Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-11-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:16 lue [Coke]: yes I would.
00:16 phenny lue: 26 Nov 16:38Z <[Coke]> ask lue if he wants rdstar to be added to the planet sixperl feed.
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00:44 [Coke] lue: what name do you want listed with the blog?
00:44 lue lue is fine. (unless you're not talking about my name)
00:46 [Coke] added.
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00:46 [Coke] (may take some time to propagate)
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05:12 moritz good morning
05:12 moritz oh noez, the test failure in Bailador is related to precompilation :(
05:12 moritz perl6 -Iblib/lib t/05-post-content.t  # fails
05:12 moritz perl6 -Ilib t/05-post-content.t  # works
05:23 sorear o/ moritz
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05:43 moritz \o sorear
05:57 moritz nr: multi postfix:<!>($x) { $x == 0 ?? 1 !! $x * ($x-1)! }; say 5!
05:57 p6eval rakudo e6e158, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«120␤»
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06:24 mtymula Hello;p
06:28 sorear Hello mtymula
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07:28 mtymula Does optional parameters work in subroutine signatures? Or maybe it is not implemented yet...?
07:29 FROGGS mtymula: it does work, ya
07:29 FROGGS IIRC you have to prepend the whatever-* to the parameter variable
07:30 tadzik append ?, I think
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07:31 mtymula Hm.. than wtf? I get runtime error when calling such sub.
07:34 sorear rn: sub foo($x?) { say $x } ; foo 5; foo
07:34 p6eval rakudo e6e158, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«5␤Any()␤»
07:34 sorear rn: sub foo($x = 12) { say $x } ; foo 5; foo
07:34 p6eval rakudo e6e158, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«5␤12␤»
07:34 sorear both optional parameters and optionals with defaults work in both major impls
07:34 mtymula_PC joined #perl6
07:35 mtymula_PC ok, let me show you what i wrote... maybe it's my foult...
07:35 mtymula_PC i have sub like this:
07:35 mtymula_PC multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){ say "open $input"; say "replace {%params.perl}"; say "save $output"; }
07:35 mtymula_PC i execute it like this:
07:35 mtymula_PC process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html");
07:36 mtymula_PC and i get that:
07:36 mtymula_PC open from.tmpl Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'   in 'process_template' at line 12:multiple_signatures.p6   in main program body at line 25:multiple_signatures.p6
07:37 sorear mtymula_PC: is it possible you are confusing optional parameters with slurpy parameters?
07:37 mtymula_PC well i don't think so...
07:39 mtymula_PC what i want to do is write a sub with some parameters that are optional so i don't need to write the same sub few times just to handle all cases
07:39 mtymula_PC so in this case i don't need a %params....
07:40 mtymula_PC to do this i should write %params? and then it would be optional right??
07:41 FROGGS then you would be able to pass a hash optional
07:41 FROGGS but it must be a hash then
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07:41 FROGGS or you have to flatten your params when calling your sub
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07:42 mtymula_PC yes but i do that
07:42 mtymula_PC beside this one hash i have also two scalar
07:42 mtymula_PC ^scalars
07:42 mtymula_PC $input, $output, %params?
07:42 FROGGS r: multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){  say "open $input";  say "replace {%params.perl}";  say "save $output"; }
07:42 mtymula_PC whan i call $input, $output
07:42 p6eval rakudo e6e158:  ( no output )
07:43 FROGGS r: multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){  say "open $input";  say "replace {%params.perl}";  say "save $output"; }; process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html");
07:43 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«open from.tmpl␤replace ().hash␤save to.html␤»
07:43 FROGGS looks good, no?
07:43 FROGGS r: multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){  say "open $input";  say "replace {%params.perl}";  say "save $output"; }; process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html", 1); # should die
07:43 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'process_template' will never work with argument types (Str, Str, Int) (line 1)␤    Expected any of:␤    :($input, $output, %params?)␤»
07:44 FROGGS r: multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){  say "open $input";  say "replace {%params.perl}";  say "save $output"; }; process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html", |(1 => 2)); # should die
07:44 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter '1' passed␤  in sub process_template at /tmp/VeDlxHesKc:1␤  in block  at /tmp/VeDlxHesKc:1␤␤»
07:44 mtymula Is it possible that by instalation of rakudo does not hande that becouse it is obscure?
07:44 FROGGS r: multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){  say "open $input";  say "replace {%params.perl}";  say "save $output"; }; my %optional; process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html", %optional); # should work
07:44 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«open from.tmpl␤replace ().hash␤save to.html␤»
07:45 FROGGS mtymula: dont think so
07:45 FROGGS it is not obscure what you want
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08:01 mtymula_PC r: multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){ say "open $input"; say "replace {%params.perl}"; say "save $output"; } process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html");
08:01 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/ZGZsFGsHLH:1␤»
08:01 mtymula_PC multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){ say "open $input"; say "replace {%params.perl}"; say "save $output"; }; process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html");
08:01 mtymula_PC r:   multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){ say "open $input"; say "replace {%params.perl}"; say "save $output"; }; process_template("from.tmpl", "to.html");
08:01 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«open from.tmpl␤replace ().hash␤save to.html␤»
08:02 mtymula_PC here it works... on my PC it does not...
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08:08 azawawi hi
08:08 phenny azawawi: 26 Nov 19:49Z <tadzik> tell azawawi I told panda to install random files from lib as well :) Hope this suits you
08:09 azawawi when is the release of rakudo star  2012-11 ?
08:09 FROGGS in the next days I suppose
08:09 azawawi and what are the expected features/enhancements?
08:10 FROGGS there is an announcement in the repo
08:10 FROGGS rakudos changelog shows a bit more though
08:11 * azawawi takes a look at https://github.com/rakudo/star/b​lob/master/docs/announce/2012.11
08:12 FROGGS mtymula_PC: can you show us your script and your error message that you get at home?
08:12 FROGGS using a no-paste service of your choice
08:12 azawawi no threading... oh well :)
08:12 FROGGS not yet ;o)
08:12 mtymula In a minute
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08:40 dalek nqp: e9ab312 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/ (2 files):
08:40 dalek nqp: add indirection for 'Unrecognized backslash sequence'
08:40 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e9ab3125e8
08:41 mtymula_PC FROGGS: ok i am back
08:41 mtymula_PC my programm:
08:41 mtymula_PC use v6;  multi sub process_template($input, %params){ my $output = substr($input, 0, -4) ~ "html"; say "open $input"; say "replace {%params.perl}"; say "save $output"; }  multi sub process_template($input, $output, %params?){ say "open $input"; say "replace {%params.perl}"; say "save $output"; }  my %data = ( fname => "Foo", lname => "Bar", );  process_template("index.tmpl", %data); say "-- two subroutines with different si
08:42 mtymula_PC ups ... there is a char limit here...
08:42 moritz IRC generally has
08:42 mtymula_PC than once again:
08:42 moritz NO
08:42 moritz don't paste it here
08:42 moritz paste it to a nopaste site
08:42 moritz and tell us the URL
08:42 mtymula_PC ??
08:42 moritz !!
08:42 mtymula_PC what is it??
08:43 moritz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastebin
08:43 sorear pick one, there are thousands to choose from
08:43 moritz FROGGS: re commit b6145c1, you can use $*W directly inside src/Perl6/Grammar.pm
08:45 moritz FROGGS: so you can do { $*W.throw($/, 'X::Backslash::NonVariableDollar')
08:45 mtymula_PC ok, it is here:   http://pastebin.com/t99UNhy5
08:46 moritz FROGGS: I mean directly, without the indirection
08:46 FROGGS moritz: ahh, cool, thanks
08:48 moritz mtymula_PC: upgrade to a newer version of rakudo
08:48 moritz mtymula_PC: which one are you using?
08:49 FROGGS moritz: you get a better pull request then
08:49 mtymula_PC 2011 04
08:49 FROGGS wow
08:49 grondilu mtymula_PC: that's old indeed
08:49 moritz mtymula_PC: that's like, 1 and a half year old
08:49 FROGGS mtymula_PC: we are almost in the year 2013 ;o)
08:49 moritz lots of bugs have been fixed since then
08:50 mtymula_PC oh come on...
08:50 grondilu mtymula_PC: rakudo is growing very fast, so you really want to keep up to date
08:50 moritz in particular, the bug you are experiencing has been fixed in the mean time
08:50 mtymula_PC just tell me how exactly can i do it in a save way:)
08:50 sorear where did you get that version?
08:50 sorear distribution?
08:51 mtymula_PC from http://rakudo.org/
08:51 mtymula_PC quite some time ago...
08:51 moritz then do the same thing that you did back then, but do it with a newer version :-)
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08:52 mtymula_PC ok, so it will overide what i have right now
08:52 mtymula_PC ?
08:52 moritz actually it's best if you remove the current installation first
08:53 mtymula_PC oh.. crap... can you tell me what i need to do exactly?
08:53 moritz not without more information
08:53 moritz where is rakudo installed? what operating system do you use?
08:54 moritz the first thing you should do is switch off the "tell me exactly what to do" mode, and turn on the "think and provide useful data" mode :-)
08:59 mtymula_PC ok lets do it
08:59 mtymula_PC i have a windows xp32 and fedora
09:00 FROGGS for winxp I'd recommend the rakudo star distribution from last month
09:01 FROGGS https://github.com/rakudo/star/downloads
09:01 FROGGS the first one called "Windows installer for Rakudo Star 2012.10 "
09:01 mtymula_PC_ joined #perl6
09:02 mtymula_PC_ ok, i am back... connection was terminated..
09:02 mtymula_PC_ location of my rakudo on winxp is C:\Rakudo
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09:04 FROGGS <FROGGS> for winxp I'd recommend the rakudo star distribution from last month
09:04 FROGGS <FROGGS> https://github.com/rakudo/star/downloads
09:04 FROGGS <FROGGS> the first one called "Windows installer for Rakudo Star 2012.10 "
09:04 FROGGS rename that C:\Rakudo to something else, and install the msi
09:04 mtymula_PC_ ok than
09:05 FROGGS if you think you have everyhing (your scripts an all), then remove that renamed foler
09:05 FROGGS folder
09:05 FROGGS on your linux box do that: https://github.com/rakudo/r​akudo/blob/nom/INSTALL.txt
09:06 FROGGS but I'm not sure if the step in line 54 work, IMO there is no perl6 executable in the build directory at that time
09:07 moritz why not?
09:07 moritz line 45 should have created one
09:08 FROGGS hmmmm
09:08 FROGGS I need to check
09:09 FROGGS I always use the install/bin/perl6 ...
09:09 moritz that's the saver alternative, yes
09:09 moritz but not before you ran make install
09:09 FROGGS right
09:10 mtymula89 Ok i installed rakudo on win, anything else to do?
09:10 tadzik hack!
09:12 FROGGS well, test your script..
09:13 mtymula89 Wooooooohooooo.... hey, guess what? It works;)
09:13 FROGGS ;o)
09:13 * moritz had to add a * in the substr() call to make it work
09:13 FROGGS to install on your fedora follow this one: https://github.com/rakudo/r​akudo/blob/nom/INSTALL.txt
09:14 mtymula89 Indeed mortiz
09:14 mtymula89 That i can grasp:)
09:14 * moritz should reinstall his hilight for mortiz
09:15 arnsholt I don't think I ever type in more than three or four letter prefixes of any given nick =D
09:16 mtymula89 Ok, I will deal with fedora later...
09:17 moritz (tab completion)++
09:17 sorear too many tims
09:18 mtymula89 Thanks a lot!
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09:28 jnthn morning, #perl6
09:29 FROGGS morning jnthn
09:29 moritz \o jnthn
09:30 sorear morning #jnthn
09:30 jnthn Spontaneous hardware failure. Didn't have that one happen while teaching before...
09:31 jnthn (thankfully, not the machine I was delivering the course from...)
09:31 moritz the chair you were sitting on? :-)
09:32 jnthn :P
09:32 jnthn No, one of the student computers.
09:33 jnthn Just started emitting a series of loud bleeps. I suspect overheating, but the fact that half an hour later turning it on only produces the same and no output suggests it's a fairly drastic hardware fail...
09:33 jnthn *suspected
09:34 mtymula89 Capacitors on a mainboard or ram mems
09:35 mtymula89 Or a gpu on your graphic card
09:36 mtymula89 Start from it than check rams if all fails look carefuly on the motherboard
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09:37 moritz wrong approach
09:37 moritz the teacher isn't responsible for the student's hardware
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09:38 tadzik it would be way too easy to avoid doing anything in class
09:38 moritz go get a replacement, and have somebody else fix it :-)
09:38 tadzik like swapping mouse and keyboard cables back in the days when they were on ps/2...
09:38 mtymula89 Ok, just do nothing.. than
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09:49 jnthn yes, replacement hardware is l'answer
09:51 mtymula89 L'answer ?? Meaning lame ??
09:52 moritz "the answer", but with french article
09:53 mtymula89 Oh.. i almost felt offended;p joke ofc
09:54 jnthn :P
09:54 jnthn Playing with languages. We does it. :)
09:54 sorear jnthn: clearly you should teach at my old college, we had projectors die on us weekly
09:56 jnthn sorear: ouch...I only saw that happen once
09:56 jnthn Smoke came out!
09:57 mtymula89 Where do you teach??
09:57 sorear jnthn: These were mostly just soft failures that forced the profs to wing it for the rest of the period
09:58 jnthn mtymula89: Various places in Sweden :)
09:58 jnthn In Malmo today
09:58 mtymula89 Oh than maybe the teason is a tempetature differences:)
09:59 mtymula89 *Reason
09:59 jnthn bah, it's not even cold here :P
09:59 mtymula89 Joking:)
10:00 jnthn Dang, we get snow on Friday and I won't be here for it...
10:01 mtymula89 At least you get it... from where i sit it looks like there will be snowing after new yers eve
10:02 jnthn ok, back to teaching stuffs...bbl :)
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10:03 mtymula89 tadzik: are there any lectures about perl6 in our butiful country
10:03 mtymula89 :)
10:04 tadzik mtymula89: well, I did one once :)
10:04 tadzik 2 or 3 years ago, or something. Just before the first Rakudo Star
10:04 mtymula89 In wa-wa?
10:04 tadzik yep
10:04 tadzik I should still have slides somewhere, if you want to have a look
10:05 tadzik I think someone reused them in Spain later :)
10:05 mtymula89 It would be great:)
10:05 sorear hah, wikipedia actually has a redirect wa-wa -> Warsaw
10:06 mtymula89 But the reason i ask is that i really would like to parricipate nex time
10:06 huf wa-wa?
10:06 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/Perl6-slides, one of my oldest repos it seems :)
10:06 mtymula89 sorear... clever
10:06 tadzik huf: it's an abbreviation of WArszaWA
10:06 huf ah
10:08 sorear It's funny because it's also the (US) English onamatopoeia for crying
10:08 sorear (probably with a different value for 'w' though)
10:08 mtymula89 So it is more accurate than you think...
10:09 sorear How so?
10:09 tadzik oh, I don't associate Warsaw with crying :)
10:10 mtymula89 No? Read the history books...
10:10 Woodi morning everyone :)
10:10 tadzik if I only thought about history I'd have to cry everywhere I go
10:12 mtymula89 Well you are right
10:14 Woodi moritz: "precedence related traits" - what's they are/do/usefull for ? it's looks so specialized that hard to imagine it usefullness...
10:14 mtymula89 Tadzik this is exactly what i need:) meaning these slides.
10:15 huf tadzik: but if your w is a v, what is v?
10:15 huf ... or is it a v?
10:15 tadzik we don't have 'v' in Polish alphabet
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10:15 huf tadzik: whoa.
10:16 Woodi btw. on Debian testing rakudo 2012.10 is available straight from repos :)
10:16 tadzik mtymula89: they're pretty outdated ins ome places, especially regarding the ecosystem
10:16 Woodi huf: no x too :)
10:16 Woodi nor q :)
10:16 huf Woodi: well yes, we dont have x or q either
10:16 mtymula89 Yes i see that but nevertheless usefull
10:16 huf and y only in compounds
10:16 huf but v feels so standard to me ;)
10:16 huf oh well
10:17 Woodi huf: here is ... ? :)
10:17 huf hungary
10:17 Woodi haloo bro ! :)
10:17 huf oh right, we drink and fight together
10:18 huf or as the rhyme is known in hungarian, "we drink each other's wine together"
10:18 sorear what amuses me is the j
10:18 sorear French, English, Spanish, and German have clearly different js
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10:18 huf the germans are correct tho, the others are wrong ;)
10:19 Woodi huf: I had something like that in mind :)
10:20 Woodi what it sounds in German ? :)
10:21 bonsaikitten Woodi: like a "j" of course
10:21 bonsaikitten what a silly question!
10:21 Woodi o, sorry that I ask... ;)
10:21 sorear Woodi: I think german and polish have the same j
10:22 mtymula89 I agree
10:22 Woodi I realy need to learn some "niemiecki" :)
10:22 sorear the German j is used in most places to the east, until you get to the Cyrillic zone
10:23 mtymula89 E! gosciu!! Ja ci dam cyrylice;)
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10:24 Woodi Russians have j too, but, hmm, ciphered in writting language :)
10:24 Woodi |-O I think...
10:24 huf star trek?
10:25 huf i see you call them "német"-s too :)
10:25 sorear .u CYRILLIC LETTER IO
10:25 phenny U+0451 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER IO (ё)
10:25 sorear .u CYRILLIC LETTER YO
10:25 phenny sorear: Sorry, no results for 'CYRILLIC LETTER YO'.
10:26 sorear .u ю
10:26 phenny U+044E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER YU (ю)
10:28 sorear I suppose it's a question of cultural norms relative to transliteration
10:29 Woodi yea, all our languages are correct for us :)
10:29 Woodi so, there are plans for 3-months release of * ?
10:29 mtymula89 Just like religion, politics, rase, belive...
10:30 sorear when you get to Japan, they have the syllable じ, which sounds like it starts with an English j, and is usually transliterated ji, except when they use zi instead
10:30 mtymula89 Untill you jump to the more abstract level of understanding
10:31 Woodi mtymula89: no, no... religion, politics and rase ar no 'all the way down' correct :)
10:31 sorear the Japanese cultural interpretation of the Latin alphabet is fairly closely aligned with the English one
10:31 mtymula89 I am not saying they are, i am saying they feel like they are
10:32 sorear whereas the Chinese interpret it in a way completely unlike anything in Europe
10:32 sorear they're just squiggly lines, there is no one correct way to interpret them as sounds
10:34 Woodi I realy wonder how that babel thing happened :)
10:34 sorear I blame radiation.
10:34 Woodi I blame time and separation :)
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: 184c9e4 | (Paweł Murias)++ | / (2 files):
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: [nqp] start of work on rules
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/​rakudo-js/commit/184c9e4f54
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: 4ff91b7 | (Paweł Murias)++ | / (3 files):
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: [nqp] Pass test 31, very basic rules support.
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: Needs cleanup of how values are converted.
10:34 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/​rakudo-js/commit/4ff91b7344
10:35 pmurias joined #perl6
10:35 Woodi sorear: so niecza NativeCall can be .pm compatible ?
10:37 sorear Woodi: yes ideally
10:37 Woodi suuuper!
10:37 mtymula89 Who wrote using perl 6 book, chapter 4 ??
10:38 mtymula89 Every example reminds me about eating....
10:38 Woodi pls tell you want to shoot someone or thanks ? :)
10:39 mtymula89 I want him to buy me lunch
10:40 Woodi I think someone from here :)
10:40 * Woodi coffe making
10:40 arnsholt git blame can probably tell you who wrote most of it =)
10:41 sorear looks like jnthncode
10:42 sorear huh, git blame is very mixed
10:42 arnsholt Yeah, food and beer definitely sounds like jnthn =D
10:42 sorear chromatic, moritz, jnthn, tim bunce, Przemysław Wesołek on one page
10:43 kresike joined #perl6
10:43 kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
10:43 sorear yo kresike
10:43 kresike sorear, o/
10:43 mtymula89 Hi
10:48 Woodi sorear: one more question: if you would want to implement ropes for niecza you will do it ib C# or in C ?
10:49 Woodi just hoping for nice, new C lib...
10:50 sorear Woodi: c# for current-niecza, C for the hypothetical C backend
10:50 sorear I do not think foreign calls are cheap enough to use here
10:51 Woodi k, thanx
10:52 arnsholt Woodi: And if some part of NativeCall turns out to be completely incompatible with Niecza, we'll probably want to change S21
10:53 sorear bear in mind that I have not read any of the new S21 and I have only the barest minimum understanding of NativeCall
10:53 sorear I just know that it's a high priority and the CLR can support the backend aspects of it
10:54 arnsholt How familiar are you with the C# (CLR?) foreign function interface stuff, BTW?
10:56 sorear arnsholt: somewhat.  it doesn't seem particularly different from what I know from Parrot, Haskell, and VB6
10:59 arnsholt Cool. There're some aspects of FFI I'm not sure how should be done (complex value types, specifically)
10:59 sorear We'll come up with something together.
10:59 arnsholt And jnthn suggested looking into how the C# FFI handles it, as it needs to tackle similar problems as Perl 6
11:00 Woodi arnsholt: while using NativeCall it happens to me wanting to call C preprocessor macro. for now I hardcoded correct numbers inserted by macro in .pm. I there a way to call C macro from Perl6 ?
11:00 arnsholt That's impossible
11:01 Woodi ok :)
11:01 arnsholt preprocessor macros are handled at compile-time, and they're not available in the library
11:01 sorear arnsholt: oh, and I've also more or less completely read the x86 and amd64 C and C++ ABI specs (plus a much smaller amount of 68k and PPC)
11:01 arnsholt Oh, that's awesome!
11:02 arnsholt Another area I'm less knowledgeable in than I should be
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11:19 dalek doc: fe0907e | (Pawel Pabian)++ | lib/Capture.pod:
11:19 dalek doc: Fixed missing closing bracket in example.
11:19 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fe0907e287
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11:27 isBEKaml OHHAI, #perl6!
11:27 moritz LOL IT'S isBEKaml
11:28 tadzik oh hai
11:29 isBEKaml R* release in a couple days?
11:29 * isBEKaml excitedly looks forward to it
11:29 moritz maybe even today
11:29 moritz there's a release candidate already
11:30 moritz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/​rakudo-star-2012.11-RC0.tar.gz
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11:31 isBEKaml moritz++ #fast, as ever!
11:32 isBEKaml BTW, I think the last R* release msi didn't include modules. Was that intended?
11:32 isBEKaml *msi*
11:38 isBEKaml how do I build this dist? Do I have to build parrot, nqp and rakudo separately(cd'ing into them, out of the tarball)
11:39 isBEKaml Don't we have an unified Configure.pl/Makefile for this?
11:39 moritz just perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot && make install
11:39 isBEKaml --gen-parrot won't clone a new parrot repo if it finds one in the current directory?
11:40 moritz correct
11:40 isBEKaml awesome.
11:40 isBEKaml I hate to clone an 100mb repo again.
11:41 FROGGS moritz: do you need some more information about RC0?
11:42 FROGGS some module tests are failing, but just the ones that were discusses here yesterday
11:42 moritz FROGGS: no
11:47 isBEKaml rn: say $::x;
11:47 p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤  at Niecza.StashCursor.Core (System.String key, Boolean final, Niecza.StashCursor& sc, Niecza.Variable& v, Niecza.Variable bind_to) [0x00000] in <file…
11:47 p6eval ..rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $x is not declared␤at /tmp/Y6HqLX3ofD:1␤»
11:48 isBEKaml rn: my $::x = 3;
11:48 p6eval rakudo e6e158:  ( no output )
11:48 p6eval ..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $x is declared but not used at /tmp/V56t3OwDst line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m$::x = 3;[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
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11:48 sorear sleep&
11:48 isBEKaml g'night, sorear
11:49 FROGGS moritz: here we go: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/92
11:55 isBEKaml r: say (;:[])
11:55 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
11:56 moritz r: say (:[]).perl
11:56 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«[]␤»
11:57 FROGGS I thought : is for named params, what does it do without the routine call?
11:57 moritz create a pair, normally
11:57 moritz r: say ( :a ).perl
11:57 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«"a" => Bool::True␤»
11:57 FROGGS ahh, two dots, I see
11:58 moritz r: say ( :a<b c> ).perl
11:58 jnthn But the semicolon seems to impair it somehow...
11:58 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«"a" => $("b", "c")␤»
11:58 jnthn That's odd.
11:58 moritz r: say (;:[]).perl
11:58 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«[]␤»
11:58 FROGGS r: say (;:a).perl
11:58 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«"a" => Bool::True␤»
11:58 moritz the semicolon doesn't seem to do anything
11:58 jnthn oh!
11:59 jnthn I missed the lack of .perl :)
11:59 jnthn phew, not a weird bug then :P
11:59 FROGGS *g*
11:59 moritz so, what does the colon in :[] do?
11:59 jnthn At least I got to make a pun :)
11:59 jnthn Good question...
11:59 moritz how fitting for your role
11:59 * moritz waits for a pun on role punning
12:00 isBEKaml moritz, jnthn: That's merely RT#115284
12:00 isBEKaml :)
12:00 FROGGS nothing? I mean it is supposed to devide terms... but there is none before ;
12:00 moritz it's supposed to do quite a lot of different things, depending on context
12:00 moritz std: :[]
12:00 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
12:01 isBEKaml std: say (;:[])
12:01 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
12:01 moritz n: say (:[]).perl
12:01 jnthn It certainly should parse, says STD
12:01 p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«"" => []␤»
12:01 moritz pugs: say (:[]).perl
12:01 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected ":[])."␤    expecting "::"␤    at /tmp/bmqlZvEEY_ line 1, column 6␤»
12:01 isBEKaml FROGGS: I believe it looks like: say ; :[] # the :[] does nothing here.
12:02 isBEKaml r: :[]
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6e158:  ( no output )
12:02 moritz no, it's an argument to say()
12:02 FROGGS well, you get the last thing within ()
12:02 FROGGS r: say (1;2;3;4)
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«4␤»
12:02 moritz r: sub f(|a) { say a.perl }; f (:[])
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Capture.new( list => ([],).list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
12:02 isBEKaml moritz: say;
12:02 moritz r: sub f(|a) { say a.perl }; f (;:[])
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Capture.new( list => ([],).list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
12:02 isBEKaml r: say
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
12:02 moritz r: say []
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«␤»
12:02 moritz isBEKaml: that's no prove :-)
12:03 moritz r: sub f(|a) { say a.perl }; f (;:[]) # look, &f sees the []
12:03 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Capture.new( list => ([],).list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
12:03 isBEKaml moritz: :) farenuff.
12:03 FROGGS .oO( E_FARENUFF )
12:04 isBEKaml fair, fare, damn homonyms!
12:04 moritz aye, there's a fare amount of them in English :-)
12:07 isBEKaml jnthn: when can we see rakudo journeying into jvm land? :-)
12:08 FROGGS he said something about december
12:08 FROGGS but I guess he starts to work on that then, not finishing it ;o)
12:09 isBEKaml FROGGS: yes, I was asking about initial workings. Not the finished product. I thought it'd be interesting to see it evolving.
12:11 isBEKaml moritz: rakudo star doesn't install precompiled modules into ~/.perl6 ?
12:12 moritz isBEKaml: no
12:12 moritz erm, I hope not, at least
12:12 moritz if so, I need to fix it
12:12 moritz ~/.perl6/lib is deprecated
12:12 isBEKaml I was wondering because the build seemed to be compiling those modules.
12:13 moritz install/lib/parrot/4.6.0/lang​uages/perl6/lib/LWP/Simple.pm
12:13 moritz install/lib/parrot/4.6.0/langu​ages/perl6/lib/LWP/Simple.pir
12:13 moritz isBEKaml: it installs them, but not into ~/.perl6/lib
12:14 isBEKaml moritz: ah, I didn't see that one. :-)
12:15 isBEKaml moritz: any reasons for deprecating ~/.perl6/lib apart from usability issues between distributions?
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12:18 moritz isBEKaml: usability between different rakudo installations too
12:21 isBEKaml moritz: I remember that one. Stale pirs and others. Yapsi once bit me there. :)
12:22 isBEKaml moritz: would be nice to see p6doc installed along with other binaries in install/bin instead of modules/doc/bin.
12:23 moritz agreed
12:23 moritz isBEKaml: could you open a ticket in https://github.com/rakudo/star/issues for that please?
12:26 isBEKaml moritz: done. https://github.com/rakudo/star/issues
12:26 isBEKaml whoops> https://github.com/rakudo/star/issues/12
12:27 moritz isBEKaml++
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12:36 isBEKaml moritz: https://github.com/svatsan/star/commit/c​f0563d79eb640ba8bf6afb73b64a10930b9241d
12:36 isBEKaml moritz: does this look like the fix?
12:38 moritz isBEKaml: might very well be
12:39 isBEKaml moritz: want me to send a pull request?
12:39 moritz isBEKaml: yes please
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12:42 isBEKaml moritz: done.
12:50 isBEKaml perl6 -n -e '' hangs my machine. This behaviour is different from the one shown in RT#107992
12:50 moritz hangs?
12:51 moritz it's supposed to read from standard input
12:51 moritz and terminate when you send an EOF
12:51 isBEKaml boo, I should read. :|
12:54 sergot hi ! o/
12:55 isBEKaml hello, sergot
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13:45 jnthn phenny: tell isBEKaml once December comes, $dayjob gets much less intense and I expect to get some initial JVM things pushed, and will probably have LHF tasks for interested hackers. ;-)
13:45 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when isBEKaml is around.
13:45 FROGGS LHF?
13:46 * FROGGS is interested in things he can do
13:46 jnthn FROGGS: Low Hanging Fruit
13:46 FROGGS ahh
13:46 jnthn As in, things that should be relatively easy to dig into without having to learn a mass of background.
13:46 FROGGS ya, thats my problem too
13:51 moritz I know a nice task
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13:52 moritz change the star build system so that it bootstraps panda, and then uses panda to install the rest of the modules
13:52 moritz at least I think that's a good idea to do
13:53 moritz because currently we maintain the same logic in panda and in star, and that's a bit... nasty
13:53 tadzik I wonder how panda would react to having non-writable statefile
13:55 moritz hm
13:55 moritz might need to have two state files
13:55 moritz one non-writable, one writable
13:56 tadzik hm
13:57 tadzik now bootstrap.pl checks if it can write into %*CUSTOM_LIB, is that right?
13:57 moritz how does Perl 5 do it?
13:57 moritz tadzik: correct
13:57 tadzik Perl 5 doesn't have local::lib by default :)
13:57 moritz ah, right
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14:51 dalek Perlito: cb31482 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (5 files):
14:51 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js2 - allow using a string as a reference
14:51 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/cb3148268d
14:51 [Coke] aaagh. I know we have some LOTR fans here. one of my favorite authors (Scalzi) just pointed out that we shouldn't get our hopes up about the hobbit... after all, it IS a prequel trilogy.
14:52 stopbit joined #perl6
14:56 moritz :-)
14:57 arnsholt =D
14:58 arnsholt When talking about the books, it's LotR that's the sequel though =)
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16:02 kresike bye folks
16:07 dalek Perlito: 5eb66c4 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (5 files):
16:07 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - alternate impl for caret Vars; 3 more tests pass in base/lex.t
16:07 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/5eb66c4c2f
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17:01 jnthn evening, #perl6
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17:03 dalek Perlito: 69de328 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
17:03 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - parser - decode caret Vars at compile-time
17:03 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/69de3284fb
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17:11 dalek Perlito: 72f9f0a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
17:11 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - Dumper - encode "unsafe" strings
17:11 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/72f9f0a647
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17:13 diakopter jnthn: howdy
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17:16 dalek Perlito: 22e3af4 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
17:16 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js2 - caret Var cleanup
17:16 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/22e3af43d2
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17:32 supernovus How does %*CUSTOM_LIB interact with @*INC, and which paths are searched first? One issue I had come across with users of Rakudo Star is that modules bundled with the distribution override newer versions installed with Panda. It's one of the reasons I never use Star, or any other distribution that includes non-core modules (other than "Test" of course.)
17:33 masak evenin', #perl6
17:35 supernovus I guess overriding wouldn't be a problem if we had the versioning support, so we could have multiple versions of modules installed. Anyone want to tackle that? (and if not, where do I begin to look at module discovery and loading, so I can look at hacking at it?)
17:38 jaldhar joined #perl6
17:40 diakopter masak: howdy
17:43 supernovus good * masak
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17:45 FROGGS supernovus: If I understand moritz correctly then newer R* will use panda to install modules when installing R*. so there will be just one version of a module at a time
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17:47 FROGGS supernovus: versioning support will not always help since sometimes you may want to downgrade to an older version
17:47 supernovus FROGGS: Hurray! That's fantastic! Still, nobody else has tackled module versioning, so if nobody objects, I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. I'm hunting for the location of the module loading stuff.
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17:47 FROGGS supernovus++
17:47 FROGGS versioning ftw!
17:49 FROGGS would it be a bad idea to support having different versions of a module installed at a time?
17:49 supernovus FROGGS: that's exactly where versioning is good, you can have a new version, and an old version, and by specifying version constraints in the use statement, you can say, "okay, I want at least this" or "I want newer than this, but older than this" or "I want this version specifically, and only this version, got it!"
17:50 FROGGS a path like lib/My/Module/1.0.0/[files]
17:50 FROGGS so that you can explicitly use version 1.0.0 of a module from withing script A, and version 1.0.1 from script B
17:50 FROGGS right
17:51 FROGGS cool
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17:52 supernovus Due to how the paths work, I'm thinking it would have to be more like lib/My/Module.1.0.0.pm6, as the use/require/need statements don't know about every module/class in a bundle, just path names.
17:52 FROGGS but you to fiddle with %*INC, so that the highest non-dev release gets picked when no version is specified
17:52 FROGGS k
17:53 FROGGS is there a spec about versioning? would be good to make one first before hacking
17:59 supernovus http://perlcabal.org/syn/S11.html specifies some of it, but I think it needs some updates. It was designed before the advent of any package managers for Perl 6, so it doesn't take into account the information from META.info, etc.
18:02 FROGGS I like the idea of having Module-1.0.0.pm6 and other in the same dir, so you would just need to symlink the newest to Module.pm6
18:02 FROGGS that will work well for .pm's, but not for other things that dont have a version
18:03 FROGGS like images or other resources
18:03 supernovus You wouldn't even need to do that, as if you didn't specify a version constraint in your use statement, it would use the newest version by default.
18:03 * FROGGS will read S11 this evening
18:04 FROGGS what if you want to require a module by its path? you would need to invent the whole versioning thing again in your code
18:04 FROGGS with symlinks you can be sure that a Module.pm6 is there
18:05 supernovus The versioning spec as it currently exists is a bit lacking when it comes to things like resources or binaries. It was't designed with those in mind unfortunately. We may need to do some spec refining as well as implementation testing. It could take a few iterations to get something that everyone likes :-)
18:06 supernovus FROGGS: symlinks are great, and I use them a lot, but I also realize that many people run Windows, and does Windows have an equivalent to symlinks? Basically, whatever we do in the versioning spec, needs to be able to be supported on any platform.
18:07 FROGGS a fallback of a symlink is a copy of a file ;o)
18:07 supernovus I know some of my own libraries have depended on Unix specific features, and I'm 100% guilty of never testing my stuff on anything but Linux, but I'm trying to get better about writing stuff to be as platform neutral as possible :-)
18:09 * supernovus prints CLA, signs it, and puts it in the "need to go to snail mail office" pile.
18:11 FROGGS did that last week
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18:29 [Coke] supernovus: it is faxable, I think.
18:29 [Coke] or perhaps scannable and emailable.
18:29 * [Coke] str parrot, at least, had that part worked out. not sure if TPF does.
18:30 tadzik supernovus: email it
18:30 tadzik it worked for me :)
18:33 supernovus tadzik: Hmm, that's nice to know, they didn't say anything about being able to e-mail it on the form itself.
18:33 supernovus That would certainly be a lot faster than snail mail...
18:34 supernovus Hmm, hope it's just my ISP, but perlfoundation.org is not coming up for me.
18:36 tadzik supernovus: http://isup.me/perlfoundation.org
18:36 tadzik ...but it seems down to me as well :)
18:38 supernovus I'd say I'm glad I'm not the only one, but if it's down for a bunch of people, that's not a good thing.
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18:46 [Coke] seen robrt
18:46 aloha robrt was last seen in  15671 days 18 hours ago .
18:46 supernovus Re-reading S11. It seems fairly complex. If we declare a class like "class Foo:auth<github:supernovus>:ver(v1.0.0)" how would we go about accessing the meta data such as "auth" or "ver" (or is that even supported in any implementations yet?)
18:46 [Coke] seen allison
18:46 aloha allison was last seen in #parrot 18 days 19 hours ago joining the channel.
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19:03 sorear good * #perl6
19:04 supernovus good * sorear
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19:43 FROGGS supernovus: btw, I have several platforms as VMs here to test things
19:44 supernovus Okay, digging in through the code, it appears the colonpairs appended to class/module names are stashed in the LongName and never referred to again. Making things even more complicated, use, require, need, etc. all handle things differently, and none of them seem to support colonpairs attached to the name. I'm going to have a learn a lot more about the guts of this thing before I can do anything useful. A crash course in NQP may h
19:44 supernovus elp, thankfully it seems most of the PIR blocks are gone. NQP I can handle, PIR is the devil's work (IMO)
19:51 supernovus FROGGS: I have Ubuntu 12.10 64 bit, Funtoo Linux current 64 bit, and Windows 8 Pro 64bit. I have Rakudo (not Star, a daily-built git checkout) and Niecza on both Linux distros, and don't even have developer tools on Windows, let alone a Perl 6 implementation. I should give it a try some day.
19:53 FROGGS I've got some BSDs, Mac OS x 10.6, solaris, gnu hurd, win xp and win 7, most of them to test Perl 5 stuff
19:54 supernovus Sweet. I used to have a bunch of test environments, but have gotten lazy.
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20:08 grondilu nr: my @a = <f o>; say "foo" ~~ / < @abc > ** 3 /;
20:08 p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @a is declared but not used at /tmp/_Myj7OgoCa line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m@a = <f o>; say "foo" ~~ / < @abc > ** 3[0mâ�¤â�¤Match()â�¤Â»
20:08 p6eval ..rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
20:08 grondilu nr: my @abc = <f o>; say "foo" ~~ / < @abc > ** 3 /;
20:08 p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @abc is declared but not used at /tmp/e0LRFYzCgS line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m@abc = <f o>; say "foo" ~~ / < @abc > **[0mâ�¤â�¤Match()â�¤Â»
20:08 p6eval ..rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
20:09 grondilu nr: my @abc = <f o>; say "foo" ~~ / <@abc> ** 3 /;
20:09 p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(3) text(foo) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
20:09 p6eval ..rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
20:09 grondilu NYI in rakudo I guess
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20:37 FROGGS tadzik: after sending the CLA to TPF, is there any reaction that one could expect?
20:37 masak FROGGS: don't think so.
20:37 masak at least, I don't remember one.
20:38 FROGGS masak: k
20:38 masak back when I sent mine in, people voted on #parrotsketch about whether to give out commitbits.
20:38 FROGGS interesting
20:38 masak I remember backloggin over people doing "+1" on the proposal to commitbit me. made me feel warm all over. :>
20:39 FROGGS ahh, so you dont have to dance your name in order to get commit bit?
20:39 masak I didn't. maybe you do. :P
20:39 masak but this was in, hm, 2008. and I haven't seen that voting process in a while.
20:39 jnthn We're givin' WHO a commit bit? :P
20:39 FROGGS well, is easier for me than for you when I think about it...
20:39 masak jnthn: hehe. you're four years late :P
20:39 jnthn :P
20:40 jnthn FROGGS++ # sending in CLA
20:40 FROGGS well, masak++ forced me to ;o)
20:40 masak CLA, the gift that keeps on giving.
20:41 ifim joined #perl6
20:42 FROGGS it is a bit like jehovah's witnesses, running around, knocking on doors: "do you believe in Perl?"
20:43 FROGGS but its okay, this way the code is saved
20:43 tadzik FROGGS: I don't remember any particular reaction, no :)
20:44 FROGGS thinking of the openstreetmap data in berlin that got "lost" because its "owner" decided to keep it close at some point
20:44 tadzik hehe,
20:44 Woodi versioning would be fine for perlcode.pm6. but it will be nice to detect what compiler version was used to precompile modules (in case all precompiled ends in common dir)...
20:45 tadzik recently, instead of being knocked to my door I got a hand-written letter from JW
20:45 FROGGS JW?
20:45 tadzik that's way more romantic way to get hit on than usual :D
20:45 tadzik Jehova's Witnesses
20:45 FROGGS Woodi: we have to take all this into account, yes
20:45 FROGGS ohh
20:46 bowtie joined #perl6
20:47 * masak tadzik I got my first girlfriend by handwritten letter :)
20:47 * masak fails at privmsg :P
20:47 tadzik haha :)
20:47 FROGGS *g*
20:48 masak I must be tireder than I thought.
20:48 masak oh well.
20:48 tadzik tired deer
20:48 masak we were in second grade. a bit too early for serious romance.
20:51 tadzik I had a similar crush at the beginning of primary school. She ended up being a world-class model years later
20:51 tadzik only to give up the career once it got serious, or something
20:51 FROGGS well, its not the best job though
20:51 tadzik those were the days, eh?
20:51 FROGGS ;o)
20:52 tadzik yeah, I know. "Gosh, this guy was in primary school 3 years ago or something!" :P
20:53 FROGGS hehe
20:53 masak you have your whole life in front of you.
20:53 masak unlike geezers like me. :P
20:53 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
20:53 tadzik cheer up, grampa!
20:53 * masak .oO( not helping... ) :P
20:54 jnthn masak: Careful, I'm only a few years behind :P
20:54 FROGGS damnit, I'm thirty! the ppl in medieval were already dead at that age
20:54 masak jnthn: come on, you're almost as young as tadzik! :P
20:55 FROGGS well, compared to the usual Perl 5 hacker we are pretty young
20:55 tadzik spunky little sisters
20:55 FROGGS at least when comparing to the folks at the YAPC::EU
20:56 tadzik heh, if it wasn't for pjcj's son I'll probably be the youngest one there
20:56 jnthn I might as well use a picture of a darn whirlpool at this rate...
20:56 jnthn uh, wrong window
20:56 * jnthn must be as tired as masak :P
20:57 masak at least my mis-window utterance wasn't about something as embarrassing as whirlpools! :P
20:57 sorear tadzik: mberends jr was also pretty young
20:57 tadzik yeah, he was the clear winner on the PRS
20:57 masak was gonna mention young berends.
20:57 tadzik sadly they weren't on the actual yapc
20:58 masak mberends has grown disappointed with the deployment rate of Perl 6 :/
20:59 tadzik well, I'll also prefer it tomorrow :P
20:59 tadzik but this is hard stuff
21:02 masak yeah.
21:03 masak I just want to use Perl 6 :) if world domination fails to happen, I'll still have Perl 6, and I'll be a pretty effective programmer with it.
21:04 FROGGS well, today I had to think about of a second systems effect when thinking of Perl 6... but when I see what happens these days I'm sure it will be in a good shape (or maybe it is already)
21:07 masak there are still things to do.
21:07 masak and still too few to do it. :)
21:07 tadzik I still need to refactor keybags and friends
21:07 supernovus r: my $short_v = v1.0.0; say $v;
21:07 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $v is not declared␤at /tmp/CKm9jqYst4:1␤»
21:07 fgomez joined #perl6
21:07 supernovus r: my $short_v = v1.0.0; say $short_v;
21:07 tadzik I don't think we ever resolved the role attributes dillema
21:07 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«v1.0.0␤»
21:08 supernovus r: my $long_v = v10.0.0; say $long_v;
21:08 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/dnJBrd4Ru6:1␤»
21:08 tadzik (or what was that)
21:08 FROGGS masak: see, I need commit bit ;o)
21:09 masak :)
21:09 tadzik "a private attribute declared using has is private to the class, not to the role"
21:09 tadzik IIRC this part of spec is a lie
21:09 * masak read "this part of cake is a lie"
21:10 masak need... sleep...
21:10 tadzik yeah
21:11 skids hrm. well were it a lie it kinda makes it hard to componentize a class without exposing all its guts.  Unless there's an alternative?
21:11 masak tadzik: I've thought about roles and attributes. I think if roles can *easily* be made to have their own private attribute, then they should. if not, then it's worth having a serious discussion whether it's worth it.
21:12 masak tadzik: one of the nice things about interfaces in C# is that you can apply several different concretizations of a generic interface to a class.
21:12 tadzik r: https://gist.github.com/4157041
21:12 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Attribute $!a not declared in class MyClass␤at /tmp/PLSYm8Y1Ep:10␤»
21:12 masak and that kinda presupposes that attributes be private to the role, not the class.
21:12 tadzik I don't mind them being private to whatever they want to be, but there was something I wanted to do and couldn't, whatever the way
21:13 masak *nod*
21:13 skids I've always just assumed the above gist result was a NYI/bug.
21:14 tadzik another one:
21:14 tadzik r: https://gist.github.com/4157055
21:14 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
21:17 skids Oh wait, I remember now.  You're supposed to use "trusts $*CLASS" which is NYI.
21:18 masak that sounds backward.
21:19 masak it's the role that declares the attribute, no?
21:31 supernovus Interesting, the <version> rule in the grammar seems limited to a single digit after the 'v'.
21:32 masak it's to prevent Perl 10 from happening...
21:32 supernovus masak: hah!
21:32 masak supernovus: no, I think you're reading that wrong...
21:32 supernovus If I copy and paste the very same grammar code into a standalone grammar, it matches 'v10.0.0' just fine.
21:32 masak https://github.com/perl6/st​d/blob/master/STD.pm6#L1610
21:33 masak <?before \d> just means that it expects the next thing to be a digit.
21:33 masak it's a zero-width match.
21:35 supernovus std: v1.0.1
21:35 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
21:35 supernovus std: v10.0.1
21:35 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Confused at /tmp/KyrrepllGu line 1:â�¤------> [32mv10.[33mâ��[31m0.1[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤       dotty method or postfixâ�¤        postcircumfixâ�¤  postfix_prefix_meta_operatorâ�¤   postopâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤     'v10' used at line 1â�¤Parse
21:35 p6eval ..failed␤FAILED 00…
21:36 masak I stand corrected.
21:37 supernovus It seems STD agrees with Rakudo on this one, both fail when attempting to match a major version larger than 9.
21:37 skids masak: yes the role declares the attribute, and declares what roles/classes it trusts.  Which can be $*CLASS if you don't want to name them ahead of time.
21:37 supernovus n: v1.0.0
21:37 p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/qpWXza0y2p line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32mv1.0.0[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method statement_level in type Anyâ�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src…
21:37 masak supernovus: I don't understand. <vnum> clearly expects one or more digits.
21:38 supernovus masak: Yeah, it makes no sense at all to me. I copied the bit from Rakudo's Grammar.pm and stuffed it into a standalone grammar, and it matches perfectly. The same match in Rakudo (and apparently STD) fails.
21:39 masak maybe it's a NFA bug or something.
21:39 * skids guesses that's ::?CLASS actually in S14
21:40 supernovus This helps clarify things a bit.
21:40 supernovus r: v10
21:40 p6eval rakudo e6e158: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&v10' called (line 1)␤»
21:41 supernovus std: v10
21:41 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Undeclared routine:� 'v10' used at line 1�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
21:41 supernovus The rule to match routines/symbols is overriding the rule to match versions.
21:43 supernovus I guess just use Version.new('10.0') for now for any major version over 10.
21:43 jnthn Probably because LTM
21:45 masak oh, 'course.
21:45 masak that makes 100% sense.
21:47 moritz sorry that I didn't get around to do the R* release
21:47 moritz will do tomorrow
21:48 masak no prob. enjoy whatever's distracting you presently ;)
21:51 pmurias joined #perl6
21:53 FROGGS gnight
21:54 masak 'night, FROGGS
22:07 moritz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/​rakudo-star-2012.11-RC1.tar.gz # next RC
22:07 moritz if nobody objects, I'll release that one tomorrow
22:14 masak 'night, #perl6
22:21 sirrobert joined #perl6
22:21 sirrobert hey all =)
22:22 sirrobert I'm running the debugger on a very simple script ("my $foo = "bar"; say $foo;"), but I keep getting this error if I try to inspect anything:
22:22 sirrobert P6opaque only supports type changes where the MRO of the original type is a suffix of the MRO of the new type
22:22 sirrobert Anyone know why or how I can fix it?
22:24 jnthn sirrobert: Odd, I was demonstrating latest debugger on a recent Rakudo at LPW at the weekend without problems...
22:24 sirrobert The only thing I changed is a move to 64-bit architecture
22:25 sirrobert I'll pop open a new 32b and see if it happens.
22:25 jnthn sirrobert: oh...
22:25 jnthn https://github.com/jnthn/rakudo-debugger/com​mit/e4c27f0838f8482a64aa722cac1ee5a45531447e
22:25 jnthn Is your debugger at least that new?
22:25 sirrobert it's rakudo-star-2012.10
22:25 jnthn OK...
22:26 jnthn I can see how a latest Rakudo + 2012.10 debugger would cause the problem
22:26 sirrobert any fixes come to mind? =)
22:26 sirrobert (and thanks)
22:26 jnthn But for me it failed immediately rather than on first inspection, I think.
22:26 sirrobert oh, it doesn't fail
22:26 sirrobert I can step all the way through the program, I just can't inspect anything.
22:27 sirrobert even on a script as simple as I said before
22:27 jnthn OK, that's weird.
22:27 sirrobert how can I update to the latest debugger?
22:27 jnthn I mean, the commit I linked fixed such an issue when we started handling %*LANG differently in Rakudo
22:28 jnthn Easiest way to have a latest debugger is with a latest R*. But I'm surprised if you're using an R* Rakudo and debugger; those should match up
22:29 jnthn (er, surprised if you're using them and getting the problem, that is)
22:29 sirrobert hmmmmmmm
22:29 sirrobert I recompiled and re-installed from scratch and same issue
22:29 jnthn I guess you've made sure it's not some kinda version skew?
22:29 sirrobert no
22:29 sirrobert I don't even know how to make sure of that
22:29 jnthn Like, no different Rakudo or debugger earlier in the path?
22:30 sirrobert perl6-debug -v says:  This is perl6 version  built on parrot 4.6.0 revision 0
22:30 sirrobert (notice the missing version number)
22:30 sirrobert perl6 -v says: This is perl6 version 2012.10 built on parrot 4.6.0 revision 0
22:32 sirrobert huh
22:32 sirrobert I just compiled the latest perl6-debug and it worked
22:32 sirrobert but the one with the 2012.10 R* didn't
22:32 jnthn Oddness
22:32 sirrobert maybe it got bundled badly?
22:33 jnthn Maybe, but didn't 2012.10 work for you previously?
22:33 sirrobert I don't remember...
22:33 sirrobert haven't coded in like 2 weeks =)
22:33 sirrobert (well, bash scripting...)
22:33 jnthn OK. Hopefully the 2012.11 works out the box for you at lesat...
22:33 jnthn *least
22:33 sirrobert well, either way I can use the version I compiled
22:33 jnthn http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/​rakudo-star-2012.11-RC1.tar.gz # release candidate if you want to try it
22:33 sirrobert easy enough =)
22:33 sirrobert thanks for your help
22:33 sirrobert oh, cool
22:33 sirrobert I'll try that
22:35 sirrobert ok, time for dinner.  ttyl
22:35 jnthn o/
22:36 jnthn time for sleep here &
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