IRC log for #perl6, 2012-10-02

Time	Nick	Message
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00:59	dalek	perl6-roast-data: 64a98b7 \| coke++ \| p (2 files):
00:59	dalek	perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:59	dalek	perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-[…]commit/64a98b7a1f
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00:59	dalek	perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
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01:25	[Coke]	huh. there were 9 of those, and dalek only showed 2.
01:27	diakopter	poor guy got booted
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01:36	[Coke]	ugh. parrot-nqp used to autoconvert based on HLL mappings. looks like I lost that using nqp
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02:06	diakopter	is this valid C code: if (1);
02:07	sorear	yes
02:08	diakopter	cool
02:08	diakopter	I have an opportunity to use it
02:08	sorear	that is a valid C statement. it does nothing.
02:08	sorear	you can shorten it to just ;
02:08	diakopter	uhm.
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02:08	diakopter	surely you don't think I was asking about the case where 1 is there in particular
02:09	sorear	actually I did
02:09	diakopter	I would have thought it was pretty clear I was asking about the lack of statement after the condition
02:09	sorear	there is a statement after the condition
02:09	sorear	; is legal anywhere C expects a statement
02:10	diakopter	I... .... am surprised ... you thought I was asking whether 1 was a valid condition. what kind of moron do you take me for?
02:11	geekosaur	huh?\
02:11	sorear	I'm just trying to answer the questions without regard to who's asking
02:12	* shachaf	took the question the same way.
02:12	diakopter	ok. thanks for the info that ; is always a valid statement. I knew it was ok after while () but I wasn't sure about if.
02:13	sorear	actually I thought you were asking whether "if (1);", as a whole, was valid
02:14	diakopter	yes, but that would be an insane question because it's obviously a no-op
02:14	diakopter	I mean, who would ask how to write a no-op?
02:14	sorear	I think it's best not to second-guess people's questions.
02:15	diakopter	I don't see any "second-guessing" there at all.
02:16	diakopter	I see deduction from assumption of sanity and pragmatism
02:17	* shachaf	wonders what context makes "if (...);" useful.
02:18	shachaf	Anyway, "sanity" is a pretty vague thing, and figuring out edge cases of C can be tricky enough when you assume that people say what they mean. :-)
02:18	diakopter	if (a \|\| b \|\| c \|\| d) { return; } at the end of a void function
02:18	shachaf	Does (a \|\| b \|\| c \|\| d) have side effects?
02:18	diakopter	nope
02:18	shachaf	Then what's the point?
02:19	diakopter	I was just curious if I could shorten the { return; } to ;
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02:19	colomon	http://www.johndcook.com/blog/[…]k-the-cleverness/ # perl 6 disparagement in the comments...
02:19	shachaf	You can, but you can also shorten the whole thing to either nothing or "(a \|\| b \|\| c \|\| d)".
02:21	diakopter	ah
02:21	diakopter	sorry I'm wrong; yes they do have side effects
02:21	diakopter	they are each CAS operations
02:21	shachaf	OK, then you still don't need the if.
02:22	diakopter	if another thread is competing to do the exact same process, the one that fails first can fail fast
02:23	diakopter	s/fails first/fails to CAS first/
02:23	diakopter	really, only the first one needs checked actually
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02:38	diakopter	colomon: do you disagree with the comment?
02:39	colomon	diakopter: very definitely
02:39	diakopter	can you support your opinion?
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05:02	adj13	perl6: say 3
05:03	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af, niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«3␤»
05:03	adj13	rakudo
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05:30	moritz	good morning
05:30	sorear	good morning moritz.
05:33	isBEKaml	moritz: good morning
05:35	moritz	\o sorear, isBEKaml
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06:20	mathw	o/
06:21	* mathw	was up late launching a bargeful of errors waiting to happen and would now very much like another job for two days of the week
06:24	sjohnson	o/
06:24	sorear	"another job"?
06:24	mathw	well I'd like to swap what I currently do for two days a week for something else
06:25	sorear	do you currently have multiple jobs? would you, after the swap?
06:26	mathw	I currently have two part-time jobs which fill the week between them. I very much like one of them (which used to be full-time, and I wish it still was), but the other one causes me continual grief
06:28	sorear	ah, I see
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06:30	mathw	ever done a schema migration on a database designed by someone who doesn't think referential integrity is important?
06:31	sjohnson	mathw.C++
06:31		isBEKaml\|2 joined #perl6
06:31	mathw	Wouldn't mind doing some C++
06:31	mathw	:)
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06:34	sjohnson	mathw: what's the main source of grief? lack of job satisfaction? boring tasks? annoying coworkers?
06:35	mathw	it's a very small company, so it basically boils down to one coworker who just doesn't think the same way I do
06:35	mathw	almost always takes the shortest path to a solution
06:36	sjohnson	i hear ya
06:36	mathw	and is very fond of giving me a task then implying it's my fault when I don't manage to include this obscure bit of it that he never told me about
06:36	mathw	he's never had to produce proper specs before, because he's never had to communicate them to another programmer
06:36	mathw	not that he wants to be a programmer anyway
06:37	mathw	the best bit about this job is that I got to learn Dancer and write some serious Perl 5
06:37	sjohnson	well, you're not alone
06:37	mathw	yeah it's just hard to take because I had an idyllic job with a terrifyingly intelligent colleague who thinks a lot like me (but different enough for us to reinforce each other's weak points) but the company's been having trouble and they couldn't keep me on full time anymore
06:40	sjohnson	:[
06:40	mathw	so that job's more annoying now because we can never deliver in the time frames they got used to
06:40	mathw	becaues we don't have as much time as we did!
06:41	mathw	even my productivity-per-day has gone down, because there's a context-switching penalty involved in this
06:41	mathw	plus more time (proportionally) spent dealing with user support
06:44	sjohnson	sounds like a recipe for woe
06:44	mathw	yeppers
06:44	mathw	am currently entertaining approaches from a recruiter who contacted me
06:44	sjohnson	it is kind of amazing why something so simple would be so hard for managers to understand
06:44	mathw	but he hasn't got back to me after passing my CV on to a company yet
06:45	mathw	I don't want to leave the good job, but if I have to... well, I have to
06:45	moritz	hard choices are hard
06:46	mathw	yes
06:46	mathw	I've considered freelancing, but I have no idea how to get work or what to really do.
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06:52	mathw	and I'm not sure I ahve the patience for the admin, so I'd rather just get a job :)
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07:03	grondilu	I've recompiled rakudo and now when I try to import a module (previously imported with Panda), I get:
07:03	grondilu	===SORRY!===
07:03	grondilu	Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/CORE.setting'
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07:04	sorear	afaik that's expected
07:05	grondilu	do I have to reinstall panda or something?
07:06	sorear	you have to tell rakudo to recompile the modules.
07:07	sorear	I'm not sure how best to do that, but just using panda to reinstall the modules should be enough...
07:07	sorear	alternately, you can delete the precompiled modules
07:07	sorear	which should be .pir files in ~/.perl6 or something like that
07:07	sorear	but IANA rakudo expert.
07:08	* grondilu	tries removing *.pir files
07:10	sorear	IANA rakudo user, for that matter, so take everything I say carefully
07:11	grondilu	well, now I can run panda at least. It takes a long time though, since nothing is precompile anymore.
07:14	* grondilu	runs "panda install panda" (which is quite odd)
07:15	mathw	:)
07:15	mathw	Programmers often deal with absurdities. It's part of the fun.
07:16	grondilu	it failed. It wants an already precompiled JSON::Tiny
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07:21	moritz	panda has a 'rebootstrap.pl' command
07:21	moritz	which you have to run (from its source directory) whenever you install a new rakudo version
07:22	moritz	and you want to keep your old modules
07:23	grondilu	moritz++: thanks
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07:24	sorear	o/ sqirrel
07:27	aharoni	Hallo. How can I check that I have the right version of ICU for building Rakudo? (I'm running Ubuntu.)
07:28	sorear	aharoni: I guess you could start the "Configure.pl" script, stop it when it starts building Parrot, then check to see what Parrot's configure thinks about your ICU
07:30	aharoni	sorear, I already ran `perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --gen-nqp' once, and it cloned everything, so if I run it again, it finishes very quickly and doesn't say anything about what it did or didn't find. Even after I did `make realclean'.
07:30	aharoni	Or did you mean that I should run `make' and see what it says about ICU?
07:31	sorear	aharoni: maybe try grep has_icu parrot/config_lib.pir
07:32	aharoni	set $P0["has_icu"], "0"
07:32	aharoni	does "0" mean that I don't have it?
07:32	moritz	correct
07:32	moritz	--gen-parrot doesn't rebuild if there's a parrot already there
07:33	moritz	what you can do is
07:33	moritz	rm -rf install/
07:33	moritz	and then run perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot again
07:35	aharoni	aha, "Is ICU installed....................................yes"
07:36	aharoni	maybe it's because I installed libicu_dev after running Configure for the first time.
07:36	aharoni	But I didn't know that I should delete install/ before re-building. I assumed that `make realclean' would take care of it.
07:37	sorear	these days the only "clean" I trust is "git clean"
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07:40	moritz	aharoni: well, 'make realclean' only cleans rakudo's files
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08:02	aharoni	When I didn't have ICU installed properly, S02-types/version.t tests with Greek letters failed. After installing libicu_dev and re-building, they pass.
08:02	TimToady	back to Tokyo from Nikko (along with jnthn & ingy)
08:02	aharoni	Should I maybe add a comment about this to S02-types/version.t?
08:03	sorear	aharoni: you should modify t/spectest.data and add the NEEDS_ICU marker or however that's spelled to the S02-types/version.t line
08:03	sorear	there are a number of test files that Rakudo autoskips if ICU is not available
08:04	* aharoni	wonders what other tests it auto-skips.
08:04	moritz	grep icu t/spectest.data
08:05	aharoni	I would actually love it not to skip Unicode-related tests, given that I care about foreign alphabets a lot.
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08:06	jnthn	afty, #pelr6
08:06	jnthn	oops, forgot to type...
08:06	aharoni	sorear, moritz, i huess that the marker is `# icu'
08:06	aharoni	a comment in the end of the line.
08:06	sorear	aharoni: why test something that is known a priori to fail?
08:07	sorear	jnthn, aharoni needs to know the history of ICU in Parrot
08:07	sorear	also, goof afternood
08:08	aharoni	sorear, If you don't care about Unicode and don't want to install ICU, then it's fine to skip it. But without that failure that I had I wouldn't even notice that I don't have ICU installed properly.
08:08	aharoni	(Although I would probably notice it after some time.)
08:09	aharoni	Is there maybe some make target than runs everything without skipping?
08:10	jnthn	History? Parrot used to bundle ICU within it and I spent ages getting the Windows build of it to work and if you had a Parrot you had an ICU, iirc. They they tossed it out of the repo and now some people have ICU and some done.
08:10	jnthn	I've no idea how to do it these days.
08:10	jnthn	s/done/don't
08:10	aharoni	On Ubuntu it's just a matter of installing libicu_dev.
08:10	jnthn	Yeah, I'm on Windows.
08:11	aharoni	Oh.
08:11	jnthn	I don't see ICU as our long-term or even medium-term solution anyways.
08:12	aharoni	Anyway, how can I submit a patch that marks these tests as ICU-dependent? http://rakudo.org/how-to-help/ says to ask on IRC :)
08:12	jnthn	But yeah, it's needed for doing Unicode stuff on Rakudo today
08:13	jnthn	aharoni: Add the # icu markers.
08:13	sorear	aharoni: make a patch, then either post it on irc using a pastebin, or via a github pull request, or a github ticket with patch, or whatever else suits you
08:13	jnthn	aharoni: Then create a patch and send it to rakudobugperl.org
08:14	aharoni	Oh, GitHub, of course. I just cloned and didn't even look at github.com :)
08:14	aharoni	OK.
08:14	sorear	note that rakudo has an unusualy (by #perl6 standards) restrictive commitbit policy
08:15	aharoni	No problem.
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08:15	sorear	for most other repos we'd give you commit access right now and tell you to fix it yourself
08:15		kresike joined #perl6
08:15	sorear	but rakudo does not give commit bits without a signed committer license agreement
08:15	kresike	good morning all you happy perl6 people
08:15	sorear	hmm, I should do that someday soon
08:15	sorear	o/ kresike
08:15	kresike	hello sorear o/
08:19	tadzik	hello
08:19	jnthn	Wow, no Rakudo or NQP commits while I was gone in Nikko
08:19	jnthn	o/ tadzik
08:21	sorear	o/ tadzik
08:22	tadzik	jnthn: do you plan to look at the threads issue?
08:22	tadzik	nqp vs parrot-nqp inconsistency
08:23	jnthn	tadzik: What threads issue?
08:23	aharoni	Mmm... `make spectest' clones from github.com/perl6/roast . Can I tell it to clone from my fork in some nice way?
08:25	moritz	aharoni: you can simply clone yourself into t/spec/
08:25	moritz	aharoni: then rakudo will just 'git pull'
08:25	moritz	aharoni: but of course I can also just give you commit access to perl6/roast, and then you can use the official one :-)
08:25	moritz	aharoni: what's your github ID?
08:25	jnthn	tadzik: I thought the threads thing in Parrot got backed out?
08:25	tadzik	jnthn: https://gist.github.com/3817314
08:25	aharoni	moritz, amire80
08:25	tadzik	jnthn: backed out by whom
08:26	aharoni	moritz, it's very nice of you :)
08:26	jnthn	tadzik: I thought I saw a post saying that the threads merge wasn't meant to have happened.
08:26	tadzik	huh, don't recall that
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08:26	tadzik	otoh, I'm not on parrot-dev anymore, I think
08:26	aharoni	maybe I can just pull from perl6 and push to my fork.
08:26	moritz	aharoni: welcome. Have the appropriate amount of fun
08:26	tadzik	dukeleto was asking me about blockers recently
08:26	aharoni	moritz, thank you.
08:26	jnthn	tadzik: Was the lexpad issue fixed?
08:27	jnthn	tadzik: nqp, unlike parrot-nqp, does sub lookups lexically, consistently.
08:27	tadzik	jnthn: yes, see gist
08:27	tadzik	it works in parrot-nqp
08:28	jnthn	Even for a custom lexpad?
08:28	tadzik	well, I don't know :)
08:28	tadzik	it fails in perl6/nqp
08:29	jnthn	Hm
08:29	jnthn	I'm really not sure from the backtrace, aside from it seems to be trying to construct an exception for some reason
08:29	jnthn	I'm not sure why, but the root issue may be that something causes an exception
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08:34	sorear	tadzik: there was a force push reverting the threads merge. there was a general message to parrot-dev telling people to recheckout.
08:34	tadzik	I'll check out the ML
08:37	* jnthn	did that at uni... :)
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08:42	sorear	o/ FROGGS
08:44	aharoni	Hehe, apparently there is a pull request about the Greek letters in version.t in GitHub already - https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pulls .
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08:49	FROGGS	hi sorear
08:52	lestrrat	jnthn: your talk video is up now http://yapcasia.org/2012/talk/[…]af5f-0d4e6aeab6a4
08:52	lestrrat	jnthn: do you have your slides up anywhere?
08:52	jnthn	lestrrat: No, will fix that now
08:52	jnthn	Thanks for the reminder
08:52	lestrrat	:)
09:03	jnthn	lestrrat: http://jnthn.net/papers/2012-yapcasia-modules.pdf
09:03	diakopter	o.o
09:04	lestrrat	jnthn: registered! thanks :)
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09:09	Su-Shee	lestrrat: I _just_ read your yapc::asia posting. you made it look like an amazing event i'm very envious about. :)
09:09	Su-Shee	hello everyone.
09:10	jnthn	lestrrat: Awesome that the video is up so fast, BTW!
09:10	jnthn	lestrrat++
09:10	lestrrat	If you felt it that way, then I did my job right ;)
09:11	lestrrat	jnthn: please thank this guy -> https://twitter.com/941
09:11	lestrrat	I'm like the foreign relations / tech / finance guy. He does the rest
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09:13	lestrrat	if you haven't seen me talk about him, please peruse slides 40-42 http://www.slideshare.net/lest[…]pa-yapcna-2011/40 :)
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09:19	jnthn	lestrrat: have done so :)
09:19	sorear	it's funny. from what I've seen in the past, I thought lestrrat was generally opposed to the concept of videoing talks, yet yapc::asia has the promptest videos I've seen yet
09:19	lestrrat	sorear: huh? what made you think that way?
09:20	TimToady	sorear: you sure you aren't confusing lestrrat++ with someone else?
09:20	lestrrat	I AM against ustream'ing, if you ask :)
09:21	lestrrat	but I don't think I've gone and talked about it much :)
09:21	sorear	http://blogs.perl.org/users/ya[…]ml#comment-122259
09:22	lestrrat	Ah, I must have been thinking ustreaming but typed otherwise, or something.
09:22	sorear	what's ustreaming?
09:23	lestrrat	people around here likes to http://www.ustream.tv/ their conferences (I don't know about europe or na)
09:23	lestrrat	i.e. stream it live
09:23	lestrrat	also, we lower the quality of our videos.
09:23	lestrrat	on purpose.
09:23	lestrrat	that's what I wanted to say in that comment, I think.
09:24	lestrrat	since I was asked "I think - without wanting to say anything bad or picky - that video could be even cooler, perhaps with respect to the readability of the slides. "
09:24	lestrrat	to which I was like, "well, yeah, I can give you some video, but not the real thing"
09:25	sorear	now what I would really like in the conferences is some way to make the days longer so that you don't have to schedule interesting talks against each other
09:25	sorear	24 hours is never enough
09:26	lestrrat	I'd hate that. the organizers would have to work longer hours ;)
09:26	* sorear	cannot speak for yapc::asia specifically but had many painful decisions to make at ::europe
09:26	lestrrat	yeah, I purposely put interesting talks back-to-back. otherwise you get one room full, and the other room empty. that's bad for the non-rock-star speakers. demotivates them a lot.
09:27	TimToady	at ::asia it largely comes down to whether you understand very rapid　日本語. :)
09:27	TimToady	gets easier to choose if you don't :)
09:27	lestrrat	the language barrier is one of the reasons why we are making the videos and slides available so quickly
09:28	lestrrat	most JP people probably didn't understand what (exactly) larry was saying at the venue,
09:28	sorear	probably for the best I didn't go, then. my 日本語 listening comprehension skills are basically nonexistant
09:28	lestrrat	but they can figure it out if they watch the videos carefully.
09:29	TimToady	which is why I picked something that can largely be understood by reading the code on the screen
09:29	TimToady	though if they can't see that from the video, it'd be a problem
09:29	sorear	lestrrat: what goes into making the videos presentable? why do na and europe take months?
09:29	lestrrat	sorear: Right, but you don't need Japanese or English to understand stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C7Ngq6bM4M :)
09:30	lestrrat	sorear: beats me. we just have an HD handycam on each room, and just download, cut, and upload. done.
09:30	lestrrat	I have no clue why it would take more than a week or two to do the above work.
09:31	sorear	lestrrat: is that the reduced quality version?
09:31	lestrrat	yep.
09:32	sorear	I guess I need new glasses, because I can't see any unusal blurring :D
09:32	sorear	or rather, "it seems in focus to me :D"
09:33	lestrrat	well let me just put it this way: if we used the original quality video, you would be able to see the scratches on the projector screen. it's full HD.
09:33	lestrrat	TimToady: I meant to ask you - since you did live coding, you have no slides, right?
09:33	lestrrat	just wanted to make sure.
09:34	sorear	well I had better head off to sleep.
09:34	sorear	lestrrat++ 941++ # even if I didn't go I consider this a valuable community service
09:34	sorear	&
09:34	lestrrat	thanks. g'night
09:35	mhasch	lestrrat: "live coding" might still have been prepared in advance... :-)
09:35	TimToady	lestrrat: in a sense I had 1377 slides
09:35	lestrrat	meh :)
09:35	TimToady	since it was a vim keystroke file
09:36	lestrrat	oh, so you can actually repro the entire step ?
09:36	TimToady	but one can see teh before and after on rosettacode.org :)
09:36	TimToady	in the Perl 5 and Perl 6 entries for strand sort
09:36	TimToady	but yes, I can repro the whole thing
09:37	lestrrat	I think a lot of the people there were wondering how you were typing with one hand :) let me know if you feel like posting that keystroke file somewhere
09:37	mathw	I like this ocncept
09:38	mathw	(sorry, too tired to type properly this morning)
09:38	mathw	vim keystroke file as presentation tool. Very cool.
09:40	TimToady	the technology has a few rough edges yet
09:40	TimToady	you have to be very careful not to use screen-relative commands like H
09:41	mathw	I imagine setting it up is quite tedious
09:41	TimToady	well, depends on how safe you want it to be
09:42	TimToady	every command saves and restores the current position in my file, so if I accidentally or purposefully move the cursor, it starts up again that the correct spot
09:42	TimToady	but that clobbers your position if you do j or k across a short line, so I had to compensate for that too
09:42	TimToady	and my popups didn't work quite right
09:43	TimToady	not surprising since I hacked that capability in within the hour before the talk :)
09:43	Su-Shee	can't you just make it a "filetype" and just disable the keystrokes for this foobar.mysuperpresentation filetype?
09:44	TimToady	also, inserts go in all as a single transaction, when you'd want to simulate typing one char at a time sometimes
09:45	TimToady	I'm sure there are lots of capabilities within vim that I haven't explored; I was trying to do the simplest thing that would work, and that was a little more complicated than what I used in ::eu, which didn't quite work
09:45	mathw	Something tells me that one day there'll be a Perl script which produces files vim can digest from a friendly specification
09:46	Su-Shee	I love the idea though. :) I never warmed up with anything "real presentation" like, I usally made everything html..
09:46	mhasch	you'd also have to pay a price for more flexibility (shortcuts and elaborations)
09:46	Su-Shee	mathw: vim has a perl api, you can just enable it or use vimscript.
09:46	TimToady	what the popups did was start a gnome-term with zoom=3 or so, fullscreen
09:46	TimToady	I'd hit a return to exit that, and then I was back in vim
09:47	Su-Shee	I made a note "look into vim as presentation tool" for me. :)
09:47	* TimToady	wasn't trying to use embedded Perl
09:47	mathw	Su-Shee: then I'd have to learn vimscript :)
09:47	mathw	Which I don't really object to, but it would be more fun to write something in Perl 6 or Haskell
09:48	Su-Shee	mathw: http://www.ibm.com/developerwo[…]ript-1/index.html and there's a part 2, 3, 4 and 5 too.
09:48	TimToady	my vim script is all of three lines
09:48	TimToady	map <F12> :let feed = readfile(input("vs: ", "x", "file") . '.vs')
09:48	TimToady	map <Insert> :call feedkeys((len(feed)?remove(feed,0):''),'t')
09:49	mhasch	TheDamian mentioned a little project "vimpoint" back in '08 or so; dont' know whether he pursued it further.
09:49	TimToady	map <Insert>:
09:49	TimToady	that's supposed to be a ^V-space
09:50	TimToady	oh, I had to write a program to take a keystroke file and split it into separate lines per command
09:51	TimToady	I couldn't find any way to get vim to update the screen if I didn't come back to a user prompt on each command
09:51	mathw	I will admit to an influence from my colleague, who needed to generate an invoice so wrote an invoice-generating program.
09:53	mhasch	TimToady: did ^L not work?
09:53	TimToady	didn't seem to
09:53	TimToady	I tried lotsa things
09:54	mathw	huh
09:54	TimToady	in the end I decided doing each command when I type space as a macro gave me more flexibility anyway
09:54	TimToady	it certainly gave me the capability of recovering in ::eu when my cursor got off from where it belonged
09:56	mathw	which is definitely worthwhile
10:00	aharoni	I am very much a newbie, but I suspect that S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.pl creates the file server-ready-flag for testing and doesn't delete it.
10:00	aharoni	So `git status' in the spec repo shows it as untracked.
10:05	moritz	patches to change that would be appreciated
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10:13	grondilu	Check out this: perl6 --target=pir -e 'sub infix:<m+>($x, $y) { $x + $y }'
10:13	grondilu	===SORRY!===
10:13	grondilu	Serialization Error: could not locate static code ref for closure 'infix:sym<m+>'
10:13	grondilu	?
10:15	grondilu	Am I missing something?
10:16	grondilu	"perl6 --target=pir -e 'sub m($x, $y) { $x + $y }'" works just fine.
10:22	grondilu	Please do not all anwser in the same time :/
10:24	grondilu	In case you wonder, I wanted to precompile one of my library to make it faster. But I got the above error.
10:28		cognominal joined #perl6
10:29	TimToady	most of the experts are asleep or having Indian food :)
10:29	grondilu	ok, I'll wait, then.
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10:46	grondilu	r: sub postfix:<%> { $^x / 100 }; say 14% + 1; say 13 % 10;
10:46	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«1.14␤3␤»
10:46	grondilu	cool :)
10:53	FROGGS	ya, it is :o)
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11:12	flussence	re: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl[…]2-10-02#i_6031394 -- I have! :D
11:13	mathw	flussence: fun, isn't it!
11:14	flussence	worse than that, I had to fix it into a proper structure
11:15	mathw	I want to
11:15	mathw	but I can't
11:15	flussence	(which is real fun when the entire system you've been given is undocumented...)
11:15	mathw	oooh
11:15	mathw	at least I've got the author of the system in question here to beat up
11:15	mathw	sorry, ask questions of
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11:23	aharoni	moritz, I tried to fix that remaining test temp file issue: https://github.com/perl6/roast/pull/25
11:36	moritz	aharoni: nice. I'll probably won't get around to look at it today, but tomorrow your chances are very good
11:36	aharoni	Thank you, moritz.
11:36	moritz	(tomorrow is national holliday in .de)
11:40	ingy	jnthn: hi
11:40	ingy	jnthn: can you pass me my beer please?
11:41	* jnthn	does so
11:41		cognominal joined #perl6
11:41	* ingy	drinkz
11:42	jnthn	grondilu: Problem is that pre-compilation of things with custom operators doesn't work.
11:42	jnthn	grondilu: It's already on my "stuff that really needs fixing" list.
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12:00	flussence	I really really like .?() now. There's a thing I'm trying to do in $dayjob that'd be much easier if there was a short-circuiting -> op
12:02	grondilu	jnthn: ok.
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12:05	leont	Ah, a maybe operator, nice
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12:10	FROGGS	flussence: what does it do?
12:10	FROGGS	.?() I mean
12:13	Timbus	r: Any.?this-fails(); say 'alive';
12:13	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«alive␤»
12:13	daxim	http://doc.perl6.org/language/operators#postfix+.%3F
12:14	daxim	the point is that you can safely chain method calls
12:14	Timbus	kinda
12:15	Timbus	r: class A { method foo(Int $a){"got int"} }; say A.?foo('bar');
12:15	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$a'; expected Int but got Str instead␤ in method foo at /tmp/7WDloz6g6k:1␤ in block at /tmp/7WDloz6g6k:1␤␤»
12:15	Timbus	r: class A { multi method foo(Int $a){"got int"} }; say A.?foo('bar');
12:15	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'foo'; none of these signatures match:␤:(A : Int $a, Mu *%_)␤␤ in method foo at src/gen/CORE.setting:367␤ in block at /tmp/DoVzMTjshe:1␤␤»
12:25	jnthn	.? is not about bindability, just "is there a method with the right name"
12:32	FROGGS	so I can ask the object and it tells me (Bool) that the method exists or does it call the method?
12:32	jnthn	Calls it if it exists
12:32	FROGGS	daxims answer speaks for the latter
12:32	FROGGS	k
12:33	FROGGS	what does it do if the method doesnt exist?
12:33	FROGGS	is there a $! or something?
12:33		tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
12:34	moritz	it returns Nil
12:35	FROGGS	thanks
12:35	moritz	if you want $! set, you do to try $obj.?method() instead
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12:59	* [Coke]	wonders what diakopter's problem is.
12:59		hash_table joined #perl6
13:03	[Coke]	(referring to the discussion that occurred after sorear answered his C question)
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13:07	[Coke]	to clarify: sorear was trying to be helpful, and IMO, diakopter reacted very (too?) defensively.
13:08	[Coke]	nqp precedence question: +@args[0].getList()
13:09	[Coke]	is the + modifying the result of the getList method?
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13:09	[Coke]	jnthn: does nqp-latest support parrot HLL mappings for pmcs?
13:10	moritz	[Coke]: yes, the + binds less tight than method calls
13:10	jnthn	[Coke]: CompUnit lets you specify a hll
13:10	[Coke]	jnthn: yes, but I'm not seeing args autoconverted.
13:11	jnthn	Odd...you have custom PMCs?
13:11	[Coke]	quite possible I lost something in the upgrade process so far, just wondering if I should expect that to work (especially for slurpy args getting autoboxed into my list type)
13:11	[Coke]	they are classes now.
13:11	jnthn	How do you set up the mapping?
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13:12	[Coke]	I'm not sure that code survived. I'm just trying to find out if it's expected to work before I try to chase it down.
13:13	[Coke]	moritz++ #thanks.
13:13	[Coke]	jnthn: I don't see any declarations to try to make that mapping work, no.
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13:15	[Coke]	I suspect I'm going to be better off not relying on the autoconversion working (and therefore having methods available on every object that I put there), and instead move those methods to subs that can work with various types.
13:16	[Coke]	(that .getList() for example, is also available on strings to convert them to a list - but not on builtin strings, and not on slurpy @args)
13:17	[Coke]	sorry, on TclStrings and TclLists
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14:11	pmichaud	good morning, #perl6
14:12	moritz	good am, pm
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14:12	dalek	rakudo/nom: c1ddea8 \| pmichaud++ \| .gitignore:
14:12	dalek	rakudo/nom: Remove '*~' from .gitignore .
14:12	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/raku[…]commit/c1ddea84f4
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14:20	jnthn	hi, pmichaud
14:23		jaldhar joined #perl6
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14:34	* [Coke]	misread that commit hash as my last name.
14:34	[Coke]	O_o
14:37		hash_table joined #perl6
14:38	* [Coke]	adds more caffeine to be safe.
14:40		Kim_Breitwieser joined #perl6
14:40	mathw	\o/
14:41		jaldhar joined #perl6
14:41	* mathw	contacts FedEx pls send caffeine stop urgent stop
14:41	* mathw	is in need of tea
14:42	jnthn	[Coke]: It would be far more worrying if you misread a sha-1 hash as your first name... :)
14:44	jnthn	sleep &
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14:50	sirrobert	r: "a b c 4 e" ~~ /$<num>=(\d+)/; say $<num>; say $num;
14:50	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $num is not declared␤at /tmp/OZlTDMIt_b:1␤»
14:50	sirrobert	how do I refer to the var after capture?
14:50	* mathw	wonders what locale jnthn is in right now
14:50		cognominal joined #perl6
14:51	sirrobert	r: say "a b c 4 e" ~~ /$<num>=(\d+)/;
14:51	mathw	r: "a b c 4 e" ~~ /$<num>=(\d+)/; say $/<num>;
14:51	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«｢4｣␤ num => ｢4｣␤␤»
14:51	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«｢4｣␤␤»
14:51	FROGGS	r: "a b c 4 e" ~~ /$<num>=(\d+)/; say $<num>;
14:51	sirrobert	mathw: ah, thanks
14:51	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«｢4｣␤␤»
14:51	FROGGS	ya
14:51	mathw	$/ is the default match object
14:51	sirrobert	thanks, both
14:51		tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
14:52	mathw	I was kind of surprised I remember that correctly actually :)
14:52	mathw	I'm not very current on the finer points of matches
14:52	mathw	I should write some more Perl 6 :)
14:52	sirrobert	ahhh... I see my issue
14:52	sirrobert	the repl doesn't keep $/ from one command to the next.
14:53	FROGGS	I had no chance to write something for the last weeks ó.ò
14:53	mathw	aaah
14:54	flussence	r: my $m = "a b c 4 e".match(/$<num>=(\d+)/); say $m<num>;
14:54	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«｢4｣␤␤»
14:55	sirrobert	flussence: hm! I didn't know that
14:55	FROGGS	feels a little bit like javascript
14:55	sirrobert	I guess it's returning a Regex which uses a postcircumfix operator '<>' to access named captures?
14:55	mathw	oh yes you can save match objects
14:55	mathw	r: my $m = "a b c 4 e".match(/$<num>=(\d+)/); say $m.WHAT;
14:55	p6eval	rakudo 3d31af: OUTPUT«Match()␤»
14:57	mathw	it's a Match object, which contains the results of a regex match operation, and it implements the necessary roles to let you access named captures in a hash-like way and numbered captures in a list-like way
14:57	sirrobert	cool
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14:57	mathw	so you can use postfix [] for numbered captures
14:58	sirrobert	ahh, that's cool
14:58	mathw	and {} and <> and «» for named ones
14:58	sirrobert	and the special var $/ stores "last created Regex" ?
14:58	mathw	that's the Match object from the last match operation
15:00	mathw	the Regex object just has the pattern in it, Match is where the action is once you start doing things
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15:43	dalek	Perlito: 5488b30 \| (Flavio S. Glock)++ \| / (4 files):
15:43	dalek	Perlito: Perlito5 - js - migrate array and hash accessors from "js3" to "js"
15:43	dalek	Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perl[…]commit/5488b303f2
15:51	dalek	Perlito: 414f594 \| (Flavio S. Glock)++ \| README-perlito5-js:
15:51	dalek	Perlito: Perlito5 - js3 - README - add milestones
15:51	dalek	Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perl[…]commit/414f594666
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16:03	kresike	bye folks
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17:16	diakopter	[Coke]: you're right; I do have a problem. I'm trying to get help. <- please don't take as an excuse
17:21	[Coke]	hugme: hug diakopter
17:21	* hugme	hugs diakopter
17:24	[Coke]	diakopter:
17:39	[Coke]	whoops. ENOMESSAGE, sorry about that.
17:41		mjreed joined #perl6
17:42	mjreed	hello. What do we have in the way of introspection? How do I see what methods are defined on an object, what variables are defined, etc?
17:45	[Coke]	r: say Int.^methods;
17:45	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Int Num Rat FatRat abs Bridge chr sqrt base expmod is-prime floor round ceiling sign conj rand sin asin cos acos tan atan atan2 sec asec cosec acosec cotan acotan sinh asinh cosh acosh tanh atanh sech asech cosech acosech cotanh acotanh unpolar cis Complex log exp …
17:48	[Coke]	I don't know about variable introspections.
17:51	tadzik	r: say Int.^attributes
17:51	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«No such method 'gist' for invocant of type 'BOOTSTRAPATTR'␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:4825␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7250␤ in block at /tmp/c76MFh_Rn8:1␤␤»
17:51	tadzik	hehe, to clever
17:51	tadzik	r: say DateTime.^attributes
17:51	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«$!year $!month $!day $!hour $!minute $!second $!timezone &!formatter $!saved-offset␤»
17:52		buubot_backup joined #perl6
17:53	GlitchMr	r: say Str.^attributes
17:53	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«No such method 'gist' for invocant of type 'BOOTSTRAPATTR'␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:4825␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7250␤ in block at /tmp/UA2KNGzukW:1␤␤»
17:53	GlitchMr	r: say Set.^attributes
17:53	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«%!elems␤»
17:57	mjreed	Thanks!
18:00	[Coke]	should attributes be telling us the priva attributes?
18:04	tadzik	there is only one type of attributes :)
18:04	tadzik	they can only have public accessors
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18:35	mjreed	ok, another dumb question. Given declaration 'my Foo @foo', what's the best loopless way to initialize it to contain $n instances of Foo.new()?
18:36	GlitchMr	mjreed: my Foo @foo = Foo.new xx 8
18:36	mjreed	that won't get you 8 refs to the same Foo? Cool. Thanks.
18:36	GlitchMr	Where 8 is your number of instances
18:36	GlitchMr	...
18:36	GlitchMr	oh, perhaps it will
18:36	GlitchMr	oh, it doesn'
18:36	GlitchMr	t
18:36	GlitchMr	It doesn't
18:38	GlitchMr	mjreed:
18:38	GlitchMr	> rand xx 8
18:38	GlitchMr	0.26045819402589 0.758167870898859 0.671191730109182 0.588028023807915 0.819969979708805 0.181961273527108 0.60098118721211 0.477937755681602
18:38	GlitchMr	It's feature :-)
18:38	GlitchMr	rn: print join ' ', join xx 8
18:38	p6eval	niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤ 'xx' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1437 (die @ 5) â�¤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) â�¤ at /home/pâ€¦
18:38	p6eval	..rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&xx' called (line 1)␤»
18:38	GlitchMr	rn: print join ' ', rand xx 8
18:39	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«0.599440810809941 0.501246903880627 0.043752178355259 0.387303263970303 0.751670024253219 0.833972400039769 0.432674116824582 0.104679755674702»
18:39	p6eval	..niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«0.57264244257129837 0.13834876713266073 0.27021880693278222 0.91654168996798879 0.640887339897867 0.84707201963619894 0.87091507942924051 0.020385839985863231»
18:41		mjreed left #perl6
18:42	colomon	rn: class Foo { my $counter = 0; has $.index = $counter++; }; my @foo = Foo.new xx 8; say @foo>>.index;
18:42	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea, niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7␤»
18:43	GlitchMr	infix:<xx>, expression repetition operator
18:43	GlitchMr	I guess it explains the operator
18:44	GlitchMr	Foo.new xx 2 is like map { Foo.new }, ^2
18:51	colomon	yes
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19:14	nyuszika7h	ohai
19:14	tadzik	hello nyuszika7h
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19:14	nyuszika7h	rn: print 'hi'
19:14	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea, niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«hi»
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19:33	GlitchMr	hi
19:34	GlitchMr	rn: say 'hi'
19:34	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea, niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«hi␤»
19:34	sirrobert	how can I insert breakpoints in my code for the perl6-debug to catch (rakudo)
19:34	sirrobert	?
19:35	sirrobert	I mean, not during runtime
19:38	GlitchMr	I guess you cannot... yet
19:40	sirrobert	ok, thanks =)
19:45	GlitchMr	rn: Exception.new(:message<Hello, world!>).throw
19:45	p6eval	niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤ 'Exception' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1437 (die @ 5) â�¤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) â�¤ at /hoâ€¦
19:45	p6eval	..rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«␤ in block at /tmp/kho4NU2HNG:1␤␤»
19:45	GlitchMr	Uhmmm... how can I throw exceptions properly?
19:45	benabik	rn: throw "oops"
19:45	p6eval	niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUTÂ«===[0mSORRY!===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤ 'throw' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1437 (die @ 5) â�¤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) â�¤ at /homâ€¦
19:45	p6eval	..rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&throw' called (line 1)␤»
19:45	benabik	oops.
19:46	GlitchMr	I know I can use die
19:46	GlitchMr	But those exception types are to be used, aren't they?
19:47	GlitchMr	Oh, I have to extend them.
19:47	GlitchMr	ok
19:47	sirrobert	dunno =)
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19:57	flussence	r: X::AdHoc.new(:payload<hai>).throw
19:57	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«hai␤ in block at /tmp/oHnBmLfdHd:1␤␤»
19:58	GlitchMr	Perl 6 debugger is awesome: https://gist.github.com/3822919
19:58	sirrobert	So, I have a hash. When I try to "say %.hash.perl" the program pins the CPU at 100% (even in the debugger). How can I inspect it?
19:58	GlitchMr	But it looks better in action, with colors
19:59	GlitchMr	sirrobert: it's probably recursive hash then
19:59	GlitchMr	Currently, Perl 6 freezes on recursive hashes
19:59	sirrobert	What's a recursive hash?
19:59	sirrobert	a hash with itself as one of the elements?
19:59	sirrobert	one of the values?
19:59	GlitchMr	> my $a = {}
19:59	GlitchMr	().hash
19:59	GlitchMr	> $a<a> = $a
19:59	GlitchMr	yes
19:59	sirrobert	huh, ok. I don't think I did that, but maybe so =)
20:00	sirrobert	thanks, GM
20:00	GlitchMr	This hash contains $a<a><a><a><a><a><a><a><a>...
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20:27	aharoni	In the documentation of Types at doc.perl6.org, there are many specifications that say something like "multi sub chr(Int:D ) returns Str:D"
20:28	aharoni	What does the <:D> stand for?
20:28	moritz	defined
20:28	moritz	ie Int:D allows 1, 2 or 3 but not the Int type object
20:29	aharoni	I'm not sure that I understand the difference.
20:29	moritz	r: sub f(Int $x) { say $x.perl }; f(3)
20:29	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:29	moritz	r: sub f(Int $x) { say $x.perl }; f(Int)
20:29	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Int␤»
20:30	moritz	r: sub f(Int:D $x) { say $x.perl }; f(Int)
20:30	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Parameter '$x' requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤ in sub f at /tmp/FbDX8HwLgJ:1␤ in block at /tmp/FbDX8HwLgJ:1␤␤»
20:30	moritz	r: sub f(Int:D $x) { say $x.perl }; f(3)
20:30	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:30	sirrobert	or, if it helps:
20:30	sirrobert	r: say defined(Int); say defined(4);
20:30	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
20:31	sirrobert	(moritz's was more thorough =)
20:31	aharoni	OK, I understand the difference now, but I'm not sure what is f(Int) good for. Can I do anything with that object?
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20:31	moritz	sure
20:31	moritz	you can use it for type checking, for example
20:31	moritz	or for creating new instances
20:32	moritz	or for introspection
20:32	sirrobert	typechecking is the big deal (imho):
20:32	moritz	r: say grep Int, 1, 2, 'string', ['arr', 'ay']
20:32	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
20:32	moritz	there I pass the Int type object to the grep() function
20:33	sorear	or for type-friendly semipredicates, Maybe-style
20:33	sirrobert	my Int $foo; #do something else#; some_func($foo);
20:33	sirrobert	You don't know if $foo is defined or not at runtime, say.
20:33	sirrobert	But it does have to be an Int.
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20:34	aharoni	Ah, finally found it in http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html .
20:34	aharoni	I would expect it to appear in S03 - Operators, but I don't see anything like it there.
20:35	moritz	well, actually S06 is about subroutines, and the signatures belong to subroutines
20:35	moritz	so I'd expect it in S06, or maybe S02, beause everything is in S02 :-)
20:36	aharoni	I couldn't find it in S02 either. Of course, it's possible that I don't understand what to look for.
20:37	moritz	indeed, it's only in S12
20:40	sirrobert	What's the difference that makes the second one of these hang:
20:40	sirrobert	r: my %foo = {}; %foo ,= {a=>1}; say %foo;
20:40	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«("a" => 1).hash␤»
20:40	sirrobert	r: my $foo = {}; $foo ,= {a=>1}; say $foo;
20:40	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:41	sirrobert	r: my $foo = {}; say $foo; $foo ,= {a=>1}; say $foo;
20:41	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«(timeout)().hash␤»
20:41	sirrobert	it's definitely a hash before the freeze
20:43	benabik	$foo = $foo, {a => 1} ?
20:43	sirrobert	except $foo is initialized as a hash
20:43	sirrobert	r: my $foo = {}; $foo ,= $foo, {a=>1};
20:43	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: ( no output )
20:43	benabik	r: say {}, {a =>1}
20:44	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«().hash("a" => 1).hash␤»
20:44	sirrobert	no freeze
20:44	sirrobert	say {} ,= {a => 1};
20:44	benabik	r: say {{}, {a =>1}}, {b => 2}
20:44	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Block.new()("b" => 2).hash␤»
20:44	sirrobert	r: say {} ,= {a => 1};
20:44	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤ in block at src/gen/CORE.setting:12001␤ in block at /tmp/JCV68ujC4X:1␤␤»
20:44	sirrobert	that makes sense =)
20:44	benabik	().hash("a"=>1).hash ?
20:45	benabik	sirrobert: I don't think ,= does what you think it does.
20:45	sorear	sirrobert: my $foo = {}; $foo ,= {a => 1} # $foo is now self referential
20:45	sirrobert	benabik it does in the first example...
20:45	benabik	I think it's creating something recursive.
20:45	sirrobert	hmm
20:45	sirrobert	why does the first one work?
20:45	sirrobert	r: my %foo = {}; %foo ,= {a=>1}; say %foo;
20:45	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«("a" => 1).hash␤»
20:45	sorear	because you're using the % sigil
20:46	benabik	r: my $foo = {}; $foo = %{$foo, a => 1}; say $foo;
20:46	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name␤at /tmp/vIWEU0UONO:1␤»
20:46	sirrobert	so I can't quite use a hash stored in $ transparently...
20:46	benabik	Bah.
20:46	sirrobert	r: my Hash $foo = {}; $foo ,= $foo, {a=>1};
20:46	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$foo'; expected 'Hash' but got 'Parcel'␤ in block at src/gen/CORE.setting:12001␤ in block at /tmp/Ch4GzkH6ZL:1␤␤»
20:47	sirrobert	r: my Hash $foo; $foo ,= $foo, {a=>1};
20:47	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$foo'; expected 'Hash' but got 'Parcel'␤ in block at src/gen/CORE.setting:12001␤ in block at /tmp/YuRcfXoaRw:1␤␤»
20:47	sirrobert	huh
20:47	sorear	sirrobert: don't use ,= ever, it's very wasteful
20:47	sirrobert	I can see that the difference is $ vs %, but I don't understand why.
20:47	sirrobert	sorear: what's a better way to concatenate two hashes?
20:47	sirrobert	,= was suggested
20:48	sirrobert	or "merge" two hashes
20:48	sorear	can't you use .push for that?
20:49	sorear	anyway
20:49	sirrobert	I dunno
20:49	sorear	$foo ,= {} expands to $foo = $foo, {}
20:49	sorear	or rather $foo = ($foo, {})
20:49	sorear	$foo may be a hash, but the variable itself doesn't know that
20:49	sorear	so after that statement, you are left with $foo being a Parcel pair ($foo, {})
20:49	sirrobert	the reason that's a bummer is that means I can't do things like: %hash<x> = {...};
20:49	[Coke]	r: my $foo = {a=>1}; my $bar = {bar =>2}; $foo.push($bar); say $foo.perl;
20:49	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«Trailing item in Hash.push in block at /tmp/qiJedzNkOu:1␤␤{"a" => 1}␤»
20:50	sirrobert	then %hash<x> ,= %hash-y
20:50	[Coke]	r: my $foo = {a=>1}; my $bar = {bar =>2}; $foo.push($bar.kv); say $foo.perl;
20:50	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«{"a" => 1, "bar" => 2}␤»
20:50	[Coke]	sirrobert: there's a version with push
20:50	sirrobert	[Coke]: thanks =)
20:50	sirrobert	my other version was a for loop.
20:50	[Coke]	de nada
20:51	[Coke]	yah, I would ahve used a for loop, too. sorear++
20:57	sirrobert	r: my %foo = {a=>1}; my %bar = {b=>2}; say %foo.push: %bar;
20:57	p6eval	rakudo c1ddea: OUTPUT«("a" => 1, "b" => 2).hash␤»
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20:57	sirrobert	[Coke]: fwiw, the .kv isn't needed.
21:03	[Coke]	it was in my example.
21:04	[Coke]	look at the scrollback.
21:07	sirrobert	yeah, I was saying I re-tried your example... it works without the .kv
21:07	sirrobert	in case it was helpful
21:11	colomon	sirrobert++
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21:31	[Coke]	I'm saying I just got an error without the kv.
21:31	[Coke]	can you show an example here that doesn't use the colon syntax, uses the $ var, and doesn't get the error?
21:31	[Coke]	(you changed both of those from my example: i'm betting it's the %-sigils that let it work.
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22:04	sorear	OT: SHA3 contest closes! http://www.nist.gov/itl/csd/sha-100212.cfm
22:06	rindolf	sorear: interesting.
22:06	rindolf	sorear: someone once interested me in optimising one of the entries for this competition, but they ended up not wanting my help.
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