Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-12-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 pmurias japhb: git@github.com:pmurias/rakudo-js.git
00:02 not_gerd take-off \o/
00:02 pmurias japhb: make assuming you have nqp and node
00:03 pmurias sorear: why do you ask?
00:03 * not_gerd has successfully published his first advent post
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00:04 pmurias japhb: I don't support -e yet, what do you need it for?
00:04 pmurias nqp bin/nqp-js.nqp | node
00:05 sorear pmurias: diakopter's reaction to primitive recursion
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00:24 japhb_ pmurias, most of the benchmarks are microbenchmarks that I just run with -e. Perlito*, despite needing separate compile and run phases in some modes, could still accept a -e for the compile phase, pretty much just treating it as a special case of a normal script.
00:30 not_gerd bye, #perl6
00:32 pmurias japhb_: I could add -e easily
00:32 pmurias japhb_: you are measuring compile time and runtime together?
00:32 japhb_ pmurias, oh excellent
00:32 japhb_ I generally am only measuring runtime, as I recall.  Lemme check again, it's been a while.
00:34 dalek rakudo-js: 7cc7124 | (Paweł Murias)++ | run_tests:
00:34 dalek rakudo-js: add passing test to run_tests
00:34 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/7cc712439e
00:34 dalek rakudo-js: 84a7c67 | (Paweł Murias)++ | bin/nqp-js.nqp:
00:34 dalek rakudo-js: [nqp] add -e
00:34 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/84a7c6770d
00:34 japhb_ Nope, I'm wrong -- I measure both together, but then the compile time can be subtracted out in "ignore startup time" mode during analysis.
00:34 pmurias japhb_: it still needs to be piped into node
00:42 japhb_ pmurias, might want to mention in README that IO::CaptureOutput is required by wrap_nqp
00:45 japhb_ pmurias:
00:45 japhb_ $ nqp bin/nqp-js.nqp t/99-test-basic.t | node
00:45 japhb_ "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'v6.pbc'
00:45 japhb_ Sure enough, no v6.pbc around ...
00:45 japhb_ (That's after running 'make', BTW)
00:48 lue .oO(A missing semicolon on line 104 of my script is what caused a "Confused" message on line 1 :[ )
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01:37 [Coke] can someone verify that t/spec/S05-metasyntax/unknown.t has an invalid plan?
01:41 [Coke] also: t/spec/S12-methods/private.t
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01:46 [Coke] n: say $*EXECUTABLE_NAME;
01:46 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/niecza/run/Niecza.exe␤»
01:47 dalek niecza: 4599a2c | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
01:47 dalek niecza: fudging this test is hard, don't run it.
01:47 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4599a2c22b
01:47 dalek roast: aa40a29 | coke++ | S (4 files):
01:47 dalek roast: niecza fudge
01:47 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/aa40a2919e
02:00 [Coke] sorear: mind if I run %!sort on t/spectest.data ?
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02:00 [Coke] (changes 66 lines)
02:01 [Coke] (35 if I leave integration at the top)
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02:04 [Coke] ... will go for forgiveness.
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02:08 sorear [Coke]: in the past I've been keeping it %!sort'ed, but it depends on locall
02:08 sorear I don't remember whether I was keeping it C sorted or en_US sorted
02:12 [Coke] I went with %!sort -f for now?
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02:20 dalek roast: 2c74a24 | coke++ | S1 (3 files):
02:20 dalek roast: niecza fudge
02:20 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2c74a240a5
02:21 dalek niecza: 3141b05 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
02:21 dalek niecza: Reorder spectest.data
02:21 dalek niecza:
02:21 dalek niecza: (%!sort -f)
02:21 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3141b0528f
02:21 dalek niecza: 6f045ec | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
02:21 dalek niecza: Add spectests we run with no fudging.
02:21 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6f045eca85
02:21 dalek niecza: d511451 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
02:21 dalek niecza: run more slightly fudged tests
02:21 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d511451f8d
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02:35 colomon [Coke]++
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02:52 japhb_ colomon, pmichaud, GlitchMr, smashz: You four appear to be the only users to have (unreverted) commits to the perl6/bench-scripts repo.  I'd like to pull some or all of those into perl6-bench; any objection to me importing them?
02:52 colomon non from me
02:54 japhb_ Thanks, colomon
02:55 colomon errr, none.  japhb_++
02:56 xenoterracide http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2011/12/03/buffers-and-binary-io/ so this tells me how to make a buffer a string... but how do I coerce a string into a buffer
03:01 doy "The reverse operation is $Buf.encode($encoding)."
03:01 doy that would probably be clearer if it used $Str instead of $Buf there
03:03 xenoterracide yeah
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03:36 grondilu Hello.  Nice article today about projecteuler and perl6
03:39 colomon is day 4 already up?
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: a030b03 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/hamm-grondilu.pl:
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: adding HAMM solution
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/a030b03f75
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: fc5a527 | grondilu++ | rosalind/hamm-grondilu.pl:
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #3 from grondilu/master
03:40 dalek perl6-examples:
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: Adding solution to rosalind/HAMM
03:40 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/fc5a5276f9
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03:57 dalek perl6-examples: f1e768a | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/ (2 files):
03:57 dalek perl6-examples: adding GRPH and SUBS for roalind
03:57 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/f1e768a0d5
03:57 dalek perl6-examples: c4d576b | grondilu++ | rosalind/ (2 files):
03:57 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #4 from grondilu/master
03:57 dalek perl6-examples:
03:57 dalek perl6-examples: Adding two more solutions for Rosalind
03:57 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/c4d576bb41
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04:31 dalek perl6-examples: 4d5084a | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/ (6 files):
04:31 dalek perl6-examples: another bunch of solutions for rosalind
04:31 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/4d5084afa2
04:31 dalek perl6-examples: 63fcde6 | grondilu++ | rosalind/ (6 files):
04:31 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #5 from grondilu/master
04:31 dalek perl6-examples:
04:31 dalek perl6-examples: adding six other solutions for Rosalind
04:31 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/63fcde6b69
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04:59 dalek perl6-examples: 1e1e305 | (L. Grondin)++ | euler/prob0 (5 files):
04:59 dalek perl6-examples: adding some solutions to euler
04:59 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/1e1e305508
04:59 dalek perl6-examples: 6ada933 | grondilu++ | euler/prob0 (5 files):
04:59 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #6 from grondilu/master
04:59 dalek perl6-examples:
04:59 dalek perl6-examples: adding some solutions to project euler
04:59 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/6ada93397e
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05:07 * xenoterracide wonders if a use version statement shouldn't just be required period, to allow a force compliance with that version mode. (where class autodetection is likely to not work in the future if p5-mop is successful)
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05:58 moritz good morning
05:58 moritz where have all the phennies gone, long time passing
05:59 moritz jnthn: yes, sounds sensible. Not sure if .gist is the right approach though, because that includes the ===SORRY=== sorry right now (but I don't know if it would include that in worries)
06:09 sorear good morning moritz
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06:40 grondilu What does:  ==> Testing Digest
06:40 grondilu t/digest.t .. All 7 subtests passed
06:40 grondilu mean ?
06:40 grondilu I don't understand, the tests pass but they fail installation.
06:40 sorear probably nonzero error code
06:40 sorear prove -v for more info
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06:51 grondilu with 'prove -e perl6 -v t/digest.t' I get a 'All tests successful.'
06:52 grondilu (and I manually compiled the module so it's not the issue)
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06:54 grondilu I'm told 'Parse errors: No plan found in TAP output' but I did set 'plan 7;'.  I don't get it.
06:54 grondilu .oO(wonder what's TAP anyway)
06:55 sorear test-anything protocol
06:55 sorear the data which Test.pm generates
06:55 sorear 1..7
06:55 sorear ok 1 - foo
06:56 sorear ok 2 - bar
06:56 sorear not ok 3 - quux
06:57 grondilu Is it ok to do tests in a loop? 'use Test; plan 3; for ^3 { ok some-test($_) }'  ?
06:58 grondilu (that's the only difference I can see with what I did before)
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07:08 grondilu Well I had to do it without a 'for' loop and now it works
07:09 grondilu that's weird as I could not reproduce Panda's failure with prove.
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07:57 moritz it should be OK, yes
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08:51 kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people
08:55 sorear good morning all you happy kresikes
09:04 FROGGS_ morning
09:17 jnthn morning
09:17 moritz \o
09:18 jnthn moritz: hm, good point on .gist
09:18 jnthn moritz: Well, actually the model is 3-level
09:18 jnthn .panic = die right away
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09:18 jnthn .sorry = die after up to 10 of them, or at the end of parse if we got any
09:18 jnthn .worry = don't die, just report the things when we do
09:19 jnthn er, when we're done parsing, I meant
09:19 jnthn no, I meant what I said and the other thing also :)
09:19 jnthn Gee, I'm so on the ball this morning :P
09:21 moritz I see what you're getting to, anyway
09:21 moritz so, worry are warnings, and delayed until the end of the parse
09:21 moritz and sorry are delayed fatal errors, right?
09:22 jnthn Yes
09:22 jnthn But if we ever panic, we want to report the worry and worry things
09:22 jnthn *and sorry
09:22 jnthn bah, more coffee clearly is needed
09:23 moritz so the exception printer needs to become aware of @*SORRY and @*WORRY, right?
09:23 jnthn Well, that's one approach but then how do we test them?
09:23 jnthn Also feels we couple things a bit much...
09:24 moritz hm
09:24 moritz maybe we need an exception type which is a group of exceptions
09:24 jnthn I pondered that X::Comp can carry an @.sorries and an @.worries
09:24 jnthn But that leaves questions like "so which do we pick as the one we throw if we have multiple @.sorries"?
09:25 moritz but since @.sorries and @.worries are X::Comp's, that would be a whole tree
09:25 moritz rather have an X::Comp::Group does X::Comp which holds them all
09:25 moritz and then we can throw the Group
09:25 moritz and it's message can join all of the @.sorries>>.message
09:26 jnthn Well, STD gives them all a location message when dying too
09:26 jnthn But yeah, to a first approximation, that.
09:26 moritz then .message and the not-yet-there .locmess or whatever STD calls it
09:27 jnthn Yeah, I did an equivalent of locmess last night
09:27 jnthn (conveyed the surrounding context)
09:27 jnthn Thing is, if we start throwing X::Comp::Group, what of all the tests?
09:30 cedrvint r: my $c = [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *
09:30 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc:  ( no output )
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09:31 cedrvint this hits an illegal instruction on my computer :/
09:32 jnthn Hm, works locally for me as well
09:33 cedrvint jnthn: with the REPL?
09:33 jnthn Yeah
09:33 jnthn Even produces the otuput
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09:34 cedrvint hum, it works under GDB ...
09:34 jnthn btw, I think it also doesn't mean what you wanted.
09:34 cedrvint I didn't mean anything actually :)
09:34 jnthn Item assignment prec means that $c just becomes [1]
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: 5153a87 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/iprb-grondilu.pl:
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: solution for rosalind/IPRB
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/5153a87781
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: 4d410e6 | grondilu++ | rosalind/iprb-grondilu.pl:
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #7 from grondilu/master
09:35 dalek perl6-examples:
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: rosalind IPRB solution
09:35 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/4d410e6a57
09:36 cedrvint jnthn: oh, my fault: I was rebuilding libparrot.so in the same time. I'm not able to reproduce indeed.
09:36 jnthn That'd do it ;)
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09:56 diakopter .. that was interesting. viewing a .png I just generated from a .pdf in linux... rebooted the computer.
09:56 diakopter (the linux vm in which I generated and was viewing the .png)
09:58 diakopter never seen that before
09:58 diakopter Windows, yes; linux, not before today
10:00 diakopter how could viewing a .png reboot the machine?
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10:02 cedrvint diakopter: you've been hacked by a rootkit inserted by the PDF-to-PNG converter :)
10:02 diakopter well, it's just poppler-utils from bubnut
10:07 grondilu PERL6LIB is not used anymore, is it?
10:08 grondilu I'm asking this because it is still mentioned in perl6 --help
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10:16 moritz grondilu: it's used
10:17 grondilu oh ok
10:18 grondilu Not related.  "Magic access to documentation", as described in S02, is NYI, right?
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10:18 moritz grondilu: I think it's partially implemented
10:18 moritz grondilu: grep for WHY in roast
10:18 grondilu "roast"?
10:20 moritz spectests
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10:24 FROGGS_ grondilu: there a github repo with that name
10:24 FROGGS_ https://github.com/perl6/roast
10:30 * grondilu cloned git://github.com/perl6/specs.git
10:36 grondilu rn: say "Foo" ~~ / < alpha - F >+ /;
10:36 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«「F」␤␤»
10:36 p6eval ..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(F) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
10:36 grondilu rn: say "Foo" ~~ / < alpha - [F] >+ /;
10:36 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«Match()␤»
10:36 p6eval ..rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
10:36 grondilu rn: say "Foo" ~~ / <alpha - [F]>+ /;
10:36 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally)␤at /tmp/hSKxrxNEkV:1␤»
10:36 p6eval ..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/omuXACs6c9 line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "Foo" ~~ / <alpha -[33mâ��[31m [F]>+ /;[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ast in type Anyâ�¤  a…
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10:53 grondilu rn: say "NQSV" ~~ m:overlap / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> /;
10:53 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Regex modifier overlap not yet implemented at /tmp/rxIhV4MifP line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "NQSV" ~~ m:overlap[33mâ��[31m / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> /;[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.…
10:53 p6eval ..rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:53 grondilu r: say "NQSV" ~~ m / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> /;
10:53 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«「NQSV」␤␤»
10:53 grondilu r: say "NQSV" ~~ m:overlap / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> /;
10:53 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:54 grondilu r: say "NQSV" ~~ m:g / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> /;
10:54 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:54 grondilu Am I missing something here?
10:57 moritz r: say "NQSV" ~~ m / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> /;
10:57 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«「NQSV」␤␤»
10:57 moritz grondilu: just ongoing design issues with m:g//
10:58 grondilu r: say "NQSV" ~~ m:P5:g /N[^P][TS][^P]/;
10:58 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:58 grondilu ok I'll wait then
11:00 moritz m:g works fine when matching against $_
11:00 grondilu r: say  m:g / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> / given "NQSV"
11:00 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«NQSV␤»
11:00 grondilu r: say  m:overlap / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> / given "NQSV"
11:00 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«NQSV␤»
11:00 grondilu cool
11:03 grondilu r: given "NQSV" { if m:overlap / N <-[P]> <[TS]> <-[P]> / { say $/.perl } }
11:03 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«Any␤»
11:03 grondilu why Any here?
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11:11 masak g'day, #perl6
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11:11 dalek perl6-examples: 4f9bdb0 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/mprt-grondilu.pl:
11:11 dalek perl6-examples: MPRT rosalind solution
11:11 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/4f9bdb0f24
11:11 dalek perl6-examples: 2634fbb | grondilu++ | rosalind/mprt-grondilu.pl:
11:11 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #8 from grondilu/master
11:11 dalek perl6-examples:
11:11 dalek perl6-examples: MPRT rosalind solution
11:11 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/2634fbb548
11:12 grondilu I can credit moritz++ for this one
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11:34 pmurias japhb: you have a installed nqp and parrot?
11:34 * moritz claims innocence
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11:52 dalek perl6-examples: ea80eea | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/iev-grondilu.pl:
11:52 dalek perl6-examples: IEV rosalind solution
11:52 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/ea80eea1f6
11:52 dalek perl6-examples: 3a42b1e | grondilu++ | rosalind/iev-grondilu.pl:
11:52 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #9 from grondilu/master
11:52 dalek perl6-examples:
11:52 dalek perl6-examples: IEV rosalind solution
11:52 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/3a42b1ed9b
11:52 grondilu I feel a bit bad about getting some karma for each rosalind solution I add :)
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11:57 masak don't feel bad. you're adding order to the perl6 universe. that's worth karma :)
11:58 dalek perl6-examples: 989cd3d | grondilu++ | rosalind/iev-grondilu.pl:
11:58 dalek perl6-examples: Update rosalind/iev-grondilu.pl
11:58 dalek perl6-examples:
11:58 dalek perl6-examples: shorter version
11:58 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/989cd3dea5
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11:58 grondilu ^ this one is beautifully short :)
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12:10 rjt_pl $greetings && $salutations #!
12:10 masak greetings, rjt_pl!
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12:14 * cedrvint is raising his arm to ask a question, and to say hello :)
12:15 cedrvint o/
12:15 cedrvint please, could you explain me this syntax: 1, 2 .. * ==> (*[0 .. 5])()
12:16 cedrvint I mean, why so many '(' ')'
12:17 cedrvint what's on the right side of this feed operator?
12:18 moritz cedrvint: where did you get that code from?
12:18 moritz and does it actually work?
12:18 cedrvint r:  1, 2 .. * ==> (*[0 .. 5])()
12:18 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc:  ( no output )
12:18 moritz r: say (*[0..5]).perl
12:18 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new()␤»
12:18 grondilu yeah you send an infinite list to a closure.  Should work.
12:18 moritz that's a closure that does a slice index on its argument
12:19 cedrvint moritz: from the advent calendar (problem 53)
12:19 grondilu r: say 1, 2 .. * ==> (*[0 .. 5])()
12:19 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«12..Inf␤»
12:19 moritz and the () at the end invokes it
12:19 masak looks like code that's being too clever for its own good, in any case ;)
12:19 masak cedrvint: could you be more specific? the advent calendar has days, not problems.
12:20 cedrvint masak: sorry, day 4 :)
12:20 * grondilu does not understand this advent calendar thing
12:21 cedrvint moritz: thanks!
12:21 masak grondilu: an advent calendar has one "thing" for each day, which is revealed during the days 1..24 of December.
12:23 masak moritz: why does it invoke it? can't you just pass a closure on the rhs of a feed operator?
12:23 masak moritz: also, your 'say' above seems mis-precedence'd.
12:23 masak (it prints 1, 2 .. *)
12:24 masak ==> has the same precedence as ;
12:25 moritz masak: mine?
12:28 cedrvint n: (1, 2 .. * ==> (*[0..3])()).say
12:28 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Feed ops NYI␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1435 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3353 (infix:<==>> @ 4) ␤  at /tmp/MoDmswblmf line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting lin…
12:31 masak moritz: oops, sorry. grondilu's.
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13:30 tadzik ehlo #perl6
13:30 rjt_pl Hiya tadzik
13:32 GlitchMr "checking whether python2 version is >= 3.0... no"
13:32 GlitchMr Sometimes ./configure scripts are enjoyable
13:35 cedrvint :)
13:36 timotimo "checking if your system still has that obscure bug from 1975... no"
13:37 timotimo "checking if the turing machine tape is infinite..."
13:37 hoelzro "Checking whether build environment is sane ... build environment is grinning and holding a spatula.  Guess not."
13:40 GlitchMr But explain to me how python2 could magically be Python 3?
13:40 moritz ln -s python3 python2
13:40 phenny moritz: 03 Dec 22:36Z <jnthn> ask moritz if perhaps a reasonable approach would be if our @*WORRIES contained typed things, that did X::Comp::Worry role or something, and for the time being we just .gist them at the appropriate point? Then should be quite refactorable when we figure out exactly what's right.
13:40 phenny moritz: 03 Dec 22:36Z <jnthn> tell moritz Thing is that we need to show them all together at the end, or pass them along with the compilation exception, if we want to be STDish anyway.
13:40 moritz phenny: thank you, I already know that
13:43 moritz grondilu: is there any reason you do all your changes to perl6-examples as pull requests?
13:44 moritz grondilu: you can push to the perl6/perl6-examples repo directly
13:44 GlitchMr Doesn't he already have push access?
13:45 moritz yes
13:45 moritz which is why I was suprised to see a bunch of pull requests
13:46 GlitchMr I was constantly getting new e-mails about that
13:52 cedrvint std: 0, 1 ... * ==>  *[^3]
13:52 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
13:53 cedrvint std: 0, 1 ... * ==>  (*[^3])()
13:53 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 45m␤»
13:54 cedrvint are these two lines above equivalent?
13:54 GlitchMr No
13:55 GlitchMr *[^3] is sub {$_[^3]}. (*[^3])() is sub {$_[^3]}() (instantly called subroutine)
13:55 GlitchMr ==> with subroutine doesn't make sense, but STD cannot know that
13:55 cedrvint then I don't understand how (*[^3])() gets its parameters in:
13:56 cedrvint r: 0, 1 ... * ==>  (*[^3])()
13:56 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc:  ( no output )
13:56 GlitchMr Using ==>
13:56 cedrvint r: (0, 1 ... * ==>  (*[^3])()).say
13:56 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤»
13:57 GlitchMr ==> automatically adds argument on the left side to function call on right side
14:02 masak cedrvint: I'm also suspicious of that code. I wonder if it's been properly tested.
14:02 phenny masak: 03 Dec 23:27Z <japhb_> tell masak Regarding the halting problem intentionally avoiding Turing completeness, some years ago I administered a product called Lotus Notes, which was a groupware app with builtin scripting, databases, and replication (way ahead of its time, actually).  Anyway, scripts were executed on servers, not clients, so the scripting language intentionally disallowed any operation that could perform an explicit loop, but did have
14:02 phenny masak: 03 Dec 23:28Z <japhb_> tell masak (sorry, cut off by IRC): (e.g. all rows in a DB table); it was all to avoid runaway scripts taking down servers.
14:03 cedrvint masak: I'm still confused :)
14:03 masak japhb: wow.
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14:04 masak japhb: the very idea of "here, take this client code and run it on the server" sounds rather reckless these days.
14:04 masak I bet I could think of some way or other to slow the server down, even without explicit loops...
14:05 GlitchMr masak: I think it was from Perl 6 Advent Calendar
14:05 cedrvint GlitchMr: thanks for your help, I'm missing something about the "instantly called", I guess.
14:05 [Coke] eh. running code in a container/VM so you can only take down your container is still a strategy.
14:05 GlitchMr gerdr has used ==> (*[0..100])() instead of [^101].
14:05 GlitchMr Actually, not sure if he intended 101 numbers.
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14:13 masak actually, you could even design a FLooP-alike which enables recursion, as long as the programmer is forced to pass along one of moritz' "variants" as a parameter. i.e. a non-zero integer that strictly decreases with each recursive step.
14:13 masak er, non-negative integer, I mean.
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14:17 not_gerd hello, #perl6
14:17 masak not_gerd! \o/
14:17 masak I'm thinking for next year's advent calendar, we might declare a "topic bankrupcy", and allow any topic to be written about.
14:17 masak even repeats from previous years.
14:18 PerlJam masak++
14:19 moritz or we just need to write so many awesome modules that we can write about those :-)
14:19 not_gerd joined #perl6
14:19 masak or that.
14:20 * not_gerd has WLAN issues
14:20 not_gerd r: <1 2 3> ==> elems() ==> say;
14:20 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«3␤»
14:20 not_gerd r: <1 2 3> ==> elems ==> say;
14:20 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ==> instead␤at /tmp/apUF25ZNjc:1␤»
14:20 not_gerd that's where the superfluous parens come in
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14:20 masak but I have the feeling that the market for articles about features is bigger than that for articles about modules.
14:20 not_gerd no idea if that's expected behaviour
14:20 masak r: <1 2 3> ==> &elems ==> &say
14:20 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Sorry, do not know how to handle this case of a feed operator yet. at line 2, near " &say"␤»
14:21 masak r: <1 2 3> ==> *.elems ==> *.say
14:21 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Sorry, do not know how to handle this case of a feed operator yet. at line 2, near " *.say"␤»
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14:24 Guest74820 exit
14:30 Ulti out of interest is there any plans to parallelize the feed operator stuff so that you have producer/consumer style threading?
14:30 PerlJam masak: re repeating previous years, some of the topics from 2009, 2010 are about features that have been subtly enhanced or modified in 2011,2012 (for instance).  In that case, I think a new post on the same subject would be okay.
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14:32 moritz Ulti: yes
14:32 Ulti :cool:
14:35 cedrvint rn: my $c = { $^a.say; &?BLOCK.arity.say }; $c('test')
14:35 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«test␤1␤»
14:35 p6eval ..rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«test␤No such method 'arity' for invocant of type 'Nil'␤  in block  at /tmp/RfuLfzfz_F:1␤␤»
14:37 moritz r: say { &?BLOCK }.()
14:37 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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14:43 cedrvint moritz: it this a bug or a feature not yet implemented?
14:44 moritz cedrvint: simply not yet implemented
14:45 hoelzro are suggestions for the advent calendar needed? if so, I have one that I've been meaning to write about myself for a few months
14:45 PerlJam hoelzro: do tell.
14:46 hoelzro I've been meaning to write an article about the "30,000" foot (or 10.000 meter, I suppose) view of Perl 6
14:46 hoelzro what is Perl 6, what is Rakudo, what is Parrot, what is NQP, what is STD, etc
14:46 hoelzro basically, as an introduction to how the whole thing is structured
14:46 hoelzro because this has been a bit of a barrier to entry for me, I feel
14:47 jnthn r: my @dwarves{ 1..7 };
14:47 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Shaped arrays is not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/B51EdfK1M_:1␤»
14:47 jnthn Nor is good English grammar :P
14:47 tadzik (:
14:49 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
14:50 PerlJam jnthn: As soon as shaped arrays are implemented, the grammar of that message won't matter at all  ;)
14:50 jnthn PerlJam: I am hope this is soon landing!
14:51 PerlJam how soon?  (I could use something to write about for my advent slots  :-)
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14:53 masak jnthn: I read it as "[The feature] shaped arrays is not yet implemented".
14:53 masak but maybe that's being too forgiving of the error message :)
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15:01 moritz IMHO NYI-messages don't warrant too much wordsmithing :-)
15:05 jnthn No, it's certainly not worth fixing. Just amused me  :)
15:09 cedrvint what about hoelzro's proposition?
15:09 cedrvint *proposal
15:09 masak slots 17 and 19 are open. it sounds like a nice proposal to me.
15:10 hoelzro the reason I haven't written it is because I honestly don't know enough about how everything fits together
15:10 masak oh, it's jnthn's turn to write today.
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15:10 hoelzro but I'd be happy to work with a veteran so we could blend the perspectives of someone relatively unfamiliar with the project with someone who's been working on it for a while
15:10 masak well, uh, tomorrow.
15:10 cognominal joined #perl6
15:11 masak hoelzro: either find someone to privmsg with, or simply ask here.
15:11 mjreed joined #perl6
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15:11 PerlJam hoelzro: you can ask here over several days to build up a nice article.
15:11 hoelzro ok, I think I could do that
15:12 PerlJam hoelzro: and it doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough  :)
15:12 hoelzro heh
15:13 tadzik still no one to tackle corountines and gather-takes? :)
15:13 moritz if it's such a big wish, I can tackle it
15:13 tadzik maybe if I could understand them first, hm
15:14 moritz though there isn't really too much to write about it
15:14 PerlJam tadzik: "adventures in understanding" would be a good post too
15:15 tadzik hehe
15:15 tadzik if that's for a remote date, I can maybe try that and look for feedback meantime
15:15 tadzik if I fail I can always quickly write something about useful modules :)
15:15 tadzik or "Modules waiting for your pull requests"
15:16 * tadzik signs up
15:16 masak \o/
15:16 dalek mu: 24ae49d | tadzik++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
15:16 dalek mu: Add myself as 19th
15:16 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/24ae49d6ad
15:18 PerlJam hoelzro: better grab a slot before they're all gone!
15:18 hoelzro where does one sign up?
15:18 masak hoelzro: see above commit.
15:18 hoelzro ah ha.
15:20 PerlJam tadzik: I tend to like posts about things the author isn't quite sure about.   They feel more "real" to me.  Better than a post that just explains something as if that's the way it has always been. (especially when we're talking about something as dynamic as Perl 6)
15:22 dalek mu: 42c51a3 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
15:22 dalek mu: Add myself to the advent calendar schedule
15:22 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/42c51a36b1
15:22 hoelzro I hope I don't regret this =S
15:22 PerlJam hoelzro: we'll do our best to make sure you don't  :)
15:23 hoelzro heh
15:23 masak yay, all the slots are taken, except for 24. \o/
15:23 masak TimToady, pmichaud, jnthn: who'll do 24? :D
15:23 PerlJam yeah, except I still need to think of topics for 2 of my slots  :(
15:24 masak PerlJam: if it helps, I usually like your posts a lot.
15:24 masak write about something you like.
15:24 PerlJam masak: and if that doesn't help?  :)
15:25 masak PerlJam: quoting a musical I like: "count to 10... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10... and then... scream" :P
15:25 hoelzro this is what I've got thus far: https://gist.github.com/4205120
15:26 masak hoelzro: like Common Lisp, or C, or Ruby.
15:26 hoelzro Ruby's a spec?
15:26 aloha joined #perl6
15:26 masak it has a test suite, at least.
15:27 masak hoelzro: the "haz spec" thing is also unlike Perl 5, where the implementation is the spec. at some point there were several impls of Perl 5 (cf. oraperl), and it was very painful.
15:27 masak that was Perl 4, even, I think.
15:27 moritz though last I looked, ruby's test suite was orders of magnitude smaller than roast
15:27 * masak must be careful not to call all pre-Perl 6 Perl versions "Perl 5" :)
15:28 masak hoelzro: if I'm not completely wrong, Perlito targets more things than JavaScript.
15:28 hoelzro oh, really?
15:28 hoelzro I could always walk over to Flavio's desk and ask him =)
15:28 * tadzik is amused with https://gist.github.com/4205148
15:28 * moritz thinks masak isn't completely wrong
15:29 moritz I think there's a perl5 backend too
15:30 masak hoelzro: there's lots more to say about nqp, I think. first, it got new, better support. then it got 6model. then it got newer, betterer grammar support.
15:30 hoelzro masak: I wanted to talk about NQP more, but I unfortunately don't know that much about it
15:30 PerlJam hoelzro: you could also mention that Rakudo has been shifting to target just NQP and that NQP primarily targets Parrot, but there is the possiblity of other back ends there too.
15:30 masak tadzik: cool!
15:30 tadzik so now if I convince LWP::Simple to use a fake IO::Socket::INET I can make it non-blocking
15:30 masak hoelzro: talking about the grammar engine and 6model as important parts of nqp is a good start, I belive.
15:30 tadzik and marry it to MuEvent
15:31 masak tadzik: \o/
15:31 tadzik and we'll have something _a lot_ better than Perl 5
15:31 PerlJam tadzik: I don't know ... Perl 5 has options.
15:31 tadzik reminder: AnyEvent::HTTP is a 1500-line-long file which reimplements LWP
15:31 masak hoelzro: the explanation of the name "roast" is that TimToady wanted to be able to tab-complete on the name, so we couldn't have both "specs" and "spectests" folders. :)
15:32 tadzik :D
15:32 hoelzro oh, good to know!
15:32 moritz and the other is that we're not only spectesting, but also regression-testing
15:32 moritz so we're roasting the implementations, and see what remains :-)
15:32 masak hoelzro: yes, STD is canonical. we're also at the end of the "age of STD", it seems, where implementations are catching up and STD is getting less relevant with each day. it starts to hurt more and more that it *only* does parsing.
15:33 masak there were a lot of silly backronyms for "roast", I think. none of them very good.
15:34 jnthn It gives the implementations a good roasting, to make sure they aren't half-baked :P
15:34 PerlJam masak: "age of STD" makes me think a Tolkienesque history of Perl 6 is in order at some point  :)
15:35 masak PerlJam: well, I did write https://gist.github.com/2649172 about half a year ago... :)
15:35 masak I was informed the ending didn't feel complete. I can only agree! ;)
15:36 PerlJam masak++  :-)
15:36 tadzik ===SORRY!===
15:36 tadzik Found a version control conflict marker at line 15, near " Updated u"
15:36 tadzik whoever wrote that: this is freaking awesome
15:36 tadzik my face: "HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT"
15:37 PerlJam heh
15:37 masak tadzik: :D
15:37 moritz we stole that idea from the 'clang' compiler
15:37 masak tadzik: you might be the first one that actually triggered that in a non-testing setting.
15:38 jnthn :)
15:38 jnthn I nabbed it from STD when updating the vws rule while putting in heredocs.
15:39 moritz masak: I've triggered it too
15:39 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
15:39 felher how cool :D
15:39 masak moritz: I should've known ;)
15:44 kaare_ joined #perl6
15:45 tadzik r: out $variable;
15:45 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $variable is not declared␤at /tmp/yMHtVW2Fd2:1␤»
15:45 tadzik confusing error message for mistyped our :)
15:45 masak tadzik: what would you have liked to have seen?
15:45 tadzik masak: I was afraid of that question :)
15:46 masak tadzik: remember that it's possible to post-declare a subroutine &out
15:46 tadzik yeah, I know that
15:46 tadzik I don't think it's possible to make it better and keep it sane
15:46 tadzik whose LWP::Simple is working these days?
15:46 tadzik (if any)
15:48 PerlJam The error message could say something like "Perhaps you mistyped the declarator as 'out'?"
15:48 PerlJam (and maybe even give a list of valid declarators)
15:48 masak PerlJam: what if I mistyped it as 'saay'? :P
15:49 PerlJam masak: Perhaps you mystyped the declarator as 'saay'?   :-)
15:50 masak :P
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15:52 smash japhb: no objections
15:53 pnu joined #perl6
15:55 japhb *yawn*
15:55 japhb smash, thank you
16:13 cedrvint masak++ # https://gist.github.com/2649172https://gist.github.com/2649172
16:15 tadzik oh, this is nice :)
16:15 tadzik saw it coming, but it's heartwarming somewhat :)
16:15 wamba joined #perl6
16:16 tadzik meanwhile, I think I get this: https://gist.github.com/4205696
16:17 tadzik this is exciting :)
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16:19 AndChat|356841 hi pals
16:19 tadzik hi AndChat|356841
16:21 masak tadzik++ # new shiny tech
16:21 tadzik this is awesome! :)
16:23 jnthn tadzik++
16:25 * tadzik struggles to port Coro
16:26 tadzik https://gist.github.com/4205805
16:26 tadzik now, ain't that something :)
16:26 FROGGS__ new shiny tech? do I need to read backlog?
16:26 tadzik just the last gist :)
16:27 tadzik this isn't Coro-compatible, as Perl 5 Coro uses only cede, which works differently when in an async routine or outside it
16:27 tadzik which could be hacked up :)
16:28 tadzik I don't like the name "cede" though
16:28 FROGGS__ cool
16:29 hoelzro tadzik: yield?
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16:29 awwaiid_ what hmm perl6 coro? hmmmm
16:30 tadzik hoelzro: yeah, yield is the one inside a coroutine
16:30 hoelzro oh, I see
16:30 tadzik I now renamed it to sched9)
16:30 tadzik ()
16:30 masak tadzik: wow.
16:30 tadzik now it looks like https://gist.github.com/4205836
16:30 masak tadzik: what happens id you cede/sched one time too much?
16:30 tadzik masak: just took care of that
16:30 masak ah :)
16:30 tadzik now, semaphores :>
16:30 PerlJam tadzik++ neat
16:31 masak tadzik: I'm not sure I prefer "sched" to "cede".
16:31 tadzik is "cede" a word?
16:31 masak "sched" is not a complete word.
16:31 masak yes.
16:31 PerlJam yes
16:31 tadzik oh, TIL
16:31 tadzik phenny: "cede"?
16:31 phenny tadzik: "yields" (es to en, translate.google.com)
16:31 masak it's quite similar to "yield", actually.
16:31 tadzik ehehe
16:31 tadzik okay
16:31 masak tadzik: it means "to give up [something]"
16:31 tadzik it's a Polish naive pronounciation of CD too
16:32 masak in this case, to give up the control flow.
16:32 tadzik it would probably be more friendly if yield() would work everywhere
16:32 awwaiid_ aptly used then :)
16:32 flussence call it "pass", to annoy python users :)
16:32 awwaiid_ actually doesn't coro call it cede everywhere?
16:33 tadzik it does
16:33 tadzik flussence: ahahahaa
16:33 tadzik cannot... resist...
16:33 jnthn Is it possible to yield a value?
16:34 flussence .oO( wouldn't that be gather/take? )
16:34 tadzik can be made so
16:34 jnthn :)
16:34 tadzik flussence: that's the whole joke
16:34 tadzik it's just sugar
16:34 jnthn hah, if you call it pass then the documentation for doing it with a value can be, like
16:34 jnthn pass 'wind';
16:34 jnthn :P
16:34 tadzik which amuses me a lot
16:34 tadzik and thanks to jnthn I just found something that amuses me more :D
16:34 flussence I'm slow today, must be the cold :)
16:35 masak so... you'd do "my $value = pass;" ?
16:35 [Coke] r: https://gist.github.com/4205836
16:35 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/gSRP3lUTXz:1␤»
16:35 masak or "my $value = cede;" ?
16:35 [Coke] ah, of course nyou are.
16:37 jnthn Seems I'm doing today's advent blog post :)
16:37 jnthn er
16:37 jnthn tomorrow's
16:37 jnthn but should write it today :)
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16:43 tadzik hm. Any idea how to write a sub that reacts differently when called from inside another sub?
16:43 tadzik (the pass case)
16:45 PerlJam switch on callframe results?
16:46 tadzik yeah, I'm looking into it
16:46 tadzik it fell odd tho, like "I shouldn't have to do this"
16:46 tadzik or maybe I should :)
16:48 awwaiid_ with perl5 coro, I had to create a return value stack when implementing Coro::Generator, which implements a $my $new_arg_value = yeild($retval)
16:48 daniel-s joined #perl6
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16:52 pmurias japhb: re v6.pbc I have no idea what that is
16:53 pmurias hmm, maybe there is a 'use v6' somewhere?
16:53 benabik joined #perl6
16:54 pmurias japhb: where do you have your nqp from?
16:55 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
16:56 tadzik aww, pass() conflicts with Test.pm :(
16:58 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
16:58 pmurias tadzik: called from an inside a routine you could use a dynamic variable for that
16:59 tadzik pmurias: nah, that doesn't quite work :|
16:59 tadzik when the control flow jumps because of take, the dynamic variable reamins
17:00 * felher officially likes gather/take :)
17:01 felher And therefore very much looks forward to tadzik post :)
17:01 pmurias tadzik: if you jump out of a routine caller won't work either
17:02 tadzik I'm beginning to realise that :|
17:04 tadzik I'll do it the easy way and maybe someone will come up with Magic later on
17:09 masak maybe you can save caller information in a dynamic variable somehow.
17:09 pmurias japhb: I try building nqp-js with the HEAD nqp maybe that will help
17:09 masak tadzik: there's something to be said for keeping the old names of routines in Coro. some people will probably find them familiar.
17:11 tadzik masak: well, I even named it Coroutines rather than Coro, not confusing people being one of the reasons
17:11 masak just suggesting that keeping names might also be a good thing. your decision.
17:11 tadzik now neither of the available subs does the same as cede(), so I don't think it should be named cede()
17:12 tadzik when I get the unified yield()/schedule() I'll consider it
17:13 tadzik now I see that Coro used yield() in the early days, but in 0.1 Damian suggested cede() as a replacement
17:14 tadzik I wonder what was the rationale
17:14 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
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17:17 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
17:18 masak maybe because "yield" has the wrong connotations based on how it's used in other programming languages?
17:19 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
17:21 tadzik no eye deer
17:21 dalek ecosystem: 9790784 | tadzik++ | SHELTER/ (2 files):
17:21 dalek ecosystem: Remove dead modules from the SHELTER
17:21 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/9790784879
17:21 dalek ecosystem: 18679a9 | tadzik++ | META.list:
17:21 dalek ecosystem: Add Coroutines
17:21 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/18679a905c
17:21 tadzik there we go :)
17:22 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
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17:37 moritz tadzik++
17:38 masak tadzik: so, you plan to have both Coro.pm and Coroutines.pm, and keep them in sync?
17:38 tadzik masak: I don't know yet
17:38 masak :)
17:38 tadzik Coro-the-real-Coro looks like a lot of work:)
17:38 tadzik see also: MuEvent, Bailador
17:39 masak I'm just wary of API duplication that ends up causing more work for the API developer.
17:40 japhb pmurias, `which nqp` shows that I was using the one built last time I rebuilt Rakudo.  "This is nqp version 2012.11.1 build on parrot 4.10.0 revision RELEASE_4_10_0"
17:40 masak also, Coro::still_going and Coro::done look suspiciously like enums to me.
17:40 masak tadzik: have you considered making them enums? :)
17:40 tadzik masak: I did :)
17:40 tadzik I just never remember syntax for enums
17:40 tadzik so "I'll do that later"
17:40 masak uh.
17:40 tadzik feel free to pull-request me :)
17:40 masak "remember the syntax"? :)
17:41 tadzik yes, I'm serious :)
17:41 geekosaur joined #perl6
17:41 masak r: enum CoroStatus <still_going done>; say still_going === done
17:41 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:41 masak tadzik: I'm still on $dayjob stuffs, otherwise I would so pull-request you right now... :)
17:43 popl joined #perl6
17:43 tadzik ;)
17:44 tadzik I should probably leave this and start learning from tomorrows' exam anyway
17:45 masak lol, Flash was originally known as "FutureSplash" :P
17:46 moritz .oO( The Programming System Formernly Known As FutureSplash )
17:46 masak couldn't they have kept that name, and Flash would've died off much sooner?
17:58 sergot hi! o/
17:59 tadzik hi hi
18:01 fgomez joined #perl6
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18:13 masak sergocie! \o/
18:21 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:25 sergot \o/
18:25 sergot masaku ! ;]
18:26 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:27 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:28 tadzik sergot: are http://feather.perl6.nl/~sergot/modules/ cronjobs running?
18:28 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:30 sergot tadzik: no, something is wrong with perl6 on feather.
18:31 sergot there's no needed libs
18:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: 84b1aa1 | coke++ | / (2 files):
18:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/84b1aa1509
18:37 tadzik hm, odd
18:37 tadzik sergot: anything specific?
18:42 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:43 sergot tadzik: Dont remember I'm updating it manually now.
18:43 sergot JSON::Tiny iirc
18:47 Kharec joined #perl6
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18:51 FROGGS_ damnit, this modules-storage thingy is le crap -.-
18:52 spider-mario joined #perl6
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18:53 tadzik modules-storage
18:53 tadzik ?
18:58 spider-mario joined #perl6
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19:12 FROGGS ya, how to store modules (packages) on disk
19:14 masak FROGGS: not sure what you mean. Ctrl+S?
19:14 FROGGS ctrs+s?
19:15 FROGGS I'm talking about S11/Versioning
19:15 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:15 masak ah.
19:15 FROGGS if you made a module, you have to supply the modules name, the author (as mail address for example) and the version
19:16 masak surely you don't *have* to...
19:16 FROGGS the modules name is unicode, the author can be everything (web address like github, a CPAN id, ...)
19:16 tadzik well, almost nobody does it so far :>
19:16 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:16 tadzik let's keep it in sqlite :>
19:16 FROGGS masak: according to S11 you have to supply an author
19:17 tadzik I appear to be doing evil grins :>
19:17 FROGGS ;o)
19:17 FROGGS ya, you need something like a database to get the modules path, since the path cant handle these information
19:18 masak FROGGS: no, S11 says modules posted on CPAN or entered into any standard Perl 6 library must.
19:18 FROGGS but thats not ideal, since sometimes you install a binary, and want to put it in PATH
19:18 tadzik easy
19:18 tadzik we'll use FUSE
19:18 masak FROGGS: the difference is important because there might be modules on disk which you might want to use but which didn't come from CPAN or some standard Perl 6 library.
19:18 FROGGS masak: of course, thats true
19:18 FROGGS FUSE?
19:19 tadzik Filesystem in Userspace
19:19 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:19 tadzik we'll write a perl6 program that pretents to be a file system
19:19 tadzik so when you ask for File/Find.pm it'll wonder what you mean by that, and supply different things based on other sources of information
19:20 tadzik or... (and this time seriously)
19:21 tadzik this File/Find.pm is not a real File/Find.pm but something that a module installer generated. It looks at the author you wanted, or version, and then knows where to look for them
19:21 tadzik so the module itself cares, not the loading mechanism
19:21 tadzik and modules aren't real, they're sort of proxies then
19:21 FROGGS I wonder how that should work
19:23 FROGGS example from S11: use Dog:auth({ .substr(0,5) eq 'cpan:'}):ver(Any);
19:23 tadzik ewww
19:23 FROGGS the easiest thing would be to have an index file/database that you can search for stuff like that
19:24 FROGGS and the real path to the module files (or its share dir) is then maybe like: lib/perl6/rakudo-1.0/Dog/cpan_JTPALMER/1.3.4/...
19:25 FROGGS it will be "Dog" on the disk even if the module's name is "Dóg" or so
19:25 FROGGS just that we can be sure it will be stored and it looks similar to the real module
19:25 FROGGS .. or package or dist or whatever
19:26 masak so we'll need a complete strategy for ASCIIfying module names.
19:26 GlitchMr How can I slurp binary data?
19:26 masak GlitchMr: the :bin argument on various I/O methods.
19:27 FROGGS maybe its just a single dirname for the module, like Dog-cpan_JTPALMER-1.3.4-h876h8h6 <-- last is some sort of unique id
19:27 masak .open has it, I know. maybe .slurp, too.
19:27 FROGGS masak: ASCIIfying is easy IMO
19:27 masak FROGGS: how do you ASCIIfy 你好?
19:27 tadzik Dóg :)
19:27 FROGGS whats its unicode name?
19:28 [Coke] masak;there's a module for that.
19:28 masak .u 你好
19:28 phenny U+4F60 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4F60 (你)
19:28 phenny U+597D CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-597D (好)
19:28 GlitchMr Unidecode
19:28 GlitchMr http://duckduckgo.com/?q=unidecode+%E4%BD%A0%E5%A5%BD
19:28 masak ok, as long as it's a solved problem.
19:28 FROGGS hmmm
19:28 masak I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here as best I can.
19:28 [Coke] http://search.cpan.org/~sburke/Text-Unidecode-0.04/lib/Text/Unidecode.pm
19:28 FROGGS okay, chinese or what it is is a bit hard
19:28 FROGGS .u ó
19:28 phenny UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xf3 in position 0: unexpected end of data (file "/usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode)
19:28 masak I want us to end up with a sane module handling. the less complexity, the better.
19:28 tadzik .u ó
19:28 phenny U+00F3 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH ACUTE (ó)
19:29 tadzik FROGGS: see, that's how you do this
19:29 masak FROGGS: check your client's encoding.
19:29 FROGGS k
19:29 FROGGS so ó would be a small o
19:29 masak we hug trolls, but we dislike people who can't play by utf8 rules :)
19:29 tadzik this should be named U+00F3 U KRESKOWANE
19:29 GlitchMr It's not ACUTE
19:29 GlitchMr ... or perhaps it is
19:30 [Coke] masak: so, "NiHao"
19:30 GlitchMr Well, sadly unicode doesn't have O WITH KRESKA character
19:30 masak oh, you cute Polish people.
19:30 popl that is an obtuse observation
19:30 GlitchMr But ś should be S WITH KRESKA
19:30 GlitchMr .u ś
19:30 phenny U+015B LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH ACUTE (ś)
19:30 masak [Coke]: oh, it actually does that? impressive.
19:30 GlitchMr Unicode actually thinks that ACUTE is identical to KRESKA. It isn't.
19:31 FROGGS okay, ASCIIfying is a problem then too
19:31 [Coke] masak: that module is super awesome, yes.
19:31 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:33 [Coke] eval: use Text::Unidecode;
19:33 buubot_backup [Coke]: ERROR: Can't locate Text/Unidecode.pm in @INC (@INC contains:) at (eval 20) line 1. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at (eval 20) line 1.
19:34 FROGGS k, writing that on my list ;o)
19:36 sorear good * #perl6
19:36 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:36 colomon \o
19:36 SmokeMac_ joined #perl6
19:36 masak sorear! \o/
19:36 masak colomon! \o/
19:37 colomon masak!  \o/
19:38 mjreed joined #perl6
19:38 masak ________!   \o/
19:38 sorear mjreed! \o/
19:39 * masak .oO( if you flip the IRC backlog quickly, it'll look like the o/ person is moving to the right... )
19:41 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:46 FROGGS hehe
19:47 FROGGS masak: I am searching for the sanest module storing/loading mechanism there is, best would be to reduce the spec a bit ;o)
19:48 tadzik if we're in dead point, we should try TDD maybe :)
19:48 tadzik starting from small things, those "small steps" thingy we did in Oslo
19:48 FROGGS so for now, I trying to figure out what would be needed to do everything the spec tells
19:48 masak tadzik: yes, that's why I suggested the other day that we prototype this.
19:49 FROGGS ya, if I dont have anything within the next days...
19:49 masak tadzik: then we could play around with tests and requirements without being encumbered by an implementation.
19:49 FROGGS masak: thats why I make some sort of test suite
19:50 GlitchMr http://www.perlcabal.org:1337/
19:50 GlitchMr December Wiki :-)
19:50 tadzik GlitchMr: is that written in Perl 6?
19:50 GlitchMr Yes
19:51 tadzik the speed looks like it is :P
19:51 tadzik awesome :) GlitchMr++
19:51 tadzik now show the code :)
19:51 GlitchMr Sure
19:51 GlitchMr I'll upload it to GitHub soon
19:51 masak GlitchMr: nice :)
19:51 PerlJam GlitchMr: git-backed?
19:51 GlitchMr Yes
19:51 masak GlitchMr: may I suggest you use ISO dates rather than SHA-1s for the revision numbers? :)
19:52 GlitchMr I will do it
19:52 GlitchMr Currently I'm trying to implement basic functionality
19:52 masak aye.
19:52 masak just stood out as a simple improvement.
19:54 masak speaking of nothing, what's the most malign thing that can be done with a page that accepts arbitrary HTML? :>
19:54 masak I'm thinking things like XSS attacks...
19:55 GlitchMr I know that you currently can use any HTML
19:55 GlitchMr I don't have any language like MarkDown or HTML filter yet
19:56 * masak adds a link to his blog
19:57 GlitchMr https://github.com/GlitchMr/December
19:57 GlitchMr Enjoy
19:57 flussence "arbitrary HTML" includes arbitrary webgl code, which is a bit too close to root-privileged drivers for comfort...
19:57 tadzik yeah!
19:57 masak anyway, mad props to GlitchMr for this.
19:57 GlitchMr It'
19:57 GlitchMr It's very early
19:57 GlitchMr I plan adding more features
19:57 masak imagine if it had been this easy to make a wiki engine back in 2008 :)
19:58 flussence .oO( is the next wiki going to be called "Smarch"? :)
19:58 GlitchMr No, January ;-)
19:58 tadzik hehe. It's ~80 lines of code
19:59 GlitchMr But it works... somehow
19:59 GlitchMr moritz has proposed December as name and I liked it.
19:59 GlitchMr http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-12-02#i_6204609
20:00 GlitchMr Why? Because it's 1) November++ 2) It was December
20:00 masak oh, was that a proposal? I thought moritz cheered an already decided name :)
20:00 tadzik :D
20:00 GlitchMr Nope. It had lame name before that
20:00 GlitchMr But I like December
20:01 tadzik let's move the existing wiki to this wiki by the end of December
20:01 tadzik er, by the end of december :)
20:01 colomon Sorry to interrupt from GlitchMr++'s triumph, but does anyone have a quick way of making Rakudo accept non-UTF-8 files?  Or converting a non-UTF-8 file to UTF-8?  A "Malformed UTF-8 string" error from Rakudo is interfering with my $work....
20:01 GlitchMr Well, the problem is it's slow
20:01 tadzik you can always profile it :)
20:02 GlitchMr Yeah, I also have problems with UTF-8
20:02 GlitchMr Probably if somebody would inject invalid UTF-8 on my site, it would explode
20:02 tadzik I'm confused with the Watching/Starring on github recently
20:03 masak colomon: there's a tool called 'iconv'
20:03 GlitchMr I just wanted a simple web app that actually would work
20:03 tadzik this is great
20:04 tadzik and is the best thing created with Bailador so far (that I know of)
20:05 GlitchMr I had to actually modify Bailador to listen on public IP. By default, Bailador websites are only available locally.
20:05 GlitchMr 0.0.0.0 is only available locally
20:05 GlitchMr I have changed that to 0 and it works
20:05 tadzik pull request!
20:05 tadzik btw, I commented on the last one you sent
20:06 flussence 0.0.0.0 means "bind to any address"... that should have worked.
20:06 GlitchMr Yeah, that pull request is needed to for redirects to work on my Wiki. But I don't know how to make a test case.
20:06 colomon masak++ # that seems to have done the trick, though the example command line I grabbed from saying "man iconv" in google didn't actually work in my machine's iconv.
20:07 tadzik GlitchMr: I guess it'll be something with inspecting Bailador::Response
20:07 tadzik or nos
20:07 tadzik * not
20:07 tadzik or yes
20:07 tadzik yeah, obtain B::Response, check if .psgi is valid
20:08 tadzik I can do that tomorrow evening
20:08 GlitchMr Currently I'm trying to make Wiki more awesome
20:08 GlitchMr Now to fix security issues
20:09 tadzik a safe git wrapper would be nice
20:09 tadzik as a separate project, probably
20:09 PerlJam tadzik: funny enough, I was just contemplating writing a Perl 6 version of Git::Wrapper :)
20:09 tadzik (:
20:09 GlitchMr This wiki will use it after it will be completed
20:10 GlitchMr Currently, I'm using lame escaping that only works in sh, really
20:10 fgomez joined #perl6
20:10 GlitchMr By the way, I've tried using run(), but it seems to cause SIGSEGV... looks I'll have to look into my code, because I was the one that has added run() to Perl 6.
20:11 tadzik and looks like we need spectests :)
20:13 GlitchMr perl6: say '<>&lamest>html&&escaper'.trans: '<>&' => <&lt; &gt; &amp;>
20:13 p6eval rakudo e2f2dc, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«&lt;&gt;&amp;lamest&gt;html&amp;&amp;escaper␤»
20:13 GlitchMr Seems to work... somehow
20:14 tadzik don't we have urlencoder and decoder?
20:15 tadzik oh, that's not the same thing
20:15 flussence that's a bit harder :)
20:15 GlitchMr URI::Escape is not work HTML
20:15 tadzik yeah, it's a different stuff
20:15 GlitchMr .trans: '<>&"' => <&lt; &gt; &amp; &quot;>
20:15 tadzik html-entities, or something?
20:15 GlitchMr Well, it's PHP quality...
20:15 GlitchMr But still
20:16 flussence it's not quite PHP-quality, you need to explicitly specify the string encoding there :)
20:20 GlitchMr http://www.perlcabal.org:1337/%3Cb%3E
20:20 GlitchMr ok, no XSS tehre
20:20 GlitchMr Now only XSS is in articles themselves
20:20 GlitchMr That could be more difficult
20:21 GlitchMr uri_escape html <b>
20:21 GlitchMr oops lol
20:32 GlitchMr ok, logs on December now should show time
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20:37 GlitchMr https://gist.github.com/4208417
20:37 GlitchMr But perhaps performance isn't that bad
20:37 GlitchMr 0.8s for main page
20:38 masak at some point, November had 9s for the main page.
20:40 GlitchMr 0.8s is acceptable for me
20:40 GlitchMr But logs for main page are REALLY slow
20:40 GlitchMr well whatever
20:41 GlitchMr It's possibly git
20:41 GlitchMr 10 seconds
20:41 GlitchMr Actually, I should check it myself
20:41 GlitchMr Without Perl 6
20:42 GlitchMr Nope
20:42 GlitchMr 0.013 seconds to run command directly (without Perl 6).
20:43 GlitchMr Perhaps templates are slow
20:43 FROGGS joined #perl6
20:43 tadzik --profile :)
20:44 GlitchMr ok, I'm going to try --profile
20:44 GlitchMr How does --profile work?
20:44 tadzik it generates something that kcachegrind can read
20:44 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:44 GlitchMr oh, ok
20:45 GlitchMr But there is a problem
20:45 GlitchMr It requires me to quit process successfully
20:45 tadzik oh hm
20:45 GlitchMr But whatever, I will add quit command to wiki
20:45 tadzik yep :)
20:46 tadzik it'll probably be the best to profile the logic itself, not going through the web layer
20:52 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:52 GlitchMr Most of time is wasted for templates
20:53 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:54 GlitchMr Around 94% according to KCacheGrind
20:57 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:58 GlitchMr https://gist.github.com/4208577
20:58 GlitchMr Template looks like thsi
20:58 GlitchMr this*
20:58 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:59 GlitchMr How slow is concatenation in Perl 6?
20:59 GlitchMr Because I don't see anything else
20:59 tadzik hm
20:59 tadzik I should implement constant folding in Template::Mojo :)
21:00 flussence GlitchMr: depends on the length of the string, and the runtime...
21:00 tadzik obtw, I'm quite sure Bailador recompiles the template every single time you run it :>
21:00 tadzik sorry for that :)
21:00 GlitchMr I know
21:00 GlitchMr I actually abused that to test templates dynamically
21:00 GlitchMr Without waiting for Perl 6 to load again
21:00 tadzik haha, now I can say that it's a feature
21:01 GlitchMr But seriously, I think it should cache templates
21:01 tadzik it would be a nice thing, yes
21:01 tadzik just checking mtime or such
21:01 GlitchMr I like Bailador :-).
21:02 tadzik :) that's awesome :)
21:02 GlitchMr Also, bye
21:02 tadzik o/
21:05 mj41 joined #perl6
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21:06 spider-mario sorry about all that.
21:06 spider-mario good night o/
21:07 masak (sorry about what?)
21:12 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:14 felher Would someone be so kinds as to give me (felher) a commit bit for perl6-examples?
21:15 masak I can't, but I think moritz can.
21:16 felher Hm, maybe I already have that, even though github says 'read-only acces'
21:16 felher But github says that regarding the specs, too. And I can commit to them.
21:16 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
21:17 * felher will try later and then scream very loud here if it doesn't work :)
21:34 moritz felher: according to github, you already have commit access
21:35 felher moritz: great. Thanks :)
21:46 skids .oO(Re coros most API's allow the yield/cede to pass a value back as the return value of the re-call/sched.  Lua allows the values to be passed both ways.  This one of their most useful aspects.)
21:49 jnthn yay, blog post just about ready to publish
21:49 jnthn (for advent)
21:51 dalek nqp-rx: c89a5b9 | rurban++ | t/nqp/67-threads.t:
21:51 dalek nqp-rx: import t/nqp/67-threads.t from parrot.git
21:51 dalek nqp-rx:
21:51 dalek nqp-rx: requires a threaded parrot
21:51 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c89a5b9f7b
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: dceffa4 | jnthn++ | bin/perl6-debug.nqp:
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: Unbust P5Regex debugging.
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: review: https://github.com/jnthn/rakudo-debugger/commit/dceffa430e
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: c6bc494 | jnthn++ | bin/perl6-debug.nqp:
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: Don't step through simple my/our decls.
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger:
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: They don't do anything, they're just declarations, so there's no
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: value in stepping through them one by one. Those that initialize
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: the variable are exempted from this, since they make some kind of
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: assignment or binding, and so are not only declarational.
21:53 dalek rakudo-debugger: review: https://github.com/jnthn/rakudo-debugger/commit/c6bc494db5
22:01 jnthn Post scheduled \o/
22:01 masak \o/
22:01 * masak reads
22:02 masak jnthn: maybe add "Day 5" in the title?
22:03 jnthn ah, didn't notice we're doing that
22:03 masak jnthn: huh -- nice console font.
22:03 jnthn Fixed
22:04 masak jnthn++ # nice post :)
22:04 jnthn Miracles can happen :P
22:04 jnthn I guess scheduling it for dec 5th 00:00 is fine?
22:05 masak I wasn't sure, so I scheduled it for 00:01 :)
22:05 masak s/it/mine/
22:05 jnthn lol, me too :P
22:05 masak (but I still failed, because I didn't push le 'schedule' button) :(
22:06 jnthn I did
22:06 jnthn And it says mine is scheduled :)
22:06 masak then you should be fine.
22:06 jnthn asbra, my advent work here is done.
22:06 jnthn Until the 10th anyways... :)
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22:14 flussence jnthn++
22:15 * flussence tries to procrastinate usefully by handling the spam post queue on this thing...
22:16 masak flussence++
22:18 flussence though if that automated filter count is to be believed, I'm only doing 0.1% of the work :)
22:21 masak 'night, #perl6
22:23 * colomon has had a Grammar::Tracer trace running for an hour and a half now...
22:23 hash_table joined #perl6
22:23 [Coke] urk.
22:45 erkan joined #perl6
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22:59 dalek perl6-examples: 31c1f20 | (Felix Herrmann)++ | euler/prob014-felher.pl:
22:59 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] add solution for problem 14
22:59 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/31c1f20d2f
23:23 dalek perl6-examples: a0aedbd | (Felix Herrmann)++ | euler/prob015-felher.pl:
23:23 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] add solution for problem 15 (just arithmetic, nothing cool here)
23:23 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/a0aedbdda0
23:23 japhb phenny, tell GlitchMr Regarding SIGSEGV from run(), see Rakudo bug #115390 -- in my bench script, I've had to convert loops with multiple run() calls to multiple loops with only one run() call each (as the last statement in the loop block).
23:23 phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when GlitchMr is around.
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23:45 dalek perl6-examples: 8c04c1c | (Felix Herrmann)++ | euler/prob017-duff.pl:
23:45 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] make solution 17 from duff++ work with current task description
23:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/8c04c1cba5
23:48 rurban left #perl6

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