Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-07-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:15 lue joined #perl6
00:29 TimToady .tell lizmat These days Nil is considered the best way to indicate "missing information"
00:29 yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
00:30 raiph joined #perl6
00:31 dalek perl6-roast-data: c0eca35 | coke++ | / (5 files):
00:31 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:31 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/c0eca3509f
00:31 [Coke] rakudo.parrot failing 62 tests (2nd day running)
00:33 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
00:35 [Coke] can't get the test that's abort to abort when running it by hand
00:35 zacts joined #perl6
00:36 zacts can rakudo also implement scheme or haskell?
00:36 TimToady .tell jnthn If the two sides are semantically different (utf8 vs buf8), it should fail; if they're merely unit-sized differently (blob8 vs blob16) ops like ~ still fail but integer-based ops like ~& are allowed ot upgrade both sides to 16 bits
00:36 yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
00:36 zacts and if so, could you combine scheme/haskell with perl6?
00:37 [Coke] zacts: it's plausible, sure.
00:37 TimToady zacts: anything is possible, but I sincerely doubt you'll find anyone willing to implement Haskell on top of Perl 6
00:37 TimToady Scheme maybe
00:37 [Coke] (note that if you want to run perl6 on haskell, there's also pugs, though it's showing its age.)
00:37 zacts ah, ok cool
00:37 [Coke] TimToady: I got the impression he was saying it the other way 'round.
00:37 zacts well, pugs is also interesting, but yeah
00:38 zacts well, even scheme would be cool.
00:38 TimToady there are certainly other ways of running two languages together than implementing one in terms of the other
00:39 zacts TimToady: no I don't mean implementing haskell or scheme with the perl6 language
00:39 zacts I guess I my understanding was that parrot could also implement other languages
00:39 TimToady well, rakudo is perl6, so your first question more or less asked that
00:39 zacts sorry I typed my question wrong
00:39 zacts s/rakudo/parrot/
00:40 TimToady ah, well, that's a bird of a different color
00:40 zacts hehe punny
00:41 TimToady certainly the intent was to allow the implementation of many dynamic languages on top of parrot, but the vision exceeded the reality in a number of respects
00:43 zacts ok, interesting
00:53 TimToady there is always this danger with bottom-up design that you will analyze the problem into the wrong abstractions for your eventual users, especially when you're not sure who your users are going to be
00:54 TimToady it's a vast oversimplification to say that that is what happened with parrot, of course, but there's some truth there
00:55 TimToady from the parrort perspective, it didn't help that their users didn't really know what they wanted at the beginning either :)
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01:00 zacts TimToady: do you think that parrot will be successful for perl6 nonetheless?
01:01 TimToady there are many definitions of "success"
01:01 TimToady by some of them, it has already succeeded
01:01 TimToady by others, it probably never will
01:02 zacts hehe ok
01:02 TimToady unless parrot can redefine itself to be the VM of choice for at least one popular language
01:03 perigrin and define "popular" in a way that people agree with it
01:03 perigrin well a majority of people agree with it.
01:04 [Coke] Certainly it's been critical for getting rakudo to where it is today.
01:04 TimToady doesn't even have to be a majority, as long as enough employers are willing to hire
01:04 TimToady [Coke]: yes, in that respect it was a big success
01:04 zacts so why didn't pugs evolve further?
01:05 zacts was it too slow?
01:05 zacts was it a prototype?
01:05 TimToady no champion
01:05 TimToady well, most people don't set out to write a prototype :)
01:05 zacts ok
01:05 geekosaur pugs was pretty much a one-person project. that person got ill and nobody else has been able to decipher the code :)
01:05 TimToady but everything is a prototype for what comes after :)
01:06 geekosaur (several of us have tried...)
01:06 zacts I see
01:06 perigrin geekosaur: if it were anybody but Audrey you were talking about I'd argue that point
01:07 zacts so in general would you say that parrot is more well designed than the internals of perl5?
01:07 zacts I've heard that perl5 source code is nutty to read..
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01:07 TimToady oddly, rakudo on parrot has a similar problem, but instead of things being hidden in the abstractions, they're hidden in a very large codebase, with many operations that interact mysteriously with each other
01:08 TimToady zacts: s/ to read//
01:08 * geekosaur shrugs
01:09 geekosaur I don't claim to be a Haskell expert. I do well enough with xmonad, but that;s about 5% Haskell and 95% X11 and I'm fine with the latter :)
01:09 TimToady zacts: the perl5 source code was successful insofar as it was the preferred VM for a popular language :)
01:09 perigrin TimToady: s/ source code//; # probably fair too.
01:09 geekosaur it's not difficult to confuse me with complex Haskell code
01:10 geekosaur and I seem to be one of the better Haskell folks here, which leaves us kinda stuck with respect to pugs
01:10 perigrin geekosaur: I do pretty well with Perl and Audrey can lose me quickly there.
01:10 geekosaur every so often I trawl in #haskell to see if anyone is interested in helping out, sadly no bites as yet
01:12 zacts so was the person who initially designed pugs a mad genius?
01:12 TimToady well, pugs was a brilliant hack, but haskell programmers tend not to think of themselves as hackers...
01:13 TimToady zacts: everyone here is a mad genius in their own way :)
01:13 zacts :-)
01:13 zacts TimToady: and you are a mad genius in multiple ways timtoady.
01:14 zacts as your nick seems to imply
01:14 TimToady yes, well, sometimes madness is its own reward...
01:15 zacts :D
01:15 perigrin "We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad ... "
01:17 colomon That passage is one of my little boy's favorite passages.  He likes to play Luke Skywalker (him) and the Chessire Cat (me).
01:18 colomon ack, spelling
01:18 [Coke] what is the set version of this:
01:18 [Coke] r: say 16 - (1|2|3|4);
01:18 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«any(15, 14, 13, 12)␤»
01:18 perigrin colomon: my daughter was (recently) reading it to my son.
01:19 [Coke] r: say 16 >>-<< set<1 2 3 4>;
01:19 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«Lists on both side of non-dwimmy hyperop of infix:<-> are not of the same length␤left: 1 elements, right: 4 elements␤  in sub hyper at src/gen/CORE.setting:14608␤  in sub hyper at src/gen/CORE.setting:14596␤  in block  at src/gen/CORE.setting:14587␤  in block  at /…
01:19 [Coke] r: say 16 <<-<< set<1 2 3 4>;
01:19 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«16 16 16 16␤»
01:19 colomon [Coke]: there isn't really a set version of that
01:20 TimToady r: say set 16 X- 1,2,3,4;
01:20 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«set(15, 14, 13, 12)␤»
01:20 TimToady that's about as close as you can get
01:20 TimToady but sets don't know how to subtract members
01:20 TimToady *subtract from
01:22 TimToady n: say 16 <<-<< set<1 2 3 4>;  # this may tell you more what happened here
01:22 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«16 16 16 16␤»
01:23 TimToady or not :)
01:23 TimToady std: say 16 <<-<< set<1 2 3 4>;  # this may tell you more what happened here
01:23 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤The 'set' listop may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to clarify) at /tmp/LNdRh_dm6U line 1:â�¤------> [32msay 16 <<-<< set[33mâ��[31m<1 2 3 4>;  # this may tell you more wha[0mâ�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  Use …
01:23 TimToady r: say set<1>.WHAT
01:23 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«(Bool)␤»
01:24 TimToady r: say set<1>
01:24 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«False␤»
01:24 TimToady basically, that means set()<1>
01:25 TimToady which is why std disallows it
01:25 TimToady r: say 16 <<-<< set <1 2 3 4>;
01:25 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«("1" => 15, "2" => 15, "3" => 15, "4" => 15).hash␤»
01:26 [Coke] r: say (18 X- 3,5).sort.uniq.grep({*<7})
01:26 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Whitespace required before < operatorâ�¤at /tmp/cLE4PGHNP0:1â�¤------> [32msay (18 X- 3,5).sort.uniq.grep({*<7})[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
01:26 colomon it's taking the set as a hash?
01:26 TimToady there's that darn hash subscripting again :)
01:27 TimToady colomon: seems like
01:27 [Coke] r: say (18 X- 3,5).sort.uniq.grep: {*<7}
01:27 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Whitespace required before < operatorâ�¤at /tmp/a2We8BzwMa:1â�¤------> [32msay (18 X- 3,5).sort.uniq.grep: {*<7}[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
01:27 TimToady when all else fails, read the error message
01:27 colomon TimToady: that's quite unfortunate in this case
01:28 TimToady r: say 16 <<-<< set(<1 2 3 4>).list;
01:28 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«15 14 13 12␤»
01:28 TimToady it seems unfortunate that hyper would choose the hash nature over the list nature in this case, yes
01:29 TimToady seems to violate the notion that hyper is based on Iterability, and that's more of a list concept than a hash concept
01:30 [Coke] rakudo.jvm's REPL gets very upset about that missing whitespace. goes into an infinite loop complaining.
01:31 TimToady r: my &fromx = 16 - *; say set(<1 2 3 4>)».from16
01:31 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«No such method 'from16' for invocant of type 'Bool'␤  in method dispatch:<hyper> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1119␤  in block  at /tmp/4z88Jv0TUQ:1␤␤»
01:31 TimToady r: my &fromx = 16 - *; say set(<1 2 3 4>)».&from16
01:31 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    &from16 used at line 1. Did you mean '&fromx'?â�¤â�¤Â»
01:31 TimToady r: my &from16 = 16 - *; say set(<1 2 3 4>)».&from16
01:31 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«("1" => 15, "2" => 15, "3" => 15, "4" => 15).hash␤»
01:31 TimToady still seems buggy
01:32 colomon is hyper supposed to work on hash keys or values?
01:33 TimToady for an ordinary hash, the values
01:33 colomon until we spec a better way, that's what's happening here
01:34 TimToady r: my &from16 = 16 - *; say { :a(1), :b(2), :c(3), :d(4) }».&from16
01:34 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«("a" => 15, "b" => 14, "c" => 13, "d" => 12).hash␤»
01:34 TimToady like that
01:34 TimToady 16 - True, yeah
01:34 colomon r: my &from16 = 16 - *; say { :a(True), :b(True), :c(True), d:(True)) }».&from16
01:34 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'has_compile_time_value' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
01:35 colomon r: my &from16 = 16 - *; say { :a(True), :b(True), :c(True), d:(True) }».&from16
01:35 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'has_compile_time_value' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
01:35 TimToady d:
01:35 TimToady interesting failure though
01:35 TimToady r: foo:(42)
01:35 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'has_compile_time_value' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
01:36 colomon r: my &from16 = 16 - *; say { :a(True), :b(True), :c(True), :d(True) }».&from16
01:36 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«("a" => 15, "b" => 15, "c" => 15, "d" => 15).hash␤»
01:38 TimToady nr: for set(<a b c>) { .WHAT.say }
01:38 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(Set)␤»
01:38 camelia ..rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«(Str)␤(Str)␤(Str)␤»
01:40 TimToady nr: for set(<a b c>) »~» 'x'{ .WHAT.say }
01:40 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/dP2CAaSTH0:1â�¤------> [32mfor set(<a b c>) »~» 'x'{ .WHAT.say }[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argumentsâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statement modifierâ�¤        statemen…
01:40 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Missing block at /tmp/Ku0mvx1lqR line 1 (EOF):�------> [32mfor set(<a b c>) »~» 'x'{ .WHAT.say }[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m��Parse failed��»
01:40 TimToady nr: for set(<a b c>) »~» 'x' { .WHAT.say }
01:40 camelia rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«(Pair)␤(Pair)␤(Pair)␤»
01:40 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
01:40 TimToady nr: for set(<a b c>) X~ 'x' { .WHAT.say }
01:41 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
01:41 camelia ..rakudo 4a977d: OUTPUT«(Str)␤(Str)␤(Str)␤»
01:41 diakopter heh
01:41 TimToady there is a bit of...variability...
01:41 diakopter which magnifying glass are we focusing on camelia today
01:42 TimToady the one of "what does it mean to iterate a set?"
01:43 TimToady seems hypers disagree with lists on that subject, and niecza disagrees with rakudo
01:44 TimToady n: say set(<a b c>) X~ 'x'
01:44 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«a b cx␤»
01:44 zacts TimToady: does pugs support tail recursion of subroutine calls?
01:44 TimToady n: say set(<a b c>)[] X~ 'x'
01:44 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«ax bx cx␤»
01:45 TimToady zacts: well, of course, but I don't know if it does the corresponding optimization :)
01:45 zacts yeah, I mean does it optimize?
01:45 zacts so, probably not..
01:46 TimToady I didn't say that...
01:46 TimToady I said I dunno
01:46 zacts ok
01:46 * TimToady is not enough of a solipsist to assume that if he doesn't know something, it doesn't exist...
01:46 diakopter I didn't think that existed
01:47 TimToady well, there are ways to test that...
01:48 TimToady though camelia may timeout before you can tell the difference
01:48 diakopter the universe may cycle a few googolplex times
01:49 diakopter .seen japhb
01:49 yoleaux I saw japhb 13 Jun 2013 16:24Z in #perl6: <japhb> diakopter, pong
01:49 diakopter !
01:49 TimToady oddly, modern FP thinking is moving away from defining everything in terms of recursion over a list
01:50 diakopter soon computers will have more cores than instructions any one program could ever run
01:50 TimToady recursion implies sequentiality that is not desirable in parallel computations
01:52 TimToady So languages that optimize for tail recursion are, as it were, barking down the wrong (branch of) the tree.
01:52 diakopter "do you have the latest exacore?" "no, a prototype zottacore.."
01:53 diakopter er.
01:53 diakopter zetta
01:53 diakopter zetta, yotta, who can tell the difference?
01:53 TimToady s['of) the'] = 'of the)'
01:54 TimToady yoda the diffence tell can!
01:54 TimToady *difference
01:54 TimToady or you could ask a Difference Engine
01:55 zacts TimToady: interesting
01:55 zacts so, what programming styles lend well to parallel programming?
01:59 TimToady depends on the kind of parallelism
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02:00 TimToady pipelines, MIMD, SIMD, mapreduce...
02:00 zacts so SICP stuff, but without focusing so much on recursion?
02:00 zacts mapreduce makes me think *SICP* for some reason
02:00 zacts I'm going to be starting that book
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02:01 zacts not to start a long discussion about this..
02:01 TimToady mapreduce mostly makes me think of Google :)
02:02 TimToady grid parallelism is yet another style
02:03 TimToady hierarchical parallel relationships...
02:03 zacts interesting
02:03 TimToady parallelism where everything depends on everything else (the hardest kind)
02:03 zacts so is perl6 being designed a lot with parallel computing in mind?
02:03 TimToady certainly, for some defininition of "in mind"
02:04 TimToady ==> feeds are pipelines, hypers are SIMD, race context (we hope) can do mapreducey stuff
02:04 TimToady MIMD is just basic threads
02:05 TimToady everthing depending on everything else is probably a complete message-sending crossbar of some sort
02:05 zacts like an async message passing system?
02:06 TimToady yes
02:06 TimToady that also fits better into NUMA systems
02:06 TimToady hypers are good for feeding vectors through your GPU (or your Cray:)
02:07 zacts Cray is the supercomputer right?
02:07 TimToady gather/take is good for demand-driven pipelining
02:08 TimToady yes, I'm thinking of the original Crays in terms of their built-in vector processing
02:08 TimToady really just a form of pipelining, but it did speed up SIMD calculations on vectors by more than an order of magnitude
02:09 TimToady 14 times, if recall
02:09 zacts ah ok
02:09 TimToady or maybe that was just how many stages there were in the pipeline...
02:09 * diakopter imagines aliens using base 900, "... by more than an order of magnitude!" "ZOMG"
02:09 zacts interesting stuff
02:10 TimToady diakopter: that's very nearly "but what's three orders of magnitude among friends?"
02:10 zacts will perl6 be easy to install even if you don't know perl? for example, I write an irc client in perl. my users don't know how to install perl modules.
02:13 TimToady zacts: that also is one of our goals
02:13 TimToady but then, we've got lots and lots of goals...
02:13 diakopter the penalty kickoff is in its eleventyeth round
02:13 zacts ok, cool. well gtg.
02:14 TimToady zacts: it may well depend on which VM you want to run your irc client on...
02:14 TimToady nice talkin'
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03:10 sorear o/
03:13 TimToady \o
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04:44 Guest65022 hi all
04:45 Guest65022 eloooooo
04:45 diakopter hi
04:45 diakopter ima troll biscuit
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06:05 zacts so perl6 will also be a compiled language?
06:06 zacts if you want that?
06:07 zacts I would love to be able to compile perl programs, and distribute binaries. mainly so perl newbies don't have to install a lot of perl stuff to run my program.
06:19 sorear yeah, we're pretty big on supporting precompilation here
06:23 zacts neato
06:33 sorear admittedly it's largely out of necessity
06:49 avuserow zacts: if you're interested in parallelism, have you taken a look at languages like Rust, Go, or Erlang?
06:49 avuserow they certainly have some interesting ideas about what the future there might be
06:50 zacts avuserow: no, I'll check those out. I've never heard of rust, but I have heard of go and erlang.
06:50 zacts but, right now I'm focusing on perl5 and scheme
06:50 zacts i'm just curious as to what is out there.. neat
06:51 avuserow yeah rust is a newcomer that I'm interested in. By the mozilla folks. My take-away is that it's a C-style functional language that's good for systems and parallel programming
06:52 zacts interesting
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08:05 dalek rakudo/nom: 364e2a3 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
08:05 dalek rakudo/nom: Make .infinite return Nil rather than Bool/Mu when it doesn't know
08:05 dalek rakudo/nom:
08:05 dalek rakudo/nom: <TimToady> .tell lizmat These days Nil is considered the best way to indicate "missing information"
08:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/364e2a39b8
08:07 lizmat good *, #perl6!
08:07 yoleaux 00:29Z <TimToady> lizmat: These days Nil is considered the best way to indicate "missing information"
08:07 lizmat :-)
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09:01 * lizmat wonders whether "report_innevitable_dispatch_failure" is misspelt deliberately
09:04 zacts joined #perl6
09:23 jnthn lizmat: no :P
09:23 yoleaux 20 Jul 2013 23:35Z <lizmat> jnthn: it feels to me that in some cases List.infinite is being called on a Iterable object
09:23 yoleaux 20 Jul 2013 23:36Z <lizmat> jnthn: when judging by the code, it should call Iterablle.infinite
09:23 yoleaux 20 Jul 2013 23:36Z <lizmat> jnthn: could this have to do with the fact that Iterable.infinite returns Mu ?
09:23 yoleaux 00:36Z <TimToady> jnthn: If the two sides are semantically different (utf8 vs buf8), it should fail; if they're merely unit-sized differently (blob8 vs blob16) ops like ~ still fail but integer-based ops like ~& are allowed ot upgrade both sides to 16 bits
09:24 lizmat jnthn: o/
09:24 lizmat jnthn: my feeling was wrong
09:26 lizmat apparently, List.infinite is called with an Array object
09:27 lizmat r: class A { has $!a=42; method a { $!a } }; class B is A { }; say B.new.a # which basically is this situation
09:27 camelia rakudo 364e2a: OUTPUT«42␤»
09:28 lizmat so I'm not sure why I'm getting "Can not get attribute '$!infinite' declared in class 'List' with this object"
09:28 lizmat when apparently it is being called with an Array object
09:28 jnthn Me either, there must be something more to it...
09:28 lizmat ah…. I think I know
09:28 jnthn Oh...wait a moment...
09:29 jnthn Are the rest of the attributes for the class not declared in BOOTSTRAP?
09:29 lizmat the attribute should be known at class compose time, so should b
09:29 lizmat indeed
09:29 jnthn Right
09:29 jnthn Well, class compose time can happen more than once
09:29 jnthn But representation compose can only ever happen once.
09:31 lizmat indeed   :-)
09:37 lizmat new error!  Nominal type check failed for parameter 'lhs'; expected Any but got Mu instead  :-)
09:38 lizmat ah, I see
09:38 lizmat $!infinite shouldn't be Mu
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10:24 lizmat jnthn: would it be an idea to make gen-cat.pl smarter so that it wouldn't need "use" to load Perl6::BOOTSTRAP?
10:24 jnthn lizmat: I don't see how that could possibly work.
10:24 lizmat aka, copy some of the code currently in load_module verbatim into CORE.setting ?
10:24 jnthn That's incredibly unlikely to work
10:25 lizmat I mean, gen-cat.pl *knows* where Perl6/BOOTSTRAP lives
10:25 lizmat but if it would work, we wouldn't need "use" in CORE.setting
10:25 jnthn You don't even have *any* types or meta-objects to hand before you "use Perl6::BOOTSTRAP".
10:26 lizmat so we could write it all of "use" in Perl6
10:26 jnthn Want to write a string literal? Forget it, no Str yet. etc.
10:27 lizmat hmmm….
10:27 jnthn As I've mentioned before, we don't have to have "use" mapped to the real/ultimate module loader at this point.
10:27 lizmat indeed
10:28 lizmat ok, scratch that idea then  :-)
10:28 jnthn But trying to eliminate the use for code is probably asking for a world of pain.
10:28 jnthn I mean, Block doesn't even exist yet, so you can't write a BEGIN block! :)
10:28 lizmat :-)
10:28 lizmat point taken
10:29 jnthn I guess an alternative is to recognize the --setting=NULL case and do something magical in comp_unit to load Perl6::BOOTSTRAP.
10:29 jnthn That is, the "use" is implicit
10:29 lizmat would there be other use cases for --setting=NULL ?
10:30 jnthn Writing a completely custom setting, perhaps. But that's a pretty crazy thing to do.
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: a1e237b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Scratch misspelling OCD itch
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a1e237be5e
10:31 lizmat adding a --setting=BOOTSTRAP would also work, and prevent overloading =NULL usage, I guess
10:32 lizmat hmmm… that seems like a viable way of moving forward
10:33 lizmat remove the "use Perl6::BOOTSTRAP" from traits, and make it implicit with --setting=BOOTSTRAP
10:33 jnthn But Perl6::BOOTSTRAP needs to be use'd, not be a setting...
10:33 jnthn I think doing it off --NULL is sensible enough.
10:33 lizmat ok
10:34 lizmat will mull this over in the next hours  :-)   Thanks for the fb
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12:56 dalek nqp: de37343 | jnthn++ | src/vm/ (2 files):
12:56 dalek nqp: Make nqp::encode take a buffer, not create it.
12:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/de37343320
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 763cfe4 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Fix multi sort so Blob ~~ String is true.
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf:
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Fixes the ambiguity issues that kept any of the Blob operators from
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: being reached.
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/763cfe4c79
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: da24001 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/CurriedRoleHOW.nqp:
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Fix a thinko.
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/da24001d29
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 4c60347 | jnthn++ | src/core/Str.pm:
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: encode method should do the buffer creation.
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf:
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: This is 'cus we may need to pun a role to do so, which is best done
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: here, not inside of some op.
12:57 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4c603471ae
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13:35 lizmat jnthn: FWIW, I've given up on adding an $!infinite attribute: the overhead seems to be more than repeatedly calling multiple methods over and over again
13:36 lizmat spectest typically used 1.5% more CPU with the patch
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13:38 jnthn lizmat: Well, guess this is why measurement matters... :)
13:39 lizmat still no solution as to why (1..Inf).uniq.infinite doesn't know it's infinite
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13:42 jnthn lizmat: I think that infiniteness is generally not contaigous at the moment...
13:42 jnthn lizmat: I'm not sure about the details; Pm is the right person to know about this stuff.
13:44 ajr joined #perl6
13:44 jnthn s/know/ask/
13:54 benabik joined #perl6
13:58 * lizmat is stupid
13:59 lizmat "nqp::istype(nqp::atpos($!rest, 0), Iterable)" only fires if $!rest is Iterable, and Iterable.infinite is by definition Nil
13:59 lizmat I guess in the end, this is a case of NYI
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14:03 lizmat grrr  of course, ListIter is also Iterable
14:04 Ben_Goldberg Perhaps there should be an explicit way of finding out if the length is unknown (method unknownlength, perhaps)?
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14:05 lizmat as opposed to infinite, you mean?
14:05 lizmat the thing is, I *do* think the information is hidden on there somewhere
14:06 lizmat the thing is that on @a=(1..Inf), @a's Iterrator is of type Range
14:06 lizmat that apparently is a simplified version of the one that is created for @a.uniq
14:07 lizmat *Iterator
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14:07 Ben_Goldberg A list made by gather might be infinite, or it might be finite... there only way to know from the outside is to solve the halting problem!
14:10 Ben_Goldberg By letting each iterable type define it's own length_is_unknown method, you can avoid having to deal with it from the outside
14:10 Ben_Goldberg Or, I suppose, just treat *every* list as infinite
14:11 lizmat come to think of it, I guess you could argue that you can never tell
14:12 Ben_Goldberg Plus, finite but very large lists, e.g., (1..1e7), should probably be treated as infinite for most purposes
14:13 lizmat r: my @a := ( 1 xx Inf )  # infinite list with a finite uniq
14:13 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«Cannot coerce Inf or NaN to an Int␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:10559␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3333␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3331␤  in sub infix:<xx> at src/gen/CORE.setting:6790␤  in sub infix:<xx> at src/gen/CO…
14:13 lizmat n: my @a := ( 1 xx Inf )  # infinite list with a finite uniq
14:13 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @a is declared but not used at /tmp/K_qw8G7ixj line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m@a := ( 1 xx Inf )  # infinite list with[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
14:13 lizmat n: my @a := ( 1 xx Inf ); say @a  # infinite list with a finite uniq
14:13 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:14 jnthn But we don't statically know it's finite, in general :)
14:16 Ben_Goldberg n: my @one = (1); my @inf := @one xx Inf; my @u := @inf.uniq; @u[0].say; @u[1].say
14:16 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(timeout)1␤»
14:18 Ben_Goldberg Should @u really be considered infinite?  After all, looping forever (instead of returning a value) isn't the same thing as returning an empty list
14:20 Ben_Goldberg Err... I meant, "Should @u really be considered finite?"
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14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 3300512 | jnthn++ | src/core/IO.pm:
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Correct a comment.
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3300512ce4
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 28ebf0f | jnthn++ | src/core/IO/Socket.pm:
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Update IO::Socket for updated Buf.
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/28ebf0f961
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 75d3e57 | jnthn++ | src/core/IO.pm:
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Update IO::Handle for Buf changes.
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/75d3e57b02
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: b1383a5 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Bump NQP_REVISION.
14:25 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b1383a55ec
14:29 dalek roast/rebuf: e2c0079 | jnthn++ | S (5 files):
14:29 dalek roast/rebuf: Various test updates for Buf changes.
14:29 dalek roast/rebuf:
14:29 dalek roast/rebuf: Rakudo has become more closely aligned with the spec in various ways,
14:29 dalek roast/rebuf: and these tests were caught out in the process.
14:29 dalek roast/rebuf: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e2c0079a3c
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 310b13d | jnthn++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Some exception pre-decls we need.
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/310b13db07
14:32 GlitchMr prn: while True { prompt '?' }
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: ba6da77 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Cool.pm:
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Initialize sprintf argument handler when needed.
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ba6da77a74
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: 45d4473 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
14:32 dalek rakudo/rebuf: Make {@keys}:k use slighlty less CPU
14:33 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(timeout)????????????????????????????​????????????????????????????????????????????​????????????????????????????????????????????​????????????????????????????????????????????​????????????????????????????????????????????​???????????????????????????????????????????…
14:33 camelia ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&prompt"␤    at /tmp/NGleTXYWWW line 1, column 14-25␤»
14:33 camelia ..rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«(timeout)??????????????????????????????​??????????????????????????????????????????????​??????????????????????????????????????????????​??????????????????????????????????????????????​??????????????????????????????????????????????​??????????????????????????????????????????…
14:33 GlitchMr Excess Flood...
14:33 diakopter u killed kenny
14:33 jnthn Merge heuristic fail
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14:34 jnthn lizmat, or anybody else: If you have a moment to kick it off, I'd appreciate a run of the spectests for Rakudo on Parrot in the rebuf branch, using also the rebuf branch of the spectests.
14:37 jnthn (I changed IO related things so it's good to get conf from another platform/machine :))
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14:42 GlitchMr std: say "Process ID is $$."
14:42 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of $. variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's .line method at /tmp/f1tsCYfelA line 1:�------> [32msay "Process ID is $$.[33m�[31m"[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:00 42m�»
14:42 GlitchMr ok...
14:42 GlitchMr std: say "Process ID is ", $$, "."
14:42 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/DJphWgw7Hk line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "Process ID is ", $[33mâ��[31m$, "."[0mâ�¤Use of uninitialized value $first in string eq at STD.pm line 66215.â�¤Use of uninitialized value $first in str…
14:42 GlitchMr I guess it cannot detect invalid use of $$ ($*PID).
14:44 GlitchMr std: $>;
14:44 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of $> variable; in Perl 6 please use $*EUID at /tmp/PzKxvAGJTu line 1:�------> [32m$>[33m�[31m;[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:00 41m�»
14:47 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
14:47 FROGGS[mobile] o/
14:51 jnthn o/ FROGGS[mobile]
14:51 pupoque joined #perl6
14:51 jnthn .oO( is the FROGGSmobile like the batmobile? )
14:53 colomon better, it has irc
14:55 * jnthn thinks he has rebuf to the point where it makes things spec-ier overall, doesn't bust spectest on Parrot, and improves spectest on JVM.
14:57 FROGGS[mobile] FROGGSmobile are the cars you've seen in Frogger
14:59 * JimmyZ can't understand why utf8/16/32 and Buf have "is repr('VMArray')", since Blob has too ...
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15:04 jnthn JimmyZ: 'is repr' on a role only applies to if the role is punned.
15:05 jnthn It can't really have compositional meaning, given you can compose multiple roles...
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15:10 jnthn Looks like we'll get another 50 spectests on Rakudo JVM once rebuf is merged.
15:10 JimmyZ nice
15:10 pupoque_ joined #perl6
15:11 jnthn And that's without .read and .write being implemented yet
15:13 jnthn Away for a bit
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15:15 Ulti zacts have you tried the PAR stuff in Perl5 http://search.cpan.org/~rschupp​/PAR-1.007/lib/PAR/Tutorial.pod you mentioned a lot about distribution/packaging
15:16 Ulti I am looking forward to just doing --target=jar in Rakudo though :)
15:16 raiph joined #perl6
15:17 zacts Ulti: I'll check it out thanks
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15:30 flussence jnthn: Files=746, Tests=26411, 1415 wallclock secs ( 8.66 usr  0.52 sys + 5114.43 cusr 159.50 csys = 5283.11 CPU)
15:31 flussence 1 fail in S16-filehandles, 5 in S32-io/socket
15:31 flussence (and a bunch of fails in S05-mass/ which is normal icu screwup on my machine...)
15:34 flussence oh, this site's still working! http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/43540
15:34 diakopter FROGGS[mobile]: lolz
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15:54 pmurias jnthn: how does $node<foo> or $capture<foo> work?
15:55 pmurias jnthn: ahh, found it, possitional_delegate
15:57 moritz \o
15:57 * moritz back from traveling
15:57 diakopter moritz: wb
16:01 GlitchMr prn: say atan2 0, -0e0
16:01 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
16:01 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897931␤»
16:01 camelia ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&atan2"␤    at /tmp/Foo4Gi8XZp line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
16:01 GlitchMr rn: say atan2 0, '-0e0'
16:02 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897931␤»
16:02 camelia ..rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:02 timotimo lo moritz
16:02 GlitchMr I wonder, which implementation is wrong in this case?
16:02 timotimo what are you up to this nice and warm sunday?
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16:05 moritz GlitchMr: isn't atan periodic in pi?
16:06 moritz GlitchMr: if so, none of them needs to be wrong
16:06 GlitchMr I'm not talking about atan2 itself.
16:06 GlitchMr I'm talking about '-0e0'
16:06 moritz prn: say +'-0e0'
16:06 camelia rakudo a1e237, niecza v24-88-g1f87209, pugs: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:06 GlitchMr In niecza, atan2 sees -0.
16:06 GlitchMr But in Rakudo, it sees 0.
16:06 GlitchMr prn: say (+'-0e0').perl
16:06 camelia rakudo a1e237, niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0e0␤»
16:06 camelia ..pugs: OUTPUT«0.0␤»
16:06 GlitchMr 0e0... ok
16:06 * moritz doesn't see the difference
16:07 GlitchMr Yet, atan2 sees it
16:07 GlitchMr rn: say atan2 0, -0e0
16:07 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
16:07 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897931␤»
16:07 GlitchMr rn: say atan2 0, 0e0
16:07 camelia rakudo a1e237, niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:07 GlitchMr I'm really confused
16:09 GlitchMr Rakudo numerizes that to 0e0, but Niecza numerizes that to -0e0
16:10 GlitchMr rn: printf "%g %g %g\n", 0e0, -0e0, +'-0e0'
16:10 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«0 -0 0␤»
16:10 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0 0 0␤»
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16:15 dalek nqp: 05574c2 | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/73-delegation.t:
16:15 dalek nqp: Add a test for 'is positional_delegate' and 'is associative_delegate'.
16:15 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/05574c2ac9
16:19 GlitchMr rn: say <->
16:19 camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed parameter at /tmp/cKH8ZL1FNJ line 1 (EOF):�------> [32msay <->[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m��Parse failed��»
16:19 camelia ..rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Malformed parameterâ�¤at /tmp/hByY2Kw3We:1â�¤------> [32msay <->[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        prefix or meta-prefixâ�¤        parameterized blockâ�¤Â»
16:20 GlitchMr std: say <->
16:20 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
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16:25 GlitchMr std: /\(([^()]*|(?R))\)/
16:25 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/R3VOcbTBs7 line 1:â�¤------> [32m/\(([^([33mâ��[31m)]*|(?R))\)/[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤   quantifierâ�¤     regex atomâ�¤     sigmaybeâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 42mâ�¤Â»
16:26 colomon joined #perl6
16:26 colomon rn: say atan2 0, (1/-Inf)
16:26 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
16:26 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897931␤»
16:27 colomon rn: say -0e0
16:27 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«-0␤»
16:27 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:27 colomon …. okay, that's the opposite of what I was expecting.
16:28 colomon afk # off to parents'
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16:37 dalek nqp: 38e207a | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/73-delegation.t:
16:37 dalek nqp: Test that positional_delegate and associative_delegate are visible through the metamodel.
16:37 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/38e207a7ab
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16:58 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
17:14 jnthn flussence: The S16 one seems unrelated; the socket one is more concerning, but passes for me, so I'm not too sure what I can do...
17:37 fgomez joined #perl6
17:49 pmurias jnthn: is positional_delegate works by setting a bit in the repr?
17:49 pmurias s/setting a bit/marking things up/
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18:13 diakopter moritz: even if it's periodic in pi, it requires all programmers who type atan2 to know that to interpret the result properly
18:14 diakopter .. because the domain of whatever it's fed to may be bigger
18:16 pmurias jnthn: sanity check, if an class has an attribute with 'is positional_delegate', the repr will have pos_del_slot set to something different then -1
18:16 jnthn pmurias: Stores the slot to find the positional delegate in repr data...
18:16 GlitchMr std: ().^WHAT
18:16 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
18:16 jnthn pmurias: Yes
18:16 GlitchMr rn: ().^WHAT
18:16 jnthn -1 indicates "no, there isn't one"
18:16 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Cannot use .^ on a non-identifier method callâ�¤at /tmp/rLjnMJIKdZ:1â�¤------> [32m().^WHAT[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argumentsâ�¤Â»
18:16 camelia ..niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method WHAT in type ClassHOW␤  at /tmp/bBMlNIJUf0 line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4579 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4580 (module-CORE @ 576) ␤  at /h…
18:16 jnthn It's configured at REPR compose time.
18:16 GlitchMr What is Rakudo talking about?
18:17 pmurias jnthn: and the version is serialization format is >= 3 in vaguely modern nqp, so the pos_del_slot is serialized
18:17 jnthn yeah, 3 is pretty old
18:22 pmurias so we should remove the if statement now?
18:22 pmurias if statement = version check
18:22 jnthn pmurias: Yeah, if the minimum version it claims to support in serialization.c is higher
18:23 jnthn Which I think it is
18:26 GlitchMr std: &infix:<+>; &infix:<&&>
18:26 camelia std c2215f0: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
18:26 GlitchMr Just wondering, how can I declare an operator that works like &&?
18:26 GlitchMr (I assume macros could be helpful, but...)
18:28 pmurias jnthn: the minimum version seems to be 1
18:29 jnthn pmurias: Well, so long as we don't bump it past whatever is in stage0... :)
18:30 GlitchMr ok, I think I managed to do it using macro infix:<!!!>($a, $b) { quasi { {{{$a || $b}}} } }
18:32 jnthn GlitchMr: yeah, that looks right
18:32 GlitchMr Well, it's {{{$a}}} || {{{$b}}}
18:32 GlitchMr But seems to work
18:33 sdo joined #perl6
18:33 sdo hello
18:33 GlitchMr Hello
18:33 sdo I have a simple question
18:33 GlitchMr Just ask
18:35 sdo I went on rakudo website (official) and look to buy a TShirt. I could not find any place. Is it possible to buy a TShirt of Rakudo star?
18:37 grondilu " "Saying Java is a nice programming language because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is nice because it works on all genders."   <-  lol
18:38 * grondilu hope this was not too nsfw.  It was so funny I couldn't help writing it here.
18:38 sdo why not oral sex
18:39 timotimo because in order to insult java, the author of the joke has to come up with something "icky" or "disgusting"
18:39 mst sdo: because heteronormative culture hasn't made men irrationally scared of oral sex compromising their masculinity
18:40 dalek joined #perl6
18:40 GlitchMr sdo: http://rakudo.spreadshirt.de/
18:41 GlitchMr (however, it's just standard Rakudo, not Rakudo Star)
18:41 GlitchMr (not that Rakudo Star has logo)
18:42 sdo ok
18:42 sdo thx
18:42 sdo I check
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19:12 moritz diakopter: whoever uses a function should have at least basic familiarity with it
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19:16 moritz diakopter: i'm not saying that it actualyl is correct, but the periodicity is something that needs to be taken into account when checking if one of them is actually wrong
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19:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: 332e577 | coke++ | / (4 files):
19:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/332e5777b9
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19:27 moritz r: say 26210 - 25988
19:27 timotimo lost quite a few tests on rakudo.parrot
19:27 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«222␤»
19:27 moritz r: say 222 / 26210
19:27 camelia rakudo a1e237: OUTPUT«0.008470␤»
19:27 timotimo actually, gained
19:29 jnthn rebuf should give us another 50ish passing on JVM, but flussence++ tested and saw a regression on the socket tests...
19:29 * jnthn doesn't have the regression hee
19:29 jnthn *here
19:29 [Coke] there was a mystery failure a few days ago that cleared up
19:29 jnthn If anybody fancies having a poke at it, please do
19:29 [Coke] jnthn: want me to test a branch on the smoker?
19:30 jnthn [Coke]: Yeah; rebuf branch of Rakudo with rebuf branch of spectest repo.
19:31 jnthn [Coke]: On Parrot.
19:32 [Coke] ... good thing you said that.
19:32 [Coke] what about nqp?
19:32 jnthn I updated NQP_REVISION
19:32 jnthn So no branch, just the matching one or later
19:33 jnthn (though I think that currently what's in NQP_REVISION is nqp master)
19:33 jnthn We don't have sockets working yet on JVM
19:33 jnthn But I'd rather not regress them on Parrot
19:34 jnthn hm
19:34 * jnthn notes that while it does work for him, it seems to take quite a while to do so...
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19:53 gfldex panda is endangered for me:
19:53 gfldex ==> Testing File::Tools
19:53 gfldex t/01-file-find.t ...... Failed 1/10 subtests
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20:04 lizmat jnthn: will run rebuf spectest now
20:04 lizmat will run while I'm getting some fresh, not too hot air whil cycling
20:04 lizmat back in ~ hour&
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20:06 timotimo tadzik: i was thinking of rewriting the pod parsing to be more "modular"; have parameters that specify if whitespace should be preserved, if margins should be removed, if formatting codes (and which) are allowed, if nested blocks should be parsed, ...
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20:10 timotimo and also: parameters that decide what would terminate the piece ofpod
20:11 timotimo i'm not sure it can sensibly be made with "lots and lots of rules", given the sheer amount of combinations
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20:15 pmurias_ jnthn: I found the source of my positional_dispatch problems, I was using a old copy of nqp-mo.pm which didn't pass the info to the compose method :(
20:17 jnthn pmurias_: ah... :(
20:28 tadzik timotimo: seems worth trying. The existing code has a lots of duplicate code
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20:47 gfldex tadzik: does panda bootstrap for you right now?
20:51 timotimo doesn't for me :(
20:51 timotimo problems with file::find
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20:57 gfldex not ok 10 - found one of two files due to X::IO::Dir
20:57 gfldex that's the offending test
21:01 timotimo tadzik: do you have an intuition on wether i could know what exact columns the table will have after a specific line was parsed?
21:16 jnthn 'night, #perl6
21:18 tadzik gfldex: tring
21:18 tadzik timotimo: when you reach the separator you should have a fairly good idea, yes
21:19 timotimo what about tables without a separator?
21:19 lizmat gnight jnthn!
21:20 timotimo two or more spaces in a row don't guarantee "a cell ends here"
21:21 lizmat .tell jnthn "my Buf $a = "asdf".encode" fails with "Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'Buf' but got 'utf8'"
21:25 dalek roast/rebuf: a1e23de | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-names-vars/perl.t:
21:25 dalek roast/rebuf: Fudge failing test, although the test itself looks faulty to me
21:25 dalek roast/rebuf: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a1e23de459
21:30 timotimo "expected bug" ?:)(
21:30 timotimo ? :)
21:32 lizmat .ping
21:32 lizmat seems we lost yoleaux again
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21:34 lizmat jnthn: the faliing IO tests in rebug branch: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/6050073
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21:38 lizmat jnthn: fwiw, the same numbers happen with every test, so it does seem something systematic rather then depending on load or so
21:44 yoleaux joined #perl6
21:48 lizmat .tell jnthn "my Buf $a = "asdf".encode" fails with "Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'Buf' but got 'utf8'"
21:48 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
21:48 lizmat .tell jnthn faliing IO tests in rebug branch: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/6050073
21:48 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
21:48 lizmat gnight #perl6!
21:57 colomon o\
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23:25 grondilu rn: constant α = 1; say α
23:25 camelia rakudo a1e237, niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«1␤»
23:26 grondilu for some reason I've been unable to use unicode variable names, latelly :-(
23:27 grondilu yet I know my terminal uses unicode.  I mean, I failed running perl6 -e 'constant α = 1;', so I ran echo 'constant α = 1;' |xxd and I got:
23:27 grondilu 0000000: 636f 6e73 7461 6e74 20ce b120 3d20 313b  constant .. = 1;
23:27 grondilu 0000010: 0a
23:28 grondilu which tells me that α is encoded in ceb1.  Isn't that unicode?
23:28 colomon .u α
23:28 yoleaux U+03B1 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA [Ll] (α)
23:29 colomon That's unicode alpha
23:29 colomon (and I got it by cutting-n-pasting your text there
23:29 colomon )
23:30 grondilu ok, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha,  CEB1 is unicode too (I confess I don't know the details about utf-8 and unicode)
23:32 grondilu why doesn't it work, anyway?
23:35 flussence ~ $ perl6 -e 'constant α = 1; say α'
23:35 flussence 1
23:35 flussence works for me, and the xxd is identical, so I dunno
23:49 * grondilu upgrades its CPAN modules and after that will recompile nqp/parrot/rakudo.  Maybe this will help.
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