Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-09-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:12 Psyche^_ joined #perl6
00:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: eb7d578 | coke++ | / (5 files):
00:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/eb7d578522
00:20 timotimo [Coke]: any way you can look into the cancellations of all those rakudo-jvm tests?
00:21 [Coke] timotimo: aye. just coming off a narsty head cold.
00:21 [Coke] this is the most conscious I've felt since thursday. :)
00:22 timotimo good to hear you're feeling better!
00:23 [Coke] danke.
00:24 [Coke] I killed most of those manually. it went into the weeds when I commented earlier, and never came back, I manually killed all the subtests just now so I could get -a- run completed.
00:25 * diakopter boggles at p6u
00:26 * [Coke] fires up chrome...
00:26 timotimo oh
00:26 timotimo yikes
00:26 diakopter eiro: ping
00:27 timotimo easy solution: show him how string.split works
00:27 diakopter eiro: your mail to perl6-users made me boggle :) because rakudo doesn't use MoarVM yet...
00:28 timotimo oh, that's right. hehe
00:29 timotimo seems like there's people outside of our little bubble who are even more optimistic about our progress than us!
00:41 Mouq jnthn++ # RaNIW notes
00:48 flussence r: 'č' ~~ /<+:Print -:Space -:ID_Continue>/; # I'm trying to build a regex to filter out "weird" stuff like whitespace and combining chars, but all I can find for the latter is ID_Continue which is way too broad. Any ideas?
00:48 camelia rakudo b78da4: ( no output )
00:49 flussence r: say ?('č' ~~ /<+:Print -:Space -:ID_Continue>/); # er...
00:49 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«False␤»
00:49 flussence r: say ?('c' ~~ /<+:Print -:Space -:ID_Continue>/);
00:49 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«False␤»
00:50 flussence yeah, that's *definitely* not what I wanted...
00:56 TimToady r: say ?('č' ~~ /<+:Print>/);
00:56 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«True␤»
00:57 TimToady 'course, the notion of combining characters will be relatively meaningless under NFG...
00:58 flussence (fwiw, I'm trying to do stuff with this list, which is full of fiddly unicode: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/named-character-references.html#named-character-references )
00:59 TimToady oh, yes, ID_Continue is not what you want at all
00:59 Mouq r: say ?('č' ~~ /<+:Print -:Expands_On_NFC>/);
00:59 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«Unicode property 'Expands_On_NFC' not found␤  in regex  at /tmp/ync1WVOcfn:1␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:12080␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:742␤  in block  at /tmp/ync1WVOcfn:1␤␤»
01:00 flussence (also I find it pretty amusing that my browser doesn't understand most of those :)
01:02 Mouq flussence: You can peruse http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr44/tr44-4.html for classes, I don't know if that helps you
01:02 Mouq r: say ?('č' ~~ /<+:Modifier_Letter>/);
01:02 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«False␤»
01:03 flussence oh, that looks like a useful page
01:07 Mouq Oop, sorry, http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr44/ is up to date
01:08 [Coke] here's one NPE on rakudo.jvm: https://gist.github.com/coke/6679105
01:09 flussence r: say "\x2004" ~~ /<+:L +:N +:P>/;
01:09 flussence .oO( freenode's having a bad day today )
01:09 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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01:13 Mouq TimToady: Where do I look to remind myself what NFG is?
01:14 TimToady it isn't very well documented yet.  Basically it's NFC plus temporary characters generated for those graphemes that don't have a precomposed form.
01:14 timotimo it's a fixed-bytes-per-grapheme format that invents new codepoints for combinations of things in the negatives
01:15 TimToady well, negatives is an implementation detail, but yes
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01:15 [Coke] weird. the NPE is reporting from nqp code, not java code. adding --ll-exception still only shows nqp lines.
01:16 TimToady for a string with no combining characters, the NFC form is identical to the NFG form
01:16 Mouq Ohhh, cool. So, Normalized Form Great
01:16 Mouq :)
01:16 timotimo Normalized For Graphemes?
01:26 diakopter eiro: u around?
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01:38 TimToady so, basically, we just need to write a bangup QAST to Perl 6 translator, and then anyone who ports their language to the QAST backend has already written the Foolang-to-Perl6 translator :)
01:39 TimToady with sufficient refactoring smarts, it can even translate bad Perl 6 to good Perl 6 :)
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01:39 diakopter heh.
01:39 diakopter use v6; use Moose;
01:39 timotimo oh lord, they were right ... you truly are stark ravin' mad!
01:40 diakopter also, stork craving mad
01:40 timotimo hmm, does stork taste good?
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01:42 diakopter well, at least my runaway GC isn't consuming all memory anymore
01:43 diakopter now it's just spinning wildly
01:43 TimToady someday it will wise up and return home
01:44 diakopter "bad gc! you're supposed to collect the garbage, not multiply it!"
01:47 diakopter (I call it "my" gc since I've sufficiently corrupted it from jnthn's original design... )
01:47 diakopter the parallel-ness of it, anyway
02:01 benabik Porting QAST to perl 6 isn't hard...  It will just be Perl6 that generates a QAST tree and runs it.  :-D
02:05 timotimo don't forget there's more to it than just QAST, there's also the declarative bits like classes that'd have to be translated ... but at least perl6's class system is pretty flexible
02:06 timotimo (though of course you'd probably have a sixmodel based class/object system in your QAST-targeting language anyway and in theory could load the objects directly from a SC if need be)
02:11 benabik Looks clever although I'll make no guesses at correctness b/c I'm a bit tired.
02:13 diakopter benabik: the quicksort?
02:14 benabik diakopter: Guh, yes.  Sorry about channel hopping.
02:15 diakopter careful, obfuscating your online communications will soon be classed as "evading arrest" ;)
02:16 benabik Vg'f nyevtug, vs gurl gel gb qrpbqr zl zrffntrf, V'yy uvg gurz jvgu gur QZPN.
02:17 diakopter I think there's a pony somewhere in there
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02:20 diakopter boy, who wrote these threads.t tests; they're diabiological
02:21 benabik Okay, enough getting IRC wrong for me.  Gotta get up in the morning.  'night all.
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02:57 [Coke] looks like multiple of the jvm failures are due to: java.lang.NullPointerException in block  at src/gen/CORE.setting:1051
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06:17 eiro hello |@perl6
06:17 eiro diakopter, now i am
06:17 diakopter eiro: hi :)
06:18 diakopter I'm glad Patrick replied with the link to the Synopses about the record separator spec'd feature; I had a tiny memory it was there but no idea how to find it
06:20 eiro just read pmichaud's answer, replied to him and i'm trying to figure out if i could be able to patch rakudo and MoarMV
06:20 diakopter well, rakudo doesn't use MoarVM yet, so it'd be no use to patch MoarVM :)
06:21 diakopter but patching the spec seems more important, since it seems inconsistent at least
06:21 diakopter (as you pointed out)
06:21 eiro i have to admit i felt dumb when i realized i haven't look at the S*
06:22 diakopter I feel dumb every time I'm reminded I've read something there but forgot it; don't feel bad :)
06:22 eiro :)
06:23 eiro if a spec update can be done, it would be really cool to introduce IFS as well: it's usefull in many cases
06:23 diakopter what's IFS
06:23 eiro (posix DB, pure CSV or TSV, ISO2709 files)
06:24 eiro input-field-separator
06:24 diakopter surely that shouldn't be in the core language..?
06:24 diakopter (but a module instead?)
06:24 eiro \t , ",", ":"
06:24 diakopter oh
06:25 eiro well. the point of having a builtin for this so common operation is performance: we are always reading records then splitting them with the IFS
06:27 eiro perl -F: -lanE 'say $F[0]' /etc/passwd
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06:53 FROGGS o/
06:57 kaleem joined #perl6
06:59 brrt hi
07:05 hoelzro morning #perl6
07:05 moritz \o hoelzro, brrt, FROGGS, eiro
07:05 bonsaikitten http://bpaste.net/show/134925/ # y'all want a bugreport for that test failure in nqp-2013.09 ?
07:06 brrt hi moritz :-)
07:06 raiph joined #perl6
07:07 hoelzro in the JVM backend, does ((SixModelObject) smo).st.HOW == xmo?
07:07 hoelzro s/xmo/smo/
07:07 FROGGS bonsaikitten: yes, please
07:07 bonsaikitten alrighty then
07:08 FROGGS hoelzro: as far as I understand everything on the jvm backend is a smo
07:08 FROGGS same on moarvm, but not on parrot :o)
07:09 bonsaikitten urgh
07:09 bonsaikitten some bugtrackers just exceed my tolerance limit in the first minute
07:10 bonsaikitten well, at least it ain't githurp ...
07:10 moritz huh?
07:10 moritz the nqp bugtracker is the one on github
07:10 bonsaikitten oh? that's mildly confusing
07:11 bonsaikitten I'd have wrongly thought nqp is "part of" rakudo as far as bugtracking goes
07:11 bonsaikitten oh well, then I'll just have to ignore this bugreport :\
07:12 moritz or you just submit the bug on the nqp bugtracker
07:13 bonsaikitten which apparently implies githerpes, which I don't deal with
07:13 bonsaikitten hrm, my self-censoring seems to fail today
07:13 moritz ok, rephrase
07:14 moritz you don't *have* to ignore this bug
07:14 bonsaikitten if the nqp bugtracker lives on github I won't be able to use it
07:14 moritz why?
07:14 bonsaikitten too sober at this time of the day
07:15 FROGGS I'll submit it
07:15 bonsaikitten FROGGS: ok. need any more information?
07:15 FROGGS bonsaikitten: many thanks for the report anyway :o)
07:15 FROGGS err
07:16 FROGGS nqp --version
07:16 FROGGS and your uname -a
07:16 FROGGS that should be alright
07:16 arnsholt hoelzro: No, that doesn't sound right
07:17 arnsholt I think the only object whose HOW is itself is KnowHOW (the HOW which ends the recursion in 6model)
07:18 FROGGS .u 01F4A4
07:18 yoleaux U+1F4A4 SLEEPING SYMBOL [So] (????)
07:19 bonsaikitten FROGGS: that's while building 2013.09, and uname -a is Linux localhost 3.11.0-gentoo #1 SMP Wed Sep 4 10:27:45 CST 2013 x86_64 AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
07:19 FROGGS bonsaikitten: I'd still like to get nqp --version, because it includes the parrot version too
07:20 bonsaikitten This is nqp version 2013.09 built on parrot 5.7.0 revision 0 # there
07:20 FROGGS awesome, thank you!
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07:23 eiro FROGGS, maybe i missed a point: is IO.slurp on demand ? (like the haskell readFile ?)
07:24 FROGGS eiro: I don't know any haskell, sorry
07:24 FROGGS eiro: but yes, Str.IO makes an iohandle, which can be slurped then
07:25 FROGGS ohh
07:26 FROGGS now I see the mails
07:26 eiro the question is: "foo".IO.slurp.split("\n")[^3]
07:27 eiro does it read the whole file to get the first 4 lines
07:27 FROGGS I dont think slurp is lazy
07:27 eiro ?
07:28 FROGGS we really need to handle open( :nl ) I think, and pass that to nqp::readlinefh()
07:28 eiro so your solution isn't acceptable for me. anyway: i noted the >>.split syntax which is cool :)
07:29 FROGGS yeah, my solution isnt one actually ó.ò
07:29 eiro i need rakudo to run on moarvm if i want to patch myself
07:30 FROGGS yes, for now
07:31 FROGGS we should patch moarvm, and then port the readlinefh over to parrot
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07:32 eiro an chance to see S32 fixed first ?
07:32 moritz fwiw IO::Socket::INET already has an .input-line-separator
07:32 FROGGS eiro: you mean the naming of :nl ?
07:32 eiro yep
07:33 eiro moritz, so i can netcat my file :) this is a great idea!
07:34 lizmat .tell [Coke] the method2sub branch started using .can in SLICE_MORE in Any.pm, maybe .can is borked on jakudo ?
07:34 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
07:34 eiro FROGGS, not only :nl but .input-line-separator. RS is well known and used for a while, i really don't understand why introducing new conventions
07:35 moritz RS = Result Set?
07:35 arnsholt Record separator
07:35 eiro moritz, Record Separator
07:35 * moritz favors :separator with a :sep shortcut
07:35 arnsholt Same terms as AWK uses, if that's of any use to you =)
07:35 eiro IRS, IFS (shell, ISO charsets, awk, perl5, ...)
07:38 FROGGS .lines( :sep("\n") )>>.words( :sep<:> ) # I think I prefer :sep/:separator too
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07:38 FROGGS :ifs() is rather cryptic
07:38 * FROGGS .oO( insensitive file system? )
07:39 eiro unless you have an unix background or an experience as ISO spec reader
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07:39 eiro but you're right: it's not a lot of people nowaday
07:41 FROGGS moritz: do you think we break much when replacing IO::Socket::INET.input-line-separator?
07:41 FROGGS (if we are going to do that )
07:42 eiro also i liked the naming scheme : [IO][RFS]S
07:42 hoelzro oh, I see
07:42 hoelzro yeah, that makes sense
07:42 hoelzro I'm just trying to figure out how to get the "name" of an SMO on the JVM
07:42 masak morning, #perl6
07:42 hoelzro morning masak
07:42 hoelzro but maybe that operation doesn't even make sense
07:42 FROGGS morning masak
07:42 eiro 'lo masak
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07:44 hoelzro I've been hacking on tijmp (a object profiler for Java) to try and get it to give more data on a running Perl6 program
07:44 hoelzro so far, results are good
07:45 FROGGS r: my $a = "abc"; say $a.HOW.name($a) # hoelzro, do you mean this?
07:45 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«Str␤»
07:47 hoelzro FROGGS: right, but from the JVM
07:47 hoelzro I mean to say
07:47 hoelzro from within Java
07:47 FROGGS ahh, hmmm, no idea then :o)
07:48 hoelzro hmm
07:48 hoelzro I'm guessing I have to look up the name method for the HOW object
07:48 FROGGS yeah, it must compile to something
07:50 hoelzro ugh
07:50 hoelzro this will be fun
07:51 hoelzro oh well; it's a good chance to learn about the JVM backend =)
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07:56 arnsholt hoelzro: Thing is, I don't think types are explicitly named
07:56 hoelzro I figured
07:56 hoelzro hmm
07:56 * hoelzro tries an experiment
07:57 arnsholt OTOH, the ones that -are- named get names on the Perl 6 side
07:58 jnthn morning, #perl6
07:58 yoleaux 23 Sep 2013 23:27Z <TimToady> jnthn: Also, I don't think Trigometric is a word. (Slide 173)
07:58 hoelzro welcome back jnthn
07:58 jnthn ...so what do you call 'em? :)
07:58 hoelzro arnsholt: if I can just catch the ones that are named, that's fine
07:58 arnsholt Oh, jnthn probably knows how/if this can be done
07:58 hoelzro indeed =)
07:59 jnthn What're you trying to do? :)
07:59 hoelzro well
07:59 hoelzro two things
07:59 hoelzro both of which are on the JVM backend
07:59 hoelzro and unrelated to each other =)
08:00 hoelzro the first is a bug I found: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=119877
08:00 hoelzro I tried fixing it, but no dice
08:00 hoelzro the second is probably more interesting
08:00 hoelzro I'm working on modifying a JVM object profiler to work with Perl 6
08:00 * jnthn hands hoelzro a d20 or two...
08:01 hoelzro here's the initial result: http://hoelz.ro/files/perl6-objects.png
08:01 hoelzro r: (1..20).pick(1)
08:01 camelia rakudo b78da4: ( no output )
08:01 hoelzro r: say (1..20).pick(1)
08:01 camelia rakudo b78da4: OUTPUT«13␤»
08:01 hoelzro =/
08:02 hoelzro anywa
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08:02 hoelzro I would like to display the name of the appropriate SMO in that table
08:02 hoelzro instead of "org.nqp...SixModelObject"
08:04 jnthn I've for a while suspected that we might want to keep a "debugging name" for a type on the STable as a simple string.
08:04 jnthn And provide a way for the meta-object to set it
08:05 jnthn But that's Not Done Yet
08:05 hoelzro of course =)
08:05 hoelzro I was thinking just doing that for P6Opaques would help
08:05 jnthn For now your best bet is to arrange to call obj.HOW.name(obj)
08:05 jnthn You can use Ops.how to get the HOW from an object, or just pull it right out of the ST
08:06 jnthn There are examples of calling methods in various places.
08:06 jnthn It's a little setup work and it won't be fast, but it'll get you back a string type name.
08:07 hoelzro that's fine
08:07 hoelzro fast isn't a big deal =)
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08:22 dalek rakudo/nom: 367963a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (20 files):
08:22 dalek rakudo/nom: Sync class attributes comments between BOOTSTRAP and P6 modules for convenience
08:22 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/367963aab6
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08:29 jnthn morning, lizmat :)
08:30 masak suddenly, commi!
08:30 masak commit*
08:31 jnthn Was gonna say, I didn't spot the communist :P
08:32 * masak .oO( an Abelian group is a group where all the elements are communists )
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08:34 dalek Perlito: cac6146 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
08:34 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - grammar - number special cases
08:34 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/cac6146175
08:36 daxim http://news.perlfoundation.org/2013/09/hague-grant-application-accept.html
08:36 daxim congratulations
08:37 moritz \o/
08:37 moritz diakopter++
08:37 jnthn \o/
08:37 jnthn diakopter++
08:37 jnthn And, ++diakopter # need to do the grant now :D
08:38 arnsholt Oh, awesome!
08:38 diakopter heh.
08:38 masak diakopter++ ++diakopter
08:39 diakopter jnthn: fsdo "now"...
08:41 dalek Perlito: 2a9824c | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
08:41 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - grammar - number special cases
08:41 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/2a9824ce71
08:42 FROGGS diakopter++ \o/
08:46 tadzik finally, leopard
08:46 tadzik diakopter++
08:47 diakopter well, seeing as how she said I could start weeks ago... I already have anyway
08:48 hoelzro diakopter++
08:48 * hoelzro just saw the news!
08:49 diakopter .oO( report:  3 hours last Tuesday night solving coding problems in my sleep..; 2 hours daydreaming in $meetings about project )
08:49 diakopter (kidding entirely)
08:52 masak well. been there, done that.
08:53 diakopter meanwhile I need to write slides for http://pghpw.org/ppw2013/schedule
08:53 masak though I tend to daydream about p6cc problems and solutions :)
08:53 diakopter and actually good, interesting ones at that
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09:03 donaldh jnthn: hoelzro: re. debugging names in jvm, I was thinking along same lines. Would like to figure out a way of naming P6Opaques that at least relates them to comp unit.
09:03 hoelzro indeed
09:03 hoelzro that would be a big +
09:03 hoelzro for now, I'll just check for __P6Opaque and convert appropriately
09:03 jnthn Well, apart from I was pondering we could cache those by shape...
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09:03 FROGGS_ bonsaikitten: about the fileops.t fails: <arnsholt> It seems to work for me, on a Red Hat 6 machine. Could you perhaps try blowing away the install/ directory and recompiling everything?
09:04 bonsaikitten FROGGS_: ergh, that sounds quite silly
09:04 FROGGS_ bonsaikitten: why?
09:04 bonsaikitten because that was on initial compile
09:04 jnthn I think it belongs on the st...
09:04 donaldh jnthn: oh, true.
09:04 bonsaikitten and manually interfering with the build/test process is nasty
09:04 FROGGS_ bonsaikitten: ahh, oaky
09:05 donaldh jnthn: perhaps a build option. The benefit when using std debug and profiling tools would be immense.
09:06 donaldh On a related note, top 20 heap dump after parsing CORE.setting: https://gist.github.com/donaldh/6676995
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09:07 donaldh Suggests the average HashMap fill ratio is about 1.3
09:07 pmurias cxreg: ping
09:08 donaldh I'm guessing that it's quite wasteful for every QASTNode to have a hash. Maybe we can allocate hashes on demand here.
09:09 donaldh Maybe also true for the QASTNode arrays.
09:09 diakopter donaldh: agree++
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09:13 donaldh For fun, I implemented VMHash with a TreeMap instead of a HashMap. There was some memory saving, but not substantial. Turns out that TreeMap instances are quite beefy too.
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09:16 masak donaldh: maybe a LinkedList will save both memory and be faster? it's been known to happen.
09:16 dalek Perlito: c55f350 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
09:16 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - grammar - vstring placeholder
09:16 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/c55f35029f
09:16 tadzik faster?
09:17 donaldh masak: performance gain was negligible if any. I would need to run both several times over to get a more accurate measure.
09:18 donaldh And I'm finding I get quite a lot of variation on my poor macbook air.
09:20 * donaldh didn't realize that --stagestats had a wait feature.
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09:26 pmurias draft state of the JavaScript backend gsoc project: http://pastie.org/pastes/8351242/text
09:29 masak pmurias: wow. nice.
09:29 masak pmurias: s/so to/to/
09:29 diakopter pmurias: did you find a js bigint library? there are bunches
09:30 masak pmurias: how feasible is this: page with big textarea -- I type some nqp into it, hit "Run" -- it runs in the browser. my guess is: pretty darn feasible.
09:31 masak pmurias: (my point is, it would be a pretty compelling demo)
09:31 diakopter s/type some/paste many MB of/
09:31 masak an nqptidy sounds like a very fun weekend hackathon.
09:32 pmurias nqptidy is badly needed to enforce a coding standard without doing boring cleanup ;)
09:32 pmurias masak: re textarea demo it shouldn't be very hard
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09:34 dalek Perlito: f624047 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | t5/01-perlito/420-vstring.t:
09:34 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - tests - vstring
09:34 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/f624047796
09:35 domidumont left #perl6
09:36 jnthn pmurias++
09:36 pmurias masak: thanks for the suggestion, I'll work on it during today
09:37 diakopter pmurias: did you find a js bigint library? there are bunches
09:37 masak pmurias: I would happily be a devoted early adopter :)
09:38 pmurias diakopter: there seem to be tons of js bigint libraries, I would have to find one with a similiar API (or at least a similiar set of support operations)
09:39 pmurias diakopter: and I haven't really searched for that yet, it will not be required for the web demo
09:39 pmurias food&
09:39 diakopter https://npmjs.org/package/big-integer  # seem ok?
09:40 FROGGS pmurias++
09:41 diakopter pmurias: also this one looks quite hefty https://github.com/jtobey/javascript-bignum
09:41 diakopter (that page also has lots of links to others)
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09:51 arnsholt bonsaikitten: You're the one having trouble with https://github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/133 ?
09:52 denis_boyun joined #perl6
09:52 bonsaikitten arnsholt: I am
09:52 arnsholt I couldn't reproduce it on my machine, sadly
09:52 arnsholt Are you building Parrot with --gen-parrot?
09:54 bonsaikitten not explicitly
09:54 arnsholt Huh?
09:55 FROGGS can it be a file system issue?
09:55 bonsaikitten arnsholt: I don't see any explicit reference to --gen-parrot in the script that builds parrot
09:55 bonsaikitten so if it's not enabled by default then no
09:56 FROGGS it would be "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot" in nqp's folder
09:56 arnsholt So you just "perl Configure.pl && make test"?
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09:56 bonsaikitten arnsholt: with a plain make call in between
09:57 arnsholt Right
09:57 FROGGS bonsaikitten: and you are building nqp directly or via rakudo?
09:57 bonsaikitten FROGGS: I can try adding --gen-parrot to nqp build
09:57 bonsaikitten FROGGS: directly
09:57 FROGGS k
09:57 bonsaikitten waaat
09:58 bonsaikitten who made the makefile call "git pull"
09:58 arnsholt Looks like it won't build Parrot without gen-parrot, so I assume you have a system Parrot install?
09:58 bonsaikitten o_O This demands some angry words!
09:58 bonsaikitten arnsholt: yes
09:58 FROGGS if you can configure nqp without --gen-parrot, it means it finds a parrot in path (or it uses the one you provided with --with-parrot in an earlier configure run)
09:58 arnsholt Not the Makefile, but gen-parrot clones the Parrot repo and builds it. Done that since forever
09:59 arnsholt It's not a bug, it's a feature. Thought you knew about it =)
09:59 bonsaikitten ah, --gen-parrot is pure evil and must be ignored
09:59 bonsaikitten Thou Shalt Not Ignore The Package Manager!
10:01 arnsholt Works for most of us =)
10:02 FROGGS git is my package manager :P
10:02 arnsholt Given that we're mostly on non-rolling release systems, it's a lot simpler
10:03 bonsaikitten yeah, I'm too lazy for that :D
10:04 FROGGS bonsaikitten: what filesystem is that?
10:05 bonsaikitten FROGGS: XFS
10:05 sqirrel joined #perl6
10:05 * bonsaikitten *poof* for a few minutes
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10:16 FROGGS has somebody else here an XFS volume?
10:16 FROGGS I can't reproduce it either
10:16 FROGGS :o(
10:29 nwc10 pmurias: really really cool
10:29 nwc10 small grammar nit - "nqp concatenates it's files" - *that* it's should be its
10:29 nwc10 (the later "it's" is correct, as the later one is short for "it is")
10:30 nwc10 so, is JS going to self-host and run Rakudo before MoarVM? :-)
10:30 jnthn The race is on!
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10:34 FROGGS hehe
10:34 FROGGS jnthn: you are therefor not allowed to give pmurias++ any hints! ò.ó
10:35 tadzik haha, what a face
10:35 tadzik like ( `ー´)
10:35 FROGGS that looks like a fat pidgeon
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10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: cac6146 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: Perlito5 - grammar - number special cases
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/cac6146175
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: 2a9824c | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: Perlito5 - grammar - number special cases
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/2a9824ce71
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: c55f350 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: Perlito5 - grammar - vstring placeholder
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/c55f35029f
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: f624047 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | t5/01-perlito/420-vstring.t:
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: Perlito5 - tests - vstring
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/f624047796
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: ac9f6e1 | (Stanislaw Pusep)++ | / (5 files):
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: Merge branch 'master' into replito
10:45 dalek Perlito/replito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/ac9f6e16b1
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11:04 dalek Perlito: 3857c53 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
11:04 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - grammar - vstring parser
11:04 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/3857c530e1
11:05 lizmat r: class A { method foo { say "in foo"} }; my $r = A.can("foo")[0]; $r.add_phaser("ENTER", { say "bye" }); .perl.say for $r.phasers("ENTER"); A.new.foo  # why doesn't the ENTER phaser not fire
11:05 camelia rakudo 367963: OUTPUT«Block.new()␤in foo␤»
11:06 lizmat s/not//
11:06 lizmat jnthn: apparently the phaser *is* added to the list of phasers for that method, but it isn't called
11:07 lizmat ah, it needs to have a phaser of that type to begin with
11:07 lizmat r: class A { method foo { ENTER {}; say "in foo"} }; my $r = A.can("foo")[0]; $r.add_phaser("ENTER", { say "hello" }); .perl.say for $r.phasers("ENTER"); A.new.foo
11:08 camelia rakudo 367963: OUTPUT«Block.new()␤Block.new()␤hello␤in foo␤»
11:09 lizmat hmmm… nothing in the ast that points to any additional actions being done
11:12 bonsaikitten FROGGS: it might be related to any of gcc-4.8, glibc-2.17, perl-5.18.1 ... subtle changes can often cause "unrelated" failures
11:15 FROGGS bonsaikitten: true
11:16 * bonsaikitten is currently triaging build failures with bison-3
11:16 jnthn lizmat: It needs to be added during the compilation of the method.
11:16 bonsaikitten it's quite amusing how fragile things are :(
11:17 jnthn lizmat: That is, by code object "compose" times
11:17 jnthn lizmat: That's why a trait can do it just fine.
11:17 lizmat except nothing is there yet to do it at that point in the core setting
11:17 jnthn lizmat: Reason being that at that point, it looks at what traits we have, and augments the QAST tree for the method to do calls as needed.
11:18 lizmat yes, I get that now…
11:18 lizmat oddly enough, if there is an X phaser already, you *can* add more phasers at runtime
11:18 jnthn Yes :)
11:18 lizmat more X phasers, that is
11:18 jnthn 'cus the QAST just iterates the list of ENTER phasers
11:19 lizmat indeed
11:20 moritz cross phaser!
11:26 lizmat jnthn: was thinking that maybe it would be useful to have a Phaser is Block object, that would have a $!once attribute
11:26 lizmat so that after execution the first time, it would be thrown out of the list of phasers
11:26 jnthn But once is once per closure
11:27 lizmat or is there a better way to inject a once {} block into a sub with is DEPRECATED trait ?
11:27 jnthn Well, we could just fix add_phaser to not depend on stuff we didn't define yet... :)
11:28 lizmat looking at that, actually
11:28 lizmat so,seems once blocks already work early in the setting
11:28 lizmat so, all "is DEPRECATED" traits in the setting, would become once blocks
11:28 lizmat (and not have the trait formally added)
11:29 lizmat the trait would add an ENTER phaser with a once block
11:29 lizmat preferably a ONCE block, as it were
11:29 lizmat except that once {} is no longer a phaser
11:31 FROGGS moritz: DONT CROSS THE BEAMS!!11
11:31 dalek Perlito: 48ef9a7 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
11:31 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - grammar - vstring/bareword disambiguation
11:31 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/48ef9a7208
11:32 lizmat .oO( a X phaser would execute ENTER and LEAVE at the same time, thereby executing any code in the  block in constant time )
11:32 lizmat or no time ?
11:35 lizmat something like:
11:35 lizmat $ perl6 -e 'say "abc".ucfirst; say "def".ucfirst'
11:35 lizmat 'ucfirst has been deprecated, please use 'tc' instead  in block  at -e:1
11:35 lizmat Abc
11:35 lizmat Def
11:37 dalek Perlito: 880ba6e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
11:37 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - TODO update
11:37 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/880ba6e5c9
11:39 dalek rakudo/nom: 36343bc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Str.pm:
11:39 dalek rakudo/nom: We shouldn't be using deprecated methods in the settings ourselves
11:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/36343bc071
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11:59 dalek Perlito: ad9e15f | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
11:59 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js - object stringification
11:59 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/ad9e15f234
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12:15 dalek Perlito: add49ad | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
12:15 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js - object stringification
12:15 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/add49ad6ab
12:19 moritz is anybody working on star-on-jvm?
12:21 jnthn donahldh++ has done work on Panda towards that, and I believe arnsholt is working on Zavolaj, but not aware anybody is doing the stuff needed in the star repo...
12:21 jnthn I plan to give some tuits towards triaging spectests that fail on JVM in the coming days.
12:23 lizmat jnthn: the star release mentions "postcircumfix:<[ ]> and postcircumfix:<{ }> will become multi-subs rather than multi-methods. Both at_pos and at_key will remain methods."
12:23 lizmat so I guess we cannot use all capitals for at_key/at_pos
12:23 moritz I'll see how the modules-test for a potential star 2013.09 look
12:24 jnthn moritz++
12:24 moritz lizmat: we can change the deprecation notice for the 2013.09 star release
12:24 lizmat also: for 2013.09, we might want to mention that that change is going to be happening for the 2013.10 release
12:24 lizmat moritz: indeed  :-)
12:25 lizmat also, for the star release, maybe menttion that Sets/Bags and the like are now completely up to spec with exception of the empty set symbol
12:25 moritz lizmat: I think it's easiest if you mention that yourself :-)
12:28 Teratogen joined #perl6
12:28 Teratogen I am watching Windy by The Association music video on youtube and I swear Larry Wall is in the band!
12:28 moritz lizmat: I've given you a rakudo/star commit bit
12:29 moritz anyone else need one?
12:30 ajr joined #perl6
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12:37 dalek star: 0e02471 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | docs/announce/2013.09.md:
12:37 dalek star: Preliminary work on Rakudo Star 2013.09 announcement
12:37 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/0e02471de9
12:37 moritz lizmat++
12:37 lizmat moritz: handing it back to you again :-)
12:38 dalek star: 50bb81d | moritz++ | / (9 files):
12:38 dalek star: bump version in preparation of 2013.09
12:38 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/50bb81d165
12:40 moritz if anybody wants to help with the R* release: go through the modules, search for .bless(*, and remove the *,
12:41 masak idea for a module: ack through the source files of the entire ecosystem with a single command.
12:42 dmol joined #perl6
12:43 dalek doc: b3c7bd2 | moritz++ | lib/ (3 files):
12:43 dalek doc: remove * from bless
12:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b3c7bd2fe4
12:43 masak I don't have time to do it myself, but I would happily award an Amazon book (60 USD/45 EUR) to whoever does.
12:43 tadzik hmmmm
12:43 masak the module needs to meet my standards of code and tests for the prize to be handed out.
12:43 colomon joined #perl6
12:44 masak if you're unsure what those standards are, ask. :)
12:44 tadzik I'll let someone do it, I already got one book from you :)
12:44 jnthn Book? Meh. Now if it was beer... :P
12:45 masak jnthn gets a special expemtion clause of getting to claim 400 SEK worth of beer as a prize.
12:45 moritz use of uninitialized value of type Nil in numeric context  in method serialize at /home/mlenz/p6/star/install/lib/parrot/5.5.0/languages/perl6/lib/XML/Writer.pm:9
12:45 masak (the expemption clause is jnthn-specific. everyone else gets a book.)
12:46 moritz URI has several of the .bless(*,) cases
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12:47 masak joined #perl6
12:47 masak ouch. :/
12:47 jnthn netsplit?
12:47 masak I've been having lags on feather in the past few days.
12:47 masak is feather having trouble in some way?
12:47 [Sno] joined #perl6
12:47 jnthn masak: I just got reconnected to...
12:47 tadzik I didn't experience anything
12:47 jnthn And I'm not on feather
12:47 jnthn *too
12:47 moritz fwiw URI.pm seems cause the most of the .bless warnings in the star modules-test
12:48 moritz *seems to
12:48 lizmat fwiw, I see many people from other places go and come back
12:48 moritz X::JSON::RPC has a few too
12:49 donaldh joined #perl6
12:51 dalek star: a551b8f | moritz++ | modules/ (2 files):
12:51 dalek star: update modules
12:51 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/a551b8fb46
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12:58 dalek ecosystem: 6626554 | moritz++ | META.list:
12:58 dalek ecosystem: uri by colomon++ seems more maintained than the one by ihrd
12:58 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/66265540d6
12:58 * colomon doesn't even really remember having a uri fork....
12:59 moritz colomon: now if you give me commit access to the uri fork you don't remember having, I can remove the .bless(*) warnings
12:59 moritz :-)
12:59 tadzik MOAR FOARKS
13:01 hoelzro "Declaration from most-derived grammar beats less-derived" <- I take it that this deals with inheritance chains of grammars?
13:01 hoelzro or am I missing something?
13:01 colomon moritz: you've got a commitbit
13:01 moritz hoelzro: it does
13:01 hoelzro ok, cool
13:01 jnthn Is that in the context of LTM tie-breaks?
13:02 * jnthn knows we don't do all of them, but things we do do that one.
13:02 hoelzro jnthn: this is from S05, establishing the "pecking order"
13:02 hoelzro #5 is "Declaration with least number of 'uses' wins"
13:02 hoelzro and I'm not too clear on its meaning
13:03 jnthn Me either when you consider separate compilation :)
13:03 hoelzro ah, the following line...kinda clears it up.
13:03 hoelzro a little.
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13:09 dalek star: d149f5d | moritz++ | modules/uri:
13:09 dalek star: update module URI
13:09 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/d149f5deff
13:10 colomon moritz++
13:11 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 23 commits to rakudo-star-daily by coke
13:12 [Coke] .to lizmat that commit is in the range I am bisecting, yes.
13:12 yoleaux 07:34Z <lizmat> [Coke]: the method2sub branch started using .can in SLICE_MORE in Any.pm, maybe .can is borked on jakudo ?
13:12 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
13:13 PacoAir joined #perl6
13:14 [Coke] .to diakopter Congrats!
13:14 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to diakopter.
13:18 dalek rakudo/nom: f4a21d6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (4 files):
13:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Proof of concept for is DEPRECATED handling, in settings and outside of it
13:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f4a21d60cc
13:18 lizmat afk for the rest of the day&
13:18 yoleaux 13:12Z <[Coke]> lizmat: that commit is in the range I am bisecting, yes.
13:19 * [Coke] botches the bisect and starts over. arglebargle.
13:19 moritz [Coke]: I've done that a good many times too
13:19 lizmat [Coke]: please check of .can works on jakudo
13:20 lizmat method2sub branch uses that for <a b c> slices
13:20 lizmat if that doesn't work, all slices are borked
13:20 lizmat really afk now&
13:20 * jnthn notes to himself to look at that code, since .can is almost certainly not the most efficient way to write it...
13:22 corecatcher Do we have a need for mirroring stuff? my employee update his mirror hardware and has lots of space over (already mirroring cpan)
13:23 [Coke] jnthn: are you back from vacation already?
13:23 jnthn [Coke]: Yeah, was just a long weekend break :)
13:23 moritz corecatcher: interesting question
13:23 moritz pmichaud: do you think we need a mirror for rakudo.org/downloads/ ? corecatcher offers some
13:23 [Coke] jnthn: ah, welcome back.
13:24 * jnthn had his laptop fail while on vacation, which made it even more of one
13:24 tadzik win-win
13:24 lowpro30 joined #perl6
13:24 tadzik well, sort-of
13:24 jnthn An the even-more-win is that the replacement laptop is already ordered. \o/
13:25 jnthn With a nice i7 processor, SSD, and 16 gigs of RAM. That should make me more productive at confs/hackathons. :)
13:25 tadzik 530?
13:26 FROGGS jnthn: but you still have to care about performance then, because not everyone has such a nice hardware :o)
13:26 jnthn T430s
13:26 * FROGGS has an i5, SSD and only 6gig ram
13:26 FROGGS err, 8gig
13:26 jnthn Should be lighter too
13:26 tadzik heh, same on my 430
13:26 jnthn (lighter than my current one)
13:26 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
13:26 * JimmyZ has only 2gigs
13:27 tadzik it's like 2.4 kg or so
13:27 FROGGS poor JimmyZ
13:27 JimmyZ :(
13:27 tadzik I was thinking about this cdrom battery, but it's crazy expensive, at least here in PL
13:27 jnthn yeah, I didn't go for that...
13:27 FROGGS why do you guys have Lenovos? DELL is soo awesome
13:28 JimmyZ my one was old X200T
13:28 tadzik s stands for slimmer?
13:28 tadzik FROGGS: clitmouse. Case closed
13:28 jnthn Yeah :)
13:28 tadzik err, I mean nipp^Wtrackpoint
13:28 FROGGS "clit"-mouse?
13:28 tadzik I'm sorry
13:28 FROGGS what the
13:28 tadzik but look at it
13:28 jnthn wtf... :)
13:29 * jnthn hopes the keyboard is still good on thinkpads...
13:29 tadzik it is
13:29 FROGGS tadzik: you mean that red nipple? http://www.notebookcheck.com/uploads/tx_nbc2/lenoT430_3.jpg
13:29 tadzik it looks different, but works exactly the same
13:29 jnthn ah, good
13:29 tadzik well, the key placement is different
13:30 tadzik you don't have this 'block' on top, but pgup and pgdown is next to the arrow keys
13:30 tadzik I find that a lot more convenient
13:30 PacoAir joined #perl6
13:30 tadzik FROGGS: yep
13:30 FROGGS well, I hate these trackpoints anyway... and I prefer a full keyboard
13:30 JimmyZ how much is T430s?
13:31 tadzik I wonder how much slimmer s is
13:31 FROGGS tadzik: this is how it has to look like: http://www.notebookcheck.com/uploads/tx_nbc2/dellE6530_2.jpg
13:31 FROGGS :o)
13:31 tadzik seems to be 1.02" vs 1.18"
13:32 lowpro30 joined #perl6
13:32 tadzik FROGGS: the only reason to have a numpad, for me, is playing THPS games :)
13:32 FROGGS hmmm, I really tend to type numbers there
13:32 FROGGS and I dont play games
13:33 tadzik I actually got a ThinkPad USB keyboard for $work
13:33 tadzik it also has no numpad
13:33 JimmyZ T430s is about $2450 in china
13:33 FROGGS ohh wow
13:33 hoelzro " @substrings = slice @()" # umm...what's @()?
13:33 FROGGS r: say @().perl
13:33 camelia rakudo 36343b: OUTPUT«().list␤»
13:33 tadzik some say I need a small keyboard so I have enough space for all the rubbish I keep on my desk
13:34 hoelzro FROGGS: but what *is* it?
13:34 hoelzro I see it on S05
13:34 hoelzro *in
13:35 colomon r: say (@()).perl
13:35 camelia rakudo 36343b: OUTPUT«().list␤»
13:36 FROGGS I don't know what it is called but AFAIK it just calls .list on the things inside of it
13:36 hoelzro right, that much I knew =)
13:36 hoelzro but since there's nothing in between @( and )...
13:36 jnthn I think @() itself does it to $/ though
13:36 hoelzro oooooh
13:36 hoelzro ok, that makes sense
13:37 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say @().perl
13:37 camelia rakudo 36343b: OUTPUT«().list␤»
13:37 FROGGS r: $/ = 42; say $().perl
13:37 camelia rakudo 36343b: OUTPUT«No such method 'ast' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/lQymOniDLD:1␤␤»
13:37 hoelzro r: ($/) = 42; say @().perl;
13:37 camelia rakudo 36343b: OUTPUT«().list␤»
13:37 hoelzro ...
13:38 FROGGS $() is a shortcut for $/.ast, which gives you the thing you explicitly made within the last regex match
13:38 FROGGS but I don't think that @() or %() do the same, I believe $() is the only one that does that
13:39 jnthn Oh...
13:39 FROGGS (because I made it to do that)
13:39 jnthn No, S05 wants @() to be the positional matches
13:40 jnthn "Note that, as a scalar variable, $/ doesn't automatically flatten in list context. Use @() as a shorthand for @($/) to flatten the positional captures under list context."
13:40 FROGGS r: "ab" ~~ /(.)(.)/; say @().perl
13:40 camelia rakudo 36343b: OUTPUT«().list␤»
13:40 jnthn So if it don't do it today, we should make it do so
13:40 FROGGS which is LHF
13:40 jnthn aye
13:40 jnthn pick it!
13:40 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
13:41 FROGGS I will if hoelzro doesn't want to
13:41 FROGGS see ya in a minute
13:45 hoelzro what don't I want to?
13:46 hoelzro FROGGS can undoubtedly finish it faster than I =)
13:48 xenoterracide joined #perl6
13:58 FROGGS joined #perl6
14:02 FROGGS hoelzro: it is not just about speed, it is about learning too :o)
14:02 hoelzro point taken =)
14:03 hoelzro I have a few things I'm hoping to fix
14:03 jnthn .oO( me too )) )
14:03 FROGGS k, then I'll do this one
14:03 hoelzro but I'm working on improving p6 docs atm
14:03 FROGGS awesome!
14:03 jnthn \o/
14:03 hoelzro getting it to complete without crashing my machine has been fun =/
14:04 FROGGS jnthn: btw, my birthday is in a few weeks, and nqp@moarvm bootstrapping would be an appropriate gift *g*
14:04 FROGGS (but no pressure :P)
14:04 hoelzro mine too, actually =)
14:05 hoelzro you can double gift
14:05 hoelzro we don't mind ;)
14:05 FROGGS *g*
14:05 FROGGS awesome!!
14:05 jnthn Well, I've no teaching until October, so... :)
14:06 hoelzro \o/
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14:13 FROGGS \o/
14:13 hoelzro FROGGS: out of curiosity, when's your birthday?
14:14 GlitchMr joined #perl6
14:17 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
14:18 raiph joined #perl6
14:19 PerlJam hoelzro: when's yours? :)  (I'm Oct 28)
14:19 hoelzro Oct 8
14:19 PerlJam (btw, Oct 28 is also Bill Gates' birthday)
14:20 colomon Oct 6
14:20 hoelzro damn, I just have Matt Damon =/
14:20 hoelzro lots of Oct birthdays here it seems
14:21 FROGGS oct 16
14:21 timotimo i have albert einstein
14:21 JimmyZ Oct 15 :P
14:21 jnthn Wow... :)
14:21 JimmyZ but mine is lunar calendar
14:22 PerlJam We should start an October.pm so that a future Rakudo release can use it ;)
14:22 FROGGS *g*
14:28 colomon http://www.takipiblog.com/2013/09/24/how-to-write-your-own-java-scala-debugger/ # may be interesting for us?
14:29 hoelzro I saw that!
14:29 skids joined #perl6
14:29 hoelzro I was thinking about that during my weekend hacking on TIJMP
14:29 ajr joined #perl6
14:32 jnthn TIJMP?
14:32 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
14:32 jnthn ah, found it
14:32 hoelzro I used it on Perl 6 over the weekend
14:32 hoelzro I added an "Export to CSV" button
14:33 hoelzro and started on translating __P6Opaque to Perl 6 class names
14:33 hoelzro I've been thumbing through last weekend's course notes a lot =)
14:45 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
14:51 arnsholt PerlJam: That's a pretty good birthday. Mine is the 29th =)
14:54 spider-mario joined #perl6
14:54 PerlJam arnsholt: you're just reinforcing the idea of an October.pm  ;)
14:56 tadzik Fest.pm
15:00 sjn Beer.pm
15:01 sjn No need to limit consumption to one month of the year
15:01 arnsholt I think jnthn wouldn't mind a Beer.pm
15:01 [Coke] as part of August.pm, I support this trend.
15:01 * sjn certainly wouldn't
15:01 sjn arnsholt: btw, you planning on dropping by Oslo.pm next week?
15:01 jnthn Beer.pm \o/
15:03 tadzik heh, I just thought about Python.pm, a support group
15:03 sjn hehehehe
15:03 sjn Ruby.pm
15:03 tadzik we could gather, drink, cry, sob and pat each other on our backs
15:03 tadzik us, sad refugees
15:03 sjn INTERCAL.pm
15:03 [Coke] oooh. Can I be ColdFusion.pm ?
15:04 tadzik can I be Iron Man? :)
15:04 * PerlJam notes the appropriate singularity in Coke's sentence  ;)
15:05 [Coke] bite me, professor.
15:05 [Coke] . o O (the truth hoits)
15:05 FROGGS Lol.pm
15:06 FROGGS and ProjectEuler.pm perhaps?
15:07 tadzik NO LOL
15:07 tadzik NoLol.pm
15:10 FROGGS r: "abcdef" ~~ /(.(.))(.)/; say @($/) # jnthn, is that what we want?
15:10 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«「ab」␤ 0 => 「b」␤ 「c」␤␤»
15:11 jnthn FROGGS: Yes.
15:11 jnthn r: "abcdef" ~~ m:P5/(.(.))(.)/; say @($/) # vive le difference
15:11 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«「ab」␤ 「b」␤ 「c」␤␤»
15:12 FROGGS r: "abcdef" ~~ /(.(.))(.)/; say $/
15:12 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«「abc」␤ 0 => 「ab」␤  0 => 「b」␤ 1 => 「c」␤␤»
15:13 FROGGS hmmm, I think I understand
15:13 FROGGS r: "abcdef" ~~ /(.(.))(.)/; say @($/).perl
15:13 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«(Match.new(orig => "abcdef", from => 0, to => 2, ast => Any, list => (Match.new(orig => "abcdef", from => 1, to => 2, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()),).list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "abcdef", from => 2, to => 3, ast => Any,…»
15:14 jnthn Match objects nest in Perl 6
15:14 jnthn Which is why we get match trees
15:14 FROGGS yes, that is not the point
15:14 jnthn ok, what is the point? :)
15:14 FROGGS r: "abcdef" ~~ /(.(.))(.)/; say @($/) # I find the "0 => " irritating
15:14 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«「ab」␤ 0 => 「b」␤ 「c」␤␤»
15:15 spider-mario joined #perl6
15:15 jnthn That's how match objects gist
15:15 FROGGS r: "abcdef" ~~ /(.(.))(.)/; say @($/).elems
15:15 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«2␤»
15:15 FROGGS ahh
15:15 FROGGS okay
15:15 jnthn The 0 => ... comes from the inner (.) of the first match
15:16 FROGGS right
15:17 jonathanmarvens left #perl6
15:18 iSlug joined #perl6
15:20 FROGGS n: "abcdef" ~~ /(.(.))(.)/; say @()
15:20 camelia niecza v24-95-ga6d4c5f: OUTPUT«「ab」␤ 0 => 「b」␤ 「c」␤␤»
15:20 FROGGS cool
15:20 FROGGS niecza++
15:22 jnthn FROGGS: Do %() while you're at it, btw ;-)
15:22 FROGGS jnthn: sure
15:23 jnthn FROGGS++
15:24 FROGGS nr: say "abracadabra" ~~ m:overlap/ a (.*) a /
15:24 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«False␤»
15:24 camelia ..niecza v24-95-ga6d4c5f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Regex modifier overlap not yet implemented at /tmp/uYgcVluC8P line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "abracadabra" ~~ m:overlap[33mâ��[31m/ a (.*) a /[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.sett…»
15:25 jnthn r: "abracadabra" ~~ m:overlap/ a (.*) a /; say $/
15:25 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«「abra」␤ 0 => 「br」␤␤»
15:25 jnthn r: .say for "abracadabra".match(/ a (.*) a /, :overlap)
15:25 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«「abracadabra」␤ 0 => 「bracadabr」␤␤「acadabra」␤ 0 => 「cadabr」␤␤「adabra」␤ 0 => 「dabr」␤␤「abra」␤ 0 => 「br」␤␤»
15:26 FROGGS why is it falseish?
15:27 jnthn I'm not sure
15:27 jnthn m:overlap/.../ matches immediately though
15:27 lowpro30 joined #perl6
15:28 jnthn "foo" ~~ m/.../ normally works out becuase Match.ACCEPTS(...) returns self.
15:28 jnthn And because "foo" is put into $_ before the m/.../ runs
15:28 jnthn r: "abracadabra".match(/ a (.*) a /, :overlap).WHAT.say
15:28 camelia rakudo f4a21d: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
15:28 jnthn But that gives a List.
15:29 TimToady spec says that should fake up a Match object to indicate success
15:29 jnthn OK
15:30 donaldh joined #perl6
15:30 jnthn Should we find the exhaustives lazily?
15:30 jnthn 'cus at the moment Match is (for performance) designed to have a reified thingy there, I think...
15:31 silug_ joined #perl6
15:31 colomon lazy++
15:32 jnthn Though maybe we just sneak a lazy list into the first slot of that and hope normal flattening semantics take care of it... :P
15:32 rindolf joined #perl6
15:35 donaldh On the subject of optimisation on JVM, lazy creation of VMHash storage maybe gives a ~5 % performance improvement. Not got enough measurements to be conclusive tho.
15:37 jnthn That sounds worthwhile. We may also want to look at doing something special for very small hashes (which most of them probably are)
15:38 jnthn Like, up to 4 elements is just a key/value list that we search through.
15:38 donaldh Yeah, I was thinking along those lines too.
15:39 jnthn We can make it a single allocation by just doing an 8 element Object[] even.
15:39 arnsholt Probably a good idea. I read an interesting blog post once about how the core list and map classes on OS X have varying asymptotic behaviour, depending on the number of elements
15:39 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
15:39 arnsholt Since the classes use the appropriate data structure variants behind the scenes
15:40 jnthn Don't even need a count if we use null as a sentinel.
15:40 kbaker_ joined #perl6
15:42 btyler_ joined #perl6
15:43 TimToady though then you can't use null to indicate deletion
15:44 TimToady probably okay to just pull the rest down one
15:44 jnthn yeah, true
15:45 jnthn delete is comparatively rare.
15:46 TimToady that's what I thought, but neglected to say :)
15:49 perlo66 joined #perl6
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15:51 diakopter can just use some other sentinel for deleted
16:05 FROGGS either my machine has serious problems or or nqp/rakudo is in trouble
16:05 FROGGS Stage parse      : 386.691
16:05 FROGGS it usually takes 150s these days
16:06 jnthn o.O
16:06 jnthn FROGGS: Which backend, ooc?
16:06 FROGGS parrot
16:07 gtodd1 joined #perl6
16:07 FROGGS I can't imagine that this is due to my @() changes...
16:10 diakopter I can
16:16 lowpro30 joined #perl6
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16:35 jnthn FROGGS: JVM build time doesn't look out of the ordinary, fwiw. A little longer than I remember it, but only a few seconds.
16:36 geekosaur joined #perl6
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16:47 FROGGS jnthn: now both repo's are clean from any local changes, and it still takes ages...
16:48 FROGGS I'll reboot, and if this doesn't fix it I'll bisect it
16:50 FROGGS joined #perl6
17:27 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
17:31 * jnthn did did a make spectest on JVM and it got all the way through
17:32 jnthn So I ain't sure what's happening with the daily run
17:39 spider-mario joined #perl6
17:39 masak could be RAM-related?
17:42 * jnthn looks sheepish
17:43 spider-mario joined #perl6
17:46 * masak .oO( who is incorrigible when it comes to puns, jnthn? ewe are. )
17:47 ajr joined #perl6
17:47 * nwc10 wonders wether there are many sheep puns left
17:47 masak I'm pretty sure. if people do too many of them in a row, they fall asleep.
17:49 nwc10 can we count on that? :-)
17:49 jnthn What compsci course do sheep like best?
17:49 jnthn Lambda calculus
17:50 * masak .oO( do androids dream of lambda calculus? )
17:50 kurahaupo joined #perl6
17:51 FROGGS ha, @() and %() is just one extra line...
17:52 sqirrel joined #perl6
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18:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 7e2d8bc | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
18:16 dalek rakudo/nom: support @() and %() shortcuts
18:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7e2d8bc5a0
18:18 dalek roast: eee19ce | (Tobias Leich)++ | S03-operators/context.t:
18:18 dalek roast: unfudged for rakudo
18:18 dalek roast:
18:18 dalek roast: Means we can run it now unmodified.
18:18 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/eee19ce73e
18:19 FROGGS will add more tests in a bit
18:27 zwut00 joined #perl6
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18:41 * [Coke] has a rakudo night tonight for a few hours.
18:41 * [Coke] will get the (*&#@$ bisect to finish, anyway.
18:41 * [Coke] will also get back to nqp op docs.
18:42 [Coke] and maybe some more partcl-nqp
18:42 jnthn [Coke]: Bisect will be useful, as I couldn't reproduce the issue on my box.
18:42 [Coke] -> dayjob
18:42 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:43 [Coke] jnthn: ahgood. (if I were nwc10 I would have scripted this bisect!)
18:43 [Coke] "oh, it's too much work to script this oneshot"
18:44 [Coke] (someone remind of this the next time I complain of a long running manual bisect, please. ;)
18:44 [Coke] -> dayjob furrealzies.
18:47 raiph masak, diakopter, anyone else who's taken a close look at ometa (jnthn?): i'd love to see your comments on "ometa vs nqp" (ignoring any aspect that references Perl 6)...
18:47 yoleaux 9 Sep 2013 08:07Z <diakopter> raiph: http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/1lumnn/in_a_parallel_universe_what_would_have_happened/cc3swfq
18:49 masak raiph: I don't feel I know enough about ometa. but from a high level, it feels like the goals of the projects are different.
18:49 masak ometa wants to "remake computing". nqp is a compiler toolkit.
18:52 raiph masak: where's that quote from? my understanding of ometa is like "a generalisation of parsing expression grammars which allow arbitrary input and can be extended in an object-oriented way"
18:52 raiph (and that it's a metacompiler)
18:53 raiph i'm currently seeing it as similar, in principle, to a piece of what nqp is
18:53 masak I don't know where I read it.
18:53 masak seems you know more about ometa than I do :)
18:53 jnthn I suspect "a piece of" is accurate
18:53 raiph i searched the #perl6 irclogs for ometa and you were exploring it's World :)
18:53 jnthn Perl 6 grammars are PEG-y
18:54 raiph s/it's/its
18:54 jnthn But I don't think there's any 6model equivalent
18:54 raiph jnthn: right
18:54 jnthn Or code-gen part.
18:54 kst joined #perl6
18:55 jnthn One of the nice things about the NQP toolchain is how much you can build before having to dig into VM specifics.
18:56 raiph jnthn: right. nqp is the whole enchilada for a comprehensive compiler toolkit (that "just happens" to include a metacompiler bit, though that does itself have big benefits long term that will become increasingly important as the ecosystem matures over the next decade)
18:56 raiph (and that deals nicely with backend abstraction)
18:57 raiph (and, and, and ...)
18:57 jnthn I've talked about plenty of meta things but I'm not sure I've ever used the word metacompiler... :)
18:57 raiph i'm trying to place NQP in the computing world
18:58 raiph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacompiler
18:58 jnthn raiph: It's the thing that we've built to help build Rakudo in a sane, manageable way.
18:59 jnthn raiph: And seeing it as a product in its own right means that (a) with care/guidance it can become one, but (more important right now) (b) it gives us clear architectural boundaries.
18:59 * FROGGS .oO( Maybe we should create ads that say: Perl 6 - Programming for the Meta-Cloud(tm) )
18:59 FROGGS nobody knows what that means, so everybody will buy it
18:59 kst joined #perl6
19:02 timotimo but there is nothing to buy :o
19:03 arnsholt jnthn: Speaking of NQP as a product and such, how interesting are compilers for other languages ATM?
19:03 FROGGS timotimo: LIAR!
19:03 raiph ah, so that's why development of metacompilers paused for a few decades...
19:03 FROGGS timotimo: it is just like a cloud, you can't touch it, you can't see it, but you know that you need it, for years now without recognizing
19:04 raiph "TREE-META was the last of a line of metacompilers, starting with META II, right before subsequent versions were designated classified technology by the U.S. military and government agencies."
19:04 timotimo %)
19:04 raiph "NQP -- try it before the US gov bans it"
19:05 jnthn "a metacompiler is written in its own language and translates itself"...yeah, that's NQP :)
19:05 FROGGS somebody should add a link :o)
19:05 jnthn And of course, it notes cross-compiling (which is how we reach new platforms) and bootstrapping (what we do once we get there) :)
19:06 jnthn masak will probably like the sourdough comparison
19:06 masak FROGGS: well volunteered! :)
19:06 raiph :)
19:06 masak jnthn: I do like it.
19:06 FROGGS so nqp proves that the 60's and 70's are back? :P
19:06 sqirrel joined #perl6
19:06 FROGGS masak: :P
19:06 * FROGGS goes back to do webstuff
19:07 masak FROGGS: no, we won't have another 60's and 70's in ~47 years.
19:07 FROGGS awww
19:07 raiph .oO ( we won't in another 23 years either... )
19:09 kaare_ joined #perl6
19:11 btyler joined #perl6
19:14 masak pmurias: aww, you didn't fix the s/so to/to/ typo in your report :/
19:15 FROGGS and the "(url and url)"
19:15 masak pmurias: what's the use of sending it out for proof-reading if you don't act on the fixes? :)
19:19 pmurias joined #perl6
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19:21 FROGGS beetlejuice beetlejuice beetlejuice
19:23 FROGGS Dancer is soo cool!
19:24 iSlug joined #perl6
19:29 pmurias masak: sorry :( I copy pasted the pastebin instead of the fixed copy in my vim :(
19:30 masak pro tip: don't do that :P
19:31 araujo joined #perl6
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19:38 sjohnson does Perl 6 support ENUM's?  I seem to remember it supporting that or something like that
19:38 PerlJam sjohnson: yes
19:38 sjohnson kewl.
19:38 lue hello world o/
19:39 PerlJam sjohnson: See S12:1785
19:39 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#line_1785
19:39 diakopter joined #perl6
19:39 jnthn r: enum SupportsEnums <No HellYeah>; say HellYeah
19:39 camelia rakudo 7e2d8b: OUTPUT«HellYeah␤»
19:39 jnthn r: enum SupportsEnums <No HellYeah>; say +HellYeah
19:39 camelia rakudo 7e2d8b: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:40 sjohnson i've been using constants with integers in perl5 to sort of get around it
19:42 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
19:43 FROGGS sjohnson: which are just subroutines under the hood, right?
19:43 sjohnson integers
19:43 donaldh joined #perl6
19:43 sjohnson FROGGS: use constant MODE_SOMETHING => $i++;  use constant MODE_OTHER => $i++;
19:43 sjohnson etc
19:43 FROGGS yeah, and MODE_SOMETHING is a sub
19:44 FROGGS p5eval: 1
19:44 sjohnson FROGGS: so i can do:  $mode == MODE_BLAH instead of:  $mode == 'blah' with strings;
19:44 p5eval FROGGS: 1
19:44 FROGGS p5eval: use constant MODE_SOMETHING => 42; print MODE_SOMETHING()
19:44 p5eval FROGGS: 421
19:44 FROGGS p5eval: use constant MODE_SOMETHING => 42; print ref &MODE_SOMETHING
19:44 p5eval FROGGS: 1
19:45 moritz p5eval: use constant MODE_SOMETHING => 42; ref \&MODE_SOMETHING
19:45 p5eval moritz: CODE
19:45 FROGGS moritz++ :o)
19:45 * moritz still uses p5 a lot
19:46 sjohnson if constants are code blocks under the hood, then so be it.  :3
19:46 FROGGS moritz: me too, but not the scary parts *g*
19:46 FROGGS (joke)
19:46 FROGGS sjohnson: that is how Perl 5 is, it is hard to invent new stuff
19:47 FROGGS (and not needed for all cases of course)
19:48 moritz fwiw in p5 constants are single-statement subroutines with empty prototypes, and p5 constant-folds them :-)
19:49 sjohnson so long as it works, I can go home happy as a clam :)
19:49 moritz sure it works
19:50 moritz but it has implications you might care to know about
19:50 FROGGS sjohnson: dont get me wrong, I love Perl 5 even when I sometimes rant about its warts
19:50 moritz for example you can write $hash{ MYCONSTANT() } = $value
19:50 moritz to disambiguate between constant and literal, auto-quoted strings
19:50 sjohnson i have a few complaints of my own.
19:50 moritz and it means you can access them as methods
19:51 moritz YourPackage->MYCONSTANT
19:51 sjohnson readpipe bug, as well as given/when being pretty easy to shoot oneself in their foot due to some scoping that's hard to remember.
19:52 * sjohnson squishes the readpipe bug
19:52 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
19:52 sjohnson moritz: i didn't know that.
19:52 sjohnson moritz.smart
19:54 sjohnson hmm, one more thing is the & in p5 i don't really like...
19:54 sjohnson i just explicitly call my own subs with & now.
19:54 sjohnson i move some function else where, and stuff starts breaking without it.
19:54 sjohnson my $animal = &getAnimal();
19:55 moritz what? stuff starts breaking when you remove the & ?
19:55 moritz I have trouble believing that.
19:56 masak that sounds odd, yes.
19:56 masak unless you leave out the parens :)
19:56 sjohnson hmm, it's the parens then
19:56 sjohnson that's the one!
19:56 sjohnson thanks mask.
19:56 sjohnson masak*
19:57 moritz use parens, or pre-declare
19:57 sjohnson ahh, parens...
19:57 moritz the & is quite ugly, and does funny things with @_ if you remove the parens
19:57 sjohnson masak++ # brains
19:57 masak sjohnson: the parens are the "call" part, you know.
19:58 masak sjohnson: without it, '&getAnimal' is just talking about the sub itself.
19:58 masak sjohnson: with it, you're going "good, now take that sub, and call it"
19:58 moritz masak: in Perl 6, yes
19:58 sjohnson indeed.
19:58 masak moritz: oh, we're not in Perl 6 here?
19:58 sjohnson haha
19:58 masak I'm momentarily confused. which language are we programming? :)
19:58 moritz masak: no. In Perl 6 you don't even need the parens for post-declared subs
19:59 moritz we had a brief 5y digression
19:59 masak the perils of jumping in sideways into a discussion... :)
19:59 masak sorry, for confusingly assuming p6 ;)
19:59 moritz :-)
19:59 moritz masak: and yet your remark about the () being important, not the &, was spot-on
20:00 sjohnson well, i've learned a lot.  thanks guys.  (moritz FROGGS masak)++
20:00 FROGGS pleasure :o)
20:01 masak moritz: apparently I helped \o/
20:02 * masak .oO( rent masak at an affordable hourly rate. he helps even when he doesn't know what language the problem is in! )
20:03 FROGGS masak: I'll all you when we have some PHP issues at $work :P
20:03 * moritz wonders if there is a demand for Perl mentors
20:03 FROGGS call*
20:03 FROGGS damn, I really need a new keyboard
20:04 sjohnson i have my fire share of global $PHP_ISSUE's
20:06 masak FROGGS: I won't know it's PHP, but I'll wonder why I suddenly have a headache and a sudden depression :)
20:07 * FROGGS .oO( There is something entirely wrong... Ohh... ?> )
20:08 djanatyn joined #perl6
20:08 masak the '?>' smiley is there to conveys existential terror.
20:08 masak convey*
20:08 geekosaur by the pricking of my thumb...
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20:10 masak geekosaur: someone's wiki this way comes? :P
20:10 diakopter joined #perl6
20:10 masak dang, shoulda made it "MediaWiki this way comes"...
20:16 donaldh There's 8 file-ops tests failing in nqp on jvm. Does anyone know how far back I might need to bisect it ?
20:19 masak donaldh: not sure. but da7b7b1f67685f920e50c4e5f14fcf603fe60b18 looks like a candidate for the culprit.
20:19 masak (or rather the things it merges in)
20:21 donaldh Hmm. That fixed a bunch of tests iirc
20:28 FROGGS donaldh: if the last test of t/nqp/19 fail, that it might be due to the added nqp::readlinefh tests
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20:45 * lue idly wonders when we can expect to see t4 results...
20:51 donaldh FROGGS: I think you're right, these tests may never have passed on jvm.
20:57 masak lue: I can guarantee you won't see any before 2013-10-02 :/
20:57 masak ($dayjob sucking up all available time again)
20:57 lue as long as it's within two months, you'll beat the previous time :)
20:58 * masak nods, sobbing
20:58 masak hopefully I'll be done before tadzik announces p6cc 2013, at least :)
20:59 lue oh, he's running it this year?
21:00 masak it's not a complete certainty. but I'm pretty sure I'm *not* running it.
21:00 tadzik I was supposed to run one during summer too :P
21:00 tadzik but yes, there will be p6cc 2013
21:00 masak I'm willing to play a fairly big part in the background if someone else leads it.
21:00 masak and tadzik++ stepped forward last time we talked about this :)
21:01 * lue &
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21:20 masak 'night, #perl6
21:20 FROGGS gnight
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21:54 dalek nqp/lazy-vmhash: f7c396a | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/VMHash (2 files):
21:54 dalek nqp/lazy-vmhash: Lazy allocation of HashMap for  VMHash storage on JVM.
21:54 dalek nqp/lazy-vmhash: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f7c396af6b
21:56 dalek nqp: f7c396a | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/VMHash (2 files):
21:56 dalek nqp: Lazy allocation of HashMap for  VMHash storage on JVM.
21:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f7c396af6b
21:56 dalek nqp: ec8898f | donaldh++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/VMHash (2 files):
21:56 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #134 from perl6/lazy-vmhash
21:56 dalek nqp:
21:56 dalek nqp: Lazy allocation of HashMap for  VMHash storage on JVM.
21:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ec8898f3e8
22:00 jnthn That was a nice short diff. :)
22:04 timotimo does that give a big reduction in memory usage?
22:04 jnthn mits
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22:13 donaldh timotimo: it gives a reduction. I haven't reliably measured how much. Need a robust way of forcing GC and then running jmap -histo at specific times.
22:13 donaldh s/times/points/
22:13 timotimo the perl token in the power plug now also has a "via 9gag.com" branded version of itself on the internets
22:23 corecatcher \o/
22:24 skids joined #perl6
22:27 geekosaur now someone has to photoshop that imnto 6gag
22:38 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
22:43 * jnthn has All The Tomorrow to do Perl 6 things o/
22:44 * corecatcher needs more time
22:44 jnthn whoa
22:44 * jnthn just avoids having an IPA explode over this keyboard
22:45 corecatcher you what?!
22:45 jnthn I opened the can and it was more alive than expected...
22:45 timotimo jnthn: a can full of International Phonetic Alphabet keyboard stickers?
22:46 corecatcher you mean really "alive"?
22:46 timotimo corecatcher: the next karlsruhe.pm meeting is the evening before my exam :|
22:46 corecatcher timotimo: its okay, we just going to make 4hrs instead of 8
22:46 corecatcher :>
22:46 jnthn .oO( "What's a linguist's favorite kind of beer?" :D )
22:46 timotimo and no beer
22:47 corecatcher ppl who dont rely on alc are very welcome
22:47 timotimo i don't rely on alc to get my work done ;)
22:47 * jnthn doesn't rely on it
22:47 corecatcher jnthn: A good St(r)out? :)
22:47 timotimo it rarely does anything good for me
22:49 corecatcher agreed, programming under beer makes me open up steam and play for hrs ;)
22:49 timotimo let's be friends on steam
22:50 timotimo see query on other 'net
22:51 timotimo jnthn: what's your reaction to my findings that turning lexicals into locals has apparently zero effect on performance?
22:52 jnthn timotimo: On which backend? Though, I'm a little surprised it had no effect...
22:52 timotimo jvm and parrot
22:53 timotimo (i made sure that the vars would actually get changed in the microbenchmarks i ran, there was no noticable change at all)
22:53 jnthn I'd have expected at least some win on both...
22:53 kay_ joined #perl6
22:53 jnthn You checked the QAST post-optimize to make sure they'd really been lowered too?
22:53 timotimo http://t.h8.lv/p6bench/lexlocal.html
22:53 timotimo yes, that's what i checked
22:53 timotimo 7d... is the one with the change
22:54 timotimo (and don't ask me why half of the benchmarks have been skipped, i ought to look into that tomorrow or something)
22:56 * timotimo disappears into the night
23:04 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
23:10 jnthn 'night, #perl6
23:10 corecatcher nn
23:19 jonathanmarvens joined #perl6
23:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: f3b271d | coke++ | / (3 files):
23:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
23:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/f3b271dcab
23:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3beff1a | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
23:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: fix yesterday's date (run took too long)
23:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/3beff1a1c6
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