Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-10-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:31 xenoterracide joined #perl6
00:41 RangerMauve joined #perl6
00:47 RangerMauve Hey, what do sockets inherit from? I see here in an example that I can read from a socket using $mysocket.recv.
00:47 RangerMauve Also, is there a way to onlt read from a socket if it has data buffered?
00:49 diakopter RangerMauve: sounds like a Perl 5 question... (this is the Perl 6 channel)
00:50 diakopter (I'd help you with your question if I knew the answer, however)
00:50 RangerMauve diakopter: Would there be a difference?
00:50 diakopter the languages are extremely different; very few similarities in fact
00:50 RangerMauve I'm making my program with Perl6 so I'd probably need to know the Perl6 way of doing things.
00:50 diakopter oh?
00:50 diakopter which Perl 6 implementation..
00:51 RangerMauve Rakudo, I think it was called
00:51 diakopter do you know how recent/new it is?
00:51 diakopter perl6 --version
00:52 RangerMauve Lemme see
00:52 diakopter hm, I don't see sockets on http://doc.perl6.org/
00:52 RangerMauve version 2012.10 built on parrot 4.6.0 revision 0
00:52 diakopter oh, it's very old
00:52 RangerMauve diakopter: This is what I was looking at:
00:53 RangerMauve http://perldoc.perl.org/IO/Socket.html
00:53 diakopter that's the documentation for Perl 5; it's not applicable to Rakudo
00:53 RangerMauve An echo server I made seemed to work. But I guess that was just a coincidence
00:54 diakopter I think in that (year-old) version of Rakudo the APIs were similar
00:54 RangerMauve HMM
00:54 diakopter (yours is Oct 2012)
00:54 RangerMauve Yeah, I'm using windoze and just used an MSI that I found
00:55 diakopter there's a more recent .msi here http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/
00:56 RangerMauve Cool, I'll try that out then
00:58 diakopter I can't promise it'll work better or even identically
00:58 diakopter however, we'll be much more likely to reproduce crashes/bugs you encounter
00:59 RangerMauve Well, I guess I'll just have to figure out how it'd work. Thanks for the help by the way.
00:59 RangerMauve So how would I go about networking with Perl6, then?
01:01 diakopter rj: say Socket
01:01 camelia rakudo-jvm e22ac2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/C6D_Lr7tIHâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Socket used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
01:01 diakopter rj: say IO
01:01 camelia rakudo-jvm e22ac2: OUTPUT«(IO)␤»
01:01 diakopter rp: say IO
01:02 diakopter r: say IO
01:02 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«(IO)␤»
01:02 diakopter RangerMauve: I don't know what the current state of sockets is
01:02 RangerMauve Heh, fair enough
01:03 diakopter you might go poling through here http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/
01:03 diakopter er, plking
01:03 diakopter er, poking
01:03 RangerMauve The echo server I had set up works just fine
01:04 diakopter RangerMauve: colomon pointed me to the source here; it could be helpful: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo​/blob/nom/src/core/IO/Socket.pm
01:04 RangerMauve diakopter: THis is what I was using. http://pastebin.com/F03xfs6Y
01:05 colomon RangerMauve: I'm trying to figure out who has been working on that code.
01:06 diakopter .oO( the blind leading the blind, by pointing.. )
01:06 diakopter <- blind
01:06 RangerMauve Heh
01:08 colomon looks like jnthn, FROGGS, donaldh, moritz have been the ones hacking IO::Socket.pm
01:08 diakopter lizmat too
01:08 diakopter in IO anyway
01:08 diakopter also labster
01:08 colomon most of those are European, hence probably asleep now.
01:09 RangerMauve Well I guess I can just lurk. I'm a night dweller so it might be morning for them soon enough. :D
01:13 RangerMauve So how is perl in terms of asynchronous stuff? Is multithreading a thing?
01:16 diakopter perl 5 can do threads, but not the direct-memory-sharing kind, if it was compiled with that configured. Only rakudo with the JVM backend can effectively use threads in Perl 6 right now
01:17 RangerMauve Hmm
01:17 RangerMauve I guess I could set up my own event loop.
01:17 diakopter there are plenty of nifty things for Perl 5 that help with that
01:18 diakopter but as far as firing async operations such that you can return to your event loop, only rakudo-jvm can do that well right now
01:18 diakopter (it has its own worker threadpool with event loops, ish)
01:19 RangerMauve Hmm, I've been using Javascript with Node.js a lot lately so I've gotten myself stuck in a Node.js mindset. :P
01:19 lee_ in that case you may like AnyEvent on perl 5
01:19 diakopter if you don't want to use the JVM backend of Rakudo, I'd recommend exploring the myriad possiblities with Perl 5 right now
01:20 diakopter yes, look into AnyEvent
01:20 RangerMauve I guess I could do that, then.
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01:30 jnap RangerMauve: not sure what you want to do with evented code, but in the last stable release of Catalyst webframework we added provisional support for eventloops (anyevent and others).  If you are trying to learn it, I'd be happy to do my best if I can get some help with more code examples, shake it out a bit, etc
01:32 RangerMauve jnap: My project for learning perl6 is going to be making some sort of multiplayer game, and I was planning on using newline delimited JSON to send data between clients and the server.
01:33 RangerMauve So, so far I'm thinking I'll have a game update loop that looks like: read JSON messages from sockets, update game state, send messages to clients about new game state.
01:36 jnap Sounds like fun, I'm into game myself.  If you decide to try this on the Perl5 side I would say Mojolicious probably has the most baked support for doing websockets and so forth, for this kind of app, if you plan on server to browser client.  But if you want to get involved, as I said I'd love for someone to beat on the support for this in Catalyst, see if we can improve it!
01:36 jnap I also hang out on irc.perl.org#catalyst
01:37 jnap not that I want to take you from P6, I too am excited to see async coming to Perl in a baked in manner.
01:37 RangerMauve Oh, this wouldn't be web based. The game is going to be command-line based. :D
01:37 jnap is onew reason I started to lurk here :)
01:37 jnap oh, interesting
01:37 RangerMauve I'll check it out though
01:38 jnap anyevent, io-async and POE are the more popular event loop thingies
01:38 jnap I would say, on the P5 side
01:40 RangerMauve I'll take a look at those, too
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02:43 labster oh, hi all.  No, I'm not working on IO::Socket, even if I should be.
02:45 labster colomon: can you tell me what is causing File::Find::Duplicates to fail tests?  I started working on getting rid of the bitrot yesterday.
02:45 colomon labster: I don't know?  ARe you not seeing failures locally?
02:46 colomon Looking at the smoker report… looks like it wasn't finding File::Tools until today?
02:46 labster no failures, just warnings.
02:47 Mouq joined #perl6
02:47 labster Yeah, that was the main thing, because File::Tools got split.
02:48 colomon I'm trying it now.
02:48 retupmoca awww, moarvm doesn't support 'make DESTDIR="/my/path/here/" install' :(
02:49 colomon t/00-basic.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 7 Failed: 6)
02:49 colomon Failed tests:  1-4, 6-7
02:49 colomon labster: ^^
02:51 colomon labster: hmmm
02:51 colomon not ok 1 - Basic functionality
02:51 colomon #      got: 't/test-files/foobar.txt t/test-files/foobar-2.txt t/test-files/empty2 t/test-files/empty1'
02:51 colomon # expected: 't/test-files/foobar-2.txt t/test-files/foobar.txt t/test-files/empty1 t/test-files/empty2'
02:51 colomon ordering issues?
02:52 labster maybe
02:56 colomon that's totally it
02:56 colomon you generate @duplicates starting with a hash
02:57 * labster thinks about how to sort an array in an array
02:58 retupmoca oh - nqp-jvm doesn't support DESTDIR correctly either
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03:53 dalek nqp: 4904f02 | dwarring++ | examples/rubyish/ (4 files):
03:53 dalek nqp: added loose 'or', 'and'. line continuation on method signatures and calls
03:53 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4904f027de
03:53 dalek nqp: 150e52a | dwarring++ | examples/rubyish/README.md:
03:53 dalek nqp: README updates
03:53 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/150e52aa48
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04:41 lue r: say lcm(2,3,4,5); # I feel like this should be a thing.
04:41 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/uZtnDt91ahâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    lcm used at line 1. Did you mean '&lc'?â�¤â�¤Â»
04:46 moritz lue: [lcm] exists
04:47 lue derp. :)
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05:44 moritz lue: it's a common fallacy to get so attached to language features that you want to solve everything with language features, instead of actually programming :-)
05:45 moritz s/fallacy/pitfall/
05:50 TimToady well, one can fall off that wall on the reductionist side as well, and many have... :)
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06:35 Mouq S17: "TODO: how you can access thread attributes inside a thread
06:36 Mouq "async {say "my tid is ", +self;}"
06:36 Mouq Just as a suggestion, would &?BLOCK be a bad place to potentially put this information?
06:37 Mouq Although maybe it should be &*BLOCK or something since the tid really isn't going to be determined at compile time :p
06:39 JimmyZ &*TID
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06:41 Mouq &*THREAD
06:42 Mouq Or maybe we could have named asyncs :p
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07:03 Mouq n: my @a = ([^10],[^10 >>+>> 10]); @a[||(0;2),||(1;3)].say
07:03 camelia niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Slicels NYI␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1536 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3554 (prefix:<||> @ 4) ␤  at /tmp/DLDXWyovrl line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE…»
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08:07 hoelzro доброе утро, #perl6!
08:23 timotimo γuτεν μοργεν, #περλ6
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08:51 jnthn Mouq: S17 needs some work to try and bring it in line with current reality. I'd not trust it too much... :)
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09:07 dalek Perlito: bd84de4 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
09:07 dalek Perlito: Perlito - perl6 - tree grammar modules
09:07 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/bd84de4f05
09:08 dayangkun_ joined #perl6
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09:21 dalek Perlito: b60f756 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
09:21 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - apply subroutine refactoring
09:21 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/b60f756e2a
09:29 dalek Perlito: 66a0327 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
09:29 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - __PACKAGE__
09:29 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/66a0327525
09:29 fglock joined #perl6
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09:32 fglock p56: sub mysub { my $x = shift; my $y = shift; $x + $y }
09:32 camelia p5-to-p6 : OUTPUT«sub main::mysub {␤    my $x = shift(@_);␤    my $y = shift(@_);␤    $x + $y␤}␤»
09:32 fglock not updated yet
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09:35 dalek Perlito: c3c420e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
09:35 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - sub cleanup
09:35 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/c3c420e162
09:36 fglock p56: sub mysub { my $x = shift; my $y = shift; $x + $y }
09:36 camelia p5-to-p6 : OUTPUT«sub main::mysub ($x?, $y?, *@_) {␤    $x + $y␤}␤»
09:36 fglock yay
09:37 FROGGS_ cool
09:38 JimmyZ hot
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09:42 moritz fglock++
09:42 fglock the refactoring is implemented here: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/blob/mas​ter/src5/lib/Perlito5/Perl6/TreeGrammar.pm
09:43 moritz p56: sub mysub { my ($x, $y, @rest) = @_; }
09:43 camelia p5-to-p6 : OUTPUT«sub main::mysub {␤    my($x, $y, @rest) = @_␤}␤»
09:44 fglock that one is more complicated, because it needs to scan the sub for other uses of @_
09:44 moritz yes, thought so
09:44 fglock I'll try to do it later
09:45 jnthn p56: package Foo { sub bar { my $x = shift; $x } }
09:45 camelia p5-to-p6 : OUTPUT«{␤    class Foo;␤    sub Foo::bar ($x?, *@_) {␤        $x␤    }␤}␤»
09:46 jnthn Instead of main::bar or Foo::bar, it may be cleaner to just emit "our sub bar ..."
09:46 fglock yes, that was the last commit - not live yet
09:46 jnthn ah, cool
09:47 fglock does it need 'our'?
09:47 jnthn fglock++
09:47 moritz fglock: yes
09:47 moritz subs are lexical by default in p6
09:47 fglock ok - adding
09:47 jnthn Yeah, if it's gonna be an accurate translation it wants it, I think
09:47 FROGGS_ why don't you just have an *@_ signature? always?
09:47 jnthn However, lexical subs from Perl 5 can have their "my" stripped as it's the default :)
09:47 * moritz git pulls on p6eval@host07:~/Perlito
09:48 jnthn r: sub foo { say @_ }; foo(1,2)
09:48 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
09:48 jnthn FROGGS_: Mentioning @_ in a signatureless sub implies a *@_
09:49 FROGGS_ hmmm, interesting
09:49 FROGGS_ jnthn: I thought I made that explicitly for v5
09:51 dalek Perlito: a2918cb | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
09:51 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - our sub
09:51 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/a2918cbf48
09:51 jnthn FROGGS_: For v5 I guess you need it whether or not the @_ is mentioned, though?
09:51 JimmyZ r: sub foo { say shift @_ }; foo(1,2)
09:51 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«1␤»
09:52 jnthn r: sub foo { }; foo 1
09:52 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'foo' will never work with argument types (int) (lines 1, 1)␤    Expected: :()␤»
09:52 jnthn perl: sub foo { }; foo 1
09:52 jnthn perl5: sub foo { }; foo 1
09:52 jnthn oh, I thought we had an evalbot for Perl 5...
09:52 jnthn p5eval: sub foo { }; foo 1
09:52 p5eval jnthn: No output
09:52 jnthn Anyway, that's not an error in Perl 5.
09:53 jnthn But it is in 6
09:53 fglock maybe I should add *@_ always
09:53 jnthn So you'd need to compile different in v5 :)
09:53 jnthn fglock: You could, maybe
09:54 jnthn fglock: I guess it gives people a signature to edit... :)
09:54 jnthn And it's more accurate in the "sub that doesn't mention @_" case, which I guess is unusual (in so far as a sub that just throws away any arguments it gets is an oddity)
09:56 fglock it is common to have methods that get $_[0] but don't use it
09:57 dalek Perlito: 68a48a3 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
09:57 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - sub has *@_ signature by default
09:57 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/68a48a3a78
09:58 FROGGS_ jnthn: ahh, now I got it, yes
09:59 FROGGS_ jnthn: since "shift" implies using @_, I have to always install *@_
09:59 jnthn fglock: Probably too common ;-) But yeah, agree.
09:59 jnthn FROGGS_: oh yeah, I forgot implicit :)
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10:08 atroxaper Hello #perl6 !
10:10 atroxaper Is it going to release jvm-R* this month?
10:12 moritz probably not, still too much missing (for example NativeCall)
10:14 atroxaper Ok. Thank you moritz for answer. And for you work!)
10:15 moritz you're welcome.
10:16 dalek Perlito: 890d83b | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
10:16 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - my sub
10:16 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/890d83b462
10:17 jnthn Yeah, we haven't get NativeCall so far along as we probably want for an R* release. Did get the debugger mostly fixed up for JVM, at least...plus some other spectest fixes.
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10:19 atroxaper jnthn, cool!
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10:25 jnthn Today's "I'm glad I proofread this" moment: "...pooping from a stack"
10:26 daxim insert freud trollface here
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11:09 dalek Perlito: a3b2e64 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
11:09 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js - exists with array index
11:09 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/a3b2e64ea0
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12:07 dalek Perlito: 9863afb | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
12:07 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - sub refactoring - check args fix
12:07 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/9863afb961
12:15 dalek Perlito: 8dbed68 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
12:15 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - TODO list
12:15 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/8dbed6826c
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12:28 mathw jnthn: haha. Great one to leave on a slide at an important conference, that...
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12:37 FROGGS r: my $num = 123.456789; say $num.round(1e-5)
12:37 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«123.45679␤»
12:37 FROGGS j: my $num = 123.456789; say $num.round(1e-5)
12:37 camelia rakudo-jvm e22ac2: OUTPUT«123.45679000000001␤»
12:37 FROGGS k, still existent
12:38 FROGGS j: my $num = 123.456789; say $num.round(1e-4)
12:38 camelia rakudo-jvm e22ac2: OUTPUT«123.4568␤»
12:46 dalek Perlito: 2120983 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
12:46 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - TODO list; special variables fix
12:46 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/2120983e21
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14:04 japhb__ How relocatable are rakudo-parrot and rakudo-jvm once I have done 'make install'?
14:05 japhb__ I want to do builds in a separate dir from final location, and then only after I've got all the panda modules installed and so on, swizzle a symlink to the ready-to-go tree.
14:06 japhb__ But I'm curious how well that works (or doesn't).
14:06 jnthn Is that not just having two side-by-side installs?
14:06 jnthn --prefix=rakudo/install/parrot vs --prefix=rakudo/install/jvm ?
14:07 jnthn You can't just copy the binaries to a new location, though...they end up with paths embedded.
14:07 diakopter well if you know where it will be relocated to... just mimic the dir structure
14:08 jnthn The JVM one is closer to relocatable in so far as you can hack the perl6.sh, but I think it still embeds some paths somewhere
14:08 moritz rakudo on parrot's relocatibility is 0.
14:10 FROGGS +0 or -0 ?
14:10 moritz yes
14:11 jnthn What a point to float :P
14:11 japhb__ jnthn: well, I don't want there to be a long window of time where everything is half-built; I want to still be able to go about my daily routine (using Perl 6 programs normally) while the new version builds, installs modules, and so on.  So prefix alone won't do it, I think.
14:12 FROGGS one problem that possibly never vanishes is that %*CUSTOM_LIB has the paths when (pre)compiling a module, same for %*ENV and others...
14:12 japhb__ >.<
14:13 FROGGS unless it would serialize relative paths
14:14 jnthn japhb__: Have it do it while you sleep? ;-)
14:14 japhb__ FROGGS: relative paths would definitely help, yes.
14:14 jnthn japhb__: Or, do it in a VM and rsync the output :)
14:14 jnthn (to the same paths)
14:14 jnthn :)
14:14 japhb__ Oh hmmm, that's an interesting idea.
14:14 japhb__ Kindof a heavy hammer.
14:14 jnthn Yeah
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14:15 tadzik japhb__: what's your use-case?
14:15 tadzik did you consider building a new version of rakudo in rakudobrew and then switching it?
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14:16 japhb__ tadzik: I have two: one I mentioned above, and one of wanting to share a common build that I curate with other people who don't want to think about building Rakudo and panda and all the right modules -- they just want to use my scripts.
14:17 tadzik ah
14:17 tadzik well, rakudobrew covers the first one
14:18 diakopter japhb__: why can't you fake up the dirs beforehand like I said
14:19 jnthn japhb__: You could also always just build the new on in rakudo-parrot-abc123
14:19 japhb__ heading for bus &  # But will respond to above when I get there.
14:19 jnthn japhb__: And then delete the previous one after twizzling the symlink
14:20 diakopter japhb__: okay, here's a better alternative
14:20 diakopter fake up the directories in a place *where* you know you will have control/access to
14:20 diakopter install to there
14:20 diakopter tar up and copy to destination
14:20 diakopter then symlink them from their ultimate destination
14:20 tadzik or run sed -i on all binaries and replace the paths inside. What can go wrong :)
14:20 kurahaupo joined #perl6
14:21 tadzik I used to do that with chrome
14:22 kurahaupo_ joined #perl6
14:22 diakopter <.>
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14:26 jnthn oh wow, I might just have done my slides and will actually get some Perl 6 tuits today... :)
14:33 colomon jnthn++
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14:33 japhb__ bak  # Ah, that sad day when the morning sunshine no longer quite makes it to the bus stop ...
14:37 japhb__ A variant of jnthn's idea was my first one ... build in .../rakudo-`git describe`/ and do all my panda installs into that, and then when I'm done update .../rakudo-parrot/ and .../rakudo-jvm/ symlinks.
14:37 jnthn japhb__: Morning sunshine? I live in Scandinavia... :P
14:38 japhb__ jnthn: You still get it.  Only for less of the year, probably.  :-)
14:38 jnthn Yeah, and I'm not actually far enough north for it to be too extreme. :)
14:38 japhb__ Well, assuming your stop isn't on the north side of a hill.
14:38 jnthn Getting to the bit of the year where I'll most likely walk to teaching work in darkness and leave it in darkness, however...
14:39 japhb__ bleah.  That time will come soon enough for me, too.
14:39 jnthn The worst bit is when you then have the immense misfortune to get put in a classroom with no windows...
14:40 jnthn Thankfully, there are few of those.
14:42 japhb__ Yeah, no non-artificial light all day can be a serious bummer.
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15:13 dalek Perlito: 3ce38e5 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
15:13 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - while; <>
15:13 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/3ce38e59d4
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15:31 diakopter japhb__: well, Reveal bulbs are pretty close!
15:31 diakopter I like 'em anyway
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15:49 pmichaud Reveal++
15:56 jnap joined #perl6
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16:06 japhb__ Yeah, Reveal does help a lot.  Still not the same as the big light bulb in that big blue room.
16:10 pmichaud today the big blue room is pretty gray though.  and someone left the sprinklers on.
16:13 japhb__ .oO( Stop playing frisbee in the big blue room!  You're going to hit the sprinklers again! )
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16:58 hexcoder r: " #`{ comment }"
16:58 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤no ICU lib loaded␤»
16:59 hexcoder n: " #`{ comment }"
16:59 camelia niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤     'comment' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.com…»
16:59 hexcoder std: " #`{ comment }"
17:00 camelia std a0bcfb1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Undeclared routine:� 'comment' used at line 1�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 121m�»
17:00 TimToady weird
17:02 TimToady doesn't do that with my local STD
17:02 hexcoder its from the comments.t test file from rakudo star
17:03 TimToady oh, wait, double quotes
17:03 jnthn j: " #`{ comment }"
17:03 camelia rakudo-jvm e22ac2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/1S3gaMvZsaâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    comment used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
17:03 ajr joined #perl6
17:03 hexcoder but there its commented out, not even marked as todo
17:03 TimToady there aren't comments inside double quotes
17:03 jnthn Aye, the error is right
17:03 jnthn rj gets it right, it seems
17:03 jnthn No clue what rp is doing there
17:03 hexcoder ok, thanks.
17:04 TimToady jnthn: maybe it thinks ` is outside of ASCII :)
17:04 TimToady .u
17:04 yoleaux Search for a Unicode character by codepoint, name, or raw character
17:05 hexcoder this is from the comments.t file:     # TODO:     # ok eval(" #`{ comment }") fails with an error as it tries to execute     # comment() before seeing that I meant #`{ comment within this string.
17:06 jnthn Bogus test, at a guess...
17:06 jnthn oh...
17:06 jnthn Probably OK test but wants single quotes there
17:06 * [Coke] appreciates the shout out to his company's industrial side earlier in the day. :)
17:06 jnthn Not double
17:06 hexcoder i will try
17:07 hexcoder ack, thats it
17:09 kurahaupo joined #perl6
17:13 [Coke] rp failed again today.
17:13 [Coke] (daily spec run)
17:14 hexcoder :r " #`\{ comment \}"
17:14 TimToady you coded the hex wrong :)
17:15 hexcoder oops.
17:15 hexcoder r: " #`\{ comment \}"
17:15 camelia rakudo e22ac2: ( no output )
17:15 hexcoder better
17:19 grondilu r: say #`\{ comment \} "Hello"
17:19 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«␤»
17:19 grondilu r: say #`\{ comment } "Hello"
17:19 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«␤»
17:19 grondilu r: say #`{ comment } "Hello"
17:19 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
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17:21 hexcoder r: say "Hello#`\{which means hello in plain english\}"
17:21 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«Hello#`{which means hello in plain english}␤»
17:22 grondilu does not work in a string litteral
17:22 hexcoder hmm, that is no real comment
17:22 hexcoder ok, by design?
17:22 grondilu r: say "Hello{#`{which means hello in plain english}}"
17:22 camelia rakudo e22ac2: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
17:22 kurahaupo_ joined #perl6
17:23 hexcoder ah, ++
17:23 grondilu also, notice that you don't need the backslashes
17:24 hexcoder yep
17:24 grondilu backslashes are for unspaces, which are an other story.
17:24 hexcoder yes, I see
17:36 hexcoder sometimes I get 'SORRY ... no ICU lib loaded' as the only output. Does that mean, parsing has succeeded? Is this a compile time error, or a run time error?
17:37 hexcoder I know this is a unicode lib...
17:37 grondilu you run rakudo star?
17:37 hexcoder yes
17:37 grondilu do you have libicu-dev?
17:37 grondilu which OS anyway?
17:37 hexcoder I have to look...
17:38 hexcoder not installed seperately...
17:38 hexcoder Should I install it?
17:38 grondilu yes
17:38 ajr_ joined #perl6
17:38 hexcoder Ubuntu
17:38 grondilu apt-cache search libicu
17:39 moritz no ICU loaded can be both compile time and run time
17:39 hexcoder thanks! ++
17:40 hexcoder libicu-dev is listed by apt-cache...
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18:03 rurban there's a known issue with latest icu, https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/1014
18:05 jdv79_ jnthn++ # blog post
18:24 xinming joined #perl6
18:32 nwc10 "Ruby is a dying language." says http://rubini.us/2013/10/1​5/introducing-rubinius-x/
18:32 nwc10 This is news to me.
18:32 diakopter I suspected it..
18:33 diakopter only 1,645 jobs with Ruby in the title on indeed.com ...
18:34 diakopter 13,570 for Java
18:34 diakopter 340 for Perl
18:35 diakopter 454 for VB.NET
18:35 diakopter 3,585 for C#
18:35 diakopter 1,191 for Python
18:35 diakopter 4,271 for PHP
18:36 diakopter 3,129 for C++
18:37 diakopter 2,189 for JavaScript or JS
18:39 diakopter 2,743 for HTML or CSS
18:39 diakopter 335 for JQuery
18:41 fhelmberger joined #perl6
18:45 diakopter 2,496 for iOS; 2,415 for Android
18:50 diakopter 2 for lisp
18:51 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:55 [Coke] GAH.
18:56 diakopter 24 for MUMPS
18:57 [Coke] Please gist those.
18:57 [Coke] (if you still want to collect them. I'm done. ;)
18:58 diakopter ok. from the rubinius x post: "In general, anything inspired by Perl should be removed.."
19:02 diakopter stevan_: you're a TRAIL
19:03 stevan_ "a" or "on"
19:03 nwc10 I am not familiar with Ruby, but I've been told someone who is, whose judgement I trust on this, that a problem with Ruby is that it takes many of the magic global variables from Perl, but *has no local* to enable code to safely protect itself from global modifications of them.
19:04 stevan_ nwc10: it also has no strict mode
19:04 nwc10 likewise, the new refinements feature (or "feature") seems to have way to much global
19:04 nwc10 lexical is tractable to read. Global is not.
19:05 stevan_ and object attributes magically appear when you first use them, instead of making you declare them, ... which i really dont like
19:05 diakopter stevan_: my absurd joke pointing out your typo isn't cute anymore when you pretend it's spelled correctly
19:05 timotimo rubinius x is basically Ruby6, right?
19:05 lue hello, world! o/
19:05 nwc10 stevan_: is there a fundamental reason for not having strict? (I believe I understand the reason why it's a "feature" of Python that Python can't have strict)
19:05 nwc10 timotimo: I'm not sure. I'm not sure what to make of it
19:06 stevan_ nwc10: no idea
19:06 stevan_ diakopter: I am just quoting the Changes file, which also has the typo
19:06 stevan_ as was said in #p5mop "wouldn't be a stevan release without one"
19:06 diakopter AOH
19:12 diakopter stevan_: hey what irc network is that; some tor one?
19:21 timotimo ruby is a bit late to the party of "purging perl"
19:22 tadzik maybe it's because it's dying, so they're trying to come up with something cool
19:22 timotimo ah
19:22 tadzik like mimicking python :P
19:23 timotimo python is dying?
19:23 tadzik no, python is hosting the purging perl party
19:23 timotimo ah
19:25 stevan_ diakopter: irc.perl.org
19:25 jnthn It's curious $$ and $1 are mentioned. $$ is quite clearly mis-hufmanized... $1 probably ain't, unless you are discouraging regex use heavily :)
19:25 diakopter stevan_: erm #p5mop ??
19:25 stevan_ diakopter: yes
19:25 stevan_ oh, #p5-mop, sorry
19:25 diakopter *cry*
19:28 diakopter stevan_: so, uh, how does one install this
19:28 diakopter <- kindof stupid
19:28 stevan_ cpanm --dev mop
19:28 stevan_ you know, I should tweet that
19:28 diakopter <- now slightly less stupid
19:29 araujo joined #perl6
19:30 diakopter erm, it's ppm installing MinGW64
19:30 stevan_ uhm
19:30 stevan_ that might be an issue
19:30 stevan_ ask rafl in #p5-mop about windows support on twigils
19:30 diakopter C:\Perl64\bin\perl.exe -x C:\Perl64\bin/ppm.bat install MinGW64
19:31 diakopter is what cpanm launched
19:31 stevan_ no idea, I don't use windows
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19:34 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
19:34 jnthn o/ pmichaud
19:34 moritz \o
19:36 Util o/
19:37 Util (and, #ps now)
19:37 * pmichaud does /join #parrotsketch
19:37 pmichaud oh! and I can even report that I did something!
19:38 jnthn pmichaud++
19:38 * lue wonders what purpose pmichaud had for announcing his joining of a channel...
19:43 prevost joined #perl6
19:59 Util lue: I had just said "#ps now", which meant that the weekly meeting in #parrotsketch had started, so he was replying to me, in a way.
20:00 lue Util: oh, okay.
20:02 pernatiy joined #perl6
20:02 * Ulti wonders if a lot of rosetta code stuff should be available via modules.perl6.org
20:04 denis_boyun joined #perl6
20:05 Ulti I guess most of the more useful tasks like Runge-Kutta are already modules
20:05 Util Ulti: My Math::Quaternion module came from my Quaternion rosettacode post, by request (of Colomon, I think).
20:07 Util Ulti: If you made a list of RC tasks whose Perl 6 solutions should be modules, it would start the conversation about who wants to tackle which piece.
20:07 colomon Util++
20:09 timotimo sounds like wikipedia article list of lists of lists
20:10 timotimo http://en.wikipedia.org/wi​ki/List_of_lists_of_lists
20:11 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
20:13 Ulti Util sounds like a plan
20:13 Util Ulti++
20:13 timotimo wow, nickcolor.pl doesn't see a reason to give ulti and util different colors
20:13 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
20:13 Ulti http://rosettacode.org/wiki/LZW_compression#Perl_6  for example could be good if it was bufs instead of strings
20:14 jnthn Yes, I was just like, "why is that guy talking to himself" :P
20:14 Ulti :]
20:14 timotimo that would also make the code on rosettacode automatically tested (by proxy)
20:14 timotimo even better would be rosettacode download support for panda :P
20:15 Ulti thats doable
20:15 Ulti just magic a module that exports all the subs
20:16 Util Ulti and timotimo: Be advised that Ingy has made inroads towards some of that. Full download and extract of all RC code for all tasks for all languages.
20:16 Util https://github.com/acmeism/RosettaCodeData
20:16 Ulti not sure all of the rosetta examples stand alone or only have code in the code blocks though
20:16 timotimo except the code in rosettacode isn't fit to be re.... yes
20:16 Ulti Util: cool
20:16 Ulti I'll watch that repo
20:18 Ulti Util: have you seen the language colour bar on that repo! :D
20:19 lue timotimo: same for me with Ulti/Util coloring :/
20:19 timotimo it doesn't fit and i can't scroll it :(
20:19 Util Ulti: I had not noticed. *Pretty*   Thanks!
20:29 Ulti wow ok so Ingy has solved the extracting part o__O
20:50 benabik joined #perl6
20:53 Util Ulti and timotimo: See Ingy talk about it here:
20:53 Util http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwtyQh4​IfbA&amp;feature=c4-overview-vl&amp;li​st=PLA9_Hq3zhoFy0zej1j4QZtz5awFKXunZX
20:53 Util (YAPC::NA::2013 Lightning Talks Day 2)
20:53 Util RC is discussed from 50:25 to 51:10, but you should really watch from 45:45 - 51:10 for maximum hilarity.
20:55 Ulti thanks a lot, watching now :)
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22:17 dalek nqp: 8ca5f43 | dwarring++ | examples/rubyish/ (4 files):
22:17 dalek nqp: added rubyish fractal tree example
22:17 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8ca5f437e9
22:34 colomon joined #perl6
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23:24 dalek perl6-roast-data: 147d4cf | coke++ | / (2 files):
23:24 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
23:24 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/147d4cfd96
23:26 fgomez joined #perl6
23:41 [Coke] nqp: say(nqp::concat("hi","hi")); say (nqp::concat_s("hi","hi"));
23:41 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say (nqp::"␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 14748 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:5229) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.nqp:279)␤»
23:41 [Coke] nqp: say(nqp::concat("hi","hi")); say(nqp::concat_s("hi","hi"));
23:41 camelia nqp: OUTPUT«hihi␤hihi␤»
23:41 [Coke] ... why do we have 2 concat opcodes in nqp-p?
23:42 diakopter one used to modify the original input register I think, on parrot
23:43 [Coke] not now, though.
23:43 diakopter maybe stil does
23:43 [Coke] they're both registered the same way, now.
23:43 [Coke] QAST::Operations.add_core_pirop_mapping('concat', 'concat', 'Sss', :inlinable(1));
23:43 diakopter ok; probably the _s is a fossil then
23:43 [Coke] QAST::Operations.add_core_​pirop_mapping('concat_s', 'concat', 'Sss', :inlinable(1));
23:45 diakopter [Coke]: if I had to guess, I'd guess that they needed the _s around for bootstrap purposes
23:45 diakopter for a while, or something.
23:46 [Coke] likely.
23:46 [Coke] https://github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/138
23:49 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:50 [Coke] looks like it doesn't appear anywhere in rakudo/nqp
23:57 [Coke] why does moar have "iscoderef" in addition to "isinvokable" ?

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