Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-11-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:45 cotto Every single time I see what's getting implemented in Rakudo I get sad that most of the people who are hiring are looking for someone to maintain a pile of crappy PHP code.
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00:57 timotimo jnthn: that looks beautiful
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01:55 colomon jnthn++
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02:22 benabik jnthn++ # "I’m still not sure if this is beautiful or horrifying, but now it’s in place."
02:23 cotto I liked that quote.
02:26 gfldex i cheated a little but beaten the python folks: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions​/8915/write-a-program-that-uses-all-printab​le-non-alphanumeric-ascii-symbols/8925#8925
02:31 colomon gfldex++
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03:56 diakopter .. that thing where you can't find a bit of code you wrote in a program, but you swear is there somewhere
03:57 benabik deja code?
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04:17 cotto I usually end up rewriting it then finding the original version 30 seconds later.
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06:19 diakopter this is a new one. Vince Vaughn and Bruce Willis in the same movie..
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06:28 diakopter </[OT]>
06:29 * sorear doesn't even know the topic
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06:32 diakopter heh
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08:03 FROGGS morning
08:03 diakopter o/
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08:07 tadzik good morning
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08:08 grondilu r: my &plus = *+*; sub infix:<+> { ($^a + $^b) % 10 }; say 7+6
08:08 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 88987 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:42692) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9121)␤called from Sub 'infix:<+>' pc 175 ((file unknown):202) (/tmp/J_sp9SzpJl:1)␤called from Sub 'infix:<+>' pc 201 ((file unknown):2…
08:09 grondilu r: my &plus = *+*; sub infix:<+> { &plus($^a,$^b) % 10 }; say 7+6
08:09 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 88987 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:42692) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9121)␤called from Sub 'infix:<+>' pc 175 ((file unknown):234) (/tmp/FfE0FdoDB5:1)␤called from Sub '' pc 168 ((file unknown):226) (/tmp…
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08:09 grondilu r: BEGIN { our &plus = *+* }; sub infix:<+> { &plus($^a,$^b) % 10 }; say 7+6
08:09 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«No such method 'Nil' for invocant of type 'Parcel'␤  in  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:845␤  in  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:839␤  in any  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:836␤  in sub infix:<+> at /tmp/2NSTCA9RJ1:1␤  in block  at /tmp/2NSTCA9RJ1:1␤␤»
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08:10 diakopter r: my &plus = BEGIN { &infix:<+> }; sub infix:<+> { &plus($^a,$^b) % 10 }; say 7+6
08:10 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«3␤»
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08:11 grondilu diakopter: thanks!
08:11 diakopter yw
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08:14 diakopter anyone happen to know of any fancy spiffy novel queue lock algorithms?
08:14 diakopter unbounded concurrency, no timeouts
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08:17 diakopter unbounded concurrency (so no array-based, unless it's an ever-doubling two-level array), don't need abortable/timeouts
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08:28 azawawi hi
08:28 azawawi jnthn: ping
08:29 azawawi star: sub ncurses_initscr() is native('libncurses')     { ... };
08:29 p6eval star 2012.10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot call 'trait_mod:<is>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U $child, Mu:U $parent)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, :rw(:$rw)!)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, :readonly(:$readonly)!)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, :box_target(:$box_target)!)␤:(Routine:D $r, :rw(:$rw)!)␤:(Routi…
08:29 azawawi star: use NativeCall; sub ncurses_initscr() is native('libncurses')     { ... };
08:29 p6eval star 2012.10:  ( no output )
08:29 azawawi star: use NativeCall; sub ncurses_initscr() is native('libncurses')     { ... }; ncurses_initscr;
08:30 p6eval star 2012.10: OUTPUT«Cannot locate native library 'libncurses.so'␤  in method postcircumfix:<( )> at /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.6.0/la​nguages/perl6/lib/NativeCall.pm6:122␤  in  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:827␤  in any  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:811␤  in block  at /tmp/oUculDXx6J:1␤␤»…
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08:40 azawawi star: use NativeCall; sub ncurses_initscr() is native('libncurses.5.so')     { ... }; ncurses_initscr;
08:40 p6eval star 2012.10: OUTPUT«Cannot locate native library 'libncurses.5.so'␤  in method postcircumfix:<( )> at /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.6.0/la​nguages/perl6/lib/NativeCall.pm6:122␤  in  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:827␤  in any  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:811␤  in block  at /tmp/h_35n0nGGt:1␤␤»…
08:40 azawawi star: use NativeCall; sub initscr() is native('libncurses.5.so')     { ... }; initscr;
08:40 p6eval star 2012.10: OUTPUT«Cannot locate native library 'libncurses.5.so'␤  in method postcircumfix:<( )> at /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.6.0/la​nguages/perl6/lib/NativeCall.pm6:122␤  in  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:827␤  in any  at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:811␤  in block  at /tmp/RmwsfE_Qvp:1␤␤»…
08:56 diakopter if I can find/discover an appropriate scalable queue lock, I can get rid of 5million failed CAS/s
08:58 bonsaikitten why is the locking needed? (iow, are lockless algos maybe useful here?)
09:00 diakopter the "lock" is really just access to the memory each wants to CAS. So, to remove contention on that location, a queue lock can be used. it's for implementing a lock-free algorithm
09:01 diakopter heh.
09:02 diakopter well hmm, never mind, seems I confused myself there again.  a queue lock wouldn't help. sry nm
09:03 diakopter but I need something to reduce CAS contention. simple exponential backoff is helping a little, but it's constraining throughput
09:04 * diakopter heads out for a midnight snack
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10:50 Woodi diakopter: google for "linked list lazy concurent" in pdf by Nir Shavit, there is nice explanation. Shavit is good source for new concurency things :)
10:50 Woodi i can paste link if you want
10:53 diakopter sure
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10:58 * flussence wants fork() just to write sane http server tests... I'm half tempted to use NativeCall
10:59 arnsholt Well, the good news are that it won't require any NativeCall hacks =)
10:59 arnsholt But I'm not sure how happy Parrot is with random forking
11:00 flussence I tried it on the repl once. It works, fsvo "work" :)
11:06 Woodi diakopter: link: http://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&​amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=1&amp;cad=rja&​amp;ved=0CCMQFjAA&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.t​au.ac.il%2F~shanir%2Fnir-pubs-web%2FPapers%2FLa​zy_Concurrent.pdf&amp;ei=I5KbUMTSL4SC4ATw04CIBw​&amp;usg=AFQjCNF8qs2Wf5WiAsVFZyYlFNb67_vPrg
11:08 Woodi or better this: http://people.csail.mit.edu/shanir​/publications/Lazy_Concurrent.pdf :)
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11:27 flussence just got a nice shock at $dayjob: I ran "grep cron /var/log/*" on an old debian 3.0 box to try and figure out if it was in use. It ran aptitude and passed a bunch of garbage input to it...
11:28 huf wha
11:28 huf flussence: how did this happen?
11:28 flussence dunno, probably seriously screwed up handling of control characters
11:29 huf heh :)
11:29 flussence (this thing is so old bash doesn't even have *readline support*)
11:30 moritz wtf?
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11:56 * grondilu posted a question about style for plural form for names of variables: http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=1002881
11:57 grondilu ^ what dyou think about this, guys?
11:58 grondilu I know it's not a big problem but it's kind of annoying me each time I have to chose a name for an array variable.
11:59 cognominal grondilu, where are you living?
11:59 grondilu France.  Why?
11:59 cognominal near Paris?
12:00 grondilu No.  I left Paris a few months ago.  I live in Picardie, now.
12:00 cognominal do you know the mongueurs?
12:00 grondilu Not much.
12:00 cognominal ha, too bad.
12:01 cognominal I have seen you are taking over the French wp article about Perl 6. that's good because I have not updated it much the last few years
12:03 cognominal there is some crap (about history mostly) added by well intentionned people I did not  remove to not discourage further collaboration that did not materialize. I hope you will be more drastic than I was.
12:05 cognominal grondilu, there is a french channel #perlfr on irc.perl.org
12:05 grondilu "taking over" is not the right expression.  I just thought is need a sreious update indeed.  But I don't have much more ideas about what to add now.
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12:06 grondilu 'thought it needed a serious'   (cold fingers)
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12:07 cognominal grondilu: about the plural for arrays, I think it is considered as a best practice in Damian's book
12:08 cognominal I don't think there is anything about roles because they were not implemented when I wrote the article.
12:09 grondilu If I were to change something, I would probably split the whole big section in two.  One part for the differences with P5, and an other for the totally new features.
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12:47 grondilu rn:  my $pos = 0; for <G T A> { "ACGTACGTGACG" ~~ m:c($pos)/$_/; say $pos = $/.from; }
12:47 p6eval rakudo f81716, niecza v22-19-gd874a8e: OUTPUT«0␤0␤0␤»
12:49 moritz grondilu: don't use $_ on the RHS of ~~
12:49 moritz because ~~ sets $_ to the LHS
12:49 grondilu rn:  my $pos = 0; for <G T A> -> $l { "ACGTACGTGACG" ~~ m:c($pos)/$l/; say $pos = $/.from; }
12:49 p6eval rakudo f81716, niecza v22-19-gd874a8e: OUTPUT«2␤3␤4␤»
12:49 grondilu indeed.  Thanks
12:50 jnthn afternoon o/
12:50 moritz \o jnthn
12:51 bowtie hi, could some please kick me in the direction some documentation on how to implement __DATA__ and extract in perl6 please
12:51 moritz bowtie: see S26, it's supposed to be done with POD directives
12:52 moritz =for DATA   or so
12:52 moritz it mostly works, but the variables for installing the stuff aren't installed yet
12:52 bowtie moritz,  thanks, but what is S26
12:52 FROGGS the tests in roast are helpful too about $=pod (DATA)
12:54 FROGGS bowtie: S26 is the spec of that feature; how it should be implemented
12:54 daxim http://perlcabal.org/syn/S26.html
12:54 FROGGS have a look at these files: https://github.com/perl6/roast/​blob/master/S26-documentation/
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13:06 lumi__ r: role Disposing { method dispose { say self ~ " disposed" } }; macro RAII($res, $code) { quasi { my $x = {{{$res}}}; {{{$code}}}($x); LEAVE $x.dispose } }; class C does Disposing {}; RAII C.new, -> $res { say "Processing..." }
13:06 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«Cannot assign into a PMCNULL container␤  in  at /tmp/QtyefRqAMZ:1␤  in block  at /tmp/QtyefRqAMZ:1␤␤»
13:12 bowtie thanks for the info on 'Data Blocks' in S26, when I tried the examples they don't work, is that to be expected at this time
13:12 lumi__ r: macro foo($res) { quasi { my $x := {{{$res}}} } }; foo []
13:13 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«Lexical '$x' not found␤  in  at /tmp/kiHqOaE_vO:1␤  in block  at /tmp/kiHqOaE_vO:1␤␤»
13:15 jnthn bowtie: I seem to recall seeing that on the roadmap, so I guess it's in need of some implementation.
13:16 bowtie jnthn, thanks for that, I will go and look at some other bit's of 6 for now :)
13:17 lumi__ So what's up with those weird errors?
13:17 lumi__ Is that the blocks-in-macros thing?
13:19 jnthn lumi__: More generally, declarations in macros.
13:20 jnthn lumi__: Though I think masak knows a bit of why this happens now, so hopefully it can be fixed a bit... :)
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14:33 isBEKaml [Coke]: (backlogs) I see that you had failed pugs builds. Are you on an updated GHC, by any chance?
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14:40 isBEKaml weird, I can't seem to access jnthn++'s blog.
14:40 isBEKaml I only got back a google-cached version.
14:41 GlitchMr isBEKaml: You can read it on Planet Six
14:41 GlitchMr Also, I can read jnthn's blog...
14:42 isBEKaml yeah, that's what I'm doing now.
14:42 isBEKaml but it takes a long time to load for me (too much content there...)
14:44 isBEKaml more weirdness: this page doesn't give me any results either -> http://en.search.wordpress.com/?q=6guts
14:44 isBEKaml I can view wordpress.com fine, though.
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15:18 brrt hi #perl6
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15:34 [Coke] phenny: tell isBEKaml that I'm using whatever is installed on feather.
15:34 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when isBEKaml is around.
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15:55 Ulti bowtie one thing to be aware of is $=pod doesn't work from compiled modules atm unless someone has fixed that in the last couple of months
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18:10 tadzik good evening #perl6
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18:13 diakopter o/
18:13 [Coke] quiet today. jnthn must be recuperating after filling up the changelog. :)
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18:15 PerlJam Maybe everyone is busy writing posts for the 2012 Perl 6 Advent Calendar ...
18:16 * jnthn spent most of the day resting, since last night's headache turned into an everythingache by this morning.
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18:21 [Coke] fluish?
18:22 jnthn I seem to lack any other flu symptoms.
18:23 PerlJam The dreaded oldage virus?  :)
18:24 * masak .oO( jnthn? old? ) :P
18:26 jnthn Yeah, seems a bit early for that one :P
18:31 masak old age doesn't hit until 28 or 29... :)
18:32 huf that age is certainly the "oldest"
18:32 huf in the sense that they complain most about being old
18:32 huf at least in my experience :)
18:32 PerlJam It's all downhill after age 25 ... luckily the downslope is quite a bit shallower than the upslope
18:32 daxim iunex with 30 (or 32 when counting base 2), senex with 60 (or 64)
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19:16 bowtie Ulti, thanks for the heads up
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19:28 masak a person has sent me an email in my role as "an author of a web-master program writen in perl6".
19:29 jnthn The word "web-master" is still used? :)
19:29 masak he's planning to write a web application (in Perl 6) that uses mysql.
19:29 masak he's asking about prior art and whether anything in my program is stealable.
19:29 masak (not sure if he's referring to November or psyde, but nevermind)
19:30 masak I have half a mind to just refer him to http://github.com/tadzik/zblog -- any other suggestions?
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19:30 tadzik well, źblog is hardly a good example of a proper web application :)
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19:32 tadzik but probably is a short, useful example
19:32 masak it's small. it uses Bailador and DBIish. it works.
19:33 tadzik true
19:36 * masak sent a short, working reply :)
19:53 sorear o/
19:53 masak sorear! \o/
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20:25 masak 'night, #perl6.
20:25 colomon \o
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21:10 felher jnthn++ # latest blog post
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23:44 felher r: say << a b c d 'ab cd' >>.perl;
23:44 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«(("a", "b", "c", "d"), "ab cd")␤»
23:46 felher Not what i expected. Is this correct?
23:46 felher r: << a b c d e 'ab cd' >>.tree>>.say
23:46 p6eval rakudo f81716: OUTPUT«ab cd␤a b c d e␤»
23:47 sorear not really correct but not really wrong either
23:48 sorear .tree is one of those "I know what I'm doing" buttons
23:48 sorear I don't think you're supposed to care about parcel layout except in some specific cases, like zip operators
23:49 felher sorear: okay, thanks :)
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