Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-09-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:15 colomon rn: say 2 ** 78
01:15 p6eval rakudo 097361, niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«302231454903657293676544␤»
01:19 colomon rn: say (2 ** 157).log10
01:19 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«47.261709319245␤»
01:19 p6eval ..niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«47.261709319245043␤»
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01:51 bugger hi perl6
01:51 sorear hello bugger.
01:52 sorear welcome to #perl6.
01:52 bugger a LWP::Simple install error. https://gist.github.com/3747164
01:53 bugger good morning sorear!
01:54 bugger sorear:can you help me?
01:55 sorear I cannot personally help you, I don't know anything about LWP::Simple
01:55 bugger sorear:that's too bad.
01:56 sorear cosimo: tadzik: ping
01:56 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
01:58 bugger sorear: bye! anyway. thanks.
01:58 sorear bah!
02:02 * colomon was going to try to build a copy locally, but wasn't fast enough.
02:02 orafu joined #perl6
02:03 sorear hopefully ey'll be back.
02:06 ingy anyone know what channels fglock is on?
02:08 sorear I think fglock just doesn't like IRC in general
02:08 doy seen fglock
02:08 aloha fglock was last seen in #perl6 7 days 8 hours ago joining the channel.
02:09 gootle joined #perl6
02:09 sorear he talked more in Perl than I've ever seen on irc
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04:35 Circlepuller__ r: printf "%c", <7 ''>
04:35 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«»
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04:47 yarp r: say "good morning";
04:47 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«good morning␤»
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05:00 moritz \o
05:08 FROGGS joined #perl6
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05:49 GlitchMr Cannot locate native library 'libmysqlclient.so'
05:49 GlitchMr Interesting :-)
05:55 dalek nqp: 8d5e5ff | moritz++ | / (2 files):
05:55 dalek nqp: bump parrot revision to release
05:55 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8d5e5ff154
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06:25 GlitchMr Uhmmm... ? doesn't work in SQLite...
06:25 GlitchMr Interesting
06:25 GlitchMr method do(Str $statement, $attr?, *@bind is copy) {
06:25 GlitchMr my $sth = self.prepare($statement);
06:25 GlitchMr $sth.execute(@bind);
06:25 GlitchMr But... shouldn't it have prepared statements
06:26 nodmonkey joined #perl6
06:26 tadzik sorear: pong
06:26 sorear tadzik: you're too late, sorry
06:26 tadzik bah
06:27 sorear someone came in with panda/LWP-Simple trouble, but they already gave up and left
06:27 tadzik shame
06:27 GlitchMr http://www.php.net/manual/en/sqlite3stmt.execute.php
06:27 tadzik yeah, seems like it fails tests
06:27 GlitchMr Oh, there are no prepared statements
06:27 GlitchMr like that
06:30 GlitchMr also...
06:30 GlitchMr return ($rows == 0) ?? "0E0" !! $rows;
06:30 GlitchMr Shouldn't it be $rows but True?
06:41 GlitchMr std: /\0/
06:41 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
06:41 GlitchMr rakudo: /\0/
06:41 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized backslash sequence at line 2, near "/"␤»
06:46 GlitchMr https://gist.github.com/3748052
06:46 GlitchMr I'm almost sure I'm bored
06:47 sorear n: /\0/
06:47 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6:  ( no output )
06:48 sorear rn: say "\0".ord
06:48 p6eval rakudo 097361, niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«0␤»
06:48 sorear rn: eval "/\\\0/"
06:48 p6eval rakudo 097361, niecza v21-15-gf226bf6:  ( no output )
06:48 sorear GlitchMr: rakudobug
06:50 sorear eval eval "/\\\0/"
06:50 buubot_backup sorear: No output.
06:51 sorear eval eval "/\0/"
06:51 buubot_backup sorear: No output.
06:51 sorear buubot_backup:  eval "/\0/"
06:51 buubot_backup sorear: /\0/
06:51 sorear buubot_backup:  eval "/\\\0/"
06:51 buubot_backup sorear: /\\0/
06:51 sorear buubot_backup: ref eval "/\\\0/"
06:51 buubot_backup sorear: Couldn't match input.
06:51 sorear buubot_backup: eval eval "/\\\0/"
06:51 buubot_backup sorear: No output.
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06:55 GlitchMr Type check failed in assignment to '$!orm'; expected 'ORM' but got 'MiniDBI::ORM'
06:55 GlitchMr has MiniDBI::ORM $.orm;
06:55 GlitchMr Hmmm... interesting
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07:05 GlitchMr > $db.table('a').insert(:cake<b>)
07:05 GlitchMr INSERT INTO `a` (`cake`) VALUES ('b')
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07:13 cosimo sorear: pong
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07:54 stephaaan hi :)
07:55 moritz hello
07:55 masak mornin'
07:56 stephaaan just a probably noobish question - http://pastie.org/4752245 - lets say, connector is a variable - how do I change {connector}? {$connector} wont work :/
07:57 moritz stephaaan: that looks like Perl 5 code, but #perl6 is, as the name implies, about Perl 6
07:57 stephaaan uhm...well :D
07:58 moritz too late to him somewhere else
07:59 moritz *to point him
07:59 * moritz still wonders why people simply ignore the 6 in #perl6
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08:00 fragginaut sorry, got kicked :)
08:00 fragginaut < stephaaan
08:02 moritz fragginaut: you could try #perl-help on irc.perl.org
08:02 moritz fragginaut: there's also a #perl channel here on freenode, but it used to have a bad reputation -- not sure if that's still the case
08:02 tadzik not really, I think
08:03 moritz that's good
08:03 tadzik I sit there these days and it's pretty newbie-friendly I guess
08:03 moritz or maybe I've confused it with #perl on irc.perl.org
08:03 tadzik the word "tutorial" tends to ignite negative emotions sometimes ;)
08:05 masak tadzik: why?
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08:07 tadzik masak: "I found this code in some Perl tutorial on the web" => "OH GODS NO"
08:07 tadzik ;)
08:13 masak aha. yes, well.
08:13 sorear o/ masak
08:13 masak yo sorear.
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08:13 * masak .oO( "it's fine to write baby Perl at first" -- later -- "OH GODS NO" )
08:14 sorear and with that.  sleep&
08:14 huf baby english is fine, babies do it. baby old english is a bit odd, and that's what happens when people follow perl4 tutorials ;)
08:17 moritz well, baby perl is a bit like baby english interpreted by automatic voice recognition on a phone hotline
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09:17 kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people
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10:45 flussence DBD::Pg:lang<perl5> is starting to annoy me, now that I want to do interesting stuff with it :(
10:46 hoelzro hi Perl6 folk
10:46 moritz use DBIish; # :-)
10:47 moritz hello hoelzro
10:47 hoelzro I'm having an issue install Rakudo *
10:47 hoelzro http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0DbsP9AZ
10:47 hoelzro I get that error message when running 'make install' with Rakudo * 2012.08
10:48 timotimo why does it use /usr/bin/nqp and not the one in your rakudo star?
10:48 hoelzro because I told it to
10:53 hoelzro I built my own NQP from 2012.08.1
10:53 hoelzro (this is more agreeable with my package manager)
10:54 moritz that's while building the debugger, right?
10:55 hoelzro looks like
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11:08 hoelzro any ideas?
11:09 moritz I'd have to look closer at the star build system
11:09 moritz but currently at $work
11:09 hoelzro ok
11:09 hoelzro well, no rush =)
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11:23 moritz http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-09-18#i_5997793
11:24 moritz timotimo: the reason that rand() isn't supported is that if rand were a subroutine and not a term, rand + 2 would be parsed as rand(+2)
11:24 moritz I'm not sure that's a convincing argument, but at least there is a reason
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11:42 flussence plus, what would you expect rand(2) to return? an Int? Num? 0..2 or 0..^2?
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11:44 masak I've never been a fan of rand(2). as flussence++ points out, there isn't an obvious connection between the positional argument and the return value.
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12:00 pmurias jnthn: I have started writing a simple QAST dumper: http://pastie.org/4753127
12:01 mst masak: usually I'd rather have pick_one_at_random_of(0..2) or something
12:01 moritz nr: say (0..2).pick for ^5
12:01 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤1␤1␤»
12:01 p6eval ..rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤1␤0␤»
12:02 colomon rakudo: say (0..2).rand for ^5
12:02 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«0.254855078400407␤1.62576730786023␤0.0954455466693709␤2.57372621380713␤1.8109134963372␤»
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12:07 flussence r: (^5).pick xx 5
12:07 p6eval rakudo 097361:  ( no output )
12:07 flussence r: say (^5).pick xx 5
12:07 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«3 3 1 0 3␤»
12:08 flussence that ^/. precedence feels a bit weird
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12:13 masak mst: right.
12:22 Su-Shee masak: are you still hacking javascript stuff?
12:22 masak Su-Shee: yeah.
12:23 Su-Shee masak: in case you need more gui -> jquery ui just convinced me with _1_ (one) line of code (instead of 150 if I'd done it myself.. :)
12:24 Su-Shee masak: 1 line for a complex gui feature is .. less isn't possible. ;)
12:41 masak Su-Shee: I like the idea of jQuery UI, but I've had mixed success with it so far.
12:41 masak Su-Shee: submitted my first bug report to it five minutes after picking it up ;)
12:42 Su-Shee masak: uh, ah :) well I just used "sortable" which gives me in one line of code "drag item elsewhere, push other items automatically aside, drop item there" to re-arrange items. it also snaps automatically back and such. _one_ line of code.
12:42 masak Su-Shee: the direction I'm persuing right now isn't "more GUI", but rather "more structure to build on". knockout.js seems a fine choice for that.
12:43 Su-Shee masak: I have to refactor a complex gui.. think excel/table/arrangements of items..
12:43 masak Su-Shee: yeah. the impressive thing about jQuery UI is how much is already there.
12:44 Su-Shee masak: it's not even really "G" of "UI" but just behavior...
12:45 Su-Shee it's fascinating how creative js developers have gotten ever since it took off again and how much the language still allows to cleanup things and make nicer libs.
12:47 mst masak: somewhat
12:47 mst masak: I was planning to look at angularjs
12:48 mst masak: it seemed to fit my brain and audrey seems to like it
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12:49 masak mst: I've looked at it briefly too. it's in the same problem space as knockout.js, for sure.
12:50 masak mst: currently I'm enamoured with knockout.js's dependency handling. it's not often nowadays that I feel I learn something both new and fundamental, but knockout's algo for dependency handling qualifies.
12:50 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
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12:50 mst got a URL for that?
12:50 masak yes, hold on.
12:50 pmurias joined #perl6
12:50 masak http://knockoutjs.com/documentation/computedObservables.html -- heading "How Dependency Tracking Works"
12:53 benabik joined #perl6
12:54 Su-Shee ah, you mentioned that on twitter a couple of days ago, didn't you?
12:56 gongyiliao joined #perl6
12:59 masak I did.
13:00 masak I think the idea transcends knockout.js and is usable in a lot of places where observers are involved.
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13:01 Su-Shee I like observers anyways. :)
13:01 Su-Shee not just in Fringe. ;)
13:03 FROGGS can somebody please help me? Inline.pm and NativeCall.pm are exporting trait_mod <is>, and when I run for example: perl6 -MInline -MNativeCall -e '1'
13:03 FROGGS I get: Cannot import symbol '&trait_mod:<is>' from package 'NativeCall', since it already exists in the lexpad
13:03 * masak learns about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_(TV_series)
13:04 tadzik FROGGS: did you declare them as multi?
13:04 FROGGS right
13:04 tadzik dunno
13:04 FROGGS identically to traits.pm and NativeCall.pm
13:04 masak Su-Shee: have you read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They're_Made_Out_of_Meat ?
13:04 masak seeing the Observers reminded me of that :)
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13:05 FROGGS I dont know if thats that diamond-inclusion-thingy or not, I just dont know what to do
13:05 masak FROGGS: feels like a bug to me.
13:06 FROGGS :/
13:06 * masak tries to reproduce it with non-trait_mod multis.
13:06 Su-Shee masak: no, I didn't.
13:06 masak Su-Shee: it's quite a short read (linked from the Wikipedia article). recommended.
13:08 Su-Shee masak: "uh" "entirely written in dialogue" .. That's a literature style I absolutely hate to read...:(
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13:12 masak sorry to hear that. I just re-read it, and it's as good as I remembered it.
13:14 benabik There are a couple films of it on youtube.
13:14 benabik Dialog is much easier to listen/watch.
13:14 masak oh, I forgot to mention that.
13:15 masak yeah. the ones I've seen are (1) a surreal version from the 80's involving, I think, a fez, and (2) a black-and-white newer one which had quite a bit of ambience to it.
13:16 masak I think I'm fond of literature that highlights our cultural chauvinism in various ways.
13:16 masak or perhaps "bias" is more accurate.
13:17 benabik The one I'm watching is just lights in space.
13:17 jaldhar joined #perl6
13:18 * masak .oO( aren't we all )
13:20 benabik o/~ We Are All Made of Stars o/~
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13:24 [Coke] thanks for getting that auto tune stuck in my head!
13:24 * [Coke] . o O (grumble)
13:26 PerlJam [Coke]: Here, this will get it unstuck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0   ;>
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13:43 [Coke] if you're having fencepost errors I feel bad for you son -- I got 99 problems but somehow solved 101. (found in today's xkcd)
13:46 pmurias mst: having used angularjs for 2 (not very big apps), I rather like it, but it seems to impose a lot of structure and requires more thought to use then hacking things together with jquery
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14:25 mst pmurias: I tend to like libraries that require structured thinking
14:30 sirrobert What's that good operator to turn two arrays into a hash (arr1 is keys, arr2 is values) ?
14:30 masak sirrobert: Z=>
14:30 sirrobert thanks =)
14:30 sirrobert What does the Z mean?
14:30 flussence r: my @a1 = 'a'..'z'; my @a2 = 0..*; say %(@a1 Z=> @a2);
14:30 GlitchMr joined #perl6
14:30 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«("a" => 0, "b" => 1, "c" => 2, "d" => 3, "e" => 4, "f" => 5, "g" => 6, "h" => 7, "i" => 8, "j" => 9, "k" => 10, "l" => 11, "m" => 12, "n" => 13, "o" => 14, "p" => 15, "q" => 16, "r" => 17, "s" => 18, "t" => 19, "u" => 20, "v" => 21, "w" => 22, "x" => 23, "y" => 24,…
14:31 masak sirrobert: "zipwith"
14:31 sirrobert oh, I'll remember that (I hope =)
14:31 sirrobert thanks, both
14:31 masak r: .say for 100, 200, 300 Z+ 3, 2, 1
14:31 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«103␤202␤301␤»
14:32 flussence .oO( ...at $dayjob the structure used for libraries is usually a heap )
14:32 pmichaud even plain 'Z' works:
14:32 sirrobert Z makes a new array?
14:32 pmichaud r: my @a1 = 'a'..'z';  my @a2 = 0..*;  say %(@a1 Z @a2)
14:32 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«("a" => 0, "b" => 1, "c" => 2, "d" => 3, "e" => 4, "f" => 5, "g" => 6, "h" => 7, "i" => 8, "j" => 9, "k" => 10, "l" => 11, "m" => 12, "n" => 13, "o" => 14, "p" => 15, "q" => 16, "r" => 17, "s" => 18, "t" => 19, "u" => 20, "v" => 21, "w" => 22, "x" => 23, "y" => 24,…
14:32 sirrobert ohh
14:32 sirrobert you hashed explicitly
14:32 pmichaud Z creates a list consisting of the elements from each list interleaved
14:33 sirrobert say (1, 2, 3) Z=> (<a b c>);
14:33 sirrobert r: say (1, 2, 3) Z=> (<a b c>);
14:33 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«1 a 2     b 3     c␤»
14:33 sirrobert r: say %((1, 2, 3) Z=> (<a b c>));
14:33 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«("1" => "a", "2" => "b", "3" => "c").hash␤»
14:33 sirrobert ok, thanks
14:33 dayangkun joined #perl6
14:33 sirrobert so Z=> pairs them
14:33 sirrobert but it's a list of pairs, rather than a hash
14:33 pmichaud Z produces lists... one has to explicitly coerce to a hash for either Z=> or Z
14:33 GlitchMr (1, 2, 3, 4 Z~ 5, 6, 7, 8).perl.say
14:33 pmichaud sirrobert: exactly right.
14:33 GlitchMr perl6: (1, 2, 3, 4 Z~ 5, 6, 7, 8).perl.say
14:33 p6eval rakudo 097361, niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«("15", "26", "37", "48").list␤»
14:33 sirrobert pmichaud, ok, great
14:34 GlitchMr perl6: (1, 2, 3, 4 »+« 5, 6, 7, 8).perl.say
14:34 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 9, 6, 7, 8)␤»
14:34 p6eval ..rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, (9,).list, 6, 7, 8)␤»
14:34 GlitchMr perl6: ((1, 2, 3, 4) »+« (5, 6, 7, 8)).perl.say
14:34 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«[6, 8, 10, 12].list␤»
14:34 p6eval ..rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«(6, 8, 10, 12).list␤»
14:34 GlitchMr Precedence :-)
14:35 dayangkun joined #perl6
14:35 masak GlitchMr: right. the X and Z operators are low-precedence. the »« operators aren't.
14:37 sirrobert So is Z a "metaoperator?"
14:38 masak aye.
14:38 sirrobert I guess it's both
14:38 sirrobert Z by itself is an operator, but it can take an op to go meta.
14:38 colomon just like X
14:38 sirrobert What's X? =)
14:38 GlitchMr Many operators can take other operator in name
14:38 moritz cross
14:38 GlitchMr Well, even = in C did that
14:38 masak sirrobert: well, infix:<Z> is just sugar for infix:<Z,>
14:38 sirrobert hmmm
14:38 sirrobert ok, I will have to play with that before my head asplode.
14:39 moritz http://doc.perl6.org/language/operators#infix+X
14:39 moritz http://doc.perl6.org/language/operators#infix+Z
14:39 GlitchMr What is so difficult about that. Z+ is similar to += in being meta operator
14:40 masak indeed.
14:40 sirrobert added two pages to my p6 blog (http://6ing.org):  "Wish List" (stuff that would be super helpful to have available) and "Butter" (personal favorite features already available).
14:40 sirrobert adding "Butter" now, actually
14:40 masak all of the metaoperator stuff can be seen as a generalization of += et al.
14:40 masak sirrobert++
14:41 sirrobert GlitchMr: It's not difficult, it's powerful =)
14:41 pmichaud wow, five tweets from TimToady++ about the 47% .  :-)
14:42 GlitchMr Almost every language which inherited from C has operators like +=
14:42 GlitchMr That includes Python
14:42 GlitchMr (except in Python assignment is statement)
14:45 sirrobert moritz:  typo in http://doc.perl6.org/language/operators#infix+X (I think)
14:46 sirrobert the infix definition says <Z> instead of <X>
14:50 GlitchMr What happened to dalek?
14:50 dayangkun joined #perl6
14:50 * masak .oO( the Doctor )
14:50 tadzik :D
14:50 GlitchMr Also, wow, I wanted to make identical commit to your, masak. But you were faster
14:51 GlitchMr So,  ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast-forward) happened
14:51 GlitchMr I've done git pull --rebase
14:51 FROGGS masak: about my issue, there is a "# XXX TODO: Merge handling." in World.pm#L260 :o)
14:51 GlitchMr And my commit mysteriously disappeared from logs
14:51 GlitchMr Probably GitHub has noticed it's identical
14:51 moritz not github
14:51 GlitchMr Git*
14:51 moritz git
14:51 GlitchMr lol
14:52 moritz the --rebase throws away identical commits
14:52 masak GlitchMr: I didn't make that commit now. I must've made it ages ago.
14:53 masak FROGGS: d'oh!
14:53 GlitchMr Date:   Wed Sep 19 16:48:39 2012 +0200
14:53 GlitchMr fix typo, sirrobert++
14:53 GlitchMr But I don't see it on GitHub... I'm confused
14:54 GlitchMr (also, yes, I've posted it so sirrobert would get positive karma - dalek wasn't there so sirrobert would get karma)
14:54 GlitchMr "Page did not respond in a timely fashion."
14:54 raiph joined #perl6
14:54 GlitchMr oh, ok
14:58 raiph GlitchMr++ # Perl 6 changes - 2012W37
14:58 phenny raiph: 18 Sep 12:42Z <[Coke]> ask raiph if I should add http://blogs.perl.org/users/perl_6_reports/ to planetsi
14:59 GlitchMr https://status.github.com/ - git is red
14:59 dalek doc: 162131a | moritz++ | lib/operators.pod:
14:59 dalek doc: fix typo, sirrobert++
14:59 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/162131ac4d
14:59 GlitchMr That sounds... oh wait
15:01 GlitchMr Next Perl 6 changes report will be on 23.09.2012
15:04 benabik_ joined #perl6
15:04 kresike bye folks
15:06 sirrobert r: my @arr; @arr.push(%(a => 1, b => 2));  say @arr.perl;
15:06 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Array.new("a" => 1, "b" => 2)␤»
15:06 sirrobert I expected that to give me an array with one element that was a hash
15:06 sirrobert what did I do wrong?
15:07 sirrobert or maybe:  how should I think about that?
15:07 masak push expects a list of things. if it finds a hash, it listifies the hash.
15:08 sirrobert ok, how do I get it not to listify things?
15:08 sirrobert if I want an array of hashes
15:08 masak r: my @a; @a.push({ a => 1, b => 2}); say @a.perl
15:08 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Array.new({"a" => 1, "b" => 2})␤»
15:08 sirrobert ok
15:08 sirrobert so what I really have is:
15:09 sirrobert r: my @a; @a.push(%((1,2,3) Z=> (<a b c>))); say @a.perl;
15:09 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Array.new("1" => "a", "2" => "b", "3" => "c")␤»
15:09 sirrobert is the "right" solution here to create the hash separately?  but it still gets expanded...
15:09 sirrobert I think
15:09 masak yeah.
15:09 masak r: my @a; my %h = (1,2,3) Z=> (<a b c>); @a.push(%h); say @a.perl
15:09 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Array.new("1" => "a", "2" => "b", "3" => "c")␤»
15:09 masak indeed.
15:10 masak r: my @a; my %h = (1,2,3) Z=> (<a b c>); @a.push({%h}); say @a.perl
15:10 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Array.new({"1" => "a", "2" => "b", "3" => "c"})␤»
15:10 sirrobert ohh.. weird
15:10 sirrobert ok, I can live with that =)
15:11 GlitchMr I would like have report for that commit - https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ec413efe4fad4bbc03d203eeba6018e957ea5615
15:11 GlitchMr Why it was clobbering GLOBAL before?
15:11 pmichaud r:  my @a;  @a.push({ (1,2,3) Z <a b c> });  say @a.perl
15:11 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Array.new(Block.new())␤»
15:11 moritz sirrobert: what's weird about it?
15:11 GlitchMr (and when?)
15:11 sirrobert the {%} seems redundant
15:11 moritz well, the {} makes an hash-in-an-item
15:11 sirrobert moritz: a workaround for the listification magic of push
15:11 moritz you can also say %h.item
15:12 sirrobert ok, that's a good paradigm for me to adopt for it
15:12 sirrobert I didn't previously have a concept of 'item'
15:12 yarp r: (<1 2 3> Z* <4 5 6>).say;
15:12 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«4 10 18␤»
15:13 yarp r: [+](<1 2 3> Z* <4 5 6>).say;
15:13 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«32␤»
15:13 sirrobert huh... push({%...}) interprets it as a hash but push: {%...} interprets it as a block
15:14 moritz that's weird
15:14 sirrobert verifying now ...
15:14 moritz r: my @h; @h.push: {%*ENV}; say @h[0].WHAT
15:14 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
15:14 GlitchMr Oh, I cannot read - it was 'require'
15:15 moritz r: my @h; @h.push({%*ENV}); say @h[0].WHAT
15:15 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
15:15 moritz sirrobert: seems to be a block either way :(
15:15 moritz r: my %a; my @h; @h.push({%a}); say @h[0].WHAT
15:15 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
15:15 moritz r: my %a; my @h; @h.push: {%a}; say @h[0].WHAT
15:15 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
15:15 moritz erm, what?
15:15 sirrobert moritz: erm, indeed =)
15:16 moritz %*ENV makes it a block, %a a hash?
15:16 * moritz smeells a rakudobug
15:18 sirrobert r: my $h = {%(<a b>) Z=> (1,2)}; say $h.WHAT;
15:18 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
15:19 masak moritz: that feels buggish, yes.
15:19 masak moritz: care to report it?
15:19 sirrobert sure
15:19 yarp r: my Num @ar = <3 4 5>; push @ar, [+]@ar; @ar.say
15:19 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/Yok24T4aEW:1␤»
15:19 sirrobert if I copy/paste this discussion is that enough?  I don't quite know how to describe it.
15:19 moritz yes, it's enough
15:20 sirrobert ok, one sec
15:21 raiph "if I copy/paste this discussion is that enough?  I don't quite know how to describe it." lol (or is that loh?)
15:21 yarp nr: my Num @ar = <3 4 5>; @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;
15:22 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$v'; expected 'Num' but got 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/UI1lugx09V:1␤␤»
15:22 p6eval ..niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«3 4 5 12␤»
15:22 * moritz doesn't get the funny part -- we do that all the time in bug reports
15:22 sirrobert posted
15:22 moritz r: my Num @ar = <3 4 5>
15:22 p6eval rakudo 097361:  ( no output )
15:22 masak sirrobert++
15:22 moritz masak: another bug report, it seems :-)
15:22 yarp So what is the Num used for?
15:22 diakopter I just submitted a new bug for nqp; it's kindof odd
15:22 moritz (the my Num @ar)
15:22 diakopter https://github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/55
15:23 moritz yarp: whatever you usually use floating-point numbers for
15:23 yarp nr: my Num @ar = <3 4 5>; @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;
15:23 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$v'; expected 'Num' but got 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/oV1hsT_L7A:1␤␤»
15:23 p6eval ..niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«3 4 5 12␤»
15:23 moritz nqp: say('¢'~"\n");
15:23 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Invalid character in ASCII string␤»
15:23 yarp Look, It didn't work;
15:24 moritz yarp: yes, because you typed it Num, but didn't give it a Num
15:24 yarp [+] @ar is not a number ???
15:25 moritz it's a number, but not Num
15:25 diakopter moritz: it started happening in the last week
15:25 diakopter wasn't happening beofre
15:25 moritz yarp: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Num
15:26 yarp 3 4 5 is Num , But sum them is not Num, so the Num maybe useless.
15:26 cosimo joined #perl6
15:26 moritz Num isn't useless. It's very useful for things you're not thinking of right now
15:26 moritz but it's a bug that rakudo doesn't complain about the list assignment already
15:30 GlitchMr If you want numeric values, see Numeric
15:30 GlitchMr Also, <3 4 5> are strings
15:30 sqirrel joined #perl6
15:31 GlitchMr I think that there is :val modifier for q, but it isn't yet implemented anywhere
15:31 mucker joined #perl6
15:31 yarp Rakudo didn't complain.
15:31 GlitchMr std: qw:val<3 4 5>
15:31 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized quote modifier: val at /tmp/Kbu0SSvFHh line 1:�------> [32mqw[33m�[31m:val<3 4 5>[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
15:31 GlitchMr std: qw:v<3 4 5>
15:31 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized quote modifier: v at /tmp/5KcKblIyLU line 1:�------> [32mqw[33m�[31m:v<3 4 5>[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
15:32 GlitchMr http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#The_%3Aval_modifier
15:32 GlitchMr Uhmmm...
15:32 masak n: say <3 4 5>.perl
15:32 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«(val("3"), val("4"), val("5"))␤»
15:32 masak GlitchMr: Niecza implements val()
15:32 yarp I see.
15:33 yarp nr: my Num @ar = (3, 4, 5); @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;
15:33 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed initializer at /tmp/jo4Jz0Rr2J line 1:�------> [32mmy Num @ar [33m�[31m= (3, 4, 5); @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;[0m��Parse failed��»
15:33 p6eval ..rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed initializer␤at /tmp/hEOiRhcfsQ:1␤»
15:33 yarp nr: my Num @ar = (3, 4, 5); @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;
15:33 p6eval niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Confused at /tmp/U3I78ztYpL line 1:�------> [32mmy Num @ar = (3[33m�[31m, 4, 5); @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;[0m��Parse failed��»
15:33 p6eval ..rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed initializer␤at /tmp/06dug8M__8:1␤»
15:34 GlitchMr masak: yes, but not :val modifier
15:34 moritz .u ,
15:34 phenny U+FF0C FULLWIDTH COMMA (,)
15:34 moritz yarp: it'd help to use normal commas
15:34 yarp nr: my Num @ar = (3, 4, 5); @ar[3] = [+] @ar; @ar.say;
15:34 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$v'; expected 'Num' but got 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/ObinFSoXTw:1␤␤»
15:34 p6eval ..niecza v21-15-gf226bf6: OUTPUT«3 4 5 12␤»
15:35 * moritz wonders how much longer yarp wants to beat a dead horse
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes: d721657 | GlitchMr++ | _posts/2012-09-23-perl-6-changes-2012W38.md:
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes: Placeholder Perl 6 changes for 2012W38 page
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes:
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes: Currently, not much was mentioned on this page, but I've made this
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes: branch so you can read it and report any bugs with this list if you
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes: will find any (like spelling errors or factual errors).
15:36 dalek glitchmr.github.com/perl6-changes: review: https://github.com/GlitchMr/glitchmr.github.com/commit/d7216570f7
15:36 GlitchMr wow, that's long repository name
15:36 masak GlitchMr: right, but saying <3 4 5> are strings is only half the truth.
15:36 GlitchMr Possibly <3 4 5>».Int would work
15:36 GlitchMr (putting ugliness of that aside)
15:37 GlitchMr Or simply 3, 4, 5
15:38 GlitchMr Previously, I have published page at end of week. This time I want to do that earlier, except without actually publishing it.
15:38 masak a "draft".
15:38 GlitchMr Yes
15:39 GlitchMr And because git is easy, merging it will be like 'git merge perl6-changes'
15:39 moritz r: my Int @a = 'ab', 'cd';
15:39 p6eval rakudo 097361:  ( no output )
15:39 GlitchMr And I can reuse this branch after merging :-)
15:39 * moritz submits rakudobug
15:39 GlitchMr Strings are new Integers
15:40 yarp I try in my box, Can't work also.
15:40 GlitchMr r: my Int = 'ab' # just testing, I don't expect success
15:40 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my␤at /tmp/ztPMW9ME7P:1␤»
15:40 GlitchMr r: my Int $a = 'ab' # just testing, I don't expect success
15:40 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'Int' but got 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/UHxoe8iKrn:1␤␤»
15:41 yarp No matter 3, 4, 5 or 3.0, 4.0, 5.0
15:41 moritz 3.0 isn't a Num either
15:41 masak yarp: 3.0 is a Rat.
15:41 GlitchMr 3, 3.0, 3e0 and 3 + 0i are all different
15:41 masak yarp: yes, this takes some time to get used to.
15:41 GlitchMr Just noting
15:41 masak yarp: but it's good for you.
15:42 moritz yarp: if you want to to constraint to numbers, use Real or Numeric
15:42 moritz yarp: though typed containers aren't yet very well done, and IMHO not worth the trouble
15:42 yarp Real realy work
15:43 yarp thanks
15:44 GlitchMr std: say say
15:44 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/znRAnmFya9 line 1:�------> [32msay say[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
15:46 felher Folks, I am confused. Nothing new about that, but this time I think I have a good reason! ;) If I do >>>perl6 =(echo 'say $*IN.get;')<<< with a rakudo-built from today it works as I expect it to. I can enter _one line_ and if I press enter the line gets printed and I return to my prompt. In any other piece of code I could think of $*IN.get reads until I give it a ^D and doesn't stop at the first newline. Even
15:46 felher >>>perl6 =(echo '#blar\nsay $*IN.get;')<<< or >>>perl6 =(echo 'say $*IN.get();')<<< read multiple lines until I hit ^D and print them all at once. Any ideas/comments?
15:46 felher I don't think this is a problem with the newest Rakudo. I run into that when trying to get Rakudo working on a new machine :)
15:47 masak felher: no, $*IN.get() reads one line.
15:48 masak that's what it does, by spec.
15:48 GlitchMr Perhaps slurp?
15:48 GlitchMr Without argument it works on STDIN
15:48 felher masak: well, it doesn't to that on this machine. >>>perl6 =(echo 'say $*IN.get();')<< reads multiple lines on this new machine.
15:48 GlitchMr Also, if you need to parse line by line, try lines()
15:49 felher i can press Enter all i want. It reads until i give it a ^D.
15:50 GlitchMr felher: on my machine it gets one line
15:50 raiph joined #perl6
15:50 felher GlitchMr: yeah, on my old machine it also gets one line. Not on my new one, though. :)
15:51 GlitchMr And... it was doing that on Rakudo Star 2010.07 too
15:51 sirrobert r: class A { has $.a; has $.b; has $.c; submethod BUILD (:$a) { $!a = $a; } }; say A.new(a=>1,b=>2,c=>3);
15:51 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 1, b => Any, c => Any)␤»
15:51 felher I also tested rakudo/parrot/examples/pir/readline.pir, but this example works as expected.
15:51 GlitchMr Perhaps you're doing something incorrectly
15:51 sirrobert Do I have to explicitly account for all object properties in BUILD?
15:52 masak only if you want them set at object initialization.
15:52 sirrobert why did that not set .b and .c?
15:52 sirrobert or rather:  how do I get that to set .b and .c?
15:53 Targen joined #perl6
15:53 sirrobert I want to create an object using the normal constructur, but override how one property is interpreted.
15:53 sirrobert Is that possible, or do I need to write a handler for all ?
15:53 geekosaur just from looking at that I would assume a :$b and :$c etc. added to BUILD...
15:53 masak you need to include in the BUILD signature those attributes you want to initialize.
15:54 sirrobert masak: ok
15:54 GlitchMr https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/1b6cbf6d51b787556f2b47cd55dbf7b00fde04c0
15:54 GlitchMr The past!
15:54 sirrobert masak: that's a feature I'd be interested in seeing added
15:54 masak r: class A { has $.a; has $.b; has $.c; submethos BUILD (:$!a, :$!b, :$!c) {} }; say A.new( :a(1), :b(2), :c(3) )
15:54 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $!a used where no 'self' is available␤at /tmp/nVOH28xw4_:1␤»
15:55 masak r: class A { has $.a; has $.b; has $.c; submethod BUILD (:$!a, :$!b, :$!c) {} }; say A.new( :a(1), :b(2), :c(3) )
15:55 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 1, b => 2, c => 3)␤»
15:55 sirrobert if I have an object with 40 properties and just want to handle one of them specially, that could get onerous.
15:55 sirrobert (though I can live with it for now =)
15:56 sirrobert maybe I really want a submethod modifier that pre-processes the args list
15:56 sirrobert like a moose "before"
15:56 masak you're not the first to request one.
15:56 masak I think TimToady isn't prepared to make that core. but it could easily be made a module.
15:56 felher GlitchMr: yeah, may very well be that i'm doing something incorrectly. But then probably while installing rakudo. >>>perl6 =(echo 'say $*IN.get();')<<< can not get any shorter :)
15:56 sirrobert masak: hmmm how would you make that a module?
15:57 sirrobert masak:  What's the gist of how that would be done?  (I'd be interested in giving it a try)
15:57 masak sirrobert: you make the module expose some MOP trickery as a grammar modification.
15:57 sirrobert ok, grammar mods
15:57 sirrobert mod to STD?
15:57 masak sirrobert: we have the MOP trickery already, but maybe not the grammar modification machinery.
15:58 sirrobert masak: cool.  I don't really know how the grammar is set up now, but I can check it out.
15:58 masak 'course, if you're willing to accept slightly uglier syntax for a while, then it can still be done, I think.
15:58 GlitchMr felher: also, =?
15:58 GlitchMr Why not `perl6 -e`
15:58 sirrobert masak: I'm willing... but it will help adoption to have fewer of those
15:58 GlitchMr Somehow I wonder how = could work for you
15:58 masak sirrobert: you might want to discuss this with TimToady. he has some fairly specific opinions about it.
15:59 sirrobert sure
15:59 sirrobert masak: sounds good to me (though the beauty of modules is the possibility of ugly ones =)
15:59 GlitchMr I'm waiting for any Perl 6 implementation having access to variables like $~Regex
16:00 felher GlitchMr: =() or <() in ZSH or bash make a new temporary file with where the content of this file is the standard output of the programs within the =() or <() .:)
16:00 felher GlitchMr: but i think bash only has <(...)
16:00 GlitchMr oh, ZSH, I see
16:01 masak felher: maybe you're seeing some weird interaction with zsh, then?
16:02 sirrobert lunch
16:02 felher >>>perl6 -e 'say $*IN.get;'<<< waits for only one line, too, while >>>perl6 -e 'say $*IN.get();'<<< doesn't :)
16:02 felher @ masak and GlitchMr
16:03 felher To be precise: >>>perl6 -e 'say $*IN.get();'<<< waits for ^D
16:03 masak wut
16:03 * masak tries
16:03 GlitchMr It doesn't happen on my machine
16:03 felher Yeah, doesn't happen on my old machine. Only my new has this problem :(
16:03 GlitchMr Using ZSH, without ZSH, on my machine, on feather
16:03 masak can't reproduce it here.
16:04 GlitchMr It gets only one line
16:04 masak felher: time to find out what distinguishes your new machine. :)
16:04 GlitchMr Perhaps OS
16:06 felher Same OS: Both gentoo linux. The new machine (it doesn't substitute the old, it just is a new server :) ) is in am VM, though. Well. Im doing some further digging. Maybe i can find anything. :)
16:06 masak felher++
16:07 GlitchMr What happens on perl -e 'print scalar <>'?
16:07 GlitchMr Just wondering
16:08 felher GlitchMr: works as expected. Reads and prints just one line :)
16:08 mhasch felher: your terminal sessions on these machines might have different stty settings
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16:10 felher mhasch: that would affect other programs, such as perl or cat too, wouldn't it? I only found that problem using rakudo. Event parrot examples/pir/readline.pir works as expected. :)
16:11 felher *Even
16:11 GlitchMr Uhmmm... doesn't cat always read every line?
16:11 GlitchMr You have problem with single lines
16:11 felher GlitchMr: yes, it does, but it prints every lines as soon as i type it.
16:12 felher GlitchMr: if it is buffering of the terminal, then cat should read multiple lines and then print all of them at once, not one a at time.
16:12 felher Maybe cat sets some terminal stuff, though...
16:12 GlitchMr felher: cat doesn't buffer when reading from tty
16:13 GlitchMr Also, I doubt this would work, but could you try perl6 -e'say lines[0]'
16:14 felher GlitchMr: yeah, that doesn't work, too.
16:14 mhasch felher: readline will change settings temporarily, I guess
16:14 pmichaud note that RT #112716 is still open, too.
16:14 felher mhasch: hmm, good point :)
16:15 wooden joined #perl6
16:16 felher pmichaud: yeah, i stumbled upon that earlier today, too :)
16:17 benabik_ joined #perl6
16:21 FROGGS phenny: ask jnthn if I should be able to build my own rakudo star atm, because when all is done I cant use NativeCall: Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm'
16:21 phenny FROGGS: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
16:26 wooden joined #perl6
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16:39 GlitchMr FROGGS: http://glitchmr.github.com/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-install-the-panda.html
16:39 GlitchMr Have you ran ./rebootstrap.pl?
16:39 FROGGS no, I haven't
16:39 GlitchMr So, run it
16:40 FROGGS should I do this before make install?
16:40 GlitchMr You should rebootstrap.pl after updating Rakudo Perl 6
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16:46 FROGGS GlitchMr: looks good, thanks
16:46 FROGGS phenny: tell jnthn that GlitchMr++ told me about rebootstrap.pl
16:46 phenny FROGGS: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
16:52 jnthn evening o/
16:52 phenny jnthn: 16:21Z <FROGGS> ask jnthn if I should be able to build my own rakudo star atm, because when all is done I cant use NativeCall: Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm'
16:52 phenny jnthn: 16:46Z <FROGGS> tell jnthn that GlitchMr++ told me about rebootstrap.pl
16:52 FROGGS hi jnthn
16:54 jnthn yes, you need to refresh any PIR files if you rebuild your Rakudo.
16:54 jnthn Which is what rebootstrap.pl does
16:55 FROGGS I made a batch now that rebuilds rakudo(star) and runs that rebootstrap too
16:55 sivoais joined #perl6
16:55 jnthn nice
16:56 FROGGS I try to figure out what's happening when it "should" merge multi methods
17:01 benabik_ joined #perl6
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17:02 FROGGS home &
17:04 fhelmberger joined #perl6
17:09 moritz r: say {%*ENV}.WHAT
17:09 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
17:09 moritz r: my %a; say {%a}.WHAT
17:09 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
17:10 moritz r: my %*a; say {%*a}.WHAT
17:10 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
17:10 jnthn Hmm
17:10 jnthn I...suspect that's 'cus of the way contextual lookups are compiled
17:10 moritz yes
17:11 moritz it probably checks .isa(QAST::Var) or so when deciding if it's a hash or block
17:11 jnthn right
17:11 jnthn well, maybe the answer is to figure out how to make contextuals a QAST::Var :)
17:12 moritz or maybe we give QAST nodes a DBA attribute
17:12 moritz and ask if $ast.dba eq 'var' or so
17:14 Chillance joined #perl6
17:14 jnthn I'd rather than make QAST nodes bigger ;)
17:14 moritz malformed sentence, but I understand the sentiment
17:15 jnthn English hard is!
17:18 masak they need to do way instain English, who kill theyr sentence.
17:19 xinming joined #perl6
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17:23 sorear good * #perl6
17:23 leont joined #perl6
17:24 benabik joined #perl6
17:25 masak sorear! \o/
17:25 sorear masak: did you see the rakudobug GlitchMr found last night?
17:25 masak no.
17:28 sorear nr: /\0/
17:28 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized backslash sequence at line 2, near "/"␤»
17:28 p6eval ..niecza v21-15-gf226bf6:  ( no output )
17:28 sorear nr: eval: "/\\\0/" # curiously, this works
17:28 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/dEL6PxnNQG:1␤»
17:28 p6eval ..niecza v21-15-gf226bf6:  ( no output )
17:28 sorear er, it did last night
17:28 sorear nr: eval "/\\\0/" # curiously, this works
17:28 p6eval rakudo 097361, niecza v21-15-gf226bf6:  ( no output )
17:28 sorear oh, the colon
17:29 jnthn \0 NYI in regexes?
17:30 jnthn wait, what's it meant to do?
17:30 * jnthn checks S05
17:30 jnthn hm, no mention of it in S05
17:30 moritz std: /\1/
17:30 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of the 1-based special form '\1' as a backreference; in Perl 6 please use the 0-based variable '$0' instead at /tmp/Luxsw29wry line 1:�------> [32m/\1[33m�[31m/[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 42m�»
17:31 jnthn std: /\0/
17:31 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
17:31 jnthn huh
17:31 jnthn oh...is it meant to be a way to write NULL?
17:32 moritz eval: !! chr(0) =~ /\0/
17:32 buubot_backup moritz: No output.
17:33 pmichaud rakudo:   say "\0" ~~ /\x00/;
17:33 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«「␀」␤␤»
17:33 pmichaud rakudo:   say "\0" ~~ /\0/;
17:33 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized backslash sequence at line 2, near "/;"␤»
17:34 jnthn It's easy to add but...S05 doesn't mention it. Unless we count it under "same as Perl 5 did it"
17:34 sorear STD mentions it, though.
17:34 jnthn Ah.
17:34 jnthn That's probably good enough :)
17:35 moritz it's weird to allow \0 but disallow \1 etc.
17:35 sorear line 5066 in my checkout
17:36 sorear huh, what's this SIGOK thing
17:36 pmichaud std:  /\01/
17:36 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex backslash sequence at /tmp/wSpTlYpS3i line 1:�------> [32m/\[33m�[31m01/[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 42m�»
17:36 pmichaud std: /\1/
17:36 p6eval std b842bb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of the 1-based special form '\1' as a backreference; in Perl 6 please use the 0-based variable '$0' instead at /tmp/t5UEiPZwha line 1:�------> [32m/\1[33m�[31m/[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 42m�»
17:37 benabik_ joined #perl6
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17:42 masak "So we need to get something out there for people to start playing with right away." -- http://linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/rt/07282000/transcript.html
17:42 * masak found that an interesting read
17:42 masak "We have to have the process that continues to support people with Perl 5, at the same time giving them a clear migration path to Perl 6, if they want to go that way."
17:43 felher masak++ #found something for me to read on the bus ride home :)
17:43 tadzik Heh, a Pirate Folk-ish band advertises itself on the pirate bay, with free download available
17:45 mst masak: mentioning the 07282000 is the date would've helped
17:46 mst felher: the 07-28-2000 is the date :)
17:46 FROGGS joined #perl6
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17:46 masak mst: ah, yes. I forgot to mention that.
17:47 mst not that it isn't interesting, but the context is important
17:47 jnthn r: say words(' foo bar   baz! ', 1).perl
17:47 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&words' called (line 1)␤»
17:48 jnthn r: say ' foo bar   baz! ', 1).words(1).perl
17:48 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/_58JsZZvrk:1␤»
17:48 felher mst: thnx :)
17:48 jnthn r: say ' foo bar   baz! ', 1.words(1).perl
17:48 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«No such method 'words' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/6CeHq9HgFP:1␤␤»
17:48 jnthn ffs
17:48 jnthn r: say ' foo bar   baz! '.words(1).perl
17:48 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«("foo",).list␤»
17:49 wk__ joined #perl6
17:54 jnthn huh, I rewrote words to be a load faster and it got twice as slow :/
17:55 [Coke] moritz: IWBNI docs.perl6.org went to doc.perl.org instead of perl6.org
17:55 * [Coke] slow claps for jnthn.
17:55 [Coke] *clap*
17:56 [Coke] *clap*
17:56 GlitchMr back
17:56 GlitchMr moritz | it's weird to allow \0 but disallow \1 etc.
17:56 GlitchMr Actually, this is what JavaScript does in normal strings in strict mods
17:56 GlitchMr mode*
17:56 jnthn bah, I'm going for dinner :)
17:56 jnthn bbl
17:56 sorear [Coke]: I can't resolve doc.perl.org
17:56 diakopter pmichaud: thx for finding the parrot concat thing
17:56 GlitchMr "\0" is valid in JS strict mode, "\1" isn't
17:57 GlitchMr It's probably only octal escape I can accept :-)
17:58 GlitchMr Also, why unknown domains of .perl6.org lead to perl6.org?
17:58 FROGGS sorear: can't either
17:58 GlitchMr If I use domain like 404pagenotfound.perl6.org, why it would redirect me to perl6.org
17:59 mst wildcard DNS plus a default vhost
17:59 benabik_ joined #perl6
18:00 GlitchMr I should make completely pointless tutorial like "Perl 6 for Python programmers"
18:03 [Coke] sorear: typo. I meant (obviously?) perl6.org everywhere there.
18:15 wamba joined #perl6
18:16 sorear [Coke]: I missed the distinction between docs and doc
18:18 sorear who runs the perl6.org DNS system?
18:19 sorear is Daniel Wright one of our people?
18:19 moritz well, he's a Perl monger
18:19 moritz but not an active 6er
18:19 moritz I've asked him to set up a wildcard DNS so that we can get subdomains without bothering him
18:20 sorear hmm, I knew a Daniel Wright in high school, I wonder if they're the same one
18:20 moritz sorear: he's probably older (unless it's a teacher)
18:20 sorear no, was 1-2y younger than me
18:21 wamba1 joined #perl6
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19:11 raiph hi all. anyone around willing to discuss #perl6 summaries?
19:15 bezko joined #perl6
19:15 * moritz
19:24 skids r: my $a = Buf.new(42); $a.gist.say; $a.perl.say; $a.WHAT.say; # minor annoyance
19:24 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<2a>␤Buf.new()␤Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method list at src/gen/CORE.setting:6941␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:6952␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7173␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:758␤  in block  at /tmp/A1B…
19:25 masak r: say (Buf.new).WHAT
19:25 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method list at src/gen/CORE.setting:6941␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:6952␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7173␤  in block  at /tmp/f0hRCMAS2i:1␤␤»
19:27 benabik_ joined #perl6
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19:34 diakopter today's xkcd zoomable http://t.co/yxv7snNM
19:34 stopbit joined #perl6
19:36 masak nice.
19:44 bbkr speaking of domains - are projects like perl6/doc and perl6/ecosystems restricted to perl6.org? I'd like to use them to generate content for perl6.com (no specific layout plans yet).
19:44 diakopter are you planning to buy perl6.com from Jason?
19:45 diakopter (Jason Duke)
19:47 bbkr yes
19:48 diakopter how much were you going to offer?
19:48 diakopter 3 years ago he said $2k was much too low
19:49 GlitchMr I'm creating Makefile and editor seems to ignore my settings. For some reason it uses tabs when I've configured it to use spaces.
19:49 diakopter bbkr: "i am always open to offers and when and if a number pops up that piques my interest i'll let you know but at the moment 2k doesn't interest one jot!"
19:50 bbkr I cannot share such details. We worked together for some time and he is tough negotiator :)
19:50 diakopter oh! glad to know you have an in.
19:51 diakopter sounds like he should've taken my offer :P
19:55 Targen joined #perl6
19:55 bbkr Currently it is hard to estimate perl6.com value. On one hand we're relatively small community and there is not much financial juice to squeeze from hypothetical traffic on this domain. On the other hand check where perl.com leads to and who I'm competing against here :)
20:01 arnsholt GlitchMr: That's because Makefiles won't work if you use spaces
20:02 arnsholt The lines in a recipe have to be indented by a tab, nothing else will do
20:02 arnsholt If you use spaces you'll get really weird errors
20:11 bluescreen100 joined #perl6
20:12 masak the Makefile format -- broken by design(TM).
20:13 nodmonkey joined #perl6
20:20 leont There are a lot of things great about it, but the file format has more holes in it than swiss cheese
20:23 jnthn Swiss cheese tastes pretty OK, though, despite the holes :)
20:23 TimToady r: say (^5).roll(5);   # instead of (^5).pick xx 5
20:23 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«0 3 0 4 1␤»
20:25 masak jnthn: the holes are the tastiest part!
20:25 TimToady that's where all the vitimins are
20:25 TimToady *vitamins
20:26 FROGGS but these are actually bacterial farts^^
20:26 jnthn Mmmm...tasty tasty farts.
20:27 TimToady some bacteria are more equal than others
20:29 leont Pretty much the same bacteria that commonly live on your feet, though
20:29 FROGGS r: my Bacteria $a; my Bacteria $b; $a meq $b; # meq, our new "more equal" operator
20:29 p6eval rakudo 097361: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my␤at /tmp/zmWaX5bUuG:1␤»
20:30 FROGGS we could introduce a "jabeq" operator though # just a bit equal
20:34 masak FROGGS: re cheese and bacterial farts: just wait until I tell you about beer and wine ;)
20:35 jnthn Beer then wine, you'll feel fine. Wine the beer, oh dear. :P
20:35 jnthn *then
20:36 masak hm. hadn't heard that one before. why is that?
20:37 jnthn Good question, but experimental studies conducted during my time in university support it. :P
20:38 FROGGS there is the same idiom in german
20:38 leont I'm sure those studies were scientific :-p
20:39 masak heh. the Internet has lots of sayings like this, and some weird theories about what they mean and why :P
20:39 FROGGS "Wein auf Bier, das rate ich dir. Bier auf Wein, das lass sein."
20:39 masak right. "on" seems more common than "then".
20:39 benabik joined #perl6
20:39 masak phenny: "Wein auf Bier, das rate ich dir. Bier auf Wein, das lass sein."?
20:39 phenny masak: "Wine to beer , I advise you . Effect of alcohol on the be let ." (de to en, translate.google.com)
20:39 jnthn *lol*
20:40 skids r: proto sub a (:$b = 2) {...}; multi sub a (:$b where { $_ == 2 }) { "sub1".say }; a(:b(2)); a(); # should work?
20:40 p6eval rakudo 097361:  ( no output )
20:40 masak phenny got a little lost there towards the end.
20:40 skids hrm.
20:40 jnthn Well, given you write ... instead of {*} you don't even make it to trying to multi-dispatch :)
20:40 jnthn But even if you had, no.
20:41 jnthn The {*} uses the arguments that were passed in
20:41 jnthn Anything done in the proto signature has no influence on those.
20:44 skids Ah.  So the named->positional mapping in S06 is only a special case, not a fallout of a more general principle.
20:45 jnthn Doesn't that end up re-writing callsites anyway...
20:45 * skids ponders different multis with different default values.
20:45 jnthn Either way, Rakudo doesn't implement the bit of S06 you're talking about yet.
20:45 jnthn One of those "jnthn looked, said ARGH and will implement it when he comes to terms with it not going away" :)
20:45 skids cool.  Don't actually need it ATM, just was curious.
20:52 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: f843f61 | jonathan++ | src/core/Str.pm:
20:52 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: Refactor words to not use comb/matches.
20:52 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words:
20:52 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: In theory this should be a load faster. Instead it's twice as slow
20:52 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: on pick-words. Maybe repeated utf-8 scanning kills it.
20:52 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f843f61ae0
20:54 jnthn pmichaud: ^^ may be relatedish to the setting-with-high-codepoints issue you're looking at.
20:55 masak heh. from one line to 14 lines... and twice as slow ;)
20:56 jnthn I know! I shouldn't be allowed to program when sober. :P
20:56 jnthn I think it must be the utf-8 scanning
20:56 masak aye.
20:56 jnthn hmm...maybe I can convert it to search it...
20:57 jnthn .oO( strings shouldn't have encodings...that's an I/O thing :/ )
20:57 FROGGS shouldnt it be faster if you declare $start and $end before gather?
20:58 jnthn FROGGS: No
20:58 jnthn Then the optimizer has a harder job.
20:58 FROGGS k
20:58 jnthn And won't do as well on 'em.
20:58 jnthn Declaring in the narrowest scope you can is only only good for code understandability, but in Rakudo it tends to get you better performance too.
20:59 jnthn *not only
20:59 jnthn Grr... (4 hours sleep)--
20:59 FROGGS ó.ò
20:59 benabik joined #perl6
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21:05 jnthn Hm, yeah, getting it to scan a fixed width string is an improvement. BUT it's still horribly slow.
21:05 jnthn I guess 'cus the substr is on the utf8 one
21:07 leont Perl 5 does some caching, it may help in Rakudo too
21:09 jnthn Yeah. Getting it to do the substr on the fixed length thing gets me 5 times faster than the original.
21:11 jnthn I guess any such cachign would need to go into Parrot
21:12 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: 11e00a9 | jonathan++ | src/core/Str.pm:
21:12 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: Work on a fixed width string.
21:12 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words:
21:12 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: Sadly, this can't actually be merged yet, for the same reason we can
21:12 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: not substr strings in the grammar from fixed width.
21:12 dalek rakudo/unfaster-words: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/11e00a92e4
21:14 masak jnthn++ # multi-line commit messages
21:15 jnthn Yeah...filling everyone's IRC screens faster to keep Linus happy :P
21:15 masak even Github does it right nowadays \o/
21:20 * [Coke] . o O (I hate irc)
21:21 * masak hugs [Coke]
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21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: 03ae412 | coke++ | / (4 files):
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/03ae412ea7
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: 78f2b91 | coke++ | / (4 files):
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/78f2b91436
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: 04b6da2 | coke++ | / (4 files):
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/04b6da2991
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3695055 | coke++ | / (3 files):
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/3695055db9
21:34 [Coke] (still haven't fixed rakudo there.)
21:35 jnthn was gonna say :)
21:35 jnthn sleep &
21:36 * [Coke] kicks off a run of just rakudo, and gets a massive amount of git updating going on.
21:36 [Coke] wonder if/why cron had a problem.
21:40 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
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22:06 PacoAir joined #perl6
22:06 masak 'night, #perl6
22:08 felher o/ masak
22:44 dalek std: 77327a4 | larry++ | STD.pm6:
22:44 dalek std: parse q:val for GlitchMr++
22:44 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/77327a4a95
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