# IRC log for #perl6, 2013-07-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 timotimo r: my @res := (1, 2 ... *) »*» 2; say @res[^10].perl;
00:01 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«()␤»
00:01 timotimo huh?
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00:08 sorear std: my @res := (1, 2 ... *) »*» 2; say @res[^10].perl;
00:08 camelia std 85cf51d: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
00:08 sorear r: my @res := ((1, 2 ... *) »*» 2); say @res[^10].perl;
00:08 camelia rakudo ebb29b: OUTPUT«()␤»
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00:10 timotimo whoa, what happened to the irclog?
00:10 timotimo (only the main page apparently?)
00:13 timotimo huh, expecting a *hyperop* to be lazy is kind of stupid, isn't it?
00:17 timotimo hm. sort isn't really lazy, right? but it probably could be ...
00:18 timotimo yay, triangle reduce is lazy :)
00:18 sorear yes
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00:18 sorear feeding an infinite list to >>*>> *should* hang or die
00:18 sorear returnign () is pretty bogus
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00:34 [Coke] how can sort be lazy? Don't you have to sort everything to know you're done?
00:35 timotimo you are correct
00:36 sorear for a comparison sort, you need O(n*log(n)) work to sort everything, but you can get the first element with O(n) work
00:36 timotimo it can only be lazy if you merge multiple sorted lists
00:36 sorear there are several sorting algorithms that can be lazy in the sense of returning the first element in O(n) time
00:36 timotimo mymistake
00:37 timotimo selectionsort comes to mind
00:37 sorear heap sorts have that property naturally, and it's possible to build a quick sort that way
00:37 sorear not sure about merge sorts
00:39 sorear quicksort has the further interesting property that you can retrieve the kth result in O(n) time
00:39 sorear you can for instance find the median of N numbers in O(N) time
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05:39 moritz \o
05:39 sorear o/
05:41 sorear moritz: any clue what happened to the irc.perlgeek.de main page around 5 hours ago?  it's fixed now, but it was coming up blank
05:41 diakopter gremlibbles
05:42 moritz sorear: nothing interesting in the log files :(
05:44 raiph .
05:45 sorear :(
05:45 diakopter .tell raiph here you go :D
05:45 yoleaux diakopter: I'll pass your message to raiph.
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06:00 yoleaux 05:45Z <diakopter> raiph: here you go :D
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06:05 raiph (just milking the . for all it was worth)
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06:07 raiph (giving gremlibbles a run for their money)
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08:46 labster o/
08:47 FROGGS_ hi labster
08:48 labster hi FROGGS_
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11:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 9bdb5bc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/traits.pm:
11:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Move definition of \$/, \$! and \$_ so "is default" might actually work in the future.
11:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9bdb5bc6a5
11:53 daxim what's the perl6 equivalent of python/ecmascript yield?
11:57 FROGGS_ daxim: gather/take if I am not totally off
11:57 daxim you're off
11:57 daxim wait, no, I better test my assumptions first
11:57 lizmat S17:558 describes yield as obsolete?  then again S17 is nod even sludgy
11:57 lizmat *not
11:58 moritz basically lazy map is the equivalent of yield
11:58 ztt pass a code ref?
12:01 * moritz doesn't understand what ztt is trying to say
12:02 daxim mls, please enable 12.2 / 12.3 -- https://build.opensuse.org/projec​t/monitor/devel:languages:parrot
12:03 ztt I think python/ruby yield is eq to pass a code ref
12:08 moritz passing a code ref to what?
12:09 * moritz wonders if anybody has noticed the "Look for new lines" button in the IR clogs
12:10 FROGGS_ moritz: I've seen it now :o)
12:11 FROGGS_ ahh, cool
12:11 FROGGS_ moritz++
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12:19 daxim gosh
12:20 daxim where's the __END__ token gone?
12:20 daxim if I have to write =begin pod =end pod every time I want to bisect I'm gonna jump out of the window
12:23 FROGGS_ daxim: you only have to care about =end twice fwiw
12:23 * diakopter closes the window
12:24 FROGGS_ daxim: btw, my editor (scite) allows block comments, so I press ctrl+q to toggle
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12:32 mls daxim: done, thanks for the hint ;)
12:39 tadzik daxim: it's called =begin END or something
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12:56 ztt sorry i dropped line
12:58 moritz daxim: what's the problem?
12:58 ztt moritz: i want to express sub test(&code, \$arg) { &code(do sth) } is eq yield
12:58 daxim the problem is I can't program perl6
12:59 moritz ztt: for a very, very loose definition of "equivalent"
12:59 moritz daxim: I think you want 'gather for ...', not just 'gather ...'
12:59 ztt moritz: :P
12:59 moritz daxim: but if you get an error message or something, it would be helpful if you could tell us that
13:00 daxim the error message was ===SORRY!=== Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row, or previous statement missing semicolon?) at gen.pl:4 ------>     gather zip 1..*, \$lines ⏏-> \$lineno, \$line { expecting any of: postfix infix stopper infix or meta-infix
13:00 daxim gather for works
13:00 moritz \o/
13:00 daxim how do I check whether it's lazy?
13:01 moritz you add a debugging say() or note() or so to it
13:01 moritz and when all the debug statements are execute before all the other print statements, you know it's not lazy
13:02 moritz or you use an infinite range as the argument
13:02 moritz and if it prints at all, it's lazy
13:02 ztt yeah perl6 has faq http://faq.perl6.org/
13:03 daxim turns out, it's not lazy
13:04 ztt hat's the perl6 equivalent of ruby method_missing?
13:04 daxim where's the mistake?
13:04 moritz ztt: what's ruby's method_missing?
13:06 moritz there'a a fallback mechanism in the MOP, but it's not yet nicely exposed to the user
13:06 ztt moritz: oh it's really magic http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/Basi​cObject.html#method-i-method_missing
13:07 ztt got it
13:10 ztt daxim: how to test whether is lazy?
13:11 daxim I tried both things; infinite input (variabl \$i) blocks
13:12 daxim rakudo: my \$i = 1..*; for pager(\$i) -> \$line { say \$line }   # simple case runs as expected
13:12 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    pager used at line 1. Did you mean '&eager'?â�¤â�¤Â»
13:12 daxim oops
13:12 daxim rakudo: my \$i = 1..*; for \$i -> \$line { say \$line }   # simple case runs as expected
13:12 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1..Inf␤»
13:12 daxim ah well, damn this bloody contraption, just run the code yourself
13:13 ztt daxi: range is lazy
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13:15 daxim yeah, and the pager is not.  why? *that's* what I want to know
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13:19 ztt rakudo: my \$s = gather for 0..Inf { take \$_**2 }
13:19 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
13:20 daxim have you run my translated program?
13:21 [Coke] daxim; isn't the syntax for zip: for zip(@names; @codes) -> \$name, \$zip ?? (S03)
13:22 daxim well, is it? you're the expert, tell me
13:22 daxim I can only find the Z operator in that document
13:23 [Coke] I am only relatively the expert. I don't think you're going to get a direct line for line translation here. checking, as time permits.
13:25 daxim but what good is the renouned flexibility of perl syntax if I can't translate a toy program? :(
13:26 moritz daxim: have you tried infix Z instead of zip()
13:26 moritz s/\$/?/
13:26 ztt Oh it is hard to translate in pythonic taste
13:26 [Coke] daxim: you're not going to get a line by line translation from some arbitrary language, I wouldn't expect. you're going to have to translate the idiom in most cases.
13:27 daxim and now we have arrived 40 minutes ago - what's the equivalent of yield, then?
13:27 daxim infix Z also blocks
13:28 daxim zip(1..*; \$lines) changes the meaning of the expression, this can't help
13:29 moritz 'take' is the closest equivalent to 'yield'.
13:29 moritz summary: our tools for finding out where non-laziness comes from suck
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13:37 * colomon suspects this is just another case of for not being fully lazy
13:46 colomon anyway, isn't the actual p6ish way of doing this to say gather for \$lines.kv -> \$lineno, \$line ?
13:46 colomon that gives you lineno minus one, but should work unless \$lines is infinite
13:47 colomon (Well, lineno starting from zero)
13:48 [Coke] huh. that does work.
13:49 [Coke] ... I wonder how many of my other variants worked because "\f" isn't doing anything in that terminal.
13:50 [Coke] daxim_: https://gist.github.com/coke/6000078
13:50 colomon enumerate probably most directly translates to .kv anyway, assuming I understand what it is doing.
13:52 colomon I think the problem with the older one (assuming nothing has changed since the last time I ran into this) is that for gets the list to iterate over non-lazily unless it *knows* the list is infinite.  So 1..* it knows is infinite and treats lazily, but 1..* Z \$lines it doesn't know, and it treats eagerly.
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13:55 [Coke] colomon: but .kv isn't infinite, and it appears to DTRT.
13:55 ztt http://paste.scsys.co.uk/261903 this is my view that code ref eq yield @daxim @moritz
13:56 colomon .kv on a finite list is finte
13:56 colomon self.keys.map: { (\$_, self.at_pos(\$_)) }; # List.kv implementation
13:56 ztt sorry i forget you want lazy
13:57 ztt 1..100 range will be passed as lazy?
13:57 colomon that depends on what you mean by "passed"
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14:00 ztt sub test(@a) { for @a -> \$n
14:01 ztt test 0..Inf # works
14:03 FROGGS_ the problem is:
14:03 FROGGS_ r: say (0..Inf).infinite
14:03 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:03 FROGGS_ r: say (0..Inf Z 0...4).infinite
14:03 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
14:03 FROGGS_ err, no, it isnt
14:04 FROGGS_ r: say (0..Inf Z 0..Inf).infinite # this is wrong IMO
14:04 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
14:05 FROGGS_ the second one isnt infinite, since Z is only as big as the shortest range
14:07 colomon FROGGS_: it isn't *actually* infinite, but rakudo doesn't know that
14:07 ztt in scalar context 0..9 range is a range object; in array context range will be a list
14:07 ztt and it is lazy
14:07 colomon Z isn't transmitting any info about whether or not it is infinite
14:08 colomon r: say (0..4 Z 0..4).infinite
14:08 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
14:08 FROGGS_ r: say (0..4 Z 0..4).WHAT
14:08 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
14:08 FROGGS_ :/
14:09 FROGGS_ I see
14:09 colomon it's a lazy list which is finite, but rakudo doesn't know it is finite
14:09 ztt 0..Inf Z 0..Inf will time out
14:09 colomon though this does raise the question of why 1..* Z \$lines doesn't act finite.
14:10 ztt Nil.infinite is Mu
14:11 colomon nr: say (0..* Z 0..4).grep(*.is-prime)
14:11 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«2 2 3 3␤»
14:12 colomon nr: for (0..* Z 0..4) { .say if .is-prime }
14:12 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«2␤2␤3␤3␤»
14:15 mathw Sorry to go a bit off-topic but does anybody in here know if Perl 5 makes any promises about the order of evaluation of subroutine parameters?
14:15 ztt OH finally I get it! thanks [coke]
14:15 * moritz doesn't know it
14:16 mathw ah, finally found the right google-fu
14:16 mathw someone on perl monks says that because it's a list, it's down to the comma operator, and that's defined as left-to-right
14:16 mathw just saw some code that set my C++-brain on fire
14:19 ztt mathw: the order of evaluation of subroutine parameters? what that mean?
14:20 mathw if you call a foo(bar(), baz()), does bar() or baz() get called first? Is there a defined order? Is it the same every time? In C, for example, the compiler can do whatever it likes and frequently you see right-to-left i.e. baz() is called first.
14:24 ztt When I am child, I think gather/take is just another map. I am wrong. thank you [coke]++, very impressive!
14:25 daxim_ [Coke], change \$i to 1..*  -  it will block, do you observe that too?
14:26 daxim_ and yes, kv is nicer than the zip.  I didn't expect that method works on lists
14:28 ztt mathw: bar() first. I have tried
14:30 mathw ztt: yes, I know that's what Perl 5 does now, but that's because I found the answer.
14:30 dalek Perlito: 206defd | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | src5/lib/Perlito5/Grammar/Print.pm:
14:30 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - wip Perlito5/Grammar/Print.pm
14:30 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/206defdb0a
14:30 mathw but an experiment can't actually prove it, because C compilers might decide to use a different order for every function call (the language allows it, although that's not likely in the real world)
14:31 mathw Fortunately Perl is a bit more predictable :)
14:31 ztt mathw: a magic random
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14:34 ztt r: for (1..9).kv -> \$i, \$v { say \$i, \$v }
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14:34 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«01␤12␤23␤34␤45␤56␤67␤78␤89␤»
14:34 ztt rakudo: for (1..Inf).kv -> \$i, \$v { say \$i, \$v }
14:34 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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14:37 BenGoldberg Good morning
14:37 moritz good morning
14:39 colomon nr: for (1..Inf).kv -> \$i, \$v { say \$i, \$v; last; }
14:39 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:39 camelia ..niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«01␤»
14:41 ztt what a fruitful day! good night~
14:41 BenGoldberg nr: ((1..Inf).kv)[0].say
14:41 camelia niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«0␤»
14:41 camelia ..rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«0 1␤»
14:43 BenGoldberg nr: ((1..Inf).kv)[5].say
14:43 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«5 6␤»
14:43 camelia ..niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«3␤»
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14:44 BenGoldberg Most peculiar
14:44 moritz different flattening behavior
14:45 moritz nr: say  ((1..Inf).kv.flat)[0]
14:45 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b, niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«0␤»
14:45 moritz nr: say  ((1..Inf).kv.tree)[5]
14:45 camelia niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method tree in type List␤  at /tmp/_0zHVEnJGM line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4579 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4580 (module-CORE @ 576) ␤  at /home/…
14:45 camelia ..rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«5 6␤»
14:45 moritz I don't think niezca implements LoLs
14:46 BenGoldberg I don't think .kv produces a list of lists... it produces a list of Pair objects
14:46 BenGoldberg Or at least, on rakduo it does
14:46 colomon BenGoldberg: no
14:47 colomon it produces a list of parcels, I believe
14:47 colomon nr: ((1..Inf).kv)[0].WHAT.say
14:47 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
14:47 camelia ..niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
14:47 timotimo is the thing with the pager still interesting?
14:48 colomon and niecza is doing some sort of premature flattening in there
14:48 timotimo i didn't backlog fully, but did seriously nobody notice the \$ that should really have been an @ with a :=, or at least a .list for the zip metaop?
14:50 * moritz seriosly didn't notice it
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14:53 * timotimo caught up
14:53 timotimo backlogging is so disempowering
14:53 arnsholt Is there a simple way to get NQP/JVM to not catch Java exceptions?
14:53 daxim_ timotimo, put your words into code
14:53 arnsholt Something's going wrong when JNA is loaded, so I actually do want the JVM stacktrace, rather than the NQP one
14:54 timotimo like watching a horror film where that one person decides they really need some alone-time from the group because they were having some argument and they walk into that hallway without an escape or maybe a garage and you yell at the screen "there is a dollar sign! you need an @ instead!" and all the other people in the theater decide you're probably mentally ill
14:55 timotimo r: my \$i := 1 ... Inf; for \$i { say \$i } # no, this is *not* working as intended
14:55 timotimo er, with the binding, though, it probably is
14:55 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:55 timotimo r: my \$i = 1 ... Inf; for \$i { say \$i } # no, this is *not* working as intended
14:55 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:55 timotimo wait what? now i'm confused, too
14:55 daxim_ yeah.
14:55 timotimo r: my \$i = 1..*; for \$i -> \$line { say \$line }   # simple case runs as expected  # line from before
14:55 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1..Inf␤»
14:56 timotimo for \$i say \$i is of course not helpful :)
14:56 arnsholt timotimo: That was a gloriously mixed metaphor =D
14:56 timotimo it is really sufficiently late to expect me to be fully awake, but i'm not :P
14:58 daxim_ can you put this together with the sub pager?
14:59 timotimo yeah, sure
14:59 timotimo gimme a few seconds
15:01 timotimo r: sub pager(@list, \$lpp=5) { gather for @list.kv -> \$lno, \$line { take \$line; take '-- More --' if \$lno %% \$lpp } }; my @data := 1...Inf; say pager(@data)[^31]
15:01 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:01 BenGoldberg mathw: Perl5, unlike perl6, is definited by the imlementation... there is no formal perl5 specification.  In other words, for perl5, experimentation is in fact the only way to know.
15:01 timotimo ah, did we find out that .kv will try to be eager?
15:01 timotimo r: say (1..Inf).kv[^5]
15:01 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5␤»
15:02 timotimo r: say (gather for (1..Inf).kv -> \$no, \$dat { say \$no; say \$dat })[^10]
15:02 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:03 timotimo r: say (gather for 0..Inf Z 1..Inf -> \$no, \$dat { say \$no; say \$dat })[^10]
15:03 timotimo that is weird indeed.
15:03 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:03 timotimo oh, no it isn't
15:03 timotimo when you say rather than take, of course it'll loop infinitely
15:03 timotimo r: say (gather for (1..Inf).kv -> \$no, \$dat { take \$no; take \$dat })[^10]
15:03 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:04 timotimo r: say (gather for (0...) Z (1...) -> \$no, \$dat { take \$no; take \$dat })[^10]
15:04 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Bogus statementâ�¤at /tmp/pWeHzMdl0t:1â�¤------> [32msay (gather for (0...[33mâ��[31m) Z (1...) -> \$no, \$dat { take \$no; take[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        dotty method or postfixâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefixâ€¦
15:04 timotimo r: say (gather for (0...*) Z (1...*) -> \$no, \$dat { take \$no; take \$dat })[^10]
15:04 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:04 arnsholt timotimo: Well, when you only say there's never a take, so it'll loop forever while looking for the first takes
15:04 timotimo yes
15:05 arnsholt Not sure why the other one times out though
15:06 * timotimo finds out he'd fare as badly in a horror film, too
15:06 timotimo anyway, what i'd do is this:
15:06 BenGoldberg for (1..Inf).kv { \$_.say; last if \$_ > 5 }
15:06 timotimo r: my @paged <== map { (\$line, ++(state \$) %% 3 ?? '-- More --' !! ()) } <== 1...*; say @paged[^10]
15:06 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Variable '\$line' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/tq1ZlOqgos:1â�¤------> [32mmy @paged <== map { (\$line[33mâ��[31m, ++(state \$) %% 3 ?? '-- More --' !! ()[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
15:06 BenGoldberg r: for (1..Inf).kv { \$_.say; last if \$_ > 5 }
15:06 timotimo r: my @paged <== map { (\$_, ++(state \$) %% 3 ?? '-- More --' !! ()) } <== 1...*; say @paged[^10]
15:07 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:07 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unsupported use of \$) variable; in Perl 6 please use \$*EGIDâ�¤at /tmp/sLjAwBvOZz:1â�¤------> [32mmy @paged <== map { (\$_, ++(state \$)[33mâ��[31m %% 3 ?? '-- More --' !! ()) } <== 1...*[0mâ�¤Â»
15:07 timotimo r: my @paged <== map { (\$_, ++(state \$num) %% 3 ?? '-- More --' !! ()) } <== 1...*; say @paged[^10]
15:07 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:07 timotimo aaw come on!
15:07 timotimo what's wrong with you today?
15:07 timotimo is it something i said, camelia? :[
15:08 BenGoldberg r: my @p := map { (\$_, ++(state \$n) %% 3 ?? '--m--' !! ()) } <== 1..*; 'Alive'.say;
15:08 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUTÂ«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Sorry, do not know how to handle this case of a feed operator yet.â�¤at /tmp/JQpOeeEptj:1â�¤------> [32mte \$n) %% 3 ?? '--m--' !! ()) } <== 1..*[33mâ��[31m; 'Alive'.say;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
15:09 BenGoldberg r: my @p <== map { (\$_, ++(state \$n) %% 3 ?? '--m--' !! ()) } <== 1..*; 'Alive'.say;
15:09 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:09 BenGoldberg Is the feed operator lazy, or eager?
15:09 timotimo it's supposed to be lazy
15:09 timotimo the map turns it eager for *some* reason, but i'm pretty sure it shouldn't do that
15:10 * timotimo doesn't have the computing power to build an older rakudo
15:10 timotimo it seems like a regression
15:11 timotimo there ought to be spectests for lazyness of different constructs, too
15:12 timotimo r: use Test; is (1..* Z** 1..*).[^5], (1**1, 2**2, 3**3, 4**4, 5**5), "power with lazy lists";
15:12 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«ok 1 - power with lazy lists␤»
15:15 BenGoldberg r: my @foo := gather { for (1..10) { \$_.say; take \$_; } }; @foo.kv.[5].say
15:15 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤5 6␤»
15:17 BenGoldberg r: my @foo := gather { for (1..10) { \$_.say; take \$_; } }; my @bar := @foo.kv; 'baz'.say
15:17 ztt r: for 1..4 -> \$n { say \$n }
15:17 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤baz␤»
15:17 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
15:17 ztt r: my \$a = 1..4; for \$a -> \$n { say \$n }
15:17 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1..4␤»
15:18 ztt Range() in different context confuse me
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15:20 BenGoldberg r: my \$a = 1..4; for @\$a -> \$n { say \$n }
15:20 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
15:20 benabik r: my @a := 1..4; .say for @a
15:20 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
15:20 BenGoldberg zzt, 'for' thought you were passing in a list of one element.
15:21 benabik r: .say for 1..4
15:21 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
15:24 BenGoldberg r: my \$eager = False; gather { for (1..10) { \$eager = \$_ == 10; take \$_; } }.kv; \$eager.say
15:24 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«True␤»
15:26 BenGoldberg r: gather { for (1..10) { \$_.say; take \$_; } }.first(*>5);
15:26 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
15:38 ztt BenGoldberg: finally I understand. pass a Range() object is reasonable! thx!
15:40 timotimo BenGoldberg: i think in that case the gather is getting sinked anyway, which makes it eager
15:40 timotimo r: my \$eager = False; my @result := gather { for (1..10) { \$eager = \$_ == 10; take \$_; } }.kv; \$eager.say
15:40 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«True␤»
15:40 timotimo oh, or maybe not.
15:42 benabik r: my \$eager = False; my @result := gather { for (1..10) { \$eager = \$_ == 10; take \$_; } }; \$eager.say; my @r2 := @result.kv; \$eager.say
15:42 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
15:45 timotimo mhm
15:46 timotimo interestingly, in List, kv is implemented as a map over self.keys and self.keys is (0..self.end).list
15:46 timotimo not exactly sure which kv method is called there
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15:46 timotimo r: my \$eager = False; my @result := gather { for (1..10) { \$eager = \$_ == 10; take \$_; } }; \$eager.say; say @result.DUMP;
15:46 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«False␤List<1>(␤    :\$!flattens(Mu),␤    :\$!items(▶Mu),␤    :\$!nextiter(ListIter<3>(␤        :\$!list(=List<1>),␤        :\$!reified(▶Mu),␤        :\$!nextiter(▶Mu),␤        :\$!rest(QRPA<4>(GatherIter<5>(␤            :\$!reified(▶Any),␤            :\$!coro(Coroutine<7>(.…
15:46 timotimo apparently list
15:47 timotimo so it has to be eager, because it calculates the length of the list
15:47 timotimo in order for .kv to be lazy, .end must not be used
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16:00 timotimo alternatively, if finiteness cannot be established, it could fall back to a count-up thingie
16:04 moritz maybe self.keys should be { my Int \$c = 0; self.map: -> \$ { \$c++ } }
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16:05 moritz and self.kv would similarly by  { my Int \$c = 0; self.map -> \$v { (\$c++, \$v) } }
16:05 moritz anyone want to spectest that?
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16:13 ztt OH my rakudo can not do ** say @result.DUMP; ** with 2013.02.1 version
16:15 moritz 5 months is a lot of time in Perl 6 land
16:16 ztt yes :)
16:18 timotimo also, .DUMP isn't considered specced, right?
16:20 moritz it's not
16:21 moritz it's a purely internal debugging tool
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16:23 [Coke] r: say &floor.DUMP
16:23 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«Sub+{<anon>}<1>(␤    :\$!dispatchees(Parcel<2>(:\$!storage(​OwnedResizablePMCArray<3>(...)))),␤    :\$!dispatcher_cache(Mu),␤    :\$!dispatcher(Mu),␤    :\$!rw(0),␤    :\$!inline_info(Mu),␤    :\$!yada(0),␤    :\$!package(GLOBAL<7>(...)),␤    :\$!onlystar(1),␤    :\$!dispatch…
16:24 [Coke] ... I wonder what happens in rakudo-jvm land. shame I'm in the middle of a build and cannot test it. :)
16:31 ztt my \$eager = False; test is really awesome! timotimo++
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16:32 ztt good night really
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16:48 BenGoldberg rn: gather { take \$_ for 1..9; 'x'.say }.first(*>4).say
16:48 camelia rakudo 9bdb5b: OUTPUT«x␤5␤»
16:48 camelia ..niecza v24-86-g39ab531: OUTPUT«5␤»
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16:49 [Coke] Anyone hacking on remaining rakudo.jvm failures? Or working on adding more features that aren't in rakudo.parrot yet?
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17:20 * TimToady was also a bit horrified to see nobody noticing the 'for \$i ->'
17:20 TimToady maybe we should warn on that
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17:22 TimToady it's not a mistake that a P5er would typically make, but it's an easy mistake coming from languages that don't make distinctions about list interpolation as Perl does
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17:41 [Coke] niecza has been dirty for 363 days. *sadface*
17:42 FROGGS ohh, something to celebrate in two days
17:45 [Coke] yah, not really. :|
17:47 dalek perl6-roast-data: 12ea887 | coke++ | / (5 files):
17:47 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:47 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/12ea887d5c
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18:22 dalek std: c2215f0 | larry++ | STD.pm6:
18:22 dalek std: warn on for with single scalar variable
18:22 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/c2215f042b
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18:36 jnthn o/ from a train somewhere in Denmark :)
18:36 yoleaux 06:49Z <diakopter> jnthn: as soon as you have 3 min, could you tersely explain how to call a 6model method from an op
18:37 jnthn Don't think this connection will hold too well, but this station means I can push a few commits... :)
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 37bf15c | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Binder.java:
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Die on unexpected arguments.
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom:
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Handles both positional and named case. This clears up many of the
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom: remaining S06 test files with failures.
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/37bf15c2a1
18:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 14c63bb | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/RakOps.java:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement getThrower.
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Means various error cases now through the correct typed exception.
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/14c63bb6e4
18:38 timotimo \o/
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 961c030 | jonathan++ | src/ (4 files):
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Abstract a Parrotism hit in backtrace gen.
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/961c03014f
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 4ad1b8e | jonathan++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix undeclared named reporting.
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Makes S32-exceptions/misc.t get to the end, and a few other things
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: pass.
18:38 jnthn I see I missed today's run :)
18:39 jnthn diakopter: context?
18:40 timotimo jnthn: would looking at the implementation of "is rw" for classes be a good starting point for making "is nodal" on a class turn all the protos and methods defined in it "is nodal", too?
18:40 jnthn timotimo: Perhaps, yes
18:40 jnthn uh-oh, we're leaving the station :)
18:41 timotimo ttyl :)
18:41 jnthn well, it may hold... :)
18:42 jnthn Seems like Buf and the LEAVE related stuff are two of the main reasons for the remaining failing tests.
18:42 PerlJam It's really neat to see the p5-mop project slowly morph Perl 5 into something more Perl 6-y.
18:42 * PerlJam just read some of stevan's posts
18:42 arnsholt jnthn: Is there some bit of code I can twiddle to let Java exceptions percolate all the way to the top level?
18:45 arnsholt (In NQP/JVM)
18:50 TimToady std: my \$foo; for \$foo { .say }
18:50 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤  'for \$foo' will never flatten a \$ variable;â�¤      to force list interpolation, please use either 'for @\$foo' or 'for \$foo[]';â�¤    if you just want item topicalization, use 'given \$foo' instead at /tmp/70_3l87OPl line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy \$foo; for [3â€¦
18:51 TimToady std: my \$foo; .say for \$foo
18:51 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤  'for \$foo' will never flatten a \$ variable;â�¤      to force list interpolation, please use either 'for @\$foo' or 'for \$foo[]';â�¤    if you just want item topicalization, use 'given \$foo' instead at /tmp/MR7t59MR4q line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy \$foo; .say foâ€¦
18:53 TimToady std: for \$_ {}
18:53 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUTÂ«Potential difficulties:â�¤  'for \$_' will never flatten a \$ variable;â�¤        to force list interpolation, please use either 'for @\$_' or 'for \$_[]';â�¤        if you just want item topicalization, use 'given \$_' instead at /tmp/ccD13ELMyR line 1:â�¤------> [32mfor [33mâ��[31m\$_
18:53 camelia ..{}[0mâ€¦
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19:07 jnthn arnsholt: I tend to patch ExceptionHandler.java, in the dieInternal method that takes a throwable.
19:11 arnsholt jnthn: Brilliant!
19:12 jnthn arnsholt: You can make nqp-runtime.jar and then just copy it to your install-jvm directory without rebulding anything else, btw.
19:12 jnthn arnsholt: Or if you're already in NQP then you need not copy anything at all, just do the make :)
19:12 arnsholt Yeah, I'm doing the latter ATM
19:12 jnthn k
19:12 arnsholt This is all NQP hacking at the moment, so no need to install really
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19:24 dalek niecza: 1f87209 | larry++ | src/STD.pm6:
19:24 dalek niecza: hack in STD's 'for \$' warning
19:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1f87209320
19:25 * [Coke] hopes larry isn't still breaking niecza.
19:27 TimToady that larry guy keeps trying to pick off all the LTA LHF...
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19:47 colomon jnthn++
19:57 moritz jnthn++ # blog, threads, promises
20:03 labster jnthn++ rakudo shows promise.
20:05 jnthn ;)
20:09 jnthn detrain &
20:17 tadzik anybody planning to go to LPW?
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20:41 TimToady jnthn: the combinator for waiting for any of them is called "race" :)
20:42 TimToady oh, I see you mentioned race later
20:48 * TimToady assiduously avoids making a pun on race relations
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21:15 notjack if I craft a perl6 program using MONKEY_TYPING, spin up a million instances and let them run for a million years, do I have to share the book royalties with Larry?
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21:17 timotimo m)
21:24 diakopter notjack: but how would anyone know which book to read?
21:33 Ulti http://blog.brentlaabs.com/2013/05/how-​to-start-hacking-on-rakudo-perl-6.html  this might be worth advertising or markdownafying for the rakudo docs
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21:58 * jnthn home