Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-06-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:03 lue timotimo: Notice how S26 cheats this by putting four spaces in front of every line in its explicit code blocks, and its implicit code blocks (the .WHY/.WHEREFORE diagram S26/Declarator Blocks is an example) are not indented
00:03 timotimo ah, whoops :)
00:04 lue That's been a problem for a while, not your fault :)
00:04 lue (I'm looking at perlcabal.org's S26 btw)
00:05 lue I just noticed, thanks to that diagram, that Pod6's HTML converter appears to strip *all* leading whitespace. Huh.
00:06 timotimo hm.
00:08 lue Just from implicit code blocks though. The explicit code blocks have their indentation preserved.
00:08 timotimo that's kind of outside my headspace right now, sorry
00:09 lue I think that WHY/WHEREFORE diagram actually gives a good look at how the indentation gets messed up (I'll post a gist to explain)
00:09 timotimo i'll test :allow<...> configuration parsing now and then i'll see if i can get formatting codes inside code blocks working
00:09 lue timotimo: that's fine. I should describe the problem for everyone interested anyway :)
00:09 timotimo sounds good
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00:18 timotimo does it seem like a terrible and disgusting hack to set a dynamic variable that's in the grammar from a function inside Perl6/Pod.nqp?
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00:22 lue https://gist.github.com/lue/5872996    How it seems Pod::To::HTML messes up [ I'll present this to #perl6 again tomorrow when there's more of a crowd :) ]
00:24 * lue &
00:25 timotimo okay :)
00:34 timotimo not sure where B<=begin pod> is matching so that it would cause it to trip up in a block with :allow
00:35 timotimo oh, of course! <pod_string> will not match newlines!
00:36 timotimo i feel like it still needs to set $*VMARGIN before it'll work though
01:03 BenGoldberg I have a very silly question.  Considering that perl6 is very unicode capable, is there any chance that Rat could make use of the unicode fraction symbols, when there is an appropriate one?
01:03 BenGoldberg For example:
01:03 BenGoldberg r: .chr.say for 188..190, 8528..8542
01:03 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«¼␤½␤¾␤⅐␤⅑␤⅒␤⅓␤⅔␤⅕␤⅖␤⅗␤⅘␤⅙␤⅚␤⅛␤⅜␤⅝␤⅞␤»
01:05 timotimo you can prototype that in pure perl6 code :)
01:05 timotimo r: my class Rat { method new($a, $b) { say "oooohverride!" } }; say <1/2>; say 1/2;
01:05 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«1/2␤0.5␤»
01:05 timotimo hm, can't override it like that, eh?
01:06 timotimo r: class Rat { method new($a, $b) { say "oooohverride!" } }; say <1/2>; say 1/2;
01:06 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«1/2␤0.5␤»
01:06 timotimo which is strange
01:06 timotimo oh, no it's not
01:06 timotimo infix:</> will just have the regular Rat in its scope
01:08 timotimo i'm surprised both pod_textcontent tokens have a <pod_newline> in them, but they are joined with <pod_newline>+ in the pod_content:sym<text> token, too
01:08 timotimo doesn't that mean it requires there to be two newlines after each one?
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01:20 BenGoldberg (Temporarily) ignoring output, how hard would it be so that the 1/2 character will always act as a hardcoded Rat.new(1,2)?
01:24 timotimo macro it?
01:24 timotimo gotta run now
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01:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: a420f1c | coke++ | / (4 files):
01:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
01:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/a420f1c0b0
01:33 timotimo i was hoping i could get my debugging results faster with only make perl6, but i can't run my tiny test case with the resulting binary :(
01:34 timotimo probably need to pass an empty setting ror something
01:34 [Coke] ^^ the rakudo.jvm gain there is illusory - rakudo.parrot is failing tests.
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01:35 timotimo indeed
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: fd88b6c | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/fd88b6c743
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 61c9e6b | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/61c9e6bed1
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 0a70dd4 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/0a70dd493a
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e9ff3c7 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/e9ff3c788b
01:37 timotimo do you KBOw how you can type with two fingers on GHthe android portrait keyboard?
01:37 timotimo it really amazes me ow hthat works
01:40 [Coke] whoops.
01:42 timotimo i shall there is no shame in force pushing
01:45 [Coke] that last rakudo.jvm was the wrong one. the right one had a huge # of failures, presumably because I tried TEST_JOBS=2. rerunning
01:46 [Coke] (and I'll probably force push today's commit once it's right.
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01:54 sorear think I'll patch test_summary tonight
02:01 [Coke] sorear++
02:22 timotimo i don't understand why pod_textcontent:sym<regular> requires strictly more spaces than the VMARGIN
02:25 timotimo i think i'd be better off not trying to use <pod_textcontent> in blocks where :allow is activated
02:25 timotimo that seems to stretch it a wee bit far.
02:26 [Coke] uhoh. seeing lots of aborts on the rakudo.jvm run. wondering if the last run count was right.
02:27 sorear I may be in the process of breaking other tests while fixing rx.t
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02:45 [Coke] ... a lot of them, aye.
02:46 [Coke] up to S32-str, hopefully can post this before sleep
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02:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1c3e8d8 | coke++ | / (5 files):
02:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
02:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/1c3e8d8b68
02:54 [Coke] ok, that rewrote history.
02:54 [Coke] rakudo.jvm down to 4.48%. :(
02:55 colomon wtf?
02:56 colomon are those numbers broken?  I mean, I'm looking at a single file right now with 100 passing tests.  Surely that cannot be 9% of the total passes for R-JVM.
02:57 [Coke] There is insufficient memory for the Java Runtime Environment to continue.
02:57 colomon likewise cos.t has 154 passing tests.
02:57 colomon ah
03:01 [Coke] colomon: you could try the ulimited p6 I'm using to see if that's what it is.
03:02 colomon [Coke]: it's time for me to go to bed, but I'd be happy to give it a try in the morning.
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03:08 colomon r: say 1R/2**256
03:08 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Confusedâ�¤at /tmp/1xhmfMZBUd:1â�¤------> [32msay 1[33mâ��[31mR/2**256[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        whitespaceâ�¤Â»
03:09 colomon r: say 1.FatRat/2**256
03:09 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000086␤»
03:09 colomon r: say (1.FatRat/2**256).Num
03:09 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«8.63616855509444e-78␤»
03:09 colomon r: say 1/ (1.FatRat/2**256).Num
03:09 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«1.15792089237316e+77␤»
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04:32 dalek mu: 8449f0d | lue++ | docs/feather/syn_index.html:
04:32 dalek mu: [docs/feather] Add S99 to syn_index.html
04:32 dalek mu:
04:32 dalek mu: It's already available if you type the URL directly, this just makes it
04:32 dalek mu: accessible from the index.
04:32 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/8449f0d06c
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05:14 dalek specs: c7e59ef | lue++ | S99-glossary.pod:
05:14 dalek specs: [S99] Add definitions, fix links
05:14 dalek specs:
05:14 dalek specs: Adds a number of terms and definitions to the glossary. Also fixes links
05:14 dalek specs: so they point to parts of this page instead of other (nonexistent)
05:14 dalek specs: pages.
05:14 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c7e59efdfd
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05:43 dalek specs: 0af5ba1 | (Brent Laabs)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
05:43 dalek specs: document IO::Path.succ and .pred, clarify path creation
05:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/0af5ba1ae0
05:43 dalek specs: 78487b0 | (Brent Laabs)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
05:43 dalek specs: specify :parent option in IO::Path.cleanup
05:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/78487b0e5e
05:43 dalek specs: f95923d | (Brent Laabs)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
05:43 dalek specs: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/specs
05:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/f95923d042
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06:37 diakopter .tell masak did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo-gA9Z9SaA
06:37 yoleaux diakopter: I'll pass your message to masak.
06:37 diakopter wait, that's not the oo talk
06:37 diakopter .tell sorear your voice is there
06:37 yoleaux diakopter: I'll pass your message to sorear.
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06:49 sorear diakopter: woohoo the videoproject is not dead
06:49 yoleaux 06:37Z <diakopter> sorear: your voice is there
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07:18 FROGGS morning
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07:23 sorear o/ FROGGS
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07:36 sorear would it have killed the asm.tree authors to give LookupSwitchInsnNode and TableSwitchInsnNode a common supertype?
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07:38 FROGGS ohh damnit, GlitchMr splintered /o\
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07:42 lizmat lue++ for fixing stuff in S99 and teaching me the correct way of doing intra document links
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08:00 * lizmat is wondering whether we should write S99 in pod6 and use the =defn markers
08:00 dalek nqp: f63cafa | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/jast2bc/AutosplitMethodWriter.java:
08:00 dalek nqp: Break switches with more than 256 cases into bite-sized pieces to make them more palatable to the list splitter
08:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f63cafaa67
08:01 lizmat it would give timotimo something else to test his work on
08:03 sorear heehee
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08:20 dalek specs: 9b12b4c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
08:20 dalek specs: Some more additions / refinements / explanations
08:20 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/9b12b4c82b
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08:20 dalek nqp: 4da2c35 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/jast2bc/AutosplitMethodWriter.java:
08:20 dalek nqp: transfer try/catch and line number info to the fragments
08:20 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4da2c3501f
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08:42 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:45 sorear morning jnthn
08:45 FROGGS morning
08:45 sorear jnthn: [Coke] saw the pass rate fall off a cliff yesterday.  Might it be something I did?
08:45 FROGGS jnthn: you might be interested in my comment at the bottom: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116613
08:45 jnthn sorear: Well, I've been practically useless for the last couple of days...
08:46 jnthn sorear: Which means it's possible I've committed next to nothing or something stupid... :)
08:46 sorear 19:54 < [Coke]> rakudo.jvm down to 4.48%. :(
08:46 jnthn sorear: Looks like my last commit was on the 23rd.
08:47 jnthn So I'm guessing falling off a cliff yesterday isn't anything I did.
08:48 jnthn FROGGS: augmenting the subtype causes method cache recomputation, which is the thing that needs to happen.
08:48 FROGGS jnthn: that is what I thought :o)
08:49 jnthn I didn't forget the issue, it just didn't make it too close to the top of my todo list yet.
08:50 sorear Whose bright idea was it for the type argument to anewarray to be the *component* type, while the type argument to multianewarray is the *finished array* type and the argument to newarray is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT?
08:51 jnthn Strangely *inconsistent*.
08:51 * jnthn tripped over that at least once.
08:51 TimToady A foolish inconsistency is the hobgoblin of large minds.  :)
08:52 jnthn mmmm...hobgoblin!
08:52 jnthn ...but not at this time of day :)
08:53 sorear ?
08:53 TimToady do they make beer from hobgoblins now? :)
08:54 sorear .oO( do they make beer from animals, period? )
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08:54 jnthn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobgoblin_(beer)#Hobgoblin :)
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08:56 sorear i see.
08:57 FROGGS jnthn: that was not really a reminder for that issue, I just wanted to hear you thoughts... like "yes, that could be the fix, or: no, there is some underlying issue"...
08:57 jnthn FROGGS: Well, the deep issue is it needs some kind of weak reference-y thing.
08:57 FROGGS ahh, k
08:57 jnthn FROGGS: Otherwise, anonymous subclasses would accidentally live forever.
08:58 sorear how hard would it be to add weak references to nqp?
08:59 jnthn sorear: Well, I was pondering a special-cased publish/subscribe mechanism for the MOP to convey things like this, and hiding the details of how it achieves weakness, rather than actually doing real weak references.
08:59 jnthn sorear: We could look at doing weak refs generally, though.
09:00 sorear I think that weak refs are a pretty important language feature, I'd be +1 to doing them generally if it's not infeasible on Parrot
09:00 jnthn Well, that's kinda what put me off ;)
09:01 jnthn JVM has 'em though. I didn't put 'em in Moar yet, but only 'cus I haven't needed them so far.
09:01 sorear how would you do pubsub without weakrefs??
09:04 jnthn sorear: "great evil"
09:05 jnthn sorear: There is a hook in Parrot for when something is being freed. My idea was that when an STable gets freed, it goes and unsubscribes stuff first.
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09:14 sorear jnthn: does parrot guarantee non-movement?
09:15 sorear oh wait, the STable isn't garbage collected
09:17 sorear jnthn: the p5way is to mix a role (ok, MAGIC type) into backref targets that 1. maintains a list of unmanaged backrefs 2. clears them on free
09:22 jnthn sorear: yes, it doesn't move
09:22 jnthn sorear: STables are GC'd too
09:23 jnthn There's no global type registry
09:24 sorear jnthn: I mean they're malloced, not PMCs
09:24 sorear s/mean/meant/
09:24 jnthn sorear: oh
09:24 jnthn yes
09:24 jnthn Well, they're wrapped in a PMC
09:24 timotimo good * #perl6
09:24 jnthn o/ timotimo
09:26 jnthn sorear: I'm not a Rakudo JVM spectest run here
09:27 jnthn uh
09:27 jnthn I'm *doing* a ...
09:29 jnthn It's failing to look especially bad.
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09:37 dalek nqp: a468f3d | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/jast2bc/AutosplitMethodWriter.java:
09:37 dalek nqp: Generate wrapper code
09:37 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a468f3da90
09:37 * sorear is now at the point to start trying to run fragmented code
09:37 sorear surprise, surprise!  VerifyError!
09:38 jnthn /o\
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09:43 * timotimo does a very simple first attempt at making table cells be parsed with format codes
09:43 timotimo also missing for more greatness: allowing =config C<> :allow<...>
09:45 jnthn sorear: The spectest here on my machine doesn't have epic fail like in the nightly run.
09:46 FROGGS unpushed code?
09:47 jnthn nothing here
09:48 FROGGS sad there is no error message in the test summary
09:49 sorear jnthn: Unhandled exception: Can not call method 'load_setting' on a null object
09:49 sorear know anything about that?
09:51 sorear oh, huh
09:51 sorear apparently if you do --target=jast it doesn't serialize
09:51 sorear so if you jast2bc manually, you wind up with useless classes
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09:53 jnthn I think --target=jast dumps the JAST text
09:57 jnthn yeah, spectest finished here. Actually ran 200 more tests since the last run I did.
09:59 masak good noon, #perl6
09:59 yoleaux 06:37Z <diakopter> masak: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo-gA9Z9SaA
10:00 timotimo did he see it?!
10:02 masak he had not. thanks, diakopter++ :)
10:03 timotimo not from that viewpoint at least
10:04 timotimo in my dream last night i held a spontaneous talk about something probably perl6 related and i made many many thinkos and when i saw the recording directly afterwards the video and audio quality was as bad as if it were recorded on VHS in the early 90s and played back today >_> (there is no point to this)
10:07 sorear o/ masak
10:07 masak \o
10:07 sorear masak: have you seen https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MoarVM&amp;action=history ?
10:08 masak yes, I have.
10:09 * jnthn tries to discern something useful from it
10:10 jnthn "yet another"? :)
10:10 masak yes, that doesn't sound filly NPoV :)
10:10 masak fully*
10:10 timotimo hum. i have a question.
10:11 timotimo shouldn't i be able to just use %*LANG inside src/Perl6/Pod.nqp?
10:11 FROGGS jnthn: c'mon, it is just another backend :P
10:11 timotimo return %*LANG<main>.parse($t, :rule<pod_string>).ast <- shouldn't this work?
10:12 moritz nothing will set the .ast unless you specify actions
10:12 timotimo oooooh
10:12 timotimo of course
10:13 timotimo MAIN-actions should do, right?
10:13 timotimo and it seems like main is wrong and should be MAIN instead
10:13 FROGGS should probalby be MAIN, yes
10:13 FROGGS but if you invoke it like this, it doesnt know about its actions
10:14 timotimo yes, i passed :actions(%*LANG<MAIN-actions>) now
10:14 timotimo i hope that's the actual instance in use, not the class
10:15 FROGGS I'd try $*ACTIONS
10:16 sorear $(NQP_PREIX) not work so well
10:16 timotimo i see %*LANG<MAIN-actions> := $*ACTIONS.HOW.mixin... a few times
10:17 FROGGS and then it is bound again to $*ACTIONS in token statement
10:17 sorear ===SORRY!===
10:17 sorear java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException
10:17 FROGGS so maybe there is no difference
10:18 jnthn sorear: I think there was a runtime exception?
10:18 jnthn ;)
10:18 FROGGS sorear: well, that explains it
10:18 sorear i have heard, probably apocryphally, that there are prolog implementations which output "No." on any syntax error
10:19 FROGGS I have heard niecza saying "WTF" :o)
10:20 sorear that one's a special case in succ/pred
10:20 FROGGS I see *g*
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10:21 sorear Oh hey a new one
10:21 sorear ===SORRY!===
10:21 sorear java.lang.ClassFormatError: Illegal class name "Ljava/lang/Object;" in class file 18A8CCE068DABA0E352F805EC10407D0764CC67F
10:21 sorear slightly more useful
10:22 timotimo .o(at least it's not crashing)
10:24 masak is that because of the semicolon at the end?
10:24 sorear masak: it's because the java virtual machine has at least four incompatible syntaxes for class names and I used the wrong one for the context
10:24 * moritz thought that should be java.long.Object
10:24 moritz *lang
10:25 jnthn sorear: Argh, that is teh annoying...
10:25 sorear It's actually supposed to be java/lang/Object there
10:25 * jnthn still can't remember which syntax is wanted in various places :/
10:26 masak moritz: notice the 'L' in the beginning.
10:26 masak moritz: this is some kind of internal VM representation.
10:29 moritz oh
10:31 timotimo oh that's why it doesn't finish
10:31 timotimo should always increment the index when in while loops.
10:38 timotimo ah, darn
10:39 timotimo i messed up the serialization somehow and am getting Cannot assign a non-Perl 6 value to a Perl 6 container
10:39 timotimo turns out, serialize_aoaos isn't the right thing to use when you don't have strings, who would have known?
10:42 sorear oops.  the verifier has decided that Lorg/perl6/nqp/runtime/CallFrame; and Lorg/perl6/nqp/runtime/CallFrame; can only be merged as Ljava/lang/Object;
10:46 sorear oh, do I need to mention that we're now successfully creating a classfile from rx.rakudo?
10:46 timotimo \o/
10:46 timotimo 80% here we come.
10:47 masak sorear++
10:48 sorear ne'er said it *ran*. :D
10:48 timotimo if it exists, it almost runs, dunnit? :)
10:49 timotimo took only a couple of millenia for single-celled organism to learn to walk on land after all
10:49 sorear if I could stop getting quite so many VerifyErrors, then sure :D
10:49 sorear um
10:49 sorear java.lang.VerifyError: Expecting a stack map frame in method 912E823799037398A506061657F7E304613B5EB4.qb_1$f4(I[Ljava/lang/Object;)I at offset 38677
10:50 sorear but I'm using COMPUTE_FRAMES...
10:52 sorear oh, because it's dead code
11:03 jnthn sorear++ # getting us towards rx.t
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11:10 dalek nqp: b8d3b40 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
11:10 dalek nqp: Refactor to remove asm-commons dep; install asm-tree
11:10 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b8d3b401f0
11:10 sorear Files=1, Tests=739,  1 wallclock secs ( 0.20 usr +  0.00 sys =  0.20 CPU)
11:10 sorear Result: PASS
11:11 pecastro joined #perl6
11:12 dalek nqp: 7b14f69 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/jast2bc/AutosplitMethodWriter.java:
11:12 dalek nqp: Assorted bugfixes
11:12 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7b14f6937b
11:12 dalek nqp: cd1ee20 | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (2 files):
11:12 dalek nqp: Automatically use method splitter if needed
11:12 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cd1ee200f2
11:12 dalek rakudo/nom: d8a0e12 | sorear++ | tools/build/Makefile-JVM.in:
11:12 dalek rakudo/nom: List asm-tree as a 3rdparty jar
11:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d8a0e1236d
11:13 sorear only 739?
11:14 sorear jnthn: curious if it's robust enough to work on someone else's system...:D
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11:17 sorear [Coke]: did not get around to test_summary hacking.  oopsies.
11:17 * sorear -> sleep
11:17 * sorear looks forward to hearing how many tests he broke
11:17 lizmat gnight sorear!
11:18 sorear (we're passing rx.t, after all)
11:18 lizmat before you can have any eggs, you need to break some omelette!
11:21 jnthn sorear: Will pull and try it :)
11:21 jnthn sorear++ # this is awesome!
11:22 daxim tell daxim we both, present and future self, are here
11:22 daxim where's the message bot?
11:22 jnthn Also...rx.t passed right off without us having to fix the regex engine anywhere?! :)
11:23 FROGGS daxim: use .tell
11:23 daxim .tell daxim ho hum.
11:23 yoleaux daxim: Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness.
11:23 colomon rn: say (1.FatRat/2**256).Num
11:24 camelia rakudo 5c0dae: OUTPUT«8.63616855509444e-78␤»
11:24 camelia ..niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«8.6361685550944446E-78␤»
11:24 daxim .tell raiph learn to write better copy - http://www.useit.com/articles/inverted-pyramids-in-cyberspace/ - in long texts, put the conclusions first
11:24 yoleaux daxim: I'll pass your message to raiph.
11:24 colomon jvm> (1.FatRat/2**256).Num
11:24 colomon 0
11:24 * timotimo is not making progress :|
11:25 jnthn .tell jntһn this is madness too
11:25 yoleaux jnthn: What kind of a name is "jntһn"?!
11:25 jnthn aww!
11:26 lizmat .tell this is madness as well
11:26 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to this.
11:26 tadzik what kind of rapping name is steve
11:26 lizmat who's this?
11:27 timotimo tadzik: is it because you're a water-dwelling mammal?
11:27 timotimo tadzik: i'm glad you're back; do you have a couple of minutes for poor ol' me?
11:28 tadzik timotimo: oh, sure
11:28 timotimo i've invented (haha) a function for src/Perl6/Pod.nqp called "parse_formatcode_in_text" and i'm calling it from inside table, so that each cell would theoretically have their formatting codes parsed
11:28 timotimo but i've run into all sorts of errors while blindly trying to come up with something, anything that would work
11:29 tadzik ah, yes
11:29 timotimo the newest, strangest error is this one here: https://gist.github.com/timo/543f7b8b791cbd617b71
11:30 tadzik my understanding was always that either formattingcodes should be entirely post-processed (which would help code blocks as well), or that table parser will need to call back to the grammar at some point
11:30 timotimo i've tried parsing the pod_string rule before, that didn't work (that's where i copied that merge_twines + serialize_array call from)
11:30 timotimo except formatting codes allow newlines where they may otherwise not be, so a little part of it needs to be in the non-post part
11:31 tadzik *nod*
11:32 xinming joined #perl6
11:32 timotimo if this code starts working, maybe the preprocessing can be slimmed down and formattingcode generation can indeed be made post-processing
11:33 timotimo that would certainly make things easier; the code blocks thing you've mentioned had me busy for quite a while with very little results
11:33 btyler joined #perl6
11:34 timotimo also, it seems like the code i had before that gave me this output for a simple table with cells with and without formattingcodes: Array.new(Pod::Block::Table.new(caption => Any, headers => Array.new(), config => ().hash, content => Array.new(["", "", ""], ["", "", ""], ["", "", ""])))
11:34 tadzik :|
11:35 timotimo it seems like i'm forgetting to reset the @newrow contents in the nested loop below, fwiw
11:36 colomon sorear: with your changes, rx.t works fine on my system.  however, there's a turn of debugging output you left live in there.  :)
11:36 colomon Ljava/lang/RuntimeException; : 1
11:36 colomon calcSize: 0-1 : centry(69) uentry(11) base(1) uexit(14) cexit(39) total(134)
11:36 colomon etc
11:36 * colomon doesn't know if rx.t worked before or not; his Linux box has a *lot* of memory
11:38 timotimo it didn't work before because the jvm aborted compilation
11:38 timotimo can you make out how many tests in that suite succeed?
11:39 dalek specs: f553b6c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
11:39 dalek specs: Some more additions and explanations
11:39 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/f553b6c76c
11:42 colomon timotimo: "in that suite"?  in roast, or some subset?
11:42 timotimo sorry; rx.t
11:42 colomon timotimo: 100%
11:42 colomon All tests successful.
11:42 colomon Files=1, Tests=739, 22 wallclock secs ( 0.08 usr  0.01 sys +  0.05 cusr  0.04 csys =  0.18 CPU)
11:42 colomon Result: PASS
11:43 timotimo wow, that's pretty cool :)
11:44 timotimo takes us up to only 74% of rakudo, though :(
11:46 timotimo can you run it on parrokudo and measure the time there as well?
11:46 Teratogen joined #perl6
11:47 lizmat parrokudo ?
11:47 lizmat :-)
11:48 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
11:49 colomon Files=713, Tests=20529, 589 wallclock secs ( 3.64 usr  0.91 sys + 19.53 cusr  3.89 csys = 27.97 CPU)
11:50 colomon that's not a significant change from the last results I got, I think
11:50 colomon maybe more passing tests?  can't really tell from that.
11:50 timotimo that's a massive time difference between parrot and jvm
11:50 timotimo oh
11:50 timotimo you were running *all* files
11:50 * timotimo fails communication today
11:51 lizmat Files=1, Tests=739, 56 wallclock secs ( 0.20 usr  0.03 sys + 54.62 cusr  1.05 csys = 55.90 CPU)  # MacBook Pro i5/Parrot
11:52 lizmat 54.62 cusr compared to 0.05 cusr?  WTF ?
11:52 timotimo tadzik: fwiw, my changes to the pod stuff are in timo/rakuo on the pod6-improvements branch if you want to check it locally
11:52 timotimo is that "cumulative user time" or something?
11:52 colomon lizmat: as I understand it, it has something to do with sorear++'s java harness for the test
11:53 timotimo colomon: but it says "parrot" at the end of that line
11:53 lizmat still, 22 wallclock vs 56 wallclock, that's a factor of 2.5
11:53 colomon oh.
11:53 timotimo you have the same computer specs as colomon?
11:54 * colomon is going to upgrade his MBP to 10.8.x sometime this weekend, he thinks...
11:54 colomon timotimo: surely not
11:54 timotimo in that case the 2.5 number isn't to be trusted
11:54 colomon I'm running the tests on my big linux box
11:55 colomon I'm rebuilding parakudo right now
11:59 lizmat parakudo ?  :-)
12:00 * lizmat is watching the evolvement of a new term
12:03 xinming joined #perl6
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12:11 daxim http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=1040324   # commit stats
12:15 * timotimo will hopefully manage a non-spiky contribution pattern
12:15 timotimo non-spiky as in: not falling off to nothing for very long periods of time, possibly forever
12:20 colomon notice that I have made 400+ p6 commits in the last year, just mostly not to the projects he looked at in that post.
12:20 ggoebel joined #perl6
12:21 lizmat it doesn't matter..  it's all lies, damn lies and statistics anyway
12:22 colomon Files=1, Tests=739, 22 wallclock secs ( 0.07 usr  0.00 sys + 21.04 cusr  0.33 csys = 21.44 CPU) # parrakudo
12:22 timotimo although ... a tool could be devised to tally up the commits and stuff over all projects in the ecosystem
12:22 timotimo there's already a "fetch all the git repos" script for the smoker
12:22 timotimo so pretty much exactly the same time?
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12:23 timotimo out of curiosity, can you run the rx.rakudo-jvm.t with just ./perl6 on the jvm?
12:23 timotimo it'll probably turn out slower in that case :(
12:23 colomon Files=1, Tests=739, 22 wallclock secs ( 0.10 usr  0.01 sys +  0.07 cusr  0.03 csys =  0.21 CPU) # rakudo jvm
12:23 timotimo (again: slow startup + warmup time for the jit + many different pieces of code will not let the jit warm up properly)
12:24 colomon note that neither test seems to be accurately reporting the wallclock secs
12:24 timotimo that definitely went through the evalserver
12:26 colomon > time ./perl6 -Ilib t/spec/S05-mass/rx.rakudo.jvm
12:26 colomon real0m21.091s
12:26 colomon user0m45.127s
12:26 colomon sys0m0.644s
12:27 colomon lizmat: yes, true.  I love how he uses committers over time to see how the "live" the repos are, without looking at "
12:27 timotimo that makes more sense. parallel gc and all
12:27 colomon commits over time at all, which is the actual interesting thing.
12:28 timotimo then again, a "commit" can be small or big, but still be just one commit
12:28 colomon I think git makes it pretty easy to count the lines in a commit
12:29 timotimo right, and github also shows that cumulated
12:29 timotimo https://github.com/perl6/nqp/graphs/contributors?from=2009-10-04&amp;to=2013-06-23&amp;type=a
12:29 JimmyZ Don't care about these details :P
12:29 colomon the fact that we've added two entire new backends in the last year suggests that we are not fading into nothingingness!
12:29 JimmyZ I did commit almost nothing
12:30 timotimo very true
12:31 JimmyZ and I'm not nqp/rakudo committer either
12:38 JimmyZ colomon: Is there a rx.rakudo.parrot time?
12:39 lizmat JimmyZ: I posted one a little while ago:
12:39 lizmat Files=1, Tests=739, 56 wallclock secs ( 0.20 usr  0.03 sys + 54.62 cusr  1.05 csys = 55.90 CPU)  # MacBook Pro i5/Parrot
12:40 colomon time ./perl6 -Ilib t/spec/S05-mass/rx.rakudo.parrot
12:40 colomon real0m20.628s
12:40 colomon user0m20.165s
12:40 colomon sys0m0.400s
12:40 ggoebel joined #perl6
12:40 FROGGS r: sprintf('%s') # masak, is that known? dunno if it matters thought because your sprintf will handle it right
12:40 JimmyZ thanks :P
12:40 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤  in sub sprintf at src/gen/CORE.setting:2769␤  in block  at /tmp/pgObleiXIk:1␤␤»
12:41 FROGGS though*
12:44 Ulti that perlmonks commit stat post is a bit uppety :/ why dont people bothered about perl5 version number just pull a Java and use a number not related to the version, or even just start saying Perl.18, Perl.20 with each release of Perl5
12:46 Ulti Java 2 aka 1.2 that's where they got the 2 from afaik?
12:46 lizmat I wonder what the git stats on Perl 5 indicate  ;-)  if you really want to compare these silly things
12:49 ggoebel2 joined #perl6
12:50 Ulti oh I forgot Java did the version number thing twice, with 1.5 just becoming 5.0 instead
12:51 Ulti but its still Java2 even with the bigger version number :S how's that not more confusing than Perl
12:51 Timbus joined #perl6
12:51 Ulti though I guess its the api version rather than language
12:52 lizmat joined #perl6
12:53 mathw joined #perl6
12:53 colomon lizmat: I'm pondering writing a response to that post on my blog
12:53 pnu joined #perl6
12:53 jercos joined #perl6
12:54 JimmyZ https://github.com/mirrors/perl/graphs/contributors
12:54 JimmyZ :D
12:57 lizmat JimmyZ++
12:57 konundra joined #perl6
12:58 timotimo commute^Wbikeride&
13:00 ggoebel joined #perl6
13:00 JimmyZ https://github.com/mirrors/perl/commits?author=TimToady
13:00 JimmyZ 1988 ....
13:01 xinming joined #perl6
13:01 lizmat now you know why Perl 5 has been so stable  :-)
13:04 Stygia joined #perl6
13:04 JimmyZ limzat: I see you there too :{
13:04 JimmyZ :P
13:05 lizmat me?  in Perl 5 ?  I don't (want to) remember :-)
13:09 xinming joined #perl6
13:36 timotimo tadzik: fwiw, i think https://github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/pull/2 can be merged. i *think* i have a commitbit, but i'd like someone else to look over it first. would you be so kind? :)
13:36 tadzik timotimo: yes, by all means :)
13:36 tadzik timotimo: but I'm at work now
13:37 tadzik I give you my blessing to go ahead and merge it :)
13:38 btyler joined #perl6
13:38 timotimo thank you :)
13:39 tadzik I've seen the results it produces, it looks cute
13:40 timotimo parts of it come from my rakudo changes as well
13:40 timotimo i'll just make one last run over the code to make sure i didn't break things that were okay before
13:43 Nom- Evening
13:44 lizmat Afternoon!
13:44 moritz morning!
13:45 colomon morning!
13:45 lizmat :q
13:45 * hugme hugs lizmat, good vi(m) user!
13:45 lizmat thank you, but but but  :-)
13:46 * lizmat starts wondering whether she left an i in somewhere
13:48 Nom- Would discussions relating to Moe be in here or somewhere else?  Been playing with it, and it looks rather interesting :)
13:49 tadzik Nom-: #moe is probably more appropriate :)
13:49 Nom- I looked earlier and it seemed empty :P
13:49 tadzik maybe it's on irc.perl.org then, I dunno
13:49 Nom- Yeah, looks like there's one here but it's empty... i'll check in irc.perl :P
13:51 lizmat rn: my Int $h; say $h.of  # is this a case of NYI, or is there a reason for this omission ?
13:51 camelia niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method of in type Int␤  at /tmp/DC_9U2SBQO line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4579 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4580 (module-CORE @ 576) ␤  at /home/p6e…
13:51 camelia ..rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/Okl97IVzja:1␤␤»
13:52 lizmat rn: my Int %h; say %h.of  # works fine for hashes and arrays
13:52 camelia niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method of in type Hash␤  at /tmp/4Z8XlFIkN0 line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4579 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4580 (module-CORE @ 576) ␤  at /home/p6…
13:52 camelia ..rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
13:52 lizmat well, in the rakudo case, then  :-)
13:59 dalek v5: 444b94e | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
13:59 dalek v5: dispatch postcircumfix:[] to :P5[] and allow negative values
13:59 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/444b94ecb7
13:59 dalek v5: 4b18516 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
13:59 dalek v5: have method P5do in Any only
13:59 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/4b185162e7
13:59 dalek v5: e9abe60 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (4 files):
13:59 dalek v5: support unpack
13:59 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/e9abe60d6e
14:01 lizmat support unpack, ooo wow!
14:02 FROGGS lizmat: stolen from Buf, though I added directive U
14:02 FROGGS there might be a better (faster) way to do that, but this worx, so I'm fine with it for now
14:03 colomon \o/
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14:13 timotimo FROGGS: kind of surprising how few test cases that makes pass :(
14:13 lizmat I thought the pack/unpack tests in p5 ran in the thousands ?
14:14 FROGGS lizmat: pack has >14k
14:14 FROGGS I'm working on that right now
14:14 FROGGS timotimo: yeah, sometimes you get no extra pass when fixing fundamentally things :/
14:14 JimmyZ FROGGS: multi method P5unpack(Str:D:), I guess you lost someting
14:14 Chillance joined #perl6
14:15 FROGGS for example because the tests fail because 'use version' fails
14:15 colomon FROGGS: isn't that the worst?
14:15 felipe joined #perl6
14:15 FROGGS JimmyZ: nope, that P5unpack gets invoked on the template, and the to-unpack string is optional (and defaults to $_)
14:16 FROGGS colomon: what is the worst?
14:16 FROGGS (there are many worse things)
14:16 colomon FROGGS: making a significant change which doesn't register in test runs
14:16 colomon "worst" is perhaps hyperbole.  ;)
14:17 FROGGS well, there are things that suck more...
14:17 JimmyZ shouldn't be self.p5unpack(CALLER::DYNAMIC::<$_>) ?
14:17 atroxaper joined #perl6
14:18 FROGGS yesterday I broke split(//,...) on the way of fixing something else, and my test_summary told me I'm going to pass 80 tests more, which was a false positive :o(
14:18 * JimmyZ knows nothing about it, just a guess.
14:18 FROGGS JimmyZ: right you are!
14:19 * FROGGS runs spectest
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14:26 colomon FROGGS: I've had situations where I spent a week or two tracking down and fixing a $work issue which seemed like it should have significant impact, only to run it against my full test suite of files and discover that, out of millions of faces, the only one it fixed was the one I was working on.  Or worse, it actually broke more things than it fixed.  :(
14:26 fridim_ joined #perl6
14:28 FROGGS :/
14:28 colomon It's not actually worse than having your family murdered by pirates, but it still sucks.
14:28 FROGGS that happens here often sadly
14:28 FROGGS right
14:29 tadzik ....what happens here often? Getting your family murdered by pirates?
14:29 [Coke] sorear: could you changes have made rakudo.jvm consume more memory?
14:29 [Coke] *your
14:30 FROGGS tadzik: no :P
14:31 [Coke] When I run the suite, I run it under: ulimit -t 300; ulimit -v 2048576
14:32 atroxaper left #perl6
14:32 colomon like this?  ulimit -t 300; ulimit -v 2048576; make spectest
14:37 [Coke] no; I'm using test_summary.
14:37 [Coke] here:
14:37 [Coke] https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/bin/rakudo.jvm.sh
14:38 dalek v5: 16d0c3a | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
14:38 dalek v5: dispatch .P5unpack() to .P5unpack($_), spotted by JimmyZ++
14:38 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/16d0c3a19d
14:40 timotimo no results for the tests?
14:41 dmol1 joined #perl6
14:42 timotimo aaw
14:42 FROGGS timotimo: no relevant changes
14:45 Ulti is there a standard POD notation you are meant to follow for your perl6 classes? so that docs can be auto generated/introspected?
14:46 xenoterracide joined #perl6
14:46 timotimo just put #| and #= based pod comments everywhere, no?
14:46 flussence =NAME, =AUTHOR, =VERSION
14:47 Ulti I meant more something to document methods and that sort of thing, so you have a description of what they are and for
14:47 flussence that would be the #= thing
14:47 Ulti k
14:48 PerlJam Ulti: See S26:284 for an example
14:49 PerlJam .oO( Does S26 render properly yet? )
14:49 benabik joined #perl6
14:50 tadzik properlier, thanks to timotimo++
14:50 timotimo PerlJam: http://t.h8.lv/S26-documentation.pod.html <- more or less
14:51 PerlJam timotimo++ nice
14:51 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
14:52 Ulti PerlJam: thanks, I was reading that as you posted ;)
14:52 timotimo tadzik: can you make a bit of time to help me get rid of the wrongness with the table cell serialisation? i really don't think i understand what's involved and what needs to be different
14:52 Ulti the fact I was reading the POD about POD made it a bit confusing :S
14:53 timotimo yeah, it looks like chaos in the source, but once you slog through the grammar (or the properly rendered version) it all starts making sense
14:53 timotimo another thing is that i implemented proper support for different formatting code delimiters, with multiple < or sinlge «
14:54 timotimo that should allow the pod source to become much nicer to look at
14:54 tadzik timotimo: sure, if I'll be able to :)
14:55 timotimo i'll wait for your ping
14:55 tadzik okay
14:55 tadzik it may be tomorrow :(
14:56 timotimo i'll just have to be strong and keep my fingers off for a day ;)
14:56 JimmyZ timotimo++, It's nicer
14:56 timotimo maybe i'll find something else in perl6 that needs fixing/implementing?
14:57 JimmyZ parse pod6 completely?
14:57 tadzik that way lies madness
14:57 xlat left #perl6
14:58 tadzik timotimo: typed arrays? :}
14:58 timotimo that way lies madness, too
14:58 PerlJam shaped arrays!  :)
14:58 JimmyZ S09 :D
14:58 timotimo madness has many franchises all over the semantic territory nowadays
14:58 tadzik hm
14:58 timotimo they even offer drive-in service
14:58 timotimo "madness in passing"
14:59 tadzik I know, I know, oh-oh-oh
14:59 tadzik look into select()/poll() on JVM :)
14:59 timotimo i think i may need to test my [..;..;..] changes a bit further.
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15:45 timotimo r: my $aref1 = (1, 2, 3); my $aref2 = [4, 5, 6]; my $multi2 = [ $aref1, $aref2 ]; say $multi2[0] ~~ Parcel; say $multi2[0] ~~ List; # why should this be wrong?
15:45 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
15:45 timotimo the tests seem to require the result to be a List rather than a Parcel and it's tagged as a nom regression
15:45 timotimo that doesn't make sense to me.
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15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 9880c7b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Small optimisation in creating pairs
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: No reason to copy things if we can alias them.
15:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9880c7b2d8
15:52 sergot joined #perl6
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15:57 timotimo my @a = <foo bar baz quux>; say @a[*];
15:57 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz quux>; say @a[*];
15:57 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«foo bar baz quux␤»
15:58 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz> <qx qux quux>; say @a[*][0];
15:58 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Alphanumeric character is not allowed as a delimiterâ�¤at /tmp/MP0ynTIixZ:1â�¤------> [32mmy @a = <foo bar baz> <qx [33mâ��[31mqux quux>; say @a[*][0];[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta…
15:58 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz>, <qx qux quux>; say @a[*][0];
15:58 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«foo␤»
15:58 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz>, <qx qux quux>; say @a[][0];
15:58 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«foo␤»
15:58 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz>, <qx qux quux>; say @a[0,1][0];
15:58 camelia rakudo d8a0e1: OUTPUT«foo␤»
15:58 timotimo hm.
15:59 timotimo locally, my @a = <foo bar baz>, <qx qux quux>; say @a[0,1;0]  # -> foo bar
15:59 timotimo should @a[*;0] behave just like 0,1 in this case?
16:01 timotimo i find the specs on this matter insufficiently slushed out, but i won't dare just tread onto pm's territory
16:05 dalek specs: 9e0e656 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
16:05 dalek specs: Added lemma for "gimme"
16:05 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/9e0e656627
16:06 lizmat which somebody could enlighten me on that, as the word "gimme" is not in the spec
16:06 lizmat specifically, what does gimme(*) mean?
16:06 [Coke] lemma?
16:06 timotimo "reify as many elements as you find sensible right now"?
16:07 lizmat [Coke]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headword
16:08 lizmat timotimo: but, would it make sense then to later do gimme(pos+1) ?
16:09 timotimo that question i cannot anscer
16:09 timotimo i thought gimme(n) was "please reify at least n more elements" rather than "please reify up to the elements up to the index n"
16:09 timotimo but i am absolutely not sure
16:15 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:16 masak o/, #perl6
16:17 Ulti if I have several "multi method new" defined do they all use the same BUILD submethod?
16:17 Ulti I'm having a hard time just having a different constructor for no params and a single positional parameter
16:18 Ulti do I need   multi method new (Nil)  ?
16:19 colomon multi method new ()
16:19 * Ulti notices ALL of his troubles go away when he doesn't specify int32
16:19 colomon dunno if you need it or not
16:20 colomon but you don't need or want the Nil, as far as I know.
16:20 abnorman joined #perl6
16:20 Ulti colomon the root problem is just the int32, are the native types immutable?
16:20 masak no, they're mutable.
16:20 Ulti hmmm
16:20 lizmat masak!
16:20 masak lizmat! \o/
16:21 masak r: my int $i = 0; say $i; $i = 32; say $i
16:21 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«0␤32␤»
16:21 masak mutable.
16:25 Ulti Cannot modify an immutable value Mt.pm:23 in block MT.pm:36  <-- only thing that changed was I gave   has int32 $.seed   instead of has   $.seed  https://gist.github.com/MattOates/5877912
16:25 Ulti I think I'm just being super dense
16:26 Ulti if I use $!seed things start to work out
16:28 Ulti also using 2013.05  R*
16:30 jnthn Well, $.foo means a readonly accessor
16:31 lizmat r: say $Inf
16:31 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
16:32 Ulti jnthn and because of that you would expect that code to work by changing int32 to Int?
16:32 Ulti because it does :S
16:32 * lizmat thinks $Inf is some kind of implementation leakage
16:33 jnthn Ulti: It'd need an "is rw". That doesn't owrk on natively typed attributes yet.
16:34 daxim http://enwp.org/Role_(computer_science)  http://enwp.org/Trait_(computer_programming)   what's the exact difference?
16:35 masak lizmat: yes. I guess it falls out of lexical scoping.
16:35 masak lizmat: ISTR '$Inf' was some temporary hack.
16:35 lizmat intentionally so, it seems
16:36 eternaleye joined #perl6
16:36 lizmat :# XXX: Temporary definition of $Inf and $NaN until we have constants ava
16:37 masak we do have constants ava
16:37 masak rn: say Inf.^name
16:37 camelia rakudo 9880c7, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«Num␤»
16:38 lizmat r: constant Inf = nqp::p6box_n(nqp::inf()); say Inf
16:38 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
16:38 lizmat r: constant Inf = nqp::p6box_n(nqp::inf()); say Inf.WHAT
16:38 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
16:39 lizmat so I guess I could fix that
16:40 pecastro joined #perl6
16:40 lizmat r: constant Inf := nqp::p6box_n(nqp::inf()); say Inf  # does binding make a difference?
16:40 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
16:42 dmol joined #perl6
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16:50 * [Coke] will do the daily rakudo.jvm run today with no memory ulimit and see what happens.
16:53 masak lizmat: the 'constant' declaration is essentially always a binding, IIUC. even if you use assignment in the syntax.
16:53 lizmat ok
16:55 nwc10 do we have enough points yet to make pretty graphs?
16:55 masak probably.
17:03 dalek specs: 2f382ff | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
17:03 dalek specs: Add IIUC lemma
17:03 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/2f382ff945
17:03 dalek specs: a17b887 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
17:03 dalek specs: Add ISTR lemma
17:03 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a17b88705e
17:05 masak hehe.
17:05 masak AFAIK, DIHWIDT. :)
17:06 kaleem joined #perl6
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17:07 lizmat DIHWIDT ??
17:10 masak "doctor, it hurts when I do this"
17:10 daxim DDG.GG ??
17:10 masak LMGTFY.
17:11 daxim bbq
17:11 lizmat sigh
17:11 daxim I got warnocked with my question about traits and roles
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17:12 masak daxim: roles in Perl 6 correspond more or less exactly to traits in Smalltalk.
17:12 masak the former is based on the latter.
17:12 daxim that doesn't help explain the distinction enwp makes
17:12 daxim is that in error?
17:12 masak the reason they were not called "traits" in Perl 6 is that that term was already taken for something else.
17:13 daxim aha
17:13 masak daxim: hold on, I'll skim the enwp links.
17:14 masak daxim: to be honest, I'm not 100% sure Perl 6 embodies a "role-oriented programming" paradigm.
17:14 masak at the very least, that's something someone would have to prove by listing what ROOP requires, and point-by-point what Perl 6 provides.
17:15 masak does that answer your question? :)
17:15 daxim hmmm
17:16 daxim the table in lemma Role_(computer_science) implies ROP is a subset of OOP
17:17 daxim I'm almost satisfied.  what are perl6 traits, then?
17:17 masak ...which was either never clearly defined, or defined too many times by too many people. :)
17:17 masak (OOP, that is)
17:17 masak daxim: Perl 6 traits are the things where you go 'is awesome' on some declaration, fsvo 'awesome'.
17:17 masak r: class A { has $.x is rw }; say "that 'is rw' is a trait"
17:17 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«that 'is rw' is a trait␤»
17:18 daxim is that the thing where you attach classnames to object instances?
17:18 daxim ah, to attributes
17:19 masak for example.
17:19 masak there's also 'is export' on subroutine declarations.
17:19 masak and 'is copy' on parameters.
17:19 masak and so on et cetera
17:19 daxim I'm intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter
17:20 masak :)
17:23 konundra joined #perl6
17:25 dalek specs: 5300d63 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
17:25 dalek specs: Add DIHWIDT, LMGTFY and warnocked
17:25 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/5300d63a82
17:28 * lizmat is sad:
17:28 lizmat Stage optimize   :  31.366
17:28 lizmat Code ref 'Numeric' does not exist in serialization context
17:32 lizmat this is the diff and the error: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/5878505
17:32 lizmat suggestions anyone?
17:36 timotimo it would seem your comparisons with == would cause that, no?
17:36 timotimo is there === in nqp?
17:36 timotimo r: say(1 === 1)
17:36 camelia rakudo 9880c7: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:36 timotimo maybe that'll work?
17:38 lizmat I actually changed a lot from === to ==, as I don't see why that in this case would make a difference
17:39 timotimo probably because it tries to coerce? :)
17:41 vk joined #perl6
17:46 * timotimo makes postcircumfix:<[ ]> aware of empty cells inside semilists
17:50 lizmat working on a patch
17:54 timotimo does it seem sensible for postcircumfix:<[ ]>(\SELF, LoL $foo) to get a Nil for empty cells?
17:55 timotimo it's not distinguishable from writing an actual literal Nil into the LoL
18:00 lizmat alas, replacing all == with === just gives another error, giving up for now
18:01 timotimo aaw :(
18:02 timotimo do you have intuition for the [ ] issue?
18:03 timotimo one: should @a[*;1] give a list of [@a[0, 1], @a[1, 1] ... @a[+@a, 1]]?
18:03 timotimo two: should @a[*][1] give that same result?
18:04 timotimo thr: should @a[;1] behave like the proposed solution for @a[*;1] above?
18:05 berekuk joined #perl6
18:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 6eab1e9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/control.pm:
18:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Some error message corrections
18:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6eab1e9f48
18:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 55025c5 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/control.pm:
18:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Leave note for other people trying to use Inf/NaN as constants
18:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/55025c51be
18:07 lizmat timotimo: I have no idea
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18:16 ssutch joined #perl6
18:17 ssutch hallo #perl6
18:18 lelf joined #perl6
18:19 timotimo hey ssutch
18:19 ssutch hallo timotimo
18:20 timotimo http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-06-27#i_7259945 - may i ask you to provide an opinion?
18:21 kaleem joined #perl6
18:22 ssutch yikes
18:22 ssutch [@a[0, 1], @a[1, 1] ... @a[+@a, 1]]
18:22 dalek specs: a8ed7cf | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S29-functions.pod:
18:22 dalek specs: Specify "interval" function
18:22 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a8ed7cf730
18:22 timotimo For all multidimensional array types, it is expected that cascaded subscripts: [...] will either fail or produce the same results as the equivalent semicolon subscripts: [...]
18:23 ssutch ^ does that mean a list composed of elements 0, 1 from @a?
18:23 colomon ssutch: not in perl 6...
18:24 [Coke] rakudo.pvm still failing 29 tests.
18:25 [Coke] S06-macros/opaque-ast.rakudo ; S06-macros/quasi-blocks.t ; S06-macros/unquoting.t
18:25 ssutch timotimo, unfortunately i dont know
18:25 timotimo er, i mistyped pretty horribly
18:25 timotimo apologies
18:26 ssutch not sure what a cascaded subscript or a semicolon subscript is
18:26 timotimo it was meant to read [@a[0][1], @a[1][1] ... @a[+@a][1]]
18:26 ssutch ahh
18:26 timotimo cascaded subscript is like what i wrote one line up ^
18:26 timotimo semicolon subscript is the same with ][ replaced by ;
18:26 ssutch ok, simple enough
18:27 ssutch in that case, what you propose seems reasonable
18:27 ssutch i especially like the 2nd syntax @a[*][1] - seems pretty obvious whta you're trying to do
18:28 timotimo good
18:28 ssutch and so does @a[*;1] - now that i know what a semicolon subscript is
18:28 timotimo because that's what i just implemented
18:28 timotimo how do you feel about @a[;1]? the specs say @a[1] is the same as @a[1;]
18:28 timotimo so it would only make sense that @a[;1] is also the same as @a[*;1]
18:28 ssutch what is @a[1;] ?
18:28 pecastro_ joined #perl6
18:29 ssutch @a[1;*]?
18:29 Stygia joined #perl6
18:29 ssutch if so, that makes sense enough
18:29 Stygia joined #perl6
18:29 ssutch what ever happened to your pod parsing for rakudo?
18:30 groky joined #perl6
18:31 * colomon is engaging in therapeutic p6 coding
18:31 ssutch FROGGS, pmichaud, moritz: anyone have a quick tuit to merge this PR or request changes: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/170
18:32 pullphing joined #perl6
18:32 FROGGS ssutch: I'm not the right guy for that, sorry
18:32 ssutch FROGGS: no problem :)
18:37 dmol1 joined #perl6
18:37 lizmat ssutch: I'm afraid I can't oversee the consequences either
18:38 ssutch that's cool
18:39 timotimo ssutch: i'm waiting for tadzik to help me with a tremendously hairy (at least to me) issue and then we may end up getting formatting codes in cells parsed
18:39 athomason joined #perl6
18:49 timotimo and if that works, we may even end up with working :allow for code blocks
18:51 FROGGS timotimo: I mentioned that the quote language does the same? :P
18:52 timotimo yes, and i didn't really figure out how to translate that knowledg over
18:52 FROGGS :/
18:53 FROGGS well, have you spotted the 'tweak' methods?
18:53 timotimo no, don't think so
18:54 timotimo tadzik suggested to stub out the formatting code parsing in the grammar and parse them "in post"
18:55 pullphing left #perl6
18:55 FROGGS I think I would make tokens for the things to allow/disallow, like for C<...>
18:55 FROGGS then I would put these tokens in a role
18:55 timotimo i don't think that'll fly
18:55 FROGGS and if it sees a :allow rule, it would mix the right roles in
18:56 timotimo there's also =config C<> :allow
18:56 FROGGS hmmm, I dont know much about pod6...
18:56 timotimo ;)
18:56 timotimo it's easy to allow/disallow single formatting codes with a bitfield
18:57 timotimo so i don't think i need to create complicated roles, especially if they end up making combinations of classes+roles at run-time and thet could be slow
18:57 FROGGS from seeing your pastes it looks like you are doing too much in a single token...
18:57 FROGGS that is not runtime
18:58 timotimo not slow as in "i want to prematurely optimize this!" but as in "prohibitively slow"
18:58 FROGGS maybe, yeah
19:00 timotimo https://github.com/timo/rakudo/compare/pod6-improvements
19:02 yoleaux joined #perl6
19:03 timotimo it looks like much, but it's only a few things :|
19:04 FROGGS yeah, not too bad
19:04 colomon rn: my $a = (a => 4, b => 12).Bag; my $b = (a => 1, c => 2).Bag; $a (+)= $b; say $a
19:04 camelia niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«bag("a" => 5, "b" => 12, "c" => 2)␤»
19:04 camelia ..rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/gvCwivAvgU:1â�¤------> [32m).Bag; my $b = (a => 1, c => 2).Bag; $a [33mâ��[31m(+)= $b; say $a[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤â€¦
19:04 colomon rn: my $a = (a => 4, b => 12).Bag; my $b = (a => 1, c => 2).Bag; $a = $a (+) $b; say $a
19:04 camelia rakudo 55025c, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«bag("a" => 5, "b" => 12, "c" => 2)␤»
19:04 colomon rakudobug
19:04 timotimo what really blows up is when i try to come up with a way to allow code text blocks to contain formatting codes
19:05 * colomon wonders if the masak bot is around.  ;)
19:05 timotimo also, strange weirdness hapens when i try to call back from src/Perl6/Pod.nqp to the grammar
19:06 FROGGS timotimo: what do you mean by "call back to the grammar"
19:06 FROGGS ?
19:06 lizmat alas, the masak bot seems to be absent :-)
19:07 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/543f7b8b791cbd617b71 like that, FROGGS
19:07 yoleaux joined #perl6
19:11 FROGGS sounds like you have to box something, but I dont know what
19:11 timotimo box or perhaps serialize?
19:11 timotimo weird thing is: nothing i put there is different from when the rule is entered normally
19:12 timotimo i just give it a string to be parsed
19:12 dalek perl6-roast-data: ea81904 | coke++ | / (4 files):
19:12 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:12 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/ea81904ae8
19:12 FROGGS box I guess
19:12 [Coke] the memory limit seems to be the issue. I left in a time limit so we don't completely go out into the weeds.
19:13 [Coke] (rakudo.jvm)
19:13 [Coke] # 06/27/2013 d770a94 rakudo++ (25969); niecza (82.09%); pugs (36.6%); rakudo.jvm (78.13%)
19:13 Vlavv_ joined #perl6
19:13 timotimo oooooooh yeah!
19:13 timotimo (did rakudo regress even further? :P)
19:14 [Coke] no, rakudo is holding steady at 29 failures.
19:14 timotimo that's a mazing
19:14 [Coke] 508 more passes for rakudo.jvm to hit 80%, assuming rakudo.pvm recovers.
19:15 dalek ecosystem: 988e978 | segomos++ | META.list:
19:15 dalek ecosystem: Update META.list
19:15 dalek ecosystem:
19:15 dalek ecosystem: changed CSV::Parser to github repo instead of shitbucket
19:15 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/988e9783cb
19:15 timotimo the diff is too big to be displayed on github. sounds good to me :)
19:16 timotimo shitbucket? wow, that's kind of harsh
19:16 timotimo huh, it seems like you added a header for the latest change, but no details?
19:17 timotimo oh, the diff is only so huge because of the gigantig regression in between
19:17 [Coke] you can manually compare to the revision before that
19:19 * PerlJam wonders what people have against bitbucket
19:19 timotimo i've done that
19:19 timotimo interesting, lots of regex tests files cancel too early because java chokes on unknown unicode stuff
19:20 timotimo +java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Unknown character property name {Arabic} near index 9
19:24 konundra joined #perl6
19:29 colomon Does DateTime parse things like this? Sun Jun 9 23:10:56 2013 -0400
19:30 lizmat in p5 or p6 ?
19:30 colomon p6
19:30 masak no.
19:30 masak nor should it, IMO.
19:30 colomon why not?
19:30 masak that's ecosystem stuff.
19:31 masak it's culturally dependent enough not to be a core concern.
19:31 [Coke] sorear++ #moar jvm passes
19:31 [Coke] I could see core dates having to be iso dates, even.
19:31 masak *nod*
19:31 masak that's basically what we have.
19:31 masak DateTime proper parses ISO 8601 datetimes.
19:32 segomos PerlJam: i like bitbucket but my module isn't getting added to the list
19:33 PerlJam segomos: It might be because the parser is biased towards github.
19:33 colomon grumble, grumble, I can parse it myself, I suppose.
19:33 [Coke] colomon: ... and put it in a module! ;)
19:34 colomon [Coke]: it's one line that doesn't do anything useful other than let me extract the year.
19:35 segomos PerlJam: yea that's what i was thinking too so i added github repo to my list of where to push to and i'm testing that theory
19:36 sorear o/
19:37 colomon \o
19:37 lizmat sorear!   78%+
19:37 [Coke] r: "axe bat cat".wordcase.say
19:37 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«Axe Bat Cat␤»
19:37 [Coke] on the jvm, that outputs the original string.
19:42 sorear something cheap we could do to get a lot more JVM passes:
19:42 PerlJam segomos: start reading at https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/blob/master/web/lib/P6Project/Info.pm#L47
19:42 PerlJam :-)
19:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 437d5e2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/List.pm:
19:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Simplify .elems, we have $Inf!
19:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/437d5e2b57
19:43 PerlJam where does the output of build-project-list.pl go when it runs? A page with the latest output might help people (like segomos) diagnose problems.
19:44 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/5879701 - top "this test file won't run" for rakudo.jvm
19:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 2b77d6d | sorear++ | t/harness:
19:44 dalek rakudo/nom: JVM does not need ICU for any tests
19:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2b77d6dcd0
19:45 [Coke] ah, that'll at least try to run more of them. nice.
19:45 segomos PerlJam: nice find !
19:46 segomos what's going on with github right now..i keep getting an angry unicorn
19:47 [Coke] r: print 28690-27844
19:47 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«846»
19:47 [Coke] so, that'll try that many more tests max.
19:48 [Coke] sorear: I don't think that impacts test_summary.
19:48 lizmat r: my @a= 0,[1,2],3; my @b=<a b c d>; say @b[@a] # not sure what to expect
19:48 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«a c d␤»
19:48 [Coke] hurm, it might.
19:49 lizmat r: my @a= 0,[1,2,1],3; my @b=<a b c d>; say @b[@a] # not sure what to expect
19:49 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«a d d␤»
19:49 timotimo sorear: java hardfails if it doesn't find a unicode class thingie it seems
19:49 lizmat r: my @a= 0,[1,2,1],3; say @a.flat
19:49 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«0 1 2 1 3␤»
19:49 masak lizmat: that rhymes with what I expect, fwiw.
19:50 masak lizmat: Array != LoL
19:50 colomon masak!  \o/
19:50 timotimo +java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Unknown character block name {ArabicPresentationFormsA} near index 29
19:50 masak colomon! \o/
19:50 timotimo and then it says +   660 tests aborted (missing ok/not ok)
19:50 xilo_ compiling rakudo froze my VM :(
19:50 lizmat the thing is that postcircumfix[] is doing a .flat on the positions passed
19:50 masak xilo_: how much memory does your VM have available?
19:50 xilo_ 1.5gb
19:51 lizmat r: my @a= 0,[1,2,1],3; my $a = @a.flat; say $a.map( { $_ } ).eager.Parcel
19:51 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«0 1 2 1 3␤»
19:52 lizmat hmmm
19:53 [Coke] timotimo: looks like java 7 should support unicode 6.0 - is ArabicPresentationFormsA newer?
19:53 jnthn Which tests is tht, ooc?
19:54 * jnthn guesses one of the S05-mass prop ones
19:54 [Coke] S05-mass/properties-block.t
19:55 [Coke] does perl6 have a way to say which version of unicode it's currently supporting?
19:56 [Coke] because that would be awesome for properly fudging tests.
19:57 masak [Coke]: I don't know about any such mechanism.
19:58 [Coke] seems like it would be nice, no?
19:58 * jnthn tries to take a look at it
19:58 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz>, <qx qux quux>; say @a[*][0];  #  should this be what it is?
19:58 camelia rakudo 55025c: OUTPUT«foo␤»
19:58 [Coke] jnthn++
19:59 timotimo and if so, should @a[*;0] be the same thing?
19:59 [Coke] my suspicion is that we're testing something that doesn't exist in the jvm's version of unicode.
20:00 masak timotimo: it should return <foo qx>, for sure.
20:01 PerlJam timotimo: and @a[*;0] should be the same as @a[*][0] according to my mental model of things
20:01 timotimo the second one, for sure. the first one, though?
20:02 timotimo i mean i know why [*][0] does what it does
20:03 timotimo and i don't know how to make it work properly without internally parsing multiple postcircumfix:<[ ]> as a single [] with a semilist inside
20:03 timotimo (in that case i suppose you can still use [*].[0] if you want the "old" behaviour)
20:05 sorear [Coke]: I wonder if it might work better to edit perl6 and add -Xmx400m or something
20:05 [Coke] sorear: sure, probably. the ulimit stuff was a straight ripoff of how pugs did it
20:06 [Coke] anyone wants to tackle that, I'd love a pull request.
20:06 sorear pull request to what?  I don't see a ulimit in test_summary
20:06 timotimo maybe it's in the perl6 "script"?
20:08 timotimo it could be that that only works if you declare a shaped array? ("that" being making @a[...][...][...] behave exactly like [...;...;...])
20:08 dalek nqp: b20fe7e | sorear++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/jast2bc/AutosplitMethodWriter.java:
20:08 dalek nqp: Turn off autosplit debug output, colomon++
20:08 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b20fe7e9d4
20:11 jnthn Seems it's a canonicalization issue
20:12 [Coke] sorear: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/bin/rakudo.jvm.sh
20:18 * sorear is hopeful we'll pass 80% today
20:18 nwc10 and start on the second 80%? :-)
20:19 timotimo at this pace, it could totally be doable in another week or two
20:19 nwc10 anyway, progess is awesome. Thanks for all your hard work (and jnthn's too, and everyone else)
20:21 [Coke] sorear: today already ran. tomorrow. :)
20:21 [Coke] oh, right, not the official one, nevermind.
20:22 [Coke] s/official/github/
20:23 * colomon thinks there's a 100 ripe for the plucking in fatrat.t...
20:26 [Coke] colomon: doooo it.
20:27 colomon [Coke]: gotta $work and take care of my family.
20:31 dalek nqp: 3cfa6c3 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
20:31 dalek nqp: Canonicalize property names for Java regex \p{...}
20:31 dalek nqp:
20:31 dalek nqp: This is enough to get S05-mass/properties-block.t running.
20:31 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3cfa6c384a
20:31 jnthn That takes that file from 10 tests before exploding to getting through all 670.
20:31 nwc10 awesone
20:31 nwc10 er, awesome
20:31 timotimo 660 more attempted tests!
20:32 jnthn Passing, even :)
20:32 timotimo and they all work?
20:32 timotimo amazing!
20:32 jnthn There's one skip in there
20:32 jnthn Dunno if JVM needs it
20:34 [Coke] jnthn: that's probably actually 4 test files.
20:34 timotimo that puts us just above 80%
20:35 nwc10 quick, somebody write more (spec)tests
20:35 timotimo (even if rakudo unregresses)
20:35 [Coke] timotimo: try s05-mass/properties-{block,derived,general,script}
20:35 jnthn [Coke]: No, derived/genera/script still explode
20:36 timotimo [Coke]: will do
20:36 lue hello world o/
20:36 lizmat lue!
20:36 timotimo oh, sad to hear that
20:36 timotimo but it's all still pretty awesome!
20:36 xilo_ has anyone got rakudo installed on arch? i've tried the aur package but it fails with some error while building. i tried editing the package to gen-parrot and gen-nqp so i can use git version, but get weird ass permission errors
20:37 timotimo "you don't have ass permissions"
20:37 arlinius joined #perl6
20:38 xilo_ <_<
20:40 xilo_ seriously
20:47 sorear timotimo: "at this pace"?  looks like we just passed 80 a few minutes ago :D
20:47 colomon sorear++
20:47 xilo joined #perl6
20:47 colomon jnthn++
20:50 preflex joined #perl6
20:51 flussence .oO( at this rate we'll be passing 150% of the spectests by august )
20:52 timotimo sorear: yes, we've passed 80%, even if the rakudo regression is fixed
20:54 sorear flussence: I made that joke last week
20:55 jnthn .oO( at this rate we'll have made 150% of the jokes by September )
20:55 sorear and probably sometime in july we'll need to think  about JStart
20:55 sorear JStar
20:58 flussence side question: will JVM/Moar do anything to change the thing now where I have to remember to update $PATH every time there's a parrot version change to keep panda working?
20:58 timotimo oh, my. java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: sprintf only accepts ints, nums, and strs, not class __P6opaque__62 - missing some unboxing somewhere?
20:58 jnthn timotimo: No, missing a proper sprintf implementation, but masak++ has been working on that
20:59 timotimo ah, we've been using the one provided by parrot or something?
20:59 jnthn yeah
20:59 timotimo that makes a whole lot of sense
21:00 flussence that annoyed me early on, when I tried to use a format string with '%1$s' in it and ended up digging in the code to see why it wouldn't work... the parrot one never did get fixed
21:02 timotimo Method 'submethod_table' not found - does that sound like LHF?
21:04 dalek nqp: 48d9276 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
21:04 dalek nqp: Handle Unicode script properties.
21:04 dalek nqp:
21:04 dalek nqp: Gets S05-mass/properties-script.t to pass to the same degree as on
21:04 dalek nqp: Rakudo Parrot.
21:04 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/48d9276b13
21:04 jnthn timotimo: It sounds...weird
21:04 jnthn > 300 or so more passes there
21:05 timotimo t/spec/S04-declarations/my.rakudo.jvm - this is where it happens, but it' sonly worth 11 more attempted tests in this file.
21:05 autumn joined #perl6
21:05 dalek specs: 2eb828a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
21:05 dalek specs: Add lemma LHF
21:05 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/2eb828a6dd
21:06 berekuk joined #perl6
21:07 bruges_ joined #perl6
21:12 masak oh, there's no definition of "lexotic"? that's a shame, it's fairly well-defined in S04.
21:12 masak in short: "a dynamic operation with a lexically scoped target".
21:13 masak for example, "return" is lexotic. why? because it has a dynamic effect (it peels back the stack), but the thing it's returning *from* (the surrounding routine) is a lexically delimited thing.
21:14 timotimo i think this is the first time i understand lexotic.
21:14 masak the loop controllers like 'next' and 'last' are also lexotic.
21:14 masak timotimo: \o/
21:14 timotimo i didn't understand it when someone told me about lexotic take
21:14 lizmat masak: patches welcome!
21:17 dalek specs: b24e94b | masak++ | S99-glossary.pod:
21:17 dalek specs: [S99] explain lexotic
21:17 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/b24e94b745
21:17 dalek v5: 9b30933 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/warnings.pm:
21:17 dalek v5: added FATAL
21:17 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/9b30933b44
21:17 dalek v5: c2a8429 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
21:17 dalek v5: added .P5[ ](int), I hope that it gains speed
21:17 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/c2a8429ec7
21:17 dalek v5: 0e3b756 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
21:17 dalek v5: support ${x}-variables and fix for-loop var declaration
21:17 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/0e3b7562d7
21:22 sorear FROGGS: have you tried using multi subs instead of methods for the P5stuff?  Seems advantageous to not pollute the global namespace
21:23 snoopy joined #perl6
21:23 FROGGS sorear: but I would directly pollute nested perl6 blocks when I'd use subs
21:24 sorear also, compile time multi dispatch with the optimizer
21:26 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
21:26 masak philosophical question: isn't the idea of "methods" -- attaching behavior to (classes of) data -- fairly weird?
21:26 FROGGS I think it more likely that someone would call a sub by accident, then a method starting with P5 on classes like Any
21:27 FROGGS masak: hmm, no?
21:27 [Coke] masak: not after this many years of OO programming, no.
21:27 FROGGS attaching behaviour to things it pretty nice, not weird
21:28 masak Google Go presents an interesting alternative, if you ask me.
21:28 masak it doesn't really have methods. it just makes it look like it does.
21:28 flussence s/presents/stole from p5/ :P
21:28 FROGGS can you explain?
21:29 masak FROGGS: best I can do is probably link to some tutorial somewhere that explains it.
21:29 FROGGS hmmm, okay, I can google that by myself :o)
21:30 masak FROGGS: here: http://golang.org/ref/spec#Method_expressions
21:30 masak note how the methods are outside of the struct.
21:30 tadzik because they are not "struct" things
21:30 tadzik you can define methods on any type
21:30 flussence hm, I think D works in a similar way...
21:31 masak right. they are not data.
21:31 tadzik like, function types
21:31 masak which means that methods are added extensively, like an open set. and so they are in fact more like functions, even if golang calls them methods.
21:32 masak I... I think I like it.
21:32 tadzik I really like Go. And I have the wicked satisfaction, that their module system is light years behind Perl 6
21:32 tadzik maybe I expect too much of it
21:33 masak in what sense is it lightyears behind?
21:34 tadzik it has a list of github repos, nothing else
21:34 timotimo we have a list of github repos and nothing else, too :P
21:34 tadzik you're looking for a library? Which one to pick? Well, good luck looking
21:34 timotimo they probably even have 100x as many as us? :)
21:34 tadzik it's like googling for java libraries, pretty much
21:34 tadzik timotimo: about 10x :)
21:34 timotimo oh, you mean panda
21:35 tadzik but we have smoketests
21:35 tadzik badges
21:35 timotimo indeed we do
21:35 tadzik you know what to expect
21:36 Timbus joined #perl6
21:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 3e58687 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
21:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Make []:(kv|p|k|v) work according to spec
21:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3e586874ab
21:43 * lue likes Perl 6 for not having "use Math;"
21:44 * lizmat has done enough commits for today, sleep&
21:45 FROGGS gnight lizmat
21:45 timotimo lue: agreed. math is way too useful to push it into some weird namespace
21:45 lue good ♞ lizmat o/
21:45 timotimo although it would be neat if the compiler could throw away unused things or something
21:45 timotimo if that even makes sense in the architecture of rakudo
21:46 lue .oO(Strangely, Go also has "use fmt;")
21:46 lue timotimo: but how can else can I rely on eval(prompt("Enter a Perl 6 command: ")) ‽
21:47 timotimo lue: eval would of course throw that out
21:48 lue .oO( fine then.    qqx"perl6 -e '{prompt("Enter a Perl 6 comand: ")}'" )
21:48 timotimo qqx is eval, too.
21:49 FROGGS nope
21:49 FROGGS that is shell execute
21:50 dalek nqp: 4bcbdc6 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
21:50 dalek nqp: More canonicalizations.
21:50 dalek nqp:
21:50 dalek nqp: Gets us most of S05-mass/properties-general.t (runs all that Rakudo
21:50 dalek nqp: Parrot does, but 4 fail).
21:50 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4bcbdc6b71
21:50 jnthn Another > 500.
21:50 timotimo whoa.
21:50 FROGGS cool!
21:57 dalek v5: 3698c7b | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
21:57 dalek v5: let +@array return the number of elements
21:57 dalek v5: review: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/commit/3698c7b981
21:57 FROGGS r: say (97700 / 40515) ~ '%'
21:57 camelia rakudo 2b77d6: OUTPUT«2.411453%␤»
22:08 benabik joined #perl6
22:10 timotimo http://pythex.org/ - such a tool for perl6 should be very doable, no?
22:10 timotimo (once we get the js backend, even easier!)
22:10 [Coke] jnthn: RAWR
22:12 Guest1337 joined #perl6
22:12 shachaf_ joined #perl6
22:12 shachaf_ joined #perl6
22:15 jnthn Unfortunately, the remaining one - for derived properties - is kinda harder.
22:22 lue timotimo: emacs comes with one for elisp too (which there is *very* helpful)
22:23 timotimo the coolest way to do such a thing surely is Rakudo::Debugger anyway :)
22:24 lue .oO(There'd be a lot more modifier buttons under the P6 regex input)
22:26 timotimo no, there would be not. there would be an input field before the /.
22:26 dalek perl6-roast-data: 91a30ed | coke++ | bin/rakudo.jvm.sh:
22:26 dalek perl6-roast-data: ignore memory limits for now
22:26 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/91a30ed527
22:33 Chillance joined #perl6
22:33 sorear jnthn: howso?
22:33 masak 'night, #perl6
22:34 jnthn sorear: They don't appear to be represented directly in any of the built-ins.
22:35 timotimo i'm supposed to be programming something entirely different, but my head is generating lots of ideas for a web frontend to perl6 grammars :|
22:35 timotimo hey, how good is perlito6's grammar support?
22:39 timotimo apparently ... zero
22:40 timotimo that's pretty weak if it's supposed to be "finished" :(
22:42 sorear timotimo: pmurias is gsoccing a rakudo-js backend
22:42 sorear if he fails, I'll do it
22:43 [Coke] I don't think perlito6 is "finished". where did you see that?
22:45 jnthn .oO( what *won't* sorear++ do?! :D )
22:45 timotimo i think i saw it in lizmats talk about the perl6 diaspora?
22:45 [Coke] timotimo: I think if perlito6 was finished, I'd be spectesting it.
22:45 * jnthn heard the same as timotimo somewhere
22:45 jnthn It's possible we heard it from the same source ;)
22:47 sorear [Coke]: do you still spectest pugs? :p
22:48 timotimo i think it was supposed to only cover a limited subset of perl6 and perl5 respectively
22:48 timotimo and it reached that
22:52 timotimo I'll be bumping to latest pygments very soon, so we'll see this in shortly.
22:52 timotimo YYYYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAHHHH
22:53 timotimo \m/ pÿgṁëṅtṡ.ṙḃ \m/
22:54 sorear ṗẏġṁėṅṫṡ.ṙḃ?
22:55 flussence .oO( shouldn't that be :ṙḃ? )
22:59 timotimo (heavy metal umlauts everywhere!)
23:02 [Coke] sorear: yes.
23:02 [Coke] I'm trying to get all 4 tests running on the same box.
23:02 [Coke] (pugs, niecza, rakudo, rakudo.jvm)
23:10 colomon Files=739, Tests=24123, 697 wallclock secs ( 4.22 usr  0.80 sys + 20.09 cusr  4.14 csys = 29.25 CPU)
23:10 colomon !!!!!!!
23:12 ssutch joined #perl6
23:13 timotimo wait. what. how?
23:13 timotimo that's 93%!?!
23:14 [Coke] that's tests run, not passed.
23:15 [Coke] no?
23:16 [Coke] ah, that's after all jnthn++'s updates?
23:17 [Coke] r: print 24123-20291 -
23:17 camelia rakudo 3e5868: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/8wu2z_AqRf:1â�¤------> [32mprint 24123-20291 -[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤Â»
23:17 [Coke] r: print 24123-20291
23:17 camelia rakudo 3e5868: OUTPUT«3832»
23:17 [Coke] has to be more than that, I think - that's a 3.8K difference in passing tests vs. the run earlier today.
23:26 timotimo 3.8K more tests passed?
23:29 [Coke] Based soley on colomon's send above. no clue.
23:30 Guest1337 joined #perl6
23:31 flussence heh... I just did `make spectest` and it freaked out because I didn't have File::Slurp:from<perl5> installed
23:40 sorear could change that to use only core modules I guess
23:40 * sorear uses File::Slurp in everything he writes pretty much
23:40 timotimo what's so special about that compared to regular slurp from perl6
23:40 flussence ...it runs in perl5?
23:41 flussence sorear: don't worry about it - I found it more odd that I *didn't* already have it installed
23:42 daniel-s__ joined #perl6
23:42 timotimo er.
23:42 timotimo i meant regular slurp from perl5
23:43 timotimo are they not the same?
23:43 flussence the main difference is File::Slurp exists and slurp doesn't
23:44 sorear timotimo: p5 doesn't *have* a slurp builtin
23:45 timotimo it ... it does not?
23:45 sorear timotimo: you can either use File::Slurp, or you can do the open, $/=undef, readline, close || die $! dance
23:45 sorear no, it doesn't.
23:49 timotimo :o
23:49 timotimo perl6 is a nice place.
23:51 flussence and yeah, those are definitely "tests run" and not "tests passed" - I'm watching a few hundred fails scroll by
23:53 flussence Files=739, Tests=21324, 1317 wallclock secs ( 7.35 usr  0.46 sys + 29.14 cusr  3.25 csys = 40.20 CPU)
23:54 timotimo that's a couple less
23:54 timotimo ah, that's the mysterious 3k
23:55 flussence my nqp was using whatever commit the parrot build was on, that's probably why
23:55 * flussence updates
23:57 timotimo maybe
23:59 sorear yeah, there's an nqp fix that allows it to compile very 'long' subs
23:59 sorear it still has issues with subs that have more than about 3,000 local variables

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