Time |
Nick |
Message |
00:06 |
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00:09 |
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00:10 |
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00:13 |
LlamaRider |
nqp: say(x("abc",7)); |
00:13 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &xâ¤current instr.: '' pc 47 ((file unknown):168622262) (/tmp/1FJdsaPZxO:1)â¤Â» |
00:18 |
|
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00:29 |
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00:33 |
diakopter |
nqp: say(nqp::x("abc",7)); |
00:33 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«abcabcabcabcabcabcabcâ¤Â» |
00:33 |
diakopter |
nqp-jvm: say(nqp::x("abc",7)); |
00:33 |
p6eval |
nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«abcabcabcabcabcabcabcâ¤Â» |
00:47 |
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00:48 |
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01:03 |
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01:14 |
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01:29 |
colomon |
rn: say 1701/60 |
01:29 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3, niecza v24-35-g5c06e28: OUTPUT«28.35â¤Â» |
01:29 |
colomon |
so, my current STEP file read has been running for 28.35 hours, and now is taking up 36 gigs of memory. |
01:29 |
colomon |
also, my new linux box is swapping like crazy. |
01:30 |
|
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01:42 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: how do I locate where this happens? https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/5b821ff471cf0bcb049f |
01:42 |
FROGGS |
btw, sleep well #perl6 |
02:14 |
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02:41 |
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02:56 |
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03:03 |
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03:10 |
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03:10 |
diakopter |
colomon: /o\ |
03:10 |
colomon |
\o/ |
03:11 |
diakopter |
it finished? |
03:11 |
colomon |
nah, I'm just in a good mood |
03:11 |
diakopter |
or were you celebrating the fact that it hadn't crashed yet? :) |
03:11 |
colomon |
that too. :) |
03:13 |
sorear |
:D |
03:16 |
* diakopter |
listens as colomon tests his hdd's MTBF |
03:17 |
colomon |
yeah, having stepped back into the office and listened to the hard drive, I'm thinking maybe I should kill the process. |
03:17 |
colomon |
wish I had some idea how close it was to being done... |
03:18 |
diakopter |
computing eventual termination of nondeterministic programs is especially hard.. |
03:19 |
|
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03:19 |
diakopter |
hi toddr_ |
03:20 |
colomon |
killed |
03:20 |
toddr_ |
howdy. Was checking ig the topic has a YAPC talks plug or not. |
03:20 |
diakopter |
..if you can fit it in there.. ;) |
03:21 |
geekosaur |
plenty of room left |
03:22 |
|
Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | YAPC::NA talk submissions due end of Month. Have you submitted your talk? |
03:23 |
toddr_ |
thanks |
03:24 |
diakopter |
actually I think you can /topic here without being op; oh well |
03:25 |
toddr_ |
huh. Freednode confuses me compared to most irc systems. Their privs a definitely weird. |
03:28 |
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03:44 |
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04:00 |
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04:02 |
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04:07 |
japhb |
jnthn, I'm trying to figure out a loop in my DUMP work. In Parcel.pm, I have a multi method DUMP(Parcel:D:) in which I've added debugging output, and confirmed that the next thing to dump recursively (the $!storage) attribute, is an RPA. I then call DUMP($!storage), which calls the sub DUMP(|) in Mu.pm, which starts with my Mu $args := pir::perl6_current_args_rpa__P(); my Mu $topic := nqp::shift($args); If I now pir::typeof__SP($topic), |
04:07 |
japhb |
I now see a Parcel instead of an RPA; since Parcel fails nqp::islist(), I fall through to calling $topic.DUMP(), and loop. Why the change of type, given all the attempts to avoid coercion, and how do I fix this? |
04:07 |
japhb |
* (the $!storage attribute) # Damn parens moved on me |
04:08 |
* japhb |
goes to watch a movie and clear his head |
04:08 |
japhb |
& |
04:13 |
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04:19 |
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04:27 |
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04:43 |
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04:51 |
loops |
howdy, any tips on how to build Rakudo HEAD? Building git download doesn't seem to build latest even when i configure with --gen-parrot=master --gen-nqp=master |
04:56 |
loops |
Am trying to grab fixes announced yesterday here... http://is.gd/AGAFwo |
04:58 |
tadzik |
it should Just Work, if you do have rakudo HEAD cloned |
04:59 |
loops |
tadzik, hmm.. k... --version shows its using older commits from parrot and nqp |
04:59 |
loops |
and testing the examples given on that web page don't work... |
04:59 |
loops |
but i'm probably doing something daft |
04:59 |
|
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05:00 |
tadzik |
loops: ah yes, it will use older Parrot/nqp |
05:00 |
tadzik |
this NQP which is in NQP_REVISION (rakudo repo), and this Parrot which is in PARROT_REVISION (nqp repo) |
05:01 |
tadzik |
anything in particular that doesn't work? |
05:01 |
loops |
my $nonsense = 'asdf'; say "OK" if "ADSF" ~~ m:i/$nonsense/; |
05:01 |
loops |
from that web page link i gave above... from yesterday |
05:02 |
loops |
the case insensitive matching |
05:02 |
tadzik |
r: my $nonsense = 'asdf'; say "OK" if "ADSF" ~~ m:i/$nonsense/ |
05:02 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: ( no output ) |
05:08 |
tadzik |
loops: you can always build nqp separately, and have everything fresh |
05:08 |
loops |
tadzik can i just change NQP_REVISION in rakudo repo? |
05:08 |
tadzik |
not _really_ separately. Now that you've done --gen-nqp, you can just cd nqp && git pull and stuff |
05:09 |
tadzik |
loops: that'd work too |
05:09 |
loops |
oh.. so it'll use master, just list version incorrectly? |
05:09 |
tadzik |
it'll list version alright |
05:09 |
tadzik |
nqp --version will be alright |
05:09 |
loops |
k.. will give it a go and see how it works... but even the local bot didn't get it correct i see |
05:09 |
tadzik |
local bot is correct. It relies on NQP_REVISION |
05:09 |
tadzik |
if it's not bumped then maybe there's a reason |
05:10 |
loops |
well i meant it got the example you pasted wrong... no output instead of OK |
05:15 |
loops |
So maybe that web page i was reading doesn't actually reflect what has been committed to master. Is my first time having a go with perl6 |
05:15 |
loops |
Maybe it's just in glitchmr's repo alone |
05:19 |
tadzik |
I think it's possible that the changes in nqp are there but Rakudo hasn't caught up or so |
05:19 |
loops |
okay.. am giving it a compile now with parrot and nqp head just to see |
05:19 |
tadzik |
oh, better avoid Parrot head |
05:20 |
tadzik |
while using nqp head is safe, there's a reason why we use almost a year-old parrot in PARROT_REVISION |
05:20 |
loops |
yeah? okay.. will kill it and start over if you think that's all i need |
05:20 |
tadzik |
thing may break |
05:20 |
tadzik |
yeah, Parrot doesn't really influence rakudo these days |
05:21 |
tadzik |
r: say "OK" if 'a' ~~ /:i 'A'/; |
05:21 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«OKâ¤Â» |
05:21 |
* tadzik |
commutees |
05:21 |
|
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05:22 |
benabik |
... Parrot 4.11 is a year old? |
05:22 |
loops |
is it possible that web page i was reading just had a typo with the syntax? |
05:23 |
loops |
http://glitchmr.github.com/perl-6-changes-2013W11.html was the actual source of that example |
05:23 |
benabik |
And I hope NQP grabs a more recent version of Parrot soon, with the fixes for read all and the IO buffers. :-/ |
05:29 |
loops |
If my computer wasn't powered by lethargic mice this would be compiled by now |
05:29 |
|
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05:31 |
raiph |
loops: do you know about the evalbots on channel? |
05:31 |
raiph |
r: my $nonsense = 'asdf'; say "OK" if "ASDF" ~~ m:i/$nonsense/; # fixed typo |
05:31 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«OKâ¤Â» |
05:32 |
raiph |
loops: the two strings don't match asdf / ADSF |
05:33 |
loops |
omg lol |
05:33 |
raiph |
;) |
05:33 |
raiph |
GlitchMr++ # for doing the changes report (and -- for the typo :) |
05:34 |
loops |
apparently i have undiagnosed dyslexia |
05:36 |
loops |
thanks raiph... probably saved me some anguish about what i was doing wrong with the compile process |
05:37 |
loops |
thanks to you too tadzik... cheers |
05:38 |
raiph |
yw |
05:38 |
raiph |
are you new to p6? |
05:39 |
|
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05:41 |
loops |
yeah.. first day :o) |
05:41 |
loops |
just giving it a look.. pretty new to perl in general actually.. |
05:54 |
raiph |
loops: what langs are you familiar with? what are you thinking you might do with perl? |
06:01 |
loops |
raiph, Fortran, COBOL, C.. been doing this a lot of years ;o) did a fair bit of sys admin over the years and kinda kick myself for doing so much in shell instead of perl |
06:01 |
loops |
awk and sed.. what a misery |
06:01 |
loops |
Just wrote a web scraper in P5 and it was a revelation... so much handled easily by CPAN |
06:02 |
raiph |
heh. presumably you know perl started as a replacement for sed, awk, and shell |
06:02 |
loops |
Am often doing things where perl would be better than shell, but that's my comfort zone |
06:02 |
loops |
yeah :o) |
06:03 |
loops |
I dunno why i never took the time to dig into it 15 years ago |
06:03 |
|
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06:03 |
sorear |
were you even on unix at the time? |
06:04 |
sorear |
even today, perl 5's support for VMS is ... not great |
06:04 |
loops |
yeah, lots of the time was on Xenix, and other Unix boxes |
06:04 |
loops |
yeah, i started on VMS |
06:05 |
loops |
well actually i started on a Commodore PET 40 character green screen with 32K RAM |
06:05 |
loops |
but that's another story ;o) |
06:06 |
raiph |
heh. sinclair zx80 for me. 1kb. :) |
06:06 |
loops |
doh.. u have me beat ;) |
06:06 |
raiph |
perl5 and perl6 are very, very different animals at the moment |
06:07 |
loops |
yeah.. i found learning about their differences a nice way to learn about P5 as much as anything |
06:07 |
loops |
but the P6 features are really intriguing... |
06:07 |
raiph |
if you assume p6 is 1000x slower, you might be pleasantly surprised |
06:08 |
loops |
Was just reading this is the year of performance for P6, so who knows :o) |
06:08 |
sorear |
it was 1000x slower in mid-2010 |
06:09 |
sorear |
that's how much ng sucked ;) |
06:09 |
loops |
anyway, when you spend 3 hours not noticing ASDF ADSF difference... speed may not be my biggest problem |
06:09 |
raiph |
lol |
06:11 |
raiph |
cpan (p5) has over 100K modules and many are very robust. |
06:11 |
raiph |
p6 has about a hundred small to very small modules in its ecosystem |
06:12 |
loops |
yeah, i read the whole p6 list.. it's a huge difference for sure.. CPAN really rocks. |
06:12 |
loops |
perl seems as mutable as lisp |
06:13 |
loops |
and P6 even more so, which would be really powerful if it can be performant |
06:13 |
bonsaikitten |
well, p6 is still young ... once someone writes the next web 2.0 framework in it it'll take over ;) |
06:13 |
loops |
lol true |
06:14 |
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06:14 |
loops |
Pearls on Perl |
06:15 |
loops |
more dyslexia |
06:22 |
raiph |
because it's not there yet, perl6 in 2013 (and probably 2014 too) is mostly about building a tool for getting stuff done, not for actually getting stuff done. for that latter, think and use perl5 |
06:25 |
raiph |
all imo of course. goodnight #perl6 |
06:28 |
loops |
night raiph |
06:30 |
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06:37 |
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06:45 |
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06:49 |
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06:59 |
tadzik |
benabik: uh, no it's not :) For some reason I thought it's 4.1 |
07:03 |
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07:09 |
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07:09 |
loops |
date |
07:13 |
rindolf |
loops: what about date? |
07:21 |
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07:35 |
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07:47 |
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07:55 |
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07:55 |
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08:00 |
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08:08 |
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08:08 |
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08:09 |
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08:10 |
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08:14 |
masak |
greetings, #perl6 |
08:18 |
moritz |
\o masak |
08:18 |
tadzik |
hey hey masak |
08:18 |
|
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08:19 |
* masak |
is teaching today |
08:19 |
* moritz |
will be teaching git for three hours in the afternoon |
08:21 |
tadzik |
fun stuff |
08:21 |
* tadzik |
hums "Code Monkey" |
08:21 |
hoelzro |
ahoy #perl6 |
08:24 |
masak |
hoelzro! \o/ |
08:25 |
hoelzro |
o/ masak |
08:27 |
FROGGS |
morning |
08:27 |
masak |
FROGGS! \o/ |
08:27 |
FROGGS |
:o) |
08:28 |
sorear |
\o/ |
08:28 |
masak |
sorear! \o/ |
08:29 |
tadzik |
\o/ |
08:29 |
FROGGS |
hehe, what a nice community :o) |
08:30 |
* masak |
starts le teaching |
08:31 |
|
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08:35 |
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08:42 |
hoelzro |
I had a thought on my way to work this morning |
08:43 |
hoelzro |
META.info currently uses an array of strings for dependencies |
08:43 |
hoelzro |
perhaps it could also allow hashes on that array? |
08:44 |
hoelzro |
ex. { "name" : "NativeCall", "version" : "0.1.0", "for" : "Testing Stuff" } |
08:44 |
|
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08:45 |
tadzik |
sure |
08:46 |
|
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08:46 |
tadzik |
it's quite easy to introduce, I'd say |
08:46 |
tadzik |
well, if we plan to ignore the special information at first :) |
08:47 |
tadzik |
we'll need that eventually anyway, I think |
08:58 |
|
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09:05 |
hoelzro |
\o/ |
09:06 |
hoelzro |
also, there was talk of adding POSIX errno values to NQP in addition to nqp_posixerrno |
09:06 |
|
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09:06 |
tadzik |
heh, spectest on TEST_JOBS=6 is pretty awesome |
09:06 |
hoelzro |
what would be the best way to expose that to NQP? nqp_posixerrnovalues -> Hash? |
09:06 |
tadzik |
errno values as in strings descriptions? |
09:07 |
tadzik |
like perror(), sort of? |
09:07 |
|
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09:12 |
hoelzro |
well, it would be something like %errno-values<ENOMEM> -> whatever ENOMEM is on that platform |
09:13 |
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09:16 |
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09:20 |
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09:22 |
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09:22 |
kresike |
hello all you happy and/or unhappy perl6 people |
09:24 |
FROGGS |
hehe |
09:24 |
FROGGS |
helllo kresike |
09:24 |
FROGGS |
-l |
09:26 |
|
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09:27 |
kresike |
FROGGS, o/ |
09:27 |
kresike |
had to make it more generic, people were complaining ☺ |
09:29 |
|
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09:31 |
tadzik |
md-nqp seems not slower than nom here |
09:31 |
tadzik |
on spectest, at least |
09:32 |
tadzik |
(https://gist.github.com/tadzik/5185967) |
09:35 |
jnthn |
japhb: If an RPA is returned by a method, it's automatically marshalled into a Parcel. In general, Rakudo tries fairly hard to not let Parrot types leak into Perl 6 land... |
09:37 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: morning |
09:37 |
FROGGS |
<FROGGS> jnthn: how do I locate where this happens? https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/5b821ff471cf0bcb049f |
09:39 |
tadzik |
FROGGS: try --ll-exception maybe |
09:39 |
|
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09:39 |
tadzik |
or is that it already? :) |
09:40 |
moritz |
that won't help |
09:40 |
|
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09:40 |
moritz |
FROGGS: binary search: comment out large chunks of code, recompile |
09:40 |
jnthn |
I've no idea what NQP code you wrote to get that error... |
09:40 |
FROGGS |
tadzik: make is already the borke |
09:41 |
moritz |
if the error disappears, you know it's in the newly commented-out code |
09:41 |
moritz |
nqp: say() := 42 |
09:41 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op bind: First child of a 'bind' op must be a QAST::Varâ¤current instr.: '' pc 46234 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:16986) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2783)â¤Â» |
09:41 |
jnthn |
And yeah, there's not much better for it than what moritz said, other than when you do find it file a ticket so we can catch the issue at NQP level |
09:41 |
jnthn |
Hm :) |
09:41 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: it is within my added code, I was hoping there is a trick to get the line number |
09:42 |
jnthn |
oh, I guess NQP must not validate the LHS of the bind at all |
09:42 |
moritz |
well, we could also try to track down source location for errors from the QAST compiler |
09:42 |
FROGGS |
+1 |
09:42 |
FROGGS |
moritz: now? :P |
09:42 |
moritz |
FROGGS: maybe you're trying to bind to $.var or so? |
09:42 |
moritz |
FROGGS: I'm at $work now, doing $work things :( |
09:42 |
FROGGS |
moritz: might be the case, let me check |
09:43 |
moritz |
FROGGS: but one thing you can do in QAST::Compiler is simply print out $qast.node.Str when that error is thrown |
09:43 |
moritz |
maybe that makes it easier for you to find the location of the error |
09:52 |
FROGGS |
moritz: thanks! |
10:00 |
|
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10:03 |
moritz |
FROGGS: did it help? |
10:06 |
|
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10:07 |
FROGGS |
moritz: $work got me, I'll get to it in a bit |
10:09 |
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10:22 |
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10:28 |
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10:41 |
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10:55 |
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10:56 |
pmurias |
would cloning rake in Perl6 be a good way to move away from makefiles? |
10:58 |
arnsholt |
Not sure if I'd prefer a dependency on Ruby over make. Are the makefiles a problem? |
10:58 |
tadzik |
do we have a problem with makefiles? |
10:58 |
tadzik |
well, I guess it'll be more of Porting to Perl6 rather than Depending on Ruby |
10:59 |
tadzik |
but I think they're fine. They serve only as a developer tool now, the end-user solutions don't use makefiles anyway |
10:59 |
tadzik |
(at least in the module ecosystem) |
11:01 |
arnsholt |
Oh, right. That kind of clone. I guess it's not a bad idea, although I'll probably stick with make =) |
11:03 |
pmurias |
tadzik: re problem with makefiles, they I really hate them, they are ugly and copy & pasted |
11:05 |
tadzik |
oh well |
11:05 |
tadzik |
I neither write them nor read them, so I don't have a problem with them |
11:05 |
tadzik |
I once reimplemented ufo in Pure Perl 6, it was awful :P |
11:05 |
cognominal |
proposed a pull request for nqp... |
11:06 |
cognominal |
https://github.com/perl6/nqp/pull/84 |
11:07 |
pmurias |
tadzik: does panda handle the precompilation for modules? |
11:07 |
tadzik |
pmurias: yes |
11:08 |
tadzik |
the logic is mostly cargo-culted from ufo |
11:08 |
tadzik |
but it's not using makefils |
11:09 |
cognominal |
ufo-culted, then... |
11:11 |
arnsholt |
cognominal: FWIW, I write lots of makefiles without copy-pasting =) |
11:12 |
pmurias |
arnsholt: that was aimed at me? |
11:13 |
arnsholt |
Oh, indeed it was |
11:15 |
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11:15 |
FROGGS |
moritz: I believe it is something like this: |
11:15 |
FROGGS |
nqp: my $x; my $y; ($x, $y) := (1,1); |
11:15 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op bind: First child of a 'bind' op must be a QAST::Varâ¤current instr.: '' pc 46234 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:16986) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2783)â¤Â» |
11:16 |
jnthn |
That's never going to work in NQP, but we can try and do a better error for it. |
11:18 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: np, I'll just fix my grammar |
11:20 |
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11:22 |
jnthn |
FROGGS: Please file an nqp ticket about getting a better error though... |
11:22 |
jnthn |
I want to improve that. |
11:22 |
jnthn |
NQP may be limited, but it should know its limits :) |
11:22 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: k, will do |
11:31 |
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11:32 |
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11:32 |
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11:39 |
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11:48 |
hoelzro |
Parrot_pmc_new(interp, enum_class_Hash) creates a PMC that I may call Parrot_hash_* functions on, yes? |
11:48 |
FROGGS |
nqp: my $x; my $y; $x := $y := 1; |
11:48 |
p6eval |
nqp: ( no output ) |
11:50 |
FROGGS |
nqp: if my $x := 1 { say("ya"); } |
11:50 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«yaâ¤Â» |
11:52 |
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12:01 |
FROGGS |
moritz: $node.dump seems helpful |
12:06 |
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12:14 |
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12:23 |
FROGGS |
./perl6 -e 'my $a = slurp "src/Perl6/P5Actions.pm"; my %meth = $a.lines.map( { /(method) \s+ (\S+)/ ?? $1 => 1 !! () } ); my $g = slurp "src/Perl6/P5Grammar.pm"; my %decl = $g.lines.map( { /(token|rule) \s+ (\S+)/ && !%meth{$1} ?? $1 => 1 !! () } ); say %decl' |
12:24 |
FROGGS |
haha, I'm using Perl 6 to implement Perl 5 within Perl 6 |
12:28 |
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12:30 |
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12:33 |
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12:40 |
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12:50 |
dalek |
perl6-roast-data: 408e358 | coke++ | / (4 files): |
12:50 |
dalek |
perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit) |
12:50 |
dalek |
perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/408e358b14 |
12:50 |
[Coke] |
rakudo testing clean again. niecza up to 102 failures. |
13:03 |
hoelzro |
you can't use #define's in ops files? =( |
13:04 |
jnthn |
hoelzro: Yes, only up in the prelude |
13:04 |
hoelzro |
oh, I see |
13:04 |
hoelzro |
hmm |
13:04 |
jnthn |
nqp.ops does it |
13:13 |
hoelzro |
ok, that should work |
13:13 |
hoelzro |
so I'm thinking of pushing my pygments lexer upstream soon; one of the problems is "role q { ... }" doesn't parse correctly. Is it special enough of a case to ignore? |
13:14 |
hoelzro |
because I've been thinking, and it would be non-trivial to parse correctly |
13:15 |
tadzik |
literally 'role q { }'? |
13:15 |
hoelzro |
it's in Grammar.pm |
13:15 |
hoelzro |
which one, I cannot recall... |
13:15 |
hoelzro |
it parses it as a string |
13:15 |
PerlJam |
hoelzro: the other quoters too, or just that one? |
13:15 |
hoelzro |
which is incorrect, but it doesn't break the rest of the parse, so I'm inclined to leave it broken |
13:16 |
hoelzro |
PerlJam: probably qq as well |
13:16 |
FROGGS |
hoelzro: leave it broken then |
13:16 |
FROGGS |
there will be always room for improvement :o) |
13:16 |
hoelzro |
yeah, I figure it's probably good enough for upstream |
13:17 |
PerlJam |
hoelzro: seems like you could special-case "role\s+<quoter>" though |
13:17 |
hoelzro |
hmm |
13:17 |
PerlJam |
hoelzro: but if not, I'm with FROGGS; leave it be for now. |
13:17 |
hoelzro |
I'll consider that |
13:17 |
hoelzro |
I was hoping to avoid a special case, but it's not so bad |
13:19 |
lizmat |
PerlJam: shouldn't that be "role<ws><quoter>" |
13:21 |
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13:22 |
PerlJam |
lizmat: sure. I'm still in P5 mode this morning :) |
13:22 |
hoelzro |
well, it *is* using Python regexes =P |
13:23 |
* hoelzro |
thinks it's funny that his largest contribution to Perl 6 so far has been writing Python |
13:26 |
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13:27 |
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13:54 |
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14:08 |
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14:10 |
FROGGS |
Method '!cursor_init' not found for invocant of class 'NQPMu' |
14:10 |
FROGGS |
well, better than nothing :o) |
14:11 |
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14:20 |
dalek |
roast: e08d8f4 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/range-basic.t: |
14:20 |
dalek |
roast: Skip new tests on Niecza. |
14:20 |
dalek |
roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e08d8f482a |
14:21 |
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14:23 |
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14:27 |
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14:28 |
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14:29 |
jdv79 |
is there a way to see the parse tree for a piece of doce or a dump of the reconstituted code? i saw that blurb about a bad parse in the last Perl 6 Changes post and i wanted to see it but couldn't figure it out |
14:29 |
jdv79 |
i thought maybe putting that in a sub and calling .perl on it would do something useful but nope |
14:29 |
jdv79 |
*code |
14:30 |
FROGGS |
jdv79: you can do: ./perl6 --target=ast -e 'say 1' |
14:30 |
FROGGS |
that's not for a piece of code though |
14:32 |
jdv79 |
cool, thanks |
14:46 |
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14:47 |
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14:48 |
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15:06 |
jpnk |
hi. is there a way to access a variable inside a native library? NativeCall seems to focus solely on functions. |
15:06 |
jnthn |
jpnk: Believe there's not a way to do that yet. |
15:07 |
jpnk |
just what i thought:( thanks anyway. |
15:15 |
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15:16 |
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15:34 |
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15:38 |
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15:39 |
LlamaRider |
I've seen the examples of connecting to native subs with NativeCall/zavolaj -- But how do I connect to native variables? |
15:39 |
LlamaRider |
also, o/ #perl6 |
15:41 |
jnthn |
Is this a conspiracy where if enough people ask that question on the same day, it might be implemented? :D |
15:41 |
* LlamaRider |
hasn't read the backlogs yet |
15:42 |
masak |
LlamaRider! \o/ |
15:42 |
jnthn |
LlamaRider: Somebody asked exactly the same about 30 minutes ago. :) |
15:42 |
hoelzro |
and I asked the same on Saturday |
15:42 |
jnthn |
And that. |
15:42 |
jnthn |
OK, I get the hint. :) |
15:42 |
hoelzro |
(to be fair, errno is not a normal variable, and probably wouldn't work) |
15:42 |
masak |
is there a way to connect to native vars with zavolaj? :P |
15:43 |
jnthn |
masak: In step 1, you hassle one of the people who knows about Zavolaj to implement it :P |
15:43 |
jnthn |
I guess we want to be able to set them as well as get them? |
15:43 |
masak |
I'm just cargo-culting the question, but I'm guessing "yes". |
15:44 |
jnthn |
yes, I was asking generally... |
15:44 |
jnthn |
I'm going to be doing a bunch of container stuff refactors soon anyways. The stuff to enable is rw and native types to get along. |
15:44 |
jnthn |
I'll get I can get this to work off the same kind of mechanism. |
15:44 |
jnthn |
*bet |
15:44 |
masak |
++jnthn |
15:45 |
TimToady |
native containers are usually called "pointers" :) |
15:45 |
masak |
whoa. |
15:45 |
jnthn |
TimToady: Yeah, but in the case of lexicals it's a pointer that needs to keep alive the callframe it's pointing into, for example. :) |
15:46 |
TimToady |
the actual container, of course, is the memory cell, but a pointer is necessary to get to the address |
15:46 |
TimToady |
or a register number :) |
15:46 |
* masak |
decommutes |
15:46 |
jnthn |
What I want is to factor it in a way where we take out some kind of managed pointer, but if we inline stuff later it can collapse back down to something cheap. |
15:52 |
jpnk |
anyone knows why panda is taking so long to start when installing from a local directory? anything i can tweak? |
15:54 |
LlamaRider |
jnthn: I see, thanks for looking into adding the feature then :) |
15:58 |
jpnk |
nevermind my question, gotta go:) bye. |
15:59 |
hoelzro |
I hope jpnk comes back |
15:59 |
hoelzro |
we need more curious folk =) |
16:14 |
|
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16:17 |
diakopter |
nqp-jvm: ($_,) := 4 # golfed |
16:17 |
p6eval |
nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«First child of a 'bind' op must be a QAST::Var⤠in <anon>⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_op⤠in as_jast⤠in as_jast⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_all_the_stmts⤠in as_jast⤠in as_jast⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_all_the_stmts⤠in as_jast⤠in as_jast⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_all… |
16:18 |
diakopter |
nqp-jvm: ($_ := 5) := 4 # maybe related |
16:18 |
p6eval |
nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«First child of a 'bind' op must be a QAST::Var⤠in <anon>⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_op⤠in as_jast⤠in as_jast⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_all_the_stmts⤠in as_jast⤠in as_jast⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_all_the_stmts⤠in as_jast⤠in as_jast⤠in <anon>⤠in compile_all… |
16:18 |
diakopter |
oh. |
16:18 |
diakopter |
you're an as_jast |
16:19 |
benabik |
I don't think NQP support binding to parcels. |
16:19 |
jnthn |
Correct. |
16:19 |
jnthn |
But we should really catch it higher level. |
16:19 |
jnthn |
Rather than exploding at code-gen time over badly formed QAST |
16:22 |
japhb |
jnthn, This wasn't a return value getting marshalled; it was an argument to a sub, which I thought had less marshalling magic, when you go through the pir:: raw argument contortions. If that's not the case, is there any way for code in the setting to intentionally not marshal arguments (or return values)? |
16:22 |
jnthn |
japhb: Oh, going through the raw arg thing shoulda prevented it |
16:23 |
japhb |
Yeah, that's why I was confuzzled |
16:23 |
jnthn |
Unless it happened somehow before then. |
16:24 |
japhb |
I'm not sure where it would have been; I check type just before the sub call, and then I check type in the sub right after the raw arg handling, and they're different. |
16:24 |
diakopter |
nqp-jvm: say((my $a := 4) === 6) # jnthn here's one |
16:24 |
p6eval |
nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«Redeclaration of symbol $a at line 2, near ":= 4) === "⤠in panic⤠in variable_declarator⤠in !reduce⤠in !cursor_pass⤠in variable_declarator⤠in declarator⤠in scoped⤠in scope_declarator:sym<my>⤠in !protoregex⤠in scope_declarator⤠in term:sym<scope_declar… |
16:24 |
diakopter |
nqp: say((my $a := 4) === 6) |
16:25 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Redeclaration of symbol $a at line 2, near ":= 4) === "â¤current instr.: 'panic' pc 14698 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:5229) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:278)â¤Â» |
16:25 |
jnthn |
At least it's consistent :) |
16:25 |
diakopter |
=== doesn't exist, right? |
16:25 |
jnthn |
Right |
16:25 |
jnthn |
I thought not, at least |
16:26 |
diakopter |
nqp: say(5 === 5) |
16:26 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say(5 === "â¤current instr.: 'panic' pc 14698 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:5229) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:278)â¤Â» |
16:26 |
jnthn |
japhb: I can take a look at what you wrote and see if I spot anything |
16:27 |
japhb |
OK, give me a sec ... |
16:27 |
diakopter |
nqp: $_ == 5 |
16:27 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_number()â¤current instr.: '' pc 43 ((file unknown):39) (/tmp/8aYQplJAi8:1)â¤Â» |
16:28 |
diakopter |
nqp: $_ |
16:28 |
p6eval |
nqp: ( no output ) |
16:28 |
diakopter |
nqp: say($_) |
16:28 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()â¤current instr.: '' pc 828 (src/stage2/gen/NQPCORE.setting.pir:372) (src/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:649)â¤Â» |
16:28 |
diakopter |
nqp: say($_ := 66) |
16:28 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«Lexical '$_' not foundâ¤current instr.: '' pc 43 ((file unknown):42) (/tmp/ZlSzFbfS4N:1)â¤Â» |
16:28 |
jnthn |
I think $_ only exists in NQP if there's something to bind it. |
16:29 |
diakopter |
nqp: say(my $_ := 66) |
16:29 |
p6eval |
nqp: OUTPUT«66â¤Â» |
16:29 |
diakopter |
okay.. |
16:29 |
jnthn |
Though it should probably be giving an undeclared error. Or just being 6ier. |
16:29 |
diakopter |
your mom is 6ier |
16:29 |
jnthn |
NQP tends to do less magical things, though. |
16:30 |
jnthn |
Heh, that's funnier in Swedish than English :P |
16:30 |
diakopter |
also, your mom does less magical things |
16:30 |
diakopter |
what is it in Swedish |
16:30 |
diakopter |
do I want to know? |
16:31 |
jnthn |
en: six == se: sex :P |
16:32 |
dalek |
rakudo/extend-dump: 6531d86 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/ (5 files): |
16:32 |
dalek |
rakudo/extend-dump: First snapshot of DUMP extension work; lots of debug output trying to track down apparent marshalling issue. |
16:32 |
dalek |
rakudo/extend-dump: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6531d86292 |
16:32 |
* jnthn |
makes a final push on $dayjob stuff before doing dinner and Perl 6 stuffs |
16:33 |
japhb |
jnthn, see above mini-branch |
16:33 |
diakopter |
commode, er I mean commone, er I mean commune, er, I mean commute & |
16:38 |
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16:38 |
japhb_ |
jnthn, I forgot to mention the one-liner I was using to sanity check my work: perl6 -e 'class Foo { has $!bar = "bar"; has $.quux = 1..10; has $!foo = < a b c d >; }; my Foo $foo .= new; say DUMP($foo)' |head -50 |
16:39 |
japhb_ |
That ought to show sane-ish stuff for the first couple attributes, and then go to crazy town on $!foo . |
16:40 |
jnthn |
$attr.get_value(self) |
16:40 |
jnthn |
I wonder if it's that get_value call that does it |
16:41 |
jnthn |
(when you get the Parcel storage) |
16:42 |
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16:43 |
jnthn |
try it as nqp::findmethod($attr, 'get_value')(($attr, self) |
16:45 |
japhb_ |
I'm not sure that's in the line of code that's the problem. See this output: |
16:45 |
japhb_ |
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/2c714262390b18b06b4e |
16:46 |
japhb_ |
Start on line 23, when it starts looking at $!foo |
16:47 |
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16:47 |
japhb_ |
As soon as we hit Parcel.DUMP(), we start looping between Parcel.DUMP and Mu::DUMP; Mu.DUMP is out of the picture at that point. |
16:48 |
jnthn |
oh, it's overridden in Parcel... |
16:48 |
jnthn |
hm |
16:51 |
jnthn |
japhb_: ooh... |
16:51 |
jnthn |
I was wrong about that op |
16:51 |
japhb_ |
oh? |
16:51 |
jnthn |
It does map, it just doesn't panic if it can't. |
16:52 |
jnthn |
oh... |
16:52 |
jnthn |
You can use the capture processing ops I added when porting the multi-dispatcher. |
16:53 |
japhb_ |
Ah, cool. Which ones, and where should I look for example usage? |
16:53 |
jnthn |
nqp::captureposarg(nqp::usecapture(), 0) # for example |
16:53 |
japhb_ |
Oh, nice. |
16:53 |
jnthn |
Well, you can look in the multi-dispatch (in BOOTSTRAP.pm) for examples too :) |
16:53 |
kresike |
bye folks |
16:54 |
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16:54 |
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16:54 |
Harzilein |
hi |
16:55 |
PerlJam |
Harzilein: greetings |
16:55 |
Harzilein |
hmm... should $.something.WHAT work in perlito? is it even valid perl6? |
16:55 |
arnsholt |
o/ |
16:55 |
jnthn |
It's certainly valid Perl 6 |
16:57 |
japhb_ |
jnthn, OK, thank you. Starting a build with the pir:: -> nqp:: change (it will take a while), and I'll let you know if that fixes it. :-) |
16:57 |
* japhb_ |
is also happy that the fix may be "get rid of pir:: in favor of the portable solution" |
16:58 |
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16:59 |
jnthn |
Yes, that pir op in general can go away for this more portable solution. |
16:59 |
jnthn |
It's already supported in JVM land. |
17:04 |
arnsholt |
jnthn: In the head commit at vmarray-list I changed some atpos_s to plain atpos in NQPMu. Should that kind of thing generally be ok? |
17:04 |
|
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17:05 |
jnthn |
arnsholt: Probably; I'd be curious if it looks the same in nqp-jvm's NQPMu |
17:05 |
moritz |
atpos_s? |
17:05 |
moritz |
sounds scary :-) |
17:06 |
Harzilein |
*sigh* |
17:07 |
arnsholt |
jnthn: Looks like they're all plain atpos, so that should be good |
17:07 |
jnthn |
*nod* |
17:09 |
Harzilein |
http://paste.debian.net/242593 :( |
17:10 |
moritz |
maybe $foo.WHAT works in perlito? |
17:11 |
Harzilein |
no, i tried that too |
17:11 |
moritz |
then... tough luck |
17:11 |
Harzilein |
http://paste.debian.net/242594 |
17:13 |
moritz |
then I'd recommend you work with rakudo or niecza instead |
17:14 |
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17:14 |
Harzilein |
moritz: i can't install those on the target system. it's not imperative i can use perl6 but i thought it'd be neat. |
17:22 |
diakopter |
Harzilein: what's the target system? can you install mono? |
17:25 |
japhb_ |
jnthn, success! |
17:25 |
japhb_ |
jnthn++ # Much thanks |
17:27 |
Harzilein |
diakopter: it's a debian-based appliance that says it does not support upgrades. so installing debian packages is a bit like using private apis ;) |
17:27 |
dalek |
rakudo/extend-dump: b69e0c8 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Mu.pm: |
17:27 |
dalek |
rakudo/extend-dump: Replace broken pir::perl6_current_args_rpa__P() call with nqp:: equivalent, stopping RPA -> Parcel looping |
17:27 |
dalek |
rakudo/extend-dump: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b69e0c836c |
17:28 |
Harzilein |
diakopter: well, so is installing perl scripts, but i think they'd need to actively sabotage their appliance for those to break things |
17:29 |
jnthn |
japhb_: yay :) |
17:32 |
Harzilein |
apropos marrokko |
17:32 |
Harzilein |
ewin |
17:32 |
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17:36 |
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17:37 |
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17:39 |
rjbs |
2/lm |
17:40 |
rjbs |
(oops) |
17:42 |
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17:43 |
masak |
===SORRY!=== Undeclared routine: lm used at line 1. Did you mean '&lc'? |
17:51 |
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17:55 |
masak |
today's autopun: "haiku's inventory / must have had seven fingers / on his middle hand" |
17:55 |
masak |
g'ah, inventor* |
17:56 |
jnthn |
hm, somehow that one doesn't feel too autopunny... |
17:57 |
masak |
another one: "why the Japanese / think seventeen syllables / are enough is a" |
17:57 |
masak |
I think that one qualifies more :) |
18:06 |
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18:21 |
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18:36 |
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18:45 |
pmichaud |
good morning, #perl6 |
18:46 |
PerlJam |
good afternoon, pmichaud |
18:50 |
jnthn |
hi, pmichaud |
18:50 |
pmichaud |
oh, I guess it is afternoon. |
18:51 |
pmichaud |
I spent much of the night regretting some things I ate over the weekend. :-/ |
18:51 |
jnthn |
:( |
18:55 |
|
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18:57 |
[Coke] |
:( |
18:58 |
masak |
:( |
19:00 |
FROGGS |
:( |
19:00 |
FROGGS |
what's up? |
19:01 |
* masak |
.oO( weekend's food ) |
19:01 |
|
SmokeMac_ joined #perl6 |
19:02 |
* jnthn |
groans at masak |
19:02 |
* masak |
attempts to blame rindolf |
19:02 |
* skids |
stops looking for ill-looking unicode smileys. |
19:03 |
* masak |
.oO( PILE OF FOOD ) |
19:04 |
pmichaud |
actually, it didn't come up. My system simply has difficulty processing certain foods at times (broccoli in this case) |
19:05 |
|
fgomez joined #perl6 |
19:05 |
huf |
do these times happen to coincide with the time you eat those foods? |
19:05 |
pmichaud |
heh |
19:06 |
|
cognominal joined #perl6 |
19:07 |
masak |
only a programmer would ask that. :P |
19:07 |
huf |
debugging! :) |
19:07 |
FROGGS |
masak: food is up? is that an idiom? |
19:08 |
* PerlJam |
only eats broccoli after it's been preprocessed into the muscle tissue of some animal. |
19:08 |
masak |
FROGGS: no, but it's not so difficult to assign meaning to it. |
19:08 |
PerlJam |
Much safer that way :) |
19:08 |
masak |
PerlJam: you're like the dual of a vegetarian! |
19:08 |
PerlJam |
s/like// |
19:08 |
PerlJam |
:) |
19:09 |
masak |
:) |
19:09 |
pmichaud |
it was often an interesting challenge to find eating places that had PerlJam and vegans in the dining group. :) |
19:09 |
masak |
it's horrible, my very first thought was "let PerlJam eat the vegans". |
19:09 |
masak |
I'll go have my brain checked now. |
19:10 |
PerlJam |
masak: well ... they eats what food eats. ;> |
19:10 |
masak |
exactly. |
19:11 |
* rindolf |
takes the blame for all the world's ailments. |
19:11 |
rindolf |
Blame it all on me. |
19:11 |
rindolf |
All problems go away when you find someone to blame. |
19:11 |
* PerlJam |
blames rindolf |
19:12 |
PerlJam |
nope ... problems are still there. |
19:12 |
* PerlJam |
blames rindolf *harder* |
19:12 |
masak |
empiricism. it works, baby. |
19:12 |
* rindolf |
blames himself the hardest-most-awesomest-greatest-bestest-hippest-something! |
19:12 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: I am the Omega of scapegoats! |
19:13 |
* PerlJam |
wonders if early british misunderstood the meaning of "empiricism" |
19:13 |
rindolf |
LOL. |
19:13 |
rindolf |
I think I'll make a fortune out of this conversation. |
19:14 |
rindolf |
fortune cookie. |
19:14 |
rindolf |
I'm unlikely to sell it on E-bay and get rich. |
19:14 |
* rindolf |
wonders how much he can sell the word «hello» for. |
19:14 |
masak |
PerlJam: "empiricism" seems to etymologize back to Gr "peirân", "to attempt". |
19:15 |
rindolf |
Now on bargain! Only $39.99! Get your own copy of «hello» now. |
19:15 |
rindolf |
masak: Greek? |
19:15 |
rindolf |
masak: ah, sounds logical. |
19:16 |
rindolf |
masak: wasn't ancient Greek very ambiguous? Like Ancient Hebrew? |
19:16 |
|
cognominal joined #perl6 |
19:17 |
masak |
rindolf: not that I know. |
19:17 |
rindolf |
Well, I know Carpe from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem (which is Latin) meant much more than "Seize". |
19:17 |
rindolf |
masak: ah. |
19:17 |
masak |
well, it's common for verbs to have many meanings :) not just in Latin. |
19:17 |
rindolf |
masak: did you read Aesop, Plato, Aristotle, etc. in the original Greek? |
19:17 |
rindolf |
masak: ah. |
19:17 |
rindolf |
masak: yeah, maybe. |
19:18 |
masak |
rindolf: no, I didn't. but that sounds kinda wonderful. |
19:18 |
jnthn |
.oO( Do fishermen say "carp diem"? ) |
19:18 |
rindolf |
masak: I only read translations and adaptations. |
19:19 |
rindolf |
masak: there's http://classics.mit.edu/ which contains translations of Greek and Latin stuff to English. Somewhat archaic ones though. |
19:19 |
masak |
rindolf: case in point: "take" on dictionary.com seems to have 126 definitions. |
19:19 |
rindolf |
masak: I gave up on Aristotle's Prior Analytics and Posterior analytics. |
19:19 |
* masak |
.oO( Aristotle's Posterior Analytics can kiss my ass ) |
19:20 |
rindolf |
masak: yes, but a lot of that is stuff like "take on", "take out", "take in", etc. |
19:20 |
rindolf |
Which I'm not sure existed like that in Latin. |
19:20 |
rindolf |
masak: but point taken. |
19:20 |
masak |
:) |
19:20 |
PerlJam |
"take out" probably didn't :) |
19:20 |
masak |
yeah, Latin is more ablative-based :P |
19:21 |
rindolf |
masak: wasn't it Socrates who decided that philosophy can and should be done in prose instead of in verse? |
19:21 |
rindolf |
masak: which was considered profane back then. |
19:22 |
rindolf |
masak: well, it's hard to sing a conversation. |
19:22 |
rindolf |
prose is much more expressive than poetry/verse. |
19:23 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: Tell that to Dr Seuss |
19:23 |
PerlJam |
or Shakespeare |
19:23 |
rindolf |
I was told prose is a left-hemisphere function while poetry, song and music are right hemisphere functions. |
19:23 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: heh. |
19:23 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: Shakespeare wrote a lot of prose. |
19:24 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: there is this video of Elton John composing a song with the instructions of the visitor's new oven. |
19:24 |
masak |
rindolf: your counterargumentor is broken. :) |
19:24 |
rindolf |
masak: what? |
19:25 |
rindolf |
masak: there's also how the Jewish Bible is recited in Jewish ceremonies. Oh my God, what braindamage! |
19:26 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: would it have been better had I said "tell that to all the people listed here: http://www.poetrysoup.com/famous_poets/most_popular_famous_poets.aspx" ? :) |
19:26 |
masak |
rindolf: "Shakespeare wrote a lot of prose" isn't a counterargument to "Tell that to [Shakespeare] [who could write expressive poetry/verse]" |
19:26 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: heh, I just sang what you said to me. |
19:27 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: in english? |
19:27 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: yes! |
19:27 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: of course, I don't know the notes. |
19:28 |
* geekosaur |
is reminded of the opera quartet that sang the commentary to a french football (or was it rugby?) game for sky sports at one point |
19:28 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: you continue to prove your particular brand of weirdness to me :) |
19:28 |
masak |
I would *pay* to have the #perl6 logs sung to me. preferably in a Gillbert and Sullivan. |
19:29 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: I used to have good musical intuition and talent, but I've been out of practice for a long time. |
19:29 |
rindolf |
masak: heh. |
19:29 |
masak |
*style |
19:29 |
PerlJam |
I bet rhyming and verse were originally mnemonic devices anyway. Easier to remember those long stories back before the age of books. |
19:29 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: I cultivate my weirdness. I keep working on it. It requires constant care and maintenance. |
19:29 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: well, and now I'm a little hypomanic. |
19:30 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: you are doing a fine and excellent job! Keep up the good work! |
19:30 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: thanks! |
19:30 |
rindolf |
Soon I'll be the most eccentric person on earth. |
19:30 |
rindolf |
And then it's ... world domination! |
19:31 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: what's the metric by which you would measure "most eccentric"? |
19:31 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: I bought a webcam and a microphone and want to record some silly stuff and YouTube it. |
19:31 |
PerlJam |
eccentricities are all unique-ish as far as I can tell, ergo they are incomparable. |
19:32 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: yes, every eccentric person is a unique snowflake. |
19:32 |
PerlJam |
That sounded like "every SHA256 is a 16 bit CRC" |
19:32 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: thing is in real life, I appear like a normal guy, albeit somewhat dorky and geeky. |
19:33 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: even my name means Shalom-ful where Shalom is "well-being", "peace", "serenity", "tranquility", "harmony", "welfare", "safety", etc. |
19:34 |
masak |
"Which version you ought to use is mostly dependent on what you want to get done." -- http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 |
19:34 |
huf |
t...there's m..more than one way to do it? |
19:34 |
PerlJam |
masak: I wonder if we could get a whole bunch of "agnostic" quotes like that that were meant for other languages and put them on a Perl 6 page. |
19:35 |
masak |
PerlJam: clearly "most eccentric" means that the ratio of his major an minor axes exceeds anyone else's. |
19:36 |
masak |
huf: :) |
19:36 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: however, if you read my stories and other works of humour (and my essays/blog posts/etc.) you'll see some of the crazy stuff that goes below the surface. |
19:36 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Selina-Mandrake/ - this is my most farfetched story yet, and I actually feel it's my most honest one. |
19:37 |
masak |
"But wouldn't I want to avoid 2.x? It's an old language with many mistakes, and it took a major version to get them out." -- "Well, not entirely. Some of the less disruptive improvements in 3.0 and 3.1 have been backported to 2.6 and 2.7, respectively." |
19:37 |
masak |
this is highly interesting. |
19:37 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: um ... isn't that just Buffy but tweaked? |
19:37 |
huf |
rindolf: is that the one you sent an .ogg recording of to me? |
19:37 |
timotimo |
indeed, there were lots of improvements in 2.7 that make it nicer to use if you can't go to 3 outright |
19:38 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: I mean, your parody is "just" a parody |
19:38 |
PerlJam |
rindolf: it's not "out there" |
19:38 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: it's much more than that. |
19:39 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: first of all it's a parody/reflection/modernisation/interpretation/tribute/etc. |
19:39 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: and I convey a lot of my personal philosophy there. Some serious stuff. |
19:39 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: the screenplay takes itself very seriously. |
19:42 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: have you watched Buffy? |
19:43 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: my two other ideas for stories will be less farfetched. |
19:43 |
rindolf |
PerlJam: I mean my two next ones. |
19:43 |
rindolf |
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ - this is my most normal story yet. |
19:44 |
rindolf |
Kinda emulating a teen story, but much more than that. |
19:44 |
rindolf |
But the two main characters are based on Buffy and Faith from the show. |
20:01 |
pmichaud |
(gilbert and sullivan) now I'm tempted to make a song about the Perl 6 operators, in the style of Tom Lehrer's "The Elements" :-/ |
20:03 |
FROGGS |
++pmichaud |
20:03 |
FROGGS |
I'll buy that single :o) |
20:07 |
diakopter |
r: say e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e |
20:07 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«2.71828182845905â¤Â» |
20:08 |
diakopter |
n: say e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e |
20:08 |
p6eval |
niecza v24-35-g5c06e28: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Undeclared routine:� 'e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e:e' used at line 1��Unhandled exception: Check failed�� at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CO… |
20:10 |
diakopter |
r: say e::.DUMP |
20:10 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«().hashâ¤Â» |
20:11 |
diakopter |
r: say e:::poo |
20:11 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«().hashâ¤Â» |
20:12 |
diakopter |
r: say ::e:: |
20:12 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«().hashâ¤Â» |
20:12 |
diakopter |
n: say ::e:: |
20:12 |
p6eval |
niecza v24-35-g5c06e28: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: e is not a stash⤠at /tmp/XK7mtRbznG line 1 (mainline @ 3) ⤠at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4299 (ANON @ 3) ⤠at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4300 (module-CORE @ 583) ⤠at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.set… |
20:13 |
diakopter |
you're not a stash |
20:13 |
|
wk joined #perl6 |
20:14 |
diakopter |
std: __DATA__ |
20:14 |
p6eval |
std 86b102f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Undeclared name:� '__DATA__' used at line 1�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�» |
20:17 |
masak |
"you're not a stash" has to be the lamest retort in the history of retorts. :P |
20:17 |
diakopter |
you're a retort |
20:18 |
masak |
you're just making it worse :) |
20:20 |
TimToady |
masak is an expert on retort law... |
20:20 |
masak |
:P |
20:20 |
masak |
I'm been retaught by the best... |
20:21 |
diakopter |
speaking of retort reform.. |
20:21 |
* masak |
.oO( ReToady ) |
20:24 |
diakopter |
should try trap stub code executed? |
20:25 |
skids |
.oO(Why EE's never design UIs: we were taught the opposite of "Advance" is "Retard" so when we want the opposite of an "Advanced" button...) |
20:27 |
masak |
rn: try !!!; say "alive" |
20:27 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3, niecza v24-35-g5c06e28: OUTPUT«aliveâ¤Â» |
20:28 |
masak |
diakopter: I don't see why not. |
20:28 |
diakopter |
rn: try ...; say "alive" |
20:28 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«Stub code executedâ¤current instr.: 'throw' pc 350303 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:152935) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9353)â¤called from Sub 'sink' pc 381956 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:165282) (src/gen/CORE.setting:10618)â¤called from Sub 'MAIN' pc 381 (src/gen/perl6.pir:146) … |
20:28 |
p6eval |
..niecza v24-35-g5c06e28: OUTPUT«aliveâ¤Â» |
20:28 |
diakopter |
rn: try ???; say "alive" |
20:28 |
p6eval |
rakudo 2a41b3: OUTPUT«Stub code executed in block at /tmp/fUkwbTNwFT:1â¤â¤aliveâ¤Â» |
20:28 |
p6eval |
..niecza v24-35-g5c06e28: OUTPUT«aliveâ¤Â» |
20:29 |
masak |
hm. |
20:29 |
masak |
I think neither ... nor ??? should emit anything. |
20:29 |
masak |
aka Niecza is right twice. |
20:29 |
* masak |
submits rakudobug |
20:29 |
FROGGS |
TimToady: how good is STD_P5.pm6? |
20:31 |
jnthn |
??? should warn. |
20:31 |
jnthn |
... should fail |
20:31 |
jnthn |
The fail leaks out of the try |
20:31 |
jnthn |
er, or either way the fail is in sink context |
20:31 |
jnthn |
a fail in sink context throws. |
20:31 |
jnthn |
??? is correct in Rakudo |
20:32 |
jnthn |
... is debatable there; I think the current spec says that try sinks everything inside of it, in which case it shoulda sunk, failed inside the try, and been quiet. |
20:32 |
hoelzro |
I added some new stuff to my NQP fork |
20:32 |
hoelzro |
if anyone has time to take a look: https://github.com/hoelzro/nqp |
20:32 |
TimToady |
try only sinks the inside if the outside is sunk, otherwise it's eager |
20:32 |
* masak |
adds jnthn's comments to the ticket |
20:33 |
jnthn |
TimToady: oh... |
20:33 |
jnthn |
masak: So seems it's just try ... that is in question in Rakudo, not ??? :) |
20:33 |
masak |
nod. |
20:34 |
masak |
I'll change the bug title too. |
20:34 |
TimToady |
S04:1000 |
20:34 |
jnthn |
*nod* |
20:37 |
|
fgomez joined #perl6 |
20:37 |
|
woolfy joined #perl6 |
20:40 |
|
zamolxes joined #perl6 |
20:43 |
hoelzro |
anyone willing to look at my NQP changes? =) |
20:43 |
hoelzro |
I'm hoping to make it into Thursday's release |
20:53 |
|
japhb_ joined #perl6 |
20:57 |
* lizmat |
hopes FROGGS will get an answer from TimToady |
20:57 |
FROGGS |
:o) |
20:59 |
* masak |
hopes lizmat's wish comes true |
21:00 |
pmichaud |
I think we need to know what dimension "good" is being measured there. |
21:00 |
Harzilein |
hmm |
21:00 |
Harzilein |
is there a noweb clone in perl? |
21:01 |
masak |
Harzilein: hello. this is the #perl6 channel. are you sure you're asking your question in the right place? |
21:01 |
Harzilein |
nvm, found "Molly" mentioned on wikipedia |
21:01 |
Harzilein |
masak: yes, see above, i want to make an unholy mixture of perlito-translated perl6 and the perl5 supported on a particular linux appliance |
21:02 |
FROGGS |
pmichaud: fuzzy logic *g*, well, I like to here terms like: usable, broken, needs love but might work out, ... |
21:02 |
Harzilein |
(a bit further above) |
21:02 |
masak |
Harzilein: ah. I see. :) |
21:03 |
pmichaud |
FROGGS: TimToady++ can answer better than I, but I suspect it's in the "needs a little love" category. |
21:03 |
pmichaud |
however, it's also undoubtedly the best starting point for understanding p5 parsing for a p6 person |
21:03 |
jnthn |
hoelzro: The posixerrno op seems sane |
21:03 |
hoelzro |
sane! \o/ |
21:04 |
jnthn |
The nqp::posixerrnovalues I'm thinking on. |
21:04 |
jnthn |
pmichaud: https://github.com/hoelzro/nqp/commit/e8a31d99d415ef6f2555edf74892f6767b14842e if you have a moment |
21:04 |
hoelzro |
I was quite liberal with the errno constants I included |
21:04 |
pmichaud |
I'm not a fan of posixerrnovalues at the moment... at least not at the NQP level. |
21:05 |
hoelzro |
well, I didn't originally plan to include them, but yesterday people asked "how will we know what the value of nqp::posixerrno() means?" |
21:06 |
hoelzro |
which is a good question |
21:06 |
hoelzro |
honestly, I'm just going to pass it to strerror, so I don't really care =P |
21:06 |
jnthn |
The op doesn't answer it too well in so far as you get back a hash whose keys are the names, so it isn't too useful for looking up the value :) |
21:07 |
hoelzro |
jnthn: well, when I write C, I often check errno == EEXIST or something |
21:08 |
hoelzro |
so I figured that Perl 6 that would work on such a low level would as well |
21:08 |
jnthn |
ah, hm, |
21:08 |
pmichaud |
I know that nqp::posixerrno isn't a "complete solution" to the problem, but I don't know that the complete solution belongs at the nqp level, either. |
21:08 |
hoelzro |
also, is there any standard that states that the values for errno must be distinct? |
21:08 |
pmichaud |
my acceptance of nqp::posixerrno was simply to provide *something* that could access errno, not to be a full-fledged answer to every errno situation one can imagine. |
21:09 |
hoelzro |
if I have two error constants that can't possibly occur from the same function call, I could set the macros' expansions to the same value |
21:09 |
hoelzro |
pmichaud: I see your point, but if we can't evaluate errno against anything, why should it be included in NQP at all? |
21:10 |
hoelzro |
honestly, I don't care how the problem gets solved; I just want a POSIX module =) |
21:10 |
pmichaud |
as you said, you're just going to pass it to strerrno. :-) |
21:10 |
|
bluescreen10 joined #perl6 |
21:10 |
pmichaud |
so you *can* evaluate it against something :) |
21:11 |
pmichaud |
I wonder if the posix errno values belong in the nqp::const namespace. |
21:11 |
hoelzro |
that's fine with me! |
21:11 |
hoelzro |
makes more sense |
21:12 |
pmichaud |
or something like the way that nqp::const is handled. |
21:12 |
PerlJam |
pmichaud: nqp::const::POSIX_EAGAIN ? |
21:12 |
pmichaud |
PerlJam: perhaps. |
21:12 |
jnthn |
We do have an nqp::const:: now at least ;) |
21:12 |
pmichaud |
or perhaps what we really want is nqp::posix::errno and nqp::posix::EAGAIN |
21:15 |
pmichaud |
.....one could certainly do something like |
21:15 |
pmichaud |
create a file called posix.pasm |
21:15 |
pmichaud |
and inside that file, have |
21:15 |
pmichaud |
.macro_const POSIX_EAGAIN ## |
21:16 |
pmichaud |
.macro_const POSIX_E2BIG ### |
21:16 |
pmichaud |
that gets automatically generated at build time |
21:16 |
PerlJam |
and for jvm? :) |
21:16 |
pmichaud |
then nqp::const::POSIX_EAGAIN would "just work". |
21:16 |
pmichaud |
I have no idea how posix should work at the jvm level, nor do I think that nqp::posixerrno would address that either. |
21:17 |
jnthn |
"With difficulty" :) |
21:17 |
pmichaud |
I was just trying to get something to work at the C level, which is where I thought this particular feature was coming from. |
21:17 |
pmichaud |
*feature request |
21:18 |
hoelzro |
I'm happy if I can continue work on a POSIX module |
21:18 |
hoelzro |
others expressed interest in errno, and someone suggested it be made an opcode |
21:18 |
PerlJam |
does nqp need POSIXy stuff? |
21:19 |
pmichaud |
lots of people are wanting to do NativeCall stuff that requires errno |
21:19 |
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21:19 |
pmichaud |
it's not a question of "let's provide a POSIX module", it's more "how can a NativeCall person get to errno?" |
21:19 |
pmichaud |
s/person/program/ |
21:20 |
pmichaud |
so, the nqp::posixerrno op is meant to be an experimental way to start to provide that. |
21:20 |
pmichaud |
I totally wouldn't mind if it remained in the pir:: namespace, fwiw. |
21:21 |
pmichaud |
pir::nqp_posixerrno_I(), to emphasize that it's not a part of standard nqp (yet) |
21:21 |
pmichaud |
we could also call it nqp::x_posixerrno to emphasize its experimental nature. |
21:22 |
pmichaud |
the previous discussion and rationale is http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-03-16#i_6596405 |
21:24 |
pmichaud |
jnthn: any thoughts or preferences on the above? |
21:25 |
jnthn |
pmichaud: pir:: basically promises that whatever code includes it will only ever work on Parrot |
21:25 |
pmichaud |
right |
21:25 |
jnthn |
pmichaud: nqp:: means it amy compile but hit a "no, not supported" |
21:25 |
jnthn |
*may |
21:26 |
pmichaud |
at the moment, I think my preference would be |
21:27 |
pmichaud |
- create a nqp_posixerrno dynop (already done in patchset) |
21:27 |
pmichaud |
- access that dynop via either pir::nqp_posixerrno or nqp::x_posixerrno but not nqp::posixerrno |
21:27 |
PerlJam |
nqp::x_posixerrno "feels" saner to me. |
21:27 |
pmichaud |
- have something generate a posix.pasm file containing .POSIX_EWHATEVER declarations that can then be accessed via pir::const and/or nqp::const |
21:29 |
pmichaud |
I think I could live with that. |
21:29 |
pmichaud |
hoelzro: does this last part make sense? |
21:30 |
hoelzro |
pmichaud: the posix.pasm bit? |
21:30 |
hoelzro |
sounds good to me! |
21:30 |
pmichaud |
the three bullet items above |
21:30 |
hoelzro |
yeah, it all sounds good |
21:30 |
jnthn |
pmichaud: nqp::const doesn't map down to pir::const |
21:30 |
hoelzro |
if everyone's happy, I'll get to work =) |
21:30 |
jnthn |
In fact, hmm, what does it do... :) |
21:30 |
pmichaud |
jnthn: I didn't look to see how nqp::const gets handled yet. |
21:31 |
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21:31 |
pmichaud |
but pir::const is obviously workable and safe for the moment :) |
21:31 |
pmichaud |
method term:sym<nqp::const>($/) { |
21:31 |
pmichaud |
make QAST::Op.new( :op('const'), :name(~$<const>) ); |
21:31 |
pmichaud |
} |
21:32 |
pmichaud |
in QAST/Operations.nqp... |
21:33 |
pmichaud |
'CCLASS_NUMERIC', nqp::const::CCLASS_NUMERIC, |
21:33 |
pmichaud |
how in the world does _that_ work? ;-) |
21:33 |
pmichaud |
seems very circular |
21:33 |
jnthn |
I, uh, bootstrapping I guess :P |
21:33 |
pmichaud |
that's a little dangerous, fwiw. |
21:33 |
jnthn |
Yeah...did I really do that? :) |
21:34 |
pmichaud |
if the values change, the bootstrap cycle won't catch it. |
21:34 |
pmichaud |
I suggest changing those nqp:: to pir:: for now. |
21:34 |
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21:34 |
pmichaud |
afk for a bit, picking up kid from school |
21:35 |
masak |
this is the first time I've heard a circular definition described as "a little dangerous" :P |
21:35 |
masak |
seems to me it should either be completely harmless, or completely insane, not somewhere in-between... |
21:36 |
PerlJam |
masak: I think #perl6 generally has a different perspective on "a little dangerous" than most people :) |
21:37 |
masak |
heh. |
21:37 |
masak |
"This infinite regress seems a little slow to me..." |
21:38 |
dalek |
rakudo-js: fcf945d | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (2 files): |
21:38 |
dalek |
rakudo-js: Update the nqp-jvm submodule. Handle load and main correctly to make the qast test pass. |
21:38 |
dalek |
rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/fcf945d244 |
21:38 |
hoelzro |
ok, so everyone's happy with nqp::x_posixerrno and pir::const::POSIX_EWHATEVER? |
21:39 |
hoelzro |
if so, that's what I'm going to do |
21:40 |
* masak |
.oO( POSIX_MEHWHATEVER ) |
21:40 |
hoelzro |
heh |
21:41 |
hoelzro |
I found an eval { ... }; #`( no error check ) at work last week |
21:41 |
hoelzro |
someone suggested a syntax sugar function named whatever for such cases |
21:41 |
hoelzro |
whatever { #`( do dangerous stuff ) }; |
21:41 |
jnthn |
Well, "try" conveys the right sort of thing as well |
21:42 |
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21:45 |
masak |
Entonian: hi! |
21:47 |
Entonian |
masak: hi, I like to see what is going on once in a while with Perl 6 |
21:47 |
masak |
cool. yes, we're still here :) |
21:50 |
Entonian |
and I really do appreciate that |
21:52 |
masak |
you're welcome :P |
21:55 |
pmichaud |
21:39 <hoelzro> ok, so everyone's happy with nqp::x_posixerrno and pir::const::POSIX_EWHATEVER? |
21:55 |
pmichaud |
+1 |
21:55 |
hoelzro |
\o/ |
21:55 |
hoelzro |
then I shall get to work! |
22:16 |
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22:40 |
masak |
'night, #perl6 |
22:40 |
lizmat |
night masak |
22:42 |
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22:44 |
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22:48 |
* FROGGS |
.oO( sad we need whitespace in Perl 6: http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html ) |
22:53 |
lizmat |
FROGGS: is this about being able to parse this in STD5 ? |
22:54 |
FROGGS |
no, that's just something I've seen when reading blog posts about the gpw2013 |
22:55 |
FROGGS |
lizmat: still having problem to assimilate STD_P5 |
22:56 |
lizmat |
FROGGS: maybe something to look at together at the Swiss Perl Workshop? |
22:57 |
FROGGS |
lizmat: I wish I could come, but I think my family needs a bit of a rest |
22:57 |
lizmat |
too bad… but I can understand after all the work you've done at the GPW |
22:58 |
FROGGS |
no, it's not that, it's just that my youngest is currently in hospital, we're hoping to get him home at wednesday |
23:01 |
lizmat |
ah… too bad… hope everything will work out allright |
23:01 |
FROGGS |
he is almost fit, just needs the approve from the doc :o) |
23:09 |
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23:11 |
lue |
what is that about "sad we need whitespace" ? |
23:12 |
FROGGS |
lue: in Perl 6 you have to use whitespace to distinguish between infix, postfix and prefix |
23:13 |
FROGGS |
lue: like 1!2 |
23:13 |
lue |
ah. |
23:13 |
lue |
I just tried adapting that 99 bottles program you posted, and right now I'm stuck on needing to use the Form module (?) instead of $: :P |
23:27 |
sorear |
No, you don't. |
23:27 |
sorear |
$: is just a scratch variable |
23:27 |
sorear |
Formats use it, but obfuscators also use it as an extra $_ |
23:28 |
sorear |
a variable you don't have to declare that doesn't contain any unsightly letters or numbers |
23:51 |
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