Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-05-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:56 * [Coke] writes a code formatting checker in coldfusion, and looks forward to the day when he can do this sort of stuff with a perl6 grammar running on the jvm in eclipse.
00:58 timotimo oh my, i didn't even think about interop with IDEs and such for when rakudo is on the jvm
01:09 [Coke] Dude, I'm going to write eclipse plugins in perl6 so I can write coldfusion.
01:09 [Coke] (though Ideally I will start writing my webapps in perl6)
01:09 timotimo i think that's quite a ways off, though :(
01:10 diakopter "The document is a draft."
01:10 yoleaux 00:53Z <dpk> diakopter: ok, after some consideration, i've decided that, while the feature may well be useful, it doesn't fit well with yoleaux's general purpose and this particular task is best left to another bot, imo. thanks for the suggestion though!
01:11 timotimo what feature was that?
01:11 diakopter "adrift"?
01:11 diakopter no clue
01:11 diakopter "ajar"?
01:11 timotimo a message from years ago?
01:11 diakopter "The document is ajar"
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01:15 dpk heh, "no clue"
01:16 dpk diakopter, this one https://github.com/dpk/yoleaux/issues/8
01:19 timotimo mhm
01:20 diakopter typical pie-in-the-sky pipedreaming
01:21 diakopter er, pipe-in-the-sky piedreaming
01:21 timotimo rn: my KeyBag $a .= new; $a<Foo> = True; $a<Bar> = True; say $a<Foo>:exists; say $a<Barf>:exists;
01:21 camelia rakudo 9c5650, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
01:22 timotimo oh, yikes.
01:23 diakopter ?
01:24 timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4), $foo] }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
01:24 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2, 3, 4, KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash)])␤Nil␤»
01:24 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«[[1, 2, 3, 4, KeyBag.new({"A" => Bool::True}.hash)]].list␤Any␤»
01:24 timotimo that didn't work the way i intended it to :)
01:24 timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4); $foo] }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
01:24 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new([KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash)])␤Nil␤»
01:24 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«[[KeyBag.new({"A" => Bool::True}.hash)]].list␤Any␤»
01:25 timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4); $foo].lol }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
01:25 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new(KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash))␤Nil␤»
01:25 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Array␤  at /tmp/6ZW9z8r0qj line 1 (ret-mult @ 7) ␤  at /tmp/6ZW9z8r0qj line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
01:25 timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4), $foo].lol }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
01:25 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3, 4, KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash))␤Nil␤»
01:25 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Array␤  at /tmp/HCD4eOuQT8 line 1 (ret-mult @ 7) ␤  at /tmp/HCD4eOuQT8 line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
01:25 timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return ((1, 2, 3, 4), $foo).lol }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
01:25 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new($(1, 2, 3, 4), KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash))␤Nil␤»
01:25 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Parcel␤  at /tmp/E_GHtaRweH line 1 (ret-mult @ 7) ␤  at /tmp/E_GHtaRweH line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setti…
01:25 timotimo how do i multiple return?
01:26 diakopter rw params?
01:26 diakopter <-- very clueless today
01:27 timotimo nah, i don't like rw params terribly much
01:32 timotimo std: class A { method &.( $capture ) {...} }
01:32 camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $capture is declared but not used at /tmp/RIS_hNcjc1 line 1:â�¤------> [32mclass A { method &.( [33mâ��[31m$capture ) {...} }[0mâ�¤ok 00:00 44mâ�¤Â»
01:32 timotimo std: class A { method @.[ **@slice ] {...} }
01:32 camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @slice is declared but not used at /tmp/cSRZz7PdNq line 1:â�¤------> [32mclass A { method @.[ **[33mâ��[31m@slice ] {...} }[0mâ�¤ok 00:00 44mâ�¤Â»
01:32 timotimo wow, that's crazy concise.
01:32 timotimo or ... weird
01:32 timotimo dunno.
01:45 timotimo (the secret to properly returning the two things was to use a $ sigil on the left side, fwiw.)
01:47 timotimo clever niecza :D  -  Useless redeclaration of variable $_ (see  line 0)
01:47 timotimo std: ␤␤␤␤␤␤ my $_ = 5; say $_;
01:47 camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Useless redeclaration of variable $_ (see line 1) at /tmp/BRkCxpUrgQ line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy $_[33mâ��[31m = 5; say $_;[0mâ�¤ok 00:00 42mâ�¤Â»
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02:02 timotimo so, basically my (@foo, $bar) = some-function(); never makes sense, is that right?
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02:27 gtodd yoleaux: .u ᑲᐦᑲᑭᐤ
02:30 gtodd .u ᑲ
02:30 yoleaux U+1472 CANADIAN SYLLABICS KA [Lo] (ᑲ)
02:30 gtodd .u ᐦ
02:30 yoleaux U+1426 CANADIAN SYLLABICS FINAL DOUBLE SHORT VERTICAL STROKES [Lo] (ᐦ)
02:30 timotimo rn: my ($a, $b) = "A", "B"; for ^5 { ($a, $b) = [($a, $b), ($b, $a)].pick; say "$a, $b"; }
02:30 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1355 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/9J4Z8DAefK line 1 (mainline @ …
02:30 camelia ..rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«A, ␤, ␤, ␤, ␤, ␤»
02:31 gtodd .u ᑲ ᑭ ᐤ
02:31 yoleaux U+0020 SPACE [Zs] ( )
02:31 yoleaux U+1424 CANADIAN SYLLABICS FINAL RING [Lo] (ᐤ)
02:31 yoleaux U+146D CANADIAN SYLLABICS KI [Lo] (ᑭ)
02:31 timotimo rn: my ($a, $b) = "A", "B"; for ^5 { ($a, $b) = (($a, $b), ($b, $a)).lol.pick; say "$a, $b"; }
02:31 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Parcel␤  at /tmp/DOi_VcjvIx line 1 (mainline @ 9) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home…
02:31 camelia ..rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102411 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46279) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8905)␤called from Sub 'defined' pc 161856 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:70487) (src/gen/CORE.setting:720)␤called from Sub 'infinite' pc 2…
02:31 timotimo r: say (1, 2, 3).^methods
02:31 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Parcel Capture elems item flat list lol at_pos postcircumfix:<[ ]> STORE FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENABLE_HASH fmt of Bool Numeric Str ACCEPTS gist perl DUMP␤»
02:31 gtodd oops
02:32 gtodd msg yoleaux
02:32 timotimo (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).lol.perl.say
02:32 timotimo r: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).lol.perl.say
02:32 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«LoL.new(1, 2, 3, $(1, 2, 3))␤»
02:32 timotimo i don't get it.
02:32 timotimo rn: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).lol.perl.say
02:32 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Parcel␤  at /tmp/NZfNWFofC1 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home…
02:32 camelia ..rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«LoL.new(1, 2, 3, $(1, 2, 3))␤»
02:32 timotimo that would be it.
02:33 timotimo n: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).LoL.perl.say
02:33 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method LoL in type Parcel␤  at /tmp/gK9EE9aHO9 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home…
02:33 timotimo n: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).tree.perl.say
02:33 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method tree in type Parcel␤  at /tmp/qcz6z8oejQ line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /hom…
02:33 timotimo huh.
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03:08 timotimo http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brownian_tree#Perl_6 - finally submitted.
03:10 timotimo oh, perl 6 has already reached rank 9, behind Go by 7 entries
03:12 Timbus say "time elapsed: ", (now - BEGIN { now })
03:12 Timbus woah
03:12 Timbus woah
03:13 timotimo i thought the same thing when i saw that for the first time :D
03:13 timotimo (got it from the advent calendar i believe)
03:19 timotimo i could even have written BEGIN now instead
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03:22 TimToady timotimo++
03:23 TimToady however, we're actually in 7th place, ahead of Ruby
03:23 TimToady by 9, and behind D by 7
03:25 TimToady note that the page in question is more than a month out of date
03:25 timotimo neato :)
03:25 timotimo isn't there a report that gets updated often/automatically?
03:25 TimToady if you actually run the Perl 6 entry, you'll get the current standings
03:26 TimToady yes, there's a link to a more recent page produced by REXX
03:27 timotimo oh, neat :)
03:27 timotimo i was looking at that REXX output actually. or did i mislook?
03:27 TimToady well, that's two weeks old already
03:28 timotimo hm, shelling out to wget :\
03:28 TimToady feel free to fix :)
03:28 timotimo hm, what options are there?
03:28 TimToady though I run it under niecza...
03:29 timotimo HTTP::Easy perhaps?
03:30 timotimo perl6 popularity.p6  59.64s user 0.46s system 83% cpu 1:12.39 total - oh my.
03:34 lue .oO[ now - BEGIN now is one of those neat tricks that make you smile every time :) ]
03:41 TimToady INIT now would make more sense, unless you really want to measure the time between compilation and running
03:43 timotimo not sure which i want. for one, the complete run time is interesting for the problem, for the other, it might be more interesting to measure how long it takes once it's compiled.
03:43 timotimo do modules have ENTER and LEAVE, or do only routines have that?
03:44 timotimo r: ENTER say "foo"; LEAVE say "bar"; { ENTER say "in braces"; LEAVE say "out of braces" }; say "end of mainline";
03:44 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
03:44 timotimo r: ENTER say "foo"; LEAVE say "bar"; { ENTER say "in braces"; LEAVE say "out of braces" }(); say "end of mainline";
03:44 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
03:44 timotimo oh?
03:45 TimToady looks like a bug to me
03:45 lue r: ENTER say "foo"; LEAVE say "bar"; { ENTER say "in braces"; say "something in between"; LEAVE say "out of braces" }; say "end of mainline";
03:45 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
03:47 timotimo r: say "a"; { say "b" }; say "c";
03:47 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
03:49 lue r: ENTER print "in"; LEAVE say "out"; print " and ";
03:49 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«inout␤»
03:49 lue r: LEAVE say "out"; print " and "; ENTER say "in"
03:49 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«in␤out␤»
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03:54 timotimo r: say q{ "foo }" bar };
03:54 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/3XeruwNTX9:1â�¤------> [32msay q{ "foo }[33mâ��[31m" bar };[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statement modifierâ�¤       …
03:55 timotimo thought so.
03:56 timotimo anyway, it's way past bedtime for me once again
03:56 timotimo good * #perl6
03:56 TimToady dream of brownian motion :)
03:57 * timotimo wobbles towards the bed
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09:23 dalek v5: b5ea707 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5.nqp:
09:23 dalek v5: use Perl5::RegexGrammar/Actions
09:23 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/b5ea707929
09:23 dalek v5: 74866d9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/ (2 files):
09:23 dalek v5: rename regex grammar/actions, and setup grep/map/sort grammar
09:23 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/74866d95f8
09:23 dalek v5: 97e0316 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
09:23 dalek v5: support map, grep and sort
09:23 dalek v5:
09:23 dalek v5: Supported is:
09:23 dalek v5:   map BLOCK LIST, grep BLOCK LIST and sort BLOCK, LIST
09:23 dalek v5:   sort LIST
09:23 dalek v5: but not yet:
09:23 dalek v5:   map EXPR, LIST, grep EXPR, LIST and sort SUBNAME LIST
09:27 GlitchMr http://thedailywtf.com/Articl​es/Right_In_Front_of_You.aspx
09:27 GlitchMr if $typec != 20&13&5&4 {}
09:32 lizmat FROGGS++
09:34 FROGGS :o)
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10:07 lizmat hmmm… my fix for exists on typed hashes breaks a lot of other things (wizard's apprentice syndrome)
10:09 lizmat moritz's proposed fix "multi method exists($?CLASS:D: Mu $key) { nextwith($key.WHICH) }", fails with https://gist.github.com/lizmat/5603951
10:18 jnthn Should be ::?CLASS:D
10:18 jnthn multi method exists(::?CLASS:D: Mu $key) { nextwith($key.WHICH) } or so.
10:18 dalek panda: 02765c9 | Dagur++ | bootstrap.pl:
10:18 dalek panda: call rm_rf only if directory doesn't exist
10:18 dalek panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/02765c9329
10:18 dalek panda: 048dc67 | tadzik++ | bootstrap.pl:
10:18 dalek panda: Merge pull request #45 from dagurval/patch-1
10:18 dalek panda:
10:18 dalek panda: call rm_rf only if directory doesn't exist
10:18 dalek panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/048dc67db0
10:20 lizmat jnthn: trying that now
10:22 masak good postnoon, #perl6
10:22 * masak gradually comes to life
10:24 * lizmat greats the live part of masak
10:24 lizmat *greets
10:25 * lizmat is not quite alive either
10:26 lizmat t/spec/S09-hashes/objecthash.rakudo (Wstat: 0 Tests: 31 Failed: 2)
10:26 lizmat Failed tests:  1, 5
10:26 lizmat TODO passed:   21
10:27 lizmat seems this fixes one outstanding todo, but breaks something else, investigating
10:28 dalek v5: eb379b1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
10:28 dalek v5: make <=> and cmp work
10:28 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/eb379b1d09
10:29 lizmat r: class A {}; my $a=A.new; my %h{Any}; %h{$a}=1; say %h{$a}
10:29 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:29 lizmat this fails now, returns with (Any)
10:29 FROGGS tadzik: that commit title is a bit confusing :P
10:31 FROGGS lizmat: maybe it does %h{$a}=1 too early?
10:31 lizmat too early?  I think the order is ok
10:31 FROGGS your local changes are in the setting or in the ast? setting I suppose
10:32 lizmat src/core/Hash.pm
10:32 lizmat which winds up in setting, yet
10:32 FROGGS lizmat: maybe it assing Any after doing = 1
10:32 lizmat *yes
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10:32 FROGGS can you paste the diff?
10:32 FROGGS assigns*
10:33 lizmat my %h{Any} is for *creating* the typed hash
10:33 FROGGS hmmm
10:36 lizmat this is the diff "+        multi method exists(::?CLASS:D: Mu $key) { nextwith($key.WHICH) }" (in src/core/Hash)
10:39 jnthn lizmat: at_key uses self.exists
10:39 jnthn lizmat: However, it also passes $key.WHICH to it
10:39 lizmat aha, so that is a double fix
10:40 lizmat making and checking
10:41 lizmat o.O { should have thought of that myself }
10:42 lizmat btw: should that be a multi method or just a method?  seems to be only one candidate...
10:47 lizmat jnthn: alas, no change
10:48 lizmat jnthn: the calls to nqp::findmethod should still use $key_which, right?
10:50 jnthn Thing so
10:50 jnthn Hm, it's rather inefficient that we produce key.WHICH multiple times, and worse stringify it multiple times, in all of this.
10:50 jnthn And the nextwith is kinda icky too
10:51 lizmat well, I'll be glad to look at optimizing this when it works  :-)
10:51 lizmat fwiw, it looks like it is storing it ok: $ mp6 -e 'class A {}; my $a=A.new; my %h{Any}; %h{$a}=1; say %h{$a}; say %h'
10:51 lizmat (Any)
10:51 lizmat (A.new() => 1).hash
10:52 jnthn It'd be much faster if it was more like multi method exists(::?CLASS:D: Mu \key) { nqp::defined($!keys) ?? nqp::p6bool(nqp::existskey($!keys, key.WHICH)) !! False }
10:52 lizmat trying that now
10:55 lizmat why the multi?
10:55 lizmat there's only one "exists" in that class, isn't there ?
10:55 jnthn 'cus the code you gave me and told me didn't work had multi on it :P
10:55 lizmat aha, ok: it compiles anyway
10:56 jnthn Well, the thing is partly about whether you want folks in subclasses to be able to write multis.
10:56 lizmat well, then we need that in more places, like Hash.new  :-)
10:56 jnthn So the multi or not decision in a class is actually making an API decision, really.
10:57 lizmat and a performance reason, I would guess, as multi's a more expensive?
10:57 lizmat *are
10:59 jnthn They are, though I think we can expect our compiler/optimization technology to evolve over time in that regard.
10:59 jnthn It's already not automatically true for multi subs.
11:00 lizmat alas: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/5604056
11:00 jnthn *sigh*
11:01 jnthn May need an nqp::unbox_s placed at some point. I forget how ObjAt actually works.
11:02 lizmat +              ?? nqp::p6bool(nqp::existskey($!keys, nqp::unbox_s(key.WHICH)))   ??
11:02 jnthn Yeah
11:02 lizmat making and testing
11:06 lizmat so basically the difference between a normal hash and a typed hash, is that the key is really the key.WHICH ?
11:08 lizmat jnthn: same failures / same todo passed   :-(
11:08 jnthn lizmat: Yes, but are you still calling .exists the same way in .at_key?
11:10 lizmat the diff: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/5604078
11:10 lizmat grrr… \key instead of key?
11:11 lizmat making and testing
11:11 jnthn self.exists(\key) wnats to be self.exists(key)
11:11 jnthn But I am just wondering a little what EnumMap.at_key calls
11:14 jnthn bah
11:14 jnthn EnumMap.at_key calls nqp::existskey too
11:14 jnthn uh, sorry
11:14 jnthn calls .exists
11:14 lizmat make: *** [CORE.setting.pbc] Segmentation fault: 11   *sigh*
11:15 jnthn Congrats
11:15 lizmat trying again once to make sure it wasn't a cosmic ray
11:15 jnthn Anyway, EnumMap.at_key is calling .exists
11:15 jnthn So it won't work out.
11:16 jnthn We should probably change that.
11:16 lizmat ah, so that's another double .WHICH applied, is what you mean
11:18 jnthn Yeah
11:18 jnthn Well, we can always do https://gist.github.com/jnthn/5604090 I guess
11:18 Chillance joined #perl6
11:18 jnthn Which should also be faster
11:19 lizmat existskye ?  existskey you mean?
11:20 jnthn sure, I'm not testing any of this :P
11:20 jnthn Just hinting in a hopefully helpful direction :)
11:20 lizmat hehe… I am
11:21 * jnthn is working on $other-task in parallel :)
11:21 * lizmat appreciates any spare cycles she can get from jnthn
11:26 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: a754582 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Binder.java:
11:26 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Fix 'is rw'/'is parcel' binding.
11:26 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a7545825de
11:27 lizmat this seems to fix all test errors *and* fixes one todo
11:27 lizmat jnthn: success!
11:27 jnthn \o/
11:27 jnthn lizmat++
11:28 lizmat will create a pull request after a spectest run
11:31 masak lizmat: I may have said this already, but it bears repeating: it's great to have you on the channel, doing stuff. I feel invigorated just seeing things happening, and I invariably like investigating/filing the issues you dig up.
11:32 lizmat masak: fwiw, I feel invigorated myself as well, so that's a win-win !
11:34 masak \o/
11:35 masak your descent into the fray of the action reminds me of me back in 2008, when I filed dozens of rakudobugs each week.
11:35 masak but you're attacking Perl 6 on the spec level, whereas I was doing it on the Rakudo level. brings different issues to the forefront.
11:35 lizmat yes, I remember that, from a distance unfortunately  :-(
11:35 lizmat hehe…  yes,
11:36 lizmat so yesterday I said:   Why don't we have a prefix ~~ ?
11:36 lizmat r: say ~~"a"
11:36 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«a␤»
11:36 lizmat r: say ~~1
11:37 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:37 lizmat just stringifies it twice now, afaics
11:37 jnthn I think STD warns on it also
11:37 lizmat std: say ~~1
11:37 camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Expecting a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~â�¤  (to suppress this message, please use space between ~ ~) at /tmp/sNGqFXDkW6 line 1:â�¤------> [32msay ~~[33mâ��[31m1[0mâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 41mâ�¤Â»
11:38 lizmat ah, that would have been useful
11:38 lizmat my expectation was that it was the same as "$_ ~~ "a""
11:39 masak hm!
11:39 lizmat anyway, the warning would have been fine also…  :-)
11:39 masak yes, I can see the usefulness of that.
11:40 masak it's sort of an in-between form between the full infix:<~~> and a 'when' statement.
11:40 lizmat I wanted to use it inside a grep
11:41 jnthn Note that you can write .ACCEPTS(1) already
11:42 jnthn grep already smart-matches though :)
11:42 lizmat basically: $hash{ grep{ $_ ~~ $something }, $hash.keys }:p
11:42 lizmat yes, but not the right way for me…  as I need the pairs
11:42 jnthn Just write $hash{grep $something, $hash.keys}:P
11:43 jnthn Or $hash.grep(*.key ~~ $something)
11:43 lizmat ah, cool!
11:44 * lizmat learned something again
11:44 jnthn These things happen ;)
11:44 lizmat a lot lately  :-)
11:45 lizmat next problem (only a display issue, but a pain with debugging)
11:45 lizmat r: my @a=([Any]); say @a
11:45 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/m_YpjrDiIm:1␤␤␤»
11:46 lizmat I think that's the .gist
11:47 lizmat if that's intentional, then that's ok...
11:47 jnthn My immediate reaction is that it feels LTA.
11:48 spider-mario joined #perl6
11:48 masak r: my @a = [Any]; say @a; my @b = Any; say @b
11:48 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/0nUKvAytj1:1␤␤␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/0nUKvAytj1:1␤␤␤»
11:49 jnthn I guess the question is if .gist on an array should recursively apply gist to the elements.
11:49 jnthn I don't *immediately* see why not.
11:49 masak right.
11:51 lizmat ok, I'll see if I can fix that…  :-)
11:51 jnthn Warning: arrays are much scarier than hashes ;-)
11:52 lizmat hehe…  I don't scare that easy  :-)
11:52 * masak .oO( laziness: the latent horror )
11:52 jnthn ;)
11:52 lizmat anyway, I now have a working model for module lookups with longname/from/auth & version
11:53 masak \o/
11:53 jnthn ooh!
11:54 lizmat which should also support ranges and wildcards on auth and all of that
11:55 lizmat on that thought and the sun starting to shine here, I'm going to do some cycling, so away for a few hours
11:55 jnthn enjoy :)
11:57 * masak heads to le grocery store
11:58 * jnthn realizes it's trátttid
11:58 jnthn eh, worreva
12:05 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
12:09 lukas_ joined #perl6
12:31 tadzik FROGGS: hehe, indeed :)
12:43 rindolf joined #perl6
12:54 tgt joined #perl6
12:58 prevost joined #perl6
13:03 stevan_ joined #perl6
13:03 stevan_ joined #perl6
13:27 FROGGS O.o
13:27 FROGGS ahh, yes
13:38 woosley1 joined #perl6
13:40 masak lizmat: over here in southern Sweden, the sun has started to shine days ago... and it just won't stop :/
13:41 masak (except at night. I meant in the daytime.)
13:41 FROGGS it's raining here since yesterday :/
13:41 FROGGS well, the sun is shining in the night too to be honest
13:41 masak srsly, it's too hot now. and it's only mid-May.
13:41 FROGGS Texas, we are coming \o/
13:41 * masak kicks global warming on the shins
13:43 moritz http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.​perl5.porters/2013/05/msg201940.html perl 5.18.0 released
13:43 yoleaux 17 May 2013 22:26Z <lizmat> moritz: your solution worked, and indeed :delete has a similar issue
13:44 moritz \o/
13:45 FROGGS moritz: hehe, you can see my name in your post :P
13:46 FROGGS hmmm, I know about 20% of the ppl
13:47 FROGGS moritz: what was your contribution?
13:52 Su-Shee joined #perl6
13:52 Su-Shee hey folks. :)
13:52 jnthn grrr...so darn hot.
13:53 masak Su-Shee++! \o/
13:59 FROGGS o/
14:00 masak Su-Shee: thanks for writing that manifesto. it made me stop and reflect.
14:01 Su-Shee masak: cost me three new grey hairs ;)
14:03 masak I can imagine.
14:04 masak I'm not even close to feeling like I understand gender issues, but I agree with Randall Munroe: it's hugely complicated.
14:04 Su-Shee lots of exhausting discussions afterwards. with guys telling me I'm wrong. ;)
14:04 Su-Shee masak: then our message didn't come across properly. :) we basically said "it's not complicated" :)
14:05 masak I think it is, and always will be.
14:05 masak I thought your message was more like "the current 'solution' isn't a solution".
14:06 masak gender issues are complicated in the sense that they are life-complete.
14:06 masak Su-Shee: do you get the impression that there is (roughly) a US-Europe split in attitudes on CoCs?
14:06 Su-Shee masak: there's a lot of unsaid facepalm on our (perl women's) part.
14:07 Su-Shee masak: A LOT
14:07 masak ok :/
14:07 Su-Shee masak: the entire discussion, the wording, the policy is totally alien to me
14:08 Su-Shee masak: and what I get from eastern europe and russia: they're even more baffled.
14:09 masak Su-Shee: your attitude reminds me of my mom's. she's a successful businesswoman, and she can completely balk at the mere idea of some "women's conventions" or "women's networds". she says "I'm an entrepreneur. quit defining me as an entrepreneur-with-boobs-fancy-that."
14:10 masak networks*
14:11 Su-Shee masak: I absolutely support (and worked a lot) supporting things like "girl's day" and teaching underpriveliged girls and support them and give them any help... but we're talking about grown up, usally educated women here. I think I can reasonably expect a little more hands-on and reflection about own anxieties...
14:12 masak yes, exactly.
14:13 Su-Shee masak: one argument goes "it's not for women like you"
14:14 Su-Shee "like me" meaning something along the lines "of your temper" "your age" "you're already in the community".
14:19 diakopter if you've ever seen Portlandia's satirical portrayal of the two women bookstore owners/operators, you'll have a glimpse of the hilarious/stereotypical perception of such perspectives... from Portland (in particular)
14:22 diakopter it's also biting commentary; by absurd caricature, the logic of particularly myopic arguments is exposed bare for all it's worth
14:23 diakopter (being an effective offshoot of Saturday Night Live, it's actually particularly balanced critique/comedy of quite a few different conflicting perspectives, like SNL itself)
14:24 Su-Shee diakopter: I spent nearly three years living hardcore feminism "women only" style and did feminism and women's studies as one of my main subject in university.. I left when a certain absurdity started in the german discussion..
14:24 diakopter ... the only perspective it explicitly mocks without being somewhat sympathetic is the perspective that it's not okay to laugh at such things
14:24 Su-Shee diakopter: and I _mean_ hardcore feminism. the ultra leftist kind of. ;)
14:25 diakopter sounds like you imply the kind that Americans combine with the name of german WWI/WWII national socialist party :?
14:26 diakopter (in the *highest* ultimately pejorative sense)
14:26 Su-Shee diakopter: haha. no, that luckily died with the end of the war. also, it's not considered "feminism" :)
14:27 Su-Shee diakopter: I can take - and love - political jokes. :)
14:27 diakopter :)
14:27 Su-Shee diakopter: also, not the era was a different kind of radical feminism, it was more pointed to women themselves.
14:27 Su-Shee s/not/no/
14:29 diakopter I just meant the almost cruelly negative twisting of the name feminism used to imply modern-day feminists are akin to members of said party
14:29 Su-Shee I realized :)
14:29 Su-Shee diakopter: it's a common expression here, actually.
14:30 diakopter s/almost//
14:30 diakopter though really it's a pun
14:31 Su-Shee diakopter: anyways. the signing perl women are very angry.
14:31 Su-Shee diakopter: what I wrote is the harmless, toned down version.
14:32 diakopter I was flabbergasted when I saw 1 thumbs-down on my comment on the 2nd post (on which they linked your writings) - which was just:  "(and there were several other women who signed it) (fyi)"
14:32 diakopter because it wasn't directly stated, I was just clarifying...
14:33 diakopter a completely factual comment, with no subjectivism or opinion.
14:33 diakopter and yet it got a thumbs-down.
14:33 diakopter *shakes head*
14:35 Su-Shee diakopter: what leaves me completely baffled is basically that a group of women knowing "the scene" for many years and knowing others, too say "calm down, it's way less worse than you think it is" and that gets completely ignored by guys then telling us "but you're wrong" - "wtf?"
14:35 diakopter well, as far as this year's yapc goes in particular, we have access to particularly direct law enforcement action if it comes to that
14:36 diakopter crossing the line from free speech to slander and obscenity/abuse happens all too quickly
14:36 Su-Shee diakopter: next I hear "it's not for you." (for whom is it then?) and even if it isn't for me anymore because "I made it" - why doesn't anybody even ASK us what we AFTER we made the experiences is required to make communities more welcome...
14:41 diakopter Su-Shee: what is especially ironic is that feminists should feel very happy Austin is the chosen locale, since Austin has a very distinctive/rare lack of discrimination against women, in the area of allowing lack of shirts in public... and yet the sort of women who generally take advantage of the lack of city ordinance against female toplessness are definitely not the sort of women whose opinions they care about
14:42 Su-Shee diakopter: haha, really? are we really talking austin, texas? :)
14:42 diakopter yes.
14:45 Su-Shee diakopter: I hear you poor organizing bloke sit right in the middle between all chairs of it.. very heroic. :)
14:49 berekuk joined #perl6
14:51 timotimo where do i look to find that online discussion? i thought perlmonks, but the feed on the front page is apparently not "a raging torrent of all posts ever"
14:51 diakopter noooo you don't want to know
14:51 diakopter seriously though, don't mention links here please
14:51 diakopter I'll reply in privmsg
14:52 timotimo ... all right
14:52 timotimo is it that bad, yes?
14:53 masak sorear: I can almost but not quite make out the ideas in http://www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad​/blurbs/galoistheory/tracenorm.pdf -- which makes it interesting to me. thank you.
14:54 diakopter it's just that I think it crosses the line into off-topic. I mean, currently it's a meta-discussion, but linking the actual rage-smears can lead to violent/harmful/painful engagement of enemies
14:55 diakopter [when people decide to get directly involved who weren't previously.. and there are much more appropriate locales for such things]
14:56 moritz timotimo: it's really not worth reading, unless you want to headdesk several times
14:56 timotimo er, okay. i'll gladly listen to multiple people wiser than me.
14:57 timotimo (i was certainly not going to get involved. i know how ugly these discussions get and i know how little i know about feminism and discrimination and such to have a sensible opinion)
14:57 woosley1 left #perl6
14:57 Su-Shee facepalming and hair-pulling helps too...
14:58 p5eval joined #perl6
14:58 diakopter Su-Shee: well, I'm certainly not objective about it. I've made errors in communication, but thankfully I'm also the one who found the solution to the problem [that I also created].
15:00 census joined #perl6
15:00 diakopter [speaking of the practical logistics decision of dinner venue selection that sparked the irc exchanges]
15:00 Su-Shee I feel the need to faceplam some more. ;))
15:01 census hi su-shee!
15:03 ajr joined #perl6
15:06 diakopter Su-Shee: I think my big mistake was forgetting that I spent 22 years not far from Austin and so was familiar with its nature.. and assumed that the conference as a whole was therefore okay with [at least being near] Sixth Street's debauchery, since that's where several events were [anticipated to be] planned... but it turns out many people were unfamiliar with the nature of Sixth Street and Austin as a whole
15:07 Su-Shee diakopter: you're hopefully not beating yourself up, are you?
15:07 diakopter no no
15:07 Su-Shee good.
15:08 census diakopter: is that where south by southwest is?
15:08 diakopter yes
15:08 census it does not seem that crazy there but maybe i was not at the right part of the street when i visited ?
15:08 diakopter and it's fine. it's far more tame than having tons of gigantic tech conferences in Las Vegas
15:09 census conferences should be in vegas
15:09 Su-Shee I'd draw a line before bunnies unless hugh hefner actually pays the entire perl conference. ;)
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 99dbf54 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Start preparing to kill off getCodeRefs().
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support:
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Will attempt to use annotations to convey this information instead.
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/99dbf54128
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 43cd500 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Start attaching into to go in annotations.
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/43cd500b93
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 66f45f7 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (2 files):
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Add and start writing out code ref annotation.
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support:
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Not yet being used for anything.
15:10 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/66f45f7766
15:10 diakopter "it's" above refers to census' reference to SxSW
15:12 dmol joined #perl6
15:12 diakopter in fact, in the highly "conservative" crowds in which I was raised, Austin was derided/mocked as that bastion of liberals/feminists
15:13 diakopter (not with huge gravity, just with lighthearted ribbing and scoffing)
15:14 diakopter Su-Shee: I doubt TPF would accept such a donation. ;)
15:15 Su-Shee diakopter: I'd take it. Without even thinking a second :) I wouldn't wear bunny ears though. ;)
15:16 census well austin is "keep austin weird" right?
15:17 diakopter yeah, but trying to be interestingly different is a very common sentiment lots of places
15:19 masak Austin was marked on a North Korea map of nuclear missile targets in some photos released from NK. The Daily Show's John Stewart jokingly asked whether NK was deliberately trying to win the rest of Texas over.
15:19 diakopter hee hee
15:21 diakopter I mean, yes, of course it's completely unfair that the 6th street debauchery gets lumped with the intellectual tendencies of the university..
15:21 census how do they get lumped?
15:22 diakopter just the nature of generalizations and labels to assume consistency and ignore diversity and conflict
15:23 diakopter (and to assume causality of proximity)
15:23 diakopter s/of/from/
15:24 masak "Some members of a group say/do X, while some other members say/do not-X. Hypocrites!"
15:24 diakopter exactly :D
15:25 Su-Shee we should all get back to bickering of perl 5 versus perl 6 again. much more relaxing ;)
15:25 census oh.  are you at the university?
15:25 census su-shee: that is my favorite topic!!
15:25 masak census: mine, too! :)
15:25 census more like #perl versus #perl6
15:25 census #perl6 rules!
15:25 masak but I don't see so much "versus", to be honest.
15:25 census masakism rules!
15:25 census oh no it is versus
15:25 diakopter census: heh no, I went to that university's self-assumed "rival" - the other ginormous land-grant university system in Texas
15:25 census #perl6 is the best!
15:25 masak it's "Perl 5 *and* Perl 6". together, they rock.
15:26 census texas a&m?
15:26 census no #perl is mean :(
15:26 diakopter yah
15:26 census but su-shee is cool
15:26 diakopter census: you're mean for overgeneralizing #perl :)
15:26 census oh i am
15:26 census i love to stereotype and generalize
15:27 census i'm not politically correct
15:28 * masak hates all those bloody over-generalizers who just bunch lots of disparate people together into one homogenous group :P
15:28 Su-Shee I'd like to be as individual and unique as all the other unique individuals.
15:30 masak "We are all individuals!" -- "I'm not."
15:31 census that is my job to lump people together!
15:32 diakopter "you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, you are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile."  -Fight Club
15:32 masak haha
15:32 census i look at the data and make a generalization
15:32 census and say on average this is what the data says about the people
15:32 masak census: that made my day ;)
15:32 census so lots of lumping
15:32 diakopter *cackle*
15:32 census but su-shee is cool even though su-shee visits #perl
15:33 masak yeah, what's up with that?
15:33 masak doesn't fit the whole over-generalization theory.
15:34 census well there is politeness too i guess.
15:34 census there are few people in #perl that are ok.
15:34 census su-shee is one of them
15:34 census but otherwise #perl should be banned from irc
15:34 diakopter *sigh*..
15:34 census the whole channel
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 996eca2 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (5 files):
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Start transition to new CodeRef handling.
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support:
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: This doesn't rip out any of the "old way", just starts using the new
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: annotation for code ref static info instead.
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/996eca28ff
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 594995c | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Eliminate code-gen for huge code refs array.
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/594995c150
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: e831031 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/stage0/ (10 files):
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Update bootstrap.
15:35 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e8310315cb
15:35 census and #perl people should have to join #perl6 and help develop #perl6
15:35 tadzik I don't get such an impression from #perl
15:35 tadzik but I'm also not someone who'd ever ban any channel :)
15:35 diakopter dear posterity: must we announce a disclaimer on everything said here that's controversial, in case you were to assume that just because someone doesn't object/correct, everyone agrees with what was said?
15:36 census who is posterity?
15:36 * masak waves enthusiastically to posterity
15:36 tadzik if people silently disagree, it's their fault
15:36 masak posterity: you're so cool! you rock! sorry about that peak oil thing.
15:36 census what's peak oil?
15:36 diakopter dear god
15:36 masak census: something off topic. don't worry, it's all past us now.
15:37 census hahah
15:37 census diakopter; can i ask you a question about texas?
15:37 diakopter not if it's like the last few questions
15:37 census no i don't think so
15:37 census do you know the term texie?  if so, is it still offensive today?
15:37 diakopter be sure
15:38 diakopter I frankly have never heard that before. If you're not just making it up, I'm sure plenty of other people have though.
15:39 census no i'm not making it up.  people from oklahoma were once regularly called okie, from texas texie, and from arkansas arkie.  and it was highly offensive apparently
15:40 * masak find a definition of "texie" on Urban Dictionary, and immediately regrets doing so
15:40 masak finds*
15:40 Su-Shee oh yes. I read that in school. in grapes of wrath from the forties.
15:40 Su-Shee masak: yeah looking things up on the internet is a dangerous thing.. :)
15:40 census i yes su-shee :)
15:41 census i was just wondering if that term survived past the 1940s
15:41 census because at the time it was so highly offensive
15:41 jnthn Ah, darn it. nqp/master has a busted JVM build, and the working one is in rak-jvm-support, which I can't really merge...
15:41 jnthn ...without merging the Rakudo jvm-support branch too, at least.
15:41 timotimo r: my Mu @stuff = [ [151], [*, *], [40, *, *] ]; @stuff.perl.say;
15:41 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array+{TypedArray}.new([[151], [*, *], [40, *, *]])␤»
15:41 census su-shee: did you like the book?
15:41 jnthn Which I wasn't gonna do.
15:41 timotimo oh neat :)
15:42 jnthn Ahead of this month's release...
15:42 diakopter census: why would you ask such a thing if you thought there was a chance it was a highly offensive ethnic slur?  don't do anything like that again please
15:42 * timotimo is idly considering trying to write an elegant solution to http://rosettacode.org/wiki​/Pascal%27s_triangle/Puzzle
15:43 diakopter jnthn: make a new master-ish branch?
15:43 tadzik how stupid is that
15:43 census well i am just wondering scienfitically speaking.  i've read some books in which people discuss it scientifically.
15:43 jnthn Oh phew, a resposne without me having to rephrase the thing controversially so it gets discussed here :P
15:43 masak timotimo: ooh, that's a neat puzzle.
15:44 jnthn diakopter: Not sure quite how that helps me...
15:44 timotimo i'm not sure how general the solution should become
15:44 masak timotimo: what are the parameters, though? the filled-in numbers, of course. the number of rows? the number of variables?
15:44 diakopter jnthn: oh, I was thinking rollback a ways
15:44 masak timotimo: yes, my thought exactly.
15:44 jnthn diakopter: Oh, revert what busted it. Hm, good point.
15:44 jnthn Just need to be careful with merging :)
15:45 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: d048df5 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (3 files):
15:45 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Toss more dead code.
15:45 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d048df5f5f
15:45 diakopter jnthn: heh
15:46 timotimo masak: for instance the prolog version pretty much uses the description of the problem as its "input", which is so often the case with prolog, and could be variable in almost all aspects (does that even make sense?)
15:46 FROGGS omfg, I had a weird issue right now, first I import a sub called eq_array, which wasnt found at runtime. then I discovered that every sub that has a 'q' in it couldnt be used...
15:46 timotimo but other solutions apparently solve exactly this puzzle, with no variability for shuffling missing numbers around etc
15:47 FROGGS this is the bad line: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/blob​/master/lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp#L3733
15:47 jnthn FROGGS: *lol*
15:47 jnthn FROGGS: Yes, that'd do it.
15:48 FROGGS first I was think that 'eq' followd by the underscore might be the issue...
15:49 tadzik haha
15:49 FROGGS (like the rakudo sub not-whatever {} bug)
15:49 timotimo there's a lengthy discussion on the 100 Doors task discussion page about wether or not more "optimized" solutions are to be posted to RC at all
15:50 masak FROGGS++ # hah!
15:50 timotimo http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Tal​k:100_doors#Optimized_Examples - it was also linked from the Pascal's Triangle / Puzzle Discussion page
15:51 timotimo FROGGS: i don't really understand why that assertion would reject blahqblah? there's a ^ and a $ there quite clearly ... oh! OH! :D
15:51 FROGGS *g*
15:51 FROGGS yeah
15:52 timotimo isn't there a flag for the match operator that puts ^ and $ around the match implicitly?
15:53 FROGGS no idea
15:54 timotimo masak: for example, the BBC basic version has the input as comments and then a matrix + vector form of the whole equation system
15:54 timotimo (as the thing the code operates on)
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16:12 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 7d2e5b4 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
16:12 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Remove a fragile ordering dependency.
16:12 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7d2e5b4d7d
16:17 berekuk joined #perl6
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16:28 timotimo http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Permutations#Perl_6 - could i basically-copy-paste this permutation implementation and use it to supply List.permutations in rakudo?
16:28 timotimo also, it seems like there are no tests for permutations in the spectest suite yet.
16:30 timotimo i can't really tell why the second piece of code is better than the first one. because it doesn't use recursion?
16:37 timotimo (also, the list has to be sorted first for that to work)
16:39 timotimo it also seems to break if two entries are equal. maybe it would be wise to just generate a list of index permutations and apply those to the list "on the way out"
16:44 arnsholt timotimo: Testing a randomisation function is a bit tricky
16:44 yoleaux 17 May 2013 01:38Z <[Coke]> arnsholt: can you get zavolaj passing its tests so we can cut a star a release? I see you've got some other commits in htere.
16:45 arnsholt [Coke]: Ah, that. The fail is a segfault in the callback test file, right? (08-callbacks.t IIRC)
16:45 arnsholt timotimo: One way to do it would be to shuffle a three-element array, say 100 times, and make sure the distribution is uniform(ish)
16:48 colomon joined #perl6
16:48 colomon o/
16:49 arnsholt IIRC Knuth's TAoCP has a bit on this particular topic. If you give me a prod on Tuesday I can find it, if you don't have a copy easily available
16:49 sorear o/ colomon
16:49 arnsholt \o
16:49 colomon sorear!
16:52 timotimo arnsholt: but permutations doesn't need to be random
16:53 timotimo and the specs doesn't speak about the randomness at all, so i'd just go with non-random
16:53 timotimo but the tests could still work, you just have to check for existence of all permutations, rather than compare against some permutation list or something
16:54 Su-Shee_ joined #perl6
16:54 arnsholt timotimo: Oh, I misunderstood. I talked before reading the RC page =)
16:55 arnsholt I thought it was "generate -a- permutation", not "generate all permutations"
16:55 timotimo hehe.
16:56 kaare__ joined #perl6
17:16 arnsholt What timezone is [Coke] in, again?
17:22 FROGGS arnsholt: whois says netherlands but I believe he is from 'murica
17:22 arnsholt 'k
17:23 arnsholt 'cuz the failing test in Zavolaj is both really old and really gnarly, and I'm not sure how to fix it =(
17:23 FROGGS arnsholt: he lives in NY
17:23 FROGGS hmmm
17:24 FROGGS well, then at least fudge the test?
17:24 FROGGS are modules depending on that broken thing you know of?
17:24 arnsholt It's not a test that fails, either =)
17:25 arnsholt Something goes wrong with the Parrot internals, so it can happen at the end of the test file or in the middle of it, depending on when stuff gets GCed
17:25 FROGGS uhh
17:26 arnsholt As I said, really gnarly
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17:35 timotimo arnsholt: fix the failure by removing the test :D
17:35 timotimo oh, that was already said
17:36 arnsholt Yeah, if it was a single test I'd TODO it
17:36 timotimo mhm
17:36 timotimo the whole file then! :))
17:37 arnsholt =D
17:38 arnsholt But the missus is going away to watch Eurovision with some friends soon, so I'll give it another whack tonight
17:39 arnsholt I might actually have an idea what is wrong
17:42 FROGGS you maybe explain the problem then, sometimes that helps getting on the right track
17:43 arnsholt Parrot segfaults on GC after a callback (from C into Perl code) has been invoked
17:44 arnsholt I think my callback handling is broken, and has to invoke an inferior runloop when handling the callback
17:44 colomon FROGGS: +1 # I think half the time I figure out my problem before I can finish typing it out to explain....
17:45 FROGGS colomon: right, same for me
17:45 FROGGS because you focus to narrow when not explaining it to an outstander
17:45 arnsholt Of course, fixing that involves NQP code, which means the fix won't propagate into Star until after the next compiler release
17:45 arnsholt Yeah, explaining is definitely a good idea =)
17:46 FROGGS well, but if this has to be done, then there might be no other way
17:46 arnsholt Oh, definitely
17:46 arnsholt Pretty much any Zavolaj bug is actually an NQP bug =)
17:46 FROGGS ohh wait, when is the may release planned? I remember that this is actually my task O.O
17:47 FROGGS compiler release that is
17:47 FROGGS ahh:   2013-05-23   Rakudo #64 "Austin"             FROGGS
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: 9de6718 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: Add header line to plot output
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/9de671883b
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: d56f568 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: Format plot highlighter hover text a bit better
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/d56f56879b
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: 9d362e1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: Show unscaled tests as bar charts, not series plots
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/9d362e14d3
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: 35dbf43 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | jqplot/plugins/jqplot. (2 files):
17:47 dalek perl6-bench: Add minimized jqPlot plugins needed to support bar charts
17:48 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/35dbf43d82
17:48 arnsholt Oh, compiler release is still a few days out. Then I might make it
17:54 adu hi all
17:55 [Coke] f
17:55 timotimo japhb: is there a page on the 'net showing some benchmark results from your project?
17:56 adu why is it called Zovalaj and not NativeCall?
17:57 Su-Shee because it's difficult to type and has a nice ring to it.
17:57 arnsholt Because reasons, sort of
17:57 arnsholt Alternatively, hysterical raisins =)
17:58 adu lol
17:58 japhb timotimo, there are some old gists, but nothing recent.
17:59 japhb I'm working on adding nqp-jvm support to perl6-bench, and then I'll post something more recent if I find a good place for it.
17:59 timotimo cool :)
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18:05 japhb_ Is there a known fix for this error?  java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Method code too large!
18:05 japhb_ (When building nqp-jvm)
18:05 nwc10 which branch(es) are you using?
18:06 nwc10 in that I had seen that, but pretty sure that it was on an older revision and jnthn knew how to fix it
18:06 nwc10 and did so
18:06 dmol joined #perl6
18:06 japhb_ nwc10, I'm on master, fully up to date
18:07 japhb_ Did the fix go into rak-jvm-support?
18:07 nwc10 not jvm-support
18:07 nwc10 I've been building jvm-support and rak-jvm-support
18:07 nwc10 I don't think that master works yet
18:08 nwc10 in particular, IIRC, NQP's master has a commit merged (by accident) which breaks stuff, but the related commit that fixes it is not merged
18:08 nwc10 so I think "stick to jvm-support and rak-jvm-support until told otherwise"
18:08 jnthn Yes, that.
18:09 nwc10 also, the most current JVM (1.)7 you can update to on your platform
18:09 jnthn After the next Rakudo release we can merge both of those branches.
18:09 nwc10 as the JVM has bugs.
18:09 japhb_ OK
18:09 japhb_ Which is more appropriate for benchmarking nqp-jvm itself right now, jvm-support or rak-jvm-support?
18:09 jnthn Meaning it'll be the June Rakudo that is the first compiler release with some amount (to be determined ;) of JVM support.
18:10 arnsholt jnthn: [Coke]++ reminded me of the callback problem, which I've thought a bit about lately
18:11 arnsholt Could it be that I need to start an inferior runloop when the C code calls back into Parrot-land?
18:11 jnthn arnsholt: You almost certainly are doing so.
18:11 jnthn arnsholt: How do you invoke Parrot-land?
18:11 nwc10 japhb_: "both" - in that only NQP has the branch "rak-jvm-support" and only Rakudo has the branch "jvm-support"
18:12 jnthn rak-jvm-support is a branch needed for building an NQP that works with Rakudo's jvm-support branch.
18:12 arnsholt jnthn: Erm, I sneak away a reference to interp and use that to invoke the Parrot API when the callback is invoked
18:12 arnsholt Which I realised is probably breaking the rules
18:13 timotimo solution found then?
18:13 japhb_ nwc10, NQP has branches with both names
18:13 jnthn I think the jvm-support NQP branch is legacy...is it still existing on the remote?
18:14 * jnthn don't have it locally...
18:14 japhb_ hmmm, I see it in my clone, but I haven't recently looked into how git cleans those when the remote branch disappears
18:14 jnthn japhb_: Seems not, so maybe you have it 'cus you checked it out earlier?
18:14 jnthn japhb_: Short answer: it doesn't :)
18:15 japhb_ Well there you go
18:15 japhb_ So I guess nqp/rak-jvm-support is the one I'll need to use until it gets merged back to nqp/master
18:16 jnthn (Long answer: the set of branches you have locally and that the remote has are independent of each other. When you checkout a remote branch for the first time what it really does is git branch -b branchname origin/branchname for you, or something close to that, but also setting the upstream along the way.)
18:17 jnthn (Thus you can have different local names for remote branches should you wish to.)
18:17 japhb_ jnthn, oh, yes I knew that, I meant the trimming of refs/remotes/*
18:17 jnthn Oh, git remote prune origin
18:17 japhb_ ah
18:17 jnthn iirc
18:18 japhb_ nice!  A dozen origin refs go bye-bye
18:18 japhb_ thanks, jnthn
18:20 * colomon needs to figure out how to push branches for the set spec changes to roast....
18:21 arnsholt jnthn: What's the appropriate way to start an inferior run-loop, BTW?
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18:32 jnthn arnsholt: Parrot_pcc_invoke_from_sig_object for example
18:36 arnsholt Right, that's what I'm doing, so not that after all =/
18:36 Su-Shee joined #perl6
18:36 japhb_ Gah.  nqp/rak-jvm-support builds and installs, but: $ ./nqp -e 'say("hello")'
18:36 japhb_ Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..1, but got 3
18:36 japhb_ in multi_declarator
18:38 japhb_ Any ideas?
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18:42 timotimo for the longest time i thought inferior run lop referred to worse than optimal performance
18:43 lizmat fix for exists on typed hashes: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/142
18:46 jnthn japhb_: Where are you doing the ./nqp ?
18:46 jnthn japhb_: The error is not familiar, however.
18:48 arnsholt jnthn: So the saving and passing around of the interp pointer I do is likely to be kosher? It feels a bit icky, TBH, but it doesn't look like there's a way to independently get an interp pointer
18:53 jnthn arnsholt: That bit should be OK
18:55 lizmat slightly faster module loading (temporary fix): https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/143
18:55 * lizmat is off for some mindless ESC watching
18:58 FROGGS arnsholt: when receiving a callback from a c-lib in perl5 land you have the pointer of the main interpreter too, but most times you clone the interpreter and work with the clone
19:00 tadzik lizmat++
19:00 tadzik faster module loading is a Big Deal
19:00 tadzik real-world applications are going to notice this much more than spectests, I'm sure
19:04 nwc10 a reasonably recent git can do git fetch --prune
19:04 nwc10 git fetch --prune --all # gets the lot
19:06 arnsholt jnthn: Dang. I really thought that was it =)
19:08 nwc10 [nicholas@dromedary-001 nqp]$ strace -f perl  -le 'print "Hi"' 2>&1 >/dev/null | wc
19:08 nwc10 173    1156   10662
19:08 nwc10 [nicholas@dromedary-001 nqp]$ strace -f ./nqp  -e 'say("Hi")' 2>&1 >/dev/null | wc
19:08 nwc10 7072   55030  538918
19:08 nwc10 and, unsurprisingly, one of these is slower
19:09 nwc10 nqp on parrot is a lot more respectable:
19:09 nwc10 625    4192   46437
19:09 Su-Shee at least one of us doing something useful...
19:10 dmol joined #perl6
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19:26 timotimo masak: your gift has reached me :)
19:28 GlitchMr std: my $empty-set = set; # well, it was before
19:28 camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�The 'set' listop may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to clarify) at /tmp/fI1Ys1TvFA line 1:�------> [32mmy $empty-set = set[33m�[31m; # well, it was before[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:00 42m�»
19:30 jnthn nwc10: What to the three numbers mean?
19:30 jnthn *do
19:31 nwc10 lines, "words", bytes
19:31 nwc10 so lines is really the only one that matters - number of system calls.
19:31 jnthn oh, duh, I missed the wc
19:31 nwc10 java -version isn't much worse than perl -v
19:31 timotimo lizmat: could it be that your :delete changes got mixed into the faster module load pull request?
19:32 moritz looks like it
19:35 japhb_ jnthn, I get that same error in all three cases: CWD is nqp/ and using ./nqp ; CWD is nqp/ and using install/nqp ; CWD is nqp/install/ and using ./nqp
19:35 japhb_ Oh now that's interesting.
19:36 japhb_ It's not *exactly* the same error.  The nqp in install/nqp/ has 'expected 0..0' instead of 'expected 1..1'
19:37 nwc10 Things work for me with this Java:
19:37 nwc10 java version "1.7.0_21"
19:37 nwc10 OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-1ubuntu1)
19:37 nwc10 OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)
19:37 nwc10 and this Java:
19:37 nwc10 java version "1.7.0_19"
19:37 nwc10 OpenJDK Runtime Environment (rhel-2.3.9.1.el6_4-x86_64)
19:37 nwc10 OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)
19:38 nwc10 (and the Java on the Raspberry Pi, but that's powered off and doesn't do wake on lan)
19:38 jnthn japhb_: That's...really odd. I'm struggling to guess.
19:38 japhb_ I
19:39 jnthn japhb_: does -v work?
19:39 japhb_ I've got this java:
19:39 japhb_ java version "1.7.0_21"
19:39 japhb_ OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-0ubuntu0.12.10.1)
19:39 japhb_ OpenJDK Client VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode, sharing)
19:39 japhb_ jnthn, no.  :-(
19:39 jnthn japhb_: Same error?
19:40 japhb_ jnthn, close
19:40 japhb_ $ ./nqp -v
19:40 japhb_ Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..1, but got 2
19:40 japhb_ in multi_declarator:sym<multi>
19:40 jnthn Can you gist me the full trace?
19:41 japhb_ That's literally all of it.
19:41 jnthn I want to know how on earth we end up in multi_declarator:sym<multi>!
19:41 jnthn oh...wtf...
19:41 jnthn You have latest from Git?
19:41 * japhb_ tries a git clean -dXf and ConfigureJVM again
19:41 japhb_ yep, I did, will pull again just in case
19:41 jnthn Very weird.
19:42 jnthn I mean, it looks like it invokes completely the wrong thing at startup
19:42 tgt joined #perl6
19:43 japhb_ Oh that's interesting.  There's a couple files that 'make clean' did not remove, but 'git clean -dXf' did: Makefile, config.status, and src/gen/nqp-config.nqp -- that last one is very fishy to me.
19:43 jnthn config.status I can see not going away
19:43 jnthn The others, less so...
19:43 jnthn make realclean should kill the Makefile
19:44 japhb_ There's no realclean in the Makefile generated by ConfigureJVM.pl .
19:45 jnthn Oh.
19:45 jnthn Well, that's an easy fix... :)
19:45 japhb_ :-)
19:45 jnthn The other thing, though, is weird.
19:45 japhb_ nqp-config.nqp, you mean?
19:45 jnthn No, the error you're getting.
19:45 japhb_ ah
19:49 japhb_ Dang it, same error again
19:50 japhb_ ok, I'm at the tip of rak-jvm-support.  Is that where you are too, nwc10?
19:51 * timotimo tries to build a newer jvmkudo
19:52 japhb_ Just in case it helps, here are the slightly different errors for nqp/install/nqp:
19:52 japhb_ $ install/nqp -v
19:52 japhb_ Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..1, but got 2
19:52 japhb_ in onlystar
19:53 japhb_ $ cd install; ./nqp -v
19:53 japhb_ Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 0..0, but got 2
19:53 japhb_ in
19:53 japhb_ In all three cases, those are the complete errors
19:54 jnthn japhb_: Have you done successful builds in the past?
19:54 japhb_ yes, but last time I tried was weeks ago.
19:54 jnthn Try 9756183, which is before today's changes
19:55 japhb_ got it
19:56 japhb_ Building it now
19:58 japhb_ Woah, the build segfaulted
19:59 japhb_ jnthn, error gist at https://gist.github.com/japhb/179e0e5382b2fe03b28e
20:00 timotimo ./nqp -e 'say("hello")'; - works for me. but when i write that in the nqp repl i get a NPE and lots of more error
20:00 japhb_ .oO( 32-bit fail? )
20:01 jnthn japhb_: whoa
20:01 jnthn japhb_: Scary thing is, we have no unmanaged extensions of any kind...it's all JVM bytecode and Java code...
20:02 jnthn So that's a kosher JVM bug. :/
20:02 * jnthn wonders if 32-bit is anything to do with it, but it seems unlikely
20:02 japhb_ Nice.  It figures, given my previous experience with Java, that I would manage to trigger a JVM bug.  *rolls eyes*
20:02 arnsholt jnthn: How's life in Malmö today, BTW =)
20:03 jnthn arnsholt: Well, ask masak...I'm 15km north in Lund ;)
20:03 jnthn And safe from all the happenings in the big city :P
20:03 japhb_ Anyone else have 32-bit x86 (especially linux) who can attempt to recreate the failure?
20:03 arnsholt Sounds like an excellent plan today!
20:04 arnsholt (That last at jnthn, obv)
20:05 * japhb_ goes to make a sandwich and hope someone volunteers.  ;-)
20:05 timotimo volunteers to eat it?
20:06 japhb :-P
20:06 timotimo is the jakudo executable supposed to be able to say "oh"?
20:08 nwc10 jnthn: straw poll (1 run) but numbers consistent with donaldh's suggestion - bigger JVM heap makes parsing faster
20:08 nwc10 [and actually finish :-)]
20:09 nwc10 actually, that suggests that pruning memory use (if possible) would be a speedup in itself
20:09 dalek v5: 2644cc5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
20:09 dalek v5: fixed pattern of impossible sub names
20:09 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/2644cc5fd3
20:09 dalek v5: d411631 | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
20:09 dalek v5: fudged path to test.pl
20:09 dalek v5:
20:09 dalek v5: With this commit we pass more than one percent of the test suite.
20:09 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/d411631593
20:10 nwc10 assuming that progress is going to be S-shaped, 1% is actually quite impressive
20:11 timotimo huh, 1% of what?
20:13 nwc10 20:09 < dalek> v5: With this commit we pass more than one percent of the test  suite.
20:14 arnsholt Ther Perl 5 test suite, I imagine
20:17 timotimo ooooh :)
20:17 FROGGS right
20:25 stevan_ joined #perl6
20:25 timotimo FROGGS: cool stuff :)
20:25 FROGGS ya, goes well atm
20:26 timotimo when do you expect the first major roadblock?
20:28 Ulti FROGGS is there a specific commit of v5 to use with the latest R*?
20:28 Ulti or do I need to be building the latest Rakudo
20:29 census joined #perl6
20:32 FROGGS Ulti: best is latest rakudo, and then read the README
20:32 Ulti yeah just noticed even filenames have changed from the version I have
20:35 Su-Shee japhb_> Anyone else have 32-bit x86 (especially linux) who can attempt to recreate the failure?
20:35 Su-Shee japhb_: I have
20:35 japhb_ Su-Shee, great, can you give it a try?
20:35 Su-Shee japhb_: if you tell me what I have to get and do, sure.
20:36 Su-Shee that's my java: java version "1.6.0_27"
20:36 Su-Shee good enough?
20:36 japhb_ Su-Shee, I think 1.7 is required now
20:36 Su-Shee oh.
20:37 japhb_ because of features nqp-jvm users
20:37 japhb_ :-(
20:37 japhb_ (to the 'oh.')
20:37 Su-Shee what else do I need?
20:37 japhb_ That's all I know of.
20:38 Su-Shee japhb_: no, I mean what of rakudo/jakudo do I have to get?
20:41 Su-Shee in 12 seconds I have java  1.7 ;)
20:48 kivutar joined #perl6
20:48 Su-Shee java version "1.7.0_21"
20:51 yoleaux joined #perl6
20:51 japhb_ excellent
20:52 Su-Shee I blindly guessed that I need nqp and configurejvm.pl
20:52 japhb_ Su-Shee, no rakudo ... just nqp.  Either the rak-jvm-support branch, or commit 9756183
20:52 Su-Shee already building ;)
20:53 japhb_ master would build for me, but not run.
20:53 yoleaux joined #perl6
20:53 Su-Shee uhm. ;)
20:53 Su-Shee java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Method code too large!
20:53 Su-Shee in <anon>make: *** [src/stage1/QAST.class] Error 1
20:54 japhb_ Sorry, no, I meant, master wouldn't build (failed with an NQP error -- that same one you saw),
20:54 japhb_ rak-jvm-support would build but not run,
20:54 Su-Shee ok, let's see.
20:54 Su-Shee japhb_: where's rak-jvm-support?
20:54 japhb_ and commit 9756183 segfaults during build
20:54 japhb_ It's just an NQP branch
20:55 Su-Shee trying the commit 9756183
20:55 japhb_ 'make clean; git clean -dXf; git checkout rak-jvm-support; perl ConfigureJVM.pl; make && make install'
20:55 japhb_ nod
20:56 Su-Shee (building..)
20:56 Su-Shee how do I run it?
20:57 jnthn ./nqp -e "say('it lives!')" or so
20:57 Su-Shee ok. still building :)
20:57 cognominal joined #perl6
21:00 Su-Shee commit built, runs, lives.
21:00 Su-Shee shall I try rak-jvm-support next?
21:01 Su-Shee (already doing it..)
21:02 japhb_ WTH
21:02 Su-Shee well.. everything generally builds and runs here ;)
21:02 japhb_ Which linux are you running?
21:02 Su-Shee also, I got the oracle java.
21:02 Su-Shee slackware
21:03 japhb_ Oh, hmm
21:03 japhb_ what's your 'java -version'?
21:03 FROGGS <Su-Shee> java version "1.7.0_21"
21:03 Su-Shee java version "1.7.0_21"
21:03 Su-Shee Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_21-b11)
21:03 Su-Shee Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM (build 23.21-b01, mixed mode)
21:03 japhb_ FROGGS, I was looking for the full output
21:03 Su-Shee ^^^^
21:03 japhb_ Mmm-hmmm
21:03 japhb_ 32-bit IcedTea bug?
21:04 Su-Shee it's not build by hand though, it's oracle's whatever binary jdk package (not jre) and then just repackaged for slackware
21:04 Su-Shee japhb_: what's that?
21:05 Su-Shee rak-jvm-support built, too, runs, lives.
21:05 japhb_ Su-Shee, it's this: $ java -version
21:05 japhb_ java version "1.7.0_21"
21:05 japhb_ OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-0ubuntu0.12.10.1)
21:05 japhb_ OpenJDK Client VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode, sharing)
21:05 Su-Shee japhb_: ok, whatever that is.. I have "plain" java.
21:05 * jnthn also
21:05 japhb_ .oO( No foam! )
21:06 Su-Shee mind that this was actually 32bit now.
21:07 Su-Shee master directly fails during build, though.
21:07 Su-Shee can I build anything else? :)
21:07 japhb_ OK, so the master thing we believe to just be a broken commit that will be fixed when rak-jvm-support is merged back.
21:08 japhb_ And it's looking suspiciously like OpenJDK/IcedTea may be at fault for me.
21:08 Su-Shee japhb_: just get the "orginal" package?
21:08 japhb_ Does anyone have 64-bit OpenJDK/IcedTea to rule that out?
21:09 japhb_ Su-Shee, Well ... there are two goals here: 1) get me working (for which your suggestion is probably most expedient), and 2) know WTH is wrong, so that when other people inevitably trip over the same problem, we can help them right off.
21:09 nwc10 things work for me on this x86_64 Ubuntu system:
21:09 nwc10 java version "1.7.0_21"
21:09 nwc10 OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-1ubuntu1)
21:09 nwc10 OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)
21:09 Su-Shee japhb_: "it's you" :)
21:09 japhb_ OK, nwc10 narrows it down.
21:09 dalek v5: 50e2cf5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/test.pl:
21:09 dalek v5: fix signature of is()
21:09 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/50e2cf5f5c
21:09 dalek v5: 8039b3e | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
21:09 dalek v5: make undef assign/return Nil instead of Mu
21:09 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/8039b3e223
21:10 japhb_ Either A) it's me, or B) it's 32-bit OpenJDK.
21:10 japhb_ (Since I'm running Mint, which is Ubuntu+tweaks)
21:11 Su-Shee I'd say, it's your specialty linux then, I couldn't be plainer and nwc10 is a common ubuntu...
21:12 japhb_ Su-Shee, the Mint tweaks are almost entirely graphical-desktop-related.
21:12 Su-Shee "almost entirely" ;)
21:13 Ulti FROGGS against the latest Rakudo when I do make install inside v5 I get: "Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op bind: Error while compiling op numify: Error while compiling op atkey: Error while compiling op getenvhash: No registered operation handler for 'getenvhash'"
21:13 Su-Shee if I remember correctly it's "just the completely other gnome" ;)
21:13 japhb_ (Sure, and stripping out Canonical-ad-ware)
21:13 Su-Shee japhb_: well you're right, I don't really see how this affects the jdk.
21:13 Su-Shee japhb_: on the other hand, if they really built theirs and packaged..
21:13 Su-Shee japhb_: which I just specifically didn't
21:15 Su-Shee japhb_: you can ask me any time to re-build something though to check.. I'm now up2date and just have to run it.
21:15 FROGGS Ulti: what do you mean by latest rakudo? I'm talking about nqp/master HEAD and rakudo/nom HEAD
21:15 japhb_ Su-Shee, OK, thanks
21:15 FROGGS Ulti: getenvhash is there since a few weeks
21:18 Ulti just cloned https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git the last commit was from you a day ago :S so I guess not that bleeding edge
21:20 FROGGS Ulti: that is bleeding edge, yes
21:21 Ulti FROGGS: I bet its just me having some other perl6 in my path still one second, sorry
21:21 nyuszika7h joined #perl6
21:22 FROGGS Ulti: yeah, that must be it
21:22 Ulti need a perl6brew ;]
21:23 arlinius joined #perl6
21:23 FROGGS yeah :o)
21:23 Ulti yeah sorry FROGGS that was the problem ;__;
21:23 FROGGS np
21:24 donaldh joined #perl6
21:26 tadzik Ulti: did you try pandabrew? :)
21:26 Su-Shee tadzik: you made a pandabrew?
21:26 adu joined #perl6
21:26 Su-Shee (also brewing pandas is pretty disgusting man.. :)
21:29 DarthGandalf joined #perl6
21:29 Ulti tadzik: I didn't even know it existed
21:29 jnthn Oh, I thought it was a tasty brew, made by a panda... :)
21:29 Ulti I'll check it out
21:29 tadzik yeah, I didn't advertise it much though :)
21:29 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/pandabrew
21:29 tadzik it's imperfect, of course
21:30 tadzik and I'm afraid you need to install panda first :P
21:30 Ulti http://robsbeerquest.blogsp​ot.co.uk/p/panda-frog.html  pandafrogbrew
21:30 tadzik I'll hopefully get some tuits to fix it soon
21:40 Ulti tadzik just reading this olde thread involving jordynclee, linked from your blog... is it wrong that I'm laughing? lol
21:44 tadzik Ulti: jordynclee? Was that the "geeks can't dress" thing?
21:45 Ulti lol yeah
21:45 tadzik heh. It was a funny incident, yeah
21:46 Ulti I'd be fairly annoyed if that happened to me too though
21:46 tadzik I was too
21:46 tadzik it's one of those things at which you laugh after a year
21:46 tadzik (was it a year ago?)
21:46 Ulti yeah
21:47 Ulti I'm more laughing at how she utterly didn't know who she was messing with, she probably just googled "geek" or something in an image search
21:47 Ulti and obviously the most famous popup first ;P
21:50 FROGGS Ulti: linky?
21:50 masak Ulti: she was spectacularly tactless in her message, if you ask me. tried to combine "you geeks have an awful dress sense" with "hey, I do geek stuff too. I speak geek. I even watch [something irrelevant] sometimes"
21:50 tadzik "she utterly didn't know who she was messing with" -- that makes me feel like a Higher Order Gangsta ;)
21:51 masak Ulti: if you are targeting a demographic, it's a bad idea to start by pissing off same demographic, and appearing like a total poser.
21:53 tadzik FROGGS: http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2012/08/09​/looks-like-i-pissed-off-the-internet/
21:54 saxx11 joined #perl6
21:55 masak saxx11: aloha.
21:55 Ulti masak: agreed
21:56 Ulti I think she is p. young though especially as her Twitter feed suggests she wants to be a law student.. so you probably just made some 17 yol female blogger cry on the other side of the world :D
21:57 flussence haha, seems like that site's been taken down entirely
21:57 Ulti yeah
21:57 Ulti I havent seen how awful the blog post is.. maybe waybackwhen has it
21:57 flussence IIRC, bad enough that that response was pretty restrained
21:58 Ulti http://web.archive.org/web/20120811002​700/http://140stitches.com/2012/8/2/ne​rds-its-time-to-up-your-fashion-game   LOL
21:58 Ulti you can't delete the internet (or your past)
21:59 FROGGS but where is that image??
21:59 FROGGS :P
22:00 Ulti well its a conference pic so I'm sure we can piece that together
22:01 timotimo oooh, that one
22:01 timotimo i remember that
22:01 FROGGS from yapc::eu? last year?
22:01 tadzik FROGGS: the image mysteriously disappeared after my blog post :)
22:01 FROGGS *g*
22:02 tadzik FROGGS: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0svqBX518-4/T5QaWftY​r1I/AAAAAAAAAd8/mRlYKBZlkfc/s320/IMG_3935.jpg that's the one
22:02 tadzik http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0svqBX518-4/T5QaWftY​r1I/AAAAAAAAAd8/mRlYKBZlkfc/s1600/IMG_3935.jpg bigger
22:02 FROGGS tadzik: you're the one with the onion?
22:02 tadzik I think me and moritz++ were visible on her crop
22:02 tadzik FROGGS: that's right
22:03 timotimo oh, that was a lady?
22:03 masak I must say all of you in that picture look very appropriately dressed for a hackathon.
22:03 tadzik I still don't see her point. I was handsome as a devil himself
22:03 FROGGS where's the problem? I've expected at least a shirt like TimeToady++ wears
22:03 masak tadzik: agreed. :)
22:03 tadzik hehe
22:03 FROGGS (not that I won't wear such a shirt if I had one)
22:03 tadzik FROGGS: cargo pants and a hackathon t-shirt
22:04 tadzik bad dresscode, yo
22:04 FROGGS well, causal
22:04 tadzik the only non-perl t-shirts I own are google t-shirts ;P
22:04 tadzik well, almost
22:05 timotimo wow, that's dedication
22:05 FROGGS hehe
22:06 tadzik I wish they gave socks and underpants too, would make life so much easier
22:06 aindilis joined #perl6
22:06 nebuchadnezzar joined #perl6
22:06 Ulti my next tshirt is going to have this on http://www.iscb.org/images/st​ories/ismb2010/vrs/11897.jpg I figure about 1 in 10 thousand people it will be a conversation starter
22:06 _ReD_ joined #perl6
22:07 _ReD_ left #perl6
22:07 FROGGS Ulti: not for me :/
22:08 FROGGS I'd probably say 'ohh nice' and 'really?'
22:08 tadzik +1, or rather -1 ;)
22:08 FROGGS :o)
22:08 labster "nice kanji you got there Ulti"
22:08 masak "would be a shame if something were to... happen to it"
22:09 masak :P
22:09 labster masak++ lol
22:09 Ulti they're not kanji though, but yeah I guess there will be the confusion convo starter :)
22:09 tadzik I imagine that says "Talk Kanji to me"
22:10 masak Ulti: what are they? I recognize many of the top ones, but the bottom ones are either fake or very, very rare.
22:10 Ulti they're a calligraphy representation of the 20 common proteogenic amino acids
22:10 masak ooh!
22:11 masak that's *awesome*.
22:11 masak WANT
22:11 Ulti I want to make a font that has them, its a scientist that came up with them
22:11 masak oh wow oh wow oh wow
22:11 tadzik :D
22:11 Ulti the S shapes are the amino acids with sulphur in the + are positively charged... they are genuinely great characters to use for humans to understand
22:13 labster neat!
22:16 berekuk joined #perl6
22:18 labster I bought a new laptop, so I could actually have something to hack on at the YAPCNA hackathon -- and FROGGS++ helped me get linux running on it.
22:20 tadzik nice :)
22:20 tadzik I have a shiny new one too. The old one is on a well-deserved retirement
22:21 FROGGS labster: tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't you said on friday that you considered buying one?
22:21 FROGGS quick decision maker, ehh?
22:21 FROGGS labster: what is it?
22:23 labster I've been thinking about it for a week.  I saw an advert for a Dell Inspiron 13Z for only 300 USD, with a Ivy Bridge Core i3.  The price seemed about right for my poorness, so I bought it.
22:26 FROGGS sounds cool
22:27 labster Intel says the CPU should cost 225 USD on its own for us consumers, so it seemed like a fairly good deal.
22:27 tadzik indeed
22:28 diakopter yapc austin registrations http://i.imgur.com/NTvWQGl.png
22:29 tadzik oh, I have to pay
22:29 FROGGS did that a few days back
22:30 lue "The currently compiling Perl parser" (S02:3105) == "the Perl parser currently being used for what's compiling" || "The Perl parser currently being compiled" ?
22:31 masak lue: True
22:31 diakopter the former
22:31 masak lue: (also, numification warnings/errors) :P
22:31 * lue should've used a junction :P
22:31 masak rn: say "A" == "B" || "C"
22:31 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏A' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:10020␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3008␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3006␤  in sub…
22:31 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: A␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3652 (ANON @ 10) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3654 (NumSyntax.str2num @ 5) ␤  at /h…
22:32 masak p5eval: 1
22:32 p5eval masak: 1
22:32 masak p5eval: "A" == "B" || "C"
22:32 p5eval masak: 1
22:32 masak p5eval: use warnings; "A" == "B" || "C"
22:32 p5eval masak: Argument "B" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at (eval 7) line 1.Argument "A" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at (eval 7) line 1.1
22:32 lue I thought it was the former, but I wasn't sure
22:33 masak yes, it's the whole thing with "knowing what language you're currently parsing".
22:34 lue Also, it's either the example at S02:3073 or me & rakudo that doesn't understand how BEGIN works
22:34 masak and language pragmas being tied to lexical scopes in the parsed text (and dynamic variables in the parser).
22:35 lue r: BEGIN { COMPILING::<$?FOO> = 42; }; say COMPILING::<$?FOO>; BEGIN { COMPILING::<$?FOO> = 45 }; # the example would say the output is 42
22:35 camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«45␤»
22:35 charsbar_______1 joined #perl6
22:35 FROGGS hmmm, I thought it will run all BEGIN blocks in ordner, then the rest of the code
22:36 lue just like I and rakudo think :)
22:36 FROGGS yeah
22:36 FROGGS maybe there is something special about COMPILING::
22:37 lue So unless the example is right and we're all wrong, can I fix the example so it works like intended? (specifically, put each say and its preceding BEGIN in a separate closure)
22:38 FROGGS I'm not sure that I am the right guy to give you a +1
22:39 lue My question was to #perl6 in general :) [I will fix it soon, unless someone can tell me why it *should* work. COMPILING shouldn't affect how BEGIN blocks work, unless I've completely misunderstood BEGIN]
22:40 FROGGS k
22:53 masak nice introduction to row types. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~neelk/rows.pdf -- might interest some people in here.
22:53 masak 'night, #perl6
22:53 lue g'♞ masak o/
22:54 dalek specs: 81cf4c7 | lue++ | S02-bits.pod:
22:54 dalek specs: [S02] Fix COMPILING pseudopackage example.
22:54 dalek specs:
22:54 dalek specs: The example seemed to show a misunderstanding of BEGIN blocks, at least
22:54 dalek specs: by our undestanding :) . Fixed so that the BEGIN blocks work like they
22:54 dalek specs: were intended, by moving each in a separate closure.
22:54 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/81cf4c7327
23:00 lue masak: "a: int|r" strikes me initially as looking a lot like S02/Polymorphic Types (Conjectural)
23:01 lue [although I'd have to give this presentation a better look later, with an OCaml reference by my side :) ]
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