IRC log for #perl6, 2012-11-26

Time	Nick	Message
00:10	[Coke]	sorear: some references to $*compiler.verbose which doesn't exist.
00:11	sorear	what is the context of that noun phrase?
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00:14	[Coke]	sorear: https://gist.github.com/4145972
00:15	[Coke]	I imagine that's several of the new failures.
00:19	[Coke]	yes, definitely is a lot of the new failures.
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00:37	dalek	niecza: f4918b8 \| sorear++ \| / (5 files):
00:37	dalek	niecza: Lift the (X11 license) line editor from csharp.exe. it's not readline but it's something. fixes #148
00:37	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f4918b8705
00:39	sorear	[Coke]: oh dear, it would seem "eval" is completely busted
00:40	sorear	#1 priority
00:43	[Coke]	sorear__
00:44	[Coke]	sorear__
00:44	[Coke]	sorear++ #eek!
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01:20	dalek	niecza: dbbc6c7 \| sorear++ \| lib/Kernel.cs:
01:20	dalek	niecza: Improve dynamic variable handling to hopefully fix eval, Coke++
01:20	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dbbc6c720e
01:20	* sorear	runs a spectest
01:32	colomon	sorear++
01:36	sorear	[Coke]: 12 failing files now
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01:38	[Coke]	you have a list you gist?
01:39	sorear	https://gist.github.com/4146151
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01:46	[Coke]	sorear: how to clear niecza's precompiled cache?
01:47	sorear	rm -r ~/.local/share/NieczaModuleCache
01:48	sorear	it ought to be a lot better about handling stale files now though
01:50	dalek	niecza: 7984f8d \| sorear++ \| Makefile:
01:50	dalek	niecza: Add an install target
01:50	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7984f8d4e0
01:53	[Coke]	You got a todo pass on t/spec/integration/weird-errors.t # 3 - still fails here.
01:56	[Coke]	(I'm getting different results on a lot of those. hurm.)
01:56	[Coke]	but tomorrow's run will be muuuch better. sorear++
01:57	sorear	the is_run stuff is pretty dicey, especially if you don't have a usable glib# installed :/
01:59	dalek	niecza: 0247fe5 \| sorear++ \| Makefile:
01:59	dalek	niecza: Add boot-from-installed for bonsaikitten
01:59	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0247fe57d9
01:59	sorear	yay, I'
02:00	sorear	yay, I've now finished everything I said I'd do today
02:00	diakopter	++
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02:00	[Coke]	sorear++
02:03	japhb	sorear, by 6 PM no less, good on ya!
02:14	sorear	Mac users: What IDE do you use/would you recommend for C?
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02:47	Tene	If I were on a mac, I'd use vim. I doubt answering the right question, though.
02:48	* benabik	uses Vim.
02:48	benabik	Xcode is actually pretty decent.
03:33	dalek	niecza: b04ce0c \| sorear++ \| docs/announce.v24:
03:33	dalek	niecza: Draft v24 announce
03:33	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b04ce0ce32
03:34	sorear	benabik: cool, I'll try that
04:22	japhb	sorear, did v23 just not happen? Or is v24 an accidental double-bump?
04:24	sorear	japhb: there was no v23
04:24	benabik	We call it "the version that shall not be numbered".
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04:51	japhb	sorear, OK, roger that.
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: 0f05d4c \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| bench:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: Rename some uses of 'tag' in extract command to 'rev' where that is the real semantic meaning, in preparation for being able to extract arbitrary rev specs
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/0f05d4c3fd
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: 0cfc0e5 \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| bench:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: Make sure explode-components returns strings and not path objects for checkout names
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/0cfc0e553f
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: 376370b \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| bench:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: s:g/'.IO.d'/.path.d/
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/376370b9c2
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: 83a5474 \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| bench:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: Allow arbitrary revs to be extracted, as long as they can be recognized by 'git rev-parse'
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/83a5474cb5
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: a273c4c \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| components.json:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: Add build instructions for nqp in components.json
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/a273c4cc5e
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: 0dccbcc \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| analyze:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: Factor out a little boilerplate for finding the list of enabled Perls; correctly show SKIP in analysis when test does not apply to a given compiler group
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/0dccbccccb
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: d1e4438 \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| analyze:
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: Show all versions found when merging timing runs from different bench versions
05:09	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/d1e443807c
05:09	japhb	Huh. I half expected to accidentally cause dalek to kick itself.
05:10	japhb	or rather, to get itself kicked.
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06:48	dalek	perl6-bench: da28593 \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| analyze:
06:48	dalek	perl6-bench: Make compare_times resilient to all compilers failing a test
06:48	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/da28593602
06:48	dalek	perl6-bench: eb3c239 \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| timeall:
06:48	dalek	perl6-bench: Add more while tests; fix off-by-one error in while loop counters
06:48	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/eb3c239b8f
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06:57	japhb	Benchmark comparison of current NQP, Rakudo, and Niecza releases, with startup time removed: https://gist.github.com/4146931
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06:58	sorear	japhb: my first project after the release is for/range and ~ optimization
06:58	sorear	japhb: did you read the announce.v24 or just comment on its title?
06:59	japhb	skimmed it
06:59	japhb	Well, read it without all of my brain actually working, more like.
06:59	japhb	Why?
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07:00	sorear	my release procedure requires getting someone on the channel to sanitycheck the announcement
07:01	sorear	I'm also going to ask a windows person to check that the new line editor is usable on that platform
07:03	japhb	The draft announcement certainly reads OK.
07:03	* sorear	starts putting together an RC
07:03	japhb	I've not tested a build of niecza/master, but you know, I have the tools to try that easily now ...
07:04	sorear	you didn't before?
07:04	japhb	Within the benchmarking suite, I mean: ./bench extract niecza/master; ./bench build niecza/master
07:09	sorear	http://feather.perl6.nl/~sorear/niecza-24-rc.zip # I'd like a windows person to check that the line editor works before releasing
07:09	* diakopter	volunteers
07:09	* diakopter	wonders whether mono is still on this computer
07:10	diakopter	wow, Chrome really doesn't want me to download that .zip
07:13	diakopter	"niecza-24-rc.zip is not commonly downloaded and could be dangerous. Discard. (click button to display other button Keep). <click Keep>. Are you sure? Don't say we didn't warn you."
07:15	dalek	perl6-bench: da9a2dd \| (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ \| README:
07:15	dalek	perl6-bench: Bring README up to current state of bench usage
07:15	dalek	perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/da9a2dde4b
07:16	diakopter	erm
07:16	* japhb	starts a benchmarking run for niecza/master and wanders off to relax for a bit
07:16	dalek	panda: 1361fcb \| (Caleb Cushing)++ \| bootstrap.pl:
07:16	dalek	panda: better debugging and recursively creates path
07:16	dalek	panda:
07:16	dalek	panda: this fixes a problem where panda does not attempt to create the full directory
07:16	dalek	panda: structure if it does not exist (which is likely on a new install). Also
07:16	dalek	panda: provide a better error message that includes the path panda is trying to use
07:16	dalek	panda: in the event it is not writeable
07:16	dalek	panda:
07:16	dalek	panda: Signed-off-by: Caleb Cushing <xenoterracidegmail.com>
07:16	dalek	panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/1361fcbc0e
07:16	dalek	panda: f4f19b5 \| tadzik++ \| bootstrap.pl:
07:16	dalek	panda: Merge pull request #25 from xenoterracide/master
07:16	dalek	panda:
07:16	dalek	panda: fixes issue with unwritable directory
07:16	dalek	panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/f4f19b5a8c
07:17	diakopter	sorear: seems to work
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07:17	diakopter	up/down/left/arrows do what I'd expect
07:17	sorear	\o/
07:17	sorear	thanks. diakopter++
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08:36	mtymula	hello can anyone tell me how can i enter this room using my android phone?? I've downloaded client and now i need a server address and a port
08:37	moritz	server address is irc.freenode.org
08:37	mtymula	and a port?
08:37	moritz	6667 I think
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08:40	japhb	sorear, FWIW niecza/master is not very different from niecza/v22 in my benchmarks. I assume that's expected. :-)
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08:40	japhb	sleep, perchance to dream &
08:42	sorear	expected, yeah
08:42	sorear	gnight japhb
08:52	mtymula	nope
08:52	mtymula	port 6667
08:52	mtymula	is an asimov faun channel
08:52	mtymula	;)
08:55	sorear	I'm connected to irc.freenode.net port 6667
08:55	sorear	you connected to the right place
08:55	sorear	freenode's servers are named after authors
08:55	sorear	after joining asimov.freenode.net, you join #perl6
08:56	sorear	on PC clients it's usually done by typing /join #perl6
08:56	sorear	dunno about your android clienrt
08:56	sorear	the servers share channel information, so whichever server you get is good
08:56	sorear	when you connect you will be routed to a random server, for load balancing
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08:57	mtymula89	Yeah!!
08:57	mtymula89	What a fool i am:)
08:58	sorear	mtymula89: welcome
08:59	mtymula89	Hello now i will be on this irc hannel all day long:)
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09:03	mtymula89	When i write a subroutine with arbitrary numberrs of parameters there is a @name as a argument passed. What exactly does this do?
09:05	moritz	it means "bind any number of arguments to an array @name"
09:05	moritz	r: sub f(@a) { say @a.perl }; f(1, 2);
09:05	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'f' will never work with argument types (Int, Int) (line 1)␤ Expected: :(@a)␤»
09:05	moritz	r: sub f(*@a) { say @a.perl }; f(1, 2);
09:05	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤»
09:05	moritz	see the difference? :-)
09:06	mtymula89	Ok so nobody knows howmany elements of an array are there untill the sub is salled upon?
09:08	mtymula89	Yes i see it now.
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09:23	felher	Can one use 'perlbug' to submit bugs to Rakudo?
09:24	moritz	no
09:24	felher	k, thnx
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09:58	jnthn	morning o/
09:59	FROGGS_	morning
09:59	* jnthn	will has another tuit-limited week, but December should be better
10:00	sorear	morning jnthn
10:00	jnthn	o/ sorear
10:00	sorear	same situation I think
10:00	sorear	exciting times :D
10:02	jnthn	Early Decemberish I hope to be pushing some fledgling QAST => JVM stuff.
10:02	FROGGS_	jnthn: is there a spec about how the grammar works? I hit a bug in rakudo/src/Perl6/Grammar.pm and I need to capture more to make a better exception message
10:02	felher	o/
10:02	moritz	FROGGS_: extra captures are generally OK
10:03	sorear	jnthn: \o/
10:03	jnthn	FROGGS_: Well, it's a subset of normal Perl 6 grammars
10:03	sorear	jnthn: early Decemberish is also when I'm probably going to be able to start the niecza C-backend experiments too :D :D
10:04	moritz	FROGGS_: STD.pm6 is kinda standard, but if we need more stuff than STD captures, that's OK
10:04	sorear	you're always allowed to add new stuff to STD if it improves the error messages and doesn't slow us down too much
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10:06	kresike	hello all you happy perl6 people
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10:10	moritz	jnthn: do you have some time to discuss sink stuff?
10:11	jnthn	moritz: I sorta got time while @student here to exercises, but may need to go give help at any moment
10:11	jnthn	*do
10:11	moritz	jnthn: ok
10:11	moritz	r: role A { }; nqp::say nqp::does A, 'foo'
10:11	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op call: Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op say: Error while compiling op does: No registered operation handler for 'does'␤»
10:11	moritz	r: role A { }; nqp::say nqp::can A, 'foo'
10:11	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:12	moritz	that's the first problem
10:12	moritz	r: module A { }; nqp::say nqp::can A, 'foo'
10:12	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'Any'␤ in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:149␤ in block at /tmp/6cIyHASplD:1␤␤»
10:12	moritz	that's the second problem
10:12	jnthn	uh, second one is wtf
10:12	moritz	currently I emit the equivalent of .sink() if nqp::can($_, 'sink') for sink context
10:12	moritz	and those two make the whole thing blow up
10:13	jnthn	yeah, trouble is, a role's find_method always returns a punner
10:13	jnthn	Probably need to be a bit smarter on that.
10:13	jnthn	The other one is just an outright bug
10:13	moritz	where? in the code emitting, or in can?
10:14	FROGGS_	thanks you both, gtg to work, but will read logs
10:14	jnthn	I think needs a fix somewhere in RolePunning.pm or whatever it's called
10:14	jnthn	In src/Perl6/Metamodel
10:14	jnthn	We can can on the pun.
10:15	moritz	what a pun :-)
10:15	jnthn	:D
10:15	sorear	sleep &
10:15	felher	o/ sorear
10:15	jnthn	o/ sorear
10:15	huf	if you continue this much further, someone's gonna take some elephants accross the alps
10:16	jnthn	The module one is probably something throwing that should not throw but instead return a null/type object
10:19	jnthn	ok, back to teaching...
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10:49	FROGGS	back for good
11:00	moritz	sing I just want you back for gooooood sing
11:02	FROGGS	ya, lets unbutton ourselfs
11:03	* FROGGS	.oO( imagines a bunch of geeks with bare nipples... )
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11:18	jnthn	FROGGS: I...don't think I'm going to adopt that style while presenting at Perl confs :P
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11:36	FROGGS	well, the ppl would keep you in mind though
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12:53	jnthn	FROGGS: I try to do that by giving good talks :P
12:54	jnthn	...but it's good to have a backup plan :P
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13:02	mtymuls	.
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13:41	* [Coke]	yawns.
13:42	mtymuls	:P
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13:57	PerlJam	good cyber-monday everybody!
13:58	dalek	nqp/x_backslash: e9ab312 \| (Tobias Leich)++ \| src/ (2 files):
13:58	dalek	nqp/x_backslash: add indirection for 'Unrecognized backslash sequence'
13:58	dalek	nqp/x_backslash: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e9ab3125e8
14:05	FROGGS	r: "\u"
14:05	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'sorry' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::QGrammar+{qq}+{stop}'␤»
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14:56	dalek	nqp/gh67-threads: 756d06b \| rurban++ \| / (2 files):
14:56	dalek	nqp/gh67-threads: add t/nqp/67-threads.t, fix .gitignore for /nqp
14:56	dalek	nqp/gh67-threads: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/756d06bd90
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15:07	[Coke]	FROGG's exception there looks notgood.
15:09	FROGGS	[Coke]: already fixed (pull request)
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15:13	rindolf	FROGGS: hi.
15:13	[Coke]	FROGGS++
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15:17	FROGGS	hi rindolf
15:17	FROGGS	thanks [Coke]
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15:23	rindolf	FROGGS: what's up?
15:23	rindolf	FROGGS: you might be interested to know that I worked on PySolFC the other day.
15:24	rindolf	Well, yesterday actually.
15:25	FROGGS	hi, $work and a bit bug hunting / error message improving...
15:26	FROGGS	rindolf: this PySolFC looks quiet nice, what did you do?
15:29	skids	Wait, there's $work for solitaire? I must have missed that booth at the job fair!
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15:34	japhb	skids: Wouldn't that be Zynga? Although I guess that would be "social solitaire" ...
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15:47	rindolf	FROGGS: I made sure every module can be loaded (or "import"ed in Python-speak) separately.
15:48	FROGGS	ahh, cool
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15:56	rindolf	skids: I wasn't using "work" in the exact literal meaning.
15:56	* rindolf	clubs skids senseless with the server hosting en.wiktionary.org .
15:57	rindolf	Or the entire cluster of them.
16:00	sergot	hi o/ !
16:01	FROGGS	hi sergot
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16:11	rjbs-	eeLag is my enemy.
16:11	rjbs-	Evidenced, for example, in how this message happened in the wrong channel. :-/
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16:12	moritz	rjbs++ # autopun
16:13	rurban	FROGGS: #ifdef enum_class_Proxy is wrong. It is a enum not a preprocessor define
16:14	rurban	I'm fixing it in the branch gh67-threads
16:16	FROGGS	rurban: k, thank you
16:17	rurban	For now no problem, because it will always be false. But I try to add proper threads support to nqp
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16:29	* [Coke]	finds http://rdstar.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/the-rakudo-codebase-visualized-partially/ , which appears to have no author.
16:32	[Coke]	(and isn't on planet sixperl)
16:33	FROGGS	well, when seeing the snd link I'd say lue posted it
16:34		Pleiades` joined #perl6
16:38	[Coke]	danke.
16:38	[Coke]	phenny: ask lue if he wants rdstar to be added to the planet sixperl feed.
16:38	phenny	[Coke]: I'll pass that on when lue is around.
16:41	[Coke]	lue++
16:41		rurban_ joined #perl6
16:48		ryutin joined #perl6
16:51	moritz	with less than two years of age, my daughter is now a youtube consumer
16:52	moritz	she has her favorite video which she demands to see occasionally
16:52	moritz	and then she selects second-best favorite videos by pointing to the preview images
16:53	moritz	though we don't have a touchpad, and she doesn't know how to use the mouse yet, we must click for her
16:54		sftp joined #perl6
16:55		alester joined #perl6
16:56	FROGGS	moritz: ya, the mouse must be something oldschool and non-intuitive...
16:57	FROGGS	my sons, almost 3 and the other 19months can both skip through images on my android, and they always want to click on thing on my laptop ;o)
16:57	FROGGS	but the older one can now use a touchpad too, even if he is very slow with it
16:59	moritz	erm, s/touchpad/touch screen/ above
17:00	* moritz	wonders if he should cut a star release
17:01	* FROGGS	wonders if he should test all these modules, since he didnt do it for ages
17:02	[Coke]	(kids) at one point we found a trackball helpful
17:02	[Coke]	(my thumb hurts just thinking about it. :)
17:07		bluescreen10 joined #perl6
17:13		cognominal joined #perl6
17:15		rurban_ joined #perl6
17:16		fgomez joined #perl6
17:18	masak	greetings, #perl6.
17:18	japhb	Greetings, Earthling!
17:23	FROGGS	masak o/
17:23	FROGGS	see y'all at home
17:25	masak	I think https://rt.perl.org:443/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=115916 is a dupe
17:25	masak	also, does our RT instance suddenly have a port number?
17:26	moritz	\o masak
17:26	moritz	masak: in some links it has for months at least
17:26	masak	huh.
17:29	dalek	star: aa7e45c \| moritz++ \| docs/announce/2012.11:
17:29	dalek	star: announcement for 2012.11 release
17:29	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/aa7e45c61e
17:29	dalek	star: 35d12ef \| moritz++ \| / (2 files):
17:29	dalek	star: bump rakudo and nqp versions
17:29	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/35d12effe5
17:29	dalek	star: dda13ae \| moritz++ \| modules/ (11 files):
17:29	dalek	star: bump module versions
17:29	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/dda13aeb76
17:30	moritz	everybody, please review the release announcement, and fix (preferrably) or point out any mistakes/omissions
17:30	dalek	star: b9b42ec \| moritz++ \| tools/build/Makefile.in:
17:30	dalek	star: forgot a version bump (Makefile.in)
17:30	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/b9b42ecccc
17:32	masak	moritz: I reviewed the release announcement -- didn't see anything out of the ordinary. looks good.
17:32	moritz	masak: thanks
17:32	masak	"advanced macros" is a little vague, but I don't have a better suggestion.
17:32		SamuraiJack joined #perl6
17:37	moritz	masak: just advance them :-)
17:40	PerlJam	Are we doing monthly releases of R* now?
17:40	masak	making macros suck less is a prerequisite to advancing them, I think... :)
17:41		benabik joined #perl6
17:41	moritz	PerlJam: currently, yes
17:43	PerlJam	moritz: why is that? The recent feature list has been "impressive enough"?
17:45		Chillance joined #perl6
17:48	moritz	PerlJam: mostly yes (more)
17:48	moritz	PerlJam: first of all we didn't announce that we'd switch to a longer release cycle, so people expect a new release
17:49	moritz	PerlJam: secondly we have some many nice features that it would be a shame not to get them to the users quickly
17:50	moritz	hey, heredocs! Operators with custom prec and assoc
17:50	moritz	and, quite important IMHO, precompilation fixes
17:50	moritz	jnthn++
17:50	moritz	jnthn++
17:50	moritz	jnthn++
17:50	masak	indeed. jnthn++
17:51	dalek	roast: c196552 \| moritz++ \| S (5 files):
17:51	dalek	roast: rakudo autounfudges
17:51	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c196552ce3
17:52	PerlJam	I didn't realize that we hadn't announced the longer release cycle.
17:53	moritz	PerlJam: speaking just from memory, I think that only before the switch to nom did we have quarterly releases
17:53	moritz	PerlJam: and ever since monthly releases
17:53		rurban_ joined #perl6
17:55	PerlJam	weird. I guess I just had "quarterly" stuck on my brain for Star releases.
17:55	jnthn	evenin o/
17:55	PerlJam	greetings jnthn++
17:57	jnthn	oh, moritz++ is on with the Star release
17:57	jnthn	That's good; I'm pretty tight for time this week.
18:02	moritz	http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/rakudo-star-2012.11-RC0.tar.gz # release candidate
18:07		domidumont joined #perl6
18:07	jnthn	moritz: Maybe worth mentioning quote adverbs too?
18:08	jnthn	And perhaps explicitly call out the pre-compilation fixes...
18:09	jnthn	need to go buy some noms...will commit those when back if you don't beat me to it...
18:10		domidumont1 joined #perl6
18:14	dalek	star: 3a2846f \| moritz++ \| tools/star/release-guide.pod:
18:14	dalek	star: [release guide] add list of previous releases
18:14	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/3a2846fb91
18:16	moritz	jnthn: beat you to it :-)
18:16	dalek	star: d4e9c5d \| moritz++ \| docs/announce/2012.11:
18:16	dalek	star: [announce] mention quote adverbs and precompilation fixes
18:16	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/d4e9c5def5
18:20	moritz	I'll wait with the R* release until tomorrow; maybe soembody has more feedback until then
18:21	moritz	if not, I'll make a release code-identical to the RC0, but with updated release annoucement
18:23	moritz	phenny: tell FROGGS if you want to do more typed exception in nqp, you can do them directly in master; they are low risk, and don't break rakudo
18:23	phenny	moritz: I'll pass that on when FROGGS is around.
18:24	moritz	now if only I could build nqp again on my laptop...
18:32	dalek	perl6-roast-data: 1da7959 \| coke++ \| / (3 files):
18:32	dalek	perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:32	dalek	perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/1da795971e
18:32	[Coke]	sorear++ - niecza back down to 15 failures.
18:33		popl joined #perl6
18:35		thou joined #perl6
18:36		fgomez joined #perl6
18:38		rurban_ joined #perl6
18:42	masak	moritz++ # cutting R*
18:43	* moritz	is a bit surprised by panda commit 1361fcbc0e9d298b38f80c3fb1068f034205e532 -- does it work to use a module in bootstrap.pl? if yes, why?
18:44	moritz	it does not
18:45	moritz	===SORRY!===
18:45	moritz	Could not find Shell::Command in any of: ...
18:46	dalek	panda: a5f2ff8 \| moritz++ \| bootstrap.pl:
18:46	dalek	panda: unbreak bootstrap.pl
18:46	dalek	panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/a5f2ff8fd1
18:47	* moritz	ponders how to best get panda to use %*CUSTOM_LIB
18:49	moritz	is there a cross-make compatible way to execute a command and put the result in a variable?
18:50	moritz	given what I know about the portability of Makefiles, I guess the answer is "no"
18:51	[Coke]	I would probably run the command and put the output in a file as a stopgap.
18:53	moritz	this feels more like (not so) expressive dance than programming
18:55		Targen joined #perl6
18:57	japhb	moritz, writing portable makefiles will often cause one to express oneself, though "dance" is not how I would tend to describe that expression. ;-)
18:57		domidumont joined #perl6
18:57	moritz	.oO( expressive non-dancing )
18:57	moritz	r: say @*INC.join(' ')
18:57	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib /home/p6eval/.perl6/2012.11-4-ge6e1585/lib /home/p6eva…
18:58		benabik joined #perl6
18:59		prammer joined #perl6
18:59	japhb	Is it just me, or does p6eval seem to cut output to a shorter length than the IRC server normally would?
18:59	moritz	yes, it has its own cutoff
18:59	japhb	It seems too conservative.
19:00		FROGGS joined #perl6
19:00	masak	I can't think of a case where I felt it was too short.
19:00	japhb	Huh. I feel that rather often. :-/
19:00	FROGGS	talking about sex?
19:00	phenny	FROGGS: 18:23Z <moritz> tell FROGGS if you want to do more typed exception in nqp, you can do them directly in master; they are low risk, and don't break rakudo
19:00	* FROGGS	will read logs now
19:01	FROGGS	moritz: k, will do
19:01	masak	the things that hit the cutoffs tend to be errors/exceptions, and they tend to be rather void of meaning after line 1.
19:01	masak	I say that as someone who strips a lot of useless stacktraces in bug reports. :)
19:01	japhb	masak, I see it often when someone is trying to get a method list from some class, or in this case see all of @*INC.
19:02	japhb	Oh, I can definitely understand the desire to avoid a mess.
19:02	moritz	well, the full method list from a class is often too long for IRC anyway :-)
19:02	japhb	Maybe treat the cutoff for STDERR and STDOUT distinctly?
19:02	moritz	ETOOMUCHEFFORT
19:02	FROGGS	masak: 443 is the default port for https/ssl connections
19:02	japhb	heh
19:02	masak	FROGGS: ah.
19:02		benabik joined #perl6
19:02	masak	I'd rather p6eval spam the channel less.
19:03	moritz	r: say Int.^methods(:all).elems
19:03	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«217␤»
19:03	masak	if someone wants a long listing of stuff, they can use their local terminal window, not #perl6 :)
19:03	japhb	I figured masak new that and was just commenting on the redundant URL formatting ...
19:03	japhb	er knew
19:03	* moritz	thought so too
19:03	masak	no, I just suddenly noticed the port in the URL.
19:03		gfldex joined #perl6
19:04	japhb	moritz, granted, that ^methods(:all) is going to be long. But I often see ^methods(:local) cut off when it doesn't need to be.
19:04	masak	I know very little of ports. perhaps I knew at some point that 443 means https/ssl, but I definitely didn't remember.
19:04	masak	r" say Int.^methods(:local)
19:05	masak	r: say Int.^methods(:local)>>.name
19:05	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Int Num Rat FatRat abs Bridge chr sqrt base expmod is-prime floor round ceiling sign conj rand sin asin cos acos tan atan atan2 sec asec cosec acosec cotan acotan sinh asinh cosh acosh tanh atanh sech asech cosech acosech cotanh acotanh unpolar cis Complex log exp …
19:05	japhb	But in any case, no worries. Does the cutoff also apply to PM with p6eval, or just channel responses?
19:05	moritz	also pm
19:05	japhb	Okie-doke.
19:06	moritz	there's not much engineering in p6eval, except the bare minimum needed to provide the functionality we need here
19:08	tadzik	bah, so I _did_ break panda bootstrap. Neh
19:08		brrt joined #perl6
19:09	moritz	tadzik: never mind, I fixed it
19:09	tadzik	yeah, seen it. moritz++
19:09	tadzik	I need vacation :)
19:10	* masak	.oO( "vacation" has to do with looking at cows, right? )
19:11	masak	just like a "vacant look" has to do with looking like a cow.
19:11	masak	:P
19:11	FROGGS	hehe
19:12		rindolf joined #perl6
19:15	masak	(shamelessly plagiarized from, I think, MJD's twitter feed)
19:16	FROGGS	thats fine, there is not much left to invent in the year 2012
19:17	FROGGS	moritz: did you had a chance to look at my pull request? https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/91
19:18		Su-Shee joined #perl6
19:19	FROGGS	don't wanna annoy you though :/
19:19	masak	FROGGS: I used to think that was the case; however, with each year that passes, I realize how the whole CS and PL thing is still in its infancy, or at least young adolescence.
19:20	skids	.oO(me decides not to ponder other meanings of "I need vacation.", especially with cows in the picture.)
19:21	* masak	.oO( cow tipping )
19:26	masak	<popl> Levenshteen!
19:26	masak	popl: Lovenshteen! :P
19:29		rurban_ joined #perl6
19:30	FROGGS	masak: for a non-native-english-reader, whats the CS and PL thing?
19:31	FROGGS	moritz: wouldnt it make sense to drop 'make test' or mention the other two option in the first step? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/215400
19:31	masak	FROGGS: "Computer Science", and "Programming Language"
19:31	FROGGS	ahh
19:32	FROGGS	ya, tru
19:33	masak	...which is part of why I like being involved with Perl 6.
19:34	FROGGS	and I am a community supporting rules loving german guy
19:34	FROGGS	and Perl6 is pretty awesome
19:35	* masak	.oO( "[community supporting rules] loving" or "[community supporting], [rules loving]"? ) :P
19:41	FROGGS	hehe
19:41	tadzik	parsing people is hard
19:41	tadzik	I once signed up for "Advanced Programming in C++"
19:41	tadzik	I expected (Advanced Programming) in C++
19:41	tadzik	got Advanced (Programming in C++)
19:42	moritz	FROGGS: the current factoring of the messages is not bad because it doesn't flood the user with information
19:43	FROGGS	moritz: alright
19:49	dalek	panda: 5ae49a8 \| tadzik++ \| / (2 files):
19:49	dalek	panda: Fix installing random files from lib/
19:49	dalek	panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/5ae49a81a6
19:49	dalek	panda: 6b9161c \| tadzik++ \| testmodules/compiled__module/blib/lib/baz.js:
19:49	dalek	panda: Add forgotten file for tests
19:49	dalek	panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/6b9161c36d
19:49	dalek	panda: 4c73acb \| tadzik++ \| / (3 files):
19:49	dalek	panda: Make Panda::Builder copy over all the files it doesn't recognize
19:49	dalek	panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/4c73acb021
19:49	tadzik	phenny: tell azawawi I told panda to install random files from lib as well :) Hope this suits you
19:49	phenny	tadzik: I'll pass that on when azawawi is around.
19:49	tadzik	phenny: thanks
19:51		brrt left #perl6
19:51		hash_table joined #perl6
19:52		cognominal joined #perl6
19:54	FROGGS	moritz: rakudo-test and rakudo-spectest passes, but should modules-test work?
19:54	sorear	good * #perl6
19:55	moritz	FROGGS: it should, but I don't think it did in the last few releases
19:55	FROGGS	open3: exec of ... failed at /usr/share/perl/5.14/TAP/Parser/Iterator/Process.pm line 168.
19:55		snarkyboojum_ joined #perl6
19:56		rjbs joined #perl6
19:56		ashleyde1 joined #perl6
19:56		mathw_ joined #perl6
19:56	moritz	t/custom-headers-and-content.t .. Cannot call 'match'; none of these signatures match:
19:56	moritz	:(Cool:D : $target, *%adverbs)
19:56	moritz	while testing perl6-lwp-simple
19:57		pmichaud joined #perl6
19:57		clkao__ joined #perl6
19:57	moritz	Bailador fails t/05-post-content.t
19:58	tadzik	oh noes
19:58	tadzik	I merged 2 pull requests today trusting them to be good
19:58	tadzik	erm, merged 3
19:59		kurahaupo joined #perl6
19:59	tadzik	and looks like 2 of them broke stuff
20:00		jaldhar joined #perl6
20:00	FROGGS	tadzik: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/215403
20:01		integral joined #perl6
20:02		atrodo_ joined #perl6
20:03		atrodo_ joined #perl6
20:03	masak	netsplits are useful for remembering who's lurking on the channel.
20:04		japhb_ joined #perl6
20:04	tadzik	hm
20:04	tadzik	I'm not sure what that is :)
20:04		atrodo joined #perl6
20:05	moritz	FROGGS: might be a brokenness of the test harness
20:05	moritz	I'm pretty sure it's supposed to execute perl6 $testfile, not just $testfile
20:06	FROGGS	ohh, hold
20:06	FROGGS	on
20:06	moritz	jsonrpc fails t/server.t
20:06	FROGGS	I didnt make install -.-
20:07	moritz	and I failed at reading the error message
20:07	FROGGS	;o)
20:07		sjohnson joined #perl6
20:11		takesako joined #perl6
20:14	tadzik	hrm. I wonder, what to do to LWP::Simple to marry it with MuEvent
20:14	tadzik	I need to somehow say it "you know, when you call recv(), you should basically set a MuEvent handler. That'd be cool"
20:14	tadzik	without rewriting half of it
20:14	dalek	ufo: 0755ad0 \| moritz++ \| bin/ufo:
20:14	dalek	ufo: install to any(%*CUSTOM_LIB<site home>)
20:14	dalek	ufo:
20:14	dalek	ufo: This takes the easy and portable route by writing the prefix into
20:14	dalek	ufo: the Makefile, at the expense of having to re-run ufo whenever that
20:14	dalek	ufo: prefix changes -- which is quite often in the case of the home lib.
20:14	dalek	ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/0755ad0ddb
20:15	moritz	masak: I hope you're OK with that change; it's the least insane solution I could find :-)
20:15	tadzik	being able to convince it to use my kind of IO::Socket, I could maybe preempt it somehow inside those read()s
20:15	tadzik	I could maybe emulate this sort of behaviour using gather-take
20:16	tadzik	so many "I could maybe"
20:20	masak	moritz: on phone; will look later.
20:20	moritz	masak: ok, no hurry
20:21	FROGGS	k, most of the module-tests are passing, the failing ones you already posted have </yoda>
20:21	moritz	FROGGS: it's your comedy day, isn't it? :-)
20:22	FROGGS	I'm just in a good mood ;o)
20:22	FROGGS	sitting in the dark with laptop and my almost sleeping kid...
20:23	moritz	that's quite a feeling, I know :-)
20:24	moritz	$daugher has been sleeping for an hour
20:24	FROGGS	ya, I can be lucky most days, both are sleeping within 10 minutes usually
20:25	FROGGS	think he is drifting away now...
20:25	FROGGS	so, shhhhhh
20:25	FROGGS	:o)
20:26	* moritz	hopes FROGGS' IRC client doesn't make a sound for each incoming line :-)
20:26	FROGGS	just dont use the BELL ascii char
20:26	masak	r: say "\b"
20:26	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
20:26	masak	:D
20:26	* moritz	would like to visit the BELL labs
20:27		Chillance joined #perl6
20:27	FROGGS	\b? really?
20:27	masak	ya rly.
20:27	FROGGS	I'd like to visit Xerox and tell them that they are stupid
20:27	masak	no wait
20:27	masak	r: say "\b"
20:27	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
20:27	masak	r: say "\a"
20:27	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
20:28	masak	there we go.
20:28	FROGGS	r: say "\u"
20:28	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'sorry' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::QGrammar+{qq}+{stop}'␤»
20:28	masak	r: say ord "\a"
20:28	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«7␤»
20:28	FROGGS	;o)
20:28	* masak	submits rakudobug
20:28	doy	heh, irssi doesn't strip ^G
20:28	doy	that's... kind of annoying
20:28	FROGGS	masak: nooooooo!
20:29	masak	r: say ord "\a\a\a\a\a\a\a"
20:29	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«7␤»
20:29	masak	r: say "\a\a\a\a\a\a\a"
20:29	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
20:29	skids	hush.
20:29	masak	r: say "\a\a\a\a\a\a\a" x 50
20:29	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«…
20:29	tadzik	eek
20:30	* masak	hides
20:30	doy	actually, it does something weird, it's not just "not stripping"
20:30	doy	so it has to be intentional behavior?
20:30	doy	weird
20:31	masak	what does it do?
20:32	doy	whenever it receives \a, it generates a bell, even if the window isn't active, and switching back and forth to the window doesn't generate bells
20:35		s0rear joined #perl6
20:41	masak	s0rear! \0/
20:42		sorear_ joined #perl6
20:45	masak	moritz: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/0755ad0ddb looks good
20:45	moritz	\o/
20:46	masak	I have a general feeling of unease related to the commit, but it's not your fault.
20:46	masak	it's just... it feels like the problem being solved is one I can't get a good overview of.
20:46		att__ joined #perl6
20:47	masak	all I see is gradual patch-size solutions like this one going in over the years.
20:48	moritz	you mean that ufo is slowly growing, with neither a perspective to becoming smaller again, nor having a real design?
20:49	masak	oh, I wasn't really thinking of ufo here.
20:49	masak	the lack of design there is probably because I'm kind of an absentee original author.
20:49	masak	I was thinking of Rakudo/Perl 6 and library handling.
20:50	masak	and it's tricky because I don't really know of a better way to solve this than gradual evolution.
20:50	* [Coke]	sees MuEvent go by in the scrollback and realizes that he never resurrected cjbot.
20:51		sorear joined #perl6
20:51	* [Coke]	wonders if it's worth doing until we have a better event loop.
20:51	tadzik	not sure
20:51	tadzik	if the issue of it hanging with no reason is till there, then No
20:52	* masak	.oO( NoEvent )
20:52	tadzik	if it's not, then we still have the issue of busy waiting, so Probably No
20:53	masak	what's the issue of busy waiting, and is there a solution in sight?
20:54	FROGGS	I'd say if a event loop is busy when waiting than it is missing a delay...
20:55	moritz	it's missing a callback :-)
20:55	tadzik	moritz: we'll need a poll() that works on more than one socket :)
20:55	masak	ah.
20:55	moritz	.oO ( http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8f57168VX1r1mq56o1_1280.png )
20:56	masak	yeah, not having that sounds pretty limiting.
20:56	FROGGS	moritz: and I know what episode that is ;o)
20:57	FROGGS	.oO( should buy a horgan just to be sure )
20:57	moritz	speaking of which, today in the subway I saw a maybe 13 year old girl reading 50 Shades
20:57	moritz	I'm pretty sure I didn't read stuff like that when I was 13 :-)
20:58	FROGGS	I believe there were no such things when we were 13
20:58	FROGGS	and I didnt like books much at that time
20:58	jnthn	50 shades of grey? Isn't that the Visual Studio 2012 default color scheme?
20:59	moritz	:-)
20:59	FROGGS	ya, lets call it "color" scheme ;o)
20:59	moritz	you mean THAT SHOUTY PROGRAM?
21:00	jnthn	:)
21:01	jnthn	I had to use it in a talk a couple of months back. The talk was somewhat memorable for by reference to the DEBUG (I actually shouted it) menu :)
21:03	masak	THE_MENUS_ARE_ALL_CONSTANT
21:03	FROGGS	maybe MS should hire some designers? to round up the edges of their life-tiles or what it is called and to introduce ucfirst on menus
21:05	FROGGS	the thing is, even if you want to use their software (windows phone development tools with VS2012 express), then after installing windows 7 and its sdk for a day in a VM you get stuck when they wanna have 37$ just to let you copy the examples to your phone
21:05	FROGGS	-.-
21:05	FROGGS	wasted a day because of that
21:06	tadzik	maybe they should hire some logical thinkers :) They still didn't respond to my email "how do I bootstrap a windows dvd image"
21:06	tadzik	I get free copies of windows as a student, but they don't come as .iso files, but as an .exe which downloads an .iso
21:07	tadzik	I asked them if they expect me to come over to piratebay and get a windows there so I can download my legal copy
21:07	moritz	try wine :-)
21:07	tadzik	no, it didn't work :)
21:07	tadzik	it used to, but they fixed something with their downloader and now it doesn't ;)
21:07	masak	becoming an alcoholic is seldom the answer.
21:07	popl	No, it didn't work the first time I tried it either tadzik.
21:08	popl	I was in a similar situation.
21:08	tadzik	oh, they respond to emails eventually?
21:08	tadzik	well, I run a piratebay copy anyway; torrent uploaders are capable of making an install image that installs on an USB disk, microsoft apparently isn't
21:09	tadzik	maybe it's better with windows 8
21:11	popl	tadzik: I was referring to using Wine.
21:11	tadzik	ah, I see
21:12	spider-mario	didn’t work for me either
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21:28	masak	sorear++ # v24
21:28	masak	looking forward to v42 ;)
21:29	masak	also looking forward to what the object sharing will lead to.
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21:33	japhb_	After v42, he clearly will need to do a v42.bis release.
21:34	[Coke]	sounds like one of the refactors jnthn did recently for rakudo.
21:36	jnthn	Rakudo had this model since the nom days.
21:36	jnthn	(As in, part of what nom did was this)
21:36	jnthn	convergence++
21:37	[Coke]	part of the announcement was sharing compiler/runtime - that was a more recent update, aye?
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21:38	jnthn	[Coke]: Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I understood it as allowing the compiler to work against the real objects that will exist at runtime.
21:39	jnthn	Having a good way to do that was one of the biggest architectural differences between b and nom.
21:39	[Coke]	I'd expect you to understand it better than i. :)
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21:51	FROGGS	r: say "abc\0def"; say "abc\x00def"
21:51	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«abc␀def␤abc෯␤»
21:51	FROGGS	---------------------^ this should be the same, right?
21:52	sorear	jnthn: I did that part earlier, what's happening now is that the compiler can treat them as real objects
21:52	FROGGS	it shows \xEF for \x00
21:52	sorear	jnthn: before, they had to be wrapped in special handles and accessed using dedicated opcodes
21:52	sorear	soon we'll be able to use real mthods
21:53	[Coke]	r: say "abc{\x00}def"
21:53	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&x00' called (line 1)␤»
21:53	[Coke]	r: say "abc\x{00}def"
21:53	sorear	r: say "abc\x[00]def"
21:53	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'sorry' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::QGrammar+{qq}+{stop}'␤»
21:53	p6eval	rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«abc␀def␤»
21:53	FROGGS	ahh, I'm wrong, it is parsing the whole as hex
21:53	* [Coke]	thinks he found another error for FROGGS to fix!
21:53	sorear	jnthn: wonderful rakudobug :D
21:54	jnthn	sorear: Which one?
21:54	jnthn	Huh...that's odd.
21:54	FROGGS	the 'sorry' thing is fixed (in a pull request)
21:54	jnthn	should probably be panic, yeah
21:54	masak	I submitted that one an hour or so ago.
21:54	FROGGS	right
21:54	jnthn	Like I'm paying attention :P
21:55	FROGGS	someone need to have a closer look at my pull request and should merge then ;o)
21:55	jnthn	OK
21:55	FROGGS	masak: but not to RT, right?
21:55	FROGGS	cant find it
21:56	jnthn	I'm gonna sleep soon, but I can look tomorrow probably
21:56	FROGGS	jnthn: no hurry & sleep well
21:56	FROGGS	(... soon)
21:56	masak	FROGGS: I... I forgot. :/ but I did it just now. should be there now.
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22:05	* [Coke]	wants a perl6 RT bot.
22:05		fgomez joined #perl6
22:05	tadzik	hm
22:05	* [Coke]	will update cjbot to do it if the aforementioned event issues ever get resolved.
22:06	[Coke]	(or tadzik can do it, that's fine! ;)
22:06	tadzik	I'm megalazy these days :)
22:07	tadzik	haha. My Panda is just installing MuEvent using p6prove to test it. So cool
22:08	masak	:)
22:13	tadzik	hrm. Does "Invalid operation on binary string" when dealing with recv()d data ring a bell to you?
22:15	masak	yeah.
22:15	masak	probably getting sub-character stuff.
22:20	tadzik	so, Net::IRC fails due to that :)
22:26	masak	:/
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23:06	masak	'night, #perl6
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23:38	japhb_	Heh, even though sorear++ claimed he was going to do it after the v24 release, I note that the only two perl6-bench microbenchmarks in which niecza v22 and v24 perform differently are the while and for variants of the concat benchmark, where v24 is 13-15% faster. Slipped something in, did you sorear? ;-)
23:42	sorear	japhb_: I don't know what you're measuring, concat's implementation hasn't changed since october 9 ...
23:42	sorear	2010
23:45	japhb_	Weird.
23:45	japhb_	Now I wonder why the difference ....
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