Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-01-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 timotimo that was exhausting, i feel kind of drained >_<
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03:36 timotimo To compile on the JVM backend, QAST::VM must have an alternative 'jvm'  -  does not compute
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04:58 swarles r: "foobar" ~~ /foo<.after bar>/
04:58 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9:  ( no output )
04:58 swarles r: say "foobar" ~~ /foo<.after bar>/
04:58 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
04:58 swarles oh. These moments are why I dislike booting into windows
04:59 sorear swarles: Are you deliberately running a regex that can never ever match?
04:59 swarles I was wondering if <after> was a directive
04:59 swarles since there is <before>
04:59 sorear It is
04:59 sorear r: say "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r<.after foo>/
04:59 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
05:00 sorear r: say "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r<?after foo>/
05:00 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
05:00 sorear n: say "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r<?after foo>/
05:00 p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«Match()␤»
05:00 sorear n: say "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r<?after foo...>/
05:00 sorear r: say "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r<?after foo...>/
05:00 p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unsuppored elements in after list at /tmp/XOmDccn2XF line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r<?after foo...[33mâ��[31m>/[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (…
05:00 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«「bar」␤␤»
05:00 swarles o-o
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05:09 lue .oO(Wait, where did "bar" come from?)
05:09 lue ah, I see.
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05:10 lue r: say "bxr foobar" ~~ /b.r \s b.r<?after foo>/
05:10 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
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08:10 FROGGS morning
08:10 arnsholt o/
08:13 arnsholt jnthn: I won't break all the things if I make the natives use a different compose protocol, right?
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08:47 Su-Shee good morning everyone.
08:47 FROGGS good morning Su-Shee
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09:04 jnthn arnsholt: For the attribute compose protocol, you can safely update CStruct to use it. For the various native types, yes, you can make them use a different compose protocol.
09:04 jnthn arnsholt: Given they don't use one at all yet
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09:06 arnsholt Excellent
09:06 arnsholt 'Cause then the native type compose protocol can be "pass the number of bits I'm supposed to be"
09:09 jnthn arnsholt: I was thinking more a hash of stuff
09:09 jnthn arnsholt: A key of which can be "bits"
09:09 jnthn arnsholt: Because we may need to pass unsigned too
09:09 arnsholt That's probably more future-proof, yeah
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10:03 masak good forenoon, #perl6
10:04 jlaire what's up in Perl 6 land?
10:04 sorear good afternoon masak
10:05 * masak .oO( we may be bonkers, but we do have the same definition of "up" as everyone else ) :P
10:05 diakopter masak: howdy
10:05 jlaire mmkey
10:05 sorear masak: my up is your sideways.
10:06 sorear You're gravitationally stuck to the side of the Earth.  It's so funny.
10:06 diakopter jlaire: be more specific? :)
10:06 jlaire diakopter: I haven't followed Perl 6 in a little over a year, what have I missed? :)
10:07 moritz lots of fun
10:07 moritz improved error speed, error messages, cool features, modules, doc.perl6.org
10:07 jnthn debugger ;)
10:07 moritz a perl 6 coding contest, an advent calendar
10:07 nwc10 most recent fun is that jnthn has started on getting NQP to also target the JVM
10:07 jnthn moritz: we...give errors more speedily? ;)
10:08 moritz much sanity and much insanity :-)
10:08 moritz r: class A is Ing { }
10:08 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�'A' cannot inherit from 'Ing' because it is unknown.�Did you mean 'Int'?��at /tmp/3NdcQfaXhJ:1�------> �»
10:08 jlaire niiice
10:08 nwc10 aye. Is nice.
10:08 moritz see? we even have spelling correction for class names
10:08 FROGGS r: class A is Ant { }
10:08 moritz timotimo++ did it
10:08 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤'A' cannot inherit from 'Ant' because it is unknown.â�¤Did you mean one of these?â�¤    'Any'â�¤    'Int'â�¤    'int'â�¤â�¤at /tmp/e0Rb5FQ5IP:1â�¤------> â�¤Â»
10:08 nwc10 https://github.com/jnthn/nqp-jvm-prep/blob/master/docs/LHF.md
10:09 jlaire nwc10: that's very interesting, too
10:09 FROGGS r: say "abc".subt(0,2)
10:09 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«No such method 'subt' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/HT_7grMRkH:1␤␤»
10:09 FROGGS hmmm
10:09 FROGGS it doesnt handle methods yet
10:10 moritz and it can't easily
10:10 FROGGS it cant? ohh, sad
10:10 moritz because at the time the error is translated into a typed exception, we only know the name of the class, we don't have the class itself
10:10 masak why is that? why do we lose the class itself?
10:10 moritz and since types can be lexical, we might find the wrong type, or none at all, if we try to look it up
10:11 moritz masak: because parrot only thorws error strings, with no payload attached
10:11 moritz well, it throws a number and string
10:11 masak oh hahahah Parrot
10:11 masak suffice it to say that our goals and ideals today differ from those ten years ago... ;)
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10:17 arnsholt The disadvantage of coming back to a project after a long time: "Your branch and 'origin/dyncall-sized-num' have diverged, and have 2 and 509 different commit(s) each, respectively."
10:17 moritz so, you merge
10:18 arnsholt Yeah. I'm just not sure what those 2 commits I hadn't pushed are supposed to do
10:18 arnsholt Or why I didn't push them
10:23 masak moritz: I read arnsholt's thing and thought "so, you rebase". :)
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10:35 FROGGS arnsholt: you could push to another repo/branch to see these commits, before merging
10:36 FROGGS dont know if one can look at commits locally
10:38 moritz sure one can :-)
10:38 FROGGS the question is: how?
10:38 moritz you can do almost anything locallz
10:38 moritz s/z/y/
10:38 FROGGS git is a bit to powerful for my HEAD
10:38 moritz FROGGS: gitk for example
10:38 FROGGS some sort of kde frontend?
10:39 jnthn tk, I think
10:39 moritz right
10:39 moritz tk, despite the name
10:40 moritz the kde thing would be kgit :-)
10:40 moritz (no idea if that exists)
10:40 FROGGS nope
10:40 FROGGS doesnt exist
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12:52 arnsholt ARGH! Python, why U no understand how Unicode works?
12:52 arnsholt </vent>
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12:54 hoelzro arnsholt: what did it do wrong?
12:55 arnsholt hoelzro: String literals are still ASCII even if you specify coding=utf-8 =)
12:55 * hoelzro maintains a Python file named grievances.py for this purpose
12:55 arnsholt Just had to vent
12:55 hoelzro oh
12:55 arnsholt =D#
12:55 hoelzro arnsholt: Python 2, though?
12:59 arnsholt Yah
12:59 hoelzro well, at least they fixed *that* in Python 3
13:00 Su-Shee now they just have to port everything to python 3 ;)
13:00 hoelzro heh
13:01 hoelzro I'm pretty sure that the 2-3 split is in my file ;)
13:01 Su-Shee I still simply have no need for python..
13:01 Su-Shee not even with my open data stuff, because there's R.
13:01 arnsholt Yeah, I'm 1) a slave to my university's IT department for this, and 2) IIRC NLTK is still Python 2 only
13:02 hoelzro Su-Shee: the only Python I've written lately is the Perl 6 lexer for pygments
13:02 arnsholt *sigh* I really need to learn me some R
13:02 Su-Shee arnsholt: like more or less every other library/framework
13:02 hoelzro writing Python was ok, but it kinda gets on my nerves
13:02 Su-Shee arnsholt: it's a-ma-zing. seriously.
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13:02 Su-Shee arnsholt: also, "learn"? you just _use_ it, it's wonderful.
13:03 Su-Shee the only thing I
13:04 Su-Shee hey! enter key1
13:04 arnsholt PCRS =)
13:04 Su-Shee the only thing I'm going to use python for will probably the NLTK.
13:04 brrt Su-Shee: agreed with the R thing
13:04 Su-Shee (which should have been perl a long time ago)
13:04 brrt R is awesome
13:04 brrt (and what is NLTK)
13:04 Su-Shee brrt: have you tried shiny? the web framework?
13:04 Su-Shee brrt: natural language toolkit
13:05 arnsholt I'm a PhD student in a field that at least pretends to care about quantitative analysis, so R is definitely something I should invest in ^_^
13:05 brrt oh, yes, that thing, is pretty nice
13:05 brrt and, no
13:05 Su-Shee arnsholt: we're telling you it's a matter of a weekend. :)
13:05 arnsholt Excellent
13:05 Su-Shee brrt: try the examples and marvel :) http://www.rstudio.com/shiny/
13:05 arnsholt I'll try to get around to it at some point, then
13:06 arnsholt Probably some time around May =)
13:06 brrt oh, that is fr'king awesome indeed
13:06 brrt you have any idea what pain it has been to statistics in a web context?
13:06 brrt probably you do
13:06 Su-Shee brrt: I've just started with R and had within two days a) a shiny example based on stupid simple open data and b) three charts :)
13:07 arnsholt Oh, neat!
13:07 brrt ive used R mostly for offline analysis
13:07 Su-Shee brrt: I know web very well so I know why shiny is cool.
13:07 arnsholt That is pretty much what it says on the tin. Shiny, shiny!
13:07 brrt for what its worth, p6 can easily do what R does
13:08 Su-Shee brrt: then all it's need is a smoothly to use framework ;)
13:08 Su-Shee brrt: I like the ease of R.
13:08 brrt at my university we thought some very non-programmer folks R
13:08 brrt and it went pretty well
13:08 Su-Shee yes, I had to look up some weird list handling/merging/greping stuff but that's all
13:09 Su-Shee brrt: I totally see why.
13:09 Su-Shee brrt: the R book I have: "programming R"? happens on maybe 20 pages of 400. the rest: "just use this and that"
13:10 brrt we used 'statistics using R'
13:10 Su-Shee brrt: also, I'm a political scientist by education, so I see programming still from a "humanities department" point of view sometimes :)
13:10 Su-Shee brrt: I have the R cookbook and R in action
13:11 Su-Shee brrt: I did some chart stuff for a comparison in D3.js - which is as nice as a js lib can get - and it's still at least double the amount of code...
13:12 Su-Shee arnsholt: also, in case you're interested.. R defines "lots of data, large dataset" in the tb range ;)
13:12 arnsholt Always good to know
13:13 arnsholt I'm in NLP, so datasets can occasionally be kinda silly in size
13:13 arnsholt (Even though that's rarely a problem for me personally)
13:13 brrt you know what is really, really, really a shame
13:13 brrt that we can't call python code from perl
13:13 brrt (i.e., NLTK code)
13:13 Su-Shee brrt: no, you know what really the shame is? that python guys went and wrote those kinds of frameworks and we perl folk didn't...
13:14 Su-Shee and nltk is old.
13:14 Su-Shee I've toyed with it end of the 90ies already.
13:15 brrt well, most people were busy writing advertisement delivery software i guess
13:15 Su-Shee still.. we had a decade to deliver..
13:16 brrt true
13:27 arnsholt Sigh. This return to Python reminds me of my semester of fighting Emacs =)
13:30 Su-Shee I pulled the modem cable to close emacs. then I heard of vi.
13:32 * masak .oO( because closing vi is famously simple ) :P
13:36 Su-Shee by then I had a tutorial :)
13:36 Su-Shee so I was well equipped to deal with a real unix. I knew ls, rm, mv and vi. ;)
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14:04 hoelzro is it possible to add arbitrary adverbs for strings?
14:04 hoelzro in the style of Q:exec{...}
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14:11 tadzik hello #perl6
14:11 hoelzro ahoy tadzik
14:11 FROGGS hi tadzik
14:12 tadzik what a day
14:15 timotimo good *
14:16 FROGGS hi timotimo
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14:36 timotimo calling nqp nqp-jvm-cc.nqp --setting=NULL -e "nqp::say('hi from JVM')"  gives me "To compile on the JVM backend, QAST::VM must have an alternative 'jvm'". all tests pass, though. what am i doing wrong?
14:36 jnthn timotimo: Using a too-old NQP
14:36 nwc10 oh, he beat me :-)
14:37 jnthn The cross-compiler tracks NQP master very closely at the moment.
14:37 timotimo OK
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14:40 * jnthn digs back into $dayjob after a walk
14:45 arnsholt Oh, now I see. Finally figured out my diverging histories
14:46 timotimo github has a nice view for that, btw
14:46 arnsholt Oh?
14:47 arnsholt I didn't really want to push stuff onto github when I didn't know what kind of shape the code was in =)
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14:52 timotimo right, but you could have deleted it immediately ;)
14:54 FROGGS is there an nqp op that tells me if a variable is readonly?
14:55 arnsholt Heh. make -j 4 test install had unintended consequences (durr)
14:56 FROGGS I got told not to use -j4 for install
14:56 FROGGS was*
14:58 arnsholt Don't know about install, but being test install, it used one job to run the tests and the remaining three to install =D
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15:10 * arnsholt adds printf statements to the NQP C code
15:13 timotimo hum. i'm blindly copying the MAIN from rakudo-debugger, but i have no idea what most of it means. what are the command line options for, for instance? can't find all of them in man perl6 or parrot --help :|
15:14 moritz there's also docs/running.pod in rakudo
15:15 timotimo not helpful :(
15:15 timotimo https://github.com/jnthn/rakudo-debugger/blob/master/bin/perl6-debug.nqp#L445 - talking about those
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15:16 moritz setting is for providing a setting explicitly
15:16 PerlJam timotimo: -c is compile only, -s is for an alternate setting, -I is to add to the module include path, -M is to load a module
15:16 moritz I: add to include path
15:16 PerlJam timotimo: (at a guess)
15:16 PerlJam :-)
15:16 moritz M is for loading modules
15:16 moritz and -c... what PerlJam++ said
15:16 timotimo and what is this mysterious "s"?
15:16 PerlJam timotimo: s == string
15:16 timotimo huh!
15:17 moritz timotimo: and docs/running.pod does talk about -c
15:17 moritz the =s is a left-over from getopts
15:17 timotimo i see. never used that
15:17 timotimo now it makes sense, though
15:17 timotimo i thought that part was to make the compiler load a setting called "s"
15:18 PerlJam timotimo: it's very similar to Perl 5's Getopt::Long
15:18 timotimo never used perl5 either :P
15:18 PerlJam aye, but the docs for that are readily available.
15:19 timotimo good point. thanks!
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15:20 arnsholt jnthn: prod?
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15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 14c1a6f | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Str.pm:
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: RT #116224, Str.match and Str.subst set $/
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: In case the pattern is a regex match() and subst() will set $/.
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: If it cant match, $/ will be a #<failed_match>.
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Setting $/ is protected by "try" because it might be readonly.
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/14c1a6f58a
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15:53 dalek roast: 7c6bc80 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S05-substitution/subst.t:
15:53 dalek roast: RT #116224 test for $/
15:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7c6bc80ae0
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15:56 dalek roast: 0c9b948 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S05-substitution/subst.t:
15:56 dalek roast: unskipping working tests
15:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0c9b9489f3
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16:14 dalek perl6-roast-data: 07ef9a8 | coke++ | / (4 files):
16:14 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:14 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/07ef9a8420
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16:17 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(.)/, {$0 x 2}); say $/
16:17 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«4242bc␤42␤»
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16:18 FROGGS what?
16:18 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(\w)/, {$0 x 2}); say $/
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16:18 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«4242bc␤42␤»
16:18 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(\w)/, {$0 xx 2}); say $/
16:18 moritz r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(\w)/, -> $/ {$0 x 2}); say $/
16:18 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«42 42bc␤42␤»
16:18 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«aabc␤42␤»
16:19 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(\w)/, {$0 x 2}, :g); say $/
16:19 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«424242424242␤42␤»
16:19 FROGGS hmmm
16:19 jnthn arnsholt: pong
16:20 FROGGS r: $_ = 'a b c'; s:g[ (\w) ] = $0 x 2; say $_
16:20 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«aa bb cc␤»
16:20 FROGGS r: $_ = 'a b c'; s:g[ (\w) ] = $0 x 2; say $/
16:20 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«「c」␤ 0 => 「c」␤␤»
16:22 FROGGS n: say "a b c".subst(/(\w)/, {$() x 2}, :g);
16:22 p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«aa bb cc␤»
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16:23 FROGGS r: say 'a'.subst(/(.)/,{$0~$0})
16:23 p6eval rakudo 35b2a9: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/vNqlx_Om0m:1␤␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/vNqlx_Om0m:1␤␤␤»
16:24 FROGGS rakudo didnt get recompiled
16:24 FROGGS :/
16:25 moritz 35b2a9 looks pretty recent to me
16:25 FROGGS but it works locally
16:26 timotimo different nqp perhaps? ;)
16:26 FROGGS I checked out NQP_REVISION
16:26 moritz bah, feather is SLOOW
16:26 FROGGS not my fault?
16:27 FROGGS I hope
16:27 moritz I have no idea, I haven't had a chance to run any diagnostics yet
16:27 FROGGS 35b2a9 is from before my commit
16:27 moritz load average: 13.41, 8.26, 3.92
16:28 FROGGS uhhh
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16:28 timotimo swappy death?
16:28 moritz yes
16:29 moritz it's a pugs process
16:29 FROGGS \o/ not my fault \o/
16:29 moritz which consumes a lot of memory on a $veryBigRange.pick test
16:29 * moritz killed it
16:29 FROGGS ... with fire
16:29 [Coke] that was me, trying to figure out a failure from yesterday's run.
16:30 moritz [Coke]: and my fault
16:30 moritz [Coke]: in 53c8fe6a824937a1769cc7eeadb4409cde0d17eb I accidentally deleted a pugs fudge
16:30 moritz along with the rakudo fudge
16:31 dalek roast: 44c5f4d | moritz++ | S32-list/pick.t:
16:31 dalek roast: restore pugs fudge
16:31 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/44c5f4d622
16:33 * moritz triggers a fresh pugs rebuild
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16:41 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(\w)/, {$0 x 2}); say $/
16:41 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«aabc␤「a」␤ 0 => 「a」␤␤»
16:41 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say "abc".subst(/(\w)/, {$0 x 2}, :g); say $/
16:41 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«aabbcc␤「c」␤ 0 => 「c」␤␤»
16:41 masak there's something oddly eerie about how removing a line of fudge can slow down the server many of us are running screen/irssi on.
16:41 FROGGS yay
16:41 masak it feels like a violation of the levels of reality somehow.
16:42 moritz a well-placed ulimit would have prevented that
16:42 * FROGGS .oO( and then when moritz repairs it you see the cat walking twice from right to left ... )
16:43 [Coke] moritz: I wasn't running the test under ulimit by hand. the daily spec does, however.
16:43 moritz [Coke]: that's a good first step
16:46 thou joined #perl6
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16:46 [Coke] let me know if there's something else that needs adding to the daily runs.
16:47 moritz I'd just like to encourage users to put a ulimit of maybe 1.5G into their .bashrc or whatever
16:48 moritz because it's usually the process you don't expect to blow up that kills you
16:48 moritz and when does a legitimate process on feather need > 1.5G anyway?
16:51 timotimo 1.5G should be enough for everybody!
16:52 moritz on feather, yes :-)
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17:33 FROGGS r: my $s = "abc"; say $s ~~ s[d] = "e"; say $s
17:33 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«True␤abc␤»
17:33 FROGGS n: my $s = "abc"; say $s ~~ s[d] = "e"; say $s
17:33 p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«False␤abc␤»
17:33 FROGGS I have no idea how to fix that
17:37 FROGGS ... since that wrong True comes from
17:37 FROGGS r: my $s = "abc"; say $s.ACCEPTS( "abc" )
17:37 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«True␤»
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18:05 masak FROGGS: yeah, that's kinda the problem.
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18:22 rindolf Hi all.
18:22 FROGGS hi rindolf
18:22 rindolf FROGGS: what's up?
18:22 rindolf Elections tomorrow.
18:24 kaleem joined #perl6
18:25 FROGGS rindolf: need to lull my kids to sleep in a bit, and thinking about an rakudo internal problem
18:25 FROGGS masak: here the modified string is stored: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Actions.pm#L5008
18:26 FROGGS masak: using a special variable it might be solvable... is there a better way?
18:26 FROGGS brb
18:27 masak FROGGS: I might have misunderstood the issue -- but to me it feels less about "how to implement this" and more about "how to make the semantics consistent between ~~ and s[]"
18:47 tadzik moritz: did you, by any chance, see the Death Star PR videos?
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18:54 arnsholt jnthn: I've made a first attempt at implementing compose in P6int.c. From the looks of it, the function gets passed a list like the rest of the REPRs expect
18:54 arnsholt Is that expected or unexpected?
19:07 jnthn arnsholt: What's passing it the list, ooc?
19:08 jnthn dinner, bbs
19:08 jnthn feel free to gist me a patch...
19:08 jnthn I need to spec these compose things a bit more...
19:24 arnsholt jnthn: I haven't gotten farther than seeing the problem, really
19:24 arnsholt Had to do $dayjobby stuff =)
19:33 masak 'Unknown variable $dayjobby. Did you mean: $dayjob?' :P
19:33 rindolf joined #perl6
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19:34 arnsholt =D
19:35 lacx joined #perl6
19:35 lacx ello perl peeps X)
19:37 masak y0 lacx
19:37 masak welcome to our little cave ^^
19:38 * masak .oO( we've heard rumors that there are things beyond these shadows on the wall. can you confirm or deny this? )
19:39 lacx hey masak X)
19:39 lacx can neither confirm nor deny..
19:39 masak dang.
19:39 lacx were living in the Matrix anyway!
19:39 lacx X)
19:39 rindolf joined #perl6
19:40 lacx I reckon If I say too much Agent Smith might come looking for me..
19:40 * masak .oO( "Mr. Lacxerson..." )
19:40 lacx hehe X)
19:41 masak lacx: how may I serve you? you're here for Perl 6, I presume.
19:41 lacx yea hehe, I actually came in with a serious question.. one you guys have heard a lot no doubt..
19:42 lacx is there an ETA for an official (stable) release of Perl6?
19:42 masak well, you're in the right place.
19:43 masak please specify the length (in minutes) of the answer.
19:43 lacx Ive got all day/night X)
19:44 masak excellent. complete story it is.
19:44 lacx lolzz cheers X)
19:44 masak by Christmas.
19:44 masak BAM!
19:44 masak :P
19:44 masak srsly though, it might be a while.
19:45 masak of course, I'm assuming you know that we have releases going on monthly of two compilers, and have been for the past four-five years.
19:45 masak so clearly *that's* not what we mean by "official (stable) release" here.
19:46 lacx yea I know that X)
19:46 masak right.
19:46 masak so, what *do* we mean? :)
19:46 masak any suggestions?
19:46 masak (yes, this is an interactive story. feel free to chip in.)
19:46 lacx im looking into it from the perspective of a rather llarge company/corporate client..
19:46 masak right.
19:46 lacx i.e. heavy use of Perl (5) right now..
19:47 lacx trying to take the decision whether to start a rather large project in Perl 5, or wait for Perl 6..
19:47 masak so, essentially, you want something that is as trustworthy of Perl 5, and with the same amount of features, and preferably not *much* slower.
19:47 diakopter that's about 3 years away, imho
19:48 masak lacx: from your last sentence, I would suggest Perl 5 immediately.
19:48 diakopter (with current levels of resources)
19:48 lacx yea stability and trust is key
19:48 masak lacx: not because I don't like Perl 6 -- I do -- but because I think you would conserve resources right now sticking with Perl 5.
19:48 lacx fair enough X)
19:49 lacx cheers for your help btw all
19:49 masak lacx: that said, you might want to keep an eye on Perl 6. let's say diakopter estimates right, and we're three years away. then you can spend three years learning about Perl 6.
19:49 masak that will help you when we finally officially make our release by Christmas 2016 :D
19:49 masak (again, assuming that's when it will happen)
19:49 lacx hehe, I was also interested about what happens to Perl 5 when Perl 6 is out..
19:50 diakopter "we're not just usable; we're LTLTA"
19:50 lacx are they developed/supported equally?
19:50 masak when Perl 6 is finally out, all Perl 5 software will spontaneously stop and refuse to ever run again. :P
19:50 diakopter heh; Perl 5 has hundreds of times more resources
19:50 lacx will there be an EOL/time when Perl5 is just obsolete?
19:50 masak lacx: Perl 5 isn't going away anytime soon.
19:50 lacx hehe ;)
19:50 lacx ok thts good to know X)
19:51 masak lacx: I count on being able to get Perl 5 jobs until I retire if I want.
19:51 masak and I'm not that old.
19:51 diakopter masak: you're old!
19:51 masak :P
19:51 lacx hehe oops [agewar]
19:51 lacx lol X)
19:52 lacx thanks for the reassurance masak X)
19:52 masak no worries.
19:52 masak stick around a bit, though.
19:52 masak I want to demo some cool stuff for you.
19:52 lacx ok cool X)
19:52 lacx cheers
19:52 masak r: say "Introducing... $*PERL<name>!"
19:52 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«Introducing... rakudo!␤»
19:53 masak r: say "hi, lacx!"
19:53 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«hi, lacx!␤»
19:53 masak r: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 1..$n }; say 5!
19:53 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«120␤»
19:54 masak r: say 5! # look ma, no cheating
19:54 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/58bieX4dn5:1â�¤------> [32msay 5![33mâ��[31m # look ma, no cheating[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤Â»
19:54 masak hm.
19:54 masak std: say 5!
19:54 p6eval std 7deb9d7: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix at /tmp/DyXdT_OBxE line 1:â�¤------> [32msay 5![33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting infix or meta-infixâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 42mâ�¤Â»
19:54 masak jnthn: rakudobuggable?
19:55 masak lacx: you know about floating-point numbers, right?
19:55 lacx hehe nice X)
19:55 lacx yea
19:55 masak lacx: and how sometimes you divide 1 by 3 and then multiply by 3 and you get something like 0.999998437
19:55 diakopter I'll float your point
19:56 vividsnow joined #perl6
19:56 lacx yeaa
19:56 masak lacx: well, Perl 6 fixes that.
19:56 masak r: .say for 0, 0.1 ... 1.0
19:56 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«0␤0.1␤0.2␤0.3␤0.4␤0.5␤0.6␤0.7␤0.8␤0.9␤1␤»
19:56 masak it's *exact*.
19:56 lacx wickedd
19:56 diakopter taylor series would get a bit.. .unwieldy
19:57 masak :P
19:57 masak diakopter: you can always opt out of the exactness.
19:57 lacx i do like the inclusion of strict typing X)
19:57 diakopter pragma preserve_not_all_the_informations;
19:58 masak lacx: oh, let's show a bit of strict typing.
19:58 masak r: subset Positive of Real where { $_ > 0 }; sub f(Positive $p) { say "yay!" }; f(10)
19:58 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«yay!␤»
19:58 masak r: subset Positive of Real where { $_ > 0 }; sub f(Positive $p) { say "yay!" }; f(-5)
19:58 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$p'␤  in sub f at /tmp/Tjhmgtj2Rj:1␤  in block  at /tmp/Tjhmgtj2Rj:1␤␤»
19:59 lacx niceee X)
20:00 lacx must be a huge rehaul..?
20:00 masak r: role Woofing { method woof { say "woof!" } }; role Barking { method bark { say "BARK!" } }; class Dog does Woofing does Barking {}; given Dog.new { .woof; .bark }
20:00 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«woof!␤BARK!␤»
20:00 masak lacx: Perl 6 is *the* large rehaul.
20:00 masak when people think of Second-System Syndrome nowadays, they think of us and shiver. :D
20:01 masak except when they think about Duke Nukem Forever, but I hear that shipped...
20:01 lacx hehe it could have been so good!
20:03 lacx so OOP is built into the core now?
20:03 masak yeah, it's very central.
20:03 masak in fact, I would venture to say that we advance the state-of-the art on MOPs a bit.
20:04 masak (a MOP is an OO API to the OO system)
20:04 nwc10 The thing that I'm most curious about, is how gradual typing is going to pan out
20:04 masak nwc10: you mean performance-wise?
20:04 nwc10 yes
20:05 masak I'd certainly spend more time putting types in my Perl 6 code if I knew there was a performance win to be had from it :)
20:05 jnthn Error wise is also interesting.
20:05 nwc10 is it going to be "have your cake and eat it", in terms of flexibility between dynamic language, and static speed
20:05 jnthn r: sub foo(Int $x) { }; foo('lol')
20:05 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'foo' will never work with argument types (str) (lines 1, 1)␤    Expected: :(Int $x)␤»
20:05 jnthn That's a compile time error.
20:06 masak \o/
20:06 masak lacx: have you heard about multi subs?
20:06 benabik I think it's working out reasonably well performance-wise based on the usages of things like int, num, and str in Rakudo's setting.
20:07 benabik (Yes, I know some of it is circularity sawing.)
20:07 masak r: multi sub fib(0) { 0 }; multi sub fib(1) { 1 }; multi sub fib($n where { $n > 1 }) { fib($n-1) + fib($n-2) }; say fib(5)
20:07 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«5␤»
20:07 masak heh.
20:07 lacx masak: no I dont X)
20:07 masak r: multi sub fib(0) { 0 }; multi sub fib(1) { 1 }; multi sub fib($n where { $n > 1 }) { fib($n-1) + fib($n-2) }; say fib(8)
20:07 jnthn A lot of use of natives is for performance and memory reasons.
20:07 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«21␤»
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20:08 masak lacx: basically, you can re-use the same name for a sub, but with different parameter lists. Perl 6 will call the right one.
20:08 masak (see above)
20:08 masak it gives a very Haskell feel to the language sometimes.
20:08 lacx Oh yu mean Polymorphism? X)
20:08 lacx cool
20:08 masak polymorphism is when objects can be of different types.
20:09 masak but yeah, the idea is sort of same-ish.
20:09 tadzik I can never remember the meaning of "polymorphism"
20:09 tadzik it always feel like something completely natural, I can't even think of a counterexample to it
20:09 masak tadzik: apples and pears both going into a bowl of fruit. that's polymorphism.
20:10 masak tadzik: or when you call a method on an AST node without knowing exactly what type the AST node is, just that all types have the method.
20:10 tadzik yeah. Because they're like, common descendants of something
20:10 * masak .oO( condescent of man )
20:10 masak tadzik: yes. but with roles, it's no longer restricted to the inheritance hierarchy.
20:11 masak r: role Fruit {}; class Apple does Fruit {}; class Pear does Fruit {}; my Fruit @bowl = Apple.new, Apple.new, Pear.new; say @bowl
20:11 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«Apple<918830095> Apple<918853156> Pear<918865463>␤»
20:11 lacx Ooops im thinking of overloading I think masak
20:11 flussence polymorphism is when you have a bunch of different stuff, and then you do OOP code to it and it all feels very enterprisey and vague
20:12 masak lacx: yeah. multis do overloading.
20:12 lacx cool X)
20:12 masak lacx: in Java or C# there's no special keyword for it. in Perl 6, you have to do 'multi [sub]' or 'multi method'.
20:12 arnsholt Also, in Java (and I think C#), overloaded methods are resolved at compile time. Perl 6 multis are resolved at run-time
20:13 masak flussence: polymorphism is replacing switch statements by method dispatch.
20:13 jnthn r: multi infix:<+>('bear', 'deer') { 'beer' }; say 1 + 1; say 'bear' + 'deer'
20:13 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«2␤beer␤»
20:13 flussence that's a better definition :)
20:13 lacx yea I know Java X)
20:13 masak arnsholt: surely in some sense even in Java, methods are bound at runtime.
20:13 masak arnsholt: and in C# they can be made to, if you do some crap with 'virtual'.
20:13 lacx well they can be, using Reflection I think..?
20:13 masak no no, not reflection.
20:14 masak by default.
20:14 masak dang, we should have a Java eval bot in here. :)
20:14 arnsholt The type-signature bit is resolved at compile-time in Java
20:14 masak (but it'd be quite some one-liners)
20:14 arnsholt Which can have hilarious and confusing consequences
20:14 masak :<
20:15 masak well, it's 2013. it's fine to ridicule Java, I guess...
20:15 tadzik kekekeke
20:15 tadzik a bad example of a language shipped with this nice JVM thing, eh? ;)
20:15 tadzik I still prefer it to C++
20:15 arnsholt So if you have meth(A a) and meth(B b), where A is a superclass of B, which variant is called depends on the type used in your code on the variables, not the run-time type of the argument
20:15 tadzik blergh
20:16 lacx will you be able to use Reflection with Perl 6?!
20:16 tadzik I really like how Go does this
20:16 felher Not to forget about type erasure :) <3 Java ...
20:16 tadzik it feels nice
20:16 tadzik is Reflection another buzzword I don't get which describes stuff I know? :)
20:16 arnsholt lacx: You can do all kinds of crazy stuff via the MOP, yeah
20:16 tadzik it sounds similar to introspection
20:16 flussence and we can certainly do that: https://github.com/flussence/perl6-XMMS2/blob/master/bin/p6xmms2#L7
20:16 jnthn tadzik: it is :)
20:17 * tadzik shakes fist at buzzwords
20:17 masak lacx: the MOP is what allows you to do reflection.
20:17 lacx awesome X)
20:17 tadzik occam's buzzwords
20:17 masak r: class Dog { method woof {} }; say Dog.^methods
20:17 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«woof␤»
20:17 lacx tadzik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_(computer_programming)
20:17 masak lacx: see that '^'? it means "I want to do reflection now".
20:17 lacx its a very powerful principle
20:17 tadzik flussence: whoa, that's cool :)
20:18 tadzik hm, so it's more than introspection
20:18 masak flussence: heh, nice. I did something very similar in crypt.
20:18 flussence .oO( that bit of code seems ripe for making into a role )
20:18 lacx good for frameworks/modular systems tadzik
20:19 tadzik well, it's something that's begging to be abused
20:19 jnthn tadzik: But it's tasty, tasty abuse. Like Grammar::Tracer. :)
20:19 tadzik :D
20:19 tadzik yeah :)
20:19 tadzik G::Tracer is supercool
20:20 felher arnsholt: @method(A a)... : If this would use the runtime types, there is no need for such beautiful patterns like the visitor pattern... Wouldn't that be awkward ;)
20:20 lacx anything and everything is open for abuse really..
20:21 masak that's the spirit!
20:21 masak lacx: I gave a talk about that on the last YAPC:EU.
20:21 Rotwang joined #perl6
20:21 lacx masak: will have to give it a go X)
20:22 masak you can download Perl 6 from here: http://perl6.org
20:22 arnsholt felher: Yeah, that'd be a real shame! ^_^
20:22 lacx how are you going to promote Perl 6 usage? or just gonna let it be organic..?
20:22 masak lacx: well, we have to finish it first... :)
20:23 jnthn imho, the best promotion is people building nice things and getting stuff done in it :)
20:23 bruges joined #perl6
20:24 lacx masak: I mean, a lot of ppl might be dependent on Perl5 code and might be unwilling to make the switch?
20:24 Rotwang hi
20:24 masak lacx: they don't have to.
20:24 masak Rotwang: oh hai
20:24 Rotwang I have a question about building rakudo, what is the appropriate channel for that?
20:24 masak lacx: especially people with lots of existing code I have lots of sympathy for.
20:24 arnsholt This is a good place for all things Rakudo
20:25 masak lacx: maybe they would be happier just interfacing with newer Perl 6 code in some way.
20:25 nwc10 End Of Life on anything open source is semi-meaningless. It's not like anyone can forbid you from supporting it yourself, or paying someone *else* to support it for you
20:25 lacx for sure jnthn
20:25 nwc10 not like closed source, where you don't get those choices - support is only from the original vendor
20:27 Rotwang rakudo version: 2012.12, parrot version: 4.10.0, nqp version: 2012.12, 64 bit linux, build hangs on:
20:27 Rotwang ./perl6 --setting=NULL --optimize=3 --target=pir --stagestats --output=src/gen/CORE.setting.pir src/gen/CORE.setting
20:27 Rotwang Stage start      :   0.000
20:27 Rotwang how can I debug it?
20:27 nwc10 is it swapping?
20:28 nwc10 IIRC it needs about 1G
20:28 Rotwang yes!
20:28 Rotwang nwc10: that was brilliant [;
20:28 lacx masak: my company has lotss!
20:28 Rotwang so how much ram do I need to build rakudo?
20:29 nwc10 Rotwang: it might be obvious, but that question has been asked before
20:29 nwc10 for a 64 bit system, last I measured, I think it peaks about 1G
20:29 masak lacx: yes, and so do many other companies. it's not self-evident at all that all that Perl 5 code should be re-written.
20:29 lacx Rotwang: perms?
20:29 nwc10 for 32 bit, the peak is something like .5G
20:29 jnthn 64-bit builds will happily swallow around 1GB.
20:30 jnthn And...yes, that.
20:30 Rotwang lacx: perms?
20:30 arnsholt I think 1G to 1.2G on my OS X last time I checked
20:30 nwc10 if you don't have that much, then the build will swap
20:30 arnsholt Rotwang: How long did you leave it for?
20:30 nwc10 it does complete, given time. Maybe a *lot* of time.
20:30 arnsholt It can easily take two minutes
20:30 masak om nom nom swap
20:30 nwc10 good point
20:30 tadzik hehe, two minutes
20:30 Rotwang arnsholt: a few hours
20:30 tadzik you guys have fast machines
20:31 nwc10 it can take a couple of minutes *without* swapping.
20:31 tadzik true that
20:31 * arnsholt blushes
20:31 tadzik Rotwang: is that the freshest build around?
20:31 tadzik I mean, git HEAD and all that
20:31 arnsholt Right, at the hours mark, you're probably swapping
20:31 Rotwang tadzik: no, rakudo version: 2012.12, parrot version: 4.10.0, nqp version: 2012.12
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20:32 Rotwang ok it took ~900MB of memory
20:32 Rotwang thanks guys, now I see what is going on
20:32 Rotwang actually I feel a bit ashamed that I didn't check memory consumption
20:33 Rotwang at first
20:33 arnsholt It's an easy thing to overlook
20:33 arnsholt Rakudo is really greedy when it comes to memory
20:34 jnthn It's less greedy than it used to be. At least the trend is in the right direction. :)
20:34 arnsholt Yeah, the trend is definitely good
20:34 jnthn But yeah, needs more dieting :)
20:34 arnsholt And compiling compilers is pretty resource-intensive. As anyone who's built GCC from source knows
20:35 felher indeed.
20:44 tadzik heh, I extended my laptop's RAM from 2 to 4 GBs for Rakudo's sake :)
20:44 tadzik it's a lot better these days
20:45 tadzik when nom was in the early days I was actually shutting down all the other programs to prevent it from swapping that never ended
20:45 flussence mine can do it (just about) in 1GB
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21:08 lue hello o/
21:10 masak lue! \o/
21:13 awwaiid joined #perl6
21:14 lue ooc, has any more discussion occurred on S32::Temporal that I missed?
21:14 kivutar joined #perl6
21:17 masak not from my quick scan of the backlog.
21:17 Rotwang joined #perl6
21:17 masak lue: re plugging in custom calendars -- I'm not too hot on the idea. it sounds like overgeneralization to me.
21:17 masak at some point, you gain exactly nothing from plugging into the existing DateTime framework.
21:18 masak I believe that point comes already when you start talking about lunar calendars or hexadecimal calendars or Klingon calendars.
21:18 lue Yeah. I can't recall what exactly I meant by that. But I agree that plugging in custom calendars is not something we need to worry about.
21:20 moritz we could rephrase the quetion
21:20 moritz if you want to plugin in a different calendar, what would the framework do for you?
21:20 sorear what about lunisolar calendars?
21:20 lue .oO(DateTime::Mayan)
21:20 moritz what about them?
21:21 sorear can we please put slightly more effort into supporting the Hebrew calendar than the Klingon calendar? :p
21:22 moritz you mean, none and nearly none?
21:22 sorear I was hoping for the other way around
21:22 moritz nearly none and none?
21:22 sorear yes
21:23 vividsnow joined #perl6
21:23 flussence .oO( supporting the Hebrew calendar is easy... just fork a PHP process )
21:24 moritz does adding a sentence about a calendar not being supported as "slightly more work"?
21:24 xenoterracide joined #perl6
21:26 masak it's nice to see that temporal bikeshedding is still alive and well ;)
21:26 masak anyway, I plan to add something like a .delta method into the spec when I find the tuits.
21:26 masak and then I might as well go and implement it, too :)
21:27 japhb_ sorear, I was going to make a joke that we may want to support Klingon calendars first because "Jews won't attack you with a bat'leth if you don't comply", until I remembered that the only person I know who speaks fluent Klingon is Jewish.  There went that theory.  :-)
21:28 flussence (oh wait, I misremembered that part of PHP - they have core functions for Hebrew *strings*, not *dates*...)
21:28 * lue also votes for a more useful Duration object (i.e. one I can use to represent arbitrary lengths of time and use in arithmetic operations with DateTimes)
21:28 * masak .oO( mmm, Hebrew dates )
21:29 masak lue: yes, Duration is part of CPAN's DateTime.
21:29 masak lue: part of the reason the temporal spec doesn't have it yet is that civic time is so messy, and I'm not even sure Durations can be made to follow standard mathematical laws.
21:30 masak maybe they can, to the point where you can say "things either behave sanely, or throw an exception".
21:30 japhb_ masak, if by "standard mathematical laws" you mean associativity and suchlike, I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
21:31 japhb_ (Once upon a time, /me tried to write an app that had Correct Time Behavior.  OMG what a rat's nest.)
21:31 masak right.
21:32 masak it's fun to query old Perl hands about horror stories about time. they always have a few.
21:32 flussence rn: say now R- now
21:32 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«0.0215852␤»
21:32 p6eval ..niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«0.00015306472778320313␤»
21:32 moritz rn: say 0.0215852 / 0.00015306472778320313
21:32 p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«141.02007897320871␤»
21:32 p6eval ..rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«141.020078973208718135␤»
21:33 japhb_ rn: say now - INIT now
21:33 p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot use value like Instant as a number␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 293 (Any.Numeric @ 6) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/nsvCTMTS9z line 1 (mainline @ 3…
21:33 p6eval ..rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«0.020357␤»
21:33 moritz nr: say now - BEGIN now
21:33 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«0.0414784␤»
21:33 p6eval ..niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«0.053300857543945313␤»
21:33 flussence REPL doesn't seem to like that version
21:33 japhb_ interesting Niecza bug there
22:01 lue Huh. Can I not use supersede with classes?
22:01 donaldh joined #perl6
22:03 masak 'night, #perl6
22:03 sorear night masak.
22:03 felher o/ masak
22:04 lue o/ masak
22:04 Rotwang left #perl6
22:06 lue how can I supersede a class? Rakudo doesn't seem to let me.
22:09 sorear You can't.  It doesn't make sense.
22:10 lue according to S12, I can, so it seems to me a rakudobug.
22:12 lue (under Open vs Closed Classes)
22:15 japhb_ joined #perl6
22:18 japhb_ moritz, was there a reason that the irclogs don't show the colors produced by p6eval error messages, or is it simply a matter of lacking tuits?
22:24 sorear I thought they did/used to !?
22:27 japhb_ Hmmm, not looking like it to me.  Maybe because I have JS off, if it's a client-side post-processing?
22:29 FROGGS I see colors
22:30 lue irclog colors work for me (even when I turned off JS for perlgeek.de)
22:30 japhb_ FROGGS, within the error messages, as in: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-01-21#i_6357210 ?
22:31 FROGGS japhb: no, there are no colors, just here: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-01-21#i_6356683
22:34 flussence I see lots of mojibake
22:34 japhb_ FROGGS, oh interesting.  I wonder if Rakudo isn't producing colors in exactly the same way as niecza, and thus not getting correct irclog treatment.  (I'm guessing this because Rakudo's colored error support is much newer.)
22:34 FROGGS japhb: looks like the colored text is the one after the --------> and at the time you posted there is no such text
22:34 lue Huh. Yeah, I don't see *rakudo's* colors.
22:35 _ilbot joined #perl6
22:35 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
22:35 japhb_ Yeah, looks like the long arrow was a trigger of some sort.
22:36 japhb_ flussence: and yes, it would be nice to correct the mojibake as well.
22:37 lue That seems to be iso-8859-1 encoded text put through UTF-8 (I can't be sure though, because firefox won't let me switch to ISO-8859-1 on perlgeek :/)
22:38 japhb_ Why would iso-8859-1 text be coming out of error messages?  We're using Unicode characters for things like the eject marker, so encoding at any point in iso-8859-1 makes little sense.
22:39 benabik Looks much worse to me in iso-8859-1
22:39 FROGGS shel escapes for the colors?
22:39 FROGGS shell*
22:39 lue well, I'm thinking UTF-8 ==> ISO ==> UTF-8, irc to storage to browser
22:40 jnthn Maybe it's the ANSI escape stuff
22:40 xinming joined #perl6
22:41 FROGGS lue: then these carets wouldnt be there: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-01-21#i_6358267
22:41 lue that's true. jnthn's idea seems more right then.
22:42 aindilis joined #perl6
22:42 lue std's not getting all its colors either: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-01-21#i_6359200
22:43 FROGGS WE WANT ALL COLORS!
22:43 FROGGS WE WANT ALL COLORS!
22:43 * FROGGS draws signs now
22:44 donaldh jnthn: I'm exploring nqp-jvm-prep
22:45 donaldh trying an nqp loop I get 'No support for result child yet'
22:45 lue r: say "\x[c3,82]"
22:45 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«Ã‚␤»
22:45 lue r: say [c3,82].decode
22:45 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    c3 used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
22:45 lue r: say [0xc3,0x82].decode
22:45 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«No such method 'decode' for invocant of type 'Array'␤  in block  at /tmp/9l3R3bJDSh:1␤␤»
22:45 donaldh jnthn: Is that something it would be worth me trying to hack on?
22:46 japhb_ BTW, are people with terminal-based IRC clients seeing the ANSI colors in their chat window?  I'm sortof wondering if p6eval should convert ANSI ==> mIRC, then have the irclogs understand mIRC codes coming from p6eval.  That way we should see the correct look everywhere.
22:46 flussence I get them
22:46 flussence (in irssi)
22:47 * FROGGS is using XChat, so, no colors
22:47 tadzik no colours in weechat either
22:47 * japhb_ is using xchat as well.
22:47 lue FROGGS: I use XChat too, and I recently got a perl script for colors
22:47 lue (ANSI, that is)
22:47 jnthn donaldh: That one is probably quite easy to add a test for and not too bad to hack on.
22:47 japhb_ lue, ah, now that would be useful.
22:47 japhb_ Standard plugin?
22:48 donaldh jnthn: tests are QAST fragments, right?
22:48 jnthn donaldh: yeah
22:48 lue I believe I got it from here: http://lwsitu.com/xchat/ansi_color.pl
22:48 jnthn donaldh: You'd need to allocate a temporary to store the result in and the get it on the stack at the end.
22:48 jnthn It's probably a 5-10 line of code fix tops.
22:49 jnthn donaldh: What code did you try, out of curiosity?
22:49 donaldh jnthn: once I figure out the opcodes :-)
22:49 donaldh nqp/examples/loops.nqp
22:49 FROGGS r: huh
22:49 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    huh used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
22:49 FROGGS cool
22:49 * FROGGS haz colors now
22:51 xinming joined #perl6
22:52 jnthn donaldh: There's a helper fresh that can do the temporary allocation and load_ins/store_ins. They all take a type, and do the appropraite thing :)
22:53 donaldh jnthn: thanks
22:55 Pleiades` joined #perl6
23:00 japhb_ r: test
23:00 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    test used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 65301a3 | (Jonathan Stafford)++ | / (5 files):
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: implements stat
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp-jvm-prep/commit/65301a38bd
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: 9e4a767 | jonathan++ | / (5 files):
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: Merge pull request #9 from thecabinet/stat
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep:
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: implements stat
23:02 dalek nqp-jvm-prep: review: https://github.com/jnthn/nqp-jvm-prep/commit/9e4a76758e
23:18 zby_home_ joined #perl6
23:18 japhb_ r: test
23:18 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    test used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:22 donaldh “”
23:24 jnthn 'night, #perl6
23:24 sorear night jnthn
23:40 japhb_ r: test
23:41 p6eval rakudo 14c1a6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    test used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:42 Timbus joined #perl6
23:45 japhb_ Patch to ansi_color.pl xchat script so that it works when you're highlighted and when you're PM'ing with p6eval:  https://gist.github.com/4590650
23:46 autumn joined #perl6
23:54 benabik joined #perl6
23:54 sivoais joined #perl6
23:58 lue japhb_: thanks

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