Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-01-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:14 * jnthn is safely back home :)
00:15 sorear \o/ jnthn
00:16 flussence yay
00:17 stevan_ joined #perl6
00:19 jnthn Will be properly back into stuff again sometime tomorrow :)
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: ccd0d69 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Implement islist and ishash.
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/ccd0d69a65
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: b54b4fb | jonathan++ | t/qast_aggregate.t:
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Test islist and ishash.
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/b54b4fbdf4
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 0c15d3d | jonathan++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/ (10 files):
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Start distinguishing concrete and type objects.
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/0c15d3d593
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: c966654 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Implement isconcrete.
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/c966654915
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 3894a9e | jonathan++ | t/qast_6model.t:
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Test isconcrete.
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/3894a9eb50
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 0321ca1 | jonathan++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/TypeObject.java:
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Errors for various REPR funcs on type objects.
00:20 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/0321ca147f
00:20 jnthn These commits courtesy of a flight delay
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00:29 japhb \o/ jnthn
00:29 japhb (This delay courtesy of a See's run.  :-)
00:53 timotimo i'm thinking maybe a guided tour through rakudo would be a good thing for a screencast
00:53 timotimo of course, i'd have to do lots and lots of bothering all of you before i can do that :P
00:55 timotimo a guided tour would be: where is the main entry point, where do scripts get parsed, where do they get compiled and when does what code in the rakudo source code get run etc etc etc
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01:06 jnthn sleep, will have tuits again from tomorrow &
01:06 diakopter o/
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01:37 * diakopter stares at a wall of printf debug statements
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02:17 alec i can't take call me maybe but i watched that for 2 minutes
02:17 alec oh, wrong chatroom
02:17 alec (talking about the time travel maybe parody)
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02:51 timotimo i think i'd love to do a screencast in which i show how to build some extremely simple addition to perl6 in rakudo
02:51 timotimo simple and silly, perhaps
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03:49 alec timotimo, i would watch it
03:49 alec are there any perl6 screencasts out there yet?
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04:02 au alec: http://szabgab.com/perl6.html
04:03 au timotimo: ^^^ the more screencasts the merrier
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04:03 sorear yo au
04:03 au greetings sorear
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04:10 alec ok, thanks au
04:10 alec au++
04:10 MattMan_ p6eval "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+);
04:11 MattMan_ rakudo "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+);
04:11 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+);
04:11 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter ; (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/UqqNk4v0GZ:1�------> [32m"abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+)[33m�[31m;[0m�Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'�at /tmp/UqqNk4v0GZ:1�------> [32m"abcd…
04:11 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+)/;
04:11 p6eval rakudo e67fa9:  ( no output )
04:12 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+)/; say @().perl;
04:12 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«().list␤»
04:12 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+)/; say @($/).perl;
04:12 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«(Match.new(orig => "abcd efg", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "abcd efg", from => 3, to => 4, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new())).list␤»
04:13 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) (\w+)/; say $/;
04:13 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«「abcd」␤ 0 => 「abc」␤ 1 => 「d」␤␤»
04:13 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ (\w+)/; say $/;
04:13 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«「abcd efg」␤ 0 => 「abcd」␤ 1 => 「efg」␤␤»
04:14 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ (\w+)/; say @($/)[0];
04:14 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«「abcd」␤␤»
04:14 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ (\w+)/; say @($/)[0] $/[1];
04:14 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/NuPHPLB7g1:1â�¤------> [32mefg" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ (\w+)/; say @($/)[0] [33mâ��[31m$/[1];[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        s…
04:15 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ (\w+)/; print @($/)[0]; print @($/)[1]; print "Hello";
04:15 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«abcdefgHello»
04:15 MattMan_ rakudo: "abcd efg" ~~ /(\w+) \s+ (\w+)/; say @($/)[0]; say @($/)[1]; say "Hello";
04:15 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«「abcd」␤␤「efg」␤␤Hello␤»
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08:23 FROGGS morning
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08:41 jnthn o/ FROGGS
08:41 moritz \o jnthn
08:41 moritz FROGGS o/
08:42 jnthn hi moritz
08:43 jnthn moritz: I realized that the phasers/sink bug has some...interesting...cases for the phasers that work as r-values. So fixing, say, LAST is a case of "just sink it", but BEGIN is...more interesting.
08:44 FROGGS hi jnthn
08:44 FROGGS hi moritz
08:45 moritz jnthn: I have a local commit that adds a :sink parameter to run_phasers_code, which lets me fix FIRST and ENTER at least
08:45 jnthn moritz: Yes, the trouble is that we also have a ticket that wants ENTER to work as an r-value one.
08:45 moritz (as a side effect it moves sub sink() to World.pm and makes it a method)
08:45 FROGGS jnthn, moritz: is there a chance that my froggs_mergemulti branch can make it into nom? IMO it does what it should and there is nothing that I know that breaks
08:46 moritz FROGGS: did you fix it to merge only protos marked as onlystar?
08:46 jnthn FROGGS: It's on my list of things to review now I'm back from doing visiting.
08:46 FROGGS moritz: I did
08:46 moritz FROGGS: ok, great
08:47 FROGGS jnthn: no hurry, I just want it to gather dust ;o)
08:47 FROGGS *not to*
08:47 jnthn .oO( magic bugfixie dust )
08:47 moritz jnthn: hm, we already have a solution for stuff that might or might not be an rvalue
08:48 moritz QAST::Want($thing, 'v', ...)
08:48 moritz jnthn: can we somehow apply that to the phasers too?
08:49 jnthn moritz: Hmmm....
08:50 jnthn moritz: Not entirely easily
08:51 jnthn Oh my. And for BEGIN we don't actually know if it's r-value or not at the point we run it.
08:51 moritz well, that's OK
08:51 moritz if we know afterwards
08:51 moritz a for-loop at the end of a subroutine also doesn't know if it's in sink context until after the routine has terminated
08:52 jnthn True
08:52 jnthn Oh, hm
08:52 moritz I'm going to commit my stuff to a branch, so that I don't lose it
08:53 dalek rakudo/sink-phasers: d30d7bc | moritz++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
08:53 dalek rakudo/sink-phasers: sink FIRST and ENTER phasers
08:53 dalek rakudo/sink-phasers: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d30d7bc1d4
08:53 jnthn What if add_phaser's :sink flag did not actually do the sinking, but instead you tagged the QAST it produces in some way (maybe with the the actual thing that'd need sinking), and autosink would look at that...
08:54 jnthn Oh, hm, maybe it's not quite that simple
08:54 jnthn Or maybe it can work
08:54 jnthn Gotta go for a meeting...
08:54 * moritz too
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08:59 kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
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12:18 colomon o/
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13:42 [Coke] masak (solutions) do you want some even if a) we're not done with all the tasks, or b) an individual task isn't quite done?
13:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: cc89173 | coke++ | / (4 files):
13:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
13:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/cc89173ef8
13:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3e36b54 | coke++ | / (4 files):
13:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
13:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/3e36b54628
13:51 masak [Coke]: feel free to send in tasks at will, individually or all five.
13:52 masak I will vet solutions individually, and provide feedback when I accept them.
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14:16 masak the vast majority of participants send in no solutions at all. one easy way to counteract that is to send solutions early and often :)
14:28 colomon or to not sign up.  but that might be a little late for [Coke] .  ;)
14:28 * moritz did so, ish
14:28 moritz send in solutions early, that is
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14:30 FROGGS_ if I would be able to solve these task I would sign up, but I know my strengths ;o)
14:30 moritz oh come on. Generating those haikus isn't exactly rocket science
14:31 FROGGS_ well okay, that one might by solvable
14:31 FROGGS_ but I skimmed through the others and I thought I have to complete all
14:36 masak what gave you that impression?
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14:41 FROGGS_ well, the task with the water... if I dont quiet understand the task description it is not a good sign for solving it
14:42 FROGGS_ and at home with kids I dont have the brain to solve these kind of tasks ;o)
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14:45 [Coke] yah, the water one is currently over my head.
14:45 [Coke] I get the feeling I'm missing some implied problem description.
14:46 FROGGS_ ohh good, I'm not alone
14:46 * moritz feels like he's missing a simple approach to solve it
14:48 [Coke] I really do wish :ignoremark worked so I could use some non english words in the haiku. :)
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14:59 * [Coke] tars up some files for masak.
15:00 [Coke] masak: enjoy, sir.
15:10 * [Coke] tries not to freak out at the lack of instant masakfeedback!
15:10 FROGGS_ we need moar instant masakfeedback! now!
15:11 FROGGS_ ò.ó
15:11 moritz [Coke]: fwiw the answers I got from masak had a delay of up to 2 or 3 days
15:11 moritz [Coke]: so, no worries, all is normal
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15:26 FROGGS_ what is this called: class A { * } and class A { ... }
15:26 FROGGS_ are both valid?
15:26 FROGGS_ both are stubs, right?
15:27 moritz { ... } is a stub, and {*} is an onlystar
15:27 moritz onlystar only makes sense in the context of routines, afaict
15:27 FROGGS_ k, thanks
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15:33 FROGGS_ if someone is interested: https://github.com/FROGGS/p​6-File-Inspector-Namespace
15:34 [Coke] moritz: "onlystar" doesn't appear in specs on or doc site.
15:35 moritz .oO( known to be incomplete )
15:35 FROGGS_ docs are always incomplete
15:37 FROGGS_ someone *cough*[Coke]*cough* should make a ticket or add a good text to the doc :P
15:37 moritz fwiw 'onlystar' is just the name that we use in rakudo for those blocks
15:37 moritz it's not an official term
15:37 moritz but I don't think the specs have one
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15:51 [Coke] moritz: that sequence of characters doesn't appear to be special from spec's POV either.
15:51 * jnthn back
15:52 jnthn iirc, STD uses the term onlystar for it.
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15:52 [Coke] looks like it's used a few times in nativecall refs.
15:53 arnsholt Where in NativeCall did you see it?
15:53 [Coke] S21-calling-foreign-code.pod
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15:53 FROGGS_ there is no proto that I'm aware of, so there cant be a { * }
15:55 arnsholt No mention of onlystar in S21
15:55 FROGGS_ there is none in NativeCall.pm6
15:56 FROGGS_ [Coke]: dont see 'onlystar' in that pod
15:56 [Coke] arnsholt: not "onlystar" - the literal text "{ * }"
15:56 FROGGS_ just the { * }
15:56 arnsholt Ah, right, right
15:57 FROGGS_ thats because the trait does the work of the sub, not the subs body
15:57 arnsholt Yeah, I think that's why jnthn prefers {*} over {...}
15:58 FROGGS_ right, because it is not a stub declaration
15:58 FROGGS_ it is more a kind of prototype for the C call
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15:59 pmurias jnthn: hi
15:59 arnsholt Yeah. {*} will explode when called, but {...} will return a Failure or something like that (can't remember right now)
15:59 jnthn {*} in the multi case means "enter the dispatch". It the native call case it means about the same: enter the thingy that knows how to dispatch to C. :)
16:00 jnthn o/ pmurias
16:00 FROGGS_ r: sub a { ... }; a()
16:00 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 328671 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:146858) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9197)␤called from Sub 'sink' pc 358070 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:158744) (src/gen/CORE.setting:10354)␤called from Sub 'MAIN' pc 464 (src/gen/perl6.pir:170) …
16:00 FROGGS_ r: sub a { * }; a()
16:00 p6eval rakudo e67fa9:  ( no output )
16:00 pmurias jnthn: I'm not sure what to do with the initial serialization context should I create it in javascript or am I supposed to (de)serialize it somehow?
16:00 jnthn pmurias: Which one? __6MODEL_CORE__?
16:00 arnsholt jnthn: Troo. But the way Zavolaj works, the Rakudo dispatcher is never reached, right?
16:01 jnthn arnsholt: It uses wrap iirc
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16:01 jnthn arnsholt: But yes, we never reach the * itself
16:01 jnthn fwiw, if we did it'd just return whatever :)
16:01 FROGGS_ right, but a ... would still be misleading
16:02 pmurias jnthn: yes
16:02 jnthn pmurias: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master​/src/6model/knowhow_bootstrapper.c#L248
16:02 jnthn FROGGS_: Yes, a ... is a bad idea, since it implies "not implemented"
16:03 jnthn pmurias: But yes, it's assembled as part of the 6model bootstrap.
16:03 jnthn pmurias: And never actually gets serialized proper, but it's cross-ref'd from anything that involves a knowhow
16:06 pmurias jnthn: would it be possible to serialize that?
16:06 jnthn pmurias: It doesn't really make sense to, imo
16:06 pmurias jnthn: or should I assemble it when doing the 6model bootstrap in javascript?
16:07 jnthn I'd assemble it when doing the 6model bootstrap
16:07 jnthn It's only a handful of lines of code in C anyway :)
16:07 jnthn It's the way I'll go for JVM
16:08 arnsholt jnthn: It overloads postcircumfix:<( )> with a role, but that might be a form of wrapping I guess
16:08 jnthn arnsholt: ah...ok
16:08 jnthn arnsholt: And that's how wrap is implemented also :) But yes, you're right...I remember now :)
16:08 arnsholt I remember thinking "oh, that's clever" when I first saw it =)
16:17 kresike bye folks
16:18 rurban pmichaud: we plan to rename ops2c to parrot-ops2c until Saturday. nqp and rakudo need to check for it...
16:20 moritz is there a configure option where we can get the name of the executable from?
16:20 moritz otherwise it'll be very hard to make rakudo work on both the old and the new parrot
16:20 rurban no, unfortunately not. maybe probe for both? the new one first
16:21 moritz and then we accidentally mix up parrot installations?
16:22 rurban hmm
16:22 jnthn rurban: Motivation?
16:22 moritz is this change really necessary?
16:22 jnthn Why can't it just be left as it is?
16:22 rurban ops2c is pretty much self-cointained.
16:22 jnthn Who does it hurt as it is?
16:22 rurban because upstream packagers might worry about the namespace we took. and consistency with all parrot binaries
16:23 rurban currently it hurts nobody. but we want to change it somewhen.
16:23 moritz then I suggest adding a configure option for the name now, and do the actual changeover once somebody actually complains
16:23 [Coke] +1
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16:23 rurban ok, or maybe put into a private /usr/local/lib/parrot/version/ops2c
16:24 rurban and keep a symlink to /usr/local/bin/ops2c
16:24 moritz rurban: who would do that?
16:24 jnthn How will that work on Windows?
16:24 rurban no symlinks on windows. a batch file maybe
16:25 jnthn I don't have enough tuits to solve things that ARE problems. I'm loathe to waste them on things that MIGHT become a problem.
16:25 rurban I need to test that first
16:26 rurban well, dyncall and threads are bigger problems now.
16:27 rurban I'll try the ops2c config option for backwards compat and transition
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17:02 masak [Coke]: thank you, sir.
17:03 * masak tries to give the impression of always being online, but sometimes fails, like when he's on a train
17:03 [Coke] ha! I caught you! ;)
17:03 masak :D
17:04 [Coke] contest-appropriate feedback most welcome.
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17:06 masak generally what you can expect is an email saying "solution passes base tests, and has been accepted".
17:06 masak I'll get to it, hopefully during the day :)
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18:02 ph1ur3 woah
18:03 * TimToady stops galloping
18:04 FROGGS_ TimToady: reboot done?
18:04 jnthn o/ TimToady :)
18:04 TimToady no, seems to have regressed a bit, actually...
18:04 TimToady checking data storage pass is back down to about 2% :)
18:05 skids_ .oO(runlevel now "prancing" instead of "galloping")
18:05 TimToady as I mentioned, I expect the reboot to take several weeks...
18:06 * TimToady is actually stuck at the runlevel of "able to make feeble wordplay"
18:07 [Coke] jnthn: yikes. I had such a <adj> weekend, I forgot to look at nqp-jvm-prep at all.
18:08 [Coke] I think "poker-filled" might be the correct adj. there.
18:08 * TimToady is not going to say what he visualized
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18:09 jnthn [Coke]: No worries, I was offline the whole weekend too, just about :)
18:09 jnthn [Coke]: Am finally back home and back to some amount of normality now...or as normal as anything here ever gets. :)
18:09 TimToady hmm, how does Estonia end up with .ee?
18:10 doy Estonia /ɨsˈtoʊniə/ (Estonian: Eesti)
18:10 [Coke] doy++
18:10 TimToady figgered it was something like that, thanks
18:11 jnthn Convenient, given Spain got .es :)
18:12 TimToady they very conveniently avoided giving .sp to Saint Pierre, to avoid confusion; some forethought there, or maybe just luck
18:14 TimToady so two places where they avoided anglo cultural imperialism...TimToady wonders about examples of the opposite
18:14 timotimo also, i hear, "eeeee" is a valid and semi-sensible word in eesti
18:15 skids_ You can say just about anything when falling from a great height and it would be considered sensible.
18:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: 86d1451 | coke++ | / (3 files):
18:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/86d14517f7
18:16 TimToady probably many of the contries in the southern hemisphere are at least colonially biased
18:16 TimToady *countries
18:17 * TimToady hopes he has stopped falling from a great height, and has already bounced...
18:19 * TimToady hopes he has stopped bouncing, actually, but this is not clear yet
18:19 [Coke] pugs: use Test; eval_lives_ok("{use v5;}", "RT #77596 - use v5 in a block lives");
18:19 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«pugs: *** Unsafe function 'use' called under safe mode␤    at /tmp/tD7aD3zqaJ line 1, column 1␤»
18:19 [Coke] there's some LHF for someone looking to get pugs afloat.
18:19 [Coke] can probably write it in p6.
18:20 * TimToady ==> outdoors to get some sunshine, and stop bothering the productive people...
18:21 [Coke] (in fact, there is a eval_lives_ok already it seems. perhaps just needs some parameter cleanup)
18:21 [Coke] TimToady: be well, enjoy the outside.
18:24 jnthn shopping/dinner, bbl; should have some JVM backend tuits later on :)
18:27 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:28 FROGGS joined #perl6
18:31 timotimo is there any way to step through rakudo itself in some sort of debugging environment that shows the original nqp source lines and maybe even allows introspection?
18:32 telex joined #perl6
18:40 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
18:45 mberends joined #perl6
18:45 mberends o/
18:50 * mberends plans to go to amsterdam.pm.org tomorrow :-)
18:53 jnthn timotimo: No; in theory it may be possible to twist the Rakudo debugger into being an NQP debugger, but it's probably not a 1-pint hack... :)
18:53 jnthn o/ mberends
18:53 masak mberends! \o/
18:53 mberends o/ jnthn masak!
18:55 tadzik mberends! \o/
18:55 mberends \o tadzik
18:57 mberends the Rakudo version in Debian Testing (wheezy) is 2012.01, any pointers as to how I can help bring this up to date?
18:59 FROGGS mberends: clone the repo from github or get the zipball from rakudo.org
18:59 [particle] joined #perl6
18:59 FROGGS mberends: then: perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --gen-nqp
19:00 jnthn Well, it's probably better to package a release.
19:00 FROGGS if you wanna twiddle with some modules then you might choose to download rakudo star instead of rakudo
19:00 jnthn Potentially, a Star one.
19:00 mberends FROGGS: thanks, I'm doing one of those right now. I'm hoping to improve the result of 'sudo apt-get install rakudo'...
19:02 japhb_ joined #perl6
19:02 japhb_ ++mberends
19:03 japhb_ Debian packages have the very nice side benefit of "flowing through" to a fair number of popular distros
19:03 mberends o/ japhb yess
19:05 masak rn: my $a = 0; repeat while False { say $a++; redo if $a < 10 }
19:05 p6eval rakudo e67fa9, niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤»
19:05 masak rn: my $a = 0; repeat while False { say $a++; next if $a < 10 }
19:05 * japhb_ currently uses distros at three different layers of that flow, actually ...
19:05 p6eval rakudo e67fa9, niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:08 snearch joined #perl6
19:10 skids_ Using Star gives you panda as well.  Major bonus.
19:11 FROGGS true
19:11 snearch joined #perl6
19:13 japhb_ Has Star been fixed to register all installed modules with panda?
19:14 moritz japhb_: no
19:15 PacoAir joined #perl6
19:18 japhb_ moritz, :-/
19:18 japhb_ ETOOMANYPROJECTS
19:20 colomon joined #perl6
19:21 mberends joined #perl6
19:23 snearch joined #perl6
19:24 FROGGS if I read the following in nqp source, does it mean it maps a parrot function? QAST::Operations.add_core_pirop_mapping('sprintf', 'sprintf', 'SsP', :inlinable(1));
19:24 snearch joined #perl6
19:24 moritz FROGGS: it maps nqp::sprintf to pir::sprintf__SsP
19:25 masak QAST::Operations++
19:25 masak (object-oriented compiler)++
19:25 FROGGS ahh
19:25 FROGGS thanks
19:26 snearch joined #perl6
19:27 FROGGS should I be able to find 'sprintf__SsP' in files? I only get one suspicious result
19:27 moritz FROGGS: you'l find sprintf in parrot somewhere
19:27 FROGGS k
19:28 moritz FROGGS: it might use a different naame mangling convention than PIR
19:28 moritz and it'll be in an .ops file
19:28 FROGGS thanks
19:33 mberends o/ moritz, how are @family?
19:34 FROGGS meh, hunting down sprintf is a never ending story, I cant find its code
19:35 FROGGS ohh, found it
19:35 FROGGS one just has to argue ;o)
19:35 PacoAir joined #perl6
19:36 skids_ Every time I open parrot source files I get thoroughly lost.
19:36 diakopter src/string/sprintf.c and spf_vtable.c and spf_render.c and spf_private.h
19:37 FROGGS parrot/src/string/spf_render.c:418
19:42 moritz \o mberends
19:42 moritz mberends: @family is doing quite fine, thank you
19:42 moritz mberends: the small one is turning 2 on Monday
19:43 moritz mberends: how about yourself?
19:43 mberends hip hip \o/ \o/
19:43 masak \o/
19:43 tadzik Array()!
19:43 masak *lol*
19:43 tadzik r: my @a = "hip" xx 2; say ~(@a, @a.WHAT.perl), "!"
19:43 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:43 * masak loves that joke
19:45 mberends moritz: also well thanks, just back from holiday visits to @family
19:46 tadzik masak++ # the joke
19:46 masak mberends: you in .uk these days? doing .co.uk things? :)
19:47 masak r: my @a = "hip" xx 2; say ~(@a, @a.^name), "!"
19:47 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:48 mberends masak: mainly, but currently in .nl, plan to see Liz and Wendy in Ams tomorrow
19:48 masak nice.
19:48 masak give hugs to Liz and Wendy from me. :)
19:48 moritz from me too :-)
19:48 masak r: say ~("hip" xx 2, (my @).^name), "!"
19:48 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:49 tadzik niice
19:49 jnthn r: say ~("hip" xx 2, [].^name), "!"
19:49 mberends will do..
19:49 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:49 jnthn ;)
19:50 masak jnthn++
19:50 masak (and it's growing more readable, too!)
19:51 timotimo how come you can just write ~(a list) instead of having to write [~] a list?
19:51 moritz prefix ~  is just stringification
19:51 masak when you stringify a list, it gets spaces between the elements.
19:51 timotimo oh, right
19:52 diakopter r: say "hip "x 2, [].^name, "!"
19:52 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:52 masak ooh
19:52 tadzik r: say "hip "x 2, [].^name,"!"
19:52 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:52 tadzik had to
19:53 tadzik r: say "hip "x 2,[].^name,"!" #actually
19:53 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:54 mberends parse challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_B​uffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo (my $son found this one)
19:54 masak ooh, the Buffalo sentence!
19:54 tadzik r: say "hip hip {[].^name}!"
19:54 masak challenge *accepted*!
19:54 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array!␤»
19:55 tadzik that's sort of cheating :P
19:55 timotimo r: say "hip hip [].^name()";
19:55 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip [].^name()␤»
19:55 mst joined #perl6
19:55 timotimo aaw, no amount of postcircumfix does that
19:56 tadzik r: say "hip hip @_.^name()";
19:56 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot use placeholder parameter @_ in the mainline�at /tmp/Vaf3fnui_A:1�------> [32msay "hip hip @_[33m�[31m.^name()";[0m�»
19:56 tadzik :(
19:56 masak timotimo: no, it has to start with a sigil.
19:56 moritz r: say "hip hip @*INC.WHAT.gist()"
19:56 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array()␤»
19:56 moritz r: say "hip hip @*INC.WHAT.gist.substr(0, *-2)!"
19:56 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"'â�¤at /tmp/ZuvDmjCZxg:1â�¤------> [32mhip hip @*INC.WHAT.gist.substr(0, *-2)!"[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        double quotesâ�¤Â»â€¦
19:56 timotimo heh :)
19:56 jnthn r: say "hip hip @([]).^name()";
19:56 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Array␤»
19:57 moritz jnthn++
19:59 masak r: say "hip hip @().^name()"
19:59 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip List␤»
19:59 masak :P
19:59 flussence whee, I just managed to hang chrome by doing "print ([])" in the console...
19:59 masak r: say "hip hip %().^name()"
19:59 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Hash␤»
19:59 masak r: say "hip hip $().^name()"
19:59 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«hip hip Parcel␤»
19:59 masak hip hip Parcel! \o/
20:00 jnthn r: sub prefix:<@@>($x) { $x }; say "omg @@"wtf".uc() bbq"
20:00 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«omg WTF bbq␤»
20:00 * masak .oO( because, ya know, it's your birthday... )
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20:01 timotimo that's pretty crazy, jnthn :)
20:01 jnthn You learn a few things when you spend a bunch of time working on quote parsing :)
20:03 diakopter r: sub prefix:<@@>($x) { $x }; say "omg @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"wtf".uc() bbq"
20:03 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«omg WTF bbq␤»
20:04 masak somehow that just doesn't feel uppercased enough.
20:04 timotimo r: sub prefix:<@>($x) { $x }; my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a;
20:04 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    a used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
20:04 REPLeffect joined #perl6
20:04 timotimo heh
20:04 timotimo r: sub prefix:<@>($x) { $x }; my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @@a;
20:04 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    a used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
20:05 masak timotimo: why do you try to call 'a'?
20:05 jnthn masak: I think timotimo probably expected it to mean @ called on @a
20:05 masak yes, I know :)
20:05 masak just teasing him :)
20:05 timotimo masak: that's like someone punching someone else with their own fist and asking them "why are you hitting yourself?"? ;)
20:05 jnthn Which it never will since <prefix>* will swallow both @s before you get to parse a term.
20:06 masak timotimo: yes... so... why? :P
20:06 timotimo was just verifying if my intuition was correct - and it was
20:06 masak timotimo: and it's not exactly like that, mind. you were punching yourself, and I was just commenting on it.
20:06 timotimo :D
20:08 jnthn Righty, time to write some code...
20:08 rurban Found my nqp problem with an installed parrot: -L. -X. is needed for parrot
20:09 flussence anyone willing to crash their browser to help me reproduce a bug? :D
20:09 tadzik bring it on!
20:10 flussence chrome/ium, hit f12, type "print()\n". It might freeze instantly
20:10 tadzik with quotes?
20:10 flussence nah, just the function
20:10 tadzik nah, works
20:11 tadzik Chromium Version 22.0.1229.94
20:11 flussence hm, I'm on 24.something
20:11 tadzik F12 opens the resource monitor and stuff, eh?
20:11 flussence oh wait, 25
20:11 flussence f12 opens the dev console here...
20:11 tadzik yeah, this sort of thing
20:11 flussence ok
20:13 flussence on mine, it freezes the tab as soon as you hit enter, the tab bar starts acting weird, and opening the dev console on any other page also freezes that. I ended up having to kill processes from the command line to get it working again...
20:14 sftp joined #perl6
20:15 skids_ \o/ Sum now installs clean with panda, jnthn++ for fixing pre-compiled curried roles.
20:16 skids_ Though, the tests run even slower under panda... 511 seconds.  I guess I have unintentionally created a new benchmark suite :-)
20:18 jnthn Real world benchmarks are welcome :)
20:18 dalek nqp/dot-libpath-gh71: 6a9828f | rurban++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
20:18 dalek nqp/dot-libpath-gh71: [GH #71] Add -L. -X. to parrot for newer parrots.
20:18 dalek nqp/dot-libpath-gh71:
20:18 dalek nqp/dot-libpath-gh71: See https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/368
20:18 dalek nqp/dot-libpath-gh71: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6a9828fbd1
20:18 rurban nqp: Ok to apply?
20:18 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "Ok to appl"␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 13231 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:4687) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:328)␤»
20:19 brrt joined #perl6
20:22 timotimo :D
20:22 timotimo wow, skids_, that looks like a lot of work, also high quality documentation!
20:25 skids_ Eh, it's just my equivalent of knitting.
20:30 FROGGS skids_++ # well written code
20:30 masak where is this code of which you speak?
20:30 skids_ You just haven't seen the hacky parts yet :-)
20:31 skids_ masak: panda install Sum... wait... wait... wait...
20:31 FROGGS masak: https://github.com/skids/perl6sum
20:31 FROGGS .oO( dary? )
20:32 masak ooh
20:33 tadzik skids_ | masak: panda install Sum... wait... wait... wait...
20:33 tadzik for a moment I thought you wrote "panda install Sum<TAB>" and impllemented auto-completion :D
20:34 masak and I thought you were speaking to skids_ and me in an or-junction...
20:35 skids_ That's how I read it too.
20:35 skids_ Sad.
20:35 nyuszika7h joined #perl6
20:35 FROGGS is that valid english? https://github.com/skids/perl6su​m/blob/master/lib/Sum.pm6#L5-L6
20:36 PerlJam s/does//
20:36 skids_ FROGGS++ thanks.
20:39 brrt joined #perl6
20:41 FROGGS rn: class A { method b {} }; my $c = A.new; say $c.^can('b')
20:41 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«b␤»
20:41 p6eval ..niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:41 FROGGS which one is right?
20:43 doy rakudo
20:43 jnthn rn: class A { method b {} }; my $c = A.new; say $c.^can('b').WHAT
20:43 p6eval niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
20:43 p6eval ..rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
20:44 jnthn The spec is not perfect, but it is at least clear that what comes back from can is something that indicates the available method(s), and will be boolean true/false.
20:44 jnthn rn: class A { method b {} }; my $c = A.new; say $c.^can('b')[0].WHAT
20:44 FROGGS okay, so both is not wrong
20:44 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«Method()␤»
20:44 p6eval ..niecza v24-16-g89e47b6: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
20:45 jnthn No, because niecza only returns a bool, not a result that conveys the methods.
20:45 doy S32 says that can should return a Callable
20:45 jnthn yeah, that's the weird bit
20:45 rurban rakudo also needs parrot -L. -X. for parrot 5.0
20:46 jnthn S12 suggests it should return multiple results if they exist, iirc.
20:46 FROGGS rurban: -X is executable search path?
20:46 masak r: say Method ~~ Callable
20:46 p6eval rakudo e67fa9: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:46 rurban -X is the dynext path
20:46 jnthn masak: Yes, but .^can returns a Parcel.
20:46 jnthn masak: Of Method, each of which is callable.
20:47 skids_ Well, returning the dispatcher would also constitute returning a list of candidates, indirectly, via introspection, no?
20:48 jnthn skids_: "the dispatcher"? It's only going to hand back stuff from the method table. If one of those is a proto controlling a bunch of multi-candidates, you can also get those, yes
20:48 doy S32 says that it should return a sub that closes over $self and just redispatches, if i understand it correctly
20:49 jnthn eek, and S12 wants it to return some kind of iterator...
20:49 jnthn Of all the things that match the name.
20:49 jnthn So yeah, the spec is inconsistent, as I remembered it.
20:49 jnthn It'd be nice if we could settle on exactly what we'd like it to do :)
20:50 masak what's inconsistent about a callable iterator? :P
20:50 Psyche^ joined #perl6
20:50 jnthn masak: heh :)
20:50 skids_ I guess I don't understand what else would be in the array -- shadowed methods from parent classes?
20:50 jnthn I guess
20:50 jnthn skids_: Yeah
20:50 jnthn masak: Well, I *can* implement something like that I guess...
20:51 jnthn Not sure it's a good idea
20:51 jnthn Hm, guess it may not be too crazy
20:51 * jnthn puts it on the to-try list
20:51 masak I was mostly kidding.
20:51 masak but it doesn't seem impossible to me.
20:51 jnthn No no, too late now :P
20:51 masak and if that's what the spec *says*... :)
20:52 jnthn I think at one point I considered something that did both to be crazy
20:52 jnthn But it feels fairly do-able now
20:52 masak must have been a less crazy version of you thinking that :P
20:52 jnthn Either I'm just smarter or crazier by now :)
20:52 jnthn meh, shoulda known it'd go the crazy way :P
20:54 masak of course. it's like, everybody knows at this point what the light at the end of the tunnel really is. :)
20:54 masak the world comes pre-loaded with a certain amount of pessimism.
20:56 bitonic joined #perl6
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21:06 jnthn Why the hell does eclipse-- still sometimes insert tabs instead of spaces even after I ticked the "Insert tabs instead of spaces" box... :/
21:06 flussence per-file settings?
21:06 jnthn It has...per-file settings?
21:07 flussence I dunno, just throwing ideas around... (haven't used eclipse since 2003 :)
21:08 masak jnthn: as I recall, it has different settings for "indentation" and "vertical alignment". might be something like that.
21:08 jnthn ah, found it...
21:08 flussence oh, separate :sw and :ts settings... :)
21:09 jnthn But of course, I can't just change it.
21:09 jnthn Oh no.
21:09 jnthn Instead I have to clone a "formatter profile", then change the cloned one.
21:10 jnthn Makes sense. Java, the language of excess verbosity, spawns a toolchain where everything requires more steps than is sanely needed.
21:10 diakopter also yes there are project-specific settings
21:10 jnthn o.O
21:10 masak oh joy.
21:12 skids_ Moral of this story: swiss army chainsaws should retract automatically.
21:15 * masak fails to see what that metaphor would correspond to
21:29 FROGGS less steps needed?
21:29 xinming joined #perl6
21:32 masak well, it's tricky. I can see why someone would like per-project settings, or separate rules for indentation and vertical alignment...
21:32 masak the trouble comes when a feature bites you that you didn't even know existed.
21:32 masak I'm not even sure it's a trade-off so much as a difficult problem of design.
21:37 dalek rakudo/nom: c072f82 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/World.pm:
21:37 dalek rakudo/nom: implement the rest of require + indirect lookup
21:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c072f82f96
21:43 moritz timotimo: this works now on latest rakudo:   use lib "t/spec/packages"; my $name = "Util"; require Test::($name) <&throws_like>; throws_like "1 1", X::Syntax::Confused
21:43 timotimo cool :)
21:43 jnthn moritz++
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: ffde430 | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: require + indirect names deserves a ChangeLog entry
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ffde430e84
21:44 timotimo so basically it generates code to join the components with :: and use that as the value
21:44 masak moritz++
21:44 moritz timotimo: correct
21:44 masak 'night, #perl6
21:45 timotimo night masak
21:45 * moritz also retires
21:45 timotimo so the basic principle is to create lots of QAST things if you want a feature to work
21:46 moritz timotimo: if it requires codegen, yes
21:46 moritz once you get used it, it's a rather cool approach
21:46 timotimo if i do get to create that guided tour screencast, i'll make sure to explain where code needs to be generated and when you can just write code that gets run at run time
21:46 timotimo that's a big confusion i have right now
21:47 timotimo also, what code gets run at compile time and what code is still relevant at run-time (which would probably be mostly the same distinction?)
21:47 [Coke] jnthn: we definitely want the settings to be in the project so we can share them.
21:48 [Coke] I can do that part if you tell me what you want the settings to be.
21:48 flussence random idea: a makefile target that precompiles all the spectests to catch precomp bugs
21:48 jnthn [Coke]: If you know how to sort that out, it'd be great.
21:48 [Coke] (or I can just pick saneish defaults)
21:48 jnthn [Coke]: Well, spaces instead of tabs is the only thing I've tweaked from the default
21:48 [Coke] jnthn: i just did this at work a little while ago for one of my projects. Sure.
21:48 moritz timotimo: note that in this case, we just generate calls (to &infix:<,> and Parcel.join), and those calls happen at run time
21:49 moritz flussence: precompiling scripts isn't supported
21:49 [Coke] jnthn: I can add that to the project-specific settings, sure. Will do so after $DAYJOB
21:49 flussence oh :(
21:49 moritz flussence: and most spectests have pretty simple cross-dependency chains, so it's not such a big help
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 7d90a20 | jnthn++ | t/qast_6model.t:
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Basic native attribute test.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/7d90a20e5f
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: b16cdd9 | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/ (3 files):
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Teach P6opaque about inlining native attrs.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/b16cdd9ecf
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 1268e9d | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: A little re-think that avoids code-dupe.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep:
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Also simplifies code generation for an error case that should never
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: really occur.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/1268e9dcc3
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: e5b4604 | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/P6 (3 files):
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Teach P6int, P6num and P6str how to inline.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep:
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: This means that native int, num and str attributes now work with
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: P6opaque.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/e5b46043ec
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 5ed35e9 | jnthn++ | t/qast_6model.t:
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Test native num and str attrs also.
21:50 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/5ed35e97ee
21:51 timotimo at this pace, rakudo should run on the jvm in about a week's time!
21:51 jnthn :P
21:52 tadzik shush, timotimo. Don't spoil jnthn's surprises!
21:52 jnthn There's still quite a bit to do :P
21:52 tadzik yeah, right, you always say that ;)
21:59 diakopter I'd estimate there's around 600 jnthn-hours left before rakudo runs on the jvm
21:59 diakopter (that would be around 6000 me-hours)
22:00 PerlJam either way, whenever it's done, rakudo-on-jvm will come as a surprise :)
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22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 6b81e0e | jnthn++ | t/qast_6model.t:
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Tests for P6opaque box_target handling.
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/6b81e0e2bc
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: f353a12 | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/ (2 files):
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Give P6opaque box target handling.
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/f353a12171
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 1099d65 | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/P6 (3 files):
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Teach P6int/P6num/P6str to be box targets.
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/1099d65a47
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 1ffa9ab | jnthn++ | docs/ROADMAP:
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Remove some completed ROADMAP items.
22:26 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp​-jvm-prep/commit/1ffa9ab303
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23:11 jnthn 'night, #perl6
23:14 tadzik good knight jnthn
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23:24 grondilu I get this when trying to run panda:
23:24 grondilu ===SORRY!===
23:24 grondilu No object at index 332
23:26 slavik1 give it bamboo ...
23:26 slavik1 sorry, the best I can come up with :(
23:28 sorear grondilu: delete stuff and reinstall panda.  you have a problem with your precompiled modules.
23:31 grondilu sorear: which stuff exactly?  There are so much.
23:31 grondilu *many
23:32 flussence first start by blowing away the rakudo install/ dir and doing a clean reinstall of that, then bootstrap panda, and when that doesn't work delete the .pir versions of installed panda modules. It'll work after that, slowly.
23:33 * grondilu removes the install directory
23:33 skids_ joined #perl6
23:34 * grondilu runs make clean
23:34 * grondilu runs make
23:35 grondilu (that failed)
23:35 * grondilu runs perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --gen-nqp
23:36 japhb_ grondilu, make sure you don't still have modules hanging around in ~/.perl6 (the old location for panda installs)
23:36 grondilu nope, nothing there
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