Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-06-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:28 masak 'night, #perl6
00:30 tgt joined #perl6
00:32 sorear oh hey, "return" isn't implemented.
00:39 benabik joined #perl6
00:50 sorear now it is! :D
00:52 mst :D
00:53 benabik joined #perl6
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00:55 sorear o/ mst
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01:32 * colomon sees no sign of a recent push....   ;)
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02:03 labster c'mon dalek, show us some commits!
02:06 sorear colomon: i has no commit bit
02:07 colomon sorear: right.  :(
02:07 labster All you have to do is send a letter 50 miles north, sorear.
02:08 labster I can merge pull requests, to rakudo anyway.
02:08 colomon as can I.
02:14 labster r: say "あ".succ   # expected output: い
02:14 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«あ␤»
02:16 labster r: say "π".succ
02:16 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«ρ␤»
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02:20 * colomon has somehow wandered from getting ready to add more Set operator tests to reading about bicameralism.
02:21 * labster read that as 'bicamelism'
02:23 labster how do you feel about mkdir returning a path object rather than True?
02:23 colomon one camel is enough, thank you
02:24 colomon would it just return the path you just asked it to make?
02:24 labster yeah
02:24 colomon there's a certainl logic to that
02:24 colomon "t/spec".path.mkdir.chdir
02:25 colomon return Failure if it doesn't work?
02:25 labster exactly
02:25 colomon +1
02:26 labster currently a thrown failure until we get the "use fatal"  in try blocks thing.  I'm not in a mood to break panda.
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02:30 colomon it's still somewhat broken anyway, I think...
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02:37 labster yeah, but that's more of a language design brokenness, I think
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02:39 labster Personally, I like the idea of soft failure, because it's somewhere between checking for return codes, and stopping the program in the middle.
02:39 colomon labster: no, I mean panda is somewhat broken
02:39 colomon at least, I'm routinely getting weird results from it
02:40 labster It does that... yeah.
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03:05 colomon Don't suppose TimToady is out there somewhere?
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03:12 labster I believe he's in Europe now, so not at this time of day
03:15 colomon ah
03:15 colomon I am soldiering on, making weird but apparently working changes to Set
03:20 colomon well, the first one worked, anyway
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03:53 * colomon has [∪] and [∩] working in Niecza, but is going to bed without checking them in.  :)
03:53 colomon o/
03:53 sorear o/ colomon
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05:01 * sorear is starting on a long-term project to replace p6eval with something more robust
05:02 ssutch :)
05:11 lue more robust how?
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05:29 moritz sorear: something dogfooding?
05:30 sorear no.
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05:31 sorear I may just get a bigger VPS and move all of p6eval there
05:31 sorear getting rid of the 1/3 split would probably help
05:38 FROGGS joined #perl6
05:43 bonsaikitten if y'all need some hosting help, I might have some spare capacity
05:46 Teratogen I have an amazon ec2 vps!
05:46 Teratogen it's free!
05:46 Teratogen (for a year)
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06:02 sorear bonsaikitten: baseline memory usage is going to be lowesh, but it needs to tolerate spikes up to 2-3G without thrashing; disk requirements are probably dominated by the jdk1.7
06:03 bonsaikitten sorear: sounds tolerable
06:03 bonsaikitten if you can live with a hard cap at, say, 3GB
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06:10 * sorear is trying to get CATCH working in rakudo now
06:12 FROGGS ++sorear
06:33 * sorear savors the irony that rakudo-jvm currently has working multiprompt delimited continuations but mostly not exceptions
06:34 FROGGS :P
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06:40 sorear nqp: try die()
06:40 camelia nqp:  ( no output )
06:46 sorear die("foo") works correctly.  try { nqp::die("foo") } works correctly.  try { die("foo") } doesn't catch the exception
06:47 FROGGS O.o
06:55 sorear oh, I see, (I think)... p6 exception objects are getting thrown as control exceptions with an invalid type, so they can't be caught at all
07:02 dalek nqp: f16d02d | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/VMExceptionInstance.java:
07:02 dalek nqp: Default new exceptions to EX_CAT_CATCH
07:02 dalek nqp:
07:02 dalek nqp: I don't know if this is right, but it's less wrong than defaulting them to an
07:02 dalek nqp: invalid (0) category that is impossible to catch.
07:02 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f16d02dc28
07:02 timotimo_ early morning coding: first attempt at making @foo.>>.uc work
07:05 * sorear would like to get to a state where you don't need --ll-exception all the time
07:05 FROGGS that would be cool, yes
07:06 FROGGS timotimo_: what is your motivation? is it specced that way?
07:06 FROGGS r: my @foo = 'A' .. 'F'; say @foo>>.uc
07:06 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«A B C D E F␤»
07:08 timotimo_ it is specced that that's allowed
07:08 timotimo_ std: <foo bar baz quux>.>>.uc
07:08 camelia std d4cc5ab: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
07:08 timotimo_ std: (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).>>++
07:08 camelia std d4cc5ab: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
07:08 timotimo_ r: <foo bar baz quux>.>>.uc
07:08 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Confusedâ�¤at /tmp/KSnFk4vbPj:1â�¤------> [32m<foo bar baz quux>.[33mâ��[31m>>.uc[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        dotty method or postfixâ�¤Â»
07:08 timotimo_ r: <foo bar baz quux>>>.uc.perl.say
07:08 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«("FOO", "BAR", "BAZ", "QUUX")␤»
07:08 timotimo_ i think >.>>. looks a bit nicer than >>>.
07:08 sorear n: <aa bb cc>.>>.uc.perl.say
07:09 camelia niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«["AA", "BB", "CC"].list␤»
07:09 timotimo_ also, std allows unspace there
07:09 timotimo_ std: <foo bar baz quux>\    .>>\    .uc.perl.say
07:09 camelia std d4cc5ab: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
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07:11 timotimo_ well, it works locally now.
07:11 timotimo_ just need to run spectests now
07:11 FROGGS cool
07:11 timotimo_ was pretty darn easy, too :)
07:11 FROGGS timotimo_: btw, I fixed the &&= / .= bug
07:11 FROGGS (in v5)
07:12 timotimo_ is the commit up already? i'd like to see what you had to change
07:12 FROGGS no, not yet
07:12 FROGGS the infix:<.=> must return a variable and needs to be rw
07:12 timotimo_ ah, an is rw was missing
07:12 timotimo_ i was *so* close :)
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07:13 FROGGS yeah, and .= (concat_op in actions) made a bind, I changed it to p6store
07:13 sorear looks like it's currently failing because printing a backtrace ultimately involves iterating over a range, and RangeIter is not happy
07:14 timotimo_ sorear, that's pretty cool!
07:14 FROGGS ahh, hehe
07:14 sorear ...because cmp doesn't work...
07:16 timotimo_ sorear: is that the only reason? :)
07:16 sorear timotimo_: no, there are other reasons hidig behind it I'm sure
07:17 * timotimo_ expects 0 failed tests and a few todo passes
07:18 sorear i'm not even trying to run tests at this point
07:19 timotimo_ (my changes, not yours ;) )
07:19 FROGGS meh, and I thought sorear is crosscompiling to timotimo_  *g*
07:22 moritz maybe we should deactive pretty backtraces in rakudo-jvm for now
07:22 moritz *deactivate
07:24 timotimo_ oh, i probably don't get the todo passes because they were hard-skipped for rakudo
07:28 timotimo_ (my @r = (1, 4, 9))».++;  -  Method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' not found for invocant of class 'Int'  -  er?!
07:28 timotimo_ r: say (1, 2, 3)>>.++;
07:28 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in sub METAOP_HYPER_CALL at src/gen/CORE.setting:14143␤  in block  at /tmp/AdFckmwzgW:1␤␤»
07:28 timotimo_ there were tests for this, but they didn't fail because the whole block was skipped due to the .>> form missing
07:29 * sorear peels back another layer
07:29 sorear cmp is failing because Order.(1) doesn't work
07:31 timotimo_ i think the qast that gets generated from that is wrong
07:32 timotimo_ https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a60e3321e57046edaa39 - seems to not mention the ++ operator at all
07:34 FROGGS timotimo_: maybe the dump is incomplete
07:34 timotimo_ that would be a possibility for sure :(
07:34 FROGGS because it calls a &METAOP_HYPER_CALL
07:35 FROGGS timotimo_: you could dump the @a>>++ form to compare
07:35 sorear r: say Order ~~ Enumeration
07:35 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«False␤»
07:35 timotimo_ that calls QAST::Op(call &METAOP_HYPER_POSTFIX) with the list and then QAST::Var(lexical &postfix:<++>)
07:36 sorear r: say Order.^roles
07:36 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«No such method 'roles' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::EnumHOW'␤  in block  at /tmp/aY78vovQzl:1␤␤»
07:36 timotimo_ it would still be a net win if i unskip the block, re-skip the >>.++ forms and put that up?
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07:37 moritz yes
07:39 sorear > Order.^methods(:local)
07:39 sorear postcircumfix:<( )> perl roll pair kv pick Int enums Str Numeric gist <anon> <anon>
07:39 sorear > Order.(2)
07:39 sorear Method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' not found
07:39 sorear umm
07:40 timotimo_ i don't think i understand skipping
07:40 timotimo_ don't i put a #?rakudo skip 'explanation' newline { newline code newline };?
07:42 moritz should work, and skip the block
07:42 timotimo_ does it only work on top-level blocks?
07:42 timotimo_ https://gist.github.com/anonymous/17fbd409820a3da23724 - looks like this currently
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07:43 timotimo_ the skip seems to generate its own braces around only the first line in the block or something?
07:43 timotimo_ do i need the #?DOES 3 thing?
07:44 timotimo_ nope, don't
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07:44 moritz it might only work with top-level blocks
07:44 moritz I remember some fudge strangeness with that
07:44 sorear I also need to do something about the rakudo-jvm startup time
07:44 timotimo_ right. i'll cut out the non-working parts temporarily
07:45 moritz sorear: port it to moarvm? :-)
07:45 sorear real    0m7.348s
07:45 sorear user    0m13.399s
07:45 sorear "on the plus side, it seems to be automatically using both my cores"
07:46 flaviusb joined #perl6
07:46 timotimo_ :D
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07:47 pr_ Hello, when I read lines from a DOS Ansi-Latin-1 file with Rakudo Perl 2013.05, I get a "malformed utf-8 error" on following block: for $fh.lines -> $line { say $line; }. Any help would be much appreciated. pr
07:48 moritz pr_: pass :encoding<Latin-1> to the open() call
07:49 pr_ That did it. Thanks. Any documentation on this anywhere?
07:49 nwc10 sorear: This is the JVM? I observed this. Hypothesis is that it's one core for real work, and one core for the GC
07:50 nwc10 sorear: also, jnthn might have some thoughts on JVM startup time.
07:50 nwc10 Parrot has to be better for something :-)
07:50 timotimo_ sadly, dotty postfix ops seems to be much more complicated
07:50 nwc10 (Although right now, lets not forget, Parrot is still most complete platform for Rakudo)
07:51 moritz pr_: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/IO.html#Functions
07:53 pr_ "method encoding": found it. merci.
07:54 moritz and the           Str  :$enc = "Unicode",
07:54 moritz argument to open()
07:54 moritz I guess we allow :encoding as a synonym for :enc
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07:57 timotimo_ i don't understand the reasoning behind dotty:sym<.*> adding a dispatch:<.> to the dottyop that is created from, for instance ++ in $foo.++
07:58 timotimo_ (especially when dispatch:<.> doesn't seem to exist)
07:58 timotimo_ er, no, postfix:<.> is the one that doesn't exist
07:59 timotimo_ hm.
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08:09 sorear Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..-1, but got 0
08:11 flaviusb joined #perl6
08:13 diakopter sorear: *giggle*
08:18 sorear apparently nqp-jvm is systematically failing to pass the invokee as an argument to nonstandard invoke routines
08:18 sorear so Order.(1) is getting mangled into 1()
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08:21 diakopter sorear: maybe it's interpreting -1 as Inf
08:21 diakopter (I just realized)
08:22 dalek roast: 5a7f157 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/categorize.t:
08:22 dalek roast: First batch of additional categorize tests
08:22 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5a7f157922
08:22 lizmat good morning #perl6 from Nancy, France
08:22 lizmat about to decommute  :)
08:22 rindolf joined #perl6
08:23 FROGGS hi lizmat
08:27 flaviusb joined #perl6
08:33 sorear o/
08:35 woolfy left #perl6
08:37 lizmat on our way back home, with some sightseeing on the way…  see you all in ~6 hours&
08:41 dakkar joined #perl6
08:41 dalek nqp: 932e096 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/ (3 files):
08:41 dalek nqp: Add invokee as first argument to invocation handlers for Parrot consistency and basic sanity
08:41 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/932e0968a2
08:45 timotimo_ sorear: suddenly everything up the chain works, too?
08:46 flaviusb joined #perl6
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08:53 masak good antenoon, #perl6
08:53 diakopter hi masak
08:54 * TimToady is glad to see that sorear++ and diakopter++ now know each other well enough that the occasional snippiness at each other's abbreviated style no longer jeopardizes the friendship :)
08:54 timotimo_ \o/
08:55 TimToady (backlogging, as you might surmise :)
08:57 sorear timotimo_: no, I get an inch futher
08:57 sorear method postcircumfix:<( )>($ ($x)) {
08:57 sorear $x ~~ ::?CLASS ?? $x !! self.^enum_from_value($x)
08:57 sorear }
08:57 sorear the good news is we can now properly call postcircumfix:<( )>
08:58 sorear ACCEPTS is blowing up.
08:58 * TimToady finds the pun on unacceptable to be unacceptable...
08:59 * timotimo_ heads towards uni
08:59 timotimo_ on a bike
08:59 timotimo_ in 30 degC :(
08:59 TimToady don't get run over
08:59 diakopter brrrrr
08:59 sorear no wifi on the bike, eh
08:59 diakopter oh wait
08:59 timotimo_ there's bike lanes all the way to the uni, except for a few meters all in all :)
08:59 sorear i hear they have it on trains and planes now
09:00 TimToady diakopter: you were thinking Kelvin :P
09:00 timotimo_ oh, you probably meant actual humans *running* me over, like on foot
09:00 timotimo_ yeah, that could happen
09:00 timotimo_ i'll be careful, thanks!
09:00 pr_ joined #perl6
09:00 sorear timotimo_: try not to catch fire either
09:00 TimToady (when you halt)
09:01 sorear good antenoon masak
09:02 * diakopter comes upon a way to determine if a non-gmail.com address is actually a gmail address
09:02 diakopter xmpp leaks
09:05 pr_ Hi, in Perl6, is it possible to conditionally create variables? eg, let's say I am reading a bunch of csv files and generating sql files to insert the data into a database. Each csv file has a different structure: whereas file 1 has 10 columns, file 2 has 12,etc. Is there a way to shorten/lengthen the number of declared variables based on the file name? eg, my ($v1,$v2) = split("\t"... in the case of file 1, my ($v1,$v2,$v3) in case the s
09:06 TimToady generally that means you want an array or hash instead
09:07 TimToady and no, you can't change the number of lexically declared variables without something like an eval
09:07 pr_ Could a macro do this?
09:07 diakopter not at runtime
09:07 diakopter ... if you read in the file at macro time........ zugh
09:08 sorear ok, I'm getting my current problem because subsignatures are busted.   sub bob($ ($x)) { say nqp::isnull($x) }; bob(\5)'  # 1
09:08 sorear exactly how many perl 6 features does "1..5" use?
09:09 diakopter about avogadro's number
09:09 TimToady at least one, which is itself
09:09 TimToady since a 1..5 returns 2..5 when iterated
09:13 FROGGS is it right that this behaviour is now against the spec?
09:13 FROGGS r: say 1 for Nil
09:13 camelia rakudo b2072f:  ( no output )
09:13 sorear ah, I'm running into a NYI in the binder
09:14 TimToady FROGGS: yes, that should say 1 once now, not assume that Nil means ()
09:14 FROGGS great, thanks
09:15 FROGGS TimToady: do we still need all of these? Nil, Any, Mu, Whatever? I have problems remembering what to take when :/
09:15 TimToady they all mean different things
09:17 TimToady musée &
09:19 FROGGS fair enough
09:19 kaleem joined #perl6
09:30 pr_ Hi, I am having an issue with long heredocs in p6 2013.5. Is this the right place to mention it?
09:31 timotimo_ didn't catch fire on the way :)
09:31 timotimo_ even got here on time
09:31 moritz pr_: yes, feel free to ask
09:31 sorear so why is it that the rakudo C code is free of line-end whitespace but the Java code is absolutely dripping with the stuff?
09:32 pr_ How do I post 10 lines of code here?
09:32 sorear pastebin-type site
09:32 nwc10 is there a test that fails if you add whitespace to the C code? And no such test for the Java code?
09:32 moritz pr_: use a paste bin, gist.github.com if you don't prefer something else
09:32 * sorear constantly has to resist doing a find | xargs perl -ipe
09:32 moritz nwc10: there used to be a test, when rakudo was part of parrot
09:33 sorear nwc10: would jnthn kill me if I added such a test?
09:33 pr_ What's a "paste bin"?
09:33 nwc10 sorear: I don't know. To make it pass you'd have to remove all the current whitespace
09:33 moritz pr_: a website where you can enter your 10 lines of code, and give us the URL where we can view it
09:33 nwc10 It wouldn't be terrible on git blame
09:33 nwc10 but I'd ask him first
09:34 moritz sorear: experience shows that he'll just commit his changes with tests failing :-)
09:34 nwc10 (you can blame without whitespace, but not on the gitweb interface)
09:34 nwc10 we need to put a lock on his beer fridge which only releases when all tests pass
09:34 sorear pre-commit hook?
09:34 sorear nwc10: heh
09:35 moritz is it actualy worth the effort?
09:36 sorear moritz: the { and } commands in vim don't work if you have whitespace on your blank lines, and fixing vim seems like more effort :p
09:36 nwc10 I think that having a test is worth it. Otherwise ugliness gradually slips in
09:36 sorear also I have my vimrc set up to highlight EOL whitespace
09:36 nwc10 and then the git blame history gets messed up with "tidy up whitespace" type commits
09:36 nwc10 which 10 years from now will be hateful
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09:38 pr_ I have just pasted the code here: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5795786
09:39 masak pr_: looks like a function call...
09:39 masak r: my $foo = "foo"; say "$foo(1, 2, 3)"
09:39 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/zeZyjquCVc:1␤␤»
09:39 masak pr_: is this the error you get?
09:39 masak r: my $foo = "foo"; say "$foo\(1, 2, 3)"
09:39 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«foo(1, 2, 3)␤»
09:39 masak pr_: try it like that.
09:40 moritz or try    qq :s :heredoc 'EOT';
09:40 moritz then only scalars should be interpolated, no function call syntax
09:41 pr_ moritz: :s does not make any difference
09:41 sorear .ask jnthn Would it be insane for me to rename org.perl6.rakudo.Ops to RakOps or something so we don't have to fully qualify all the time?
09:41 yoleaux sorear: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
09:41 * diakopter stumbles across this in the clogs  http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2009-11-27#i_1775684
09:42 pr_ companyname is not a function call. It's just a database column name in a long heredoc.
09:42 masak diakopter: heh :)
09:43 masak pr_: if you write "$var(...)" in a string, even a heredoc, Perl 6 will read that as a function call.
09:43 masak pr_: you haven't said that's the problem, but I'm currently assuming it is.
09:43 moritz r: my $x = 'foo'; say "$x()"
09:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/zHsI5B0hVc:1␤␤»
09:43 moritz r: my $x = 'foo'; say q:s"$x()"
09:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/csCxmndlcT:1␤␤»
09:43 diakopter masak: when do comedies of errors become tragedies?
09:44 masak diakopter: depends on one's disposition, I should think.
09:44 chayin_ joined #perl6
09:48 pr_ masak: putting a backslash before the left parens next to $csv_file did the trick. thx.
09:55 sorear sleep&
10:13 timotimo_ interesting, i got to a point in debugging where $_.++ will generate a dottyop with an NQPMu as its .ast
10:13 timotimo_ is that due to backtracking fixing it later or is the grammar in that case faulty?
10:14 FROGGS I'd say the grammar doesnt fit the actions (or vice-versa)
10:19 timotimo_ i may be barking up the wrong tree entirely and there should be something more in the grammar than just dottyop:sym<.> and :sym<.*>
10:22 FROGGS can you paste a diff?
10:25 timotimo_ the only additions i made are some nqp::say's spread over dotty and dottyop
10:25 timotimo_ i'll need to relocate in a few minutes
10:25 FROGGS hmmm, okay
10:38 kresike joined #perl6
10:38 kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
10:41 FROGGS hi kresike
10:43 kresike FROGGS, o/
10:46 domidumont joined #perl6
10:48 cognominal nr: my $i = 1; 'a' ~~ / 'a' ** $i /
10:48 camelia niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Unsupported use of atom ** $i as separator; nowadays please use atom+ % $i at /tmp/CZeVkCIWmS line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy $i = 1; 'a' ~~ / 'a' ** $i[33mâ��[31m /[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
10:48 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Quantifier quantifies nothingâ�¤at /tmp/gbCq9vjr6B:1â�¤------> [32mmy $i = 1; 'a' ~~ / 'a' ** [33mâ��[31m$i /[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        pref…
10:49 FROGGS cognominal: NYI, I already tried to do that without luck
10:49 cognominal FROGGS, thx
10:50 * cognominal searches for a workaround
10:51 masak cognominal: match with * or +, then check the number of matches in a <?{ ... }>
10:51 FROGGS nr: regex atom { 'a' }; my $i = 1; 'a' ~~ / [<?{ $i--; } <atom>]* /
10:51 camelia niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Methods must be used in some kind of package at /tmp/sMvKsVIfg4 line 1:�------> [32mregex atom [33m�[31m{ 'a' }; my $i = 1; 'a' ~~ / [<?{ $i--; [0m��Unable to parse metachar:sym<< >> at /tmp/sMvKsVIfg4 line 1:�------> […
10:51 camelia ..rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainlineâ�¤[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracketâ�¤at /tmp/gE5kjN8bTs:1â�¤------> [32m 'a' }; my $i = 1; 'a' ~~ / [<?{ $i--; }[33mâ��[31m <atom>]* /[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        â€¦
10:51 cognominal masak: indeed
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10:52 FROGGS nr: my regex atom { 'a' }; my $i = 1; say 'aaa' ~~ / [<?{ $i-- }> <atom>]* /
10:52 cognominal …using a non greedy qunatifier to avoid to much backtracking.
10:52 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«「a」␤ atom => 「a」␤␤»
10:52 FROGGS nr: my regex atom { 'a' }; my $i = 7; say 'aaa' ~~ / [<?{ $i-- }> <atom>]* / # it is almost good :o)
10:52 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«「aaa」␤ atom => 「a」␤ atom => 「a」␤ atom => 「a」␤␤»
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10:53 FROGGS well, you could make it fail when $i is nonzero
10:53 FROGGS nr: my regex atom { 'a' }; my $i = 7; say 'aaa' ~~ / [<?{ $i-- }> <atom>]* <!{ $i }>/ # test
10:53 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«「aa」␤ atom => 「a」␤ atom => 「a」␤␤»
10:54 FROGGS hmmm
10:54 masak FROGGS: that doesn't seem very compatible with backtracking.
10:54 FROGGS true
10:56 FROGGS masak: I run into something similar: I did something about heredocs, which added the stopper twice to a list because of a <?term>
11:06 masak oh! day after tomorrow is #masakism again! \o/
11:06 masak an evening of great group hacking and discussion.
11:07 masak it seems that the core group of attendees will be smaller this time. maybe there will be more time for discussion and looking at individual solutions.
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11:31 cognominal by the way, should we say "forwardtracking" for non greedy quantifiers?  :)
11:32 moritz "forthtracking"
11:35 cognominal I like FORTH, the language, but everytime the word is uttered, this zardozian image pops up in my mind :http://koti.mbnet.fi/manki1/mainoksia/Atari_forth.jpg
11:36 masak no, "backtracking" is fine, because the direction "back" pertains to regex-space, not to string-space.
11:38 cognominal yes, until non greedy qantifiers, backtracking applied to the two spaces.
11:38 * moritz just spent two hours debugging a problem which turned out to be stale caches, proving the proverb about the two hardest problems in CS
11:39 cognominal moritz, what is the second hardest?
11:39 moritz cognominal: the proverb goes like this: The two hardest problems in CS are naming, cache invalidation and off-by-one errors
11:41 masak moritz: jnthn has started saying that the two hardest problems in CS are cache invalidation and cache invalidation :)
11:41 timotimo_ i declare making $_.++ work too hard for now.
11:42 masak moritz: (which is sufficiently autopunny for my taste)
11:44 timotimo_ https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/164 - pr'd my work so far :)
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12:03 JimmyZ $_.++ works in alpha, for some reason, it lost in nom :P
12:04 timotimo_ :)
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12:08 pmurias one annoying thing about --target=ast is that for large files the source code for a given AST node takes a lot of screen space
12:08 pmurias any ideas how to fix that?
12:08 timotimo_ send it through a perl one-liner? :))
12:08 timotimo_ open it in a pager that won't do word wrapping?
12:09 moritz pmurias: AST simply isn't a terse, human-readable representation
12:10 timotimo_ moritz: the trouble is that each AST node will print the source code it was made from after itself
12:10 moritz but limited to max. 50 chars or so, no?
12:10 timotimo_ not sure
12:11 timotimo_ nope, it's full
12:11 moritz that's something that should be fixed, then
12:11 timotimo_ i can totally do that
12:12 pmurias my other idea is to spit out html+js so that things could be expanded on a click or something like that
12:13 timotimo_ if i put in the trimming in QAST::Node.dump, that won't be possible any more
12:15 pmurias timotimo_: emitting an interactive page directly from QAST::Node seems a better idea then parsing the textual output from --target=ast
12:15 pmurias so I wouldn't worry about that
12:16 timotimo_ you are suggesting an extra --target perhaps?
12:16 timotimo_ so that the content of the .dump method doesn't matter to you?
12:17 pmurias for an richer output I suggest an extra --target
12:18 moritz or an environment variable
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12:26 timotimo_ https://gist.github.com/timo/3cf2ef1bdd0b0dedd0d7 - my suggestion for autopun of the day
12:27 tadzik hehe
12:28 timotimo_ well, ./perl6-jvm -> use Test gives an error, so maybe that's the exception that flew?
12:29 timotimo_ (when trying to run the tests in t/01-sanity/
12:29 timotimo_ and failing to get any running at all)
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12:31 FROGGS hehe
12:31 FROGGS timotimo_++
12:40 timotimo still amazed by the rote speed of jakudo parsing
12:40 timotimo Stage parse      :  91.597 <- parrot | jvm -> Stage parse      :  37.542
12:40 moritz last I looked, 'use v6;' blew up on rakudo-jvm
12:40 timotimo ah, indeed
12:41 timotimo does "use v6;" do anything at all? i thought it was just a little nothing in the grammar or something
12:43 moritz it seems to do just a wee bit more
12:43 * masak .oO( they whispered sweet nothings to each other -- mostly just no-op pragrams )
12:44 moritz are "pragrams" a mixture of "pragmas" and "programs"?
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12:49 FROGGS use v6 is a noop in rakudo currently
12:50 FROGGS moritz: about the blew-up, jnthn said something about that issue a week ago or so
12:52 [Coke] it's the main blocker at the moment to running the test suite.
12:53 [Coke] (internal one, not spec.)
12:53 masak moritz: no, just a typo :)
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12:58 [Coke] another day of this channel being the only perl6 news on google alerts.
12:59 timotimo :(
13:02 masak r: my @stuff = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; my @old = 1, 2, 3; say @stuff (-) @old
13:02 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«set(4, 5)␤»
13:03 moritz r: my @stuff = 1..4; say @stuff (-) 0..3;
13:03 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«set("1", "2", "3", "4")..3␤»
13:03 timotimo let in the new, throw out the old.
13:03 moritz r: my @stuff = 1..4; say @stuff (-) (0..3);
13:03 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«set(4)␤»
13:03 timotimo haha :)
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13:25 timotimo fwiw, the error experienced by use v6 comes from my $v := $*W.find_symbol(["Version"]).new(~$<vfoo>);
13:25 timotimo and also, my $v = Version.new("v6"); will give a NPE
13:26 timotimo > my @parts = "v6".comb(/:r '*' || \d+ || <.alpha>+/);
13:26 timotimo java.lang.NullPointerException
13:27 timotimo it would appear .comb is broken and that causes version objects to not be creatable
13:27 timotimo does it sound terrible to add a #?jvm block that special-cases "v6"?
13:28 dalek roast: e924fe3 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/set.t:
13:28 dalek roast: Tests for reduce on set union and intersection
13:28 dalek roast:
13:28 dalek roast: Add a first few simple tests for reduce meta-op on union and intersection.
13:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e924fe3388
13:28 colomon not at all surprised comb is broken... I imagine it relies on gather / take, and that's not there yet.
13:29 timotimo could be
13:29 timotimo i'm testing my ugly hack that checks if the string is "v6" ;)
13:29 colomon a temporary hack to make "use v6" work seems like a Very Good Thing.
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13:34 timotimo didn't get me much closer to the finish line it seems
13:35 timotimo weird, the find symbol + new thing still fails?
13:38 timotimo (probably because i misunderstood what text gets passed to the constructor)
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13:49 colomon rn: say (set <a b c>) (|) (set <1 2 3>) (|) (set <z y x>)
13:49 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 3 but expected 2␤  in sub infix:<(|)> at src/gen/CORE.setting:13260␤  in block  at /tmp/k4xPGuWPGG:1␤␤»
13:49 camelia ..niecza v24-76-g3e65d84: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to infix:<(|)>, used 2 of 3 positionals␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (infix:<(|)> @ 1) ␤  at /tmp/Ld1DNnVEs6 line 1 (mainline @ 6) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4530 (ANON @ 3) ␤  …
13:50 panchiniak_ joined #perl6
13:50 dalek niecza: 2b14288 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
13:50 dalek niecza: Change set union and intersection to be proper list operators.
13:50 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2b14288459
13:50 colomon clearly still need more set op tests!
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13:53 * colomon thinks he has fixed that one in Niecza...
14:00 masak colomon++ # somebody set up us the tests
14:00 masak s/set up/set op/
14:00 masak :)
14:02 colomon After that test above, I now suspect the new reduce on union and intersection tests I pushed will fail on Rakudo
14:02 colomon When I did them, I assumed they would work.
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14:11 dalek perl6-roast-data: 67df23f | coke++ | / (4 files):
14:11 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
14:11 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/67df23f6db
14:11 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1339dce | coke++ | / (3 files):
14:11 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
14:11 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/1339dce0df
14:12 [Coke] niecza has been dirty for 334 days. pugs has been clean for 5 days. rakudo has been clean for 2 days.
14:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 9a83b7d | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
14:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/9a83b7d80e
14:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 7455ddb | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
14:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/7455ddbc4c
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14:17 timotimo java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: org.perl6.rakudo.Ops.p6routinereturn(Lorg/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/SixModelObject;Lorg/perl6/nqp/runtime/ThreadContext;)Lorg/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/SixModelObject;
14:17 timotimo my fault or known error?
14:20 * timotimo runs the sanity test suite now
14:23 FROGGS timotimo: FYI: the bind=>p6store wasnt needed for the v5-issue
14:26 benabik joined #perl6
14:28 timotimo i'll issue a pullrequest for the "use v6" fix now after a bit of testing
14:29 [Coke] timotimo++
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14:32 timotimo failing a couple, a few of the test files run through completely, though
14:32 [Coke] that's about what I saw when I just commented out 'use v6;' earlier.
14:32 timotimo mhm
14:32 [Coke] timotimo++
14:32 dalek v5: 4a5c04a | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Actions.nqp:
14:32 dalek v5: dispatch operators to overload-able subs
14:32 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/4a5c04aea7
14:32 dalek v5: 00becb9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
14:32 dalek v5: added method P5Numeric
14:32 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/00becb9cce
14:32 dalek v5: b141e6f | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/overload.pm:
14:32 dalek v5: added more operators, and fallbacks based on <=>
14:32 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/b141e6f8cb
14:32 dalek v5: 15fec8a | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
14:32 dalek v5: update after Str.P5Numeric and overload.pm update
14:32 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/15fec8a2c7
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14:47 dalek rakudo-js: ea49f2f | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/QAST/Compiler/JavaScript.nqp:
14:47 dalek rakudo-js: Handle QAST::Var's with 'static' as decl.
14:47 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/ea49f2ff9d
14:48 dalek nqp: 1729750 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/QAST/Var.nqp:
14:48 dalek nqp: Make --target=ast print out the value of decl on QAST::Var.
14:48 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/172975058d
14:48 FROGGS it is awesome what is happening these days^^
14:50 [Coke] can all nqp opcodes be run both directly with nqp:: and via QAST::Op ?
14:50 dalek nqp: c2eba21 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/QAST/Node.nqp:
14:50 dalek nqp: if the code part of a node is too long, truncate it.
14:50 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c2eba219ef
14:50 timotimo here's that fix i forgot to actually push
14:51 [Coke] nqp::say() is invokable 3 ways, it seems: nqp::say, say, and via QAST. wondering if all opcodes are similarly functional.
14:54 [Coke] while, on the other hand, looks like it has the builtin and the :op, is probably not invokable with nqp::while.
14:54 [Coke] (well, it is invokable, but not in a hepful way. can someone write an example where it works?)
14:57 pmurias [Coke]: via QAST?
14:58 pmurias [Coke]: the difference between say and nqp::say is that say can handle multiple arguments
14:58 pmurias nqp: say("Hello","[Coke]");
14:58 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«Hello[Coke]␤»
14:58 pmurias what would be a good site for a GSoC project blog?
14:59 FROGGS blogs.perl.org?
15:01 masak +1
15:03 [Coke] nqp: nqp::say("thing", "2");
15:03 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op say (source text: "nqp::say(\"thing\", \"2\")"): Operation 'say' requires 1 operands, but got 2␤current instr.: '' pc 48612 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:17766) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2981)␤»
15:03 [Coke] pmurias: no, I'm wondering if you can write an example that shows a functioning while loop with nqp::while
15:04 [Coke] nqp: nqp::while();
15:04 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op while (source text: "nqp::while()"): Method 'fresh_' not found for invocant of class 'RegAlloc'␤current instr.: '' pc 48612 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:17766) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2981)␤»
15:04 [Coke] (or if I should just abandon that, and assume that everything in docs/nqp-opcodes.txt is for QAST usage.
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15:12 pmurias [Coke]: why do you want to write a while in such a way?
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15:15 pmurias [Coke]: my $i:=3;nqp::while($i,say($i),$i--)
15:15 pmurias nqp: my $i:=3;nqp::while($i,say($i),$i--)
15:15 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«3␤2␤1␤»
15:16 kresike bye folks
15:16 pmurias http://blogs.perl.org/users/pawel_murias/2013/06/first-inchstone.html
15:23 masak pmurias++
15:26 pmurias just relised that I need to fix an updated test case to full pass the inchstone ;/
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15:40 [Coke] pmurias: I don't, particularly. Trying to come up with some prose for the leadin of new nqp opcode docs.
15:40 [Coke] wondering why your invocation of nqp::while there has 3 args when it's "documented" as taking only 2
15:50 Ulti joined #perl6
15:56 pmurias [Coke]: the third argument is the 3rd argument in for (;;...) {}
15:56 pmurias [Coke]: I myself avoid looking at the current nqp opcode docs
15:58 [Coke] pmurias: if we're trying to get more people to use nqp, I'd rather fix the docs then tell people to avoid them.
15:58 [Coke] *than*
15:59 [Coke] looks like i will have to avoid the existing ones when generating new ones, though.
16:00 pmurias having better docs would be great
16:09 pmurias [Coke]: I had to rewrite a lot of things in nqp-js as I had to figure a lot of things by trial and error rather then by having good docs avalible
16:10 dalek rakudo-js: ce87e59 | (Pawel Murias)++ | nqp:
16:10 dalek rakudo-js: Update the npq submodule.
16:10 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/ce87e59990
16:10 dalek rakudo-js: 5e1cd98 | (Pawel Murias)++ | runtime.js:
16:10 dalek rakudo-js: Enable stringification of exceptions. Fix failing test 44.
16:10 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo-js/commit/5e1cd98a3f
16:10 atroxaper left #perl6
16:14 TimToady pmurias++ # "inchstone"  :)
16:20 diakopter [Coke]++ awesome error of the month  Method 'fresh_' not found for invocant of class 'RegAlloc'
16:28 sorear timotimo-- duplicating my work
16:28 [Coke] which work? making 'use v6' work?
16:29 pjcj joined #perl6
16:29 sorear timotimo: if you pull sorear/rakudo, you'll find that p6routinereturn exists, as does gather/take
16:29 sorear [Coke]: yes
16:32 [Coke] ah. I also had no idea you were tackling that issue.
16:32 tgt joined #perl6
16:39 timotimo yays! :)
16:40 timotimo sorear: does  use v6;  work in that repo?
16:40 timotimo also: sorry :(
16:43 sorear not quiiiite
16:45 sorear comb works, though. :)
16:45 timotimo yays :)
16:45 timotimo what part doesn't work?
16:45 sorear eq.
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16:48 timotimo ah, interesting
16:48 timotimo in the selftests, == with "0" and "0" doesn't work either
16:51 colomon sorear++
16:51 dalek v5: ddc0fc6 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Actions.nqp:
16:51 dalek v5: added overload-able op /
16:51 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/ddc0fc6fe9
16:51 dalek v5: 68c800e | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/ (2 files):
16:51 dalek v5: call .P5Numeric for numeric operations
16:51 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/68c800ec7f
16:51 dalek v5: 5c6edcf | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
16:51 dalek v5: call .P5Numeric for numeric operations
16:51 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/5c6edcfa8c
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16:59 lizmat good *, #perl6!
17:00 masak lizmat! \o/
17:00 lizmat back in Echt, really!
17:04 ajr joined #perl6
17:10 masak O ECHT?
17:10 lizmat jah!
17:11 perigrin Crums DM, Oh Echt, Oh Crikey -- Penfold.
17:11 lizmat perigrin!
17:20 woolfy joined #perl6
17:23 perigrin lizmat!
17:24 tgt joined #perl6
17:24 lizmat glad to see you're not just lurking on #perl6 :-)
17:24 perigrin no no no I make the occasional random and mildly snarky comment too!
17:24 lizmat community building++
17:25 perigrin :D
17:28 masak it's true. I checked the backlog.
17:30 colomon This is the perigrin who had dinner with us that first Saturday night at YAPC::NA?  o/
17:30 masak I believe so.
17:30 dalek roast: f66aba6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/classify.t:
17:30 dalek roast: Added named sub test, just like with categorize
17:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f66aba6c44
17:33 timotimo sorear: well, $x == $x where $x is the string "0" won't work because Method 'Bridge' not found
17:34 lizmat colomon, masak: perigrin is also one of the YAPC::NA 2014 organizers  :-)
17:34 lizmat we found out tonight is the last night ST Into Darkness is showing in our local service cinema
17:34 masak perigrin: if YAPC::NA 2014 is anything like YAPC::NA 2013, then well done! :P
17:34 colomon lizmat: I knew that the perigrin we had dinner with was.  :)  Just wasn't 100% sure that was how he spelled his nick, if you know what I mean.
17:35 lizmat so, we're off for some 3D spectacle(s), double baileys and 1 set of chicken nuggets and 1 set of cheese sticks
17:35 benabik Has a location for ::NA '14 been announced?
17:35 colomon timotimo: that's probably something to do with roles, I'm guessing?
17:35 colomon benabik: Orlando
17:36 lizmat off to see some James Tiberius Kirk, reimagined
17:36 tgt joined #perl6
17:36 colomon lizmat: yay!  I'm looking forward to seeing that someday...
17:42 timotimo colomon: but i'm able to "0".Numeric with no problem and it should dispatch through that, no?
17:42 colomon .... dunno.
17:45 tomyan joined #perl6
17:46 timotimo well, it works with "0" == "0" but not with $x == $x
17:46 timotimo i don't know how to figure out if the role isn't added properly
17:46 timotimo $x.^methods is unfortunately empty
17:48 dmol joined #perl6
17:50 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
17:50 yoleaux 14 Jun 2013 16:13Z <lizmat> pmichaud: Maybe it is an idea to have a 2nd optional parameter to .classify|.categorize to indicate the hash to classify/categorize into?
17:50 moritz timotimo: with does?
17:51 timotimo my $x = "0";?
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18:00 colomon timotimo: I'll try to take a look at it
18:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: c6291af | coke++ | / (4 files):
18:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/c6291af9a6
18:01 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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18:21 colomon timotimo: I'm not able to do "0".Numeric.  :(
18:21 colomon \
18:21 colomon > "0".Numeric
18:21 colomon java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: org.perl6.rakudo.Ops.p6routinereturn(Lorg/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/SixModelObject;Lorg/perl6/nqp/runtime/ThreadContext;)Lorg/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/SixModelObject;
18:21 timotimo you need sorear's code for that to work
18:21 timotimo sorear/rakudo
18:22 colomon ah.
18:22 timotimo i don't have access to my desktop right now (busted v6)
18:22 timotimo so i can't really work on that any more :|
18:24 minibota joined #perl6
18:26 colomon timotimo: Ah, I see it now.
18:26 colomon > "0".Numeric
18:26 colomon 0
18:27 timotimo yes, but curiously, my $x = "0"; $x.Numeric may not work?
18:27 zby_home_ joined #perl6
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18:30 colomon timotimo: actually that works fine for me.
18:30 colomon > my $x = "0"; $x.Numeric
18:30 colomon 0
18:30 timotimo oh?
18:30 timotimo try $x == $x
18:31 colomon $x == 0 works
18:31 colomon but
18:31 colomon > $x == $x
18:31 colomon Method 'Bridge' not found
18:32 colomon that's actually a very odd error
18:32 pmichaud seems like an indication that a multimethod is missing somewhere.
18:33 colomon JVM is just using the normal setting, right?  I'm not looking at the wrong code here?
18:34 perigrin masak: I hope it will be. I hope it will be better actually :)
18:35 timotimo it does, yes
18:36 colomon > class A { method Numeric { say "Called Numeric;" 14; }; };
18:36 colomon VMArray representation does not implement at_pos_boxed
18:36 colomon VMArray representation does not implement at_pos_boxed
18:36 colomon .....
18:36 colomon looks like an endless loop of that error message
18:37 colomon typo on my part, but weird error!
18:38 colomon Fixed version works, and calls numeric correctly, but...
18:38 colomon > A.new == 0
18:38 colomon Called Numeric
18:38 colomon False
18:38 colomon > A.new == 14
18:38 colomon Called Numeric
18:38 colomon True
18:38 colomon > A.new == $x
18:38 colomon VMArray representation does not implement at_pos_boxed
18:38 colomon VMArray representation does not implement at_pos_boxed
18:38 colomon ....
18:38 colomon so this is quite bizarre
18:38 colomon ah, don't think I'd defined $x that time.
18:40 colomon pmichaud: what's weird with this is works for many, many cases.  It's only the specific case of $x == $x which triggers the Method 'Bridge' not found message.
18:40 colomon *it works
18:43 tomyan joined #perl6
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18:44 * colomon is guessing the rakudo debugger doesn't work in JVM yet?
18:47 colomon > "0" == "0"
18:47 colomon True
18:47 colomon > my $x = "0"; $x == $x
18:47 colomon Method 'Bridge' not found
18:51 colomon oh, the debugger doesn't step through core anyway, does it?  Hmm.
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19:11 sorear good * #perl6
19:11 sorear pmichaud: !!!
19:12 masak sorear! \o/
19:13 tomyan joined #perl6
19:14 sorear pmichaud: hi
19:15 jercos joined #perl6
19:16 diakopter joined #perl6
19:17 sorear diakopter: got your mail
19:17 sorear FYI
19:18 colomon o/
19:19 diakopter sorear: ok thx :)
19:20 sorear pmichaud: i would like to talk to you (or another rakudo org admin) about CLA procedures
19:20 sorear to confirm that http://www.perlfoundation.org/contributor_license_agreement is correct, and get an elaboration on the email procedure you mentioned
19:21 minibota left #perl6
19:21 ixxvil joined #perl6
19:21 pmichaud sorear: it's correct.
19:21 ixxvil so did you guys get a logo for that compiler?
19:21 ixxvil or whatever it was called then
19:21 ixxvil it had a funny name to it that began with an s
19:22 sorear there's http://rakudoperl.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/rakudo-1001.png
19:22 pmichaud sorear: better is probably http://www.perlfoundation.org/attachment/legal/cla3.pdf
19:22 sorear oh, that's a logo for a compiler that starts with an s
19:22 sorear oh, that's a logo for a compiler that starts with an r
19:22 TimToady do we have one that starts with s?
19:22 sorear sprixel I guess
19:23 diakopter --
19:23 ixxvil na not rakudo
19:23 TimToady ixxvil: why do you want to know?
19:23 ixxvil well if they still need one
19:24 * diakopter tries to make your nick to a roman numeral
19:24 TimToady there are very few conserved needs here :)
19:24 sorear ixxvil: i'm not sure who they is... I can't think of a proper p6 compiler whose name starts with an s
19:24 TimToady either the needs get filled, or they go away...
19:25 diakopter sorear: if you haven't deleted it, would you mind forwarding the mail to me?
19:25 sorear perlito, mildew, pugs, niecza, rakudo
19:25 ixxvil niecza
19:25 ixxvil :D
19:25 pmichaud http://perl6.org/compilers/  # list of compilers
19:25 benabik 'n' neq 's'
19:25 sorear done
19:25 ixxvil i remember TimToady talking about kerning and things then
19:25 ixxvil but i left half way through, life got busy
19:25 pmichaud maybe it's really "sniecza"  :-P
19:26 ixxvil so did niecza get one?
19:26 pmichaud or it could be   ('n' | 's') ~ "iecza"
19:26 sorear maybe ixxvil is thinking of "sorear" :D
19:26 pmichaud I'm afk for a bit
19:26 ixxvil yeha i think the head dev for that was some guy who had a nick that began with an s
19:26 * TimToady has no opinion on compiler logos, only language logos :)
19:26 sorear pmichaud: nothing on email procedures
19:27 benabik pmichaud: 'sniecza' makes me want to reply gesundheit
19:27 ixxvil you need help with a language logo?
19:27 pmichaud oh, I don't know that there are official "email" procedures.
19:27 sorear ixxvil: gee, I wonder who that could be
19:27 ixxvil i thought perl6 was all good to go
19:27 TimToady ixxvil: no, not at the moment :)
19:27 sorear :)
19:27 * pmichaud checks.
19:27 ixxvil alright!
19:28 sorear pmichaud: ah, I was wondering because I thought you mentioned them but I didn't see anything about it on the site
19:28 ixxvil TimToady: you know i gotta thank you though
19:28 pmichaud we've accepted email copies as provisional until the originals arrive in the mail.
19:28 pmichaud but we still end up needing originals.
19:28 TimToady ixxvil: no you don't, but I don't mind if you do :)
19:28 sorear ok
19:28 ixxvil i dont know if you helped then or not but the important of kerning and things like that play a ajor role in the work i do now
19:28 pmichaud as I said a few days ago, I'll gladly send you a CLA and pre-addressed-stamped envelope :)
19:28 ixxvil i didnt see it then but 2 yrs since yeah
19:28 ixxvil importance
19:28 sorear how long does the mail generally take?
19:28 pmichaud well, 3-5 days.
19:29 sorear pmichaud: it'll go faster if I use my own printer and stamps
19:29 sorear but thanks for the offer
19:29 colomon sorear++
19:29 pmichaud but we'll grant the commitbit as soon as you let us know "it's mailed"  :)
19:29 ixxvil i remember vaguely you mentionig about my kerning being off and i kinda ignored your comment then
19:29 ixxvil :D
19:29 TimToady ixxvil: well, I learned about kerning from my wife--it's one of those things you start to notice, and then can't ever quit
19:29 ixxvil right
19:29 ixxvil thats all i do now
19:29 sorear pmichaud: ok, I have everything I need from you right now
19:29 ixxvil lettering and tons of type
19:29 sorear keming, eh
19:29 ixxvil keming is part of it
19:30 ixxvil os part of the game!
19:30 TimToady the slides at YAPC::NA talked about Tcl at one point, and that looked pretty awful between the T and the c
19:30 moritz we also trow around lots of types in Perl 6 :-)
19:30 pmichaud sorear: excellent.  just let me know when it's mailed and we'll grant the commitbit :)
19:30 ixxvil what kinda type
19:30 ixxvil i dont do type per se as in i dont design typefaces
19:30 ixxvil i could if its paid though otherwise no way hose
19:31 ixxvil oh well anyways good times
19:31 panchiniak joined #perl6
19:32 moritz ixxvil: types, as programmers use them
19:32 moritz r: say Int.^mro
19:32 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«(Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
19:32 ixxvil you mean mono?
19:33 ixxvil monospace is just ugly heh but you guys need it more than i do
19:33 moritz no, as in "data type"
19:33 * sorear always thought it was José
19:33 ixxvil moritz: sorry, out of my jurisdiction
19:34 TimToady that's the gardener's juristiction, hose A and hose B
19:34 TimToady *diction
19:35 ixxvil what does your wife do again?
19:35 ixxvil grapic design?
19:35 REPLeffect joined #perl6
19:35 TimToady ixxvil: she's a calligrapher
19:35 ixxvil REALLY?
19:35 TimToady among other things
19:35 ixxvil can i see some work
19:35 TimToady well, she hasn't done much since college...
19:35 ixxvil thats all i do now
19:35 [Coke] TimToady: so your main problem with tcl is the kerning? ;)
19:35 ixxvil but i dont use traditional methods besides on paper
19:36 ixxvil there was an article recently about the calligraphers payscale at the whitehouse
19:36 tomyan joined #perl6
19:36 ixxvil it's something like 90k
19:36 ixxvil but pretty darn good work
19:37 TimToady [Coke]: it may have been something else beginning with T, so it's really the T's fault, not Tcl's
19:38 census joined #perl6
19:38 ixxvil where is this tcl you're talking about though? on their webpage?
19:38 panchiniak left #perl6
19:38 ixxvil Tcl Developer Xchange.... dat X
19:40 ixxvil inconsistency in the weight.. that prolly needs to go but i dont think they care
19:40 tgt joined #perl6
19:46 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 7eb872f | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
19:46 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:46 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/7eb872f485
19:46 [Coke] anyone want to update the modules for star for the next release?
19:47 panchiniak joined #perl6
19:47 ixxvil alright folks nice talking to you
19:47 ixxvil later!
19:47 ixxvil left #perl6
19:48 masak oh, right. it's rakudo release week.
19:49 masak heh, I wonder what sucker signed up for this monthly release... :P
19:52 labster isn't there some sort of online training in the near future, too?
19:56 masak labster: in two days, yes :>
19:57 masak looking forward to it!
20:00 lue hello world o/
20:00 sorear o/
20:00 colomon oh, so it's the day before release day.  no worries, then.
20:00 * sorear needs to hurry up and break rakudo
20:01 colomon sorear: a grand ambition.
20:03 sorear once I have my commitbit I can join the "broke the build on release day" club
20:04 ssutch joined #perl6
20:05 labster All I ever managed to break was Parrot's GC.
20:06 TimToady All I ever managed to do was break the language...
20:06 ssutch HA
20:08 labster we are the king's horses and king's men in charge of putting camelia back together again.
20:08 timotimo wait a second
20:08 TimToady okay, I waited a second
20:08 labster I'm not sure who the king actually is.  Maybe King Kong.
20:09 timotimo aaw, masak, i won't be able to make it to the workshop :(
20:09 masak timotimo: :(
20:09 TimToady The question is, who's to be master, that's all.
20:09 masak timotimo: please update https://github.com/perl6/mu/wiki/perl6-workshop-june-2013
20:10 timotimo already done
20:10 masak TimToady: or, if you're in the Rakudo repository, who's to be nom, that's all.
20:10 masak timotimo++
20:10 sorear andreas koenig?
20:10 masak Simba?
20:13 TimToady http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King
20:14 labster added myself to the new masakism list
20:14 masak labster++ \o/
20:14 masak we're a smaller group this time around, but that means you'll each be given more attention :)
20:16 labster I know, I might even be able to ask detailed questions this time
20:17 masak looking forward to that :)
20:17 tgt joined #perl6
20:19 labster I think I have insufficient hubris as a programmer.  Does anyone care if we return path objects from mkdir(), rename(), symlink(), etc. instead of True?  (Still Failure on failure, obviously.)
20:23 TimToady use case?
20:23 labster "t/spec".path.mkdir.chdir
20:24 TimToady I guess that one is apparent to the reader, but symlink.chdir wouldn't be so clear
20:24 labster perhaps not on those.
20:25 labster I think rename returning the new file would be clear enough.
20:30 labster Symlink takes an argument, but I haven't really determined the exact interface there.  Should it always take its argument as the destination path, or require something like .symlink(from=>"foo") or .symlink(to=>"bar")
20:32 ssutch .symlink(from=>"foo") or .symlink(to=>"bar") both seem to make sense to me
20:33 sorear .rmdir.chdir
20:33 TimToady \o/
20:33 TimToady symlink is not done so often that it needs multiple ways to do it
20:34 ssutch .rm.chdir would just fail, no such path or whatever
20:34 TimToady I'd stick with the POSIXy interface
20:34 labster just the function then, rather than a class interface.
20:35 lue .oO(does &symlink fail on Windows/other systems without the magic of symlinks?)
20:35 TimToady I'd add it to the class only if we can guarantee some greater portability that way
20:36 TimToady otherwise it falls into the category of a foolish consistency
20:37 masak +1 on POSIXy interface.
20:37 benabik NTFS has symlinks, IIRC
20:37 masak I'd much rather see cute method chaining experiments in user-provided modules.
20:39 sorear now that masak has said it, I agree
20:39 TimToady chained mutators are not very P6ish
20:41 TimToady P6 likes to keep its mutators at the statement level most of the time
20:41 ssutch joined #perl6
20:41 TimToady expressions are more for FP stuff
20:42 * TimToady thinks side effects should look like assembly language :)
20:43 labster Well, that sounds good.  I already have a module where I put all of my crazy ideas.
20:43 TimToady assignment being the notable exception...
20:43 tomyan joined #perl6
20:44 TimToady of course, someone coming from other backgrounds such as Ruby may have different expectations...
20:44 colomon TimToady: which is exactly why .match should not set $/
20:48 * TimToady wishes .subst had a way of injecting $/ into a closure...
20:48 * masak too
20:48 TimToady that's really the only reason I'd hold out for setting $/ on the method forms
20:50 sorear > 1 cmp 10
20:51 sorear Increase
20:51 sorear \o/
20:51 colomon \o/
20:51 xilo1 joined #perl6
20:51 * colomon is okay with requiring subst users to make it -> $/ { ... }
20:52 sorear still no [1..10]
20:52 dalek nqp: 38a8b97 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
20:52 dalek nqp: Add return value coercion support for jvm
20:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/38a8b97d79
20:52 dalek nqp: 6ba8f35 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
20:52 dalek nqp: Add experimental nqp::backtrace for structured access to jvm backtraces
20:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6ba8f3579b
20:53 dylanwh NTFS symlinks have oddly specific limitations that make me sad
20:54 sorear o/ dylanwh
20:54 grondilu joined #perl6
20:57 tgt joined #perl6
20:57 * lizmat wonders whether TimToady has any units on his mind
20:58 sorear the java debugger likes to put commas in line numbers.    [4] E940929BF74D90FB0CDF81E1E7A217FDFBD39661.qb_3637 (src/gen/CORE.setting:3,963)  # this really freaks me out, and I can't quite put a finger on why
20:59 [Coke] why it does or why it freaks you out?
20:59 sorear why it bothers me so
20:59 dylanwh fwiw, NTFS supports both hardlinks and symlinks. The limitations are that symlinks have a short path, and only administrator-types can make them.
20:59 * lizmat suspects a European background in sorear
21:00 lizmat in Europe, the comma is a decimal point
21:00 dylanwh and you can only have 2**10 links to the same inode.
21:00 grondilu commas are the standard 10^3 separator in English, aren't they?
21:01 lizmat well, before we had computers and the American world view about decimal *points* forced upon us :-)
21:01 betterworld joined #perl6
21:01 sorear .oO( line 3_963 )
21:01 Juerd joined #perl6
21:02 grondilu maybe you want to install a "perl locale" or something :-)
21:03 sorear multi postfix:<-->(Num:D \a is rw) { # New failure mode:  This is being called on an argument of type Int.  What?  Naturally, nqp::unbox_n is not happy.
21:05 lizmat pmichaud: wrt extra parameter to classify|categorize: that's now moot with these methods being callable on hashes
21:05 btyler joined #perl6
21:07 snearch joined #perl6
21:14 pmichaud lizmat: (moot)  excellent, I was hoping that would be the answer.  :-)
21:14 pmichaud I like the methods-callable-on-hashes approach.
21:14 pmichaud that feels much more natural than the other ones.
21:15 pmurias joined #perl6
21:15 pmichaud (afk again)
21:23 dalek roast: b9eaf06 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/categorize.t:
21:23 dalek roast: Some more categorize test refinements
21:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b9eaf06c76
21:35 dalek specs: 70bad12 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
21:35 dalek specs: Fix typo
21:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/70bad127c4
21:42 dalek roast: 95ba4f6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/classify.t:
21:42 dalek roast: Added some more tests when using typed hashes
21:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/95ba4f6cfa
21:45 TimToady nr: say '▁' ... '█'
21:46 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
21:46 camelia ..niecza v24-77-g2b14288: OUTPUT«▁ ▂ ▃ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █␤»
21:46 TimToady rakudobug
21:46 * lizmat submits rakudobug
21:47 preflex joined #perl6
21:47 dalek roast: 1b82ada | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/classify.t:
21:47 dalek roast: Some additional tests for classify, like categorize
21:47 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1b82ada84e
21:48 masak lizmat++
21:52 tomyan joined #perl6
21:57 * lizmat is going to test the state of her own bed&
22:01 pochi joined #perl6
22:05 sorear ranges work in the repl, because the repl is installing an exception handler that appears to resume everything.
22:09 bluescreen100 joined #perl6
22:18 benabik joined #perl6
22:20 sorear oh, it's not a MMD problem, rakudo-jvm just doesn't like nqp::sub_n(foo, 1) very much
22:22 sorear rakudo: nqp::unbox_n(1)
22:22 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native number␤  in block  at /tmp/Njc1WlNvN9:1␤␤»
22:22 sorear rakudo: nqp::sub_n(1,2)
22:22 camelia rakudo b2072f:  ( no output )
22:23 timotimo r: '▁'.succ.say
22:23 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«▁␤»
22:23 timotimo r: '▁'.succ.succ.say
22:23 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«▁␤»
22:23 timotimo r: '▁'.succ.succ.succ.say
22:23 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«▁␤»
22:24 timotimo ah, that's how it works
22:25 sorear should that work?  should I replace 1 with 1e0 in the setting, modify nqp::sub_n to coerce, or something else?
22:25 sorear could also perhaps use Want on num literals
22:25 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sparkline_in_unicode is the page in question, btw
22:25 TimToady timotimo: it doesn't work by calling .succ on that
22:26 timotimo the range reify method uses .succ
22:26 timotimo succ looks into RANGEPOS to find out if it's something it should be counting up. if it isn't, it no-ops.
22:27 timotimo should i make it to work just like niecza if it's not part of a carry-able range thingie?
22:27 TimToady see S03:2024
22:28 TimToady it's not the range operation, it's the sequence operator, to begin with
22:28 timotimo oh!
22:28 timotimo derp :)
22:28 TimToady and the sequence operator treats single codepoints specially
22:28 TimToady (or it's supposed to...)
22:37 sorear > [1..10]
22:37 sorear 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
22:37 sorear >
22:37 shinobicl left #perl6
22:42 * TimToady -> bed &
22:43 sorear rakudo: nqp::print(nqp::getstderr(), "moo")
22:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling block  (source text: "nqp::print(nqp::getstderr(), \"moo\")"): Error while compiling op call: Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op print: Operation 'print' requires 1 operands, but got 2␤»
22:43 sorear rakudo: nqp::printfh(nqp::getstderr(), "moo")
22:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«moo»
22:57 skids joined #perl6
22:59 dalek nqp: aefda07 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
22:59 dalek nqp: Allow nqp::join to work on native str arrays on JVM
22:59 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/aefda07e8b
23:01 sorear backtrace printer is now working.  ish./
23:01 sorear working well enough to not eat the error messages
23:01 sorear although it turns everything into a ===SORRY!=== and eats the backtraces
23:01 abnorman joined #perl6
23:02 masak sounds wonderful :P
23:02 benabik ===SORRY!===  I made you an error, but I ate it.
23:04 sorear sorear/rakudo/nom if anyone is interested.  will have CLA in the mail in time for tomorrow's pickup
23:07 * timotimo suffers from a very typical computer science and programming ailment:
23:07 timotimo too many layers of indigestion :(
23:07 masak lasagna for dinner, eh? :)
23:10 timotimo that would have been lovely; except perhaps for the fact that it was between 30 and 35 degC out today
23:10 timotimo i think i shouldn't have eaten mostly ice creat today
23:17 timotimo is anybody working on the "one codepoint sequence" thing right now or should i perhaps give it an actual shot?
23:25 timotimo oh, there's actually succ-with-carry semantics for multi-character strings
23:30 masak yes, but less than there used to be, IIRC.
23:30 timotimo oh, i think i have misread actually
23:31 konundra joined #perl6
23:31 timotimo is my new & revised reading that it'll only ever happen if both end points are single-codepoint-strings correct?
23:35 masak rn: say "w".."ba"
23:35 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-77-g2b14288: OUTPUT«"w".."ba"␤»
23:35 masak rn: .say for "w".."ba"
23:35 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-77-g2b14288:  ( no output )
23:36 masak maybe :)
23:36 masak rn: .say for "w".."ac"
23:36 camelia rakudo b2072f, niecza v24-77-g2b14288:  ( no output )
23:37 timotimo don't you want ... instead
23:37 timotimo ?
23:37 timotimo rn: say "w"..."ba"
23:37 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Decrement out of range␤  in method Str at src/gen/CORE.setting:10160␤  in method Str at src/gen/CORE.setting:876␤  in method Stringy at src/gen/CORE.setting:885␤  in sub infix:<eq> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1288␤  in sub infix:<eq> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1286␤  in m…
23:37 camelia ..niecza v24-77-g2b14288: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Magical string decrement underflowed␤  at <unknown> line 0 (KERNEL Str.pred @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3340 (ANON @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3374 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/…
23:37 timotimo hehe.
23:37 jlaire joined #perl6
23:41 pmichaud .u ▁
23:41 yoleaux U+2581 LOWER ONE EIGHTH BLOCK [So] (▁)
23:41 pmichaud .u █
23:41 yoleaux U+2588 FULL BLOCK [So] (█)
23:42 lue r: say NaN.Int; say Inf.Int;
23:42 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«0␤Cannot coerce Inf to an Int␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10161␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11047␤  in block  at /tmp/l04qPlvnZA:1␤␤»
23:42 pmichaud say '▁' cmp '█'
23:42 pmichaud r: say '▁' cmp '█'
23:42 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«Increase␤»
23:42 pmichaud r: say '▁' .. '█'
23:42 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«"▁".."█"␤»
23:42 pmichaud r: say ('▁' .. '█').list
23:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
23:43 pmichaud r: say ('▁' ... *).[^5]
23:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«▁ ▁ ▁ ▁ ▁␤»
23:43 pmichaud r: say ('▁'.succ)
23:43 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«▁␤»
23:44 pmichaud r: say ('▁'.succ).ord
23:44 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«9601␤»
23:44 pmichaud r: say '▁'.ord
23:44 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«9601␤»
23:44 pmichaud say "\x65".succ
23:44 pmichaud r: say "\x65".succ
23:44 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«f␤»
23:45 pmichaud r: say "\x2581".succ
23:45 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«▁␤»
23:45 pmichaud weird.
23:45 rjbs r: say (1 cmp 2).^WHAT
23:45 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Cannot use .^ on a non-identifier method callâ�¤at /tmp/z_j6wJyruS:1â�¤------> [32msay (1 cmp 2).^WHAT[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argumentsâ�¤Â»
23:45 rjbs r: say (1 cmp 2).WHAT
23:45 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«(Order)␤»
23:45 rjbs Huh.  I had not yet seen that type.
23:45 pmichaud Order is an enumeration.... Increase, Same, Decrease
23:45 rjbs Cool.
23:45 rjbs <pmichaud> Yes, Order is Cool.
23:46 pmichaud r: say Order ~~ Cool
23:46 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«True␤»
23:46 rjbs :)
23:47 rjbs Yow, my rakudo will no longer run.
23:47 * rjbs builds a new one!
23:47 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:50 lue I'm suddenly <stunned perplexed>.all by the fact that !Num.ACCEPTS(Int) . That feels wrong (coming from the point of view of math).
23:50 * lue guesses someone will show him why that's The Right Way™ for programming
23:51 sorear lue: Num reflects an implementation, not a value set
23:52 sorear when I say my Num $x I'm saying "$x points to a number stored as floating-point"
23:52 pmichaud r: say so Numeric.ACCEPTS(Int)
23:52 camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«True␤»
23:52 sorear it can't point to a number stored as integer, or decimal string
23:53 sorear more practically, the multidispatch optimizer needs a representation guarantee in order to avoid coercion checks
23:53 timotimo i won't finish the sequence thing today.
23:53 lue OK. I think I conflated Num and Numeric then.

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