Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-05-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:39 grondilu rn:  sub postfix:<X²>(@a) { @a X @a }; say <foo bar> X²
01:39 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Bogus statementâ�¤at /tmp/TfncIzgyN4:1â�¤------> [32mix:<X²>(@a) { @a X @a }; say <foo bar> X[33mâ��[31m²[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix o…
01:39 camelia ..niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Bogus term at /tmp/bIx_A8yZzC line 1:�------> [32mix:<X²>(@a) { @a X @a }; say <foo bar> X[33m�[31m²[0m��Parse failed��»
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01:39 TimToady you can't put a space before a postfix like that
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01:40 grondilu rn:  sub postfix:<²>(@a) { @a X @a }; say <foo bar>²
01:40 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«foo foo foo bar bar foo bar bar␤»
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01:53 grondilu How could I do bitwise logic on large integers?
01:54 TimToady nr: say 10000000000000000000000000000000000 +& 71829437891278430918723094178094321
01:54 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«9187987915445857789946607089745920␤»
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01:55 grondilu r: say "10000000000000000000000000000000000".chars
01:55 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«35␤»
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01:55 grondilu r: say log 10000000000000000000000000000000000 / log 2
01:55 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«78.6544060823792␤»
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01:56 TimToady say ((2**100) +& (2**50)).fmt('%x')
01:56 TimToady nr: say ((2**100) +& (2**50)).fmt('%x')
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01:57 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«0␤»
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01:57 colomon TimToady++
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01:57 TimToady nr: say ((2**100) +| (2**50)).fmt('%x')
01:57 camelia niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«10000000000004000000000000␤»
01:57 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«0␤»
01:57 TimToady r: say (2**100).WHAT
01:57 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
01:57 TimToady rakudobug, I guess
01:57 colomon oooo, rakudobug!
01:57 colomon where's masak when you need him?
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01:59 TimToady r: say 0x100000000000000000000000000000000 +| 0x7777777777777777777777
01:59 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«340282366921082889801291235130506442615␤»
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01:59 TimToady r: printf "%x", 0x100000000000000000000000000000000 +| 0x7777777777777777777777
01:59 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«77777777»
02:00 TimToady r: (0x100000000000000000000000000000000 +| 0x7777777777777777777777).base(16)
02:00 camelia rakudo bfd850:  ( no output )
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02:00 TimToady r: (0x100000000000000000000000000000000 +| 0x7777777777777777777777).base(16).say
02:00 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«100000000007777777777777777777777␤»
02:00 TimToady bug is in printf, I guess
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02:01 TimToady grondilu: is that good enough for you?
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02:03 TimToady bad net weather tonight...
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02:04 * TimToady wonders if this is just the typical upswing in cyberattacks at the start of a weekend...
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02:23 colomon TimToady: any thoughts on what, say, Set.Str should return?
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02:37 TimToady r: say Set.Str
02:37 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Set in string context  in block  at /tmp/Kd4oLASDtH:1␤␤␤»
02:37 TimToady that looks right to me
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02:38 TimToady or are you asking about Set:D ?
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02:39 TimToady I suspect it should be the same as $set.keys.Str in that case
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02:44 colomon no, Set:U
02:44 colomon so returning the empty string with a warning is okay?
02:44 colomon the bits I found in the spec on this were very vague
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02:46 TimToady that's how all type objects are supposed to behave
02:48 colomon works for me, I just wanted "official" confirmation.
02:48 colomon rn: say Int.Str
02:48 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Int in string context  in block  at /tmp/MHSgfk353t:1␤␤␤»
02:48 camelia ..niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
02:49 TimToady rn: say Str + 42
02:49 camelia niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«42␤»
02:49 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Str in numeric context  in block  at /tmp/PZnP1j7pFM:1␤␤42␤»
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02:50 colomon rn: say Str
02:50 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
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02:50 colomon rn: my $a; say $a
02:50 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
02:50 TimToady that .gist, not .Str
02:50 colomon TimToady: yes, I know
02:51 colomon just trying to get an uninitialized variable warning.  in practice, it seems like Niecza is hitting me with them all the time...
02:52 colomon rn: my $a; say "$a"
02:52 camelia niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1355 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/tWVlH019n6 line 1 (mainline @ …
02:52 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/T94yzYeA7E:1␤␤␤»
02:52 colomon ah....
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02:54 TimToady rehearsal &
02:55 colomon o/
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03:07 colomon n: say Int.Str
03:07 camelia niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
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03:12 dalek niecza: fa3b5ca | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
03:12 dalek niecza: Fix Set, KeySet, Bag, and KeyBag .Str methods.
03:12 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fa3b5ca3f0
03:25 snoopy rakudo say [^] (2..10)
03:26 colomon snoopy: too big...
03:26 colomon r: say [^] (2..10)
03:26 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«one(2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)␤»
03:27 timotimo_ hehe
03:27 colomon err, not.  was thinking [**] (2..10)
03:27 PerlPilot some memes are hard to shake
03:27 colomon hmmm.
03:27 colomon r: say one(2..10)
03:27 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«one(2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)␤»
03:29 PerlJam snoopy: where is your sopwith camel?
03:29 colomon PerlJam: my little boy has been talking about snoopy and the bunny red baron a lot recently...
03:31 PerlJam I'm not even sure my kids would even know snoopy
03:31 PerlJam They haven't seen enough Peanuts
03:34 colomon I don't think we've ever shown him anything but maybe the Christmas special.  But we've read a couple of the sopwith camel comic strips in the paper, and I guess he saw something with the red baron at Granny's.  He seems to know the song, too...
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03:50 colomon rn: say (for 1..10 { $_ if .is-prime; }).Str
03:50 camelia niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT« 2 3  5  7   ␤»
03:50 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«2 3 5 7␤»
03:50 colomon rn: say (for 1..10 { $_ if .is-prime; }).perl
03:51 camelia niecza v24-48-g1d127e4: OUTPUT«(Empty, 2, 3, Empty, 5, Empty, 7, Empty, Empty, Empty).list␤»
03:51 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«(2, 3, 5, 7).list␤»
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04:15 [Coke] .tell TimToady - can we get a ruling on https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=93978 and https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77146 so I don't have to migrate the ticketds?
04:15 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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04:26 [Coke] rakudo: class Car { has @.wheels }; say Car.^attributes.perl
04:26 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«(Attribute.new(),)␤»
04:27 [Coke] .tell masak please respond on https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=78316
04:27 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to masak.
04:27 [Coke] r: class A { ... }; class B is A { }; class A { }; say B.new
04:27 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«No such method 'new' for invocant of type 'B'␤  in block  at /tmp/TZO9Ec3Lz7:1␤␤»
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04:40 dalek perl6-bench: 6be544e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: A couple more TODO items
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/6be544ecfa
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: ce2ed23 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: Stop saying 'eager do for' now that for is eager again
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/ce2ed2347a
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: 015c246 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: Minor cleanups and comment improvements
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/015c246b49
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: 587238c | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: Add TIMINGS_DIR to existing COMPONENTS_DIR and use both more consistently throughout bench code
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/587238c989
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: db3c7c1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
04:40 dalek perl6-bench: Refactor generating command line options flags from Pairs into as-options()
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04:42 [Coke] RT-- # "Service temporarily unavailable.
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04:57 [Coke] rakudo: module Soric4::Event; macro foo is parsed( 0 ) { }
04:57 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot call 'trait_mod:<is>'; none of these signatures match:�:(Mu:U $child, Mu:U $parent)�:(Mu:U $type, :rw(:$rw)!)�:(Mu:U $type, :nativesize(:$nativesize)!)�:(Mu:U $type, :hidden(:$hidden)!)�:(Mu:U $type, *%fail)�:(Attribute:D $attr…
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06:02 TimToady yes, comparisons should return failure, not automatically thrown an exception.  a Match object should return both array and hash keys in the absence of further guidance as to which is wanted (implementations tend to store the numeric keys in the hash in any case for convenience)
06:02 yoleaux 04:15Z <[Coke]> TimToady: - can we get a ruling on https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=93978 and https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77146 so I don't have to migrate the ticketds?
06:04 sorear hi TimToady.  do you have a few to talk about yapc::na?
06:05 diakopter sorear: http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/wiki?node=Hackathons
06:05 diakopter most of the p6'ers are getting there Sat. afternoon/evening and departing Fri and some Thurs
06:07 TimToady sorear: I can talk about yapc
06:07 diakopter I don't mean to presume that's what you wanted to talk about with TimToady; just injecting potentially informative data
06:07 sorear diakopter: i see.
06:07 sorear 1. I'm trying to establish what is being done before and after that I might want to be present for / that others want me to be present for
06:08 sorear 2. I'm trying to find information about the job fair
06:08 sorear concrete information, with dates and places and stuff
06:08 diakopter I can help with 2 definitely
06:08 * TimToady can't
06:08 diakopter ERGH
06:08 sorear ERGH?
06:09 TimToady on 1, I'm not sure who's planning to work on what when, but some mighty interesting stuff is going down
06:09 diakopter the date/times for the jobfair aren't on http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/job-fair.html  *facepalm*
06:09 sorear if they were I wouldn't ask here :[
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06:10 diakopter sorear: for instance, FROGGS & lizmat & I have a start of slushy/umimplemented thingies that I hoped to at least begin trying to wrap our heads around for an eventual cut of 6.0.0 spec release: https://ethercalc.org/i982ooyabg
06:11 * TimToady has mostly be in denial about this summer, and how much traveling he has scheduled, his executive secretary having arranged all that while he was recovering from surgery...
06:11 diakopter that's probably 15-20% of eventual total count... :S
06:11 TimToady *been in
06:13 [Coke] .ask TimToady can you rule on https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=88750 also ?
06:13 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
06:13 diakopter sorear: I'm half-excited about going through S03 & S05 for that list, and half dreading it
06:13 diakopter I'm hoping others dive in
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06:14 diakopter sorear: the job fair is on Tues midday
06:14 sorear diakopter: should I stab #yapc about the job fair stuff?
06:15 diakopter it's on the "Schedule" but not the page about it
06:15 diakopter I'll fix that tonight
06:15 diakopter the companies at the job fair: the sponsors on teh left bar silver & above
06:16 sorear so, what do we need to do to be involved?
06:16 diakopter in the job fair?
06:16 sorear yes.
06:17 diakopter ah; just show up at the room. companies will have tables and displays and swag and handouts and stuff
06:17 diakopter sometimes free books, equipment
06:17 sorear I was not clear.  I am enquiring about the job fair on behalf of my current employer.
06:17 TimToady [Coke]: as far as I can see through my clouded branes, an our sub oughta be okay just about anywhere, insofar as it's just a global really.  I wouldn't necessarily expect it to instantiate $?CLASS when composed though.
06:17 yoleaux 06:13Z <[Coke]> TimToady: can you rule on https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=88750 also ?
06:17 diakopter ah
06:17 sorear We wish to recruit.
06:17 diakopter see this link:
06:18 diakopter http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/levels-of-sponsorship.html
06:18 diakopter silver & above donation gets a table at the job fair
06:19 diakopter hrm, this must've not been well advertised on the yapc@pm.org list
06:19 [Coke] TimToady++
06:19 sorear I'm not on that list
06:20 [Coke] I will attempt to integrate that into some kind of ticket resolution.
06:20 [Coke] that list hasn't see a lot of action, I don'tt hink.
06:20 diakopter sorear: however, the job fair room is kinda full now.. yet another thing that's missing info on the site - cutoff date for getting in the job fair and getting your logo on everyone's t-shirt
06:20 diakopter I'm not sure what that date is, but I'm guessing "next week"
06:20 sorear (it's possible that someone else at $employer is on the list)
06:21 TimToady this is the problem with having different people run the conference every year :)
06:21 [Coke] nom: class A { role B {} }; A::B.new; say "alive"
06:21 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«alive␤»
06:21 sorear diakopter: The web site implied that non-sponsors could get a table for $200
06:21 [Coke] nom: role A { role B {} }; A::B.new; say "alive"
06:21 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&B'␤  in method <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:10027␤  in any  at src/gen/Metamodel.nqp:2504␤  in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/Metamodel.nqp:2492␤  in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.nqp:939␤  in block  at /tmp/FGHQnny8UI:1␤␤»…
06:21 diakopter :) yet another thing I didn't know
06:22 diakopter sorear: no one's taken advantage of the $200 offer yet this year
06:23 sorear should I subscribe to the yapc list?
06:23 diakopter when you register for the conf, you're auto-subscribed, but sure
06:23 sorear oh, huh
06:23 sorear should I give up now re. job fair tables?
06:23 diakopter yet another thing that's missing from the page with the register link
06:23 TimToady [Coke]: on the other hand, I could argue that everything inside a role doesn't really exist until instantiate as a class
06:23 TimToady including another role
06:24 diakopter sorear: give up? no..
06:24 sorear if not, who should I talk to?
06:24 diakopter ah.
06:25 diakopter yes, join #yapc on magnet and ask there
06:25 diakopter I'll answer you there :P  kidding, half. toddr or apeiron or others can answer too
06:26 diakopter to send the $200, just go to http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/purchase and type 200 in the donation box
06:26 sorear you may notice I'm already on.
06:27 sorear hmm.  is it necessary to put the money in ASAP?  I would like to wait until it's a surer thing
06:28 diakopter no
06:28 diakopter they can proceed provisionally
06:36 sorear what's the arrival dinner thing about
06:36 diakopter click Blog
06:36 diakopter there's a helpful posting on it
06:37 diakopter there's usually an "official"[ly arranged] arrival dinner, and various anti-[anti-[anti-]]]arrival dinners :)
06:38 diakopter it's certainly not expected that everyone goes; it's just yet another social event [like the entire conference]
06:39 diakopter [also, it's limited to 120 people there, but it seems only 18 people are currently paid up for it]
06:40 [Coke] rakudo: class A {}; class B {}; subset C of A & B; say C ~~ A; say C ~~ B # RT#70844
06:40 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
06:41 TimToady I'm pretty sure that's parsing as (subset C of A) & B
06:42 * TimToady is a little surprised it's not giving a "Useless use of & in sink context"
06:43 diakopter tho I think TimToady's handler/booking-agent is planning on them going..
06:43 * TimToady is too stupid to figure out what his login name is...
06:43 diakopter it starts with larr and ends with arry
06:44 TimToady and then when it asks me to change the password, it asks for the old password first...
06:44 [Coke] rakudo: class A {}; class B {}; subset C of (A & B); say C ~~ A; say C ~~ B # RT#70844
06:44 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Confusedâ�¤at /tmp/XuBccnEAYS:1â�¤------> [32mclass A {}; class B {}; subset C of [33mâ��[31m(A & B); say C ~~ A; say C ~~ B # RT#708[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        horizontal whitespaceâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        â€¦
06:44 diakopter TimToady: it's a feature! security by confusion
06:45 TimToady [Coke]: note that the 'of' trait only allows a single name
06:46 TimToady you'd have to write: subset C of Any where A & B
06:46 [Coke] rakudo: class A {}; class B {}; subset C of Any where A & B; say C ~~ A; say C ~~ B # RT#70844
06:46 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
06:47 TimToady subset isn't about inheritance, except kinda by accident
06:47 diakopter TimToady: seriously though, it ignores that field; try it! :D
06:47 TimToady if you want multiple inheritance, subset isn't the way to get it
06:49 [Coke] rakudo: class A {}; class B {}; subset C of A|B; say C ~~ A; say C ~~ B # RT#70844
06:49 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
06:50 TimToady "useless use of | in sink context"
06:54 TimToady we haven't had junctional types in Perl 6 for most of the last 10 years
06:54 [Coke] ticket's from 2009
06:54 TimToady so someone was remembering the old days
06:55 TimToady junctional types were deemed to be impossible to understand, and a general public nuisance
06:55 TimToady on top of which, we stole the syntax
06:56 TimToady since signatures can contain | or & that don't mean junctions now
06:57 TimToady so I can pretty safely say that you'll never just be able to throw A&B or A|B in where were currently parse a single type
06:59 TimToady I'd just close that one as Not a Bug
07:00 [Coke] Done.
07:00 [Coke] (along with these notes)
07:00 moritz [Coke]++, TimToady++
07:00 TimToady oops, how'd it get to be tomorrow already?  I was supposed to turn into a pile of rubble an hour or so ago...
07:01 diakopter caught in a time loop for ages..
07:01 [Coke] oops. TimToady++
07:02 TimToady maybe I'm getting better...
07:04 TimToady and actually, & was always a problem as long as we could bind to a &func parameter
07:07 * TimToady --> pile of rubble &
07:12 sorear do I need to print a ticket or anything like that?
07:12 diakopter nope; you pick up your badge/lanyard on Sunday afternoon or Monday morning
07:13 diakopter just say "my name is ____" and they'll believe you
07:14 moritz just come in and say "my name is Larry Wall", and they won't believe you (unless TimToady does it :-)
07:15 diakopter actually a fake Larry Wall did register .. (oh wait, that was me)
07:15 sorear hmm.  how is ____ pronounced?
07:15 diakopter in gaelic?
07:16 * sorear wonders if he should bring a passport in case somebody in texas gets the idea to reject a calif ID card
07:16 diakopter nah
07:19 diakopter it'd be a pain to carry everywhere. every traveler everywhere knows to keep it on your person at all times; they make special pouches with straps for inside clothing even, specifically for that
07:19 diakopter just so it's not accidentally lost/stolen
07:20 diakopter [I don't mean to imply you don't know this already]
07:32 masak good morning, #perl6
07:32 yoleaux 04:27Z <[Coke]> masak: please respond on https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=78316
07:32 * masak looks
07:32 moritz good oh-it's-really-still-morning, masak :-)
07:33 masak ;)
07:33 masak (need to catch a train, so I'm up early-ish)
07:34 masak [Coke]: yes, and here's the general rule: if the ticket says "weird error" and there's no longer a weird error, the ticket is closable ;)
07:34 * masak resolves the ticket
07:36 sorear gooood moooooorning maaaaaasak!
07:39 masak *giggle* good night, Tessie.
07:40 masak (fun trivia question: from which well-known musical is that line?)
07:40 sorear i didn't think I was from anything in particular
07:41 sorear I just express my excitement by stretching vowels
07:41 sorear s/think I/knot it/
07:41 sorear s/knot/know/
07:41 masak well, it clearly reminded me of that scene, so... :)
07:42 sorear but.  I'm coming to yapc::na, and my employer may be about to take a last-minute sponsorship
07:42 sorear so I'm excited :D
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07:43 sorear haven't figured out yet whether I'm staying for either hackathon
07:43 moritz if you have the chance, do it
07:43 moritz hackathons are always great fun
07:43 masak sorear: that is exciting indeed. looking forward to meeting.
07:44 masak train &
07:49 sorear yeah, I can, pre-approved for that
08:04 diakopter sorear: tadzik will be there on Sunday but has to leave early for school exams
08:05 diakopter bed, ish&
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08:38 tadzik assuming I get this damned visa
08:39 sorear ICE--
08:40 sorear or is it CBP-- I never can remember who handles what
08:40 tadzik whoever they are, well, I'll express a more elaborate opinion _after_ they make their decision
08:41 tadzik but the idea of a legal phishing of my bank account credentials still makes me shiver
08:42 sorear our immigration policies are insane, and when people here say "reform" they mean "make it worse"
08:42 * sorear tries to refrain from ranting
08:43 tadzik well, maybe one day Poland will be considered a civilized country too, and most of the mess could be skipped
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08:45 sorear they don't even give painfree visas to UK folks
09:04 sorear how many times is the List.sink bug going to be reported?
09:06 hoelzro_ is the Perl 6 reddit active?
09:07 dmol joined #perl6
09:11 hoelzro I was thinking about Perl 6 compilers last night and wanted to share my musings =)
09:16 tadzik hoelzro: I subscribe it. It's not too active though
09:16 tadzik most news end up on #perl too anywa
09:16 hoelzro =(
09:17 hoelzro well, I would prefer more stuff going onto #perl
09:22 tadzik the perl 6 things submitted to #perl usually get upvoted as well
09:23 hoelzro so what I was wondering was this: when Perl 6 started, why didn't anyone seem to consider Perl 5 as a compilation target?
09:23 tadzik because we wanted to have good threading
09:23 tadzik I suppose
09:23 tadzik shop &
09:32 sorear hoelzro: it's been done several times
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09:42 nwc10 you won't get good threading, and your Unicode will be O(n)
09:42 nwc10 or O(n**2) for Graphemes
09:43 hoelzro hmm
09:43 hoelzro I suppose it's a suboptimal target
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10:11 dalek v5: 8d70c4c | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
10:11 dalek v5: disable token print for now and add "use base"-noop
10:11 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/8d70c4c5c2
10:12 dalek v5: 519ed8a | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
10:12 dalek v5: status update
10:12 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/519ed8adcd
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10:39 FROGGS pnr: say "runtime!"; import ENOSUCHMODULE;
10:39 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Action method statement_control:import not yet implemented at /tmp/3O1mZeqM4A line 1:�------> [32msay "runtime!"; import ENOSUCHMODULE[33m�[31m;[0m��Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method statement_level in type A…
10:39 camelia ..pugs: OUTPUT«runtime!␤*** No such subroutine: "&import"␤    at /tmp/PnHS9iRHwz line 1, column 17-37␤»
10:39 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Could not find module ENOSUCHMODULE to import symbols fromâ�¤at /tmp/2Lh45cRBvR:1â�¤------> [32msay "runtime!"; import ENOSUCHMODULE[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statement modifierâ�¤ …
10:39 FROGGS looks like import dies a bit too early
10:40 moritz import is compilr-time
10:42 jnthn What moritz said :)
10:42 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
10:45 FROGGS ahh, so `require` will do the importing?
10:45 FROGGS r: require Test:file("Test.pm")
10:45 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Could not find file 'Test.pm' for module Test␤  in any load_module at src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:123␤  in block  at /tmp/29GgEpH2d3:1␤␤»
10:46 moritz require doesn't import anything
10:46 moritz r: require Test:file("lib/Test.pm6")
10:46 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Could not find file 'lib/Test.pm6' for module Test␤  in any load_module at src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:123␤  in block  at /tmp/R3mr61vcgc:1␤␤»
10:48 FROGGS "Importing via require also installs names into the current lexical scope by default, but delays the actual binding till runtime:"
10:48 FROGGS r: require Test:file("Test.pm6")
10:48 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Could not find file 'Test.pm6' for module Test␤  in any load_module at src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:123␤  in block  at /tmp/2PnpCz2gAW:1␤␤»
10:48 FROGGS meh
10:49 jnthn You have to declare those symbols as part of the require, iirc.
10:49 FROGGS yeah, like require "/home/non/Sense.pm" <common @horse>;
10:51 FROGGS hmmm, maybe more like:  require Test::file('Test.pm6') <&plan>;  or so
11:06 FROGGS nr: BEGIN "test".say
11:06 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to Mu.say, used 1 of 2 positionals␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1735 (List.gist @ 5) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/glRrfVcr6N line 1 (ANON @ 2) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloo…
11:06 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«test␤»
11:06 FROGGS nr: BEGIN "test".slurp
11:06 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method slurp in type Str␤  at /tmp/cNZ_PFrBb0 line 1 (ANON @ 2) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaBackendDotnet.pm6 line 75 (downcall @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecz…
11:06 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'slurp' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
11:06 FROGGS nr: BEGIN "test".^methods.say
11:06 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method methods in type ClassHOW␤  at /tmp/AtI0kYuVgs line 1 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaBackendDotnet.pm6 line 75 (downcall @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/sr…
11:06 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«BUILD Int Num chomp chop substr pred succ match ords lines samecase samespace trim-leading trim-trailing trim words encode capitalize wordcase trans indent codes tclc path WHICH Bool Str DUMP ACCEPTS Numeric gist perl comb subst split␤»
11:07 FROGGS nr: "test".^methods.say
11:07 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method methods in type ClassHOW␤  at /tmp/ueayeq4xHu line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4327 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4328 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at…
11:07 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«BUILD Int Num chomp chop substr pred succ match ords lines samecase samespace trim-leading trim-trailing trim words encode capitalize wordcase trans indent codes tclc path WHICH Bool Str DUMP ACCEPTS Numeric gist perl comb subst split␤»
11:10 FROGGS hmmm, so it would be sane to delay the check for subs until runtime... however this could work
11:10 FROGGS (for v5)
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11:45 moritz FROGGS: yes, in p5 subroutine lookup must be delayed (unless it can be found at compile time)
11:49 FROGGS so I basically have to move these checks from Grammar to an QAST::Op.new( :op('call'), :name('CHECK_ROUTINE') ) or something like that
11:50 FROGGS and this one will croak if &routine is not found in $*PACKAGE.HOW
11:50 FROGGS hmmm, doesn't sound impossible
11:54 moritz well, there's another slight gotcha
11:55 moritz perl 5 only has our-scoped subs
11:55 FROGGS well, that is good actually, no?
11:55 moritz so maybe the most intuitive approach is to look for a lexical &yoursub first, in case it was provided by an outer Perl 6 scope
11:56 FROGGS hmmm, true
11:56 moritz and if that's the case, you emit a normal QAST::Op.new(:call, QAST::Var.new( :name<&yoursub>, :scope<lexical> )
11:56 FROGGS right
11:57 FROGGS same like variables
11:57 moritz and if not , instead of the inner QAST::Var, you have a function that looks up the function in the symbol table at run time, and dies if it fails
11:58 FROGGS right, sounds good to me
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12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 8bb6406 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Delegation to .^type_check method.
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8bb64064b0
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: f6f5788 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/SerializationReader.java:
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Don't create empty type caches on deserialization.
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support:
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: It confuses the .^type_check fallback.
12:37 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f6f57887dd
12:37 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: b087a8a | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
12:37 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Missing null checks.
12:37 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b087a8a7ba
12:37 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: e1a3422 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/Perl6/Ops.nqp:
12:37 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Be sure we multi-dispatch on flattened args.
12:37 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e1a3422857
12:41 colomon \o/
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13:30 grondilu tadzik: isn't there a command to remove(uninstall) a module?
13:30 * grondilu frgot to mention he's talking about Panda
13:35 tadzik grondilu: nope
13:36 tadzik panda can't do that yet
13:37 grondilu ok
13:37 tadzik but I want it to be able to do that :)
13:37 tadzik and GC-like ability to remove unnecessary deps too
13:37 grondilu GC?
13:37 tadzik garbage collection
13:37 grondilu k
13:38 tadzik panda knows if it has installed a module as a dependency or not
13:38 tadzik so later it'd be able to remove all dependencies which are not referenced by anything
13:38 grondilu well, even cpan doesn't provide with any command to remove a module, so I understand it's probably tough to implement
13:38 BinGOs cpanp does.
13:39 tadzik it's not that hard I think
13:39 tadzik panda just needs some packlist-like thing
13:40 BinGOs we're going to be moving away from packlists so please don't implement that broken idea.
13:40 tadzik ok :)
13:40 tadzik I was mostly looking for inspiration in linux package managers
13:41 tadzik some of them just keep one big file with mappings between module names and paths on the FS
13:42 BinGOs the main problem is that once a distribution (ie. a collection of modules) has been installed there is a disconnect between the modules and the distribution they came in.
13:42 tadzik I guess you have to decide, if you want to remove modules or distibutions
14:12 FROGGS moritz:
14:12 FROGGS r: say INDIRECT_NAME_LOOKUP( PseudoStash.new, '&say' )
14:13 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«sub say() { ... }␤»
14:13 FROGGS r: say INDIRECT_NAME_LOOKUP( PseudoStash.new, '&foo' )
14:13 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«No such symbol '&foo'␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10022␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:10920␤  in block  at /tmp/Ofw3qE4INd:1␤␤»
14:13 FROGGS \o/
14:20 spider-mario we haven’t had a * release in a while
14:20 spider-mario has 2013.04 been skipped too?
14:20 moritz there's a release candidate at http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-2013.04-rc2.tar.gz
14:22 FROGGS spider-mario: there is no release yet because there are problems with some modules
14:22 spider-mario oh.
14:22 FROGGS might be easy to fix though
14:22 spider-mario thanks for both of your answers
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14:31 colomon moritz: any interest in going further with the smoke review web page, or should I just start from where you left off?  I've got seven days of smoke results now, I'm getting eager to have a slick web page to study them!  ;)
14:31 moritz colomon: I'm caught up in other stuff at the moment (refactoring the irc logging system),  please go ahead yourself
14:33 colomon moritz: roger.  Of course, I don't know when I'll have time myself, may depend on how Henry is at entertaining himself today.
14:35 moritz sure thing
14:41 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 56c139c | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
14:41 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Better error for null method lookup.
14:41 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/56c139c32b
14:41 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: be074c1 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
14:41 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Fix mis-compile in takedispatcher.
14:41 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/be074c1d5e
14:42 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: e71d566 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/ (2 files):
14:42 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Start to fill out bindOneParam a bit.
14:42 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e71d566ae7
14:42 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: af5712b | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/ (3 files):
14:42 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Scalar binding.
14:42 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/af5712b3c1
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15:12 * [Coke] skims through an old Modula-3 book he has lying around.
15:15 rjbs stealing some more ideas for p6?
15:15 nwc10 "get it adopted as a teaching language" seems to be the best idea.
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 32a753e | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/ (2 files):
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Decontainerize on findmethod.
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support:
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Needs care to make sure indy guard clauses are aware of decont also.
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/32a753e919
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: d6f3554 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Don't blow up on failed named lexical lookup.
15:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d6f3554697
15:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 6b1c80d | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/RakudoContainerSpec.java:
15:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Scalar fetch.
15:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6b1c80de2b
15:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: eba83b5 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Ops.java:
15:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Implement nqp::p6decontrv.
15:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eba83b5811
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15:28 FROGGS omfg, doing a indirect lookup for all subs is pretty slow
15:29 jnthn FROGGS: Are you constructing the PseudoStash every time?
15:29 jnthn Hm, though that shouldn't be too bad...
15:29 jnthn Indirect lookups are pretty, well, indirect though :)
15:30 FROGGS yes, every time
15:30 FROGGS maybe it just *feels* slow right now
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: fbf5100 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Ops.java:
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Stub p6typecheckrv.
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fbf51009ad
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: d03c7cc | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Fix an nqp::join that should be join.
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d03c7cccb3
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 7ef33ff | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Bring in the next 4 files of CORE.setting.
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: First 3 just compile already, final one shows up the next thing to
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: fix.
15:32 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7ef33ff812
15:32 jnthn FROGGS: No, it probably is slow.
15:32 nwc10 jnthn: oooh, how far how through the setting?
15:32 jnthn Up to line 399.
15:33 nwc10 cool
15:33 jnthn Though with some cheating :)
15:33 nwc10 p: say 339/13000
15:33 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«0.0260769230769230769230769230769230769231␤»
15:33 FROGGS every day +100 lines *g*
15:33 moritz nah, the first lines are very slow to compile
15:33 moritz and the later will go much faster
15:33 moritz ... until you get to IO and Exception
15:33 FROGGS I know
15:34 jnthn Yeah. I mean, getting all the stuff in place so you can actually call a trait_mod and have it execute successfully is a good bit of work.
15:34 jnthn The fact we're doing that means Perl 6 multi-dispatch must be working reasonably well.
15:34 jnthn trait_mod:<is> weighs in at over 30 candidates and it's picking the right ones...
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15:42 dalek v5: 81c8181 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
15:42 dalek v5: do checks for subs at runtime, => +57 passing tests!
15:42 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/81c8181e42
15:44 TimToady npr: say 339/13000
15:44 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«0.0260769230769230769230769230769230769231␤»
15:44 camelia ..rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«0.026077␤»
15:45 TimToady so is there a use case for false precision?
16:00 [Coke] npr: say ~(339/13000)
16:00 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«0.0260769230769230769230769230769230769231␤»
16:00 camelia ..rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«0.026077␤»
16:00 [Coke] (just making sure no .gist weirdness :P)
16:02 TimToady well, it's really the .base we installed that is picking the precision there, so 2/3 of our .bases belong to us
16:05 jnthn r: sub foo(:bar($baz)) { }; foo(:bar)
16:05 camelia rakudo bfd850:  ( no output )
16:05 jnthn r: sub foo(:bar($baz)) { }; foo(:baz)
16:05 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'baz' passed␤  in sub foo at /tmp/hBaRlLTjv0:1␤  in block  at /tmp/hBaRlLTjv0:1␤␤»
16:05 TimToady (and it picks 6 as a minimum precision, just so 1/7 and such are recognizable)
16:05 TimToady r: say 1/7
16:05 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«0.142857␤»
16:05 TimToady but it picks more precision as the size of the denominator grows
16:06 TimToady say 339/130000000000
16:06 TimToady npr: say 339/130000000000
16:06 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«0.0000000026076923076923076923076923076923␤»
16:06 camelia ..rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«0.0000000026077␤»
16:07 TimToady r: say 22/7
16:07 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«3.142857␤»
16:07 TimToady r: say 22/7000000000000000
16:07 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«0.00000000000000314␤»
16:08 TimToady it could be argued that it should give a little more there
16:10 TimToady it could also be argued that it shouldn't :)
16:15 TimToady sorear: The problem is not so much people rejecting your ID card because it's Californian, but rejecting you because you're Californian.  :)
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16:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 5e2751c | jnthn++ | src/core/traits.pm:
16:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Add some missing required markers.
16:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
16:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Probably helps all trait applications to routines on whatever platform.
16:17 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5e2751c99e
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16:19 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 845307c | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
16:19 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Start to scatter some more decont calls.
16:19 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/845307c0d8
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16:25 TimToady hoelzro: the main problem with targetting Perl 5 is that the (lack of a) type system actively fights you, and if you bypass all the built-in allomorphic types to do everything in P5-ish OO, it's slow, and when you start trying to emulate laziness and sane regex, it's even slower
16:26 hoelzro I see
16:26 TimToady also, consider that STD/viv, which *does* in fact target Perl 5, turns 6320 lines of Perl 6 into 66290 lines of Perl 5...
16:26 guru joined #perl6
16:27 GlitchMr Perl 5 is already slow. Perl 6 running on Perl 5 would be even slower.
16:27 GlitchMr Even when you would compile Perl 6 code to Perl 5.
16:28 GlitchMr (but Inline::Perl6 module would be sort of fun :-))
16:28 TimToady much of the pugs effort was for targetting Perl 5 (it's even on the T-shirt), and it's one of the reasons pugs didn't go as far as we hoped
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16:29 GlitchMr Then again, Inline::Perl6 already exists.
16:29 GlitchMr It's called Inline::Pugs and Inline::Rakudo.
16:31 TimToady another data point was when we backported some p6 features such as switch into p5, and discovered they really didn't make a lot of sense without p6's type system
16:31 spider-mario maybe Inline::Perl6 could exist and be to Inline::{Pugs, Rakudo} as YAML::Any is to YAML::{XS, Tiny, etc.}
16:33 TimToady in a nutshell, P6 allows its users to be confused about its type system, but P5 allows itself to be confused about its type system
16:38 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 25157f7 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
16:38 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: nqp::rebless needs to decont its args.
16:38 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/25157f71ed
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16:39 spider-mario another problem with switch (more specifically `given`) in p5 is p5’s handling of lexical $_
16:40 spider-mario p6 makes it the parameter of the current block if it is used, which seems to work very well
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16:41 TimToady yes, the legacy scoping is also an issue throughout
16:41 TimToady moritz: though you can have lexical subs in p5, you just have to write them: my $sub = sub {...};
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 3c2aad1 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Implement nqp::p6captureouters.
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3c2aad1497
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 9382421 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Fix a few type-os.
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/93824213ca
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: a962c59 | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 3 more files we now parse/build AST for.
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Note that this doesn't mean we can actually compile them, just that
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: the parser and actions survive. Some will blow up if we could get any
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: further (blocked by mysteries for now, though) due to use pir:: and
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: so forth (which parses, but obviously wouldn't actually compile).
16:41 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a962c59fa7
16:42 TimToady and you have to call them funny :)
16:42 jnthn Make it to 1270 now, with above important caveats of course :)
16:42 cosimo joined #perl6
16:42 nwc10_ oooh, 10%
16:42 TimToady semantics, how hard could it be?
16:44 jnthn Well, it's nice that it at least parses. To get this far it has to dispatch to and run dozens of trait mods and the odd BEGIN block, so it is managing to compile those routines that it needs during the compile. :)
16:44 dbr joined #perl6
16:44 * TimToady wonders how much of the design of P6 was subconsciously driven by me having written a Java/P5 integration lo these many years ago
16:45 * jnthn wonders how many other JVM languages do BEGIN-time stuff... :)
16:45 nwc10 "lo"?
16:45 nwc10 is this a RTFM question yet? :-) I take it that NQP doesn't have BEGIN blocks. Correct?
16:46 jnthn nwc10: It does but very constrained.
16:46 jnthn nwc10: The BOOTSTRAP is actually mostly a huge BEGIN block.
16:46 nwc10 constrained that the BEGIN block isn't allowed to have side effects outside of the VM?
16:46 jnthn nwc10: It pieces together the object system using MOP calls in a BEGIN block, whacks all it did in EXPORT, and then leaves the serializer to save its work :)
16:47 jnthn nwc10: More that it has very limited visibility of the outer scopes.
16:47 TimToady darn it, someone drank all my coffee again!
16:47 jnthn NQP's BEGIN support exists for the sole purpose of letting us writing Rakudo's type system bootstrap :)
16:47 * TimToady looks around, sees no other coffee drinkers in the house...
16:48 nwc10 did the culprit commit the crime yesterday, or this morning?
16:48 nwc10 ie are you sufficiently bootstrapped to go out shopping?
16:49 nwc10 jnthn: ah right. That makes a lot of sense.
16:49 mst__ joined #perl6
16:50 kst joined #perl6
16:50 jnthn 1853...
16:50 nwc10 14%
16:51 jerome__ joined #perl6
16:51 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:53 jnthn hm, seems "does" traits don't explode it. Good.
16:54 domidumont joined #perl6
16:54 * jnthn starts making a shopping list for dinner stuff while seeing how far he can get the parser to go before a file it explodes on...
16:55 Vlavv joined #perl6
16:55 TimToady nwc10: this morning; fortunately, there's more coffee in the pot, and after that, the cupboard, and after that, the freezer :)
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17:03 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 1c87ba0 | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
17:03 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Add more files, up to the next failure.
17:03 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c87ba06b3
17:03 awwaiid joined #perl6
17:03 jnthn Found the next explosion. 2098. :)
17:04 rom1504_ joined #perl6
17:04 jnthn Shopping, curry cooking, etc...
17:04 jnthn &
17:04 grondilu nr: sub f(\a, \b) { a+b, a-b }; my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; say ($a, $b) .= &f;
17:04 betterwo1ld joined #perl6
17:04 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1295 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 3857 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p…
17:04 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    a-b used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
17:04 TimToady curry explosions, yum!
17:05 grondilu nr: sub f($a, $b) { $a+$b, $a-$b }; my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; say ($a, $b) .= &f;
17:05 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1295 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 3857 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p…
17:05 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in sub f at /tmp/zOW1s5n6Cu:1␤  in method dispatch:<.=> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1057␤  in block  at /tmp/zOW1s5n6Cu:1␤␤»
17:06 grondilu nr: sub f($a, $b) { $a+$b, $a-$b }; say (1, 2).&f;
17:06 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter '$b' in 'f'␤  at /tmp/u_yX48bRYT line 0 (f @ 1) ␤  at /tmp/u_yX48bRYT line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4327 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4328 (mo…
17:06 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in sub f at /tmp/Hjkw2ByEJn:1␤  in block  at /tmp/Hjkw2ByEJn:1␤␤»
17:06 grondilu nr: sub f(*[$a, $b]) { $a+$b, $a-$b }; say (1, 2).&f;
17:06 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«3 -1␤»
17:07 raiph joined #perl6
17:09 * TimToady wonders if it would be useful or confusing (or both) to allow a-b to parse as a - b when both a and b are declared but a-b isn't...
17:10 Pleiades` joined #perl6
17:11 geekosaur eeeeew
17:11 grondilu nr: say ((state $ )//0 + 1) xx 4
17:11 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«1 1 1 1␤»
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17:12 nwc10 I think that it would be confusing, if only because you then wouldn't be able to look at that line of code and know what it did
17:13 TimToady nr: say (state $)++ xx 4
17:13 camelia rakudo bfd850, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3␤»
17:13 TimToady grondilu: is that what you were looking for?
17:13 TimToady nwc10: but in context, it's usually quite obvious, because such programs are also full of a-1, a+b, etc
17:14 colomon TimToady: (re a-b being a - b) Just say no.
17:14 colomon rn: say (for 1..10 { $_ if .is-prime; }).perl
17:14 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«(Empty, 2, 3, Empty, 5, Empty, 7, Empty, Empty, Empty).list␤»
17:14 camelia ..rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«(2, 3, 5, 7).list␤»
17:15 colomon TimToady: is Niecza in some sense right here, or should Nil go away before it can be seen in this sort of case?
17:15 * colomon still trying to figure out how to fix niecza.
17:15 mtk joined #perl6
17:16 TimToady well, I don't think .perl should force list context, but maybe a list comprehension should do so automatically
17:17 TimToady Empty is supposed to just mean ()
17:17 TimToady basically, it's the old definition of Nil
17:17 grondilu TimToady: I just wanted to see if niecza would give the same result as rakudo
17:17 TimToady and Nil itself isn't quite de-listified yet either
17:18 TimToady nodnod
17:18 TimToady n: say (for 1..10 { .is-prime ?? $_ !! Nil }).perl
17:18 camelia niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«(2, 3, 5, 7).list␤»
17:19 TimToady I don't know what's removing Nil there
17:19 colomon Oh!  so if "if" returned Nil instead of Empty, it would work?
17:19 TimToady well, yes, that's what it used to return, but spec is now that it returns () in that case
17:20 TimToady because we want Nil to represent the most minimal kind of failure, without disappearing like () in lists
17:20 colomon ....
17:20 nwc10 TimToady: it might work if there was an option to swtich the grammar between either "a-b is a() - b()" or "a-b is a-b()", and so the other interpretation is disallowed within that lexical scope.
17:21 TimToady so that Nil can be one of the distinguished values that indicate success/failure to smartmatching
17:21 colomon TimToady: so it should return () (or maybe Empty if that's the same thing) but () / Empty should disappear and Nil shouldn't?
17:22 TimToady right, so it's a bit backwards there for some reason
17:22 colomon like niecza has the empty / nil thing backwards... yes
17:23 TimToady the problem I ran into was that the regex engine uses Nil internally to indicate "no more cursors", and it needs to be changed to use () or Empty
17:29 TimToady nwc10: I see it more as a longest-token thing, recognize a-b as a single token if it can, otherwise recognize it as 3, with the onus on the programmer to install whitespace if a-b is ambiguous (which it almost never is)
17:32 dalek roast: 6d79206 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-container/stringify.t:
17:32 dalek roast: Actually test results of type object .Str.
17:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6d79206a4d
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17:38 TimToady a-b is just one of the thorny issues with the sigilless style, of course; all the "choose your own quote" keywords get in the way as well
17:38 TimToady which RC entries mostly solve by using Unicode, but that's kind of ignoring the problem
17:38 * colomon is not fond of sigilless style
17:39 SamuraiJack__ joined #perl6
17:39 TimToady it's much better looking for math stuff, I think
17:39 PerlJam joined #perl6
17:39 bakedb joined #perl6
17:40 TimToady but simply telling the mathfolk that they can't use m or s or q as variable names is a bit antisocial, if there's some way to do the right thing for them
17:40 colomon TimToady: it's maybe a bit better looking for math stuff ... but it's also ignoring all the reasons sigils are great.
17:40 berekuk joined #perl6
17:41 TimToady so we should force that on everyone, eh?
17:41 lizmat hello #perl6!
17:41 lizmat r: sub not-so { False }; say not-so()
17:41 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:42 lizmat and we need to fix these issues with "-"as well  :-)
17:42 colomon TimToady: I'm sorely tempted to say yes.
17:44 timotimo_ r: say so();
17:44 camelia rakudo bfd850: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:44 TimToady some of this is also symptomatic of bifurcating the processing of identifiers into keyword tokens vs user-defined identifiers with different scoping rules
17:44 colomon I like more than one way to do it; but then I don't like making the parser and language more complicated to allow something I'm guessing most style guides are going to end up telling you never to use.
17:44 moritz it's a bit weird to have a sigil-ful language support sigilless style
17:44 moritz after all we have *reasons* to use sigils
17:45 moritz and then not using them after all is a bit like admitting we are/were wrong all the time :-)
17:45 TimToady it's also the reason that drives a large portion of the population away screaming in horror
17:46 TimToady I'd rather have a story that says, "Yes you can, but here are the tradeoffs: if you define \m, you can't say m//"
17:46 colomon TimToady: yes, but is letting them skip the sigils when all the texts, documentation, and standard libraries use sigils really going to make them happy?
17:46 TimToady if you define \s, you can't say s///
17:46 moritz but providing an option for sigilless style isn't going to attract that part of the population, because they know that when they read other people's code, they'll see sigils and want to run away screaming in horror again
17:47 moritz you really can't have it both ways *and* sanity
17:47 TimToady well, but that's always the case, even with sigils
17:47 TimToady most people run away screaming from most people's code most of the time anyway
17:48 colomon moritz and I mean run away screaming from the language itself
17:48 raiph there is rationale for noun/verb markers; rationale for using symbols, including as markers; but depends on coder and domain
17:49 woolfy1 joined #perl6
17:50 raiph and a coders' point on the learning curve
17:50 timotimo_ since the GPN is fast approaching (end of this month), i don't think i can actually hold a proper talk; maybe i'll come up with a lightning talk instead.
17:50 timotimo_ for instance, at the congress one of the hacker jeopardy topics was "perl operators" (including eskimo kiss, spaceship, goatse, ...) so maybe i'll point out how perl6 operators and such are a bit nicer? (due to enforced spacing sometimes and due to other things at other times?)
17:51 nwc10 moritz: it depends. It may well (a) attract enough of the the NIH crowd to be useful (b) may well be enough to get some of the doubters to try (c) might get people started who then change their mind (d) it is a marketing tickybox. And sadly those matter, even if no-one uses the feature
17:51 nwc10 but yes, it has a cost in complexity and sanity
17:51 nwc10 trade off. :-(
17:51 pmurias joined #perl6
17:52 nwc10 the NIH crowd being the ones who roll their own CGI parameter parsing etc, and copy-paste it into each new project
17:52 TimToady well, the real insanity is that we have single letter keywords that are fighting with the mathematician's need for simple variable names
17:53 TimToady if this can be dealt with sanely by invoking LTM and predeclaration, why not?
17:53 colomon like i
17:54 TimToady we already have those concepts, it would just be tweaking the application slightly when people actually declare \m thingies
17:54 nwc10 TimToady: oh, you're specifically meaning one character variables when you're talking about a-b
17:54 nwc10 not the general case of longer variables?
17:54 TimToady can argue it both ways, but I'd prefer not to make an exception
17:54 nwc10 or I'm missing the point that the crunch will likely be on the single letters?
17:54 colomon what about the case of $a-b where \b has been declared?
17:54 TimToady the point is that keywords fight for namespace, and they currently fight a bit unfairly
17:55 TimToady colomon: it would only try that if $a-b wasn't declared
17:55 TimToady right now identifiers can only take an all-or-nothing approach under LTM
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17:58 TimToady under the rules I'm conjecturing, it might Just Work nearly all the time, and still catch 99% of typos
18:00 TimToady it's probably something we should just prototype and try out for a while to see if it causes difficulties
18:00 nwc10 yes, that does feel like a good way forwards
18:01 TimToady and let me be clear: my difficulty here is not actually the a-b issue, or math notation, but the fundamental extensibility of a language with a slightly insane keyword policy, which is what we have at the moment
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18:14 TimToady_ sigh, netsplits...
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18:17 dalek rakudo/nom: b1695cf | pmichaud++ | src/core/List.pm:
18:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Keep List.sink from carping on type objects.  Fixes RT #117923.
18:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b1695cf3bb
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18:34 TimToady more bad netweather today...
18:34 TimToady at least it's not my home DSL line anymore that is the problem--seems they finally found the bad connection out in the DSLAM
18:35 TimToady leastwise it's been rock solid for a week now
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18:36 nwc10 good to hear
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18:47 TimToady enologger?
18:48 TimToady well, logged that...
18:49 moritz TimToady: it's _ilbot
18:49 TimToady right
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18:51 moritz if somebody wants to contribute some CSS + JS to the IRC logs: it would be nice to have a bit of javascript that collapses multiple join/leave lines into one, with some sort of indicate that they are collopsed, and an option to uncollopse them again
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19:26 jnthn Well, that's one way to discover the appartment's smoke alarm still works...
19:27 TimToady hopefully that's one of the better ways
19:27 gfldex moritz: that would be for irclog.perlgeek.de?
19:28 moritz gfldex: correct, and sources at https://github.com/moritz/ilbot
19:28 jnthn Decided to have a crack at doing onion bahjis. The results were OK for a first attempt, but apparently the frying passed the magical smoke threshold... :)
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19:28 nwc10 jnthn: oh, they do smoke alarms in Sweden? Austria appears not to have heard of them.
19:29 jnthn nwc10: Yeah, and I never set mine off while cooking before.
19:29 * nwc10 has :-)
19:29 nwc10 usually with a frying pan
19:29 jnthn yeah...that was it :)
19:29 jnthn Hm, my appartment smells like an Indian restaurant now... :)
19:29 nwc10 is that a bug or a feature?
19:30 jnthn Well, the food that produced it was certainly a feature... :)
19:30 TimToady being anti-smoke is too left-wing for places like Austria :)
19:31 moritz ... assuming you can still eat it, and don't have to phone the fire department first :-)
19:32 moritz speaking of IRC logs -- is anybody using the text view?
19:33 diakopter there's a text view?
19:33 moritz I dimly recall that I added it some time ago for somebody who's mobile phone couldn't handle the full HTML
19:33 diakopter that'd be cool for other bots/sites to parse
19:33 moritz diakopter: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/text.pl?channel=perl6;date=2013-05-11
19:33 moritz diakopter: JSON would be much cooler for that :-)
19:34 diakopter text.pl needs a charset/encoding header
19:35 moritz anyway, mobile phones have advanced quite a bit in the last years
19:35 moritz and since I'm refactoring the whole thing, I would like to remove unused features
19:35 diakopter your site still breaks on built-in safari on iphone for long pages
19:35 diakopter like, freezes & crashes safari
19:35 diakopter but iphone chrome handles it fine
19:36 moritz diakopter: submit bug report (for iphone safari) :-)
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19:36 tadzik moritz: I do sometimes
19:36 moritz ok, then I'll keep it
19:36 diakopter I'll use it now that I know about it
19:36 tadzik I'm sometimes using it on a mobile when I'm crazy about data usage
19:36 diakopter would download lots more quickly
19:37 diakopter on mobile when on slow networks
19:37 diakopter moritz: feature request (which I'm happy to do if you approve): auto-extending updates to the page with ajaxy thingies
19:38 diakopter reloading on iphone every 30 seconds or so is really annoying
19:38 moritz diakopter: you mean on the "today" page?
19:38 diakopter yup
19:39 diakopter when my ssh app isn't working or I want to be able to click links on the log on mobile, I use chrome/html
19:39 moritz diakopter: I approve (but only in the branch 'nextgen', or after that branch has landed)
19:39 diakopter and it takes 5-10s to reload usually
19:39 diakopter on long pages
19:39 moritz you'll like that branch better anyway, it offers deployment via Plack
19:40 moritz so you just says 'plackup ilbot.psgi', and have a local dev server
19:40 diakopter (note: by happy to do it, I mean in several weeks. ;)
19:41 diakopter so feel free to beat me to it if you're bored :D
19:41 moritz after the refactoring I'll tackle the transition to postgres
19:41 moritz and some other stuff
19:41 moritz so, not very likely
19:41 moritz but I'll open a TODO ticket anyway
19:42 diakopter does the outputted page on 'today' ever change except for what's added?
19:43 moritz well, summary stuff changes
19:43 moritz but that can be ignored for 'today', IMHO
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19:45 diakopter I'd simply use the webirc thing in chrome, except it doesn't create hyperlinks and such
19:45 diakopter last I checked
19:46 moritz ok, one more question
19:46 moritz currently text.pl actually produces HTML, with a <pre> tag and then text inside
19:47 moritz should it stay that way, or produce proper text/plain?
19:49 nwc10 proper text/plain would be lower bandwidth, wouldn't it, as nothing would need escaping?
19:49 nwc10 fractionally lower
19:49 moritz sure, but back in the days[tm] some mobile phone browsers then offered it for download, instead of displaying it
19:49 nwc10 aha.
19:49 moritz I'm all for text/plain myself
19:50 moritz and I don't own a mobile phone that is connected to the internez, so I don't care either way :-)
19:50 diakopter I say text/plain is fine, just test a few until you get the optimum charset/encoding header(s)
19:51 diakopter er, coordinate with others to test ;)
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20:04 moritz diakopter: you can test at http://irclog.perlgeek.de:5000/perl6/2013-05-11/text if you want :-)
20:04 raiph what do folk think of (asking for) a camelia realm on http://questhub.io ?
20:05 diakopter seems cool to me. I can link to it from camelia.org.. (for whatever that's worth.. ;()
20:07 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 2745850 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Binder.java:
20:07 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Bind self for methods.
20:07 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2745850f17
20:07 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 202a1e5 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Ops.java:
20:07 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Implement nqp::p6bindassert.
20:07 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/202a1e5d41
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20:09 diakopter moritz: seems to hang
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20:10 moritz diakopter: try again please
20:10 moritz (now plackup started in screen :-)
20:11 diakopter not marked as utf8?
20:11 diakopter (or is it?)
20:12 dagurval r: "123" ~~ /[0-9]+/;
20:12 camelia rakudo b1695c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/9Pm8AaOVZR:1�------> [32m"123" ~~ /[0[33m�[31m-9]+/;[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter [ (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/9Pm8AaOVZR:1�---…
20:13 dagurval should I use .. instead?
20:13 moritz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
20:13 moritz dagurval: '123' ~~ /<[0..9]>+/
20:13 diakopter moritz: ah, I see that now. hm, I guess those irc format codes are just like that
20:14 moritz std: /[0-9]+/
20:14 camelia std b33d8e0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Invalid regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/KUz4ihjKFs line 1:â�¤------> [32m/[0-[33mâ��[31m9]+/[0mâ�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  [0-9] appears to be an old-school character class; digits should be matched with \…
20:14 moritz huh, I thought it would recognize old-style character classes, and warn about them
20:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 12528db | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
20:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Add 10 more files to the setting build.
20:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/12528dbee5
20:14 dagurval what does < > imply?
20:14 jnthn r: /[0-9]+/
20:14 camelia rakudo b1695c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/9iX_zncds5:1�------> [32m/[0[33m�[31m-9]+/[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter [ (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/9iX_zncds5:1�------> [32m…
20:15 jnthn std: /[a-z]+/
20:15 camelia std b33d8e0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Invalid regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/3N9KVQpuoY line 1:â�¤------> [32m/[a-[33mâ��[31mz]+/[0mâ�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  [a-z] appears to be an old-school character class; please use <[a..z]> if you mean…
20:15 diakopter TimToady: re a-b, I mean, it's just like backtracking in general into tokens,... but that wouldn't work for post-declared subs..?
20:16 moritz dagurval: <[...]> is a character class
20:17 moritz dagurval: see http://perlcabal.org/syn/S05.html
20:17 dagurval moritz: ok, thanks!
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20:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 06eddc0 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
20:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Run sink test
20:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/06eddc0bd4
20:20 dalek roast: 2b4ac5a | coke++ | S04-statements/sink.t:
20:20 dalek roast: add test for RT #117923
20:20 dalek roast:
20:20 dalek roast: Fudge file for rakudo
20:20 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2b4ac5a5c2
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20:23 colomon just realized I've been talking to myself "here" for the last 90 minutes
20:24 diakopter hm, I wonder where colomon is
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20:24 moritz diakopter: prolly in the bathroom, talking to the mirror
20:24 moritz :-)
20:25 TimToady diakopter: yes, postdeclaration is potentially a problem for that
20:25 dalek v5: 3495521 | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
20:25 dalek v5: debug output was turned on on last run :o(
20:25 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/34955215f4
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20:26 diakopter TimToady: I'm trying to golf an example of an analogous thing happening with '
20:26 colomon TimToady: your problem with changing Nil was compiling NiecaActions.pm6, am I right?
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20:27 colomon moritz, diakopter: I somehow left #perl6 in my IRC client, but it still let me type out messages...
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20:28 geekosaur freenode is having DDoS issues and some nodes may still be off talking to themselves
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20:31 TimToady diakopter: we wouldn't use actual backtracking though, we'd just backparse the name to see how it breaks down into known subnames, and only backtrack if there was known to be a complete parse already
20:31 TimToady and if it's still ambiguous with a postdeclared name, then you'd have to predeclare the long name
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20:33 TimToady colomon: I don't remember the exact problem
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20:53 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 9466f56 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
20:53 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: First cut at compiling nqp::chain.
20:53 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9466f566d3
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20:57 jnthn nqp: nqp::say(nqp::substr('abc', -1))
20:57 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«c␤»
20:59 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: d31030b | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
20:59 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: -1 case of nqp::substr.
20:59 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d31030b06d
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21:02 FROGGS_ nqp: nqp::say(nqp::substr('abc', -4))
21:02 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«Cannot take substr outside string␤current instr.: '' pc 40 ((file unknown):139521819) (/tmp/t5J3bolEQQ:7)␤»
21:03 lizmat jnthn: in Grammar.nqp, rule package_def, I see a :my $*DOCEE, followed by a <.attach_docs>  subrule.  I assume that $*DOCEE is visible inside the subrule?
21:04 jnthn lizmat: Yes
21:04 lizmat sorry, token <.attach_docs>
21:04 jnthn lizmat: subrule calls are just method calls, so it's the usual $*FOO rules of dynamic scoping.
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21:05 lizmat odd thing is, everything compiles ok and even spectests ok if I remove all :my $DOCEE lines
21:05 lizmat ( I was assuming they were superfluous for a while)
21:05 jnthn Oh...hmm
21:05 jnthn Weird, I'd ahve expected pod tests to fail
21:06 lizmat ok, then I'll check in that area...
21:06 jnthn tadzik++ knows the doc stuff best and may have some idea :)
21:08 tadzik I have ideas? :)
21:08 colomon TimToady: it looks to me like the problem is Niecza compiles itself using the "boot" version.  But the boot version hasn't been updated since the last time sorear did it.  Since you added "Empty", it boot version doesn't know about it.
21:09 colomon TimToady: I don't know how to fix that, but at least I know where to look for clues now.  :)
21:09 jnthn tadzik: lizmat suspects some dead code in docs related stuff
21:09 lizmat well, maybe, I don't think so anymore
21:09 jnthn :)
21:10 lizmat just that I didn't realize that my $*foo has dynamic scope
21:10 lizmat it sort of clashes with "my" in my head
21:11 sorear good * #perl6
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21:16 jnthn o/ sorear
21:17 FROGGS__ joined #perl6
21:18 colomon oooo, sorear!
21:18 Juerd_ joined #perl6
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21:19 sorear indeed I am.
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21:27 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: d348d72 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
21:27 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Some more decont-ing.
21:27 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d348d72955
21:27 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: cc5ba85 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Ops.java:
21:27 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: nqp::p6capturelex.
21:27 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cc5ba85060
21:27 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: a633aef | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/EnumHOW.nqp:
21:27 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Don't publish Parrot v-tables on JVM in EnumHOW.
21:27 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a633aef89d
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21:34 grondilu nr: say set(<foo bar>) and set(<foo>)
21:34 camelia rakudo 06eddc, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«set(foo, bar)␤»
21:34 grondilu nr: say so set(<foo bar>)
21:34 camelia rakudo 06eddc, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:34 grondilu nr: say set(<foo bar>) && set(<foo>)
21:34 camelia rakudo 06eddc, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«set(foo)␤»
21:34 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 932d4b7 | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
21:34 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Add 6 more files to the setting build.
21:34 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/932d4b7415
21:35 grondilu nr: say so set()
21:35 camelia rakudo 06eddc, niecza v24-49-gfa3b5ca: OUTPUT«False␤»
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21:47 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 0693eea | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/P6Opaque (2 files):
21:47 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: P6opaque container attr auto-viv.
21:47 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0693eeacac
21:58 dalek v5: 4f8af7e | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (4 files):
21:58 dalek v5: adhoc-declared vars get their container
21:58 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/4f8af7e3ab
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22:01 jnthn Past the 7000 line mark.
22:01 nebuchad` joined #perl6
22:01 jnthn (With same caveats as earlier... :))
22:02 lizmat_ cool!
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22:03 lizmat_ jnthn: I'm looking at dissect_longname in Actions.nqp
22:03 lizmat_ and find that it is being called for "class" etc, but not for "use"
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22:04 lizmat_ would these not need to be handled similarly?
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22:05 jnthn lizmat_: I don't thing of them as being especially similar.
22:06 jnthn lizmat_: use parses a module_name iirc
22:06 jnthn lizmat_: It may be possible to handle it through dissect_longname, but I'm not immediately sure if it helps anything or not.
22:06 jnthn ah, it does <module_name>, but <module_name> uses <longname>. So yeah, it's do-able.
22:07 lizmat_ ok, then I'll sleep over that tonight and will bother you with some more questions tomorrow  :-)
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22:09 jnthn lizmat_: I guess it may let you write stuff like constant foo = 'bar'; use ::(foo); or so
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22:16 lizmat_ r: use Test
22:16 camelia rakudo 06eddc:  ( no output )
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: ee0463a | jnthn++ | src/core/ (2 files):
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Some pir:: -> nqp::.
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ee0463aff0
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 892f0d7 | jnthn++ | src/core/ (8 files):
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: nqp::concat_s => nqp::concat
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: They are aliases these days anyway.
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/892f0d75ab
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 52b7a40 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Ops.java:
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Implement nqp::p6var.
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/52b7a4029c
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 175286d | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Add a bunch more files to the build.
22:16 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
22:16 lizmat_ r: use Foo:name<Test>
22:16 camelia rakudo 06eddc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Foo:name<Test> in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, /…
22:17 jnthn Hmm :)
22:17 lizmat_ yes, indeed…  plenty of work to do here
22:17 lizmat_ tomrrow
22:18 lizmat_ gnight jnthn, #perl6!
22:19 jnthn 'night, lizmat_
22:22 Khisanth joined #perl6
22:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: bed4414 | coke++ | / (4 files):
22:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/bed441443c
22:33 dalek v5: f811524 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
22:33 dalek v5: added "use bytes" todo/noop
22:33 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/f81152497b
22:36 leprevost joined #perl6
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22:39 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Playfair_cipher
22:42 * lue thought for a second TimToady created a new task just to solve another one, but then checked the edit history
22:42 TimToady yeah, someone else added the task without a solution :)
22:42 itz Can't open perl script "toolsbuildnqp-jvm-rr.pl": No such file or directory
22:42 itz make: *** [blib/Perl6/BOOTSTRAP.class] Error 2
22:42 itz hmmm did I go something wrong?
22:43 itz s/go/do
22:43 araujo joined #perl6
22:43 araujo joined #perl6
22:44 jnthn itz: Can you give me a little more context?
22:44 jnthn itz: Guess you're trying to build the jvm-support branch in Rakudo?
22:44 baest joined #perl6
22:45 itz yes with nqp
22:45 itz oops
22:46 gfldex joined #perl6
22:46 itz nqp rak-jvm-support I mean
22:46 felher joined #perl6
22:46 jnthn Yeah, that's the right combo.
22:46 jnthn What platform?
22:46 itz 64bit linux
22:47 jnthn Oh...and I did something outstandlingly silly :)
22:47 ivan`` joined #perl6
22:47 jnthn *outstandingly, even
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22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: e80fa2e | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/ (2 files):
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: nqp::p6store and basic scalar store stuff.
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e80fa2e8d5
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 1556388 | jnthn++ | src/core/operators.pm:
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Another pir:: -> nqp::.
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/15563889d2
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: f3879cd | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Ops.java:
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: nqp::p6box_[sin]
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f3879cd6c3
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 379467d | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Fix slash-o; hopefully fixes build on Linux.
22:48 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
22:48 jnthn Aww
22:48 charsbar_______1 joined #perl6
22:48 jnthn The second line of that commit message read:
22:49 jnthn Reported by itz++.
22:49 jnthn :)
22:49 awwaiid_ joined #perl6
22:49 berekuk_ joined #perl6
22:49 itz :) I'll try again
22:50 _jaldhar joined #perl6
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22:50 Kelder joined #perl6
22:50 FROGGS jnthn: backslashes are evil :o)
22:50 jnthn FROGGS: Yeah...was probably just a brain-o.
22:51 krunen_ joined #perl6
22:51 FROGGS good that windows takes slashes too
22:51 crazedpsyc joined #perl6
22:52 djanatyn joined #perl6
22:52 jnthn Sometimes ;)
22:52 FROGGS why only sometimes?
22:52 jnthn ./C:\consulting\rakudo>./install-jvm/nqp
22:52 jnthn '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
22:52 jnthn operable program or batch file.
22:52 krunen joined #perl6
22:52 jnthn :)
22:52 jnthn Doesn't there, for example
22:53 FROGGS ahh, okay, yeah
22:53 breinbaas joined #perl6
22:53 FROGGS but / does always work as a path sep, cd / and friends do not work though IMO
22:54 scottp joined #perl6
22:55 jnthn I'm not sure it's a matter of opinion :P
22:55 clkao joined #perl6
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22:55 daniel-s_ joined #perl6
22:55 FROGGS '.' on unix is not a command or program either, it is just the case that cwd is not considered when executing commands, so you have to supply the path to an executable to run it
22:56 cxreg joined #perl6
22:56 FROGGS jnthn: IMO is what I'd say in german... to say that I'm not sure about something
22:57 jnthn FROGGS: ah :)
22:58 awwaiid joined #perl6
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22:59 jnthn 15:33 <FROGGS> every day +100 lines *g*
22:59 jnthn Just passed 11500 :P
23:00 p5eval_ joined #perl6
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23:00 FROGGS I've seen that but then thought it must mean something else :P
23:00 FROGGS jnthn++
23:01 FROGGS so, I can install it tomorrow?
23:01 * FROGGS guesses that jnthn is already writing the final blog post
23:02 jnthn Oh, this is just parsing it
23:02 jnthn Doesn't mean we get beyond parsing :)
23:02 FROGGS I hope that I can gain some speed too when p5's require is working
23:02 FROGGS ahh, okay
23:02 Ayiko joined #perl6
23:02 jnthn What'll happen after this is we hit all the places the setting does pir::, Q:PIR and so forth.
23:03 FROGGS sounds like not-so-fun work
23:03 jnthn Yeah.
23:03 jnthn Drawn out, I suspect
23:03 jnthn And of course, the binder needs finishing.
23:03 jnthn Thank heavens I ported the multi-dispatcher to NQP already, so that Just Works...
23:04 itz stupid question.. I have a jar and class file .. how do I call them to do "say 1+1" or whatever?
23:04 FROGGS yeah, proven by hundreds of tests
23:05 felher joined #perl6
23:05 jnthn itz: You don't yet...at least, not the Perl 6 one. I'm still working madly on getting the built-ins building (included stuff like +)
23:05 jnthn itz: install-jvm/nqp -e "say(1 + 1)" works, though
23:06 itz ok ty I'll play with nqp
23:13 FROGGS r: EXPORT_SYMBOL()
23:13 camelia rakudo 06eddc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'EXPORT_SYMBOL' will never work with no arguments (lines 1, 1)␤    Expected: :(\exp_name, @tags, Mu \sym)␤»
23:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: d42d0ea | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
23:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Uncomment all but IO bits of setting.
23:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support:
23:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Means we now manage to parse and run BEGIN/traits/constant in 12850
23:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: lines worth of the core setting.
23:14 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d42d0ea856
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23:24 raiph jnthn++ # advancing parse of core setting at a tad more than 100 lines per day...
23:25 BinGOs_ joined #perl6
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23:26 FROGGS r: class C { sub a { say 42 }; EXPORT_SYMBOL('&a', ['ALL', 'DEFAULT'], &a) };
23:26 mikemol_ joined #perl6
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23:29 flussence writing a script to munge files and I came across a really nice idiom - «sub MAIN(Str $file where /:i '.fileext'$/ & *.path.e) { ... }»
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23:41 flussence hm, should IO::Path know what '~/' is or not?
23:42 * jnthn dunno :)
23:42 jnthn 'night, #perl6
23:42 TimToady URI's support ~, so why not?
23:42 raiph 'night jnthn
23:42 geekosaur if this were not perl, I'd say it shouldn't. it being perl, it probably should
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23:55 sneilan hi, there are humans that use perl? perl is amazing & i've just discovered it after using python for years. I hope that people still use it.
23:55 sneilan python has gotten soooo boring.
23:55 TimToady no humans here, we're all subhuman :)
23:55 sneilan robots?
23:56 TimToady that would be telling
23:56 FROGGS I sometimes feel that perl is using me :o)
23:57 sneilan lol :)
23:57 btyler joined #perl6
23:57 TimToady sneilan: well, Python was kinda designed to be boring; some folks think this is a virtue :)
23:58 eternaleye joined #perl6
23:59 TimToady Perl 6 is designed to be interesting without being excessively...exciting...

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