Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-04-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:17 labster r: my $class = "IO";  class Bar  { also is $class }
00:17 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�No valid trait found after also�at /tmp/UwAfMxNb2k:1�------> [32mmy $class = "IO";  class Bar  { also is [33m�[31m$class }[0m�    expecting any of:�        statement list�        prefix or term�        prefix or meta-prefix�»…
00:17 labster how is $class not a term?
00:20 lue r: class Bar { also is IO }
00:20 p6eval rakudo 00ca10:  ( no output )
00:27 labster of course that works. it's just a LTA error message.
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01:23 lee_ these metaops seem to get passed a Parcel, with the Range as the private storage attribute. which makes it rather hard to optimize
01:24 lee_ so you can't access .min or .max directly on the Range
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02:15 gtodd r: my $class = "IO";  class Bar  { also is $class }
02:15 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�No valid trait found after also�at /tmp/MYxf4vlZq6:1�------> [32mmy $class = "IO";  class Bar  { also is [33m�[31m$class }[0m�    expecting any of:�        statement list�        prefix or term�        prefix or meta-prefix�»…
02:15 gtodd hmm
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02:42 japhb_ Is there a better way to make an object attribute required than this construction?
02:42 japhb_ r: lass Foo { has $.foo = die "Must supply a value for attribute foo to create a " ~ self.^name; }; my Foo $f .= new;
02:42 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�You cannot declare attribute '$.foo' here; maybe you'd like a class or a role?�at /tmp/9ZXB7P7f6u:1�------> [32mlass Foo { has $.foo [33m�[31m= die "Must supply a value for attribute[0m�    expecting any of:�        scoped declara…
02:42 japhb_ r: class Foo { has $.foo = die "Must supply a value for attribute foo to create a " ~ self.^name; }; my Foo $f .= new;
02:42 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤===SORRY!===␤Must supply a value for attr…
02:43 japhb_ That's odd ... I don't get the uninitialized value warnings at the command line.
02:45 japhb_ Anyway, the point was, is there a better / cleaner way to force the caller to set certain object attributes?  I've got a couple classes with a half dozen or more required attributes, and the above construction gets boilerplate-ugly.
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04:49 japhb .oO( Either I have gone crazy, or the IO::Socket{,::INET} implementation has. )
04:52 japhb Is it just me, or is the handling of encoding, line separators, packet boundaries, and detecting end of data in IO::Socket and IO::Socket::INET very ... confused?
04:52 * japhb decides to let his subconcious brane stew on it for a while
04:52 japhb &
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05:43 moritz jnthn: some of the recent commits broke error reporting
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05:43 moritz not ok 2 - Runtime error contains line number
05:43 moritz #      got err: "use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context\nuse of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context\nuse of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context\nuse of uninitialized value of type Mu in string cont
05:43 moritz ext\n===SORRY!===\n6\n"
05:43 moritz that's from t/spec/integration/error-reporting.t
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05:51 moritz a simple perl6 -e 'die 6' reproduces it
05:52 moritz fwiw this is on Singapore-62-g8051900
05:53 moritz oh, and lots changed since then. Maybe I should update before complaining :-)
05:53 timotimo japhb: maybe you can put a type restriction with :D or what it's called in the submethod BUILD
05:54 timotimo r: sub boing(Any:D $foo) { say "yay" }; boing(1); Boing(Any)
05:54 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared name:�    Boing used at line 1��»
05:54 timotimo r: sub boing(Any:D $foo) { say "yay" }; boing(1); boing(Any)
05:54 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«yay␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤===SORRY!===␤Parameter '$foo' require…
05:54 timotimo i wonder where that comes from. probably from the guts of rakudo?
05:55 diakopter the YAPC::NA schedule is up
05:59 masak good morning, #perl6
05:59 moritz good am, ma<tab>
06:00 moritz timotimo: yes, that's what I meant with broken error reporting
06:00 masak good mo<tab>, mo<tab>
06:00 masak diakopter: \o/
06:00 diakopter masak: I need abstracts for your 3 Zero to Perl 6 talks.
06:01 diakopter masak: also, you have 4x as many talks as everyone else.
06:01 timotimo moritz: do you think a bisect would help?
06:01 moritz timotimo: maybe
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06:04 masak diakopter: schedule looks good. I'll send the abstracts during the day.
06:04 masak or more likely, just add them, I guess.
06:12 diakopter \o/
06:12 tadzik good morning #perl6
06:12 diakopter masak++ for ^4
06:12 yoleaux 9 Apr 2013 22:52Z <japhb> tadzik: Please take a gander at the panda enhancement idea starting at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2013-04-09#i_6684351 and let me know what you think
06:14 * diakopter read that as  take a gender
06:23 masak &
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06:25 tadzik japhb: well, you can always write yourself a panda with subclassed Panda::Ecocystem, which will fetch multiple projects.json and merge them afterwards
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06:40 timotimo my bisect says 5cb7046ff is the first bad commit
06:40 timotimo "add ForeignCode, to wrap foreign code objects".
06:41 labster good $local-time, #perl6
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06:41 timotimo but i couldn't get nqp to downgrade just with configure.pl
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06:51 moritz perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp=$(cat tools/build/NQP_REVISION) should force it rebuild the right revision
06:53 timotimo ah
06:54 timotimo and nqp/tools/build/PARROT_REVISION?
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07:05 timotimo jnthn: i hope that hint helps? "my bisect says 5cb7046ff is the first bad commit"
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07:06 FROGGS_ timotimo: what's wrong?
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07:09 timotimo r: die 6;
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07:09 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤===SORRY!===␤6␤»
07:09 timotimo this is wrong
07:09 labster yes, that seems fairly wrong.
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07:14 FROGGS_ hmmm
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07:14 moritz it's not too surprising, because the backtrace stuff marshalls foreign objects quite a bit
07:16 FROGGS_ maybe we just need to hide some methods from backtrace? like src/core/ForeignCode.pm method gist/Str ?
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07:21 moritz travel&
07:22 labster FROGGS_: After reading about Moe and the history of perl 6, I've been more in a mood to break some perl 5 compatibility.  Would we lose that much by moving case_tolerant out of File::Spec and into its own module?
07:24 FROGGS_ labster: does it help if it would be in a separate module?
07:24 labster Reasons include: it's working but it's not awesome and nothing in core really needs it.
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07:25 FROGGS_ hmmm, okay
07:25 labster I don't really care either way, but it just seems like an extra bit of commonly used code which is rarely used.
07:27 FROGGS_ what module would be the best to put it in? File::System? (maybe a bad name), which lets you peek and poke your volumes/devices?
07:29 labster Actually I kind of like the name, I was thinking of File::Spec::Case or something lame like that.  Though If we had File::System, we'd probably want other stuff to go in there too.
07:30 domidumont joined #perl6
07:31 labster cpan says: File::System - A virtual file system written in pure Perl.  It looks sort of like Path::Class.
07:34 diakopter .u lightning
07:34 yoleaux U+2607 LIGHTNING [So] (☇)
07:35 diakopter .u bolt
07:35 yoleaux U+2EAA CJK RADICAL BOLT OF CLOTH [So] (⺪)
07:35 yoleaux U+2F66 KANGXI RADICAL BOLT OF CLOTH [So] (⽦)
07:35 yoleaux U+1F529 NUT AND BOLT [So] (🔩)
07:35 diakopter .u voltage
07:35 yoleaux U+26A1 HIGH VOLTAGE SIGN [So] (âš¡)
07:35 diakopter .u volt
07:35 yoleaux U+26A1 HIGH VOLTAGE SIGN [So] (âš¡)
07:35 diakopter .u zig
07:35 yoleaux U+035B COMBINING ZIGZAG ABOVE [Mn] (◌͛)
07:35 yoleaux U+1DCF COMBINING ZIGZAG BELOW [Mn] (◌᷏)
07:35 yoleaux U+21AF DOWNWARDS ZIGZAG ARROW [So] (↯)
07:39 FROGGS_ labster: dunno what else it could be named then... but I guess we dont need this functionality right now?
07:40 kresike joined #perl6
07:40 kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
07:41 labster hi kresike
07:42 snearch joined #perl6
07:44 diakopter .u A138
07:44 yoleaux U+A138 YI SYLLABLE DDI [Lo] (ꄸ)
07:45 toddr__ joined #perl6
07:45 diakopter .u A138
07:45 yoleaux U+A138 YI SYLLABLE DDI [Lo] (ꄸ)
07:47 timotimo ingy: are you planning on finishing YAML and TestML some time soon?
07:47 timotimo i only now realize that there's no actual yaml loading code in there yet
07:48 kresike labster, o/
07:48 labster \o
07:49 hoelzro ahoy #perl6
07:51 diakopter .u bulb
07:51 yoleaux U+1F4A1 ELECTRIC LIGHT BULB [So] (💡)
07:52 labster FROGGS_: I can't think of any places we need to find case-tolerant in Rakudo.  Actually, it's hard to think of any applications where it's important to know -- usually you'd just test .e or match m:i//.  Let me look around and see if I can find it used in perl 5 somewhere.
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08:07 labster Okay, I looked through every result for case_tolerant in google, and the only result on all 13 pages that looks like a use case (i.e. isn't documentation or a commit by me or an RT bug) is here: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=796321
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08:17 FROGGS labster: I think we can just strip it out for now
08:18 labster FROGGS, I have mostly working code.  I'll brew a module.
08:19 kaleem joined #perl6
08:20 FROGGS k
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08:32 jnthn Hm, I'm guessing all the tests that show up the error reporting issue are marked # icu, given I had a clean spectest run here.
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08:36 timotimo jnthn: do you imagine building on your work someone would go ahead and do a rakudo.Net?
08:36 timotimo is that a sensible proposition?
08:39 * lizmat thinks that was the idea all along, to support multiple VM's, no?
08:39 lizmat and good morning #perl6!
08:40 timotimo sure, but someone would have to come along and actually do it
08:40 hoelzro lizmat: o/
08:41 lizmat hoelzro: /o
08:46 FROGGS I know that Go is not a VM but I'd love to see a nqp@Go
08:49 hoelzro I thought someone was working on that?
08:49 jnthn timotimo: The CLR is not all that different from the JVM, so following the same path I took with the JVM stuff would probably produce similar results - with whoever does it having the added benefit that they don't have to do a bunch of the one-off work to make NQP sufficiently portable.
08:50 timotimo that's very good to hear
08:51 * jnthn is looking into the error reporting regression
08:52 jnthn I've got it down to a couple of places in the code that probably need updates.
08:54 moritz lemme guess, src/core/{Exception,Backtrace}.pm
08:54 jnthn Right
08:55 moritz travel for real&
08:55 daxim joined #perl6
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08:58 lizmat lotrrotk
09:10 masak lizmat: I think you have to be more specific than that. :)
09:10 lizmat just a case of ww
09:10 * masak .oO( Lord Of The Rings Return Of The King, that took me far too long )
09:10 masak it must be early still.
09:11 * jnthn was wondering what lizmat knew about the epicness of moritz's travel :P
09:11 masak but I got gardenpathed by the fact that it also looks a bit like "rotfl"
09:12 jnthn Got a fix for the bustage I caused; spectesting.
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09:16 timotimo the next thing i'll try out for my brownian tree thing is how making a resizing sparse array will change the performance
09:17 timotimo that shall be interesting.
09:20 lizmat we live in interesting times ;-)
09:20 dalek rakudo/nom: b64279b | jnthn++ | src/core/ (3 files):
09:20 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix error reporting breakage.
09:20 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:20 dalek rakudo/nom: Wasn't shown up by the non-"# icu" spectests, so went unnoticed in the
09:20 dalek rakudo/nom: commit that introduced it.
09:20 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b64279b011
09:20 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
09:22 lizmat nr: say cat <a b c>
09:22 p6eval rakudo 00ca10: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared routine:�    cat used at line 1��»
09:22 p6eval ..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m​===[0m��Undeclared routine:�     'cat' used at line 1��Unhandled exception: Check failed��  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) �  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) �  at /home…
09:22 lizmat I assume 'cat' is NYI ?
09:22 masak correct.
09:23 masak and I'll believe in lazy strings when I see them. :)
09:23 jnthn Yeah. And probably a candidate for a "stuff we won't do until after 6.0.0"
09:23 lizmat ack
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09:59 nwc10 jnthn: that recent change breaks stuff quite badly with SEGVs in the spectest on "my" machine: http://pasta.test-smoke.org/478
10:00 nwc10 valgrind not happy
10:00 nwc10 ==8928== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
10:00 nwc10 ==8928==    at 0x4FA099E: pop_parser_state (imcc.l:1268)
10:00 nwc10 OK, it's broken. Not certain if it's that change.
10:02 jnthn nwc10: Odd, spectest was clean again here.
10:02 jnthn And IMCC is a long, long way from what I just changed.
10:03 jnthn oh, hang on...
10:03 jnthn shit
10:03 jnthn I need better coffee...
10:03 nwc10 :-)
10:03 nwc10 next one down is the fun bit?
10:03 nwc10 use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context==8928== Invalid read of size 8
10:03 nwc10 ==8928==    at 0xDA72638: Rakudo_cont_store (container.c:65)
10:03 nwc10 ==8928==    by 0xDA6AFD7: Parrot_perl6_container_store_p_p (perl6_ops.c:4827)
10:03 dalek nqp: ebd44e7 | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
10:03 dalek nqp: Avoid a NULL escaping.
10:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ebd44e7494
10:04 jnthn I needed to push that too...
10:04 dalek rakudo/nom: 39cf717 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
10:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Get nqp::getcodeobj NULL fix.
10:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/39cf717516
10:04 jnthn ...and dump that.
10:05 jnthn *bump
10:05 jnthn fail...
10:05 jnthn Those should help.
10:05 nwc10 step away from the keyboard, and seek help from a qualified barista? :-)
10:06 nwc10 (or just give up for the day and open a beer?)
10:06 BigBear Guten morgen - Good morning #perl6
10:06 * jnthn has a nice coffee machine here, but the current batch of stuff he's putting into it wasn't one of his better selections...
10:06 jnthn heh, I think I'm meant to be doing $dayjob stuff today ;)
10:07 jnthn I guess I could always blame the tap water, which we're curently not meant to drink without boiling here thanks to some kind of contamination...
10:07 jnthn .oO( see, beer is the SAFE option! )
10:07 nwc10 :-)
10:08 kresike jnthn, fish have sex in water ... no one should drink that stuff :)
10:09 FROGGS kresike: fishes do everything in water...
10:11 lizmat jnthn: historically, that was the reason beer was preferred over water as a supplier of fluids
10:12 BigBear tadzik:not sure you'll see this, but I have gone and fixed panda on windows 7 pro on latest R* by removing the File::Tools files under 'site' (File/Find.pm + File/Find.pir & Shell/Command.pm + Shell/Command.pir) and leaving the install using the ones under 'lib'
10:13 dalek ecosystem: 3696d0e | (Brent Laabs)++ | META.list:
10:13 dalek ecosystem: add File::Directory::Tree
10:13 dalek ecosystem: Port of File::Path::Tiny to Perl 6 - create and delete directory trees
10:13 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/3696d0e04c
10:20 FROGGS can somebody help me? I've got a statement block within the grammar-actions, and I want to wrap its AST within an implicit loop over one element
10:21 FROGGS like: $past := $<sblock>.ast; $past := QAST::Op.new( :op<call>, :name<map>, QAST::IVal.new('1'), $past )
10:22 FROGGS err, *callmethod
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10:23 jnthn Does this not work?
10:23 FROGGS no, I'll paste the error in a sec
10:24 FROGGS Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0
10:24 jnthn Wait what do you mean by a statement block?
10:25 FROGGS code is actually: $past := $<sblock>.ast; $past := QAST::Op.new( :op<call>, :name<map>, QAST::IVal.new(:value('1')), $past )
10:25 FROGGS jnthn: it is an sblock
10:25 jnthn What sort of AST does it produce?
10:26 FROGGS I've got a rule statement_control:sym<{ }> { <?before '{' > <sblock> }
10:26 FROGGS or do you want to get the ast, produced by method sblock?
10:27 jnthn yeah, 'cus I'm guessing that's where the problem may be...
10:27 FROGGS method sblock returns a reference_to_code_object(...)
10:27 FROGGS damn, pizza is there now :/
10:28 jnthn OK, and does that code object accept an argument?
10:28 FROGGS hmmm, dont think so
10:28 FROGGS I see what you mean
10:29 FROGGS the loop wants to give "me" the iterator, and my block doesnt take one
10:29 FROGGS thanks!
10:29 FROGGS lunch &
10:30 BigBear tadzik: i have commented on gist showing the way the "SAME" action under win 7 breaks  but under mac os x has no effect? last commnets under https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5331694
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10:47 tadzik BigBear: sorry, I don't have time to look at this right now
10:59 FROGGS back
10:59 FROGGS jnthn: so I need to add a signature, right?
11:02 FROGGS .u heart
11:02 yoleaux U+2619 REVERSED ROTATED FLORAL HEART BULLET [So] (☙)
11:02 yoleaux U+2661 WHITE HEART SUIT [So] (♡)
11:02 yoleaux U+2665 BLACK HEART SUIT [So] (♥)
11:02 FROGGS jnthn: I ♥ you!
11:02 Juerd That's colorschemism!
11:02 Juerd They're the other way around on my white-on-black terminal
11:03 FROGGS should be called "filled heart suit"
11:03 nwc10 jnthn: All tests successful.
11:06 jnthn FROGGS: Yes, and you can probably steal code to do it...make_topic_block comes to mind
11:06 jnthn nwc10: phew!
11:07 FROGGS well, I used <sblock(1)> which sets $*IMPLICIT, will test if that is enough
11:07 nwc10 you can drink the coffee again, if you want
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11:10 jnthn FROGGS: Probably :)
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11:32 masak Juerd: that's nothing: what about the new GREEN BOOK and ORANGE BOOK that tadzik found?
11:32 FROGGS .u book
11:33 masak the Unicode consortium has jumped the shark.
11:33 yoleaux U+1F4D1 BOOKMARK TABS [So] (📑)
11:33 yoleaux U+1F4D5 CLOSED BOOK [So] (📕)
11:33 yoleaux U+1F4D6 OPEN BOOK [So] (📖)
11:33 FROGGS .u green
11:33 yoleaux U+1F005 MAHJONG TILE GREEN DRAGON [So] (🀅)
11:33 yoleaux U+1F34F GREEN APPLE [So] (🍏)
11:33 yoleaux U+1F49A GREEN HEART [So] (💚)
11:34 nwc10 .g 1F4A9
11:34 yoleaux http://www.fileformat.info​/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/
11:34 nwc10 ah
11:34 nwc10 .u 1F4A9
11:34 yoleaux U+1F4A9 PILE OF POO [So] (💩)
11:34 nwc10 that one
11:35 masak memo to the Unicode consortium: "stahp!"
11:35 masak "you're not helping"
11:35 masak "we liked it better when you did alphabets"
11:35 Juerd masak: Hahaha
11:36 nwc10 It's a shame that the Fake Unicode Consortium has been rather quiet currently
11:37 daxim the consortium only standardises exisiting character repertoires!
11:37 daxim if you don't like poo in your characters, then tell docomo to revoke
11:40 nwc10 Yes, Fake Unicode Consortium mentioned the apples, and that explanation came up in the comments: https://plus.google.com/10992536​4564856140495/posts/bZbVLhHV52n
11:40 nwc10 er, reasoning: Google was saying, "here is an existing character set that our users already use and want/expect to be able to search".
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11:55 FROGGS jnthn: what do I have to do to add another block to map's body? It only accepts one positional, but how do I have to wrap it?
11:56 FROGGS if I call infix:<,>, it tells me that there is no method count for parcel
11:56 FROGGS which makes sense of course
11:56 jnthn ...add another block?
11:57 * jnthn doesn't understand the question...
11:59 FROGGS what I want to do is to support the statement: BLOCK continue BLOCK
11:59 FROGGS both block should be wrapped by the loop we had earlier
11:59 FROGGS *blocks
12:01 jnthn Then yeah, you'd need to wrap the two in another block that calls them in turn, if that's the semantics you want
12:01 jnthn Should it only run the second one under certain conditions in that construct?
12:01 * jnthn is a very rusty Perl 5 programmer...
12:02 FROGGS the continue block should run unless you call 'last' within the main block
12:02 jnthn Ah, I remembered rightish :)
12:02 jnthn Anyway, doing what I suggested should work out
12:02 jnthn Oh, but what about if you call "next"?
12:02 FROGGS k, thanks :o)
12:03 FROGGS should call the continue block too
12:03 jnthn Yeah, then what I suggested won't work for that :P
12:03 FROGGS next would be actually a noop there
12:03 FROGGS meh
12:03 FROGGS :o)
12:03 jnthn Well, not a no-op really, it leaves the block?
12:03 jnthn Anyway, you could always install the continue block as a NEXT phaser ;)
12:03 jnthn If you kept that bit of infrastructure in place :)
12:04 jnthn Then it will probably do the Right Thing.
12:04 FROGGS that's what I tried for: 'for BLOCK continue BLOCK', and I think I have more grey hair now...
12:04 jnthn The phasers handling code doesn't actually care in the slightest if the continue block is outside of the other block.
12:04 FROGGS it is easy if the next phaser is within the loop
12:04 FROGGS hmmmm
12:05 jnthn Yeah...you need both code refs around
12:05 jnthn But provided you have that...you're good.
12:06 FROGGS well, I came to the point where it added the phaser (according to my debug output)... but it didnt get fired
12:06 timotimo FROGGS: do you have any modules in particular that you're trying to get to run first? or a few "success stories" so far? :)
12:07 FROGGS errm, my success stories are that about 10 test files pass
12:07 FROGGS need to provide the core modules some day
12:07 timotimo oh, core modules, of course
12:07 timotimo i guess some of them are implemented in C in perl5?
12:08 FROGGS think so, yes
12:09 FROGGS had no time yet to figure that out
12:12 timotimo do you already know how to supply a bunch of modules that would only get loaded if you use v5?
12:13 timotimo like if a module of the same name existed in v6 space, that would need to be overshadowed perhaps? or more probably explicitly asked for
12:16 FROGGS timotimo: the behavior of having modules of different auth's is specced
12:16 FROGGS NYI though
12:16 FROGGS but I have influence of load_module from within v5 land
12:16 timotimo ah, nice.
12:16 timotimo any low hanging fruit i could perhaps look at? those modules could be implemented in v6, right?
12:17 FROGGS ya, if they have exactly the same api they could be in perl6
12:17 FROGGS wourd work like a charm
12:18 timotimo well, all those new fancy typed exceptions might be problematic?
12:18 FROGGS no, they stringify, I dont think they actually hurt
12:19 FROGGS I'm not sure about LHFs though :/
12:19 timotimo mhm
12:19 timotimo that's all right
12:20 FROGGS but I would actually would like to get some help :o9
12:20 FROGGS :o)
12:20 FROGGS it is not really an LHF, but maybe you want to implement labels in rakudo? (for 6 and 5)
12:21 timotimo not really LHF, no :(
12:23 FROGGS ya, might be true
12:23 FROGGS but I know one thing
12:23 FROGGS you could go over the operators, and add missing dispatchers... http://perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html
12:24 * jnthn can offer a few LHF that would help with JVM porting stuff
12:24 FROGGS jnthn: make a list/doc
12:28 timotimo jnthn: if they are low enough for me, i'll check them out
12:28 timotimo since i have no perl5 experience whatsoever, jakudo is more interesting to me than rakudo5
12:29 jnthn https://gist.github.com/jnthn/5354193
12:29 jnthn There's 2, I'll add more as I have time
12:30 jnthn They don't need JVM skills either, or even getting nqp-jvm-prep. Just stuff to make Rakudo itself more portable.
12:30 jnthn Though adding the things mentioned in there to the JVM stuff is welcome too ;)
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12:43 [Coke] rn: BEGIN CHECK INIT END START ENTER LEAVE KEEP UNDO FIRST NEXT LAST LEAVE PRE 1
12:43 p6eval rakudo 39cf71:  ( no output )
12:43 p6eval ..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0m��Action method statement_prefix:LAST not yet implemented at /tmp/h1_3uAxpuT line 1 (EOF):�------> [32mVE KEEP UNDO FIRST NEXT LAST LEAVE PRE 1[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m��Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method statement_leve…
12:44 jnthn Use all the phasers!
12:45 [Coke] I tried, you can't!
12:45 jnthn Rakudo let you :P
12:45 [Coke] (not without some block magic near the end. PRE POST CONTROL CATCH get twitchy when you try to line them up. ;)
12:45 jnthn oh...
12:46 jnthn Yeah, those will be trickier :)
12:46 jnthn rn: BEGIN CHECK INIT END START ENTER say 'omgz'
12:46 p6eval rakudo 39cf71, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«omgz␤»
12:46 jnthn :)
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12:47 masak uhn.
12:47 masak wait -- when does that run? :)
12:47 jnthn END time
12:47 masak rn: BEGIN CHECK INIT END START ENTER say 'omgz'; say "x"
12:47 p6eval rakudo 39cf71, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«omgz␤x␤»
12:47 masak don't think so.
12:47 jnthn oh, maybe not
12:47 jnthn :)
12:47 * masak may have found a bug! :P
12:47 jnthn Oh...
12:48 masak rn: BEGIN END say 'omgz'; say "x"
12:48 p6eval rakudo 39cf71, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«x␤omgz␤»
12:48 masak rn: BEGIN CHECK END say 'omgz'; say "x"
12:48 p6eval rakudo 39cf71, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«x␤omgz␤»
12:48 jnthn Oh...I see why
12:48 jnthn You didn't write a block after the END
12:48 masak rn: BEGIN CHECK INIT END say 'omgz'; say "x"
12:48 p6eval rakudo 39cf71, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«x␤omgz␤»
12:49 jnthn so that ENTER attaches directly to the current block you are in.
12:49 jnthn Which is correct, I think.
12:49 masak rn: BEGIN CHECK INIT END { START ENTER say 'omgz' }; say "x"
12:49 p6eval rakudo 39cf71, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«x␤omgz␤»
12:49 masak indeed.
12:49 masak but... why does it attach?
12:50 masak shouldn't that attachment run at END time?
12:50 jnthn Phasers are block traits.
12:50 masak ah. right.
12:50 masak yes, no bug here.
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12:59 isBEKaml hello, #perl6!
13:00 hoelzro isBEKaml: ahoy!
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13:02 colomon o/
13:04 isBEKaml colomon, hoelzro: hey! :)
13:05 isBEKaml hoelzro: wow, I was just looking at your pygments-main pull req a couple of days back. Boy, that's huge.. I wonder how that maintainer keeps up with all these pull requests on the pipeline. :)
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13:05 hoelzro yeah, I know! Perl 6 was a lot of work
13:05 hoelzro but it was actually easier than I expected
13:05 hoelzro I had the first 95% working in like a week
13:05 * hoelzro needs to follow up on the comments
13:06 isBEKaml I feel sorry for that maintainer, it's a lot of work just to integrate things. :)
13:06 isBEKaml what with every language needing work and all.
13:07 hoelzro yeah
13:07 colomon does this mean github will be getting proper p6 highlighting soon?
13:08 isBEKaml colomon: if that gets integrated, yeah. I won't expect it soonish, though.
13:08 colomon yay! and boo.
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13:10 hoelzro I have to submit a PR to linguist as well
13:10 hoelzro but that should simply be a few lines in a YAML file plus a corpus of sample p6 data
13:10 hoelzro hard part's over
13:11 hoelzro well, the politics of a pull request are in front of me, so maybe not =/
13:12 daxim what did rakudo used to employ for ffi?  not libffi, but a different C lib?
13:13 jnthn Parrot had some amount of its own ffi stuff a while back, but it was fairly limited. These days, Rakudo's ffi support (which is actually implemented as part of NQP) uses the dyncall library.
13:15 daxim dyncall, that was the name, thanks
13:15 jnthn Yeah, but that's not "used to". That's "now". :)
13:16 gtodd hmm I play around with some of the code snippets posted in the channel and ...
13:16 gtodd our token word {\w+}; ('word:arg1:arg2' ~~ / ^ <keyword=.word> [ ':' <arg=.word> ]* $ /).gist.say
13:16 gtodd for example
13:16 gtodd prints out strange characters
13:16 daxim aha, I take it it's an optional dep?  before asking here I looked first at the requirements of rakudo in the package manager of my distro, it's not listed there
13:17 jnthn gtodd: Not sure about the strange chars, but I'm pretty sure you want <arg=&word> there.
13:17 jnthn daxim: No, we bundle it with NQP; it's built as part of the NQP build process.
13:17 gtodd hehe
13:17 daxim aha
13:18 isBEKaml daxim: dyncall is part of nqp
13:18 gtodd ok ... just finding the unicodeness font and terminal madness starting to leak into my world more frequently
13:19 isBEKaml That just reminds me, nqp, parrot and rakudo are all still in the pending queue here: http://slackbuilds.org/pending/ (for slackware)
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13:21 jnthn A lot of the work was not just using dyncall, but getting C structs and C arrays expressable as normal Perl 6 types/objects, so you can do stuff like class Point is repr('CStruct') { has num $!x; has num $!y; .. } and it organizes the memory like a C struct would, so it can be easily passed off to C land and reflect any changes that happen thanks to the called C code.
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13:22 nwc10 jnthn: interesting. I didn't know that.
13:22 gtodd that line (i.e.  "our token word {\w+}; ('word:arg1:arg2' ~~ / ^ <keyword=.word> [ ':' <arg=&word> ]* $ /).gist.say"  ) prints out
13:22 gtodd ï½¢word:arg1:arg2ï½£
13:22 gtodd keyword => ï½¢wordï½£
13:22 gtodd arg => ï½¢arg1ï½£
13:22 gtodd arg => ï½¢arg2ï½£
13:23 jnthn Looks correct in my font... :)
13:23 gtodd viz. --> ï½¢  ï½£
13:23 nwc10 that follows though. "Being able to dynmically generate a call stack" isn't that useful if your C API takes anything more funky than non-aggregate value parameters
13:23 jnthn .u  ï½¢  ï½£
13:23 yoleaux U+0020 SPACE [Zs] ( )
13:23 yoleaux U+FF62 HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET [Ps] (ï½¢)
13:23 yoleaux U+FF63 HALFWIDTH RIGHT CORNER BRACKET [Pe] (ï½£)
13:23 gtodd the little backwards  L and the upside down L
13:24 jnthn nwc10: Right.
13:24 jnthn nwc10: And since we have representation polymorphism in Perl 6, we can do nice stuff in this area
13:24 gtodd jnthn: yes so those are correct  (I remember them being part of perl6 and having a meaning etc)
13:24 FROGGS gtodd: matches are printed like that
13:25 gtodd yes and they worked
13:25 gtodd but recently started printing square boxes :-(
13:25 isBEKaml hoelzro: have you had some previous pull requests to either linguist or pygments?
13:25 FROGGS keep in mind, 'say' does that, 'print' not
13:25 hoelzro isBEKaml: this is my first
13:26 gtodd even though my terminal and font are constant ... so ... I am wondering why :-)   possibly a change to libicu or or??
13:26 isBEKaml hoelzro: ah
13:27 gtodd FROGGS: hmm ok maybe when I was playing around previously I did not use say
13:27 isBEKaml .u square
13:27 yoleaux U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET [Ps] ([)
13:27 yoleaux U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET [Pe] (])
13:27 yoleaux U+033B COMBINING SQUARE BELOW [Mn] (◌̻)
13:28 gtodd until this point I have led a sheltered life with respect to unicode/fonts/terminals/locales/perl6
13:29 gtodd since everything "just worked" .... I felt like I was using a Mac or something
13:29 FROGGS gtodd: no, I mean if you do "our token word {\w+}; ('word:arg1:arg2' ~~ / ^ <keyword=.word> [ ':' <arg=&word> ]* $ /).gist.print" you dont get the nice L's
13:30 gtodd it works as expect if I stop using OTF TT fonts in my xterms
13:32 gtodd FROGGS: even .print does not work ... I've probably found some whackiness in my XTerm, the codepoints "supported" by my font etc. etc.
13:32 gtodd Too many layers to expect that it was the constantly changing perl6 that changed something ... :)
13:34 * FROGGS calls it progress :o)
13:36 gtodd hah .. what impressed me earlier (but this must have been my system being set up correctly) was that things printed/displayed correctly in my terminal/console/xterm etc
13:36 frdmn|afk joined #perl6
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14:55 cognominal is there any  caching for Perl 6 methods equivalent of -X in Perl 5 ?
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14:59 FROGGS joined #perl6
15:13 gtodd FROGGS: apparently I had a framebuffer device on my console
15:14 gtodd which made  U+FF62 HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET [Ps] (ï½¢)  etc. display correctly
15:14 FROGGS ahh, interesting
15:17 gtodd not sure what is happening with my xterms hah ... the fonts I'm using (dejavu) have coverage for everything ♡  â™¥  ... but not ï½¢ or ï½£  :-)
15:19 FROGGS hmmm, my terminal tells me it uses 'monospace 10'
15:19 FROGGS whatever font that is
15:21 gtodd clearly something auto updated and screwed everything up :)
15:22 isBEKaml joined #perl6
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15:22 FROGGS ya, I'm using ubuntu too *g*
15:22 gtodd heh
15:25 gtodd does anyone know why my builds of rakudo (using --gen-parrot which pulls latest parrot) seem to break on building documentation for parrot/docs/ops/bits.pod ?  if I cd  parrot/docs ; make and then cd .. perl Configure.pl and build parrot and then add cd to rakudo and start over --with-parrot ... it works and builds
15:26 gtodd is the parrot build expected to break on little things like that now and then?
15:26 pmichaud gtodd:  No, I wouldn't expect that.
15:26 pmichaud note that --gen-parrot doesn't pull latest parrot.
15:27 * [Coke] tries to figure out what perl5 -X does - can someone point me to the appropriate perldoc?
15:27 pmichaud --gen-parrot pulls a revision of Parrot that is expected to work with Rakudo.  That's not necessarily (or even usually) the "latest Parrot".
15:27 [Coke] gtodd: if you are upgrading parrot in between builds, parrot is not guaranteed to build clean if you had already started a build in a previous version.
15:27 isBEKaml [Coke]: perlrun, I think
15:28 gtodd hmm ok it seems like everything but stuff under parrot/docs/ops builds normally and it's really only bits.pod that breaks
15:28 [Coke] (I often do a (cd parrot && git clean --xdf) to avoid tht sort of (infrequent) issue.
15:28 pmichaud one can do  --gen-parrot=master to be sure to pull the "latest parrot".
15:28 isBEKaml [Coke]: yep, disables all warnings, it says. :)
15:28 [Coke] URK. "perldoc perlrun" generates lots of ugly bold <C2>'s
15:29 gtodd it seems to be breaking when it trys to generate manual pages from pods?
15:29 [Coke] cognominal: did you mean -X above?
15:29 gtodd [Coke]: ok will try that
15:30 gtodd pmichaud: great ... this will help me simulate a release  locally :-)
15:30 FROGGS [Coke]: I dont see a connection of -X and method caching
15:30 jnthn o/ pmichaud
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15:33 pmichaud o/ jnthn
15:33 jnthn pmichaud: I'm fairly likely going to be looking at getting the JVM stuff into the NQP repo sometime around the weekend. If you don't beat me to it, I'll take the opportunity to rename all the files to .pm then
15:33 jnthn uh
15:33 jnthn to .nqp !!
15:34 pmichaud I'm very unlikely to beat you to it.
15:34 pmichaud +1 to moving the jvm stuff into nqp repo. btw.
15:34 pmichaud (I saw your query about it yesterday)
15:34 jnthn Yeah, I think now is about the time.
15:34 pmichaud +1 to renaming .pm to .nqp, also.
15:34 jnthn It passes just about all the non-Parrot-specific tests that the Parrot implementation does.
15:34 pmichaud \o/
15:35 jnthn Am gradually working towards getting Rakudo into shape for making a push towards supporting that on the JVM also. :)
15:36 pmichaud excellent :)
15:36 pmichaud it will hopefully be good material for my yapc::na talk :)
15:37 gtodd jnthn: you might know the answer to this re: LLVM project ... what is the vmkit ?!?
15:39 jnthn gtodd: A starting point for building VMs using some of the LLVM infrastructure. Still leaves you a lot of building to do, though, afaik...
15:39 gtodd ah ok it seems more of a research phd dissertation project at this stage but I wondered if it is something that needs to be part of the resulting vm
15:40 gtodd whether you'd be tied to llvm in someway
15:40 isBEKaml gtodd: vmkit, IIRC - is LLVM's work towards the jvm (?)
15:42 jnthn isBEKaml: iiuc, they're building a JVM implementation using vmkit but it could in theory be used to build some other VM too
15:43 jnthn Not sure how many examples of that there are.
15:43 isBEKaml jnthn: yeah, it seems pretty barren/dead ATM
15:44 gtodd ok ... so it's early days or the end of time ... but basic takeaway is that vm's are cooler than vc's  :)
15:44 isBEKaml jnthn: last commit into vmkit was a lone commit in Jan2013.
15:44 gtodd so people are writing and porting etc.
15:44 isBEKaml http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/vm​kit-commits/2013-January/thread.html
15:45 isBEKaml gtodd: VCs?
15:45 gtodd venture capitalists ;-)
15:45 isBEKaml and VMs? Venture Men? :-)
15:46 gtodd heh
15:46 gtodd hmm here are my parrot build errors  when using --gen-parrot  ....
15:47 gtodd usr/local/bin/perldoc -ud packfile-c.pod ../src/packfile/api.c
15:47 gtodd No documentation found for "/usr/local/bin/perldoc".
15:47 gtodd No documentation found for "-ud".
15:47 gtodd No documentation found for "packfile-c.pod".
15:47 gtodd then it pops into a manual page and stops the build (?) if
15:47 gtodd I quit out of there it gives me another error:
15:47 [Coke] are you building as root?
15:48 pmichaud 15:47 <gtodd> No documentation found for "/usr/local/bin/perldoc".
15:48 pmichaud That's weird.  That looks like perldoc is trying to compile itself.
15:48 gtodd yeah
15:48 gtodd [Coke]: I haven't had to do that in the past
15:49 gtodd the second error is:
15:49 [Coke] gtodd: you shouldn't build as root, no.
15:49 gtodd /usr/local/bin/perl5.16.2 -MExtUtils::Command -e chmod 0644 ops/bit.pod
15:49 gtodd Cannot chmod 0644 ops/bit.pod:No such file or directory at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.16.2/ExtUtils/Command.pm line 274.
15:49 gtodd gmake[1]: *** [ops/bit.pod] Error 2
15:49 gtodd gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/home/gtodd/development/rak​udo-release/rakudo/parrot/docs'
15:49 gtodd gmake: *** [docs.dummy] Error 2
15:49 gtodd Command failed (status 512): gmake install-dev
15:49 [Coke] (but that has been the source of weird perldoc errors in parrot build in the past.)
15:49 gtodd [Coke]: ahh ok
15:49 gtodd will try
15:49 [Coke] no, DON'T Build as root.
15:50 gtodd I can fix it with a lot of manual cd ; make ; and other dancing
15:50 [Coke] building as root has been a problem in the past.
15:50 [Coke] gtodd: are you passing in an options to rakudo's Configure?
15:50 gtodd oh ok I was only going to test if it worked :-)
15:50 [Coke] *any
15:50 [Coke] I have to run, but if you are having trouble building parrot, you might want to ping #parrot on irc.perl.org
15:50 gtodd perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp --gen-parrot
15:51 [Coke] (which is filled with many sixers)
15:51 gtodd ooops yeah duh :-)
15:51 gtodd I forgot parrot is a separate thing :-)
15:52 PerlJam Are both "--gen-parrot" and "--gen-nqp" needed?  Or does one imply the other?
15:52 pmichaud --gen-parrot implies --gen-nqp
15:53 pmichaud (if you build a new parrot, you need a new nqp also.)
15:53 kresike bye folks
15:53 isBEKaml bye, kresike
15:54 isBEKaml .tell kresike thanks for all the "happy"s. :-)
15:54 yoleaux isBEKaml: I'll pass your message to kresike.
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16:15 isBEKaml .u bucket
16:15 yoleaux No characters found
16:16 isBEKaml .u hat
16:16 yoleaux U+05B1 HEBREW POINT HATAF SEGOL [Mn] (◌ֱ)
16:16 BigBear I am now out of here and go and watch G I Joe Retaliation in 3D - should be fun night #perl6
16:16 yoleaux U+05B2 HEBREW POINT HATAF PATAH [Mn] (◌ֲ)
16:16 yoleaux U+05B3 HEBREW POINT HATAF QAMATS [Mn] (◌ֳ)
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16:17 BigBear tadzik: no problem I understand. I am sorted for now. If you need me to do anything , further tests and such like let me know here , I will come back and read the daily logs and see if there is anything else. Happy studying.
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16:49 gtodd .u é
16:49 yoleaux U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [Ll] (é)
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17:11 [Coke] masak:  -> (12:07) From Kazrak, to random:
17:11 [Coke] - "The two top sources of error in software are concu and buffer overflow%^$#@@
17:11 [Coke] - ~rrency. And off-by-one errors.
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17:13 huf :D
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17:35 timotimo i'll do the STAT const LHF for rakudo now.
17:50 timotimo hm, i may have started this on the wrong end
18:01 dalek nqp: 445f1ac | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
18:01 dalek nqp: add STAT_* constants to nqp::const::
18:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/445f1ac59c
18:01 timotimo spectesting my rakudo changes right now
18:07 PerlJam masak: have you heard of hackfoldr.org or its ilk?  Might prove useful for the workshop (or a distributed hackathon)
18:10 timotimo i have no idea what this hackfoldr thing is, it looks like a jumbled mess of different things
18:24 timotimo great, my changes all pass
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18:28 johnjohn101 so i heard perl 6 will be out on jvm this summer. is this correct?
18:28 timotimo hopefully
18:28 timotimo that effort is currently underway
18:30 lue hello world o/
18:30 gtodd ok now I want to write a test to make sure my terminals/fonts/localesettings work :)
18:30 gtodd how can I get perl6 to  give me the codepoint from character name?  like the reverse of:       say "\c[LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE]"
18:30 gtodd or maybe print the character é  ?
18:31 gtodd the code point and the name
18:31 gtodd wait .. I want a script that does what .u does
18:32 gtodd in the channel ... except I just run it with utf8_sample.txt  or big unicode text file and look at the output to see if my terminal/local/font/Xresources etc. are working
18:33 timotimo r: say "\c[FULL BLOCK]".ords
18:33 p6eval rakudo 39cf71: OUTPUT«9608␤»
18:33 timotimo r: say "\u9608"
18:33 p6eval rakudo 39cf71: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0m�Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\u'�at /tmp/JDFQsFcMFw:1�------> [32msay "\[33m�[31mu9608"[0m�    expecting any of:�        argument list�        prefix or term�        prefix or meta-prefix�        double quotes�»…
18:33 timotimo er, whoops
18:33 timotimo r: say "\c9608"
18:33 p6eval rakudo 39cf71: OUTPUT«█␤»
18:33 timotimo there you go
18:33 gtodd because now I'm finding lots of undisplayable characters showing up in the REPL ... (which must be due to something I've done here sigh)
18:34 gtodd timotimo: oh hah thanks .. I'm going to have make a test I can run on login or something
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: c1c25dd | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: use the new NQP STAT constants
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c1c25ddd93
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 4dc8590 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: bump NQP version to get new STAT_ consts
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4dc8590fb2
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 17f5e59 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #120 from timo/use_nqp_const_stat
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Use nqp::const::stat_...
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/17f5e59290
18:38 timotimo thanks :)
18:39 jnthn Thank you :)
18:40 jnthn pir:: in setting now down to 163 hits
18:40 timotimo neat.
18:40 [Coke] jnthn++
18:40 [Coke] etal.++
18:40 timotimo i'm not familiar enough with the codegen to implement flip, though :|
18:41 jnthn timotimo: oh, I can probably point you at an example that may help
18:41 gtodd timotimo: it's like important like to put .ords *after* the "" :-\
18:41 gtodd sigh
18:41 jnthn timotimo: look up getcodecuid as an example
18:42 gtodd perl makes one suitably ambitious and suitably humble ...
18:42 lue I added some ideas on the actions side of slangs at the bottom of this, if you care: https://gist.github.com/lue/5241230
18:42 timotimo i'll have a look, thanks
18:42 gtodd hmm k good thanks
18:42 timotimo r: say .ords for "foo"; # gtodd
18:42 p6eval rakudo 39cf71: OUTPUT«102 111 111␤»
18:42 timotimo ;)
18:42 gtodd arg
18:43 jnthn timotimo: oh, but it may be a bit trickier as it'll want a Parrot string constructing
18:43 jnthn hmm
18:45 gtodd say .unicodecharactername for "these are so easy to remember";
18:45 timotimo jnthn: i would have to create a QAST::VM node for that?
18:47 jnthn timotimo: You could do it that way, yeah
18:47 timotimo that looks like i'd have to write PIR, though, which i am not capable of
18:48 timotimo i assume i'd have to generate code to call nqp::some_unboxing_op, then pir::flip on that resulting parrot string (i hope) and then nqp::perl6ify on the parrot string again and use that?
18:48 jnthn Desugar to something like: QAST::VM.new( :pirop('set__SP'), QAST::Op.new( :op('callmethod'), :name('reverse'), QAST::VM.new( :pirop('box__PS'), $op[0] ) ) )
18:49 timotimo uh, set__SP has only one parameter?
18:49 timotimo well, since box__PS does, too, i guess that's correct
18:50 johnjohn101 left #perl6
18:50 diakopter right, the output parameter is implied
18:50 jnthn Yes
18:50 timotimo but calling box on $op[0] - wouldn't that ... box it again?
18:50 jnthn The first character is the output type
18:50 timotimo ah, so it turns a Pointer into a String, more or less
18:50 jnthn Yes, we use box (the Parrot op) to box it to a Parrot String
18:50 jnthn from a string register
18:51 timotimo why don't i have to unbox it from a perl6 string into a string register manually?
18:52 jnthn In CORE.setting you'll want something like nqp::p6box_s(nqp::flip(nqp::unbox_s(self.Str)))
18:52 timotimo ah, ok
18:52 jnthn You leave those bits to be done in Perl 6, and from the QAST level expose an op that takes a str and produces a str
18:57 timotimo > nqp::say(nqp::flip("foo"))
18:57 timotimo oof
18:58 timotimo do i put some tests in the nqp testsuite for this?
18:58 jnthn please
18:58 jnthn 59-nqpop.t is suitable
18:59 timotimo will do
19:02 dalek nqp: e92eff1 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | / (2 files):
19:02 dalek nqp: add nqp::flip op with a simple test for 59-nqpops
19:02 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e92eff1da5
19:03 timotimo i guess i'll hunt pir::reverse usages in rakudo now
19:04 jnthn I think there's only one in Cool.flip
19:04 timotimo found it, thanks!
19:05 timotimo compiling and spectesting now
19:05 berekuk joined #perl6
19:12 timotimo t/spec/S32-str/flip.rakudo ................................ ok
19:13 timotimo i guess i'll push & pullrq
19:13 snearch joined #perl6
19:14 jnthn timotimo: Hm, I guess that means you did All The Things I Suggested ;)
19:15 timotimo it seems so!
19:15 timotimo it's almost as if you did all the work!
19:15 jnthn I have more suggestions, if you're not bored yet ;)
19:16 jnthn IO.pm is a treasure trove of similarly straightforward things.
19:16 jnthn pir::new__PS('OS').unlink($path); for example
19:16 jnthn Which could really be Ps...
19:17 jnthn QAST::Op.new( :op('callmethod'), :name('unlink'), QAST::VM.new( :pirop('new__Ps'), QAST::SVal.new( :value('OS') ) ), $op[0] ) ) # or so
19:18 jnthn There's a range of similar; rmdir, mkdir, chdir, rename, copy (second ones take two operands but same principle)
19:18 timotimo i guess i can try that
19:19 jnthn timotimo++
19:19 timotimo how many days will jakudo be finished earlier due to my hard work^W^Wpestering you for the solution instead of thinking for myself?
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: 33d2614 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | / (2 files):
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: new NQP, use nqp::flip op in Cool.flip.
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/33d2614736
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: 1ee3b4c | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #121 from timo/nqp_flip_op
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: new NQP, use nqp::flip op in Cool.flip.
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1ee3b4c757
19:20 GlitchMr joined #perl6
19:21 jnthn Depends how many pir:: you can kill. ;-) Generally, though, any of these bits I can offload the coding/testing of help in so far as they free me up to do other bits :)
19:21 timotimo jnthn: is there a replacement for pir::perl6_current_args_rpa__P(); already? (as used in sub note/say/print/gist(|))
19:22 dalek nqp: 788df18 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
19:22 dalek nqp: Add an nqp::getlexcaller.
19:22 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/788df18f44
19:22 jnthn timotimo: No; I'm still pondering exactly how to handle that one.
19:22 timotimo 'k
19:23 dalek rakudo/nom: 400fb2c | jnthn++ | / (8 files):
19:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Use nqp::getlexcaller op.
19:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/400fb2c772
19:23 jnthn Search "pir::" (151 hits in 25 files) # progress :)
19:26 timotimo jnthn: nqp::usecapture and such are not right for that?
19:28 jnthn timotimo: They could in theory be used for it, but the op does a little bit more than that.
19:28 tgt joined #perl6
19:29 timotimo OK. i'll let you think about it some more then ;)
19:35 sergot feather.perl6.nl/~sergot/modules/ so... It works!
19:35 sergot \o/
19:35 timotimo oh, smokin'!
19:35 tadzik sergot: autoupdates?
19:36 tadzik sergot: and individual module pages broken, no?
19:36 tadzik for some new ones
19:37 sergot tadzik: autoupdate - yes.
19:37 sergot tadzik: oh... which one e.g.?
19:38 tadzik erm, I don't know anymore
19:38 sergot ADT?
19:38 tadzik http://feather.perl6.nl/~serg​ot/modules/module/ignore.html was 404 for me 2 minutes ago
19:38 tadzik it's ok now :)
19:38 sergot Great! :)
19:38 tadzik yeah, super-awesome
19:38 tadzik sergot++
19:39 sergot tadzik++ for help. :) thanks
19:44 timotimo sergot: any way to get the readme rendered instead of plain text?
19:46 [Coke] sergot: yay, my lame module passes all tests! ;)
19:46 tadzik Text::Markdown is green :)
19:46 tadzik so should be doable
19:47 timotimo jnthn: how do i properly test the functions like chdir, mkdir, rename, move?
19:47 jnthn timotimo: Hm...good question. I'm sure Rakudo's tests must do it.
19:47 jnthn timotimo: I'd look there for inspiration
19:47 timotimo oh, so i'll have to copy them :|
19:48 jnthn That or we just let the Rakudo tests cover it :)
19:48 jnthn The lazy option. :)
19:48 timotimo i'm lazy for now. we could make it a LHF for other people :D
19:48 jnthn ;)
19:49 tadzik sergot: will you blog about it?
19:49 tadzik also, I see no reason why we wouldn't now eat our own dogfood and generate modules.perl6.org with Perl 6
19:49 tadzik not only it works, but is more awesome than the existing one
19:49 tadzik moritz: ?
19:51 sergot tadzik: should I?
19:51 tadzik sergot: I think so
19:51 sergot So, it'll be done.
19:51 [Coke] tadzik: +1 here.
19:51 tadzik "look, we are self-sustaining"
19:51 * masak things so too
19:51 masak thinks*
19:51 tadzik http://i.imgur.com/TvYipWU.gif -- the current state of Panda development
19:51 [Coke] owww.
19:52 masak awww, good thing they're so soft!
19:52 dalek nqp: b208fc2 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
19:52 dalek nqp: add a few nqp ops for IO.pm
19:52 dalek nqp:
19:52 dalek nqp: chmod, unlink, rmdir, cwd, chdir, mkdir, rename, copy.
19:52 dalek nqp:
19:52 dalek nqp: they will be tested by the rakudo testsuite later, but adding
19:52 dalek nqp: tests to nqpops.t would be neat, too.
19:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b208fc2899
19:53 * [Coke] attempts to rebuild his installed rakudo since it seems to have gone haywire at some point. :|
19:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 9642243 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (5 files):
19:53 sergot timotimo: what did you mean?
19:53 dalek rakudo/nom: Some more pir:: => nqp:: in the MOP/BOOTSTRAP.
19:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9642243874
19:53 [Coke] (haywire== getting huge backtraces when running "./perl6"; I think all I did sixwise was build rakudo with a different install path in another folder)
19:54 timotimo sergot: on the individual info page of my ADT module it's just <pre>, but my readme is actually a .md file, so it could be rendered instead
19:54 timotimo huh, suddenly lots of changes
19:55 flussence aw crap, text-tabs-wrap failed? I *really* didn't want to have to touch that giant tangled ball of meat hooks again...
19:55 jnthn timotimo: One other easy one I just spotted is adding a simple mapping for nqp::settypecheckmode to stable_set_type_check_mode, sig 0PI. Can use add_core_pirop_mapping at end of object ops section. Then there's a couple of places it's used in src/Perl6/Metamodel/ :)
19:55 flussence .oO( OTOH, maybe it's been long enough I can finally get rid of all the hacks in that code... )
19:55 sergot timotimo: oh, right! I was thinking about it. Will do this. thanks timotimo++
19:55 timotimo sure
19:55 tadzik flussence: I have the same feelings about a couple of my modules :)
19:55 timotimo very cool to have, great work!
19:55 flussence ow, that was a *lot* of lag.
19:56 raiph for when we replace diakopter with a conventional fuzzer: http://blog.regehr.org/archives/925
19:56 raiph (about making fuzzing results much more useful)
19:57 raiph (focused on fuzzing of compilers)
19:57 flussence rn: my $line-len = 5; 'foo bar' ~~ /\N ** {0..$line-len} [\n|\s|$]/
19:57 p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2:  ( no output )
19:57 p6eval ..rakudo 17f5e5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Quantifier quantifies nothing�at /tmp/XcjzbpUezm:1�------> [32mmy $line-len = 5; 'foo bar' ~~ /\N ** [33m�[31m{0..$line-len} [\n|\s|$]/[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix or meta-infix�   …
19:57 flussence n: my $line-len = 5; say 'foo bar' ~~ /\N ** {0..$line-len} [\n|\s|$]/
19:57 p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«「foo 」␤␤»
19:59 labster joined #perl6
20:00 GlitchMr joined #perl6
20:00 * [Coke] looks forward to running rakudo through jvisualvm.
20:01 timotimo hehe
20:01 * lue wonders if having an optional logotype/logo_64x64.png for individual module pages (using 32x32 as a fallback) would be a bad thing
20:01 timotimo about to spectest my IO.pm nqpisations
20:03 zby_home_ joined #perl6
20:03 lizmat timotimo++
20:05 prammer joined #perl6
20:09 loops joined #perl6
20:09 timotimo seems like i didn't make a silly mistake so far :)
20:12 timotimo jnthn: feel free to merge dr
20:12 timotimo :)
20:12 timotimo i'm finished for today.
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 2cc823a | (Timo Paulssen)++ | / (2 files):
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: use the several new IO nqp:: ops in IO.pm
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2cc823aa6e
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 7776447 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #122 from timo/io_pm_nqp_ops
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: use the several new IO nqp:: ops in IO.pm
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/77764475c3
20:16 jnthn timotimo++ # thanks!
20:18 timotimo sure thing!
20:18 timotimo i'm just now considering writing a python dialect where the whitespace that determines block nesting is on the right side of the code rather than on the left
20:23 lizmat is there something like race { $a=1; $b=2; $c=3 } that would potentially execute the statements in parallel ?
20:23 lizmat inside the block ?
20:24 arlinius joined #perl6
20:24 flussence I guess you could something like [{$a=1},{$b=2},{$c=3}]».()
20:24 lizmat I can only find "race" and "hyper" as listop in S02
20:24 lizmat yuck  :-)
20:26 Tene timotimo: lies; you considered that about an hour ago!
20:26 lue r: my ($a,$b,$c); any({$a=1},{$b=2},{$c=3}).(); say $a,$b,$c;
20:26 p6eval rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«123␤»
20:26 jnthn I guess if async returns some kind of future/promise object then you can do it as a kind of task combinator on those.
20:26 timotimo Tene: that's true! but time is an illusion!
20:26 timotimo (lunchtime doubly so)
20:27 masak lue: bzzzt. use of junctions only for their parallelism side effect detected.
20:27 gtodd .u é
20:27 yoleaux U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [Ll] (é)
20:27 lizmat I'm more thinking in the realm of compiler hints
20:27 Tene timotimo: Very deep.
20:27 timotimo but not mine :)
20:27 lue ENOS17
20:35 lizmat rn: say $_ for hyper ^10
20:35 p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter '$dwimr' in 'hyper'␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (hyper @ 1) ␤  at /tmp/squat0vSAO line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4299 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niec…
20:35 p6eval ..rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'hyper'; none of these signatures match:␤:(\op, \a, \b, :dwim-left(:$dwim-left), :dwim-right(:$dwim-right))␤:(\op, \obj)␤:(\op, Associative \h)␤:(\op, Associative \a, Associative \b, :dwim-left(:$dwim-left), :dwim-right(:$dwim-right))␤:(\op, Associative…
20:35 * lue wonders if there's anything else in Perl 6 that can be used for their non-primary purposes (like junctions purely for parallelism)
20:35 timotimo oh, that's interesting
20:35 lizmat rn: say $_ for race ^10
20:35 p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m​===[0m��Undeclared routine:�     'race' used at line 1��Unhandled exception: Check failed��  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) �  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) �  at /hom…
20:35 p6eval ..rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared routine:�    race used at line 1��»
20:37 lizmat I would think we would need better syntax for parallellism in Perl 6 than abusing junctions
20:37 masak lue: the reason you shouldn't use junctions for parallelism is that they don't guarantee it, they only allow it.
20:38 lue lizmat: naturally, but S17 is a mess right now. Junctions are the only thing I know of that can do the parallelism thing.
20:38 timotimo except they are not actually parallelised :)
20:38 timotimo not even with green threads
20:38 masak lue: no, 'hyper' does the parallelism thing, too.
20:38 lizmat I guess I need to revisit S07, after 8 years or so  :-(
20:39 lue .oO(oh yeah)
20:39 masak lue: and 'race'.
20:40 lizmat so,my understanding of "say $_ for race ^10" is that that would print 0 through 9 in a random order
20:40 lue hyper (aside from use in hyperops) and race appear to be NYI though. (I was referring to the only *working* thing, unless I really need to read all the concurrency things)
20:40 lizmat is that understanding correct, masak ?
20:40 lizmat it's all NYI, and some not even specced
20:41 masak lizmat: I'm no expect, but I haven't seen 'race' and similar modifiers in that position before.
20:41 masak lizmat: they tend to go before a statement. like 'hyper for @a {...}'
20:42 masak in a sense, they are contextualizers.
20:42 ingy timotimo: yes :)
20:42 ingy for some definition of soon
20:42 jnthn lizmat: Once Rakudo is on the JVM and we have a platform to play with all of these parallel things, we should maybe have some hackathon on it. I'd be happy to participate and provide quick prototyping of ideas.
20:43 lizmat sounds like a plan!
20:43 lue for those who know better than I: is S17 just in need of a reformatting/rearranging of content, or does its content need serious changes?
20:45 timotimo ingy: all right. i'll not try to bash my head against it then :)
20:45 moritz \o
20:46 lue hello moritz o/
20:46 jnthn o/ moritz
20:46 masak moritz! \o/
20:46 lizmat lue: I think that in general people shouldn't have to program in threads
20:47 lizmat it is simply too difficult
20:47 jnthn Aye. Threads are part of the assembly language of parallel/concurrent programming.
20:47 * ingy just bought some cool new threads
20:47 lizmat so I'm looking for other paradigms for using multi-core CPU's transparently
20:47 jnthn Most of the time we want to use higher level tools :)
20:48 lue It'd still be useful to provide lower-level threads though.
20:49 lizmat I'm not 100% sure
20:49 lizmat :-)
20:49 lizmat about providing lower level threads at a higher level
20:49 jnthn We may wish to purely out of wishing to write the higher level pieces in a HLL :)
20:49 * lue just thought of a high-level meanwhile statemnt, of questionable usefulness: sub foo { my $a = 0; meanwhile { $a++ }; while $a < 10 { say $a } }
20:50 lizmat jnthn: ;-)
20:51 masak 'night, #perl6
20:51 lizmat finishing up at the Niederrhein PM meeting
20:51 lizmat night masak!
20:51 moritz re modules.perl6.org generated by Perl 6 code: I'm all for it, but the generation can't be done on the host that is serving the pages
20:51 jnthn ...where?
20:52 lue g'♞ masak o/
20:52 moritz because it has too little memory to build rakudo
20:52 moritz so the files need to be rsync'ed over
20:53 jnthn Oh...area near the Rhein... I guess...
20:53 moritz yes
21:00 [Coke] moritz: too little to /build/ or /run/ rakudo?
21:01 [Coke] r: PRE
21:01 p6eval rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared name:�    PRE used at line 1��»
21:01 [Coke] r: PRE ;
21:01 p6eval rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling block  (source text: "PRE ;"): Error while compiling op call: Error while compiling block : Error while compiling block  (source text: " "): Error while compiling op unless: Can only use get_how on a SixModelObject␤»
21:01 [Coke] masak: ^^ ?
21:09 dmol joined #perl6
21:11 dalek v5: 7efe338 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl6/P5 (2 files):
21:11 dalek v5: support: (loop) BLOCK continue BLOCK
21:11 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/7efe3383cc
21:12 dalek v5: 934d143 | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/spectest.data:
21:12 dalek v5: we pass cmd/switch.t now; added comments about other test files
21:12 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/934d1430b7
21:13 cogno joined #perl6
21:14 Chillance joined #perl6
21:14 dalek v5: 7626362 | (Tobias Leich)++ | TODO_compound_statements.md:
21:14 dalek v5: remove todos, add hints about labels
21:14 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/7626362e60
21:15 cogno Hi from the maldoror
21:15 FROGGS hi cogno
21:16 FROGGS r: PRE;
21:16 p6eval rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![​31m===[0m�Undeclared name:�    PRE used at line 1��»
21:16 FROGGS r: PRE ;
21:16 p6eval rakudo 964224: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling block  (source text: "PRE ;"): Error while compiling op call: Error while compiling block : Error while compiling block  (source text: " "): Error while compiling op unless: Can only use get_how on a SixModelObject␤»
21:16 FROGGS hmmm
21:17 cogno Is there an equivalent
21:17 cogno Oops
21:18 LlamaRider joined #perl6
21:19 cogno is there a perl6 equvalent of the perl5 filetest -X with the caching of the stat result
21:19 LlamaRider FROGGS: How can I help in the v5 effort? I just forked and will have time over the weekend for a first in depth look.
21:19 FROGGS r: say 'filename'.IO.x # dunno about caching
21:19 p6eval rakudo 777644: OUTPUT«False␤»
21:20 FROGGS cogno: that was for you --^
21:21 FROGGS LlamaRider: well, grab a failing test files (one that is commented out in spectest.data) and try to implement the missing pieces
21:21 FROGGS LlamaRider: one of the most important things are typeglobs, and stuff like opne(), close()
21:21 LlamaRider FROGGS: Sounds like a plan :)
21:22 FROGGS :o)
21:22 FROGGS cool
21:22 cogno Thx, too  bad, my question was about caching
21:22 [Coke] cogno: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S3​2/IO.html#IO%3A%3AFileTests - no mention about caching.
21:24 * [Coke] notes that there is some mojibake just above the TITLE in http://perlcabal.org/syn/S3​2/IO.html#IO%3A%3AFileTests
21:24 [Coke] er, http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/IO.html puts you much closer to the title.
21:24 FROGGS r: PRE say 1 if 2;
21:24 p6eval rakudo 777644: OUTPUT«1␤»
21:24 [Coke] cogno: are you trying to satisfy a current coding requirement, or just curious about the spec?
21:27 FROGGS [Coke]: I might have a fix for the 'PRE ;' problem
21:27 FROGGS std: PRE ;
21:28 p6eval std 86b102f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
21:29 jnthn 'night, #perl6
21:30 FROGGS night jnthn
21:31 LlamaRider left #perl6
21:33 timotimo here's a tricky one for flattening and such
21:34 timotimo i have a sparse 2dim array, so something like [Any, Any, Any, [Any, Any, Any, True], Any, [True]] or something
21:34 timotimo now i'd like to extend it a bit.
21:34 timotimo so i tried this: @map = [], (map { if $_.defined { Any, $_ } else { $_ } }, @map);
21:34 grondilu joined #perl6
21:35 timotimo but that seems to be very strange, and i suspect it does some kind of flattening that i don't expect
21:35 timotimo advice?
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22:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 460c2ad | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
22:16 dalek rakudo/nom: add exception for token blorst
22:16 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:16 dalek rakudo/nom: This will make "PRE ;" not die with a dubious error message.
22:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/460c2adb1a
22:28 dalek v5: 4787eea | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl6/P5Actions.pm:
22:28 dalek v5: pull latest changes from rakudo
22:28 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/4787eea8f7
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