Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-06-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 rjbs yum, pho.
00:24 tokuhirom joined #perl6
00:27 larks joined #perl6
00:27 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
00:28 larks joined #perl6
00:29 Juerd joined #perl6
00:29 p6eval joined #perl6
00:30 masak joined #perl6
00:30 Util joined #perl6
00:30 daemon joined #perl6
00:33 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
00:34 daemon joined #perl6
00:38 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
00:47 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
00:51 leprevost joined #perl6
00:55 AndChat- joined #perl6
00:58 mcglk joined #perl6
00:58 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:14 scott_ joined #perl6
01:17 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:20 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:22 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:23 quietfanatic One thing I miss in Perl6 that there was in C is the ability to chain statement control forms.
01:23 quietfanatic if (...) \n for (...) \n if (...) \n { ... }
01:24 quietfanatic without requiring a {} for each line and inducing indentation creep.
01:24 quietfanatic I wonder if the Perl 6 grammar could be flexed to support it (without parentheses)
01:26 quietfanatic I know chained ifs can be done with 'and', but fors and such would benefit from this.
01:27 quietfanatic (er, take out the final \n before the {)
01:33 geekosaur they're a frequent source of unexpected behavior in C, actually, and are widely regarded as a misfeature as a result
01:36 quietfanatic The only unexpected behavior I can imagine is an ambiguously-matched else.
01:37 quietfanatic And as long as the final set of { } is required you won't accidentally drop statements out of the block.
01:38 dalek niecza/non-bootstrap: e80e1fe | sorear++ | lib/ (4 files):
01:38 dalek niecza/non-bootstrap: Actions pt 16
01:38 dalek niecza/non-bootstrap: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e80e1fe7df
01:39 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:40 quietfanatic I suppose you can chain them in statement postfix form, but that makes the program flow backwards.
01:49 quietfanatic std: 3 if 5 for 0..10 if 1
01:49 p6eval std 30385f8: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $x in pattern match (m//) at STD.pm line 66584.␤Use of uninitialized value $x in concatenation (.) or string at STD.pm line 66623.␤Use of uninitialized value $x in pattern match (m//) at STD.pm line 66584.␤Use of uninitialized value $x in c…
01:49 quietfanatic I take it back, you can't arbitrarily chain statement postfixes.
01:49 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:49 quietfanatic Not only that, it makes std wig out.
01:50 huf joined #perl6
01:54 jaldhar joined #perl6
01:54 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
01:58 _jaldhar joined #perl6
02:03 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
02:10 _jaldhar joined #perl6
02:15 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
02:16 tokuhirom joined #perl6
02:17 mberends joined #perl6
02:18 cooper joined #perl6
02:19 TimToady even though C lets you omit those braces, a lot of people would consider it bad form in terms of communicating intent to the reader
02:19 adu joined #perl6
02:21 huf joined #perl6
02:27 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
02:32 orafu joined #perl6
02:35 quietfanatic I do not find it unclear at all, but I guess I am not a lot of people.
02:35 quietfanatic Strange people.
02:40 sudokode joined #perl6
02:40 AndChat- joined #perl6
02:43 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
03:00 AndChat- joined #perl6
03:13 mucker TimToady: I was wondering. In english, a plural is formed by taking a word and adding a *suffix* 's' to it. In perl, wouldn't it be more linguitical to have foo$ and foo@ ?? Also is there a language that uses a prefix to indicate a plural ?
03:14 mucker *linguistical
03:16 quietfanatic It would be more Englishtical, sure
03:17 quietfanatic I don't know about linguistical.
03:18 adu joined #perl6
03:23 TimToady well, Navi has a plural prefix... :)
03:23 TimToady apparently proto-IE had one too
03:23 TimToady which might or might not be related to the re- we were discussing earlier
03:24 TimToady I'm sure there are others, but such info is difficult to google for
03:25 TimToady as for putting the sigil last, BASIC/PLUS had foo$ for strings and foo% for integers
03:25 TimToady but that doesn't help with interpolation
03:28 TimToady Athabaskan languages
03:29 TimToady Swahili, apparently
03:31 TimToady Bantu as well
03:32 mucker nice to know :)
03:32 mucker How would suffix sigil be problematic for interpolation ?
03:34 TimToady Etung in Nigeria, so perhaps most African languages work this way
03:34 libertyprime joined #perl6
03:34 TimToady mucker: you'd have to backtrack after finding the $
03:35 mucker Ah, ok
03:35 mucker good idea for a Acme, source filter though :P
03:37 TimToady apparently a lot of Pacific Indian languages work this way too
03:38 TimToady interesting question though
03:38 TimToady mucker++
03:44 sisar joined #perl6
03:54 alester joined #perl6
03:54 alester Is there some magic that nqp needs to know about Parrot?
03:54 [Coke] alester: ?
03:54 alester uniqua:~/nqp :( $ perl Configure.pl
03:54 alester error:imcc:No such file or directory
03:54 alester in file 'parrot-config.pir' line 1
03:55 alester Do I need to do some other Parrot install other than "sudo make install"
03:55 [Coke] you might have an old parrot installed. perhaps use --gen-parrot to build a local copy?
03:55 alester I just installed it now
03:55 alester --gen-parrot on Configure.pl?
03:55 [Coke] (when I work on rakudo, I tend to use its --gen-parrot option, and have it build a fresh copy of nqp (which builds a fresh copy of parrot) all local to rakudo.
03:55 thou joined #perl6
03:56 alester so I don't need to bother installing Parrot to /usr/local?
03:56 [Coke] if you installed a recent parrot, then the recent nqp should work, assuming it's in your path.
03:56 [Coke] I don't think most devs do, no.
03:56 [Coke] it gets installed, but into .../rakudo/install
03:57 [Coke] and --gen-parrot does all the git work (if any) for you.
03:58 alester well, I DID just install to /usr/local
03:58 alester /usr/local/include/parrot etc
04:01 alester but I get the same results when I tried --with-parrot=/usr/local/bin/parrot
04:03 alester ah, I see what it did.  OK, I guess I'll delete my big installed one
04:05 kurahaupo joined #perl6
04:05 alester holy cow, the compiler errors in nqp.
04:05 alester My work here is clear.
04:14 alester oh poo, they're in 3rd-party files.  I'll to do some makefile stuff.
04:15 sorear compiler ... errors?
04:15 alester well, warnings
04:36 [Coke] alester is stricter than your average bear.
04:37 * [Coke] realizes it's tomorrow, and thinks that if he's going to stock cans of soda and drink them at 8pm, they shouldn't be red bull clones.
04:46 adu [Coke]: heh
04:51 timotimo hm, somehow i find the syntax from ruby (and probably other places, too) where you append ? to a method name if it's supposed to test for some property, cute
04:51 timotimo std: sub is-foo?($a) { $a < 5 }
04:51 p6eval std 30385f8: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Malformed block at /tmp/CTQ14AUcdE line 1:â�¤------> [32msub is-foo[33mâ��[31m?($a) { $a < 5 }[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤     new name to be definedâ�¤ routine_defâ�¤    traitâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 40mâ�¤Â»
04:52 timotimo std: sub is-foo⁈($a) { $a < 5 }
04:52 p6eval std 30385f8: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Malformed block at /tmp/9B3C7nnC05 line 1:â�¤------> [32msub is-foo[33mâ��[31mâ�ˆ($a) { $a < 5 }[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤     new name to be definedâ�¤ routine_defâ�¤    traitâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 40mâ�¤Â»
04:53 sorear timotimo: I believe that first appeared in LISP, spelled ATOMP; the atom? form may have originated with Scheme
04:53 sorear the P is for predicate
04:53 timotimo neither ? nor ¿ nor ⁈ work in function names :(
04:54 * timotimo afks his way to uni
04:59 benabik .u
04:59 phenny benabik: You gave me zero length input.
04:59 benabik .u ⁈
04:59 phenny U+2048 QUESTION EXCLAMATION MARK (⁈)
05:08 GlitchMr joined #perl6
05:11 geekosaur smalltalk also uses the foo? form (and is where ruby picked it up from)
05:11 * moritz waits for the !!!!11! Unicode character
05:14 adu hi moritz
05:17 moritz \o adu
05:17 fhelmberger joined #perl6
05:17 adu what was that testing thing?
05:17 adu the whole ok function thing
05:19 adu TAP found it
05:26 sisar (re appending ? to methods) its a nice idea to differentiate methods.
05:27 sisar r: my $v = 'abc'; $v.uc; say $v;
05:27 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«abc␤»
05:27 sisar hmm, which methods modify a variable permanently ?
05:28 moritz r: my $v = 'abc'; $v.=uc; say $v
05:28 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«ABC␤»
05:28 sisar well, other than the "=uc" stlye methods :)
05:30 sisar ok we have push, pop, etc.
05:30 sisar nm.
05:30 sisar was a very vague question...
05:33 sorear $-vars and @-vars are different in kind.  if you want to truly understand Perl 6, you need to accept this.
05:33 adu r: say * ~~ ::Whatever
05:33 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«True␤»
05:33 adu huh
05:33 sorear $-vars can be modified by any method
05:33 sorear n: my class Foo { method bar($self is rw:) { $self = 10 } }: my $x = Foo.new; $x.bar; say $x;
05:33 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Illegal use of colon as invocant marker at /tmp/tbLLps6pLH line 1:â�¤------> [32mthod bar($self is rw:) { $self = 10 } }:[33mâ��[31m my $x = Foo.new; $x.bar; say $x;[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/ni…
05:34 sorear n: my class Foo { method bar($self is rw:) { $self = 10 } }; my $x = Foo.new; $x.bar; say $x;
05:34 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«10␤»
05:35 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
05:35 sorear method calls are just sub calls under the hood, and like any sub they can have rw parameters.
05:36 sisar sorear: I need to accept that I can never know if a method has a rw under the hood ?
05:37 sorear yes.
05:37 sorear fortunately, that's only for $-vars.
05:37 sisar but I guess Perl 6 has good defaults in this case
05:38 sisar sorear: aye, fortunately :)
05:38 sorear @-vars can never be modified; they are fixed to refer to a specific Positional object at binding time
05:38 sorear .push is a completely ordinary method; its invocant is typically an Array object, which has mutable state
05:42 sorear n: say (-> $foo { }).signature
05:42 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/07xUuUoP10 line 1:â�¤------> [32msay (-> [33mâ��[31m$foo { }).signature[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding '' in 'ClassHOW.name'; got Mu, needed Anyâ�¤  at /home/p6eval…
05:42 sorear n: say (-> $foo { 2 }).signature
05:42 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/Pdgv1s9jGF line 1:â�¤------> [32msay (-> [33mâ��[31m$foo { 2 }).signature[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding '' in 'ClassHOW.name'; got Mu, needed Anyâ�¤  at /home/p6ev…
05:42 sorear n: say (-> $foo { 2 }).signature.perl
05:42 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/JUrNINy1xl line 1:â�¤------> [32msay (-> [33mâ��[31m$foo { 2 }).signature.perl[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding '' in 'ClassHOW.name'; got Mu, needed Anyâ�¤  at /home…
05:42 sorear n: say (-> $foo { 2 }).signature.perl #OK
05:43 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding '' in 'ClassHOW.name'; got Mu, needed Any␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (ClassHOW.name @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1107 (Parameter.perl @ 9) ␤  at /home/p6…
05:43 sorear n: say (-> Int $foo { 2 }).signature.perl #OK
05:43 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«:(Int $foo)␤»
05:43 sorear n: say (<-> Int $foo { 2 }).signature.perl #OK
05:43 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«:(Int $foo is rw)␤»
05:43 spaceships joined #perl6
05:43 sisar o/ spaceships !
05:50 spaceships howdy :)
05:53 kaleem joined #perl6
06:05 dalek niecza/non-bootstrap: dda9f42 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
06:05 dalek niecza/non-bootstrap: Actions pt 17 (last!)
06:05 dalek niecza/non-bootstrap: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dda9f4261d
06:08 tadzik good morning zebras
06:09 sisar sorear: congrats on finishing Actions !!
06:10 Psyche^ joined #perl6
06:11 sorear heh.
06:12 sorear 'phase 1 is complete'
06:13 sorear I have a lot of loose ends to tie up, and a bootstrap parser to write, before it can even try to run tests
06:13 wtw joined #perl6
06:18 sisar sorear++
06:20 xinming joined #perl6
06:24 sudokode joined #perl6
06:32 adu joined #perl6
07:08 brrt joined #perl6
07:14 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
07:20 kresike joined #perl6
07:20 kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people
07:21 sorear good morning kresike.
07:22 kresike hello sorear
07:24 brrt sorear: no offense but when do you sleep? :-o
07:25 sorear brrt: in about 2 hours, +/- 1
07:25 brrt I am in awe
07:26 sorear no, I mean I start 2 hours from now
07:26 sorear I will be getting up about 10 hours from now
07:26 brrt still that is short
07:27 sorear 8 hours is pretty normal for a US young adult
07:27 brrt hmm, i guess
07:27 sorear my parents make do on significantly less
07:29 moritz sleep length varies greatly
07:30 moritz I can make do with 8h a day during the week, but then I need a bit more on weekends
07:31 bonsaikitten I oscillate between ~6 and ~12h a day, with an average near 8h
07:31 sorear o/ moritz
07:33 dalek nqp: b5930e1 | moritz++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
07:33 dalek nqp: bump parrot version to 4.5 release
07:33 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b5930e183d
07:34 AndChat- joined #perl6
07:37 araujo joined #perl6
07:37 araujo joined #perl6
07:44 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
07:45 drbean joined #perl6
07:58 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
08:04 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:04 tadzik hello jnthn
08:05 moritz \o jnthn
08:05 moritz tadzik o/
08:10 SHODAN joined #perl6
08:11 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
08:11 sorear o/ jnthn
08:12 * jnthn at $onsite-dayjob today, so won't have tuits until the evening
08:12 jnthn I do at least write a little Perl 6 at this $dayjob at the moment though :0
08:12 jnthn *:)
08:16 moritz yay
08:18 drbean joined #perl6
08:19 tadzik wow
08:23 AndChat| joined #perl6
08:35 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
08:39 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
08:41 BaggioKwok joined #perl6
08:44 AndChat| joined #perl6
08:53 telex joined #perl6
09:24 vmspb joined #perl6
09:38 sisar joined #perl6
10:00 grondilu joined #perl6
10:14 flussence whoa, how long has <-> { } been there?
10:14 moritz flussence: quite a while :-)
10:15 flussence I need to keep up with these things more often :)
10:15 jerome_ joined #perl6
10:17 moritz at least since 2008
10:22 [particle] joined #perl6
10:37 daxim joined #perl6
10:47 skids joined #perl6
10:55 fgomez joined #perl6
10:56 noam joined #perl6
11:20 tokuhirom joined #perl6
11:33 snearch joined #perl6
11:33 VXZ joined #perl6
11:47 mtk joined #perl6
11:52 brrt joined #perl6
11:56 brrt joined #perl6
12:01 vmspb left #perl6
12:16 jaldhar joined #perl6
12:20 mzgcz joined #perl6
12:25 naveen_ joined #perl6
12:39 simcop2387 joined #perl6
12:44 mzgcz left #perl6
12:57 PacoAir joined #perl6
13:07 [Coke] 4611 tjs       20   0 1874m 978m 1180 D   0.3 83.3   0:54.42 weechat-curses
13:07 [Coke] 83.3% of memory on weechat client.
13:07 [Coke] holding pretty steady.
13:08 [Coke] I think that might be tadzik.
13:09 Psyche^ joined #perl6
13:15 pmichaud yes, feather is really slow for me atm
13:17 [Coke] I don't have sudo.
13:17 [Coke] it's still eating up memory, probably need to kill it.
13:18 [Coke] s/eating up/holding on to/
13:18 * moritz logs in, and causes even less memory to be available
13:18 pmichaud feather load is 14.16 :-/
13:19 moritz killed.
13:19 pmichaud oh wait, down to 7.47 now :)
13:19 [Coke] moritz: do you have privs to kill that?
13:19 pmichaud moritz++
13:19 [Coke] ah, thanks.
13:19 [Coke] weird, it's still alive.
13:20 * moritz sends it a deadly SIGKILL
13:20 Vlavv_ joined #perl6
13:20 [Coke] all sorts of gone now. thanks.
13:20 tadzik joined #perl6
13:21 moritz phenny: tell tadzik sorry, but I had to kill your weechat instance on feature, it used up 1.8G of RAM and swapped
13:21 phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
13:21 moritz phenny: tell tadzik *feather
13:21 phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
13:21 tadzik moritz: huh, that sounds weird
13:21 phenny tadzik: 13:21Z <moritz> tell tadzik sorry, but I had to kill your weechat instance on feature, it used up 1.8G of RAM and swapped
13:21 phenny tadzik: 13:21Z <moritz> tell tadzik *feather
13:21 moritz tadzik: aye
13:21 tadzik it appeared unreachable for the last couple of minutes, indeed
13:22 * moritz checks if there's a security update for weechat available on debian
13:23 rafl joined #perl6
13:23 moritz weechat (0.3.7-1 => 0.3.8-1)
13:23 tadzik may help
13:23 moritz done.
13:24 tadzik I'll restart it then
13:24 tadzik joined #perl6
13:24 moritz if you want to be safe, do an ulimit first
13:24 tadzik I hope that won't happen again
13:26 moritz pmichaud: I've received an email from somebody who found dead links on rakudo.org, and couldn't find any webmaster email address to notify
13:27 moritz pmichaud: I've fixed those links, but we should do something about the missing webmaster email address
13:27 pmichaud moritz: where would a webmaster email address normally go?
13:27 pmichaud we can certainly put my address there
13:28 moritz pmichaud: well, we could use your email address, or create a new mailing list, or tell them to write to p6c
13:28 pmichaud p6c requires registration, or at least moderation.
13:28 moritz I wonder if we should make a general p6w list for perl 6 related websites
13:29 moritz like perl6.org, rakudo.org, modules.perl6.org etc.
13:29 pmichaud what's the contact address for perl6.org, ooc?
13:29 moritz or if we should use one of the existing addresses
13:29 moritz #perl6
13:29 moritz I might have added mine somewhere too
13:29 pmichaud yours is there, on the about page
13:29 frettled I think a group address or similar would be nice.  Personal addresses are way too failure prone.
13:31 pmichaud I suspect we could get a something@perl.org address.  I'd have to check the DNS settings to know if something@rakudo.org can work.
13:31 * pmichaud checks
13:31 flussence I'd suggest having a webmaster@ address that forwards to a real person, there's some RFC somewhere that lists a few "standard" addresses like that one
13:32 moritz fwiw I'm going to upgrade screen on feather
13:32 flussence http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2142
13:32 moritz that might kill open screen sessions
13:33 moritz you can execute /tmp/screen-4.0.3 to connect to your old screen sessions
13:34 adu joined #perl6
13:37 pmichaud okay, looks like username@rakudo.org emails successfully make it to the server, so I can at least set up webmaster@rakudo.org or admin@rakudo.org forwarding addresses
13:40 sisar doesn't wordpress have a plugn or something for this kinda thing ?
13:42 tyatpi joined #perl6
13:42 leprevost joined #perl6
13:43 pmichaud sisar: oh, probably, yes, but I'm not sure where to look for it.  And besides, contact email address is pretty standard for our likely audience.
13:44 sisar pmichaud: ok. I can look for a suitable plugin if you want...
13:52 anant joined #perl6
13:53 pmichaud moritz: http://rakudo.org/about/
13:53 moritz pmichaud: great
13:53 pmichaud webmaster@rakudo.org currently forwards to my address; I can forward to anyone else that wants to receive them
13:53 moritz please add my email address too
13:54 moritz moritz@faui2k3.org
13:54 sisar pmichaud, moritz : i just found this: http://en.support.wordpress.com/contact-form/
13:55 [Coke] you can add me too for the webmaster stuff.
13:55 [Coke] moritz: did the screen upgrade happen?
13:55 pmichaud oh, hmmm, my forwarder doesn't like multiple email addresses
13:56 pmichaud I kind of like moritz++'s idea of having a mailing list for infrastructure-things
13:56 sisar the contact from looks perfect, but well, pmichaud++ has already set up an email.
13:56 sisar *form
13:57 pmichaud not sure it should be perl6-web[master]? though.... as we might want admin things not directly web related
13:57 timotimo yapc recordings where the camera never ever shows the slides make me very sad
13:58 sisar pmichaud: may I setup a contact form page, and if u like it we can keep it.
13:58 moritz perl6-infra ?
13:58 [Coke] pmichaud: I can setup a redirect alias at coleda.com ;)
13:58 pmichaud yeah, perl6-infra maybe.  we might have some github notifications going to that address too
13:58 pmichaud [Coke]: oh, I can definitely get something at rakudo.org that will work
13:59 [Coke] hokay.
14:01 sisar there are 31 pending comments on rakudo.org, most of which are spam. May I clean that up ?
14:01 pmichaud sisar: spam cleanup +1
14:01 * sisar is on it
14:01 pmichaud sisar: if you want to create a page with a contact form, we can look at that also
14:02 moritz and maybe add a link to that to the footer, or so
14:02 pmichaud moritz: how about infrastructure@rakudo.org for the mailing list?
14:02 sisar pmichaud: i'll make it later tonight.
14:02 pmichaud seems long
14:02 moritz pmichaud: well, if it's @rakudo.org, it won't be attractive for non-rakudo stuff (modules.perl6.org etc.)
14:03 pmichaud moritz: sure, but I don't control the other domains :-/
14:03 moritz pmichaud: well, we can always ask the perl.org guys for a mailing list
14:03 pmichaud could be noc@...
14:04 pmichaud perl6-noc@...  :-)
14:04 moritz noc?
14:04 pmichaud "network operations center", canonically
14:04 daxim hand in your computer geek card.
14:04 moritz nervous operating center :-)
14:04 daxim http://noc.perl.org/
14:05 moritz anyway, perl6-noc or perl6-infra would both be fine by me
14:06 tadzik sjn: ping
14:07 sjn pong
14:07 sjn tadzik: what's up? :)
14:07 tadzik sjn: when are the Oslo.pm meetings?
14:07 pmichaud I'll see if I can get perl6-noc@perl.org mailing list set up.
14:08 sjn tadzik: first wednesday every month
14:08 alester joined #perl6
14:08 * sjn has tadzik's papers at home, but hasn't had time to refund the monies yet :-/
14:08 tadzik oh, I'm glad they got there, was just to ask about this
14:09 sjn yeah, apologies for the delay
14:09 thou joined #perl6
14:09 tadzik no problem, I'm the bottleneck of the delays anyway :)
14:09 sjn I'll get to it soon (I need some refunding myself too, so I'll do it at the same time)
14:10 sjn btw, I haven't recieved anything from Filip, I think
14:10 tadzik anyway, there's a chance that me and zby will stumble upon your meeting while visiting the office in July
14:10 sjn tadzik: ooh, cool! :)
14:10 sjn tadzik: bring some of your colleagues :)
14:10 tadzik sjn: yeah, me and zby is the entire Warsaw team :P
14:10 sjn heheeh
14:11 sjn let's call you "Warsaw.pm" :)
14:11 * sjn was actually thinking about the others at the Oslo office ;(
14:11 tadzik the original plan was to be there from thursday up, but we'll see what we can do
14:11 sjn ;)
14:11 tadzik I can poke some of those guys too
14:11 sjn great :)
14:12 sjn btw, if you bump into sergot, would you mind reminding him about sending his receipts and tickets and stuff?
14:12 tadzik sure thing
14:13 * sjn is pretty sure he hasn't received any
14:13 tadzik seen sergot?
14:13 tadzik phenny: seen sergot?
14:13 tadzik aloha: seen sergot?
14:13 tadzik no luck for me
14:13 sjn :-/
14:14 sjn the bots are asleep
14:14 pmichaud ENOALOHA
14:16 pmichaud moritz: I'm cc'ing you on the perl.org request.
14:16 pmichaud [Coke]: do you want to be included on the setup discussion, or just a member of the list once it's created?
14:16 xinming joined #perl6
14:18 timotimo xprop
14:19 flussence +
14:20 moritz phenny: tell sergot < sjn> btw, if you bump into sergot, would you mind reminding him about sending his receipts and tickets and stuff?
14:20 phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when sergot is around.
14:20 sjn yay! :)
14:21 * sjn forgets how to use the bots, despite having seen masak's presentation about them a few years ago in Oslo :)
14:22 moritz you forget stuff you heard just a few years ago? :-)
14:23 sjn no, I forget stuff constantly, and this has been going on for several years :)
14:23 pmichaud moritz: do we want a mailing list on perl.org, or just a forwarding address to a mailing list somewhere else (e.g., google groups or something)?
14:23 moritz pmichaud: I'm fine with a perl.org mailing list
14:23 pmichaud okay, I'll go for that.
14:24 pmichaud sending.
14:24 moritz pmichaud++
14:25 [Coke] for perl.org stuff? cc'ing me may help, as I was the liason with perl.org stuff when parrot was there. Iunno.
14:25 [Coke] (sure)
14:25 pmichaud darn, just sent it
14:25 [Coke] n oworries.
14:25 pmichaud coke: I'll copy you in on any discussions that occur, if any
14:25 pmichaud I suspect it'll be straightforward :)
14:26 kresike bye all
14:28 timotimo is it my fault or does pmichauds talk about lists have only blackness on the video stream here and there?
14:28 moritz timotimo: I get the blackouts too
14:30 pmichaud the blackouts are in the video itself
14:30 timotimo OK
14:30 pmichaud I don't know if the official videos will have the same issue; I know that they were there as part of the livestream when it occurred
14:31 pmichaud (and the videos on youtube are just captures of the livestream)
14:33 timotimo all right, gives me hope :)
14:34 tokuhirom joined #perl6
14:38 timotimo wow, this is incredibly frustrating. some evil person must have intentionally analysed the stream for where it would be most inconvenient for the video to go black
14:38 rjbs heh
14:39 timotimo "good question! *opens vim*, so if i have a situation like this <start blackness> <long explanation> *closes vim* <end blackness>"
14:39 tadzik yeah
14:39 pmichaud I suspect I could re-figure out what happened in the vim part :)
14:39 timotimo aha! there's the vim again!
14:41 moritz the vim will always be with you
14:43 fgomez joined #perl6
14:50 timotimo i'm a big fan of the "no worries" pragma block
14:52 rjbs sounds great, what does it do?
14:52 sisar pmichaud: "WordPress 3.4 is available! Please notify the site administrator." maybe you'd like to upgrade ?
14:53 pmichaud sisar: yes, I'll upgrade it later.
14:53 sisar pmichaud++
14:53 moritz rjbs: pmichaud used it in his talk to indicate stuff that the audience doesn't have to understand
14:53 pmichaud rjbs:  "no worries" identified a segment of my talk.... what moritz++ said :)
14:53 * rjbs looks forward to watching some youtube videos!
14:54 * moritz too
14:54 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/2012/pres/ya​pcna-lists-2/slides/slide9.html
14:54 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/2012/pres/ya​pcna-lists-2/slides/slide15.html
14:55 moritz fwiw I've started a branch that tries to implement 'no strict;'
14:55 pmichaud moritz++
14:55 moritz I think I need to discuss it with jnthn++ a bit
14:56 sisar_ joined #perl6
14:58 sisar_ joined #perl6
14:59 harmil So, I'm not sure if TimToady misunderstood my question last night, or if rakudo is wrong...
14:59 harmil but here's what I've got:
14:59 sisar_ maybe someone can reply to this: http://rakudo.org/2012/05/23/rakudo-​star-2012-05-released/#comment-1665
14:59 harmil rn: given "abc" { when /(.<[b]>)|(<[a]>:<[b]>)/ { say "0={$0 // "Nothing"} 1={$1 // "Nothing"}" } }
14:59 p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized regex metacharacter : (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/2nnDDfXU47 line 1:â�¤------> [32mgiven "abc" { when /(.<[b]>)|(<[a]>:[33mâ��[31m<[b]>)/ { say "0={$0 // "Nothing"} 1={$1[0mâ�¤â�¤Unable to parse captu…
14:59 p6eval ..rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«0=ab 1=Nothing␤»
14:59 harmil ah, didn't know that n didn't do : yet
15:00 harmil anyway that 0th expression is always matched.
15:00 pmichaud ummmm
15:00 jnthn Was the "slow startup" comment actually based on a current/recent R* release?
15:00 harmil TimToady was suggesting that : didn't do that.
15:00 pmichaud those are both $0 captures
15:01 harmil oh heck, I forgot p6 did that!
15:01 harmil thanks, pmichaud++
15:02 moritz jnthn: good question
15:02 sisar jnthn: no idea. I'll ask the OP.
15:02 moritz startup is more like 0.4s or 0.5s here
15:04 [Coke] I suggest a memory starved box, but they he couldn't have built it.
15:05 timotimo if i derive from iterable and implement reify to return n times the element n, what would that look like? :)
15:05 moritz or maybe cold startup
15:07 sisar i've asked the OP about his/her Rakudo version (http://rakudo.org/2012/05/23/rakudo-​star-2012-05-released/#comment-1666)
15:08 moritz sisar++
15:09 jnthn A 50 line Perl 6 script run with rakudo++ helped me delete 350,000 lines of C# code today :)
15:10 moritz so, your summary is -349,950 lines :-)
15:10 sisar jnthn: wow !
15:10 moritz were they all handwritten?
15:10 colomon jnthn++
15:10 jnthn No
15:11 jnthn Generated, and the IDE kept getting the usage analysis wrong for no good reason :/
15:12 jnthn I've also got one analysing stored proc usage transitively, which has dredged up 900 in theory dead SPs. Need to analyze that bunch of stuff some more next time...
15:12 * jnthn is a Perl 6 armed janitor :)
15:12 jnthn Anyways, home time...and probably some 6-shaped tuits this evening :)
15:12 moritz \o/
15:12 sisar ok, so 0 pending comments for rakudo.org.
15:13 moritz sisar++
15:13 * colomon also used Perl 6 for $work this morning, but in a much less spectacular fashion
15:13 * [Coke] still has his mini log analyzer. nothing fancy.
15:14 * [Coke] needs to get that running locally so he doesn't have to ssh into feather to run it. ;)
15:14 sisar (the OP with the time issue actually commented on 2012/05/08 about wanting to try Rakudo, and then finally ran the helloperl.pl script today.)
15:22 TimToady harmil: also, : only does something if you backtrack, and there's nothing in your expression that backtracks
15:28 harmil So, right now, it seems that (I don't know if this is to spec) rakudo breaks ties in regexes based on which comes first.
15:29 harmil r: grammar G { rule TOP { <exp> | <aexp>: }; rule exp { \w+ }; rule aexp { 'a'\w* } }; say G.parse("abc").perl
15:29 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new("exp", Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), ))␤»
15:29 harmil for example, in that case, exp is matched, but if I reverse exp and aexp, then aexp is matched
15:30 harmil ignore the : I left that in because of my testing
15:31 harmil But I'm assuming that it's unsafe to rely on that behavior...
15:31 sisar pmichaud: The contact form feature is not available in the current WordPress version which we are running. After you upgrade it, i'll work on it.
15:32 harmil r: grammar G { rule TOP { <aexp> | <exp> }; rule exp { \w+ }; rule aexp { 'a'\w* } }; say G.parse("abc").perl
15:32 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new("aexp", Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), ))␤»
15:32 sisar pmichaud: just ping me when you've upgraded it.
15:33 cap joined #perl6
15:34 harmil Aha, no! The Overview section of S05 does say, "4) Within a given compilation unit, earlier declaration wins"
15:34 harmil hmmm… though that seems to be _not_ what rakudo is doing
15:34 harmil since I didn't change the order of declaration.
15:35 pmichaud harmil: in the example above, I think that aexp should always win based on literal prefix
15:35 pmichaud although might be off because of 'rule' and leading whitespace
15:36 pmichaud r: grammar G { token TOP { <exp> | <aexp> }; token exp { \w+ }; token aexp { 'a' \w* } };  say G.parse('abc').perl
15:36 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new("exp", Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), ))␤»
15:37 pmichaud I'm guessing 'aexp' should've won there.
15:40 sisar this line from http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ about the Rakudo's REPL seems wrong:
15:40 sisar "Each line entered is treated as a separate compilation unit, however (which means that subroutines are preserved after they are defined, but variables are not)."
15:40 harmil hmm… interesting.
15:41 sisar variables are not preserbed /
15:41 sisar ?
15:41 sisar *preserved ?
15:41 harmil pmichaud: for now, I think the answer is that I can't rely on the behavior, and that's good enough.
15:41 quietfanatic That's weird.  I'm pretty sure variables are and are supposed to be preserved
15:41 sisar quietfanatic: *nod*
15:42 sisar The sentence is broken anyways. Does WP keep a changelog of pages ?
15:43 pmichaud quietfanatic: that text might actually be from before when rakudo had working lexicals in the REPL
15:43 pmichaud (which would be from before rakudo.org was on WP :-)
15:44 sisar nah, WordPress does not (keep a changelog of page editing).
15:45 sisar (from the same paragraph) "If the Rakudo compiler is invoked without an explicit script to run, it enters a small interactive mode... " Whats so "small" about it ?
15:46 awwaiid joined #perl6
15:46 sisar awwaiid: o/
15:46 quietfanatic Er, becuse it doesn't display a big banner across your screen?
15:47 flussence compare it to haskell's repl, or python's
15:47 pmichaud I'm fine with eliminating "small" there :)
15:48 awwaiid I got a high five, sisar? thanks!
15:48 sisar awwaiid: :)
15:49 kaare_ joined #perl6
15:49 sisar pmichaud: the whole page needs a rewrite, a more recent version is the INSTALL.txt file in the rakudo repo. I'll steal text from that.
15:50 pmichaud sisar++  # good
15:54 sisar moritz: Why is a .txt suffix good/needed ? (https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​6e1cfd4bb80894d8dd529e32b9b906efb0dbf63d ) After all README, VERSION, etc don't have one.
15:57 moritz sisar: can't remember, that's nearly a year ago
15:58 sisar moritz: ok, not a big issue :-)
16:01 * sisar gets pendatic many times
16:01 daxim that's spelled "pedantic"!
16:01 sisar daxim: !! :-)
16:02 masak Muphry's law at work.
16:02 masak evening, meatbrains.
16:02 sisar masak: o/
16:02 brrt left #perl6
16:05 sisar the ICU4C library is not a must have for Rakudo, right ?
16:05 jnthn Not a hard requirement, no.
16:07 sisar are there any tests/spectests which will fail if there is no ICU ?
16:07 moritz yes, those that marked with #icu in t/spectest.data
16:08 sisar moritz: ok
16:08 jnthn (They only get run if you have ICU.)
16:08 sisar oh so it will skip 'em, right.
16:09 MayDaniel joined #perl6
16:15 masak right.
16:27 PerlJam joined #perl6
16:45 mtk joined #perl6
16:50 GlitchMr joined #perl6
16:57 masak another sexism-related incident at a tech conf. http://www.whatwherewhy.me/bl​og/2012/06/11/the-male-gaze/ -- wow.
16:58 aesundstrom joined #perl6
17:09 benabik While I don't mind not having to wear a suit & tie, perhaps referring to genitalia is getting a little _too_ casual.
17:11 PerlJam First time I've seen the term "feminism theory"
17:11 masak really? you must not live in Sweden.
17:12 masak here it's an academic field.
17:12 jnthn :/
17:13 rjbs It's usually called "feminist theory" ime.
17:13 rjbs Ah, as it is in the article.
17:13 * jnthn wonders why it's not as blindingly obvious to others as it is to him that said Azure dance routine and song was of course going to be a terrible idea.
17:13 rjbs jnthn: It's bizarre, isn't it?
17:13 PerlJam either way, it's the first time I've seen the word "theory" associated with feminism in any way.
17:14 benabik I find the face that it's a .me domain amusing.  My first read of the domain name is "What?  Where?  Why me?"
17:14 PerlJam rjbs: it's ... wait for it ... the male gaze!  :)
17:15 masak jnthn: sometimes bad ideas aren't properly culled before publishing. seems like a case of not enough people in the filtering process who would've thought of stopping it.
17:15 pmichaud PerlJam: looks like a common term in most Women's Studies curricula
17:15 pmichaud masak:  I suspect it's  "...who would've realized anything was amiss", sadly.
17:15 rjbs benabik: Heh.
17:15 Chillance joined #perl6
17:16 flussence today something reminded me of the whole "Windows 7 Release Party" thing. MS really needs to stop trying to "innovate" its advertising.
17:16 PerlJam not enough critical thinkers in the room.
17:17 pmichaud well, it may also have been a small room
17:17 sorear good * #perl6
17:18 masak feels to me MS often makes this kind of blunt mistake when trying to amuse people.
17:18 masak good *, sorear.
17:19 masak or maybe it's just big IT corps making this kind of blunt mistake. Dell recently did the misogynist comedian stunt.
17:21 PerlJam no, they're just more noticable
17:21 [Coke] masak: tofubrain.
17:23 pmichaud afk, lunch
17:23 Chillance joined #perl6
17:29 masak [Coke]: I wonder if there are vegan zombies.
17:30 adu masak: misogynist comedian? what did they do?
17:31 [Coke] masak: GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINS
17:32 masak [Coke]: :P
17:33 masak adu: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/​wiki/Mads_Christensen_and_Dell
17:35 adu interesting
17:36 PerlJam also, testafy looks like Cucumber with a nice interface
17:36 mtk0 joined #perl6
17:38 mtk joined #perl6
17:39 BlueT_ joined #perl6
17:50 thou joined #perl6
17:51 cggoebel joined #perl6
18:03 vmspb joined #perl6
18:04 preflex_ joined #perl6
18:17 masak PerlJam: url? DuckDuckGo doesn't find anything reasonable for 'testafy', and is sure I spelled it rong.
18:18 [Coke] testify?
18:18 rjbs testafy
18:18 PerlJam testafy.com
18:19 rjbs I have their card somewhere.
18:19 rjbs I can look for it in a minute if nobody finds it.
18:19 masak PerlJam: thank you.
18:21 masak PerlJam: I'm still curious about how the failure modes of such a thing may look.
18:22 masak there is something to be said for crisp exactness, too.
18:22 masak but yeah, "the Google of automation tools" sounds not-too-bad.
18:22 rjbs I wanted to see whether I could program it without using the Englishy bits
18:23 rjbs I don't care if they offer that for others, but I really do not like programming like that.
18:24 PerlJam rjbs: me either.  It's too far away from the metal and not quite the right abstraction (for me).
18:25 rjbs And if you want to metaprogram, you're now generating "English" with perl
18:27 masak brains and computers keep meeting in the middle and creating awesome stuff. English isn't the middle, it's too much towards the brains.
18:29 PerlJam things like cucumber or testafy also don't make sense to me a BDD.  The underlying premise that the devs and clients always talk to each other seems a little unrealistic.  however, as "behavior driven bug fix" or something it might more sense in that you can have the "customer care" folks interact with the client and without much technical knowledge they can generate the appropriate tests that you can code to.
18:32 masak I am really jazzed about the idea of an "executable spec", editable by the domain expert, and runnable as automated tests on the application.
18:33 masak I think that has great potential. and it makes a lot more sense with commands and events, too.
18:37 aindilis joined #perl6
18:37 PerlJam it'll have more potential when we get out of this "write your tests in this stilted english" phase.  :)
18:38 jnthn Those weird English dialects always struck me as at least as difficult to write as many programming languages. :)
18:39 jnthn Worse, as a programmer, I couldn't immediately see the patterns and how it mapped to stuff.
18:39 jnthn Feels like worst of both worlds.
18:39 masak you.wrong.me.sir! once.you.learn.to.read.this.it.is.very.easy!
18:39 * masak .oO( Object-Obsessed Programming )
18:39 jnthn hah, reminds me of a slide I once had...
18:40 jnthn You.Put.Periods(in => "stuff").And("throw").In(some => "lambdas").And.HOLYSHITADSL();
18:40 masak :P
18:41 * masak read that as "holy shit, ASDL!"
18:41 PerlJam heh
18:41 jnthn Back in the long-way-from-anything village where I grew up, there was a day I said that one too. :P
18:42 aindilis joined #perl6
18:43 jnthn oh wait, that was ADSL... :)
18:43 masak oops. indeed.
18:43 pmichaud "Holy dotcoms, Batman!  It's a method chain!"
18:44 jnthn Though, google ASDL and there is a "Abstract Syntax Description Language"
18:44 jnthn :)
18:44 PerlJam I'm all for these so-called DSLs if they are useful.  But many times they are just clever-for-clever sake if you ask me.
18:44 masak aye.
18:44 jnthn Too many times, yeah.
18:44 masak regexes are undeniably a useful DSL.
18:45 jnthn Right.
18:45 jnthn There's a bunch of good examples.
18:46 pmichaud bah, behind every regex is source code that is within a couple of orders of magnitude of the regex version.  :-P
18:47 pmichaud afk for a while
18:50 sorear asymmetric direct subscriber line?  anti-defamationsomethingleague?
18:51 tadzik wasn't that Digital Subscriber Line?
18:52 jnthn I think so.
18:53 masak pmichaud: that's probably part of why regexes are really useful. they fold complex string handling into a natural syntax.
18:54 masak I'm always on the lookout for ways to pull off the same trick in other domains. *syntactically* making hard things possible.
19:03 cog_ joined #perl6
19:12 mtk joined #perl6
19:26 harmil 300 lines of code in 4 files, and I get "Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}'"
19:26 harmil Any chance Rakudo could change that error to "go fish"?
19:28 diakopter +238746 that error is horribly common
19:38 cog__ joined #perl6
19:40 jnthn harmil: I *could* do that, but instead I fixed it to report a location in https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ea​9ceea3ed4dbd505860b4208b469e1e30354720 :)
19:41 colomon harmil: I've got that error in Rakudo with perfectly legal Perl 6 code...
19:43 mikemol joined #perl6
19:44 harmil jnthn: clearly you are incapable of performing a simple request. For shame! ;-)
19:44 jnthn harmil: I'll put it on my todo list :-P
19:44 harmil colomon: well, parsing errors will happen. My concern is just trying to find the location, and jnthn has fixed that for me. Thanks!
19:44 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
19:47 quietfanatic joined #perl6
19:49 tadzik "She talks about closure and that validation bit"
19:49 tadzik Well, Offspring, I've never looked at you in that light
19:49 tadzik sjn: sergot says he'll send stuff tommorow
19:49 huf hahahahah :D
20:03 adu tadzik: you're awake?
20:04 tadzik adu: I am
20:07 tadzik adu: whatsup?
20:08 adu tadzik: the sky
20:09 tadzik haha, you got me by suprise ;)
20:09 adu also, trying to learn how to use TAP/Test.pm
20:11 tadzik it's quite convenient
20:12 adu but I guess one could just print "not ok" too
20:12 tadzik indeed. Rakudo does that, in pre-Test.pm tests
20:12 tadzik but it's just easier to call ok()
20:12 adu it is
20:36 thou joined #perl6
20:37 cggoebel joined #perl6
20:41 * colomon is now undoing his last four hours' worth of $work...
20:44 geekosaur oops
20:47 sudokode joined #perl6
20:54 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
20:55 cognominal joined #perl6
20:56 skids joined #perl6
21:01 cog_ joined #perl6
21:03 sisar where in the synopses are the rules for variable names ? or are the rules same as perl5 ?
21:05 atrodo joined #perl6
21:06 masak sisar: S02.
21:06 masak the rules are mostly the same as in Perl 5.
21:06 sisar masak: thanks
21:06 masak what's new is that you can use apostrophes and dashes inside identifiers, as long as alphabetics surround.
21:07 masak rn: sub foo-bar'baz { say "OH HAI" }; foo-bar'baz
21:07 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6, niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
21:10 sisar "identifiers" ?
21:10 sisar 'identifier' is the variabe/sub/object name ?
21:10 [Coke] huh. cj is the name of my bot.
21:10 moritz sisar: yes
21:10 [Coke] cj: compute the distance to the moon! # ;)
21:10 masak sisar: yes, it's the thing that's common between a variable and a sub name and a class name.
21:11 moritz sisar: though variables in perl 6 are sigil + optional twigil + identifier
21:11 sisar moritz, masak : thanks.
21:11 timotimo moritz: there's also a way to have sigil-less variables
21:11 [Coke] r: say 247038 * 5280
21:11 moritz .. plus optional more identifiers, separated by double colons
21:11 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«1304360640␤»
21:11 sisar we really need to document these simple concepts somewhere
21:12 sisar moritz++, masak++
21:12 timotimo when you put \ in signatures etc
21:12 masak I'm sure more can be done to build an explicit vocab somewhere.
21:12 timotimo (i use "etc" as "you have to put in all the details because i don't know anything more about it")
21:12 sisar masak: +1 for a perl6 vocab
21:12 masak but in some sense, the only cure for ignorance is hanging around here for half a decade or so.
21:14 * masak .oO( I didn't used to know what "ignoramus" meant, and now I are one! )
21:14 cj [Coke]: was.
21:15 cj [Coke]: it's my name.  find a new one for your bot ;-)
21:17 cggoebel joined #perl6
21:27 [Coke] if I ever port him to irc, and freenode, absolutely. ;)
21:27 * [Coke] bumps that up a few notches on the fun todo list.
21:29 kurahaupo joined #perl6
21:33 sisar http://wiki.perl6.org/identifier , i could not come up with a good definition., can some add a good, maybe language neutral definition.
21:33 sisar I like making such micro concept docs.
21:36 moritz r: a1-b
21:36 p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&a1-b' called (line 1)␤»
21:36 moritz std: a1-b
21:36 p6eval std 30385f8: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Undeclared routine:� 'a1-b' used at line 1�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 40m�»
21:37 sisar "An identifier may also contain isolated apostrophes or hyphens provided the next character is alphabetic." What is an isolated apostrophe ?
21:38 flussence !~ / ^\' | \'$ /
21:39 * moritz wonders if it isn't easier to write down the grammars rules for parsing identifiers :-)
21:39 moritz apostrophe is '. "isolated" means there can't be two of them in a row
21:39 sisar moritz++ #defiening identifiers
21:42 cog_ <masak> "but in some sense, the only cure for ignorance is hanging around here for half a decade or so."  Make it a french decade and it will be 365 times more palatable
21:42 masak what's a French decade?
21:42 cog_ ten days
21:42 masak heh.
21:43 masak 365 times the knowledge shock, for sure.
21:43 * sisar is yet to complete a year of #perl6 madness
21:43 * masak .oO( I know Kung Ffffffffuuuuuuu )
21:45 cog_ masak, the factor is greater but in the opposite direction for billions.
21:46 cog_ a french billion is 1k the anglosaxon one.
21:47 cog_ anyway,  I think we are saner than anglosaxons because we use the metric system
21:47 moritz note that on the British islands, at least the scientists use the metric system
21:47 flussence the roads don't :(
21:47 harmil cog_: $we.defined?
21:48 cog_ speaking of decade, fpw, the French Perl workshop, will happen in less then a décade.
21:48 cog_ *than
21:48 moritz and in Scotland, empty offices are advertised both in m² and ft²
21:49 harmil moritz: I'd ask about the y dimension as well before you buy. "It doesn't have one" is a bad sign....
21:49 masak 'night, #perl6
21:49 diakopter o/
21:49 cog_ apple.com uses both systems :  http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html
21:50 cog_ but we still uses inches in France for computer display diagonal for whatever reason.
21:51 moritz that seems to be an international desease
21:51 timotimo (in germany, too)
21:52 cggoebel joined #perl6
21:52 cog_ blame marketting
21:52 cog_ s/tt/t/
21:52 dalek doc: edd0140 | moritz++ | lib/Int.pm:
21:52 dalek doc: basic Int docs
21:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/edd014083e
21:53 moritz it seems that Int doesn't really have any methods on its own
21:53 moritz only those provided from Real and Cool
21:53 moritz (notionally; the implementation still has some)
21:58 moritz http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=977481 # that illustrates the "arrays force all their values into containers, lists don't" thing, though in perl 5
21:59 * moritz -> sleep, now that Ronja has decided to sleep as well :-)
22:07 cog_ joined #perl6
22:09 daemon joined #perl6
22:13 harmil is there a shorthand for saying "use Module; UNIT::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<&f​unc-that-module-provides> = &func-that-module-provides;" ? That is to say, is there a way to say "re-export symbol foo" once I import it from a module?
22:14 harmil Ah, nevermind, it was further down in S11 than I'd read
22:15 cggoebel joined #perl6
22:15 harmil hmm… but the right way doesn't seem to be implemented in rakudo yet
22:41 jnthn harmil: No, I think it ain't there yet.
22:50 flussence that's the one big blocker to me implementing a joke PHP module (export thousands of functions, but keep them sanely namespaced internally :)
22:51 jnthn I'm not sure whether you just encouraged me to implement it or discouraged me from implementing it :P
22:55 jnthn Time for some sleep, night o/
22:55 flussence \o
22:55 flussence .oO( sometimes Catalyst feels like the object-oriented equivalent... thousands of methods mixed in from dozens of modules )
23:14 [particle]1 joined #perl6
23:22 Psyche^ joined #perl6
23:52 att joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo