Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-01-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:06 timotimo d'oh. i forgot the most important part, almost.
00:10 dalek roast: dba0788 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/bit.t:
00:10 dalek roast: Bitwise complement on bigint.
00:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/dba0788096
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00:36 felher good night, #perl6 :)
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01:31 dalek niecza: 89e47b6 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/Builtins.cs:
01:31 dalek niecza: Make prefix:<+^> support BigIntegers.
01:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/89e47b6109
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02:33 timotimo http://youtu.be/3wbVH8AhVbk  -  just going to leave this screencast here for feedback. i might just release this version. i'm more or less satisfied with it.
02:33 timotimo (although i will normalize the sound and reupload it probably)
02:37 dalek nqp: 5f89700 | rurban++ | .gitignore:
02:37 dalek nqp: add MANIFEST.generated to .gitignore
02:37 dalek nqp:
02:37 dalek nqp: This is generated by parrot > 4.11
02:37 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5f89700d9c
02:50 flussence r: eval("class foo {} class bar")
02:50 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse class definitionâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mclass foo  [33mâ��[31mclass bar[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤        generic roleâ�¤Â»
02:50 flussence r: eval("class foo {} \x[2028] class bar {}")
02:50 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse class definitionâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mclass foo  â€¨ [33mâ��[31mclass bar [0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤        generic roleâ�¤Â»â€¦
02:50 timotimo r: eval("class foo {}␤class bar {}");
02:50 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse class definitionâ�¤at eval_0:2â�¤------> [32m<BOL>[33mâ��[31mclass bar [0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤        generic roleâ�¤Â»
02:50 flussence .u 2028
02:50 phenny U+2028 LINE SEPARATOR (
)
02:50 timotimo oh my.
02:52 flussence r: eval("class foo {...}␤class bar {...}");
02:52 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 328671 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:146858) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9197)␤called from Sub 'sink' pc 358070 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:158744) (src/gen/CORE.setting:10354)␤called from Sub 'MAIN' pc 464 (src/gen/perl6.pir:170) …
02:52 flussence ok, that's better
02:52 flussence r: eval("class foo {...}\x[2028]class bar {...}");
02:52 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 328671 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:146858) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9197)␤called from Sub 'sink' pc 358070 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:158744) (src/gen/CORE.setting:10354)␤called from Sub 'MAIN' pc 464 (src/gen/perl6.pir:170) …
02:53 flussence std: eval("class foo {...}\x[2028]class bar {...}");
02:53 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
02:53 flussence n: eval("class foo {...}\x[2028]class bar {...}");
02:53 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: >>>Stub code executed␤  at /tmp/E7ygJvFSU8 line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4218 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4219 (module-CORE @ 580) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/COR…
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03:11 timotimo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10p_2yHk5BA - this is the louder version of the screencast. the old one is deleted. would appreciate feedback (other than 'there's a typo in the commit message') :)
03:12 * diakopter listens/watches
03:13 * diakopter has huge trouble understanding "heavily" accented English
03:13 * diakopter is quite deficient in that regard
03:13 timotimo is that heavily accented? :(
03:14 diakopter I don't know; like I said, my perception is very different from most's
03:15 diakopter heh devbeast
03:15 timotimo :)
03:17 Juerd The recording is awful; an accent (German, I think) is clearly present but it'd be easier to understand if the recording were better.
03:18 diakopter the keyboard is loud
03:18 * diakopter is done whining
03:18 timotimo maybe i should re-record the voiceover, then? try a different microphone at least
03:19 Juerd timotimo: That could certainly help
03:19 timotimo https://twitter.com/loltimo/status/287660427343704064/photo/1 - did quite a bit of blanket-hanging so that the recording would be better
03:19 timotimo but i suppose using the noise-removal filter made it quite a bit worse
03:19 Juerd If that lojban lightning talk is yours, then at least for me, your accent is no problem at all :)
03:19 Juerd diakopter: Can you understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdlGxgKt7nc ?
03:19 diakopter what does fat-letters() do with non-ascii text
03:20 timotimo yes, it is
03:20 timotimo diakopter: what .trans does with non-supplied stuff. leave it untouched
03:20 Juerd I HATE the "next slide" nonsense in ccc lightning talks!
03:21 timotimo Juerd: i had my smartphone with me and could have used the "pew! pew!" app to get the next slide
03:21 Juerd Also, the LTs are scheduled way too early, when I'm usually still in bed during a ccc congress :P
03:21 diakopter Juerd: yes, more easily
03:21 Juerd timotimo: They should simply use a remote control.
03:21 timotimo yeah, well ...
03:22 timotimo i would *love* to learn how to get my accent neutralised
03:22 Juerd timotimo: Intonation is a big part.
03:22 timotimo fwiw, the guess "german" was correct
03:23 timotimo meaning what part of the word is stressed or the thing chinese has?
03:23 timotimo has as a central feature of the language*
03:23 Juerd Having visited 21c3 .. 29c3, recognising german accents is no challenge anymore :)
03:23 timotimo :D
03:23 diakopter you can listen to UK English and imitate it, then the same words in American English and imitate it, then pick one. :)
03:24 timotimo i'd more likely imitate both at once and create some really uncanny combination
03:24 Juerd timotimo: That's what I do :)
03:24 timotimo anyway, it's already been bedtime for a few hours now. good night!
03:24 diakopter well, the consistency is part of not having an accent
03:25 diakopter o/
03:25 Juerd timotimo: At 0:11 of the LT, you pronounce "conlang" with "lang" in a higher pitch than "con", which sounds unnatural to me. This pattern is present in almost everything you say, and something that's typical of many, but certainly not all, german accents.
03:27 timotimo that's a good hint, thanks!
03:27 Juerd timotimo: And in "computer", in English usually the "o" sounds more like a german "a", not an "o". See also "control" which has a first, then o.
03:27 Juerd These two things are just some examples. Listen to your own lightning talk and try to find samples of the same words elsewhere.
03:27 diakopter computer vowels: but cute bird
03:28 Juerd But only do so if you want to. Your English is fine imho.
03:28 Juerd At the german conferences, much of the denglish I hear is much, much worse :)
03:29 * Juerd has no idea whether he has a strong accent himself.
03:29 * diakopter must reemphasize: my accent listening is atrocious
03:29 * Juerd hates listening to his own voice.
03:29 Juerd diakopter: Does unaccented English even exist? :)
03:29 timotimo i'd love to be the proud owner of a barely noticable german accent
03:31 Juerd As long as you don't say things like "it gives", I guess most people won't even recognise it.
03:32 timotimo oh, you think?
03:32 Juerd No, still afloat ;)
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03:33 Juerd (Just teasing; your th is good enough :))
03:33 skids_ Juerd: A particular American English accent is preferred by television producers.  It's prevalent around where I live (Western MA) and also some areas of CA.
03:34 timotimo yeah, th is kind of the killer
03:34 timotimo it may not be exclusive to the german accent, but almost every non-proficient german english-speaker does it and it drives me crazy
03:35 Juerd timotimo: There was a tv commercial in .nl, featuring a bad german accent: <people on a boat> "We are sinking!" ... <germans> "What are you thinking ABOUT?"
03:35 timotimo oh, yes, that audiobite is also part of a song i'm quite fond of
03:35 timotimo maybe i'll spend a couple bucks on a proper microphone. the ps3 eye cam mics aren't that hot, are they? same goes for my ~7 euro clip-on microphone i bet.
03:35 Juerd So, whenever I run rsync, I keep thinking "What am I syncing ABOUT?!"
03:35 Juerd Which makes no sense.
03:36 Juerd And drives me mad.
03:36 Juerd I'm off to bed now. 4:36 here.
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07:14 snarkyboojum hi guys, what do we have for creating modules a la Dist::Zilla or Module::Starter?
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07:32 snarkyboojum e.g. is panda going to be extended to create modules as well props?
07:32 snarkyboojum praps*
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08:46 moritz \o
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09:52 FROGGS_ phenny: tell flussence that he might try: r: eval("class foo \{...\}\x[2028]class bar \{...\}"); # you need to escape { }
09:52 phenny FROGGS_: I'll pass that on when flussence is around.
09:53 FROGGS morning moritz
09:58 FROGGS timotimo: I really like it, but you need a better keyboard ;o)
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09:59 FROGGS timotimo: what do your neighbours say when you type? # the colors and sound is pretty good, my kid is talking to me in a loop, so will check your talk later
10:00 popl o_O
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10:42 FROGGS[mobile] whats up popl?
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10:47 popl FROGGS[mobile]: just hanging out over in #perl
11:07 masak g'day, #perl6
11:08 tadzik HELLO!
11:16 FROGGS[mobile] hi masak, tadzik
11:18 tadzik HOP in epub format for free!11111
11:19 popl nothing is free, tadzik
11:19 tadzik no, some things are free
11:19 popl TANSTAAFL
11:19 tadzik a smile is free, for example
11:20 popl Are you calling Robert Heinlein a liar?
11:20 popl ;P
11:20 tadzik . o O ( that'd be free speech ) ;)
11:20 masak tadzik: you *assume* a smile is free...
11:20 * masak smiles, menacingly
11:21 masak timotimo: nice video.
11:22 tadzik video?
11:22 masak timotimo: I have no problem with the accent or the keyboard smatter. I was slightly disappointed that you didn't actually send the pull request at the end. also, two or three avoidable typos/mistakes pulled down the quality slightly.
11:22 masak tadzik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10p_2yHk5BA
11:23 tadzik Pandas! \o/
11:23 tadzik will have to watch that
11:24 masak Juerd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY :)
11:25 tadzik :D:D:D
11:30 masak oh, I didn't know Potion was an influence for CoffeeScript.
11:40 masak I was actually in hoodwink.d for a short while.
11:40 masak the most fun thing I experienced was going to the Wikipedia article for it. it didn't exist.
11:41 masak but at the bottom of the non-existent article were hoodwink.d comments, with people laughing and making jokes :D
11:41 masak that kinda summarizes the whole thing, methinks.
11:44 masak hm, I notice I'm commenting without context. sorry about that. _why's site is back up, in a very weird way: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5015087
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12:03 moritz is _why's disappearance some deep, shared trauma of the ruby community?
12:05 arnsholt To some extent, I think it might be
12:05 arnsholt I read an article about it a while back
12:19 masak was that the article where they tracked _why down and revealed his identity once and for all, to the tunes of him saying that he just wants to be left alone?
12:28 masak it left me wondering what went through the journalist's mind at the time.
12:33 arnsholt Yeah, that bit was a bit weird I guess
12:35 masak it was a fine, well-researched article, appropriate as a tribute to _why, oddly ending with "so, I tracked him down".
12:43 arnsholt Actually talking to him was a good ending I think, but dropping all the info on him as well might be a bit unnecessary
12:44 arnsholt Although it was more a confirmation than news to those who had looked into it before it seems
12:47 masak aye.
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13:03 moritz still, not quite the right spirit to divulge the details, IMHO
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13:13 moritz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_Wars # wow, I had no idea this had been such a big topic
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13:24 masak unrelated to the "new math" that Tom Lehrer is singing about, I assume.
13:24 masak this seems to have been later than that.
13:24 felher timotimo++ # nice video :)
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13:36 snarkyboojum the subject matter of the 'Maths Wars' debate reminds me of a beautiful essay I read some time ago - http://www.maa.org/devlin/lockhartslament.pdf
13:39 masak now why does that sound familiar? oh yes: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=410
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13:56 timotimo hum
13:56 timotimo now what am i supposed to think/do. re-record the audio, re-do the video and audio? :|
14:10 timotimo FROGGS: also, my keyboard is *excellent*, thank you very much :P
14:16 masak I don't believe that's what he was asking.
14:16 masak he was asking what the neighbors think when you type :)
14:17 masak (I am the proud owner of a model M keyboard, by the way. I'm glad I held onto it. it truly is a joy to type on.)
14:17 timotimo this is a Das Keyboard, so it's similar enough
14:17 FROGGS timotimo: :o)
14:17 timotimo i'm not sure my neighbours actually hear it
14:17 FROGGS wow
14:17 FROGGS (Das Keyboard)++
14:17 timotimo but for the next time i record a screencast, i'll retrieve that external thinkpad usb keyboard i've deposited at a friend's
14:18 FROGGS 1800 euros, right?
14:18 timotimo er, no?!
14:18 timotimo that would be the optimus maximus
14:18 FROGGS ahh, k
14:18 timotimo i'm not that crazy :)
14:18 timotimo although i'm currently considering spending a hundred euros on a microphone and related, necessary doodads
14:20 moritz masak: the math wars started indeed with the "new math" thing
14:20 moritz though "new math" became old pretty quickly, and the "reformed math" was basically a reaction to the new math
14:21 timotimo i should only spend money on recording equipment if my voice is pleasant enough so that i could consider making lots of screencasts and stuff. would that be the case?
14:21 FROGGS timotimo: I think so, yes
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14:23 masak moritz: if I would guess, the fundamental problem is that kids typically hate math and don't see the point of it. Russia and much of Asia seem to be exceptions for some reason, but it holds true for Europe and the US.
14:25 masak as for me, I'm not sure if I enjoyed math because I saw the point of it early, or vice versa. early memories seem to point to the enjoyment being there first :)
14:25 moritz same here
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14:26 masak after learning how to do addition on paper, I liked to sit down with a sheet of graph paper, write "1" in the top right corner, then "2" below it, and keep doubling as I ran out of paper.
14:26 masak s/ as / until /
14:27 masak I don't know what I found so fascinating about it. but it did give me an early familiarity with the powers of two.
14:28 masak I also observed -- long before I learned anything about logarithms -- that sometimes it would take 3 lines until one got a new digit, sometimes it would take 4. but always 3 *or* 4.
14:28 timotimo mathematical "doodle games" like that and the ones vi hart is popularising should be a great way to make math fun for kids, although most of the doodle games vi does are rather for advanced students
14:28 masak r: say log(10)/log(2)
14:29 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«3.32192809488736␤»
14:29 masak I also liked to think about the cycles that always happened in the far-right column.
14:30 masak r: say 1, { ($_ * 2) % 10 } ... *
14:30 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«1 2 4 8 ...␤»
14:30 masak heh.
14:30 masak r: say (1, { ($_ * 2) % 10 } ... *)[^20]
14:30 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«1 2 4 8 6 2 4 8 6 2 4 8 6 2 4 8 6 2 4 8␤»
14:30 masak r: say (3, { ($_ * 2) % 10 } ... *)[^20]
14:30 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«3 6 2 4 8 6 2 4 8 6 2 4 8 6 2 4 8 6 2 4␤»
14:30 masak you can start at any digit (except 5 or 0) and you will get this cycle.
14:31 masak I found that intriguing.
14:32 masak oh, and I soon learned that I could do the addition left-to-right, if only I kept on the lookout for carries.
14:40 timotimo masak: do you think you had a predisposition for finding those patterns interesting? or could any kid have been fascinated in a similar way?
14:41 masak I have no insights into nature-vs-nurture, unfortunately. I think it's a complex interplay of predisposition and environment.
14:44 moritz decimal fractions also have interesting properties regarding the length of the cycle
14:44 moritz in particular, the cycle can't ever be longer than the denominator
14:44 moritz because there can only by remainders that are smaller than the denominator
14:45 masak for example, 2**10 == 1048576. if I do the doubling without carries, it comes out as 2086042, and I can do that left-to-right. but then I know the '8604' digits all require a carry, becoming '9715'. so the final result is '2097152'. but I can do it all left-to-right.
14:45 masak (with some lookahead)
14:46 * masak tries to capture this in an algorithm
14:55 masak here: https://gist.github.com/4467722 :)
14:56 masak I wrote it first as an algorithm that pops the last element of the array, adds one and puts it back.
14:56 masak then I refactored it into an algorithm that uses $last :)
14:56 masak interesting exercise.
14:57 masak speaking of which: people, send in your p6cc solutions! I'm getting some, but not enough. :) don't wait until the very last moment.
14:57 moritz I'd send in more solutions if I had more :-)
15:04 moritz r: https://gist.github.com/4467722
15:04 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤ok 2 - ␤ok 3 - ␤»
15:06 masak I realize I should have had one more test case: is double(7), 14;
15:06 masak anyway, the code would pass that one, too.
15:07 masak thanks to the post-increment on line 10 turning an Any value into 0 before incrementing.
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15:31 timotimo r: class A { has $.attr is rw; }; class B { has A $!foo handles <attr>; }; my $inst = B.new(); $inst.attr = "hello world"; say $inst.attr;
15:31 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method attr at src/gen/CORE.setting:1791␤  in method attr at src/gen/CORE.setting:267␤  in block  at /tmp/td7yoZUU_q:1␤␤»
15:31 timotimo oh, right
15:32 timotimo r: class A { has $.attr is rw; }; class B { has A $!foo handles <attr>; method new() { $!foo = A.new; }; }; my $inst = B.new(); $inst.attr = "hello world"; say $inst.attr;
15:32 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method new at /tmp/MoVaNwVRXJ:1␤  in block  at /tmp/MoVaNwVRXJ:1␤␤»
15:32 timotimo er, huh?
15:32 timotimo std: class A { has $.attr is rw; }; class B { has A $!foo handles <attr>; method new() { $!foo = A.new; }; }; my $inst = B.new(); $inst.attr = "hello world"; say $inst.attr;
15:32 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
15:33 timotimo oh, did i forget to bless in new()?
15:33 timotimo std: class A { has $.attr is rw; }; class B { has A $!foo handles <attr>; submethod BUILD() { $!foo = A.new; }; }; my $inst = B.new(); $inst.attr = "hello world"; say $inst.attr;
15:33 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
15:33 timotimo r: class A { has $.attr is rw; }; class B { has A $!foo handles <attr>; submethod BUILD() { $!foo = A.new; }; }; my $inst = B.new(); $inst.attr = "hello world"; say $inst.attr;
15:33 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
15:33 timotimo yay
15:33 timotimo that's pretty cool
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16:09 moritz r: my &a := * % 10;
16:09 p6eval rakudo a93058:  ( no output )
16:17 masak r: my &a := * / 10; say a a a 42_000
16:17 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«42␤»
16:18 masak r: my &a := 'a' ~ *; say a a a a a a 'rgh!'
16:18 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«aaaaaargh!␤»
16:18 moritz r: say map * % 10, '7654'.comb Z+ '8230'.comb
16:18 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'map'; none of these signatures match:␤:(&code, *@values)␤␤  in block  at /tmp/QYwXgmvjB7:1␤␤»
16:18 moritz what's wrong here?
16:18 masak precedence.
16:18 moritz oh
16:18 moritz r: say map * % 10, ('7654'.comb Z+ '8230'.comb)
16:18 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«5 8 8 4␤»
16:18 masak just so.
16:19 moritz masak++
16:20 masak in an arm-wrestling match between a listop and a zip operator, the zip operator wins (binds the loosest). this is often surprising.
16:20 masak hm, no. it's not the listop so much as the list `* % 10, '7654'.comb`
16:23 timotimo ooh, so *that* is how that works!
16:23 masak yeah.
16:23 masak it's one of those "can't win" precedences. even the same user will expect both variants at different times.
16:24 masak this feels perfectly natural, for example:
16:24 masak rn: .say for 1, 2, 3, 4 Z+ 50, 60, 70, 80
16:24 p6eval rakudo a93058, niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«51␤62␤73␤84␤»
16:24 masak we *don't* expect just 4 and 50 to be added there, and the other six elements to be silently thrown out.
16:25 masak well, the same argument causes '* % 10' to be gobbled up by Z+ above.
16:26 timotimo yes, indeed.
16:27 timotimo can i do debug-prints from inside the nqp source of rakudo in any sensible way?
16:28 timotimo (in Actions.pm for instance)
16:29 masak nqp: say("lol I am a debug statement!")
16:29 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«lol I am a debug statement!␤»
16:29 yakshavr joined #perl6
16:31 timotimo oh? that's surprisingly easy
16:31 timotimo nqp: say "lol, do i need parens?";
16:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say \"lol, "␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 13231 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:4687) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:328)␤»
16:31 timotimo fair enough
16:32 timotimo nqp: my $a := 10; say($a.WHAT);
16:32 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Can only use get_what on a SixModelObject␤current instr.: '' pc 53 ((file unknown):43) (/tmp/IblgbcqxXn:1)␤»
16:32 timotimo if i'm not sure what type something is, how would i get it print'd?
16:32 timotimo nqp: my $a := 10; say($a.perl);
16:32 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'␤current instr.: '' pc 59 ((file unknown):43) (/tmp/4E4LK31kZO:1)␤»
16:32 timotimo nqp: my $a := 10; say($a.gist);
16:32 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'␤current instr.: '' pc 59 ((file unknown):43) (/tmp/17VBXiznOo:1)␤»
16:33 timotimo hah, that should do it :P
16:41 Moukeddar joined #perl6
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16:43 Moukeddar joined #perl6
16:45 masak Mouk...edd...! \o/...
17:04 ismail_ joined #perl6
17:21 MayDaniel joined #perl6
17:42 wk joined #perl6
17:44 darkwolf joined #perl6
17:45 darkwolf hi #perl6
17:45 darkwolf r: my int $a
17:45 p6eval rakudo a93058:  ( no output )
17:46 darkwolf r: my int $a =5; say $a
17:46 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«5␤»
17:46 darkwolf works
17:47 diakopter :)
17:47 masak hi, darkwolf.
17:47 darkwolf it seems this bug is only in archlinux/rakudo version
17:47 darkwolf hi masak
17:48 masak darkwolf: "this bug"? could you nopaste what you get?
17:48 masak including 'perl6 -v' output.
17:48 darkwolf ok I'll try
17:48 moritz darkwolf: are you using the interactive shell?
17:49 darkwolf yes
17:49 moritz that's know not to like native types
17:49 darkwolf it was in repl
17:49 moritz right, that's a known bug
17:49 masak oh, the REPLs the differing factor.
17:49 darkwolf so it was known bug then
17:49 masak REPL's*
17:49 darkwolf like unicode :(
17:49 timotimo trying to understand the require ::($foo) thing again, kind of not really getting it so far :|
17:50 darkwolf thanks, masak
17:50 masak darkwolf: Unicode -- that could be your terminal, though.
17:51 darkwolf last time I cheked repl printed giberish when I tried to print unicode
17:51 darkwolf Is that fixed
17:52 timotimo hm, token longname has a {} inside. what does that do? it's an empty closure/block/code?
17:52 darkwolf воркс
17:52 darkwolf ops
17:52 darkwolf works
17:52 darkwolf wrong keymap
17:52 darkwolf :)
17:53 moritz timotimo: I have a partial patch locally
17:53 moritz timotimo: spectesting that now
17:53 timotimo oh. well, of course you could do it, too ..
17:53 moritz timotimo: the {} is an empty block that limits LTM
17:53 timotimo limit in what way?
17:53 moritz timotimo: I wanted to leave it to you, but it didn't let me rest :-)
17:54 moritz limit what the "longest" in "longest token" refers to
17:54 timotimo mhm
17:54 timotimo as long as you are willing to answer my questions about your patch, it's okay
17:54 tadzik hrm, timotimo
17:54 tadzik in your video, 0:15-0:20 or so, why is the scrollbar not moving? :)
17:54 timotimo tadzik: i have no idea tbh
17:55 tadzik . o O ( Lies! )
17:57 timotimo moritz: can i have a look at the patch even if it's not 100% spectested yet?
18:00 masak darkwolf: "воркс" -- wrong keymap, and even then a typo. it's "works", not "vorks" :P
18:00 tadzik the video convinces me again that no one has ever written META.info from scratch :P
18:00 timotimo :D
18:01 darkwolf in Bulgarian phonetic keymap "в" is on "w"
18:01 darkwolf :)
18:01 masak oh!
18:01 masak TIL
18:01 darkwolf that's why
18:01 masak tadzik: it's META.info copies all the way down! :)
18:01 masak darkwolf: what's on "v"?
18:01 darkwolf ж
18:02 masak no жay!
18:02 masak that's just... жeird.
18:02 darkwolf I know
18:02 masak clearly ж should be on the "zh" key :P
18:03 darkwolf It must be near "any" key
18:03 darkwolf ;)
18:03 * tadzik wonders if Module::Starter is still useful
18:04 timotimo the only thing it should do is grab a random META.info from github :P
18:06 grondilu joined #perl6
18:07 grondilu rn: say [R**] 2 .. 4
18:07 phenny grondilu: 03 Jan 21:50Z <masak> tell grondilu that I think http://rosettacode.org/mw/index.php?title=Average_loop_length&amp;diff=149562&amp;oldid=149561 made a mathematical-looking expression much less easy to understand :/
18:07 p6eval rakudo a93058, niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«4096␤»
18:07 phenny grondilu: 03 Jan 21:53Z <masak> tell grondilu also, I can't reproduce the bug you seem to be compensating for in http://rosettacode.org/mw/index.php?title=Average_loop_length&amp;diff=149566&amp;oldid=149562 -- old rakudo?
18:11 tadzik timotimo: awesome screencast!
18:11 timotimo you think? thanks!
18:11 timotimo i got quite diverse opinions ;)
18:11 tadzik yeah, I liked it a lot
18:12 tadzik I'm amazed every time panda works for someone :P
18:12 timotimo \o/
18:12 tadzik are you planning to do more of those?
18:14 grondilu rn: for ^2 { FIRST { .say for <foo bar> }; .say }
18:14 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Action method statement_prefix:FIRST not yet implemented at /tmp/1abxGTuWcL line 1:�------> [32mfor ^2 { FIRST { .say for <foo bar> }[33m�[31m; .say }[0m��Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method statement_level in …
18:14 p6eval ..rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
18:14 * masak submits rakudobug
18:15 masak grondilu++
18:15 masak I'm running 2012.11-95-g8a1836b locally, and it works there.
18:15 masak so it's a relatively new regression.
18:16 * masak was the one with the old rakudo, it turns out :)
18:16 grondilu :)
18:16 timotimo tadzik: yes, i'd love to. i just ordered a less crappy microphone
18:16 groky joined #perl6
18:18 * flussence < /dev/backlog
18:18 phenny flussence: 09:52Z <FROGGS_> tell flussence that he might try: r: eval("class foo \{...\}\x[2028]class bar \{...\}"); # you need to escape { }
18:18 flussence hm
18:19 flussence rn: eval("class foo \{...\} \x[2028] class bar \{...\}");
18:19 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Package was stubbed but not defined␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 5633 (STD.sorry @ 7) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 5416 (STD.explain_mystery…
18:19 p6eval ..rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mclass foo {...} 
 [33mâ��[31mclass bar {...}[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        s…
18:20 timotimo tadzik: feel free to suggest topics ;)
18:20 flussence rn: eval("class foo \{ has $.a; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has $.b; \}");
18:20 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable $.a used where no 'self' is availableâ�¤at /tmp/t1IvKYRqSo:1â�¤------> [32meval("class foo \{ has $.a[33mâ��[31m; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has $.b; \}")[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤    â€¦
18:20 p6eval ..niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Variable $.a used where no 'self' is available at /tmp/22UqaL08sB line 1:�------> [32meval("class foo \{ has [33m�[31m$.a; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has $.b; \[0m��Variable $.b used where no 'self' is available at /tmp/22…
18:20 flussence rn: eval("class foo \{ has $a; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has $b; \}");
18:20 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/wGNo2HxtTy line 1:�------> [32meval("class foo \{ has [33m�[31m$a; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has $b; \}"[0m��Variable $b is not predeclared at /tmp/wGNo2HxtTy line 1:�------> [32m\{…
18:20 p6eval ..rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable $a is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/PuFV0Sc6AD:1â�¤------> [32meval("class foo \{ has $a[33mâ��[31m; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has $b; \}");[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
18:20 flussence argh
18:20 tadzik timotimo: ha, I was curious if you have any ideas :)
18:20 masak r: for ^2 { FIRST { say "hah!" }; .say }
18:20 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«hah!␤0␤1␤»
18:21 timotimo "how to implement simple things into rakudo" :P
18:21 masak r: for ^2 { FIRST { .say for 4 }; .say }
18:21 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
18:21 masak r: for ^2 { LAST { .say for 4 }; .say }
18:21 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
18:21 masak r: for ^2 { LAST { say "hah!" }; .say }
18:21 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤hah!␤»
18:21 masak r: for ^2 { ENTER { .say for 4 }; .say }
18:21 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
18:21 masak r: for ^2 { LEAVE { .say for 4 }; .say }
18:21 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
18:22 flussence std: class foo { has $!a } #ok, let me start from the basics...
18:22 p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
18:22 flussence rn: eval("class foo \{ has \$!a; \} \x[2028] class bar \{ has \$!b; \}");
18:22 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mclass foo { has $!a; } 
 [33mâ��[31mclass bar { has $!b; }[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scoped declaratorâ�¤        constraintâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        infix st…
18:22 p6eval ..niecza v24-16-g89e47b6:  ( no output )
18:22 flussence there we go
18:22 flussence unicode newlines: should they be allowed as source code newlines or not?
18:23 masak r: for ^2 { FIRST { say "oh!" for 4 }; .say }
18:23 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
18:23 flussence (also, what's the q adverb for interpolating \x but nothing else?)
18:25 flussence r: say q:b/ $a $b {foo} \x[2028] /
18:25 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT« $a $b {foo} 
 ␤»
18:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 60c572c | moritz++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
18:30 dalek rakudo/nom: crude implementation of "require ::($modulename) <importlist>
18:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
18:30 dalek rakudo/nom: only works for a single chunk, e.g. "require Test::($name) <&symbols>" does not work
18:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/60c572c3f5
18:39 snearch joined #perl6
18:51 FROGGS rn: eval('class foo {...}; class bar {...}');
18:51 p6eval rakudo a93058: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤The following packages were stubbed but not defined:â�¤    fooâ�¤    barâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mclass foo {...}; class bar {...}[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix or meta-infix…
18:51 p6eval ..niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Package was stubbed but not defined␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 5633 (STD.sorry @ 7) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 5416 (STD.explain_mystery…
18:51 FROGGS flussence: why not with semicolon and single quotes?
18:51 ismail_ joined #perl6
18:52 flussence I was testing how it handled the line break in the middle.
18:52 FROGGS ahh, k
18:54 grondilu /away
18:59 darkwolf panda is not working for me :(
19:03 masak darkwolf: any chance you can paste the output at https://gist.github.com/ ? makes it easier to diagnose.
19:07 darkwolf http://paste.perldancer.org/32DjAXhHmrawh
19:07 darkwolf is that ok
19:08 darkwolf ?
19:08 FROGGS darkwolf: what command did you invoke?
19:08 FROGGS your paste is a bit short
19:08 moritz and did you install panda yourself? or did you the panda that came with a rakudo Star installation?
19:09 moritz and what version of rakudo are you using?
19:09 darkwolf panda install NativeCall
19:09 darkwolf I built it myself
19:09 darkwolf from the github repository
19:10 darkwolf as a common user
19:10 moritz what, rakudo? or panda?
19:11 darkwolf rakudo
19:11 darkwolf oops
19:11 darkwolf panda
19:11 moritz so, what's your rakudo version?
19:11 darkwolf rakudo is from archlinux/rakudo repository
19:11 moritz and whats its version?
19:11 darkwolf 2012.12
19:11 moritz that should be new enough
19:12 darkwolf on parrot 4.11.0
19:12 moritz and then in panda, you ran   perl6 bootstrap.pl ?
19:12 darkwolf yes
19:13 moritz hrmpf
19:13 moritz and what does   which panda   say?
19:13 flussence FWIW this looks like exactly the same problem I've been having (someone mentioned it was a precomp bug)
19:14 japhb I get that one on a semi-regular basis as well.  The number changes, BTW.
19:14 japhb And I suspect pre-comp as well, but I've not proven it.
19:14 darkwolf prove tests fail after instalation too
19:15 moritz well, that error is basically always related to precomp
19:15 moritz if you get, please try to run it with the env variable RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1  set
19:15 japhb My script to build a new rakudo and reinstall panda modules is starting to have several "salt the earth" steps ...
19:16 moritz well, you should remove the old %*CUSTOM_LIB<site> dir
19:16 japhb moritz, IIRC that wasn't enough.  I also had to
19:17 japhb git clean -dXf in panda's checkout or somesuch
19:17 * japhb goes and looks on the computer with the latest variant
19:17 flussence I've gotten panda to run by blowing away all its installed *.pir files, but that doesn't solve trying to install other packages using it
19:19 japhb Oh, there was also the problem at one point that I suspected was the result of bash caching the location of the panda bin when I built a new rakudo that used a new parrot that had a new lib path
19:20 * japhb has found this whole process losing -Ofun in the iteration
19:21 GlitchMr joined #perl6
19:26 darkwolf http://paste.perldancer.org/afOH4TcII9qq
19:27 darkwolf this is debug output
19:27 darkwolf from panda when it fails
19:29 masak ooh, RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1
19:29 darkwolf yes
19:31 masak added by moritz++ on 2012-06-05. and I didn't learn about it until today...
19:33 flussence env vars like that should be listed in the manpage, or *somewhere* people might look for them
19:36 GlitchMr joined #perl6
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19:40 darkwolf flussence++
19:42 darkwolf that might help much
19:42 * masak submits rakudobug
19:55 thou joined #perl6
20:09 flussence this might help: http://bpaste.net/show/68597/
20:10 moritz flussence++
20:11 flussence (there's also one in Test.pm, but I don't think that counts)
20:12 FROGGS r: my @a = <a b c>; say @a.grep('b')[0] = ''; say @a
20:12 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«␤a  c␤»
20:12 FROGGS how do I delete an element that was found by grep?
20:12 moritz FROGGS: you don't
20:12 FROGGS meh
20:12 * FROGGS is sad
20:12 moritz FROGGS: you say @a.=grep($inverted_condition)
20:13 FROGGS ahh
20:13 masak FROGGS: if you plan to do this a lot, maybe define a &discard subroutine in your program.
20:13 FROGGS r: my @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(/<-[b]>/); say @a
20:13 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«a c␤»
20:14 FROGGS no, only once
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: e67fa90 | moritz++ | docs/running.pod:
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: document environment variables
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: patch by flussence++
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e67fa9085a
20:14 FROGGS moritz: thanks!
20:14 moritz r: my @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(* ne 'b'); say @
20:14 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Non-declarative sigil is missing its nameâ�¤at /tmp/KLcH5YJQdC:1â�¤------> [32m @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(* ne 'b'); say @[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤â€¦
20:14 moritz r: my @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(* ne 'b'); say @a
20:14 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«a c␤»
20:14 masak r: my @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(none /<[b]>/); say @a
20:14 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«a c␤»
20:15 moritz r: my @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(none 'b'); say @a
20:15 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«a c␤»
20:15 * masak and moritz are so full of good ideas :P
20:15 FROGGS ohh, I like that one
20:15 GlitchMr joined #perl6
20:15 FROGGS (the last one)
20:15 flussence rn: my @a = <a b c>; @a.splice: @a.pairs.first(*.value eq 'b').key, 1; say @a
20:15 p6eval rakudo 60c572, niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«a c␤»
20:15 FROGGS n: my @a = <a b c>; @a.=grep(none 'b'); say @a
20:15 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«a c␤»
20:15 flussence that's the "modify in place" version
20:16 FROGGS cool
20:20 pmurias joined #perl6
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: b8af9a6 | (Paweł Murias)++ | src/QAST/Compiler/JavaScript.nqp:
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: remove a dead method
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/b8af9a675c
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: 3368ffa | (Paweł Murias)++ | bin/compile-setting.nqp:
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: remove debugging statement
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/3368ffa191
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: 5c3ec6a | (Paweł Murias)++ | / (5 files):
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: serialize method caches, more test pass
20:24 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/5c3ec6af92
20:33 moritz r: say do for 1 { FIRST 42 }
20:33 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«␤»
20:33 moritz r: say CHECK 42
20:33 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«42␤»
20:33 moritz r: say FIRST 42
20:33 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
20:33 moritz r: say LEAVE 42
20:33 p6eval rakudo 60c572:  ( no output )
20:35 masak 'say FIRST 42' would be Nil.
20:36 masak but I would expect 'say LEAVE 42' to be something similar.
20:36 masak r: say LEAVE 42; say "alive"
20:36 p6eval rakudo 60c572:  ( no output )
20:36 masak there's something rotten in the state of phasers.
20:38 GlitchMr joined #perl6
20:38 FROGGS yay, my grammar works somehow \o/
20:38 sorear what did you expect?  we haven't even had a #phasers for months.
20:39 masak sorear: that is a sad state of affairs, too.
20:40 masak I, for one, would welcome the return of our #phasers overlords^Wweekly meetings.
20:50 lichtkind joined #perl6
20:50 darkwolf bye
20:51 darkwolf left #perl6
20:52 lichtkind jnthn: are you activly working on the vvm port?
20:52 lichtkind i mean jvm
20:52 masak lichtkind: he is. but he's not back until late tonight or tomorrow.
20:53 lichtkind thanks
20:53 lichtkind masak: any prognosis about that?
20:54 masak lichtkind: it's all on github, so you can inspect the progress yourself.
20:54 masak last I heard though, it's doing large parts of QAST now, but not yet nqp.
20:54 moritz my prognosis is: fun
20:55 lichtkind i currently do i just mean if there are any releasaedates
20:55 nwc10 Christmas!
20:55 masak lichtkind: Christmas! \o/
20:55 masak heh, great minds.
20:55 moritz masak: fwiw https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116314 is about the phasers not being put in sink context properly
20:55 masak oh!
20:56 masak moritz: show me your reasons for believing this.
20:56 masak (...and I'll add them to the ticket)
20:56 moritz masak: for loops are lazy, and only run in eager or sink context
20:57 masak ohrghgh!
20:57 moritz masak: so if normal statements are run, but for loops aren't, sink context is missing
20:57 * masak adds this to the ticket
20:58 masak "Perl 6: we eliminated contexts, because they were too confusing" *rimshot*
20:59 diakopter <.<.
21:00 moritz nobody says we eliminated contexts in Perl 6
21:00 moritz we just changed the way they propagate
21:00 masak my point still stands.
21:00 masak er, my ironic point.
21:01 moritz well yes, buggy context implementation is confusing. I don't challenge that point at all
21:01 sizz joined #perl6
21:01 moritz just like buggy lexicals are confusing
21:01 moritz etc.
21:02 masak oh, buggy lexicals! yeah, this is nothing compared to that.
21:02 [particle] joined #perl6
21:02 masak thanks for the reminder :)
21:04 masak we still have an outstanding lexical bug, by the way.
21:04 masak r: sub foo ($a, $f) { if $f { foo('z', 0) }; given $a {say $a; say $_} }; foo('x', 1)
21:05 p6eval rakudo 60c572: OUTPUT«z␤z␤z␤x␤»
21:05 hash_table joined #perl6
21:06 moritz I know, I recently stumbled over it in RT
21:06 moritz n: sub foo ($a, $f) { if $f { foo('z', 0) }; given $a {say $a; say $_} }; foo('x', 1)
21:06 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«z␤z␤x␤x␤»
21:17 diakopter p: sub foo ($a, $f) { if $f { foo('z', 0) }; given $a {say $a; say $_} }; foo('x', 1)
21:17 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«z␤z␤x␤x␤»
21:18 moritz niecza++
21:18 moritz pugs++
21:21 hash_table joined #perl6
21:21 diakopter rnp: sub foo ($a, $f) { if $f { foo('z', 0) }; { my $a = $OUTER::a; given $a {say $a; say $_} } }; foo('x', 1)
21:21 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/UGzgEhPWIA line 1:â�¤------> [32msub foo ([33mâ��[31m$a, $f) { if $f { foo('z', 0) }; { my $a[0mâ�¤â�¤zâ�¤zâ�¤xâ�¤xâ�¤Â»
21:21 p6eval ..rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«z␤z␤z␤z␤»
21:21 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Undeclared variable: ("$OUTER::a",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0xf6e4fc89>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0xf6dbadc5>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto = <Array:…
21:21 diakopter rakudo ... um?
21:23 diakopter masak: see that? rakudo gets it wronger
21:23 masak hm.
21:24 masak I wouldn't be surprised if that was all part of the same problem.
21:28 diakopter r: sub foo (\foo, $f) { if $f { foo('z', 0) }; { my \foo = \OUTER::foo; given foo {say foo; say $_} } }; foo('x', 1)
21:28 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«z␤z␤z␤z␤»
21:28 diakopter teehee
21:34 stevan_ joined #perl6
21:38 sizz joined #perl6
21:54 colomon joined #perl6
22:13 fgomez joined #perl6
22:40 masak 'night, #perl6
22:41 tadzik good night
22:46 stevan_ joined #perl6
23:17 lichtkind o/ good night @ all
23:31 stevan_ joined #perl6
23:43 stevan_ joined #perl6
23:59 ismail_ joined #perl6

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