Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-07-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:13 sorear we really should never ever ever call serialize_sc more than once on the same sc
00:13 sorear instead of caching the result, we should cache a flag and croak if someone tries to call it again
00:13 jnthn That's why I used two separate processees to cross-comp :P
00:18 pmurias sorear: so I should cache the serialization on the QAST::CompUnit level?
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00:18 pmurias sorear: when cross compiling I need to have the serialized sc in both backends
00:19 jnthn pmurias: Why not do the two-process approach like every previous port? ;)
00:19 pmurias every previous = jvm,moarvm?
00:20 pmurias jnthn: I could hack around it that way, but I think cross compiling is important enought to do it properly
00:21 jnthn pmurias: yes ;)
00:22 pmurias r: my $foo = BEGIN {(1..10).pick(1)};say($foo)
00:22 camelia rakudo 6c80bf: OUTPUT«6␤»
00:22 timotimo jnthn: https://github.com/timo/rakudo/tree/nodal/ - if you'd like to implement the derivation logic for "is nodal", here's code that should, in theory, work properly for every case you throw at it
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00:32 pmurias g'night
00:32 jnthn 'night
00:32 jnthn timotimo: OK, I look in the morning :)
00:34 timotimo good night jnthn :)
00:38 jnthn o/
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02:37 [Coke] are we sure that titlecase of ßß is Ssß ?
02:37 [Coke] (and can we find a URL to back that up for the roast test?)
02:47 timotimo there is no ß at the beginning of words in german at least
02:49 timotimo but i also don't know of any words that start with ss.
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03:16 labster my dictionary helpfully suggested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssam
03:17 labster although http://de.wikipedia.org/wi​ki/Koreanische_K%C3%BCche spells it 'ssam'/'Ssam'
03:19 sorear Sssssss!
03:19 sorear Ssh!
03:20 sorear oh, that's more usually Shh!
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03:32 lue [Coke]: the titlecase of ßß is clearly ẞß :)
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03:46 avuserow rn: say 1_000_000
03:46 camelia rakudo 6c80bf, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«1000000␤»
03:46 * avuserow is glad that's still a thing
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04:11 diakopter avuserow: hey
04:11 avuserow hey diakopter, how goes?
04:12 diakopter ok
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06:41 dukeleto o/
06:43 sorear o/
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08:03 FROGGS o/
08:05 sorear o/
08:10 labster o/
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09:29 moritz u ẞ
09:29 moritz .u ẞ
09:29 yoleaux U+1E9E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S [Lu] (ẞ)
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10:05 * jnthn ponders nodal a little
10:07 dalek nqp/cached-serialization: a1783a1 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/ (2 files):
10:07 dalek nqp/cached-serialization: Add a QAST::CompUnit.serialize_sc, which serializes the sc on the first use, and subsequently returns that value.
10:07 dalek nqp/cached-serialization: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a1783a18a1
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10:08 pmurias jnthn: ^^ that branch solves my problem
10:14 jnthn TimToady: We could allow "is nodal" on a class as a kind of class-wide defualt, a bit like we allow 'is rw' on a class to imply it on all attributes.
10:14 jnthn TimToady: That'd save making Iterable special :)
10:16 jnthn I think we want it so that all relevant methods end up with a "nodal" marker.
10:16 jnthn Rather than hard-coding looking at types
10:17 jnthn I suspect we have enough bits already
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10:18 pmurias jnthn: so do you we want to merge the cached-serialization branch?
10:18 jnthn (to store it without making sub any bigger)
10:19 jnthn pmurias: Something feels wrong, but I can't put my finger on what just yet...
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10:21 pmurias jnthn: maybe I should split the method up into has_serialized_sc,serialize_sc,serialized_sc?
10:24 pmurias jnthn: or do you mean in a does something crazy way, rather then it being a matter of style
10:25 pmurias food&
10:34 dalek nqp: 655b7da | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/HLL/sprintf.nqp:
10:34 dalek nqp: Refactor a tad.
10:34 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/655b7da2f6
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10:35 colomon \o
10:38 dalek roast: 1260840 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S02-types/ (2 files):
10:38 dalek roast: Refudge and tweak typed Bag/KeyBag tests.
10:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/12608404ac
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11:02 arnsholt o/ colomon
11:03 colomon \o
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11:45 pmurias jnthn: does have_we_serialized_sc/serialize_sc/sc_string_heap (sc_sh) seem better?
11:59 jnthn QAST nodes are meant to be, well, nodes.
12:00 jnthn This patch puts a method on it
12:00 jnthn That does compilation stuff
12:00 jnthn The exact details of how we serialize should really be left to the backend.
12:08 pmurias jnthn: the problem is that currently QAST::Compiler gets damaged by the backend
12:08 pmurias * QAST::CompUnit
12:08 pmurias jnthn: as we can only extract the info from the sc once
12:09 jnthn Yes, you're only meant to do it once, but you decided to do things differntly. :/
12:09 jnthn How about you subclass the Parrot QAST::Compiler?
12:10 jnthn And override a method somewhere to keep things around as you wish
12:10 jnthn Then once things self-host on JavaScript it can be thrown away.
12:16 dalek nqp/cached-serialization: 2bb2232 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/ (2 files):
12:16 dalek nqp/cached-serialization: Serialize the sc only when explicitly told to.
12:16 dalek nqp/cached-serialization: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2bb2232b9c
12:21 pmurias jnthn: if we treat this as a temporary solution, I could just monkey path QAST::Compiler or use a branch
12:22 pmurias jnthn: what I'm concerned is that it might be usefull to keep the ability to cross compile even after the bootstrap
12:24 pmurias if for example the parsing on one the jvm is significantly faster then on js
12:26 pmurias jnthn: or if we are compling to something like ARM
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12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: ebb29be | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/RakOps.java:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement type checking return values.
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ebb29bed98
12:45 pmurias jnthn: instead of adding methods to a QAST node we could store things like $comp_unit<sc_sh> := ...
12:45 jnthn No, I don't think it should be stored in the node.
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12:46 jnthn pmurias: Maybe some contextual that, if there, can be used.
12:54 pmurias jnthn: we could mixin a role, if you are concered about tangling up concerns in the code
12:55 pmurias jnthn: if you are concerned that the data doesn't belong in the node, it's already there (in the $!sc), just in a form that's annoying to use
12:57 pmurias jnthn: and currently the only way to extract stuff from the sc is to serialize it so we aren't making any choice for the backend
12:58 dalek nqp: 754bc44 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
12:58 dalek nqp: Tweak nqp::backtrace() to give VM coderef back.
12:58 dalek nqp:
12:58 dalek nqp: This is what the usage of it in Rakudo expects. Gets us passing a
12:58 dalek nqp: good bit more of S32-exceptions/misc.t.
12:58 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/754bc4426e
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13:03 jnthn pmurias: Well, I got the impression something a bit more interesting must be going on over on the jVM port, given it ends up packing the serialized output into a JAR. Not quite sure how that looks...
13:03 * pmurias looks ;)
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13:11 pmurias jnthn: it's extracted the same way like on parrot and js: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/mast​er/src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp#L3055
13:15 timotimo o/
13:15 tadzik so, can someone give me a hand with making 'perl6' shell script run outside rakudo directory?
13:16 pmurias jnthn: I'll use a branch for now, and we can see how things workout, maybe sorear will have some insight like he did on adding caching to nqp::serialize
13:16 tadzik Replacing all '.' with absolute paths and adding stuff to classpath doesn't seem to help
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13:17 sergot hi!
13:17 sergot o/
13:17 pmurias hi
13:17 tadzik hi hi
13:17 moritz \o tadzik, pmurias, sergot, *
13:18 jnthn ok
13:18 jnthn Hopefully the last couple of commits get us closer to 98% in the tests :)
13:19 jnthn bbl &
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13:40 * timotimo is not absolutely sure how the nodality of Hash's or Associative's methods should be handled
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13:55 dalek rakudo-js: 381555f | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (3 files):
13:55 dalek rakudo-js: Use the cached-serialization branch. We can compile th whole of QASTNode.nqp
13:55 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/​rakudo-js/commit/381555fd87
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13:59 grondilu rn: say "A" ~~ /<ident-[A..Z]>/
13:59 camelia niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/DLSmcpTWGm line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "A" ~~ /<ident-[33mâ��[31m[A..Z]>/[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ast in type Anyâ�¤  at /h…
13:59 camelia ..rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracketâ�¤at /tmp/2uwlu_hJeN:1â�¤------> [32msay "A" ~~ /<ident[33mâ��[31m-[A..Z]>/[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        prefix or ter…
13:59 grondilu rn: say "A" ~~ /<ident>/
13:59 camelia rakudo ebb29b, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«「A」␤ ident => 「A」␤␤»
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14:00 grondilu rn: say "A" ~~ /<ident-[A..Z] >/
14:00 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracketâ�¤at /tmp/kUPZnxCfgj:1â�¤------> [32msay "A" ~~ /<ident[33mâ��[31m-[A..Z] >/[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        prefix or te…
14:00 camelia ..niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/3Xkro5ICB1 line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "A" ~~ /<ident-[33mâ��[31m[A..Z] >/[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ast in type Anyâ�¤  at /…
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14:02 grondilu rn: say "A" ~~ /<+ident-[A..Z]>/
14:02 camelia rakudo ebb29b, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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15:06 moritz r: say (100, 155, * % * ... 0)[*-2]
15:06 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«5␤»
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15:09 timotimo what is that sequence for? o_O
15:09 moritz GCD
15:09 moritz r: say 100 gcd 155
15:09 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«5␤»
15:10 timotimo oh!
15:25 timotimo moritz: personally i'd've gone with ...^ 0 and then just [*-1]
15:42 moritz timotimo: I think that little snippet comes from the times before ...^
15:42 timotimo ah
15:50 moritz back in the days when the sequence operator was new, I looked for cool uses of it
15:50 moritz and euler's algorithm happens to be one that just needed the last two intermediate resutls
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15:52 moritz r: say (100, 155, * % * ... 0)
15:52 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«100 155 100 55 45 10 5 0␤»
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16:16 dukeleto o/
16:19 tadzik hi dukeleto
16:20 dukeleto tadzik: wazzup
16:21 tadzik dukeleto: I was thinkikng about Seasons of Code today
16:21 tadzik any news on that?
16:23 dukeleto tadzik: i am still going to pursue that, but I have not had a wink of free-time outside of brewpony
16:23 dukeleto tadzik: but i just shipped out coffee for the month, so I have time to hack on stuff a bit :)
16:23 tadzik cool :)
16:24 dukeleto tadzik: my plan is to talk to the appropriate TPF committee (I have chatted with them already) and make a plan and get funding for Perl Seasons of Code
16:25 dukeleto tadzik: then I would create and document "the process" that I can hand over to somebody the following year. The last thing I want is to be another single-point-of-failure
16:25 tadzik right
16:25 dukeleto tadzik: "the process" of herding herds of herds of cats, that is :)
16:25 tadzik ;)
16:26 dukeleto tadzik: my hope is that seasons of code will not have as strict rules about age as gsoc
16:26 dukeleto I think we have to require >=13 years old, for stupid US legal reasons
16:26 dukeleto but otherwise, that might be the only requirement, other than being awesome
16:27 FROGGS a SoC would be pretty awesome, and I think this will work out pretty well
16:29 tadzik yeah, age rules are LTA
16:29 tadzik on both sides :)
16:29 dukeleto tadzik: it protects kids against child labor, which i think is good
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16:30 dukeleto I met an 11 year old selling lemonade at a lemonade stand yesterday. He said he already knew Bash, Python, C++ and Java. So I gave him my business card.
16:30 FROGGS well, then maybe a kid <13 years might just get no money, but is still allowed to participate
16:30 dukeleto What an odd place Portland is.
16:30 dukeleto FROGGS: yes
16:30 tadzik I see
16:30 FROGGS hehe
16:30 dukeleto FROGGS: money makes all the laws kick in
16:31 tadzik the opportunity to work on a Big Deal and have help of experienced people and gain experience yourself is not a small thing
16:32 * diakopter wonders what Big Deals are left
16:32 dukeleto tadzik: indeed. That is why GCI students were actually more motivated than GSoC students
16:33 dukeleto diakopter: your perspective is wonky :)
16:33 diakopter your perspective is wonky
16:33 dukeleto diakopter: i prefer my wonkiness to your wonkiness :)
16:34 tadzik one's weekend project is another one's Big Deal
16:34 pmurias jnthn: what do you think if instead of putting the serialized serialization context, the sc would keep that after serialization?
16:34 diakopter dukeleto: I couldn't possibly care any less which one you prefer, and I can't imagine anyone else caring either
16:36 pmurias that is we would have a nqp::serialization($sc) op that we are only allowed to call once, a nqp::sc_is_serialized($sc), nqp::sc_get_sh($sc) and nqp::sc_get_data($sc)?
16:36 dukeleto diakopter: well, maybe you should not spread your weariness and lack of -Ofun
16:36 dukeleto These kids are amazed at the chance to help something as cool as Perl 6.
16:36 diakopter dukeleto: maybe you shouldn't tell your critics to kill themselves
16:36 dukeleto diakopter: perhaps
16:36 dukeleto diakopter: I don't think I said that to you, but whatevs, dude.
16:37 pmurias ...things escalated pretty quickly ;)
16:37 diakopter why would it matter who you said it to?
16:37 dukeleto these kids have never heard the "perl is dead" meme and don't know that node is cooler than ruby now
16:37 dukeleto diakopter: seems like you are having a bad day. Maybe go for a walk and do something happy?
16:37 dukeleto diakopter: i am your buddy, not whatever you are thinking in your head.
16:38 diakopter I am quite sure that you think that
16:38 dukeleto diakopter: yep.
16:38 dukeleto diakopter: i said hello to you at YAPC::NA and tried to talk. That was me being friendly.
16:38 dukeleto diakopter: but i saw that you didn't want to interact with me. Fair enough. But you don't get to be mean in #perl6
16:39 diakopter I didn't?
16:39 dukeleto diakopter: i will ask TimToady to eject you.
16:39 * dukeleto goes to his happy place
16:39 dukeleto left #perl6
16:39 diakopter why did you think I didn't want to interact with you?
16:40 geekosaur that person has... issues
16:40 FROGGS but w/e, SoC++
16:41 pmurias jnthn: with better op names
16:41 diakopter I'm pretty sure I wasn't being "mean" compared to him telling my friend "And possibly eat a tasty ice pick with a side of sand to wash it down."
16:42 FROGGS diakopter: we all know that you are the rude guy of #perl6 *g*
16:42 diakopter lolololol
16:43 * diakopter commutes
16:47 * timotimo wonders, but at the same time doesn't think he wants to know
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16:52 pmurias jnthn: example of what I'm proposing http://pastie.org/8140268
16:55 census__ diakopter has been super nice to me :)
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17:46 diakopter FROGGS: it's funny b/c it's sometimes true
17:48 FROGGS diakopter: hmmmm, I've never seen you rude here
17:48 moritz somtimes curt, but not rude
17:49 diakopter heh. usually it's not on purpose. bad assumptions by me.
17:49 moritz the usual problem with IRC being a medium with small bandwidth
17:58 sorear good * #perl6
17:58 sorear pmurias: I'm not sure what you're doing, but if it requires caching serialize it sounds *less* correct than the two-process solution
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18:17 pmurias sorear: hi
18:18 labster joined #perl6
18:18 pmurias sorear: I'm compiling one QAST::CompUnit on two backends, first on parrot then on javascript
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18:19 pmurias sorear: you have seen the example?
18:19 pmurias sorear: http://pastie.org/8140268
18:21 pmurias sorear: when compiling the same compunit on the second backend I want to be able to check if the serialization context is serialized and just use it
18:21 pmurias s/it/the stuff it's already serialized too
18:22 pmurias sorear: calling the serialize opcode on the same context twice will throw an exception
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18:39 sorear pmurias: why are you doing parrot if the goal is javascript?
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18:53 arnsholt jnthn: Should result() in QAST::Compiler (line 106) for JVM perhaps check that $type != $RT_VOID?
18:58 pmurias sorear: nqp-js currently can't bootstrap, so I'm running on top of parrot
18:59 pmurias sorear: when I load a module it must be available a both a .pbc so I can load it at compile time, and as a .js file so I can load it at runtime
19:03 pmurias sorear: I could switch to using jvm instead of parrot ;)
19:04 diakopter pmurias: I was consideing doing that for moarvm..
19:04 diakopter *considering
19:04 diakopter but it would be more than several hours
19:04 diakopter (for me)
19:09 pmurias diakopter: what else would be necessary other than changing Makefiles?
19:10 diakopter for moarvm, lots, since nqp isn't bootstrapped there, and the bytecode compiler isn't re-macro'd (including support code) to be bound in that
19:11 sorear pmurias: why do you need compile-time loading?
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19:12 pmurias when I'm loading something like QAST::Node
19:13 census diakopter++
19:13 census portland--
19:14 raiph joined #perl6
19:14 diakopter census: :(
19:15 arifmelik joined #perl6
19:16 census what's wrong diakopter? :(
19:17 pmurias sorear: re compile-time loading, nqp imports a lot of stuff at compile time from the setting
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19:19 pmurias sorear: so a lot of the QAST::WVal's contains things from other compilation units, and they need to be loaded
19:26 arnsholt yoleaux: tell jnthn Should result() in QAST::Compiler (line 106) for JVM perhaps check that $type != $RT_VOID? Or maybe set_core_op_result_type (l 347) is missing a case?
19:27 arnsholt Hmm, that seems to be wrong. How is this supposed to work again?
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19:45 dalek rakudo-js: efc1168 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/QAST/Compiler/JavaScript.nqp:
19:45 dalek rakudo-js: Implement nqp::const::*.
19:45 dalek rakudo-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/​rakudo-js/commit/efc11681dc
19:48 jnthn pmurias: I keep telling you to couple something as loosely as possible and you keep trying to shove it even deeper in. :/
19:50 mst jnthn: eventually the process'll receive SIGPROLAPSE and he'll figure out why it was a bad idea
19:50 yoleaux 11 Jul 2013 19:20Z <raiph> mst: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Slangs
19:51 jnthn pmurias: I really don't see why it can't be a %*SAVE_SC declared in the cross-comp's MAIN, and a check for if that exists and saving the serialized stuff in there if so.
19:51 jnthn mst: :)
19:55 arnsholt jnthn: I think I'm running into a QAST/JVM bug when $stack_out is $RT_VOID. Sound plausible?
19:57 sorear arnsholt: you're declaring a classlib op that returns void?
19:57 jnthn arnsholt: maybe...iirc you still need to obtain the thing...
19:57 sorear (what is arnsholt's project?)
19:57 arnsholt sorear: Yep, it's called purely for its side effects (setting up the internals of a thing)
19:57 arnsholt jnthn: Obtain the thing?
19:58 jnthn $*STACK.obtain(...)
19:59 arnsholt I have no idea what that means. I add the ops with QAST::OperationsJAST.map_classlib_core_op, so I'm not doing much in the way of internals setup
19:59 arnsholt sorear: This is for NativeCall/JVM
19:59 timotimo tadzik: did you notice the file tools tests are failing? ;)
20:00 jnthn arnsholt: Well, what sorear said. Did you declare ops void?
20:00 tadzik timotimo: no, I did not :)
20:00 jnthn Don't do that... :)
20:00 timotimo only one, though
20:00 arnsholt The op is public static void, yeah
20:01 arnsholt That's wrong?
20:01 timotimo not ok 10 - found one of two files due to X::IO::Dir - got 2 expected 1
20:01 jnthn arnsholt: Can cause issues.
20:01 timotimo in the test file, tabs and spaces are mixed ;_;
20:01 arnsholt Oh, didn't know that. Why is that?
20:02 jnthn arnsholt: 'cus if you use the op in any not-void-expecting context (like, last in a block) then it causes issues.
20:03 arnsholt Oooooh, right
20:03 arnsholt Unconditionally return 1 it is then =)
20:14 sorear timotimo: probably lots of end-of-line spaces, too?
20:17 timotimo end-of-line tabs ;)
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21:11 timotimo ufo still doesn't properly exclude . and .. from dirwalk in upstream :|
21:11 timotimo and masak is now on holiday
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21:26 timotimo .o(and of course building rakudo::debugger is as impossible as it's been for ages now)
21:26 timotimo is anybody able to install that? on linux?
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21:39 dalek perl6-roast-data: 72865ed | coke++ | / (5 files):
21:39 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:39 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/72865edd1d
21:45 [Coke] rakudo.jvm @ 98.17%
21:46 sorear wa?
21:48 [Coke] what wa?
21:49 sorear seems a large jump relative to what's been done in the last 24h
21:50 [Coke] I fudged a test so it didn't abort and lose passes.
21:51 [Coke] r: say 371-313
21:51 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«58␤»
21:51 [Coke] 58 more passes since yesterday
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