Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-05-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:26 dalek specs: 346540c | labster++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
00:26 dalek specs: add IO::Handle.IO noop
00:26 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/346540cbe0
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00:52 * grondilu wonders why there is so much spam on RC
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01:22 dalek perl6-bench: b5ff52a | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | timeall:
01:22 dalek perl6-bench: Increase default for ENOUGH_TIME to 5.0 seconds; increase count of scale 0 compile/override time runs to same as startup_runs
01:22 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/b5ff52a2d4
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03:42 RandalSchwartz Uh... why is there a perl6 release, but not a rakudo release?
03:42 RandalSchwartz I'm *very* confused
03:43 RandalSchwartz rakudo seems not updated since febuary
03:43 adu hmm
03:43 RandalSchwartz did I miss a memo? :)
03:44 adu maybe it's one of those 2.0.0.0.0.0.1 releases
03:44 RandalSchwartz well - rakudo star had been good about a monthly release, and now it stoppped
03:44 RandalSchwartz very curious
03:44 adu maybe someone's on vacation
03:45 RandalSchwartz the project can't stop for one person
03:45 RandalSchwartz and for 3 months
03:45 Teratogen hey Randal =)
03:46 RandalSchwartz Hey Teratogen
03:46 RandalSchwartz do you know anything about this release interruption?
03:46 Teratogen I'm waiting for Perl 6 1.0
03:46 Teratogen no, no I don't
03:50 RandalSchwartz where transaction_type in ('SALE', 'PAY')
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03:50 RandalSchwartz oops
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03:56 sorear o hai
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04:09 RandalSchwartz still wondering why the rakudo thing is broken
04:11 pmichaud RandalSchwartz: no star release because we've had some errors in the modules
04:11 pmichaud we _think_ we have those cleaned up now, and expect a 2013.05 release this week.
04:12 pmichaud but since one of the purposes of Rakudo Star is to provide some stability across releases, it hasn't seemed appropriate to release when we know that key modules are broken.
04:13 RandalSchwartz ahh... was just used to the regular release
04:13 RandalSchwartz so it seemed odd that they stopped
04:13 pmichaud agreed.
04:13 RandalSchwartz was there a blog post to say that?
04:14 pmichaud no, there wasn't, and probably should have been.
04:14 pmichaud another reason the releases have been delayed is because I've been essentially without tuits since mid-March.
04:14 RandalSchwartz ok, as an interested consumer, that might have been useful :)
04:14 pmichaud normally we'd find someone else to cut the release in that case, but with the module errors we didn't have people with the right skill set, apparently.
04:16 pmichaud I think I'll add a note to the Star release guide that says that if a regularly scheduled release is missed, we make a blog post to that effect.
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04:22 dalek star: cabee9d | pmichaud++ | modules/ (3 files):
04:22 dalek star: More module updates for 2013.05 release.
04:22 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/cabee9dc58
04:23 dalek star: 1631f37 | pmichaud++ | tools/star/Makefile:
04:23 dalek star: Bump to use Parrot 5.3.0 (supported) instead of 5.2.0 (devel).
04:23 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/1631f371f2
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04:51 avuserow hi perl6ers
04:51 * avuserow is giving weechat a spin
04:51 diakopter hi
04:52 avuserow hi diakopter, how goes?
04:52 diakopter differently than I'd expected the last 2 months, but interestingly awesome
04:52 sorear hello avuserow
04:52 diakopter (.. along with some large fail along the way)
04:53 avuserow so what have you been working on recently?
04:55 diakopter helping w/ yapc the last 2 months
04:55 avuserow oh cool. I'm looking forward to it :)
04:55 diakopter you're going?
04:56 diakopter or will watch the livestreams?
04:57 diakopter sorry if I don't know your name :(
04:58 avuserow I'll be going
04:58 avuserow I don't know if I ever posted much?
04:58 * sorear will also be going
04:58 avuserow :D
04:58 * sorear has not done much with p6 for months
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04:58 avuserow yeah me neither. I did GSoC in 2008 for Perl 6 tests under an ancient handle
04:59 diakopter ah, there you are
04:59 sorear if you don't mind me asking, what handles have you used with perl 6 recently?
05:00 sorear I joined the project in feb 2010, if you did nothing since then then I wouldn't know you :(
05:00 avuserow nope, nothing since then
05:00 avuserow university work kept me very busy
05:01 avuserow I'm hoping to get back into contributing occasionally, either here or on CPAN. I have a neglected module there :\
05:03 diakopter Auzon
05:03 avuserow :)
05:03 avuserow the internet never forgets
05:05 avuserow oh right I forgot, this is when all the happy European hackers are sleeping :)
05:07 diakopter yeah it's just all us blasé far westerners
05:07 avuserow r: say "hello"
05:07 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«hello␤»
05:08 avuserow sweet, unicode seems to work
05:08 sorear n: say "hello"
05:08 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«hello␤»
05:08 avuserow niecza++ :)
05:09 TimToady p: say "hello"
05:09 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«hello␤»
05:09 sorear nqp-jvm: say "moo"
05:09 sorear nqpjvm: say("moo")
05:09 camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say \"moo\""␤  in panic␤  in comp_unit␤  in TOP␤  in parse␤  in parse␤  in <anon>␤  in compile␤  in eval␤  in evalfiles␤  in command_eval␤  in command_line␤  in MAIN␤  in <anon>␤  in <anon>»
05:10 Teratogen p: say "Hello, world!"
05:10 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«Hello, world!␤»
05:10 sorear nqp-jvm: say("moo")
05:10 pmichaud feather is thrashing at the moment for some reason
05:10 camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«moo␤»
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05:10 sorear pmichaud: 1 or 3?
05:10 pmichaud 1, I guess.
05:10 pmichaud feather.perl6.nl
05:10 avuserow is that where camelia is these days?
05:10 TimToady std: say "ok 00:00 45m"
05:10 camelia std 0336087: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
05:11 pmichaud yay, all module tests pass with current R*
05:11 sorear avuserow: last I heard, camelia is split between 1 (compiler builds) and 3 (execution)
05:11 TimToady \o/ quick add more modules
05:11 pmichaud [pmichaud@feather ~]$ uptime 05:11:05 up 111 days,  9:49, 28 users,  load average: 27.60, 23.51, 17.28
05:11 sorear Lovely
05:11 Teratogen moar module
05:11 Teratogen s
05:12 Teratogen that is a hefty load average, sorear
05:12 TimToady we'll have moar modules pretty soon now
05:12 * diakopter quantum shifts a little
05:14 sorear Teratogen: you meant pmichaud
05:14 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-2013.05-rc1.tar.gz  # release candidate for R* 2013.05
05:15 Teratogen oops
05:15 pmichaud I'll look for comments overnight and publish a R* release tomorrow, .msi to follow shortly after that.
05:15 sorear \o/
05:19 pmichaud anyway, bedtime here -- be back tomorrow morning
05:21 diakopter pmichaud: 'nite
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07:04 dalek specs: 4f0895b | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
07:04 dalek specs: add lsb and msb methods to Int
07:04 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/4f0895bf86
07:17 dalek star: abacc10 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2013.05.md:
07:17 dalek star: [announce] minor formatting update
07:17 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/abacc10274
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07:20 moritz I just tried to build an R* tarball myself, and somehow it didn't download rakudo and parrot
07:21 Teratogen that does not sound good
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07:30 sorear um
07:32 FROGGS moritz: looks like you have to do that manually
07:32 moritz I'm pretty sure that's now how it's supposed to be
07:33 sorear that is not the standard, least-surprising definition of msb and lsb
07:33 sorear equivalently: those are not the standard, least-surprising names for ctz and clz
07:34 * moritz wouldn't expect to be able to find least-surprising defintion for msb on an arbitrary-size type like Int
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07:35 sorear +(* < 0)
07:37 sorear (if you think 2-adically...)
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07:38 sorear that would however still be rather problematic because my uint8 $x;  $x.msb # you're calling Int.msb here even if you don't realize it because uint8 is only a a container type
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08:35 masak the CSP program from yesterday runs about 2 seconds faster if I multiply all the coefficients by 100 and solve the problem with Int variables.
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08:37 labster morning masak
08:37 sorear feh.  I started to read that and was all OOO WE CAN HAS MULTITHREADINGS?
08:37 sorear o/ masak
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09:04 bbkr pmichaud: HTTP::Easy or JSON::RPC does not work in star RC (after request is sent to server it does not return response). I'm debugging it right now
09:12 bbkr can you please run following code on Star RC:  use HTTP::Easy::PSGI; my $app = sub (%env) { print %env.perl; return [ 204, [ ], [ ] ]; }; my $psgi = HTTP::Easy::PSGI.new( host => "", port => 8080); $psgi.app( $app ); $psgi.run;
09:12 bbkr and then wget http://localhost:8080 ?
09:13 bbkr In my case wget awaits response and $app sub receives and prints it after killing wget
09:14 tadzik is it just me, or is feather a bit laggy recently/
09:17 sorear tadzik: 22:11 < pmichaud> [pmichaud@feather ~]$ uptime 05:11:05 up 111 days,  9:49, 28 users,  load average: 27.60, 23.51, 17.28
09:19 tadzik that'll explain it
09:19 tadzik azawawi's perlbrew is milling, and so are sergot's cronjobs
09:20 sorear kill them all
09:20 tadzik I don't have root here
09:20 sorear bah
09:20 * sorear has root
09:20 * sorear attempts to log in
09:21 * sorear is having trouble...
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09:21 masak yeah, logging in is slow today.
09:21 lizmat you probably need patience on a box that is that loaded
09:22 sorear WOOH I HAVE THE MOTD
09:31 sorear I've killed the offending processes and disabled sergot's crontab
09:32 tadzik probably sergot's jobs should be running on some big niceness
09:32 sorear .tell sergot_ Please rewrite your crontab so that when the load average is 25 and single perl6 jobs take hours, you don't start MORE JOBS
09:32 yoleaux sorear: I'll pass your message to sergot_.
09:32 tadzik that'll help too
09:32 sorear guy was running five tasks per hour
09:33 Teratogen reboot
09:33 tadzik yeah, sure
09:34 sorear I forget, do I ban him on sight?
09:34 Teratogen who me?
09:34 Teratogen no
09:36 sorear do we even USE gitit?
09:36 sorear there's a git-backed wiki engine running on feather1, and it's the biggest consumer of memory now
09:36 moritz it powers http://wiki.perl6.org/
09:37 moritz yes, we use it
09:37 sorear :(
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09:37 moritz but I'm sure you can restart it, and it'll use less memory afterwards
09:37 moritz maybe we should start it with an ulimit
09:38 FROGGS (and/or restart it by cron.weekly)
09:39 moritz fwiw I've restartet gitit now
09:39 pmichaud maybe also see if it's being hit hard by spiders
09:39 pmichaud I had trouble with that with my wiki engines at one time
09:39 sorear there's a farabi process running that's consumed a huge amount of resources; any way to check if that's actually being used?
09:40 moritz yes: kill it, and see if anybody complains
09:40 pmichaud nowadays I have .htaccess entries that refuse to serve pages to bots when the server load level > 5.0
09:41 pmichaud Yahoo's Slurp bot is one of the worst offenders by far.
09:41 bonsaikitten caching, proper robots.txt to throttle robots ...
09:41 moritz pmichaud: funny, IME it's bing :-)
09:41 moritz pmichaud: want to share your .htaccess?
09:42 pmichaud well, I haven't looked in several years.  But when I did some log evaluations several years ago, Slurp was making 1500+ requests for the same page per day.
09:42 moritz pmichaud: ah, I think yahoo stopped crawling about a year ago, and now uses microsoft's index
09:42 pmichaud hmmm, I still find Slurp in my log entries. anyway, getting .htaccess
09:47 sorear did one of you kill the azawawi stuff?
09:48 pmichaud oh, looks like I do the load-level check in the wiki software itself, not in .htaccess
09:49 sorear judging from how long the find is taking we clearly have too many files on feather...:D
09:50 shachaf What is feather?
09:50 sorear feather.perl6.nl
09:51 sorear crappy VM that runs stuff for a bunch of people, perpetually broken
09:51 sorear ehhh I need to sleep
09:51 shachaf Aha.
09:51 shachaf
09:51 sorear s/crappy/small/ mostly
09:52 sorear but I shouldn't complain, it's donated hardware
09:52 masak aye. Juerd++
09:52 * sorear goes to bed before he says any more stupid things
09:52 pmichaud what is oidentd and why are there 122 of them running on feather?  ;-)
09:54 Teratogen oidentd is auth port 113
09:54 Teratogen used by irc to "identify" users
09:54 Teratogen there should be one (1) oidentd running
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09:55 Teratogen how do I know?  I just installed oidentd on my amazon vps
09:55 Teratogen oidentd is an identd daemon/server
09:55 Teratogen there should only be one running on a box
09:55 Teratogen but check oidentd.conf
09:55 Teratogen maybe you have something interesting going on
09:56 Teratogen there should be only one running on an instance of an operating system, I should say
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10:11 dalek v5: ebdb97d | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
10:11 dalek v5: added primitive support for subroutine signatures
10:11 dalek v5:
10:11 dalek v5: It can basically handle only $ and @-tokens, where $-tokens are (wrongly)
10:11 dalek v5: treated as optionals. Calling a $$-sub with three args will die already.
10:11 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/ebdb97d315
10:12 daxim http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/05/29/0225227/dao-a-new-programming-language-supporting-advanced-features-with-small-runtime
10:16 pmichaud afk, sleep (hopefully)
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10:55 * lizmat started a new spec issue "What to do with 2+ modules at UNIT level" at https://github.com/perl6/specs/issues/46
10:59 lizmat afk while doing preparations for trip to Austin TX
11:00 moritz daxim: thanks, looks quite interesting
11:04 colomon msb and lsb?
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11:14 perl6 Qwerty
11:14 Teratogen uiop
11:15 lizmat r: {module A { sub a is export { say "a" } }}; import A; a  # should this work?
11:15 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«a␤»
11:15 lizmat I would assume A would not be visible in the outer scope, yet we can import from it?
11:16 lizmat afk again
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11:19 moritz lizmat: modules are our-scoped by default
11:20 masak was gonna say.
11:20 moritz lizmat: so it's visible from the outer scope
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11:22 lizmat ok, thanks for the reality check
11:23 lizmat r: {my module A { sub a is export { say "a" } }}; import A; a  # indeed fails
11:23 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Could not find module A to import symbols fromâ�¤at /tmp/3C3gQnQees:1â�¤------> [32msub a is export { say "a" } }}; import A[33mâ��[31m; a  # indeed fails[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statement …
11:24 * lizmat wonders what the use of an "is export" sub in a "my module"
11:24 lizmat is there a way to import that sub then at all?  If not, maybe it should generate a warning ?
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11:24 masak &
11:25 lizmat it being " using is export on a sub in a lexically bound module"
11:26 masak TimToady: it is not clear to me from https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/4f0895bf8669b8a87d9b257172b89e736108f061 what lsb and msb actually return. specifically, isn't "the least significant bit position" always 0?
11:28 timotimo i'm kind of bummed that we can't make set(1, 2, 3, 4) ~~ set(*, *, 2, 3) work properly (or can we!)
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11:32 colomon TimToady: what masak just said.
11:32 colomon timotimo: don't think so
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11:35 colomon timotimo: note what you're testing is relatively easily checked using cardinality and subset, something like $set == 4 && set(2, 3) (<) $set
11:39 dalek v5: 87b409c | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
11:39 dalek v5: fix issue with space after a "use NAME" statement
11:39 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/87b409cb62
11:50 lizmat hmmm…  t/spec/S11-modules/nested.t is failing for me with "make sometests", but not directly
11:50 lizmat I mean, calling the test file directly gives all ok's
11:51 timotimo colomon: but then you have to write a closure for the smartmatch ;)
11:51 FROGGS lizmat: maybe this make target doesnt involve fudging?
11:51 lizmat I'm also getting TODO passed on t/spec/S32-temporal/DateTime.rakudo and t/spec/S32-temporal/calendar.rakudo
11:52 lizmat FROGGS: indeed, no fudging
11:53 FROGGS well, that explains it :o)
11:54 lizmat huh?
11:54 lizmat it didn't use to fail
11:54 FROGGS the goal was that all tests should pass without fudging, but I guess this will never happen
11:55 Teratogen 41 => perl6
11:55 Teratogen bash: perl6: command not found
11:55 Teratogen when will perl6 start being included in the major linux distros?
11:55 timotimo when the linux kernel gets rewritten in perl6
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11:56 FROGGS lizmat: I expected that nested.t has a #?skip in it, but it has not
11:56 Teratogen I think the linux kernel, like Perl 5, is pure C
11:56 timotimo that's why they'll have to rewrite it :)
11:56 Teratogen baw
11:56 Teratogen that's no answer, man!
11:56 timotimo no, i was making a lame joke
11:56 Teratogen I know, I know
11:57 Teratogen *sigh*
11:57 timotimo i know, too ;)
11:57 Teratogen I think perl6's coming of age will be when it starts getting included in major linux distros
11:57 Teratogen like perl 5 and python are today
11:57 timotimo you mean "in a default installation", right?
11:57 FROGGS Teratogen: I guess they will bundle it when there is that moment when somebody decides it is ready
11:57 Teratogen and, apparently, php
11:57 timotimo er, what? php isn't on my major linux distro
11:58 Teratogen type php
11:58 Teratogen and see what happens
11:58 timotimo zsh: command not found: php
11:58 Teratogen wow, it comes with Slackware
11:58 Teratogen I don't know what distro you have but it must suck!
11:58 timotimo it's debian
11:58 Teratogen oh, well, I don't know what to say!
11:58 Teratogen SLACKWARE UBER ALLES!
11:58 FROGGS debian++ # that should be said
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11:59 colomon timotimo: if you really want to do "that", you can define a new class which is something like "a set plus N whatevers" and write the appropriate ACCEPTS for it.
11:59 timotimo why would php be included by default? no system-related utilities use it (don't start talking about PHPGtk) and you can hardly make use of it on the commandline either
11:59 dalek roast: 265ab23 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-temporal/ (2 files):
11:59 dalek roast: Unfudge 2 tests that are passing now
11:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/265ab235e3
11:59 lizmat dalek seems slow: that was 2+ minutes ago
12:01 FROGGS lizmat: do you have a A.pm file somewhere around?
12:01 lizmat grrr… actually I do
12:01 FROGGS that would explain why nested.t failed
12:01 lizmat perhaps the test should unshift, rather than push ?
12:01 * FROGGS had that "problem" two weeks ago, and then jnthn++ pointed him to it
12:02 FROGGS sounds sane
12:02 timotimo Teratogen: on my mint, it'll say "php will not execute and completion _php exists."
12:02 Teratogen try php -v
12:03 dalek roast: 92e7ba5 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S11-modules/nested.t:
12:03 dalek roast: Make sure that these test's external files are found first
12:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/92e7ba5108
12:03 FROGGS I get an installer hint for rakudo, nqp and parrot on my linux box, even if these installable packages are at least a year old or so
12:04 timotimo same - it's what zsh says when the program is not installed, but there is a completion script available
12:04 timotimo also, when i hit return a few times, it'll say zsh: correct 'php' to '_php' [nyae]? n
12:04 timotimo zsh: command not found: php
12:04 lizmat really afk for a few hours now
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12:04 FROGGS how to pronounce "nyae"?
12:04 FROGGS nüää?
12:05 timotimo "naja, äh"
12:05 FROGGS *g*
12:06 huf the nya part is fairly straightforward
12:06 Teratogen weird
12:06 huf like lin nyan cat, without the n
12:06 Teratogen which php
12:06 Teratogen see what that says =)
12:06 Teratogen sounds like you have a partial installation of php, somehow
12:06 timotimo php not found
12:06 timotimo no, it's a "no installation of php at all"
12:07 Teratogen why for the love of heaven are you using zsh?
12:07 timotimo all those completions come with zsh
12:07 timotimo because i don't feel comfortable with fish
12:07 Util FROGGS: I say it as "No, Yes, Abort, Edit". :^)
12:07 FROGGS :P
12:08 * FROGGS now takes a walk with his coffee mug after this php install-party :o)
12:09 timotimo more like "php is already installed"-party
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12:09 timotimo anyway, i need to tidy up and clean my apartment, and that could take a while :)
12:11 * FROGGS .oO( is it about a girl or his mom? )
12:13 timotimo two male friends are going to stay over for GPN
12:13 FROGGS then I see no reason for cleaning *g*
12:15 FROGGS maybe I can make it to the GPN too some day, sounds fun
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12:33 [Coke] (regularly scheduled R* releases) I think part of the problem is that they were not regularly scheduled. they just happened each month. (I thought R* was NOT intended to be monthly)
12:35 pmichaud R* is intended to be regularly scheduled.  We declared they'd be monthly again because we expected a fair bit of monthly improvement in the compiler.
12:35 pmichaud which is indeed what happened, but then the releases were held up due to module issues, which we didn't expect.
12:35 pmichaud s/expect/plan for/
12:36 pmichaud then they stopped being monthly, without any real explanation of why.
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12:37 [Coke] ok; I missed the announcement that they turned monthly, or I'd have tried harder to get it out the door. whoops.
12:37 [Coke] not much harder, mind. :)
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12:50 daxim rakudo, 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ '\w'
12:50 daxim rakudo, ['foo.bar.baz' ~~ '\w'].perl.say
12:50 daxim rakudo: ['foo.bar.baz' ~~ '\w'].perl.say
12:50 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[Bool::False]␤»
12:50 daxim rakudo: 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ '\w'
12:50 camelia rakudo 8a0859:  ( no output )
12:51 FROGGS daxim: what do you expect?
12:53 daxim rakudo: 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ m/\w/
12:53 camelia rakudo 8a0859:  ( no output )
12:56 daxim rakudo: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ m/\w/
12:56 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「f」␤␤»
12:59 daxim rakudo: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ m:g/(\w+)/
12:59 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:02 daxim rakudo: ['foo.bar.baz' ~~ m/(\w+)/].perl
13:02 camelia rakudo 8a0859:  ( no output )
13:02 daxim rakudo: ['foo.bar.baz' ~~ m/(\w+)/].perl.say
13:02 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[Match.new(orig => "foo.bar.baz", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => (Match.new(orig => "foo.bar.baz", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()),).list, hash => EnumMap.new())]␤»
13:04 daxim rakudo: ['foo.bar.baz' ~~ m:g/(\w+)/].perl.say
13:04 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[Bool::False]␤»
13:05 daxim this is like I have to learn to walk all over again
13:07 timotimo what's with the [ ]?
13:08 FROGGS r: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /\w+/
13:08 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「foo」␤␤»
13:08 FROGGS r: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)/
13:08 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「foo」␤ 0 => 「foo」␤␤»
13:08 FROGGS r: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+) % '.'/
13:08 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/ThX9xcVWB_:1�------> [32msay 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+) [33m�[31m% '.'/[0m�Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'�at /tmp/ThX9xcVWB_:1�------> [3…
13:08 FROGGS r: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /[\w+] % '.'/
13:08 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/Evum0_Ej3f:1�------> [32msay 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /[\w+] [33m�[31m% '.'/[0m�Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'�at /tmp/Evum0_Ej3f:1�------> [3…
13:09 FROGGS -.-
13:09 FROGGS r: say 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)+ % '.'/
13:09 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「foo.bar.baz」␤ 0 => 「foo」␤ 0 => 「bar」␤ 0 => 「baz」␤␤»
13:11 FROGGS it really is better after coming around the first Stolperstein
13:12 timotimo daxim: did you perhaps want
13:12 timotimo r: say "foo.bar.baz".comb(/\w+/)
13:12 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo bar baz␤»
13:12 timotimo r: "foo.bar.baz".comb(/\w+/).perl.say
13:12 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«("foo", "bar", "baz").list␤»
13:12 [Coke] r: say "foo.bar.baz".comb(/\w+/).perl
13:12 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«("foo", "bar", "baz").list␤»
13:12 [Coke] yah, that. :)
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13:15 daxim why can't a match simply return a list?
13:15 colomon r: say "foo.bar.baz".words.perl
13:15 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«("foo.bar.baz",).list␤»
13:17 colomon daxim: a list of what?
13:17 daxim of match results, like in js and perl5
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13:19 colomon daxim: you mean of captures?
13:20 daxim yes
13:20 FROGGS r: 'foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)+ % '.'/; say $0
13:20 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「foo」␤ 「bar」␤ 「baz」␤␤»
13:21 colomon r: say ('foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)+ % '.'/).list.perl
13:21 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«((Match.new(orig => "foo.bar.baz", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "foo.bar.baz", from => 4, to => 7, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "foo.bar.baz", from => 8, to => 1…
13:21 FROGGS the are still Match-es btw
13:22 colomon r: .Str.say for ('foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)+ % '.'/).list;
13:22 daxim r: say ('foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)+/).list.perl
13:22 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤»
13:22 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«((Match.new(orig => "foo.bar.baz", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()),),).list␤»
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13:23 colomon r: .Str.say for ('foo.bar.baz qix' ~~ /(\w+)+ % '.' (\w+)/).list;
13:23 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤ba␤z␤»
13:23 colomon r: .Str.say for ('foo.bar.baz qix' ~~ /[(\w+)+ % '.'] (\w+)/).list;
13:23 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤ba␤z␤»
13:24 FROGGS ?
13:24 colomon n: .Str.say for ('foo.bar.baz qix' ~~ /[(\w+)+ % '.'] (\w+)/).list;
13:24 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«foo bar ba␤z␤»
13:24 colomon FROGGS: I've got nothing.
13:24 colomon oh, I've got something
13:24 colomon rn: .Str.say for ('foo.bar.baz qix' ~~ /[(\w+)+ % '.'] \s+ (\w+)/).list;
13:24 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤qix␤»
13:24 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«foo bar baz␤qix␤»
13:24 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /(\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list
13:25 camelia rakudo 8a0859:  ( no output )
13:25 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /(\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  say @a.perl;
13:25 FROGGS ahh, of course
13:25 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«Array.new(Match.new(orig => "foo bar baz", from => 0, to => 1, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "foo bar baz", from => 1, to => 2, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "foo bar baz", from => 2,…
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13:25 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /(\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  .say for @a;
13:25 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「f」␤␤「o」␤␤「o」␤␤»
13:25 colomon FROGGS: it's still not "ah, of course" to me.  I mean, I understand now why qix didn't match.  But why does baz appear to match twice?
13:26 pmichaud ooc, what are you all trying to do/achieve?
13:27 FROGGS colomon: that "baz ba z" is wrong there, niecza is right at this
13:27 FROGGS the "ah, of course" was just because of the needed \s
13:28 colomon FROGGS: gotcha.
13:28 PerlJam good $localtime all
13:28 colomon Is this a known rakudobug?
13:29 colomon daxim: anyway, I believe the quick answer to your question is that returning a Match for everything carries more information, and it is easily converted to a list of captures if desired.
13:31 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /:ss (\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  .say for @a;
13:31 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unrecognized regex modifier :ssâ�¤at /tmp/OZ3oiBSyAB:1â�¤------> [32mmy @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /:ss[33mâ��[31m (\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  .say for @a;[0mâ�¤Â»
13:31 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /:s (\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  .say for @a;
13:31 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「foo」␤␤「bar」␤␤「baz」␤␤»
13:31 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /:s (\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  .Str.say for @a;
13:31 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤»
13:32 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /:s (\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  say @().join('|);   # curious
13:32 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'"â�¤at /tmp/RDHIC1_giW:1â�¤------> [32m)/).list;  say @().join('|);   # curious[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argumentsâ�¤        argument listâ�¤ …
13:33 pmichaud r:   my @a = ('foo bar baz' ~~ /:s (\w+) (\w+) (\w+)/).list;  say @().join('|');   # curious
13:33 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«␤»
13:33 FROGGS colomon: there is a (similar ?) bugreport about backtracking, but this one here is worth reporting
13:33 pmichaud I'm not convinced there's a bug.
13:33 FROGGS r: .Str.say for ('foo.bar.baz qix' ~~ /[(\w+)+ % '.'] (\w+)/).list; # no bug?
13:33 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤ba␤z␤»
13:33 pmichaud looking.
13:34 PerlJam um ... what's the bug?
13:34 PerlJam (or supposed bug)
13:34 colomon PerlJam: baz appears to get matched twice
13:34 PerlJam oh, I see
13:34 colomon > 'foo.bar.baz qix' ~~ /[(\w+)+ % '.'] (\w+)/
13:34 colomon 「foo.bar.baz」
13:34 colomon 0 => 「foo」
13:34 colomon 0 => 「bar」
13:34 colomon 0 => 「baz」
13:34 colomon 0 => 「ba」
13:34 colomon 1 => 「z」
13:34 FROGGS the result should be: foo bar ba z
13:35 FROGGS baz shouldnt be in $0
13:35 colomon well, ba should be
13:35 FROGGS wait, I think it is reported already
13:35 FROGGS ba is, and should be, yes
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13:38 pmichaud okay, rakudobug.
13:39 FROGGS this bug? https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116895
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13:40 pmichaud there's something else wrong here...  rakudo *is* using a pure cursor model.
13:40 pmichaud there's no notion of "take out a capture"
13:40 pmichaud the problem has to be that a cursor isn't being thrown away properly.
13:41 pmichaud r: say "abcde" ~~ / (a | b | bc | cde)+ »/
13:41 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「abcde」␤ 0 => 「a」␤ 0 => 「bc」␤ 0 => 「b」␤ 0 => 「cde」␤␤»
13:42 pmichaud r: my regex foo { a | b | bc | cde };  say "abcde" ~~ / <foo=&foo>+ » /
13:42 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«「abcde」␤ foo => 「a」␤ foo => 「bc」␤ foo => 「b」␤ foo => 「cde」␤␤»
13:44 pmichaud it's a problem from backtracking into a captured cursor
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13:53 pmichaud ummm... hrm.
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13:55 timotimo hmm. tell me again what the difference between Array and List is, in practice?
13:55 timotimo because i think i'm having a little brainfart
13:55 pmichaud an Array is a List of scalar containers
13:55 timotimo lists can be lazy, arrays can't?
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13:56 PerlJam an array is a container, a list is not :)
13:56 Teratogen I always thought a list was something like (1,2,3)
13:56 pmichaud Teratogen: that's a Parcel
13:56 pmichaud PerlJam: no, that's not really true.
13:57 pmichaud arrays can be lazy:
13:57 PerlJam It should be.  That way I don't have to change my mental model  ;)
13:57 pmichaud r: my @a = 1..*;  say @a[5];
13:57 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«6␤»
13:58 pmichaud the code handling subrule backtracking looks really... odd to me.
13:58 timotimo so, a list could contain non-scalar containers? or what does the first answer mean?
13:58 pmichaud yes, a list can contain non-scalar containers.
13:58 pmichaud no, wait.
13:59 pmichaud let me rephrase.
13:59 timotimo a hash in an array will always be inside a scalar container, but a hash in a list may be in a normal hash container, like you would get if you wrote my %foo;?
13:59 pmichaud no
13:59 pmichaud a list can contain anything, containers or bare values
14:00 timotimo hm. but what does that mean in practice?
14:00 pmichaud an array places all of its elements into scalar containers
14:00 pmichaud in practice, it means that the elements of a list can flatten, while the elements of an array do not flatten.
14:00 PerlJam Isn't there some nice documentation that elucidates the differences between Array, List, and Parcel  ?
14:00 PerlJam (If not, there should be)
14:01 pmichaud PerlJam: http://doc.perl6.org/language/containers  perhaps
14:01 timotimo if you mean "the elements of", does that mean something like @a[1], @a[2] will always be a list of at most two elements if @a is an array, but if @a is a list, it can be more elements?
14:02 timotimo in preparing for my talk which is closing in on me at a dramatic pace, i'm realising how little i actually know about perl6.
14:02 pmichaud timotimo: no, that's not what it means
14:03 pmichaud PerlJam: http://doc.perl6.org/language/containers#Scalar+Containers+and+Listy+Things   # more directly
14:03 timotimo mhm
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14:04 pmichaud my @a = <apple banana cherry>;   my $b := (1, 2, @a, 5).list;
14:04 pmichaud how many elements does $b have?
14:05 timotimo my experience would suggest it'd have 6
14:05 pmichaud that'd be correct.
14:05 pmichaud what is $b[3] ?
14:05 timotimo banana
14:06 pmichaud and if you write  $b[3] = 'berry';   will it work?
14:06 timotimo i think so, it would probably get the scalar container that was inside @a before, right?
14:06 pmichaud correct -- it would change @a[1]
14:06 pmichaud so, that's a List.  Here's an array.
14:07 pmichaud oh, before I leave the List... if you write   $b[0] = 'date'  it will fail
14:07 pmichaud because $b[0] isn't a container.
14:07 pmichaud and thus you cannot assign to it.
14:07 pmichaud so essentially, $b is a List consisting of 1, 2, @a[0], @a[1], @a[2], and 5.
14:08 pmichaud here's the array case:
14:08 pmichaud my @a = <apple banana cherry>;  my @c = (1, 2, @a, 5);
14:09 pmichaud what's @c[3] ?  ("banana")
14:09 timotimo now i could do @c[0] = "hello" and it will work, because "@c =" will create a scalar container for it, too
14:09 pmichaud correct.
14:09 pmichaud and @c[3] is no longer the same container as @a[1]
14:09 timotimo because there was no :=
14:10 timotimo and = does copy-assign for arrays
14:10 pmichaud oh, it's not a binding issue.
14:10 pmichaud my @a = <apple banana cherry>;  my $b = (1, 2, @a, 5).list;    # would have the same effect
14:10 pmichaud I probably didn't need the bind := above.
14:10 timotimo oh, ok
14:10 pmichaud A List is just a list of things.
14:11 pmichaud An Array is a List where each element has been given its own scalar container.
14:11 timotimo if i had wanted $b to contain copies of @a's containers, i'd've gone @a[] instead?
14:11 pmichaud I think @a[] still gives back the containers.
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14:12 pmichaud my @a = <apple banana cherry>;   @a[].[1] = 'berry';  say @a;
14:12 pmichaud r: my @a = <apple banana cherry>;   @a[].[1] = 'berry';  say @a;
14:12 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«apple berry cherry␤»
14:12 timotimo oh
14:12 pmichaud yeah,  .[] doesn't decontainerize.
14:12 timotimo is .clone for that?
14:12 pmichaud clone would do it, and I'm thinking that .values should do it also.
14:12 pmichaud (it probably doesn't do it at present... that's one of the List/S07 issues I still need to work out)
14:12 timotimo right, S07 is still "wip"
14:13 PerlJam timotimo: copies would have been  $b = [ 1, 2, @a, 5 ]; I think.
14:13 timotimo so it's kind of hard to not accidentally have two @vars share their content's containers
14:14 pmichaud timotimo: oh, I think it's pretty easy, in fact.
14:14 pmichaud timotimo: I mean, shared containers is actually pretty rare.
14:14 pmichaud bbiab
14:14 timotimo r: my @a = <apple banana cherry>; my $b = [ 1, 2, @a, 5 ]; say $b; $b[3] = "foo"; say $b;
14:14 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«1 2 apple banana cherry 5␤1 2 apple foo cherry 5␤»
14:15 timotimo r: my @a = <apple banana cherry>; my $b = [ 1, 2, @a, 5 ]; say @a; $b[3] = "foo"; say $a;
14:15 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable '$a' is not declared. Did you mean '@a'?â�¤at /tmp/ieRa9M06MS:1â�¤------> [32m, @a, 5 ]; say @a; $b[3] = "foo"; say $a[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
14:15 timotimo r: my @a = <apple banana cherry>; my $b = [ 1, 2, @a, 5 ]; say @a; $b[3] = "foo"; say @a;
14:15 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«apple banana cherry␤apple banana cherry␤»
14:15 timotimo uh huh
14:15 timotimo i'll get back to cleaning
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14:19 pmichaud yeah, the nqp code for handling backtracking into captured subrules isn't correct.
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14:58 dalek v5: ffbff34 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
14:58 dalek v5: allow anonymous subs
14:58 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/ffbff34cc6
15:08 pmichaud 09:04 <bbkr> pmichaud: HTTP::Easy or JSON::RPC does not work in star RC (after request is sent to server it does not return response). I'm  debugging it right now
15:09 pmichaud 09:12 <bbkr> can you please run following code on Star RC:  use HTTP::Easy::PSGI; my $app = sub (%env) { print %env.perl; return [ 204, [ ], [  ] ]; }; my $psgi = HTTP::Easy::PSGI.new( host => "", port => 8080); $psgi.app( $app ); $psgi.run;
15:09 pmichaud bbkr:  did that used to work in previous versions of Star?
15:09 pmichaud I just tried it in 2013.02 and 2012.12 and it seems to fail in those versions also.
15:10 bbkr checking 2013.02...
15:10 pmichaud I only want to block releases on regressions.
15:10 pmichaud if a problem isn't a regression, it doesn't have to block the release.
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15:12 pmurias pmichaud: I'm supposed to contact you about what I'm supposed to do during the community bondind period, is just hacking on the javascript backend ok?
15:14 pmichaud pmurias: since you're already familiar with the community, I suspect that getting started on the backend is okay.
15:15 pmichaud I'll re-review all of the guidelines tomorrow-ish to make sure we're not overlooking something important.
15:17 bbkr pmichaud: 2013.02 is also broken. I know it is not regression but IMO in this case if you do not want to block release broken modules should be removed from *.
15:18 pmichaud are you saying that those modules are essentially useless?  when were they added to R*, and were they working then?
15:22 bbkr They were working at some point. I remember I was using PSGI server in 2012.11 or 2013.01 star releases
15:22 pmichaud I can try 2013.01.
15:23 Teratogen pmichaud, you slept three hours?
15:23 pmichaud Teratogen: less, actually :)
15:23 Teratogen ok
15:23 pmichaud had to get up and get kids to school
15:24 Teratogen ah
15:24 Teratogen your spawn
15:24 pmichaud actually, not even that.  :)
15:24 Teratogen so, you reproduced?
15:24 pmichaud officially, they're my stepkids
15:24 Teratogen ah
15:24 Teratogen you should have a kid of your own though
15:24 Teratogen don't you want to pass on your superior genes?
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15:25 pmichaud getting a little late for that for me.  :)
15:25 Teratogen baw, men can sire children up into their eighties
15:25 pmichaud Teratogen: not on their own, they can't.  :)
15:25 Teratogen just need to find a young willing woman
15:25 Teratogen young and willing
15:25 Teratogen =)
15:25 Teratogen wait is this all being recorded?
15:25 pmichaud and I'd have to get the approval of the one I have now.  :)
15:26 moritz Teratogen: please simply stop being off-topic
15:26 moritz Teratogen: even if it's not logged, it's still annoying
15:26 Teratogen ok =(
15:26 moritz Teratogen: and this is your last warning.
15:34 bbkr pmichaud: I don't have star 2013.01 installed, I've tested pure 2012.12 with HTTP::Easy installed also in 2012 (those versions I had already built) and it works fine.
15:35 pmichaud https://gist.github.com/pmichaud/5671235  # here's what I get with 2012.12
15:36 bbkr this was fixed in https://github.com/supernovus/perl6-http-easy/issues/6
15:38 bbkr "bbkr closed the issue 4 months ago". so 2013.01 might be last working * release with HTTP::Easy.
15:39 pmichaud I don't follow that.
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15:42 pmichaud Here's the question we're trying to answer:  Are there any R* users that are currently using HTTP::Easy or JSON::RPC from a previous R* release that would be unable to do so in the new R* release?
15:43 bbkr yes. regression happened not on 2013.05 RC candidate but probably in 2013.02. but if someone is using 2013.01 and updates he will end up with broken HTTP::Easy based servers
15:44 pmichaud do we have an example of an HTTP::Easy program that works in 2013.01 but not in 2013.05rc1 ?
15:44 pmichaud or, perhaps alternatively, is this a regression that you expect will be able to be fixed in the next 48 hours?
15:45 bbkr do you have 2013.01 compiled?
15:45 pmichaud yes.
15:46 bbkr what is the result trying the same one-liner as you just tried on 2012.12 ?
15:46 pmichaud https://gist.github.com/pmichaud/5671320  # result with R* 2013.01
15:48 RandalSchwartz left #perl6
15:49 bbkr oh, so binary string bug was still there. to summarize 2012.12 and 2013.01 were broken due to binary string bug and 2013.02 and 2013.05RC are broken due to infinite wait bug. so my bad - there was no working * release with HTTP::Easy since 2012.12
15:50 moritz then we should please release R* asap, and later investigate what to do with HTTP::Easy
15:50 pmichaud afaik, I have no other blockers on 2013.05rc1
15:50 pmichaud which means it can become the 2013.05 release.
15:51 moritz I had an intermittent test failure with lwp-simple, but on the next 5 runs it didn't show up anymore
15:51 pmichaud I can put a note in the announcement that acknowledges a known problem with HTTP::easy
15:51 bbkr I'm not familiar with PSGI protocol, I cannot fix HTTP::Easy within 48 hours
15:51 bbkr LWP::Simple contains live test and it fails very often
15:52 pmichaud yesterday LWP::Simple was failing for me when feather was thrashing.
15:52 bbkr I mean the server that LWP tries to connect to
15:52 pmichaud I suspect that's because it's trying to connect to perl6.org (which is hosted on feather or something like that)
15:53 pmichaud might be better to connect to somewhere like example.com or something like that.
15:54 bbkr https://github.com/supernovus/perl6-http-easy/issues/7 - this stalling issue looks familiar
15:55 pmichaud bbkr: thanks for the outstanding and quick reports on the rc candidate, btw
15:58 daniel-s joined #perl6
15:59 bbkr :)
16:00 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
16:00 timotimo suddenly a clicking noise emerges from my head, as I understand why "foo".IO ~~ :e works
16:01 PerlJam .oO( timotimo is some form of insect?!? )
16:01 pmichaud I'm afk for a while.
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16:10 bbkr pmichaud: I've found also that HTTP::Easy in https://github.com/supernovus/perl6-http-easy/commit/c0bc1ebbd2a545448343a5ed8a9df64889d16b7d requires PSGI helper and https://github.com/supernovus/perl6-psgi is not in ecosystem
16:10 domidumont1 joined #perl6
16:13 bbkr oh, nvm, my panda list was outdated
16:14 adu joined #perl6
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16:31 bbkr pmichaud: I've nailed the issue with HTTP::Easy. it contains hack here: https://github.com/supernovus/perl6-http-easy/blob/master/lib/HTTP/Easy.pm6#L58-61 after removing those lines it responds and JSON::RPC works also
16:34 colomon_ joined #perl6
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16:50 bbkr pmichaud: I cannot track which IO::Socket::INET bug was this hack for. IO:: had major changes lately and looks like hack is now getting in our way instead of helping. I'm building RC2 - http://bbkr.org/~bbkr/rakudo-star-2013.05-rc2.tar.gz
16:52 adu joined #perl6
16:56 flussence bbkr: IIRc that one happened a few months ago along with the other parrot IO fallout
16:59 Chillance joined #perl6
17:11 bbkr pmichaud: my RC2 works (tested on OS X 10.7), HTTP::Easy responds, JSON::RPC also does client-server communication without problems
17:12 bbkr got to go now
17:17 lizmat bbkr: thank you!
17:18 pecastro joined #perl6
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17:35 [Coke] Note that there have been failures on star related modules tests on feather for me for about a week now.
17:35 [Coke] (so this a) needs a test and b) we need to bump versions included by R* to grab the test)
17:40 dalek specs: 617f456 | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
17:40 dalek specs: be clearer that lsb/msb look for 1 bits
17:40 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/617f456afe
17:42 konundra joined #perl6
17:46 colomon TimToady++
17:50 colomon hmmm, bitwise negation is.... +^?
17:55 TimToady yes, which is what you'd want to search for the first 0 bit :)
17:56 TimToady lsb and msb are common in the culture, but maybe they should be dehuffmanized
17:58 colomon TimToady: very nice, yes, I was looking at the wrong formula.  ;)
17:58 TimToady I think libtommath has an lsb finder in there somewhere
17:59 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3ce716d | coke++ | / (4 files):
17:59 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:59 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/3ce716d818
17:59 [Coke] niecza has been dirty for 316 days. pugs has been clean for 12 days. rakudo has been clean for 1 day.
17:59 colomon method lsb() { self +& -self } appears to work to get the least 1 bit
18:00 colomon but its value, not its position
18:00 [Coke] so, one of those recent IO changes avoids the error
18:01 TimToady well, but it's unlikely to be fast for huge numbers, if there's a low-level routine in C that can do it by examining the words from smallest to largest
18:01 [Coke] wondering if it's the $.path vs $!path
18:01 * colomon grumbles at TimToady's annoying correctness
18:03 TimToady well, the point is to have an optimizable target, not necessarily to optimize it right off the bat
18:03 TimToady would rather have the functionality first, so I can write RC code with it :)
18:03 colomon TimToady: no, now you've got me coding in C#
18:04 nwc10 what's the leaderboard on RC these days?
18:04 pmichaud bbkr: did you patch the upstream source or just the file directly in the R* tarball?
18:05 TimToady Tcl, Python, C, J, PicoLisp, Racket, Perl 6, D
18:05 pmichaud (looks like bbkr left.)  :-(
18:05 TimToady we were briefly ahead of Racket last night :)
18:13 nwc10 but they keep fighting back?
18:13 colomon n: say 16.ln2
18:13 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ln2 in type Int␤  at /tmp/QWZwoij5T6 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home/p6…
18:13 nwc10 or, I guess, more accurately and diplomatically - people are also actively contributing Racket solutions?
18:13 colomon n: say 16.log2
18:13 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method log2 in type Int␤  at /tmp/fq7vPmU9Mu line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home/p…
18:13 colomon n: say 16.log(2)
18:14 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«4␤»
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18:35 colomon TimToady: is there some obvious non-iterative way to calculate msb?
18:40 TimToady well, if you know how many words are in the internal storage of, you generally only have to look in the top word
18:40 TimToady for arbitrary ints
18:41 Teratogen how would you get the msb in C?
18:41 Teratogen just right shift until ...
18:41 TimToady for sized ints, you can do like the C solution in http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Find_first_and_last_set_bit_of_a_long_integer#C
18:41 Teratogen no wait
18:42 [Coke] Are we allowing msb functions on, say, Int? or just int ?
18:43 TimToady why would we restrict it?
18:43 [Coke] Why would we expose the internals of our non machine classes? ;)
18:44 TimToady of course, msb on a negative Int is +Inf
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18:45 TimToady you can do 2's complement in arbitrary precision as long as you have a way of representing an infinite number of 1 bits :)
18:46 TimToady so we can maintain that abstraction without saying how it's actually done internally
18:47 TimToady (which is just as likely to be 1's complement, but we don't care as long as the API is 2's complement)
18:47 TimToady which is specced, btw, at S02:702
18:50 TimToady but I probably need more clarification of msb semantics there...
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19:02 [Coke] mob
19:07 Teratogen wait for msb, why not just convert the int to binary, turn the binary into a string of 1s and 0s
19:07 Teratogen and then look at the first character?
19:08 Teratogen man, sometimes I am so smart I scare myself
19:10 Teratogen no, wait
19:11 Teratogen that can't work, it's too simple and clear
19:11 Teratogen I must be doing something wrong
19:12 timotimo also, it's wasteful IMO. you should be able to do without the string conversion step by using bitwise operations
19:13 dalek specs: 949c62a | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
19:13 dalek specs: explain what lsb and msb do for 0 and negatives
19:13 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/949c62adef
19:15 TimToady Teratogen: yes, the point of having them as built-ins is to do something efficient rather than something elegant
19:15 Cugel left #perl6
19:16 PerlJam TimToady: beware the tyranny of the "or"  ;)
19:16 TimToady in this case, I suspect tyranny is a necessary evil
19:18 TimToady and if the elegant happens to coincide with the efficient, it's usually due to the tyranny of the optimizer
19:25 PacoAir joined #perl6
19:33 snearch_ joined #perl6
19:40 dalek rakudo-star-daily: bc6b486 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
19:40 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:40 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/bc6b486747
19:41 adu joined #perl6
19:43 kshannon joined #perl6
19:45 [Coke] panda is running (and passing) one more test.
19:47 konundra joined #perl6
19:48 PerlJam I typed "perl6" at an ubuntu command prompt on a machine that didn't have rakudo compiled and it said "The program 'perl6' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install rakudo"
19:48 PerlJam while not amazing, that's still quite neat :)
19:48 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
19:48 Teratogen that is pretty neat
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20:27 timotimo i'm happy than i can do CALLER::<$=pod>
20:27 axesar joined #perl6
20:29 timotimo what's the idea behind not setting the $.level of "=item" to 1?
20:33 domidumont joined #perl6
20:35 bbkr joined #perl6
20:36 dalek ecosystem: ec8ff52 | Dagur++ | META.list:
20:36 dalek ecosystem: added GD::Raw
20:36 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/ec8ff5231b
20:36 bruges joined #perl6
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20:42 bbkr pmichaud: just the file. I've also contacted with Supernovus through https://github.com/rakudo/star/issues/22 so he can patch the source module
20:47 [Coke] Regarding this failure - is there a test now?
20:48 japhb_ joined #perl6
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21:15 Khisanth joined #perl6
21:16 [Coke] bbkr?
21:19 labster yay, I fixed the heisenbug!  I have no idea how!
21:22 lizmat it's the only way!
21:28 masak "yay, I fixed the mandelbug" -- "so you believe..."
21:28 sorear mandelbugs?  are those named after benoit mandelbrot?
21:29 masak "A mandelbug (named after Benoît Mandelbrot's fractal) is a bug whose causes are so complex it defies repair, or makes its behavior appear chaotic or even non-deterministic." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenbug
21:31 [Coke] "Now you're just making stuff up"
21:32 [Coke] however, the schrödinbug is a real thing. I find those all the time. :|
21:32 labster Or they find you
21:32 huf bad old code is always full of mandelbugs.
21:32 Boohbah joined #perl6
21:32 huf or when the problem itself was never defined... :D
21:33 Teratogen I am a big fan of cargo cult programming myself
21:33 PacoAir joined #perl6
21:35 labster Ubuntu's rakudo package is six months old.  We should probably replace that soon.
21:37 [Coke] "we" ?
21:37 [Coke] that's not under our control, is it?
21:38 * [Coke] wonders what the ports stance is on something like rakudo with multiple possible dependency chains.
21:40 splitcells joined #perl6
21:42 labster Well, someone has to submit .debs
21:43 GlitchMr joined #perl6
21:43 [Coke] ah. last I remember hearing, ubuntu is only going to pull things every so often anyway, so there's no point in updating them frequently.
21:43 [Coke] ... that said, we could probably automate the generate of whatever they need.
21:45 labster We should probably offer multiple packages.  I wonder if we could have a rakudo-jvm and a rakudo-parrot with different config files, both of which depend on rakudo-core or something.
21:46 [Coke] eh. if we're bundling it based on a release, why try to separate out the core?
21:47 [Coke] the only person we really help is the person who installs both.
21:47 [Coke] (that said, if it's easy, sure.)
21:49 tgt joined #perl6
21:52 pmichaud AFAICT, someone else squatted on the rakudo packaging for ubuntu/debian
21:52 pmichaud we can certainly start building our own, however.
21:52 pmichaud fsvo "we"
21:53 pmichaud I'd like to automate .deb and .rpm generation; I've just not had the tuits to tackle it myself yet.
21:53 xilo joined #perl6
21:53 pmichaud I do expect the build systems are going to want some attention in the next months though; the jvm build system was "make it work" more than anything else, and we'll soon be adding a javascript backend as well.
21:56 proller joined #perl6
21:57 splitcells joined #perl6
21:57 bbkr [Coke]: yes?
21:57 bbkr sorry, I was afk
21:59 irdan joined #perl6
21:59 bbkr and there is no test for HTTP::Easy as it requires forking to perform one
22:00 [Coke] ok. but without a test, it will break again.
22:01 [Coke] is there a ticket somewhere saying we need a test?
22:01 flussence I wrote a thing for that, but it's kinda impossible to use effectively without an actual fork() function or built in IPC: https://github.com/flussence/Test-ClientServer
22:03 pmurias joined #perl6
22:03 pmichaud one could potentially test using shell() or run()
22:03 bbkr [Coke], I posted issue. Supernovus is module author, I'm not sure if he plans to add tests without fork available. and mocking IO::Socket::INET is pointless as most of recent bugs came from there and underlying parrot
22:04 pmichaud I've also been wondering if Rakudo (Star) should fork the module repos that it includes, to provide some ability to vary from upstream versions of the modules.
22:04 bbkr shell() or run() detach process?
22:04 pmichaud I'm pretty sure shell() can background a process.
22:04 pmichaud but clearly we have some way of testing client/server stuff in the spec repo
22:05 pmichaud er, roast repo
22:05 pmichaud so I'm not sure that fork() is a prerequisite for writing a test.
22:06 bbkr I don't recall any method that guarantees clean exit, ie. without leaving detached process that carshed or something
22:06 bbkr crashed*
22:07 pmichaud I know that IO-Socket-INET.t uses qqx{} to run a separate process for testing its client server stuff.
22:07 pmichaud so clearly it's _possible_ in current Rakudo.
22:09 bbkr I'll take a look at it and also on flussences module. JSON::RPC also does not have complete code coverage in tests so that may be double-useful. thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
22:09 daniel-s joined #perl6
22:11 pmichaud I don't think I want to make a Star release that has uncommitted patches in it.
22:11 pmichaud (Perhaps that will be a necessary step, I'm just not sure I'm ready to make it this month)
22:13 bbkr Supernovus already responded in HTTP::Easy issue and I think he will remove this hack that breaks things very soon
22:18 bbkr another idea is to fork only those Star modules that break things in newest versions. and removing forks once pull requests with fixes are applied in original repos. managing all module forks is pointless.
22:18 pmichaud well, eventually there needs to be a way for module authors to identify "this is the stable version to include"
22:19 pmichaud whether that's through release tarballs (a la CPAN) or specialized tags or ... whatever, we need to have some ability to easily sync modules bundled with Rakudo with non-head versions of the repos
22:20 bbkr maybe fat tags? git external points to fixed commit so tools are already there, only procedures are needed
22:20 pmichaud and it shouldn't be solely up to the downstream packagers to decide where the valid "safe" commit points are.
22:21 pmichaud s/decide/figure out/
22:23 lizmat pmichaud: hopefully we can discuss this in Austin and work this out, including other packaging related issues?
22:23 chrisdev joined #perl6
22:23 pmichaud lizmat: yes, I'd very much like that.  I suspect we'll end up with short, medium, and long-term plans here.
22:24 lizmat cool: we've just about packed here, getting a few hours of sleep before we need to get on the road
22:24 pmichaud note that currently I'm not expecting to arrive in Austin until Saturday evening, and my trip may be cut short on the back end
22:24 lizmat in ~24 hours from now, we should be in Austin
22:24 lizmat that's clear: jnthn and masak are leaving on Sun...
22:25 lizmat we just wanted some extra days in Austin before needing to get back for the French Perl Workshop  :-)
22:26 masak no, we're leaving on Sat.
22:26 pmichaud I should probably update the wiki
22:26 lizmat ah, ok
22:26 lizmat *phew*
22:27 bbkr there are 176 packages in ecosystem and about 30 in Star, it would be nice to refresh what Star bundle contains, many new modules appeared since Star list was "composed"
22:27 pmichaud throughout the trip I'll have to be checking in with Paula with some frequency, and may have to head back to Dallas if things get dicey
22:27 pmichaud bbkr: I don't want to add a lot more to Star until we have a better process for managing modules, though.
22:27 pmichaud as it is, the 30 modules we have now have held up releasing star for several months :-/
22:28 pmichaud adding more will just make that problem worse.
22:28 pmichaud (okay, not all 30 modules held up the release, but the more dependencies we add the more likely there are to be problems)
22:29 bbkr also included modules needs better tests to detect regression earlier. most of star/ecosystem modules are very undertested, they sometimes contain only module loading code as the only test.
22:32 skids_ joined #perl6
22:33 bbkr good night perl6
22:38 chrisdev joined #perl6
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23:00 thou joined #perl6
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23:07 grondilu joined #perl6
23:08 grondilu n: say .perl given my $ = <foo bar>, <0 1>;
23:08 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«($("foo", "bar"), (val("0"), val("1")))␤»
23:08 grondilu rn: say .perl given my @ = <foo bar>, <0 1>;
23:08 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«["foo", "bar", val("0"), val("1")].list␤»
23:08 camelia ..rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«["foo", "bar", "0", "1"]␤»
23:09 grondilu rn: say .perl given my $ = <foo bar>, <0 1>;
23:09 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«$($("foo", "bar"), ("0", "1"))␤»
23:09 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«($("foo", "bar"), (val("0"), val("1")))␤»
23:10 grondilu rn: say .elems given my $ = <foo bar>, <0 1>;
23:10 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:10 camelia ..rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«3␤»
23:10 grondilu rn: say .elems given my $ = <foo bar>, ^2;
23:10 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:10 camelia ..rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«3␤»
23:10 grondilu rn: say .elems given my $ = <foo bar>, <fooagain baragain>;
23:10 camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:10 camelia ..rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«3␤»
23:11 grondilu rn: say .elems given my $ = (<foo bar>, <fooagain baragain>);
23:11 camelia rakudo 8a0859: OUTPUT«4␤»
23:11 camelia ..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:11 grondilu wtf
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