Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-05-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:31 sorear good * #perl6
00:31 * sorear ponders replying to Wenzel
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00:56 colomon sorear, o/
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01:10 adu what does <x>: mean?
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01:11 TimToady don't backtrack into it
01:11 phenny TimToady: 08 May 22:48Z <diakopter> tell TimToady try  3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.floor  on p6eval
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01:12 TimToady perl6: say 3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.floor
01:12 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«3875928375982729␤»
01:12 p6eval ..pugs, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«3875928375982735␤»
01:12 adu TimToady: you've been soo helpful today :)
01:13 TimToady well, everyone here is that way because someone was helpful to them at some point
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02:03 adu why is this not working?
02:03 adu "24" ~~ m{ \d ** 1..3 { +$0 < 256 or fail } }
02:04 TimToady put () around the capture
02:04 TimToady otherwise it doesn't get into $0
02:05 adu YEY thanks :)
02:05 adu that looks so much nicer on the eyes than [ \d | <[1..9]> \d | '1' \d \d | '2' <[0..4]> \d | '25' <[0..5]> ]
02:06 colomon or it could be +$/, instead of $0    ?
02:06 colomon oh, no, never mind
02:06 TimToady and I'd write that <?{ $0 < 256 }> which tests a boolean expression more succinctly
02:06 adu ok
02:07 TimToady since it's not clear that 'or fail' is going to be the eventual backtrack trigger
02:07 colomon TimToady++
02:07 TimToady but <?{ ... }> will continue to work whatever
02:07 adu "257" ~~ m{ \d ** 1..3 <?{+$/ < 256}> }
02:07 adu YEY it fails :)
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02:08 adu I've learned so much in one day
02:08 TimToady don't worry, you'll forget most of it by tomorrow.  :)
02:10 sisar moritz++ # range bugfix
02:16 adu how do I use tokens and rules in matches/regexes?
02:18 TimToady wanting to usually means you should write a grammar instead, but there's some support for calling <Grammar::rule> I think
02:18 TimToady generally a grammar is invoked with .parse though
02:18 adu ok
02:19 TimToady we may revise our view of that as we get more experience
02:19 adu I'm having trouble loading the whole grammar
02:20 TimToady syntactically?
02:20 adu if I do use dreme::datum::Grammar then it says Cannot call 'trait_mod:<is>'; none of these signatures match...
02:21 adu I probably suck at writing grammars
02:22 TimToady well, it'd be nice if it told you the line number, but rakudo is a bit weak on that for run-time errors (and traits, though run at compile time, are basically run-time code)
02:22 adu the only "is" is at the top
02:22 adu grammar dreme::datum::Grammar is HLL::Grammar;
02:22 adu should I delete the HLL::Grammar when testing with perl6?
02:22 TimToady I don't know; is that from parrot somewhere?
02:23 adu yes, well I started with parrot's language template
02:24 TimToady it sounds like one of those bits of nqp that doesn't really translate to P6
02:24 TimToady but I've never done anything with HLL::Grammar
02:25 TimToady in theory, just declaring 'grammar' should give you whatever base classes are necessary for a normal grammar
02:25 adu hmm
02:26 adu ok, the "use" worked i think
02:26 adu now how do I access this "parse" method?
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02:36 adu ok http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/Rules.html says for the Grammar API, See Abstractions.pod
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02:38 adu where is Abstractions.pod?
02:42 TimToady beats me; I've never seen that file before, despite my name being on it...
02:42 TimToady anyway, dinner &
02:42 TimToady oh, another thing you might try is running it under niecza, which has a different set of not-yet-implementeds than rakudo
02:43 TimToady bbl &
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02:49 adu hmm
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03:05 adu I keep getting Could not locate compile-time value for symbol dreme::datum::Grammar
03:06 adu how do I load a grammar?
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03:13 adu what's the difference between require and import?
03:13 adu and need?
03:13 adu and use?
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03:39 * adu is so confused
03:40 diakopter hm
03:40 PerlJam adu: what about?
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03:40 adu import, require, use, need
03:41 diakopter did you see S11?
03:41 adu I'm reading S11 right now
03:41 adu but I'm not sure if it applies
03:41 adu because they seem to be for packages and modules
03:41 adu and I'm trying to import a grammar
03:42 diakopter about a 1/3 of the way through it it explains what need/import/use do
03:42 diakopter and require
03:42 diakopter just to be certain, you're reading http://perlcabal.org/syn/S11.html ?
03:42 adu yes
03:43 adu so I do this: use dreme::datum::Grammar;
03:43 adu and perl6 says "Nil"
03:43 adu then: dreme::datum::Grammar::TOP
03:43 adu and perl6 says Could not find symbol 'dreme::datum::Grammar::&TOP'
03:44 PerlJam adu: what's the name of the file that contains dreme::datum::Grammar?
03:44 adu dreme/datum/Grammar.pm
03:44 diakopter omg I just typed that exact question
03:44 adu in the current dir
03:44 adu I can pastebin it
03:45 PerlJam adu: please do
03:46 PerlJam adu: your grammar declaration needs to be  grammar dreme::datum::Grammar { ... }  too:q
03:46 adu http://pastebin.com/dukkRaqd
03:47 diakopter did you try the { } form
03:47 adu hmm nope
03:47 diakopter might be a bug that makes that necessary
03:47 adu it would be nice if S11 mentioned grammars too
03:47 diakopter agree
03:49 adu I'm still getting "Could not find symbol 'dreme::datum::Grammar::&TOP'"
03:49 diakopter can you pastebin the file that's using the grammar?
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03:49 adu I'm not importing it from a file
03:50 adu I'm using rakudo's repl
03:50 diakopter ah
03:50 diakopter that has problems, I seem to recall
03:51 adu ok I put it in a file
03:52 adu http://pastebin.com/q55xnv6e
03:52 diakopter I don't know that TOP will be accessible like that
03:54 adu hmm ok
03:54 adu how do I parse the grammar then?
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03:54 diakopter r: https://gist.github.com/2641674
03:54 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol 'dreme::datum::Grammar::&TOP'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/ekUGDqcmae:88␤␤»
03:55 PerlJam adu: dreme::datum::Grammar.parse($string);  # assuming you meant use the grammar to parse something
03:55 diakopter r: https://gist.github.com/2641674
03:55 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«Method 'ww' not found for invocant of class 'dreme::datum::Grammar'␤  in regex ws at /tmp/aDpwCyHU4r:11␤  in regex datum at /tmp/aDpwCyHU4r:31␤  in regex TOP at /tmp/aDpwCyHU4r:3␤  in method parse at src/gen/CORE.setting:8932␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/aDpwCyHU4r:88…
03:55 diakopter hmm
03:56 adu PerlJam: that gives me: "Could not find symbol 'dreme::datum::&Grammar'"
03:57 adu there must be something I'm missing about packages or importing
03:57 diakopter it worked ("broke") in my gist
03:57 diakopter maybe loading Grammars from another file doesn't work
03:57 diakopter it might not be implemented
03:57 PerlJam diakopter: it does work.
03:57 diakopter or spec'd, for that matter
03:57 diakopter oh
03:58 PerlJam ww might not be implemented though
03:58 diakopter adu: see my gist?
03:59 adu so you put it in the same file
03:59 PerlJam Hmm
03:59 adu that'll do for now
04:00 PerlJam adu: it works in separate files too, but it dies the same way as diakopter's gist
04:00 adu this is why I wanted to run it :)
04:00 adu so I could get feedback
04:01 PerlJam something weird is going on with <ww>
04:01 diakopter n: https://gist.github.com/2641674
04:01 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ww in class Grammar␤  at /tmp/CR6C7oeO3w line 16 (Grammar.ws @ 3) ␤  at /tmp/CR6C7oeO3w line 36 (Grammar.datum @ 4) ␤  at /tmp/CR6C7oeO3w line 11 (Grammar.TOP @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line…
04:01 adu I also have a lot of missing rules
04:03 adu diakopter: PerlJam: thanks!
04:05 diakopter yw
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04:14 adu bizarre,
04:14 adu the first argument is @*ARGS[0]
04:15 adu I thought it would be $*ARGS[0]
04:15 PerlJam adu: but @*ARGS is an array
04:16 adu must be thinking of perl5
04:16 adu oops
04:16 PerlJam yeah, in perl5 the sigil changes, not in Perl 6
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04:20 warp0x00 is it ready yet
04:20 PerlJam warp0x00: is what ready?
04:21 warp0x00 dinner
04:21 PerlJam and ready for what exactly?
04:21 warp0x00 me to eat
04:21 diakopter hm
04:22 adu lol
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04:28 warp0x00 perl6: say 3;
04:28 p6eval pugs, rakudo 415791, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«3␤»
04:28 warp0x00 perl5: say 3;
04:29 warp0x00 what is with the u+2424
04:30 warp0x00 i must be missing a font
04:30 PerlJam you don't like newlines?
04:30 warp0x00 is that what that is
04:30 PerlJam ah, yes.  that's a newline symbol
04:30 warp0x00 what font do i need for that
04:30 diakopter small N and L
04:30 diakopter depends on your platform
04:31 warp0x00 debian gnu/linux 6.0
04:34 warp0x00 so once various compilers pass all the tests
04:34 warp0x00 does that mean it its time to write more tests
04:35 adu I'm using gnu-unifont, and I can see NL just fine
04:35 warp0x00 idk what that is
04:35 warp0x00 and aptitude finds nothing
04:35 warp0x00 ah its just called unifont
04:36 adu http://unifoundry.com/unifont.html
04:36 warp0x00 downloading
04:36 warp0x00 i have a plush bonsai kitten
04:37 warp0x00 adu, welp i assume th next time i restart x or my client it will work
04:38 adu if you're on linux, you might have to log out
04:38 adu i dunno
04:38 warp0x00 more like bug out
04:39 warp0x00 just the program
04:39 warp0x00 i can see it now
04:40 warp0x00 p6eval: print 3;
04:41 warp0x00 perl6: print 3;
04:41 p6eval pugs, rakudo 415791, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«3»
04:41 warp0x00 perl6: print 3.$\;
04:41 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unsupported use of $\ variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's :ors attribute at /tmp/ptYB9JlSQ2 line 1:â�¤------> [32mprint 3.$\[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
04:41 p6eval ..rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of $\ variable;  in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's :ors attribute␤at /tmp/2kezzu296Z:1␤»
04:41 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "\\;"␤    expecting variable name␤    at /tmp/EfD6KxSIrZ line 1, column 10␤»
04:41 TimToady just use say
04:42 TimToady perl6: say 3
04:42 p6eval pugs, rakudo 415791, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«3␤»
04:42 warp0x00 you just use say
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04:42 adu hmm
04:43 adu how do I get ws to not match?
04:43 adu I'm getting the match "number => <1 #|comment|#>"
04:43 TimToady use token instead of rule maybe
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04:44 inchok78 hello all
04:45 adu hello
04:49 inchok78 can u recommend webpages with stories of Perl 6 used for production work?
04:49 inchok78 join #kubuntu
04:51 inchok78 (boy am I rusty)
04:52 * sisar is having fun and wasting time with https://ie.microsoft.com/test​drive/Graphics/TouchEffects/
04:54 sorear inchok78: 'stories' isn't really how stuff gets done.
04:54 sorear masak might havge something, but he won't be here for a few more hours
04:55 sorear also, 'production' is a pretty nebulous concept
04:56 sorear we once had a user in #mono come in asking if it was production ready... after much harassing, I got them to admit their goal: create a website able to serve equal or greater traffic load to Wikipedia
04:56 inchok78 ok... non-technical people trying to get a 30000 feet feeling for whether Perl 6 is able to be a player in a project BEFORE the programmers get involved...
04:57 inchok78 this is about connecting a heart recording device to a remote database
04:57 diakopter I think a good definition of used in production is: used in business or large-scale personal activities
04:57 inchok78 forgive my ignorance and if my tone is not right, forgive that too
04:57 diakopter :)
04:57 diakopter there's lots of forgiveness around here
04:57 sorear inchok78: I'm not mad at you
04:58 inchok78 yeah. i used to do scripting in 5.8 or something, when the universe was young. now i do project for big research and haven't touched a proper programming lang. in 5 yrs
04:58 xenu joined #perl6
04:59 sorear Perl 5 and Perl 6 are being developed concurrently
04:59 sorear Perl 5 is still a lot faster and is less likely to break on you
04:59 inchok78 oh
05:00 inchok78 (i used to keep tabs on pugs back in the day)
05:01 sorear for various regrettable reasons, Perl 6 did a lot of stalling back in the mid-2010s
05:01 diakopter inchok78: to get that 30000 feet feeling would be difficult at this point, I think.
05:02 inchok78 mmhhhh
05:03 sorear I'm the main developer of one of the currently active implementations and I have a lot of forest/trees problems, yeah
05:03 sorear performance (broadly construed) of implmentations currently... in a word, inconsistantg
05:04 sorear some things work compellingly better than Perl 5.  other things will cause major slowdows.  You don't get to know in advance
05:04 sorear is this a project which requires certainty or high speed?  if so, definitely stay away from 6
05:05 inchok78 got that. i will do my due diligence
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05:05 inchok78 just for curiosity, what is the implementation you're working on?
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05:06 diakopter niecza
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05:06 diakopter https://github.com/sorear/niecza
05:07 inchok78 thanks... will look it up on the windows machine... this here kubuntu has no web access
05:08 sorear fwiw, niecza works fine on mono
05:09 sorear oh, wait, if you haven't looked it up yet you must not be commenting on that
05:09 inchok78 my wife is a mono guru. i am not currently into programming but want to get back on soooo badly
05:10 sorear inchok78: I'm sorry I can't give a straight answer.  I won't say "use Perl 6" because there are a zillion things that are still very much broken with it.  I won't say "avoid it" because there are even more things that work fine.
05:11 inchok78 i guess that sums it up. looking niecza on the other computer, but pretty aware this is mostly to satisfy my curiosity at this point
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05:13 sorear another note... popular perception of Perl 6 among programmers is still mostly at the "dismal failure" stage
05:13 diakopter and they're probably mostly right, by their definition of dismal failure.
05:14 inchok78 i clearly recall that was the feeling on reddit a few years ago, but then left that too (...)
05:14 sorear the community was in a sorry state 2-3 years ago, and sometimes information propagates amazingly slowly through the internet
05:15 adu I think perl6 definitely needs more tutorials
05:15 TimToady if success is eventually defined by not letting the bastards wear you down, we've gotten real good at that part of it :)
05:15 TimToady the tutorials could use work though :)
05:17 diakopter to amend my previous statement, I agree that there is also lots of false information believed.
05:20 adu YEY
05:20 adu http://pastebin.com/GJ3enmmw
05:21 adu 0 to Scheme in less than a day!
05:21 diakopter anyone like/dislike my definition of used in production?
05:21 diakopter adu++ # most impressive
05:22 inchok78 may I say, usage of "production" differs slightly across segments of industry
05:23 inchok78 in my case, since it involves clinical/medical/veterinarian, a production system is one that has been validated to comply with applicable laws and regulations and is used to produce (quack!) information that is to be delivered to a customer
05:23 shinobicl joined #perl6
05:23 TimToady production, in the case of a language, also implies more commitment to backward compatibility than you're likely to find yet in Perl 6
05:24 adu Go took that step recently
05:24 adu they released "Go 1"
05:24 inchok78 (even though you'd be surprised what crap can be validated by the naive organization)
05:24 TimToady yes, and we'll get there as soon as our implementations and specs/tests converge on each other
05:26 shinobicl hi,,, i'm finished a module for perl6. i dont think it's ready for the ecosystem, though. But i think is good enough for a beta version.
05:26 TimToady at that point we'll also provide the user the ability to freeze at a particular semantic version, even if emulated by something newer
05:26 shinobicl https://github.com/shinobi/p6/t​ree/master/Date-WorkdayCalendar
05:26 adu diakopter: thanks
05:26 shinobicl left #perl6
05:27 adu diakopter: I think "used in production" has more to do with risk than business or large-ness
05:27 xenu_ joined #perl6
05:28 diakopter I think you and TimToady are defining "production ready", which is different from what I was defining
05:29 adu like keeping 1 person's heart beating isn't large or busy, but the risk of railure is high
05:29 adu fail
05:29 diakopter that's definitely a business activity
05:29 adu i suppose
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05:37 TimToady shinobicl_: \o/
05:38 * diakopter is still reading WorkdayCalendar.pm
05:38 shinobicl_ hi... had to switch computers...
05:38 shinobicl_ i'm on a tablet now :(
05:38 diakopter ooo repeat-until
05:42 diakopter shinobicl++ # it looks neat
05:42 diakopter shinobicl_: which implementation(s) did you develop on?
05:42 shinobicl_ rakudo only
05:43 shinobicl_ afaik niecza does not have Date yet
05:43 diakopter oh
05:43 adu crap
05:43 diakopter I wish I knew enough to comment on how idiomatic it is
05:44 adu parrot won't let me do that
05:44 shinobicl_ do what?
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05:48 adu have 2 languages
05:55 adu ergh
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06:47 moritz \o
06:48 adu hi moritz
06:50 moritz r: say 241025348275725.3352
06:50 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«241025348164334␤»
06:50 moritz r: say 241025348275725.3352.WHAT
06:50 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
06:51 moritz wtbh
06:51 moritz r: say 241025348275725.WHAT
06:51 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
06:51 moritz r: say 241025348275725
06:51 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«241025348275725␤»
06:51 adu r: say (a=>1).WHAT
06:51 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«Pair()␤»
06:52 adu r: say :a(1).WHAT
06:52 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«Pair()␤»
06:52 diakopter wtbh?
06:53 adu diakopter: which one?
06:53 diakopter I'm asking what wtbh means
06:53 moritz what the bloody hell
06:54 diakopter oh; heh
06:54 adu I'm guessing moritz is not from texas
06:54 moritz no, I'm not
06:54 * diakopter is
06:54 adu wow
06:54 moritz I'm closer to great britain than to use US, which might explain some of my vocabulary :-)
06:55 diakopter but I live in Cali now
06:55 moritz r: say 241025348275725.3352.perl
06:55 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«301281685344656669/1250␤»
06:56 moritz so it's just Rat.Str that is broken
06:56 moritz phew
06:56 moritz for a moment I thought the number parsing code is off again
06:56 goraki joined #perl6
06:56 diakopter did you see TimToady's r2s?
06:56 moritz no
06:57 diakopter in the backlog he gisted one
06:57 moritz ok
06:57 diakopter but it didn't work in p6eval parrot because of different word size
06:57 diakopter but it worked on TimToady's local rakudo
06:58 vlixes left #perl6
06:58 diakopter if I recall correctly
06:59 diakopter me++ for exposing the bug
07:00 diakopter well, masak++ too
07:00 diakopter karma me
07:00 aloha me has karma of 1.
07:00 diakopter giggle
07:00 adu lol
07:00 adu karma adu
07:00 aloha adu has karma of 1.
07:00 adu yey
07:02 moritz ok, the real problem is that Rat.floor falls back to Num, which it should not
07:02 jnthn morning, #perl6
07:02 diakopter ahoy
07:02 adu hi jnthn
07:02 * jnthn is teaching today and will be fairly distracted. But I'm aboutish :)
07:03 moritz \o jnthn
07:03 moritz r: say (-9) div 4
07:03 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«-2␤»
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07:04 diakopter r: say (-9) mod 4
07:04 sisar ^ thats the same bug i reported a few days back :)
07:04 p6eval rakudo 415791: OUTPUT«-1␤»
07:04 moritz sisar: I know
07:05 moritz sisar: and I have to take it into account when fixing Rat.floor
07:05 adu how is that a bug?
07:05 sisar oh right. :)
07:05 moritz adu: div is supposed to round down
07:05 moritz adu: not towards zero
07:06 sisar adu: "$x div $y == floor($x/$y)"
07:06 sisar yeah, what moritz++ said
07:06 adu I wrote a blog entry about that
07:06 sisar "round down" ~~ "round towards -Inf " :)
07:06 adu http://straymindcough.blogspot.c​om/2012/02/survey-of-divmod.html
07:08 moritz adu++ # nice survey
07:08 adu :) thanks
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07:47 moritz n: say <1/3>.gist
07:47 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«0.33333333333333331␤»
07:47 xenu joined #perl6
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 2abb9b7 | moritz++ | src/core/Rat.pm:
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: fix Rat.floor
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2abb9b7205
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: b0cd3cb | moritz++ | src/core/Rat.pm:
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: rewrite Rat.Str to use code by TimToady++
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: in particular it does not go through Num now
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b0cd3cbb00
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 24ffc9c | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert "add native str concatenation op"
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: This reverts commit ad3a7b6403d430a681a497b9ec4b67d0eeeacd52.
07:49 dalek rakudo/nom: It lead to occasional segfaults in splice.t
07:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/24ffc9c725
07:50 dalek roast: bc7e40e | moritz++ | S32-num/rat.t:
07:50 dalek roast: test stringification of big Rats (RT #112822)
07:50 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bc7e40ec50
07:50 moritz note that this fails a few tests in t/spec/S32-num/stringify.t; I'll take care of them later today
07:50 adu nom nom
07:52 diakopter p6eval: rebuild rakudo
07:52 diakopter I forget the lingo
07:52 moritz diakopter: that functionality is gone
07:53 diakopter oh :)
07:53 moritz diakopter: lost in the move to a different box
07:56 dalek roast: 59349dc | moritz++ | S32-num/rounders.t:
07:56 dalek roast: unfudge rounders.t for rakudo
07:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/59349dcf48
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08:13 diakopter n: $_="pattern"; s[pattern] = say(44)
08:13 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«44␤»
08:13 diakopter interesting
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08:18 moritz diakopter: what did you expect?
08:19 diakopter oh; I was just testing out what I was reading in S05
08:19 diakopter didn't have an expectation
08:20 diakopter I guess "interesting" meant "interesting that it worked"
08:24 moritz that's the good kind of "interesting" :-)
08:24 moritz afk
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08:28 dalek Perlito: b8def8a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
08:28 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - javascript: add GLOB references
08:28 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/b8def8ac37
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08:52 dalek Perlito: 47648d1 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | README-perlito5-js:
08:52 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - javascript data model: about compile-time lexicals
08:52 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/47648d1033
08:57 colomon moritz: DId you change Rat.floor and Rat.Str because Rat.Num is wrong?
08:58 moritz colomon: because Rat.Num isn't precise enough for large rats
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08:59 colomon won't that affect all uses of Rat.Num, not just those two?
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09:00 moritz no, I didn't touch Rat.Num
09:00 colomon not your changes, the imprecision problem.
09:00 moritz colomon: well, Num only has that much precision. Users of Rat.Num have to work with that.
09:01 moritz it's not that Rat.Num is too imprecise, it's that Num is too imprecise
09:04 rindolf fglock: here?
09:05 colomon r: say 3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.floor
09:05 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«3875928375982735␤»
09:05 colomon r: say 3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.ceil
09:05 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Method 'ceil' not found for invocant of class 'Rat'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/Zsk1OGwc_u:1␤␤»
09:06 jnthn ain't it .ceiling
09:06 colomon r: say 3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.ceiling
09:06 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«3875928375982730␤»
09:06 fglock rindolf: hi!
09:06 moritz .ceiling not yet fixed
09:07 colomon r: say 3875928375982735.383854792​874359827349682.floor.Num
09:07 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«3.87592837598274e+15␤»
09:07 rindolf fglock: hi.
09:07 sorear r: say 3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.WHAT
09:07 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
09:07 jnthn .oO( ceiling still floored )
09:07 sorear r: say '383854792874359827349682'.chars
09:07 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«24␤»
09:07 fglock :)
09:07 rindolf fglock: what's up?
09:08 sorear r: say 3875928375982735.3838547928​74359827349682.denominator
09:08 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«500000000000000000000000␤»
09:08 sorear r: say 3875928375982735.3838547928743​59827349682.denominator.chars
09:08 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«24␤»
09:08 sorear does rakudo know the difference between rats and fatrats?
09:08 fglock rindolf: all is fine, hope you are well too
09:08 sorear a number that long ought to be a Num
09:09 sorear r: say (2**64).chars
09:09 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«20␤»
09:09 rindolf fglock: why are the Perlito -I  paths limited to 20 characters or so? I tried setting up a shell script to run it from its installation path (to test if some of my CPAN code works with it), and it trimmed the path and complained about missing modules.
09:09 colomon n: say 3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682.WHAT
09:09 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
09:10 sorear r: say pi.WHAT
09:10 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
09:10 fglock rindolf: that's perlito5, right? are you using perl5 or node.js backend?
09:10 rindolf fglock: yes, it's Perlito5 - I think it happens with both.
09:12 fglock rindolf: stupid bug:         $lib = substr($ARGV[0], 2, 10); # no idea why it is limited
09:12 fglock I'll fix
09:12 rindolf fglock: thanks!
09:12 masak mornin', #perl6
09:12 fglock I think it was copy-pasted from some other line
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09:12 sorear hi masak.
09:12 tadzik hi masak
09:13 rindolf masak: good morning.
09:13 sorear (I will sleep& as soon as someone notices my Rakudo query, maybe sooner)
09:14 dalek Perlito: 933767d | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
09:14 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - unlimited -I path (rindolf++)
09:14 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/933767d66d
09:14 sorear sleep&
09:15 jnthn Rakudo certainly makes a Rat/FatRat distinction. I think it
09:15 jnthn oops
09:15 jnthn think it does it at the point of operation.
09:15 rindolf fglock: ah, without a test. :-(
09:17 fglock rindolf: btw about modules, Exporter.pm doesn't work yet because globs are still under implementation
09:18 rindolf fglock: I see.
09:19 daxim coke, you're my hero.  http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/tdq8h/pe​rl_6_compiler_passes_22k_of_24k_specification/
09:19 colomon jnthn: looking at the code, it looks to me like Rakudo makes the Rat / FatRat distinction but only when doing operations on Rat; it appears to allow you to construct what should be illegal Rats.
09:20 colomon r: say Rat.new(10, 459846953859348598439058937893​85943859038590839485983).WHAT
09:20 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
09:20 colomon guess it is a bit of an interesting question what that should do
09:20 colomon n: say Rat.new(10, 459846953859348598439058937893​85943859038590839485983).WHAT
09:20 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
09:21 masak would someone like to help me put together a good reply to http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/tdq8h/perl_6​_compiler_passes_22k_of_24k_specification/c4lvyhw ?
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09:22 moritz masak: I'm in a meeting, but after that I'll help you
09:23 masak here's what I have so far: S29 specifies fork/wait.
09:24 masak Rakudo certainly doesn't implement it. does Parrot have it? don't know. does Niecza implement it? will find out.
09:24 masak Rakudo implements IO and sockets. don't know about Niecza -- guessing not. Rakudo doesn't have async stuffs yet.
09:25 masak C embedding -- see zavolaj.
09:25 masak CPAN -- see, to a limited extent, blizkost.
09:25 arnsholt masak: In re ZeroMQ, it's in my inqueue of stuff to do
09:25 phenny arnsholt: 08 May 18:57Z <moritz> ask arnsholt if anything is blocking the merge of the cstr branches
09:26 arnsholt Just blocking on tuits
09:26 arnsholt And that, right
09:26 arnsholt No, nothing blocking to my knowledge. Just never got around to it
09:31 arnsholt I'll try to get it merged today
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09:34 colomon n: say "3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682".FatRat
09:34 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«3875928375982735.5␤»
09:35 colomon r: say "3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682".FatRat
09:35 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Method 'FatRat' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/3yoEonTvzo:1␤␤»
09:35 colomon r: say "3875928375982735.383854792874359827349682".Rat
09:35 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«3875928375982735.383854792874359809218276␤»
09:39 tadzik masak: Rakudo has .poll for non-blocking stuff though
09:39 tadzik MuEvent uses those
09:40 tadzik still, the .poll we have is quite LTA
09:42 masak ok.
09:42 masak arnsholt: ok, great.
09:42 tadzik and I know of no fork besides the one we were using through NativeCall
09:42 masak S29 specifies it.
09:44 arnsholt masak: But if people want/need it, I'd be happy to provide help with Zavolajing up an interface
09:47 masak \o/
09:49 arnsholt Hmm. I should ask the missus if she'd consider a trip to Frankfurt in late August
09:49 arnsholt Also, get around to submitting a Zavolaj talk
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09:55 masak \o/
09:56 masak when I read https://6guts.wordpress.com/20​12/05/08/since-the-hackathon/ this morning -- jnthn++ -- I got the feeling that, wow, we're really building up steam now. have we even been this productive?
09:59 dalek tablets: cefc0f9 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
09:59 dalek tablets: add some links for regex modifier and num types
09:59 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/cefc0f9a97
10:03 masak r: my $var = 5; say $var; { say $var; temp $var = 42; say $var }; say $var
10:03 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«5␤5␤42␤5␤»
10:03 masak \o/
10:04 * masak starts a background job in his brain to find out what fun uses 'temp' can be put to
10:06 tadzik hmm
10:07 frettled masak: I was very jnthn++ when I read about temp and let
10:07 tadzik r: my $a = 3; sub transaction { temp $a = 7; say "a = $a. Commiting"; OUTER::$a = $a }; transaction(); say $a
10:07 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2␤»
10:07 frettled I think I have around a bazillion use cases, give or take a few fantazillions.
10:08 tadzik r: my $a = 3; sub transaction { temp $a = 7; say "a = $a. Commiting"; OUTER::<$a> = $a }; transaction(); say $a
10:08 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«a = 7. Commiting␤3␤»
10:08 tadzik meh
10:08 tadzik oh, right
10:08 tadzik r: my $a = 3; sub transaction { let $a = 7; say "a = $a. Commiting"; OUTER::<$a> = $a }; transaction(); say $a
10:08 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«a = 7. Commiting␤7␤»
10:11 masak r: my $a = 3; sub transaction { let $a = 7; say "a = $a. Commiting" }; transaction(); say $a
10:11 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«a = 7. Commiting␤7␤»
10:11 masak don't need the OUTER::<$a> thing.
10:11 masak just make sure not to fail out of that block ;)
10:12 tadzik huh
10:12 tadzik okay, I don
10:12 tadzik 't get it :)
10:12 masak that's what "let" does. it's "set this variable to this value... but if we start backtracking/failing, revert it".
10:13 masak r: my $a = 42; sub foo { let $a = "this will never stick"; say $a; fail }; say $a; foo; say $a
10:13 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«42␤this will never stick␤this will never stick␤»
10:13 masak o.O
10:13 * masak submits rakudobug
10:14 tadzik :>
10:14 masak my hands are cursed.
10:14 masak jus' gonna make sure that's how 'let' is actually spec'd.
10:15 masak There is also a C<let> function that sets a
10:15 masak hypothetical value.  It works exactly like C<temp>, except that the
10:15 masak value will be restored only if the current block exits unsuccessfully.
10:15 masak exhibit A.
10:15 moritz r: sub f { LEAVE say 'leaving A' ; fail "foo"; }; f
10:15 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«leaving A␤»
10:16 masak In any case, returning an unthrown exception is considered failure
10:16 masak from the standpoint of C<let>.
10:16 masak exhibit B.
10:16 masak it's a bug.
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10:25 moritz r: sub f { UNDO say 'leaving A' ; fail "foo"; }; f
10:25 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9:  ( no output )
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10:27 masak yeah. should trigger.
10:28 moritz same underlying cause
10:28 jnthn Hmm, what underlies that one?
10:28 moritz because let uses an UNDO to restore the state
10:28 jnthn And UNDO...doesn't trigger here?
10:30 colomon std: 'abc  def' ~~ ms/abc def/
10:30 p6eval std f4748eb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $x in pattern match (m//) at STD.pm line 66537.â�¤Use of uninitialized value $x in concatenation (.) or string at STD.pm line 66576.â�¤[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Bogus term at /tmp/uhlig4Lkiw line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32m'abc  def' ~~ ms/abc …
10:30 colomon :\
10:30 colomon n: 'abc  def' ~~ ms/abc def/
10:30 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Bogus term at /tmp/a7iNtI9TEu line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32m'abc  def' ~~ ms/abc def/[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤     'def' used at line 1â�¤   'ms' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
10:31 colomon std: 'abc  def' ~~ m:s/abc def/
10:31 p6eval std f4748eb: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
10:31 colomon n: 'abc  def' ~~ m:s/abc def/
10:31 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85:  ( no output )
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10:36 masak are next/redo/last (or a subset of those) meant to trigger UNDO?
10:36 masak it feels odd for them to trigger KEEP...
10:37 masak though I seem to be able to say that with a bit more certainty about next and last than about redo. curious :)
10:39 tadzik (Perl 5 question, or is it?) having a sub like "do_something_ok" used for testing, is there a way to, somehow, test if it fails?
10:41 masak you want to test the testing function?
10:41 masak (just trying to understand your question)
10:42 masak depends how it fails, I guess.
10:42 tadzik not really
10:42 tadzik I have a function which does use ok() inside itself
10:42 tadzik I want to test its opposite reaction, somehow. I expect this test to fail
10:43 tadzik so I really want something like that_function_nok(), but it's not available
10:43 masak right.
10:43 moritz invokes_like &function, $result, $string;
10:43 masak localize &ok to mean &nok :P
10:44 masak though moritz++' proposal is probably saner.
10:44 tadzik where does invokes_like come from?
10:45 moritz tadzik: you write it
10:45 tadzik :)
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10:47 * masak .oO( aw man! no-one told me when I went into this software business that I'd have to write stuff on my own! :( )
10:47 tadzik I just thought it might be an already-solved problem
10:48 masak you wanted to re-use stuff? what are you, a hippie? :P
10:48 tadzik ;)
10:48 masak "That's not how we do things in an Enterprise environment."
10:49 mikec__ heh
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11:08 colomon phenny: tell TimToady Just looking over quote:mm in Niecza and std, wondering if there was a copy and paste mistake.  Seems to me that maybe quote:mm is implemented the way quote:ms should have been (it's not there at all) and quote:mm should also have .tweak(:mm) ?
11:08 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
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11:12 colomon phenny: tell TimToady errr... or does quote:mm not make any sense at all?  "The :mm (or :samemark) variant may be used on a substitution...."
11:12 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
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11:24 moritz mm// would be m:ignoremark//
11:24 moritz just as ms is m:sigspace and ss is s:samespace
11:24 moritz afk
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11:40 cognominal p6: my int $a = "1"  # this should not kick up from rakudo REPL
11:40 p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Malformed my at /tmp/0IDibzbhXB line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy[33mâ��[31m int $a = "1"  # this should not kick up[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
11:40 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 24ffc9:  ( no output )
11:42 cognominal r: my int $a = "1" ; say $a
11:42 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«1␤»
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11:42 mikec__ eee
11:42 colomon moritz: the sigspace.t file seems to claim mm// implies :sigspace as well.  but that doesn't make sense to me, and I don't see any trace of it in S05
11:42 cognominal strange, maybe this is due to local modifs
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11:42 masak colomon: that might be a fossil.
11:43 colomon masak: or a thinko?
11:43 masak masak: ISTR that mm// used to mean "match sigspace".
11:43 colomon oh!
11:43 masak the spec commit log can probably be trawled to confirm this, but... orka!
11:44 colomon orka?
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11:50 colomon hmmm.... The line mentioning ms// changed 18 months after the surrounding lines.
11:50 colomon and the quote:mm in STD.pm6 certainly makes more sense if it used to me m:s//
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11:54 colomon masak: fossil indeed: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c​b5919320430371ca0d76b4bb7727466ff45fd25
11:55 colomon so, am I brave enough to patch STD.pm6 myself?
11:58 jnthn r: sub f { UNDO say 1; Mu }; f
11:58 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«1␤»
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11:58 jnthn r: sub f { UNDO say 1; fail }; f
11:58 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9:  ( no output )
11:58 jnthn r: sub f { UNDO say 1; fail }; say f.defined
11:58 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:58 jnthn r: sub f { UNDO say 1; fail }; say f.DEFINITE
11:58 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«True␤»
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11:58 jnthn Hmmm...I wonder if UNDO is considering DEFINITE or defined.
12:02 dalek roast: 8a1e45c | (Solomon Foster)++ | S05-modifier/sigspace.t:
12:02 dalek roast: Turns out mm// should have been switched to ms// years ago.
12:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8a1e45cb73
12:03 jnthn /* Otherwise, need to consider the definedness of the return value. */
12:03 jnthn if (IS_CONCRETE(result))
12:03 jnthn ...yeah, that'll not get failures.
12:05 jnthn It's a very easy fix, but I'm at $classroom right now.
12:11 dalek std: 8632387 | (Solomon Foster)++ | STD.pm6:
12:11 dalek std: Change quote:mm to quote:ms, update Copyright for 2012.
12:11 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/86323873e8
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12:20 dalek tablets: 4e43cd1 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
12:20 dalek tablets: minor fixes
12:20 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/4e43cd1e44
12:20 colomon don't think I've ever committed to std before.  I feel very daring.... ;)
12:20 dalek niecza: daf09af | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/ (2 files):
12:20 dalek niecza: Switch quote:mm to quote:ms and add an action for it.
12:20 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/daf09afb6f
12:21 sisar colomon++
12:25 dalek tablets: e6c936a | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (6 files):
12:25 dalek tablets: rename file of appendix F
12:25 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/e6c936aecd
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12:37 frettled yay
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12:44 [Coke] moritz_: that alert is several weeks too late. Thanks. ;)
12:44 [Coke] Oh. You added a dot.
12:44 [Coke] ARGLEBARGLE.
12:45 [Coke] moritz_: is that spec? it's different than P5, no?
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12:46 [Coke] moritz_: updated.
12:47 * jnthn has laregly picked up the impression that this is somewhere we *should* be different from P5 :)_
12:47 [Coke] TimToady: FYI, I'm pretty sure most of those badly named parrot config items came from p5 about 12 years ago. ;)
12:51 [Coke] daxim++
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12:57 smash hello everyone
12:58 frettled Hello, smash!
12:58 [Coke] au, sorear, colomon: recent rakudo advances are causing our percentages to slip!
12:58 masak smash! \o/
12:59 masak [Coke]: but... that's a *good* thing, right? I mean, the net number of features implemented in compilers has increased.
13:00 [Coke] masak: ... I'm trying to guilt them into passing more tests.
13:00 masak by the way, I like how at one point Niecza was
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13:00 masak at the same point as Rakudo, or even past it.
13:00 [Coke] it's a common motivational technique that works better when I don't explain it in front of them. ;)
13:00 masak and then the benefits of nom kicked in.
13:00 masak [Coke]: oh, crap. sorry :P
13:00 colomon [Coke]: I just got three more passing tests!
13:01 [Coke] masak: also, hey... you owe me a pugs patch. ;)
13:01 [Coke] colomon: WOOO
13:01 masak [Coke]: I do?
13:01 [Coke] btw, rakudo just got like 200+ yesterday. :(
13:01 masak in the future, I'll try not to make it seem we're all on the same side here... :P
13:01 [Coke] masak: yes. the only reason I started testing pugs was because you and ingy were going to hack on it!
13:02 masak [Coke]: it's right there on my list of priorities.
13:02 smash pugs still lives !?
13:02 masak right below macros for Rakudo and finalizing p6cc2011.
13:02 [Coke] smash:
13:02 [Coke] # 05/08/2012 - rakudo++ (21760); niecza (93.61%); pugs (41.9%)
13:02 PerlJam smash: pugs is still on life-support, but it lives  :)
13:02 [Coke] those are yesterday's numbers. rakudo is over 22K before today's run, though.
13:03 smash very nice
13:03 [Coke] "Impl",      "pass","fail","todo","skip","plan","spec"
13:03 [Coke] # 05/08/2012 - rakudo++ (21760); niecza (93.61%); pugs (41.9%)
13:03 [Coke] "niecza",     20371,    16,   762,  1455, 22589, 24103
13:03 [Coke] "pugs"  ,      9119,     9,  3339,  1555, 14022, 23964
13:03 [Coke] "rakudo",     21760,    70,   709,  1884, 24423, 24113
13:04 [Coke] rakudo's failure #'s slipping. wonder if that was due to the libpath issue.
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13:09 tadzik huh, why are "spec" numbers different between implementations?
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13:09 masak and why is Rakudo's "plan" higher than its "spec"?
13:11 mikec__ heh
13:11 [Coke] tadzik: I believe spec is "number of spec tests I looked at while running". different due to individual t/spectest.data
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13:12 tadzik mhm
13:14 [Coke] masak: Probably due to "no plan"
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13:14 [Coke] masak: I'm only guessing on that one.
13:15 masak how would "no plan" make "plan" higher? :P
13:15 dalek roast: 52e175f | (Solomon Foster)++ | S05-modifier/counted.t:
13:15 dalek roast: Fix plan. (Suspect there may be a skip count problem under Rakudo.)
13:15 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/52e175fe52
13:16 [Coke] masak; t/spec/test_summary - I just run it.
13:17 daxim [Coke], we can haz pugs on <http://perl6.org/compilers/features>?  is it enough to symlink roast as Pugs.hs/t/spec and then execute t/run_spectests?
13:17 [Coke] daxim: check out HACKING in github.com/perl6/Pugs.hs
13:18 [Coke] daxim - some enterprising soul could add pugs to compiler features, sure.
13:18 [Coke] (probably not going to be me, at least not until June.)
13:18 [Coke] masak: so, I don't see anything obvious there to explain your question.
13:18 daxim what's so special about June?
13:19 [Coke] daxim;I have a huge project due this month
13:19 [Coke] $dayjob
13:19 daxim aha
13:20 jlaire n: module A { }; say A.WHAT
13:20 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤  at Niecza.STable.FindMethod (System.String name) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at Niecza.P6any.InvokeMethod (Niecza.Frame caller, System.String…
13:20 dalek roast: 30c291b | (Solomon Foster)++ | S06-multi/proto.t:
13:20 dalek roast: Refudge for niecza.
13:20 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/30c291b77a
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13:30 [Coke] daxim - so, in the meantime, by all means, start hacking on that. ;)
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13:45 colomon moritz_: what's your justification for 241025348275725.3352.Str   ~~ /241025348275725\.33/  ?
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13:50 dalek roast: de9b0b4 | kboga++ | S05-modifier/counted.t:
13:50 dalek roast: remove erroneous DOES marking, in answer to 52e175f
13:50 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/de9b0b4ff5
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14:04 colomon moritz_: actually, now reading what the spec actually say and getting worried that both approaches are incorrect....
14:04 dalek roast: 0d67b20 | kboga++ | S05-modifier/counted.t:
14:04 dalek roast: Oops, restore doc comment accidently removed in de9b0b4, kboga--
14:04 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0d67b20d10
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14:22 tadzik oh, kboga++ keeps rocking :) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/66
14:22 colomon ack, there are mistakes all over the specs for Rat.perl and Rat.Str.  :(
14:24 kboga tadzik, mostly copy pasted from the ng branch, was just wondering why this wasn't in the nom branch yet :)
14:24 tadzik kboga: nice catch :)
14:24 colomon phenny: tell TimToady We need to talk about Rat.perl and Rat.Str....
14:24 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
14:24 tadzik and nice patch
14:24 tadzik (pun indented)
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14:24 kboga :)
14:25 tadzik I'm at $work atm so I can't really give it a try though :(
14:26 kboga np, also, the pack.t tests seem to require Buf to have a contents method, couldn't find it in the spec's tho...
14:26 tadzik you should probably ask masak++ about it
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14:28 masak yeah, probably.
14:28 masak masak claims he knows a bunch about pack/unpack and how to implement them in Perl 6.
14:29 masak myself, I think he's just a poser. :P
14:29 kboga didn't he implement that initial version I blatantly copy pasted? :)
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14:30 masak probably.
14:30 masak I hear he's tried to port the Perl 5 tests to Perl 6 as well, but nothing concrete's even come of that.
14:31 masak kboga: here's a gist from long ago about pack/unpack: https://gist.github.com/1239203
14:31 tadzik hmmm. Doesn't perlito have a perl5-to-perl6 compiler?
14:31 PerlJam Do we have a list of the things that were once implemented and working in Rakudo, but got left behind as we moved from alpha to ng to nom?
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14:35 jnthn [Coke]: Is that 21xxx passing number you posted today from yesterday's run?
14:36 * jnthn is curious where the increasing failures come from too...
14:37 brrt r: sprintf("hello, %d", 42);
14:37 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9:  ( no output )
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14:37 brrt r: say(sprintf("hello, %d", 42));
14:37 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«hello, 42␤»
14:37 jnthn kboga++
14:39 kboga masak: oh, so pack should really impose some kind of type restriction on the item its packing using a certain template rule?
14:39 kboga test failures come from: t/spec/S32-num/stringify.t (so it seems)
14:39 jnthn ah, ok
14:40 jnthn Which I think moritz++ is on top of already
14:40 masak kboga: yes, that's a good summary. Perl 6 is more type-constrained in this area than Perl 5. so it needs to disallow certain combinations.
14:41 masak kboga: that said, we still want to make easy things easy, so it's a balance for sure. one we haven't found yet.
14:42 jnthn .oO( it's like trying to balance a camel on the wings of a butterfly )
14:43 masak metaphor++
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14:44 frettled Are you trying to see how many metaphors you can balance on the head of a pin, or how big a metaphor you can phase through the eye of a needle?
14:45 colomon actually, by current spec most of the Rat tests in stringify.t are wrong.
14:46 kboga I'm curious about how compact structs will mix with pack & unpack. Somehow it reminds me of Convert::Binary::C.
14:47 gfldex S03 says: "Any class composing the Pattern role may choose to provide a single ACCEPTS method to handle everything, which corresponds to those pattern types that have only one entry with an Any on the left above."
14:47 gfldex yet i can't find any role named Pattern, is that NYI?
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14:52 jnthn Wow, I didn't even know it existed...
14:52 kresike joined #perl6
14:53 * jnthn wonders if there's any spectests for it
14:53 jnthn kboga: Compact structs should go fairly nicely with it.
14:53 jnthn Well, they probably are an alternative I guess...
14:54 jnthn Taking a Buf and using the data in it to populate the compact struct.
14:54 jnthn Though, we could actually implement the data extraction from Buf using unpack I guess.
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14:57 jnthn You get into all kinds of fun questions about what "compact" implies
14:57 jnthn Like, does it mean "pack it as tightly as you can" or does it mean "pack it as tightly as the usual way to back a struct on the underlying architecture would allow"
14:58 jnthn s/back/pack/
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15:11 [Coke] how soon until I can use perl 6 instead of J2EE. bleargh.
15:11 [Coke] jnthn: yes, yesterday's run (it's even got the date in it, sir. ;)
15:14 fglock tadzik: perlito has some basic perl5-to-perl6 stuff implemented, just to try out and see what kind of problems would come up
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15:20 fglock tadzik: are you interested in p5-to-p6?
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15:36 sisar if I recompile Rakudo, do I need to recompile _all_ my modules too ? coz i'm getting an error: "Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/Metamodel.pm'"
15:38 sisar hmm, maybe i need to recompile panda first ?
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15:54 gfldex p6: my @data = $<1 2 3>, $<4 5 6>; say @data.perl;
15:54 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«[Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any].list␤»
15:54 p6eval ..rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any)␤»
15:54 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«\(undef, undef, undef, undef, undef, undef)␤»
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16:00 colomon interesting
16:01 colomon guess that's $/{1 2 3} etc?
16:03 colomon n: "abc" ~~ /(.)*/; my @data = $<1 2 3>; say @data.perl
16:03 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«[Any, Any, Any].list␤»
16:03 colomon n: "abc" ~~ /(.)*/; my @data = $<1 2 3>; say @data.per
16:03 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method per in class Array␤  at /tmp/p4JczqkKid line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3841 (module-CORE @ 65) ␤  at /home/p…
16:03 colomon bah
16:04 colomon n: say 241025348275725.3352.WHAT
16:04 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
16:05 gfldex i think $<...> is just a syntax error but i would not wonder to be wrong
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16:05 colomon std: $<1 2 3>
16:05 p6eval std 8632387: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 40m␤»
16:06 colomon n: my %hash = 1..10 X=> 3; say %hash<1 2 3>
16:06 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«3 3 3␤»
16:06 gfldex if it's not just a false positive on line noise i would it expect to do the same as $(1,2,3)
16:06 gfldex *would expect
16:07 colomon $a<1 2 3> is the same as $a{1, 2, 3}
16:08 gfldex maybe TimToady can enlighten us here
16:09 colomon I think (as I said) that $<1 2 3> ought to be the same as $/{1, 2, 3}  (where $/ is the match result)
16:10 colomon n: "456" ~~ /<digit>*/; say $<digit>
16:10 colomon \
16:10 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(4) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> #<match from(1) to(2) text(5) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> #<match from(2) to(3) text(6) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
16:11 colomon n: "456" ~~ /<1=digit><2=digit><3=digit>/; say $<123>
16:11 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized regex assertion at /tmp/t6CcR74EDi line 1:â�¤------> [32m"456" ~~ /<[33mâ��[31m1=digit><2=digit><3=digit>/; say $<123>[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
16:11 colomon n: "456" ~~ /<digit=3><digit=3><digit=3>/; say $<1 2 3>
16:11 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized regex assertion at /tmp/zs2UA3mvLT line 1:â�¤------> [32m"456" ~~ /<digit=[33mâ��[31m3><digit=3><digit=3>/; say $<1 2 3>[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
16:11 gfldex i found it http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Twigils
16:12 colomon n: "456" ~~ /<d1=digit><d2=digit><d3=digit>/; say $<d1 d2 d3>
16:12 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(4) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> #<match from(1) to(2) text(5) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> #<match from(2) to(3) text(6) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
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16:12 colomon n: "456" ~~ /<d1=digit><d2=digit><d3=digit>/; say ~$<d1 d2 d3>
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16:12 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«4 5 6␤»
16:12 colomon there you go
16:13 colomon n: say 241025348275725.3352.nude
16:13 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«301281685344656669 1250␤»
16:13 colomon n: say 241025348275725.3352.Rat.nude
16:13 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«258138148003301834 1071␤»
16:13 colomon :\
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16:15 colomon this is going to be one stupid looking test in rat.t
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16:16 gfldex as long as nobody tries to google for "nude rat" ...
16:18 * jnthn back
16:18 colomon gfldex: already plenty of hits for that without p6
16:21 * colomon 's code is now .Rat.norm.nude anyway
16:22 colomon ..... which NIecza doesn't implement yet.  Arrrrrgh!
16:22 colomon this is quickly becoming a rathole
16:23 * TimToady might be awake enough to discuss rats
16:23 phenny TimToady: 11:08Z <colomon> tell TimToady Just looking over quote:mm in Niecza and std, wondering if there was a copy and paste mistake.  Seems to me that maybe quote:mm is implemented the way quote:ms should have been (it's not there at all) and quote:mm should also have .tweak(:mm) ?
16:23 phenny TimToady: 11:12Z <colomon> tell TimToady errr... or does quote:mm not make any sense at all?  "The :mm (or :samemark) variant may be used on a substitution...."
16:23 phenny TimToady: 14:24Z <colomon> tell TimToady We need to talk about Rat.perl and Rat.Str....
16:24 colomon TimToady: I think I sorted out the mm/ms thing -- when mm// became ms//, STD.pm6 was never updated to match.  (I have now done so.)
16:24 TimToady I saw that
16:24 * TimToady wonders if we should allow <1=digit> and such
16:24 TimToady and maybe simplify <~~1> to <1>
16:24 colomon well, I was just trying it to get $<1 2 3> to make sense
16:25 colomon as for Rats -- my big question is, are we really serious about "The .perl method will produce a decimal number if the denominator is a power of 10, or normalizable to a power of 10 (that is, having factors of only 2 and 5 (and -1)). Otherwise it will normalize and return a rational literal of the form -47/3."  ?
16:25 colomon (and that should be <-47/3>, right?)
16:25 colomon the spec is not at all consistent on this.
16:26 TimToady .oO(now they want the specs to be *consistent*, sheesh...)
16:26 colomon I'm working on implementing a new Rat -> Str conversion that follows what the spec actually says.  :)
16:27 TimToady well, the spec might be wrong :)
16:27 TimToady it's happened once or twice
16:27 colomon the spec certainly is wrong somewhere here... it's 100% definitely not consistent
16:28 masak r: "foobarbaz" ~~ /$<foo>=(...)$<bar>=(...)$<baz>=(...)/; my (:$foo, :$bar, :$baz) := $/; .say for $foo, $bar, $baz
16:28 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Binding to signatures in my declarations not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/S72cea3Vyz:1␤»
16:28 masak huh!
16:28 masak should the above work? or some equivalent of it?
16:29 masak sometimes we want to mass-assign from Match objects.
16:29 TimToady why not?  Captures are named that partly because they're like match objects
16:29 masak r: "foobarbaz" ~~ /(...)(...)(...)/; my ($foo, $bar, $baz) = $/[^2]; .say for $foo, $bar, $baz
16:29 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«=> <foo>␤␤=> <bar>␤␤Nil␤»
16:29 masak r: "foobarbaz" ~~ /(...)(...)(...)/; my ($foo, $bar, $baz) = $/[^3]; .say for $foo, $bar, $baz
16:30 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«=> <foo>␤␤=> <bar>␤␤=> <baz>␤␤»
16:30 masak off-by-one fail ;)
16:30 jnthn masak: The error message is accurate.
16:31 masak that it's not yet implemented?
16:31 tadzik fglock: it just came to my mind that it could be used to translate pack/unpacn tests to Perl 6
16:31 jnthn masak: Yes.
16:32 jnthn masak: It knows what it is, and it knows that it doesn't know how to do it :)
16:32 TimToady tadzik: I seriously doubt that bit of the translator is implemented
16:32 colomon TimToady: personally I like essence (as I take it) of the stated Rat rules; I just want to clean up the rest of the spec bits to match.
16:32 TimToady or do you mean translate everything around the tests, but leave the formats the same?
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16:33 tadzik TimToady: possible; just a random thought
16:33 masak jnthn: I think this used to work, in b, no?
16:33 jnthn masak: "work"
16:33 PerlJam TimToady: does <!~~1> exist?  If so, what would that become if <~~1> became <1>?
16:33 jnthn masak: Also, the implementation of it was horrible.
16:34 masak oki
16:34 tadzik phenny: tell sisar yes, you need to recompile ALL THE THINGS
16:34 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when sisar is around.
16:34 TimToady reducing <~~1> to <1> doesn't help get rid of <~~foo> anyway, since <foo> means something different
16:34 TimToady but <1=foo> is easier to read than $1=<foo>
16:34 jnthn It's probably more consistent to leave it as <~~1>
16:34 jnthn <1=foo> wfm though
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16:35 TimToady as for <!...>, that's really a sort of metaoperator, and recursively calls <...>
16:35 TimToady s/calls/parses/
16:35 TimToady so you can pretty much put a ! in front of any assertion, even ones that don't make sense
16:36 TimToady std: / <!foo=bar> /
16:36 p6eval std 8632387: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
16:36 TimToady that would set $<foo> then immediately fail if bar matched :/
16:38 TimToady n: 'foobar' ~~ / <?foo=bar> /; say $/
16:39 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method bar in class Cursor␤  at /tmp/RsVoOywMev line 1 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2803 (Regex.ACCEPTS @ 4) ␤  at /tmp/RsVoOywMev line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.…
16:39 TimToady duh
16:39 TimToady n: 'foobar' ~~ / <?foo=ident> /; say $/
16:39 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(0) text() pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
16:39 TimToady n: 'foobar' ~~ / <?foo=ident> /; say $<foo>
16:39 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
16:40 masak TimToady: maybe the ones that don't make sense could have nice error messages, like "you did A and B, but they don't make sense" :)
16:40 PerlJam I don't know ... they makes sense, just not *useful* sense  :)
16:41 TimToady maybe we could fill memory with nice error messages that most people will never see
16:41 TimToady some things just have to be erroneous
16:42 masak n: fork; say "alive"
16:42 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤      'fork' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1364 (die @ 3) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 33) â�¤  at /home…
16:43 dalek roast: eeb63aa | moritz++ | S32-num/stringify.t:
16:43 dalek roast: fudge some Rat stringification tests for rakudo
16:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/eeb63aaccd
16:43 TimToady masak: easy to fix: just port blizkost to niecza, then call P5's fork
16:44 colomon :p
16:45 jnthn star: use NativeCall; sub fork() is native returns Int { * }; fork(); say "alive";
16:45 p6eval star 2012.04: OUTPUT«alive␤»
16:45 jnthn :)
16:45 TimToady um, shouldn't it have said alive twice if it really worked?
16:46 TimToady eval: fork; print "alive\n";
16:46 buubot_backup TimToady: alive 1
16:46 jnthn TimToady: It does, but p6eval doesn't capture the one from the subprocess.
16:46 TimToady ah
16:46 TimToady eval: sleep 1 if fork; print "alive\n";
16:46 buubot_backup TimToady: alive 1
16:47 TimToady how does it lose STDOUT from the grandkid?
16:47 masak moritz_: I wrote a reply to http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/tdq8h/perl_6​_compiler_passes_22k_of_24k_specification/c4lvyhw
16:49 moritz_ masak++
16:49 moritz_ masak: sorry for abandonding you on this one
16:49 sergot joined #perl6
16:49 sergot hi o/
16:50 masak sergocie! \o/
16:50 sergot masak! \o/
16:50 masak moritz_: no worries at all. I'm glad I remembered ;)
16:50 fglock tadzik: t/op/pack.t uses simple perl5, it should be easy to re-edit to perl6 by hand (if the expected results are the same)
16:51 sergot I'll be 'back' in few days. It'll be the end of school masak! :)
16:52 ingy [Coke]: I've fallen into an ActivePit!
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16:53 masak moritz_: what's the URL to your post about "no, passing all the spectests won't mean anything".
16:54 moritz_ masak: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/when-we-re​ach-100-percent-we-did-something-wrong.html
16:54 masak thanks.
16:54 moritz_ it's easy to search for if you happen to remember the title :-)
16:55 TimToady colomon: anyway, I've taken a dislike to the part of the spec that stringifies Rat via Num, which violates POLS by throwing away precision above the decimal point for largish numbers
16:55 masak well, I tried ddg'ing before asking.
16:56 masak moritz_: used your post in a reply here: http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/tdq8h/perl_6​_compiler_passes_22k_of_24k_specification/c4lzli7
16:56 moritz_ masak: I ddg'ed too. But I remembered the exact title :-)
16:57 masak aye, that helps.
16:57 TimToady I think a Rat.Str should always produce the integer part exactly, and how much of the fraction is negotiable
16:58 TimToady of course, my stupid little routine doesn't handle :base, nor did it bother to round the last digit
16:58 TimToady it was more a proof of concept
16:59 TimToady and running 1/3 all the way out to 50 digits could be construed as antisocial :)
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17:10 fglock p5-to-p6 would emit unmaintainable code that goes through an emulation layer, that's not good for translating tests (this is not a perlito specific problem)
17:13 preflex joined #perl6
17:14 masak nod.
17:15 masak though for narrower use cases, it's still possible to get something useful out the other end.
17:16 TimToady I could see a use for a translator that does the easy stuff, but just marks the hard stuff rather than trying to emulate it
17:19 fglock hmm - that sounds... easy
17:22 * TimToady contemplates the delicious disruption of putting overbars on the repeating digits of a rat that repeats...
17:23 TimToady (and of reading those overbars correctly on input :)
17:26 sorear good * #perl6
17:26 sorear masak: the Mono documentation is pretty clear that calling fork() from inside Mono is a Bad Idea
17:26 sorear something something finalizer threads not being copied to the new process
17:34 masak oki
17:48 jlaire I want to create and export many subs of the form   sub h1($x) { f('h1', $x) }   for various values of h1, any suggestions for a good way to do that? I'm using niecza
17:49 moritz_ jlaire: I could only help you with rakudo
17:50 jlaire moritz_: that would be interesting to see, too
17:50 jlaire I just don't have enough memory to compile rakudo at the moment
17:51 moritz_ jlaire: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2012​-rakudo-hack-dynamic-export-lists.html
17:51 jlaire moritz_: thanks, I'll read it
17:53 jlaire I'm trying to create a library/dsl for generating CSS, somewhat like lesscss but inside Perl 6
17:54 sorear jlaire: it seems you can't use eval until I fix the newest bug
17:54 jlaire sorear: okay
17:54 jlaire I'm in no hurry with this
17:55 sorear jlaire: try generating your subs using a closure, like sub make_foo($foo) { sub ($x) { f($foo, $x) } }
17:55 sorear then poke them into $::EXPORT::DEFAULT::($foo) at BEGIN time; some trial and error will be needed, and it might not work at all
17:55 sorear I have to leave now&
17:56 moritz_ n: trait_mod:<is>(sub f() { "oh hai" }, :export);
17:56 p6eval niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤      'trait_mod:<is>' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  &f is declared but not used at /tmp/Sbb1hzPnKC line 1:â�¤------> [32mtrait_mod:<is>(sub f[33mâ��[31m() { "oh hai" }, :export);[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exce…
17:56 jlaire thanks, I'll experiment
17:57 jlaire at the moment I'm generating lesscss with a Perl 5 script, which is then translated to css; I'd love a single tool that does both steps
17:58 moritz_ in rakudo you can also put stuff into EXPORT packages
17:59 moritz_ r: module A { package EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> := sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; import A; foo()
17:59 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&foo' called (line 1)␤»
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18:00 moritz_ oops.
18:00 moritz_ r: module A { our package EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> := sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; import A; foo()
18:00 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&foo' called (line 1)␤»
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18:03 masak TimToady: [backlog] in English, n-ple negation is considered nonstandard. in Polish, it's mandatory.
18:03 tadzik hm?
18:08 daxim "I don't know nobody!"
18:09 masak tadzik: I'm no expert, but it seems to me there are often >1 negation in negated Polish sentences.
18:09 daxim slavic is funny that way
18:10 masak tadzik: words like "nobody", "nowhere" etc get used rather than "anybody", "anywhere" as would be the case in English.
18:10 masak nom &
18:11 tadzik I see
18:11 tadzik yeah, double negation is normal :)
18:12 TimToady masak: yes, English is in the minority on that issue
18:13 jnthn moritz_: Hmm...why'd that import not find foo?
18:13 moritz_ jnthn: I don't know
18:14 moritz_ r: module A { sub f() is export { } }; import A; f()
18:14 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9:  ( no output )
18:14 moritz_ r: module A { sub f() is export { } }; module B { }; import B; f()
18:14 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&f' called (line 1)␤»
18:15 moritz_ I thought it might wronly use the UNIT::EXPORT. It doesn#t
18:15 jnthn yeah, that was top of my guess list. But glad it's not that :)
18:15 jnthn r: module A { package EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN OUR::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> := sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; import A; foo()
18:15 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&foo' called (line 1)␤»
18:16 jnthn r: module A { package EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> = sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; import A; foo()
18:16 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&foo' called (line 1)␤»
18:16 moritz_ r: module A { sub f() is export { } }; say A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::.keys
18:16 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«&f␤»
18:16 jnthn wt?
18:17 moritz_ r: module A { package EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> = sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; say A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::.keys
18:17 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol 'A::EXPORT::&DEFAULT'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/YcRu5ZDxGA:1␤␤»
18:17 moritz_ r: module A { our package EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> = sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; say A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::.keys
18:17 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol 'A::EXPORT::&DEFAULT'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/r9bbdlawoS:1␤␤»
18:18 jnthn r: module A { package EXPORT { package DEFAULT { } }; BEGIN OUR::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> := sub () { say 'OH SHARK' } }; import A; foo()
18:18 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«OH SHARK␤»
18:18 moritz_ r: our package A::EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> = sub () { say 'OH SHARK' }; say A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::.keys
18:18 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«&foo␤»
18:18 moritz_ r: our package A::EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> = sub () { say 'OH SHARK' }; import A; f()
18:18 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&f' called (line 1)␤»
18:18 moritz_ r: our package A::EXPORT::DEFAULT { }; BEGIN A::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&foo> = sub () { say 'OH SHARK' }; import A; foo()
18:18 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«OH SHARK␤»
18:20 jnthn moritz_: Looks like the package EXPORT::DEFAULT { } inside A does the wrong thing.
18:21 jnthn moritz_: It's looking rather too hard for an EXPORT to already exist.
18:21 jnthn And then finds UNIT::EXPORT.
18:21 moritz_ oh, right
18:21 jnthn dinner, bbiab
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18:40 colomon TimToady: aiiii!  so not only are the spectests and examples in the spec wrong, the spec itself is wrong too?  yowsa!
18:41 colomon TimToady: mind you, I think I agree with your basic idea.
18:42 fglock I'm reading old stuff to find more about Perl5 implementation decisions
18:42 fglock http://www.perl.com/pub/1999/09/topaz.html - I wonder why no perl5-in-perl5 at that time
18:44 [Coke] r: sub f { UNDO say 'leaving A' ; die "foo"; }; f
18:44 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9: OUTPUT«foo␤  in sub f at /tmp/DOMBKYe3eC:1␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/DOMBKYe3eC:1␤␤»
18:51 moritz_ does anybody know a nice palindrome which contains non-ASCII characters?
18:53 TimToady http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pal​indrome#Non-English_palindromes
18:54 [Coke] moritz_: ΝΙΨΟΝ ΑΝΟΜΗΜΑΤΑ ΜΗ ΜΟΝΑΝ ΟΨΙΝ.
18:54 * jlaire can't think of any finnish ones with ä or ö
18:54 [Coke] (http://jeppesn.dk/utf-8.html) I probably should have run it through gtrans first. ;)
18:55 TimToady something about "winds"
18:56 moritz_ TimToady++, [Coke]++
18:56 TimToady phenny: gk en "ΝΙΨΟΝ ΑΝΟΜΗΜΑΤΑ ΜΗ ΜΟΝΑΝ ΟΨΙΝ"?
18:56 phenny TimToady: "NIPSON sins MONAN NOT COVERED" (el to en, translate.google.com)
18:57 TimToady oh, okay, that's an alpha privative on "laws", so "lawless"
18:57 jlaire phenny: "saippuakivikauppias"?
18:57 phenny jlaire: "soap stone dealer" (fi to en, translate.google.com)
18:58 TimToady yeah, but that's ascii...
18:58 jlaire right
19:00 jlaire สวัส is phonetically palindromic, kinda
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19:17 * jnthn back from noms
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19:27 rindolf jnthn: hope you enjoyed your meal.
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19:37 jnthn rindolf: yes, thanks :)
19:37 rindolf jnthn: what did you have?
19:39 jnthn rindolf: Some mushroomy pasta dish :)
19:39 rindolf jnthn: ah.
19:39 rindolf jnthn: with cream?
19:40 jnthn Yeah. Cream, and some white pepper.
19:45 TimToady perl6: https://gist.github.com/2648301
19:45 p6eval rakudo 24ffc9, niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«241025348275725.3352␤42.666667␤0.​5␤0.333333␤0.25␤0.2␤0.166667␤0.142857␤»
19:45 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected end of input␤    expecting operator␤    at /tmp/nEgANf2kzT line 10, column 25␤»
19:46 TimToady this is more like what we should have by default for Rat.Str
19:46 TimToady colomon: ^^
19:47 * moritz_ will steal it for rakudo :-)
19:47 TimToady the precision is determined by the size of the denominator remaining after removing the integer part
19:48 TimToady but with a minimum of 6
19:48 TimToady but that automatically gets shortened for things that go evenly into decimal
19:48 jnthn TimToady++, moritz_++
19:48 rindolf jnthn: nice.
19:49 TimToady the funny thing is that it's using string increment to round the fractional part :)
19:50 TimToady also, I'm sure the whole thing could be made considerably more efficient
19:51 TimToady it's also possible all the hanky panky with %% 2 and %% 5 is unnecessary due to the +1 fudge
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19:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 9a49814 | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
19:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Consider .defined, not just .DEFINITE, when deciding whether to run KEEP/UNDO phasers. Fixes fail() not triggering UNDO, and that in turn fixes the 'let' handling.
19:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9a49814bb0
19:56 moritz jnthn++
19:57 TimToady yes, it seems unnecessary, since multiplying by 2 or 5 can give at most one more digit, which the fudged length will catch even for 1/5000000000 and such
19:59 jnthn Tagged the ticket for it testneeded too. Plus one about ff
20:03 TimToady simplified the gist
20:03 TimToady perl6: https://gist.github.com/2648301
20:03 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "denominator"␤    expecting operator or "}"␤    at /tmp/N4yZd76w5k line 9, column 22␤»
20:03 p6eval ..rakudo 24ffc9, niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«0.0000000002␤0.0000000005␤»
20:04 TimToady moritz: ^^ use this one instead
20:04 colomon TimToady: interesting, your approach to this was very different than mine...
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20:05 TimToady if yours is faster and produces the same results, go for it
20:05 TimToady I was more prototyping policy than anything else
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20:07 TimToady the important part is to leave the integer part out of the precision calculation entirely
20:08 TimToady the rest is negotiable, but 6 digits for repeaters seems to fit with the %f format default
20:09 TimToady and gets all the repeating digits for 1/7
20:10 TimToady the important thing is that it never loses precision for denominators that are sufficiently decimal
20:11 TimToady I *think* one digit of slop is enough to guarantee that, but I have no proof...
20:12 TimToady anyway, the gist above has a rudimentary test of that out past the six digit minimum
20:12 TimToady and seems to work for those two numbers anyway
20:13 TimToady there's probably a faster way to take the log10 of the number than look at the length of the string conversion
20:14 * jnthn figgers out what's up in #112624
20:14 colomon well, my approach was very different, as I was only trying to get all the decimal digits for cases that were supposed to be exact according to the existing spec.
20:14 jnthn Not sure I've got the energy to fix it tonight, though.
20:14 * jnthn leaves it for tomorrow
20:15 TimToady colomon: well, turns out you can get that for "free" with this approach
20:17 jnthn moritz: I think https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=112586 is taken care of now?
20:18 TimToady it's also probably faster to compare the number with 1_000_000 than to stringify it and max with 6
20:19 TimToady so that line would be something more like:
20:19 TimToady my $want = $r.denominator < 1_000_000 ?? 6 !! $r.denominator.Str.chars + 1;
20:20 TimToady or maybe that wants to be 100_000, since we should fudge a large 6-digit number up to 7
20:23 TimToady okay, gist revised again
20:23 TimToady perl6: https://gist.github.com/2648301
20:23 p6eval rakudo 9a4981, niecza v17-3-gdaf09af: OUTPUT«0.0000000002␤0.0000000005␤»
20:23 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Int: "&Str"␤    at /tmp/h4BykFVpxF line 9, column 15-81␤»
20:24 shinobicl_ hi all.... is there a way to get a "review" to a perl6 module i did, so it gets published in modules.perl6.org?
20:28 jnthn shinobicl_: Does it already have a META.info?
20:28 shinobicl_ yes
20:28 shinobicl_ https://github.com/shinobi/p6/t​ree/master/Date-WorkdayCalendar
20:28 jnthn Then it just needs to end up in https://github.com/perl6/eco​system/blob/master/META.list
20:28 sergot_ joined #perl6
20:29 shinobicl_ i just have a doubt about what to put exactly on the source-url field
20:30 dalek ecosystem: 17179c6 | jonathan++ | META.list:
20:30 dalek ecosystem: Add Date:WorkdayCalendar to ecosystem; shinobicl++.
20:30 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/17179c6420
20:31 jnthn shinobicl_: Put the URL of the git repo: git://github.com/shinobi/p6.git
20:31 shinobicl_ thanks!
20:31 shinobicl_ ok
20:31 jnthn oh, wait...
20:31 jnthn You have one repo for all Perl 6 stuff
20:31 jnthn I think it's meant to be one per module
20:31 shinobicl_ oh i see
20:32 jnthn yeah...otherwise I suspect panda won't know to look inside that "p6" directory
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20:33 jnthn I guess easiest solution is that GitHub lets you rename a repo, and then just do a commit that moves stuff out of the directoy into top-level
20:33 shinobicl_ i'll create a new one then
20:34 jnthn ah, ok
20:34 sivoais_ joined #perl6
20:34 jnthn Let me know when you're done and I can update the ecosystem list again.
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20:57 TimToady I think there's a bug in r2s for values that round up .9999 and such; it won't carry back to the integer part
20:59 shinobicl joined #perl6
20:59 shinobicl ahh... another thing..... i'm using "Date" as the namespace for WorkdayCalendar
20:59 shinobicl should i use this namespace or "DateTime" instead?
21:00 shinobicl i ask because there is a module listed as DateTime::Utils
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21:02 moritz if you work with dates, Date. If you work with dates and times, DateTime
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21:02 TimToady well, maybe it's a "can't happen"
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21:05 TimToady I can't come up with a case that forces it to carry back to the integer part
21:07 sergot_ 'night o/
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21:08 dalek tablets: fab2926 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/_nav- (2 files):
21:08 dalek tablets: repair spacing in header and footer
21:08 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/fab2926821
21:11 drschumtzenberg joined #perl6
21:11 spider-mario in case you’re interested and you understand french, I’ve had a little discussion regarding the readability of a Perl 6 code vs. its Common Lisp equivalent
21:11 spider-mario http://progmod.org/forum/sujet/333/message/3949/
21:11 spider-mario (the Lisper is Zeta)
21:13 [Coke] huh chrome offers to translate, says it has, but it's allf rench to me.
21:14 dalek joined #perl6
21:15 * TimToady wonders if dalek will report the spec change I just pushed for Rat.Str
21:15 kranius_ joined #perl6
21:15 [Coke] TimToady++ # there you go
21:16 TimToady oh, I don't care about the karma, I just wanted people to see it :)
21:16 exodist_ joined #perl6
21:16 colomon TimToady: just got a notification for it in my e-mail.  :)
21:16 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
21:17 colomon TimToady: why did you change it there and not in S02?
21:20 TimToady lazy :)
21:24 drschumtzenberg_ joined #perl6
21:25 colomon BTW, S02 also seems to say that every number with a decimal point should either become a Rat or a RatStr.  Does that seem likely to stay to you?
21:25 drschumtzenberg joined #perl6
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21:32 dalek specs: e1cc4fa | larry++ | S02-bits.pod:
21:32 dalek specs: also tweak Rat.Str description here for colomon++
21:32 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/e1cc4fa93f
21:32 TimToady where does it say that?
21:32 colomon TimToady: search for "Allomorphic Rats"
21:32 lichtkind TimToady: grrrreetings
21:32 lichtkind what is actuall U ?
21:32 lichtkind some sort of undefined?
21:33 TimToady I do still think that .perl should try for decimal notation if it works.
21:33 colomon TimToady: agreed.
21:33 TimToady it means it's not a real object
21:33 colomon TimToady: if it is exact
21:33 jnthn lichtkind: As in, Any:U style things?
21:33 jnthn lichtkind: It means it's a type object.
21:34 jnthn Equivalent to checking that .DEFINITE is False
21:34 colomon TimToady: should Rat.perl be one of either N.M or <N/M> ?
21:35 TimToady yeah
21:35 lichtkind jnthn: i dunno i just saw moritz to use the U method
21:35 TimToady yes, only if it's exact do you get N.M
21:35 lichtkind so its true if its a type object?
21:36 jnthn lichtkind: Method? Oh...then I dunno :)
21:36 lichtkind jnthn: what is this Any:Uß
21:38 jnthn lichtkind: It's a type modifier.
21:38 jnthn r: class A { }; sub foo(A) { say "ok" }; foo(A.new); foo(A);
21:38 p6eval rakudo 9a4981: OUTPUT«ok␤ok␤»
21:38 TimToady colomon: it doesn't say 'any number with a decimal', it says 'any rational literal'
21:38 jnthn r: class A { }; sub foo(A:U) { say "ok" }; foo(A.new); foo(A);
21:38 p6eval rakudo 9a4981: OUTPUT«Parameter '' requires a type object, but an object instance was passed␤  in sub foo at /tmp/V5K06_21PO:1␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/V5K06_21PO:1␤␤»
21:38 jnthn r: class A { }; sub foo(A:D) { say "ok" }; foo(A.new); foo(A);
21:38 p6eval rakudo 9a4981: OUTPUT«ok␤Parameter '' requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in sub foo at /tmp/lXw6kMrJui:1␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/lXw6kMrJui:1␤␤»
21:39 TimToady but it does seem that pi.perl should probably print 3.141592653589793238 rather than the fractional form
21:39 sftp joined #perl6
21:39 TimToady or maybe it should return the .Str form
21:39 jnthn Uh...pi should be a Num, no?
21:39 colomon jnthn: that's what I'm asking.
21:39 jnthn rakudo: say pi.Num
21:39 p6eval rakudo 9a4981: OUTPUT«3.14159265394248␤»
21:39 jnthn grr
21:39 jnthn rakudo: say pi.WHAT
21:39 p6eval rakudo 9a4981: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
21:40 colomon I think TimToady has a real good case for making it a RatStr
21:40 derrazo joined #perl6
21:40 TimToady constant pi is export = 3.14159_26535_89793_23846_26433_83279_50288;
21:40 jnthn Having an irrational number being a Rat is irrational!
21:40 TimToady I see no 'e' there...
21:40 derrazo left #perl6
21:40 jnthn my constant pi = 3.14159_26535_89793_238e0;
21:40 jnthn From Rakudo.
21:40 colomon TimToady: pi.perl should totally return the .Str form
21:41 jnthn pi.perl should probably do whatever $any-other-num.perl would do  ;)
21:41 TimToady jnthn: well, that's not according to spec, then
21:42 jnthn TimToady: Then I think the spec is being silly.
21:42 lichtkind is pi officially part of prelude?
21:43 TimToady yes, and so are e and i
21:45 TimToady it's fine by me if a RatStr also provides a pre-converted .Num value
21:45 sisar joined #perl6
21:45 * TimToady likes allomorphic literals
21:45 jnthn Is RatStr still multiple inheritnace?
21:46 jnthn ah, just found the bit in S02. Yes.
21:46 TimToady last I heard
21:48 * jnthn remains unfond of ending up with MI being used in CORE.setting
21:48 jnthn (It's not that it's a problem in any technical sense. I just...find MI uncomfortable.)
21:49 jnthn (As does 6model, which takes "this is MI" to mean "skip these nice optimizations"...)
21:49 masak something about this http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2012-05-09#i_5563296
21:49 masak made me write this https://gist.github.com/2649172
21:49 masak I don't know what you think. sometimes I just like stories. :)
21:53 TimToady putting on my lit crit hat, the ending seems a bit abrupt...
21:53 au that reads like the first half of a story...
21:54 TimToady why do I feel like that poor guy in Star Wars saying "Almost there...Almost there..."
21:54 masak I'm sorry, I don't know the ending to this one.
21:55 TimToady we need some young, over-confident whippersnapper to nail the heat exhaust port...
21:55 au it may worth noting that both p5 and p6 now both meets and exceeds the scope of the initial apocalypse/exegesis vision, although I'm not exactly sure how to work that into the narrative. :)
21:55 diakopter Stay on target ...
21:56 TimToady well, I'm sure I can find some bits that P5 has ignored...
21:56 masak au: I think that's all part of the tuning fork narrative. Perl split into 5 and 6, providing everything from redundancy to heterogeneity.
21:57 TimToady 'course, there are some bits that P6 has ignored too...  :)
21:57 au :)
21:57 ggoebel joined #perl6
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21:59 * TimToady had an interesting mental sideslip the other day, when he thought "tuning fork" and said "pitch fork" instead
21:59 TimToady which...almost works...
21:59 masak :D
22:00 diakopter pitch ;pipe
22:00 masak a pitch fork has more than two branches, right? we need more Perls.
22:00 masak MOAR
22:00 masak actually, I wish someone would develop more successful Perls.
22:00 diakopter peace pipe
22:01 masak but maybe there's not niches enough for more than Perl 5 and Perl 6?
22:01 TimToady well, there are other attempts to revise Perl 5 out there
22:01 TimToady hopefully they'll turn out to be better designed and less successful than PHP :D
22:02 orphu joined #perl6
22:02 TimToady s/and/or/
22:02 masak there are parts about perl5i that reach halfway to Perl 6 and then stop.
22:03 masak like, they have a Str.reverse
22:03 masak that's about what you'd get if you stopped being inspired by Perl 6 about 2008, I guess :)
22:04 masak hm, seems .flip was born in 2009.
22:12 Chillance joined #perl6
22:15 jnthn 'night #perl6
22:15 diakopter /
22:15 masak 'night, #perl6
22:15 spider-mario good night
22:15 tadzik /
22:15 spider-mario ffffuuu-
22:15 spider-mario I broke it :(
22:16 tadzik happens to the best of us
22:16 masak tell me about it.
22:16 tadzik a sleepy-tale? Or how do you call it
22:17 dalek tablets: a5200d9 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix- (2 files):
22:17 dalek tablets: adding constants e i pi
22:17 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/a5200d9888
22:17 huf bedtime story?
22:18 tadzik oh, yes
22:19 huf i had to swap for a bit to find the phrase
22:19 tadzik lichtkind: http://tablets.perl6.org/appendi​x-e-exciting.html#case-construct shouldn't "when 'g'" be "when /g/"?
22:20 tadzik also, the top-left if seems to have some trailing }}
22:20 lichtkind tadzik: depends if eq is nuff 'g' works too
22:20 tadzik lichtkind: but the Perl 5 version uses =~ /g/
22:20 tadzik so that's more like when /g/ than when 'g'
22:21 lichtkind right
22:21 lichtkind the braces are added in translation
22:21 lichtkind i fix that
22:21 tadzik http://tablets.perl6.org/appendix-e​-exciting.html#objects-with-auto-ge​nerated-new-and-getters-and-setters
22:22 tadzik that one probably wants has $.speed is rw;
22:22 tadzik otherwise "$hg1.speed = 100;" is illegal
22:23 dalek tablets: f337812 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-e-exciting.txt:
22:23 dalek tablets: fix case construct, tadzik++
22:23 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/f337812b19
22:24 lichtkind yes
22:24 tadzik lichtkind++
22:24 dalek tablets: ca4edcb | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-e-exciting.txt:
22:24 dalek tablets: attr should be "is rw" tadzik++
22:24 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/ca4edcb3c6
22:25 tadzik oh, did you see the "Wrath of the Lichtking" I, khem, drawed? :P
22:25 lichtkind my brother is a wow veteran all these jokes are long made :)
22:25 lichtkind by myself :)
22:25 tadzik http://i.imgur.com/V7z2j.jpg
22:26 lichtkind hahha
22:26 tadzik heh, should've suspected that
22:26 lichtkind i keep that
22:28 tadzik it's time for me too. Good knight #eplr6
22:28 tadzik Some men, when in need to write something, think "I know, I'll use two hands!". Then they have #eplr6
22:29 huf :)
22:32 noam_ joined #perl6
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22:43 lichtkind haha
22:43 lichtkind good night tadzik
22:47 sisar joined #perl6
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23:29 sorear good * #perl6
23:29 domidumont joined #perl6
23:36 [Coke] "I know, I'll use a J2EE container to house this app." Now I have ... well, more than 2 problems, anyway.
23:41 whiteknight joined #perl6
23:51 sorear Best Perl 5 error message:  (Do you need to predeclare my?)

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