Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-07-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 jnthn 'night, #perl6
00:11 timotimo night jnthn
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00:31 timotimo enh. i think i worked myself into a corner. now i don't know where my error comes from ... somewhere an NQPMu snuck in
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00:41 * timotimo finds out that serialise_array and serialize_aos are actually still needed :(
00:44 dalek nqp: 173dc64 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/ (2 files):
00:44 dalek nqp: Change name sprintfAddHandler to sprintfaddargumenthandler.
00:44 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/173dc64dd6
00:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 492feb2 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Cool.pm:
00:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Change name sprintfAddHandler to sprintfaddargumenthandler.
00:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/492feb210f
01:13 * timotimo is building all of p6doc with the new code now
01:14 timotimo hardly any add_constant, mostly just $*W.find_symbol([...]).new(...)
01:14 timotimo hum. i have a string in a twine that should be an object instead :|
01:32 BenGoldberg .ping
01:33 BenGoldberg where is yoleaux?
01:33 BenGoldberg preflex: seen yoleaux
01:33 preflex yoleaux was last seen on #perl6 1 day, 3 hours, 35 minutes and 17 seconds ago, saying: There is no ping command; nor can this be construed as a response.
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01:36 TimToady then it disappeared in a puff of logic
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01:40 timotimo turns out i just verschlimmbessert the pod code
01:41 timotimo hopefully i can make it all work out tomorrow
01:41 timotimo gm.
01:41 timotimo hm*
01:42 timotimo can full pod blocks be attached to things oin perl code? or just pod strings with formatting codes?
01:45 BenGoldberg r: my @a = 1..*; say @a.infinite, @a.uniq.infinite, @a.squish.infinite, (map { -$_ }, @a).infinite;
01:45 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«True(Mu)(Mu)(Mu)␤»
01:45 timotimo computer says no
01:46 timotimo meaning only formatted strings
01:46 timotimo i wonder if that will turn out to be a deficiency
01:46 timotimo or if perhaps i missed another way to attach docs
01:50 timotimo indeed the brackets would allow nested blocks so i was wrong
01:50 timotimo good to know
01:55 timotimo do i understand correctly that :margin allows you to put parts of text at differing columns in thevsame block?
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02:22 raiph timotimo: "not sure i made clear to him how objectively far along rakudo is nowadays" -- how far along do you think it is?
02:25 timotimo raiph: "I REALLY LOVE PLAYING WITH IT" is totally objective, no?
02:29 raiph totally :)
02:36 timotimo i'm willing to invest more time into pod6 because i like it a bit better than for example markdown
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03:00 sorear o/
03:12 JimmyZ \o
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06:19 TimToady jnthn: it's not clear to me why all of the stringy substrs shouldn't just be called substr, assuming that doesn't interfere badly with type inference or some such
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08:03 tadzik good morning #perl6
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09:13 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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09:37 jnthn o/
09:38 arnsholt 'lo
09:38 arnsholt jnthn: Should I have to do something to get the dyncall ops loaded in plain NQP?
09:40 jnthn arnsholt: You mean, besides having mappings for them in Compiler.nqp?
09:40 arnsholt Yah
09:41 arnsholt I'm writing a test file (using Parrot NQP) and it seems to not recognise the op
09:41 arnsholt Do I have to .loadlib something perhaps?
09:41 jnthn oh...Parrot
09:42 jnthn yeah, there they need to get a loadlib
09:42 jnthn Passing --vm-libs=nqp_dyncall or so is one way
09:42 arnsholt That'll do for now, thanks!
09:47 arnsholt Hmm. Looks like --vm-libs is no more, but pir::loadlib will do for now, I guess
09:48 arnsholt Cross-platform can wait
09:49 arnsholt Blah, that's not an op either
09:49 dalek Perlito: f04d32c | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (9 files):
09:49 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - keep track of existing namespaces for indirect-object parser; namespace cleanup
09:49 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/f04d32c3e1
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10:05 jnthn arnsholt: oh, without the hyphen
10:06 jnthn --vmlibs
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11:30 dalek nqp: 8f912e2 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/ (4 files):
11:30 dalek nqp: VMArray should serialize its type.
11:30 dalek nqp:
11:30 dalek nqp: This fixes the issue with the utf8/utf16/utf32 types in the new Buf
11:30 dalek nqp: implementation.
11:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8f912e2e8f
11:30 dalek nqp: 91720fe | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/P6 (2 files):
11:30 dalek nqp: Get P6int/P6num to take/keep bit size.
11:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/91720febfb
11:30 dalek nqp: 2ea09b8 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6​/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/VMArray (4 files):
11:30 dalek nqp: Compact int8/int16/int32 array storage.
11:30 dalek nqp:
11:30 dalek nqp: This means a buf8/utf8/blob8 will actually be a byte array in memory.
11:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2ea09b8e6f
11:31 jnthn arnsholt: 91720fe is probably helpful to your nativecall work :)
11:39 jnthn afk for a bit
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13:27 arnsholt jnthn: Oh, super! Cheers!
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13:29 ggoebel2 An article on why javascript (and dynamic languages using GC) aren't currently up to muster on mobile devices and the performance challenges they face: http://sealedabstract.com/rants​/why-mobile-web-apps-are-slow/
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13:39 bonsaikitten ggoebel2: pretty much nonsense
13:39 bonsaikitten "when I do stupid things the results are stupid"
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13:44 colomon jnthn: speaking of weird results, I sometimes run out of memory compiling jakudo on my Mac.  8 gigs of ram, 33 gigs of hard drive space.
13:47 tadzik arnsholt: ping
13:50 tadzik arnsholt: do you feel like some beer today? :)
13:54 jnthn colomon: I suspect you're not really running out of memory, just hitting a heap size limit
13:56 jnthn ggoebel2, bonsaikitten: The bits on GC performance relative to how much memory it's allowed to use match what I've seen in various situations, fwiw.
14:05 colomon jnthn: the thing I find scary about the situation is I then hit make again and everything works.
14:07 jnthn colomon: OK, that's weird.
14:08 mst tadzik: YES
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14:18 grondilu 'our $someVar is export = *' <-  is that NYI or something?
14:19 jnthn correct
14:19 grondilu ok
14:19 jnthn constant foo is export # does work
14:19 * grondilu tries that
14:20 tadzik mst: are you in Oslo?
14:20 mst tadzik: no, but I'm still going to drink beer today :)
14:20 tadzik fair enough :)
14:24 arnsholt tadzik: Beer would be cool, but sadly I'm not in Oslo today
14:25 arnsholt How long are you in Oslo?
14:31 tadzik arnsholt: until thursday
14:31 tadzik and contrary to my initial expectations, I'll probably have plenty of time during the week as well :)
14:37 timotimo \o/
14:38 dalek nqp: 92197db | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
14:38 dalek nqp: Add nqp::encode(...) op for encoding to a buffer.
14:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/92197dbeeb
14:40 timotimo yays! :)
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 958ece3 | jnthn++ | src/core/ (4 files):
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Get Str.encode working for new Buf implementation.
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf:
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf: It now also returns utf8/utf16/utf32 types when appropriate, falling
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf: back to blob8 for the rest of the cases. With this, both unpack.t and
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf: pack.t now pass on JVM (will need some work on Parrot to get things to
14:40 dalek rakudo/rebuf: work again there, though).
14:41 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/958ece317b
14:46 * jnthn guesses trying to decode a utf8/utf16/utf32 as if they were anything else should just fail
14:46 arnsholt jnthn++ # nqp::encode
14:47 arnsholt I agree. It should throw an exception of some kind
14:47 arnsholt Trying to magically recover from badly encoded data isn't going to be fun (and will likely cause all kinds of backwards compat headaches later on)
14:47 jnthn *nod*
14:48 jnthn Well, this is the specy-ish Buf/Blob etc implementation attempt so far, so we get to figure out the interesting corner cases :)
14:48 jnthn It's easier to explore 'em with an impl, though :)
14:48 arnsholt tadzik: Cool. We should be able to get some beers during the week then. I'm back at work on monday. You at the Oslo Opera office for a bit?
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15:09 tadzik arnsholt: yeah, I'm sent here to work with the rest of the team
15:20 dalek nqp: 3fde283 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
15:20 dalek nqp: First pass at nqp::decode(...).
15:20 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3fde283c28
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 36a3460 | jnthn++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Add decode for new Buf implementation.
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf:
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Again, will need some work to get this supported on Parrot too. Also
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf: added .Str that works to utf8/utf16/utf32 types since they carry their
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf: encoding around with them.
15:22 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/36a3460b59
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15:30 * [Coke] yawns
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15:38 dispareil Hi everyone ....i want to know about the future prospects of Perl 6
15:47 mst 'pretty f*cking awesome'
15:48 [Coke] msg++
15:48 [Coke] ... msT++
15:52 mst people are having awesome fun, exploring awesome ideas, the latest VM work shows a path to passing 'fast enough' for a bunch more problems than previously
15:54 [Coke] dispareil: did you have a more specific question?
15:54 [Coke] anyone here that's familiar with java's ProcessBuilder?
15:55 woolfy mst++
15:56 mst dispareil: it's notable that I'm a happy perl5 programmer and fairly known as being relatively skeptical of the perl6 project's chances of being -my- choice of next language to use
15:56 n0den1te [Coke]: qx and backticks?
15:56 mst dispareil: but really, things are looking very cool at the moment and even if I never go from 'skeptical' to 'believer' I really enjoy hanging out here and sharing ideas :)
16:00 [Coke] n0den1te: I'm trying to polish off the shell() implementation, but yes.
16:01 n0den1te [Coke]: cool, what did you want to know about PB? Maybe I can help there. :)
16:03 [Coke] let me gist something.
16:08 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/6045565
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16:09 [Coke] It seems that the env. I'm creating is not being passed along.
16:10 [Coke] (apologies for the large amount of debugging output)
16:10 n0den1te oldest form of debugging. :)
16:11 n0den1te okay, so when you spawn the shell command you want to inherit the parent's environment?
16:11 TimToady actually, I believe the oldest form of that required tweezers
16:12 lizmat magnetic ones, at that :-)
16:12 n0den1te TimToady: Ah, I'm too young to remember those. :-)
16:13 * TimToady has seen computers with vacuum tubes running for real work
16:14 TimToady though I'm not old enough to have witnessed the moth incident :)
16:15 TimToady n0den1te: by default, you pass on what your parent gave you, but a process also needs to be able to override part or all of it
16:16 [Coke] n0den1te: yes.
16:17 [Coke] well. This is perl, so I want to inherit the parent's %*ENV, not the actual java System.getEnv
16:19 n0den1te [Coke]:  the XX prefixed items are where you have put entries from parent's ThreadContext.
16:19 n0den1te I don't know nqp's API well enough to say - what you got out of iter is from System.getEnv props.
16:19 TimToady also note that %*ENV, as a dynamic variable, is designed to be inherited within Perl 6 as well, so you probably want whatever %*ENV is visible at the point of whatever is spawned
16:19 [Coke] the XX are testing whether or not it was impacting new entries or just old entries. no impact - they all get the old value, not the new value.
16:20 [Coke] TimToady: one impossible problem at a time.
16:20 [Coke] (also, I'm pretty sure we're getting that for "free" with the current setup)
16:20 [Coke] (we're passing in the dynamic env when the nqp opcode is invoked.)
16:20 TimToady (if a spawner wants the original ENV that our process inherited, it can always say something like: my %*ENV = %PROCESS::ENV;
16:21 TimToady [Coke]: okay, good
16:21 n0den1te [Coke]: well, if you *really* want to wipe environment with a new set of items, you can look into Runtime's exec family of methods.
16:21 n0den1te They all call into PB under the hood.
16:21 [Coke] n0den1te: from the docs, I should be able to get the env, clear it, and then set new values.
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16:40 n0den1te [Coke]: Yes, I had that doc open here. I just wrote a small test to verify those docs were right.
16:42 n0den1te [Coke]: there's nothing that stands out to me from your gist as to the error.
16:44 n0den1te [Coke]: except maybe that you're not getting *ENV propagated back into your shell()'s context.
16:45 [Coke] I just whipped up a small example that works fine. :|
16:46 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/6045565 //WTF.java
16:46 [Coke] (if I run that with "/usr/bin/env", I get the expected output)
16:47 n0den1te [Coke]: That'd work fine (I tried that out here too). What I meant was, somehow the mehtod doesn't see that *ENV<key> was modified and the ThreadContext sees the default shell env vars.
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16:48 [Coke] but it does see that it was modified - when I'm looping over the keys of $*ENV, the correct value is there.
16:48 [Coke] arglebargle, no it isnt.
16:48 [Coke] thank you
16:50 n0den1te [Coke]: nice, we all have our days. :)
16:50 [Coke] TimToady: this is how I'm invoking the op from rakudo:
16:50 [Coke] $status = nqp::shell($cmd, nqp::getattr(%*ENV, EnumMap, '$!storage'));
16:51 [Coke] wondering if there is a better way to spcify the ENV there, or a better way to ask for the internal java storage.
16:53 jnthn [Coke]: Looks right to me at first glance
16:53 [Coke] jnthn: it should, it came from you. ;)
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16:54 jnthn ;)
16:54 jnthn Well, I'm not equally smart every day :)
16:55 * TimToady compensates by being equally smartmouthed every day :)
16:56 * TimToady is usually not equally smart on any day, let alone every day...
16:57 dalek nqp: fe29d89 | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/reprs/VMArray.c:
16:57 dalek nqp: Missing GC marking in VMArray REPR on Parrot.
16:57 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fe29d8945e
16:57 jnthn *sigh* it still segfaults...
16:59 arnsholt nqp/t/nativecall/01-basic.t now has one passing testcase \o/
17:00 arnsholt jnthn: Would you be sad if all the tests in the NQP on Parrot were run under 'nqp --vmlibs=nqp_dyncall_ops'?
17:01 jnthn arnsholt: Could live with it
17:01 arnsholt tadzik: Cool. I work at the university, so we can meet up on the subway heading into the city. You have any preference for monday or wednesday?
17:02 arnsholt Spiffy. 'Cause that's by far the easiest way to get the NativeCall tests running properly on Parrot
17:03 arnsholt I'll see if I can come up with something more clever, but that's the dead easy way. Just make it prove --exec '$(NQP_EXE) --vmlibs=nqp_dyncall_ops' ...
17:06 jnthn Ugh. Now I understand why VMArray deserialization segfaults...
17:06 * jnthn figures he'll fix that after dinner
17:23 ajr joined #perl6
17:28 diakopter jnthn: why was it? :)
17:42 TimToady it was because he hasn't yet fixed it after dinner
17:44 * n0den1te groans
18:20 diakopter :)
18:33 rindolf joined #perl6
18:52 rindolf joined #perl6
18:54 fgomez joined #perl6
19:05 * jnthn back
19:05 diakopter wb
19:05 * jnthn grumbles about the warm weather
19:24 tadzik yeah, I got to Norway and all I got was warm weather too. I feel cheated :P
19:24 tadzik arnsholt: I don't have plans for either so far
19:24 lizmat if it's any consolation: the coming for days in NL are going tobe 30+
19:24 lizmat four
19:31 jnthn eek
19:32 arnsholt tadzik: How about Wednesday, then? Should I pick a brew pub, or do you have some places you'd like to visit?
19:33 dalek roast: 0a12a9c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | integration/99problems-21-to-30.t:
19:33 dalek roast: pick() is now implemented
19:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0a12a9c165
19:36 lizmat r: my Any $a; say $a.list; my Hash $h; say $h.list # there is a discrepancy here that smells
19:36 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«(Any)␤Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method pairs at src/gen/CORE.setting:7181␤  in method list at src/gen/CORE.setting:7175␤  in block  at /tmp/dRd2wyGXC4:1␤␤»
19:37 lizmat FWIW, I think both should generate an empty list, the latter of type Hash
19:38 lizmat jnthn: we figured not going to Portland would give us some cooler weather
19:38 lizmat but instead of us going to Portland, the Portland weather came to us
19:40 tadzik arnsholt: I've no idea for a place :)
19:41 jnthn lizmat: Sounds like...
19:44 lizmat jnthn: in EnumMap::pairs it says: "return unless nqp::defined($!storage);"  This bombs with "Cannot look up attributes in a type object" in nqp::defined
19:44 lizmat so I guess the intent there *was* to return an empty list
19:46 jnthn Isn't it the $!storage that'd bomb?
19:46 lizmat you could also say that...
19:47 lizmat anyway, the test seems bombing in a way that is not intended, I would think
19:47 jnthn r: say EnumMap.pairs
19:47 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method pairs at src/gen/CORE.setting:7181␤  in block  at /tmp/Op0nABViNL:1␤␤»
19:48 jnthn Probably Paris should only be defined on EnumMap:D
19:49 jnthn *paris
19:49 lizmat well, from you guidance, I have refrained from turning methods into multi methods
19:49 jnthn um. pairs
19:49 jnthn You can :D on single dispatch too :)
19:49 lizmat we'll always have pairs  :-)
19:49 TimToady Pairs in the the spring.
19:50 lizmat jnthn: will try that
19:51 raiph joined #perl6
19:52 jnthn grr, Rakudo on Parrot takes at lesat twice as long to build as Rakudo on JVM...
19:54 lizmat anyway, suppose I have a list of Hashes: my Hash @l
19:54 dalek nqp: c37b962 | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/serialization.c:
19:54 dalek nqp: Set type object STable earlier in deserialization.
19:54 dalek nqp:
19:54 dalek nqp: Otherwise, things like typed arrays find the types they want to look
19:54 dalek nqp: at the storage_spec of are not yet complete enough and explode.
19:54 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c37b96227f
19:54 lizmat jnthn: is that to fix the pb I found?
19:55 jnthn lizmat: No, it's part of my work to get the new Buf stuff I'm doing to work on Parrot.
19:55 lizmat ah, ok
19:57 lizmat back to what I was saying: so you have a list of Hashes @l, you can then *not* just simply do a keys/kv/pairs on any element, because they might bomb if not properly initialized yet
19:58 lizmat you would *have* to say something like "my Hash @l is default ({})" to make this work
19:58 lizmat that seems counter-intuitive to me
19:59 rindolf joined #perl6
19:59 lizmat possibly we could make "is default ({})" the default for Hash ?
19:59 cognominal joined #perl6
19:59 lizmat conversely "is default([])" the default for List/Array ?
20:05 lizmat jnthn: adding the EnumMap:D:, turns the error into "Parameter '' requires an instance, but a type object was passed"
20:06 jnthn Yup
20:06 jnthn We can probably be smarter when we know it's the invocant
20:07 jnthn But it's failing to reach the method rather than failing inside of it now, at least.
20:07 lizmat well, that's what I'm saying: it should return an empty something appropriate for the given method
20:08 raiph joined #perl6
20:08 jnthn I'm not convinced an undefined thing should magically pretend it's an empty thing...
20:09 lizmat r: my Hash %h; say %h<foo>.keys
20:09 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method pairs at src/gen/CORE.setting:7181␤  in method keys at src/gen/CORE.setting:7177␤  in block  at /tmp/rXs2KeQu2r:1␤␤»
20:10 lizmat in a similar P5 situation, this would just return an empty list
20:10 lizmat p5eval: my %h; keys %{ $h{foo}}
20:10 p5eval lizmat: 0
20:11 lizmat p5eval: my %h; ()=keys %{ $h{foo}}
20:11 p5eval lizmat: 0
20:11 lizmat p5eval: my %h; print keys %{ $h{foo}}
20:11 p5eval lizmat: 1
20:11 lizmat grrr
20:12 lizmat anyway, P5's "0" is the number of keys, not the first key as it is currently in P6
20:12 lizmat p5eval: my %h; my @a= keys %{ $h{foo}}; $#a
20:12 p5eval lizmat: -1
20:13 sftp joined #perl6
20:13 lizmat r: my %h; my @a= keys %h<foo>; say @a.end
20:13 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:13 lizmat r: my %h; my @a= keys %h<foo>; say @a.elems
20:13 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:14 lizmat p5eval: my %h; my @a= keys %{ $h{foo}}; 0+@a
20:14 p5eval lizmat: 0
20:14 lizmat so, in p5 we get an empty array, in perl 6 we got an array with one elemen
20:15 lizmat well, that is, if we *don't* type the hash.  If we *do* type the hash, it bombs
20:15 lizmat r: my Hash %h; my @a= keys %h<foo>; say @a.elems
20:15 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method pairs at src/gen/CORE.setting:7181␤  in method keys at src/gen/CORE.setting:7177␤  in sub keys at src/gen/CORE.setting:2122␤  in sub keys at src/gen/CORE.setting:2121␤  in block  at /tmp/ibkWfRPDXo:1␤␤»…
20:19 lizmat jnthn: if the invocant is defined, ten $!storage is always set, right ?
20:19 jnthn No
20:19 jnthn The underlying storage is lazily allocated
20:21 lizmat so guarding a method like "invert" with an EnumMap:D: will still bomb if the storage hasn't been allocated yet
20:22 lizmat r: myt Hash $h=()  # somewhat related, is this a rakudobu ?
20:22 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/AEi2uFGho9:1â�¤------> [32mmyt Hash [33mâ��[31m$h=()  # somewhat related, is this a rak[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤      â€¦
20:22 lizmat r: my Hash $h=()  # somewhat related, is this a rakudobu ?
20:23 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$h'; expected 'Hash' but got 'Parcel'␤  in block  at /tmp/UZvBZZPVsf:1␤␤»
20:23 jnthn lizmat: No, that's what the defiend check is for.
20:24 lizmat you mean the "return unless nqp::defined($!storage)", right?
20:24 jnthn yes
20:26 lizmat r: my Hash $h={}  # guess it should be thiss
20:26 camelia rakudo 492feb:  ( no output )
20:26 dalek nqp: abc88b3 | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/reprs/VMArray.c:
20:26 dalek nqp: Give VMArray its missing get_elem_stable.
20:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/abc88b37ec
20:26 dalek nqp: 4c6b793 | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/reprs/VMArray.c:
20:26 dalek nqp: Fix VMArray growth logic bug.
20:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4c6b793caf
20:28 lizmat r: my EnumMap $h; say $h.hash  # shouldn't this be (Hash) ?
20:28 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«(EnumMap)␤»
20:28 jnthn No. .list and .hash are "give me something listy/hashy", not expect coercions.
20:28 jnthn *exact
20:29 lizmat ok
20:32 lizmat TimToady: would you consider "my Hash $h is default({})" valid code?  having the default me {} rather than a simple value?
20:32 jnthn The sparse case of "my Hash @foo" is probably worth a spec question if there's no answer at present, though, with regard to things like .pairs.
20:33 lizmat ok, will write of a spec issue then
20:33 lizmat s/of/up/
20:37 lizmat n:  r: my Hash %h; my @a= keys %h<foo>; say @a.elems  # just curious
20:37 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:38 lizmat n: my Hash %h; my @a= keys %h<foo>; say @a.elems  # just curious
20:38 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:38 lizmat n: my Hash %h; my @a= keys %h<foo>; say @a # just curious
20:38 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:39 lizmat that doesn't feel right either, but at least it doesn't bomb
20:42 dalek nqp: 0c3febd | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/ (2 files):
20:42 dalek nqp: A few more missing VMArray pieces Buf needs.
20:42 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0c3febdd4b
20:43 ecocode joined #perl6
20:46 * timotimo works on a preliminary ugly-ish hack to make pod blocks get implicit indent if they are specced to.
20:47 mdxi joined #perl6
20:49 lizmat jnthn: FWIW, if I remove "return unless nqp::defined($!storage);" from EnumMap::pairs(EnumMap:D:), I get massive spectest failures
20:50 jnthn Yes, I'd imagine.
20:50 lizmat so it would seem that at some level, the code already depends on return an empty list on lack of $!storage
20:50 jnthn Yes, the point of adding the :D was to prevent the method being called on a type object, it's orthogonal to if $!storage is populated
20:51 lizmat so how do you create a Hash that is DEFINITE but doesn't have $!storage ?
20:51 jnthn Every hash starts that way, I think.
20:52 jnthn r: my %h; say nqp::defined(nqp::getattr(%h, EnumMap, '$!storage'))
20:52 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:52 mdxi left #perl6
20:53 lizmat r: my $h=Hash.new; say nqp::defined(nqp::getattr($h, EnumMap, '$!storage'))
20:53 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«Can not get attribute '$!storage' declared in class 'EnumMap' with this object␤  in block  at /tmp/S1a0WxnjDH:1␤␤»
20:54 jnthn $h has a scalar container around it
20:54 jnthn So you'd need nqp::decont($h) in the getattr
20:54 lizmat r: my $h=Hash.new; say nqp::defined(nqp::getattr(nqp::decont($h), EnumMap, '$!storage'))
20:54 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:55 lizmat gotcha
21:08 lizmat jnthn: the error message "Parameter '' requires an instance, but a type object was passed"
21:08 lizmat wouldn't that be better as "Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed"
21:09 lizmat or perhaps even better as "Cannot call "foo" on a type object" ?
21:09 jnthn lizmat: Yes, it would be.
21:10 jnthn Well, the invocant one at lesat is easy to do
21:10 lizmat ok, I'll go dig
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: c5d90d6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/EnumMap.pm:
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Standardized error where EnumMap type objects are used as invocant when they shouldn't
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c5d90d6bbd
21:18 ecocode` joined #perl6
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21:20 lizmat jnthn: in bind.c , if there is no param->variable_name, can I assume it is about the invocant ?
21:20 lizmat (line 478)
21:23 dalek Perlito: 754fd76 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
21:23 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - indirect-object parser works (" new Dog -> bark ")
21:23 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/754fd7667f
21:24 jnthn lizmat: No
21:24 jnthn lizmat: But param->flags has a "this is an invocant" flag in there somewhere.
21:24 lizmat aha, ok
21:25 jnthn (it's just a big bitmask thingy)
21:25 lizmat SIG_ELEM_INVOCANT
21:28 jnthn sounds like it
21:29 dalek nqp: 38cee07 | jnthn++ | src/vm/parrot/ (2 files):
21:29 dalek nqp: nqp::encode and nqp::decode on Parrot.
21:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/38cee073e4
21:31 timotimo cool :)
21:31 jnthn Missing: the operators, getting read/write IO operations that use Buf updated.
21:33 pupoque joined #perl6
21:39 lizmat r: Hash.pairs
21:39 camelia rakudo 492feb: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method pairs at src/gen/CORE.setting:7181␤  in block  at /tmp/GqyEutmyKK:1␤␤»
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: 819d371 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/vm/parrot/guts/bind.c:
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Make some lower level error message more understandable
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Hash.pairs now says
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom:   "Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed"
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: instead of:
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom:   "Parameter '' requires an instance, but a type object was passed"
21:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/819d371660
21:40 lizmat The above error (Cannot look up…) was already fixed with my previous commit
21:41 timotimo cool
21:41 timotimo good things are going on, i see.
21:44 yoleaux joined #perl6
21:44 diakopter .
21:47 jnthn TimToady: What should operators like ~, ~& and so forth do on Blob/Buf types when there are different kinds of thing on each side?
21:58 lizmat trying to interpret this error: Can not get attribute '$!infinite' declared in class 'List' with this object
21:59 lizmat does that mean that it knows that List.$!infinite exists, but that the invocant is not a List ?
21:59 jnthn It could mean that, yes
22:00 jnthn Note that all attribute lookups are fully qualified
22:00 jnthn So it just means "this attribute doesn't exist on the object you tried to look it up on"
22:01 lizmat hmmm… wonder how that would be possible, I mean
22:01 lizmat trying to optimize List.infinite, as it is being called a lot
22:02 jnthn Probably a screw-up when using nqp::getattr
22:02 jnthn OK. Note that using nqp::getattr(...) rather than writing $!infinite is not an optimization :)
22:02 jnthn In fact, it's currently the opposite
22:02 lizmat I mean, how can that method be called if the object is not ISA List ?
22:03 lizmat this is the diff:
22:03 lizmat -        self.DEFINITE && $!nextiter.defined && $!nextiter.infinite;
22:03 lizmat +        $!infinite //=
22:03 lizmat +          (self.DEFINITE && $!nextiter.defined && $!nextiter.infinite);
22:03 jnthn I can guess better if I can see what you're trying...
22:03 lizmat also: +    has Bool $!infinite;       # true: infinite list, false: not, undef: check
22:04 jnthn hmm
22:04 lizmat this is probably too naive, but it's failing for a reason I don't understand
22:09 lizmat it appears to happen on a circumfix {}
22:09 lizmat that in the end calls ListIter.infinite
22:10 lizmat and that calls "nqp::atpos($!rest,0).infinite" and then bombs
22:11 lizmat hmmm… this also explains some recursion I've seen when trying to put some debug code in infinite
22:12 lizmat .oO( trying to find out why my @a=1..Inf; @a.infinite returns true, but @a.uniq.infinite doesn't
22:14 lizmat I guess I forgot to mention this happens when setting is loaded
22:14 timotimo i'm almost at the point where i'd go and re-enable trimming the whitespace in pod blocks again.
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf: cb96e37 | jnthn++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Start to get Buf ops back in place.
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf:
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Since Buf ~~ Blob, they are now really blob ops. Done some tweaks to
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf: try and adapt a little better to the new range of types available.
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Unfortunately, the ops all seem to hit a multi-dispatch conflict.
22:20 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cb96e37651
22:25 lizmat "RPA of elements remaining to be reified"  what is an RPA ?
22:27 lizmat jnthn: if something is supposed to return a Bool, but can't decide on True/False, wouldn't it be better to return Bool, rather than Mu ?
22:29 lizmat or maybe better a question for TimToday :-)
22:30 lizmat *TimToady   :-)
22:31 lizmat r: say (1..Inf).uniq.infinite  # shouldn't this be Bool rather than Mu ?
22:31 camelia rakudo 819d37: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
22:32 timotimo Resizable Parrot Array iirc
22:32 timotimo actually, Resizable PMC Array
22:33 lue joined #perl6
22:34 timotimo one day i'll write an ikiwiki clone based off of pod6 ...
22:34 lizmat timotimo: I guess that's Parrot's way of saying "my @a"
22:35 dalek specs: a0ec33f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
22:35 dalek specs: Add RPA
22:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a0ec33f58f
22:35 timotimo yeah, pretty much
22:35 lizmat afk for 30 mins or so
22:35 timotimo nqp uses it internally afaict
22:36 timotimo or ... it uses qrpa
22:37 lue timotimo: better yet, improve november to use Pod6 :)
22:40 timotimo i know nothing about november :|
22:40 timotimo the only instance of it seems to be in japanese
22:40 timotimo which i also know nothing about :)
22:41 lue https://github.com/viklund/november/ (hasn't been touched in years, sadly)
22:44 timotimo pod6 isn't entirely there yet, though
22:44 timotimo especially formattingcodes in table cells are sorely missing.
22:44 timotimo well ... sorely missing mostly from the S26 rendering.
22:44 timotimo i'm considering implementing formattingcodes that don't span lines now and proper multiline formattingcodes later.
22:45 timotimo damn it, =for output squashes everything into one line
22:51 jnthn lizmat: These days, it really means "the VM's low level array-ish thing"
22:51 timotimo i think pod block parsing needs to be rewritten in a more configuration-driven way. there's currently a 1:1 relationship with "is code block (and does not allow formatting codes)" and "will preserve justification and preformatting", but output and input blocks ought to be preformatted but allow all fcodes
22:51 jnthn lizmat: In JVM and Moar impls it's something with VMArray REPR
22:51 timotimo at the moment there's the "ALLOW_FCODES" thing i came up with which could be a short term solution, but ... enh.
22:52 lizmat so, should I remove mention of RPA from the comments ?  and replace it with the more generic VMArray ?
22:52 lizmat or VMArray REPR
22:52 lizmat ?
22:52 jnthn lizmat: Well, but that ain't true on Parrot
22:53 lizmat well, this is in src/core/ListIter, so VM agnostic
22:53 jnthn "low level array" or "VM's array type" maybe
22:53 lizmat VM's array type sounds good to me
22:55 timotimo do i need the [ ] after the || in  [ "foo" | "bar" || [ "baz" | "quux"]
22:55 timotimo ]
22:55 timotimo what about before?
22:57 jnthn || is looser than |
22:58 timotimo thank you
23:00 lue joined #perl6
23:04 lizmat jnthn: "$type = 'RPA' if $type eq 'ResizablePMCArray';"  seems to be a parrotism, that should be surrounded bu a #if parrot, right ?
23:04 lizmat by
23:05 lizmat src/core/Mu:714
23:07 jnthn lizmat: hm, yeah
23:09 jnthn Notice how $type is set is also VM specific :)
23:10 jnthn 'night, #perl6
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 9db2d52 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ListIter.pm:
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Make ListIter.infinite return Bool when it can't make up it's mind.
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom:
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: This at least makes (1..Inf).uniq.infinite return Bool rather than Mu
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9db2d5212e
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: d1c591c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Only do this parrotism when Parrot is the VM (in DUMP)
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d1c591cac0
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 4a977dc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (4 files):
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: In comments, Change Parrot-centric mention of RPA to more general VM's array
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4a977dcd06
23:11 lizmat gnight jnthn!
23:13 lizmat jnthn: "Notice how $type is set is also VM specific :)" exactly :-)
23:17 Khisanth joined #perl6
23:20 lue joined #perl6
23:27 lizmat .oO( ooh, s/it's/its/ in commit message of 9db2d52)
23:29 lizmat r: say Iterable^mro
23:29 camelia rakudo 819d37: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    mro used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:29 lizmat r: say Iterable.^mro
23:29 camelia rakudo 819d37: OUTPUT«(Iterable) (Any) (Mu)␤»
23:29 lizmat r: say ListIter.^mro
23:29 camelia rakudo 819d37: OUTPUT«(ListIter) (Iterator) (Iterable) (Any) (Mu)␤»
23:29 lizmat r: say List.^mro
23:29 camelia rakudo 819d37: OUTPUT«(List) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
23:30 lizmat hmmm
23:32 * timotimo coded himself into a corner and can't get out
23:33 timotimo there needs to be a table or something rather than rules full of special cases.
23:33 * lizmat takes away the fourth wall
23:33 timotimo output and input can contain code blocks, but are themselves to be parsed with preformatting ... but the rules that do preformatting (those are called *_raw) will never accept nested blocks ...
23:34 timotimo welp ... time for a dramatic restructuring ...
23:35 lizmat .tell jnthn: it feels to me that in some cases List.infinite is being called on a Iterable object
23:35 yoleaux lizmat: What kind of a name is "jnthn:"?!
23:35 lizmat .tell jnthn it feels to me that in some cases List.infinite is being called on a Iterable object
23:35 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
23:36 lizmat .tell jnthn when judging by the code, it should call Iterablle.infinite
23:36 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
23:36 lizmat .tell jnthn could this have to do with the fact that Iterable.infinite returns Mu ?
23:36 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
23:39 grondilu joined #perl6
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23:52 lizmat gnight #perl6!
23:57 woolfy good night lizmat
23:58 colomon joined #perl6

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