Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-11-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:32 jnthn phenny: tell pmurias !cursor_next handles it; the bstack survives and it hands back a 1 for restart, which makes the generated code jump straight to fail (and thus it backtracks and produces the next feasible cursor)
00:32 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around.
00:32 phenny jnthn: 24 Nov 08:35Z <moritz> tell jnthn currently nqp::can(module { }, 'something') dies; that blocks my current sink efforts; any idea how to fix that?
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01:01 grondilu jnthn: with zavolaj, it's not possible to send a Buf as char* string, is it?
01:02 arnsholt Nope
01:03 arnsholt If you need to send arbitrary byte arrays to C, you'll have to use CArray[int] (and do the byte packing yourself) ATM
01:03 arnsholt It's a known sore spot, unfortunately
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06:33 TimToady bad net weather today...
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07:26 Fuad Hi, folks.
07:28 sorear Heya Fuad.
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07:35 moritz \o
07:35 phenny moritz: 24 Nov 23:55Z <FROGGS_> ask moritz if he can please look at https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commits/throw_unrecognized_metachar and https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/90
07:40 moritz FROGGS__: if the branch works, I'm fine with merging (I'm having trouble building NQP right now :( )
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08:17 grondilu rn: die "was expecting HOSTNAME" unless %*ENV<HOSTNAME> :exists
08:17 p6eval niecza v22-36-g19fa03a: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: was expecting HOSTNAME␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤  at /tmp/8pKfcfiLJQ line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting…
08:17 p6eval ..rakudo 50be5d: OUTPUT«was expecting HOSTNAME␤  in block  at /tmp/7I_c_99q2L:1␤␤»
08:18 dalek nqp: bc22f6b | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Grammar.nqp:
08:18 dalek nqp: throwing warning from method to support typed exceptions
08:18 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/bc22f6bae3
08:19 dalek rakudo/nom: 784cb73 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
08:19 dalek rakudo/nom: throwing typed exception for unrecognized metacharacters in regexes
08:19 dalek rakudo/nom:
08:19 dalek rakudo/nom: bumps NQP revision
08:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/784cb73856
08:22 moritz FROGGS__++
08:38 dalek roast: fcc3f59 | moritz++ | S05-metasyntax/unknown.t:
08:38 dalek roast: robuster tests for RT #77110, #77386
08:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fcc3f59453
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09:08 moritz std: / /
09:08 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Null regex not allowed at /tmp/YisX7SNB99 line 1:�------> [32m/ /[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
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09:26 dalek nqp: c0ddc72 | moritz++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Grammar.nqp:
09:26 dalek nqp: add an indirection for "null pattern not allowed" errors
09:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c0ddc72b11
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09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: e6e1585 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: typed exception for "Null regex not allowed"
09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e6e1585a0d
09:28 FROGGS__ hmmm, I got an error message when trying to do .throw_unrecognized_metachar, I had to prepend 'self'
09:29 moritz .foo defaults to $_
09:29 moritz $.foo calls the method on self
09:29 moritz FROGGS: oh, I see what you mean. The difference is that I call it as a grammar rule directly, not inside a {} block
09:30 FROGGS ahh, true
09:36 sorear \o/ niecza just built from clean and passed internal tests
09:36 sorear time to commit the new makefile &c
09:37 FROGGS sorear++
09:37 moritz \o/
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09:43 dalek niecza: 9c2a362 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
09:43 dalek niecza: Finish bootstrapping of bootstrap changes
09:43 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9c2a362516
09:45 sorear tomorrow: some more polish.  precompile system modules, add "make install" and "make boot-from-installed", steal the csharp.exe line editor (which sadly is neither readline nor editline) for the Niecza REPL
09:45 sorear get the Niecza REPL working again
09:45 sorear monday: v24!
09:46 sorear 2 years since the inital announcement D:
09:46 moritz wow
09:47 moritz how time flies, and all that
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10:03 moritz sorear: with parallel make, it fails with
10:03 moritz NIECZA_KEEP_IL=1 mono boot/run/Niecza.exe --obj-dir run -I src -C GetOptLong
10:03 moritz Unhandled exception: System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'NieczaGrammar.6fc92cec-63fa-4e8b-84cb-eafc7d123c95'.
10:03 moritz serial make works
10:12 sorear -jwhat?
10:12 moritz -j4
10:12 * sorear tries a fix
10:15 dalek niecza: 4eaf916 | sorear++ | Makefile:
10:15 dalek niecza: Dependency generation fix
10:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4eaf91601d
10:15 sorear -j2 succeeded with that
10:16 * moritz tries again
10:18 moritz speaking of which
10:19 moritz is there any literature on how to design a build system?
10:19 moritz I mean, tool indepent
10:19 moritz *independent
10:19 moritz just like there's language-agnostic literature on software construction
10:21 moritz sorear: build succeeded with make -j4
10:21 sorear I am not aware of any, but I haven't looked very well
10:21 sorear yay \o/
10:24 sorear coming month: exploration for nativecall and C runtime
10:24 moritz WANT
10:28 sorear but for now, I think sleep would be prudent
10:28 sorear &
10:28 moritz good night, sleep of parallel builds and C runtime
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10:43 FROGGS wow, having nativecall in niecza too would be awesome
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12:03 dalek roast: 49868a5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
12:03 dalek roast: RT #77118, test for obsolete use of diamond operator
12:03 dalek roast:
12:03 dalek roast: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77118
12:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/49868a5291
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13:07 azawawi star: say "Hello #perl6!";
13:07 p6eval star 2012.10: OUTPUT«Hello #perl6!␤»
13:08 moritz \o
13:11 azawawi
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13:19 felher Is "TEST_JOBS=8 make spectest" in Rakudo supposed to give me a "Result: PASSED"? Because I get http://bpaste.net/show/60263/
13:20 moritz felher: did you build with libicu?
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13:23 felher moritz: I think so. I didn't specify anything about libicu though. How do I check?
13:23 moritz $ ./install/bin/parrot_config has_icu
13:23 moritz 1
13:24 felher moritz: yep, i get a 1, too :)
13:24 moritz weird
13:24 moritz cause I have ICU too, and all tests pass here
13:25 moritz felher: what's the revision of your t/spec checkout?
13:26 felher moritz: top commit: 49868a5291088819db1e3a0f401b2e7c7523f97e (from today)
13:27 moritz hm, so it's not stuck
13:28 felher moritz: right
13:28 felher moritz: well, i'll do a fresh checkout of Rakudo and try again :)
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15:16 felher Would someone be so kind as to review, and maybe even apply, a patch about letting Rakudo handle tabs in heredocs? This patch has some problems. One is that it always counts tabs as 8 spaces (according to spec, it should be $?TABSTOP // 8, but I didn't know how to do that, since $?TABSTOP doesn't seem to exist there). The other is that there might already be a function that counts the number of a particular
15:16 felher character in a string, which should be used instead of the while loop.
15:16 felher patch : https://gist.github.com/4143705/e2a5a9d41e1cbff9f6ee94c43172d9a3a0677391
15:17 felher This patch doesn't introduce any new spectest failures on my machine.
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15:36 moritz felher: I believe the patch is not correct
15:36 felher moritz: how so?
15:36 moritz felher: if you have two blanks followed by a tab, that should count as an indentation of 8 spaces, not 10
15:38 felher moritz: if this is the case, then the patch is incorrect, yes. I guess i have misunderstood "Hard tabs will be assumed to be ($?TABSTOP // 8) spaces, but as long as tabs and spaces are used consistently that doesn't matter." from the specs, then?
15:39 moritz felher: a tab doesn't mean $?TABSTOP spaces, but alignment to the next multiple of $?TABSTOP
15:42 felher moritz: well, I know that this is the case in editors and such. I misunderstood the spec then, because i though the above sentence states otherwise. My bad :)
15:42 felher moritz: but thanks for the clarification :)
15:42 moritz felher: I guess the spec isn't very forthcoming about it
15:43 moritz felher: the idea is simply that the parser should see the indention the same as the terminal or text editor
15:44 felher moritz: okay. I agree :)
15:46 dalek specs: 562cc05 | moritz++ | S02-bits.pod:
15:46 dalek specs: [S02] clarify tabstop semantics
15:46 dalek specs:
15:46 dalek specs: in accordance to how most consoles and text editors interpret them.
15:46 dalek specs: felher++
15:46 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/562cc05409
15:46 felher moritz: thanks :)
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16:55 dalek roast: e87efa1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
16:55 dalek roast: RT #76742, added test for 'does with type object'
16:55 dalek roast:
16:55 dalek roast: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=76742
16:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e87efa1901
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17:53 dalek roast: 47eec67 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
17:53 dalek roast: RT #76956, linked ticket (placeholder in mainline)
17:53 dalek roast:
17:53 dalek roast: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=76956
17:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/47eec67fb7
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18:22 dalek perl6-bench: 6347060 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: Fix missed change in previous refactor of automatic tag extraction
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/6347060ea9
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: 7b0b37f | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | components.json:
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: 'make realclean' before 'make' when building niecza
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/7b0b37fc8f
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: ce24bc6 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | timeall:
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: Don't override niecza dir when timing it
18:22 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/ce24bc6bb5
18:25 japhb phenny, tell sorear This micro-benchmark is particularly slow on Niecza:  my $s = ""; for (1 .. 100000) { $s ~= "x" }
18:25 phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
18:25 japhb (Yes, I know the parens are unnecessary there.  As with several of the benchmarks in perl6-bench, they exist to try to minimize the Hamming distance from the Perl 5 version.)
18:26 japhb Actually, I guess that's Levenshtein distance.  :-)
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18:44 popl Leven*shteen*!
18:44 popl ;)
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19:14 sorear good * #perl6
19:14 phenny sorear: 18:25Z <japhb> tell sorear This micro-benchmark is particularly slow on Niecza:  my $s = ""; for (1 .. 100000) { $s ~= "x" }
19:44 grondilu what's the syntax already for named unicode characters?
19:46 grondilu like if I want to display the 'BLACK STAR' one?
19:53 sorear n: say "\c[BLACK STAR]"
19:53 p6eval niecza v22-37-g9c2a362: OUTPUT«★␤»
19:55 grondilu sorear: thanks
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19:57 FROGGS nr: say "\c[65]"
19:57 p6eval rakudo e6e158, niecza v22-37-g9c2a362: OUTPUT«A␤»
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20:19 grondilu in S32/Temporal, ".truncated-to" is mentionned but in rakudo it seems to be ".truncate"
20:19 grondilu rn: say now.truncate: :day;
20:20 p6eval niecza v22-37-g9c2a362: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method truncate in type Instant␤  at /tmp/WEFl4eCcMj line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4212 (module-CORE @ 578) ␤  at…
20:20 p6eval ..rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«1353874833␤»
20:20 grondilu n: say now.truncated-to: :day;
20:20 p6eval niecza v22-37-g9c2a362: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method truncated-to in type Instant␤  at /tmp/cNRhmvvcB5 line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4212 (module-CORE @ 578) ␤…
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20:35 moritz r: say DateTime.now.truncated-to(:day).Instant
20:35 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Instant:1353805235␤»
20:35 moritz r: say DateTime.now.truncated-to(:day)
20:35 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«DateTime.new(year => 2012, month => 11, day => 25, hour => 0, minute => 0, second => 0, timezone => $*TZ)␤»
20:39 grondilu r: say .WHAT for now, DateTime.now;
20:39 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Instant()␤DateTime()␤»
20:39 grondilu ok
20:48 dalek niecza: e67f09f | sorear++ | src/niecza:
20:48 dalek niecza: Hopefully fix REPL startup crash
20:48 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e67f09fd35
21:12 felher Hm, why doesn't the following die due to type errors?
21:12 felher r: my (Str $a, Str $b) = "blar", 3
21:12 p6eval rakudo e6e158:  ( no output )
21:12 tadzik r: my Str $a = 3
21:12 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'Str' but got 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/_TXQVQdWz6:1␤␤»
21:12 tadzik r: my (Str $a, Str $b) = ("blar", 3)
21:12 p6eval rakudo e6e158:  ( no output )
21:12 tadzik r: my (Str $a, Str $b) = "blar", 3; say $b.perl
21:12 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«3␤»
21:13 tadzik ok, dunno :)
21:13 FROGGS r: my (Str $a, Str $b) = "blar", 3; say $b.WHAT
21:13 felher :)
21:13 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
21:13 FROGGS hmmm
21:13 tadzik yeah, it lies
21:13 tadzik it probably loses type checks if you declare stuff massively;
21:13 tadzik r: my (Str $a, Str $b); $a = 5; say $a.WHAT
21:13 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
21:13 tadzik r: my (Str $a); $a = 5; say $a.WHAT
21:14 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
21:14 tadzik r: my Str $a; $a = 5; say $a.WHAT
21:14 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'Str' but got 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/PkQusTacHb:1␤␤»
21:14 tadzik r: use Test; eval_dies_ok 'my (Str $a); $a = 5';
21:14 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤»
21:14 tadzik there, a testcase :)
21:20 felher I will submit a test and submit a rakudo bug tomorrow :)  Now I really need to get $work done and then go to sleep :)
21:20 felher good night, #perl6 :)
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21:54 ggoebel niecza revival, parrot green threads coming to nqp and rakudo, steady rakudo improvements... it must be Christmas again :-)
21:57 sorear o/
21:57 japhb o/
21:59 sorear japhb: is your benchmark intended to motivate me to add ropes? :D
21:59 Kharec joined #perl6
22:00 japhb sorear, well that would certainly be awesome, but no, it's just surprisingly out of whack with the niecza's performance on all the other benchmarks.  I figured there might be some "obvious in retrospect" problem there.
22:01 japhb Especially since I added that benchmark because *rakudo* had gotten a bad rap for its performance doing that.
22:02 japhb (v22 niecza was taking 22x as long as 2012.11 rakudo, even after subtracting startup time)
22:02 sorear oh huh
22:03 sorear japhb: is the behavior much different if you use a counting loop rather than a range loop?
22:04 japhb sorear, I'll check
22:04 sorear range loops are known to be silly slow in niecza
22:06 japhb sorear, well, a lot of the other benchmarks use range loops as well, and they don't display the problem to the degree this one does.
22:09 dalek perl6-roast-data: c4033a5 | coke++ | / (4 files):
22:09 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:09 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/c4033a55fc
22:11 japhb OK, changing 'for (1 .. 100000)' to 'my $i = 0; while ++$i <= 100000' changed the total run time from 68.443s to 55.366s (startup time is around 1.7-1.75 seconds on this machine)
22:11 japhb Meanwhile, rakudo does the while version in 6.894 s
22:12 tadzik which benchmark is that?
22:12 japhb (rakudo 2012.11's startup time is about .74 seconds)
22:12 japhb The concat benchmark I mentioned to sorear earlier; based on harbud3's comments on reddit
22:15 japhb tadzik, see https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/blob/master/timeall#L221
22:23 japhb d'oh! hold on, need to correct the while times for niecza above; had the wrong (slower) mono in path
22:24 [Coke]_ sorear: today, for the first time in a while, niecza failed 3352 tests.
22:25 [Coke] looks like it was on commit 4eaf916
22:26 sorear japhb: clearly there is room for optimization
22:27 sorear [Coke]: I'll be running some spectests later
22:27 [Coke] hokay.
22:28 japhb sorear, quite.  Like I said, this one was just way out of normal for the niecza's performance profile, so figured it was worth mentioning.
22:28 japhb Huh.  My supposedly faster mono build is somewhat *slower*.  I wonder what's up with that?
22:28 sorear japhb: what is the profile like these days? :D
22:30 benabik joined #perl6
22:30 japhb sorear, In several ov the micro-benchmarks it was ~10% slower than Rakudo; in a few more, 1.6-3.7x slower, and then a couple up to 9x slower.  And then this one, at 22x.
22:30 japhb Mind you, those are all micro-benchmarks.
22:31 japhb In the one application benchmark I have so far, it's ~ 10x *faster* than Rakudo.
22:32 japhb So that leaves the question of what more I need to measure in the micro-benchmarks to capture why niecza is running away with the prize in the app benchmark.
22:33 japhb FWIW, 2012.11 was a "performance jump" release for Rakudo.  In several benchmarks it is now faster than all other rakudo and niecza releases in ~14 months.
22:34 sorear :(
22:34 japhb Rakudo's big slowdown right now in the microbenchmarks is while loops, which have been a problem for quite some time.
22:35 sorear where am I going to get a sense of purpose if we lose the speed edge?
22:36 japhb I suspect that since my current suite of micro-benchmarks is heavy on for-range, speeding up that pairing would win you back the crown in several, just because the slowdown of the for-range is swamping the speedup of the block's operation.
22:37 flussence before I ask a stupid question, is niecza git expected to be in a usable state right now?
22:39 flussence oh, I was running it wrong. never mind
22:39 leont joined #perl6
22:43 sorear flussence: it wasn't yesterday but it is now
22:43 flussence yeah, I had a shell alias that was doing "mono-sgen Niecza.exe" and that makes it freak out. Not sure why I had that there :)
22:46 dedis joined #perl6
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23:08 gootle joined #perl6
23:11 dalek niecza: 64f16b5 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
23:11 dalek niecza: Support multiple object directories
23:11 dalek niecza:
23:11 dalek niecza: It is now possible to have a per-user object cache and still share
23:11 dalek niecza: precompilations of the setting and any other syste-wide installed
23:11 dalek niecza: modules.
23:11 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/64f16b59e5
23:50 [Coke] n: my $r;
23:50 p6eval niecza v22-39-ge67f09f: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $r is declared but not used at /tmp/P9kGc85jpr line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$r;[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
23:50 [Coke] n: my $r; #ok
23:50 p6eval niecza v22-39-ge67f09f: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $r is declared but not used at /tmp/H4RM2C2Jga line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$r; #ok[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
23:51 [Coke] n: my $r #ok;
23:51 p6eval niecza v22-39-ge67f09f: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $r is declared but not used at /tmp/U7uyre1HMi line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$r #ok;[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
23:51 [Coke] how to disable that warning?
23:51 flussence n: my $r #ok not used
23:51 p6eval niecza v22-39-ge67f09f: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $r is declared but not used at /tmp/AkOHgON9_l line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$r #ok not used[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
23:51 flussence hm.
23:51 flussence std: my $r
23:51 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
23:52 flussence I dunno, it used to be a magic comment string...
23:53 [Coke] n: my $r #OK no used
23:53 p6eval niecza v22-39-ge67f09f: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $r is declared but not used at /tmp/E1wmkYQswO line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$r #OK no used[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
23:53 [Coke] n: my $r #OK not used
23:53 p6eval niecza v22-39-ge67f09f:  ( no output )
23:53 [Coke] flussence++
23:57 dalek roast: 5a39d8b | coke++ | integration/weird-errors.t:
23:57 dalek roast: avoid unused declaration warning.
23:57 dalek roast:
23:57 dalek roast: (now passes on niecza)
23:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5a39d8b480

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