just install both, and refer to nqp which should be used
16:24 frettled å
16:24 rurban rakudo is done, now only star is left
16:24 jnthn yay :)
16:24 PerlJam rurban++
16:24 aloha Karma for rurban is now 10
16:24 jnthn aloha--
16:24 aloha jnthn: Karma for aloha is now -69 (pffft)
16:26 frettled My google-fu is weak these days, all of my attempts at googling for some sort of docs on what goes in NQP are in vain.  :-/
16:28 tokuhirom joined #perl6
16:28 PerlJam frettled: what do you mean "what goes in NQP"?
16:29 felher moritz: ping
16:29 dakkar joined #perl6
16:30 thelazydeveloper joined #perl6
16:30 frettled PerlJam: Well, sort of a tutorial or spec, to get started with it :)
16:31 frettled oops, gotta run :(
16:34 sisar phenny, tell lichtkind, why does the the navigation in Appendix A, second row,  have "Cn", "Pn", "Rn", "Sn" aling with the other alphabets. Do they have any special meaning or are they there by mistake?
16:34 phenny sisar: I'll pass that on when lichtkind is around.
16:37 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:41 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
16:47 * [Coke] wonders if mentioning job postings for non-perl positions here is suggested against.
16:48 PerlJam [Coke]: I doubt the reaction would be as violent as on other #perls
16:49 [Coke] (web dev, Albany NY. ping me privately)
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 4823171 | duff++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: nqp-ize pir::chr
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/482317114f
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 420739a | duff++ | src/ (25 files):
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: nqp-ize pir::die
16:53 dalek joined #perl6
16:55 rurban blizkost left star?
16:59 jaffa4 How would you cut down the length of an array?
16:59 PerlJam jnthn: splice?
16:59 PerlJam er, jaffa4
17:00 aindilis joined #perl6
17:00 jaffa4 n: my @a; @b.elems = 2;
17:00 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Variable @b is not predeclared at /tmp/FiDXgBS4d1 line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy @a; [33mâ��[31m@b.elems = 2;[0mâ�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  @a is declared but not used at /tmp/FiDXgBS4d1 line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m@a; @b.el…
17:00 jaffa4 n: my @a; @a.elems = 2;
17:00 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: assigning to readonly value␤  at /tmp/RaDW6sTC78 line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3841 (module-CORE @ 65) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib…
17:01 rurban https://github.com/perlpilot/rakudo-dist/blob/master/README still includes subversion as req. Should be changed to git
17:02 PerlJam rurban: er ... you aren't using that for anything are you?
17:03 rurban I'm preparing the cygwin release
17:04 PerlJam rurban: that's not the offical rakudo-star repo.
17:04 PerlJam rurban: rakudo-dist was more of an experiment to generate rakudo star using Dist::Zilla
17:05 PerlJam It hasn't been kept up-to-date though
17:05 [Coke] github.com/rakudo/star
17:05 PerlJam rurban: but!  If you find rakudo-dist useful, feel free to update it  :-)
17:06 eoh joined #perl6
17:07 rurban oh thanks. I just found that on the net. the dist is based on rakudo-star. just stumbled upon the nqp-2012.04.1 update.
17:08 masak jaffa4: I guess .elems could be made rw, but I'm not sure I like the idea of that.
17:08 masak feels like a slippery-slope thing.
17:09 jaffa4 How would you do that otherwise?
17:09 geekosaur joined #perl6
17:09 PerlJam masak: the only (useful) reason $#array is writable in Perl 5 is to pre-extend the array so as to have between control over memory useage.  Perl 6 doesn't need that at all.
17:09 rurban I was just wondering were blizkost is now
17:10 PacoAir joined #perl6
17:10 jaffa4 PerlJam: why not?
17:10 masak r: set-length(@a is rw, $l) { pop @a for ^(@a.elems - $l); push @a, Any for ^($l - @a.elems) }; set-length(my @x, 5); say @x.perl
17:10 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @a is not declared␤at /tmp/aYYHXbK8y5:1␤»
17:10 PerlJam s/between/better/  (now *that* was weird.  I know I thought "better", I have no clue why my fingers typed "between")
17:10 masak r: sub set-length(@a is rw, $l) { pop @a for ^(@a.elems - $l); push @a, Any for ^($l - @a.elems) }; set-length(my @x, 5); say @x.perl
17:10 p6eval rakudo 197272: OUTPUT«Array.new(Any, Any, Any, Any, Any)␤»
17:10 masak jaffa4: like that, for example.
17:11 allbery_b joined #perl6
17:11 PerlJam jaffa4: Perl6 has other means for getting arrays of various sizes.
17:11 masak jaffa4: but like PerlJam said, it's not a very interesting thing to do.
17:11 masak jaffa4: you might as well dimension it from the start. 'my @a[5]'
17:11 PerlJam exactly
17:12 fgomez joined #perl6
17:13 moritz felher: pong
17:15 masak PerlJam: though I've seen at least one other use case for '$#a =' in Perl 5: truncating arrays.
17:16 PerlJam I suppose so.
17:17 felher moritz: i thought about typed exceptions for IO and i noticed that we have exceptions as we have function Copy,Mkdir but nothing like a FileNotFoundException. Do we prefer one function <-> one exception? What do you think about mixing? Something like: https://gist.github.com/2587005 ?
17:18 felher moritz: the latter isn't a patch-request. It's just some thinking.
17:21 felher also, the example is kinda stupid, because copy ("valid-file", "non-existent-directory/file") also stringifies like "no such file or directory" :)
17:22 moritz felher: I think we should rather have a big enum with IO errors
17:23 moritz felher: and then an X::IO::Copy exception could have an $.os-error which could be X::IOTypes::FIileNotFound
17:23 masak an enum would make it non-extensible.
17:24 moritz right
17:25 moritz even if we don't do with enums, I think it should that the actual IO error should be inside the error from the operation
17:25 moritz because "copying failed" is more high level than "file not found"
17:26 felher agreed :)
17:27 PerlJam will there be some convention for differentiating user-defined errors from built-in errors?
17:27 jaffa4 How do I call a method in a method?
17:28 PerlJam jaffa4: the same way you call a method anywhere else?
17:29 jaffa4 I tried to make a call as calling a sub... method not found...
17:29 * felher has to go now and is therefore afk
17:31 PerlJam jaffa4: but methods aren't subs and you don't call them the same way.
17:32 jaffa4 PerlJam:  that is why I am asking
17:32 moritz PerlJam: (re built-in errors) no
17:32 moritz PerlJam: just like setting subs aren't different from "normal" subs
17:33 moritz r: sub &CORE::<uc> === &uc
17:33 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/GjPC1ju6t1:1␤»
17:33 moritz r: say &CORE::<uc> === &uc
17:33 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:33 moritz r: say &CORE::<uc>
17:33 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
17:33 moritz that explains it
17:33 moritz r: say CORE::<&uc>
17:33 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«sub uc(Cool $s) { ... }␤»
17:33 moritz r: say CORE::<&uc> == &uc
17:33 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \$v, Mu *%_)␤␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:648␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2377␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/XD07YAw003:1␤␤»
17:33 moritz r: say CORE::<&uc> === &uc
17:33 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:34 moritz PerlJam: I guess you can employ the same mechanism with user-defined vs. core types, but it is a hack, and will remain it
17:34 moritz PerlJam: ... unless there's a good use case
17:34 masak jaffa4: do you expect a method .foo to be callable with the foo() syntax, like in Java? that won't work.
17:34 PerlJam I don't have one; just curious and musing
17:34 moritz jaffa4: you call methods as self.method or $.method or @.method or %.method, depending on context
17:34 jaffa4 I can see it self.methodnamd();
17:35 masak r: class A { method foo { self.bar(); bar }; method bar { say "method" }; sub bar { say "sub } }; A.new.foo
17:35 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2␤»
17:35 masak r: class A { method foo { self.bar(); bar }; method bar { say "method" }; sub bar { say "sub" } }; A.new.foo
17:35 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«method␤sub␤»
17:35 geekosaur joined #perl6
17:35 moritz it works in java because there are no subs in java :-)
17:36 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
17:36 jaffa4 moritz: you mean your can force the return context in that way
17:36 moritz jaffa4: correct
17:36 rurban http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ needs to add Cygwin to the list of packages. Hell I was the one who created installable parrots at first.
17:37 jaffa4 good idea
17:37 moritz rurban: do you have a link to the cygwin package ready?
17:37 rurban There is no link, just a GUI. In setup select parrot/rakudo/rakudo-star
17:37 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
17:38 moritz rurban: ok
17:38 rurban sources at http://code.google.com/p/cygwin-rurban/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Frelease%2Fparrot
17:39 PerlJam rurban++   (this karma is worth putting up with aloha :)
17:39 aloha Karma for rurban is now 11
17:39 moritz rurban++ indeed
17:39 aloha Karma for rurban is now 12
17:41 rurban http://cygwin.com/packages/rakudo/ is a link you can use
17:41 moritz rurban: http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ updated
17:41 rurban Thanks
17:41 dalek tablets: c7b1283 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
17:41 dalek tablets: fix square brackets link
17:41 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/c7b12834bd
17:41 lichtkind sisar?
17:41 phenny lichtkind: 16:34Z <sisar> tell lichtkind why does the the navigation in Appendix A, second row,  have "Cn", "Pn", "Rn", "Sn" aling with the other alphabets. Do they have any special meaning or are they there by mistake?
17:42 moritz ... and now with link
17:43 masak I hate it when my two-letter combinations go aling without me.
17:44 lichtkind phenny: tell sisar "just have a look section C is much larger than average so the C heading as a backling to the to looses its functionality if you have to scroll too much, so I added some C (second letter a-m)"
17:44 phenny lichtkind: I'll pass that on when sisar is around.
17:44 lichtkind phenny: tell sisar "and Cn for second letter N-z"
17:44 phenny lichtkind: I'll pass that on when sisar is around.
17:45 lichtkind masak: was that for me?
17:45 masak no, I was just being facetious without a recipient. for once.
17:50 dalek tablets: aa9c11f | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
17:50 dalek tablets: explain navigation menu; sisar++
17:50 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/aa9c11f220
17:53 * colomon is fighting to remember Perl 5 syntax for the $work script he must write
17:56 moritz Juerd: you recommended that I copy the DBIx::Simple API, and I'm inclinde to do it at least partially...
17:56 jaffa4 colomon: that is bad
17:57 moritz Juerd: the only thing I don't like is that you can't seem to prepare a statement once and then execute is several times with multiple arguments; Is that really missing from the API, or am I just too dense to see it?
17:57 PerlJam jaffa4: when you're doing Perl 5 and Perl 6 there's not exactly a clear distinction between the two syntaxes  :)
17:58 masak sure there is ;)
17:58 jaffa4 PerlJam: I have not confused them yet
17:58 moritz jaffa4: you will :-)
17:59 PerlJam I'm always writing Perl 6 code in the middle of my Perl 5 and then having to stop and re-think.
17:59 PerlJam (I have never written perl 5 code in the middle of perl 6 yet though :)
18:00 jaffa4 I think it is a matter of being present sufficiently
18:00 masak good for you.
18:01 jaffa4 though I remember I confused C++ substr with perl substr
18:01 rurban So it looks like nqp should better be its own package right?
18:02 masak I sometimes have to spend an extra cycle thinking about whether I want .substr or .subst
18:02 moritz it's often small subtleties like adding writing map { 1 + $_}, @list  in p5 :-)
18:02 moritz rurban: yes
18:03 rurban Am I the first or what do the others say? fedora, debian, ...
18:05 moritz rurban: debian is working on packaging nqp separately
18:09 colomon jaffa4: figured it out.  biggest problem was an accidentally dropped {  -- not a p6 vs p5 issue at all!
18:09 geekosaur joined #perl6
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18:12 jaffa4 colomon: all is well that ends well.
18:13 jaffa4 I find confusing  $.foo(1,2,3);;; so what is the syntax if I want to call with $_ argument in this case and I do not want to use $_?
18:13 NamelessTee joined #perl6
18:13 moritz .foo(1, 2, 3)
18:14 jaffa4 but then it is not a method call
18:14 ggoebel left #perl6
18:14 moritz it is a method call on $_
18:16 geekosaur joined #perl6
18:16 jaffa4 foo(1,2,3) did not work as method call but .foo(1,2,3) does?
18:17 PerlJam jaffa4: right.
18:17 moritz r: $_ = 'foo'; say .uc
18:18 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
18:18 ggoebel joined #perl6
18:20 moritz it's very logical: if you leave off the $obj in $obj.method, you get a call on the default object, which is in $_
18:20 moritz ss/default object/topic/
18:21 jaffa4 .say print $_
18:21 jaffa4 What is the object in there?
18:22 moritz std: .say print $_
18:22 p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a row (method call requires colon or parens to take arguments) at /tmp/bK_uqImjO_ line 1:â�¤------> [32m.say [33mâ��[31mprint $_[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤      infix or meta-infixâ�¤    infixed functionâ�¤       statement modifier
18:22 p6eval ..loop␤Parse…
18:22 moritz jaffa4: it's not valid syntax
18:22 jaffa4 .say is like say $_
18:22 jaffa4 r: $_="3"; .say;
18:22 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«3␤»
18:23 moritz well no. .say is a method call,  say $_  is a sub call
18:23 moritz They happen to do the same thing in this case, but the distinction is important
18:23 moritz r: $_ = 3; .&say
18:23 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«3␤»
18:24 moritz now that's more like a sub call :-)
18:25 jaffa4 r: sub p { print @_[0];} $_=3; .p;
18:25 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/7D23VpVyL8:1␤»
18:26 jaffa4 r: sub p { print @_[0];} $_=3; .&p;
18:26 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/L57Pk85mxs:1␤»
18:26 moritz r: sub p { print @_[0]}; $_=3; .&p;
18:26 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«3»
18:27 jaffa4 r: sub p { print @_[0];}; $_=3; .p;
18:27 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«Method 'p' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/IyWeVXgtua:1␤␤»
18:28 masak right. subs != methods
18:28 masak you can use one as the other, if you really want to.
18:29 masak but they are different. they occupy different namespaces. only methods have a notion of an invocant.
18:29 moritz r: class A { our method p($x) { say $x } }; A::p(A.new, 'foo')
18:29 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«foo␤»
18:29 [Coke] rurban++ # disting.
18:29 aloha Karma for rurban is now 13
18:29 jaffa4 as in perl 5
18:30 [Coke] did anyone ping bacek about aloha?
18:31 [Coke] I think he's on Москва time, and can't be online during work.
18:32 jaffa4 You wrote in cyril
18:32 moritz [Coke]: I didn't ping him
18:32 huf good heavens, communist characters? not in my these-colors-dont-run irc :D
18:33 geekosaur joined #perl6
18:34 rurban rakudo star tests do not work unless you install it first.
18:34 rurban This should be documented
18:36 masak agreed.
18:38 rurban Or pass all module/*/lib paths to PERL6LIB
18:38 rurban But this gets big
18:40 masak generally, one should be able to do 'make test' before 'make install'. that feels like one of those "ambient assumptions", somehow.
18:41 * jnthn suspects it may not be the way it currently is on purpose
18:41 jnthn May be fallout of the removing of lib from the default path, for example.
18:41 masak oh! yes.
18:48 mikemol_ joined #perl6
18:53 moritz at least we can now say prove -Ilib -e perl6
18:54 masak \o/
18:55 preflex_ joined #perl6
18:57 xenu joined #perl6
18:59 rurban can I say that blizkost is gone?
18:59 moritz yes
18:59 jnthn rurban: Yeah. It doesn't work with current Rakudo.
18:59 rurban done
19:00 jnthn It should be done in terms of representation poly, in these post-6model times.
19:00 rurban announcements are out
19:01 moritz \o/
19:04 erkan joined #perl6
19:09 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
19:09 masak url?
19:10 moritz there's one on parrot-dev
19:11 masak oh, ok.
19:11 jnthn And perl6-compiler
19:12 ponbiki joined #perl6
19:13 * moritz is kinda annoyed by people who use rakudobugs to get help, not to report bugs
19:14 masak moritz: maybe it's a cry for help :)
19:22 tyatpi joined #perl6
19:28 masak "The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas." -- Laozi
19:28 masak I think Laozi was a postmodernist. :)
19:30 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
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19:42 rurban And one on cygwin-announce http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2012-05/msg00004.html
19:46 brrt joined #perl6
19:53 dalek DBIish: 85a4f68 | moritz++ | lib/DBDish/Pg.pm6:
19:53 dalek DBIish: [Pg] a bit more introspection internally
19:53 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/85a4f68d97
19:56 tadzik 'evening
19:56 phenny tadzik: 16:21Z <sisar> tell tadzik due to moritz++ recent bugfix, we now get the line no. in warnings in panda. For example, lines 4 & 7 in https://gist.github.com/2586890.
19:56 masak tadziku!
19:57 masak \o/
19:57 tadzik masaku! \o/
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: 4422265 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: Can't have sigless ops any more. Also concat should always work on strings.
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4422265aad
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: 9eb078c | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: Handling of lexical paramters, including natively typed ones. Also, lookup of lexicals declared in the current block; this is optimized right off to a register access.
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9eb078c0d4
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: 6999d2b | jnthn++ | src/QAST/ (2 files):
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: Slurpy can only go on a QAST::Var.
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6999d2b636
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: 63d58d9 | jnthn++ | t/qast/qast.t:
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: A couple of initial tests for lexical parameters.
20:01 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/63d58d9999
20:01 PerlJam moritz: Am I missing something to compile DBIish?  When I run make I get: http://gist.github.com/2588842
20:02 moritz PerlJam: you need the 'cstr' branches of both nqp and zavolaj
20:02 fglock joined #perl6
20:02 PerlJam gotcha. thanks
20:02 moritz PerlJam: I hope arnsholt++ will merge them soon :-)
20:02 tadzik sisar: ping
20:02 moritz it seems I need to at least tokenize SQL in order to support the ? placeholder syntax for postgresql
20:03 moritz because postgres uses $1, $2 etc. instead of ?
20:05 jnthn Does it not provide soemthing in its API where it does the substs?
20:05 moritz I didn't find anything
20:05 jnthn Or is it up to the driver writer to keep bobby tables at bay?
20:05 tadzik phenny: tell sisar which Rakudo is that? I don't get any warnings in Panda, with or without line numbers
20:05 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when sisar is around.
20:06 moritz jnthn: it supports placeholders, just not in the syntax that perl people expect
20:06 moritz jnthn: so the driver needs to convert it, but only in not-quoted constructs, obviously :-)
20:06 PeterSomu joined #perl6
20:06 kaare__ joined #perl6
20:07 jnthn moritz: oh my... :)
20:07 icwiener joined #perl6
20:08 PerlJam What does DBD::Pg do (perl 5)?
20:08 moritz PerlJam: I'm afraid to look :-)
20:09 fglock PerlJam: it is the PostgreSQL database driver for the DBI module
20:10 jnthn I...don't think that's the meaning of "What" and "do" PerlJam had in mind... ;)
20:12 dalek tablets: 40a38ac | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
20:12 dalek tablets: polish square bracketing items
20:12 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/40a38ace25
20:13 fglock I've used B::C to convert perlito5.pl into a 18MB C source file; compiling now...
20:16 masak "Polish square" sounds like a math puzzle.
20:16 jnthn Or a place to meet up in central Europe to drink...
20:16 dorlamm joined #perl6
20:17 dalek tablets: 5568f53 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
20:17 dalek tablets: making secondary letter chapter headlines shorter
20:17 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/5568f535c0
20:18 * fglock reads the logs to get a clue on the context
20:32 [Coke] wierd. you can't create a .gitignore file using windows explorer.
20:33 spider-mario yeah, it’ll refuse
20:33 spider-mario but cmd.exe will let you rename a file to .gitignore
20:36 masak spider-mario! \o/
20:36 * jnthn always just creates them at the command line :)
20:36 spider-mario o/ masak
20:36 jnthn e .gitignore
20:36 jnthn :)
20:36 jnthn (with "e" being aliased to my editor)
20:37 spider-mario is e edit.com?
20:37 spider-mario oh
20:37 spider-mario :D
20:37 jnthn No!
20:37 jnthn :)
20:37 masak not that there's anything wrong with edit.com :P
20:37 jnthn Aside from it appears it's nowhere in my path... :P
20:37 geekosaur joined #perl6
20:38 spider-mario it’s absent from 64-bit windows since it’s a 16-bit program
20:38 spider-mario not that we’ll miss it, I guess. :)
20:39 jnthn Yes, I don't think I've used it for...probably over a decade. :)
20:40 benabik Edit.com?  Man, memories.
20:41 gfldex p6: my class A { has $.b }; my $a = A.new(:b(10), :b(10)); say $a;
20:41 [Coke] jnthn: you can also create ".gitignore." in the explorer.
20:41 p6eval rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«A.new(b => 10)␤»
20:41 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«<obj:A>␤»
20:41 p6eval ..niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«A.new(...)␤»
20:41 spider-mario too bad DOSBox doesn’t come with it.
20:41 eviltwin_b joined #perl6
20:41 gfldex wouldn't that be a candidate for a warning?
20:41 gfldex having the same named parameter twice is most likely a typo
20:44 * [Coke] is NOT going to YAPC::NA
20:44 jnthn .oO( I was thinking about it, but those guys have totally sold out... )
20:44 * colomon is not going to YAPC::NA either
20:45 [Coke] jnthn: *thwap*
20:45 jnthn :D
20:45 [Coke] jnthn: also: heee!
20:45 colomon jnthn: groan
20:49 * colomon finally figured out why the money is so tight this year -- lost the business of a company that represented more than a third of my first quarter income the last two years.  :(
20:49 ashleydev joined #perl6
20:50 rurban I'm going but my talk was too technical
20:50 rurban not accepted
20:50 colomon rurban++
20:50 aloha Karma for rurban is now 14
20:51 rurban about address-sanitzer :)
20:52 jnthn colomon: ouch :(
20:52 masak rurban: what was your talk about?
20:53 rurban Forget valgrind, use http://code.google.com/p/address-sanitizer/wiki/AddressSanitizer
20:54 rurban found many security relevant perl5 core bugs
20:54 masak oh, you wrote it above. sorry, missed that :)
20:54 rurban And DBI is still broken.
20:55 rurban And perl-5.16.0 has also one left. Nobody cares
20:55 masak sounds implausible.
20:56 rurban Good idea: I'll check parrot and perl6 now.
20:56 masak 'night, #perl6
20:57 rurban auto::va_ptr fails with buffer-overflow
21:17 fgomez joined #perl6
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22:54 skids joined #perl6
22:57 jnthn Goodnight, #perl6
23:00 benabik joined #perl6
23:06 spider-mario good night, jnthn
23:18 lichtkind good night
23:33 gfldex p6: enum MonthLength <0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 31 30 31>; say MonthLength($_).Int for 0..12;
23:33 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&enum"␤    at /tmp/Ee_9Z0A6a0 line 1, column 1-57␤»
23:33 p6eval ..niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Illegal redeclaration of symbol '31' (see line 1) at /tmp/2ClCin4ir6 line 1:�------> [32m <0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 31 30 31>[33m�[31m; say MonthLength($_).Int for 0..12;[0m��Illegal redeclaration of symbol '30' (see …
23:33 p6eval ..rakudo 83587b: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤»
23:34 gfldex std: enum MonthLength <0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 31 30 31>; say MonthLength($_).Int for 0..12;
23:34 p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
23:43 risou joined #perl6
23:46 risou_awy joined #perl6
23:46 dalek tablets: eee3635 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
23:46 dalek tablets: explaining delegation and attribute, polish declarator and regularising distance between punctuation headlines
23:46 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/eee3635c23
23:47 [Coke] bacek++
23:47 aloha Karma for bacek is now 1735
23:50 _sri wouldn't an mruby-ish implementation of perl6 make sense? https://github.com/mruby/mruby
23:52 _sri a reasonably fast subset with just enough features to get started writing real applications and port modules
23:53 flussence nqp sort of does that already, but it's not fast and a bit too much of a subset imo
23:53 flussence (though the speed thing may be the fault of what it's running on, I dunno)
23:53 risou joined #perl6
23:54 flussence I agree though, a perl6 with most of the standard library stripped away might be useful. Not everyone needs Str.indent after all
23:56 aloha joined #perl6
23:57 _sri yea, reduce it to the absolute minimal feature set

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