Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-08-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:15 diakopter pmichaud: have you thought about ways to coalesce redundant/unneeded Cursors (for efficiency)
01:23 diakopter pmichaud: (or, perhaps I should ask: is there any possibility of coalescing Cursors for fastpath mode, then constructing the correct Cursor structure when the matching fate is chosen.. or something like that)
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01:28 diakopter pmichaud: or some other way of using a fastpath, far less heavyweight mode for patterns that are detected to not need all the features of a Cursor and related
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05:18 moritz \o
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05:19 sorear o/
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06:45 japhb moritz, do you have graphviz on whatever machine you are doing htmlify for perl6/doc on?
06:46 jnthn morning, #perl6
06:46 jnthn wow...short backlog is short.
06:46 diakopter morning
06:47 dalek doc: 1c5e9d8 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | lib/Perl6/Type (2 files):
06:47 dalek doc: Cache the inversion of all type relationships in the type graph
06:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1c5e9d883c
06:47 dalek doc: 11bb98c | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm:
06:47 dalek doc: Add Perl6::TypeGraph::Viz, which uses GraphViz to visualize type graph relationships
06:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/11bb98c064
06:48 dalek doc/generate-svg: 06c2000 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
06:48 dalek doc/generate-svg: Generate type graph visualizations as SVG files (and .gitignore the new html/svg/ directory)
06:48 dalek doc/generate-svg: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/06c2000040
06:49 japhb phenny, tell moritz Feel free to merge the generate-svg branch for perl6/doc once you have graphviz installed on your htmlify system.
06:49 phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
06:49 japhb afk, but will scroll back &
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07:23 dalek rakudo/nom: e1905aa | moritz++ | / (3 files):
07:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Str.path, IO::Path.new(Str:D), tests
07:23 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Also rename IO::Path.dir to .directory, as per spec
07:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Preserve backwards compatiblity for now
07:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e1905aad03
07:29 moritz the shared module installations to ~/.perl6/lib is starting to annoy me
07:29 phenny moritz: 06:49Z <japhb> tell moritz Feel free to merge the generate-svg branch for perl6/doc once you have graphviz installed on your htmlify system.
07:30 moritz I want to keep a "production" installation of rakudo for running p6rd, htmlifying doc.perl6.org etc
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07:37 moritz speaking of which, p6rd has segfaulted after several days of operation
07:38 sorear what does p6rd do?
07:38 moritz inform us about release dates
07:38 moritz p6rd: upcoming
07:39 moritz eeks
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07:39 moritz Net::IRC::Bot depends on Str.bytes
07:45 diakopter moritz: what other examples of long-running p6 programs are there
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07:46 moritz diakopter: dunno, maybe Bailador apps
07:46 moritz p6rd: upcoming
07:46 p6rd parrot 2012-08-21, rakudo 2012-08-23, niecza 2012-08-27
07:47 moritz p6rd: 2012-12
07:47 p6rd parrot 2012-12-18, rakudo 2012-12-20, niecza 2012-12-31
07:50 bonsaikitten is there a RSS feed for that? :)
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08:37 GlitchMr https://robert.duckduckgo.com/?q=chomp+perl6
08:37 GlitchMr :)
08:38 moritz that looks nice
08:38 tadzik wow, cool!
08:40 GlitchMr Also, https://robert.duckduckgo.com/?q=ACCEPTS+perl6 (ignore "making some information available" for now)
08:41 GlitchMr Additionally, if you know name of class, you can skip Perl 6 part
08:41 GlitchMr https://robert.duckduckgo.com/?q=Str.chomp
08:41 GlitchMr This works too
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08:42 GlitchMr ... I should implement inheritance now :P
08:42 GlitchMr So you could do stuff like Str.any too
08:43 moritz https://robert.duckduckgo.​com/?q=X%3A%3AAdHoc+perl6  # doesn't work yet :/
08:43 GlitchMr Hmmm... I know
08:43 GlitchMr I'm going to fix ita
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08:48 sergot hi o/
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08:49 moritz \o sergot
08:49 moritz GlitchMr++ # ddg stuff
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08:49 jnthn GlitchMr++
08:50 GlitchMr Actually, i lied about Str.chomp-like stuff always working
08:51 GlitchMr There is one edge case where it doesn't
08:51 GlitchMr http://robert.duckduckgo.com/?q=Any.any
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09:34 moritz http://hpmor.com/notes/progress-12-08-01/ :( no new chapter
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10:18 GlitchMr http://doc.perl6.org/type/Junction#See%20Also
10:19 GlitchMr Those things are making parsing harder than it needs to be...
10:19 GlitchMr But whatever :)
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11:10 moritz GlitchMr: what's the problem with it?
11:10 moritz methods are always below a level 1 heading called "Methods"
11:10 moritz or "Methods supplied by..."
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11:13 jnthn Mmm...curry lunch :)
11:13 jnthn Ewww...excel generation afternoon.
11:14 jnthn .oO( can't win 'em all... )
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12:45 moritz so, who will write a spreadsheet writer for Perl 6? :-)
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12:49 moritz nr: say Capture ~~ Cool
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12:49 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb, niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:51 moritz http://doc.perl6.org/svg/type-graph-Any.svg
12:51 moritz that's... a lot of stuff inheriting from Any
12:51 moritz we might not want that all in the chart, just the superclasses and roles
12:58 dalek doc/generate-svg: 584bf60 | moritz++ | lib/AST.pod:
12:58 dalek doc/generate-svg: document AST
12:58 dalek doc/generate-svg:
12:58 dalek doc/generate-svg: (masak, please proof-read and augment)
12:58 dalek doc/generate-svg: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/584bf603e1
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12:59 jnthn moritz: Did you mean for that to go in the branch?
12:59 moritz erm, no
12:59 moritz but I meant to merge the branch anyway
13:00 jnthn :)
13:00 moritz japhb++ did some really cool work there
13:00 dalek doc: fd36986 | moritz++ | lib/Block.pod:
13:00 dalek doc: document Block
13:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fd36986046
13:00 dalek doc: 06c2000 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
13:00 dalek doc: Generate type graph visualizations as SVG files (and .gitignore the new html/svg/ directory)
13:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/06c2000040
13:00 dalek doc: 5f4d151 | moritz++ | lib/ (7 files):
13:01 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
13:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5f4d151ec3
13:01 dalek doc: 584bf60 | moritz++ | lib/AST.pod:
13:01 dalek doc: document AST
13:01 dalek doc:
13:01 dalek doc: (masak, please proof-read and augment)
13:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/584bf603e1
13:01 dalek doc: db1a7dd | moritz++ | / (3 files):
13:01 dalek doc: Merge remote branch 'origin/generate-svg'
13:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/db1a7dd02b
13:01 jnthn Sadly, here at $client I don't have anything that will render an SVG installed :'/
13:01 jnthn Will have to have a look when I get back home.
13:01 moritz not even firefox?
13:02 moritz that's cruel :-)
13:02 jnthn I could install Firefox I guess.
13:03 * jnthn was moved from machine to machine for weeks on end, so hasn't invested much time in making this one the way he likes it until it seems things settle down a bit.
13:05 jnthn Tip for anybody who does do a Perl 6 spreadsheet emitter thing: give the programmer a DOM for it that doesn't suck. :/
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13:07 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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13:14 daxim perl6: my $foo; say $foo.WHAT
13:14 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb, niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
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13:19 moritz jnthn: how would a non-sucking DOM for a spreadsheet look like?
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13:20 moritz I'd imagine there's not too much to it
13:20 moritz like, a collection of worksheets
13:20 moritz and each worksheet is a 2D grid of cells
13:20 moritz and a cell knows if it holds a string, number, date or formula
13:21 moritz I'd imagine there's not too much to it # I can imagine what Excel or Gnumeric core devs would think about that line :-)
13:21 jnthn Things like, if you can format stuff within a cell as well as at the level of the cell as a whole, try for making the API for doing the two consistent. :-)
13:21 [Coke] (spreadsheet writer) you mean like the wonderful p5 one? that's a big enough project that it seems better to spend cycles being able to run p5/convert existing p5 code.
13:22 moritz [Coke]: I've read that the one for XLSX is slightly smaller than the one for XLS files :-)
13:22 [Coke] I've spent the last six months working on a project in java to generate .xlsx files quickly from sql/stored procs, so it's kind of near to my brain.
13:23 [Coke] if I were writing something, I'd just do .xlsx. it's just xml and zip and a few thousand pages of DTDs.
13:24 moritz [Coke]++ # few thousand pages of DTDs
13:24 moritz it's not a project I'd do for fun
13:25 [Coke] moritz: me either! ;)
13:25 [Coke] I'm cheating, of course, being a perl programmer, and ignoring the DTDs unless I have to. ;)
13:25 jnthn Nor me :)
13:26 moritz is shelling out to perl considered kosher in the Java world? :-)
13:27 flussence I'd give up and use CSV...
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13:29 rjbs I didn't know Javaites kept kosher.
13:31 jnthn .oO( Java code always looked a little porky to me... )
13:33 jnthn Oh my, now it spat out a corrupt Excel document?!
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13:43 dalek doc: b1b87b7 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
13:43 dalek doc: [htmlify] emit PNG images along with SVG
13:43 dalek doc:
13:43 dalek doc: also change the output directory
13:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b1b87b7be2
13:43 moritz jnthn: http://doc.perl6.org/images/type-graph-Any.png for you :-)
13:45 moritz http://doc.perl6.org/images/type-graph-Cool.png less convoluted
13:45 jnthn whoa!
13:46 moritz japhb: I think we should omit subclasses if there more than $n of them (where $n might be 10 or 20 or so)
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13:47 jnthn http://doc.perl6.org/images/type-graph-Numeric.png is nice, though makes me wonder if showing the things under Real wouldn't also have been nice.
13:48 moritz it's always just one level for consumers
13:48 moritz currently
13:48 jnthn *nod*
13:48 jnthn japhb++
13:48 jnthn These are great.
13:48 moritz maybe we should generally limit to $n consumers, rather than to one level
13:48 moritz but it's something I'll happily leave to japhb++
13:49 jnthn Is it working of data from relection, ooc?
13:49 jnthn That is, can this be applied to any bunch of types?
13:49 jnthn Or is it fairly specialized to what's in CORE?
13:50 moritz currently it gets the data from type-graph.txt
13:50 jnthn k
13:50 moritz but it goes through an indirection layer (Perl6::TypeGraph, with Perl6::Type nodes)
13:50 moritz shouldn't be hard to fill it via introspection instead
13:51 jnthn yay :)
13:51 moritz and still reuse the dot/svg/png generation
13:52 UncleFester6 r: pir::say "abc"
13:52 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤pir::say missing a signature␤»
13:52 moritz r: nqp::say 'abc'
13:52 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«abc␤»
13:52 moritz r: pir::say__vS 'abc'
13:52 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«abc␤»
13:53 UncleFester6 some p6 modules depend on pir::load_bytecode and wound build for me with parrot anymore - same missing signature error
13:53 UncleFester6 s/parrot/rakudo
13:53 moritz that's since the toqast branch merge
13:54 moritz I've submitted a pull request for MIME::Base64
13:54 UncleFester6 other module I noticed would be Diget::MD5
13:54 UncleFester6 Digest::MD5
13:54 moritz snarkyboojum: please apply it :-)
13:56 moritz UncleFester6: I'll patch-and-pull-request that one when I come home
14:02 dalek doc: cb90010 | moritz++ | htmlify.pl:
14:02 dalek doc: [htmlify] stop supporting custom output dirs
14:02 dalek doc:
14:02 dalek doc: since static files directly live in html/, there is not much point in
14:02 dalek doc: allowing different output directories, which would then be incomplete.
14:02 dalek doc: Gets rid of some repetitive argument passing
14:02 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cb90010d06
14:12 moritz r: say Routine.^mro
14:12 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«Routine() Block() Code() Any() Mu()␤»
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14:26 dalek doc: 982e21f | moritz++ | lib/Routine.pod:
14:26 dalek doc: document Routine
14:26 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/982e21f126
14:27 GlitchMr I've updated my DuckDuckGo thing, so you can do stuff like "Str.say" or "perl6 Mu". It isn't yet merged, I'm now waiting for merge :).
14:27 moritz GlitchMr++
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14:27 moritz ++crazedpsyc # anticipated merge :-)
14:28 GlitchMr "Str.say" shows entry for "Mu.say", but I don't think it matters much
14:28 moritz it's a very good start
14:30 jnthn Once its merged, probably good to blog about it too :)
14:30 GlitchMr I wonder why they don't use JSON or something like this, but whatever
14:30 * jnthn finds it quite exciting :)
14:31 GlitchMr Also, https://github.com/GlitchMr/zeroclickinfo-f​athead/blob/perl6-doc/perl6_doc/output.txt
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14:33 * JimmyZ wonders whether there is a ticket or not for https://github.com/perl6/doc​/blob/master/htmlify.pl#L74, the needless colon
14:35 moritz JimmyZ: does rakudo handle it without the semicolon?
14:35 JimmyZ moritz: nope
14:36 hoelzro does anyone know what library Github uses to do its syntax highlighting?
14:36 moritz JimmyZ: you meant rakudobug? yes
14:36 JimmyZ moritz: yeah
14:36 moritz JimmyZ: there's even a ROADMAP item for it
14:36 crazedpsyc moritz: hah, robert is the fathead guy, I'm staying out :)
14:37 moritz ++robert then :-)
14:37 GlitchMr hoelzro: pygments
14:37 hoelzro GlitchMr: thanks
14:38 JimmyZ hoelzro: I think it's here : https://github.com/github/
14:38 hoelzro JimmyZ: I looked at their markdown lib, but I couldn't find details on the syntax highlighting
14:38 * hoelzro wants to add Perl 6 support to GH
14:39 GlitchMr Send your language to pygments and GitHub should update someday
14:39 GlitchMr ...
14:39 JimmyZ hoelzro: https://github.com/github/linguist
14:40 GlitchMr Except, I think that there could be a problem... most of Perl 6 scripts use .pl extension
14:40 GlitchMr And .pm
14:40 moritz and .pod
14:40 JimmyZ hoelzro: they use this library at GitHub to detect blob languages, highlight code, ignore binary files
14:41 hoelzro JimmyZ: I just saw that, thanks =)
14:41 * hoelzro uses .p6/.pm6
14:42 hoelzro I'm guessing I'm allowed to dip into the content of the file a bit to look for 'use v6' or something
14:42 JimmyZ hoelzro: For disambiguating between files with common extensions, they use a bayesian classifier. https://github.com/github/linguist/bl​ob/master/lib/linguist/classifier.rb
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14:43 hoelzro nice
14:43 [Coke] Oh. I still have a project for pmichaud to show test coverage by test by implementation, don't i.
14:43 moritz pull request for Digest::MD5 submitted
14:43 GlitchMr But, would GitHub classify Perl 5 and Perl 6 as different languages :P?
14:44 [Coke] I suppose I should start that by moving my gist into an actual project.
14:44 moritz cosimo++ is usually pretty quick in applying them
14:44 moritz GlitchMr: if we ask them nicely, why not?
14:44 [Coke] moritz: how would they, if we're using .pl everywhere?
14:44 [Coke] (same way we do?)
14:45 moritz [Coke]: what JimmyZ said
14:45 GlitchMr They classify Python 2 and Python 3 as this same languages... but differences are rather small, so whatever
14:45 moritz [Coke]: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2012-08-02#i_5868680
14:46 GlitchMr Perl 5 and Perl 6 are definitely different
14:46 [Coke] you'd think I could see that far up the scroll. huh. ;)
14:46 moritz you'd have to move your eyes :-)
14:46 PerlJam They could just use file(1)  ;)
14:47 moritz better than fail(1) :-)
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14:49 GlitchMr glitchmr@strawberry ~/g/z/perl6_doc> man fail
14:49 GlitchMr No manual entry for fail
14:49 [Coke] . o O (Ugh. so blah)
14:49 moritz r: say fail(1)
14:49 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«1␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:9624␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7024␤  in block  at /tmp/pKPe2gswrV:1␤␤»
14:49 flussence .oO( failure is not an option? )
14:49 GlitchMr I guess I don't have program which provides fail manual page
14:49 tadzik fail: command not found
14:49 tadzik that has a double meaning :)
14:50 GlitchMr But, I think the fail man page exists...
14:50 GlitchMr Except it's fail(9)
14:50 GlitchMr http://man.cx/fail
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15:13 [Coke] https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data -- was originally in a gist.
15:15 moritz [Coke]++
15:15 jnthn beer, decommute &
15:19 [Coke] now pmichaud can open an issue there. ;)
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15:20 dalek doc: 1ca287f | moritz++ | lib/X/Syntax.pod:
15:20 dalek doc: X::Syntax
15:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1ca287f1b9
15:24 dalek doc: f576a26 | moritz++ | lib/X/Syntax/NegatedPair.pod:
15:24 dalek doc: X::Syntax::NegatedPair
15:24 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f576a2647c
15:31 * PerlJam wonders what his brain is doing sometimes
15:32 PerlJam at first glance I read that as "X::Syntax::NegatedBear"
15:32 PerlJam (weird, huh?)
15:32 moritz firing neurons?
15:32 moritz while writing docs I just realized that we could include the key of the malformed pair in the error message
15:36 moritz I hate that, getting stuck in code improvements while I actually wanted to write docs
15:37 moritz it's a good case for writing docs earlier than I usually do
15:38 moritz cosimo++ already merged the Digest::MD5 patch \0/
15:39 cosimo moritz: thanks for that
15:41 cosimo is the current rakudo branch nom?
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15:42 moritz yes
15:42 fgomez joined #perl6
15:43 cosimo I'm a bit out of the loop :-|
15:43 dalek rakudo/nom: d71ad18 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
15:43 dalek rakudo/nom: include key of negated pair with value in the error message
15:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d71ad18105
15:45 dalek roast: 425b786 | moritz++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
15:45 dalek roast: test for extra information in X::Syntax::NegatedPair
15:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/425b7869da
15:45 moritz decommute&
15:55 gfldex r: role R { our $.r; }; class C does R { our $.c = LolImUndefined; }
15:55 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
15:56 gfldex i'm in your language make your compiler crash
15:56 [Coke] eek.
15:56 gfldex jnthn: ^^^ please note
15:57 arnsholt Only happens if it has a role?
15:58 gfldex yes
15:58 gfldex it's RT#114380
16:00 arnsholt r: role R { has $.r; }; class C does R { our $.c = LolImUndefined; }
16:00 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&LolImUndefined' called (line 1)␤»
16:00 arnsholt Right. So somehow related to the role having a package variable, it seems
16:08 gfldex r: role R { my $.r; }; class C does R { our $.c = LolImUndefined; }
16:08 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
16:09 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
16:11 thelazydeveloper joined #perl6
16:11 alester joined #perl6
16:18 moritz r: role R { my $.r }
16:18 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb:  ( no output )
16:19 moritz r: role R { my $.r }; class C does R { our $.c }
16:19 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
16:19 moritz r: role R { my $.r }; class C does R {  }
16:19 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
16:19 moritz golfed!
16:19 pmichaud moritz: ping
16:19 moritz pmichaud: pong
16:20 pmichaud I'm reading the "platforms problems" thread on parrot-dev, and I'm a little concerned.  Parrot's thinking of abandoning the ability to run on *BSD and *Solaris?
16:20 pmichaud (and I'm asking you because you've been somewhat aware/involved of the branches involved, I think :)
16:23 pmichaud I guess my first question is: Do we (Rakudo) care about BSD and Solaris?  My thinking is "yes we do".
16:26 moritz yes, we do
16:26 cognominal joined #perl6
16:27 pmichaud will the io_cleanup and/or thread branch merges give Rakudo any features/benefits that it doesn't already have, ooc?
16:27 sivoais joined #perl6
16:30 pmichaud I guess I should just write my concerns to parrot-dev.
16:30 pmichaud that's going to be a delicate email to write.  :-/
16:33 MayDaniel joined #perl6
16:36 PerlJam pmichaud: "aaiiiigggghh!  What are y'all doing?!?"  :)
16:40 fgomez joined #perl6
16:40 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
16:48 GlitchMr Just wondering, when Perl 6 search will be added to DuckDuckGo how can I blog about it?
16:51 GlitchMr I guess I will have to make a blog :P
16:56 felher Is there a special pass-through-ast-of-only-matching-subrule thing? I.d: if i have a grammar "... regex a() { <a> | <b> | <c> | <d> } ... ", is there a special whatever that does " method a($/) { if $/.exists("a") { make $/<a>.ast; } elsif $/.exists("b") .... } "? Im using " method a($/) { make $/.values[0].ast; } " for now, which is not bad. I'm just wondering if there is a special way to express this
16:56 felher which i'm not aware off.
16:58 felher Oh, btw: i mean "regex x() { <a> ..." and "method x($/) {...", not regex and method "a" :)
17:00 pmichaud email sent
17:05 pmichaud felher: there's not a "pass through" mechanism for the .ast items (yet?)
17:05 pmichaud some of us have toyed with the notion of having one but as yet we do not.
17:06 felher pmichaud: okay. Thanks :)
17:06 moritz pmichaud: sorry, have been called away
17:06 pmichaud I speculate we could have a method that looks through .caps and returns the first defined .ast that it encounters.
17:07 moritz pmichaud: and yes, we want some stuff that the io_cleanup branch gives us
17:07 moritz (like, .encoding on sockets, the possiblity to add a recv_bytes method to socket)
17:08 pmichaud are these things that we can only obtain through the io_cleanup branch?
17:08 moritz that's something I can't answer
17:09 moritz I understand the current state of the IO subsystem is a mess, and it would be really much more effort to add such things, though still possible
17:11 pmichaud well, we'll see what responses my email gets.  :-)
17:13 moritz it sounds like "negate the ability to run Parrot on" is a bit of an exaggeration
17:13 pmichaud yeah, that's probably true.
17:13 moritz there are also TODOed windows tests, and yet you can still run parrot on windows
17:14 moritz or maybe s/run/crawl/ :-)
17:14 pmichaud But "drop support for" sounds much more than "todo some tests"
17:15 pmichaud and if I/O itself doesn't work on those platforms... that's a pretty big feature to lose.  Thus we need more information.  :)
17:15 moritz agreed
17:18 pmichaud okay, thanks for the info.
17:35 PerlJam pweb
17:35 PerlJam oops, ww
17:36 [Coke] pew pew!
17:42 cognominal joined #perl6
17:54 masak salut, #perl6
17:56 japhb o/
17:57 japhb moritz, jnthn: Thank you for taking a look at the type graph visualizations -- and the positive comments :-)
17:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: 67c8561 | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates:
17:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: today
17:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/67c8561f69
17:58 * [Coke] tries to decide if that's useful.
17:58 japhb For the Any, Exception, and Metamodel cases, I have some code locally that I've been playing with to segment the complete typegraph, and then draw these in an easier-to-digest form.
17:59 * [Coke] settles on yes, since you ahve a link to the latest results.
17:59 jnthn good evening o/
17:59 japhb o/
17:59 [Coke] ... where did August 1st go.. whoops. ;)
17:59 moritz down the Tiber, I'm sure
18:00 * japhb thinks about the "limit consumers" heuristic suggested by jnthn++ and moritz++
18:00 [Coke] would it be helpful to put in the latest copies of each of the spec test run files?
18:01 [Coke] eh, sure.
18:01 [Coke] oops, meeting.
18:06 spider-mario joined #perl6
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18:25 cognominal joined #perl6
18:42 sorear good * #perl6
18:50 cognominal joined #perl6
18:50 diakopter sorear: howdy
18:51 diakopter (u do)
18:51 jnthn o/ sorear , diakopter
18:51 cognominal joined #perl6
18:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3ec3e6e | coke++ | / (5 files):
18:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: Add the test run output files daily.
18:53 dalek perl6-roast-data:
18:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: Start with the previous run's output.
18:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/3ec3e6ef1a
18:54 [Coke] there: now https://raw.github.com/coke/perl6-r​oast-data/master/rakudo_summary.out will have the latest automatically in case folks want to try to fix those, or catch breakage.
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: 550280d | coke++ | spec_ (3 files):
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: remove echos - they predate running via cron.
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data:
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: remove commented out code
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/550280dd6b
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: 4aa1b06 | coke++ | LICENSE:
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: Add LICENSE
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/4aa1b06e5c
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3526c40 | coke++ | README:
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: Add README
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/3526c40106
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1f5526f | coke++ | spec_ (3 files):
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: reformat code
19:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/1f5526f097
19:05 [Coke] annoyingly, having this in a public repo in a gist makes it more likely I'm going to hack on it. :)
19:07 diakopter :)
19:07 [Coke] *instead of a gist, I mean.
19:07 * [Coke] deletes the gist.
19:09 fgomez joined #perl6
19:15 [Coke] rakudo is seeing a lot of these:
19:15 [Coke] use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in sub is at lib/Test.pm:81
19:16 [Coke] r: use Test: say is(Any, 3);
19:16 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/RMwHNaaZbC:1␤»
19:16 [Coke] r: use Test; say is(Any, 3);
19:16 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in sub is at lib/Test.pm:81␤␤not ok 1 - ␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in sub is at lib/Test.pm:84␤␤#      got: ''␤# expected: '3'␤False␤»
19:17 [Coke] Should that warn, or just return false?
19:19 moritz yes, it should warn
19:19 moritz since &is does string comparison
19:20 [Coke] r: no warnings;
19:20 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&warnings' called (line 1)␤Undefined routine '&no' called (line 1)␤»
19:20 [Coke] r: no Test;
19:20 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&Test' called (line 1)␤Undefined routine '&no' called (line 1)␤»
19:21 dalek specs: bbbdb78 | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
19:21 dalek specs: [S32::Exception] X::Syntax::NegatedPair should report the key
19:21 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/bbbdb78468
19:24 moritz r: :!a(1)
19:24 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Argument not allowed on negated pair␤at /tmp/h6yAYGvHeC:1␤»
19:26 * moritz idly wonders why rakudo didn't update on p6eval
19:30 dalek doc: c837ee8 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm:
19:30 dalek doc: Improve algorithm for finding neighbors of requested node visualization; this makes the Numeric visualization way better, for instance
19:30 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c837ee837d
19:30 dalek doc: 804072a | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | htmlify.pl:
19:30 dalek doc: Write specialized visualizations for Any, Exception, and the Metamodel
19:30 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/804072a012
19:30 dalek doc: b0b42c9 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | .gitignore:
19:30 dalek doc: Fix .gitignore to skip html/images/ instead of html/svg/
19:30 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b0b42c9b18
19:32 * japhb iterates towards some form of sanity ...
19:32 t0rn joined #perl6
19:36 dalek evalbot: 369b28b | moritz++ | sync.pl:
19:36 dalek evalbot: teach sync.pl about pugs
19:36 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/369b28b2d0
19:36 dalek evalbot: cf3cbb9 | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
19:36 dalek evalbot: remove toqast target
19:36 dalek evalbot:
19:36 dalek evalbot: it has been merged into nom by now
19:36 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/cf3cbb9dc5
19:36 dalek evalbot: 6d61bd8 | moritz++ | build-scripts/rebuild-nom. (2 files):
19:36 dalek evalbot: [nom rebuild] switch to much simpler rebuild script
19:36 dalek evalbot:
19:36 dalek evalbot: since building and running happens on two different machines, rsync provides
19:36 dalek evalbot: snapshotting semantics for us. No need to keep two separate install locations
19:36 dalek evalbot: anymore
19:36 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/6d61bd8f80
19:36 japhb moritz, jnthn: In case it wasn't obvious, the .svg versions of the visualizations are clickable -- each node is a link to its corresponding type documentation
19:37 moritz japhb: yes, I've noticed that :-)
19:37 moritz though I'd prefer absolut paths in the SVGs
19:37 moritz because I'm sure some user agents will screw up with relativ paths :-)
19:37 japhb OOC, why?
19:38 moritz or we, when we move the images around
19:38 japhb ah, hmm.
19:38 * japhb wonders if there are any user agents that *can* render an SVG, but *can't* get the relative paths correct.
19:38 moritz I've generally made bad experience with relative paths and later changing URLs
19:39 moritz or relative URLs and mod_rewrite insanity :-)
19:39 moritz but in the end it's just a slight preference
19:40 japhb I've had the opposite experience: I commonly have tools move between "sites" or parts of the same site, and so only the relative urls work.
19:40 * japhb shrugs ... it's even easy to override the $.url-base  :-)
19:41 moritz \o/
19:41 moritz japhb++ # flexible design
19:41 japhb heh
19:42 moritz one more thing
19:42 japhb ?
19:42 moritz we probably want thumbnails of those images to be included in the HTML for the type
19:42 * japhb imagines moritz in a black turtleneck in front of a 5m high screen
19:42 moritz because the images themselves are often too large for direct inclusion
19:43 japhb moritz, yeah, I was thinking something similar, just hadn't quite decided how I wanted to do the thumbnails.
19:44 japhb I'd like to have the thumbs for something not terribly complex (a half-dozen nodes, say) to still be quite readable.
19:44 moritz in case we don't have a better idea,  convert $source.png -resize {$x}x$y $dest.png
19:44 moritz for small $source.png that will produce a readable $dest.png
19:45 japhb nodnod
19:45 moritz though it seems that you can pass   site="x,y"  to dot too
19:46 moritz though of course not as a command line argument. It needs to be in the input file :(
19:46 moritz r: :!a(1)
19:46 p6eval rakudo c1bfbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Argument not allowed on negated pair␤at /tmp/H3fTFz0sgC:1␤»
19:46 moritz r: :!a(1)
19:46 p6eval rakudo d71ad1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Argument not allowed on negated pair with key 'a'␤at /tmp/b3lQGrZFFx:1␤»
19:47 japhb moritz, well, we're generating the dot data, so injecting it into the input is workable.  :-)
19:47 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
19:48 japhb Since there can be only one link off the thumbs, how about we make the PNGs be the "thumbs", and have them link to the full-size SVGs?
19:48 moritz I'd love to simply link to the URL without extension
19:48 moritz and let content negotiation figure out whether to deliver the .png or .svg version
19:49 moritz not sure how well it works with contemporary browsers :-)
19:49 japhb Do browsers request SVG in preference to PNG?
19:49 moritz that's a very good question
19:50 dalek doc: 7bdd313 | moritz++ | lib/X/Syntax/NegatedPair.pod:
19:50 dalek doc: [X::Syntax::NegatedPair] document .key, error message
19:50 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7bdd313b43
19:50 japhb Well, let's start with the way we know will work, see what that's like, and go from there.
19:51 flussence chromium doesn't seem to care what the response is with images, it sends "Accept: */*"
19:52 flussence it sends a full list for html/css/js files, though
19:52 flussence oh wait, not for js either
19:53 flussence firefox sends for a .gif: "Accept: image/png,image/*;q=0.8,*/*;q=0.5". Looks like it wouldn't load svg.
19:54 cognominal joined #perl6
19:55 sorear i'm pretty sure you can use css3 fallbacks to do this :p
19:58 ilogger2 joined #perl6
20:01 dalek evalbot: a8b8afd | moritz++ | sync.pl:
20:01 dalek evalbot: [nom] stop syncing outdated dirs
20:01 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/a8b8afde4a
20:06 moritz japhb: I have an idea for injecting HTML into the output
20:06 moritz japhb: we can teach Pod::To::HTML to copy '=FOR HTML' sections verbatim to the output
20:07 moritz and then it'll be easy to add some HTML that embeds the image etc.
20:08 moritz wait, S26 says that should be   =begin Html ... =end Html
20:09 japhb There's no tag for having an image in the Pod directly?
20:10 moritz hm, there is
20:11 moritz =Image http://www.perlfoundation.org​/images/perl_logo_32x104.png
20:11 moritz though not sure if you can make the image a link
20:11 moritz I remember actively discouraging tadzik++ from parsing block elements inside of X<...> constructs
20:11 moritz for sanity reasons :-)
20:12 japhb It seems kinda silly not being able to make an image link (though I agree with what you said to tadzik)
20:15 moritz hm, S26 is full of options
20:15 moritz maybe we can make   =begin para L<URL HERE>  \n block contents \n =end para  work that way
20:19 moritz but not today&
20:22 dalek doc: 76924b1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
20:22 dalek doc: Support sized Viz output, and make PNG visualizations 8" x 3" max (rendered at 96 dpi) for use as "mostly readable thumbnails"
20:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/76924b17e0
20:22 dalek doc: 4bf7649 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | lib/X/Syntax/NegatedPair.pod:
20:22 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
20:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4bf76497ef
20:22 japhb Time for lunch &
20:30 snearch joined #perl6
21:13 japhb Mmm, Goan food ...
21:13 jnthn I'd go an' have some of that!
21:13 japhb :-P
21:15 cognominal joined #perl6
21:16 masak trust jnthn to find the puntential in any utterance... :)
21:16 * masak .oO( he should change his nick to jnpun... )
21:17 jnthn But it'd contain a vowel and risk pronuncability :P
21:17 masak well, I considered jnphn, but that wasn't as visually evident.
21:18 masak and given how IRC is mainly visual (even though it's really a metaphor for spoken conversation)...
21:21 japhb Anyone around who can htmlify the perl6/doc and run the sync script?  moritz seems to be asleep, and my public key access to p6doc@feather2.perl6.nl seems broken
21:23 japhb (You'll need URI and Pod::To::HTML for Perl 6, and graphviz installed and in your PATH for generating the visualizations)
21:38 cognominal joined #perl6
21:41 masak nr: role R { our $.r }; class C does R {}; say "alive"
21:41 p6eval rakudo d71ad1: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
21:41 p6eval ..niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«alive␤»
21:42 * masak adds this to https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=114380
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22:48 lue hello world o/
22:53 cognominal joined #perl6
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23:13 gfldex r: role R { my $.r; }; class C does R { our $.c = LolImUndefined; }
23:13 p6eval rakudo d71ad1: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
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