Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-12-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:14 masak 'night, #perl6
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00:18 lue good knight, masak o/
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03:42 rurban_ I've got a npq thinko whats wrong here? https://gist.github.com/4221616
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03:48 moritz rurban_: is that parrot's nqp or the separate nqp?
03:49 moritz nqp: my %config := pir::getinterp__P()[pir::co​nst::IGLOBALS_CONFIG_HASH];
03:49 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
03:49 moritz rurban_: parrot's NQP doesn't know about pir::const::
03:49 rurban_ thats parrot-nap but I want to add an icu check to both
03:49 moritz resleep&
03:49 rurban_ oh, the const, thanks
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: 7b25e64 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: Extract microbenchmark list out of timeall into new microbenchmarks.pl file
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/7b25e64384
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: 3353a9e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | timeall:
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: Expand explanation of simple and complex tasks in timeall docs
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/3353a9e1d4
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: 1ca70d1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (3 files):
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: Add --list-variants option to timeall to list all known compiler variants; document that timeall can select only individual variants to benchmark; support a --variants option to the time command in bench to select which variants timeall should benchmark
04:07 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/1ca70d1a12
04:13 dalek perl6-bench: 53b90a4 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
04:13 dalek perl6-bench: Miscellaneous TODO maintenance
04:13 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/53b90a49c2
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05:04 dalek perl6-examples: c16adc3 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/prob-grondilu.pl:
05:04 dalek perl6-examples: [rosalind] PROB
05:04 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/c16adc3b11
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05:24 dalek perl6-examples: d224698 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/pper-grondilu.pl:
05:24 dalek perl6-examples: [rosalind] PPER
05:24 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/d224698684
05:36 dalek perl6-bench: 2a3c51b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
05:36 dalek perl6-bench: Expand out TODO list for perl6/bench-scripts import, so I can do them piecemeal
05:36 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/2a3c51b71b
05:36 dalek perl6-bench: 317447f | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
05:36 dalek perl6-bench: Add options to allow listing all known test names, and to enable only a subset of the tests
05:36 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/317447f974
05:38 dalek perl6-bench: 079464a | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
05:38 dalek perl6-bench: Completed TODO bit
05:38 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/079464ae95
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06:14 dalek perl6-examples: fc32a50 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/tran-grondilu.pl:
06:14 dalek perl6-examples: [rosalind] TRAN
06:14 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/fc32a50a4a
06:16 grondilu_ rn: say all(<A G>) eq any(<A G>);
06:17 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«all(any(Bool::True, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::True))␤»
06:17 p6eval ..rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«all(any(True, False), any(False, True))␤»
06:17 grondilu_ rn: say so all(<A G>) eq any(<A G>);
06:17 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
06:17 grondilu_ rn: say so any(<A G>) eq all(<A G>);
06:17 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«False␤»
06:17 p6eval ..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
06:18 grondilu_ That could be an interesting use case of non commutativity for boolean operators with junctions
06:19 grondilu_ From rosalind.info/problems/tran:
06:19 grondilu_ « A transition substitutes one purine for another (A↔G) or one pyrimidine for another (C↔T) »
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06:22 grondilu_ rn: sub is-a-transition($a, $b) { say $a ne $b and ($a & $b eq any <A G> or $a & $b eq any <C T>) }; say "that's a transition" if is-a-transition <C T>;
06:22 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in sub is-a-transition at /tmp/tSCsSTqaV6:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tSCsSTqaV6:1␤␤»
06:22 p6eval ..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter '$b' in 'is-a-transition'␤  at /tmp/BaBQ_lqspR line 0 (is-a-transition @ 1) ␤  at /tmp/BaBQ_lqspR line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4208 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib…
06:22 grondilu_ rn: sub is-a-transition($a, $b) { say $a ne $b and ($a & $b eq any <A G> or $a & $b eq any <C T>) }; say "that's a transition" if is-a-transition |<C T>;
06:22 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤that's a transition␤»
06:27 dalek perl6-examples: d282fbb | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/tran-grondilu.pl:
06:27 dalek perl6-examples: [rosalind] TRAN (simpler version)
06:27 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/d282fbbfa7
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07:45 grondilu_ rn: sub infix:<m*> { reduce $^a % 10 * $^b }; say ([\m*] 1 .. *)[^10];
07:45 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '&with'; expected Callable but got Int instead␤  in sub reduce at src/gen/CORE.setting:6083␤  in sub infix:<m*> at /tmp/rTX2_PSseI:1␤  in block  at src/gen/CORE.setting:12408␤  in sub coro at src/gen/CORE.setting:5630␤  in me…
07:45 p6eval ..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1287 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 294 (Any.Numeric @ 8) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/6y6_H8Tq4k line 1 (infix:<…
07:45 grondilu_ rn: sub infix:<m*> { $^a % 10 * $^b }; say ([\m*] 1 .. *)[^10];
07:45 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«1 2 6 24 20 0 0 0 0 0␤»
07:46 grondilu_ oh yeah, my bad
07:51 moritz \o morning
07:52 sorear o/ moritz
07:59 grondilu_ isn't there a builtin for combination?
08:00 grondilu r: say comb 2, 3;
08:00 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'comb' will never work with argument types (Int, Int) (line 1)␤    Expected any of:␤    :(Regex $matcher, Cool $input, $limit = { ... })␤»
08:04 moritz grondilu: what do you want to combine?
08:05 moritz r: say ^2 X~ ^3
08:05 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«00 01 02 10 11 12␤»
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08:20 FROGGS morning
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08:25 tadzik good morning
08:26 jnthn morning
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08:44 bbkr_ good morning
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08:54 kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
08:57 grondilu moritz: I meant binomial coefficient
08:57 dalek perl6-examples: 301dfa9 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/aspc-grondilu.pl:
08:57 dalek perl6-examples: [rosaling] ASPC
08:57 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/301dfa955d
08:58 moritz grondilu: that's not built-in
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09:00 dalek perl6-examples: 85f27f2 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/aspc-grondilu.pl:
09:00 dalek perl6-examples: [rosalind] ASPC, slightly shorter
09:00 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/85f27f26d5
09:03 jnthn Pro Tip: if explaining a bug fix to somebody by walking through a diff, and you're in a dev shop where people aren't used to looking a textual diffs, make sure they actually know that's what it is!
09:03 jnthn *at
09:03 huf :))))
09:04 jnthn The things one takes for granted... :)
09:04 Krunch "a dev shop where people aren't used to looking a textual diffs"
09:04 Krunch wat?
09:04 jnthn Yes. I know. :(
09:05 Krunch get out of here, it's still time
09:05 jnthn .Net shop using TFS, which is openly hostile to providing such things
09:05 Krunch s/h/th/
09:05 jnthn So I shove git in front of it so I can actually get useful stuff done.
09:05 jnthn Like, code review.
09:06 huf TFS? the only thing i can expand that to is not .. polite
09:06 jnthn How the heck Microsoft thought making it so hard to get an easy to review diff out rather than having to click around to look at it one file at a time, I don't know...
09:06 jnthn That F**king System^W^W^WTeam Foundation System
09:06 huf ah.
09:06 jnthn I hate it.
09:07 huf i'll add it to the "run if you see it" list
09:07 jnthn Yes, do
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09:19 bonsaikitten isn't any product from Microsoft automatically tagged like that?
09:20 bonsaikitten (and their best acronym by far was WIX, which translates roughly as WANK from german)
09:20 tadzik well, C# is quite nice
09:21 jnthn Aye. The Visual Studio debugger is also very nice
09:22 tadzik yeah, it's not bad
09:22 tadzik I only touched it a little during my Windows Forms uni project
09:22 tadzik didn't have time to learn it properly, so I did the same thing that I did with Java
09:23 bonsaikitten tadzik: java++ ... what you'd expect with a decade of experience from java
09:24 tadzik well, when I had to write a Java project I just wrote C++ untill it stopped compiling, then I looked stuff up
09:24 bonsaikitten I don't like the family of java-ish languages, they have so much redundancy in their redundant redundancy
09:24 tadzik now I was writing Java, and when it was not working I was looking for the C# way ;)
09:25 tadzik but this one has first-class functions, so it's the most pleasant one
09:28 jnthn I once considered C# "just another Java", but then they added type inference and lambdas and lazily evaluated pipelines, then suddenly it was a lot more pleasant.
09:31 bonsaikitten for me it's still a no-go because it doesn't run on any of the platforms I support
09:32 jnthn That's fair enough.
09:34 grondilu bonsaikitten: same here
09:35 bonsaikitten amusingly I still need java and windows ... for taxes
09:35 bonsaikitten someone didn't get the memo, I guess?
09:42 jnthn C# just happens to be really popular here in Sweden. Most of the dev teams I work with at various companies use it.
09:42 jnthn And not because I explicitly seek it out. Typically I'm there to deal with architecture level issues.
09:43 jnthn But knowing the implementation langauge they're using well can't hurt. :)
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09:47 bonsaikitten I've mostly been exposed to people trying to use php
09:47 bonsaikitten and lately ruby, but that's self-correcting
09:50 sorear jnthn: $dayjob just assigned me to a C# project :D
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09:51 * FROGGS is forced to do Visual Basic for Applications from time to time -.-
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09:58 jnthn sorear: nice :)
10:09 * moritz has a new PC at $work
10:09 moritz old one was single core, 4GB mem
10:09 moritz new: quad core, 8GB RAM
10:09 jnthn Better. :)
10:09 moritz indeed :-)
10:09 moritz much better suited for rakudo spectests in its idle time :-)
10:10 jnthn ;-)
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10:16 grondilu Any one would like to help debugging this newick parser?  https://gist.github.com/4223474
10:17 grondilu I get nothing and I expected the two lines ending in ';' to be outputed
10:18 dalek specs: 568fe53 | (Konrad Borowski)++ | S04-control.pod:
10:18 dalek specs: Use .is-prime.
10:18 dalek specs:
10:18 dalek specs: Today, we have .is-prime method.
10:18 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/568fe53d5f
10:19 grondilu nr: https://gist.github.com/4223474
10:19 jnthn grondilu: There's always stepping through it with le debuffer
10:19 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb:  ( no output )
10:20 jnthn *bugger
10:20 FROGGS grondilu: the node can contain itself?
10:20 grondilu yeah it's supposed to be recursive
10:21 grondilu because sthg like   '(dog,(mouse,rabbit));' should parse
10:23 jnthn Is it a precedence issue
10:23 jnthn ?
10:23 jnthn Should
10:23 jnthn | '(' ~ ')' <node>+ % ',' <name>
10:23 jnthn be
10:23 jnthn | ['(' ~ ')' <node>+ % ','] <name>
10:23 jnthn perhaps?
10:23 grondilu no change
10:26 jnthn r: my $sample = "a\nb\nc\n"; for $sample.split: "\n" { .say }
10:26 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤␤»
10:27 grondilu I've tried putting '[' ']' almost everywhere to make precedence clearer, but it did not help.
10:29 jnthn guess you already tried token instead of rule too?
10:30 jnthn But don't see why that'd be an issue here
10:31 grondilu damn, it did indeed worked with token
10:31 grondilu I don't understand why
10:32 grondilu nr:  https://gist.github.com/4223474
10:32 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«(cat)dog;␤(dog,cat);␤»
10:33 grondilu I guess I should read again the difference between 'rule' and 'token'
10:34 moritz the difference is <.ws>
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11:12 felher moritz++ # nice advent post 'bout lexical import
11:16 moritz thanks
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11:19 colomon jnthn: https://gist.github.com/4223784
11:20 FROGGS japhb: https://gist.github.com/4223775
11:21 FROGGS @all: my proposal about installing distributions --^   # you can stone me now to death
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11:36 felher btw: who wrote the project euler post?
11:49 moritz felher: gerdr, I think
11:50 felher moritz: yeah, that is at least what the post says. I wasn't sure if he has another nick in this channel, though :)
11:52 moritz felher: gerdr or not_gerd
11:54 felher moritz: ah, not_gerd. Thanks :)
11:54 jnthn colomon: :(
11:54 colomon jnthn: yes, :(
11:54 jnthn colomon: Odd though, it's pbc_to_exe that fails
11:55 jnthn But if you got a Rakudo build you musta successfully invoked that at some point.
11:55 jnthn Is it finding the correct pbc_to_exe?
11:55 colomon no
11:55 jnthn Then that's why
11:55 colomon how the heck did I get a /usr/local/bin/pbc_to_exe?
11:55 jnthn The Makefile isn't very smart.
11:56 colomon geez, they're from 2008
11:56 jnthn wow!
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11:56 colomon wonder if I can safely just erase them?
11:57 colomon (2008 date means they weren't even compiled on this particular computer!)
11:57 * jnthn would guess so
11:58 colomon okay, I have perl6-debug now.  and my computer hasn't blown up yet.
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12:01 moritz \o/
12:02 colomon jnthn: Could not find Debugger::UI::CommandLine in any of:  ?
12:03 jnthn colomon: You need to also put that module (it's in lib) somewhere, and preferably pre-compile it.
12:04 jnthn colomon: Sorry, the installation story for this standalone isn't too great. Most people get it through installing R*.
12:04 jnthn I really should work with tadzik++ to get this pandaable
12:04 jnthn Depends on having Term::ANSIColor installed also
12:06 colomon >>> LOADING bin/step-scan.pl
12:06 colomon >>> LOADING lib/ISO_10303_21/Grammar.pm
12:07 colomon pain in the neck, but I seem to have it functional
12:07 colomon \o/
12:07 colomon now I have to learn how to use it!
12:11 tadzik jnthn: yeah, the case of plugging-in to panda builder somehow
12:11 tadzik I should have a branch or such which tries to implement it, but stumbles upon a rakudobug of sort
12:12 tadzik I don't think I reported that one :/.
12:28 jnthn If it lets us get le debugger installable through Panda I'd probably be quite motivated to fix it :P
12:29 jnthn colomon: Type "help" for a list of the commands :)
12:29 jnthn It tells you all it can do :)
12:29 colomon jnthn: I was just going to go back and look at your Advent post again.  :)
12:31 jnthn That also gives a fairly practical overview.
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13:19 brrt can any polish person help me out here?
13:19 brrt my colleagues suggest that racism is prevalent in poland, and for this reason they want to censor images containing coloured people
13:20 hoelzro http://blog.angryasianman.com/2009/08/ph​otoshop-fail-microsofts-polish-site.html
13:20 brrt is this true?
13:20 brrt oh my god
13:20 brrt it is true
13:20 hoelzro haha
13:20 * hoelzro is not Polish
13:20 tadzik phenny: en pl "prevalent"?
13:21 phenny tadzik: "rozpowszechniony" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
13:21 tadzik oh
13:21 hoelzro well, I'm not from Poland. I'm Polish by ancestry, though
13:21 tadzik well, I don't think I agree
13:21 tadzik (being Polish)
13:21 brrt i cannot imagine
13:21 hoelzro I just remember that example from a while ago =)
13:21 hoelzro and found it pretty funny
13:21 huf i wouldnt censor anything to appease racists
13:21 brrt well, its funny until you are asked to do it
13:21 huf but if poland is anything like hungary, then racism is endemic
13:22 huf and i'd expect less fortunate societies to be more racist
13:22 huf so post-soviet republics are in peril
13:22 tadzik there are hardcore nationalists propagating racism, but it's a minority, and the same kind of people are everywhere
13:22 huf but that's all i know :)
13:22 brrt so
13:22 tadzik I have plenty of black people on my university, nobody cares
13:22 huf tadzik: oh sure, maybe it's not against blacks :)
13:23 tadzik I didn't hear of anything like "censoring images" besides this one stupid microsoft case
13:23 huf in hungary, lots of people are racist againt blacks, but the level of racism is nothing compared to what chinese or the roma get
13:23 huf .. or jews
13:23 tadzik and, tbh, I'm not quite surprised with microsoft move
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13:23 huf yeah, that was really weird
13:23 tadzik it's stupid and funny, but it's all about targeting specific group of people
13:24 tadzik even Cialdini says, that we're more likely to like people which are like us
13:24 tadzik (like like like)
13:24 tadzik if you target an advertisment at housewives, you put a housewife in the advert
13:24 huf well yes
13:24 tadzik if you target white businessmen...
13:25 tadzik I don't think targeting black businessmen in Poland would be economically...
13:25 tadzik phenny: "uzasadione"?
13:25 phenny tadzik: "uzasadione" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
13:25 tadzik very helpful
13:25 tadzik phenny: "uzasadnione"?
13:25 phenny tadzik: "justified" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
13:25 tadzik yes, this
13:25 tadzik ...simply because we have little to none of them
13:26 brrt tadzik, even white businessmen live in a world where people come with all varieties of skin pigmentation
13:26 tadzik of course
13:26 brrt it is bizarre to pretend otherwise, especially in 2012
13:26 tadzik but would you force 4 kinds of skin colours on one ad just for the sake of not being accused of racism?>
13:27 brrt no, i would take natural photos
13:27 brrt as they are
13:27 brrt these people are clearly not polish, either, are they?
13:27 tadzik iow: I'm not surprised that they used 3 white people on the Polish ad, but since they actually photoshoped american ad, well, they're asking for being accused
13:27 a_b_c Hi there, is the ''N' in "s:nth(N)" can be counted from the end? Such as nth(-1)
13:27 brrt if you are an international company and want to present yourself as such
13:27 brrt you better be honest about it
13:28 tadzik I don't disagree that it was a stupid move :)
13:28 huf tadzik: if you're making an ad in polan for poland, sure, leave out the blacks
13:28 tadzik right
13:28 huf but if you're just importing a foreign ad, ... oh come on
13:28 moritz a_b_c: I don't think so
13:29 moritz a_b_c: but you can do (m:g/foo/)[*-1]
13:29 a_b_c thanks
13:31 moritz (:nth is used in lazy evaluation, so you can't count from the back there)
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13:52 grondilu I could ask this to #vim, but do you know how I could have vim recognize a *.pl file as a perl6 file when it starts with 'use v6;'?
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13:53 brrt grondilu, i'd argue you should ask #vim :-) i have no idea
13:53 hoelzro grondilu: I'm trying to improve the Perl 6 support in Vim, so once you figure it out, please let me know!
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14:17 * [Coke] needs moar koohii
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14:37 grondilu panda has been broken for me for a few days now
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14:38 moritz broken in what way?
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14:43 grondilu well, I ran 'boostrap.pl' and I got:  Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/CORE.setting'
14:43 moritz sounds like you have an old version of panda installed already
14:43 moritz in that case, try rebootstrap.pl
14:43 cognominal joined #perl6
14:44 moritz or wipe out the old installation before running bootstrap.pl again
14:44 * grondilu ran rebootstrap.pl
14:44 FROGGS_ joined #perl6
14:44 grondilu seems to work better indeed
14:44 grondilu yet I'm asked to compile /usr/local/src/rakudo/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0-de​vel/languages/perl6/site/lib/JSON/Tiny/Actions.pm
14:45 * grondilu does it
14:45 * grondilu now reruns rebootstrap.pl
14:45 moritz easier to to wipe out the old files than trying to fix it by hand
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15:11 tadzik FROGGS: your gist looks pretty neat
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15:32 grondilu "No object at index 333":  https://gist.github.com/4225358
15:33 grondilu I wonder if I did not screw up my panda installation at some point.
15:33 cognominal joined #perl6
15:35 * jnthn wonders if we shoudln't prepend all of these messages with "Out of date pre-compiled file loaded." or some such.
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15:59 jnthn decommute &
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16:25 kresike bye folks
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17:01 diakopter [Coke]: koohii?
17:02 kurahaupo joined #perl6
17:03 jnthn diakopter: coffee
17:03 jnthn but in jp, I think
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17:04 diakopter moar indeed
17:04 diakopter but the line at starbucks is too long atm
17:04 aloha joined #perl6
17:04 diakopter to leave my computer attended
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17:07 lichtkind Int has a is_prime method?
17:08 FROGGS_ is-prime
17:08 FROGGS_ r: say 7.is-prime
17:08 p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:09 moritz nr: say (1..20).grep: *.is-prime
17:09 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19␤»
17:09 lichtkind cool
17:09 moritz nr: say (2**128 + 1).is-prime
17:10 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:10 moritz anybody knows a Mersenne prime by rote? :-)
17:10 TimToady RC has some
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17:13 TimToady though looks like they're mostly going composites, so the largest one listed is M31
17:13 TimToady ooh, M89
17:15 TimToady M11213
17:16 TimToady in http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Lucas-Lehmer_test
17:16 TimToady M44497
17:16 cosimo_ nr: say (2**89 - 1).is-prime
17:16 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:16 FROGGS_ what are these M-values?
17:16 cosimo_ nr: say (2**11213 - 1).is-prime
17:17 FROGGS_ oic
17:17 cosimo_ ehm... :)
17:17 * cosimo_ hides
17:17 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
17:17 FROGGS_ hehe
17:17 TimToady M524287
17:17 dalek tablets: 1344aa1 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
17:17 dalek tablets: add is-prime to A
17:17 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/1344aa1fb3
17:19 TimToady that's the largest one I've found on RC
17:19 TimToady (by Mathematica)
17:24 pmurias RC?
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17:26 lichtkind moritz do you have any plans for a p6 talk in kreuzberg?
17:27 arnsholt pmurias: RosettaCode, I think
17:33 FROGGS_ lichtkind: whats up in kreutzberg? do you mean gpw2013?
17:33 lichtkind yes
17:33 FROGGS_ k
17:33 lichtkind there its taking place
17:34 lichtkind do i know your swamp?
17:37 Woodi hallo
17:38 lichtkind hai woody
17:39 lichtkind FROGGS: i ment you, did we talk somewhere?
17:39 Woodi I think that we in Poland don't have rasists problems with black ppls. just becouse our history do not give us a way to create it
17:39 lichtkind your so right nigga
17:40 Woodi so anyone sugesting anti-black thingies in Poland makes fail :)
17:43 Woodi but... must say we have some starting base for it :) eg. mentioning someone black-pigmented make sentence shifts into funy matters...
17:44 Woodi but, me thing, no that kind of 'problems' here...
17:45 moritz lichtkind: not yet
17:45 moritz afk
17:46 lichtkind moritz: allright i grapped the oo topic
17:46 lichtkind grabbed
17:46 Woodi on the other hand that ad mentioned above was so, so clearly american political-correct and out of context in europe :)
17:46 FROGGS_ lichtkind: we might talked once between the sessions at the las yapc
17:47 FROGGS_ last*
17:47 FROGGS_ and we are both in $foo #17 iirc
17:49 lichtkind FROGGS: its #16
17:51 FROGGS_ ahh, k
17:52 Woodi to be honest we definitly *have* other problems, bigger probably is 'bad fame' for Jews... anyway, it isn't everyday problem, rather history one...
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18:02 rurban_ day7 advent preview: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=1217
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18:20 lichtkind Woodi yes polans tend to be proud but dont worry its all good :)
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18:25 masak evening, #perl6
18:27 rurban ERROR: Permission to perl6/mu.git denied to rurban.
18:27 rurban - 7 MIME::Base64 - Why encoded strings are better -- rurban
18:27 rurban + 7 MIME::Base64 - On encoded strings -- rurban
18:32 masak rn: sub is-transition($from, $to) { state %t = 'AGGACTTC'.comb; %t{$from} eq $to }; say is-transition 'C', 'T'
18:32 p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:03 FROGGS tadzik: thanks # comment about the gist
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19:05 timotimo moritz: the preformatted code blocks from day 6 reach through the right side of the margin (or into the menu on the right)
19:05 FROGGS phenny: please ask japhb if he has a chance to look at https://gist.github.com/4223775 (comments would be nice :o)
19:05 FROGGS phenny: ask japhb if he has a chance to look at https://gist.github.com/4223775 (comments would be nice :o)
19:06 phenny FROGGS: I'll pass that on when japhb is around.
19:06 FROGGS okay, without please ;o)
19:06 grondilu joined #perl6
19:06 FROGGS phenny++ # anyway
19:10 grondilu rn: say "foo_bar" ~~ / <ident>+ /;
19:10 p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(7) text(foo_bar) pos([].list) named({"ident" => (#<match from(0) to(7) text(foo_bar) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, ).list.item}.hash)>␤»
19:10 p6eval ..rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«「foo_bar」␤ ident => 「foo_bar」␤␤»
19:18 masak phenny: en pl "prevalent"?
19:18 phenny masak: "rozpowszechniony" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
19:18 masak could someone dissect this word for me? why is it so long?
19:19 FROGGS hehe, and how to say that....
19:19 tadzik hehe
19:19 tadzik powszechy means common
19:19 FROGGS phenny: de ru "Sehenswürdigkeit"?
19:19 phenny FROGGS: "зрение" (de to ru, translate.google.com)
19:19 tadzik rozpowszechniać is to commonize, let's say
19:19 FROGGS ?
19:19 masak tadzik: what's "roz" in the beginning do? is it a kind of action prefix?
19:20 masak tadzik: like "be-" in English. "befuddle", "beguile".
19:20 masak "bemuse", "besmirch".
19:20 tadzik masak: I don't think that's a rule
19:20 tadzik it's not independent, surly
19:20 masak phenny: pl en "roz"?
19:20 phenny masak: "solution" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
19:20 tadzik er, no :)
19:20 tadzik rozwiązanie, yes
19:20 masak :)
19:20 Woodi wat ? :)
19:21 tadzik wiązać is to make a knot
19:21 tadzik rozwiązać, is to un-knot something
19:21 tadzik rozwiązanie is the result, let's say
19:21 masak tadzik: why do you put "roz" in front of certain words?
19:21 * Woodi thing there is no 'roZ' word in polish...
19:21 tadzik wasn't me!
19:22 masak "you" as in "you Polish people".
19:22 tadzik masak: it may be that it's similar to "de" in english
19:22 tadzik demistify
19:22 Woodi masak: they learned us to do this...
19:22 tadzik decompose
19:22 tadzik taught
19:22 masak tadzik: oh, so it conveys an opposite?
19:22 tadzik er, somewhat
19:22 perigrin derive ... but only if you rived in the beginning.
19:22 tadzik not really the opossite
19:22 tadzik pył is, sort of a dust
19:23 tadzik rozpylać is to make this dust
19:23 tadzik a spray-way
19:23 masak phenny: en pl "powder"?
19:23 phenny masak: "proszek" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
19:24 masak phenny: pl en "pył"?
19:24 phenny masak: "dust" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
19:24 masak phenny: pl en "rozpylać"?
19:24 phenny masak: "spray" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
19:25 Woodi maybe roz is like wave or tornado :)
19:25 masak phenny: en pl "like wave or tornado"?
19:25 phenny masak: "jak fala lub tornado" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
19:25 Woodi it's adding entropy :)
19:26 masak Woodi: solving a knot sounds like decreasing entropy, though.
19:26 Woodi but not necesary make thing chaotic
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19:28 Woodi http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/roz- :)
19:28 tadzik :D
19:28 * arnsholt goes to read
19:29 * masak likewise
19:30 arnsholt Ah, shoot. The English page is only for Czech
19:30 masak I GT'd the Polish to English.
19:30 GlitchMr back... Wiktionary even has prefixes?
19:30 masak "prefix forming nouns derived from other nouns" -- so, it's a monad? ;)
19:31 masak tadzik: "(1.3.c) to increase the size , intensity , etc. something" -- this seems to be what's going on with "rozpowszechniać"
19:32 Woodi masak: now it look strange ppls need to memorize such things :)
19:32 GlitchMr As for "wiązać" and "rozwiązać", right, those are opposites.
19:32 GlitchMr But in most cases, "roz" doesn't mean opposites.
19:33 sjohnson hmm, i would have guessed 13!
19:34 GlitchMr masak: "powszechniać" isn't a verb.
19:35 GlitchMr But it seems to be right
19:35 GlitchMr If I would compare it with "upowszechniać"
19:35 Woodi but upowszechniac is :)
19:35 Woodi u- is prefix too :)
19:36 Woodi but that prefixes do not seems to be operators...
19:37 GlitchMr Well, in Polish language prefixes are complex. Actually, I'm not sure if there's any rule to those.
19:37 arnsholt Prefixes tend to be complicated in general
19:38 arnsholt In English for example, there are some prefixes that are relatively productive, but only with certain stems
19:38 arnsholt (Because of hysterical raisins, of course)
19:39 Woodi but they are usefull, eg. save time, allow talk less :)
19:40 FROGGS it would be good if there are rules for that, so that you can create new words
19:40 GlitchMr Even "nie-" is complex. Usually it means negation of something.
19:40 GlitchMr But there are words like "nienawidzić". Polish doesn't have "nawidzić".
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19:41 arnsholt In Latin there's a class of movement verbs, all with different prefixes derived from a root word that is no longer used =)
19:41 GlitchMr Perhaps it had in the history, not sure, really.
19:41 arnsholt Most likely the root word fell out of use but the derived form stayed in use
19:43 arnsholt The Latin ones I mentioned are still in use in English too: progressive, ingressive, egressive, and so on
19:43 arnsholt All derived from a root verb gredior which isn't actually used in Latin
19:44 arnsholt Although, now that I talk about it, it would be neat if the unprefixed variant was attested in something like Oscan or Umbrian
19:44 GlitchMr Also, those special cases. Natural languages are full of those. Like сорок that means 40 in Russian.
19:45 FROGGS {advent calender}++ # this might help me with my import problem for my module SDL
19:47 arnsholt GlitchMr: Why is that weird?
19:47 GlitchMr http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/сорок
19:47 GlitchMr See "See also"
19:48 GlitchMr Other X0 numbers actually follow a rule.
19:48 GlitchMr Except for девяносто... is 4 special or what?
19:48 masak GlitchMr: oh! I had forgotten about сорок! thanks for reminding me :)
19:48 masak GlitchMr: I was so flummoxed the first time I learned that word. :D
19:49 tadzik сорок sounds like kopa
19:50 arnsholt Right, now I see. That is weird
19:51 arnsholt Possibly a Turkish loan. Cool
19:51 GlitchMr Actually, kopa is like 5 dozens.
19:51 FROGGS well, in german language the 11 and 12 are weird, the others follow a plan
19:51 GlitchMr "Tuzin" in Polish
19:52 FROGGS ... and I thought a dozen is 12
19:52 GlitchMr Because it is
19:52 GlitchMr I have said, 5 dozens - 5 tuzinów.
19:53 FROGGS ahh, kopa, not copok
19:53 * masak .oO( a dozen is 12 unless you're a baker )
19:53 FROGGS masak?
19:53 Woodi hmm ? baker ?
19:53 GlitchMr So, do you mean elf and zwölf. Yeah, that's odd to me too.
19:53 tadzik elf-cwelf
19:53 FROGGS GlitchMr: right, because dreizehn is 3=drei + 10=zehn
19:54 GlitchMr I know ;-)
19:54 masak FROGGS: nono, сорок, not copok. :D
19:54 FROGGS thats the only oddity I can think of
19:54 tadzik m?
19:54 tadzik ww, sorry
19:54 FROGGS masak: whatever ;o)
19:54 masak FROGGS: they're not even close!
19:54 masak .u кk
19:54 phenny U+043A CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER KA (к)
19:54 phenny U+006B LATIN SMALL LETTER K (k)
19:54 GlitchMr masak: if you want to go with Latin, use sorok.
19:55 FROGGS just three pixels on my screen difference
19:55 GlitchMr But Cyrillic is preferred - сорок.
19:55 masak GlitchMr: thank you for informing me of how Cyrillic is pronounced. this would have been very useful for me in certain situations, such as severe memory loss.
19:55 masak :P
19:55 GlitchMr Well, it isn't that easy
19:56 masak oh, it's pretty easy, once you know how.
19:56 masak I'll give you a quick run-through some day.
19:56 GlitchMr о is spelled differently depending on accent
19:56 masak o rly?
19:56 tadzik :D
19:56 GlitchMr IPA: [ˈsorək]
19:57 FROGGS thats spocks father, is it?
19:57 tadzik SPOILER ALERT
19:57 GlitchMr With accent, о is spelled like o, otherwise it's spelled like ə.
19:57 tadzik oh, no, I've seen that one I think :)
19:58 GlitchMr Or if we map to Cyrillic, о without accent is spelled like а.
19:58 GlitchMr .u а
19:58 phenny U+0430 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A (а)
19:58 GlitchMr "sorok" was transliteration
19:58 FROGGS masak: klingon is a nice language btw, if these pre- and suffix are fun for you
19:59 masak GlitchMr: was gonna say. isn't the unstressed о pronounced more like [a]?
19:59 GlitchMr Yes
19:59 masak GlitchMr: also, after learning Cyrillic, all transliterations look a bit sad and insufficient.
20:00 masak because Cyrillic is really good at capturing the Russian sounds.
20:00 masak and transliterated Latin isn't.
20:00 tadzik go figure :)
20:00 GlitchMr Oh, and accent is moving in Russian. For сорок, the accent is on first о.
20:00 masak GlitchMr: "stress is nondeterministic" :)
20:01 masak GlitchMr: "accent" doesn't mean what you think it means.
20:01 GlitchMr False friends ;-)
20:01 GlitchMr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend
20:01 GlitchMr But right, I think I should've used stress.
20:01 GlitchMr https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/akcent
20:02 masak it's the same false friend in Swedish.
20:03 masak hm, no. never mind.
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20:14 japhb FROGGS, I glanced through 4223775 because I noticed the IRC highlight, but have been too busy with $day_job to do more than that.  I do like the Tron references, BTW.  And the way you present your interface ideas.
20:14 phenny japhb: 19:06Z <FROGGS> ask japhb if he has a chance to look at https://gist.github.com/4223775 (comments would be nice :o)
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20:15 tadzik . o O ( [F]irst time /r/perl6, be nice )
20:15 tadzik I didn't write that :)
20:18 xenoterracide joined #perl6
20:24 FROGGS japhb: the reason that I would just append numeric uids (1..n) is because the auth can be a url or samething, you cant put that in a path... So you cant trust the path/filename anyway and you must use the manifest
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20:32 japhb FROGGS, we had discussed mapping URL -> path in a lossy way, but taking advantage of the fact that in actual use collisions of the lossy-mapped auth are likely to be rare.
20:33 japhb (where we = #perl6)
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20:38 dalek perl6-roast-data: bbfac19 | coke++ | / (3 files):
20:38 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
20:38 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/bbfac1964c
20:41 tadzik jnthn: oh, oh!
20:41 tadzik the bug fixed itself when I wasn't looking :)
20:41 tadzik I just panda-installed rakudo-debugger
20:41 jnthn Oh
20:41 jnthn \o/
20:42 sirrobert nice =)
20:42 phenny sirrobert: 29 Nov 14:29Z <jnthn> tell sirrobert be sure you're not trying to step into a pre-compiled module (ideally it would never use pre-compiled things and always compile debug versions...I'll make it do that eventually...)
20:42 tadzik well, almost ;)
20:42 tadzik I have something like https://gist.github.com/4228162
20:42 jnthn tadzik: You got a commit bit to rakudo-debugger already if you need to diddle its META.info or whatever.
20:43 jnthn Nice
20:43 jnthn Then the module in lib is just a normal thing.
20:43 tadzik yeah
20:43 jnthn Depends on Term::ANSIColor
20:43 tadzik that's the part that doesn't work :)
20:43 jnthn ah
20:43 tadzik but it may be that I just need to remove the 'return' which Panda::Builder does when finishing with Build.pm :)
20:45 * [Coke] starts again to see if he can build pugs... first hit googling for the error I'm getting... is my gist. Uhoh.
20:50 pochi joined #perl6
20:55 tadzik and now panda stopped building with Malformed UTF-8 String. Wtf
20:56 * tadzik ponders Dist::Zilla-ish thing for Perl 6
20:57 tadzik although I more need a revived Module::Starter probably
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21:12 colomon tadzik++
21:14 sergot hi everyone! o/
21:14 tadzik hello sergot  :)
21:17 masak sergocie! \o/
21:27 wamba joined #perl6
21:30 sorear sergocie, tadzik, colomon, maska!
21:30 colomon o/
21:31 tadzik (:
21:33 masak sorear! \o/
21:36 sergot \o/
21:38 snearch joined #perl6
21:51 masak 'night, #perl6
21:53 sergot masak: good night!
21:59 fgomez joined #perl6
22:27 dalek panda: ce829d7 | tadzik++ | lib/Panda/Builder.pm:
22:27 dalek panda: Support custom builders. Experimental, may break
22:27 dalek panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/ce829d76f5
22:28 tadzik *drum roll*
22:28 dalek rakudo-debugger: 0f4dcf1 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
22:28 dalek rakudo-debugger: Make it Panda-installable
22:28 dalek rakudo-debugger: review: https://github.com/jnthn/raku​do-debugger/commit/0f4dcf15eb
22:28 tadzik jnthn: high five :)
22:31 jnthn o/⁵\o
22:31 fgomez joined #perl6
22:31 jnthn tadzik++
22:31 [Coke] jnthn++ #emoticon.
22:32 tadzik the whole mechanism will probably change, but it works for now :)
22:41 dalek rakudo-debugger: d8f47ac | jnthn++ | README.markdown:
22:41 dalek rakudo-debugger: Update README.
22:41 dalek rakudo-debugger:
22:41 dalek rakudo-debugger: Suggest panda installation now it's possible (tadzik++). Also link to
22:41 dalek rakudo-debugger: blog post and video demonstrating it.
22:41 dalek rakudo-debugger: review: https://github.com/jnthn/raku​do-debugger/commit/d8f47ac05e
22:41 jnthn tadzik: Guess it also wants the META.info adding to ecosystem?
22:43 tadzik jnthn: oh, sure
22:54 dalek ecosystem: ed626b0 | jonathan++ | META.list:
22:54 dalek ecosystem: Add Rakudo::Debugger.
22:54 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/ed626b05e2
22:55 flussence is there a trick to installing rakudo git so that I don't have to update my $PATH every time the parrot version changes? :/
22:55 japhb diakopter, re: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2012-12-05#i_6216009 , a few years back I saw an add for a screen saver that supposedly detected the keyboard patterns of a cat on the keyboard, and flashed the display and made loud noises to try to shoo the cat away.
22:56 japhb tadzik, re: https://github.com/tadzik/pa​nda/commit/ce829d76f5#L0R41 , should that be unshift instead of push (and later shift instead of pop)?
22:57 sorear use a webcam to detect cats approaching the keyboard
23:00 jnthn Thing is, cats already know they're cute enough to get away with anything :)
23:01 japhb FROGGS, re: https://gist.github.com/4223775 , I like the power you implying, though I'd definitely want a quieter default (all that info is more than a little verbose!).  As for the 'activate' command (which I read as similar in concept to Debian alternatives), I've been letting that basic idea simmer in the back of my head for a few days and I'm beginning to think A) it's not *quite* that simple, and B) nevertheless we need something like
23:01 japhb it.
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23:04 japhb TimToady, regarding packaging and zipballs and such, I'm beginning to think that (for the specific case of a git repo holding the source), a release really just needs to be a revish.  A tag is of course easy for humans, but any revish will do.
23:05 japhb So then the question is what kind of build procedure happens on install, and if it destroys all that fun revish info.
23:06 * japhb wonders if really we want to see through the commit/tag to the git tree object
23:07 * japhb goes back to his regularly scheduled work ...
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23:40 dalek perl6-bench: 23baaf3 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
23:40 dalek perl6-bench: Add --runs option to set number of times each test will be run for each compiler variant
23:40 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/23baaf3846
23:44 jnthn 'night, #perl6

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