Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-06-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 jnthn r: say 13 % -4
00:06 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«-3␤»
00:06 jnthn JVM says "wtf is a negative modulus" :P
00:06 timotimo hehe.
00:07 masak a negative modulus has two major interpretations.
00:07 masak depending on what invariant you want to preserve.
00:07 diakopter r: say 13 % i
00:07 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Real'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: Mu *%_)␤  in method Real at src/gen/CORE.setting:869␤  in sub infix:<%> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3193␤  in sub infix:<%> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3190␤  in sub infix:<%> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3193␤  in …
00:07 timotimo indeed. annoys the hell out of me :(
00:08 masak see table at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulo_operation#​Remainder_calculation_for_the_modulo_operation
00:11 timotimo oh, i think i know what the stray infix:<,> is for
00:11 timotimo ... nope :/
00:20 sorear jnthn: if I move to add module-like features that require Java code to support (like Java interop and/or a threading API), should the support code go in nqp or rakudo, or perhaps should I try to add a pir::loadlib-like functionality so such things can be done entirely outside?
00:20 sorear that was a bad question
00:21 diakopter also, scary :D
00:28 sorear actually I think I can write out-of-core code which uses map_classlib_hll_op and QAST to bootstrap its own code
00:28 sorear but it'll be crazy and it'll probably play really badly with serialization
00:28 sorear actually, that makes me wonder...
00:29 sorear if I'm understanding the design correctly, Perl6/Ops.nqp, when compiled, creates a repossession for the QAST opcodes hash
00:29 sorear is it possible to load two HLLs in the same NQP GlobalContext?
00:29 sorear without a repossession conflict?
00:31 jnthn sorear: Hm, that's probably an issue
00:31 jnthn sorear: Suspect the support coe for Java interop maybe belongs in NQP
00:34 raiph iirc some perl person promulgated a principle that you be accepting of dodgy/mean input (what folk say) but precise/nice in your output (what you say). anyone know what i'm talking about?
00:35 timotimo that's just basic IEEE principles
00:36 timotimo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle
00:36 sorear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Postel#Postel.27s_Law
00:36 timotimo same link
00:36 dalek nqp: 231d1f2 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
00:36 dalek nqp: Try getting bigint negative modulo working.
00:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/231d1f2cfc
00:36 timotimo well, okay, one hop.
00:36 masak you should be more conservative in emitting links! :P
00:37 jnthn We've now gone from crashing on test 3 of arith.t to failing just 5 of the 143 tests in there :)
00:37 timotimo \o/
00:37 timotimo this is so awesome news
00:37 sorear \o/
00:37 ssutch nice
00:38 raiph timotimo: thanks. that's the underlying principle. (i thought some perl person applied postel's law to human communication)
00:38 sorear jnthn: java interop in nqp, not as a perl6module?
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00:38 timotimo :)
00:38 jnthn sorear: I think the lower level supporting stuff belongs in the nqp repo. Rakudo could do with some sugar layer for it too.
00:39 raiph jnthn++ sorear++ #perl6++ # hard to express how great it feels to see this
00:40 sorear but I haven't even done anything! :D
00:41 perigrin sorear++ # not getting in the way!
00:47 timotimo make returns from the routine, right?
00:49 jnthn no
00:49 timotimo good to know
00:53 timotimo Error while compiling op eqaddr: No registered operation handler for 'eqaddr'
00:54 timotimo can no longer compile on parrot
00:54 timotimo needs an #if jvm?
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00:54 jnthn huh...
00:54 timotimo oh
00:54 timotimo may need newer nqp?
00:54 jnthn Bit surprised that nqp::op ain't mapped on Parrot
00:54 jnthn that or an entry in Operations.nqp
00:55 xilo_ joined #perl6
00:57 timotimo seems that helped
00:58 * timotimo makes a jakudo spectest just for funsies
00:58 timotimo interested in the results?
00:58 perigrin is it interesting?
00:59 sorear uh
00:59 sorear what's =:= mapped to?
01:00 jnthn sorear: after building lateest Rakudo and NQP, I'm getting:
01:00 jnthn java.nio.file.NoSuchFileException: CORE.setting.jar
01:00 jnthn oh, maybe I should re-Configure?
01:01 sorear yeah
01:01 sorear reconfigure both
01:01 jnthn ah, yeah
01:01 jnthn Did NQP, forgot Rakudo
01:01 jnthn huh...apparently forgot NQP too
01:01 jnthn Unknown compilation target 'jar'
01:01 sorear rakudo uses =:= and eqaddr heavily inside
01:02 jnthn oh, forgot prefix...
01:02 sorear maybe install didn't work?
01:02 sorear aha
01:02 * jnthn tries agian
01:02 jnthn though will have to head for the train soonish I guess
01:02 jnthn oh no, another 15-20 mins before that
01:02 timotimo oh? t/spec/S04-statements/loop.t ................................. 1/15 Error in socket connection:org.perl6.nqp.runtime.UnwindException
01:03 timotimo t/spec/S05-metachars/newline.rakudo.jvm ...................... Failed 2/15 subtests  (2 TODO tests unexpectedly succeeded)
01:04 sorear the error is a ittle misleading there
01:04 sorear nqp catches almost all exceptions and funnels them into the p6exception mechanism
01:04 timotimo mhm
01:04 sorear but sometimes it fails and then the harness sees the uncaught exception and blames it on a socket
01:05 timotimo good point
01:07 timotimo the IO tests don't work because of the eval servers
01:07 timotimo ?
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01:08 jnthn sorear: Nope, still gives me the same thing... :(
01:09 jnthn wait, what...
01:09 ugexe joined #perl6
01:09 jnthn oh no, it's copying to the right place
01:11 jnthn hmm
01:12 jnthn sorear: Turns out that if you have .class files leftover in the install directory then they take precedence
01:13 jnthn sorear: deleted those and now it seems happier
01:13 timotimo jnthn: https://gist.github.com/timo/8​a50eb8a3360e32c4cb4/revisions
01:16 timotimo good work, jnthn++ and sorear++
01:17 masak 'night, #perl6
01:18 sorear beautiful
01:18 timotimo masak: 'night
01:18 sorear night masak
01:18 timotimo (you may also appreciate the last link i posted before bed)
01:19 dalek rakudo/nom: 30c82c7 | jonathan++ | src/core/Num.pm:
01:19 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix Num.new
01:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30c82c76c3
01:20 jnthn timotimo++ # thanks!
01:20 jnthn home, sleep &
01:21 timotimo home, sleep home.
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01:24 timotimo FROGGS: https://gist.github.com/timo/8​a50eb8a3360e32c4cb4/revisions - lookie lookie what sorear and jnthn did today :)
01:33 diakopter whoa
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01:35 sorear colomon: https://gist.github.com/timo/8​a50eb8a3360e32c4cb4/revisions
01:36 colomon sorear: what's the scope of those changes?  is that just today?
01:36 timotimo colomon: yes, the previous revision was 1 day ago
01:36 colomon \o/
01:38 colomon -Files=713, Tests=14954, 712 wallclock secs ( 3.30 usr  0.67 sys + 14.60 cusr  2.79 csys = 21.36 CPU)
01:38 colomon +Files=713, Tests=17904, 680 wallclock secs ( 3.32 usr  0.73 sys + 14.46 cusr  3.38 csys = 21.89 CPU)
01:38 colomon is that the passed test?
01:38 colomon *tests
01:38 timotimo i don't think anybody knows, i don't
01:38 colomon I mean, we have 3000 additional passing tests, and it ran faster, if anything?
01:39 sorear colomon: jnthn++ has been busy today.
01:39 colomon or just 3000 more tests run.
01:39 colomon that's just insane, either way.
01:39 timotimo :D
01:40 sorear we currently have failures in 270 files.
01:41 timotimo out of how many?
01:41 sorear 713
01:41 sorear r: say 270 / 713
01:41 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«0.378682␤»
01:41 sorear r: say 1 - 270 / 713
01:41 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«0.621318␤»
01:41 sorear 62% of the files in spectest.data pass completely
01:41 timotimo OH YEAH
01:42 * colomon is really struggling not to make rash statements about how fast this is going
01:42 timotimo S curve, don't forget
01:43 timotimo i was just trying to run a few of my rosettacode examples. one fails 1. because MAIN doesn't work yet (CodeRef NYI in JVM) and then 2. because "method encoding not found" in slurp
01:43 sorear r: say 1 - 339 / 713
01:43 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«0.524544␤»
01:44 sorear previous run in timo's repository was 52% passing
01:44 sorear colomon: "at this rate, we'll be passing 400% of roast by august"
01:44 colomon timotimo: I have about as much experience as anyone getting p6 implementations to pass spectests.  And in my experience, getting 16,000 tests working this fast is *really* impressive.
01:45 timotimo another one has a Null Pointer Exception in some thingie
01:46 colomon and mind you, you say S curve, but if anything, it generally gets easier to get tests passing as you go, right until you get down to the last few tough ones.
01:47 timotimo right
01:47 timotimo still S formed :)
01:47 timotimo somewhat
01:48 timotimo but yeah, i'm pretty amazed, too
01:48 colomon also, at least in previous attempts, the further you go, the more accessible the failures become.  Like the earliest ones took jnthn or pmichaud or sorear to fix, but later on it's stuff that the rest of us can tackle pretty easily.
01:48 timotimo except all the things i've been using are still among those 40 odd percent ;)
01:50 colomon timotimo: that's always the way it goes, until you start fixing the things yourself.  ;)
01:51 timotimo that's way over my head
01:59 dalek niecza: 6672fa2 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
01:59 dalek niecza: Rewrite infix:<⊍> and infix:<⊎> to take parcels.
01:59 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6672fa277d
02:04 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
02:07 * timotimo fails to parse something with grammars on jvm
02:08 timotimo oh, something entirely different was the matter!
02:09 timotimo er, it should have said "CallFrame NYI on JVM" above.
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02:10 timotimo yeah, my grammar doesn't parse the text. sad :(
02:13 timotimo yeah, i use a lot of features from the S05 where things fail
02:15 timotimo i stumbled upon those, too, interestingly: t/spec/S06-multi/positional-vs-named.rakudo.jvm .............. Failed 21/27 subtests
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03:20 raiph Divided we fall http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/co​mments/1gu4kr/divided_we_fall/
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04:08 labster raiph++ is doing the job that I should be doing.
04:12 benabik upboats for raiph
04:14 benabik raiph++, even
04:15 JimmyZ raiph hoelzro: i know of a uber hacker who will work on moarvm but not jvm or parrot.
04:15 * JimmyZ wonders whom
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04:48 ssutch raiph ++
04:49 woosley1 joined #perl6
04:51 raiph heh. so i post about division. 5 votes up. 5 down. :)
04:52 raiph (i think it's just u guys being friendly vs others thinking it's too weird/long/complex)
04:52 raiph (but still amuses me)
04:52 ssutch brb dinner
04:52 ssutch also reddit games it, every upvote gets ~.5 downvotes
04:52 ssutch ok dinner for realz
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05:49 moritz \o
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06:06 popl sorry for the joining/rejoining; seems my tmux has an issue with UTF-8.
06:06 benabik O.o
06:07 popl benabik: I know!
06:07 benabik tmux is usually so good
06:07 diakopter »ö
06:07 diakopter ö«
06:07 diakopter ö
06:07 popl I'm just in rxvt-unicode now.
06:08 popl diakopter: thanks for trying to mess with me. :P
06:08 diakopter »«
06:08 benabik >.<
06:08 JimmyZ chatzilla always kills my firefox with black screen :(
06:09 popl I stopped using Chatzilla soon after it came out in like 2000 or something.
06:10 popl diakopter: seriously though, I'm not serious. :)
06:10 popl I'd like to troubleshoot the issue but it's not the forum to do so.
06:11 popl There are significantly less people in here than in #perl. do the Perl6 people hang out on MagNET?
06:11 popl *do more of the
06:12 ssutch seems like a lot are here
06:12 ssutch [of the population]
06:12 popl ssutch: So the community is small?
06:12 diakopter popl: _all_ the p6 community is here
06:12 popl Well "small" is relative, sure. But I hope you understand my meaning.
06:12 ssutch im new, but doesn't seem to be gigantic
06:12 diakopter 0.001% of the p5 community is on irc
06:13 popl I have been on the IRC bits for years now and I am afraid to delve into the mailing lists. :)
06:14 popl diakopter: Is that a hard statistic?
06:15 diakopter of course not.. not more than a couple degrees of freedom or decimal orders of magnitude off
06:15 popl I suppose it's impossible to say.
06:19 diakopter .ask lizmat no more irc?
06:19 yoleaux diakopter: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
06:20 popl Thanksf or the dialogue.
06:20 ssutch the commits to rakudo are impressive and encouraging
06:20 diakopter ssutch: one of these days it'll be on MoarVM too..
06:20 cooper joined #perl6
06:21 ssutch very cool, hopefully i can contribute
06:21 diakopter ssutch: you can now :P
06:21 popl MoarVM is an interesting name.
06:21 ssutch diakopter: doing what i can, still learning the ropes (there are a lot of ropes)
06:21 benabik We didn't have enough VMs, so we made one moar.
06:21 diakopter ssutch: you're way past me on those dimensions
06:22 diakopter (not saying much tho)
06:22 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
06:22 * benabik didn't know anybody had implemented ropes yet. ;-)
06:22 diakopter gar
06:22 ssutch pffah
06:22 * benabik should probably not be talking in public at this hour.
06:22 diakopter my strands are better tho, afaict
06:23 diakopter should probably document them or something
06:24 ssutch i got up to get a beer, forgot, and came back to my computer
06:25 diakopter I should do that
06:25 popl forget to get a beer?
06:25 * ssutch might as well write another test case then get a beer
06:25 diakopter I need the exercise
06:25 diakopter ssutch: srsly tho, you write C?
06:25 diakopter wait, I know this
06:25 ssutch yeah
06:26 diakopter ssutch: we're in #moarvm :D
06:27 diakopter (writing a new Perl VM)
06:27 diakopter (slowly the past few weeks)
06:27 diakopter (well, slowly the past 5 months for me)
06:27 ssutch im aware of the vm, but not aware of the irc channel ;)
06:27 diakopter hm.
06:28 diakopter I probably should at least clone the MoarVM repo for the first time.
06:28 diakopter .. that would probably require learning some git.
06:28 diakopter I'm so backwards.
06:28 sorear is C really that hard?
06:28 benabik diakopter: How have you been working on it without a clone?
06:29 diakopter sorear: hard?
06:29 diakopter benabik: well there was a private repo
06:29 diakopter that I'm still using, stupidly
06:29 sorear and where did https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel come from if you can't git? o_O
06:29 diakopter :)
06:30 ssutch svn-git
06:30 benabik diakopter: You can add the remote without cloning anew.  (Or you can just clone if you need a new copy anyway.)
06:30 diakopter Git Extensions is my fav
06:30 sorear diakopter: dunno, people often act like "oh, this is much easier to hack because it's not in C"
06:30 diakopter C is a billion times easier than Perl
06:31 popl I concur. It's OWTDI instead of TIMTOWTDI.
06:31 popl I have more fun writing Perl though.
06:35 popl sorear: C is intimidating.
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06:38 popl C is an archaic beast from a different time.
06:39 diakopter sorear: looking at that particular sprixel repo makes me ... giggle... among other things
06:39 potatogim joined #perl6
06:39 ssutch C is like socks. Everyone needs socks. Except for hippies who only wear sandals, or those toe shoe things. But even hippies need socks sometimes, even if they wear them in sandals.
06:40 potatogim joined #perl6
06:41 * sorear is not particularly hippieish in general but wears sandals whenever possible
06:41 JimmyZ I see moar in sprixel repo commit msg :D
06:41 sorear heya JimmyZ
06:41 ssutch sandals are comfy :)
06:41 diakopter JimmyZ: wait what?
06:42 popl I have weak ankles and therefore wear boots.
06:42 JimmyZ diakopter: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commi​t/185ba8e71540b1c399270bbcfe14af1ca7de43f1
06:42 diakopter heh.
06:42 JimmyZ sorear: good afternoon or evening
06:47 sorear good *
06:48 diakopter lue: your nick is an acronym?
07:04 ssutch lol, i really wish this showed me *where* ===SORRY!=== Could not find symbol '&ExtensionField'
07:08 sorear ssutch: pass --ll-exception to the compiler to get a usable backtrace
07:08 ssutch sorear: neato, thanks
07:08 sorear and that particular error message is probably secondary to trying to throw something
07:08 sorear jvm?
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07:09 ssutch sorear: nah, parrot
07:15 ssutch r: class Omg::Nowai { our constant $MAX of Int = 536_870_911; }; say Omg::Nowai::MAX;
07:15 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�too many named arguments: 1 passed, 0 used�at /tmp/oW17qrO13E:1�------> �»
07:16 ssutch r: class Omg::Nowai { our Int constant MAX = 536_870_911; }; say Omg::Nowai::MAX;
07:16 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«536870911␤»
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07:43 ssutch r: sub F(:$start) { say $start; }; say F(|{'start'=>1});
07:43 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«1␤True␤»
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07:44 ssutch r: sub F(:$start, :$end) { say $start, end; }; say F(|{'start'=>1});
07:44 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'end' will never work with no arguments (lines 1, 1)␤    Expected any of:␤    :($a)␤»
07:44 ssutch r: sub F(:$start, :$end) { say $start, $end; }; say F(|{'start'=>1});
07:44 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«1(Any)␤True␤»
07:47 ssutch sweet
08:04 timotimo ohai people
08:04 sorear hi timotimo
08:04 timotimo lue: thank you for the semilist mention patch
08:05 timotimo there's a commit in the specs repo with an id starting with "70bad1"
08:24 labster I blogged lol: http://blog.brentlaabs.com/2013/06/came​lia-at-age-13-perl-6-on-jvm-debuts.html
08:27 sorear labster:  By the rate things are progressing, and I'm sure it's already at a higher percent by now. # this sentence appears to contain zero or more grammatical errors
08:30 timotimo there were no commits (that i have seen) between you posting that and my update of the spectest run gist :(
08:32 labster I'm sure it's higher on jnthn or sorear's local copy then ^_^
08:33 timotimo :)
08:33 timotimo i posted it directly before jnthn went to bed, though :|
08:34 timotimo hm, so, eqaddr still doesn't seem to exist
08:34 labster sleep-coding? ...
08:34 sorear labster: I haven't actually been fixing any bugs super-recently
08:35 sorear I've been optimizing, and prototyping a java library interop system
08:35 labster you two are ruining a young man's dreams.
08:36 timotimo dir is NYI on JVM backend <- does this seem like a good candidate to start working on?
08:37 timotimo oh hey, there *were* changes in rakudo after i made the spectest!
08:37 timotimo d058373..30c82c7 - these, to be exact
08:37 timotimo should i run another spectest?
08:37 timotimo i think i shall :)
08:38 labster if you want.  my statement is still correct expressing the rate of progress we've had lately.
08:38 timotimo yeah
08:38 timotimo it'll make me feel good i hope :P
08:39 labster dir()/IO::Path.contents has problems.
08:39 sorear timotimo: that's funny, my local {nqp,rakudo}-jvm has a perfectly good nqp::eqaddr
08:39 labster there's no readdir op in parrot yet.
08:40 timotimo so what, i can just add an #if jvm block for the time being
08:41 labster sounds cool to me, then.  try to make it a lazy list.
08:41 sorear r: say nqp::eqaddr(&say,&say)
08:41 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling block  (source text: "say nqp::eqaddr(&say,&say)"): Error while compiling op call: Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op call (source text: "say nqp::eqaddr(&say,&say)"): Error while compiling op eqaddr: No regist…
08:41 sorear nqp: say(nqp::eqaddr(&say,&say))
08:41 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:42 timotimo ...huh?
08:42 timotimo weird!
08:42 sorear r: say(&say =:= &say)
08:42 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«True␤»
08:42 timotimo indeed!
08:42 timotimo the hell?
08:42 sorear timotimo: the =:= op compiles to an eqaddr.  I have no idea how one works but not the other.
08:46 timotimo er, now i compiled it successfully ?!?
08:48 timotimo oh, i replaced the =:= op with the old verison
08:50 timotimo i think properer semilist support comes before dir support.
08:53 timotimo i think create-jvm-runner is wrong; it looks for eval-client.pl in the wrong directory: is nqp/install, should be: nqp/tools/jvm/
08:54 timotimo and it seems like the makefile doesn't create a core setting jar, just a core setting class :(
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09:03 ssutch do you folks sleep?
09:03 ssutch <jeez>
09:04 ssutch is there any way to make rakudo puke w/ a traceback when it encounters something like this: use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in sub proclaim at lib/Test.pm:255
09:10 sorear ssutch: No
09:10 sorear (That was a reply to your first question)
09:11 ssutch sorear: i don't think i've ever been on IRC when you aren't
09:11 ssutch #perl6 anyway
09:12 sorear that's because I have run my irc client 24/7 with occasional interruptions for several years
09:12 tgt joined #perl6
09:12 ssutch but, i mean, active
09:12 labster 6PM-midnight PDT is the slow time for #perl6
09:13 sorear what timezone are you ssutch?
09:13 ssutch GMT-7
09:14 sorear ssutch: that explains it, that's my timezone
09:15 timotimo "give my timezone back!"
09:15 sorear labster's too.
09:16 sorear where are you latitudinally?
09:16 sorear LA?
09:16 * timotimo guesses running a new ConfigureJVM seems like a good idea
09:16 ssutch sorear: SF
09:16 labster yeah, I have a tendency to stay up to hack o'clock.
09:17 timotimo ah, cool, with my semilist changes i only fail the few clone spectests that i assume ssutch put in place
09:17 sorear ssutch: where in SF?  are you near japhb and/or TimToady and/or diakopter?
09:17 * sorear is down in SD, so far in any event
09:18 ssutch sorear: perhaps, i am in the sunset district, though've lived everywhere in SF
09:18 shachaf sorear: I hear SF is the place to be! You should come visit.
09:18 ssutch yeah, but "dat SD weather" :)
09:20 ssutch labster i liked your recent blog entry
09:20 diakopter ssutch: I'm in San Mateo; TimToady/quietfanatic are in Mountain View; japhb is moving near there soon
09:20 * labster is in Ventura
09:21 labster thanks ssutch
09:21 ssutch neato, yeah, city proper for me (job and whatnot)
09:21 * diakopter finds you on linkedin
09:22 labster our weather has been surprisingly June Gloom free.  I apparently escaped most of the low clouds at YAPCNA.
09:22 sorear diakopter: anyone else in SF in #perl6 that you can think of?
09:23 sorear labster: we've had it down here and it has been wonderful <3
09:23 diakopter agentzh lives there; he's moved on to nginx fame
09:23 sorear as obsessed as shachaf is with getting me there, I suspect he's somewhere around
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09:27 timotimo i need a highlighting plugin that will mark very red any = that should be a :=
09:28 sorear nqp?
09:29 FROGGS timotimo: the current spectest state is pretty awesome, yes :o)
09:29 FROGGS hi @all, btw
09:29 timotimo yes, nqp :)
09:34 sorear o/ FROGGS
09:35 ssutch .oO(excited for (s)printf hackathonlet with masak tomorrow)
09:35 ssutch .oO(well, today, i suppose)
09:35 timotimo how do i transfer all child nodes from one QAST node to another? apparently i cannot +$<semilist>.ast
09:35 timotimo maybe i need a @ in front?
09:36 sorear you shouldn't be doing that at all?
09:37 sorear can't you just do $qast.op('a different op') and leave the children put?
09:37 timotimo i wasn't able to make the op 'stmts' work, so i'm back to a Stmts op
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09:44 timotimo it seems i made it work, though
09:44 timotimo great, i can now accept a LoL in postcircumfix:<[ ]>
09:47 timotimo hm, i have to accept it as LoL $foo and then it's in item context. oh well.
09:48 spider-mario_ joined #perl6
09:55 FROGGS ssutch: implementing (s)sprintf more? or is it about usage?
09:56 ssutch FROGGS: (s)printf for nqp, from what i understand
09:56 FROGGS that is nice
09:56 sorear seems array classes in the JVM are rather boring
09:56 FROGGS if it will be perl 5 compatible I have a bunch of tests
09:57 sorear no fields, methods, or constructors
09:57 ssutch sorear: built in ones?
09:57 sorear I mean like [I
09:57 ssutch FROGGS, good to know, thanks
09:58 ssutch i see
10:01 FROGGS sorear: about my huge filesize issue: it looks like the resulting filesize is like number of mixins * 1MB
10:02 sorear FROGGS: I think I forgot to mention that the cause of your issue is clear now
10:02 FROGGS sorear: and it looks like the mixin itself is to blame; it is not that several (old) incarnations of Perl6::Grammars stick around
10:02 FROGGS ohh
10:02 FROGGS sorear: since when?
10:02 sorear FROGGS: since you mentioned %?LANG
10:02 sorear %?LANG creates a dependency edge from the sub to the mixin
10:03 sorear which forces the entire mixin to be serialized
10:03 sorear which includes a freshly generated set of LTM automata
10:03 FROGGS right
10:03 FROGGS is there a patch in nqp or rakudo? I'm eager to see it
10:03 sorear it's not a bug, it's more ... design flaw
10:04 FROGGS yeah, I imagined something like that
10:04 sorear it'll have to be repaired by a redesign
10:04 FROGGS hmmm, so by "clear" you dont mean "fixed"... :o)
10:04 sorear nope :)
10:04 FROGGS okay, works for me
10:05 timotimo Unhandled exception: java.lang.RuntimeException: Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp' - i don't get it. i just make'd that exact file?!
10:05 sorear timotimo: do you have any loose .class files lying around?
10:05 sorear jnthn++ mentioned last night that those can confuse things
10:06 sorear I'm thinking (prejudicially since this is what I did for niecza) that it might be a good idea to throw away the automata at serialization time, since they can be reconstructed when needed from other data which is saved
10:07 * sorear briefly entertains thoughts of "use Java" based on v5.pm, javax.tools.JavaCompiler, and nqp-level interop
10:09 FROGGS sorear: that would be pretty useful I guess
10:09 FROGGS that is like Inline::Java but in cool
10:12 sorear it might be saner to have a syntactic construct that just gives you a compilation unit
10:13 sorear rather than trying to mix at the statement level
10:14 FROGGS true
10:15 FROGGS the statement level only works well if you do everything on your own
10:20 daniel-s__ joined #perl6
10:27 FROGGS uhh: Error while compiling op eqaddr: No registered operation handler for 'eqaddr'
10:28 chayin joined #perl6
10:28 FROGGS current rakudo@parrot HEAD using nqp HEAD using parrot 5.5
10:28 FROGGS bbl &
10:36 chayin joined #perl6
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10:50 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
10:52 hoelzro raiph++ # reddit post
11:08 Chillance joined #perl6
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11:25 jnthn o/
11:29 nwc10 \o
11:32 hoelzro o/
11:34 sorear o/
11:36 sorear jnthn: Do you think it's sane to to have hll-neutral JVM wrapper objects that inspect CALLER::hllConfig when deciding how to behave?
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11:41 jnthn sorear: I worry that sounds a bit like an N-N integration. I'd been thinking more that if Rakudo gets back an object that is not within the Perl 6 type system, it keeps it in a wrapper and has a meta-object that makes it look like it's at least as narrow as Any, etc. I felt the pain there when doing Grammar::Generative and referring to QAST nodes...
11:42 jnthn ...otoh, I didn't have any coffee yet today.
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11:44 sorear so you're seeing two levels of wrapping?  one wrapper puts a java.lang.Object into 6model, then another to put an arbitrary 6model object into Any (presumably in hllize)?
11:46 sorear it sounds like the outer wrapper might tend to hide subtype relationships
11:46 sorear I want to allow for exposing java classes as p6 types :)
11:46 kaare_ joined #perl6
11:48 jnthn sorear: Yeah, I'm proposing a 2-level thing there, though NQP doesn't tend to care about forcing things into its own world view so far...
11:49 sorear I suppose there's a question to ask about whether java objects are 6model objects or natives like int, num, str
11:50 sorear I understand there is some fudgy stuff already for java.math.BigInteger
11:52 jnthn We'd certainly need to hold them at a level of indirection. BigInteger allows that the Java object reference can live directly inside a P6opaque though, avoiding a level of indirection.
11:56 * sorear isn't sure what to think about the bigint boxing code
11:59 sorear do you see us having a single STable, WHAT, and HOW for all java objects, or one per Class?
11:59 sorear I was originally thinking the latter, but what you're describing seems to pull us towards the former
12:01 jnthn sorear: Having a singleton HOW doesn't imply having just one STable/WHAT
12:04 jnthn sorear: I think we need different stable/WHAT for Java types, otherwise you can't so easily talk about the types.
12:05 jnthn sorear: But unless we actually have per-type meta-object level data, there's not a need to create a disinct HOW instance for each type. Could be more prototype-ish
12:07 * sorear forgot two STables could sanely share a HOW
12:09 * sorear was also imagining a STable builder in java
12:11 sorear r: my class Foo is repr<Bar> { }
12:11 camelia rakudo 51d024:  ( no output )
12:11 jnthn STables are very low level. The only way one comes into existence (beyond the bootstrap) is nqp::newtype(...)
12:11 jnthn r: my class Foo is repr<Bar> { }; say Foo.REPR
12:11 camelia rakudo 51d024: OUTPUT«KnowHOWREPR␤»
12:11 jnthn Semi-predicate FAIL
12:11 kaare_ joined #perl6
12:12 jnthn Pretty sure rakudo JVM lacks that issue
12:13 sorear oops
12:13 jnthn yeah, "No REPR Bar"
12:14 sorear jnthn: I was imagining Java code that does the equivalent of nqp::newtype and sets up a method cache
12:14 jnthn sorear: ah, I see
12:14 jnthn sorear: That's probably reasonable.
12:15 sorear I suppose this part doesn't need to be wicked fast since 1. most programs won't be manipulating millions of types 2. dynamically constructing the adapter compunit is going to be a bit expensive itself
12:17 sorear What happens when a wrapped JVM object crosses a HLL boundary?
12:20 jnthn I guess we want it to be stripped of any existing HLL wrapper and wrapped for the target if needed. That's probably easiest conveyed by giving it an extra HLL role.
12:20 jnthn s/giving it/adding/
12:21 dalek nqp: d05299e | jnthn++ | .gitignore:
12:21 dalek nqp: Add .jar to .gitignore.
12:21 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d05299efcf
12:21 dalek nqp: ec11079 | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/ (2 files):
12:21 dalek nqp: nqp::eqaddr should be core, not NQP only.
12:21 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ec11079810
12:22 dalek rakudo/nom: 1ab4203 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
12:22 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION for nqp::eqaddr fix.
12:22 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1ab4203e7e
12:23 sorear jnthn: that means we need a foreignTransformJava key in hllConfig, and maybe declare that any object with a hllRole of java needs to support unbox_native to native_j?
12:24 sorear *waves hands*
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12:25 jnthn sorear: Hm. I'd been thinking "wrap some object from some other language" could be a fairly generic thing.
12:25 jnthn sorear: I mean, it's mostly interested in making a foreign thing feel Perl 6-y enough to be convenient.
12:27 sorear jnthn: so we're back to having 6model objects for jvm objects -but- those objects make no effort to be caller-hll-sensitive because we expect they will be wrapped by a generic ForeignObjectHOW thingus?
12:28 jnthn sorear: Yes, and NQP probably doesn't even wrap them at all.
12:28 jnthn That's how I'd expected it to do it, at least.
12:29 jnthn If you can see a looming problem with that approach, I'm happy to consider soemthing else.
12:30 sorear jnthn: sounds like making types work with ForeignHOW will be an "interesting" exercise in moppery.  i'll let you do that.
12:30 jnthn sorear: OK :)
12:31 sorear actually I guess we have three parallel type hierarchies
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12:32 sorear the actual Class type hierarchy, the lazily constructed hierarchy of jvm-wrapper type objects, and the lazily constructed hierarchy of ForeignHOW
12:46 [Coke] jnthn: ugh. my laptop went to sleep last night, stopping the test run on S14.
12:46 * moritz wonders how much '"interesting" moppery' refers to the meta object protcol, and how much to the cleaning device :-)
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12:54 jnthn [Coke]: aww
13:00 [Coke] jnthn: up to S32-num/is-prime.t ...
13:00 [Coke] this is just to test the more automated run, anyway - real run will be done once the normal run picks a version of a spec test suite to run, about 3 hours out.
13:00 * colomon wonders if is-prime will work better in Rakudo JVM than it did in Rakudo Parrot....
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 614d9e0 | jnthn++ | src/core/Bool.pm:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix null exception in infix:<?^>.
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: The Parrot version of nqp::xor returns a Parrot Undef, which we really
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: don't have a sane equivalent of on JVM so it gives a null. This handles
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: it appropriately, fixing at least one test file.
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/614d9e0302
13:02 jnthn > say (1..100).grep(*.is-prime)
13:02 jnthn 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97
13:02 jnthn Seems to work ;)
13:03 [Coke] S32-str/capitalize.rakudo.jvm....​..................===SORRY!===
13:03 [Coke] java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 2
13:03 timotimo i'll run a new spectest now
13:03 [Coke] there's something for ya. :P
13:05 colomon jnthn: I don't know if anyone else remembers it, or it got fixed.  It was something like Rakudo's is-prime forgot what was prime after a while and just returned whatever.
13:05 spider-mario joined #perl6
13:05 timotimo how should i implement postcircumfix:<[ ]>(LoL $foo) for Any? should it make [5;5] behave just like [5][5]?
13:07 dalek nqp: 2d93042 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
13:07 dalek nqp: nqp::bitor_s and nqp::bitxor_s shouldn't truncate.
13:07 dalek nqp:
13:07 dalek nqp: Fixes some failing bitwise operator tets for Rakudo JVM.
13:07 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2d93042561
13:07 jnthn timotimo: I think that's the basic idea
13:09 timotimo i'll try to implement that then
13:09 timotimo will [1..5;1..5] result in a 2-d array then?
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13:12 moritz yes
13:12 timotimo cool. okay.
13:12 * geekosaur -barely- suppresses email response "I wasn't aware that Parrot *had* a future - or, for that matter, a present - separate from Rakudo"
13:12 timotimo i think it's time for a few more spectests.
13:13 timotimo i didn't spot it in the specs yet; that you get multidimensional arrays from slices
13:13 timotimo although it of course seems sensible
13:14 [Coke] geekosaur: yes, please surpress that. I think we can take the high road here.
13:14 [Coke] *supress
13:14 [Coke] *supress ! (argh!)
13:14 [Coke] *suppress ! (argh!)
13:14 [Coke] *whew.
13:14 timotimo surprese! typos :)
13:16 timotimo something went wrong in my spectest :|
13:22 [Coke] jnthn: passing tests went from 16596 to ... 16273 ...
13:22 jnthn [Coke]: Hmmm.
13:22 * [Coke] kicks off another run, since so much changed since that one started.
13:22 jnthn [Coke]: Up to date NQP too?
13:25 masak good afternoon, #perl6
13:25 [Coke] each run does a fresh checkout of rakudo & nqp.
13:25 [Coke] but that one started yesterday evening, so is already missing a ton of changes.
13:25 timotimo if i have my @part := @arr[4..6;4..6] will i address the resulting elements as @part[0;0]? will that give me @arr[4;4]?
13:26 timotimo if i have [4, 6;4, 6], will i get holes at @part[1;1]?
13:26 [Coke] I can post the results of it if you like
13:26 masak geekosaur: +1 about high road. Parrot is not in need of additional pummeling.
13:27 timotimo beautiful plumage, donnit?
13:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 03e005c | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/ (2 files):
13:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Check rw-ness on Scalar assignment.
13:27 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes the one failure left in S03-operators/increment.t, and probably
13:27 dalek rakudo/nom: more.
13:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/03e005cd27
13:27 masak how to immunize yourself from "is dead" jokes: name your project "Parrot".
13:28 timotimo :)
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13:31 dalek nqp: 73cea21 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
13:31 dalek nqp: Make lcm_I semantics match exceptations.
13:31 dalek nqp:
13:31 dalek nqp: Fixes remaining failure in lcm.t.
13:31 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/73cea214cd
13:31 timotimo I CANT SPECTEST LIKE THIS
13:32 masak timotimo: dude are you complaining that people are fixing things faster than you can spectest?
13:32 timotimo :D
13:32 timotimo this is crazy
13:33 jnthn [Coke]: I think I can understand the backslip. We probably passed various things bogusly before due to junctions not being detected due to missing type checking.
13:33 jnthn [Coke]: I put in the type checking but not the re-dispatch to the auto-threader yet.
13:33 jnthn [Coke]: So some test files that survived somehow now explode.
13:34 jnthn Hm, I keep running into tests that need that fixing. Guess I should do it nextish.
13:37 timotimo i need some serious metaop magic help now; i have 15:31 < jnthn> Hm, I keep running into tests that need that fixing. Guess I should do it nextish.
13:37 timotimo nope, that's not what i have.
13:37 timotimo for ([X] @$coords).tree { ... } is what i have
13:37 moritz does anybody know whether Hotspot or Zero work better with openjdk for nqp/rakudo?
13:38 timotimo and i need to get a list of re-mapped "indices" kind of
13:39 berekuk joined #perl6
13:40 timotimo https://gist.github.com/ano​nymous/d71b7db6988e477eb0a8 - does this seem attainable with just metaops?
13:40 timotimo i fear i'll have to reinvent X :(
13:40 timotimo unless i can go from ((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)) to zip a 0..* range into each sublist
13:41 timotimo that kind of seems doable
13:41 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords >>Z>> 0...*).perl
13:41 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Missing << or >>â�¤at /tmp/qhk52VFjMC:1â�¤------> [32m, (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords >>Z>[33mâ��[31m> 0...*).perl[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤Â»
13:42 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords >>Z,>> 0...*).perl
13:42 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«((1, 0), (4, 1), (8, 2)).list␤»
13:42 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords.tree >>Z,>> 0...*).perl
13:42 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«([1, 0, 2, 0, 3, 0], [4, 1, 6, 1], [8, 2, 9, 2, 9, 2]).list␤»
13:42 timotimo close ... but no cigar
13:43 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords.tree.map: { $_ Z 0...* }).perl
13:43 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«((1, 0), (2, 1), (3, 2), (4, 0), (6, 1), (8, 0), (9, 1), (9, 2)).list␤»
13:43 timotimo oh, that's close!
13:44 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords.tree.map: { $_ Z 0...* }).tree.perl
13:44 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«([1, 0], [2, 1], [3, 2], [4, 0], [6, 1], [8, 0], [9, 1], [9, 2]).list␤»
13:44 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords.tree.map: { ($_ Z 0...*).item }).tree.perl
13:44 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«([1, 0, 2, 1, 3, 2], [4, 0, 6, 1], [8, 0, 9, 1, 9, 2]).list␤»
13:44 timotimo r: my LoL $coords = LoL.new((1, 2, 3), (4, 6), (8, 9, 9)); say (@$coords.tree.map: { ($_ Z 0...*).tree }).tree.perl
13:44 camelia rakudo 614d9e: OUTPUT«([1, 0], [2, 1], [3, 2], [4, 0], [6, 1], [8, 0], [9, 1], [9, 2]).list␤»
13:44 * timotimo resorts to throwing in contextualisers and such in random spots hoping to draw a winning ticket >_>
13:45 pmichaud keep in mind that there's a lot of fixing that needs to be done with lists, LoLs, Z, and the like in Rakudo.
13:45 pmichaud and .tree
13:45 timotimo that's true :(
13:46 timotimo i hadn't even thought of that
13:46 timotimo when will you come around to that, pm? ;)
13:46 timotimo get around to it*
13:46 pmichaud timotimo: sadly, I don't know.  My hours aren't my own these days.
13:47 timotimo i understand :(
13:47 colomon pmichaud++
13:49 timotimo oh, when i'm in Any.pm, do I have to be careful about what i have available and what i don't have available?
13:51 colomon hmmm, smoke test didn't run last night.  look like the rakudo build failed.  :(
13:51 panchiniak_ joined #perl6
13:51 masak timotimo: basically, you always do (have to be careful about what you have available and what you don't have available) in the setting.
13:52 timotimo hm, and postcircumfix has to be a method on the object i'm trying to augment, right?
13:52 jnthn colomon: yeah, my fault...fixed already
13:52 colomon jnthn++
13:52 dalek nqp: f1e62c5 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P (2 files):
13:52 dalek nqp: Use portable nqp::flip(...), not .reverse().
13:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f1e62c57fe
13:54 woosley1 joined #perl6
13:55 pmichaud well, postcircumfixes are eventually to be subs, not methods.
13:56 crab2313 joined #perl6
13:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 7d6a3e8 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
13:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Assorted unbusting.
13:57 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Gets S05-grammar/protoregex.t passing in full, and probably others.
13:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7d6a3e877b
13:57 masak pmichaud: what was the primary reason for that shift? I'm not opposing it, just curious what lesson was learned to make sub seem better than method.
13:58 timotimo you can define them later on :P
13:59 nwc10 is rakudo-jvm good enough to run the ilbot yet?
13:59 jnthn No tockets
13:59 jnthn s
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14:02 FROGGS jnthn++ # commit "nqp::eqaddr should be core, not NQP only."
14:05 masak timotimo: well, my guess would be "you can optimize subs statically better than you can methods".
14:05 jnthn masak: Inlinability
14:05 jnthn masak: Otherwise we'll always struggle to get indexing into compact arrays down to something really efficient.
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 2aa4972 | jnthn++ | src/core/IO.pm:
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Unbust a little IO.
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Enough so slurp at least works now.
14:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2aa4972c6d
14:07 timotimo yay for slurp!
14:08 timotimo jnthn: does dir() seem like an LHF to you? if so, i'd like to try to implement it later
14:08 masak jnthn: oh, right.
14:09 timotimo i made spectests from like two commits ago; interested to see them?
14:09 jnthn timotimo: Potentially is, yes
14:09 jnthn timotimo: Shoudln't be too hard
14:09 timotimo cool :)
14:10 FROGGS shock, for a moment I thought stage parse got slower by 20%
14:10 FROGGS but my pc is making a backup right now....
14:11 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/8​a50eb8a3360e32c4cb4/revisions - a pretty diff for you, jnthn  :)
14:11 timotimo i believe it did the line wrapping because i >'d it into a file :(
14:12 timotimo Tests=17904 -> Tests=17642  that must be the junction thing you mentioned
14:14 timotimo my head asplode from slicing and stuff >_<
14:15 moritz while compiling the setting I get: Unhandled exception: java.lang.RuntimeException: Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp' in  (src/gen/main.nqp)
14:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 7f05613 | jnthn++ | src/core/Cursor.pm:
14:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix !INTERPOLATE; fully pass litvar.t.
14:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7f05613dbc
14:15 jnthn moritz: rm *.class
14:15 moritz jnthn: thanks
14:17 * colomon has started a module smoke test
14:21 moritz whoa wat, java takes 3GB virtual mem to compile the setting?
14:21 moritz (and it's not through yet)
14:22 moritz or does it just use up half the system memory, whatever it is? :-)
14:22 * JimmyZ only has 2GB memory
14:22 timotimo it does like its virtual memory
14:23 [Coke] you can tell your java to use less memory.
14:23 colomon install-jvm/nqp --target=jar --output=blib/Perl6/ModuleLoader.jar --encoding=utf8 \
14:23 colomon src/gen/ModuleLoader.nqp
14:23 colomon Unknown compilation target 'jar'
14:23 colomon :(
14:23 [Coke] colomon: you need a new nqp.
14:23 [Coke] (pretty much every time)
14:23 colomon [Coke]: I just built one
14:23 [Coke] sure you installed it?
14:24 moritz Stage parse      : 138,581
14:24 colomon [Coke]: https://gist.github.com/colomon/5841060 # my history
14:24 moritz that's not bad on this slow machine
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15:12 pmichaud r: my $a; my $b; my $c; my $d;   (($a, $b), ($c, $d)) = 1..4;   say ($a, $b, $c, $d);  # just curious
15:12 camelia rakudo 2aa497: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
15:12 pmichaud oh, cool.
15:12 masak \o/
15:12 pmichaud r: my $a; my $b; my $c; my $d;   (($a, $b), ($c, $d)) = 1..4;   say ($d);  # just curious
15:12 camelia rakudo 2aa497: OUTPUT«4␤»
15:13 moritz joined #perl6
15:13 masak r: my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = 1..4; (($a, $b), ($c, $d)) = (($a, $c), ($b, $d)); say ($a, $b, $c, $d)
15:13 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«1 3 2 4␤»
15:13 masak \o/
15:15 pmichaud so, in general, given $lol,  the postcircumfix should apply $lol[1..*] to each element of the slice SELF[@($lol[0])]
15:15 masak that's even spec.
15:16 masak something like "modulo access snafus, .[1;2;3] means .[1][2][3]"
15:16 pmichaud well, that says what to produce, but not how.
15:16 masak troo
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15:44 * masak .oO( punt on it like a punishing pundit so you can punctually puncture us with the punchiest puns... punk )
15:49 ztt_ rakudo: say * for 1..3
15:49 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«*␤*␤*␤»
15:49 djanatyn okay, I compiled a new rakudo, subscribed to the mailing lists, downloaded panda and ran the bootstrapping stuff, and I see a bunch of warnings about how IO.Handle.copy is deprecated
15:49 djanatyn I'm in a boring python lecture so I'm going to check that out
15:50 ztt_ why *?
15:50 nwc10 are they teaching Python 2 or Python 3? Does your print need () ?
15:50 ztt_ should be an error
15:50 djanatyn they're teaching python 2
15:50 nwc10 curious.
15:50 ztt_ warnning an error
15:50 djanatyn these poor kids
15:51 djanatyn they're using python 2.6.5 without readline support
15:51 nwc10 Gosh
15:51 ztt_ sorry for say *
15:51 djanatyn and almost all of them have nano open in one window and the python interpreter on the other
15:52 nwc10 that goes out of support this October: http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.8/
15:52 djanatyn when they want to update they type "execfile('filename.py')"
15:52 ztt_ * is magic
15:53 nwc10 why 2.6? Why not 2.7? And no mention of Python 3?
15:53 masak ztt_: hello, that's not how * is used.
15:53 djanatyn while they've been doing the lectures I compiled python 2.7.5 and python 3.3.2
15:53 masak rakudo: .say for 1..3
15:53 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
15:54 masak rakudo: say $_ for 1..3
15:54 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
15:54 djanatyn this is a bioinformatics workshop; they have python 2.6 installed because it works with BioPython and they don't want to break it
15:54 nwc10 ah OK.
15:55 colomon djanatyn: the deprecation warnings are because the code needs to be changed, but we don't want to break code by changing it before the next Rakudo Star release.
15:56 ztt_ masak: thx! * is magic
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15:57 masak ztt_: a bit, yes. the short explanation is that * == $_ + {}
15:57 masak ztt_: here, let me show you.
15:58 ztt_ masak: l'm listening
15:58 masak r: say (1..30).grep: { $_ % 10 == 2 }
15:58 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«2 12 22␤»
15:58 masak r: say (1..30).grep: * % 10 == 2
15:58 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«2 12 22␤»
15:58 [Coke] jnthn: back up (and over) to 16649 passing.
15:58 masak see? * == $_ + {}
15:59 huf what's the mumble in this explanation?
15:59 dalek roast: ef1b165 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/bag.t:
15:59 dalek roast: Make sure bag add and bag multiply work in reduce.
15:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ef1b1652d5
15:59 masak huf: it's not the whole story, because it's more like the first * is like $^a, the second * is like $^b, etc.
15:59 ztt_ masak: got it, thx master
15:59 * masak kowtows
15:59 huf masak: oh, i was expecting more surprises.
16:00 masak Perl 6: surprisingly few surprises :)
16:00 jnthn [Coke]: Is that a new high?
16:01 [Coke] r: say 16649 / 25979 # jvm/parrot
16:01 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«0.640864␤»
16:01 huf i guess i'm used to perl5 only being explainable by a successive list of progressively lesser lies :)
16:01 [Coke] jnthn: yes. regained the losses and then some.
16:01 [Coke] and I already saw multiple commits since I started this run.
16:03 ajr joined #perl6
16:03 diakopter .seen TimToady
16:03 yoleaux I saw TimToady 21 Jun 2013 22:02Z in #perl6: * TimToady has to get up again in 5ish hours to catch a plane, so --> bed &
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16:06 colomon rn: say 241025348275725.3352.Rat.norm.nude
16:06 camelia rakudo d02067, niecza v24-81-g6672fa2: OUTPUT«301281685344656669 1250␤»
16:06 * colomon is a little worried that rakudo jvm doesn't get the right answer for that.  :\
16:07 Ulti sorear: installing IO::Pty::HalfDuplex tests never come back and with a forced install of try.rakudo.org the REPL always times out, I'm on OSX is this a problem?
16:07 jnthn colomon: It...doesn't?
16:08 jnthn > 241025348275725.3352.Rat.norm.nude
16:08 jnthn 301281685344656669 1250
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16:09 masak huf: what's really refreshing is to go back and read the RFC that proposed behavior like * and $^a. and to see how the solution Perl 6 arrived at is orders of magniuted better.
16:10 masak huf: I wrote a post about it long ago: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog​/speaking-hypothetically-in-perl-6
16:18 colomon not ok 823 - Rat.Rat yields correct Rat
16:18 colomon #      got: '301281685344656669 1250'
16:18 colomon # expected: '301281685344656640 1250'
16:19 nwc10 is that at the limit of the floating point mantissa?
16:19 colomon nwc10: it's not a floating point, it's a rat
16:19 nwc10 but how is it implemented?
16:20 colomon jnthn: wait, wtf?
16:21 colomon oh!
16:21 colomon rn: say (301281685344656669, 1250)
16:21 camelia rakudo d02067, niecza v24-81-g6672fa2: OUTPUT«301281685344656669 1250␤»
16:21 colomon rakudo-jvm$ ./perl6
16:21 colomon > (301281685344656669, 1250)
16:22 colomon 301281685344656640 1250
16:22 colomon it's not Rat, it's Int that is the problem!
16:22 nwc10 awesome :-)
16:22 colomon > 301281685344656669
16:22 colomon 301281685344656640
16:22 colomon rn: say 301281685344656669
16:22 camelia rakudo d02067, niecza v24-81-g6672fa2: OUTPUT«301281685344656669␤»
16:22 colomon well, that's special
16:22 nwc10 is that a spectest yet? :-)
16:23 jnthn wtf...
16:24 Ulti good old out by 29 bug
16:24 nwc10 r: say sprintf "%x %x", 301281685344656640, 301281685344656669"
16:24 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/lJk9gDiccn:1â�¤------> [32m, 301281685344656640, 301281685344656669[33mâ��[31m"[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statem…
16:24 nwc10 OK, that didn't work.
16:24 nwc10 What did I mean?
16:24 nwc10 p5: printf "%x %x\n", 301281685344656640, 301281685344656669"
16:24 jnthn missing quote
16:24 jnthn or unexpected quote at end
16:25 jnthn Right where the yellow blob is :)
16:25 masak blob? it's a disk eject symbol!
16:25 masak :P
16:25 Ulti ^^
16:25 masak ⏏⏏
16:25 nwc10 r: say sprintf "%x %x", 301281685344656640, 301281685344656669
16:25 camelia rakudo d02067: OUTPUT«b84c9d00 b84c9d1d␤»
16:26 nwc10 so, that's your answer, isn't it? 32 bits
16:26 nwc10 oh, I can't read, 24
16:27 Ulti Java uses sign bytes instead of bits 254 is a +ve integer anything else is negative
16:30 masak my sprintf.nqp has bitrotted, fancy that.
16:30 masak can someone help me upgrade this routine to modern NQP? https://github.com/masak/sprin​tf/blob/master/sprintf.nqp#L26
16:30 masak obviously I shouldn't be doing pir::new__Ps('StringBuilder') as that is so 2012.
16:31 nwc10 oh, silly me. it's all truncated
16:31 nwc10 $ perl -le 'printf "%x %x\n", 301281685344656640, 301281685344656669'
16:31 nwc10 42e5e18b84c9d00 42e5e18b84c9d1d
16:31 jnthn masak: Just keep an array of strings and nqp::join 'em at the end
16:31 masak jnthn: gotcha.
16:34 masak why nqp::join and not join ?
16:34 masak oh, I guess the latter calls the former under the hood anyway...
16:35 jnthn masak: If you are already turning all the pieces into strings already, nqp::join is more efficient.
16:35 masak ah, ok.
16:42 timotimo hm, || syntax doesn't seem to exist yet
16:42 masak ah, the .[0] change of the ? quantifier was the cause of the bitrot :)
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17:15 jnthn afk for a bit
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17:32 masak about half an hour remain until the sprintf sprint.
17:33 masak let's hope ssutch and tadzik show up :)
17:33 FROGGS I'll be around too, but I might be late (kids are not in bed yet)
17:33 diakopter masak: see the clogs; ssutch was awake until not too many hours ago
17:34 masak well, he's the one set the time :)
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17:50 ssutch joined #perl6
17:50 diakopter ssutch: you made it :)
17:50 ssutch what did i make?
17:51 moritz IT!
17:51 ssutch sweet!
17:52 timotimo and with barely any sleep, too!
17:52 masak ssweet! \o/
17:52 FROGGS hehe
17:52 masak I counted almost 8 hours of sleep.
17:52 masak but maybe I missed some other channel?
17:52 masak ssutch: what's your github id?
17:53 ssutch masak: `samuraisam`
17:53 masak hehe
17:54 kst` joined #perl6
17:54 masak ssutch: you now have write access to https://github.com/masak/sprintf
17:55 masak ssutch: feel free to make any commit you deem necessary -- but I'd appreciate it if you always did '--rebase' when you pulled.
17:55 berekuk joined #perl6
17:55 ssutch no problem
17:56 ssutch my nqp is still pretty weak, i have to search the ops files a lot
17:57 masak or just ask here.
17:57 masak nqp: say("OH HAI")
17:57 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
17:57 masak wow, nqp you so fast :)
18:02 ssutch nqp: say((grammar X{}))
18:02 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«␤»
18:02 masak ssutch: I'm currently putting together a rough guide to the next two hours.
18:03 ssutch cool, thanks
18:03 ssutch are we trying to accomplish something like this: https://github.com/perl6/roast​/blob/master/S32-str/sprintf.t
18:07 masak ssutch: yes -- nice set of tests. feel free to simply bring them in bit by bit if you want.
18:08 masak ssutch: better to do it little by little than in one large bunch.
18:08 FROGGS masak: what about that? https://github.com/mirrors/perl​/blob/blead/t/op/sprintf.t#L176
18:08 masak FROGGS: very much so, too.
18:08 FROGGS k, great
18:08 masak as you see, we have more than two hours' work in front of us :)
18:08 masak but let's make a dent in this interesting beast.
18:08 masak ssutch: initial guidelines: https://github.com/masak/sprintf/commit/​d1308fe4b906f34c0db945b30a1a26a8d781333c
18:09 [Coke] pugs, niecza, rakudo-pvm - done. rakudo-jvm - S04 and counting. :)
18:09 masak I'll add the links to the two test files as well. ssutch++ FROGGS++
18:09 FROGGS masak: I'm back in an hour or so
18:09 masak FROGGS: sure thing.
18:13 masak ssutch: I feel like starting with %b, %B, %o, %x, and %X
18:14 ssutch masak ok ill try %c - seems like an easy enough place to start
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18:15 ssutch does nqp have big ints?
18:17 timotimo nqp: say(111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111);
18:17 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«-2147483648␤»
18:17 timotimo not like that
18:19 masak ssutch: if you prefer reviewing of commits, feel free to push to a branch.
18:19 ssutch masak yep
18:19 masak don't worry about wasting branches, either. just treat branches as convenient ways to link to commits :)
18:20 masak I will reserve the right to cherry-pick, rebase, and generally push --force this repo as I see fit :)
18:20 ssutch branches are practically free in git anyway
18:21 diakopter r: say $1111111111111111111111111
18:21 camelia rakudo 01fc34: OUTPUT«Cannot use negative index -2147483648 on Any␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10361␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:892␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11249␤  in block  at /tmp/soB3a4LRRC:1␤␤»
18:21 diakopter yah
18:21 diakopter nwc10: there's another truncate fun one ;)
18:22 * masak .oO( using the email regex again, are we? ) :P
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19:17 masak you guys are awesome.
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19:36 ssutch [11:13:21] <masak> ssutch: I feel like starting with %b, %B, %o, %x, and %X
19:36 masak FROGGS: yes, but feel free to steal %b :)
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19:50 [Coke] ^^ daily run, rakudo-jvm up over 17K passes.
19:50 nwc10 it sort of makes sense im my head, but I can't explain it
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20:12 [Coke] jnthn: will try to remember for next time. :)
20:12 * flussence dreams of some Grand Unified String Theory where sprintf and pack/unpack get replaced with something even better with a grammar-like syntax...
20:13 flussence .oO( oh wait, I may be describing perl5 formats... )
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20:46 ssutch nqp: say(match('<%0*0%>', /'%' $<size>=[[\d+|'*'] ** 0..2 '%'/))
20:46 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«Unrecognized regex metacharacter = (must be quoted to match literally) at line 2, near "'%' $<size"␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 14721 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:5232) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.nqp:279)␤»
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21:06 nwc10 Hello _ilbot!
21:10 _ilbot joined #perl6
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21:21 jnthn sorear: Because & needed to stay truncatitive
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21:37 nwc10 OK, "last week" we were at 66.62%, and "this week" we're improved?
21:37 nwc10 and "next week" is in about 8 hours?
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21:44 colomon \o/
21:45 FROGGS r: augment class Order { }
21:45 jnthn Don't see what's going on yet, though
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21:46 FROGGS okay, then I just numify the return value of cmp and <=>...
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22:26 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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22:28 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
22:35 _ilbot joined #perl6
22:35 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
22:39 _ilbot joined #perl6
22:39 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
22:41 _ilbot joined #perl6
22:41 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
23:00 _ilbot joined #perl6
23:00 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
23:30 _ilbot joined #perl6
23:30 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
23:30 tadzik 400% cpu load, 2 gigs of ram in use :)
23:35 _ilbot joined #perl6
23:35 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
23:48 _ilbot joined #perl6
23:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
23:54 _ilbot joined #perl6
23:54 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
23:54 timotimo http://codemirror.net/doc/manual.html#modeapi - this is documentation about that
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