Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-08-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:24 dalek std: 31d74ba | larry++ | STD.pm6:
03:24 dalek std: hash subscripts not subject to endargs
03:24 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/31d74ba1ad
03:24 dalek std: 285983f | larry++ | STD.pm6:
03:24 dalek std: don't treat % as separator when it's a sigil
03:24 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/285983f5da
03:24 dalek std: a741fac | larry++ | STD.pm6:
03:24 dalek std: recommend a ** b --> a +% b rather than a+ % b
03:24 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/a741fac32a
03:34 diakopter I haven't had a blue-screen-of-death since XP (none in Vista, none in Win7), but I just got my first one in Win8
03:35 benabik Good to know it's a step back in more than just UI design.
03:37 diakopter it's a step forward in a _lot_ of areas; I'm extremely pleased overall. (since I totally ignore the Start screen and hacked my own start menu)
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04:22 moritz \o
04:24 dalek std: b669e5c | larry++ | / (2 files):
04:24 dalek std: various snaptest cleanups
04:24 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/b669e5cf0d
04:24 dalek std: 02fbd65 | larry++ | boot/STD.pmc:
04:24 dalek std: make reboot
04:24 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/02fbd6518a
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04:26 diakopter TimToady: I noticed some json dump in viv
04:26 TimToady yaml, surely
04:26 diakopter oh yes.
04:32 ingy Y♥ML
04:34 JimmyZ just found there is old perl6 site: http://www.perl-6.org/
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04:58 dalek specs: 7c9bbf5 | larry++ | S03-operators.pod:
04:58 dalek specs: [&foo] is okay but [$foo] is too ambiguous
04:58 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7c9bbf5de1
04:59 dalek std: d96f25c | larry++ | / (2 files):
04:59 dalek std: Allow only [&foo] form, not [$foo]
04:59 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/d96f25c734
05:04 JimmyZ TimToady: looks like you revert 6aa4943b3be3a12b29264cb85db304c2e0718ece
05:05 TimToady whoops
05:06 TimToady otoh, I'm not sure I believe in the ^ -> HOW shortcut
05:07 * JimmyZ is not sure which is right too
05:09 * diakopter has been staring at a bug for a few hours, weakly attempting to trace it
05:09 TimToady oh, it was removing the fossil, so I'd better redo it
05:10 dalek specs: be2490f | larry++ | S03-operators.pod:
05:10 dalek specs: put back moritz++'s fossil removal
05:10 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/be2490fe42
05:10 TimToady JimmyZ++ too
05:13 moritz oh, did that get lost in a merge?
05:13 moritz TimToady: let me guess, you had an editor open with your changes, then you 'git pull'ed and saved S03 in your editor
05:14 moritz that seems to be the most common cause for accidentally reversing stuff
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05:15 diakopter c'mon, someone give me some magic inspiration to solve this
05:15 benabik Abracadabra!
05:15 moritz diakopter: cosmic ray!
05:15 benabik Tenser's Floating Disk!
05:16 moritz the hardest bugs are when there are two copies of the code (like, in different directories, or on different machines) and you're looking at the wrong one
05:18 JimmyZ the harder bug is that you're gdbing it, but you find it you're in wrong branch eventually.
05:19 benabik My current favorite is "the function returns the correct value, but it seems to mutate to the wrong one in memory at some random point".
05:20 diakopter moritz: the cosmic ray must've worked
05:20 moritz diakopter: \o/
05:20 benabik Always nice when cosmic rays help solve bugs instead of randomly introducing one.
05:21 diakopter I had forgotten to set an environment variable that enabled debug output
05:23 diakopter so I was staring at stable debug output for the longest time
05:23 diakopter *stale
05:24 diakopter I blame the Win8 forced reboot.
05:32 moritz diakopter++ # cosmic ray debugging
05:34 moritz nr: say (1 + 2i) < (2 + 3i)
05:34 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Complex numbers are not arithmetically ordered; use cmp if you want an arbitrary order␤  at /tmp/GOT7IoSM39 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3929 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
05:34 p6eval ..rakudo 0dd82c: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Real'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \$v, Mu *%_)␤␤  in method Real at src/gen/CORE.setting:705␤  in sub infix:<<> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2550␤  in sub infix:<<> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2550␤  in block  at /tmp/M5eEfoTv82:1␤␤»
05:34 benabik niecza++ # useful error messages
05:37 dalek doc: 65fff9b | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
05:37 dalek doc: [operators] Range operators, associativity updates
05:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/65fff9bc18
05:37 dalek doc: 30d87e2 | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
05:37 dalek doc: [operators] numeric comparison operators
05:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/30d87e27ff
05:46 dalek doc: de992b4 | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
05:46 dalek doc: [operators] start to list non-coercive multi variants too
05:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/de992b457f
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06:35 moritz nr: my $a; my $b := $a; say $b =:= $a
06:35 p6eval rakudo 0dd82c, niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«True␤»
06:38 moritz nr: my $a; sub f($x) { say $x =:= $a }; f my $b; f $a;
06:38 p6eval rakudo 0dd82c: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
06:38 p6eval ..niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $b is declared but not used at /tmp/UhKC5qtWWL line 1:â�¤------> [32my $a; sub f($x) { say $x =:= $a }; f my [33mâ��[31m$b; f $a;[0mâ�¤â�¤Falseâ�¤Falseâ�¤Â»
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07:07 moritz n: sub f($) { }; my $x; f $x
07:07 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d:  ( no output )
07:07 moritz n: sub f($) { }; f my $x
07:07 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $x is declared but not used at /tmp/e01k4IRPCF line 1:â�¤------> [32msub f($) { }; f my [33mâ��[31m$x[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
07:07 * moritz submits nieczabug
07:08 TimToady I don't think that's a bug
07:09 moritz why should the warnings differ for   my $x; f $x;   and f my $x
07:09 moritz when both do exactly the same?
07:09 TimToady no, they don't
07:09 TimToady the second one declares a name that is never used
07:09 moritz but it used
07:10 moritz it is passed to f
07:10 TimToady the value is used
07:10 TimToady $x isn't
07:10 moritz the container is used, potentially
07:10 TimToady n: sub f($) { }; f my $
07:10 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d:  ( no output )
07:10 TimToady that is the equivalent
07:10 moritz hmm
07:10 * moritz unsubmits nieczabug
07:10 TimToady the point of the message is the name, not the value
07:16 sorear n: sub f($) { }; f anon $x
07:16 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d:  ( no output )
07:16 sorear if you want to name it for documentation/debugging purposes
07:17 sorear (currently anon names are only used for functions, but this is an idea I could persue if I ever find debugger tuits, whatis $ref)
07:29 dalek doc: 0bf9571 | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
07:29 dalek doc: [operators] more chaining comparison operators
07:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0bf9571d58
07:36 sorear TimToady: what's wrong with [$fooo
07:36 sorear [?
07:36 sorear ]?
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07:53 dalek perl6.org: 6e8909f | moritz++ | source/snippets/ (5 files):
07:53 dalek perl6.org: add example snippets. Compiled by masak++ in https://gist.github.com/3324433
07:53 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/6e8909f40a
08:34 dalek rakudo/nom: e20252c | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
08:34 dalek rakudo/nom: do not Whatever-prime prefix:<^>
08:34 dalek rakudo/nom:
08:34 dalek rakudo/nom: the spec does not say it should, and niecza does not
08:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e20252c62f
08:35 dalek perl6.org: ab0620f | moritz++ | mowyw.conf:
08:35 dalek perl6.org: [mowyw.conf] do not process RFCs
08:35 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/ab0620f154
08:36 sorear moritz: I'm pretty sure niecza's list was just copied from rakudo ng
08:36 moritz sorear: :-)
08:52 moritz meh
08:52 moritz I'm trying to set up the random snippets for perl6.org with apache2 + mod_random
08:52 moritz and I simply get a 404
08:53 moritz and of course there's no debugging output or anything
09:00 moritz last commit in 2001
09:02 moritz meh, I'll just write a perl script that does it
09:10 dalek perl6.org: 18407b3 | moritz++ | source/snippet.pl:
09:10 dalek perl6.org: add CGI script for randomly serving a file
09:10 dalek perl6.org:
09:10 dalek perl6.org: mod_random simply did not work, always returned a 404
09:10 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/18407b3d1c
09:13 dalek perl6.org: 1a85052 | moritz++ | source/snippet.pl (2 files):
09:13 dalek perl6.org: make it executable
09:13 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/1a85052834
09:14 masak *yawn*
09:14 masak good morning, #perl6
09:15 moritz good antenoon, masak
09:16 * masak .oO( should have antecepated that one... )
09:16 JimmyZ 早上好,麦高
09:16 dalek perl6.org: 1ed51c4 | moritz++ | source/snippet.pl:
09:16 dalek perl6.org: fix thinko
09:16 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/1ed51c4cb1
09:16 moritz masak: http://perl6.org/snippet
09:16 sjohnson sorear: if i may ask, what is your first language?
09:17 sjohnson i'm guessing English isn't it, since I've been surprised so many times already
09:17 moritz I think American English :-)
09:17 sorear hahaha.
09:17 masak 晚上好,荣幸
09:17 masak 卓明亮
09:17 masak # New Ticket Created by 卓明亮 # Please include the string: [perl #74910] # in t...
09:17 masak 5/5/10
09:17 sorear US English is my first and only decent language
09:17 masak heh. paste fail.
09:18 masak 晚上好,荣幸卓明亮
09:18 sorear um
09:18 sorear extremely interesting - I recognize the name '卓明亮' but not the characters in it
09:18 sorear did not know my brain could do that.
09:18 * masak considers having some coffee to avoid creating further embarassment
09:19 dalek perl6.org: 4fdb255 | moritz++ | source/index.html:
09:19 dalek perl6.org: [front page] just Modules, thanks
09:19 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/4fdb255aff
09:19 masak rr*
09:19 masak moritz: re http://perl6.org/snippet -- cool.
09:20 JimmyZ heh
09:20 sjohnson sorear: everytime I ask someone, it's English, everytime I never suspect it, it's German :)
09:20 sjohnson moritz++ being a good example
09:21 sorear sjohnson: I was going to learn as much German as possible this month, but I misestimated my tuit supply and that turned out to be none.
09:21 sorear (I think I have the pronunciation/orthography rules mostly down though)
09:22 masak moritz: for some reason, I picture the way it would look on the main page: rectangular div, #3333dd background, maybe white text, rounded corners.
09:23 moritz masak: then make it that way :-)
09:23 moritz masak: fwiw there are CSS classes in the output for syntax hilighting
09:23 masak oh wow.
09:23 masak is it fine to wire it all up with jQuery ajax?
09:23 masak or do we do ajax without jQuery on the perl6.org site?
09:23 moritz without ajax please
09:24 moritz there's no need for javascript on the front page
09:24 moritz http://perlgeek.de/css/screen/syntax.css is what I use on my blog, fwiw
09:25 masak sorry, how are we meaning to randomly load and show snippets on the main page without javascript?
09:27 sorear iframe?
09:27 sorear SSI?
09:28 sorear iframe probably best
09:29 moritz SSI
09:30 sorear was that intended as a pick?
09:31 moritz yes
09:31 moritz <!--#include virtual="/snippet"-->
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09:33 moritz I'll add a    AddOutputFilter INCLUDES .html  to the virtual host config
09:37 moritz done
09:38 moritz (I don't like iframes for this, because it results in another request, and burdens the client with something that the server should do)
09:38 moritz (plus, the snippets don't a fulll HTML structure, just <pre>...</pre>)
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10:21 masak I may have time to look at doing an SSL patch later today.
10:21 spider-mario joined #perl6
10:21 masak moritz++ for laying the groundwork.
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10:25 sorear o/ masak
10:25 masak \o
10:26 masak heading offline for a few hours of extended lunch with people I don't know.
10:26 masak see you later, #perl6.
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11:03 dalek perl6.org: 73033d7 | moritz++ | source/TEMP-example.html:
11:03 dalek perl6.org: add a temporary page to test exampl snippet inclusion
11:03 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/73033d725a
11:08 moritz masak: see that new page, includes work in there
11:14 moritz ... or not
11:14 moritz looks fine when downloaded with wget
11:14 moritz but opera shows a bunch of binary data after the example
11:15 moritz chromium says "Error 330 (net::ERR_CONTENT_DECODING_FAILED): Unknown error."
11:15 moritz firefox says "The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because it uses an invalid or unsupported form of compression."
11:16 moritz must be some content negotation f*ckup
11:16 moritz 'cause wget + hexdump show that there's nothing to complain about
11:18 sorear what's the URL?
11:18 moritz sorear: http://perl6.org/TEMP-example
11:22 moritz apache seems to reply with  Content-Encoding: gzip
11:22 moritz and then 2cd
11:22 moritz then the response unencoded
11:23 moritz and then a blob, of which I suspect it might be the gzip version
11:23 sorear hehe
11:23 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
11:23 sorear I guess wget is sending different accept headers?
11:23 moritz ah no, the 2cd probably a marker from the Transfer-Encoding: chunked
11:24 sorear Accept:text/html,application/xhtml+​xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
11:24 sorear Accept-Charset:ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.3
11:24 sorear Accept-Encoding:gzip,deflate,sdch
11:24 sorear Accept-Language:en-US,en;q=0.8
11:24 sorear pulled out of chrome inspecter.
11:24 moritz aye
11:24 moritz I guess that wget dosn't send the Accept-Encoding header
11:24 sorear response was chunked+gzip
11:25 sorear (I had to pull an odd stunt to get chrome to _tell me_ that)
11:25 moritz sorear: I just started wireshark right away :-)
11:26 moritz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/temp.stream # that's what wireshark gives me, after 'Follow TCP stream' -> 'Save As'
11:27 moritz ok, now to the interesting question: how to stop apache from doing that stupid stunt?
11:27 jnthn moritz: You made a CGI script? Does it emit a Content-type header?
11:28 * jnthn guessing wildly after incomplete backlog :)
11:29 jnthn ah, http://perl6.org/snippet works well here
11:32 jnthn huh, oddness. I just got Firefox to send requests through Fiddler. Firefox says it can Accept-Encoding gzip. Then the respose that comes back has Content-encoding: gzip
11:32 jnthn (That's on http://perl6.org/TEMP-example)
11:34 jnthn The raw response is odd because it seems to have a uncompressed chunk of text (the source from the snippet script afaict) followed by some binary data
11:34 jnthn And trying to get fiddler to decode it complains that the magic number in the gzip header is incorrect.
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11:36 moritz jnthn: yes, that's the problem
11:36 moritz it seems to send chunked encoded, with one plain text chunk and one gzip chunk
11:36 moritz or maybe s:g/chunk/junk/ :-)
11:37 moritz ok, I'm now tryin the obvious and upgrading apache :-)
11:37 moritz nope, no dice
11:37 jnthn moritz: Is the unencoded chunk coming from SSI?
11:37 moritz jnthn: yes
11:38 jnthn lo.O
11:38 * jnthn would have expected it to incorporate that and *then* do the gzip stuff
11:38 moritz maybe the output filter is run after the gzip encoding? :-)
11:38 jnthn Yeah, that's what I'm wondering
11:38 jnthn But that'd be a really wtf thing to do!
11:39 * jnthn hasn't configured and apache server for > 5 years
11:41 moritz I've now removed the output filter, and instead actived the x bit hack
11:41 moritz still same problem
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11:42 * moritz disable the 'deflate' module
11:42 moritz http://perl6.org/TEMP-example now works in the browsers I've tried
11:43 moritz (ff, opera, chromium)
11:45 moritz that seems a bit LTA, but oh well, I'm not inclined to dig too deep into it
11:45 jnthn moritz: We ain't the first to see bad interactions between deflate and include in seems
11:45 jnthn https://issues.apache.org/bu​gzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17629
11:47 moritz jnthn++
11:47 moritz that example uses a redirect in the CGI
11:47 moritz which mine doesn't. But still same symptoms
11:49 moritz "On further thought, this is a much more general problem than mod_deflate."
11:49 moritz how encouraging :-)
11:51 sorear how old is our apache?
11:51 moritz ii  apache2        2.2.16-6+squee Apache HTTP Server metapackage
11:52 JimmyZ joined #perl6
11:56 sorear seems the PR17629 fix made Apache 2.2.17. http://mirror.cogentco.com/p​ub/apache//httpd/CHANGES_2.2
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12:49 arnsholt Hmm. Time to clean up some stashes in my NQP repo I think
12:50 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
13:20 arnsholt jnthn: Does Rakudo implement any of the 6model C APIs directly?
13:30 smash joined #perl6
13:30 smash hello everyone
13:31 arnsholt 'lo
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13:50 szabgab \o/
13:50 szabgab Currently I am a very frustrated Windows user
13:50 szabgab I cannot bootstrap Panda
13:51 szabgab I still get this error: http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/per​l.perl6.users/2012/07/msg1635.html
13:52 szabgab anyone with some Windows and Panda fu around?
13:52 szabgab Anyone maybe called tadzik ?
13:53 szabgab anyway, I played with the code a bit and changed the shell command in the build method of the Panda::Builder  to be
13:54 szabgab shell "perl lib/File/Find.pm"   with the hard-code file name.
13:54 szabgab That did not generate the strange error message
13:54 szabgab sorry that was perl6 of course
13:55 szabgab but if I left   "perl6 $file"  I still got the error
13:55 szabgab Other experiments showed that the 'p' in the error comes from the first letter of  the command.
13:56 colomon szabgab: I'll try to take a look at this in a few minutes, but right now I've got a snuggly three-year-old demanding to watch model railroading videos on my computer.
13:56 szabgab colomon: sure, that's how I bought my railroad set too :)
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14:10 colomon szabgab: ack, now he wants a 51 minute video. sorry!
14:12 TimToady sorear: the problem with [$foo] is that it's too likely to misparse an Array composer; had this line from roast:        unshift @c, [[$a[0], $b[0]], $a[1] + $b[1]];
14:12 szabgab :)
14:14 TimToady it had already committed to parsing as [[$a]] too deeply to backtrack out of it for some reason
14:14 TimToady and I decided it was just too ambiguous anyway
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: f126661 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ (6 files):
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Update get_attribute_ref prototype to return bit width of attribute.
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f12666107b
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: 2407c15 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Pass bits pointer to get_attribute_ref in nqp.ops.
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2407c15a43
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: 08bdce1 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/ (2 files):
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Update (functional) implementors of get_attribute_ref to return bit-width.
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num:
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Right now they are hard-coded to just return 8*sizeof(void *). I think that
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: should be a good way to return the number of bits in a machine word, but
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: probably a decision that deserves some more scrutiny.
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/08bdce1793
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: 049a630 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CStruct.c:
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Return correct number of bits in get_attribute_ref in CStruct.c.
14:14 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/049a6300ab
14:14 TimToady and one can always write [&($foo)] in that case
14:17 TimToady one is much less likely to start an array composer with & than with $
14:20 diakopter szabgab: the author of panda knows about that error
14:20 diakopter but doesn't have Windows machine to test/develop on, it seems
14:20 szabgab diakopter: you mean tadzik ?
14:21 szabgab wors cae I can grab hom at YAPC
14:21 szabgab worst case
14:21 masak I again come here.
14:22 masak (hi, #perl6)
14:22 szabgab hi masak
14:22 masak hello, szabgab.
14:22 TimToady is that how you'd say it in Swedish?
14:23 TimToady or is it just weird English? (I again come here.)
14:23 masak TimToady: no. there was a guy here over a year ago who always said that on entry. I tried to teach him more colloquial ways. :)
14:23 diakopter szabgab: whoever the author of panda is; he had me test panda bootstrap the other day and I got the same error and sent it to him but he couldn't do anything about it.
14:24 masak I don't remember his nick, but I think it was something with "Perl" in it.
14:24 masak szabgab: I've been having a mild blogger's burnout in the past two weeks. otherwise I would've already taken you up on your offer to blog for 6maven, which I think is a great initiative.
14:25 szabgab masak: sure no problem,
14:25 szabgab I am just sooo frustrated with this Windows bug
14:25 masak oh! it was "perlhack". and he said "I again come to here".
14:26 masak http://irclog.perlgeek.de/search.p​l?channel=perl6&amp;nick=perlhack
14:26 diakopter szabgab: it's probably not so much a bug as just unimplemented on Windows
14:27 szabgab diakopter: if I hardcode the same command it works but when I get it from the variables it gives this stupid error
14:28 szabgab I thought there might be some unicode issue or some invisible characters
14:28 diakopter explain hardcode
14:28 aloha positive: nothing; negative: nothing; overall: 0.
14:28 diakopter (where)
14:28 whiteknight joined #perl6
14:28 szabgab the code hase something like    shell "perl6 $file"     that gives the error
14:29 szabgab if I write   shell "perl6 lib/Find/File.pm"    it works
14:29 szabgab thought the commend is a bit longer with --targer=pir etc
14:30 masak <perlhack> i again come to here.
14:30 masak <perlhack> *IN LOVE*
14:30 masak and not once did the channel try to put him down for showing such enthusiasm over being here.
14:30 TimToady till now :)
14:30 masak even though his main purpose seemed to be to learn English rather than talk about Perl 6. :)
14:31 masak TimToady: oh, I hope I'm not saying anything which I couldn't say to his face. I think it was a nice guy.
14:31 TimToady agreed
14:31 TimToady shower &
14:32 masak I read the logs with him in it, and see him "disrupting" the whole discourse of the channel simply by being happy and chatting in extremely nonstandard English.
14:33 masak and I get the feeling that #perl6 as a channel *liked* being thus disrupted, and played along.
14:33 masak I don't know *any* other channel on any IRC network which would react that way.
14:34 masak <perlhack> Oh i am a new English person
14:35 masak that sentence makes perfect sense if you know Mandarin.
14:37 szabgab or if you are Yoda
14:37 * szabgab is still frustrated but this time with mkdir
14:38 masak what's frustrating about mkdir?
14:39 tadzik szabgab: looking for me?
14:39 masak r: my @blocks; my $i = 1; while $i <= 10 { push @blocks, { say $i }; $i++ }; .() for @blocks
14:39 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«11␤11␤11␤11␤11␤11␤11␤11␤11␤11␤»
14:40 szabgab masak: in the end that seems to be just my stupidity
14:40 szabgab tadzik: Panda bootstrap issue, if you would read the backlog
14:40 tadzik oh, panda on windows
14:40 masak szabgab: is it something we could have prevented with docs or something?
14:40 jnthn arnsholt: Which APIs are you thinking of? It has no custom REPRs, but it does in the C code use the various STABLE(...) macros etc.
14:40 szabgab masak: nope
14:41 tadzik yeah, I'm planning to take a look at that on the yapc
14:41 masak ok.
14:41 szabgab masak: I just left out a condition on a die statement and it always died :)
14:43 jnthn tadzik: I think I already suggested we could try and look at the Panda on Windows together at YAPC. :)
14:43 jnthn tadzik: If not: it'd be a Good Thing to do :)
14:44 tadzik jnthn: yep, that was the plan :)
14:44 jnthn \o/
14:45 masak szabgab: sounds like a rather benign error, overall.
14:46 szabgab I have a partial and very nasty workaround for the panda issue
14:47 tadzik partial and nasty workaround... sounds like bootstrap.pl ;)
14:47 tadzik at leat before moritz++ started hacking on it
14:49 arnsholt jnthn: No custom REPRs was my main worry
14:49 jnthn ok
14:49 arnsholt I'm working on sized ints/nums in NQP and was wondering if my changes would require keeping Rakudo in sync with the changed APIs
14:50 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
14:50 arnsholt (Ref. my latest push)
14:54 thou joined #perl6
15:00 arnsholt Although, a quick ack of the Rakudo source finds a copy of sixmodelobject.h. Is that bundled or copied from the NQP source?
15:01 not_gerd joined #perl6
15:02 not_gerd hello, #perl6
15:03 not_gerd arnsholt: re https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/049a6300ab
15:03 not_gerd that code has some portability issues
15:03 jnthn arnsholt: copied
15:04 not_gerd in particular, types with sizes > 64 bit (eg 128-bit long double), and it's not a good idea to determine alignment from bit size
15:04 not_gerd you need to invoke ALIGNOF in a place where you know the actual type of the attribute
15:05 colomon n: my $foo = -> $a, $b { say $a*$b+1; }; 4 [$foo] 5
15:05 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«21␤»
15:06 arnsholt not_gerd: Thanks for the review!
15:07 arnsholt Unfortunately, that's the place I have the best idea of what the type is. I might be able to improve it a bit more though
15:08 not_gerd if you want to be fully portable, you need to keep track of bit-width and alignment seperately
15:08 not_gerd eg x86: 80-bit long double, and accessing 64-bit double is only atomic in case of 8-byte alignment
15:08 not_gerd depending on the use case, you might drop one of these values...
15:08 arnsholt Right
15:10 arnsholt We don't handle 80 or 128 bit type ATM, but the atomicity is a good point
15:12 arnsholt Huh. Apparently I broke something num-related in QAST
15:14 not_gerd there should probably be a field align in storage_spec
15:15 not_gerd jnthn: ^^
15:20 jnthn not_gerd: Yes, I suspect there should be.
15:21 jnthn We've kinda gotten away with it so far, but now arnsholt++ has reached the point of needing to care about things where it matters.
15:22 arnsholt Tests saved my copypasta! \o/
15:23 JimmyZ joined #perl6
15:23 JimmyZ hello, not_gerd
15:23 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: 009285a | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CStruct.c:
15:23 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Turns out Parrot #defines ALIGNOF, so no need to redo it in CStruct.c.
15:23 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/009285a2cd
15:23 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: d384d49 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
15:23 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: Handle bit widths in nqp.ops.
15:23 dalek nqp/dyncall-sized-num: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d384d49fbe
15:28 kaare_ joined #perl6
15:29 * JimmyZ sleeps
15:29 JimmyZ good night all
15:33 masak 晚安,卓明亮
15:46 colomon std: my $foo = -> $a, $b { say $a*$b+1; }; 4 [$foo] 5
15:46 p6eval std d96f25c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a row at /tmp/R9iW6ggHZO line 1:â�¤------> [32my $foo = -> $a, $b { say $a*$b+1; }; 4 [[33mâ��[31m$foo] 5[0mâ�¤    expecting infix or meta-infixâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 44mâ�¤Â»
15:53 colomon n: my &foo = -> $a, $b { say $a*$b+1; }; 4 [&foo] 5
15:53 p6eval niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«21␤»
15:53 colomon s: my &foo = -> $a, $b { say $a*$b+1; }; 4 [&foo] 5
15:54 colomon std: my &foo = -> $a, $b { say $a*$b+1; }; 4 [&foo] 5
15:54 p6eval std d96f25c: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 47m␤»
15:55 MayDaniel joined #perl6
16:11 benabik joined #perl6
16:12 * skids sees the 11-venn diagram on /. and wonders if there are 2048 consecutive unicode codepoints that have distinct glyphs :-)
16:33 q0tw4 joined #perl6
16:34 not_gerd left #perl6
16:45 TimToady std: 1 [&atan2] 1
16:45 p6eval std d96f25c: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
16:54 felher Hey folks. Any special hints where to stay the night while attending yapc::eu in Frankfurt? Otherwise i will just search for a normal $hotel.
16:56 masak felher: http://www.booking.com/hotel/de/imperial-n​ovum-frankfurt-messe-am-palmengarten.html?​aid=304142&amp;label=postbooking_confemail
16:56 masak felher: pmichaud, jnthn, and I are staying there.
17:03 felher masak: thanks :). Thats a bit too pricy for me, though. But booking.com seems to have some cheaper hotels which are in my prace range :)
17:04 moritz maybe tadzik++ has already figured out something more budget-y
17:04 moritz and wasn't there some website where you can search for private accomodation?
17:05 jeffreykegler I've a question about rule/regex/token syntax
17:05 jeffreykegler Is the "::=" syntax available or used anywhere?
17:06 masak in rules?
17:06 jeffreykegler I'm thinking of doing a Perl 6-ish interface for Marpa (a parser I've written), and most of my user base likes "::="
17:06 crab2313 joined #perl6
17:07 jeffreykegler masak: Rules are often written lhs ::= rhs , where perl 6 seems to be regex lhs { rhs }
17:08 masak right.
17:08 moritz ::= is used in mainline (non-regex) Perl 6 for binding-and-make-readonly
17:08 masak I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, though.
17:08 masak moritz++
17:09 * moritz isn't sure if he answered the question
17:09 * masak would really like heredocs in Rakudo
17:09 moritz ::= looks more like EBNF, not Perl 6 rules :-)
17:09 * geekosaur suspects the question is "can I use EBNF as a DSL"... that
17:09 jeffreykegler moritz: actually you answered my question and my next two as well
17:10 jeffreykegler moritz: in which synopsis could I find out more about the current use of "::=" in Perl 6
17:10 moritz jeffreykegler: S03, I think
17:11 jeffreykegler moritz: thanks
17:11 moritz S03:2292, :C<< infix:<::=> >>, bind and make readonly
17:11 moritz it's what signature binding uses
17:11 moritz sub f($x) { }; my $a; f($a);
17:11 moritz performs something like $x ::= $a at call time
17:12 jeffreykegler moritz: Let me go read up -- you're getting way ahead of me
17:12 moritz food &
17:13 jeffreykegler Where I am going is that I'd like to have my interface look both like Perl 6 and EBNF -- I'll need to think this out.  Thanks
17:17 topo Hello, #perl6. Who should I talk to about a commit bit for perl6-examples?
17:27 mhasch joined #perl6
17:27 felher tadzik: if you know someting cheap, i apreciate it if you let me know :) Otherwise i will just pick one of the alternatives of booking.com, which don't seem to bad :)
17:28 mhasch o/ perl6 gang
17:29 masak mhasch! \o/
17:42 tadzik felher: me and leont are staying in Sophien Hotel
17:43 tadzik it's about 500m from the venue and about 50 EUR per night I think
17:43 moritz tadzik: me, for example. What's your github ID?
17:43 moritz erm, meant topo. Sorry
17:43 moritz topo: what's your github ID?
17:43 topo geekface. :P
17:43 felher tadzik: okay, thanks a lot :)
17:44 tadzik oh, oh
17:44 tadzik if you have a credit card that they don't immediately reject, please let me know :)
17:45 moritz topo: you now have a commit bit (as well as to some other perl6 repos, because we can't be bothered to make permissions more fine grained)
17:45 topo moritz: Oh, awesome. Thanks!
17:45 moritz topo: have fun!
17:45 topo Will do. o7
17:58 felher tadzik: I haven't decied yet. I might be staying at a friend's apartment in a student dorm. But I don't know if that will work out until tomorrow. And if it doesn't I need a backup plan :) But if i'm going to stay at your hotel and they don't reject my card i let you know :)
18:05 tadzik ok, thanks
18:11 moritz nr: say (1 ^^ 1).perl
18:11 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
18:11 p6eval ..niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in type Any␤  at /tmp/np_OaLOIYQ line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3929 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3930 (module-CORE @ 564…
18:13 fhelmberger joined #perl6
18:16 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
18:20 benabik joined #perl6
18:27 snearch joined #perl6
18:35 dalek doc: cb36b25 | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
18:35 dalek doc: [operators] &&, ||, //, min, max, item =, =>, not, so
18:35 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cb36b25010
18:39 DarthGandalf joined #perl6
18:44 dalek niecza: 856e494 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/STD.pm6:
18:44 dalek niecza: Remove [$foo] infixed function form as per TimToady++'s recent spec and std changes.
18:44 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/856e4947ae
18:52 moritz nr: say (1, 2 Z <a b c> Z <+ ->).perl
18:52 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«((1, "a", "+"), (2, "b", "-")).list␤»
18:52 p6eval ..niecza v19-15-g051783d: OUTPUT«(1, "a", "+", 2, "b", "-").list␤»
18:53 masak rakudo++
18:59 moritz r: say (1..3 X <a b> X 'c').perl
18:59 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«((ListIter.new(),), (ListIter.new(),), (ListIter.new(),), (ListIter.new(),), (ListIter.new(),), (ListIter.new(),)).list␤»
18:59 moritz r: say (1..3 X <a b> X 'c')
18:59 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«1 a c 1 b c 2 a c 2 b c 3 a c 3 b c␤»
19:04 dalek doc: fae19c3 | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
19:04 dalek doc: [operators] ,, :, Z, X
19:04 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fae19c3920
19:11 benabik joined #perl6
19:15 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
19:16 colomon masak: I'm off vacation again.  You're not allowed to find Niecza bugs faster than I can fix them!  ;)
19:17 masak heh.
19:17 moritz fwiw I'm now at a point where I want to refactor htmlify.pl
19:17 masak moritz: why?
19:18 moritz currently I have several hashes where I store stuff, and I'm starting to get confused what hash holds what
19:18 moritz for example, I want to do lookup by "type" (if it's a type, a routine, an operator, a language doc)
19:19 moritz sometimes I want the Pod DOM tree
19:19 moritz sometimes I want the URLs
19:19 masak you should call that "kind" or something, not "type", since type is a kind of "type" :)
19:19 moritz "kind" is good
19:20 moritz currently I'm at a bit of a loss on how to do all those kinds of lookups efficiently
19:20 benabik In CS theory a "kind" is basically a type for a type.
19:20 moritz how very kind of the CS folks :-)
19:20 masak :P
19:20 masak right. I saw that usage in Haskell.
19:21 masak Wikipedia. "Kind (type theory), the type of types in a type system". yo dawg.
19:21 moritz funny, then I'll have 'kind' and 'subkind'
19:21 moritz for example if 'kind' is 'type', then 'subkind' can be class/role/grammar/enum
19:22 moritz or if 'kind' is routine, then 'subkind' can be 'sub', 'method'
19:25 masak go for it.
19:26 dalek niecza: 07dcc9e | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
19:26 dalek niecza: infix:<eqv> should be equal only if the two operands are of the same type.
19:26 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/07dcc9e461
19:27 masak colomon++ # fixing bugs
19:28 colomon masak: re neiczabug #142, are there any tests in roast?  As far as I can tell I fixed the bug, but I didn't get any additional passing tests.
19:29 * colomon is adding one now
19:32 dalek roast: 52a1f79 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/eqv.t:
19:32 dalek roast: Add test for Nieczabug #142, !(4 eqv 4.0)
19:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/52a1f79d48
19:32 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
19:34 dalek roast: 43e72e3 | moritz++ | S03-operators/eqv.t:
19:34 dalek roast: [eqv.t] another type difference test
19:34 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/43e72e3aba
19:41 snearch joined #perl6
19:47 moritz nr: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.push: 5
19:47 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-19-g856e494: OUTPUT«1 2 3 5␤»
19:48 masak nr: my %h = 1..4; say @a.push: 5 => 'bar';
19:48 p6eval niecza v19-19-g856e494: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/q5tqQlzXoN line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy %h = 1..4; say [33mâ��[31m@a.push: 5 => 'bar';[0mâ�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  %h is declared but not used at /tmp/q5tqQlzXoN line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy …
19:48 p6eval ..rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @a is not declared␤at /tmp/rq_doOSGVW:1␤»
19:48 masak nr: my %h = 1..4; say %h.push: 5 => 'bar';
19:48 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«("1" => 2, "3" => 4, "5" => "bar").hash␤»
19:48 p6eval ..niecza v19-19-g856e494: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding '$key' in 'Hash.array-push'; got Int, needed Str␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (Hash.array-push @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1884 (Hash.push @ 25) ␤  at /t…
19:48 masak colomon: look, another one! :P
19:48 colomon :p
19:48 colomon dammit, I've got to do $work, too!
19:49 masak I could just submit it to the issue list and you could get to it later.
19:50 colomon please
19:50 colomon errr... anyone know why svn dumps would suddenly balloon in size and then go back down again?
19:53 colomon like, most of my complete dumps are around 500M in size, slowly growing bigger, but for three  weeks in the last two months it's been more like 2.4 gigs?
19:55 * masak submits nieczue
19:55 * masak writes `.print($document) and .close given open('talk.html', :w);` and feels pretty good about using statement_mod:given in that way
19:56 colomon oooo!  the big ones are not gzipped properly
19:56 masak oh, but we have that slurp opposite now!
19:56 masak what's its name again?
19:56 arnsholt splurt?
19:56 arnsholt Something like that
19:57 moritz spurt
19:57 * moritz uses it in htmlify
19:57 * masak uses it for the first time o/
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: 6e06b33 | moritz++ | lib/Perl6/Documentable.pm:
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: Perl6::Documentable skeleton
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6e06b339fd
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: 05d0485 | moritz++ | lib/Perl6/Documentable.pm:
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: flesh out Documentable a bit
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/05d04857bd
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: eecc292 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: introduce Perl6::Documentable::Registry, and start to populate it. No way to retrieve those objects yet
19:59 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/eecc2923ce
20:04 moritz r: say (*."uc"()).('a')
20:04 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«A␤»
20:04 moritz \o/
20:04 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
20:08 masak that's crazy. crazy, I tell you.
20:09 masak rn: say { ."$_"() }('uc')
20:09 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«UC␤»
20:09 moritz I have a nice use case for it
20:09 moritz method grouped-by(Str $what) {
20:09 moritz @!documentables.classify(*."$what"());
20:09 moritz }
20:09 * masak .oO( a nice uc case )
20:11 masak moritz: that trips my injection alarms, though. but you're probably aware of the risks.
20:11 moritz masak: aye
20:11 masak "Hey hey, I've got this list of objects that I'm willing to run arbitrary code on! Just tell me what to run! Come on!" :P
20:12 jnthn Call an arbitrary method on :)
20:12 masak right.
20:13 masak but we have quite a bunch of methods on our Cool objects.
20:13 masak though these may not be Cool, I dunno.
20:16 arnsholt jnthn: A Perl 6 int8 would be backed by a P6int REPR, right?
20:18 jnthn arnsholt: Yes
20:18 jnthn arnsholt: The .bits isn't meant to be hardcoded
20:18 jnthn arnsholt: You'll note there's already some native_size stuff in place, it's just not considered by the REPR yet.
20:19 arnsholt Ah, cool. I hadn't really gotten further than noting that P6int was likely the right one and that it had hardcoded .bits =)
20:20 thou prn: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A $a .= new.foo;
20:20 p6eval niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/J0sWSYjJij line 1:â�¤------> [32mA { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A [33mâ��[31m$a .= new.foo;[0mâ�¤â�¤Foo!â�¤Â»
20:20 p6eval ..rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/7x7OEuUesF:1␤»
20:20 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«Foo!␤»
20:20 thou ^ rakudobug?
20:21 jnthn On on earth is that parsed?
20:21 jnthn std: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A $a .= new.foo;
20:21 p6eval std d96f25c: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
20:21 pmichaud ...why do the yapc::eu t-shirts have trashcan icons on them...?  http://blogs.perl.org/users/yapceurope_2012​/assets_c/2012/08/IMG_4403%5B1%5D-880.html
20:21 jnthn hmmm
20:21 masak pmichaud! \o/
20:22 jnthn I'm wondering if it parses as
20:22 jnthn (class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A $a .= new).foo
20:22 jnthn n: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; say (my A $a .= new.foo);
20:22 p6eval niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/NsCAi8hNTx line 1:â�¤------> [32method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; say (my A [33mâ��[31m$a .= new.foo);[0mâ�¤â�¤Foo!â�¤Trueâ�¤Â»
20:22 jnthn n: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A $a .= new.foo; say $a
20:22 p6eval niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«Foo!␤A.new(...)␤»
20:23 jnthn Yeah
20:23 thou prn: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A $a .= new().foo;
20:23 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/fc3hH_uQrn:1␤»
20:23 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«Foo!␤»
20:23 p6eval ..niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/V6GAlCpxVn line 1:â�¤------> [32mA { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A [33mâ��[31m$a .= new().foo;[0mâ�¤â�¤Foo!â�¤Â»
20:23 jnthn pmichaud: Is it...a trashcan or a drink class?
20:23 masak std: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }}; my A $a .= new.foo
20:23 p6eval std d96f25c: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
20:23 jnthn or...something else...huh :)
20:24 pmichaud jnthn: if there's ambiguity, then it means some people will see it as a trashcan.  :-)
20:24 jnthn s/class/glass/
20:24 jnthn pmichaud: Evidently :P
20:24 masak "mountains, onions... and trash!"
20:24 pmichaud then, of course, the other question is.... why is there a big "5" numeral on the yellow shirts?  ;-)
20:25 masak the fiver conspiracy! it has begun!
20:25 jnthn OH, they're mountains? I had that one as cathedral...
20:25 * moritz starts to wonder if the organizers see it as YAP5C::EU
20:25 masak jnthn: it might be a cathedral :)
20:25 masak jnthn: then maybe the trashcan is a bazaar :P
20:25 thou jnthn, i was looking for a way to avoid writing:  my A $a = A.new.foo;
20:26 jnthn thou: That isn't what the code you wrote is doing.
20:26 masak thou: I think the '.= new.foo' syntax should either be disallowed, or mean 'A $a = A.new.foo'.
20:26 * pmichaud ponders a blog post about YAP5C::EU.
20:26 moritz isn't that the Römer? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki​/R%C3%B6mer_%28Frankfurt%29
20:27 masak moritz: dude, the Römer looks nothing like a trashcan.
20:27 masak show some respect :P
20:27 jnthn pmichaud: We don't know that there ain't 6 shirts too :)
20:27 thou r: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; }; method bar() { say "Bar." }}; my A $a = A.new.foo; $a.bar;
20:27 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«Foo!␤Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'A' but got 'Bool'␤  in block  at /tmp/A9tjB1JJha:1␤␤»
20:27 moritz masak: I meant the mount^Wcathedral :-)
20:27 pmichaud I wonder if we're being set up for an ambush.  :-P
20:28 jnthn .oO( It isn't an 'ambush, it's a bacon tree! )
20:28 thou right, forgot my return self;
20:29 * pmichaud asks $wife to give her opinion on the shirts.
20:29 sorear good * #perl6
20:30 thou nrp: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; return self; }; method bar() { say "Bar." }}; my A $a .= new.foo; $a.bar;
20:30 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/TKFTMXpqZJ:1␤»
20:30 p6eval ..niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e, pugs: OUTPUT«Foo!␤Bar.␤»
20:30 adam7504 joined #perl6
20:30 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: f4e236d | moritz++ | lib/Perl6/Documentable/Registry.pm:
20:30 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: more random Perl6::Documentable::Registry hackery
20:30 dalek doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f4e236d5b3
20:30 thou nrp: class A { method foo() { say "Foo!"; return self; }; method bar() { say "Bar." }}; my A $a = A.new.foo; $a.bar;
20:30 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e, pugs: OUTPUT«Foo!␤Bar.␤»
20:31 pmichaud Paula says:  "It looks like 'Our women have three breasts; their breath smells like onion, and our lives are trash.'"
20:31 masak :P
20:31 jnthn :D
20:31 thou ow
20:31 moritz Paula++
20:31 masak pmichaud: additional opinion. some people would probably put "Perl >>>FIVE<<<" on a shirt and mean nothing offensive/mean by it.
20:32 masak I used the >>>> <<<< because IRC doesn't do font-size: 1000%
20:32 moritz many people discriminate without meaning offense, and still offend others
20:32 masak my biggest beef with the yellow shirt is that it looks like a soccer player's shirt. :)
20:33 jnthn masak: Just do a huge ascii-art 5 :P
20:33 moritz I guess that's the idea :-)
20:33 moritz (soccer t-shirt)
20:33 masak "Hey, coder boy! Your soccer shirt is the wrong way around!"
20:33 masak "Number goes on the back!"
20:34 pmichaud That *is* the back.
20:34 pmichaud compare the tag location on the other shirts.
20:34 masak oh!
20:34 masak phew, then the jocks won't tease us. :P
20:34 sorear soccer?  why is masak using such a blatant US-English-ism?
20:34 jnthn I know. It's *football*.
20:35 jnthn :P
20:35 masak fairy nuff.
20:35 masak the three comments on the shirts post are positive. http://blogs.perl.org/users/yapceurope_2012/2​012/08/the-conference-t-shirts.html#comments
20:35 pmichaud I might need to bring a sharpie with me to alter the "5"  :-P
20:35 masak :D
20:36 pmichaud or, maybe I'll just create my own yapc::eu shirt and bring it with me :)
20:36 masak pmichaud: you're my hero.
20:37 colomon pmichaud: put them up at an online store?
20:37 * colomon wonders if TimToady++ needs a "Perl 1" option...
20:37 moritz Perl 1..6
20:38 pmichaud if you're going to yapc::eu and want a P6-ified t-shirt, /msg or email me your t-shirt size.
20:38 pmichaud I'm not sure I can get them done before leaving on wednesday, but if I can I'll bring them to .eu
20:38 moritz or maybe "Perl ^6" for TimToady++
20:38 pmichaud yes, I can create a big "1" version for TimToady
20:38 pmichaud or yes, "^6"
20:38 moritz considering that he started with Perl 0, and 6 isn't quite there, ^6 seems to fit very well
20:39 pmichaud although really it should be ^7 .
20:39 moritz nr: say 6.3 ~~  ^7
20:39 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:39 pmichaud also let me know what color you want.
20:39 pmichaud and I'm going to change the trashcan to a beer stein
20:39 sorear attempted to read moritz' link.  Wondering if people who actually know German are as amused by the proximity of Rathaus to Ratte(n?)haus
20:39 masak \o/
20:40 moritz sorear: not usually. "Rathaus" is a verycommon term in German
20:40 moritz s/very//
20:41 jnthn After all, we get by in English without noticing that politics => poli (many) tics (blood sucking creatures) :P
20:42 masak sorear: users of a language generally have methods to disambiguate proportionally to how confusable two terms are. :)
20:46 thou rn: class A {}; sub foo(A *@a) { say "I got ", +@a }; foo(A.new);
20:46 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@a'; expected Positional but got Array instead␤  in sub foo at /tmp/MSw_qc79Wd:1␤  in block  at /tmp/MSw_qc79Wd:1␤␤»
20:46 p6eval ..niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«I got 1␤»
20:46 thou ^ rakudobug?
20:46 thou rn: class A {}; sub foo(*@a) { say "I got ", +@a }; foo(A.new);
20:46 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«I got 1␤»
20:47 masak thou: it might be Rakudo is correct (but LTA), and you can't type slurpy arrays.
20:47 masak ISTR such a rakudobug.
20:47 pmichaud should I keep the mysterious eight-bit mountain/cathedral/other icon or replace it with something else also?  Maybe an 8-bit camelia?
20:48 jnthn I'm not even sure you can type slurpy arrays.
20:48 jnthn We should probably say so though
20:48 jnthn pmichaud: ooh :)
20:48 * jnthn goes for a short walk
20:48 masak 8-bit camelia ftw
20:49 pmichaud Done.
20:49 pmichaud well, if I can get the shirts printed in time :)
20:50 pmichaud if not, they'll go up on spreadshirt/cafepress/zazzle somehow.
20:50 masak \o/
20:52 UncleFester6 joined #perl6
20:52 thou hmm. is there a nice way to write some sub that takes 0-many Foo like foo($foo1, foo2) (sub foo(Foo *@foos) {})  instead of writing foo([$foo1, $foo2]) (sub foo(Foo @foos) {})?
20:52 UncleFester6 cosimo: ping
20:53 pmichaud heh.  Maybe TimToady's shirt should have a big asterisk instead of the number.  :-)
20:53 pmichaud or perhaps he gets the colon again.  :-P
20:55 cognominal joined #perl6
20:57 moritz thou: I didn't quite understand the question. Are you looking for slurpies?
20:57 moritz sub foo(*@foos) { 0
20:57 moritz s/0/}/
20:57 thou moritz: typed slurpies
20:57 thou so i get a compile error if $foo1 isn't a Foo
21:00 not_gerd joined #perl6
21:00 not_gerd hello again, #perl6
21:00 not_gerd that trashcan is as "Geripptes", btw: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/com​mons/6/6b/Apfelwein_Geripptes_Bembel.jpg
21:03 masak phenny: de en "geripptes"?
21:03 phenny masak: "ribbed" (de to en, translate.google.com)
21:03 masak for your pleasure.
21:05 pmichaud I'm afk for a while.
21:11 seldon joined #perl6
21:14 not_gerd joined #perl6
21:14 * masak .oO( was it something I said? ) :P
21:26 jnthn moritz: In Exception.pm, I see:
21:26 jnthn if X::Comp.ACCEPTS($e) || is_runtime($ex.backtrace) {
21:26 jnthn My intuitive understanding is that X::Comp errors are compile time, but here it's in the check looking for runtime errors.
21:26 jnthn What am I missing? :)
21:30 sorear jnthn: eval mayb?
21:31 jnthn sorear: Yeah, I thought that...I just don't grok how it differentiates between X::Comp's that happen at compile time vs runtime
21:45 felher pmichaud++ #for his effort to get us perl6 shirts :)
21:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: 146f0c9 | coke++ | / (3 files):
21:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: today
21:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/146f0c92d2
21:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: 7f90694 | coke++ | / (4 files):
21:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: today
21:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/7f90694431
22:10 not_gerd left #perl6
22:10 masak maybe there are some people who haven't seen https://plus.google.com/u/0/110981​030061712822816/posts/KaSKeg4vQtz yet.
22:10 masak it's a good read -- I recommend it.
22:11 masak (Steve Yegge divides the programming world into conservatives and liberals.)
22:18 masak 'night, #perl6
22:19 felher o/ masak
22:25 PacoAir joined #perl6
22:27 * [Coke] notes some failures in niecza and rakudo's latest spectest runs.
22:40 colomon [Coke]: sorry about that, I've had my niecza with extra hacks in it for a few weeks, and so haven't been doing much to clean up roast issues.
22:47 [Coke] colomon: no worries.
23:24 ChoHag Does perl6 have a structure (or a relatively straightforward way to implement a structure) which is like cons cells?
23:26 ChoHag The main differences from a regular array being the ability to share part of the tail (not just a copy), and (though I've yet to see why it's useful) the ability for the final pointer to the next cons cell to contain a value instead.
23:26 japhb ChoHag, pairs can be used as cons cells.
23:26 phenny japhb: 11 Aug 06:48Z <sorear> tell japhb I screwed up those microbenchmarks.  Doing it less improperly, untyped arrays are only twice as slow for integer data
23:27 ChoHag But that just implements my own SLL.
23:27 japhb r: ((a => 2) => (b => 5)).perl.say
23:27 p6eval rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«"a" => 2 => "b" => 5␤»
23:27 TimToady n: ((a => 2) => (b => 5)).perl.say
23:27 p6eval niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«"a" => 2 => "b" => 5␤»
23:27 ChoHag Which I can do, sure, but it seems best to let perl handle the majority of the listy goodness.
23:28 TimToady hmm
23:28 japhb ChoHag, You asked if we have cons cells, which we effectively do.  Did you mean to ask if we have a linked list with shared nodes as a built-in primitive?
23:28 benabik rn: (a=>(2=>(b=>5))).perl.say
23:28 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«"a" => 2 => "b" => 5␤»
23:29 benabik No attention to precedence.  Ah, well.
23:29 ChoHag Both.
23:29 ChoHag Though I'm not sure who this we is...
23:29 japhb benabik, I think it's probably just LTA .perl methods for pairs
23:30 japhb we := the community of Perl 6 users.  :-)
23:30 benabik japhb: Yes.  Pair.perl pays no attention to precedence.  Although this is something of a more general problem
23:31 TimToady .perl should obviously be paying attention to precedence
23:31 TimToady and associativity
23:32 TimToady benabik: but pairs are right associative, so your parens are unnecessary there
23:32 ChoHag So do we have such a LL type?
23:32 TimToady intentionally, I might add, so that => is essentially a cons
23:33 benabik TimToady: Well there should have been parens for one of us.
23:33 benabik rn: (((a => 2) => b) => 5).perl.say
23:33 p6eval niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤     'b' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1402 (die @ 5) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) â�¤  at /home/p…
23:33 p6eval ..rakudo e20252: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&b' called (line 1)␤»
23:33 benabik rn: (((a => 2) => 'b') => 5).perl.say
23:33 p6eval rakudo e20252, niecza v19-20-g07dcc9e: OUTPUT«"a" => 2 => "b" => 5␤»
23:35 TimToady .key is CAR and .value is CDR, basically
23:39 ChoHag Perl people are much friendlier than Lisp people.
23:40 TimToady usually :)
23:41 * japhb glares at Google+ for wasting over 200 pixels of vertical space above the Yegge article with a bunch of stuff pinned in place (so I can't even scroll it away)
23:41 whiteknight joined #perl6
23:41 TimToady Lisp folks have this idea of perfection that we are mostly immune to, since we know Perl is a hodgepodge of many different ideas
23:42 ChoHag Indeed.
23:42 ChoHag As I keep telling people - perl is shit.
23:42 ChoHag Just not as much as everything else.
23:42 ChoHag I like the way someone (Larry?) likened it to English, which is just ... awful.
23:43 benabik To paraphrase Churchill: "Perl is the worst programming language, except for all the others that have been tried."
23:43 TimToady indeed, English itself has over 300 grammar rules
23:43 japhb Now, now, ChoHag, Perl is *fertilizer*.  High-grade fertilizer at that.  ;-)
23:43 ChoHag I tried to explain to a colleague the other day why writing code the way I think rather than the way the computer thinks is so much faster.
23:44 ChoHag He just went on about whitespace and strict types.
23:45 ChoHag Doesn't implementing a LL with the Pair type waste space?
23:45 TimToady that's the one way Python culture is more like Lisp culture
23:45 diakopter moritz: I need another cosmic ray
23:45 ChoHag 99% of the time I don't care that the .CDR is just a pointer to the next cell.
23:45 ChoHag s/space/space & time/
23:45 TimToady which is why Perl lists don't do that
23:46 TimToady or if they do, it's beneath the abstraction layer
23:46 TimToady (but they don't)Z
23:46 ChoHag Is there some way I can have perl lists share the back end of their data structure?
23:46 ChoHag In perl 5 parlance, a reference to the nth item?
23:46 benabik Implement ropes?
23:46 TimToady no, that's the downside
23:47 ChoHag benabik: Is that your way of saying 'not yet'?
23:47 TimToady but we should be able to have alternate implementations of lists that can support it
23:47 TimToady yes, not yet
23:47 ChoHag heh :)
23:47 ChoHag I have been extremely impatient for perl 6.
23:48 TimToady nobody's been more impatient than the people working on it :)
23:48 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
23:49 TimToady the other thing to say about cons lists is that it actively *prevents* parallelization of lists
23:50 benabik ChoHag: Ropes are, basically, somewhere halfway between cons lists and arrays.  It's a tree-like structure to support simple slicing and sharing in the way you describe.
23:50 TimToady Guy Steele noticed this and was trying to do something about it Fortress; we're doing the same, with a bit less fanfare
23:50 benabik ChoHag: This is not a core part of Perl6, but you could certainly write it with the given fetaures.
23:52 TimToady we find it much more powerful to hide the linkage under the list abstraction, and then it's trivial to express parallel operations
23:52 TimToady (whether or not the machine actually takes advantage)
23:54 gongyiliao joined #perl6

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