Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-05-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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06:31 dalek v5: 19ecc83 | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/test.pl:
06:31 dalek v5: silence warnings in sub is()
06:31 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/19ecc83152
06:31 dalek v5: 01aa6d2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
06:31 dalek v5: add P5Str to Bool
06:31 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/01aa6d291f
06:31 dalek v5: c799910 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/ (4 files):
06:31 dalek v5: move $? to Perl5::Terms
06:31 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/c799910ce9
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06:46 dalek v5: e320b09 | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
06:46 dalek v5: status update after changes to is(), Bool.P5Str and $?
06:46 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/e320b0948f
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07:23 dalek roast: 12bcc92 | moritz++ | S32-hash/ (2 files):
07:23 dalek roast: unfudge slice+adverb tests
07:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/12bcc92978
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07:33 kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
07:33 sorear o/
07:33 brrt hi kresike
07:36 labster good morning all
07:38 FROGGS O/
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07:42 labster r: say "VERSION".IO.slurp
07:42 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'readall' for invocant of type 'Any'␤  in method slurp at src/gen/CORE.setting:11159␤  in block  at /tmp/G_LsJSxR_V:1␤␤»
07:43 labster r: say "VERSION".IO.open.slurp
07:43 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«v15-4-g1f35f89␤␤»
07:43 labster Should the first version work?
07:44 moritz yes
07:44 moritz the error message leaks internal details
07:45 labster well, that's a problem too... but opening the handle isn't specced.
07:46 moritz r: say slurp 'VERSION'
07:46 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«v15-4-g1f35f89␤␤»
07:46 labster different spec for the method.  I think I'll probably fix that.
07:46 moritz it just feels weird if the sub form works without explict open, but the method form doesn't
07:47 moritz ++labster
07:51 labster oh, hilarious, IO::Handle.open isn't specced
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08:12 sorear sandbox fail
08:24 dagurval r: "/tmp/hai".IO.spurt("hello")
08:24 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'spurt' for invocant of type 'IO::Handle'␤  in block  at /tmp/7FDla8CYpg:1␤␤»
08:25 dagurval if IO::Handle has slurp, shouldn't it also have spurt?
08:26 lizmat moritz++
08:31 moritz dagurval: .spurt is the same as .print, really
08:32 moritz oh, except that .spurt would auto-open too
08:32 FROGGS hmmm, but with an implicit open and close, no?
08:32 moritz so, yes
08:32 FROGGS :o)
08:32 moritz FROGGS++, dagurval++
08:32 labster dagurval: I saw your pull request on spurt -- I was thinking that spurt(IO::Handle)  should be a wrapper around IO::Handle.spurt.
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08:40 labster does open( :p ) mean pipe?
08:40 FROGGS yes
08:41 * lizmat wonders if that is not too confusing with :p from .pairs
08:42 labster Are the contexts at all similar?
08:42 moritz no
08:43 moritz but open( :p ) is likely to be replaced with a separate pipe() function or so anyway
08:43 lizmat ok
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08:57 * moritz introduces open('file', :kv), which opens 'file' as a key-value store. All just to annoy lizmat++ :-)
08:58 lizmat actually, I love key-value stores…  been using MySQL for years like that  :-)
08:58 bonsaikitten moritz: perl6. the NoSQL language of choice? ;)
09:03 brrt nice
09:06 lizmat moritz: actually, would the :kv imply Any %h{Str}, or would it allow for other keytypes / of as well
09:07 moritz lizmat: I was really just kidding
09:07 lizmat too bad, because I really need that, actually  :-)
09:07 lizmat but maybe not as part of open()
09:08 lizmat more likely on slurp() and spurt()
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09:15 labster I'm adding IO::Handle.encoding instead, which I think will be more useful.
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10:21 lizmat psssttt…  everybody's a hacking!
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10:22 * lizmat is working on :delete in combination with :k:v:kv:p
10:22 lizmat and wonders why not to add :vk immediately as well, masak?
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13:02 lizmat Support for subscript adverb :delete in combination with :kv :p :k :v   https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/158
13:03 timotimo how many of them can you have at the same time? :D
13:03 lizmat See S02:2514
13:03 lizmat Combining subscript adverbs
13:04 timotimo foun dit
13:04 timotimo sometimes perl6 is just crazy :)
13:04 lizmat the last 6 are trickier than I thought
13:07 lizmat next thing, writing more todo tests :-)
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13:43 raiph S02:2514 (eg) lands far from intended target. view source shows line num links are borked
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13:45 pmurias tadzik: ping
13:45 lizmat raiph: you mean in the irclog?
13:45 raiph right
13:46 lizmat ok, that would be up moritz' alley
13:46 lizmat afk for a few hours
13:46 raiph it's not the link, it's the target html file
13:48 raiph to clarify, yes, the link from the irclog, but no, the error is in http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html
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14:16 moritz raiph: those are generated from util/Text-SmartLinks/script/smartlinks.pl in the Mu repo, iirc
14:25 census hi!  is anybody here familiar with cygwin?
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14:55 kresike bye folks
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15:03 tadzik pmurias: pong
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15:32 pmurias tadzik: is there a suggested hotel/hostel where people coming to the PLPW are staying? (like at a yapc?)
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15:35 tadzik pmurias: no, no particular one
15:35 tadzik there's a "who stays where" at the wiki
15:35 tadzik I think sergot_ found some chaep one nearby too
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15:41 daxim tadzik, where's the preconf beet-up at?
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15:43 tadzik daxim: http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Metro+Politechn​ika,+Warsaw,+Poland&daddr=Znajomi+Znajomych+s​.c.,+Wilcza,+Warsaw,+Poland&hl=en&sll=37.​0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.490703,106.962891&amp​;geocode=FRPQHAMdDKxAASllKIKz6MweRzGoOZ4Z8ZgNkw%3​BFWbfHAMdo5dAASEHYPdBYMzSVimZwmsz7MweRzEHYPdBYMzS​Vg&oq=Znajomi+Z&t=m&mra=ls&z=17
15:43 tadzik uhh
15:43 tadzik well, linked from
15:43 tadzik http://act.yapc.eu/plpw2013/news/1019
15:43 tadzik also on http://plpw2013.pl/
15:44 tadzik please sign up on the wiki if you're coming
15:44 tadzik oh, you did :) daxim++
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15:50 jnthn evening, #perl6
15:50 tadzik evening jnthn
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15:57 masak evening, #perl6!
16:01 FROGGS o/
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16:43 masak lizmat: I'm fine with adding :vk immediately.
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16:51 TimToady .oO(how do you spell .p backwards?)
16:52 TimToady er, :p even
16:52 geekosaur ... :q ?
16:52 FROGGS q:
16:54 masak r: say (1 => 2).reverse
16:54 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
16:54 masak hrm.
16:55 FROGGS r: say @(1 => 2).reverse
16:55 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
16:55 FROGGS :/
16:55 GlitchMr masak, I think you can unban me now. I think my connection is now more stable.
16:56 masak GlitchMr: will do.
16:56 GlitchMr (at least I hope so)
16:56 masak GlitchMr: done.
16:58 FROGGS argh!, "for my $x (1) { ... }" is driving me nuts, it declares $x outside of for's body -.-
16:58 FROGGS pointy blocks make so much more sense
16:58 GlitchMr Huh?
16:59 GlitchMr I though that my $x is only visible inside for {} here
16:59 FROGGS v5 that is
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17:00 GlitchMr In Perl 5, if I remember correctly "for" variable can be only "local" or "my".
17:00 GlitchMr So it never should declare it outside of for's body.
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17:02 FROGGS GlitchMr: I'm talking about the v5-module I am writing for rakudo
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17:02 FROGGS so, your expectation is totally right, my module is just misbehaving
17:03 TimToady r: say int.^nativesize
17:03 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:03 TimToady um...
17:03 FROGGS hehe
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17:03 FROGGS NOT ENOUGH!!
17:03 GlitchMr Native size of int is 0.
17:03 TimToady r: say int8.^nativesize
17:03 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«8␤»
17:03 GlitchMr Makes sense.
17:03 FROGGS GlitchMr: how can it possibly be zero?
17:03 TimToady you'd think it would know how big an int is...
17:03 GlitchMr That's simple, it contains nothing.
17:04 jnthn TimToady: I suspect 0 is being used to indicate "machine specific"
17:04 FROGGS I am thinking of an C-type int when reading 'native int'
17:04 jnthn TimToady: That is, "we didn't set it to anything" :)
17:05 FROGGS jnthn: the vm should be queried to set that
17:05 TimToady well, then how do I find out what that machine-specific size is?  the size of int8 is rather boring
17:05 FROGGS use Config? :P
17:05 * TimToady is trying to write the RC entry for getting variable sizes
17:06 jnthn TimToady: Hm, point. It simply wasn't designed for conveying that.
17:06 TimToady r: class { has int $.foo }; # how does this know the size?
17:06 camelia rakudo 267c54:  ( no output )
17:06 jnthn Such is the wonder of having a MOP. Stuff you added to get stuff done is suddenly user visible :)
17:07 TimToady well, just wait till I start working on the entry for *setting* a variable's size :)
17:07 FROGGS >.<
17:07 jnthn TimToady: Well, the "nativesize" thing is conveyed to the REPR, which is a low-level thing that in the Parrot case just does sizeof(INTVAL) these days.
17:08 jnthn TimToady: The sized stuff is hardly "done" in any sense. What's done is there to be useful to NativeCall.
17:08 jnthn Though I think arnsholt++ got some of the P6opaque bits righter too
17:12 FROGGS about my "for my $x (1) { ... }"-problem, I guess I should call check_variable() within sblock, and set a dynvar in token for
17:22 jnthn dinner, bbl
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17:50 dalek perl6-roast-data: ba9d001 | coke++ | / (4 files):
17:50 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:50 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/ba9d001d8d
17:51 [Coke] rakudo still failing (18 days)
18:02 TimToady r: say int64.^nativesize;
18:02 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«64␤»
18:02 TimToady r: my int64 $long-long; say $long-long.^nativesize
18:02 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'nativesize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤  in block  at /tmp/x42SMusW2B:1␤␤»
18:05 TimToady r: my int64 @long-long; say @long-long.of.^nativesize
18:05 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/E7rHzFav63:1␤␤»
18:05 TimToady o_O
18:06 flussence r: my int64 %longlong; say %longlong.of.^nativesize
18:06 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/OxZnR0JF4v:1␤␤»
18:06 flussence that's weird, it says «of class 'Int'» on my end...
18:07 TimToady er, .of should be *returning* Int, not looking up .of in Int
18:07 TimToady well, it should be returning int64, but that's a different issue
18:07 lizmat hi #perl6!   (back from cycling + dinner)
18:08 lizmat masak: unless @TimToady disagrees, I will implement :vk
18:08 TimToady are we getting a double call to .of.of somehow?
18:09 lizmat and update the spec accordingly :-)
18:09 TimToady or is it not finding .^nativesize in type Int and emitting a bogus error message on .of's dispatch instead?
18:09 TimToady r: my Int @long-long; say @long-long.of.^nativesize
18:09 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'nativesize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤  in block  at /tmp/dtJB8rEgFy:1␤␤»
18:09 diakopter rn: say (Array[Int].new=[]).WHAT
18:09 TimToady no, that's a diffrent error
18:09 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤  at Builtins.InvokeSub (Niecza.P6any obj, Niecza.Variable[] pos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at Niecza.Kernel.ToComposable (Niecza.STable arg…
18:09 camelia ..rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«(Array+{TypedArray})␤»
18:10 TimToady sigh, they're all typed arrays...
18:10 lizmat and the WHAT doesn't tell what type if it  :-(
18:11 TimToady well, the stringification of it doesn't
18:11 TimToady .WHAT itself is a type object
18:11 [Coke] I would really like to get this rakudo GC issue resolved before the next release.
18:11 lizmat so, is there a way to found out what the type is?  Of a TypedArray or TypedHash
18:11 TimToady r: say (Array[Int].new=[]).WHAT.WHICH
18:11 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«Array+{TypedArray}␤»
18:12 diakopter r: say (Array[Int].new=[])
18:12 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«␤»
18:12 TimToady but yeah, it should oughta mention Int in there somewhere
18:12 [Coke] also, if I"ve pinged you about a modules failure, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look so we can consider a star release this month. (perljam, arnsholt. jnthn, not sure if you can resolve the xavolaj bug or not.)
18:13 [Coke] (sorry about bad spelling, typing blind. ;)
18:14 [Coke] (no failures in rakudo today other than the GC error)
18:17 masak today's autopun spotting: https://twitter.com/HackerNewsO​nion/status/337262936613609472
18:23 dalek specs: 451c4bb | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
18:23 dalek specs: Added spec for :vk subscript adverbial
18:23 dalek specs:
18:23 dalek specs: I assume we will need a .vk method later as well.  Will spec this later unless
18:23 dalek specs: someone beats me to it / tells me not to do it.
18:23 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/451c4bbfc0
18:28 [Coke] why do we need .vk ?
18:28 [Coke] (what is it solving that .kv doesn't?)
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18:29 [Coke] (looks like this is the only place it's in the specs)
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18:31 lizmat [Coke] is not wrong about that
18:32 lizmat it was something that came up the other day, with masak, and since I was working in that part of the neighborhood anyway, and I can also see a use for it in some situations
18:32 lizmat I specced it
18:33 TimToady we can probably come up with a better name than 'nativesize' too, which has both the ill-defined term "native", as well as the overly-generic term "size"
18:33 lizmat TimToady: homesize?
18:33 diakopter can't use bytes?
18:33 TimToady it's *bits*, case proven
18:33 diakopter byteseach?
18:33 diakopter bitseach?
18:33 lizmat natsize
18:34 labster I guess it would be cheaper than .kv.reverse, though .vk would be an easy typo.
18:34 lizmat labster: right now, it would *not* be cheaper, bit it *could*
18:35 TimToady we already know it's native anyway, so just .bits, except that we have several of those measurements to deal with
18:35 [Coke] -1 to adding .vk - looks very reundant compared to .kv
18:35 diakopter TimToady: are you looking for information capacity of the unit, or amount of memory used
18:35 TimToady the bits attached to a type may or may not be the overall size in bits of the type
18:35 TimToady for int64, yes, both are 64, but for complex64, the overall size is 128
18:35 TimToady (in bits)
18:35 diakopter which one are you looking for
18:36 [Coke] I didn't see any serious discussion in the irc logs, mainly a note to add it as a whimsical addition to list::utils
18:37 TimToady maybe .bits returns the base size of the type, and .bytes returns the actual memory footprint, including alignment
18:37 flussence but... Str.bytes
18:38 lizmat [Coke]: i'll halt implementation until we have a consensus  :-)
18:38 TimToady assuming we never want to measure memory footprint as less than a byte, which is a dubious assumption for bit arrays and such
18:38 TimToady flussence: you mean Buf.bytes surely
18:38 TimToady Str doesn't do bytes
18:38 flussence probably, yeah.
18:38 TimToady well, those are the same sized bytes, so it's okay
18:38 flussence oh, that's fine then
18:39 TimToady say int2.^bytes;  #  0.25  :)
18:39 diakopter heh.
18:41 TimToady as one datapoint, I've never felt the need for vk meownself
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18:42 TimToady so I wouldn't necessarily add it just for some kind consistency or completeness
18:43 dalek specs: c33114e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
18:43 dalek specs: Revert "Added spec for :vk subscript adverbial"
18:43 dalek specs:
18:43 dalek specs: This reverts commit 451c4bbfc0dc3b0337392962cbb7e5c57cba7135.
18:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c33114e392
18:44 TimToady does NativeHOW store alignment requirements yet?  doesn't seem like it...
18:44 lizmat that's good enough as a "no" to me  :-)
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18:51 labster okay, since we're in the mood to complain about adding things, does anyone have any opinion on adding IO::Handle.encoding, to read/set file encoding?
18:52 jnthn TimToady: Alignment is a REPR concern, not a meta-object one.
18:52 jnthn TimToady: Desired size is only a meta-object concern in that we tell the meta-object stuff so they can compose the REPR with the right stuff.
18:53 jnthn So unless we think configurable alignment is desirable... :)
18:54 jnthn Which I guess it perhaps is. Hm. :)
18:55 diakopter :alignment('left-drifting')
18:55 masak as another datapoint, I have felt the need for .vk -- namely, in connection with reversing a list of key/value items.
18:56 lizmat masak: [Coke]'s argument is that you can do that with .kv.reverse
18:57 lizmat ah, of course, but *not* as a subscript adverbial in a chain
18:57 lizmat right?
18:57 masak lizmat: .kv.reverse was what I did -- and then I had to give the for loop parameters in the $value, $key order.
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19:00 TimToady okay, initial entry for http://rosettacode.org/wik​i/Variable_size/Get#Perl_6
19:00 timotimo oh, interesting
19:00 timotimo a few days ago i was looking at that and wondered how to do it
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19:05 TimToady jnthn: from a language point of view, repr is hidden behind .HOW, therefore it's a meta-object thing :)
19:06 TimToady but for something like complex64 I'd like some way to query both the 64 and the 128
19:06 TimToady or maybe the 64 bits and the 16 (bytes)
19:06 TimToady whether or not it includes alignment in the latter
19:07 jnthn r: say Int.REPR :P
19:07 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/advqSmzP1v:1â�¤------> [32msay Int.REPR :P[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
19:07 jnthn oops :)
19:07 jnthn r: say Int.REPR # :P
19:07 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«P6opaque␤»
19:07 jnthn Can we make smileys at end of lines ok? ;)
19:07 jnthn TimToady: Will ponder the best way, though maybe we should just make .^bits or something work :)
19:07 TimToady r: say Int.^nativesize;  # I see a .^ there :P
19:07 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'nativesize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤  in block  at /tmp/wVgxufvinY:1␤␤»
19:08 TimToady r: say int.^nativesize;  # I see a .^ there :P
19:08 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:08 jnthn It's only on NativeHOW at present, and it only existed so far to pass the stuff down to the REPR...
19:08 jnthn I can see the use for it serving the role you're after; I'm not immediately sure of the best way to make it happen.
19:09 jnthn (Which is probably just exhaustion :))
19:10 TimToady std: say Int.REPR :P
19:10 camelia std 0336087: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
19:10 TimToady it's already okay :)
19:10 TimToady n: say Int.REPR :P
19:10 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method REPR in type Int␤  at /tmp/bmDWfn5Alo line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home/p…
19:10 dagurval how can I pass on all args to a sub, to another. Like "sub my_print { print @_ };" in perl5?
19:11 dagurval oh, that works in perl6, nevermind :)
19:11 jnthn sub foo(|c) { bar(|c) }
19:11 dagurval ok, thanks!
19:11 TimToady dagurval: don't do it the P5 way or things will get flattened more than you want
19:12 TimToady since P6 depends on binding to decide whether something is in item or list context
19:12 TimToady you want to be as lazy as possible about that decision, and |c gets you that
19:12 dagurval I see
19:12 * lizmat suspects a near autopun
19:13 dagurval perl6 - be as lazy as possible!
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19:13 masak lizmat: TimToady speaks in autopuns most of the time ;)
19:14 masak "We all agree on the necessity of compromise. We just can't agree on when it's necessary to compromise.
19:14 jnthn r: gather { take die "strasse to the left" }
19:14 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«strasse to the left␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 344141 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:150298) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8791)␤called from Sub 'die' pc 36512 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:14284) (src/gen/CORE.setting:578)␤called from Sub 'die' pc 36410 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:1…
19:14 masak " -- Larry Wall :)
19:14 jnthn Hmmm
19:14 jnthn Does anybody have an example handy that produces that nasty coroutine error report?
19:15 * jnthn may be able to figure out a fix for the release...
19:15 masak r: die "Bart Simpson"; # means "The Bart Simpson"
19:15 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«Bart Simpson␤  in block  at /tmp/yc9VIHz01N:1␤␤»
19:15 lizmat not "der" ?
19:15 jnthn hm, or maybe it's in RT...
19:16 lizmat jnthn: fwiw, I only saw that error when I messed something up in the core setting
19:16 timotimo lizmat: the joke requires the german part of that to be wrong
19:16 lizmat my impression is that it is an error message going wrong
19:16 masak lizmat: it's a wrong error hiding a real error, yes.
19:16 masak that much is known.
19:17 jnthn lizmat: I think I've seen it on the channel
19:17 masak jnthn: ask and RT answers: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=117763
19:18 masak r: sub p(*@l) { gather { if @l == 1 { take @l } else { @l.shift; for p(@l) -> @p {} } } }; say p 1..4
19:18 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102623 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46363) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8977)␤called from Sub '' pc 481 ((file unknown):269) (/tmp/T9e7Sa9Ebm:1)␤called from Sub '' pc 281061 (src/gen/COR…
19:18 masak there we go.
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19:19 jnthn tack
19:19 masak r: sub p($n) { gather { if $n == 1 { take $n } else { $n--; for p($n) -> @p {} } } }; say p 4
19:19 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102623 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46363) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8977)␤called from Sub 'postfix:<-->' pc 72826 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:32060) (src/gen/CORE.setting:3307)␤called …
19:19 masak slightly simpler; don't know why I didn't think of that when I golf'd it.
19:20 masak doesn't require the array.
19:20 masak r: sub p($n) { gather { if $n == 1 { take $n } else { $n--; for p($n) -> @p {} } } }; say p 2
19:20 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102623 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46363) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8977)␤called from Sub 'postfix:<-->' pc 72826 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:32060) (src/gen/CORE.setting:3307)␤called …
19:20 masak r: sub p($n) { gather { if $n == 1 { take $n } else { $n--; for p($n) -> @p {} } } }; say p 1
19:20 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:20 masak requires the recursion, though.
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19:24 masak r: say gather { if 2 == 1 { take 1 } else { gather { take 1 } } }
19:24 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«␤»
19:25 masak r: say gather { if 2 == 1 { take 1 } else { take gather { take 1 } } }
19:25 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:28 timotimo does every instance of any class also carry around an instance of ClassHOW?
19:28 timotimo s/ an / their own /
19:28 jnthn There's an instance of ClassHOW per class declaration.
19:28 jnthn Not per instance of that class.
19:29 timotimo so does ClassHOW.new create an instance of the class it describes?
19:29 jnthn No
19:29 timotimo then what's the need for new_type?
19:29 jnthn it creates a new instance of ClassHOW, which is not very useful.
19:29 jnthn typically you want new_type, which does call ClassHOW.new
19:30 jnthn But instead makes a new type object with the required HOW and REPR.
19:30 timotimo OK
19:30 jnthn We don't actually have a Perl 6 way to express what nqp::newtype does yet.
19:30 timotimo (i don't even know what that does)
19:30 masak timotimo: each ordinary instance carrying around its own unique ClassHOW instance would defeat the purpose of ClassHOW objects, which is to represent an entire class.
19:31 timotimo makes sense
19:31 timotimo .o(still idly wondering why rakudo on parrot swallows as much RAM as it does for even the smallest programs)
19:32 masak better check whether each instance doesn't have its own ClassHOW instance after all :P
19:33 timotimo :D
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19:37 timotimo how many differences are there between perl6 -e '...' and running a file with the same contents?
19:38 jnthn_ joined #perl6
19:38 dagurval r: "/tmp/asdf".IO.open.say("hello")
19:38 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«IO PMC FileHandle is not in mode 2␤  in method print at src/gen/CORE.setting:11143␤  in method print at src/gen/CORE.setting:11141␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11154␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:889␤  in block  at /tmp/VB8Pty1H5_:1␤␤»…
19:38 dagurval what's "mode 2"?
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19:38 lizmat propably low level access level presentation?
19:39 telex joined #perl6
19:39 FROGGS timotimo: there is no difference, is there?
19:39 snuffles joined #perl6
19:39 timotimo there shouldn't be
19:39 timotimo but there should also not be much of a difference between pasting code line-by-line into the repl and running it from a file ;)
19:40 dagurval r: "/tmp/asdf".IO.open(:w).say("hello")
19:40 camelia rakudo 267c54:  ( no output )
19:40 FROGGS well, the repl does extra stuff, no?
19:40 dagurval That worked :)
19:41 atrodo_ joined #perl6
19:42 dalek nqp: 9e31a04 | jonathan++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/sixmodelobject.c:
19:42 dalek nqp: Fix reporting of errors in gather/take.
19:42 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9e31a04a72
19:43 timotimo FROGGS: indeed, but it behaves wrong in some cases, like resetting $! in between lines
19:44 Celelibi_ joined #perl6
19:45 FROGGS yeah
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19:46 timotimo in the specs it says "WHY         (reserved for documentation?)", but in the current implementation, that's already what happens. should i describe how rakudo does it currently as the spec?
19:46 dukelet0 o/
19:46 FROGGS I mean, I never use the repl but have heard that it evaluates lines because it cant really know when a statement ends
19:47 masak timotimo: yes, please.
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19:53 dalek roast: 8fa9b8c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-hash/delete-adverb.t:
19:53 dalek roast: Added tests for single key combined adverbials
19:53 dalek roast:
19:53 dalek roast: Specifically, :delete with :p, :kv, :k, :v.  Slices and whatever tests will
19:53 dalek roast: follow.
19:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8fa9b8ccba
19:55 masak lizmat++
19:57 timotimo hm, how would a local variable be decorated with a .WHY? is that even possible?
19:58 masak timotimo: just pod it?
19:59 masak the declaration, that is.
19:59 timotimo er, wrong question. how do i read that out with introspection?
20:01 flussence $var.^WHY ?
20:01 flussence wait, no
20:01 flussence something like that though
20:02 timotimo i think that would have to at least be $var.^WHY($var)
20:02 timotimo because all vars of the same type share the object that responds to .^ calls (as i learn a few hours ago)
20:03 dalek specs: 2d423f2 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S12-objects.pod:
20:03 dalek specs: .WHY is specced now.
20:03 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/2d423f2f1f
20:03 jnthn $var.VAR.WHY I guess
20:04 lizmat calling it an early night: part 1 of a long ride to Warsaw tomorrow, part 2 the day after
20:04 flussence r: https://gist.github.com/flussence/5630469
20:04 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«(Any)␤bar␤»
20:04 flussence that seems broken to me.
20:05 lizmat see you at PLPW, those of you who will be there!
20:05 timotimo flussence: but that would go to Int.WHY anyway, shouldn't it?
20:06 jnthn lizmat: Safe travels, see you at the pre-conf piwo :)
20:06 lizmat piwo?
20:07 jnthn lizmat: Most important word in Polish :)
20:07 lizmat bar?
20:07 jnthn beer :)
20:08 lizmat close but no cigar, I guess  (which is good because I don't smoke)
20:08 lizmat afk&
20:08 jnthn o/
20:08 timotimo when's the compiler release supposed to happen?
20:09 FROGGS tomorrow
20:09 timotimo oh my
20:09 timotimo that's soon
20:09 FROGGS :o)
20:11 dalek nqp: 3a9be10 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
20:11 dalek nqp: iEnsure NQP JVM bulids in master.
20:11 dalek nqp:
20:11 dalek nqp: So the first release with it actually has it building.
20:11 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3a9be10a33
20:11 jnthn oops
20:11 jnthn .oO( Not sure if Apple fanboy or incompetent vi user... )
20:12 FROGGS too much piwo?
20:12 jnthn Not had any tonight
20:12 FROGGS me neither, I've got a cold ó.ò
20:13 * jnthn has sleep deprevation...
20:13 jnthn And general ill feeling
20:13 jnthn Hopefully I'll be better for plpw
20:13 diakopter jnthn: go to bed :)
20:13 FROGGS yeah :/
20:13 FROGGS doesnt help if you cant sleep
20:14 FROGGS that is my problem right now, lying around there for hours, then sleep from two to six
20:14 jnthn diakopter: yes, going to bed hasn't been the problem...it's failing to sleep when I get there, and an inability to compensate my sleeping in due to teaching.
20:15 * masak has sleep depravation
20:15 * jnthn was slightly horrified to arrive around 8:30am this morning, expecting to start at 9:00, and find a room full of pepole expecting him to tell them insightful stuff...
20:15 timotimo were you late or were they too early?
20:16 timotimo well, it was probably a miscommunication in any case
20:16 jnthn Mostly, mismatched/non-communicated assumptions :)
20:16 jnthn Teaching assignments here normally start at 9:30 at the teaching centers on the first day, or 9:00 or so when I head on site :)
20:17 jnthn Anyway, I was all prepared, just had less time to reduce the blood level in my coffeestream...
20:18 timotimo hehehe
20:19 sorear o/
20:19 FROGGS o/
20:19 jnthn o/ sorear
20:19 timotimo currently looking a bit at the grammar for Pod docs attachment. it seems the right place for making my $foo work with POD blocks is variable_declarator; so i'll have to look if there's a $*DECLARATOR_DOCS (from the line before) and set a $*DOCEE (for when the Pod is in the same line further to the right)
20:19 timotimo is that about right
20:20 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 4332170 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
20:20 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
20:20 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/4332170cf6
20:20 [Coke] rakudo star: modules/perl6-File-Tools is passing again
20:20 jnthn OK, I got the two NQP patches in that I wanted to pre-monthly-release :)
20:23 jnthn oh, 15:35
20:23 jnthn uh, ww
20:27 timotimo [Coke]: i cannot reproduce the dash-e.t failures locally
20:29 timotimo ah, i see. "XXX var traits NYI"
20:29 bowtie joined #perl6
20:29 timotimo probably more work than just a little bit
20:32 tadzik oh, huh
20:32 tadzik so I'm not the only one with a practical narcolepsy these days?
20:32 tadzik I just fell asleep for like, 4 hours
20:32 sjn joined #perl6
20:33 timotimo i have something similar, but combined with not being able to sleep at night
20:33 tadzik that I had on monday
20:33 tadzik good. I thought there's something wrong with me, but now at least I'm not alone with my misery :)
20:34 FROGGS ó.ò
20:34 FROGGS must be this channel
20:34 sorear impractical narcolepsy
20:35 timotimo agreed.
20:38 REPLeffect joined #perl6
20:39 dalek roast: 0485c59 | dagurval++ | S32-io/spurt.t:
20:39 dalek roast: More spurt tests, including (to be?) spurt method in IO::Handle
20:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0485c592ee
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21:51 dalek v5: 59ca6bd | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
21:51 dalek v5: fudged tests (modules like Config.pm are not in ../lib)
21:51 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/59ca6bde31
21:51 dalek v5: 76db4d2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
21:51 dalek v5: fixed P5Str for Array/List
21:51 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/76db4d2e5f
21:51 dalek v5: 6f80ba5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
21:51 dalek v5: iterator in for-loops is declared in for's body
21:51 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/6f80ba599e
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22:08 timotimo &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf);  -  doesn't this actually need a : after assuming?
22:09 FROGGS yes think so
22:10 timotimo r: my &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf);
22:10 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable '$text' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/4eSpo_vzJS:1â�¤------> [32m&textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text[33mâ��[31m):len(Inf);[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
22:10 timotimo r: my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf);
22:10 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable '$text' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/jVB0J9BsAZ:1â�¤------> [32mtextfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text[33mâ��[31m):len(Inf);[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
22:10 timotimo oh, yeah
22:10 timotimo r: my $test = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf);
22:10 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable '$text' is not declared. Did you mean '$test'?â�¤at /tmp/cv3O1J0WVV:1â�¤------> [32mtextfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text[33mâ��[31m):len(Inf);[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
22:10 timotimo r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf);
22:11 camelia rakudo 267c54:  ( no output )
22:11 timotimo r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf);
22:11 camelia rakudo 267c54:  ( no output )
22:11 timotimo apparently it works. maybe because it only has colonpair adverb syntax after it?
22:14 FROGGS r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf); textfrom("abc", 2)
22:14 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«2 unexpected named parameters passed (str, len)␤  in sub substr at src/gen/CORE.setting:2551␤  in sub CURRIED at src/gen/CORE.setting:2069␤  in block  at /tmp/EeF9hfgXJh:1␤␤»
22:14 FROGGS r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf); textfrom("abc", 2)
22:14 camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'str' passed␤  in sub substr at src/gen/CORE.setting:2551␤  in sub CURRIED at src/gen/CORE.setting:2069␤  in block  at /tmp/GpiSsqCdp3:1␤␤»
22:14 FROGGS it is not the same
22:15 timotimo then what is it?
22:15 FROGGS I#m not sure
22:17 masak 'night, #perl6
22:17 tgt joined #perl6
22:18 lue "That is, if you pass <a b> as an argument, it will bind as a single positional or slice item, but two slurpy items." (S02:3493) Is it just me or is that contradictory?
22:18 lue good ♞ masak o/
22:19 dalek v5: 07924e6 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
22:19 dalek v5: make adhoc declared variables our-scoped
22:19 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/07924e6985
22:19 dalek v5: fa15468 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
22:19 dalek v5: add infix &&=, += and *=
22:19 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/fa15468df0
22:28 lue (I believe I understand that sentence now; it was just confusing wording)
22:31 FROGGS lue: then maybe fix it
22:31 * lue does so
22:33 timotimo FROGGS: are you targetting any specific cpan module at the moment?
22:34 maximone joined #perl6
22:37 maximone I have a problem.... when I install a module like NCurses or NativeCall I have always errors on t/03-siple-returns.t:
22:37 maximone current instr.: '' pc 3132 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4​.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda.pir:1282) (lib/Panda.pm:87) called from Sub 'throw' pc 333436 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:149675) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9303) called from Sub 'die' pc 35346 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:14008) (src/gen/CORE.setting:578) called from Sub '' pc 494 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parro​t/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Te
22:37 xilo joined #perl6
22:38 maximone :9) called from Sub 'withp6lib' pc 771 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10​.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Common.pir:345)
22:38 maximone (lib/Panda/Common.pm:31) called from Sub '' pc 352 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10​.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Tester.pir:205) (lib/Panda/Tester.pm:7)
22:38 maximone called from Sub '' pc 290 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10​.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Tester.pir:175) (lib/Panda/Tester.pm:6) called from Sub 'indir' pc 389 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10​.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Common.pir:224) (lib/Panda/Common.pm:13)
22:38 maximone etc etc..
22:38 maximone How can I resolve this?
22:39 dalek specs: 465ec29 | lue++ | S02-bits.pod:
22:39 dalek specs: [S02] Clarified quotewords being bound to parameters
22:39 dalek specs:
22:39 dalek specs: The sentence on how a quoteword is flattened or sliced when bound to a
22:39 dalek specs: parameter is a bit clearer now.
22:39 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/465ec29646
22:41 maximone So I must download a new version of rakudo star? Sorry but I'm a newbie
22:46 tadzik maximone: which version is that/
22:46 tadzik also, please don't paste on a channel; use gist.github.com for example
22:46 tadzik it's always safer to tray the latest version
22:48 maximone ok thank you for the advice. I wil use github and download the latest version.
22:49 tadzik is there any reason why you were using an older one?
22:50 * lue guesses package manager, judging by the use of /opt
22:51 maximone I downloaded it from the rakudo website. The latest post was that the version 2013.2.1 was the latest, "useful and usable" version
22:53 geekosaur I think that may be it; they're still clearing up some build issues before releasing an updated one
22:56 maximone The post was in 24/02/2013
22:56 timotimo maximone: you missed to paste the actual error
22:57 maximone tadzik said me to not paste. I will use gist.github.com. When I will find how to use it. I've never use it.
22:57 timotimo just copy the text in there and click "create public gist" or "...secret..." on the bottom right
22:58 timotimo then copy-paste the url from the address bar
22:58 maximone Ok
23:01 maximone timotimo: the address is https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5631621
23:02 timotimo ah, uh-huh
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23:03 timotimo i wonder why it fails
23:04 timotimo but if you're willing to try to go on, why not panda install NativeCall --no-tests or whatever the flag may be
23:05 maximone Ok, but is there a log file for the errors in panda?
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 1a9b0da | dagurval++ | src/core/IO.pm:
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Added slurp(IO::Handle... support
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1a9b0da7e0
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: e4cb829 | dagurval++ | t/spectest.data:
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: added S32-io/spurt.t
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e4cb829151
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 5fa040f | dagurval++ | src/core/IO.pm:
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Moved spurt into methods in IO::Handle
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5fa040fb7b
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: a50c2ef | (Brent Laabs)++ | / (2 files):
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #157 from dagurval/IO-spurt
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom:
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Added spurt(IO::Handle... support
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a50c2ef76f
23:08 timotimo i don't think there is, but you can manually clone the repository (it's on github.com/jnthn/zavolaj) and run the tests yourself by just running perl6 t/blah.t
23:09 timotimo big sigh, i wish proper EXPORT sub support would make it into this compiler release
23:10 maximone Thank you timotimo I will try
23:10 arlinius joined #perl6
23:12 Tene timotimo: s/wish/will write patches adding/
23:12 timotimo Tene: it's *almost* there, but i have no idea why it doesn't work properly
23:13 timotimo that's why my ADT module can't even hope to get into the Star distribution
23:17 berekuk joined #perl6
23:17 jerome__ joined #perl6
23:34 gdey joined #perl6
23:39 japhb_ \o/  # nqp-jvm works for me on nqp/master!
23:39 tadzik woo :)
23:39 tadzik is rak-jvm-support merged?
23:39 japhb_ jnthn++ for 3a9be10a
23:40 tadzik iEnsure :)
23:40 japhb_ tadzik, I don't think so; I think it was just that one commit
23:41 tadzik hm
23:41 tadzik g diff rak-jvm-support..master | wc -l
23:41 tadzik 135361
23:41 tadzik yeah, not yet :)
23:41 japhb_ tadzik, aside from refactoring, is there anything from a user perspective to be aware of WRT the panda changes merged in the last week or so?
23:42 tadzik japhb_: there shouldn't be
23:42 japhb_ OK cool.
23:42 tadzik I hope there are no user-visible changes
23:42 tadzik maybe something regarding messages printed out and dependency resolution
23:42 tadzik but nothing significant
23:42 gdey joined #perl6
23:42 japhb_ Has anything changed about module compiling/loading/handling in Rakudo in the last few weeks?
23:42 gdey joined #perl6
23:43 japhb_ What changed about dependency resolution?  Was it just the part about only considering .pm[6] files?
23:44 tadzik well, there was a bug recently, that if A depended on B and C, and both B and C depended on D, then D would get installed twice
23:44 tadzik or something like this
23:44 japhb_ Oh heh, gotcha.
23:44 tadzik I made panda figure out all the necessary deps upfront and make sure they're not redundant
23:45 sdo joined #perl6
23:45 sdo hello
23:46 sorear hello
23:47 timotimo good day
23:47 sdo in perl 6 I have an array s.a my @a="1"=>1,"b b"=>3; and I print say @a>>.key ; say @a>>.keys; I have the same output. Is there a difference between .key and .keys   ?
23:48 sdo sorear and timotimo hello
23:48 timotimo The .keys method also returns the keys of all existing elements. For a multidimensional array each key is a list containing one value for each dimension. # i'll just paste from the spec
23:50 timotimo .key is apparently a method for Enum and Pair and friends
23:50 timotimo so i suppose the >>.keys would evaluate for the whole array and the >>.key for each entry in the array
23:51 flussence no, >>.keys would just typecast each element of the array to a list and then call List.keys on it.
23:52 timotimo ah, that could be, too.
23:53 timotimo r: my @a = "1"=>1, "b b"=>3; @a>>.keys.gist.say;
23:53 camelia rakudo a50c2e: OUTPUT«1 b b␤»
23:53 timotimo r: my @a = "1"=>1, "b b"=>3; @a>>.keys.perl.say;
23:53 camelia rakudo a50c2e: OUTPUT«(("1",).list, ("b b",).list)␤»
23:53 timotimo indeed you were right.

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