Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-05-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:58 pmichaud FROGGS, jnthn:  I agree with jnthn++ .  The handling of dynamically quantified expressions has always been meant to be handled outside of the standard quantifier node type.
00:59 pmichaud especially since the thing that follows ** is to be a closure.
01:01 pmichaud if it's possible to cleanly make the range dynamic via the existing rxtype node, I'll be okay with that, but more likely it wants a specialized node type.
01:02 pmichaud the other reason for making it a specialized node type is to more cleanly distinguish declarative versus procedural quantifiers.
01:05 pmichaud the other other reason for making it a specialized node type is so that one can smart-match the number of repetitions against the value returned from the closure.  Although p6 only allows Int and Range to be returned from a closure now, at one time it was allowed to be lists, and we might want that capability again someday  (e.g.,   \d ** { @primes } )
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01:45 timotimo is there a way to figure out if there's a character ready for reading in $*IN without blocking?
01:47 dalek perl6-roast-data: 62cd9c7 | coke++ | / (4 files):
01:47 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
01:47 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/62cd9c767e
01:47 sorear not reliably
01:47 timotimo okay, how about "sort-of-kind-of"? how would i do that? in rakudo?
01:47 sorear select and FIONREAD provide advisory notification of data, but you're supposed to set file descriptors to nonblocking in case of false alarm
01:48 timotimo can i even do that to $*IN etcetc?
01:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: a665867 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
01:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/a6658678f9
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01:56 * [Coke] wonders if there is any need for ^^ with colomon's new thing.
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02:16 [Coke] the rakudo failures on feather in S02-bool.t are a result of the iospec merge.
02:16 [Coke] er, S02-types/bool.t
02:17 labster Yeah, we know.
02:18 [Coke] ... ok. if someone already did a bisect, putting that on the ticket would have saved me several hours.
02:18 labster But what FROGGS and I are trying to figure out is why these two lines in canonpath cause the failure: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/0d1a9f4967a2c4d49606
02:19 dalek perl6-bench: 8dad53a | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
02:19 dalek perl6-bench: Several miscellaneous bugfixes in bench
02:19 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/8dad53a82e
02:20 [Coke] thanks for trying to track it down.
02:20 [Coke] https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=117957 if you figure it out.
02:22 labster Sorry, I fell asleep last night while we were talking about it.
02:29 [Coke] heh. I fell asleep in the middle of my bisect and just got back from a trip across 3 states to finish it up. ;)
02:40 pmichaud which two lines in canonpath ?
02:42 labster They're two regex substitutions, triggered when $*TMPDIR is created.  They're the two lines he's commented out in the gist above, 9 and 12
02:44 pmichaud I'm not sure those lines are the actual cause of the failure.
02:44 pmichaud maybe I should read prior backlog on the topic, though.
02:45 labster You should ask FROGGS, as he was the one doing the bisect.
02:45 * labster still doesn't have a feather account.
02:46 * pmichaud reads backlog
02:46 labster start here: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-05-26#i_7116874
02:48 pmichaud this bug feels like a GC or pointer problem of some sort, and commenting out those lines changes things just enough to cause the bug to appear somewhere else.
02:49 pmichaud (or disappear)
02:49 pmichaud i.e., a heisenbug
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02:52 pmichaud however, just looking at the code....
02:52 pmichaud $path ~~ s:g { '/'+ }              = '/';     # xx////xx  -> xx/xx
02:52 pmichaud seems horribly inefficient.
02:58 timotimo i made an amazing console program that will, given a time in minutes, fill up one line of the terminal using eigths of blocks from the unicode "block elements" chart
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03:14 timotimo apparently i can only get the terminal width via %*ENV on gnome-terminal, which b0rks if i have only one line :(
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03:33 labster oh, that is inefficient.  It's a port of File::Spec, so blame perl 5 :o)
03:36 labster maybe the problem will disappear on the JVM ... and I just use System.getProperty("io.tmpdir") instead
03:37 labster timotimo: just put a 1; at the end of your modules
03:37 timotimo labster: huh?
03:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 25a0b3f | pmichaud++ | src/core/IO/Spec/Unix.pm:
03:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Make IO::Spec::Unix.canonpath more efficient.
03:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/25a0b3f3d9
03:38 labster it sounds like a oneliner program is not working, so add a "1;" on it like perl 5 modules (as a joke)?
03:39 timotimo oh, that's funny
03:39 timotimo sorry, i don't know any perl5
03:40 labster Yeah, that was a misfeature of Perl 5, where a module had to return true to load correctly, so everyone puts a 1; at the bottom of the file.
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04:06 timotimo whoa. that was a BAD idea.
04:07 timotimo r: for 1, 2, 3, 4 { when * > 3 { say "a" }; when * <= 3 { say "b" }; KEEP { say "oh my" } }
04:07 camelia rakudo 0e206e: OUTPUT«b␤oh my␤b␤oh my␤b␤oh my␤a␤oh my␤»
04:07 timotimo on my machine similar code caused a major meltdown
04:07 timotimo r: for 1, 2, 3, 4 -> $_ { when * > 3 { say "a" }; when * <= 3 { say "b" }; KEEP { say "oh my" } }
04:07 camelia rakudo 0e206e: OUTPUT«b␤oh my␤b␤oh my␤b␤oh my␤a␤oh my␤»
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04:07 timotimo r: for 1, 2, 3, 4 -> $_ { when * > 3 { say "a" }; default { say "b" }; KEEP { say "oh my" } }
04:07 camelia rakudo 0e206e: OUTPUT«b␤oh my␤b␤oh my␤b␤oh my␤a␤oh my␤»
04:07 timotimo huh.
04:12 pmichaud ...feather only has 1.2GB memory?
04:12 pmichaud or am I reading top(1) and free(1) incorrectly?
04:15 pmichaud and something is causing p6eval to churn on feather right now.
04:15 pmichaud (maybe it always does that, but it's currently eating up a lot of CPU)
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04:26 timotimo what do i have to write into my Foo module so that anyone who has use Foo will get the same result is if they also said "use Term::ANSIColor"?
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04:38 [Coke] fwiw, pmichaud's last commit doesn't fix RT #117957 (not that it was meant to)
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04:41 [Coke] once a branch is removed from rakudo/rakudo, can we get it back?
04:41 diakopter if someone still has it locally I suppose it could be re-pushed
04:42 [Coke] git-- svn++
04:42 timotimo [Coke]: hg can do it, too, because branches are versioned along with the code (which i find SUPER weird)
04:54 colomon [Coke]: I'm not testing anything to do with roast, just testing how the modules work.
04:55 colomon [Coke]: might be able to extend it to roast, I dunno.  Same sort of idea, but not identical.
05:10 pmichaud timotimo: I suspect it's NYI in Rakudo, but S11 says that   "use Term::ANSIColor :EXPORT;"  will both import Term::ANSIColor and export its symbols
05:10 pmichaud http://perlcabal.org/syn/S11.html#Compile-time_Importation
05:11 timotimo cool, thanks
05:11 timotimo yeah, Error while importing from 'Term::ANSIColor': no such tag 'EXPORT'
05:12 pmichaud feel free to file a ticket :)
05:12 timotimo enh, it's not that important really
05:12 pmichaud or write a test case for it :)
05:12 pmichaud or both :)
05:12 pmichaud time for bed here; bbl
05:13 timotimo i'm staying up to give my sleep-arythm a kick in the bum
05:13 moritz \o
05:20 timotimo how would people like Term::Xterm256Color?
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05:48 timotimo hm, nowadays, can i match individual thingies from the % operator?
05:48 timotimo r: say "foo,bar.baz!" ~~ /(...) % (.)/;
05:48 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/vHXk9rDWvz:1�------> [32msay "foo,bar.baz!" ~~ /(...) [33m�[31m% (.)/;[0m�Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'�at /tmp/vHXk9rDWvz:1�------> …
05:48 timotimo r: say "foo,bar.baz!" ~~ /(...)+ % (.)/;
05:48 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«「foo,bar.baz」␤ 0 => 「foo」␤ 1 => 「,」␤ 0 => 「bar」␤ 1 => 「.」␤ 0 => 「baz」␤␤»
05:48 timotimo ooooh, that's excellent! :)
05:48 timotimo hm, now i realise i don't even need that >_<
05:50 FROGGS_ *g*
06:00 timotimo i may just be too tired, but i'm failing to make a simple bracket and comma coloring thingie with grammars
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06:29 dalek perl6-bench: a3e6fb9 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: html_plot improvements: fix title; improve plot highlight contents to include series name and improve readability a bit
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/a3e6fb966e
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07:45 tadzik good morning #perl6
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08:03 timotimo ===SORRY!===
08:03 timotimo Null PMC access in find_method('Stringy')
08:03 timotimo i'm good at this! :)
08:11 labster good work timo
08:12 timotimo i think it came from creating a character class from braces, brackets and all other types of parenthesizing characters
08:12 timotimo is there a cleverer way to .comb alternating chunks of many non-brace-characters and single brace characters?
08:13 timotimo than to do <-[,(<[{}]>)]>*||<[,(<[{}]>)]> ?
08:17 timotimo nope, actually it's this
08:17 timotimo constant @twofiddy is export := "\e[38;5;{$_}m" for ^256;
08:18 timotimo (missing some paranthesis)
08:18 moritz use = not :=
08:19 moritz and maybe precedence is wrong
08:19 moritz is export = ("\e[38;5;{$_}m" for ^256).eager;
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08:22 timotimo but do i want to do it eagerly?
08:22 timotimo i'm likely to only access the first 5
08:24 moritz maybe not eager
08:24 moritz but you'll still need the parens
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08:28 leontopod is Perl 6 1.0 out yet?
08:29 tadzik we have 2013.05 out
08:29 itz__ leontopod: at Christmas
08:30 FROGGS_ leontopod: the specification has no '1.0' yet so there is not implementation with the version '1.0'
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08:40 * moritz wonders if people also constantly ask if java 9 1.0 is out
08:41 leontopod I'm just trolling =)
08:41 leontopod how is everyone?
08:42 tadzik heh
08:42 Teratogen was kicked by moritz: Teratogen
08:42 moritz I'm just trolling =)
08:43 tadzik I think I've seen him before, maybe he really was just kidding?
08:43 japhb_ joined #perl6
08:43 moritz yes, I've seen him before, and it was never funny before, and never productive
08:44 arnsholt Yeah, Teratogen is a name I've seen before I think
08:45 daggeur joined #perl6
08:46 sorear but which logs?
08:46 sorear .privacy
08:46 yoleaux sorear: This channel is public. When I am asked when I last saw you, I may repeat things you say and what time it was when you said them.
08:46 sorear .help
08:46 yoleaux sorear: I'm yoleaux. Type .commands to see what I can do, or see http://dpk.io/yoleaux for a quick guide.
08:47 moritz sorear: I know that irclog.perlgeek.de and collabti respect [off] lines; I know it's not 100% private
08:47 arnsholt sorear: The ones linked in the /topic, obviously
08:47 sorear I thought yoleaux logged as well as keeping .seen
08:48 tadzik you only log once
08:48 moritz sorear: but probably not everything, just last line + timestamp per nick
08:48 sorear .private-prefix [off]
08:48 yoleaux sorear: Sorry, this command is admin-only.
08:48 moritz .private-prefix
08:48 yoleaux moritz: Sorry, this command is admin-only.
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09:08 timotimo oh damn. i can no longer use the debugger, because the first thing it does is generate all 256 xterm-256colors before it does anything else
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09:24 bbkr good morning
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09:37 moritz Teratogen: you are correct.
09:37 moritz Teratogen: just look through http://irclog.perlgeek.de/search.pl?channel=perl6&amp;nick=Teratogen&amp;q= and ask yourself how much you actually contribute to on-topic, useful discussions
09:37 moritz and how much is only trolling and noise
09:38 moritz we're not averse to a bit fun now and then, but if you only contribute noise, we will ban you permantently
09:38 moritz or more precisely, I will ban you permanently.
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09:53 itz__ r: say slurp.WHO
09:53 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
10:10 timotimo moritz: can you tell why constant @twofiddy is export := ("\e[38;5;{$_}m" for ^256); is eagerly evaluated at startup time?
10:11 moritz timotimo: is it? how can you tell?
10:12 timotimo it may be wrong; just what rakudo-debugger shows
10:12 moritz well, maybe rakudo-debugger tries to show the list
10:12 moritz and thus triggers eager evaluation
10:12 moritz r: constant @twofiddy is export :=(say "\e[38;5;{$_}m" for ^256); say 42
10:12 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«[38;5;0m�[38;5;1m�[38;5;2m�[38;5;3m�[38;5;4m�[38;5;5m�[38;5;6m�[38;5;7m�[38;5;8m�[38;5;9m�[38;5;10m�[38;5;11m�[38;5;12m�[38;5;13m�[38;5;14m�[38;5;15m�[38;5;16m�[38;5;17m�[38;5;18m�[38;5;19m�[38;5;20m�[38;5;21m�[38;5;22m�[38;5;23m�[38;5;24m�…
10:12 moritz :-)
10:13 moritz ok, it's not just the debugger
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10:16 masak oh hai, #perl6
10:17 sciurius joined #perl6
10:18 tadzik hai masak
10:23 * masak is teaching JavaScript! o/
10:23 tadzik :)
10:24 nwc10 does JavaScript want to be taught?
10:24 masak oh, very much.
10:24 masak it's one of our most taught courses. :)
10:24 * masak realizes too late that nwc10 was probably aiming for a misunderstanding of some kind
10:25 nwc10 yes.
10:26 berekuk joined #perl6
10:26 Teratogen javascript is a pretty good language
10:26 Teratogen java, on the other hand, is horrible.
10:29 Teratogen those two must be java lovers
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10:33 FROGGS_ $ perl6 -e 'use v5; sub test($) { scalar @_ }; say test "a", "b"'  # gives: 1b
10:33 FROGGS_ $ perl6 -e 'use v5; sub test($$) { scalar @_ }; say test "a", "b"' # gives: 2
10:33 FROGGS_ \o/
10:33 tadzik 1b?
10:33 tadzik oh!
10:33 FROGGS_ :o)
10:34 tadzik awesome, FROGGS_!
10:34 FROGGS_ it just can do $ and @ though, and I need to stash that prototype somewhere...
10:35 FROGGS_ and I believe it wont work if the sub is declared after the sub-call is parsed :/
10:35 tadzik Isn't that the same as in Perl 5?
10:36 tadzik iirc in p5 you can't omit () in subcall if the sub is not declared yet
10:36 FROGGS_ perl 5 says that the prototype must be known at compile time
10:36 tadzik ah
10:36 FROGGS_ so I guess it will work if you declare that sub right after its call within the file
10:38 FROGGS_ $ perl -E 'use v5; say test "a", "b"; sub test { scalar @_ };' # nothing
10:38 FROGGS_ $ perl -E 'use v5; sub test { scalar @_ }; say test "a", "b"'  # 2
10:38 FROGGS_ huh
10:38 FROGGS_ cool
10:38 tadzik hm
10:39 tadzik the first says nothing?
10:39 FROGGS_ yepp
10:39 tadzik oh
10:39 tadzik I see
10:39 FROGGS_ same with a $$ prototype
10:39 tadzik I'd be surprised :)
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10:39 FROGGS_ so I don't have to worry about that
10:40 tadzik indeed
10:40 FROGGS_ but it can't be the other way, since the knowledge of the prototype changes the parsing
10:41 FROGGS_ and even p5 doesnt parse again when it hits a prototype to a previously used sub
10:41 konnjuta hi guys I posted a question on perlmonks regarding a perl 6 implemtation of a perl 5 code snippet: any help would be appreciated! http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1035374
10:42 FROGGS_ but now, where do I stash the signature? in $*W in class Longname?
11:07 masak Teratogen: hi. long time no see.
11:08 Teratogen masak! =)
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11:15 moritz http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1035374
11:16 masak ooh, nice.
11:16 masak moritz: did you also consider showing off pipes? ;)
11:16 masak I think Perl 5 programmers might enjoy that...
11:17 moritz masak: I considered it, but then forgot about it
11:21 masak moritz: I have pipes on my mind right now :P
11:21 masak (PLPW participants will know why)
11:22 timotimo oh, so you can override the Lines class lexically and the lines method will use that class?
11:22 bbkr "~.words.reverse" without brackets looks so automagical :)
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11:24 tadzik heh, it's raining in Warsaw again :)
11:24 Teratogen will most perl 5 code run without modification under perl 6?
11:26 moritz masak: I've added a version with feesd
11:26 moritz *feeds
11:29 FROGGS_ Teratogen: basically "no", even when I am working on a perl5 slang for rakudo
11:30 FROGGS_ Teratogen: but there is a "maybe" at the horizon
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11:36 masak moritz++
11:36 nwc10 OK, why is IO::Spec::Unix a port of File::Spec::Unix from before Nov 2006?
11:37 FROGGS_ nwc10: how do you come to that conclusion?
11:38 nwc10 http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blobdiff/d6a9eb89513c8810816fb51d1ad3f1e7f7ad29ff..e9475de8c2ea6600ed3517594b1793ffd3a89f27:/lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm
11:38 nwc10 That commit changed //+ to /{2,}
11:38 nwc10 er, /+
11:38 nwc10 so the thing that pmichaud committed last night mirrors a fix made to File::Spec::Unix in Nov 2006
11:40 FROGGS_ nwc10: that was the initial commit for that piece of code: https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-File-Spec/commit/8606562c1bab5ec929c19f46e7c32da65b447a90
11:41 FROGGS_ and I guess that is just my handwriting and not an old copy one F::S::U
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11:57 timotimo r: my %f = '()<>[]{}'.comb; say "()" ~~ /@(%f.keys,%f.values)**2/
11:57 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«「()」␤␤»
11:58 timotimo how can i match "anything that's not in that list"?
11:58 bbkr tadzik: thanks for help with Curl on hackatons. I found later that CURLOPT_WRITEFUNCTION callback is not meant to be used for capturing data directly but rather to pass-through data between pointers. It needs also CURLOPT_WRITEDATA which is actual output buffer and lack of this one might have caused freeing issues. The simplest C flow is here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2376824/libcurl-http-request-to-save-respond-into-variable-c
11:59 bbkr I'll try to hack it today
12:00 FROGGS_ timotimo: using a cclass like <-[ ... ]> ?
12:00 konnjuta moritz: thanks for the reply to http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1035374
12:00 timotimo i'd like to try that. can i just interpolate inside that?
12:01 timotimo <-[ @(%f.keys, %f.values) ]>?
12:01 FROGGS_ I think so, yes
12:02 timotimo something's gone horribly wrong :)
12:02 FROGGS_ r: my @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<-[@a]>+/
12:02 tadzik oh, d'oh. Will take alook soonish, thanks
12:02 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«「bc」␤␤»
12:02 FROGGS_ hmmm
12:02 timotimo oops :)
12:02 FROGGS_ r: my @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<-[@(@a)]>+/
12:02 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«「bc」␤␤»
12:03 FROGGS_ r: my @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<{@a}>+/
12:03 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤»
12:03 FROGGS_ r: my @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<-{@a}>+/ # just NYI ?
12:03 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter < (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/ZIlKhoCqMv:1�------> [32mmy @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<-[33m�[31m{@a}>+/ # just NYI ?[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match lite…
12:03 timotimo ask std?
12:03 FROGGS_ std: my @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<-{@a}>+/ # just NYI ?
12:03 camelia std 0336087: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter < (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/MOR1NwSnkK line 1:�------> [32mmy @a = "c"; say "abc" ~~ /<[33m�[31m-{@a}>+/ # just NYI ?[0m�Can't call method "from" on unblessed reference at STD.pm li…
12:04 FROGGS_ ó.ò
12:04 masak this is a regular reminder to sign up for the next #masakism, June 19: https://github.com/perl6/mu/wiki/perl6-workshop-june-2013
12:04 masak I guess as the date approaches, we'll advertise a bit more through blogs and reddit, like last time.
12:04 masak until then, be one of the exclusive first members to sign up! :D
12:05 FROGGS_ :o)
12:13 Teratogen masak, is it in Tempe, Arizona?
12:13 Teratogen =D
12:19 tadzik yes, it is
12:21 tadzik it's on the irc, so it's going to be everywhere
12:23 timotimo only where people are, i'm afraid :(
12:23 timotimo (and sentient bots, but i call those 'people', too, because they deserve respect, too.)
12:24 moritz you mean you discriminate against non-sentient bots? sentientist!
12:25 timotimo they don't feel it like sentiens do
12:25 Teratogen I have a megahal bot I could bring in here =)
12:27 ajr joined #perl6
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12:33 grondilu rn: say <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1)
12:33 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«all("f", "b")␤»
12:33 camelia ..rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«all(f, b)␤»
12:33 masak Teratogen: better not. ;)
12:33 Teratogen yeah, I would get permabanned =(
12:33 grondilu rn: say <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1) == one(*=
12:33 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')'â�¤at /tmp/XOHTmmn4tK:1â�¤------> [32msay <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1) == one(*=[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        in…
12:33 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Bogus term at /tmp/Io2ELNiYEo line 1 (EOF):�------> [32msay <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1) == one(*=[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m��Parse failed��»
12:33 grondilu rn: say <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1) == one(*)
12:34 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: f␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3652 (ANON @ 10) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3654 (NumSyntax.str2num @ 5) ␤  at /h…
12:34 camelia ..rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: Mu *%_)␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:865␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3031␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3029␤  in sub thread_junction at src/gen/CORE.sett…
12:34 grondilu rn: say <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1) eq one(*)
12:34 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«all(one(Bool::False, ), one(Bool::False, ))␤»
12:34 camelia ..rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«all(one(False), one(False))␤»
12:34 masak Teratogen: no, but we would have a grown-up talk with you, in all likelihood.
12:34 masak looks interesting: http://nikic.github.io/2012/06/15/The-true-power-of-regular-expressions.html
12:34 Teratogen I have a dutch-hating bot
12:34 Teratogen =)
12:34 masak Teratogen: ok, *then* I would permaban you. :)
12:35 masak Teratogen: in here, we are very thankful for our Dutch. :D
12:35 * masak .oO( both the Dutch and the Duchesses )
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12:47 grondilu rn: say so <foo bar>.all.substr(0, 1) eq one(*)
12:47 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:47 grondilu rn: say so <foo far>.all.substr(0, 1) eq one(*)
12:47 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:48 * grondilu was trying a junctive way to write: "all strings start with the same character"
12:49 timotimo no, that won't do
12:49 timotimo try it with a bag
12:50 timotimo <foo bar>>>.substr(0, 1).bag.elems
12:50 timotimo r: <foo bar>>>.substr(0, 1).bag.elems.say
12:50 grondilu oh yeah, bags.  I always forget about them.
12:50 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«2␤»
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12:51 timotimo do i gets a cookie? :D
12:51 grondilu timotimo++
12:51 grondilu though I could have used .uniq as well.  But I thought a junctive way would be cool
12:51 timotimo junctions are uber slow, though ;)
12:51 timotimo also, the >>.substr is kind of like .all.substr i think
12:52 grondilu I don't think so.  .substr autothreads
12:52 grondilu rn: say <foo bar>.all.substr(1).WHAT
12:52 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«(Junction)␤»
12:53 timotimo kind of like, meaning it serves a sufficiently similar function
12:53 grondilu ah ok
12:53 FROGGS_ rn: say [eq] <foo bar>>>.substr(0,1)
12:53 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:54 timotimo not bad either
12:54 grondilu yes I ended up using [eq].  But really I was curious if a junctive form could be used
12:54 timotimo that could short-circuit even
12:55 grondilu rn: say so <foo far>».substr(0, 1) eq one(*)
12:55 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:55 timotimo perl6 is not prolog
12:55 grondilu rn: say so <foo far>».substr(0, 1) eq all(*)
12:55 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:56 grondilu could be
12:56 grondilu isn't perl6 supposed to be able to do whatever other languages do?
12:58 colomon errr... no?
13:00 moritz no.
13:00 * grondilu was not serious and should have added a smiley
13:04 FROGGS_ sad that goto isnt implemented yet, you could add it otherwise :/
13:06 timotimo now that i've fleshed out my presentation framework as far as i can think, i believe i'll have to come up with some darn slides :(
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13:12 parrot_Util timotimo: What is the title of your talk? (/me can't find you by handle on yapcna.org)
13:13 timotimo i don't go to yapcna, sorry
13:13 timotimo it's kind of about 2000 euros outside of my budget
13:13 timotimo plus minus 50%
13:13 timotimo https://entropia.de/GPN13:Fahrplan#Samstag.2C_01.06.2013 - 18:00 o'clock
13:15 Util timotimo: Thanks, and good luck!
13:15 timotimo i've got colors, it'll be good
13:17 timotimo since i won't be having too much horizontal space, i made a coloriser for gists and similar things: http://t.h8.lv/demonstration_colors.png
13:17 Util Google translates your title as "A squirrel-guided tour of Perl 6". Is that an accurate translation?
13:18 timotimo it is
13:18 timotimo since i only have 1 hour and i want to get as many neat features and things in, it'll seem like i'm constantly getting distracted by shiny things, much like a squirrel would
13:19 Util Delightful!
13:19 timotimo i hope it will be equally as delightful to other people; especially those that have never seen perl6
13:19 FROGGS_ I guess they will be impressed :o)
13:19 timotimo that's an euphemism, no? :)
13:20 timotimo i think i'll present my presentation framework in a lightning talk 1.5h earlier
13:23 FROGGS_ if they know a bit about hacking they will enjoy it, but if they dont know a bit about hacking they'll probably just raise an eyebrow
13:24 timotimo as long as they don't raise their rotten fruit and vegetables at me ... ;)
13:24 FROGGS_ *g*
13:24 FROGGS_ yeah, they can throw raw meat though
13:25 timotimo yeah, i don't mind that
13:26 timotimo say Timo.WHY;  <- last line on my first slide. best line in my whole presentation (so far) :D
13:26 FROGGS_ hehe
13:32 moritz r: say Timo.WHY
13:32 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Timo used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
13:32 timotimo just says where i study; is a boring bit of text
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14:51 masak r: <foo bar>>>.substr(0, 1).bag.elems.say
14:51 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«2␤»
14:51 masak r: <foo bar>>>.substr(0, 1).Bag.elems.say
14:51 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«2␤»
14:51 masak waitwait... so we have *both* .Bag and .bag?
14:52 moritz r: <boo far>».substr(0,1).uniq.elems
14:52 camelia rakudo 25a0b3:  ( no output )
14:52 moritz r: say <boo far>».substr(0,1).uniq.elems
14:52 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«2␤»
14:53 * masak decommutes
14:55 colomon .bag is supposed to go away.
14:56 colomon I originally named it .bag, but was convinced .Bag is better.
14:56 colomon I think I need to finish up working on my set/bag branch of roast and get it to masak...
14:57 brrt joined #perl6
15:06 [Coke] colomon: I wasn't referring to roast. I was referring to this: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily, which is testing whether or not star's module choices work. I suspect you're testing git-HEAD of everything, so I think there's room for a little duplication here.
15:22 timotimo r: <foo bar>\ >>.substr(0, 1).say;
15:22 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«f b␤»
15:22 timotimo unspace is cool.
15:30 timotimo dude, i'm so tired right now
15:30 timotimo i'm in no shape to be making slides >_<
15:33 moritz excuses!
15:33 timotimo i even meant to post this in a channel where that kind of talk and emoticon use is more common, but i accidentally wrote it here! still on topic, though
15:35 moritz btw #git has 913 nicks at the moment, but I still have the feeling that the overall activity is lower than in here
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17:30 [Coke] the fact that rt word wraps code is really nasty for people trying to test tickets.
17:31 FROGGS yepp
17:33 domidumont joined #perl6
17:37 fgomez joined #perl6
17:53 dmol joined #perl6
17:57 dagurval r: "hello world" ~~ /(hello)/; say $/[0];
17:57 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«「hello」␤␤»
17:57 dagurval what's with the 「 and 」 in the output?
17:57 jnthn That's how Match objects gist.
17:58 dagurval ah, ok, so I have to explicitly Str it
17:58 moritz right
17:58 moritz or print it instead of say it
17:58 moritz which .Str's for you
17:59 jnthn Or ~ it
17:59 moritz or join it
18:16 dmol1 joined #perl6
18:20 FROGGS or quote it
18:21 rindolf joined #perl6
18:28 arnsholt jnthn: Do you know off-hand if setting Parrot's random seed to a fixed value might make the layout of objects the same between two runs (of the same program, obv)?
18:30 jnthn arnsholt: As in, where they get allocated?
18:30 kurahaupo joined #perl6
18:30 jnthn I don't think that's a Parrot doing; that's more likely to be the OS' address space randomization.
18:32 dagurval r: "asdf" ~~ s:g/s/d/;
18:32 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable value␤  in sub infix:<=> at src/gen/CORE.setting:13499␤  in block  at /tmp/znfJoKQkxz:1␤␤»
18:33 dagurval is that the same as the sub($a) { $a = 5 } optimize-bug in RT?
18:33 arnsholt jnthn: Right, that's probably right. To the Google-mobile, I guess
18:34 FROGGS dagurval: no, in this case you are trying to modify an string
18:35 FROGGS dagurval: the bug you are talking about is missing a containerization afaik
18:35 ajr joined #perl6
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18:48 grondilu rn:  say (my % = "foo bar" => 7)<foo bar>
18:48 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«(Any) (Any)␤»
18:48 grondilu rn:  say (my % = "foo bar" => 7){"foo bar"}
18:48 camelia rakudo 25a0b3, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«7␤»
18:49 * grondilu wishes he could write %h"foo bar"
18:55 jnthn %h<<'foo bar'>>
19:01 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
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19:21 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: a31ce41 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
19:21 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Mark dyncomp boundaries.
19:21 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a31ce419d2
19:21 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 4b6519a | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
19:21 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Fix lexical lookups over dyncomp boundaries.
19:21 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4b6519abac
19:21 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 9ab48a0 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
19:21 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Implement nqp::throw.
19:21 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9ab48a08fa
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19:58 dagurval r: class A { has $!foo; method new { self.bless(*, foo => "bar") }; method b { say $!foo } }; A.new.b
19:58 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
19:58 dagurval Why isn't foo "bar"?
19:59 lizmat joined #perl6
19:59 moritz dagurval: because public constructors can't set private attributes by defautl
19:59 moritz *default
19:59 moritz that goes against the idea of "private" :-)
20:00 dagurval who is supposed to set private attributes, if not the constructor? o_O
20:00 dagurval that makes no sense to me, coming from C++
20:01 dagurval s/set/initialize
20:01 jnthn That's what a BUILD submethod is for
20:01 jnthn submethod BUILD() { $!foo = "bar" }
20:01 jnthn But you could have written has $!foo = 'bar'; in that case.
20:03 moritz I also don't understand why folks write private attributes, and then want to give the user of the object direct write access to that attribute (but not read access; it's private after all)
20:03 dagurval r: class A { has $!foo; method BUILD($f) { $!foo = $f }; method b { say $!foo } }; A.new("BAR").b()
20:03 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«Default constructor for 'A' only takes named arguments␤  in method new at src/gen/CORE.setting:731␤  in method new at src/gen/CORE.setting:726␤  in block  at /tmp/AbEfx9_TC2:1␤␤»
20:04 moritz dagurval: http://doc.perl6.org/language/classtut#Constructors
20:04 moritz http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/object-construction-and-initialization.html
20:05 dagurval ah, ok, BUILD doesn't like position parameters
20:08 tadzik BUILD is confusing :)
20:08 dagurval so I have to choose between public attribute or forced naming parameter to constructor
20:08 moritz not at all.
20:09 dagurval I guess I should rtfm then :)
20:09 moritz method new controls how the constructor receives arguments
20:09 moritz method BUILD controls which ones are set
20:12 dagurval r: class A { has $!foo; submethod BUILD(:$!foo) { }; method new($p) { self.bless(*, foo => $p) };  method b { say $!foo } }; A.new("BAR").b()
20:12 camelia rakudo 25a0b3: OUTPUT«BAR␤»
20:12 dagurval got it!
20:14 lizmat joined #perl6
20:23 timotimo i'm having a really hard time getting the japanese delimiters for matches working with urxvt. what font on linux would have that character? i can't seem to find that out
20:24 btyler joined #perl6
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20:25 timotimo 9x15bold seems to have it! great
20:25 lizmat joined #perl6
20:27 timotimo aaaand i messed it up again
20:28 timotimo turning autohinting, or hinting really, on breaks it immediately
20:34 zby_home_ joined #perl6
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20:34 geekosaur meaning it's in the bitmap font but not the ttf version, probably
20:38 timotimo weird.
20:38 btyler joined #perl6
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20:57 btyler joined #perl6
20:59 pmurias joined #perl6
20:59 * pmurias got accepted into GSoC ;)
20:59 jnthn \o/
20:59 jnthn pmurias++
21:00 tadzik \o/
21:00 tadzik awesome!
21:00 jnthn .oO( pmurias QASTs JavaScript backend charm )
21:02 masak \o/
21:02 masak pmurias++
21:02 masak I for one welcome our new Perl 6 browser overlords.
21:03 tadzik :)
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21:34 splitcells why an our variable cannont have an type constraint in a package?
21:35 masak because a type constraint is not compatible with the way multiple sites can define and redefine 'our' variables.
21:36 splitcells ah
21:36 splitcells ty
21:40 masak pzh
21:42 sorear there's no reason in principle it couldn't be allowed, but we'd have to enforce a type-compatibility rule for mergers
21:42 sorear nontrivial and low priority, sorry D:
21:43 masak aye.
21:44 masak 'night, #perl6
21:56 btyler joined #perl6
22:01 grondilu pmurias: what will you work on?  r u going to talk about it in a blog or something?
22:04 kurahaupo joined #perl6
22:05 kurahaupo joined #perl6
22:05 * grondilu looks in the GSoC home page and looks for perl
22:05 * grondilu finds this:
22:05 grondilu Rewrite the testing environment for Wget in Python. This is required since although Perl is a powerful language, it's syntax is quite non-intuitive to the C Programmers who write code for Wget.
22:06 grondilu https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2013/darnir/5001
22:06 grondilu :/
22:06 diakopter heh heh.
22:06 grondilu Yet I think perl is much more C-like than python :/
22:06 diakopter chromatic would enjoy writing a blog post about that quote "Python is more intuitive syntax to C programmers than Perl"
22:07 diakopter I'd enjoy reading it
22:08 grondilu It's actually possible to translate C-code into some perl code that VERY much look like the original C code.
22:08 lizmat joined #perl6
22:09 grondilu I mean come on, isn't that obvious?
22:13 pmurias grondilu: a javascript backend for Perl 6 (nqp but hopefull rakudo in the future)
22:14 btyler cool! asm.js for bonus points :)
22:14 grondilu oh ok I see you project in the list now, pmurias
22:17 espadrine btyler: you can't really transpile perl 6 to asm.js. Asm.js doesn't have strings.
22:27 pmichaud pmurias++  # gsoc
22:28 pmichaud I'm so happy to see that funded.
22:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: c851c90 | coke++ | / (4 files):
22:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/c851c90238
22:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 6b047df | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
22:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
22:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/6b047df13c
22:43 woolfy joined #perl6
22:45 dalek specs: 415f998 | labster++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
22:45 dalek specs: Add IO::Handle methods encoding and open (really!), cleanup slurp
22:45 dalek specs: Minor cleanup in IO::Spec.  TODO: Pipes
22:45 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/415f998968
22:47 raiph joined #perl6
22:48 * lizmat is back home and ready to get some shuteye
22:49 sorear cheers
22:49 colomon joined #perl6
22:50 adu joined #perl6
22:54 labster Aww, I was hoping pmichaud++'s patch would fix that heisenbug.
23:10 pmichaud well, so was I.  Sort of.

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