IRC log for #perl6, 2012-08-14

Time	Nick	Message
00:08	* diakopter	spent a lot of time on this a few years ago: https://alioth.debian.org/trac[…]410/biginteger.js
00:09	diakopter	(and this) http://shootout.alioth.debian.[…]gits&lang=v8&id=1
00:09	diakopter	unfortunately it's extremely slow compared to the other languages
00:15	lichtkind	ahoj #perl6
00:16	japhb_	diakopter, the first of those two links triggers an evil website warning in Firefox
00:16	diakopter	I noticed that too
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00:17	diakopter	but... I'm pretty certain there are no javascript exploits in that code, since I touched every line and have no idea about any exploits. here, I'll gist it for you:
00:17	benabik	http://safebrowsing.clients.go[…]lechrome&hl=en-US
00:17	benabik	Probably because alioth is too liberal in comment contents or something.
00:18	diakopter	weird
00:18	diakopter	https://gist.github.com/3345041
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00:35	dalek	niecza: c86e8e5 \| (Solomon Foster)++ \| lib/CORE.setting:
00:35	dalek	niecza: When pushing a Pair onto a Hash, convert the key to a Str.
00:35	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/c86e8e555d
01:07	diakopter	most of the other languages use gmp or some other bigint library (like the built-in one in ghc)
01:14	dalek	doc: 45793f0 \| (Tim Smith)++ \| lib/ (9 files):
01:14	dalek	doc: Normalize use of X<>, L<>, and C<> somewhat
01:14	dalek	doc:
01:14	dalek	doc: In particular, change some X<foo> to L<foo>.
01:14	dalek	doc:
01:14	dalek	doc: Not all L<foo> are generating working links yet; this is something for
01:14	dalek	doc: future commits to handle. When a term is used frequently in a region of
01:14	dalek	doc: text, the first occurrance is usually linked (with L<foo>), and later
01:14	dalek	doc: ones are marked as code (C<foo>) or emphasized (I<foo>) as appropriate.
01:14	dalek	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/45793f0203
01:19	dalek	doc: 94bc5b0 \| (Tim Smith)++ \| .gitignore:
01:19	dalek	doc: Ignore html/op
01:19	dalek	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/94bc5b0d23
01:29	diakopter	[Coke]: the reason I said I found it hard to imagine it was a problem with PASM is: why would parrot accept invalid bytecode or bytecode that would make it segfault? PASM compiles to bytecode, right? So either the bytecode validator is missing something, there is no bytecode validator, or on amd64 parrot has a problem with the program represented by the bytecode from that PASM.
01:30	benabik	diakopter: I don't think there's a validator.
01:31	diakopter	oh :)
01:34	diakopter	it's just.. how could changing a constant integer value by 1 in the program make it segfault
01:36	sorear	diakopter: context?
01:38	diakopter	oh, primes.pasm in parrot's examples/benchmarks - 17619 works, 17620 segfaults
01:38	diakopter	and anything I tried above 17620
01:38	sorear	17620 isn't a prime
01:38	diakopter	on amd64 linux, and amd64 windows
01:38	diakopter	who said it was a prime?
01:39	diakopter	I found it by bisecting
01:39	sorear	how did you put 17619 into primes.pasm?
01:39	diakopter	line 26
01:40	diakopter	set P2
01:40	diakopter	rurban said he couldn't reproduce it on 32-bit
01:40	sorear	my guess is that 17619 is the first number that triggers a garbage collection, and running imcc over pasm files corrupts memory in a way that crashes the GC when run on 64-bit
01:41	sorear	as far as I know PASM is unused and unmaintained
01:41	diakopter	well, it could easily be translated to a PIR version
01:42	sorear	I wonder if the PIR version also segfaults
01:42	diakopter	.. that's what I was saying :P
01:46	* diakopter	stares at 1600 lines of completely un-run/un-tested code
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03:35	benabik	Converting it to PIR is... pretty darn simple.
03:36	benabik	https://gist.github.com/3346083
03:36	benabik	That's not the way PIR code is normally written, but it's perfectly valid.
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04:02	diakopter	benabik: it doesn't run for me; error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected IDENTIFIER, expecting '\n' ('main') in file 'primes.pir' line 20
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04:10	benabik	diakopter: Strange. Runs for me... Even after copy/pasting back from gist.
04:13	TimToady	masak++ for the idea to add http://rosettacode.org/mw/inde[…]ringe&rcid=146944
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04:17	diakopter	benabik: I'm confused - your gist is PIR?
04:17	benabik	diakopter: Yes.
04:17	benabik	diakopter: The difference between PIR and PASM are fairly small.
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04:50	pmichaud	.u ✌
04:50	phenny	U+270C VICTORY HAND (✌)
04:51	sorear	o/ pmichaud
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05:21	jeffreykegler	r: grammar g; regex r { a }; say 'a' ~~ m/<r>/
05:21	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«No such method 'r' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤ in regex at /tmp/em8ZxKwFEX:1␤ in method match at src/gen/CORE.setting:4009␤ in block at /tmp/em8ZxKwFEX:1␤␤»
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05:22	jeffreykegler	What's the problem here? Why doesn't it find subrule <r>?
05:23	TimToady	well, that's kinda like calling a method without a self
05:24	TimToady	grammar g { regex r { a } }; g.parse('a', :rule('r')).say
05:24	TimToady	nr: grammar g { regex r { a } }; g.parse('a', :rule('r')).say
05:24	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤␤»
05:24	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
05:25	TimToady	.parse is a constructor for a current parse
05:25	jeffreykegler	Gotcha
05:25	TimToady	a "Cursor"
05:26	jeffreykegler	Is there a cleaner syntax to define regexes on the fly and apply them?
05:26	TimToady	nr: my regex r { a }; say 'a' ~~ / <&r> /
05:26	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤␤»
05:26	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
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05:27	jeffreykegler	r: my regex r { a }; say 'a' ~~ / <&r> /
05:27	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤␤»
05:27	TimToady	nr: my $r = rx /a/; say 'a' ~~ / <$r> /
05:27	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&rx' called (line 1)␤»
05:27	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
05:28	TimToady	nr: my $r = rx/a/; say 'a' ~~ / <$r> /
05:28	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤␤»
05:28	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
05:28	TimToady	I guess rakudo doesn't like the space there
05:29	jeffreykegler	Gotcha
05:29	pmichaud	rakudo likes the space fine; it just thinks that 'rx' is no longer a quote token then.
05:29	TimToady	anyway, an assertion with a sigil is whatever scope the symbol is, while <r> is class scoped to the grammar
05:30	TimToady	r: say q /foo/
05:30	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«foo␤»
05:30	TimToady	treats that differently then
05:30	jeffreykegler	Yeah, but for, say, a command line the bare <r> sure looks nicer
05:30	pmichaud	TimToady: yeah, checking.
05:31	pmichaud	TimToady: yes, they're getting treated differently (and shouldn't).
05:31	TimToady	r: my $r = rx:i/a/; say 'a' ~~ / <$r> /
05:31	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤␤»
05:31	TimToady	r: my $r = rx :i/a/; say 'a' ~~ / <$r> /
05:31	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/Y67ADM1LEl:1␤»
05:32	TimToady	jeffreykegler: we're not optimizing much for the command line these days :)
05:32	jeffreykegler	Understood
05:33	jeffreykegler	I'm trying to make the syntax do stuff it wasn't designed for
05:33	pmichaud	that's challenging, since the syntax is designed to enable things we didn't think of :)
05:33	jeffreykegler	Yeah
05:34	pmichaud	bedtime for me -- bbl
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05:34	jeffreykegler	The approach I think I'll take is do a first cut with the actuall Perl 6 syntax
05:35	jeffreykegler	Learn to ride the bike before rebuilding it
05:35	jeffreykegler	Sleep is a good idea
05:36	jeffreykegler	Thanks, all!!!
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07:30	moritz	\o
07:30	brrt	o/
07:30	phenny	brrt: 11 Aug 18:31Z <colomon> tell brrt Cat is a hypothetical lazy string type. (Unless someone implemented it while I was on vacation.)
07:31	brrt	colomon++ thats awesome
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07:34	shachaf	Cat?
07:38	moritz	Cat.
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07:44	kresike	good morning all you happy perl6 people
07:48	moritz	good morning all you happy kresike :-)
07:48	kresike	hello moritz
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07:56	hoelzro	o/ perl6 crew
07:58	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: 7dc74d2 \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
07:58	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: use the registry for writing operator files
07:58	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7dc74d2711
07:58	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: feb6c9a \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
07:58	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: small simplification
07:58	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/feb6c9a2e5
07:59	sorear	o/ moritz, brrt, kresike, shachaf, hoelzro
08:00	shachaf	\o sorear
08:00	moritz	good UGT morning *
08:00	brrt	\o sorear
08:00	moritz	sorear: how are your travel plans coming along?
08:01	sorear	moritz: I am at this point absolutely coming. Trip to is booked and payed for.
08:02	moritz	\o/
08:02	sorear	once masak/jnthn/mberends are awake I'm going to chat with them and determine absolutely how long I'm staying post-YAPC so I can get the return trip booked
08:02	moritz	now I just need to fix mine :-)
08:03	hoelzro	when I call self.Role::method(\|@args), the self in Role::method should be the same as the original self, right?
08:03	moritz	hoelzro: correct
08:03	sorear	hoelzro: it should be but it's not due to yucky interactions
08:03	moritz	sorear: how so?
08:03	hoelzro	=(
08:04	kresike	\o sorear
08:04	sorear	moritz: it becomes Role.^find_method('method')(self, \|@args), which autopuns
08:04	tadzik	hello #perl6
08:04	sorear	so "self" is replaced automatically by Role.new
08:04	sorear	maybe we need a :noautopun flag to find_method
08:05	hoelzro	right, that's what I'm observing
08:06	sorear	niecza copied rakudo's design for .:: and autopunning and has the same bug because I couldn't see an easy fix for it
08:09	sorear	.oO( a bug-compatible reimplementation of Perl 6 )
08:11	hoelzro	sorear: do you know of any good work-arounds?
08:13	moritz	nr: role R { method x() { say self } }; class C does R { has $.s handles <Str>; method x { self.R::x() } }; C.new(:s<42>).x
08:14	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«R()␤»
08:14	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Action method trait_mod:handles not yet implemented at /tmp/mEa_nSV46G line 1:â�¤------> ; class C does R { has $.s handles <Str>â��; method x { self.R::x() } }; C.new(:s<4â�¤â�¤Trait 0 not available on variables â€¦
08:14	moritz	:(
08:15	sorear	nr: role R { our method x() { say self } }; class C does R { has $.s handles <Str>; method x { R::x(self) } }; C.new(:s<42>).x
08:15	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&x'␤ in method <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:9704␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2304␤ in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2302␤ in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:843␤ in <anon> at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:824␤ …
08:15	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Action method trait_mod:handles not yet implemented at /tmp/rill693kg5 line 1:â�¤------> ; class C does R { has $.s handles <Str>â��; method x { R::x(self) } }; C.new(:s<42â�¤â�¤Trait 0 not available on variables â€¦
08:15	sorear	nr: role R { our method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; C.new(:s<42>).x
08:15	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&x'␤ in method <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:9704␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2304␤ in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2302␤ in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:843␤ in <anon> at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:824␤ …
08:15	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«42␤»
08:16	sorear	suprised rakduo doesn't like that one
08:16	hoelzro	I have a (fairly) minimal example here: https://gist.github.com/3344225
08:16	hoelzro	(this is for my chat bot)
08:16	sorear	oh, R is parametric in rakudo
08:16	moritz	all roles are parameteric in rakudo
08:16	sorear	nr: role R { &R::x := method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; C.new(:s<42>).x
08:16	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«42␤»
08:16	p6eval	..rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤at /tmp/TLg56cWqoP:1␤»
08:17	moritz	(parametric on ::?CLASS)
08:17	sorear	nr: role R { &R::x = method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; C.new(:s<42>).x
08:17	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«42␤»
08:17	p6eval	..rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter ''; expected $?CLASS but got C instead␤ in method x at /tmp/xVbu12BuFA:1␤ in method x at /tmp/xVbu12BuFA:1␤ in block at /tmp/xVbu12BuFA:1␤␤»
08:18	sorear	r: role R { our method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; say R.WHO.keys # C.new(:s<42>).x
08:18	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«␤»
08:18	sorear	r: role R { our method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; say R[].WHO.keys # C.new(:s<42>).x
08:18	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('keys')␤ in block at /tmp/K_mtiPFRbh:1␤␤»
08:18	sorear	r: role R { our method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; say C.^roles.map(*.name) # C.new(:s<42>).x
08:18	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«No such method 'name' for invocant of type 'R'␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:1191␤ in block at /tmp/rWeczCK8GH:1␤␤»
08:18	sorear	r: role R { our method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; say C.^roles.map({.^name}) # C.new(:s<42>).x
08:18	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«R␤»
08:19	sorear	r: role R { our method x() { say self.s } }; class C does R { has $.s; method x { R::x(self) } }; say C.^roles[0].WHO.keys # C.new(:s<42>).x
08:19	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«␤»
08:19	hoelzro	thanks for the input guys; I'll be back later
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08:57	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: 060e430 \| moritz++ \| src/Perl6/ (2 files):
08:57	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: fix "our" constants
08:57	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/060e430c8a
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09:15	masak	good antenoon, #perl6
09:15	moritz	good UGT morning, masak
09:16	tadzik	hello masak
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09:25	sorear	masak!
09:37	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: 50c1845 \| moritz++ \| src/core/Any.pm:
09:38	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch Any to sigilless parameters
09:38	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/50c1845d09
09:50	masak	TimToady: 'return' in an unquote returns from the macro body, right? just checking.
09:51	masak	in fact, it seems that for all intents and purposes, unquote code runs as if it were not part of a quasi at all, directly in the macro body.
09:56	moritz	yes
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09:57	moritz	just like "foo { closure here }" runs as part of the outer routine, not of the string
09:57	masak	right.
09:57	masak	though the closure has its own lexical scope. I'm not sure the unquotes do.
09:57	masak	unquotes are slowly starting to work locally. it's thrilling to observe.
09:58	moritz	\o/
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09:59	moritz	masak: commit early, commit often :-)
10:00	* masak	hasn't forgotten :)
10:00	masak	just ironing out a few show-stopper bugs.
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10:01	sergot	Hi! o/
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10:01	tadzik	o/
10:03	hoelzro	what would be the correct term for a method call like this: $obj.Super::Class::method()?
10:03	hoelzro	I'm adding a test to roast for the behavior I'm seeing
10:05	moritz	qualified method call
10:05	hoelzro	moritz: thanks
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: df46991 \| moritz++ \| / (2 files):
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: switch writing index and disambiguation files to ues the Registry
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor:
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: currently not quite awesome yet, since it duplicates entries
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/df46991705
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: e6d28fd \| moritz++ \| / (3 files):
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: make disambiguations more awesome
10:09	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e6d28fd1fa
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10:14	hoelzro	is it ok to use 'is' to compare objects for testing? or is there a more suitable function to use?
10:18	masak	'is' will stringify the objects and compare the strings. that may or may not be what you want.
10:19	masak	r: use Test; class A { has $.x }; is A.new(:x(5)), A.new(:x(42))
10:19	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤# got: 'A<-809628722>'␤# expected: 'A<-809602341>'␤»
10:19	masak	r: use Test; class A { has $.x }; is A.new(:x(5)), A.new(:x(5))
10:19	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤# got: 'A<-1153073948>'␤# expected: 'A<-1153093643>'␤»
10:19	hoelzro	masak: I mean, that's acceptable
10:19	hoelzro	because the default stringification should be the class + address
10:19	masak	aye.
10:20	masak	so it essentially compares on object identity.
10:20	dalek	roast: 892a1d7 \| (Rob Hoelz)++ \| S12-methods/qualified.t:
10:20	dalek	roast: Add test for self-preservation in qualified method calls
10:20	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/892a1d750b
10:20	sorear	masak: hi
10:20	sorear	is jnthn around?
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10:21	hoelzro	ok, I've written a few tests for roast; time to start pulling my weight =)
10:22	masak	sorear: no, he doesn't seem to be around at the moment.
10:22	hoelzro	how do you Rakudo folk work on Rakudo? do you just work with the binary out of your working copy, or do you do a temp install somewhere?
10:23	hoelzro	I'd like to contribute to Rakudo, but I also want to maintain my Rakudo ★ installation
10:24	masak	I mostly have a working copy per branch I own, plus one for the nom branch. I install the one for the nom branch, not the others.
10:24	hoelzro	so ./perl6 should just work, right?
10:25	masak	does here.
10:26	hoelzro	ok, cool =)
10:26	tadzik	hoelzro: as long as you did 'make install'
10:26	hoelzro	tadzik: huh?
10:27		topo joined #perl6
10:28	tadzik	hoelzro: you need 'make install' for stuff to work
10:28	hoelzro	I see..
10:34	hoelzro	is there a way to call a role's version of a method other than $obj.My::Role::method()? I need to get around the bug with that to continue with my chat bot
10:38	hoelzro	something along the lines of My::Role.^find_method('method').bind(self).call(\|@args)
10:41	sorear	hoelzro: Try using a class instead? MI
10:45		JimmyZ_ joined #perl6
10:47	JimmyZ_	good evening, #perl6
10:48	moritz	good UGT morning, JimmyZ_
10:49	JimmyZ_	morning, moritz
10:49	hoelzro	sorear: =(
10:50	sorear	hoelzro: that's the internalized MI-phobia talking. Drop the long face and give it a try.
10:51	hoelzro	but...but...roles?
10:51	sorear	Are roles working for you?
10:54	hoelzro	they were
11:03	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: 98aa7f7 \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
11:03	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: switch write-routine-file to use the type registry. Get rid of some global vars
11:03	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/98aa7f757e
11:05		daxim joined #perl6
11:08	jnthn	ohhai
11:08	* jnthn	the whole morning in meetings
11:09	* daxim	gives jnthn a cookie
11:10	* jnthn	14
11:10	jnthn	er, /win, not /me
11:11	sorear	jnthn: ping.
11:11	jnthn	sorear: pong
11:12	sorear	pm.
11:12	jnthn	?
11:13	daxim	↑ query incoming ↑
11:14		broquain1 joined #perl6
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11:34	arnsholt	Huh. Apparently one of the changes in my dyncall-sized-num breaks Rakudo
11:49	masak	chromatic writes about testing and Perl: http://www.modernperlbooks.com[…]perl-testing.html
11:50	moritz	http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=987033 # optimizing compiler for Perl 5?
11:50	masak	I half-expected the influence of the Pugs project to be mentioned in the article. knowing chromatic, I'd guess the omission is intentional and he has some good reason.
11:50	masak	(but of course, this is not a place where we psycho-analyze chromatic) :)
11:52	tadzik	I'd love to get it done and released at YAPC 2013, which will hopefully be held here in Austin.
11:52	tadzik	Invent a time machine and send the code back from 2023.
11:52	tadzik	rurban++ nails it ;)
11:52	tadzik	oh, that's chromatic++ actually
11:52	masak	moritz++ # nice answer!
11:52	jnthn	You know you have a tricky problem on your hands when implemetning a time machine is the easier option.
11:53	moritz	well, at least you don't have scheduling problems with the time machine (if you manage to build it at all)
11:54	* masak	.oO( "the time machine was tricky too, but made signficantly simpler because I had this design I sent back!" )
11:54	masak	I think that's an autopun.
11:55	tadzik	so you have the bootstraping problem to which the solution is "wait"?
11:57	moritz	tadzik: no need for waiting
11:58	jnthn	Doesn't this approach mean that you're assuming your future self would rather leave your past self waiting around for longer than needed, rather than going back to the point when you first had started wanting the time machine?
11:58	moritz	tadzik: because if you'll have a time machine, your future self would present it to you right now
11:58	moritz	(unless your future self wants to wait until you're on your own :-)
11:59	jnthn	.oO( Why does my future self always think he knows better than I do now? :P )
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11:59	moritz	jnthn: second system syndrome, I'm sure :-)
12:01	masak	jnthn: seems to be a very human way of thinking.
12:02	masak	similarly, we feel we know better than people in the 19th century, not because science has progressed by leaps and bounds since then -- which it has -- but since they come from an era where photographs were black-and-white, if that, and they dressed very outmodedly and said funny things.
12:04	jnthn	Yeah. I bet they didn't even dress in hacker t-shirts when they went to hackathons. :P
12:06	masak	:D
12:06	* jnthn	tries to focus on this $reporting task
12:06	jnthn	On the up side, I just had the hand-off meeting about it :)
12:06	masak	jnthn: they were probably helped by some cocky valley girl who spoke their language.
12:07	masak	wow, the comment about Perl in http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4379541 are not negative.
12:07	moritz	maybe the ruby folks haven't woken up yet? :-)
12:08	masak	there was at least one Ruby person among the commenters.
12:09	moritz	I know. I was joking.
12:13	masak	right. hence the smiley. :)
12:13		fridim_ joined #perl6
12:14	jnthn	Ruby folks get to sleep in? Geez...good job I didn't know that when picking a language to hack on :P
12:17	moritz	nr: say <a b c A B>.uniq(*.uc)
12:17	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1␤ in method uniq at src/gen/CORE.setting:1094␤ in block at /tmp/RtD_SMbk4a:1␤␤»
12:17	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to Any.uniq, used 1 of 2 positionals␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (Any.uniq @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/hi_m4Ozt3i line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3929 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /ho…
12:19	jnthn	awww
12:19	jnthn	It'd be nice if .uniq could do that :)
12:21	tadzik	oh yes
12:21	tadzik	even List::Util has uniq_by in TODO
12:21	tadzik	I'm missing it from time to time
12:23	* jnthn	uses the Linq equivalent to that a reasonable amount in real world code
12:29	colomon	seems like it would be easy enough to add to List::Utils...
12:29	tadzik	yep
12:29	tadzik	I was planning to make that my first contribution to Perl 5 :)
12:32	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: 43ee365 \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
12:32	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: kill some dead code
12:32	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/43ee365d74
12:32	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: 0945572 \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
12:32	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: remove %types. Switch search to the type registry instead
12:32	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0945572f1f
12:32	sirrobert	I really agree with this from that article (fwiw): Of all the languages I've used for pay and for hobby, none compare to Perl in terms of testing culture and ecosystem.
12:33	sirrobert	take out "testing" and it's still true
12:33	moritz	ok, htmlify-refactor branch is ready for merging
12:33	moritz	I've synced its output to doc.perl6.org
12:33	daxim	tadzik, leonerd said he wants to merge his <http://p3rl.org/List::UtilsBy> *_by functions into List::Util
12:33		scottdware joined #perl6
12:33	moritz	if anybody finds something wrong the site, please tell me soon
12:34	moritz	otherwise I'll merge later today
12:34	colomon	tadzik: no, List::Utils, the p6 version. ;)
12:34	tadzik	colomon: oh, I see :)
12:34	tadzik	daxim: bah, too late then :)
12:35	daxim	a reminder can't hurt, I also want MOAR functional prog
12:35	moritz	disambiguation pages like http://doc.perl6.org/Str have changed, they now list each separately documented variant of a routine
12:39	sirrobert	http://doc.perl6.org/routine/Str
12:39	sirrobert	there's an odd ordered list at the top of the page.
12:39	sirrobert	(at least, I don't understand it =)
12:41	sirrobert	or rather
12:41	daxim	that list should say: Str from Mu, Str from List and so on
12:41	sirrobert	I guess I mean: I think the section labels could be better
12:41	moritz	right
12:42	jnthn	maybe "routine Str from Mu"
12:42	jnthn	is it hard to differentiate sub from method?
12:42	sirrobert	Mu.Str ?
12:43	sirrobert	It's nice when docs use language-like syntax
12:43	sirrobert	reduces the cognitive load
12:43	jnthn	Mu.Str (method)
12:43	jnthn	Str (type)
12:43	jnthn	perhaps
12:43	sirrobert	on that page, the primary info is Mu, List, etc.
12:43	sirrobert	not Str
12:43	moritz	jnthn: not hard, just nasty (differentiate sub from method)
12:44	moritz	sirrobert: ok, will fix
12:44	sirrobert	I'll scan for other stuff
12:44	jnthn	moritz: Nasty in what sense?
12:44	moritz	jnthn: I need to extract the first code block from the pod tree, and see if it declares a sub or a method
12:44	moritz	and all of that is nasty to do
12:45	moritz	the first needs nasty walking of nasty doc tree
12:45	moritz	the second needs partial parsing of Perl 6 declarations
12:45		MayDaniel joined #perl6
12:46	jnthn	ah, ok
12:46	jnthn	I'll settle with routine for now then :)
12:48	sirrobert	looks good. (this is the first time I've seen doc.perl6.org) Thanks =)
12:50		cognominal joined #perl6
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13:05	sirrobert	when I worked at my old company, we used a proprietary docs format (not POD). Where can I find the docs on perl6 POD -- especially for someone not used to POD
13:06	diakopter	it's complicated, because there's the perl6 POD that's specified in S26, and then there's what's implemented, and they're extremely different
13:06	sirrobert	ok ... I'll go with implemented for now =)
13:06	sirrobert	I'm writing production code
13:06	sirrobert	heh
13:07	diakopter	afaik, what's implemented is basically the same as p5
13:07	sirrobert	ok hmm
13:07	jnthn	huh?
13:07	diakopter	?
13:07	sirrobert	?
13:07	sirrobert	=)
13:07	* jnthn	thought the implementation tadzik++ did in Rakudo followed S26 rather well
13:07	* diakopter	missed a year or two here or there
13:07	jnthn	As in, it can parse S26 which is written in Perl 6 Pod. :)
13:08	sirrobert	tell you what, I'll just follow S26 and let you know if anything breaks.
13:08	moritz	not all of S26 is implemented, but a good part of it
13:08	diakopter	ohh..
13:09	diakopter	I didn't realize it was better than STD in that regard....
13:09	moritz	http://doc.perl6.org/routine/Str now with more varied headings
13:09	moritz	doc.perl6.org is all powered by p6 doc and Pod::To::HTML and a large piece of custom glue code
13:09	sirrobert	thanks, Moritz
13:09	moritz	) can't easily get rid of the 'Str' subheadings, at least not now
13:10	sirrobert	oh wait, I mean: moritz++ =)
13:10	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: ee09646 \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
13:10	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: better headings for routine files
13:10	dalek	doc/htmlify-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ee09646f6b
13:11	dalek	doc: 6e06b33 \| moritz++ \| lib/Perl6/Documentable.pm:
13:11	dalek	doc: Perl6::Documentable skeleton
13:11	dalek	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6e06b339fd
13:11	dalek	doc: 05d0485 \| moritz++ \| lib/Perl6/Documentable.pm:
13:11	dalek	doc: flesh out Documentable a bit
13:12		dalek joined #perl6
13:13		bluescreen10 joined #perl6
13:14		scottdware joined #perl6
13:17	mathw	While I would very much like to be writing this code in a glorious Perl 6 implementation, I have to admit that Perl 5 is pretty awesome in itself :)
13:20		leprevost joined #perl6
13:22	tadzik	well, I +1 jnthn, I think I implented S26 rather well ;)
13:22	tadzik	sirrobert: if you find something which S26 likes and Rakudo doesn't, please yell at me until I fix it
13:23	moritz	tadzik: speaking of pod stuff...
13:23	sirrobert	tadzik: wilco
13:23	moritz	tadzik: in htmlify.pl in the perl6/doc repo, I have sub pod-gist
13:23	moritz	tadzik: which I use to debug/inspect pod trees
13:23	moritz	tadzik: please try it on some pod docs, and see if you like the output
13:24	moritz	tadzik: if yes, I'll be happy to port it to rakudo
13:24	moritz	(or you can do it)
13:25	tadzik	moritz: so it's like Pod.gist?
13:26	moritz	tadzik: no, IMHO it's better :-)
13:26	tadzik	;)
13:26	moritz	tadzik: but a possible replacement for Pod::Block.gist, yes
13:26	tadzik	okay, I'll take a look after $work
13:27		fhelmberger joined #perl6
13:30		JimmyZ joined #perl6
13:30	masak	TimToady++ # http://rosettacode.org/mw/inde[…]ame_Fringe#Perl_6
13:33	masak	TimToady: how can 'not samefringe $a, $x' work? doesn't Z=== stop when the shortest list finishes?
13:33	masak	rn: say 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Z=== 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
13:33	* [Coke]	~~
13:33	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b, niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«True True True True True True True True␤»
13:34	masak	rn: say all 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Z=== 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
13:34	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«all(Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True)␤»
13:34	p6eval	..rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«all(True, True, True, True, True, True, True, True)␤»
13:34	masak	rn: say so all 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Z=== 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
13:34	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b, niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:34	masak	[Coke]: \o
13:35	moritz	masak: if we had a meta-operator for roundrobin, that might be a use case for it
13:35	moritz	(if you want the comparison to return False because one list is longer)
13:36		skids joined #perl6
13:36	masak	I don't want more metaoperator, I want fewer. :/
13:36	masak	s*
13:38	[Coke]	gabor sez: "Note! This site is about Perl 6, the future version of Perl." Is that "close enough" or should we suggest an alternate phrasing.
13:38	[Coke]	http://perl6maven.com/perl5-to-perl6-arrays
13:38	pmichaud	I'd prefer an alternate phrasing, yes.
13:38	masak	I think "the future version of Perl" hits two of the red buttons that mst and I agreed we would try not to push.
13:39	masak	"future" angers sixers, "version" angers fivers.
13:43	moritz	"This site is about Perl 6. If you don't know which Perl version you are using, it is likely version 5. See perl5maven.com for more information on Perl 5"
13:46	masak	s/Perl version/Perl/
13:46	masak	s/version 5/Perl 5/
13:48	moritz	"This site is about Perl 6. If you don't know which Perl you are using, it is likely Perl 5"
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: d3d3555 \| moritz++ \| src/core/Str.pm:
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch Str to sigilless params
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/d3d3555cac
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: c9417ca \| moritz++ \| src/core/ (5 files):
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch IO, PseudoStash, traits, control.pm and stubs.pm to sigilless params
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/c9417ca52c
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: 217d1e3 \| moritz++ \| src/core/Bool.pm:
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch Bool to sigilless params
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/217d1e3e33
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: 44730d6 \| moritz++ \| src/core/ (2 files):
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch Regex and MapIter to sigilless params
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/44730d6787
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: 96e60eb \| moritz++ \| src/core/Enum (2 files):
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch Enum and EnumMap to sigilless params
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/96e60eb1bb
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: 56f00c7 \| moritz++ \| src/core/ (2 files):
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: switch Num and a few others to use sigilless params
13:49	dalek	rakudo/sigilless: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/56f00c752d
13:50	[Coke]	http://news.perlfoundation.org[…]nt-proposals.html -
13:50	[Coke]	public comments on the 2 grants this quarter welcome.
13:50	moritz	anybody wants a dumb but necessary Perl 6 task?
13:50	[Coke]	(one of them is sixian.)
13:50	[Coke]	no, I'm full up on <insert name of developer here>!
13:51	moritz	in the sigilless branch, go through the setting and replace sub f(\$x) { uses $x here } with sub f(\x) { uses x here }
13:52	felher	moritz: why do we change everything to sigilless?
13:52	[Coke]	anyone know Aliaksandr Zahatski?
13:52	[Coke]	sigils impose a context which the setting doesn't want to use.
13:52	pmichaud	impose? or imply?
13:53	jnthn	.oO( nobody expects the sigil imposition )
13:53	[Coke]	I believe impose was the word used yesterday: I am merely parroting.
13:53	moritz	[Coke]: because the old syntax isn't valid Perl 6 anymore
13:53	moritz	and yes, they (are supposed to) impose a context
13:53	[Coke]	oh, \$x, not $x
13:54	pmichaud	if they impose a context, then that's a significant change to Rakudo.
13:54	moritz	that's why there are now several hundred (felt) warnings while compiling the setting, in the the sigilless branch
13:54	pmichaud	you mean that the following no longer holds...?
13:55	pmichaud	r: my $x := Array.new(1,2,3); for $x { .say };
13:55	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
13:55	moritz	pmichaud: correct
13:55	pmichaud	is that fixed in the sigilless branch?
13:55	moritz	no
13:55	moritz	it's only the first step
13:55	pmichaud	that's going to be a significant task to implement.
13:56	pmichaud	because it means that flattening behavior is no longer tied to containerness.
13:56	felher	Ah, okay. sub a (\$variable) is not valid anymore. It's sub a (\variable) now ?
13:56	moritz	unless every scalar var gets a container
13:56	moritz	felher: correct
13:56	pmichaud	if every scalar var gets a container, then my $x := doesn't dtrt
13:56	felher	moritz, coke: okay, thanks :)
13:57	jnthn	fwiw, I hadn't understood that we were changing the semtnics of binding to a scalar
13:57	moritz	pmichaud: sigilless now just provides the correct way to do it without the $ sigil
13:57	moritz	n: my $a := Array.new(1, 2, 3); .say for $a
13:57	pmichaud	moritz: I'm worried about the notion that the $ imposes a context.
13:57	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to List.new, used 1 of 4 positionals␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (List.new @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/OKetQ47nnG line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3929 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /ho…
13:57	moritz	n: my $a := (1, 2, 3); .say for $a
13:57	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
13:58	jnthn	I'd understood it as "having the $ sigil on something that we know may or may not be a container is suboptimal"
13:58	jnthn	pmichaud: I'm bothered about that too :(
13:59	jnthn	If it's the case and spec'd.
14:00	pmichaud	I'm just saying that if we say that the $ always imposes a non-flattening context, even under := binding, then that's a very significant change to Rakudo and its internals.
14:01	jnthn	Indeed
14:01	pmichaud	it also greatly affects lists and flattening behavior.
14:01	pmichaud	as in, I have to rethink the model yet again a bit.
14:01	jnthn	:(
14:01	pmichaud	I'm afk again for a few minutes.
14:01	* jnthn	wonders when enough is enough on this stuff
14:02	masak	I guess part of the torment is the ground moving under the implementor.
14:03	masak	if it's any consolation, it's painful for app developers, too.
14:05	jnthn	Yes, but there's limited tuits and we're worrying about increasingly tiny warts, fixing of which threatens to spend a lot of tuits.
14:05	masak	aye.
14:05	jnthn	Imagine if we spent them on, oh, I dunno, async IO, or making pre-comp more robust, or more memory/performance improvements, or S09...
14:06	masak	you know those tuits aren't fungible :) but point taken.
14:06	masak	well, what pmichaud is doing is very important: distilling a sane underlying model on top of which we can build the rest.
14:06	masak	what I'd like to optimize for more than other things is for pmichaud to be able to do that as efficiently as possible.
14:07	moritz	fwiw even if we decide that $ does not always impose context, I think the sigilless stuff is worth it
14:08	moritz	because it reduce the number of times that a user is exposed to a $-sigiled var that is not a scalar
14:08	jnthn	moritz: Oh, the sigilless stuff is worth it, I agree.
14:08	jnthn	moritz: Well, yes, if you have to explicitly bind with := then I think it's much less of an issue.
14:10		tanzdebil joined #perl6
14:10	tanzdebil	morning, peoples
14:10		SamuraiJack joined #perl6
14:10	tanzdebil	r: say caller.WHAT
14:10	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&caller' called (line 1)␤»
14:11	tanzdebil	n: say caller.WHAT
14:11	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤ at Anon.1.Run.MAIN.C0mainline (Niecza.Frame ) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at Niecza.Kernel.RunCore (Niecza.Frame& cur) [0x00000] in <filenam…
14:11	tanzdebil	so, no caller?
14:12	jnthn	No, though CALLER:: pseudo-packager is implemented if that does what you want
14:13	tanzdebil	ok...
14:13	jnthn	What do you need to do, ooc?
14:15	moritz	tanzdebil: it's called callframe in Perl 6
14:15	jnthn	oh!
14:15	pmichaud	back again
14:15		fridim_ joined #perl6
14:16	pmichaud	I totally agree that sigilless is worth it. I'm not arguing against that at all.
14:16	masak	r: say callframe.^name
14:16	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«CallFrame␤»
14:16	sirrobert	trying to install DBIish with panda: Unrecognized nqp:: opcode 'nqp::nativecallrefresh' at line 274, near ";\n 1;\n}"
14:16	masak	r: say callframe.^methods>>.name
14:16	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«new line file callframe <anon> <anon> <anon>␤»
14:16	sirrobert	apparently it couldn't resolve some dependency resolution for "NativeCall"
14:17	sirrobert	is this a known issue?
14:17	pmichaud	I very much like the notion that I can bind a symbol to something without a sigil implying something that isn't true.
14:17	masak	sirrobert: that's zavolaj.
14:17	moritz	sirrobert: does 'use NativeCall;' work?
14:17	jnthn	arnsholt++ has been doing quite a few bits with NativeCall of late.
14:17	sirrobert	moritz: seems to
14:17	jnthn	Maybe current depends on having a very recent Rakudo or NQP or something.
14:17	tanzdebil	r: sub foo { say callframe^.name } foo()
14:17	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/2ZV7903UMx:1␤»
14:18	pmichaud	semicolon
14:18	pmichaud	std: sub abc(\$x) { say $x; }; # just checking
14:19	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤ Unsupported use of \ with sigil; nowadays please use \ without sigil at /tmp/mhtuVVR8iL line 1:â�¤------> sub abc(\$xâ��) { say $x; }; # just checkingâ�¤ok 00:00 43mâ�¤Â»
14:19	moritz	tanzdebil: .^ is always a call to the meta class -- not what you want
14:19	sirrobert	despite the fact that "use NativeCall;" works when I try it, installing DBIish still tries to grab and install it (maybe a version thing?)
14:19	sirrobert	when I did: panda install NativeCall it gives the same error.
14:19	pmichaud	std: sub abc(\@x) { say @x; };
14:19	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤ Unsupported use of \ with sigil; nowadays please use \ without sigil at /tmp/y3VRz4jIsp line 1:â�¤------> sub abc(\@xâ��) { say @x; };â�¤ok 00:00 43mâ�¤Â»
14:20	arnsholt	It's the bat^wNativeCall signal!
14:20	* arnsholt	reads
14:20	pmichaud	That gives me a twinge; it means we no longer have the equivalent of "is ref" for sigiled variables.
14:20	tanzdebil	r: sub foo { say callframe.WHAT } foo()
14:20	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/H_c_q5VZuw:1␤»
14:21	pmichaud	maybe we don't need (or want) it, but it feels like we've lost something there.
14:21	jnthn	r: sub foo { say callframe.WHAT }; foo()
14:21	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«CallFrame()␤»
14:21	sirrobert	woops... MiniDBI uses NativeCall too =)
14:21	arnsholt	sirrobert: I think it might be an old Rakudo/NQP pair. Do you compile and install your own, or do your install a package from somewhere?
14:22	sirrobert	install my own, but it's been a month or so
14:22	tanzdebil	moritz: ok, thanks -- I just want something that, well, acts sort of like the way caller is described in S06-advanced/caller.t
14:22	sirrobert	compile my own, I mean
14:22	moritz	tanzdebil: what do you need it for?
14:22	tanzdebil	if such a thingy exists
14:22	arnsholt	Hmm. Think that should be recent enough
14:22	arnsholt	Oh, no!
14:22	moritz	tanzdebil: if you want the caller's name, Backtrace is currently the best route
14:22	sirrobert	arnsholt: let me do a re-compile and see (just takes a few minutes)
14:22	tanzdebil	to behave like caller() in p5
14:22	arnsholt	That'll fix it
14:23	sirrobert	arnsholt: ok =) What's the thing, do you think?
14:23		brrt left #perl6
14:23	arnsholt	nativecallrefresh is a recent addition
14:23	pmichaud	anyway, since STD.pm6 doesn't like \ in front of sigiled variables, I totally agree that the sigilless branch will need to convert all of the \$x to \x in the setting.
14:23	moritz	r: sub f { g() }; sub g { say Backtrace.new.[0].subname }; f()
14:23	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«new␤»
14:23	jnthn	moritz: We will warn about it in the next release, iiuc?
14:23	moritz	r: sub f { g() }; sub g { say Backtrace.new.[1].subname }; f()
14:23	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«g␤»
14:23	arnsholt	It's an opcode to manually refresh objects that have been twiddled by C code while you weren't looking, so to speak
14:23	moritz	r: sub f { g() }; sub g { say Backtrace.new.[2].subname }; f()
14:23	jnthn	moritz: And remove it further down the line?
14:23	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«f␤»
14:23	moritz	jnthn: that's up for discussion
14:23	pmichaud	Whether we go further and say that $ on a variable ->imposes<- a context in expressions needs further discussion.
14:24	moritz	jnthn: currently the parser issues a warning, and that's hard-coded
14:24	moritz	jnthn: whether we merge the branch before or after the release can be discussed
14:24		scottdware joined #perl6
14:24	arnsholt	(We check arguments to functions for modifications, but if a previous function has saved a reference to a memory location and a later function, not taking the object as an argument directly, changes it, you have to manually refresh)
14:24	tanzdebil	r: sub g { say Backtrace.new.[0].WHAT }; g()
14:24	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Backtrace::Frame()␤»
14:24	tanzdebil	r: sub g { say Backtrace.new.[0].subname }; g()
14:24	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«new␤»
14:24	tanzdebil	r: sub g { say Backtrace.new.[1].subname }; g()
14:24	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«g␤»
14:25	tanzdebil	awesome!
14:25	moritz	also depends a bit on if and what policy we adopt for managing changes
14:25	[Coke]	does std have a test suite? --lazyCoke
14:25	moritz	[Coke]: roast :-)
14:25	pmichaud	[Coke]: std uses roast also
14:26	pmichaud	I have to run errands; I'm afk for a while.
14:26	tanzdebil	moritz -- thanks!
14:27	[Coke]	I wonder if I should add std to the list of daily spec testers.
14:27	moritz	http://doc.perl6.org/Str # now knows that some of them are methods
14:28	masak	r: sub g { .say for Backtrace.new.list>>.subname }; g
14:28	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«new␤g␤␤␤»
14:28	dalek	perl6-roast-data: 8d6f501 \| coke++ \| / (4 files):
14:28	dalek	perl6-roast-data: today
14:28	dalek	perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-[…]commit/8d6f5016f2
14:28	moritz	rakudo introduces two callframes for the mainline
14:29	moritz	that's why there are two empty lines in the output
14:29	[Coke]	rakudo just hit 23000
14:29	masak	\o/
14:30	jnthn	\o/
14:31		scottdware joined #perl6
14:32		scottdware joined #perl6
14:32		thou joined #perl6
14:33		scottdware joined #perl6
14:35		sftp joined #perl6
14:36	arnsholt	[Coke]: Having std check the spectests sounds good to me
14:37		alester joined #perl6
14:42		benabik joined #perl6
14:44	* colomon	had to foolishly go and add one more test for existing code to List::Utils, and it doesn't work under Niecza. :(
14:45	* colomon	will take some of the credit for 23000, having added new tests in the last couple of days. ;)
14:46	* diakopter	can't push to github :(
14:47	masak	diakopter: works here.
14:47		scottdware joined #perl6
14:47	diakopter	:/ looks like dns problem at my end.
14:59	kresike	bye all
15:02	TimToady	masak: that is why I tack an Any on the end of each list
15:04	colomon	oh, you are testing this case, aren't you? TimToady++
15:04	colomon	wait... what about 1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 5 => 6 => 7 => 8 => Any versus 1 => 2 => 3 => 4 => 5 => 6 => 7 => 8 ?
15:05	TimToady	Any === Any
15:05	TimToady	and I assume the leaves don't contain an Any
15:06	TimToady	I wanted to use Nil, but it disappears in list context by the currently implemented semantics
15:06	TimToady	(I think that's one of the things OKness was going to change)
15:19	masak	TimToady: ah, that clears it up.
15:19		havenn joined #perl6
15:25		jeffreykegler joined #perl6
15:27	TimToady	a couple other things: rakudo's Z isn't lazy, and niecza doesn't allow fringeˊ with the MODIFIER LETTER ACUTE ACCENT on the end
15:29	TimToady	and while niecza's Z is lazy, Z=== isn't
15:30	masak	there's three bug reports in what you just said. I think only the first may have been submitted.
15:32		Timothy69 joined #perl6
15:32	jnthn	decommute &
15:33	Timothy69	bleh:)
15:34	colomon	is for really supposed to be eager if the list passed is not known infinite, or is that a rakudo-bug?
15:34	colomon	nr: for 1..* Z 1..* -> $a { say $a; last if $a == 3 }
15:34	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤2␤3␤»
15:34	p6eval	..rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:37	colomon	nr: for 1..* -> $a { say $a; last if $a == 3 }
15:37	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b, niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
15:40		tanzdebil joined #perl6
15:40		thelazydeveloper joined #perl6
15:41	TimToady	to see the lack of laziness, put 'say $leaf' in with the 'take $leaf'
15:42	TimToady	for is supposed to be eager in sink context, and lazy when it's functioning as a map
15:42	colomon	oh! Is my bug a Z bug rather than a for bug?
15:43	TimToady	I don't see a bug in what you put up above
15:43	TimToady	oh, wait
15:43	TimToady	that was niecza
15:43	colomon	do we have an idiom for "I want to lazily loop through this array and have side-effects rather than results?"
15:44	colomon	wait, is map also supposed to be eager in sink context?
15:44	moritz	sure
15:44	TimToady	yes
15:45	TimToady	colomon: sure, we have such an idiom, called read the next element of the list
15:45	colomon	TimToady: how do you do that without destroying the list?
15:45	TimToady	but using lazy lists for side effects is kinda...fraught...
15:45	moritz	colomon: a lazy loop without results would just never do anything
15:45	TimToady	lists are meant to be destroyed
15:46	TimToady	use an array if you want to keep the values
15:46	colomon	of for pete's sake
15:46	colomon	https://gist.github.com/3350408 # how do you suggest implementing this so it can handle lazy lists as input?
15:48	* colomon	has already used "gather for" four times this morning...
15:48	sirrobert	arnshold et al.: recompiling rakudo from the latest tarball didn't fix the NativeCall error
15:49	sirrobert	going to look into a workaround =)
15:49	TimToady	why wouldn't that handle lazy lists? gather provides a sink context, so the for runs, and it stops at the take unless there is demand for the next value
15:49	arnsholt	sirrobert: You need a new NQP as well. Not sure if the NQP revision Rakudo currently wants is new enough
15:49	arnsholt	(If it isn't we'll probably want to fix that)
15:49		tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
15:50	sirrobert	arnsholt: hrm. Where do I get a new NQP (and what's NQP? =)
15:50	colomon	TimToady: "for is supposed to be eager in sink context"
15:50	sirrobert	ah, found it on github. reading
15:50	moritz	arnsholt: should I bump rakudo's NQP_REVISION to nqp master?
15:50	TimToady	the for is eager, sure
15:50	TimToady	that doesn't mean the loop doesn't hang when it needs to
15:50	sirrobert	moritz: let me see if that fixes my problem, at least
15:50	sirrobert	(or do it for other reasons)
15:51	arnsholt	moritz: I think that should fix it
15:51	TimToady	okay, let's rephrase that
15:51	colomon	TimToady: maybe we're not talking about for being eager in the same way. I mean eagerly evaluating the list it is passed before starting to executre
15:51	moritz	arnsholt: it's already on newest
15:51	TimToady	right
15:51	moritz	arnsholt: maybe you need to merge your branch first?
15:51	arnsholt	Oh!
15:51	arnsholt	I feel silly now =)
15:51	arnsholt	:q
15:51	* hugme	hugs arnsholt, good vi(m) user!
15:51	TimToady	the 'for' is eager in the sense that it keeps trying to get the next value of the lazy list
15:52	sirrobert	arnsholt: any ideas about my issue?
15:52	TimToady	it is not eager in the sense of slapping an eager() around the argument list
15:52	colomon	TimToady: ah. it certainly has done that in Rakudo in the past.
15:52	TimToady	and that confusion may be at the root of most of the eagerness bugs in rakudo
15:52	masak	TimToady: that's not a distinction I've seen made anywhere before.
15:53		joyv joined #perl6
15:53	TimToady	anything eager just keeps reading the lazy list. eager() merely does that till it runs out of list, and returns the whole list
15:53	masak	TimToady: so, you're saying that the difference in eagerness between 'for' and 'map'... is non-syntactical?
15:53	TimToady	there is no difference
15:53	masak	ok.
15:53	moritz	(if we do sink context properly, there is no difference)
15:54	TimToady	there is not supposed to be a difference, I should say
15:54	colomon	nr: https://gist.github.com/3350456
15:54	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/c4vhQQ9sz9:10␤»
15:54	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Missing block at /tmp/oOIw6xlR_V line 10 (EOF):â�¤------> }â��<EOL>â�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
15:55	colomon	nr: https://gist.github.com/3350456
15:55	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/0622KMBDYq:10␤»
15:55	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Missing block at /tmp/Ti2HUhvHyM line 10 (EOF):â�¤------> }â��<EOL>â�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
15:56	arnsholt	moritz: It's not in a branch
15:56	arnsholt	master has nqp::nativecallrefresh inserted in QAST/Operations.nqp
15:56	arnsholt	So latest NQP should fix it
15:56	TimToady	std: https://gist.github.com/3350456
15:56	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 45m␤»
15:57	colomon	nr: https://gist.github.com/3350456
15:57	moritz	arnsholt: we are talking about 83e2a14cc9f8e6fd09bb78a897c39deba8809f70 in nqp as "latest master", right?
15:57	sirrobert	arnsholt: compiling now
15:57	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:57	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
15:57	arnsholt	moritz: Yup
15:58	moritz	that's what rakudo/nom uses as NQP_REVISION
15:58	arnsholt	Bah!
15:58	colomon	TimToady: yeah, Rakudo's for effectively slaps an eager around the argument list still. (Though only if it is not known infinite)
15:58	arnsholt	In that case, I have no idea what's wrong
15:58	TimToady	colomon: I'm surprised niecza didn't give you a better message there
15:58	colomon	TimToady: me too
15:58	TimToady	std: for lines -> {...}
15:58	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤Function 'lines' needs parens to avoid gobbling block at /tmp/e8a8p3obI7 line 1:â�¤------> for linesâ�� -> {...}â�¤Missing block (apparently gobbled by 'lines') at /tmp/e8a8p3obI7 line 1:â�¤------> for lines -> {...}[33â€¦
15:59	TimToady	that message
15:59	TimToady	std: sub generate {...}; for generate -> {...}
15:59	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤Function 'generate' needs parens to avoid gobbling block at /tmp/IeAbHuFnGC line 1:â�¤------> sub generate {...}; for generateâ�� -> {...}â�¤Missing block (apparently gobbled by 'generate') at /tmp/IeAbHuFnGC line 1:â�¤------â€¦
15:59	colomon	n: sub generate {...}; for generate -> {...}
15:59	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Missing block at /tmp/qRGlHPjh1o line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> ub generate {...}; for generate -> {...}â��<EOL>â�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
15:59	TimToady	oh, I think that uses %*MEMOS, which niecza has avoided
15:59		am0c joined #perl6
16:00	TimToady	errands &
16:01	sirrobert	arnsholt: hrm... ok. Going to get some lunch. Will try to think of something while I'm gone =)
16:02	sirrobert	worst case scenario is I can just wire it up manually for this deadline and integrate with a DBI later.
16:04	arnsholt	Sounds like a plan, yeah =)
16:05	colomon	Okay, List::Utils now has uniq-by, though one of the tests for it hangs in Rakudo. (Everything works in Niecza.)
16:07	masak	hm, I wonder if there's a case for spec'ing .uniq to do what .uniq-by does...
16:07	* jnthn	home
16:09	tadzik	I'd +1 that
16:12	colomon	masak: I believe so.
16:13	colomon	masak: but part of the rationale for List::Utils has always been, "maybe some of these should be a core part of p6"
16:13	masak	well, in that case, colomon++
16:13	colomon	note that there are some interesting questions about just how it should work
16:14	masak	it doesn't feel obvious that .uniq should have an optional &by argument... but it feels kinda, um, strangely consistent that it do.
16:14	masak	thus placing it in the same "class" of methods as .min and .sort
16:15	colomon	The niecza source code says "[uniq] needs a way of taking a user-defined comparison specifier, but AFAIK nothing has been spec'd yet." Mind you, I probably wrote that myself. ;)
16:16	masak	heh.
16:17	masak	as to "some interesting questions about just how it should work" -- how about this: run the &by code, and compare results with === :)
16:18	masak	simple and works for anything I can think of.
16:18	colomon	and O(N^2), no?
16:19	jeffreykegler	Reading STD.pm it looks like precedence is set using an <O(...)> assertion
16:19	jeffreykegler	Which synopsis is that documented in?
16:19	colomon	I meant specifically, do you return the original $element from the list, or &by($element)?
16:19	masak	colomon: original, of course.
16:19	colomon	yeah, that's what I'm thinking too
16:19	masak	otherwise you'd just .map.uniq
16:19	colomon	exactly
16:20	masak	jeffreykegler: in STD.pm :)
16:20	jeffreykegler	masak: Doesn't count!! I said synopsis :-)
16:21	arnsholt	I'm not sure the exact mechanism of setting precedence levels is specced
16:21	masak	S05 definitely talks about precedence levels.
16:22	masak	I don't hink it talks about <O(...)>
16:22	masak	but I've always thought of that one as STD.pm6-specific.
16:25	arnsholt	Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is
16:26	arnsholt	Although NQP (and by extension Rakudo, I guess) have adopted the same convention I think
16:26	moritz	<O($level)> parses any expression with precedence tighter (or equal?) than $level
16:26	thou	tadzik: i found a few things that don't work right w/ rakudo S26 handling
16:26	thou	r: my $pod = eval "=head1 Foo\n\n =head1 Bar\n\n\$=pod\n"; say $pod.perl;
16:26	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead␤at eval_0:3␤»
16:26		scottdware left #perl6
16:26	jeffreykegler	Is <O(...)> a builtin?
16:27	moritz	not in Perl 6, no
16:27	moritz	we haven't found a good way to expose the precedence parse to user space
16:27	thou	(indented pod block doesn't work unless it's the first block)
16:27	moritz	but it's soemthing we've been wanting to do for ages
16:28	jeffreykegler	moritz: I'd always wondered about that
16:28	tadzik	thou: gist please?
16:28	thou	tadzik: sure, one minute
16:28	jeffreykegler	I mean I get the basic idea of mixing operation precedence and LL
16:29	jeffreykegler	But now that I have experience with boundaries between parsers I know they can be very hard to document in any reasonable way
16:29	masak	you do? cool!
16:29	masak	yeah, and there's been some bugs in the boundaries as well.
16:29	masak	so it's not trivial.
16:29	moritz	one thing that always bothered me about the precedence parser is that it "just" uses special names
16:29	moritz	ie things like 'term' are hard coded in there
16:30	jeffreykegler	Sure, the basic idea is when you need to parse you call the "do what I mean" function and it chooses
16:30	moritz	(or at least that's my understanding... feel free to correct me)
16:31		cognominal_ joined #perl6
16:31	masak	moritz: well, there's only a finite set of those. I don't see the problem with hardcoding them.
16:31	moritz	masak: it's a problem if you want to use multiple OPPs in the same grammar
16:32	thou	oops, wrong channel :-)
16:32	thou	r: https://gist.github.com/3350640
16:32	masak	hm.
16:32	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead␤at /tmp/3dYwKjXG4b:3␤»
16:32	* masak	takes the opportunity to mention "precircumfix" in the backlog ;)
16:32	tadzik	thou: interesting. Looking
16:39	diakopter	.u 2ADC
16:39	phenny	U+2ADC FORKING (⫝̸)
16:40	tadzik	thou: ok, I have no idea why this happens :)
16:40	daxim	this character is ridiculous
16:40	thou	tadzik: here's another
16:40	thou	r: https://gist.github.com/3350658
16:40	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Array.new(Pod::Heading.new(level => 1, config => ("numbered" => "1").hash, content => Array.new(Pod::Block::Para.new(config => ().hash, content => Array.new("= :nested(2) This doesn't work right")))))␤»
16:40	thou	the :nested(2) should wind up in %config
16:40	tadzik	right
16:41	thou	that one i know why. the regex in Perl6::Grammar is all kinds of ugly for that stuff
16:41	thou	using $<spaces> in some places, and not in others....
16:41	thou	and lots of cut-n-paste for that handling
16:42	tadzik	scumbugs :)
16:42	thou	yeah
16:42	tadzik	thou: which lines?
16:42	tadzik	that's all my work, I'm afraid :)
16:42	masak	moritz: well, what it suggests is this. an OPP is a separate thing, like a grammar. you should be able to instantiate several of them from one grammar, and configure them with ops separately from each other.
16:43	thou	tadzik: e.g., L291
16:43	thou	[ [\n '=']? \h+ <colonpair> ]*
16:43	thou	that line shows up a lot
16:43	thou	and it's always missing $<spaces>
16:43	tadzik	yeah, that's wrong, indeed
16:44	thou	i think there's some kind of factoring out of the indenting that could be done
16:45	tadzik	indeed
16:45	tadzik	I'll make it work for now and refactor this thing on the YAPC
16:45	tadzik	or midway
16:45	tadzik	I'll need some sort of parametrized token
16:46	tadzik	like <configuration ($<spaces>)>
16:48	tadzik	I hope it could be done better than with some dynamic variable
16:50	tadzik	hah, token foo($a) { } just works :)
16:50	jnthn	We use it in several places :)
16:51	pmichaud	Rakudo's "for" eagerly evaluates its argument; mainly because we don't have a good handle on sink context yet.
16:52	pmichaud	no, wait, that's not right.
16:52	* pmichaud	checks.
16:52	pmichaud	(1) Rakudo's "for" is eagerly evaluated because we don't have a good handle on sink context yet.
16:53	pmichaud	(2) The implementation of ListIter also inadvertently causees its argument to be evaluated more eagerly than it should; I'm currently working on this.
16:54	pmichaud	but a lot of it is also tied up in getting Parcel and List handling worked out.
16:55	pmichaud	so yes, Rakudo cheats a bit by converting for something { block } into (something,).map( { block } ).eager
16:55	jeffreykegler	Big car show in Carmel today. Goodbye for now
16:56	* pmichaud	wonders if Carmel has one really big car that is being shown. :-)
16:56	TimToady	but it's acting like the eager is inside the .map rather than outside
16:56	pmichaud	I think that's due to the ListIter bug.
16:56	TimToady	more like (something).eager.map()
16:56	TimToady	okay
16:57	pmichaud	that one ought to be somewhat easier to fix.
16:57	pmichaud	once I get away from Texas I'm expecting to have a bit more tuits/time to work on these things :)
16:57	thou	tadzik: here's a hard one
16:57	thou	r: https://gist.github.com/3350812
16:57	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«Array.new(Pod::Block::Table.new(caption => Any, headers => Array.new("Superhero", "Secret Identity", "Superpower"), config => ("caption" => "'The Other Guys'").hash, content => Array.new(["B<The Shoveller>", "Eddie Stevens", "King Arthur's singing shovel"], ["Blue …
16:58	tadzik	okay, I hope it's not actually hard :)
16:58	pmichaud	I do wish my flight across the pond would have power, though. I might try bringing an extra battery.
16:58	tadzik	I'm spectesting the patch for the previous one
17:00	tadzik	thou++ #excellent bughunter
17:00	tadzik	or Warrior, as the Perl 6 MMORPG describes it
17:01	masak	heh.
17:02	masak	actually, The Warrior seems to be an application writer in general.
17:02	thou	tadzik: i was using this on S26 source: https://gist.github.com/3350872
17:02		cognominal__ joined #perl6
17:02	masak	but yes, that involves finding, fighting, and neutralizing a lot of bugs.
17:02	masak	Priests submit bug tickets, apparently.
17:03	thou	got onto that by wanting to hack on p6doc
17:03	thou	hehe
17:03	thou	sorry, masak, i should be doing that :-)
17:04	thou	tadzik: on the 3350812 issue, i really don't know how to fix it, because I think the table rows need to be merged first, and then their contents re-parsed as pod_textcontent
17:04	tadzik	nqp: my $a = Undef;
17:04	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 2, near " Undef;"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 21408 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:8190) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:326)␤»
17:04	tadzik	nqp: my $a := Undef;
17:04	p6eval	nqp: ( no output )
17:05	pmichaud	I guess I'm a "Mage". If I was associated with Apple then I'd be an iMage :-)
17:05	pmichaud	afk, kid pickup
17:05	tadzik	:>
17:05	masak	thou: I have no idea what you are apologizing for :P
17:05	thou	masak, for not being a priest in this instance, and just throwing bugs at tadzik instead of rakudobug
17:06	tadzik	that's better
17:06	tadzik	I forgot about tickets assigned to me :)
17:06	masak	pmichaud: I thought Smalltalk programmers were the one worrying about their image... :)
17:06	masak	thou: no, that's useful too.
17:06	tadzik	. o O ( if I'm not listening to Priest' request, does that make me an unbeliever in the game? :P )
17:07	thou	Heathen
17:07	masak	:D
17:07	masak	tadzik: nah, it just means you're not allowed a Christian burial...
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17:08	tadzik	oh noes
17:09	tadzik	nqp: return unless 1;
17:09	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "return unl"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 21408 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:8190) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:326)␤»
17:09	masak	nqp: return;
17:09	p6eval	nqp: ( no output )
17:09	tadzik	nqp: unless 1 { return };
17:09	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near "return };"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 21408 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:8190) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:326)␤»
17:09	masak	nqp: return; say("OH HAI")
17:09	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
17:09	tadzik	no unless I guess
17:09	tadzik	nqp: return if 1;
17:09	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "return if "␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 21408 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:8190) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:326)␤»
17:09	masak	tadzik: no, see above.
17:09	tadzik	nqp: if 1 { return }; # last chance...
17:09	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near "return }; "␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 21408 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:8190) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:326)␤»
17:09	masak	tadzik: no argumentless 'return'.
17:10	tadzik	a-ha
17:10	masak	tadzik: this has bitten me before.
17:10	* masak	.oO( it has bitten me and made me bitter... )
17:10	tadzik	now I need a full-blown, serialized Any :)
17:10	masak	heh :)
17:10	tadzik	or not
17:11	tadzik	I wonder what the spec says
17:11	thou	tadzik: is it easy to hook up --doc=Some::ModuleOrClass.routine and have DOC INIT (or whatever?) call routine($=pod) or similar?
17:12	tadzik	thou: why won't you just write class Some::ModuleOrClass { method render($pod) { ... } } ?
17:12	thou	um
17:12	tadzik	and if you're asking if it's easy to implement, then I guess it's possible
17:12	moritz	if you run rakudo with the --doc=Foo switch, it'll try to load the Pod::To::Foo module
17:12	thou	ah
17:12	thou	ok, that's what i was missing
17:13	thou	so htmlify.pl can actually call perl6 --doc=HTML instead of that nasty eval trick?
17:14	thou	(perl6/doc/htmlify.pl)
17:15	thou	my $pod = eval slurp($file.path) ~ "\n\$=pod";
17:15	thou	or should that be Perl6::Grammar.parse(...) somehow
17:15	tadzik	not really
17:15	tadzik	yes, it should, but it's not possible atm
17:15	tadzik	hence the hack
17:15	tadzik	(I think)
17:15	thou	OK
17:17	dalek	rakudo/nom: c07eba2 \| tadzik++ \| src/Perl6/ (3 files):
17:17	dalek	rakudo/nom: Refactor Pod configuration and make it more correct. thou++
17:17	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/c07eba2ca9
17:18	tadzik	thou: this fixes https://gist.github.com/3350658 partly, it still fails for the reason from your first gis
17:18	tadzik	gist
17:18	tadzik	I'll see if I can quick-fix the tables thing
17:20	tadzik	ah yes, table rows are post-processed, and for a reason
17:21	tadzik	that's hard indeed then :)
17:21		kaare__ joined #perl6
17:21	thou	:-)
17:21	tadzik	thou: could you open RT tickets for those two things? I'll promise to look at them at the YAPC
17:21	thou	pod_configuration looks good, tadzik++
17:22	tadzik	and if I don't, tell masak to smack me ;)
17:22	thou	tadzik: OK, will do (for the first and last ones I reported)
17:22	moritz	nr: say Inf cmp Inf
17:22	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b, niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«Same␤»
17:37	thou	tadzik: here's another, maybe it's related to the 1st: https://gist.github.com/3351102
17:38	tadzik	I think it may be to the spec actually
17:38	tadzik	while it's not really DWYM
17:40	thou	OK. then that one is a bug in S26 (to fix the diagram so it displays correctly)
17:42	tadzik	I may want to email-ask Damian about it actually
17:42	tadzik	but that comes tomorrow or later
17:42	tadzik	afk&
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17:57	TimToady	nr: say 'ˊ' ~~ /\w/
17:57	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«｢ˊ｣␤␤»
17:57	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«Match()␤»
17:57	* TimToady	wonders who is right
17:57	moritz	.u ˊ
17:57	phenny	U+02CA MODIFIER LETTER ACUTE ACCENT (ˊ)
17:58	TimToady	eval: 'ˊ' =~ /\w/
17:58	buubot_backup	TimToady: 1
17:58	TimToady	nieczabug, I suspect
17:58	moritz	p5 considers all modifiers \w
17:58	moritz	which kinda makes sense, so that \w+ matches a word that includes them
17:59	TimToady	that's why it says "MODIFIER LETTER"
17:59	dalek	doc: e9b61ab \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
17:59	dalek	doc: save a bit of duplicate work
17:59	dalek	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e9b61ab8c6
17:59	dalek	doc: 2ca51ac \| moritz++ \| htmlify.pl:
17:59	dalek	doc: distiniguish subs and methods, if we can
17:59	dalek	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2ca51ac7be
17:59	dalek	doc: adc0bd7 \| moritz++ \| lib/Str.pod:
17:59	dalek	doc: harmonize markup
17:59	dalek	doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/adc0bd7b28
17:59	TimToady	there are plenty of marks that aren't letters, of course
18:00	TimToady	std: my $fooˊ = 42;
18:00	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
18:00	TimToady	nieczabug then
18:01	moritz	nr: say so ' ̈' ~~ /\w/
18:01	p6eval	rakudo 94aa2b: OUTPUT«False␤»
18:01	p6eval	..niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:01	moritz	:-)
18:01	moritz	.u ̈
18:01	phenny	U+0020 SPACE ( )
18:01	phenny	U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS (◌̈)
18:02	TimToady	when we switch to NFG these should all just match \w when marking a letter as the base char
18:05	* colomon	wonders if he could sort out how to fix this in niecza....
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19:08	sorear	good * #perl6
19:09	colomon	\o
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19:44	[Coke]	is phasers dead?
19:45	[Coke]	#phasers, sorry.
19:46	masak	don't call it dead call it "a tradition worthy of a comeback" ;)
19:48	[Coke]	k.
19:49	moritz	it would have been 2 hours ago
19:49	moritz	and yes, I think we should have such meetings again
19:49	moritz	maybe not weekly
19:49	PerlJam	there are people joining #phasers all the time ... It can't be dead ;)
19:50	TimToady	it's...stable...
19:54	* [Coke]	tries to build std.
20:03		kaare__ joined #perl6
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20:06	japhb	moritz, http://doc.perl6.org/routine/Str is looking a bit like it has an echo ... can you get rid of the second level 'Str' headings underneath each 'Type.Str' heading? Might as well dump the 'From Type' line as well, since that's implied. You could make it fully parallel for subs by doing 'Type::Str' instead of 'Type.Str', so you don't have to have two code paths for method and sub.
20:11	moritz	japhb: dropping the second-level Str headings is non-trivial
20:11	moritz	japhb: and I've kept the "from" thing because it's a link
20:12		colomon joined #perl6
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20:19	japhb	moritz, sure, but the Type in 'Type.Str' should be that link.
20:20	japhb	And when I next have doc tuits, I can try thinking about the second level Str heading
20:20	* [Coke]	needs to change "make snaptest" in std. to use "prove"
20:23	japhb	moritz, actually, you could make the whole 'Type.Str' be a link to the other page, and start putting a '^Top' link in there somewhere (preferably de-emphasized so it doesn't compete)
20:43	TimToady	I have been saying that $ never interpolates in a list for many years now
20:43	TimToady	I don't see why this should be suddenly surprising
20:47	masak	the example `my $x := Array.new(1,2,3); for $x { .say }` surprises me.
20:47	masak	it surprises me that that flattens, I mean.
20:47	sorear	um
20:47	masak	r: my $x := Array.new(1,2,3); for $x { .say }
20:47	p6eval	rakudo c07eba: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
20:47	sorear	ahahahahaha
20:47	masak	n: my $x := Array.new(1,2,3); for $x { .say }
20:47	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to List.new, used 1 of 4 positionals␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (List.new @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/Ej1mH3vl0R line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3929 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /ho…
20:47	sorear	rn: my $x := [1,2,3]; for $x { .say }
20:47	p6eval	rakudo c07eba, niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
20:47	masak	niecza++
20:48	sorear	rn: my $x := [1,2,3].list; for $x { .say }
20:48	p6eval	niecza v19-21-gc86e8e5: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
20:48	p6eval	..rakudo c07eba: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
20:48	sorear	I feel vindicated
20:48	TimToady	just so you're not vindictive :)
20:48	sorear	in Rakudo, any Iterable instance that isn't wrapped in a container is considered flattening
20:49	sorear	in Niecza, flattening is strictly opt-in and the type of the object is irrelevant
20:49	sorear	now I _know_ my way is better :D
20:50	TimToady	well, at least for that example :)
20:54	sirrobert	what does "method !name ..." do? (the exclamation point)
20:54	sirrobert	private method?
20:54	sorear	yes
20:54	sirrobert	thanks
20:55	japhb	sirrobert, you have to call it as $obj!foo rather than $obj.foo if you declare it with that leading !
20:55	sirrobert	makes sense
20:55	sirrobert	oh, you can call it from outside?
20:55	sirrobert	not just self!foo?
20:56	sirrobert	hey, so I haven't been able to get DBIish or miniDBI to install because of an error with "NativeCall"
20:56	sorear	sirrobert: private methods are implicitly namespaces by the class
20:57	sirrobert	sorear: ok
20:57	sirrobert	I'm trying to work to a deadline at work; what's the best way to get some help with getting DBIish or miniDBI working?
20:57	sorear	$obj!foo means $obj!A::foo, where A is the statically enclosing class or GLOBAL if there is none
20:58	sorear	sirrobert: it sounds like your actual problem might be with NativeCall, so ping the NativeCall maintainer
20:58	sirrobert	sorear: ahh, that helps =)
20:58	sorear	jnthn: ping
20:58	sirrobert	good idea =) found it on github just now
20:59	sorear	$obj!SomeOtherClass::method is syntactically valid but requires a 'trusts UsingClass' declaration in SomeOtherClass's body
20:59	jnthn	sirrobert: Are you using the NativeCall/DBIish from the last Star release or bleeding edge stuff from repos?
21:00	sirrobert	hmm. I don't know =) "panda install DBIish" just failed
21:00	sirrobert	Also I tried "panda install NativeCall" which also failed
21:00	jnthn	OK, that'll be pulling the latest.
21:00	sirrobert	I can give you a bitbucket of the error if that helps
21:00	jnthn	Which, given arnsholt++ has been doing a load of work recently, means you probably need a very recent Rakudo/NQP too.
21:00	sirrobert	(I updated Rakudo to the latest, btw, and it still happened
21:01	sirrobert	Unrecognized nqp:: opcode 'nqp::nativecallrefresh' at line 274, near ";\n 1;\n}"
21:01	sirrobert	(that's the error)
21:01	sirrobert	woops... I'm driving the carpool today-- I'll ask again about it tomorrow.
21:02	sirrobert	thanks sorear and jnthn
21:02	jnthn	I think I see what may be up
21:02	sirrobert	I'll scroll back and read what you say in the morning =) thanks
21:02	jnthn	The last NQP_REVISION update was Sat Aug 11
21:02	jnthn	oh...
21:02	jnthn	But hmm
21:03	[Coke]	TimToady: any object to adding a "tools/testfile" to std that generates tap compliant output?
21:03	jnthn	yeah, it looks like the NQP_REVISION in Rakudo is up to date enough after all :S
21:04	* jnthn	is confused, then.
21:04	[Coke]	(then I can run "prove -r -e tools/testfile ../roast")
21:05	[Coke]	... this is not going to be a clean run. :\|
21:07		cognominal joined #perl6
21:08	[Coke]	so, there's really no way to get a clean run of std against roast, is there?
21:08	[Coke]	since roast is explicitly testing broken things to make sure they're broken.
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21:21	jeffreykegler	pmichaud: I found out about the "big car show" in Carmel that you'd wondered about
21:22	jeffreykegler	pmichaud: It's the operator precedence parse, not the LL one
21:24		bruges joined #perl6
21:29	sorear	[Coke]: anything which is supposed to not compile should be wrapped in eval_dies_ok so that std will ignore it
21:30	sorear	std USED to run over the spectests fine,it even has a test script
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22:03	masak	'night, #perl6
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22:24	TimToady	well, it never really got above about 93% of the .t files parsing
22:27	[Coke]	TimToady: we
22:27	[Coke]	'll fix that.
22:27	TimToady	though roughly half of the problems are really test problems
22:28	TimToady	Placeholder variable $^a may not be used here because the surrounding block takes no signature at /home/larry/perl6/roast/S32-list/sort.t line 147:
22:30	TimToady	Variable $.cool used where no 'self' is available at /home/larry/perl6/roast/S12-traits/parameterized.t line 19:
22:30	TimToady	Too late for semicolon form of class definition at /home/larry/perl6/roast/S12-attributes/undeclared.t line 16:
22:30	TimToady	things like that
22:32	TimToady	a lot of it is just missing library support
22:32	TimToady	or CORE not being entirely up-to-day
22:33	[Coke]	http://feather.perl6.nl/~coke/std.fails
22:33	[Coke]	(the end of a test run, because I had to rely on screen hardcopy to get it.)
22:34	[Coke]	let me rerun capturing the whole thing.
22:36	[Coke]	there's "make snaptest", but it's not using prove.
22:45	[Coke]	if eval_dies_ok works in std, then we should be able to get it 100%. \o/
22:46	[Coke]	once I get the run, I'll invert the warnings so they're grouped by type, and folks can clean up the tests.
22:46	[Coke]	(or std, whichever.)
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23:08	raiph	phenny: tell pmichaud the 5 appears on supervisor's tees which are yellow, not the tees for sale; if you are getting yellow tees for sale with a big 6 on them, i think u should let the organizers know asap
23:08	phenny	raiph: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
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23:33	[Coke]	http://feather.perl6.nl/~coke/std.fails updated with all the fails
23:36	dalek	roast: ff41d5c \| coke++ \| S02-lexical-conventions/comments.t:
23:36	dalek	roast: Fix typo found by std++
23:36	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ff41d5c130
23:37		skids joined #perl6
23:38	[Coke]	std: my $var := LAZY { $was_in_lazy++; 42 };
23:38	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤Variable $was_in_lazy is not predeclared at /tmp/Ls3i_Y_FfN line 1:â�¤------> my $var := LAZY { â��$was_in_lazy++; 42 };â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤ 'LAZY' used at line 1â�¤Check failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 42mâ�¤Â»
23:40	[Coke]	phenny: ask moritz : you added LAZY to S04-statements/lazy.t, but it's not spec, or recognized by std. Where's the bug?
23:40	phenny	[Coke]: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
23:48	[Coke]	std; multi with_cap($a,$b,\|$cap) { return with_cap($a + $b, \|$cap) }
23:48	[Coke]	std: multi with_cap($a,$b,\|$cap) { return with_cap($a + $b, \|$cap) }
23:48	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤ Unsupported use of \| with sigil; nowadays please use \| without sigil at /tmp/01L51Tx4vu line 1:â�¤------> multi with_cap($a,$b,\|$capâ��) { return with_cap($a + $b, \|$cap) }â�¤ok 00:00 45mâ�¤Â»
23:49	[Coke]	std: multi with_cap($a,$b,\|cap) { return with_cap($a + $b, \|$cap) }
23:49	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤Variable $cap is not predeclared at /tmp/DF0rXtDj44 line 1:â�¤------> $a,$b,\|cap) { return with_cap($a + $b, \|â��$cap) }â�¤Check failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 45mâ�¤Â»
23:49	[Coke]	std: multi with_cap($a,$b,\|cap) { return with_cap($a + $b, \|cap) }
23:49	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 45m␤»
23:49	[Coke]	O_o
23:49	[Coke]	. o O (I don't know what \|cap means.)
23:50	benabik	std: multi with_cap($a,$b,\|cap) { return with_cap($a + $b, cap) }
23:50	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 45m␤»
23:50	benabik	Flatten the capture into the call?
23:50	[Coke]	benabik: there's a few tests in roast that have that and probably need updating.
23:55	[Coke]	std: mkdir("hi")
23:55	p6eval	std 235f71b: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤ 'mkdir' used at line 1â�¤Check failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 41mâ�¤Â»
23:55	[Coke]	looks like mkdir is no longer a function, per std and the spec, aye?
23:58	dalek	roast: 98e812a \| coke++ \| / (2 files):
23:58	dalek	roast: ucfirst is gone, wrap tc instead
23:58	dalek	roast:
23:58	dalek	roast: std++
23:58	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/98e812ac8f
23:59	sorear	jnthn: around by any chance?

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