# IRC log for #perl6, 2012-10-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:24 colomon rn: say (*.value > 2)(1 => 4)
01:24 p6eval rakudo ebc730, niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«True␤»
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02:19 colomon rn: say (1..10 Z=> 'a'..'z').classify(*.key).perl
02:19 p6eval niecza v22-6-g9e5350d: OUTPUT«("10" => [10 => "j"], "9" => [9 => "i"], "8" => [8 => "h"], "7" => [7 => "g"], "6" => [6 => "f"], "5" => [5 => "e"], "4" => [4 => "d"], "3" => [3 => "c"], "2" => [2 => "b"], "1" => [1 => "a"]).list␤»
02:19 p6eval ..rakudo ebc730: OUTPUT«("1" => [1 => "a"], "2" => [2 => "b"], "3" => [3 => "c"], "4" => [4 => "d"], "5" => [5 => "e"], "6" => [6 => "f"], "7" => [7 => "g"], "8" => [8 => "h"], "9" => [9 => "i"], "10" => [10 => "j"]).hash␤»
02:23 colomon list versus hash.  who'd win?
02:25 colomon ah, supposed to be a hash
02:25 colomon hmmm
02:32 timotimo r: say (1.10 Z=> 'a'..'z').classify(*.key % 3)
02:32 p6eval rakudo ebc730: OUTPUT«("1.1" => [11/10 => "a"]).hash␤»
02:33 timotimo r: say (1..10 Z=> 'a'..'z').classify(*.key % 3)
02:33 p6eval rakudo ebc730: OUTPUT«("1" => [1 => "a", 4 => "d", 7 => "g", 10 => "j"], "2" => [2 => "b", 5 => "e", 8 => "h"], "0" => [3 => "c", 6 => "f", 9 => "i"]).hash␤»
02:33 timotimo that's cute
02:34 colomon it's a terrific little method when you need it.  :)
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02:39 dalek niecza: 7df6137 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
02:39 dalek niecza: .classify and .categorize are supposed to return hashes -- make it so.
02:39 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7df6137c06
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02:53 dalek roast: 316e321 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S02-names-vars/names.t:
02:53 dalek roast: Change fudge from todo to skip to get the test file working on Niecza again.
02:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/316e321b9e
03:01 dalek roast: a5194c1 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S02-names/symbolic-deref.t:
03:01 dalek roast: Fudge for niecza.
03:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a5194c1842
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09:23 dalek rakudo/nom: fa7fca7 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
09:23 dalek rakudo/nom: :ss implies :s; allow :samespace and :ss on s///
09:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fa7fca745c
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09:53 timbunce I'm looking for perl6 talk slides that convey the breadth & depth of language features. Something I can condense to ~10mins. Any suggestions?
09:54 timbunce I'm skimming through jnthn's at the moment. Lots of detail but less of the Big Picture.
09:54 timbunce I'll go find pmichaud's next.
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10:44 moritz timbunce: I'd look at jnthn's "Perl 6: Quicker Hacks, More Maintainable Apps"
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12:02 edwin_ hi perl6!
12:03 edwin_ I wonder if there is a natural inverse to :60[\$a, \$b, \$c]
12:03 rindolf edwin_: hello.
12:03 rindolf edwin_: what's up?
12:03 edwin_ i.e. given \$x produce the list \$x % 60, (\$x div 60) % 60, ...
12:05 edwin_ http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Main_step_of_GOST_28147-89#Perl_6
12:05 timbunce moritz: yeap, got that one. thanks. And I've just found http://pmichaud.com/2012/pres/
12:06 moritz edwin_: I wonder if Int.base should accept a :list adverb
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12:08 edwin_ moritz, sounds good. would that give a lazy list ending in ,0 xx * ?
12:09 edwin_ or one could specify how many "digits" are wanted
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12:13 moritz edwin_: on an integer, it's always a finiite list
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12:15 edwin_ ok, so one would have to extend with zeroes explicitly to fill a fixed size array of digits, for example
12:15 moritz yes
12:16 edwin_ it seems like an easy problem made hard by a plethora of bike sheds :)
12:16 Timbus n: \a = "wait what?"; say a;
12:16 p6eval niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/453OCVCAM6 line 1:â�¤------> [32m\a [33mâ��[31m= "wait what?"; say a;[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
12:16 edwin_ I know that I would like to have this functionality, but I cannot decide exactly how I'd want it
12:17 Timbus r: \a = "wait what?"; say a;
12:17 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead␤at /tmp/rSmO9fKxOb:1␤»
12:17 Timbus que
12:17 moritz r: my \a = "lol"; say a
12:17 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«lol␤»
12:18 moritz only works in declarations
12:18 Timbus what the heck aaaaa
12:20 Timbus the lack of sigil confuses and infuriates me. how long has this been a feature
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12:21 moritz then don't use the feature
12:21 moritz it's been specced for several month
12:21 moritz and implemented for maybe two months
12:22 moritz it's very useful if you don't want to impose a context
12:22 moritz beause sigils are tied to context
12:23 Timbus oh okay its fairly newish then
12:26 edwin_ it's nice if you just want to name an expression, not put it in a container, I find
12:27 Timbus that is kinda neat, yes
12:27 edwin_ I think it will take me some time to find a balance, when to use it and when not
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12:27 edwin_ but experimenting with it on RC is a lot of fun :)
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12:40 _edwin moritz, what would be a good way to contribute to doc.perl6.org (with sparse tuits)?
12:46 moritz _edwin: write more docs, review the new ones, write some CSS for it
12:46 moritz s/new/existing/
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13:10 _edwin wow, htmlify.pl takes some time
13:14 moritz I know :(
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13:22 timbunce When is Perl 6's official birthday? How old is it?
13:26 moritz 2000-07-18
13:26 moritz according to http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/happy-10th-anniversary-perl-6
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13:38 timbunce moritz: umm, yeah. I was there when the coffee mug hit the wall. I'd call that the Conception of Perl 6, but not the birth. Got a first release date of something we could perl perl6?
13:39 timbunce *something we could call perl6
13:40 moritz well, apart from the mug throwing, there aren't many really notable dates
13:40 moritz maybe the first R* release
13:40 moritz or the first pugs release
13:40 moritz or... I don't know
13:40 moritz it's really up to interpretation
13:40 timbunce The first pugs release seems like a clear milestone. Got a date?
13:41 timbunce though perhaps R* was more clearly 'perl6'
13:41 timbunce Was July 2010 the first R* release? https://github.com/rakudo/star/blob/master/docs/announce/2010.07
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13:42 moritz yes
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13:43 timbunce ok, thanks.
13:43 moritz http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/ChangeLog lists February 7, 2005 as the first pugs release to CPAN
13:47 timbunce thanks.
13:48 timbunce There used to be a http://rakudo.org/status page that had a graph showing the growth in the number of tests (pass/fail/todo etc). Is that still available somewhere?
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14:12 dalek Perlito: 4f2b998 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
14:12 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js - remove "null"s
14:12 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/4f2b99831c
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14:47 moritz timbunce: no. I've stopped doing that because lots of people would draw entirely wrong concolusions from it
14:47 timbunce pity, but I understand.
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15:14 * jnthn is home from Japan
15:14 jnthn The temperature and humidity here are sane! \o/
15:15 moritz welcome back jnthn
15:15 diakopter jnthn: hi!
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16:10 timbunce I'd love to see a chart showing the percentage of perl 6 written in perl 6 (or NPQ) over time.
16:13 arnsholt There's a video on pmichaud's blog which has two pie charts
16:13 arnsholt Not a comprehensive overview, but a start =)
16:18 timbunce arnsholt: ah yes, http://pmichaud.com/2012/pres/yapcna-perflt/slides/slide37.html thanks
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17:23 raiph timbunce: maybe footnote sourcecode piechart -- i think a lot of PIR has been removed since that chart
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17:24 timbunce raiph: cool. I've summarized it as "Mostly implemented in Perl6 (>60% and rising)" (glossing over the perl6 vs NQP distinction)
17:25 jnthn The big thing that happened on that angle in the last couple of months is that NQP lost most of its PIR also
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19:08 mathw o/
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20:56 grondilu nr: sub f(\x) { x }; say f "weird signature"
20:57 p6eval rakudo fa7fca, niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUT«weird signature␤»
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21:00 diakopter nr: sub f(\x) { x x x }; say f "10"
21:01 p6eval rakudo fa7fca, niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUT«10101010101010101010␤»
21:01 Coleoid Hi, #perl6 people!
21:02 timbunce Is the perl6 code on page 71 of http://www.slideshare.net/Tim.Bunce/perl-myths-200909 still valid?
21:02 timbunce and page 72, while I'm asking.
21:03 diakopter type it into a gist, then give the gist url to p6eval here
21:03 timbunce oops, scratch that. page 72 isn't code in that old version
21:03 flussence I don't see anything in there that's changed significantly since 2009
21:04 diakopter well, with rn: or r: or n:
21:04 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/1JH8ZDyok9:1␤»
21:04 p6eval ..niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Confused at /tmp/1HEnJJiJb9 line 1:â�¤------> [32mhttps[33mâ��[31m://gist.github.com/e7b40eff9532273ad9be[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤        'https' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
21:04 diakopter also, I think it may work only with public gists
21:04 timbunce rn: https://gist.github.com/3846123
21:05 p6eval niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUT«2♣ 10♡ 4♢ 10♢ 3♡␤29␤»
21:05 p6eval ..rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«5♢ 3♡ K♠ 7♣ 2♡␤27␤»
21:05 timbunce great, thanks diakopter and flussence
21:06 timbunce any thoughts on this code https://gist.github.com/3846125 ?
21:06 timbunce I suspect some of that is outdated now
21:07 flussence not sure about the last 2 but the rest should work fine...
21:07 flussence r: my @fib = 1,1 ... &[+]; say @fib[3..10]
21:07 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«Any() Any() Any() Any() Any() Any() Any() Any()␤»
21:08 flussence r: my @fib := 1,1 ... &[+]; say @fib[3..10]
21:08 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«␤»
21:08 flussence huh
21:08 timbunce r: @fib = 1, 1, *+* ... *; say @fib[3..10]
21:08 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @fib is not declared␤at /tmp/1SPSLx4EIi:1␤»
21:08 flussence r: my @fib := 1,1,&[+] ... *; say @fib[3..10]
21:08 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89␤»
21:08 timbunce r: my @fib = 1, 1, *+* ... *; say @fib[3..10]
21:08 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89␤»
21:09 timbunce thanks
21:10 diakopter rn: my @fib = 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 *+*+*+*+*+*+* ... *; say @fib[3..30]
21:10 grondilu will timeout
21:10 p6eval niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
21:10 p6eval ..rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«1 1 1 6 11 21 41 81 161 321 636 1261 2501 4961 9841 19521 38721 76806 152351 302201 599441 1189041 2358561 4678401 9279996 18407641 36513081 72426721␤»
21:11 * grondilu won
21:12 diakopter r: my @fib = 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 *+*+*+*+*+*+* ... *; say @fib[300]
21:12 * grondilu is impressed that rakudo made it though
21:12 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«14841968777336497314060737665068870911960995493577970820884303630027584832208307226122246␤»
21:12 flussence my brain can't parse that "1,1 *+*"
21:12 diakopter what if you want to use a prior term more than once
21:13 grondilu diakopter: you need to be more explicit in writing the closure
21:13 grondilu like { \$^x + \$x**2 + \$^y }
21:13 grondilu imho
21:14 sorear good * #perl6
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21:16 diakopter sorear: o/
21:17 grondilu Does sockets work for you?
21:17 grondilu *Do
21:18 Coleoid Can I eval code in a base class method and have it alter a variable in a derived class?
21:20 diakopter what kind of variable?
21:22 Coleoid But the reason I'm evalling and subclassing is that I want the effects to be different per class.
21:22 diakopter you can have it run a method which alters a variable
21:24 Coleoid I want the user to type Perl 6 code, and have the class check that it had the effect they wanted.
21:26 Coleoid So I want them able to set a scalar, or several, or set a list, or ...
21:26 Coleoid I hoped to abstract the eval & check success loop into a base class, and it _looks_ good, but it's not working.
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21:32 Coleoid A non-OO answer would be fine with me, but my first attempt at that (passing the success check code block as an argument to the eval loop) had the same problem, and others besides.
21:33 diakopter I'm having trouble picturing the code's structure
21:33 moritz Coleoid: sounds like role composition would fit better, because it adds the method right into the derived class
21:34 moritz Coleoid: but it would be even better if you stated your actual use case; maybe there's a neat solution for it
21:34 moritz but I fear I have to go to sleep now; will backlog
21:34 Coleoid https://gist.github.com/3846209
21:35 Coleoid diakopter: sorry, meant to post the gist sooner.
21:36 Coleoid moritz:  I'll try a role!  As for the use case,
21:38 Coleoid It's a kid's P6 fantasy adventure, where the spell-caster needs to do magic via Perl 6 code.
21:40 flussence I think you should do the eval in the other class.
21:40 flussence you don't really need a class either, just a sub that takes the string to eval and returns true/false
21:41 Coleoid Which works okay for the first quest,
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21:43 Coleoid But I don't see how I can get it to check different code for each class.  I suppose I could pass in the success check to be eval'ed also?
21:45 diakopter put the different success checks in subs and pass in references to the subs
21:46 Coleoid ...
21:46 diakopter ?
21:46 flussence r: my \$a := :: ; say \$a.perl
21:46 diakopter "wat."? :)
21:46 Coleoid That sounds like it could work...
21:46 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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21:47 flussence r: sub a(\x) { say x.perl }; a(::);
21:47 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«PseudoStash.new("!UNIT_MARKER", !UNIT_MARKER, "GLOBALish", GLOBAL, "EXPORT", EXPORT, "\\$?PACKAGE", GLOBAL, "::?PACKAGE", GLOBAL, "\\$_", Any, "\\$/", Any, "\\$!", Any, "\&a", sub a(\x) { ... }, "\\$=pod", Array.new(), )␤»
21:49 Coleoid So :: is a sub?
21:49 flussence r: sub a(\x) { x<foo> eq 'bar' }; sub b(\string, \code) { my \$foo = ''; \code(::) }; say b("\$foo = 'bar'", &a);
21:49 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable \$foo is not declared␤at /tmp/BdUg717KU5:1␤»
21:49 Coleoid No, I see, it's a pseudostash.
21:50 grondilu r: say ::.WHAT
21:50 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«PseudoStash()␤»
21:50 flussence r: sub a(\x) { x<foo> eq 'bar' }; sub b(\string, &code) { my \$foo = ''; eval string; &code(::) }; say b("\$foo = 'bar'", &a);
21:50 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable \$foo is not declared␤at /tmp/n0nSfeynI9:1␤»
21:50 flussence r: sub a(\x) { x<foo> eq 'bar' }␤ sub b(\string, &code) { my \$foo = ''; eval string; &code(::) }␤ say b("\$foo = 'bar'", &a);
21:50 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable \$foo is not declared␤at /tmp/fyLLOxGGOh:3␤»
21:50 grondilu in which synopsis is :: described?
21:50 flussence oh wait.
21:51 flussence r: sub a(\x) { x<foo> eq 'bar' }␤ sub b(\string, &code) { my \$foo = ''; eval string; &code(::) }␤ say b(q{\$foo = 'bar'}, &a);
21:51 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in sub a at /tmp/RHe0pT3NbS:1␤␤False␤»
21:51 flussence r: sub a(\x) { x{'\$foo'} eq 'bar' }␤ sub b(\string, &code) { my \$foo = ''; eval string; &code(::) }␤ say b(q{\$foo = 'bar'}, &a);
21:51 p6eval rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:51 flussence there.
21:51 Coleoid Nice!
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21:54 flussence I don't think it's even in the spec
21:54 flussence n: say ::
21:54 p6eval niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUT«PseudoStash.new(...)␤»
21:54 flussence it's cross-platform though.
21:55 flussence rn: sub a(\$x) { \$x{'\$foo'} eq 'bar' }␤ sub b(\$string, &code) { my \$foo = ''; eval \$string; &code(::) }␤ say b(q{\$foo = 'bar'}, &a);
21:55 p6eval niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤  \$foo is declared but not used at /tmp/rXx6YEE3zG line 2:â�¤------> [32m sub b(\$string, &code) { my [33mâ��[31m\$foo = ''; eval \$string; &code(::) }[0mâ�¤â�¤Trueâ�¤Â»
21:55 p6eval ..rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:55 flussence rn: sub a(\$x) { \$x{'\$foo'} eq 'bar' }␤ sub b(\$string, &code) { my \$foo = ''; eval \$string; &code(::) }␤ say b(q{\$foo = 'bazzzzzzzz'}, &a);
21:55 p6eval niecza v22-7-g7df6137: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤  \$foo is declared but not used at /tmp/SlSscbAwrJ line 2:â�¤------> [32m sub b(\$string, &code) { my [33mâ��[31m\$foo = ''; eval \$string; &code(::) }[0mâ�¤â�¤Falseâ�¤Â»
21:55 p6eval ..rakudo fa7fca: OUTPUT«False␤»
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22:31 Coleoid So :: is the namespace hash, and we pass it in to the check-match method, and the check-match fetches the values it wants from the hash, instead of straight evaluation.
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22:36 Moukeddar \o perl6
22:37 sorear o/
22:40 Moukeddar how are you doing?
22:56 Moukeddar what are genetic algorithms good for ?
22:58 diakopter evolving code or a dataset that drives code based on fitness evaluation
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23:00 diakopter so, you need a good way to measure fitness of a generation/individual
23:05 Moukeddar alright, i've been told that's what i need to generate schedule for different groups of students, while respecting some constraints
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23:14 Moukeddar ?
23:27 diakopter ? :)
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23:38 Moukeddar i get the basic idea, the gene and chromosome