Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-03-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 * diakopter is curious why you can't use p6 in this instance
00:00 colomon too damned slow
00:00 diakopter how much slower?
00:00 diakopter (dare I ask)
00:00 colomon dunno
00:00 diakopter "we'll never know; it never finishes"
00:00 timotimo_ :D
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00:07 colomon the work involves scanning 3gigs worth of files.  I really doubt either p6 implementation can do that in a reasonable amount of time.
00:07 diakopter well, how much ram do you have
00:08 colomon 32 gigs on the new Linux box
00:08 diakopter what kind of scanning? tokenizing? search/replace?
00:08 lue How big's the largest file of the bunch? (Perhaps you can get away with a open/process/close loop)
00:09 colomon well, in p5 I'm just going to scan it.  but ideally I'd parse the files if I was doing it in p6.
00:12 colomon actually, I'm not at all certain how I can easily do this in p5.  parsing makes life a lot easier.
00:12 diakopter usually several layers of split on regex can handle anything..
00:13 diakopter (but of course it's extremely hard on the memory usage)
00:14 diakopter .oO( .. tho if your strings implementation were ropey... )
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00:16 colomon you know what?  I'm going to do the p6 implementation and see what I can learn from that.
00:17 colomon awkwardly, I think step one may be "reboot laptop".
00:17 diakopter your p6 is statically in your kernel?
00:18 colomon errr... no
00:18 colomon macfusion got wedged in a low memory situation, and I'd like to have it up and running so I can edit p6 scripts on the Linux box using TextMate
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00:39 labster r: my $f = "."; say $f.=path.WHAT for ^6;
00:39 p6eval rakudo a98aa7: OUTPUT«(IO::Path)␤(Str)␤(IO::Pat​h)␤(Str)␤(IO::Path)␤(Str)␤»
00:40 labster I feel like something is wrong about that.  Like, calling .Str on a Str is a no-op, and the same with .list, but this cycles.
00:46 colomon rn: say "#341".substr(1)
00:46 p6eval rakudo a98aa7, niecza v24-33-gfc6d5fd: OUTPUT«341␤»
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01:24 colomon OMG this script is slow running in p6
01:29 colomon I wonder why this particular file is so slow?
01:42 timotimo_ there's profiling in place, no?
01:42 timotimo_ would it work in niecza?
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01:47 colomon the script should work in niecza too, yes.
01:49 timotimo_ always interesting to know the factor
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01:57 colomon r: for lines() -> $line { say $line; }
01:57 p6eval rakudo a98aa7: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,␤Land der Hämmer, zukunftsreich!␤Heimat bist du großer Söhne,␤Volk, begnadet für das Schöne,␤vielgerühmtes Österreich,␤vielgerühmtes Österreich!␤␤Heiß umfehdet, wild umstritten␤liegst dem Erdteil du inmi…
01:58 * colomon is completely mystified by the error he is getting from Rakudo
01:59 colomon aha!  thank you, niecza
02:01 colomon woah, Match.perl is next to useless when you're matching against an entire file.
02:18 colomon "here, let me print out this entire file for you, because you matched a line in it."
02:19 timotimo_ hahahaha, awesome :)
02:34 colomon actually using .gist instead of .perl is satisfactory.
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03:10 raiph colomon++ # you know what?  I'm going to do the p6 implementation
03:10 colomon it's running now
03:11 raiph wow. i only just read about it in the clogs. any estimates?
03:11 colomon it's slow, for sure.
03:11 colomon and it's gobbling up memory.
03:12 raiph i'd love to see the code
03:15 colomon https://github.com/colomon/perl6-ISO_10303-21/b​lob/master/bin/step-scan-for-trimmed-circles.pl
03:17 colomon Basically, it's using the STEP file parser (in ISO_10303_21::Grammar) to go through the files looking for TRIMMED_CURVEs which trim CIRCLEs.
03:18 colomon It makes a list of what curve each TRIMMED_CURVE trims, and a list of the CIRCLEs, and then it intersects them.
03:24 colomon afk # sleep
03:24 raiph thx. so you're currently seeing intermittent TRIMMED_CURVE: lines, right?
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03:24 raiph goodnight colomon++ and #prl6
03:39 diakopter wait so how long did it take
03:40 * diakopter will ask again in a few days
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03:57 rindolf «Chuck Norris does not need to heat up food. The food is already hot right after he took it out of the fridge.»
03:59 japhb Because of the constant pressure from his Total Gym sales pitch?
04:10 rindolf japhb: what?
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04:26 diakopter heh
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05:10 Heather joined #perl6
05:10 Heather hello there
05:10 Heather I have a serious question
05:10 Heather How can I speed up Perl6 ?
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05:42 [Coke] Heather: if you want to make rakudo on parrot go faster, you can run with --profile, generate a kcachegrind file, and use that to figure out where it's slow.
05:44 Heather <[Coke]> is is parsebale? :)
05:44 Heather let me paste
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05:47 Heather <[Coke]> how to redirect output ...
05:48 Heather there is something alike 2>1 but I don't remember
05:49 Heather 2>&1 ?
05:50 Heather 2>filename !
05:50 Heather got it
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05:51 Heather [Coke] So here is it: http://bpaste.net/show/83390/
05:51 Heather it's 6558 lines !
05:51 [Coke] if that's the --profile output, you need to feed it to kcachegrind.
05:52 Heather [Coke] I need to get kcachegrind somewhere?
05:53 [Coke] aye. what OS are you on?
05:53 Heather [Coke] linux
05:53 [Coke] should be available in your package manager.
05:53 Heather [Coke] so it's KDE app ?
05:53 [Coke] huh. #1 function is <cycle 2>
05:53 Heather I see
05:53 [Coke] (wtf?)
05:53 [Coke] Heather: Aye.
05:54 [Coke] er, I think so.
05:54 Heather it is
05:55 [Coke] ah, turn off cycle detection...
05:56 Heather [Coke] how?
05:57 [Coke] then you can sort by time spent in subs inclusively or exclusively to look for ones with a high percentage, or a high call count.
05:57 [Coke] View -> Do Cycle Detection (unselect)
05:58 [Coke] defined() is called 408 times, 4% of the app. (infinite is called 140 times, 3.33%)
05:58 Heather [Coke] in kcachegrind?
05:59 Heather defined() ?...
05:59 [Coke] "'2" in CORE.setting is 5.28%. not sure what that is.
05:59 [Coke] Heather: I'm looking at your dataset in kcachegrind.
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05:59 Heather I'm still building it's deps -_-'
06:05 [Coke] Heather++
06:05 Heather [Coke] ++ ?
06:07 diakopter Heather: it's a karma signifier
06:07 diakopter [Coke] was bumping yours
06:07 Heather ah...
06:08 Heather what is Core.settings anyways
06:08 diakopter basically the standard library
06:08 Heather it takes 96% -_-'
06:08 diakopter what's the  '  there
06:10 Heather rain drop
06:13 Heather I'll try to find example
06:14 diakopter example of what
06:14 Heather diakopter smile...
06:15 Heather diakopter http://media.animevice.com/uploads​/0/66/159380-sweat_drop_super.jpg
06:16 rhinux ah...
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06:18 Heather [Coke] it's hard to understand what actually calls CORE.settings that much, but maybe it's perl6 loading basic environment?
06:19 [Coke] Heather: the tab on the right shows you the calles.
06:19 [Coke] *callers
06:22 Heather [Coke] I see but it's still hard to detect what calls it because they are not alike a->b they are alike a->b->c->a->x ...
06:23 [Coke] mmm.
06:23 Heather when I use -e "say 1" it's 64 on metamodel and 33 on CORE
06:23 [Coke] You are now at the point where I would normally say "hey, jnthn, what does this mean?"
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06:24 diakopter I suspect it's seeing the interpreter loop
06:25 Heather metamodel shows no callers
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06:27 Heather profiling is not that easy here )
06:30 [Coke] yah, it's not trivial, I don't think - definitely ping the .eu crowd when they wake up though.  (.eu crowd, consider yourself pinged!)
06:31 FROGGS morning
06:33 Heather morning
06:34 Heather [Coke] and there is trouble, Ok I found big CORE call and I can see all the callers and can detect what caller is problematic but what if I have this caller used once if sub A and once 3000 times in another sub B ...
06:35 FROGGS <Heather> when I use -e "say 1" it's 64 on metamodel and 33 on CORE
06:35 FROGGS Heather: 64 what?
06:35 Heather not sure if I can detect them too if I go to the caller and see if it is used by B much more then by A, but maybe, I should learn it
06:35 Heather FROGGS percents
06:35 FROGGS ahh
06:36 FROGGS I guess this is about rakudo on parrot ?
06:36 Heather yes
06:37 Heather profiling
06:37 Heather originally looking for way to speed up the script
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06:37 FROGGS ya, tried something similar last week
06:38 FROGGS but it is hard to speeden up parrot if you have no knowledge about it :/
06:39 Heather FROGGS why picked parrot? :)
06:39 FROGGS because you only see the parrot C-calls, no?
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06:40 Heather FROGGS no I mean why perl6 main implementation is on parrot )
06:41 FROGGS Heather: ohh I believe the implementation was originally meant to be a C impl., but then it was split up to be able to do Both Things Right(TM)
06:42 FROGGS I'm pretty new to perl6, so it might not be 100% accurate
06:42 [Coke] Heather: parrot was originally intended to be a (the) VM for perl6.
06:43 [Coke] zzz.
06:44 Heather I see...
06:44 Heather [Coke] what about JIT?
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07:12 Heather What's major difference of parrot comparing to llvm and mono ? dynamic typing?
07:16 sorear yeah, parrot was designed to support late-bound languages at a time when mono didn't
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07:17 sorear llvm is kind of misnamed, it's not really the same kind of animal as { parrot, CLR, JVM }
07:17 sorear llvm is a modular native code generator.  think "gcc as a library with a sane interface and license"
07:18 sorear mono's JIT can be configured to use LLVM for generating native code
07:18 Heather I'm making some googling... Allison is not in canonical, right? :)
07:18 sorear mono also has an internal native code generator
07:19 Heather sorear which is using gcc?
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07:19 sorear where did canonical come in to this?
07:19 sorear Heather: nobody who can avoid it uses gcc
07:20 Heather sorear it's just I was googing about parrot, it's developers ....
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07:40 pushkar hi all
07:40 Heather hi
07:40 pushkar hi Heather
07:41 pushkar can someone please guide me with perl6 development
07:41 pushkar I am interested to contribute
07:42 moritz pushkar: hello and welcome
07:42 moritz pushkar: what do you want to contribute?
07:42 moritz pushkar: you can write modules, tests, documentation, help with the compilers, organize conferences, blog about Perl6
07:43 moritz the possibilities are endless. It really depends on your strengths and preferences
07:43 pushkar Moritz.. thank you so much.. I have production exposure in perl...
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07:45 Heather then good idea will be start with porting perl5 libraries :) Just my guess.
07:45 pushkar i am interested in developing modules.. but i am really a newbie related to perl6 development procedures
07:45 pushkar that sounds good to me..
07:46 moritz the development procedure is just like in any other languages: write a bit of code and tests, run the tests, fix the code until the tests pass. Then iterate. :-)
07:47 pushkar WOW.. Very good Moritz.. I will start here on :) thanks again....
07:48 moritz http://wiki.perl6.org/Create%​20and%20Distribute%20Modules might also be of interested
07:48 moritz pushkar: and do feel free to ask questions here, we always try to be helpful
07:48 labster pushkar: you can see what we already have at  http://modules.perl6.org/   If you need some inspiration, there's a list of most wanted modules here: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-most-wan​ted/blob/master/most-wanted/modules.md
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07:50 labster I've been working on modules and it's been a lot of fun.
07:50 pushkar It is of immense relief to me moritz.. You made me comfortable on this IRC.. I will surely get in touch with you.. Let me first  go through all links..
07:50 pushkar Labster : Thanks alot
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08:20 tadzik good morning #perl6
08:21 Heather tadzik morning
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08:51 kresike hello all you happy and/or unhappy perl6 people
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09:01 jnthn morning o/
09:01 moritz \o jnthn
09:02 arnsholt 'lo jnthn
09:13 hoelzro JSON::Tiny takes 2 minutes to decode a 818K JSON file =(
09:13 tadzik did you try profiling?
09:13 hoelzro I intend to =)
09:14 hoelzro ...does Rakudo Star come with a profiler?
09:14 tadzik yes
09:14 tadzik perl6 --profile
09:14 tadzik then push the output in (k|q)cachegrind's throat :)
09:15 tadzik we should advertise built-in profiler as a kickass feature :)
09:15 Liz joined #perl6
09:15 hoelzro I'll try it out in a bit!
09:19 moritz mls++ deserves most credit for the profiler
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 73ca26a | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: this makes &?ROUTINE available in regex foo { ... }.
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/73ca26a8b3
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: f440d46 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: don't give &?ROUTINE to /.../ regexes.
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f440d46722
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 3536942 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #116 from timo/ROUTINE_in_regex
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: Routine in regex/token/rule
09:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/35369421db
09:26 labster JSON::Tiny is about 20% faster than XML for loading ~15kB number formatting files, so I translated the files and started using it instead.
09:26 Heather yeah profiling
09:27 labster But that's only a drop from 5 to 4 seconds.
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09:32 nwc10 moritz: nearest U-bahn to the German Perl Workshop - Moritzplatz
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09:46 hoelzro what's the licensing for the Camelia logo?
09:46 jnthn hoelzro: Click the image on perl6.org, it takes you to info about it
09:47 hoelzro ah =/
09:47 dakkar joined #perl6
09:48 hoelzro well, that's good; I was thinking of using the logo for a site for Perl 6 help
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09:53 Heather tadzik I'm not sure but does all perl6 stuff must be installed in parrot site folder? panda too?
09:54 Heather I mean /usr/lib/parrot/5.1.0/languages/perl6/site
09:56 tadzik Heather: no, you can choose to install it elsewhere :)
09:56 tadzik gtg now, bbl
09:57 jnthn errand, bbi30, then should have time to do some Perl 6 stuff :)
09:58 nwc10 at which point the yellow light on the goalposts will start to rotate? And everyone should stand back?
10:01 Heather elsewhere
10:01 Heather where package manager must to install it ...
10:11 hoelzro I'm guessing .accepts_type is called on the HOW object when testing a value against a type signature?
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10:23 hoelzro how can I create a class that uses a custom metaobject?  is there syntax for it, or should I just invoke a method on the metaobject to create the new class?
10:26 rindolf Hi all.
10:27 moritz hoelzro: the latter
10:27 hoelzro ok, I figured =)
10:27 hoelzro rindolf: ahoy
10:28 rindolf hoelzro: what's up?
10:29 hoelzro nothing much
10:29 hoelzro just working, musing about Perl 6 stuff =)
10:29 Liz joined #perl6
10:32 hoelzro if I want to return multiple hashes, what's the right way to return them/destructure them?
10:32 hoelzro ex. return (%server-filters, %client-filters)
10:32 hoelzro my ( $server, $client ) = get-filters;
10:32 Heather hoelzro panda doesn't support destdir aswell?
10:32 hoelzro Heather: it does!
10:32 hoelzro via DESTDIR
10:32 Heather hoelzro it's prefix though
10:33 Heather hoelzro prefix named wrong imo
10:37 Heather hoelzro or am I wrong?
10:37 hoelzro prefix is typically considered the "prefix" of the final install location
10:38 hoelzro DESTDIR is typically where make install will install things
10:38 Heather hoelzro what about $destdir  = $prefix;
10:38 hoelzro if $prefix is '/usr/local'
10:38 hoelzro then everything will be installed under /usr/local/usr/local/...
10:39 Heather hoelzro no...
10:39 hoelzro ?
10:40 Heather hoelzro https://gist.github.com/tadzik/5132411
10:40 Heather hoelzro actually it will be installed under /usr/local
10:41 hoelzro I'm not sure how to interpret that gist...
10:42 Heather hoelzro ok ... let start with example. examine you want it on /usr/bin on your system and on /mounted/usr/bin
10:42 hoelzro wait, why both?
10:43 Heather no matters...
10:43 Heather logically prefix is /usr/bin and destdir is / first time and /mounted second time
10:44 hoelzro prefix is most likely /usr
10:44 Heather yes
10:44 Heather agreed
10:44 Heather hoelzro but does prefix works for panda?
10:44 hoelzro Heather: I don't know
10:44 hoelzro I just know that DESTDIR does
10:45 Heather hoelzro what do you use as destdir?
10:45 Heather I hope that it is not /usr :)
10:45 hoelzro Heather: I haven't tried it yet, but since I'll be using panda to create packages, I would use the packaging directiroy
10:45 hoelzro *directory
10:45 Heather I see...
10:47 Heather what is cwd anyways?
10:48 hoelzro for me, it's where I have the package spec file
10:48 jnthn hoelzro: on meta-programming stuff, see http://jnthn.net/papers/201​2-gpw-meta-programming.pdf
10:49 hoelzro thanks jnthn
10:52 Heather hoelzro whats $!x
10:52 hoelzro private member
10:53 Heather thanks
10:55 Heather hoelzro it's the problem because I want to make panda to use separated destdir and prefix but I'm not sure if I understand existing content, that's why I'm asking about that
10:56 hoelzro ok, so what are you trying to accomplish?
10:56 Heather hoelzro does it support destdir and must it be implemented or not
10:57 hoelzro from what I've seen, it already supports destdir
10:58 Heather then I need to know about custom prefix then
11:00 hoelzro so what do you need custom prefix for?
11:00 Heather hoelzro to install it somewhere alike /usr
11:01 hoelzro Heather: ok, what's your final goal?
11:01 Heather hoelzro nothing but clarity
11:01 hoelzro so you're curious?
11:02 hoelzro I'm just trying to understand what you're trying to do =)
11:03 Heather hoelzro I should give you a freebsd link to this question
11:03 Heather hoelzro http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/​porters-handbook/porting-prefix.html
11:04 Heather hoelzro it's how things going in usual
11:04 colomon diakopter: "How long did it take?"  I left it running before I went to bed.  It's still running now.  So far it's run against 59 files of 72, but I sorted them so the smallest went first.  It's found two files that actually have the characteristics I'm looking for.
11:04 nwc10 jnthn: :-(
11:05 nwc10 t/nqp/49-regex-interpolation.t .. 1/37 Unhandled exception: java.lang.NullPointerException in !INTERPOLATE_REGEX in <anon> in parse in ACCEPTS in <anon> in <anon>
11:05 Heather portage (gentoo package manager) is designed to use destdir. all the source based package managers use it. and when destdir is the same as prefix then it's just prefix named wrong.
11:05 hoelzro oooh ok
11:05 hoelzro I'm not sure if panda supports prefix
11:05 hoelzro I think it uses whatever prefix Rakudo was installed with
11:06 Heather tadzik ping
11:06 Heather hoelzro ufo does, but I can't see same on panda
11:06 hoelzro I'm not sure about panda, but I remember that ufo indeed does
11:06 hoelzro but ufo, iirc, doesn't support destdir =(
11:07 Heather hoelzro O'rly? :)
11:07 hoelzro (iirc)
11:07 Heather hoelzro https://github.com/masak/ufo/pull/5
11:07 hoelzro oh, I saw that =)
11:08 Heather hoelzro and because of comment there I'm not sure if panda does :)
11:09 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 31 commits to rakudo/md-nqp by jnthn
11:09 jnthn nwc10: Which test target?
11:10 nwc10 good question. Working that out
11:10 jnthn nwc10: I have a suspicion that file will only work on the self-host, not the cc
11:10 jnthn nwc10: Because it basically does an eval.
11:10 nwc10 I think it's the cc
11:10 jnthn nwc10: Which needs the compiler available in-process.
11:11 Heather hoelzro I'm about to finish patch to make panda support prefix in the same way.
11:11 nwc10 given that it was just below a failure on test 46, which is the one that needs ICU for the cross compiler, but passes natively
11:11 Heather hoelzro I hope that I do it correct
11:11 nwc10 but I'm checking
11:11 jnthn nwc10: Maybe it's time for me to make "make test" be what "make selftest" is now
11:11 jnthn nwc10: At this point, that's the target that really matters.
11:11 hoelzro I'm not sure adding prefix to panda is such a good idea
11:11 Heather hoelzro I'm not sure too
11:11 hoelzro panda figures out its prefix from where the perl6 executable will find modules
11:12 Heather hoelzro that's why I'm asking )
11:12 hoelzro putting them elsewhere might get confusing
11:12 hoelzro but it'd be nice for something like local::lib
11:12 Heather ...
11:13 Heather hoelzro basically final path is destdir + prefix so you still can use destidr as prefix if you wish
11:13 hoelzro I don't know about that
11:14 hoelzro if I set DESTDIR=~/perl6
11:14 hoelzro and do a panda install something
11:14 hoelzro something will be installed to ~/perl6//usr/local/Cellar/rakudo-star/2013.0​2/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib or something like that
11:16 Heather hoelzro it's correct...
11:16 hoelzro I would not consider that correct
11:17 hoelzro how you are you supposed to know what to provide to use lib to use that path?
11:17 hoelzro it's specific to the Rakudo star version, as well as the parrot version
11:18 hoelzro you'd have to add ~/perl6/usr/local/Cellar/rakudo-star/​*/lib/parrot/*/languages/perl6/*/lib to @*INC
11:18 Heather hoelzro it's added
11:18 hoelzro where is it added?
11:18 Heather hoelzro and it's default path.
11:19 Heather hoelzro when you install rakudo or parrot it's added.
11:19 nwc10 jnthn: yes, it's nqptest that fails. test and selftest pass
11:19 hoelzro Heather: but that path is not in @*INC
11:20 hoelzro that's why I'm saying specifying a prefix is not a good idea
11:20 Heather hoelzro it will be specified by default if you will not set it
11:21 Heather hoelzro at least ufo makes so
11:21 hoelzro I could specify ~/perl6, /tmp/, /var/tmp/perl6, /foo/bar/baz as the destdir
11:21 hoelzro and @*INC wouldn't contain all of them
11:21 Heather I don't get last point
11:22 hoelzro I think I kind of lost track of what I was trying to say =P
11:22 hoelzro ok, hang on
11:22 hoelzro I have to think, heh
11:22 hoelzro I know I read this: hoelzro basically final path is destdir + prefix so you still can use destidr as prefix if you wish
11:23 hoelzro and that didn't seem right to me
11:23 Heather hoelzro https://github.com/tadzik/panda/pull/37
11:24 hoelzro ok
11:25 Heather it needs some testing still and I'm not sure how is it now, both flags destdir and prefix must be optional for installer
11:27 moritz regarding the destdir stuff
11:27 moritz IMHO panda should install to the same destdir as rakudo was
11:27 moritz because then rakudo will find the modules
11:27 moritz so I don't see why panda need patches at all
11:27 moritz what's the value of installing to some location where rakudo can't find the modules?
11:28 Heather moritz another distribution
11:28 * moritz doesn't understand that answer
11:28 Heather moritz I can use same package manager to install package for several running operating systems
11:29 moritz ah
11:29 moritz bootstrapping, so to say
11:29 Heather moritz ?
11:34 Heather bonsaikitten what do you think?
11:37 Heather hoelzro by the way it's possible to avoid conflicts with panda deps ( if we don't use --nodeps ) by using blocking packages. so user will be warned and will desire what to use filetools or panda.
11:38 hoelzro ah
11:38 hoelzro moritz: I think customizing destdir is ok, prefix I'm not sure
11:39 hoelzro for building packages, I need to do DESTDIR=$pkgdir panda install $pkg
11:40 Heather when you say destdir you mean prefix
11:40 hoelzro I'll be back in a bit
11:40 hoelzro lunch time
11:40 Heather or not )
11:40 hoelzro then we can discuss prefix vs destdir =)
11:41 Heather we can't I will go to own birthday party -_-'
11:42 Heather left #perl6
11:47 ruoso hoelzro: DESTDIR is a well-defined installation override that is used specifically to say "pretend as if the root of the filesystem was here"
11:49 ruoso PREFIX has a meaning which I think was established by autotools, to specify the common things between the libdir, the bindir and the includedir. I.e.: $prefix/lib $prefix/include $prefix/bin
11:51 ruoso moritz: the reason to allow separate installation of modules is the same reason why local::lib exists. You want to be able to say: "the dependencies for my application can be found in this directory"
11:52 ruoso so you can manage and deploy such dependencies independently from the system-wide install as well as indepenedent from other applications.
11:53 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
11:53 ruoso this gets slightly more complicated if you have bytecode being generated as well as native bindings, because then your installation need to be made abi-awaer
11:53 ruoso which is why perl5 has the arch-specific dir inside the deployment area
12:06 Heather joined #perl6
12:07 ruoso Heather: please backlog, I've made some comments about the previous discussion
12:07 Heather ruoso backlog? how?
12:07 moritz http://irc.perl6.org/
12:09 Heather Heather I see
12:09 * Heather is speaking with self
12:11 Heather rurban I only afraid install syntax and related stuff compatibility
12:12 jnthn Heather: Did you mean ruoso? :)
12:12 Heather yes
12:13 Heather ruoso and early it was Panda::Installer.new(resources => $r, destdir => $destdir); now it's Panda::Installer.new(resources => $r, destdir => $destdir, prefix => $prefix);
12:14 Heather but should be fine.... if :$ means optional and it is iirc
12:15 ruoso I guess what I am trying to say is that it would be a shame if panda didn't incorporate the ability of local:::lib
12:32 dalek nqp: b0b3603 | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
12:32 dalek nqp: Implement nqp::captureposprimspec.
12:32 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b0b360312e
12:32 dalek nqp: 079592c | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
12:32 dalek nqp: Add nqp::captureexistsnamed.
12:32 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/079592c6e1
12:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: ab0d7bd | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
12:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Named args and constraints in NQP-based disptacher
12:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab0d7bde47
12:41 rindolf joined #perl6
12:44 timotimo_ thanks for merging my stuff :)
12:45 jnthn timotimo_: Thanks for your stuff :)
12:49 [Coke] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15382133/​are-perl5-libraries-are-importable-in-perl6
12:52 arnsholt jnthn: To return to my question from last night (turned out that it was bedtime =), what I want is for nqp::list to return a new VMArray, rather than a QRPA. Should I do that as a new op in nqp.ops or by generating QAST in QAST/Operations.nqp?
12:54 jnthn arnsholt: The way NQPJVM does it is by desugaring it to nqp::create(nqp::hlllist()) or so
12:54 jnthn (and then adding the elements)
12:55 jnthn arnsholt: That in turn hangs off having some configuration/mapping.
12:56 arnsholt Yeah, that makes sense
12:56 jnthn Largely, I'd say see the way we do it over in nqp jvm
12:56 jnthn However, a word of caution: a lot of stuff currently depends on the thing being a PMC, not some 6model object.
12:57 jnthn This is all gonna have to be solved Very Soon anyway because we need it for the JVM stuff
12:57 arnsholt That's good to know. I've started a branch locally, so I shouldn't break stuff randomly
12:57 jnthn *nod*
12:57 hoelzro ruoso: I know, I was trying to relate that, but doing a poor job of it =/
12:57 lue joined #perl6
12:58 * ruoso commute &
12:58 hoelzro I think local::lib (or something like it) support for panda would be nice, but it's not urgent
12:58 arnsholt jnthn: But ripping out QRPA entirely is an acceptable goal, right?
13:01 jnthn arnsholt: Yes, in so far as it'll promote things being more standard between backends.
13:01 jnthn arnsholt: And of course we can start looking at native types.
13:01 jnthn arnsholt: er, natively typed arrays I mean
13:01 arnsholt Yeah, sure
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13:03 arnsholt I've noticed NQP/Parrot has list_i and friends. That the way you want to do it permanently, or something more parametric-y?
13:04 jnthn I've ended up with them over on the JVM port too. They boil down to a handful of types that parameterize the REPR appropriately, though.
13:05 arnsholt Right. I'll go with that for the time being, then
13:08 Heather left #perl6
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13:25 hoelzro hmm
13:26 hoelzro JSON::Tiny is pretty fast at parsing JSON if it's mostly whitespace.
13:27 jnthn git diff
13:27 jnthn oops
13:27 lue joined #perl6
13:28 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: c2fb4bc | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
13:28 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Give NQP-based dispatcher support for 'is default'
13:28 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c2fb4bcaac
13:28 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 8f645ee | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
13:28 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Get junction failover into multi-dispatcher.
13:28 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8f645ee6cb
13:28 nyuszika7h joined #perl6
13:29 nwc10 not sure if this is a stupid or RTFM question - rakudo/md-nqp is attempting to port as much of the multidispatch code as makes sense from PIR to NQP?
13:29 jnthn nwc10: From *C* to NQP
13:29 nwc10 aha
13:29 nwc10 I like self hosting
13:30 nyuszika7h joined #perl6
13:31 jnthn The theory is that most multi-dispatches are simple enough to have the outcome cached
13:31 jnthn And those that aren't involve invoking constraints or doing trial-bindings of signatures.
13:32 jnthn So those where the cache applies get pretty much no extra overhead, and those where we are doing more work in NQP, not C, will have more work to lose the extra cost in.
13:33 srini joined #perl6
13:36 jnthn Also avoids a bunch of inferior runloops
13:44 kaleem joined #perl6
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13:48 hoelzro it would seem that JSON::Tiny is so slow because of object creation
13:48 jnthn "object creation" is pretty generic
13:48 jnthn Match object creation?
13:48 jnthn Or something more specific?
13:48 hoelzro well, as a test, I decoded this:
13:49 hoelzro '[' . join(',' ('{}') x 100_000) . ']'
13:49 hoelzro which took a while
13:49 hoelzro this one, however:
13:49 hoelzro '[' . join(',' ('true') x 100_000) . ']'
13:49 hoelzro took a lot less time
13:49 JimmyZ_ joined #perl6
13:49 JimmyZ_ Good evening, #perl6
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: f4b352b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Correct sentinel.
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f4b352b9dc
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 4c470a1 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Invalidate sort order as needed.
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4c470a1e26
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 136dc0b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fix compiler thunk checking.
13:50 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/136dc0be30
13:50 LlamaRider joined #perl6
13:50 jnthn o/ JimmyZ_
13:50 nwc10 I'm getting spectests currently on Rakudo HEAD
13:50 jnthn nwc10: spectest *fils*?
13:51 jnthn *fils*
13:51 jnthn FAILS!
13:51 nwc10 them yes
13:51 nwc10 t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo
13:51 jnthn ...
13:51 nwc10 t/spec/S32-num/rat.rakudo
13:51 nwc10 plus a bunch of TODO passes
13:51 am0c joined #perl6
13:52 timotimo_ nwc10: could you be more specific?
13:53 timotimo_ or i could just boot up my machine and do them myself
13:53 JimmyZ hi jnthn ;)
13:53 nwc10 er, hangon, just nuked the build tree and rebuilding
13:53 nwc10 so "there will be a delay"
13:55 jnthn My Rakudo tree just switched from using C-based mutli-dispatch to the NQP one, so you can imagine I have some failures ;)
13:55 nwc10 I do need to check *which* HEAD I was playing with
13:55 lue joined #perl6
13:58 lichtkind joined #perl6
13:58 lichtkind ping jnthn
13:59 skids joined #perl6
13:59 lichtkind have rakudo compile error just want to know where to post
14:01 JimmyZ rt ?
14:02 xinming_ joined #perl6
14:03 lichtkind http://pastebin.com/35N6aaN8
14:03 lichtkind yes your right jimmy
14:04 xinming joined #perl6
14:05 JimmyZ pastebin is blocked by gfw :(
14:06 alester joined #perl6
14:06 JimmyZ or https://gist.github.com/  ?
14:07 lichtkind yes that is better
14:07 lichtkind but i already submitted under rakudobug
14:08 hoelzro ok, apparently hash creation is pretty expensive?
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14:16 LlamaRider doing another P5 to P6 port here -- when I am in class Foo and "use Foo::Bar" with the usual P5 setup in which class Bar is in Foo/Bar.pm6, I get an error.
14:17 LlamaRider I am pretty sure I don't understand :: any longer
14:18 JimmyZ what's the error message?
14:18 LlamaRider the error is: Merging GLOBAL symbols failed: duplicate definition of symbol Bar
14:18 JimmyZ could you paste the code?
14:19 moritz "in which class Bar is in Foo/Bar.pm6"
14:19 moritz that's not quite the usual setup
14:19 moritz it's usual for Foo::Bar to be in Foo/Bar.pm6
14:19 LlamaRider moritz: that's what I meant, Foo::Bar is in Foo/Bar.pm6
14:19 LlamaRider JimmyZ: let me make a minimal example first
14:20 JimmyZ or push the code to the github ;)
14:22 LlamaRider never mind, I figured it out and it was something embarrassing :D
14:23 Psyche^ joined #perl6
14:23 JimmyZ ;P
14:23 LlamaRider copy-pasted Bar in Baz and didn't rename it to Baz, so the error was to the point - I was loading class Foo::Bar twice
14:25 jnthn bbi30
14:28 rindolf LlamaRider: hi, are you new here?
14:29 LlamaRider hi rindolf. I wouldn't say I am new-new, but I haven't been consistently around. I've ported one CPAN module to P6 until now, and am learning more by porting a few others.
14:30 rindolf LlamaRider: ah, OK.
14:30 rindolf LlamaRider: I've ported some code of my own (Project Euler/etc.)
14:30 rindolf Not sure my P6 is very idiomatic.
14:31 LlamaRider I'd love to port some of my projects to P6, but I need a lot of CPAN before I can get there... So doing that first
14:32 rindolf LlamaRider: BTW, my /part message is still "Yay, I'm a llama again!" which is taken from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5GjhMMPM00
14:32 rindolf LlamaRider: I'm an individual of many species.
14:32 rindolf LlamaRider: OK, put the horse before the cart.
14:32 LlamaRider :D awesome
14:33 rindolf LlamaRider: I like Llamas.
14:34 colomon joined #perl6
14:35 LlamaRider I'm afraid I am no Llama expert myself, but I'm quite fond of Perl :)
14:36 * hoelzro has no idea how to interpret the results from perl6 --profile
14:37 Heather joined #perl6
14:40 kaare__ joined #perl6
14:41 census joined #perl6
14:41 arnsholt hoelzro: kcachegrind
14:42 hoelzro arnsholt: ah, thanks!
14:43 LlamaRider Are there export tags for P6? If not I will probably just export everything in the "all" tag. I'm not even sure how useful of a feature that is in P5.
14:44 moritz LlamaRider: yes
14:44 moritz you can say  sub foo() is export(:a, :b) { };
14:44 moritz and then   use YourModule :a;
14:44 LlamaRider moritz: cool! thanks
14:52 szabgab joined #perl6
14:54 szabgab hi,  I've tried to build Rakudo on Windows from source and failed, so I installed the Rakudo * MSI   - I think it suits my needs better anyway...
14:54 szabgab A couple of things, I hope someone here might be able to help me:
14:54 lichtkind joined #perl6
14:55 szabgab http://rakudo.org/2013/02/24/​rakudo-star-2013-02-released/  has an "href" that is not a real link, I wonder if that's on purposed?
14:55 szabgab s/d//
14:56 LlamaRider " Bug reports about missing and broken
14:56 LlamaRider features are welcomed at href="mailto:rakudobug@perl.org">rakudobug@perl.org. "
14:56 LlamaRider oh the irony
14:57 Liz joined #perl6
14:58 szabgab then I think it never told me it has finished to install ...
14:58 szabgab and it has not changed my PATH to include c:\rakudo\bin
14:59 nwc10 3 spectest fails from nom: http://pasta.test-smoke.org/461
15:02 FROGGS question to all: If I'd run a perl 5 service, how hard would it be to do same NativeCally-stuff in rakudo to call into that perl 5 service?
15:02 FROGGS shouldn't take longer than a weekend, right?
15:03 lizmat FROGGS: isn't that what blitzkost is / was?
15:04 moritz it didn't go through NCI
15:04 szabgab who usually builds Rakudo * for Windows?
15:05 FROGGS lizmat: I must admin, I dont know
15:05 FROGGS *admit
15:05 Heather I plan do it in future
15:06 FROGGS moritz: I dont really care if it is NCI or TCP or something else in the background
15:06 moritz szabgab: pmichaud_
15:07 Heather I think I already found some defect with rakudo on windows but I will try to explore it myself
15:07 szabgab ok, so wait till pmichaud_ comes by with my complaints, right?
15:07 FROGGS Heather: might be still nice to report it, even if you want to fix it yourself
15:08 moritz szabgab: or you could build it yourself
15:08 szabgab I couldn't
15:08 szabgab the compilation failed for me
15:08 Heather FROGGS first I want to be sure if that's a bug
15:08 szabgab but it is ok for me
15:08 szabgab I just want to complain :)
15:09 FROGGS Heather: sure
15:12 szabgab Heather: do you have Rakudo * on Windows?
15:12 szabgab Heather: have you installed the msi?
15:13 Heather yes
15:13 lizmat left #perl6
15:13 Heather yes
15:13 szabgab has it configured the PATH for you?
15:13 Heather yes
15:13 Heather C:\Rakudo )
15:13 szabgab it installed in c:\rakudo
15:13 Heather but doesn't add to ENV
15:13 szabgab but it has not changed PATH
15:13 szabgab right
15:13 Heather yes )
15:14 szabgab and have you managed to use p6doc?
15:14 Heather didn't tryed this at all.
15:14 Heather yet.
15:14 szabgab ok, and have you tried any modules that come with Rakudo * ?
15:14 Heather just tested my script and found strange reaction
15:15 szabgab ok, as I dpm
15:15 Heather so i tested tadzik's perl6-File-Tools
15:15 szabgab as I don't see any modules
15:15 szabgab how?
15:15 Heather szbalint_ cloned my script which is using it :)
15:16 Heather szabgab https://github.com/Cynede/ignore
15:16 szabgab heh szbalint_ will be happy I am back on the channel :)
15:16 Heather -_-'
15:17 Heather szabgab btw I wonder about magical way it find libs on windows
15:17 szabgab ok, I wrote a little .bat file so I can use p6doc from the command line
15:17 szabgab do you mean the parrot libs or perl6 modules?
15:18 Heather perl6 modules
15:18 szabgab are there any perl6 modules that came with it?
15:18 Heather seems like on windows it goes recursive to all folders from . and adds all the stuff
15:18 szabgab Oh and have you tried panda?
15:19 Heather szabgab not yet but I should because I've made some changes on panda in my fork
15:19 isomorphisms joined #perl6
15:20 Heather szabgab https://github.com/Cynede/panda/commit/2​30c7406fbdb05a213a81a5cb1d3db6eb9cf560b It will be good if someone else will also test it )
15:21 arlinius joined #perl6
15:27 * jnthn back
15:29 FROGGS jnthn: if you have time, I'd like to talk about blitzkost
15:30 jnthn r: $_ = '123'; s/2/x/; .say
15:31 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«1x3␤»
15:31 jnthn r: $_ = '123'; s/2/x/; say $/
15:31 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«「2」␤␤»
15:31 jnthn r: $_ = 123; s/2/x/; say $/
15:31 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
15:31 jnthn hah!
15:31 jnthn BUSTED
15:31 FROGGS uhh
15:32 jnthn I'll fix it
15:32 jnthn I discovered it while hunting why my multi changes had broken loads of tests.
15:32 FROGGS these things make me feel like we just have 10 tests in roast
15:33 jnthn r: sub foo() { $/ := 42 }; foo()
15:33 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side�at /tmp/Ddm0ufiHc8:1�------> [32msub foo() { $/ := 42 [33m�[31m}; foo()[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�»
15:34 jnthn That wants a fix also....
15:34 FROGGS n: sub foo() { $/ := 42 }; foo()
15:34 jnthn Though that one is RT'd
15:34 p6eval niecza v24-33-gfc6d5fd:  ( no output )
15:34 FROGGS hmmm, weird, I though niecza didnt get that right
15:40 LlamaRider So is bitwise or ~| or +| in P6? And is bitwise negation still ~ ?
15:41 LlamaRider I should get myself a "Learning Perl6" book
15:43 moritz ~| is stringy bitwise OR
15:43 moritz +| is integer bitwise OR
15:43 moritz and iirc negation is ~^ abd +^
15:45 FROGGS say 2 +| 1
15:45 FROGGS r: say 2 +| 1
15:45 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«3␤»
15:48 gdey joined #perl6
15:55 LlamaRider rn: say (+^0b10).base(2);
15:55 p6eval rakudo cee2f9, niecza v24-33-gfc6d5fd: OUTPUT«-11␤»
15:57 hoelzro so alester showing up last night got me to thinking about roadblocks that Perl 6 has
15:57 hoelzro and I think one of the biggest ones is that there's a lot of tribal knowledge
15:58 moritz or phrased differently, lack of documentation
15:58 hoelzro I often have questions that are difficult/impossible to answer by searching the specs (either because of organization or specificity to a given implementation)
15:58 hoelzro moritz: yes =)
15:58 hoelzro so I ask here, and I get a glowing answer from one of th devs right away
15:58 hoelzro so I think if a post appears that highlights where Perl 6 needs help, that would be a good thing to point out
15:59 hoelzro </2c>
16:03 SunilJoshi joined #perl6
16:04 pmurias joined #perl6
16:04 pmurias is there a plugin to Plack/Catalyst to ban based on IP (preferably a ready made solution like CatalystX::AutoCRUD)?
16:06 jnthn FROGGS: On Blizkost, what were you wanting to know?
16:06 jnthn pmurias: This channel may not offer the highest chance of getting an answer to that... :)
16:08 Ulti http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/c​ontent/paperinfo/tpci/index.html  ruby overtakes perl :'(
16:11 hoelzro huh; it's not creating objects that's slow
16:11 hoelzro it's creating hashes
16:15 lichtkind joined #perl6
16:15 Ulti I dont think its a lack of documentation but documentation in different places in different formats aimed at different audiences
16:16 Ulti a language spec isn't somewhere your average application developer goes to get some help
16:16 hoelzro true
16:16 hoelzro the example I was thinking of was "how do I profile a Perl 6 script"?
16:16 Ulti a FAQ based on the IRC logs might be a plan
16:17 hoelzro hmm
16:17 hoelzro well, I have a project idea
16:17 hoelzro called "Ask Camelia"
16:17 Ulti like pick out every question, so IRC lines ending in ? then do TF-IDF or something to build some topics
16:17 hoelzro it's just a simple text form, where you type "p5: $0" or "traits" or something
16:17 szabgab does rakudo * come with its own "prove" ?
16:17 hoelzro and it presents you with an example and a link to the spec
16:18 hoelzro and links to other relevant documentation
16:18 hoelzro I was thinking of initializing it with Q/A from IRC
16:18 Ulti also what would be quite epic is if getting a compiler error you got asked if you wanted to jump on channel for some help with the error and source file uploaded as a gist
16:18 Ulti we have a perl6 IRC interface after all
16:19 Ulti maybe have some kind of hoop to jump through to prevent spam
16:19 hoelzro hmm
16:19 szabgab tadzik: the panda that comes with rakudo tells me first I need to give the options --notests and only at the end the command 'install'  that's quite confusing
16:19 hoelzro well, that's another thing I wanted to add to AC
16:19 hoelzro if the question doesn't have any answers yet, the web application could forward it here
16:19 Ulti sounds good hoelzro
16:20 hoelzro now, I just need the time )
16:20 hoelzro =)
16:20 Ulti also keeping an index of compiler problems to solutions would be neat, so chatting from the compiler prompt everything said is logged with the gist and you get a list of previous problems that look similar
16:20 lichtkind joined #perl6
16:21 Ulti doesn't have to be in the compiler, just some friendly wrapper
16:21 hoelzro hmm, that's interesting
16:21 Ulti kidgloves perl6 program.p6
16:21 Ulti could make it quite a general application
16:22 Ulti where it just looks up what channel to use for the program
16:22 Ulti #perl6-kidgloves for example
16:24 Ulti basically what everyone does with google and stack overflow anyway but automated
16:25 Ulti also everything else under the sun has "gone social" why not compilers :)
16:25 Ulti "10 of your friends are using perl6, would you like to message them?"
16:26 hoelzro heh
16:26 Ulti seriously though, why dont compilers do that... its the first thing everyone does when they give up fixing it themselves
16:27 Ulti perhaps show someone this stuff after they get the exact same error after several consecutive compiles
16:27 Ulti so its obvious they are failing
16:29 not_gerd joined #perl6
16:30 not_gerd o/
16:31 not_gerd szabgab: what's your windows build environment and how does it fail?
16:32 pmurias jnthn: sorry thought it was #perl ;)
16:32 pmichaud_ szabgab: pong
16:33 szabgab not_gerd: do you mean how rakudo fails to build, sorry I am over that, I am a happy (sort of) Rakudo  * user :)
16:33 szabgab pmichaud: repong
16:34 szabgab pmichaud: I sent a mail and a bug report with the issues I found so far - issues with  Rakudo * msi
16:34 snuffles joined #perl6
16:34 pmichaud szabgab: I saw the mail to the p6c list
16:34 pmichaud bug report?
16:35 szabgab [perl #117151]
16:35 szabgab the lack of  "prove" and that panda blows up
16:35 pmichaud szabgab: this is from the .msi ... ?
16:35 szabgab yes
16:36 pmichaud there is no 2013.02 msi yet, though.
16:36 pmichaud at least, I didn't make one.
16:36 szabgab hmm
16:36 szabgab let me check then :)
16:36 jnthn o/ pmichaud
16:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: e5208af | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
16:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Switch most dispatches to NQP-based dispatcher.
16:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp:
16:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Next up will be hunting/fixing regressions.
16:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e5208af98d
16:36 pmichaud o/ jnthn
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 23f38ed | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Allow binding to $/.
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp:
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Because we need it now to fix other things, but also because it will
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: fix an RT once this branch is merged.
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/23f38ed658
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: f81a127 | jnthn++ | src/core/ (2 files):
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fix $/ setting and $_ lookup a bit.
16:37 dalek rakudo/md-nqp:
16:37 szabgab 2013.01.msi
16:37 szabgab pmichaud:  2013.01.msi  sorry for the confusion
16:37 pmichaud not sure what to do about 'prove'
16:38 szabgab If there is no perl6 based prove, and there is no perl 5 based prove installed then I think panda should fail (in a nice way)
16:38 pmichaud seems like panda shouldn't use 'prove', unless we're going to make p5 a runtime requirement for p6
16:38 szabgab and tell the user to run with --noinstall
16:38 FROGGS sooooo, workshop break before lunsch
16:38 FROGGS *lunch
16:39 szabgab but yes, panda should not rely on any perl5 thing
16:39 FROGGS jnthn: well, I'm at a workshop right now so my motivation is like 450%
16:39 pmichaud I'll file a bug report for panda
16:40 FROGGS jnthn: I'd like to know how the state is, and what I can do (I have some (or some more) Perl 5 knowledge)
16:40 FROGGS jnthn: so I want to let you know that I wanna hook in, so we're able to use (simple) Perl 5 modules from within rakudo
16:41 szabgab when do you expect to have 2013.02.msi ?   and will you include at least those batch files?
16:41 kresike bye folks
16:45 pmichaud which batch files?
16:45 pmichaud p6doc and panda?
16:46 pmichaud I suspect they might be long in the star repo.
16:46 pmichaud I suppose it could be part of the .msi only, though.
16:46 * not_gerd wonders if parrot-prove would work
16:47 jnthn I think putting them in the Star repo and including them with Windows installs in general is good
16:48 pmurias jnthn: we need a working use :from<perl5> so that perl5 questions are on topic here ;)
16:48 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
16:48 jnthn ;)
16:48 jnthn Blizkost was built before any of the 6model stuff happened.
16:49 pmichaud https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/38
16:51 pmichaud szabgab: if you can provide the .bat scripts and other items as issue reports for star, they could likely make it into the 2013.03 release.
16:51 szabgab pmichaud: thanks
16:51 szabgab pmichaud:  the bat files are those one-liners I included in the email
16:51 FROGGS jnthn: so we first need to get it working agein?
16:51 FROGGS *again
16:51 pmichaud https://github.com/rakudo/star/issues
16:51 FROGGS jnthn: can you add a roadmap for me?
16:51 szabgab I can commit them somewhere if you let me know the repo
16:52 pmichaud https://github.com/rakudo/star
16:52 szabgab ok, I'll open the issues there or send a pull :)
16:52 pmichaud excellent, thanks
16:53 szabgab should I create a directory called win32/bin  and put them there?
16:53 pmichaud szabgab: looking
16:54 szabgab maybe under ports ?
16:54 pmichaud ports/ is good enough for now
16:54 pmichaud we'll want to update the install script, undoubtedly
16:55 szabgab which is where?
16:55 pmichaud https://github.com/rakudo/star/bl​ob/master/tools/build/Makefile.in
16:55 szabgab oh I see I have commit bit to this repo
16:56 szabgab so I can just add the bat files
16:56 szabgab I feel empowered
16:57 pmichaud I'll upload my "how to build star on windows" instructions tomorrow, too
16:58 szabgab That's good but I am just a user here !
17:00 bowtie joined #perl6
17:00 dalek star: d0e0a2e | (Gabor Szabo)++ | ports/win32/p (2 files):
17:00 dalek star: Adding bat files for MS Windows installation. To be placed in the bin directory of Rakudo
17:00 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/d0e0a2e31b
17:01 szabgab ok, that's enough harm done for today
17:02 lichtkind joined #perl6
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17:10 mehwork are there any good perl podcasts?
17:12 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
17:12 grondilu joined #perl6
17:13 masak szabgab++ made some Perl 6 videos, I recall.
17:14 masak screencasts.
17:14 masak here's one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqxI7L5FQ4w
17:15 mehwork i mean audio ones i can listen to on ipod
17:15 mehwork i found one 'perlcasts' on itunes
17:15 masak ok, sweet.
17:15 mehwork thanks, i'll check those out too
17:16 crab2313 joined #perl6
17:16 masak make sure you check out FLOSS weekly #140: http://twit.tv/floss140
17:16 masak with a very nice interview with our own pmichaud++
17:17 mehwork cool
17:24 Liz joined #perl6
17:29 moritz that's from 2010, right?
17:30 isomorphisms joined #perl6
17:30 masak something like that. but I bet it's still interesting.
17:30 timotimo_ October 29 2010, so very late 2010
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17:53 masak people, some time in the coming weeks I may hold a half-day Perl 6 course on IRC. (timed so that both US and Europe are awake during it.) I already have some people showing interest in such a course.
17:53 masak anyone else who is/might be interested?
17:56 * moritz might be
17:56 moritz oh, and I'll provide logging if you want to do it another channel
18:00 moritz *in another channel
18:03 yoleaux joined #perl6
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18:12 timotimo_ i wonder if careful parallelisation of parsing the grammar and calling the action methods would give any performance benefit rather than just a huge headache.
18:12 timotimo_ maybe an STM approach would be feasible some day
18:13 davidagain joined #perl6
18:13 timotimo_ as in start the parsing of the next construct and if it accessed a piece of data that was just being created by an earlier action method (say, a lexical or world value or something), then abort the earlier parse and try again later
18:14 moritz sounds scary
18:15 TimToady trouble is you can't know whether there's a dependency, if the previous construct changed the language
18:15 TimToady not until the lexer is recalculated
18:15 TimToady *lexers are
18:15 timotimo_ so making the abort happen isn't going to be reliable?
18:15 TimToady so I think the biggest win will be caching lexers from run to run
18:16 TimToady the identity of the current language is the most important thing, and Perl 6 really, really hates to parse without knowing the current language
18:18 TimToady if you can minimimize the lexer recalculation with a cache, then whenever you get a cache hit, you don't have to spend time recalculating the lexers, and then maybe you can think about parallelizing the actions
18:19 TimToady of course, by the time you've cached all the langauges, it's a small step to remember the exact text of the next function, and if it matches, just use a cached parse of it
18:19 TimToady and then you have an incremental compiler
18:19 moritz sounds also scary :-)
18:22 TimToady it's only scary if you lose track of the identities and start guessing
18:23 masak moritz: thanks. I will most likely take you up on that offer.
18:23 masak I want to do it in another channel, because I don't want to expose everyone here to a Perl 6 course ;)
18:24 snuffles joined #perl6
18:25 alester masak: I think a Perl 6 course isn't bad in channel.
18:26 alester We don't want #perl6 to only be devs,right?
18:26 alester heck, *i* could use a Perl 6 course.
18:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1caa659 | coke++ | / (4 files):
18:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/1caa659ccf
18:27 arnsholt alester: I think someone in #parrot said you might know about reasons for the choices of compiler warnings in Parrot. Am I remembering correctly?
18:31 [Coke] nwc10: are your failures listed here: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-dat​a/blob/master/rakudo_summary.out#L2419
18:31 [Coke] Aoogh. rakudo has failed spectests six days in a row.
18:32 [Coke] er, *AOOOGAH*
18:32 moritz [Coke]: I'm doing a spectest run and see if anything fails for me too
18:32 snuffles joined #perl6
18:32 moritz and if yes, try to fix it
18:34 [Coke] moritz++
18:34 jnthn I'm getting some segfaults on some of the regex tests.
18:35 jnthn I thought it was in my branch only, then couldn't track them to anything in it, and found they're in nom too...
18:35 [Coke] jnthn: which tests?
18:35 jnthn regex-in-variable.t, litvar.t are two of them
18:36 [Coke] (I'm not seeing those. failures I'm seeing are in S26-documentation/09-configuration.t and S32-num/stringify.t
18:36 snuffles joined #perl6
18:38 masak alester: in channel I would feel like I was drowning out ordinary development work, or newbie questions, or other discussion.
18:39 masak alester: I've previously held a very pleasant 3-hour walkthrough of CQRS on a separate channel. wouldn't mind having a similar format for this course.
18:43 fhelmberger joined #perl6
18:45 moritz [Coke]: I observe two test failures here, t/spec/S26-documentation/09-configuration.t and t/spec/S32-num/stringify.rakudo
18:46 moritz plus some passing TODOs
18:52 dalek roast: fdb4719 | moritz++ | S (3 files):
18:52 dalek roast: fudge and unfudge tests for rakudo
18:52 dalek roast:
18:52 dalek roast: also switches to planless testing in S32-num/stringify.t, because
18:52 dalek roast: functions that run several tests are hard to fudge.
18:52 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fdb47197c0
18:52 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
18:53 jnthn I thnk the 09- one may be my fault
18:53 jnthn Will look more in a bit
18:53 moritz iirc tadzik said something along these lines
18:57 davidagain r: say 'r: say "r"'
18:57 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«r: say "r"␤»
18:57 davidagain aww, that would have been fun
18:59 moritz davidagain: I was very careful to avoid bot cycles when writing p6eval :-)
18:59 moritz davidagain: p6eval sending messages via phenny (or lambdabot, back in the days) etc.
19:00 timotimo_ that interview was nice and interesting
19:01 timotimo_ davidagain: sadly, that would only have caused one back and forth, not a cycle
19:01 timotimo_ so, try again? :)
19:01 davidagain hmm
19:02 davidagain quine the dilemma
19:02 timotimo_ r: my $str = "r: say $str"; say "r: say $str"; # this doesn't help either, no?
19:02 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/CrxmnZwTT2:1␤␤r: say r: say ␤»
19:02 davidagain let me think
19:02 timotimo_ r: my $str = 'r: say $str'; say "r: say $str"; # this doesn't help either, no?
19:02 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«r: say r: say $str␤»
19:02 davidagain r: say r: say $str
19:02 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Two terms in a row�at /tmp/ijF1NeicGd:1�------> [32msay r[33m�[31m: say $str[0m�    expecting any of:�        argument list�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix or meta-infix�        statement end�        statement …
19:02 davidagain nope
19:02 timotimo_ a y combinator perhaps?
19:03 davidagain I think a simple contatenative quine should work
19:03 moritz davidagain: the OUTPUT« prefix prevents it from ever taking input from itself
19:03 davidagain yeah, I know
19:03 davidagain (now)
19:03 davidagain any other bots in here I can recruit to my cause?
19:03 timotimo_ yeah, this is a theoretical exercise only
19:03 moritz .oO( you can quine any time you like, but you can never loop )
19:04 fgomez joined #perl6
19:04 davidagain what we need is a way to get p6 to ignore r: as a bareword
19:05 davidagain ignore my bareness, p6.  don't be a perv.
19:05 moritz davidagain: niecza already does it
19:05 moritz (it's a label)
19:05 moritz but only at statement begin
19:05 davidagain r: goto r
19:05 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared routines:�    goto used at line 1�    r used at line 1��»
19:05 moritz n: goto n
19:05 p6eval niecza v24-33-gfc6d5fd: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m​===[0m��Undeclared routine:�     'n' used at line 1��Unhandled exception: Check failed��  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) �  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) �  at /home/p…
19:06 moritz n: n: goto n
19:06 alester arnsholt: Yes, I know all about the GCC warnings that Parrot uses.
19:06 p6eval niecza v24-33-gfc6d5fd: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:06 davidagain r: r: goto r
19:06 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Two terms in a row�at /tmp/mrk4E5Ba9r:1�------> [32mr[33m�[31m: goto r[0m�    expecting any of:�        argument list�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix or meta-infix�        statement end�        statement modifi…
19:06 davidagain r: goto hell
19:06 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared routines:�    goto used at line 1�    hell used at line 1. Did you mean '&shell'?��»
19:06 moritz rakudo doesn't parse labels yet, and doesn't do goto either
19:06 alester arnsholt: is this more appropriate here or in #parrot?
19:06 davidagain n: say 'r: man up!'
19:06 arnsholt alester: Excellent! The one I'm curious about is -Waggregate-return
19:06 p6eval niecza v24-33-gfc6d5fd: OUTPUT«r: man up!␤»
19:07 alester What about it?
19:07 arnsholt Either, really. It's about Parrot, but because of Perl 6
19:07 arnsholt Part of the C 6model API is a function that returns a struct
19:07 davidagain I haven't played with Perl6 for a while.  Does either rakudo or niecza have a GUI frontend for the REPL?
19:07 arnsholt Not a pointer to a struct, but the whole thing is returned. Which means that we get mandatory compiler warnings when compiling NQP and Rakudo
19:07 davidagain (on Windows)
19:07 moritz no
19:08 arnsholt It's not a big deal, but it'd be nice to not have those warnings
19:08 autumn joined #perl6
19:08 davidagain p6
19:08 davidagain maybe I can get the J REPL to talk 06
19:08 davidagain the CLI is not fun here in Windowsland
19:08 davidagain and I'm not keen on building for cygwin
19:09 alester arnsholt: The reason I put -Waggregate-return in there is because A) the warning exists, and B) nothing complained.  My approach to setting up warnings was "turn everything on that we possibly can unless there is a reason not to have it on."
19:10 sivoais joined #perl6
19:10 alester If we now have stuff returning structs and the compiler warning doesn't make sense, then it may be time to get rid of the warning.
19:10 alester Alternately, you could add -Wno-aggregate-struct to the Perl 6 options.
19:10 alester (I think that's how GCC does negation)
19:11 alester I mean -Wno-aggregate-return
19:13 TimToady Pope Francis!
19:14 moritz habemum francis!
19:14 alester TimToady beats CNN.com
19:19 sivoais joined #perl6
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19:45 arnsholt alester: Thanks! I'll keep it in mind when I return to my warning-squashing quest =)
19:51 * masak .oO( clearly, 'francis' is some kind of genitive, and it should be 'hamemum Franceum' ) :P
19:51 arnsholt =p
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20:01 dalek nqp: 6c4dc29 | jnthn++ | src/guts/multi_dispatch.c:
20:01 dalek nqp: Multi-cache should decontainerize.
20:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6c4dc29615
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 383409d | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fix $/ lookup more properly.
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/383409d064
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: ad805ff | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: A couple of performance tweaks.
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ad805ffc8f
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 3199f01 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Add back caching of dispatches.
20:02 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3199f01bc1
20:04 fglock joined #perl6
20:07 fgomez joined #perl6
20:09 fglock I'm working on a module to generate code for a perlito5/perlito6 "jit" backend,
20:09 fglock I wonder if somebody documented which subset of perl6/perl5 intersects
20:09 fglock so I can write a module that works on both
20:10 fglock I could also just try out and see what works
20:17 dalek nqp: 6bd6a25 | jnthn++ | src/guts/multi_dispatch.c:
20:17 dalek nqp: Fix buffer overrun.
20:17 dalek nqp:
20:17 dalek nqp: The code relied on the check being done higher up, which it isn't any
20:17 dalek nqp: more.
20:17 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6bd6a25aa0
20:46 alester arnsholt++ Yay for warning squashing.
20:47 alester That's why they're there.
20:49 arnsholt Yeah. They've caught some things for me before, so I'd be very happy if I could kill all the warnings in NQP
20:59 tadzik hello #perl6
20:59 tadzik so many messages
21:00 arnsholt Hmm. Maybe I should read some docs about QAST rather than semi-randomly cargo-culting stuff and seeing what happens
21:05 arnsholt It's alive!
21:05 arnsholt *ahem*
21:08 arnsholt jnthn: Am I right in thinking that I'll have to add a repr_push op to nqp.ops and a pirop mapping for that to use REPROps_Positional->push_boxed?
21:08 yoleaux joined #perl6
21:09 yoleaux joined #perl6
21:09 jnthn arnsholt: The vtable method in SixModelObject is already set up to do the appropriate forwarding.
21:09 jnthn For push at least
21:09 jnthn May need some more filling out.
21:09 jnthn So nqp::push should do it
21:09 diakopter phenny: tell tadzik you've got mail
21:09 tadzik diakopter: thanks, reading ;)
21:10 tadzik I just got back home after the entire day, and it seems like the entire internet was looking for me :P
21:10 * tadzik has seen RMS live today
21:11 arnsholt jnthn: Right. Then it's probably something else (like a bug in VMArray =)
21:13 arnsholt It's complaining about a zero-byte allocation somewhere
21:16 tadzik diakopter: did I get something from yuo?
21:16 arnsholt There we go. Braino number one in VMArray.c
21:18 tadzik no phenny, no aloha. What do :(
21:20 arnsholt Braino number two!
21:22 cognominal joined #perl6
21:27 zacts joined #perl6
21:28 diakopter tadzik: nope; just teasing the lack of phenny
21:29 felher phenny: tell phenny: we missed you. Welcome back.
21:29 felher The bot will never read it. How sad.
21:31 cognominal joined #perl6
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 117931a | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | / (2 files):
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Add NQPArray type.
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/117931a894
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 9e4e480 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Add nqp::hlllist op.
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9e4e480bd9
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 91b03ba | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/VMArray.c:
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Fix a couple of brainos in VMArray.c.
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list:
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: There's still something broken in VMArray, but at least some of it seems to be
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: working.
21:35 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/91b03baa32
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 809cf09 | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Need to auto-thread shouldn't count as failure.
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp:
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fixes auto-threading regression with NQP-based multi-dispatch.
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/809cf09c88
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: c63943e | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Ops.pm:
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Remove now-unused mappings.
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c63943ecea
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: baf8b44 | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Don't build error strings just to discard them.
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/baf8b44a51
21:39 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 3590914 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
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21:52 timotimo_ ooooh this is amazing :D
21:53 timotimo_ i'm trying to make a non-lta error message for when you have this:
21:53 timotimo_ r: 1/2.''()
21:53 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«Method '' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/kQspxZlBkL:1␤␤»
21:53 timotimo_ and i was wondering why it wouldn't turn it into a proper error:
21:53 timotimo_ r: try eval q{1/2.''()}; say $!.WHAT;
21:53 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤»
21:53 timotimo_ r: try eval q{1/2.'foobar'()}; say $!.WHAT;
21:53 p6eval rakudo cee2f9: OUTPUT«(X::Method::NotFound)␤»
21:54 timotimo_ turns out, this error comes from parrot or something and there's this regex match going on: nqp::p6box_s(nqp::atkey_s($parrot_ex, 'message')) ~~ /"Method '" (.+?) "' not found for invocant of class '" (.+)\'$/
21:54 timotimo_ :D
21:54 jnthn haha!
21:54 jnthn Well, it's close ;)
21:54 jnthn We'll get typed exceptions for multi-dispatch failures soon, I expect
21:54 timotimo_ cool :)
21:55 timotimo_ in the mean time, i'll fix this regex to change + into * and make a test for that for roast
22:01 not_gerd joined #perl6
22:01 masak timotimo_++
22:01 not_gerd o/
22:01 not_gerd is there any reason why https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/110 shouldn't go in?
22:02 not_gerd it saves a WHOLE CHARACTER when forcing exact signature matches ;)
22:02 not_gerd | where !* -vs- *% where !*
22:04 cognominal joined #perl6
22:04 jnthn Hm. I guess it makes Capture more consistent with Array and Hash...
22:04 not_gerd my reasoning is that it's just another container
22:05 not_gerd so false if undefined or empty, true otherwise
22:06 timotimo_ hm, were there failures in S32-exceptions/misc.t? i may have broken something.
22:07 timotimo_ ok 23 - '$&' died  /  not ok 24 - right exception type (X::Obsolete)  /  # Got:      (X::Syntax::SigilWithoutName)  /  # Expected: (X::Obsolete)
22:07 timotimo_ huh?
22:10 timotimo_ ah, the latest roast-data commit isn't helpful, because it trips over the nonexisting Elsif exception :(
22:14 timotimo_ seems like my commits didn't break those. maybe i can find out where those failures come from, though
22:14 timotimo_ that could be nice
22:14 timotimo_ oh, perhaps they come from a too old version of nqp? i should build a master nqp i suppose
22:15 timotimo_ oh, i forgot to fudge
22:15 timotimo_ that was kind of silly
22:21 Ayiko hi #perl6
22:21 Ayiko grondilu: I start my scripts with :::perl
22:23 dalek roast: cb80e7a | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
22:23 dalek roast: add a test for '' methods not found.
22:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cb80e7a813
22:26 timotimo_ pull request'd
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 103481f | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: raise X::Method::NotFound even for '' methods.
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/103481fff6
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 1c99395 | jonathan++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #117 from timo/typed_exc_empty_method
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: raise X::Method::NotFound even for '' methods.
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c993950b9
22:29 timotimo_ oh, i made the whitespace uglier by accident
22:29 timotimo_ oh well.
22:32 zacts joined #perl6
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 56f7059 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Optimizer updates for NQP-based dispatcher.
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp:
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Will allow elimination of the MD thunk hack.
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/56f70594fa
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 73880dd | jnthn++ | / (7 files):
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fully kill off MD thunks.
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp:
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Gets rid of 2 PMCs, 2 ops and an attribute in Routine.
22:36 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/73880dd2f8
22:43 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 3309f5f | jnthn++ | src/core/Stringy.pm:
22:43 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fix a proto.
22:43 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3309f5f727
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23:01 masak 'night, #perl6
23:13 cognominal__ joined #perl6
23:18 grondilu Perl6 changes for 2013W10 mentions:  "Added colorcircumfixes."   What the hell is this?
23:18 gdey joined #perl6
23:18 grondilu I mean, "color"?
23:19 jnthn typo
23:19 jnthn shoulda said colon
23:19 jnthn Also it makes it sound more than it is
23:19 jnthn There's a parse rule in the grammar called coloncircumfix
23:20 jnthn Which was incorporated. But it doesn't add much new, other than better error reporting.
23:20 grondilu it's not supposed to be used by a Perl6 user, is it?
23:20 jnthn For a very specific case.
23:20 jnthn r: :<>
23:20 p6eval rakudo 1c9939: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:�    Pair with <> really means an empty list, not null string; use :('') to represent the null string,�      or :() to represent the empty list more accurately�    at /tmp/oYku0bDXFV:1�    ------> [32m:<>[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�»
23:21 jnthn It's that error that was inaccurate before, I think.
23:21 grondilu ok
23:21 sorear jnthn: huh?  I thought rakudo could parse sub infix:<+>($a,$b) { ... } since forever
23:22 jnthn sorear: It could
23:23 jnthn sorear: At some point, rather than colonpair calling circumfix directly, STD got a refactor so that it called coloncircumfix and that called circumfix.
23:23 jnthn sorear: It was, afaict, done to prevent giving a misleading error.
23:23 jnthn sorear: All I did was align Rakudo's grammar with STD so we got the better error message. That was the whole of the change. :)
23:26 grondilu Could I add OpenGL to the most wanted modules list or is it too optimistic?
23:27 tadzik go ahed
23:27 sorear even if it were outright impossible, that wouldn't eliminate the want
23:29 * grondilu just did it
23:30 grondilu One of these days I'd like to learn 3D programming, but I don't feel doing it with a boring programming language.  I'd like to do it in perl6.
23:31 alec__ joined #perl6
23:34 timotimo_ i believe it wouldn't be terrifically hard to implement opengl with zavolaj
23:34 timotimo_ it's a rather simple C API, just a big amount of constants and functions
23:34 timotimo_ a good object-oriented (or at least assisted) binding, however, that could be trickier
23:41 not_gerd joined #perl6
23:41 * not_gerd wonders if grondilu knows that Parrot comes with OpenGL bindings that used to (and possibly still does) work with Rakudo
23:41 not_gerd see eg https://github.com/parrot/parrot/blo​b/master/examples/opengl/triangle.p6
23:42 not_gerd note that I removed these from the sixparrot branch last week
23:47 cognominal__ joined #perl6
23:49 jnthn sleep &
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 62817b8 | jnthn++ | src/binder/multidispatch. (2 files):
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Remove some now-unused code.
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/62817b8279
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 858cbe2 | jnthn++ | src/core/Stash.pm:
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Fix a wrong type constraint.
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/858cbe2c97
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: 6993950 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: Some more small optimizations.
23:49 dalek rakudo/md-nqp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6993950d11
23:50 not_gerd left #perl6
23:56 tadzik jnthn++ # wonderful commit spree
23:56 davidagain joined #perl6
23:57 davidagain quick question: is there a tutorial or writeup on implementing a toy programming language in p6?
23:57 davidagain (not in nqp or anything, but directly on rakudo)
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