Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-08-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:32 flussence n: multi sub foo (Int $f, $g) { 1; }; multi sub foo ($f, Str $g) { 1; }; foo(4,"d");
00:32 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:�  $f is declared but not used at /tmp/mfBQYP9ww9 line 1:�------> [32mmulti sub foo (Int [33m�[31m$f, $g) { 1; }; multi sub foo ($f, Str $[0m�  $g is declared but not used at /tmp/mfBQYP9ww9 line 1:�------> [32mmulti sub foo (In…
00:32 flussence argh
00:32 flussence n: multi sub foo (Int $f, $g) { $f,$g,1; }; multi sub foo ($f, Str $g) { $g,$f,1; }; foo(4,"d");
00:32 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Ambiguous call to &foo; these signatures all match:␤    Int, Any␤    Any, Str␤  at /tmp/Vw525aLVLM line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4579 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 45…
00:34 flussence which one's supposed to win? I'd guess specific-first but I'm not familiar with that bit of spec
00:34 skids first declared I think.
00:34 skids Though whether the type counts as a "constraint" vs a where clause is a question.
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01:12 TimToady neither is supposed to win in this case, since there are no constraints other than nominal typing
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01:18 flussence yeah, my assumption kinda falls apart if those are both using named params...
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01:49 flussence script one-liner that causes a bizarro error message: «sub MAIN($foo, $bar) { constant baz = $foo + $bar; }»
01:50 flussence Nominal type check failed for parameter '$a'; expected Any but got Mu instead
01:58 TimToady well, it's a bit understandable, insofar as you can't create a compile-time constant with values that aren't available till run time.
01:59 TimToady but the error is LTA
02:00 JimmyZ std: sub MAIN($foo, $bar) { constant baz = $foo + $bar; }
02:00 camelia std 06636e4: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
02:00 TimToady maybe there's some way to mark $foo and $bar to indicate there's no possible way for them to have a value yet
02:00 TimToady the syntax is fine; it's the semantics that are impossible
02:00 JimmyZ n: sub MAIN($foo, $bar) { constant baz = $foo + $bar; }
02:00 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤  at Builtins.plus (Niecza.Constants c, Niecza.Variable a1, Niecza.Variable a2) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at Anon.1.C0baz init (Niecza.Frame…
02:01 TimToady constant is just like BEGIN
02:02 TimToady if you want a symbol there, you'd have to say my \baz = $foo + $bar
02:02 TimToady that would run at, er, run time
02:04 TimToady constant and BEGIN should probably trap undefined errors and complain "Value of $foo is not known at compile time"
02:04 [Coke] r: say now - constant now
02:04 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/JPvNj2md_s�Missing initializer on constant declaration�at /tmp/JPvNj2md_s:1�------> [32msay now - constant now[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix o…
02:04 TimToady r: say now - constant started = now;
02:04 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«0.044363␤»
02:05 TimToady you can't redeclare now like that
02:05 TimToady nor can you declare a constant without initializing it
02:05 [Coke] yah, I didn't expect it to work.
02:05 geekosaur r: say now - constant $ = now
02:05 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«0.04833237␤»
02:05 geekosaur ...should that have worked?
02:06 TimToady sure, you just declared an anonymous constant
02:06 benabik r: say now - BEGIN now
02:06 TimToady just as you do with BEGIN
02:06 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«0.04930257␤»
02:06 geekosaur I was wondering if a sigil could be used there these days
02:07 JimmyZ Perl6 allows you do good things with leaving a anonymous name
02:08 geekosaur not quite what I was asking. more like, wondering if (a) something like `constant $foo = ...` is still legal given the sigil-less form; (b) if an anonymous scalar would be too close to that form
02:08 geekosaur somehow
02:10 TimToady well, rakudo is still a bit buggy in the constants, since it basically ignores the sigil
02:10 TimToady r: constant %foo = a => 1, b => 2; say %foo.WHAT
02:10 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
02:11 TimToady n: constant %foo = a => 1, b => 2; say %foo.WHAT
02:11 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«(Hash)␤»
02:11 TimToady niecza++ does it better
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09:13 * lizmat drops a pin
09:16 * moritz catches it before it falls
09:16 tadzik gosh, that scared me
09:17 lizmat :-)
09:17 lizmat good *, #perl6!
09:20 tadzik good star :)
09:22 moritz speaking of star, I should make the newest one available on camelia
09:23 moritz star: say 42
09:23 camelia star 2013.02: OUTPUT«42␤»
09:23 lizmat *: say 42
09:23 lizmat :-(
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09:35 lizmat TimToady: wondering about compile time constants, shouldn't they be per compilation unit ?
09:36 lizmat things like %?ENV, %?DISTRO
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09:52 grondilu rn: say my uint $ = -1
09:52 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
09:52 camelia ..niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed my at /tmp/sOXENM2ldm line 1:�------> [32msay my[33m�[31m uint $ = -1[0m��Parse failed��»
09:52 grondilu rn: say my uint $ = 10
09:53 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
09:53 camelia ..niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed my at /tmp/GHq3gY2liF line 1:�------> [32msay my[33m�[31m uint $ = 10[0m��Parse failed��»
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10:23 pmurias FROGGS: ping
10:25 pmurias FROGGS: we do we still have code to treat the hash returned by nqp::getenvhash as some crazy parrot pmc?
10:27 FROGGS pmurias: can you rephrase that?
10:28 pmurias when creating %ENV we have a #ifdef parrot
10:28 pmurias why hasn't it been deleted? ;)
10:28 FROGGS pmurias: the ifdef about the iterating?
10:29 FROGGS it is still there because I didnt remove (and tested) it
10:30 pmurias hmm I still get the error about incorrect nqp --version
10:31 FROGGS pmurias: do a git pull && make clean && perl Configure.pl && make install
10:31 FROGGS (in the correct nqp directory, if you have more than one)
10:31 FROGGS what does nqp --version say?
10:33 pmurias I don't have the git revision
10:33 pmurias This is nqp version 2013.08 built on parrot 5.5.0 revision RELEASE_5_5_0
10:35 FROGGS but you need HEAD
10:35 FROGGS what does `git describe` say?
10:36 pmurias 2013.08-38-gaa41dd3
10:36 FROGGS okay
10:36 FROGGS pmurias: is that nqp on parrot?
10:39 pmurias yes
10:39 FROGGS then remove the content of your install dir, cd into parrot, make install, and then configure nqp again and make install
10:39 FROGGS after that nqp --version should be right
10:43 pmurias it's a problem with tools/build/gen-version.pl
10:46 pmurias ahh I figured it out
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10:46 pmurias tools/build/gen-version.pl doesn't work in a submodule
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10:52 dalek nqp: 3156a67 | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/gen-version.pl:
10:52 dalek nqp: Make tools/build/gen-version.pl work correctly in git submodules.
10:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3156a6709a
10:55 pmurias FROGGS: you have a rakudo commit bit?
10:56 FROGGS .tell pmurias yes, I have
10:56 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
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11:06 marasgp moritz: do you mind helping me with an ilbot installation?
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11:26 lizmat r: say 42
11:26 lizmat camelia unresponsive?
11:26 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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11:27 lizmat I guess feather is suffering under load
11:29 jesther Not true.
11:29 jesther Not true.
11:29 lizmat r: say True
11:30 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
11:30 jesther OUTPUT-0001.
11:31 jesther 26b35d.
11:32 jesther It begins momentarily whithin a few months of release, the old fashioned way.
11:40 moritz marasgp: I can try
11:41 marasgp moritz: sorry I posted in the wrong channel. can we do it in #ilbot?
11:41 moritz marasgp: sure
11:47 lizmat colomon: finally getting to the end of the Set/Bag integration from niecza
11:47 lizmat r: 1 ≼ 2 # what is ≼ ?
11:47 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/PIcX3ILsPG�Two terms in a row�at /tmp/PIcX3ILsPG:1�------> [32m1 [33m�[31m≼ 2 # what is ≼ ?[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix or meta-infix�        statement en…
11:48 tadzik r: 1 love 2 # what is love?
11:48 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/p09Ewv4EOx�Two terms in a row�at /tmp/p09Ewv4EOx:1�------> [32m1 [33m�[31mlove 2 # what is love?[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix or meta-infix�        stateme…
11:48 lizmat I'm not seeing a texas equivalent of ≼
11:50 lizmat it's not (<=), as that is linked to ⊆
11:50 tadzik it's probably bigger :>
11:50 lizmat bigger than all of us, surely
11:53 nwc10 except Alaska
11:55 lizmat problem is that I can't leave a ≼ in the core setting, or the parse time for rakudo will explode  :-(
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11:55 colomon lizmat++
11:55 lizmat colomon: so what *is* ≼ ?
11:55 colomon lizmat: I never figured out a texas version of ≼
11:56 lizmat aha, that explains
11:56 colomon it's bag subset
11:56 lizmat problem is, I need it for the ACCEPTS  :-(
11:56 lizmat guess I'll have to think of a texas equivalent myself ?
11:57 colomon n: my $a = (a => 10, b => 20).bag; my $b = (a => 2, b => 3); say $b ⊆ $a; say $b ≼ $a
11:57 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method bag in type Parcel␤  at /tmp/m8sqyQRPVd line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4579 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4580 (module-CORE @ 576) ␤  at /home…
11:57 colomon :(
11:57 lizmat .Bag ?
11:57 colomon n: my $a = (a => 10, b => 20).Bag; my $b = (a => 2, b => 3); say $b ⊆ $a; say $b ≼ $a
11:57 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
11:57 colomon lizmat++
11:57 colomon doh!
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11:57 colomon n: my $a = (a => 10, b => 20).Bag; my $b = (a => 2, b => 3); say $a ⊆ $b; say $a ≼ $b
11:58 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
11:58 colomon there you go
11:58 colomon ⊆ converts both sides to sets, so counts are lost
11:58 colomon ≼ converts both sides to bags, and counts are important
11:59 colomon we can help you come up with a texas version
11:59 benabik Why does parse time explode with Unicode on Rakudo, and is there a planned fix?
11:59 lizmat there is no planned fix as yet, hoping for pmichaud to get some tuits to look at this / give pointers to others to fix this
11:59 lizmat it is mightily annoying
12:00 daxim define texas
12:00 lizmat pure ascii
12:00 colomon daxim: pure ascii version of a unicode operator
12:00 lizmat (<+)
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12:01 lizmat the plus indicating the importance of the numbers ?
12:01 FROGGS lizmat: I thought jnthn said that you can have a infix:«\xsomething» in the setting, without loosing speed
12:02 lizmat doesn't work
12:02 lizmat I've put in the code in comments, so that when it starts to work, we can just uncomment
12:02 colomon (+<+) indicating numbers on both sides?
12:03 lizmat FROGG: #only sub infix:<"\x222A">(\|$p) is equiv(&infix:<|>) { infix:<(|)>(|$p) } # NO UNICODE OPS YET
12:03 colomon actually (+<=+) I guess, by analogy with (<)
12:03 lizmat wow, that's a long one
12:03 colomon lizmat: long is okay, IMO
12:04 lizmat but we don't have (=<=)
12:04 lizmat so why (+<+) ?
12:04 colomon right, but we do have (<=)
12:04 colomon lizmat: I was just thinking of emphasizing the numbers on both sides
12:04 colomon but I'm just throwing out ideas here
12:04 lizmat but (<=) is quivalent to ⊆
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12:05 lizmat feels more natural to do (<+) for ≼
12:05 lizmat I'll go for (<+) for symmetry with (<=) for now
12:05 colomon lizmat: you maybe can't see it, but ≼ has the = sign in there
12:06 lizmat I know, I can see
12:06 colomon it's the bag version of ⊆
12:06 lizmat yes, and bags have numbers not booleans
12:07 colomon the point is that there is a distinction between (<) and (<=), and ≼ is closer to (<=)
12:09 lizmat ⊂ = (<), ⊆ = (<=) and ≼ would be (<+)
12:10 lizmat maybe ⊆ should become (=<=) and ≼ (+<+) ?
12:10 lizmat or (<-) and (<=) ?
12:11 FROGGS r: sub infix:«\x227c»(\a, \b) { 1 + 2 }; say 1 ≼ 2;
12:11 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:11 lizmat huh?
12:11 * lizmat tries again
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12:16 FROGGS dunno about slowdown though
12:16 lizmat don't know yet either
12:16 FROGGS arglbargl! Unhandled exception: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
12:17 FROGGS I can't run the spectest suite on windows :/
12:17 FROGGS it starts to fail all test after the 20nth or so
12:18 FROGGS it seems it is unable to consume more than 295MB
12:18 FROGGS r: sub infix:<\x227c>(\a, \b) { 1 + 2 }; say 1 ≼ 2; # < > dont interpolate
12:18 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/cWDNJEwXYY�Two terms in a row�at /tmp/cWDNJEwXYY:1�------> [32minfix:<\x227c>(\a, \b) { 1 + 2 }; say 1 [33m�[31m≼ 2; # < > dont interpolate[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�        infix stopper�…
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12:19 FROGGS r: sub infix:«"\x227c"»(\a, \b) { 1 + 2 }; say 1 ≼ 2; # < > dont interpolate # dont add extra quotes
12:19 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:19 FROGGS ohh, that actually work
12:19 FROGGS s
12:19 timotimo hehe
12:19 FROGGS r: sub infix:«"(\x227c)"»(\a, \b) { 1 + 2 }; say 1 ≼ 2;
12:19 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/91Wc70PwYY�Two terms in a row�at /tmp/91Wc70PwYY:1�------> [32mx:«"(\x227c)"»(\a, \b) { 1 + 2 }; say 1 [33m�[31m≼ 2;[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�        infix stopper�        infix or meta-i…
12:19 FROGGS w/e
12:21 FROGGS k, trying again with Xmx512m set
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12:34 JimmyZ FROGGS: ping
12:34 pmurias FROGGS: I'll try to remove the old env leftovers
12:34 yoleaux 10:56Z <FROGGS> pmurias: yes, I have
12:35 JimmyZ https://github.com/perl6/nqp/pull/116 Could someone apply it?
12:36 FROGGS JimmyZ: pong
12:36 * moritz does it
12:36 dalek nqp: 432f444 | jimmy++ | Configure.pl:
12:36 dalek nqp: fixed potential build failure on mingw32
12:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/432f44493d
12:36 dalek nqp: 51c1fb6 | moritz++ | Configure.pl:
12:36 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #116 from zhuomingliang/patch-1
12:36 dalek nqp:
12:36 dalek nqp: fixed potential build failure on mingw32
12:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/51c1fb6620
12:36 FROGGS pmurias: cool :o)
12:36 JimmyZ thanks
12:36 FROGGS k
12:36 JimmyZ FROGGS: nvm
12:36 FROGGS :o)
12:37 Juerd aaa
12:37 Juerd -
12:38 Juerd Oops, ignore that please :)
12:39 JimmyZ another one: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/pull/117
12:40 JimmyZ actually from original dyncall
12:49 dalek nqp: 7ecee93 | jimmy++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/Makefile.embedded:
12:49 dalek nqp: Updated dyncall to support mingw32
12:49 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7ecee93be9
12:49 dalek nqp: daae9b5 | moritz++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/Makefile.embedded:
12:49 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #117 from zhuomingliang/patch-2
12:49 dalek nqp:
12:49 dalek nqp: Updated dyncall to support mingw32
12:49 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/daae9b5cb6
12:50 lizmat colomon: it looks like "is iffy" is a nieczaism
12:50 colomon lizmat: I think it may be in std?
12:50 moritz maybe ported from STD to niecza, and later removed from STD
12:51 lizmat definitely not in the spec
12:52 moritz but it is in std.pm6
12:52 moritz r: 1 !+ 2
12:52 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/L6YVJfuKwj�Cannot negate + because it is not iffy enough�at /tmp/L6YVJfuKwj:1�------> [32m1 !+[33m�[31m 2[0m�»
12:52 moritz std: 1 !+ 2
12:52 camelia std 06636e4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot negate + because additive operators are not iffy enough at /tmp/TThxAIHveq line 1:�------> [32m1 !+[33m�[31m 2[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:00 42m�»
12:52 moritz lizmat: oh, you meant the actual trait, no the concept
12:52 lizmat yes, "is iffy"
12:53 moritz yes, that might be an nieczaism, but a helpful one IMHO
12:53 moritz because otherwise you can't make user-declared operators iffy
12:53 lizmat well, the spec doesn't have the string "iffy" in it
12:53 lizmat maybe something needs to be specced then  :-)
12:54 pmurias how do I run a single test file?
12:54 pmurias (without installing rakudo)
12:55 jnap joined #perl6
12:55 lizmat make t/spec/dir/name.t
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13:00 moritz \o/ new HPMoR chapter
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13:08 PerlJam ... there goes another few minutes of lost productivity this morning
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13:17 pmurias FROGGS: how should I supply a patch for you to apply?
13:18 FROGGS pmurias: a pull request would be nice
13:19 moritz star: say 42
13:19 camelia star 2013.08: OUTPUT«42␤»
13:19 moritz updated to current R*
13:19 lizmat *: say 42
13:19 lizmat :-(
13:20 * pmurias hates the github ui changes making things confusing
13:20 moritz lizmat: you can patch that in evalbot if you want :-)
13:21 lizmat I might
13:21 lizmat meanwhile, I'm looking for a stray unicode char that's causing the parse to explode :-(
13:21 lizmat (as in taking very long)
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13:23 moritz lizmat: is that committed and pushed?
13:23 pmichaud ack '[\x80-\xff]'
13:23 lizmat no, only in my local repo
13:24 moritz pmichaud: it's not that simple, since Unicode chars in the Latin-1 range are OK
13:24 moritz and ack doesn't decode as UTF-8
13:24 FROGGS but it is a start
13:24 pmichaud ack '[\xc3-\xff]'   # or something like that
13:25 pmichaud but I don't think there are that many latin-1 chars in the setting anyway
13:25 * pmichaud checks
13:25 pmichaud oh, except for the french angles  :-/
13:25 moritz 106
13:25 lizmat found them, I think
13:26 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
13:26 pmurias the github rakudo-js has been accidently deleted and recreated, hopefully it dosn't inconvinience anyone
13:29 JimmyZ Error occurred during initialization of VM
13:29 JimmyZ Could not reserve enough space for object heap
13:29 JimmyZ :(
13:29 pmichaud for future reference:   ack '[\xc4-\xff]'  will find lines with chars with codepoint > 0xff
13:30 pmichaud (in a utf8 encoded file)
13:30 pmurias FROGGS: I have made a pull request
13:30 lizmat pmichaud++
13:32 FROGGS pmurias: for rakudo? I can't see it
13:32 PacoAir joined #perl6
13:32 JimmyZ change -Xmx1600m to -Xmx1200m works
13:33 iSlug joined #perl6
13:33 lizmat r: constant term:<<"\x2205">>= "foo"; say ∅ # rakudobug ?
13:33 camelia rakudo 26a36b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/U8gVPcX4lq�invoke() not implemented in class 'QAST::Want'�at /tmp/U8gVPcX4lq:1�------> �»
13:33 lizmat or just NYI with LTA error message
13:33 pmichaud nyi, i suspect.
13:33 lizmat n: constant term:<<"\x2205">>= "foo"; say ∅ # rakudobug ?
13:34 camelia niecza v24-90-gd827fa8: OUTPUT«set()␤»
13:34 lizmat NYI then  :-)
13:34 lizmat huh?
13:34 lizmat nope, it was supposed to say "foo", not an empty set
13:34 pmichaud I wonder if ∅ is predefined in niecza
13:34 lizmat it is
13:35 moritz defining terms is also NYI in rakudo
13:35 moritz I've tried twice to implement it, and failed both times
13:35 pmurias FROGGS: https://github.com/pmurias/rakudo/commit/23d310afe552e86b13668d98a3c835f0d498fc86
13:36 dmol joined #perl6
13:36 pmichaud I'm afk again
13:36 pmurias FROGGS: could I just mail you a patch?
13:36 btyler joined #perl6
13:37 FROGGS pmurias: sure
13:37 FROGGS pmurias: hold on
13:37 FROGGS https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/203
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 23d310a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/core/terms.pm:
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Unify the %*ENV creating across the jvm and parrot backends.
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/23d310afe5
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 59b2dfb | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/terms.pm:
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #203 from pmurias/nom
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Unify the %*ENV creating across the jvm and parrot backends.
13:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/59b2dfb73a
13:38 pmurias FROGGS: thanks
13:38 FROGGS yw
13:40 FROGGS bbl
13:45 rindolf joined #perl6
13:46 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
13:52 * [Coke] yawns
13:53 moritz fwiw panda bootstrap seems to work with this latest patch
13:53 lizmat morning [Coke] !
13:54 colomon what moritz said, I'm running another smoke test now.
13:54 FROGGS[mobile] does somebody know how to spectest rakudo@jvm without running into memory limits?
13:55 moritz 'make spectest' does that for me :-)
13:55 FROGGS[mobile] on windows
13:55 moritz oh.
13:56 colomon FROGGS[mobile]: if it's java running out of memory rather than windows, you can probably set a flag to fix that somewhere.
13:57 FROGGS[mobile] I tried Xmx1024m without luck
13:57 FROGGS[mobile] but it is possible that I did it wrong
13:58 * [Coke] needs コーヒー
14:00 thou joined #perl6
14:02 skids joined #perl6
14:05 * jnthn is home
14:05 yoleaux 01:38Z <benabik> jnthn: To fix 3rdparty/dyncall try `git submodule sync && git submodule update`
14:05 nwc10 and still in one piece?
14:06 lizmat maybe jnthn has been a bit osloed ?
14:06 nwc10 norwai!
14:06 nwc10 (not sure who first used that one, but I got in first with it today)
14:09 jnthn Yes, in one piece
14:09 jnthn No transportation accidents in this trip. :)
14:11 jnthn ...thankfully, that hasn't happened for well over a year by now. :)
14:13 jnthn btw, for those of you curious about that podcast that interviewed me about architecture stuff last week, it's up at http://t.co/DnVBweWXmA
14:14 jnthn FROGGS[mobile]: I've not had problems spectesting Rakudo JVM on Windows, fwiw
14:14 jnthn (didn't do it for a few days, mind...)
14:14 timotimo yays
14:16 jnthn (It's nothing Perl 6 related; more about what I do at $dayjob)
14:17 timotimo yup
14:19 TimK1 joined #perl6
14:19 FROGGS[mobile] I'm on windows xp
14:20 jnthn XP?!
14:21 FROGGS[mobile] and I think I set the memory option fot jre instead of jdk
14:21 FROGGS[mobile] yeah, "good" old xp
14:21 * colomon still uses XP in the windows VM on his MBP
14:21 * colomon hates every post-XP Windows he has tried.
14:22 * colomon switched to OS X because of this, actually.
14:22 FROGGS[mobile] interesting, I hate osx
14:23 lizmat r: only sub infix:<(.)>(\|$p) {"foo"}  # what's wrong with this ?
14:23 camelia rakudo 59b2df: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/eFXGyJf3Mq�Missing block�at /tmp/eFXGyJf3Mq:1�------> [32monly sub infix:<(.)>(\[33m�[31m|$p) {"foo"}  # what's wrong with this ?[0m�    expecting any of:�        new term to be defined�        constrain…
14:24 lizmat is this a nieczaism?
14:24 FROGGS[mobile] Is that signature valid?
14:25 lizmat copy/pasted from niecza
14:25 lizmat I guess not
14:25 jnthn std: only sub infix:<(.)>(\|$p) {"foo"}
14:25 camelia std 06636e4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unable to parse signature at /tmp/6et9jNqcTg line 1:�------> [32monly sub infix:<(.)>[33m�[31m(\|$p) {"foo"}[0m�Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/6et9jNqcTg line 1:�------> [32monly sub infix:<(.)>(\[33m�[31m|$p) {"foo"}[…
14:25 jnthn That looks like syntax we had once upon a time...
14:25 jnthn I forget what it was for :)
14:26 lizmat I suspect \|$p is now just |p
14:26 jnthn It may just be spelled \p now
14:26 jnthn oh, or that
14:26 jnthn I forget :)
14:26 jnthn It's hard enough to remember current spec :P
14:27 lizmat my $base_set = $p ?? $p[0].Set !! set();  # seeing that, I assume \p would be better
14:27 nwc10 "this week" isn't what it used to be
14:27 denis_boyun joined #perl6
14:30 * lizmat tries to compile settings again
14:31 * jnthn just got himself up to date builds of stuff
14:34 lizmat ok, am about to give up: any suggestions from this massive stacktrace ? https://gist.github.com/lizmat/6366683
14:34 lizmat ah, found it
14:34 jnthn Suggest trying wiht --ll-exception if you didn't already
14:35 lizmat this is while doing the make
14:35 lizmat apparently it cannot handle "!! die "Routine given to equiv does not appear to be an operator";"
14:35 jnthn Sure...just ram it into the Makefile :)
14:35 lizmat right
14:36 lizmat guess I need to check all of the is equivs
14:37 jnthn Apparenlty they ain't all equivalent :P
14:41 donaldh is anyone working on sockets on nqp jvm ?
14:42 jnthn donaldh: tadzik has a branch with a good bit of progress on them, not sure of current status/activity
14:42 donaldh ah
14:42 jnthn tadzik: ping :)
14:42 donaldh I started hacking but then thought I should check first.
14:43 donaldh (maybe the last thing that is required for panda )
14:44 jnthn donaldh: I doubt that tadzik will object to you contributing to the branch(es)
14:44 donaldh Let me scrape around for the branch and take a look
14:45 donaldh hah, the same branch name as I had chosen. who'd a thunk that jvm-sockets would be a popular name
14:46 lizmat could it be that "is equiv" is simply not (well) implemented yet in rakudo ?
14:47 tadzik jnthn, donaldh, pong :)
14:47 donaldh tadzik: enquiring about sockets on jvm ^^
14:47 tadzik jvm-sockets is present in both nqp and rakudo
14:47 lizmat jnthn: does this look sane?
14:47 lizmat multi trait_mod:<is>(Routine $r, :&equiv!) {
14:47 lizmat nqp::can(&equiv, 'prec')
14:47 lizmat ?? trait_mod:<is>($r, :prec(&equiv.prec))
14:47 lizmat !! die "Routine given to equiv does not appear to be an operator";
14:47 lizmat }
14:47 tadzik in rakudo it implements IO::Socket::INET that works
14:47 tadzik doesn't pass the tests, because we have no open(..., "p")
14:48 lizmat jnthn: it looks like any "is equiv" dies in the settings
14:48 FROGGS joined #perl6
14:48 donaldh open (…, "p") ?
14:48 lizmat and the only "is equiv" I see in the settings, are the once I just added frmom niecza
14:48 tadzik donaldh: pipes
14:48 tadzik io-socket-inet.t relies on that
14:49 donaldh surely that's unix, no?
14:49 tadzik I'm not sure
14:49 tadzik oh, sure
14:49 tadzik it's using some different hack on windows
14:49 jnthn lizmat: is equiv? I think it does, which iirc is why there's a big chunk of stuff at the end of the setting.
14:49 jnthn lizmat: Which sets all the precedence traits up.
14:51 lizmat aha!  ok
14:51 jnthn lizmat: See end of src/core/operators.pm
14:51 lizmat found it, yes
14:51 jnthn 'tis there
14:51 lizmat I guess I need to add them there, rather than at definition time
14:51 jnthn I musta decided it was better to avoid the issue than take it on. That probably means it's hairy, or I was just lazy :)
14:52 donaldh tadzik, I started hacking sockets but using NIO. I'll maybe try and meld my SyncSocket into the rest of your work.
14:53 FROGGS r: my $a; temp $a; say "jnthn, have you seen that?"
14:53 camelia rakudo 59b2df:  ( no output )
14:54 tadzik donaldh: my sockets are only synchronous
14:54 jnthn NIO can do dync too :)
14:54 jnthn uh, sync
14:55 tadzik then it's probably saner for us to use it for everything
14:55 donaldh tadzik: also. My impl shared 90% with FileHandle.
14:56 tadzik sounds good :)
14:56 tadzik feel free to replace mine with yours
14:57 donaldh tadzik: looks like you have done most of the hard work in Ops.java, Compiler.nqp and most importantly, rakudo.
14:58 FROGGS do I have to set the memory limit for C:\Programme\Java\jdk1.7.0_11\bin\javaw.exe, or the javac.exe?
14:58 FROGGS or for the jre only?
14:59 jnthn FROGGS: It tends to just be set when invoking the jvm (with java) as done in perl6[.bat]
14:59 FROGGS ahh
14:59 FROGGS hmm
14:59 jnthn FROGGS: Note that the spectests use an evilserver
14:59 jnthn um
14:59 jnthn evalserver
14:59 donaldh lol
15:00 jnthn So maybe its memory use needs a tweak
15:00 jnthn heh, what a thinko :)
15:00 FROGGS MUHAHAHAHAA
15:00 donaldh jnthn: you were right the first time :D
15:00 FROGGS it was -Xms100m
15:01 ajr joined #perl6
15:04 FROGGS cool, it is working now I think
15:04 kaare_ joined #perl6
15:06 jaldhar joined #perl6
15:10 ajr joined #perl6
15:13 colomon evilserver!
15:13 colomon evilserver++
15:15 btyler joined #perl6
15:17 jnthn bbi20
15:17 dalek joined #perl6
15:35 FROGGS T-2min
15:40 prevost joined #perl6
15:41 tadzik donaldh: good :)
15:42 berekuk joined #perl6
15:42 TimToady FROGGS: you're assuming he meant minutes :)
15:43 FROGGS TimToady: and I'm assuming decimals :o)
15:45 pdcawley joined #perl6
15:46 prevost joined #perl6
15:47 TimToady lizmat: $?foo is lexically scoped, but most the the predefined ones can be put in the setting, though some of the values we might want to generate lazily; we could populate %?ENV on first mention, for instance, since most programs won't use it
15:47 lizmat TimToady: I was thinking about the case of the core setting vs something like lib/Test.pbc
15:48 TimToady what's the problem?
15:48 lizmat one could envision that .pbc files were compiled on another time / place than the setting
15:48 jnthn There was a queue... :P
15:49 lizmat so that the %?ENV that lib/Test.pbc had seen, would be different from the %?ENV that the settings saw when they were compiled
15:50 jnthn lizmat: Does %?ENV exist?
15:50 TimToady well, and what's wrong with that?
15:50 TimToady jnthn: it was speculated that it exists yesterday
15:50 lizmat at the moment we only have one %?ENV, no?
15:50 lizmat or is that already "local" to the compunit anyway ?
15:50 kaleem joined #perl6
15:51 jnthn At the moment Rakudo has no %?ENV afaik :)
15:51 jnthn There's %*ENV which is typically found in PROCESS
15:51 FROGGS r: say %?ENV
15:51 camelia rakudo 59b2df: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/D9s2jQYDbu�Variable '%?ENV' is not declared�at /tmp/D9s2jQYDbu:1�------> [32msay %?ENV[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�    expecting any of:�        postfix�»
15:51 jnthn For any of the $?FOO, though, the assumption is that it's about what was there at compile time
15:51 lizmat well, %?ENV is just an example, same goes for any $?foo variable
15:52 jnthn lizmat: Sure, but that's the way $?FOO variables work. That's the point of them. :)
15:52 lizmat ok, then I will shut up  :-)
15:52 jnthn $?OS # what OS was running when we compiled
15:52 jnthn $*OS # what OS are we running on
15:53 jnthn I'd guess the $?OS like ones live in UNIT...
15:53 TimToady funny that you picked $*OS...
15:53 * lizmat blames being exposed to Sets/Bags too long
15:54 jnthn TimToady: oh, what did I forget about it? ))
15:54 TimToady that the spec considers it an underspecified them, like 'length'
15:55 TimToady my rakudo runs on a VM supplied by a DISTRO built around some KERNEL
15:55 TimToady which of those is really the OS?
15:56 FROGGS DISTRO can be like debian, ubuntu, centos then?
15:56 TimToady that's the notion
15:57 FROGGS is microsoft a distributor or windows?
15:57 FROGGS of*
15:57 tadzik I think vista is a distro of windows
15:57 FROGGS yeah, and all have the NT kernel I suppose
15:57 FROGGS (except the one that don't)
15:58 FROGGS like windows ce on powerpc or whatever will be there in five years
15:58 TimToady well, any system is going to map poorly to reality sometimes, but one level of OS maps particularly poorly
15:58 FROGGS is there a map of examples for DISTRO/KERNEL?
16:00 TimToady not really, it's kinda fuzzy, as our initial understanding of 'length'-like units was
16:01 TimToady but the three levels seems adequate for linux-y distrubtions
16:01 TimToady I suppose I'd be open to naming the kernel one OS
16:01 TimToady since that's shorter, and people have trouble remembering how to spell kernel
16:02 FROGGS hmmm, DISTRO=Ubuntu, KERNEL=3.5.0, OS=linux, ARCH=x86_64
16:02 TimToady but each of those is supposed to be an object, so current usage of $*OS would have to become $*OS.name
16:02 TimToady no
16:02 TimToady they aren't strings
16:03 TimToady though they might stringify that way
16:03 FROGGS yeah, I've seen that VM has attributes
16:03 TimToady in particular KERNEL is linux-3.5.0
16:03 TimToady or OS
16:04 TimToady each of these levels tends to have a name/auth/ver
16:04 TimToady (in linux-land anyway)
16:04 FROGGS DISTRO.name = Ubuntu, DISTRO.ver=13.04, DISTRO.auth=canocial
16:04 FROGGS that fits
16:05 TimToady even if we rename KERNEL to OS, it's probably not going to stringify as just 'linux'
16:07 TimToady and DISTRO probably gistifies to Ubuntu-13.04
16:07 TimToady since the authority is usually implicit in the name
16:08 FROGGS yeah
16:08 TimToady or a given name has a default authority, but forks can have an explicit authority
16:09 Teratogen sporks
16:09 Teratogen sporking, a new Perl 6 idiom
16:09 FROGGS k, so KERNEL or OS .name would be linux, and .ver = 3.5.0
16:09 TimToady linux-FROGGS-1.0.0  your new fork of the linux kernel :)
16:09 FROGGS I think I'm making a map of the >10 OSes I have, then we might see if it fits or not
16:10 TimToady that would be good
16:10 TimToady note how your fork can reset its version number, since authority really comes before version
16:11 FROGGS nod
16:12 TimToady maybe we'll need a BROWSER/WEBSERVER level in there too :)
16:13 FROGGS it is getting complicated these days
16:13 TimToady we probably need to make sure these object dispatch nicely to a set of multi-sigs
16:13 TimToady *jects
16:14 TimToady so we can have constraint matching that can talk about 3.5+ and such
16:14 TimToady er, v3.5+
16:14 FROGGS well, you could have a `where OS.name eq '...'`
16:14 TimToady well, would be nice to do it with positionals or nameds
16:14 FROGGS or *.name or what the syntax is
16:15 FROGGS that would be nice for all kinds of objects
16:16 TimToady multi sub kernel ('linux', *, v3.5+) { do_this() }
16:16 FROGGS like I could have a multi for a thing that has length > 10, and another multi for length <= 10
16:16 TimToady er, $ rather than *
16:16 TimToady well, maybe
16:16 TimToady certainly with 'where'
16:17 TimToady don't think we quite allow 0..10 as a literal in a sig
16:17 TimToady std: sub foo(1..10) {...}
16:17 camelia std 06636e4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unable to parse signature at /tmp/B73ARrsesh line 1:�------> [32msub foo[33m�[31m(1..10) {...}[0m�Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/B73ARrsesh line 1:�------> [32msub foo(1[33m�[31m..10) {...}[0m�    expecting any of:�    co…
16:17 TimToady std: sub foo($ where 1..10) {...}
16:17 camelia std 06636e4: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 45m␤»
16:18 FROGGS std: multi sub test ( $a where .length 1..10 ) { }
16:18 camelia std 06636e4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unable to parse signature at /tmp/5h9mivTjK1 line 1:�------> [32mmulti sub test [33m�[31m( $a where .length 1..10 ) { }[0m�Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/5h9mivTjK1 line 1:�------> [32mmulti sub test ( $a where .length[3…
16:18 FROGGS err, missing an infix
16:18 FROGGS bbl, dinner
16:23 TimToady multi sub kernel($k where (:name<linux>, :ver(v3.5+))) {...}  # I guess this should work already
16:30 TimToady oh, only without the where
16:34 TimToady and I suppose a named interface is less fragile in a fractal landscape (see BUILD)
16:35 teslos joined #perl6
16:36 lizmat ok, I'm giving up for now
16:36 lizmat the patches for Set/Bag update behaviour and associated error while compiling at: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/6367558
16:37 lizmat cycling and dinner&
16:37 TimToady o/
16:39 sjohnson ( `ー´)
16:43 diakopter jnthn: u not in the other channel
16:44 Pleiades` joined #perl6
16:53 jnthn diakopter: ?
16:55 panchiniak joined #perl6
17:00 abnorman joined #perl6
17:01 diakopter jnthn: er, nm; oops
17:06 * jnthn wonders if dinner will wake him up a bit...
17:06 * TimToady is dubious
17:11 sjohnson it will if there's a thumbtack hidden in it
17:11 xinming_ joined #perl6
17:22 jaldhar joined #perl6
17:23 jnthn sjohnson: um...nej tack :P
17:24 dmol joined #perl6
17:24 sjohnson what's a nej? :)
17:24 sjohnson is that the sound of "no" after you accidently bit on one?  ;~;
17:26 mauke joined #perl6
17:28 moritz sjohnson: just the Swedish spelling of "no"
17:28 geekosaur "nay!"
17:29 sjohnson heh
17:29 jnthn And together, "nej tack" is Swedish for "no thanks" :)
17:31 sjohnson i'm impressed
17:34 sjohnson jnthn: that worked out well :)
17:36 dalek star: 398f993 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2013.08.md:
17:36 dalek star: fix typo, (Cole Keirsey)++
17:36 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/398f993e20
17:39 mauke who here might have handed out lots of karma but not under the nick "dalek"?
17:40 moritz mauke: historically? or recently?
17:40 mauke recently
17:40 moritz dunno; but many of us are generous with karma
17:41 mauke because I don't think you had 4946 karma a while ago
17:41 moritz .karma mauke
17:41 moritz I don't even think we track karma in here at the moment
17:41 FROGGS ARGGGHHH, in the middle of S29 spectests it runs into memory limit >.<
17:41 PerlJam moritz++  ;)
17:41 moritz (though I may eventually extract it from the logs)
17:41 FROGGS after hours!
17:41 mauke preflex does :-)
17:43 mauke preflex: karma moritz
17:43 preflex moritz: 4947
17:44 mauke http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/search/?nick=&amp;q=%2B%2B doesn't work, sadly
17:47 sjohnson .karma sjohnson
17:48 sjohnson @karma sjohnson
17:48 * sjohnson gives up.
17:48 mauke preflex: karma sjohnson
17:48 preflex sjohnson: 4
17:48 tadzik sjohnson++ # fatfaces
17:48 sjohnson heh
17:49 * flussence wonders how useful I am by some arbitrary number metric
17:49 flussence preflex: karma flussence
17:49 preflex flussence: 58
17:49 flussence oh wow, bit higher than I thought
17:50 sjohnson mauke: preflex is written in Haskell?
17:50 mauke yes
17:51 sjohnson is the source code available for the public eye?
17:51 sjohnson i'm curious what kind of technology is employed to allow it to connect to the internet
17:52 mauke it's not really public because I think it's kind of shit
17:52 sjohnson ah, so perhaps on an "ask nicely, don't criticize it" basis?
17:53 mauke http://mauke.hopto.org/preflex/
17:53 mauke you can criticize all you want :-)
17:53 ponbiki left #perl6
17:53 mauke but the magic technology is sockets
17:54 sjohnson moritz: while we're on the topic of bot stuff, is it possible to update hugme without having to ^C it / have it reconnect to freenode?
17:54 sjohnson i'm kind of thinking it
17:54 sjohnson might be very handy if one could change its codebase with constant join/part/quits
17:54 sjohnson without*
17:55 sjohnson i suppose some sort of "plugin paradigm" might allow such a thing.
17:56 flussence that's kind of exactly what an irc bouncer is for
17:56 mauke preflex can do that
17:56 sjohnson mauke: did you do it in such a way that you can "unload" and "load" its functionality sort of like a plugin?
17:56 mauke this part *is* magic, though
17:56 mauke no, its "plugins" are statically compiled in
17:57 sjohnson i'm starting to think i need to start using your bot for my own bizarre ideas.
17:57 flussence irssi can update in-place, but I'm scared to look at how it does it
17:57 mauke that's how preflex does it, more or less
17:58 mauke it exec()s itself, passing serialized state as command line parameters
17:58 tadzik ooh :)
17:58 flussence looks like /upgrade does indeed work (at the cost of all my scrollback)
17:58 mauke the socket logic is much simpler, though, because preflex only connects to one server at a time
17:58 SamuraiJack__ joined #perl6
17:59 mauke (I'm running multiple instances)
17:59 mauke flussence: fails horribly with SSL connections :-)
18:00 flussence I noticed, good thing I'm too lazy to use ssl on anything I actually talk on :)
18:20 Rotwang joined #perl6
18:20 Rotwang joined #perl6
18:22 jnthn om nom
18:24 dagurval preflex: karma dagurval
18:24 preflex dagurval: 18
18:24 jnthn preflex: karma jnthn
18:24 preflex jnthn: 4222
18:25 colomon preflex: karma colomon
18:25 preflex colomon: 264
18:25 dagurval o_o
18:25 jnthn moritz works harder than me here :)
18:25 FROGGS preflex: karma Jonathan Worthington
18:25 preflex Jonathan Worthington: 1
18:25 FROGGS O.o
18:26 jnthn preflex: karma jonathan
18:26 preflex jonathan: 2169
18:26 grondilu joined #perl6
18:26 FROGGS preflex: karma FROGGS
18:26 preflex FROGGS: 147
18:26 FROGGS preflex: karma Tobias Leich
18:26 preflex Tobias Leich: 138
18:26 FROGGS :o)
18:26 diakopter preflex: karma not_gerd
18:26 preflex not_gerd: 60
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma diakopter
18:27 preflex diakopter: 190
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma lwall
18:27 preflex lwall: 415
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma larry
18:27 preflex larry: 57
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma TimToady
18:27 preflex TimToady: 390
18:27 diakopter heh
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma autrijus
18:27 preflex autrijus has no karma
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma audreyt
18:27 preflex audreyt: 47
18:27 diakopter preflex: karma au
18:27 preflex au: 64
18:28 abnorman joined #perl6
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18:49 denis_boyun joined #perl6
18:50 FROGGS TimToady: we are missing arch somehow: https://ethercalc.org/wrwsbhvuim
18:51 FROGGS TimToady: I think it matters if you have a x86_64 or 68k
18:54 berekuk joined #perl6
18:54 moritz preflex: karma lizmat
18:54 preflex lizmat: 148
18:54 moritz preflex: karma moritz
18:54 preflex moritz: 4947
18:57 dalek nqp: 360e781 | (Dagur Valberg Johannsson)++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/reprs/VMArray.c:
18:57 dalek nqp: Check for out of bounds. Fixes rakudo crash on "Buf.new.subbuf(0, 1)\;
18:57 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/360e781cd0
18:57 moritz dagurval++
19:00 dagurval \o/
19:02 dagurval Would it make sense to make subbuf behave like substr?
19:02 moritz yes
19:02 berekuk joined #perl6
19:02 dagurval I'd like to work on that
19:04 jnthn ++dagurval
19:08 * moritz also hopes that in the future the VMs will over some of memcopy-like interface which makes subbuf, concatenation and other operations a lot faster
19:09 moritz dagurval: it would make sense to throw an X::OutOfRange exception from Perl 6 land in subbuf
19:09 flussence I'm stuck travelling offline tomorrow so I might make a HTML5::Entities module, reason being that the part of rakudo that's supposed to handle those in E<> is... really outdated.
19:10 flussence (only recognises xhtml1.0 names and lives in parrot-land)
19:10 moritz ++flussence
19:12 flussence and anyway, how many other programming languages can claim to have partial HTML5 support in the core? :)
19:12 mauke PHP
19:12 tadzik :)
19:14 dagurval moritz: not if we want subbuf to behave like Str.substr
19:14 dagurval r: "".substr(0, 2).say
19:14 camelia rakudo 9faa30: OUTPUT«␤»
19:15 flussence mauke: looks like <? htmlspecialchars() ?> only supports HTML5 as of PHP 5.4, so we're not that far behind
19:15 moritz r: ''.substr(-2, )
19:15 camelia rakudo 9faa30: OUTPUT«Start argument to substr out of range. Is: -2, should be in 0..Inf; use *-2 if you want to index relative to the end␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 381820 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:162005) (src/gen/CORE.setting:10155)␤called from Sub 'sink' pc 417689 (src/gen/CORE.sett…
19:15 moritz dagurval: well, in some cases it does throw :-)
19:15 FROGGS r: "".substr(2, 2).say # index out of bounds, not length out of bounds :o)
19:15 camelia rakudo 9faa30: OUTPUT«Start of substr out of range. Is: 2, should be in 0..0␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:11528␤  in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:987␤  in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:12424␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:984␤  in method say at src/gen/CORE…
19:17 dagurval ah, I see the difference :)
19:18 moritz fwiw I'm not sure if the way rakudo does it with substr is actually specced
19:20 dagurval "While it is illegal for the start position to be outside of the string, it is allowed for the final position to be off the end of the string; in this case the entire rest of the string is returned, whatever is available."
19:20 dagurval Seems to be!
19:37 diakopter moritz: or a mem-non-copy ;)
19:38 moritz diakopter: Buf ropes!
19:39 diakopter bufcowropes
19:39 diakopter like buffalo cow ropes
19:41 * jnthn tries to decide if that'd be something you eat or not
19:41 moritz jnthn: ropes don't sound very tasty to me
19:41 jnthn But buffalo mozerella is good...
19:42 masak evening, #perl6
19:42 moritz good UGT morning, masak
19:43 moritz masak: feel reminded of t3 reviews!
19:45 masak moritz: acknowledged!
19:45 jnthn masak: I really want to know how good terminator 3 is too!
19:45 masak jnthn: not nearly as good as t2.
19:46 moritz jnthn: it's, well, finished. Terminated. :-)
19:47 PerlJam masak: It's been so long since the contest that it took me almost a full minute to grok what "t3" was in this context.  ;)
19:47 PerlJam masak: at this pace you'll be finished just in time to start all over again
19:48 * jnthn wonders if it might wrap around...
19:48 jnthn "No contest this year, still reviewing last year's" :)
19:49 PerlJam moritz, masak: weren't the two of you taking a collaborative approach to reviews?  Or did I just imagine that?
19:49 masak that was last year.
19:49 masak sorry about it taking a long time. even I am surprised.
19:50 masak I guess $dayjob is using me more than I've been able to internalize.
19:50 masak or maybe I'm just worse these days at finding tuits for p6cc reviews. :/
19:50 masak anyway, I strongly doubt there'll be a p6cc2013.
19:50 PerlJam masak: no need to apologize (to anyone as far as I'm concerned).
19:51 PerlJam in some sense the contest itself was the meat, and the reviews are "just" gravy.
19:51 tadzik masak: I'll do it if you don't
19:51 tadzik maybe it won't be that awesome, or of that scale, or of that formula, but there'll be one
19:51 PerlJam tadzik++
19:52 cognominal joined #perl6
19:53 cognominal joined #perl6
19:54 flussence my netbook can't compile jakudo :(
19:54 spider-mario I thought it was called Rakujo
19:54 masak tadzik: huh. :)
19:54 flussence I guess I'll just sacrifice this sd card for swap space...
19:54 masak spider-mario: actually, it's called Jajujo.
19:55 spider-mario :D
19:55 flussence Jjjjjj?
19:55 masak JAJUJO! \o/
19:55 spider-mario flussence : you might want to consider zram
19:55 tadzik this is how we call
19:55 spider-mario it uses some RAM as compressed swap
19:55 masak which contrasts it to its other incarnations, Papupo and Mamumo.
19:55 spider-mario that’s a funny idea but it might help
19:55 PerlJam is that ja-ju-jo or JA-ju-jo or ja-JU-jo or ja-ju-JO?
19:56 masak PerlJam: it's JA-JU-JO!
19:56 masak :P
19:56 jnthn flussence: You might be able to build it on a more powerful machine and then copy the JARs over... :)
19:56 tadzik well, aren't the jars identical everywhere?
19:56 tadzik We could just have a buildbot :)
19:57 jnthn tadzik: aye
19:57 jnthn tadzik: Well, paths aside perhaps
19:58 masak tadzik: if you do p6cc2013, I'd be happy to assist you in various ways.
19:58 masak tadzik: I have three years of prior experience which might be of use... :)
19:59 flussence spider-mario: I already had zram (1.5GB total); it barely makes it through "Stage jast" then gets OOM-killed on the next part
19:59 spider-mario ah.
20:00 flussence hopefully with an extra 16GB it'll work :)
20:00 tadzik hehe
20:00 spider-mario hope it’s a fast sd card, though
20:00 flussence with the CPU in this thing I don't think I'd notice a difference
20:02 flussence it takes *exactly* 1 hour to build parrot on it though :)
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20:43 flussence it worked! and I can even run rakudo-jvm outside the directory and have it complain about none of these modules being installed :D
20:44 * lizmat is back and sad that nobody had an idea about her gist https://gist.github.com/lizmat/6367558
20:44 jnthn .oO( what gist? :) )
20:44 * diakopter didn't see it
20:44 jnthn called from Sub 'missing' pc 12817 (src/gen/perl6-grammar.pir:4629) (src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:236)
20:44 jnthn That is probably a big hint.
20:45 lizmat perhaps a big hint for you, but not for me
20:45 jnthn lizmat: It's some kind of syntax error, looks like
20:45 lizmat yeah, I figured as much as well, but *where*  !
20:45 jnthn lizmat: Was that --ll-exception output?
20:45 lizmat no
20:46 jnthn Try that maybe, but it's failing to construct the exception object...
20:46 lizmat not sure where to put that in the makefile
20:46 jnthn on the line that compiles CORE.setting
20:46 jnthn before --setting=NULL is fine enough
20:47 denis_boyun joined #perl6
20:47 lizmat found it
20:49 * masak .oO( call 'missing' maybe )
20:49 lizmat compiling now
20:49 diakopter masak: this method
20:50 diakopter masak: this method is
20:50 lizmat no difference in output :-(
20:50 diakopter might as well not botch the joke
20:50 masak diakopter: ;)
20:50 jnthn lizmat: Well, it must be some syntax error inside an if block in your local diff...
20:51 lizmat are you sure it is in an if?  not in a only sub ?
20:51 jnthn yes, two down from missing
20:51 jnthn called from Sub 'statement_control:sym<if>'
20:51 lizmat ok, looking
20:53 lizmat commenting out lines like Bag.new-from-pairs($set.map({ ; $_ => [*] @bags>>.{$_} }));
20:55 lizmat nope, that's not it
21:04 * flussence is reminded why the general populace hates java...
21:04 flussence real 0m20.792s
21:04 diakopter ?
21:04 diakopter the general populace loves java
21:04 flussence rakudo-parrot only takes 6 seconds to start up here
21:05 [Coke] startup cost is irrelevant for everything I use java for.
21:05 jnap joined #perl6
21:05 diakopter right, either very long-running things or effectively indefinitely running things
21:05 flussence I guess I need to write bigger scripts then
21:06 diakopter which is nearly every software that exists
21:07 [Coke] certainly won't help us in the "write a quick script to get stuff done" categorgy, though.
21:13 kbaker joined #perl6
21:14 lizmat apparently there is more than 1 problem: now down to Could not find sub &METAOP_NEGATE
21:14 benabik Huh. My REPL accepts both (|) and (&) from lizmat's gist and that's the only bits I could find with if blocks.
21:15 lizmat I bet you just tried that with a built rakudo
21:15 lizmat it only fails as part of bulding the core settings, afaics
21:15 benabik Ah.
21:16 flussence okay I take that back
21:16 benabik patch does not apply?
21:17 flussence this random script I'm messing with is 23s for parrot vs 28s for jvm (1 module, precompiled on both)
21:17 flussence which works out to about...
21:17 Guillaume2 joined #perl6
21:17 flussence r: (28 - 20)/(23 - 6)
21:17 camelia rakudo 9faa30:  ( no output )
21:18 flussence r: say (28 - 20)/(23 - 6)
21:18 camelia rakudo 9faa30: OUTPUT«0.470588␤»
21:18 flussence r: say 1/((28 - 20)/(23 - 6))
21:18 camelia rakudo 9faa30: OUTPUT«2.125␤»
21:18 Guillaume2 Hello how can I access the Cocoa API from OS/X using Perl6 ?
21:18 flussence 212% faster
21:18 Guillaume2 Can I ?
21:18 benabik flussence: Using crazy math, maybe?
21:19 flussence my brane's not in numbers mode right now, so probably :)
21:19 flussence 112% faster sounds about right...
21:20 benabik A 5s difference is over 100% faster?
21:20 benabik Guillaume2: Rakudo can talk to C APIs, but I don't think there's any way to access Cocoa without Objective C
21:20 * benabik could be wrong.
21:20 Guillaume2 I see...right it's Objective C
21:21 flussence it's a 9 second difference not counting the startup times, on a short-running script
21:21 geekosaur wrappers exist for various languages but I don't think anyone has written such for perl6 yet
21:21 Guillaume2 yeah the object mapping between objective c and perl...dont know how that would work
21:22 Guillaume2 maybe in a few years
21:22 Guillaume2 :)
21:22 benabik Someone did it for Ruby, but I don't know how.
21:22 benabik (Other than a lot of (ab)use of method_missing)
21:23 Guillaume2 I guess I'll write a web app
21:23 flussence for a native GUI, GTK or EFL is probably the most straightforward route right now
21:23 Guillaume2 yeah could do that too
21:24 Guillaume2 I wanna write a Bible software with Bibles in many language, I wanna be able to cross-reference between Hebrew, Greek and let's say English
21:25 Guillaume2 I need to be able to print Hebrew and Greek characters
21:25 benabik You could use rakudo-jvm and then use Swing or SWT, maybe?
21:25 diakopter Guillaume2: I just wanted to make sure you know there are thousands of programs out there that do that...
21:25 Guillaume2 oh yeah that would be multiplatform
21:26 Guillaume2 yeah for $500
21:26 lizmat jnthn: does this ring a bell:
21:26 lizmat $ perl6 src/core/Set.pm
21:26 lizmat ===SORRY!===
21:26 lizmat CHECK FAILED:
21:26 lizmat Calling 'infix:<(-)>' will never work with argument types (Set, Set) (lines 144, 144, 144, 144)
21:26 lizmat Expected: :(\p)
21:26 * benabik hates writing GUIs, but scala's Swing wrappers made it not too bad.
21:26 Guillaume2 the SWORD project..the only open source project about this particular topic dont produce anything
21:27 lizmat only sub infix:<(-)>(\p) {
21:27 lizmat colomon: any thoughts on this only sub infix ?
21:27 Guillaume2 that's why I wanna write my own app in Perl6
21:27 abnorman joined #perl6
21:28 jnthn lizmat: Those errors are usually correct
21:28 jnthn lizmat: Is the proto for that op wrong, maybe?
21:28 jnthn lizmat: Yes, the error is correct. An infix should take two arguments! :)
21:28 jnthn rakudo++ # catching it at compile time :)
21:29 lizmat well, the niecza version says: (\|$p)
21:29 lizmat but that's not valid either
21:30 lizmat maybe it should be a slurpy?
21:30 jnthn lizmat: What's the whole sub look like?
21:30 lizmat only sub infix:<(-)>(\p) {
21:30 lizmat return set() unless p;
21:30 lizmat if p[0] ~~ Baggy {
21:30 lizmat my @bags = p.map(*.Bag);
21:30 lizmat my $base = @bags.shift;
21:30 lizmat Bag.new-from-pairs($base.keys.map({ ; $_ => $base{$_} - [+] @bags>>.{$_} }));
21:30 lizmat }
21:30 lizmat else {
21:30 lizmat my @sets = p.map(*.Set);
21:30 lizmat my $base = @sets.shift;
21:30 lizmat Set.new: $base.keys.grep(* !(elem) @sets.any );
21:30 lizmat }
21:31 lizmat in niecza, the sig was: only sub infix:<∖>(\|$p) is equiv(&infix:<^>) {
21:31 benabik Is it |p?
21:31 benabik \p is one argument, I think(?) |p is capture.
21:31 jnthn It may want to be |p or **@p
21:33 lizmat ok, trying to build settings again
21:35 xenoterracide joined #perl6
21:39 lizmat jnthn: why **@p and not *@p ?
21:40 jnthn lizmat: Avoid flattening
21:41 lizmat ah, yup
21:41 jnthn .oO( No LoL )
21:42 * masak .oO( No PrOjEcT EuLeR )
21:43 * masak Tene your twitter account sent me spam through DM. you might want to change your password or something.
21:43 masak argh, and I fail at IRC. :/
21:44 masak Tene: anyway, above. :/
21:44 colomon lizmat: set difference?  what's the question?
21:45 lizmat what your intent was with " only sub infix:<∖>(\|$p)"
21:45 lizmat |p  **@p ?
21:46 lizmat \|$p isn't valid syntax in rakudo
21:48 colomon it's supposed to capture all N arguments passed to the operator.
21:48 lizmat **@p then
21:49 colomon maybe?
21:49 jnthn **@p would match other list-assoc ops, I think
21:49 colomon right, it cannot flatten tehem
21:49 benabik \|$p isn't valid syntax anymore.  It's supposed to be just |p
21:50 virtualsue joined #perl6
21:51 lizmat all the changed files compile ok when run seperately (except some "The following packages were stubbed but not defined:" errors)
21:51 lizmat stll it doesn't build
21:52 lizmat I'll update the gist with the current state and call it a day
21:52 lizmat maybe a good night of sleep will bring inspiration
21:54 lizmat gist updated, comments/ideas/patches welcome!
21:54 lizmat https://gist.github.com/lizmat/6367558
21:54 lizmat sleep&
21:57 diakopter o/
22:04 masak 'night, #perl6
22:04 diakopter o/
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23:11 dalek std: d699c5f | Mouq++ | STD.pm6:
23:11 dalek std: Allow multiple unspaces in sequence
23:11 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/d699c5faf7
23:11 dalek std: 83f92a5 | larry++ | STD.pm6:
23:11 dalek std: Merge pull request #5 from perl6/multiunsp
23:11 dalek std:
23:11 dalek std: Allow multiple unspaces in sequence
23:11 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/83f92a523f
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