Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-06-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 timotimo r: macro foo() { }; foo;
00:05 camelia rakudo b2072f:  ( no output )
00:07 lue r: macro foo ($flag) { quasi { say 42 } if $flag }; foo(1);
00:07 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«42␤»
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00:24 dalek niecza: 88ee1d8 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/niecza:
00:24 dalek niecza: %*CUSTOM_LIB needs to be in @*INC, too.
00:24 dalek niecza:
00:24 dalek niecza: Not that @*INC actually works in Niecza, but this patch has the same effect.
00:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/88ee1d83a1
00:28 colomon afk # heading to figure out how to go to the pub
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00:56 dalek perl6-roast-data: ff5de20 | coke++ | / (4 files):
00:56 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:56 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/ff5de2039e
00:58 xilo r:
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01:02 [Coke] (has a 1 at the end) - oh, like you need to add defensively to avoid sink context woes? ;)
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01:09 dalek rakudo-star-daily: ff4acf2 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
01:09 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:09 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/ff4acf2de0
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02:30 masak lue: that's a bug.
02:30 * masak submits rakudobug
02:31 masak or, hm.
02:31 masak I'm not sure.
02:31 masak but it's worth filing anyway :)
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02:40 * sorear has arrived at the doubletree
02:41 jnthn sorear: On IDE, I was using Eclipse. But these days am back to just normal editor. On dumping, there's no current way to dump them aside from those things that have a .dump method already.
02:41 jnthn (Though we could add some REPR-level dumping support quite easily I guess...)
02:41 jnthn (I just never needed it to debug stuff...)
02:46 sorear I see
02:47 sorear lots of room for me to add stuff :)
02:52 jnthn Yes :)
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02:56 masak r: grammar Brackets::Balanced { token TOP { ^ <balanced>? $ }; token balanced { '[' <balanced>? ']' <balanced>? }; method ACCEPTS($string) { ?self.parse($string) } }; say "[][]" ~~ Brackets::Balanced; say "][" ~~ Brackets::Balanced
02:56 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
02:56 * masak cackles
02:58 sorear where are masakjnthn now?
02:58 masak I... almost find myself wishing that was built into grammars.
02:58 masak sorear: doubletree.
02:58 masak room.
02:59 sorear ah.
02:59 * sorear still in lobby
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03:40 Jimmy__ [Coke]: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ommit/1b6fc75eff2ca2f70cd843c360a7​986774aed1c6#commitcomment-3337328
03:59 dalek v5: a411981 | (Tobias Leich)++ | Makefile:
03:59 dalek v5: added "make path/to/testfile.t"-option
03:59 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/a411981382
03:59 dalek v5: 659a3cc | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
03:59 dalek v5: remove color codes better
03:59 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/659a3cc269
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04:47 dalek panda: 815fab5 | dukeleto++ | README.md:
04:47 dalek panda: [doc] Make reference links render more nicely
04:47 dalek panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/815fab5a2f
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04:51 moritz good morning
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04:52 masak moritz: good night ;)
04:52 masak 'night, #perl6
04:54 moritz good knight, masak
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05:04 colomon \o
05:06 pmichaud o/
05:08 colomon How was Hula Hut?
05:09 PerlJam g'night from the dorms all  :)  See y'all tomorrow!
05:09 pmichaud pretty nice
05:09 pmichaud food was quite good, conversations were tasty also
05:10 colomon I had a fine time at the Irish pub, played music for three hours and got to catch up with some old acquaintances.
05:10 pmichaud niiiiice
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05:12 pmichaud I think I'm off to sleep --- bbl
05:13 colomon ditto
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07:05 moritz .tell masak this one was written for you, I believe: http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/
07:05 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to masak.
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09:03 mathw Good morning #perl6
09:06 moritz \o mathw
09:14 mathw hi moritz
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10:52 atroxaper Does anybody know where i can read about command line options standard?
10:53 Doom-RiderZ joined #perl6
10:53 Ulti atroxaper do you mean command line flags in general what format they should take?
10:53 Ulti like single or double - etc.
10:54 Doom-RiderZ anyone here ,
10:54 atroxaper Ulti: yes. I'm going to write smart parser.
10:55 atroxaper Doom-RiderZ: o/
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10:55 Ulti atroxaper Getopt is the defacto standard afaik
10:58 atroxaper I thinks yes. I just want to train my perl6 and i'm interested in command line parser.
10:58 Ulti atroxaper: I guess take a look at what MAIN does for you for free in perl6 as a start
10:58 Ulti not sure if the perl6 spec defines binding a hash or an array
10:59 Ulti like getopts long in perl5
11:00 atroxaper I look MAIN function already, yes. It isn't too reach like getopts.
11:01 eternaleye Ulti: P6 allows you to specify via function signatures, and even do multi dispatch.
11:02 Ulti eternaleye: yeah, but does it let you do something like --key=val1 --key=val2 to bind a hash called key in the parameter list of MAIN?
11:03 Ulti well more like --hash=key,val even
11:03 * Ulti plays to find out
11:12 Ulti hmm weird I keep getting the usage string telling me it needs an associative value passed in but no idea on the format
11:14 atroxaper Do you read http://perl6maven.com/parsing​-command-line-arguments-perl6 ?
11:15 Ulti atroxaper: that doesnt have an example of passing in a hash value?
11:15 moritz looking at src/core/Main.pm, it seems to have no idea how to turn anything into a hash
11:16 atroxaper no...
11:16 Ulti doesn't tell you it can't though just that you haven't passed in an associative value :S
11:16 Ulti ^latest rakudo*
11:17 moritz r: sub MAIN(%h) { }
11:17 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Usage:␤  /tmp/vSLsq1C6Xb <h> ␤»
11:18 Ulti I did :%h so it was a named parameter rather than positional
11:20 Ulti r: sub MAIN(:%h) {}
11:20 camelia rakudo b2072f:  ( no output )
11:21 Ulti I get ./opts.p6 [--hash=<Associative>] for my snipped which is just that main with a say %hash.perl on the inside
11:22 moritz r: sub MAIN(:%h!) {}
11:22 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Usage:␤  /tmp/BHTxGFE3eO -h=<Associative> ␤»
11:28 atroxaper I how we can pass values to that? )
11:28 moritz 13:15 < moritz> looking at src/core/Main.pm, it seems to have no idea how to turn  anything into a hash
11:28 moritz by patching rakudo
11:28 Ulti :)
11:29 atroxaper Oh. I see. Thank! moritz, maybe you know where i can see standard for command line arguments?
11:30 moritz S19 is the spec, but I don't know how detailed it is
11:30 Ulti yeah weird even slurping into a hash doesn't work but does work for a list, guess hashes and lists aren't even vaguely the same in perl6
11:30 Ulti thats in the synopsis for MAIN too
11:31 Ulti moritz it only outlines doing something like MAIN(*%options)
11:33 Ulti this feels like the sort of patch I might actually be able to pull off...
11:34 nwc10 "I love it when a patch comes together"?
11:41 Ulti yeah in fact the TODO says everything I tried is needed like giving quoted perl6 literals and comma delimited lists
11:46 * colomon is trying to figure out why the new modules aren't showing up in the smoke results.
11:46 arnsholt o/
11:47 colomon well, to be precise, I know why Phaser::ATEXIT didn't show up, and I fixed that.  But I can't figure out why Image::Resize didn't show up.
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11:54 moritz does it appear in the emmentaler json output?
11:55 colomon nope
11:56 moritz maybe the projects.json list wasn't up to date when running emmentaller?
11:57 colomon the smoke script grabs the latest projects.json from feather before it starts
11:57 colomon Image::Resize isn't there.
11:58 colomon http://feather.perl6.nl:3000/projects.json
11:59 moritz 1;0 moritz@feather:~$ sudo netstat -tulpen|grep 3000
11:59 moritz [sudo] password for moritz:
11:59 moritz tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:3000            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      1002       626677      20722/perl
11:59 moritz 1;0 moritz@feather:~$ ps aux | grep 20722
11:59 moritz tjs      20722  0.0  0.4  17828  5508 pts/1    S+   Feb07   0:07 perl modules/bin/app.pl
11:59 moritz so, a job for tadzik to figure out
12:00 colomon that means feather is working normally?
12:00 colomon (I mean, for these purposes.)
12:00 moritz I just tracked down the process listening on port 3000 to tjs aka tadzik, nothing more
12:02 colomon moritz: ah!
12:02 moritz it seems the meta list updates once per day
12:02 moritz maybe it just ran when github had a hiccup
12:02 * moritz runs it again
12:04 moritz .ask tadzik if the code behind feather.perl6.nl:3000 is on github, and if yes, where? (and if not, could you please publish it?)
12:04 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
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12:41 * jnthn yawns
12:42 colomon \o
12:43 moritz o/
12:43 * lizmat is eating yellow Rainier cherries
12:43 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 623eeb3 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ (2 files):
12:43 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Add a couple of missing .^mro methods.
12:43 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/623eeb3434
12:43 * jnthn is in the hotel room, enjoying the cool and still waking up :)
12:45 jnthn .oO( I love the smell of MOP patches in the morning... )
12:46 ajr joined #perl6
12:46 arnsholt jnthn: Update on the stuff we talked about yesterday, the storage_spec for the native callsite is flagged as inlineable
12:46 arnsholt $9 = {inlineable = 1, bits = 512, align = 8, boxed_primitive = 0, can_box = 0}
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12:50 nwc10 jnthn: hotel aircon better than conference aircon?
12:51 lizmat hotel aircon is louder
12:51 arnsholt That's true
12:53 nwc10 YAPC Noisy Aircon?
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13:02 jnthn arnsholt: Hm, interesting...
13:02 colomon rn: say "t/spec".path.WHAT
13:02 jnthn Heading to venue, bbs
13:02 camelia niecza v24-57-g88ee1d8: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method path in type Str␤  at /tmp/os1Cnh3aZS line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4341 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4342 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤  at /home/p…
13:02 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«(IO::Path)␤»
13:02 colomon is Str.path really supposed to be there?
13:03 colomon It's not mentioned in S32/Str
13:03 moritz it's probably in IO somewhere
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13:03 moritz but yes, it's supposed to be there
13:03 moritz and if it's not specced, it needs to be specced
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13:21 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
13:22 pmichaud I prepared a response to the podcast transcribed at https://gist.github.com/ribasushi/5670006
13:23 pmichaud my draft reply is at https://gist.github.com/pmi​chaud/339fed007ee7e1239e1a
13:23 pmichaud comments welcomed
13:24 daxim drama!
13:24 pmichaud haven't decided whether to post it yet (e.g. on my blog), but it was a topic yesterday at the hackathon and dinner so I thought I'd at least draft a response and see how it looked.
13:24 pmichaud I'm heading to conference venue... bbiab
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13:37 sorear good * #perl6
13:39 tadzik hello #perl6
13:39 yoleaux 12:04Z <moritz> tadzik: if the code behind feather.perl6.nl:3000 is on github, and if yes, where? (and if not, could you please publish it?)
13:39 tadzik yoleaux: no, yes. I shall
13:39 tadzik er
13:40 tadzik moritz: not on github, I will publish it soonish
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13:45 sorear o/ tadzik
13:45 tadzik oh hai
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13:56 masak mornin', mornin', mornin', all y'all
13:56 yoleaux 07:05Z <moritz> masak: this one was written for you, I believe: http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/
13:56 colomon o/
13:57 masak moritz: indeed; I found it yesterday. fantastic.
13:57 masak moritz: not enough focus on the rhombic board common in Hex, but otherwise really really nice.
13:57 masak moritz: I'm hoping for a future web with slick interactive diagrams like that.
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14:03 avuserow masak, moritz: regarding hexagon grids, I found this recently: http://keekerdc.com/2011/03/hexagon-grids-co​ordinate-systems-and-distance-calculations/
14:05 avuserow (dunno if that's the sort of thing you're interested in regarding them)
14:05 colomon pmichaud: looks like a good response to me.
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14:18 dalek niecza: 7c7c2ff | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
14:18 dalek niecza: Add Str.path.
14:18 dalek niecza:
14:18 dalek niecza: Doesn't really do the right thing, as it's not an IO::Path, but it works well enough for many purposes.
14:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7c7c2ffa19
14:18 dalek niecza: ae1f8dc | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/niecza:
14:18 dalek niecza: Basic support for PERL6LIB.
14:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ae1f8dc540
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14:19 masak pmichaud++ # "I frankly think it's hugely disrespectful" @ https://gist.github.com/pmi​chaud/339fed007ee7e1239e1a
14:19 masak pmichaud++ # last paragraph of https://gist.github.com/pmi​chaud/339fed007ee7e1239e1a
14:19 Teratogen hello
14:20 masak avuserow: looks interesting. thank you.
14:21 atroxaper Does anybody know why example from http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/2009/12/04/day-4-testing/ doesn't work? I got "Calling 'fac' will never work with argument types (str) (lines 16, 16)\n\tExpected: :(Int $n)". But if i make separate module with fac and separate file with tests all tests works well.
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14:25 moritz atroxaper: the problem is that when I wrote that code, we didn't have any detection of argument type mismatches at compile time
14:25 moritz atroxaper: so the last line used to complain at run time
14:25 moritz atroxaper: now it complains at compile time, which makes the whole test file not run
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14:26 moritz atroxaper: so now you'd have to write  eval_dies_ok q[fac('oh noes i am a string')], 'Can only call it with ints';
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14:29 atroxaper moritz, thaks! It remains to understand why i have to use that brackets xD
14:30 moritz atroxaper: it's just a convenient way to create a string with single quotes inside
14:30 atroxaper Oh... it just string parameter.
14:30 moritz you can write "fac('...')" if you prefer
14:31 atroxaper Yes. I understood already. Thank you.
14:32 atroxaper moritz, but why it was work with separate files?
14:33 moritz atroxaper: it shouldn't. What exactly did you do?
14:34 daxim I'm packaging nqp-2013.05, I get this rpmlint warning:  http://paste.scsys.co.uk/252884
14:34 daxim is it justified or spurious?
14:36 atroxaper one file: " use v6; module Mo; our sub fac(int $n) {[*] 1..$n;} " second file " use v6; use Mo; use Test; plan 1; dies_ok { Mo::fac('oh noes i am a string') }, 'Can only call it with ints'; "
14:37 moritz atroxaper: ah, I guess it doesn't check arguments of functions from namespaces at compile time
14:38 atroxaper moritz, cool sideeffect xD
14:40 moritz atroxaper: we tend to use lexical functions and export/import them in Perl 6
14:44 atroxaper moritz, ok. I'll read about that.
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15:23 samlh pmichaud: s/vanguished/vanquished/
15:24 colomon joined #perl6
15:24 colomon o\ from the p6 room
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15:28 geekosaur anguished vanquishment?
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15:33 colomon labster: does dir return IO::Paths now?
15:40 colomon labster: okay, I looked at the spec.
15:40 colomon this is a complication
15:40 pmichaud daxim: I've not seen that warning before.
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15:40 daxim what should I do?
15:44 pmichaud daxim: I'm not sure.  I don't know who may have been running rpmlint.
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15:45 pmichaud looking
15:46 daxim http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:P​ackaging_checks#executable-stack  http://www.gentoo.org/proj​/en/hardened/gnu-stack.xml  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Pa​ckaging_tricks#Executable_stack
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15:48 sqirrel hey there, someone seen froggs?
15:49 moritz .seen FROGGS
15:49 yoleaux I saw FROGGS 2 Jun 2013 22:44Z in #perl6: <FROGGS> maybe you have to read that backwards
15:49 pmichaud daxim: do any of the other files give that error, or just nqp_dyncall_ops.* ?
15:49 colomon I saw FROGGS in the room about ten minutes ago...
15:49 daxim just that file
15:49 colomon and he's still there.
15:49 colomon labster: starting to steal your code for Niecza now.  :)
15:50 pmichaud that's... a little bizarre
15:50 sqirrel @colomon please tell him to contact me
15:50 labster colomon: cool
15:51 pmichaud jnthn: can you think of any reason why nqp_dyncall.ops would want its stack to be marked as executable?
15:51 colomon sqirrel: it's a lecture, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get his attention without making a fuss
15:51 colomon sqirrel: I think labster++ may have just done it.
15:51 sqirrel ah no problem it isnt that urgent
15:53 labster I'm sitting next to him and got his attention
15:55 sqirrel its just that he contacts me after the lecture, i just want to ask him something, its no matter of life and death, we are all ok over here :-)
15:55 jnthn pmichaud: Well, I guess dyncall must do fairly dynamic stuff with the C stack if it's FFI stuff
15:55 jnthn I'm not sure why it'd actually want to execute code on the stack
15:55 sqirrel thx labster
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15:55 pmichaud I'm wondering why the nqp ops would want it, though.
15:55 pmichaud as opposed to dyncall itself.
15:55 arnsholt Isn't libdyncall statically linked in?
15:56 jnthn pmichaud: Well, dyncall is statically linked into the .ops file
15:56 pmichaud aha
15:56 pmichaud that would possibly explain it
15:56 jnthn uh, the dyncall_ops lib
15:56 pmichaud daxim: I'm guessing "justified" then.
15:56 daxim ok
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15:59 FROGGS hi there
16:01 tadzik hi here :)
16:01 pmichaud any last comments on my blog post draft?  if no, I'll post it here in a bit.
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16:02 daxim yes, s/conquerer/conqueror/
16:02 [Coke] url?
16:02 tadzik https://gist.github.com/pmi​chaud/339fed007ee7e1239e1a
16:02 daxim [15:23] <pmichaud> my draft reply is at https://gist.github.com/pmi​chaud/339fed007ee7e1239e1a
16:03 pmichaud japhb's talk is.... terrific.
16:03 [Coke] ah, found it. also tadzik++
16:03 [Coke] also daxim++
16:04 * skids wonders how Int(-1).msb is specced.
16:04 pmichaud it's quite a good overview of where things stand, and also a good overview of what talks to go see later in the conference to learn more on related topics
16:05 pmichaud it's really... nice that he did that in his talk and that his talk came before others
16:05 pmichaud japhb++
16:06 moritz nr: say (-1).msb
16:06 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-59-gae1f8dc: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:07 skids nr: say (0).msb
16:07 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-59-gae1f8dc: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:07 skids So 1s complement.
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16:12 colomon Serialization Error: could not locate static code ref for closure ''
16:12 colomon build stage failed for GD::Raw: Failed building lib/GD/Raw.pm
16:12 colomon :(
16:12 colomon passes all tests if you run directly instead of building.
16:13 jnthn Hmm.
16:14 pmichaud why "Task::Star"?  Maybe "Bundled::Star"?
16:14 [Coke] Task is a thing.
16:15 jnthn Prolly inspired by Task::Kensho and so forth
16:15 tadzik I was imitating CPAN
16:15 tadzik yeah
16:15 [Coke] e.g. http://search.cpan.org/~coke/Tas​k-Parrot-0.01/lib/Task/Parrot.pm
16:15 daxim http://p3rl.org/Task#DESCRIPTION
16:16 smace joined #perl6
16:17 tadzik somebody's building Star it seems, right during the talk. Awesomeness
16:17 pmichaud or maybe "Distribution::Star" ?
16:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: 0255fc8 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/QAST/VM.nqp:
16:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Dump the contents of QAST::VM nodes when dumping the ast.
16:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0255fc83f3
16:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: b0d3b9c | jonathan++ | src/QAST/VM.nqp:
16:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: Merge branch 'master' into rak-jvm-support
16:17 dalek nqp/rak-jvm-support: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b0d3b9ce42
16:18 pmichaud I'm fine with Task::... just from a non-p5-module background it doesn't quite read right to me.
16:18 konundra joined #perl6
16:18 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 46 commits to rakudo/jvm-support by jnthn
16:18 tadzik Bundle is also a thing (on CPAN), I'm fine with renaming it
16:18 PerlJam Task is the better Bundle
16:19 lizmat r: say rx:i/jrandom/ # shouldn't this say "(Regex)"
16:19 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«␤»
16:20 [Coke] r: say rx:i/jrandom/.WHAT
16:20 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«(Regex)␤»
16:20 tadzik r: say rx:i/jrandom/.perl
16:20 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«regex(Mu : Mu *%_) { ... }␤»
16:20 [Coke] is the .gist of a Regex defined?
16:21 [Coke] r: say rx:i/jrandom/.Str
16:21 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«␤»
16:22 timotimo is the execution timing of "where" clauses in different places specced?
16:22 timotimo like, is the optimizer allowed to leave out executions or do them earlier or something?
16:23 jnthn Optimizer is allowed to analyze stuff there.
16:24 timotimo that's nice to know
16:24 timotimo i wonder how complicated it is to do proper inspection of simpler where clauses, like where * < 10 and such (but that seems like something for in two years)
16:27 timotimo and maybe not even helpful most of the time
16:28 ztt_ joined #perl6
16:29 * colomon is brutalizing labster++'s code
16:32 jnthn japhb++ # awesome
16:32 tadzik excellent talk
16:32 colomon japhb++ # well done
16:32 FROGGS japhb++
16:32 tadzik japhb++
16:32 avuserow japhb++ # good talk
16:33 kaare_ joined #perl6
16:34 jnthn r: say sub { }
16:34 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«sub() { ... }␤»
16:34 labster joined #perl6
16:34 jnthn r: say ~ sub { }
16:34 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«␤»
16:35 timotimo is there live streaming perchance?
16:35 colomon timotimo: yes
16:36 timotimo aaw, i wish i'd known beforehand
16:36 timotimo what was it about?
16:37 timotimo "Installing and Using Perl 6 Modules‎" this one?
16:37 avuserow timotimo: http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/talk/4695
16:37 tgt joined #perl6
16:37 avuserow timotimo: yes
16:37 dmol joined #perl6
16:37 timotimo which stream will give me masak and perl6 oo without o_o and will that be in 15 minutes?
16:38 btyler timotimo: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/42​19145/events/2150574/videos/20570839
16:39 colomon timotimo: you might be able to see the back of my head!  (If so, probably creates terrible glare...)
16:39 gdey joined #perl6
16:39 PerlJam IS there a list of the live streams?
16:40 btyler PerlJam: http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/wiki?node=TalkVideos
16:40 btyler cross reference that with the schedule: http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/schedule for best results
16:40 PerlJam btyler: thanks
16:40 btyler it isn't obvious how to find them, I ended up digging them up on twitter
16:41 btyler but I'm glad I did, really enjoying things so far
16:42 timotimo this livestream page has confused me almost endlessly
16:42 timotimo but now i can see the video! that's masak!
16:44 PerlJam btyler: now I can live stream one room while I'm in another :)
16:44 espadrine joined #perl6
16:44 timotimo i'm a bit annoyed that i only get sound in one ear :(
16:46 btyler timotimo: same issue on all the streams, a steam admin mentioned that he/she was looking into it in the main stage chat
16:46 timotimo gaaah why is it buffering every few seconds ;_;
16:46 timotimo my internet connection is super awesome regularly and i can't imagine livestream.com is having trouble serving people
16:47 Chillance joined #perl6
16:47 timotimo the DVR functionality doesn't work at all either
16:48 timotimo the usual trick of pausing and resuming twenty/thirty seconds later doesn't help either
16:49 PerlJam timotimo: probably bandwidth problems locally.  (too many people streaming)
16:52 labster joined #perl6
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16:59 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: 2367dad | jonathan++ | src/vm/parrot/ModuleLoaderVMConfig.nqp:
16:59 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: Fix a merge-o.
16:59 dalek rakudo/jvm-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2367dadca7
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17:02 timotimo i'll try to watch japhb's talk instead
17:03 spider-mario joined #perl6
17:03 timotimo "there was an error", yay
17:04 timotimo and of course there's no download button
17:05 tadzik where do we go eating?
17:05 crab2313 joined #perl6
17:06 timotimo all i could make out from the talk was that masak wasn't eaten yet. that's good
17:06 colomon niecza> IO::Path.new("Thisismy/filename")
17:06 colomon Path<Thisismy/filename>
17:06 FROGGS cool
17:06 labster sweet
17:09 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 173 commits to rakudo/nom by jnthn
17:09 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 148 commits to nqp by jnthn
17:10 flussence omgomgomgjvm?
17:10 jnthn JVM work will now proceed in the master branch of NQP and the nom branch of Rakudo
17:10 flussence yaaaaaaay
17:10 jnthn This doesn't mean things are magically complete, just that there's no need for a branch.
17:10 colomon \o/
17:10 jnthn lunch &
17:11 flussence jnthn++ xx 173+148
17:15 [Coke] jnthn++
17:19 timotimo grr. livestream is keeping me from my streams :(
17:29 diakopter timotimo ?
17:29 diakopter timotimo: ?
17:30 ajr joined #perl6
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17:33 timotimo diakopter: i get thrown off the stream for 5-15 seconds at a time and when i try to use the "dvr rewind" functionality it just jumps back to live. when i try to watch a previously streamed recording, it gives me a very unhelpful "there was an error" message
17:33 konundra joined #perl6
17:35 diakopter timotimo: people with linux are reporting problems like that; people on mac and windows aren't
17:36 diakopter afaik
17:36 timotimo oh, good. i'll boot my windows then
17:40 timotimo i wonder why it would break, considering it's flash
17:42 tomyan joined #perl6
17:42 geekosaur because flash on linux is even suckier than flash in general?
17:43 timotimo it's almost exactly as sucky
17:43 timotimo doesn't work on windows either fwiw
18:01 kst joined #perl6
18:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: c4aaed8 | coke++ | / (4 files):
18:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/c4aaed8150
18:06 zby_home joined #perl6
18:06 [Coke] it is desired that rakudo's ConfigureJVM.pl support --gen-nqp, aye?
18:07 crab2313 joined #perl6
18:08 btyler joined #perl6
18:09 raiph joined #perl6
18:09 tomyan joined #perl6
18:09 * [Coke] opens a ticket for it
18:10 raiph http://www.reddit.com/r/readablecode/comm​ents/1fle60/is_this_regex_code_readable/ # re masak's latest balanced bracket parser
18:14 eternaleye raiph: ...Maybe it didn't get attention because you invite people to post if they *don't* agree, and everyone agreed! :P
18:15 eternaleye (Yes, I know, everybody on reddit agreeing is not a likely explanation for anything)
18:16 eternaleye Anyway, I'd personally have titled it "What do you think about this regex syntax", which makes it look less like a "how did I do" question and more of a "what are your aesthetic opinions about a design"
18:20 [Coke] just got a build failure in nqp master running on java with "make -j3"
18:21 [Coke] finishing with "make" seems to have avoided the issue
18:22 [Coke] Can someone install java 1.7 on feather?
18:23 [Coke] (in anticipation of rakudo-jvm roasting)
18:23 * [Coke] thinks rakudo-java is slightly better choice there and will use that going forward.
18:27 irdan joined #perl6
18:31 timotimo now that i finally was able to see it: thanks masak, liked the talk :)
18:33 * [Coke] cannot build rakudo-java at the moment:
18:33 [Coke] make
18:33 [Coke] nqp/install/nqp --target=classfile --output=blib/Perl6/Grammar.class --encoding=utf8 \ src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp
18:33 [Coke] ^[[6~java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
18:33 timotimo hehe
18:33 [Coke] <sadface>
18:33 timotimo oh java, you silly thin
18:33 timotimo silly thing*
18:34 [Coke] This is nqp version 2013.05-151-gb0d3b9c built on JVM
18:40 timotimo sadly not able to watch the perl6 modules talk by japhb :(
18:44 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
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18:51 sqirrel joined #perl6
18:52 colomon o/
18:52 dalek v5: 9353bdf | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
18:52 dalek v5: allow infix != without space before and after
18:52 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/9353bdf50b
18:52 Guest1337 joined #perl6
18:54 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
18:55 lizmat joined #perl6
18:55 FROGGS sqirrel_: \o/
18:55 FROGGS sqirrel_: I made photos of the squirrels here at the campus :o)
18:56 sqirrel_ \o
18:56 FROGGS basically I made three photos of one eating squirrel
18:57 sqirrel_ Froggs:  cookieman will be over the moon about it
18:58 cognominal joined #perl6
19:03 jnthn [Coke]: Yes, --gen-nqp is desirable for ConfigureJVM.pl
19:04 gdey joined #perl6
19:05 eiro FROGGS: i read your lines and tried to ldd moarvm and tried
19:05 eiro perl -E 'print "$_ " for `ldd ./moarvm` =~ /(\S+) =>/g'
19:05 eiro linux-gate.so.1 libpthread.so.0 libm.so.6 libc.so.6
19:05 labster joined #perl6
19:05 eiro # no apr at all so it *is* statically compiler
19:05 eiro s/r$/d
19:06 FROGGS which does not work on my box for some reason
19:06 FROGGS so, what is your os and arch?
19:06 eiro linux uname -a
19:06 eiro Linux toad 3.5.0-27-generic #46-Ubuntu SMP Mon Mar 25 20:00:05 UTC 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
19:07 FROGGS ahh, what I thought, you are on a 32bit platform
19:07 eiro FROGGS: are you sure apr dev files are not installed in your system ?
19:07 FROGGS apr dev files are installed
19:08 eiro yep but what's the point there ?
19:08 jnthn There's an apr bundled in the Moar repo at the moment also
19:08 FROGGS it can't resolv a single symbol (about uuid_generate or so), when I use the static libapr-1 lib
19:08 eiro jnthn: the one i used. my patch was about making it work
19:08 census joined #perl6
19:09 jnthn eiro: Yes, that's how I understand your patch.
19:09 FROGGS the patch you did is a partial revert of mine
19:10 eiro FROGGS: i'm really sorry about it but i just don't know how to do better
19:10 FROGGS I'm not really happy with it, we should either revert mine in total or find the correct way to support 32 and 64bit archs
19:10 FROGGS eiro: me neither
19:10 FROGGS but maybe I'll know some day next week, when I can access a 32bit machine
19:11 FROGGS so I'd say we dont touch it unless we know better
19:11 eiro ok
19:13 pmichaud 18:06 <[Coke]> it is desired that rakudo's ConfigureJVM.pl support --gen-nqp, aye?
19:13 pmichaud actually, I'm thinking that rakudo's configure should have --gen-nqp=jvm or --with-nqp=... and it decides JVM/Parrot/other based on that.
19:14 pmichaud (we're not there yet, but that's where I'll be aiming to go)
19:14 jnthn pmichaud: That'd be nice
19:14 pmichaud but in essence, Rakudo figures out how to configure itself based on the nqp (options) that you supply
19:14 woolfy joined #perl6
19:21 PerlJam masak++ live demo!  :-)
19:22 timotimo I'm missing more stuff on stream :(
19:29 * colomon was wondering why masak was messing around with indices.  ;)
19:30 census yay!  masak++
19:30 btyler masak's stream audio just cut out entirely. can someone present maybe poke an admin-type?
19:31 btyler and back
19:31 census btyler: are you watching masak from your computer live?
19:31 btyler yes
19:31 census may i ask how?
19:31 btyler http://new.livestream.com/acc​ounts/4219145/events/2150574
19:31 timotimo it works on android
19:32 btyler census: combine http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/schedule with http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/wiki?node=TalkVideos to see everything happening :)
19:32 timotimo fsvo works
19:32 census is this masak discussing the dot product?
19:32 colomon yes
19:32 jnthn yes
19:33 dalek niecza: b4da574 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
19:33 dalek niecza: Apparently this file is gone.
19:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b4da57469e
19:36 anocelot btyler: Is the audio back in now?  (I'm sorta working on it kinda.)
19:36 dalek niecza: 94cad70 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
19:36 dalek niecza: As is this one.
19:36 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/94cad7082a
19:38 btyler anocelot: yep, it popped back about 70 seconds after I first mentioned it. still only on the left channel, but that's no biggie
19:39 anocelot btyler: OK.  I think we may only have a mono feed from the board, so I'm unsure how that was going out in stereo before.  XD
19:40 rjbs What was that chaacter after Carl's "say"?
19:40 btyler anocelot: oh, the left-channel-only thing has been very consistent :) thanks for your work, I'm loving being able to stream these talks
19:40 rjbs Looked like "say ~.value.reverse.first"
19:40 jnthn ~ would be stringify
19:40 PerlJam rjbs: aye
19:41 anocelot btyler: Your're welcome.  Thank diakopter thought, he's been running non-stop on this stuff; I've only been working on it for the day.
19:41 colomon you can use ~ with implicit $_ like that?
19:41 rjbs jnthn: That's what I thought, but then what was the value for?
19:41 stevan_ joined #perl6
19:42 rjbs I wonder I misread the slide.  I'd have expected:  say ~ .reverse.first.value
19:42 anocelot rjbs: Can you rewind the stream?
19:42 rjbs anocelot: I'll just ask masak after it's over :)
19:43 anocelot rjbs: That's probably an effective alternative.
19:45 census masak++ !!
19:46 PerlJam japhb++ I didn't know the pod comment showed up in the usage like that
19:47 PerlJam masak++ indeed.  He's an excellent presenter IMHO
19:47 colomon masak++
19:48 jnthn masak++
19:48 tomyan joined #perl6
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19:52 dalek roast: a0cc4c2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S16-filehandles/io.t:
19:52 dalek roast: Unfudge io test that succeeds now
19:52 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a0cc4c23c9
19:53 census yes masak is great teacher
19:53 dalek roast: d3f8d74 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-io/io-path.t:
19:53 dalek roast: Change rakudo todos to niecza todos.
19:53 dalek roast:
19:53 dalek roast: Because Rakudo can run them now, and Niecza is getting IO::Path but cannot run them yet.
19:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d3f8d7400a
19:54 colomon On S32-io/io-path.t: does anyone understand #?rakudo 3 skip 'need to test OS submodules instead'
19:54 masak thanks all y'all. it was nice to be up there. :)
19:54 colomon It seems like either the tests are wrong or Rakudo should have a different skip message.
19:54 colomon labster?
19:56 FROGGS joined #perl6
19:57 masak rjbs: no, the .value there means "get the list of days-in-month, throw away the month"
19:57 timotimo anyone know how to play this http://api.new.livestream.c​om/broadcasts/20570878.smil on linux? no luck with totem, mplayer or vlc :(
19:57 masak colomon: the ~ isn't topicalizing on $_, the .value is.
19:58 stevan_ joined #perl6
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20:00 timotimo ah, apparently just concat the http_base with the src thing
20:00 colomon masak: yes, I understood it must work that way.  I'm just mildly shocked it does
20:01 masak hehe :)
20:01 masak it's consistent ;)
20:01 labster yeah, io-path.t tests are somewhat wrong.
20:02 labster sorry, I was trying to get a job :)
20:03 raiph joined #perl6
20:03 colomon labster: no worries!
20:05 rjbs masak: Okay, so it was ~( .value...), rather than (~.value)...
20:05 rjbs masak: Thanks
20:06 donaldh joined #perl6
20:07 masak r:say ~.value.reverse.first: *.day-of-week == 5 for classify *.month, Date.new("2013-01-01") .. Date.new("2013-12-31")
20:08 masak rjbs: yes, method calls always bind tighter than prefix ops. it's somtimes surprising, but essentially it follows people's intuitions *most* of the time.
20:08 rjbs masak: I think all my brain wanted was a space between ~ and . for that to have been unsurprising.  Hard to say, of course. :)
20:08 masak rjbs: specifically, if you read the index in -a.i as a method call, you'd expect it to happen tighter than the -
20:09 rjbs nod
20:09 masak rjbs: I dunno, I tend to squeeze prefixes up against their terms, just like you have to with postfixes.
20:10 masak maybe I'm just concerned they'll come off looking like infixes otherwise.
20:10 colomon +1
20:11 colomon r: say ~ .value.reverse.first: *.day-of-week == 5 for classify *.month, Date.new("2013-01-01") .. Date.new("2013-12-31")
20:11 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«2013-01-25␤2013-02-22␤2013-03-29␤2013-04​-26␤2013-05-31␤2013-06-28␤2013-07-26␤2013-08-30​␤2013-09-27␤2013-10-25␤2013-11-29␤2013-12-27␤»
20:11 colomon guess it does work, though
20:12 masak oh, not saying it doesn't. it should always work.
20:12 masak with prefixes, you have the choice to append whitespace.
20:12 colomon but you shouldn't.  ;)
20:12 masak it's not part of my recommended style, no :)
20:13 [Coke] there are -talks- on moarvm?
20:13 colomon [Coke]: right now
20:13 masak [Coke]: yep, ongoing. :)
20:13 masak [Coke]: wish you were here... :/
20:13 masak with postfixes, you don't. you have to squeeze it up against the term, or use unspace (which people who hate not being able to use whitespace also tend to hate).
20:13 nwc10 [Coke]: the talk description didn't say MoarVM before Saturday.
20:13 colomon ... we're just two lost souls, in a fishbowl ...
20:14 [Coke] arglebargle.
20:14 [Coke] that's just dirty pool. :(
20:15 [Coke] In retrospect, a little more warning on that might have been a good thing.
20:16 masak you don't seem to fully understand the concept of "sekkrit project"...
20:16 masak and as far as I understand, people hinted very strongly that you should come. :)
20:16 [Coke] I do, actually.
20:17 prammer joined #perl6
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20:20 anocelot At least the current talk should be available on the stream.
20:20 anocelot (MoarVM)
20:20 * timotimo watches moarvm on a windows computer now
20:21 anocelot \o/
20:21 tadzik I think all talks are recorded and will be available later
20:21 sorear o/
20:22 timotimo the audio is quite bad, i wish speakers would repeat what audience members say
20:22 timotimo (but i know i miss that every once in a while)
20:22 timotimo (but during my lightning talk there was someone who held up a blinking laptop screen with the words "repeat questions" up whenever i missed them)
20:23 timotimo could someone from the audience stenotype that? :(
20:23 anocelot How's that?
20:23 timotimo OH YEAH
20:23 timotimo excellent, thank you
20:23 anocelot ;)
20:23 timotimo wow, the volume difference between jnthn holds the mic up to his mouth and when he doesn't is humongous
20:24 anocelot The qustion was, "How commited are you to not having incremental garbage collection?" (more or less)
20:24 timotimo thanks
20:24 masak no, that was exactly the question :)
20:24 anocelot (real time incrementatal gcc is the off-mic note)
20:25 tadzik one that guarantees allocation/collection time to be lower than X
20:25 masak anocelot: have we met in meatspace? if not, I'd like to shake your hand.
20:25 anocelot masak: I'm sitting next to TimToady in meatspace.
20:26 masak I see you waving ;)
20:26 anocelot o.o/
20:26 colomon anocelot: was that you waving?  I've got obstructed view here.
20:26 colomon \o
20:26 anocelot yes.  ^.^
20:27 jasper43 joined #perl6
20:28 timotimo not sure if it was said/written-on-slides/asked, does moarvm already have some kind of jit?
20:28 masak timotimo: no.
20:28 masak timotimo: (not to my knowledge)
20:28 anocelot (various "done by christmas" references.)
20:28 jasper43 hey guys ... is there a release day for Perl 6 yet?
20:28 timotimo not saying i'm going to do it, but a moarvm clone atop pypy's translation/jit/gc framework should be called MoarMoar
20:29 masak timotimo: but there's thought about adding a JIT.
20:29 masak jasper43: hi!
20:29 jasper43 hi
20:29 anocelot Moar^2
20:29 pmichaud jasper43: our latest release was 2013-05-31
20:29 timotimo maybe EvenMoarVM
20:29 jasper43 oh wow that was recent
20:29 pmichaud http://rakudo.org/2013/05/31/​rakudo-star-2013-05-released/
20:29 jasper43 will I have any issues installing perl6 alongside perl in Ubuntu?  everything is kept separate I assume?  modules and all?
20:29 masak jasper43: and it was compiler release #63.
20:30 masak jasper43: yes, everything's separate.
20:30 jasper43 nice
20:30 masak jasper43: you invoke Perl 6 with 'perl6' for now.
20:30 jasper43 perfect!
20:30 masak \:D/
20:30 jasper43 you guys rock .. keep fighting the good fight
20:30 masak jasper43: I cannot guarantee that the Ubuntu Rakudo Star is very recent.
20:31 timotimo it probably is woefully out of date
20:31 masak jasper43: you might be better off grabbing the latest Star from the post pmichaud++ linked.
20:31 pmichaud http://pmthium.com/2013/06/a-perl-6-deve​lopers-reply-to-a-russian-perl-podcast/
20:31 jasper43 ok
20:31 jasper43 I'll do that
20:31 masak pmichaud++
20:31 timotimo "pmthium", that's a cute name :)
20:31 pmichaud it's my element.  :)
20:31 tadzik hehehe
20:32 timotimo it's all about the pmthiums, baby o/~
20:32 PerlJam I think ubuntu has rakduo 2012-07
20:32 masak "gee, pmichaud is really in his element when he's blogging..." :)
20:32 anocelot XD
20:32 PerlJam er, sorry 2011-07
20:32 masak PerlJam: that's ancient.
20:32 PerlJam yep
20:32 masak that's, like, more than two Christmases ago.
20:32 tadzik it's like running 5.8. Oh, wait
20:32 masak haha
20:33 PerlJam Version: 0.1~2011.07-1build1
20:33 anocelot (Various bickering off-camera.  Not too pertinant to the discussion.)
20:34 timotimo thank you. i was wondering, because it's quite hard to make out what's going on
20:34 nwc10 http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/rakudo -- Package: rakudo (2012.10-1build1)
20:34 tadzik "will XS work in moar"
20:34 PerlJam nwc10: ah, maybe I've got an old ubuntu repository
20:34 snearch joined #perl6
20:34 timotimo if you embed libperl, it should work, no?
20:34 tadzik that was the answer ;)
20:35 timotimo right
20:35 tadzik (I dind't understand that last one, and I sit 5 meters from Riba)
20:36 arnsholt The last question was what happens if, on the Perl 5 side, a Perl 6 object is passed to a C function (XSUB)
20:36 timotimo ah
20:36 TimToady "proxies work" was the answer
20:36 timotimo twice as fast!
20:37 timotimo what is lots and lots of dictionaries? libicu?
20:37 tadzik (what's twice as fast?)
20:38 nwc10 whereas for debian: http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/rakudo -- Package: rakudo (0.1~2012.01-1)
20:39 colomon jnthn taking the stage (not sure if the camera will be capturing that?)
20:39 timotimo i like seeing jnthn present, he seems so happy
20:39 timotimo the camera does capture it, the left end is the left end of the projection surface, the right end is a bit right of the speaker's desk
20:40 timotimo that's every opcode from moarvm we're seeing?
20:40 gfldex could you drop me a link to the stream?
20:40 sorear timotimo: lots of dictionaries = NieczaUCD.cs
20:40 tadzik http://www.yapcna.org/yn2013/wiki?node=TalkVideos
20:40 gfldex tyvm
20:40 sorear timotimo: yes
20:41 colomon timotimo: it doesn't fit all on one screen, but yes.
20:41 timotimo livestream.com, search "yapc stream 3"
20:42 timotimo sound trouble suddenly
20:42 zby_home_ joined #perl6
20:42 timotimo mostly a low hummmmmmm, but slightly hearable presenters
20:42 anocelot Always?
20:43 timotimo no, just started a minute ago, it's slowly improved again
20:44 anocelot I fiddled with a cable, so let me know if it totally drops or whatever.  XD
20:44 FROGGS >.<
20:44 FROGGS *g*
20:45 timotimo there's trouble again; whenever the speaker's audio level reaches a certain threshold, a whole bunch of hum/bzzt/whatever mixes in
20:45 timotimo and jnthn triggers it every few words :(
20:45 timotimo interestingly the hum is in the second audio channel, too
20:45 colomon I think it's clipping in the PA system
20:45 anocelot Ah.  That sounds like a peaking issue, prolly.
20:46 timotimo can be, yes
20:46 anocelot Maybe he should clip the mic to his shirt.
20:46 timotimo that might rub on his beard the whole time i fear
20:46 masak :D
20:46 tadzik :D:D:
20:46 anocelot Hmm.  That's a fair point.
20:46 PerlJam clip it to the lanyard
20:47 FROGGS who is lanyard? :P
20:47 masak not sure that would work well...
20:47 masak FROGGS: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lanyard
20:47 FROGGS *cough* joke *cough*
20:47 masak (irony-free answer, sorry) :)
20:47 timotimo masak: from experience, lanyard-clipped mics will rub against shirts when the speaker moves around or moves their arms too wildly
20:48 masak right.
20:48 timotimo FROGGS: 'you have a sarcasm sign?!'
20:48 anocelot Have to clip it to BOTH sides at once.
20:48 FROGGS ohh, forgot it at home, sorry
20:48 masak "sarcasm? that's original!"
20:48 timotimo completely unreadable color between the yellow
20:48 masak timotimo: here, too ;)
20:48 timotimo is that a dump of a serialised object or something?
20:49 masak timotimo: it's the Unicode stuff, I think.
20:49 colomon timotimo: I can read it, but it appears to be completely uninformative
20:49 timotimo ah
20:49 colomon It's the (numeric) comments you cannot read
20:49 masak diakopter slurped all the Unicode data and turned it into C source.
20:49 colomon like /*24*/ etc
20:49 masak you're watching the output of his (Perl 5) script.
20:49 timotimo uh huh
20:51 timotimo To compile on the MoarVM backend, QAST::VM must have an alternative 'moar' or 'moarop' - this is the kind of error i get from using unimplemented features when trying to nqp-cc-moar some code?
20:52 timotimo (could be the pir:: ops that were still in there m) )
20:56 timotimo so apparently the tracebacks give no line numbers from the crosscompiler :(
20:56 Guest133_ joined #perl6
20:57 timotimo he's talking about what i did! \o/
20:57 tadzik yep :)
20:57 tadzik timotimo++
20:57 * timotimo so proud <3
20:58 timotimo a future of a perl! :D
20:59 PerlJam timotimo: It's a Perl of a future!  ;)
20:59 * timotimo put off his headphones
20:59 sorear :D
21:01 * FROGGS puts off his earmuffs, it is hot outside >.<
21:04 konundra joined #perl6
21:10 estrabd joined #perl6
21:11 colomon joined #perl6
21:12 timotimo now i feel that i have to one-up myself :P
21:13 lizmat joined #perl6
21:16 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:18 lizmat joined #perl6
21:19 stevan_ joined #perl6
21:23 gdey joined #perl6
21:25 stevan_ joined #perl6
21:26 timotimo what stream do i have to open to get larry wall?
21:26 timotimo ah, number one
21:26 anocelot Is the stream working?
21:27 gfldex yes
21:27 gfldex they are on a break
21:31 dalek niecza: 95dde43 | (Solomon Foster)++ | / (3 files):
21:31 dalek niecza: Borrow chopped up versions of labster++'s IO::FileTestable and IO::Path.
21:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/95dde43c73
21:32 Guest1337 joined #perl6
21:37 timotimo "holier than thou" m)
21:39 timotimo kind of scary :|
21:49 [Coke] joined #perl6
21:49 FROGGS ya
21:58 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
22:04 colomon joined #perl6
22:05 tomyan joined #perl6
22:06 lizmat joined #perl6
22:10 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
22:10 colomon labster, etc: should the spec specify that the $test arg for dir tests the path strings rather than the IO::Path objects?
22:18 AndChat|356841 joined #perl6
22:21 Guest1337 joined #perl6
22:21 xilo joined #perl6
22:22 colomon dir.grep('t') is (essentially) in S32-io/dir.t.  Given that dir returns IO::Paths, should that still work?
22:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: b2e36f4 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
22:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
22:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/b2e36f48df
22:24 lizmat joined #perl6
22:24 flussence colomon++ # Text-Tabs-Wrap in niecza is now passing the same tests as rakudo
22:26 colomon flussence: what was the difference?
22:26 flussence half the tests used IO::Path to load files :)
22:27 colomon :)
22:27 colomon labster++
22:28 colomon It's not a very good IO::Path yet (I chopped a bunch of labster's stuff) but it seems to get some stuff done.
22:29 btyler joined #perl6
22:31 [Coke] colomon: how long until you start on nqp-mono? )
22:31 [Coke] ;)
22:31 colomon [Coke]: that's way beyond my pay grade.
22:34 btyler_ joined #perl6
22:35 colomon [Coke]: I'd love to see it done, but I think it probably makes sense to get JVM and MoarVM locked down first.
22:36 guardian joined #perl6
22:37 donaldh ETOOMANYVMS
22:38 guardian left #perl6
22:41 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
22:43 guardian joined #perl6
22:53 timotimo so that's leto!
22:59 btyler joined #perl6
23:03 skids joined #perl6
23:08 timotimo WHY IS HE SCREAMING
23:08 timotimo WHY ARE YOU SCREAMING
23:08 arcterus joined #perl6
23:11 AndChat|356841 mst is just awesome
23:12 timotimo that was mst?
23:12 FROGGS_ it was
23:12 FROGGS_ that is sawerx
23:13 preflex joined #perl6
23:14 timotimo it'll be confusing to hear the same thing again 7 hours later
23:15 timotimo wow, he has some beef :)
23:19 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
23:19 timotimo oh, now a "is perl6 perl" talk
23:19 timotimo oh, changes
23:21 * lue thought Perl 6 was Perl by definition...
23:22 Teratogen Perl is a family of languages
23:23 timotimo yeah, but apparently some people need to be reminded of that?
23:25 timotimo can one of you briefly explain to me what TIE does, preferably in perl6 terms?
23:25 timotimo i think it's used to make regular datastructures in perl5 behave differently?
23:27 flussence it's more or less like doing «augment %whatever { method postcircumfix:<{ }> {...}; ... }»
23:27 timotimo only for { }?
23:28 flussence well, works for nearly any lvalue-ish stuff
23:28 timotimo would the same thing be doable with %whatever but role { method postcircumfix:<{ }> (...) { ... }; ... }?
23:29 flussence oh wait, better explanation: it's more like «is repr»
23:29 timotimo ah
23:29 flussence (but yeah, roles are close enough)
23:30 ggoebel joined #perl6
23:31 timotimo what makes up a repr? implementations of at_key/at_pos/...?
23:31 dalek roast: 05d756b | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-io/ (2 files):
23:31 dalek roast: Updates and fudges.
23:31 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/05d756bfa8
23:32 dalek niecza: 1bed6b7 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
23:32 dalek niecza: Make dir return IO::Path objects.
23:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1bed6b7a8a
23:32 dalek niecza: 6e28e36 | (Solomon Foster)++ | / (2 files):
23:32 dalek niecza: Make dir return IO::Path objects.
23:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6e28e36485
23:32 colomon joined #perl6
23:33 colomon o/
23:34 sorear o/
23:38 sorear need alternate BOF planning solutions
23:38 sorear it's loud enough down in the meeting halls that I was starting to ... fray
23:38 preflex joined #perl6
23:38 colomon sorear: understood, it's still pretty bad up here.
23:39 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
23:42 eternaleye timotimo: That reminds me, I need to toss the manga downloader I made up on github soon (I implemented it as a hierarchy of tied hashes, site -> manga name -> chapter -> page image URL)
23:42 flussence rn: sub a is pure {rand}; sub b {rand}; say [==] a xx 10; say [==] b xx 10;
23:42 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    xx used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:42 camelia ..niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤     'xx' used at line 1,1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 36) â�¤  at /hom…
23:42 flussence rn: sub a is pure {rand}; sub b {rand}; say [==] a() xx 10; say [==] b() xx 10;
23:42 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
23:43 AndChat|356841 joined #perl6
23:43 sorear FROGGS[mobile]: fans of quiet BOF? :)
23:43 eternaleye flussence: ...now that is cool.
23:43 timotimo huh, when did that happen
23:44 AndChat|356841 joined #perl6
23:44 timotimo rn: sub a is pure { (state $)++ }; say (a() for ^10);
23:44 FROGGS_ damn wifi
23:44 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0␤»
23:44 flussence timotimo: it's not in the specs (yet) from what I can tell, but «is pure» means "fold this like a constant"
23:44 timotimo rn: sub a { (state $)++ }; say (a() for ^10);
23:44 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
23:45 FROGGS_ sorear: have to finish my slides
23:45 flussence p5eval: poke
23:45 colomon quiet dinner BOF?
23:45 p5eval flussence: poke
23:45 FROGGS_ cant concentrate when there are so many ppl around
23:46 flussence p5eval: use v5.12; use Memoize; sub a { (state $foo)++ }; memoize(&a); say a() for 1..10; ''
23:46 p5eval flussence: ERROR: Can't locate Memoize.pm in @INC (you may need to install the Memoize module) (@INC contains: /lib) at (eval 7) line 1.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at (eval 7) line 1.
23:46 flussence aww
23:46 sorear flussence: it's not in the synopses, but it's tangentially mentioned in STD
23:47 sorear flussence: btw, are you here?
23:47 colomon flussence: you know there's a p6 "use cached" implementation somewhere in the Advent calendars....
23:47 LordV joined #perl6
23:47 flussence sorear: nah, I'm just being more active than usual :)
23:47 colomon rn: my $p = "test".path; say (* eq "t")($p)
23:47 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«False␤»
23:47 camelia ..niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot unbox a String from an object of repr P6opaque␤  at /tmp/qyzXcUHzqe line 0 (ANON @ 1) ␤  at /tmp/qyzXcUHzqe line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4500 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE…
23:49 timotimo rn: multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($foo where * >= 5) { (state $)++ }; say ($_.&a for ^10);
23:49 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 0 1 2 3 4␤»
23:49 camelia ..niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/6X6agfEkEJ line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub a([33mâ��[31m$foo where * < 5) { (state $)++ }; multi[0mâ�¤â�¤0 1 2 3 4 0 1 2 3 4â�¤Â»
23:49 FROGGS joined #perl6
23:49 timotimo rn: proto a ($foo) is pure; multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($foo where * >= 5) { (state $)++ }; say ($_.&a for ^10);
23:49 camelia niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed block at /tmp/QWGdg82naw line 1:�------> [32mproto a ($foo) is pure[33m�[31m; multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { (state[0m��Parse failed��»
23:49 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/192FRchS1m:1â�¤------> [32mproto a ($foo) is pure[33mâ��[31m; multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { (state[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤        ne…
23:49 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
23:49 timotimo rn: proto a is pure ($foo); multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($foo where * >= 5) { (state $)++ }; say ($_.&a for ^10);
23:49 camelia niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed block at /tmp/dy6zKHpBuW line 1:�------> [32mproto a is pure ($foo)[33m�[31m; multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { (state[0m��Parse failed��»
23:49 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/ZKuEzqbhqp:1â�¤------> [32mproto a is pure [33mâ��[31m($foo); multi sub a($foo where * < 5) { [0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤        new name…
23:50 timotimo rn: multi sub($foo where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($foo where * >= 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; say ($_.&a for ^10);
23:50 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'a'; none of these signatures match:␤:($foo)␤  in sub a at /tmp/xdW4R_QTXH:1␤  in block  at /tmp/xdW4R_QTXH:1␤␤»
23:50 camelia ..niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/MnJX0iJR61 line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub([33mâ��[31m$foo where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ [0mâ�¤  &sub is declared but not used at /tmp/MnJX0iJR61 line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub[33mâ��[31m($…
23:50 timotimo rn: multi sub($foo where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($foo where * >= 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; say (a($_) for ^10);
23:50 camelia niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/IJwYrMQTAW line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub([33mâ��[31m$foo where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ [0mâ�¤  &sub is declared but not used at /tmp/IJwYrMQTAW line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub[33mâ��[31m($…
23:50 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'a'; none of these signatures match:␤:($foo)␤  in sub a at /tmp/tdAztTnGPr:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tdAztTnGPr:1␤␤»
23:50 timotimo i don't know what i'm doing
23:53 FROGGS rn: multi sub($foo where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($foo where * >= 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; say (a($_) for 5..10);
23:53 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5␤»
23:53 camelia ..niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $foo is declared but not used at /tmp/RtNBWQZVbk line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub([33mâ��[31m$foo where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ [0mâ�¤  &sub is declared but not used at /tmp/RtNBWQZVbk line 1:â�¤------> [32mmulti sub[33mâ��[31m($…
23:54 flussence rn: proto a($) {*}; sub a($ where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; sub a($ where * >= 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; say a($_) for ^10;
23:54 camelia niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Illegal redeclaration of routine 'a' (see line 1) at /tmp/KRRNNfMyiK line 1:�------> [32mproto a($) {*}; sub a[33m�[31m($ where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ };[0m��Illegal redeclaration of routine 'a' (see line 1) at /tm…
23:54 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Redeclaration of routine aâ�¤at /tmp/os7DiHBXA6:1â�¤------> [32ma($ where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ }[33mâ��[31m; sub a($ where * >= 5) is pure { (state[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statement…
23:54 eternaleye timotimo: 'is pure' means that it has no effects on state - it uses the inputs to create the output, nothing more. No mutation of inputs, etc.
23:54 timotimo eternaleye: i know that part :)
23:54 timotimo i was trying to find out if it handles multis properly
23:54 eternaleye timotimo: Ah
23:55 timotimo i also remember now that "is pure" went into the code (because i saw the constant folding code in the optimizer), but i didn't realise until now that it can be used in user code (although i did notice it in the setting)
23:56 flussence rn: proto a($) is pure {*}; multi sub a($ where * < 5) { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($ where * >= 5) { (state $)++ }; say a($_) for ^10
23:56 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤»
23:56 timotimo oooh, the {*} was missing!
23:57 timotimo rn: proto a($) is pure {*}; multi sub a($ where * < 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; multi sub a($ where * >= 5) is pure { (state $)++ }; say a($_) for ^10
23:57 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-62-g95dde43: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤»
23:57 timotimo that's kind of sad, but expectable.
23:57 flussence (am I misreading the spec? S06:77 says those "multi" words shouldn't be needed there.)
23:57 colomon r: ~dir()[0]
23:57 camelia rakudo b2072f:  ( no output )
23:57 colomon r: say ~dir()[0]
23:57 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«star␤»
23:58 timotimo i think if there's a proto, you don't need to write "multi" any more
23:58 colomon r: say dir()[0].perl
23:58 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«IO::Path.new(basename => "star", directory => ".", volume => "")␤»
23:58 eternaleye r: proto a( $b ) is pure { ... }; multi a( $b where * < 5 ) { (state $c)++ }; multi a( $b where * >= 5 ) { (state $c)++ }; a( $_ ).say for 5..10;
23:58 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10161␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11047␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:890␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:889␤  in block  at /tmp/2QJ…
23:59 eternaleye r: proto a( $b ) is pure { ... }; multi a( $b where * < 5 ) is pure { (state $c)++ }; multi a( $b where * >= 5 ) is pure { (state $c)++ }; a( $_ ).say for 5..10;
23:59 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10161␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11047␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:890␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:889␤  in block  at /tmp/DXt…
23:59 eternaleye r: proto a( $b ) is pure { ... }; multi a( $b where * < 5 ) is pure { (state $c)++ }; multi a( $b where * >= 5 ) is pure { $b }; a( $_ ).say for 5..10;
23:59 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10161␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11047␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:890␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:889␤  in block  at /tmp/_Gk…
23:59 eternaleye iiinteresting.
23:59 eternaleye r: proto a( $b ) { ... }; multi a( $b where * < 5 ) is pure { (state $c)++ }; multi a( $b where * >= 5 ) is pure { $b }; a( $_ ).say for 5..10;
23:59 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10161␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11047␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:890␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:889␤  in block  at /tmp/u5B…

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