Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-12-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:15 colomon \o/
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00:27 [Coke] colomon: ?
00:27 colomon rakudo-moar added in.
00:27 colomon you must think it's getting close enough to consider....
00:29 [Coke] pay no attention to the man behind the mirror.
00:31 [Coke] I'm just hoping to catch it when it starts.
00:37 colomon I apologize for not having pushed Niecza to a clean test suite.
00:37 colomon Got sidetracked trying to figure out how to fix the :sigspace issue.
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01:33 TimToady masak: your first two examples are missing the RHS of a =>
01:35 jnap joined #perl6
01:41 lue S03/Adverbs: "while    $a < 1 && $b == 2 :carefully    does the && carefully because && is of tighter precedence than "comma"." I'm not sure how the comma precedence level applies here.
01:45 lue S03/Adverbs is kind of weird in general. TimToady, in the case of  $a < 1 and $b == 2  , would an adverb after that apply to 'and' instead of '==', because 'and' would be the topmost (i.e. loosest) operator in the set?
01:48 TimToady no, adverbs parse tighter than item asssignment
01:48 lue I don't know, "slightly tighter than item assignment" and "applies to the topmost operator" seem like opposing statements, at least by my understanding of "topmost". What doesn't help is that unexplained mention of the comma precedence level.
01:49 TimToady probably a fossil
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01:50 lue I think I'm starting to see. But then I don't understand how replacing 'and' with '&&' stops applying to ==, since == is still tighter than &&. Or is that thanks to topmost meaning "loosest operator tighter than item assignment"
01:52 lue Hang on. Using the precedence table at the top of S03, could I start from just above item assignment, and just keep going up the list (wrapping around if necessary), and use the first operator precedence that occurs after either ( or the start of the statement?
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01:56 TimToady it's no different from how any other infix at a given precedence is parsed, except there's no right-hand argument, and no infix :)
01:56 lue *rightmost op of the first op. precedence that is found after either in the statement or paren group, going through the levels like that, to be clear
01:56 colomon r: say (0x28010, 0x28011, 0x28012).chrs.ords
01:56 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«55392 56336 55392 56337 55392 56338␤»
01:56 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«163856 163857 163858␤»
01:57 colomon bad rakudo jvm
01:57 lue TimToady: OK, so is that talk of "topmost op, i.e. last-used" wrong? Because that would seemingly prefer looser over tighter.
01:58 TimToady no different from an infix, which pays attention to the loosest thing to the left, but only up to a point
01:58 TimToady that's how operator precedence works
01:59 lue So I'll just mentally substitute :adverb with something like    ö <INVISIBLE RHS> and work through example expression that way :)
02:00 * lue will replace the S03/Adverbs section once he's reassured his understanding. It reads like an oooold piece of writing.
02:02 colomon …. seems like .ords could be fixed in jvm?
02:03 lue colomon: yeah it does :) Stupid Java strings...
02:04 thou joined #perl6
02:10 lue TimToady: I'll also assume that adverbs don't even try to apply to terms, or alternatively try to apply to them but move on to the next token if they can't.
02:10 lue Also,  N  Terms             42 3.14 "eek" qq["foo"] $x :!verbose @$array . That adverb's not supposed to be there, is it? Or are they just that weird?
02:11 TimToady that is not an adverb
02:12 TimToady adverbs occur only in infix position
02:15 lue Ah, so calling it an adverb in foo(:!verbose) is erroneous then. Only 1 + 2 :adv and q:adv are adverbs then.
02:15 diakopter infix? I thought postfix
02:16 lue diakopter: infix position because preceding whitespace is OK.
02:16 lue (OK for adverbs, I mean)
02:16 diakopter oh
02:19 btyler anyone else gotten to hello world using rakudo on moar? I noticed that rakudo's Configure.pl has entries for it, but things die in stage0, saying that the moar executable can't find libmoar, so maybe I'm adopting a little too early :)
02:20 btyler doing --backends=moar --gen-moar
02:22 lue Just to clarify, 1 + 2 :adv -> adverb, q:adv// -> adverb, foo(:adv) -> named param, !adverb, and adverbs skip over terms, like 2 in the  1 + 2 :adv  case.
02:22 diakopter r: say :1<111>
02:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/IyXwfD53Ua�Radix 1 out of range (allowed: 2..36)�at /tmp/IyXwfD53Ua:1�------> [32msay :1<111>[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�»
02:22 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tWcRroqwW2�Radix 1 out of range (allowed: 2..36)�at /tmp/tWcRroqwW2:1�------> [32msay :1<111>[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�»
02:23 diakopter r-j: say :2<0>
02:23 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«0␤»
02:23 diakopter why can't there be unary
02:23 diakopter :1<0> is zero, :1<00> is one, :2<000> is two..
02:24 lue diakopter: :1<0> would be one, methinks.
02:24 diakopter but you need a zero..
02:24 lue :1<> == 0 :)
02:24 benabik I've usually seen Unary spelled 1, 11, 111, 1111, 11111, 111111, 11111111.
02:25 * lue thinks there's a reason P6 doesn't support unary :P
02:25 diakopter benabik: which is zero
02:25 lue benabik: that may be, but math say the first digit of any number system is 0 .
02:25 lue r: say "000".chars # hey look, unary!
02:26 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«3␤»
02:26 benabik lue++
02:26 [Coke] btyler: I'm currently getting a segfault building nqp-moar.
02:27 btyler [Coke]: ah, ok
02:27 [Coke] jnthn++ had it working to the point of hello world in the past few days
02:28 diakopter r: my \Fault := Failure;
02:28 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in sink (gen/jvm/CORE.setting)␤  in MAIN (gen/jvm/main.nqp:47)␤  in  (gen/jvm/main.nqp:41)␤  in  (gen/jvm/main.nqp)␤␤»
02:28 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤current instr.: 'sink' pc 442380 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.pir:183502) (gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12028)␤called from Sub 'MAIN' pc 379 (src/gen/perl6.pir:140) (gen/parrot/main.nqp:46)␤called from Sub '' pc 317…»
02:28 [Coke] maybe it's just working on windows, though. Iunno
02:28 lue I segfault after a couple State Vars NYI lines, during setting.
02:28 lue nvm, during Test.pm
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02:30 diakopter well, once the segfaults stop happening, there'll be no segfaults... ;)
02:34 benabik Awh.  Fallbacks don't participate in MRO.  And here I thought I had a "clever" idea: Any.^add_fallback(-> $, $ {True}, -> $, $ { -> *@, *% {} }) # no more method not found errors.
02:41 colomon hmmm, is there a slick way of running through a list and combining certain neighboring elements?
02:42 colomon oh, hey, better solution anyway.  :)
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03:28 colomon btw, PDF::Grammar has failed the last two nights in the smoke test.
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03:47 colomon huh, second issue in a night where I want to run through a list and combine certain neighboring pairs.
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04:22 lue TimToady: would it be right to describe adverbs as skipping tokens it that can't be given an adverb? I ask because some things at Term precedence, like foo(), can take an adverb, while other things at the level, such as "string", can't.
04:22 lue s:2nd/it//
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04:25 [Coke] r: say "what" :the
04:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/W1ZbcBSdWSâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/W1ZbcBSdWS:1â�¤------> [32msay "what" :the[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:25 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Uip7_P30gDâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/Uip7_P30gD:1â�¤------> [32msay "what" :the[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:27 lue r: say 1 + 2 :adv
04:27 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'adv' passed␤  in block  at /tmp/GU_DbS5ljS:1␤  in any eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1086␤  in any evalfiles at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1292␤  in any command_eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1196␤  in any command_…»
04:27 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'adv' passed␤  in sub infix:<+> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3922␤  in block  at /tmp/MrOuqE2VGV:1␤  in any  at /tmp/MrOuqE2VGV:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1146␤  in any eval at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.…»
04:27 lue r: say 2 :adv
04:27 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/jYqk7yxlpTâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/jYqk7yxlpT:1â�¤------> [32msay 2 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:27 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/59_1KjgAkhâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/59_1KjgAkh:1â�¤------> [32msay 2 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:27 * lue wonders which term the error triggers on: the 2 or the 'say'
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04:31 lue std: 1 && 2 :adv
04:31 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
04:31 lue std: 1 and 2 :adv
04:31 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
04:31 lue rn: 1 and 2 :adv
04:31 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/lvwI95zYFlâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/lvwI95zYFl:1â�¤------> [32m1 and 2 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:31 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/OyCeYOG5O_â�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/OyCeYOG5O_:1â�¤------> [32m1 and 2 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:31 camelia ..niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«(timeout)[auto-compiling setting]␤»
04:34 lue Not being able to apply an adverb to things below the Adverb pseudo-level is a bug, right? Or is it?
04:36 benabik I think that it's syntactically fine, but semantically bad.  I think Rakudo adverbs by passing it as a named parameter, and you can't pass things to 2.
04:38 lue I think I'm starting to see how to mentally parse adverbs now though. I'm imagining that operators turn itself and its terms into a weird... thing that can accept adverbs if given. Since 'and' is below the adverb level, it doesn't get a chance to form this object before adverbs happen.
04:41 lue Grrr. I'm sorely missing a well-written S03/Adverbs. I'm afraid I'll end up having to leave operators out of my Adverbs post, simply because I can't explain it myself :(
04:42 lue Or perhaps it's a rakudo that's not working exactly right on the subject that's messing me up :/
04:43 lue r: 1 == 2 :adv; # case in point
04:43 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/EOqManUWpnâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/EOqManUWpn:1â�¤------> [32m1 == 2 :adv[33mâ��[31m; # case in point[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:43 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/aefBrHPmTxâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/aefBrHPmTx:1â�¤------> [32m1 == 2 :adv[33mâ��[31m; # case in point[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
04:46 benabik Hm...  It throws that error when attempting to attach an adverb to something that isn't a call or callmethod.
04:47 benabik I'm guessing that's a parse error on Rakudo's part, attaching :adv to the 2, where you're expecting it to be on the ==
04:48 * lue is tempted to say that adverbs should be turned into a proper metaop or something (==:adv ?), because absolutely none of this helps his understanding of how opadvs work.
04:49 benabik Operator adverbs are named parameters to the infix:<> sub, supplied postfix to the operator itself.
04:49 benabik OR at least that's what Rakudo is doing when it parses it correctly.
04:49 lue .oO(You must correctly identify what operator the given adverb attaches to in various complex expressions. All you have to figure this out is an outdated S03/Adverbs and a buggy Rakudo.)
04:50 lue benabik: my issue comes with being able to figure out 1) which operator the adverb applies to in complex expressions (i.e. more than 1 operator), and a related 2) where to put an adverb so that it goes to the right operator.
04:51 benabik lue: Picture parens from the beginning of the expression to just before the adverb.  It applies to whatever operator happens last in there.
04:51 benabik That's way too loose an explination.
04:52 lue :)
04:52 benabik Works as long as there's no operator with lower precidence.
04:52 lue like 'and' ?
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04:52 benabik Yes.  Anything in the list after adverbs.
04:53 benabik I think Adverbs is at the wrong indent level in S03's TOC.
04:53 lue perhaps a little bit :)
04:53 benabik It's a precedence level, not the start of a new section.
04:54 lue so C<1 && 2 || 3 :adv> applies to the &&, and C<1 and 2 || 3 :adv> applies to who knows under the () visualization, right?
04:54 benabik Adverbs are a very loose postfix op, which is...  odd.
04:54 benabik Generally postfix ops bind very tightly.
04:55 lue I think I've come to the tentative conclusion that things which modify the behavior of operators should be attached directly to the operator. If only there was an existing mechanism adverbs could utilize...
04:56 lue .oO(I think when I understand exactly how adverbs work with operators, I'll stop feeling an eagerness to kill it in its current form.)
04:56 benabik Sorting out what :adv attaches to is no different than sorting out what order the && , ||, and and work in.
04:57 lue benabik: that's what TimToady said :) . The problem is is that I'd like to play around with this, and a certain compiler has decided to be completely broken in that respect.
04:57 benabik Unfortunitly EXPR is a very difficult rule to poke around in, otherwise I'd try to fix it.  :-/
04:57 lue And the part of the spec that I would turn to in times like this is outdated and way-too-sparse.
04:58 benabik I wonder if it would make more sense to have adverbs parse literally as a postfix operator with loose precedence.
04:58 benabik Oh, whitespace.  I see.
04:59 lue I vote that they should behave like metaops (metainfix?) . Makes it consistent with other operator-modifiers. Of course, my vote only counts if changing it is desired :)
05:00 benabik I think the only errors in the POD are the reference to "comma" prec and the bad heading level for the section.
05:00 lue Ideally, I'd like to at least be able to do    1 == :adv 2    , but that's apparently TTIAR . To rakudo and std
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05:01 benabik That would be obnoxious with long adverbs.  Would lose sight of what operator is happening before getting to the second argument.
05:02 benabik $x eqv :ok<$x is equivalent to $y+2> $y+2; # yuck
05:02 benabik Also, in most calls you put named arguments after positional.  :-)
05:02 lue benabik: another (seeming) error: "$a < 1 && $b == 2 :carefully" should still affect ==, as == is tighter than &&, no?
05:03 benabik lue: It applies to the thing that is loosest, but not looser than item assignment.
05:05 lue OK. That's a helpful rule. Now I'm concerned for the guy that redefines the 'or' op to be able to inclusive and exclusive or, and expects to be able to use adverbs to switch behavior :)
05:05 benabik Well, you can do it for ||.  :-D
05:06 lue but this hypothetical guy moved old 'or' to 'ior'. I'm not sure what to move old '||' to :D
05:07 lue benabik: that helps me to explain operators for my advent post at least. (The looser part in particular explains why terms don't always take the adverb.)
05:08 lue But I still contest that S03/Adverbs is poorly written for this. And yes, I've already happily volunteered to rewrite it when I understand adverbs (I will take a successful review of that part of my advent post tomorrow as proof of understanding ☺)
05:09 benabik Well, I didn't say it wasn't poorly written.  Just that it had few factual errors.  :-D
05:09 lue :)
05:10 lue In the case of    1 || 2 and 3 :adv    , should the adverb apply to the ||, or throw its hands up in the air because who knows anymore with that looser-than-adverbs op in there?
05:10 benabik ((1 || 2) and (3 :adv))
05:11 benabik And then...   `3 :adv`?  WTF, mate.
05:11 benabik It won't "hop over" looser operators to find an operator to attach to.
05:11 lue OK. 1 and 2 || 3 :adv would become    (1 and (2 || 3 :adv)), which makes sense. ...right?
05:11 benabik Right.
05:12 benabik You can do `1 || 2 :adv and 3`
05:12 benabik std: 1 || 2 :adv and 3
05:13 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
05:13 lue I just came up with a module idea: Ofun::ParenAll --- learn operator precedence with this handy code transformer :)
05:13 benabik std: 1 || 2 :adv && 3
05:13 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
05:13 benabik +1
05:14 lue It would transform  1 and 2 || 3  into  ((1) and ((2) || (3)))  , for example. (perhaps spaces between parens though)
05:15 lue ...wait. That would effectively require a reimplementation of EXPR, wouldn't it? :/ Or at least using it, and thus replicating Perl 6's specific use of EXPR.
05:16 benabik It might be best to try to pretty-print the AST from Perl6::Grammar instead.
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05:18 lue Yeah :) . I was thinking of a learn-me("expr") function or something though.
05:20 benabik No reason learn-me couldn't call Perl6::Grammar.parse(:rule<EXPR>)  :-)
05:20 lue And I assume   1 || 2 ^^ 3 :adv applies to ^^ (in case of equal level, rightmost op wins?)
05:20 benabik Erm.
05:20 carlin masak: "So hash entries (a key plus a value) really become more of a thing in Perl 6 than they every were in Perl 5." s/every/ever
05:21 benabik Which one wins is based on associativity.
05:21 lue ( ( (1) || (2) ) ^^ (3) :adv ) is how I read that.
05:22 * lue likes the sound of Ofun::ParenAll more and more :)
05:22 benabik Yes.  they're left-associative.  So ((1 || 2) ^^ 3) :adv
05:24 lue and thus 1 ** 2 ** 3 :adv is ( ( (1) ** ( (2) ** (3) ) ) :adv )
05:24 benabik Yes.
05:25 lue .oO(AllParen should alternate between inter-paren space and no inter-paren space for max readability, methinks)
05:25 * benabik has always preferred spaces around operators, but none around parens.
05:27 lue O.o I just realized: if you think of the colon in an adverb as a double bond (chemistry), then adverbs are an infix that's double bonded to the LHS! :D (normal infixes are single bonded: i.e. 1 + 2 is 1 •+• 2)
05:27 benabik heh
05:30 * lue wonders what something like  ⫶?? !! would mean :)
05:30 benabik That you've gone quite mad.
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05:31 benabik Naively, $x ⫶?? !! would mean if $x is true return $x, otherwise return $x.  :-D
05:32 lue (EXPR) ⫶??!! --> ?EXPR ?? EXPR !! !EXPR, obviously :)
05:33 lue Another module idea, one that I'm not so eager to pursue:  Ofun::OpBonds --- Ever wanted to double- or triple-bond operators to arguments? Now you can!
05:34 benabik sub postfix:<:+>($x) { $x * 2 }; sub postfix:<:*>($x) { $x ** 2 }
05:35 lue Ideally •, :, and ⫶ would be metaops :)
05:43 benabik Well, ⫶ is just a special case for ??!!.  There is no generic trinary operator category.
05:44 benabik In fact ??!! itself is infix, with an is parsed that has another expression in the middle of it.  :-D
05:49 * lue imagines a incircumfix category
05:49 lue *an
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05:55 benabik I don't think we want to encourage that kind of behavior.  :-D
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06:03 lue Here's my Day 10 post for review, #perl6: https://gist.github.com/lue/94a97d2e8eb96e424471
06:04 lue Good ♘ all o/
06:04 raiph \o
06:06 benabik lue: line 117: $z and $y :adverb  # applies to and.  No it doesn't.  and is looser than item assignment.  It applies to the $y, which is probably not what you meant.
06:11 TimToady masak: also => is right associative, as . is in Lisp
06:16 lue benabik: fixed (really gone now)
06:17 lue (and yes, I do mean &, not &&)
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06:23 raiph r-p: sort 1, 4, 3
06:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: ( no output )
06:23 raiph r-p: say sort 1, 4, 3
06:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«1 3 4␤»
06:24 raiph p5eval: say sort 1, 3, 2
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09:12 hoelzro morning #perl6!
09:16 FROGGS hi hoelzro
09:17 sjn good * #perl6
09:19 hoelzro ahoy FROGGS, sjn
09:20 FROGGS o/
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10:05 raiph r-p: my enum Day <<Mon Tues Wed Thur Fri Sat Sun>>; $_ = DateTime.new(now); say sort { Day(.day-of-week - 1) }, 3, 4
10:06 raiph double oops (ww AND i think i killed camelia)
10:07 FROGGS raiph: no, I think I did that in /privmsg a few minutes ago :/
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10:10 moritz evalbot control restart
10:10 camelia joined #perl6
10:11 moritz nqp-p: say('alive') # first one will be slooow
10:11 camelia nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«alive␤»
10:12 moritz or not :-)
10:12 moritz r: say 42
10:12 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«42␤»
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12:30 FROGGS ==> Successfully installed panda
12:30 FROGGS <HANG>
12:30 FROGGS ummm :/
12:30 tadzik yeah
12:30 tadzik to-json in a loop
12:30 tadzik slooooow
12:30 FROGGS tadzik: ahhh
12:30 FROGGS so I'll wait :o)
12:31 tadzik I guess I should make it one to-json, may turn out to be less tragic. May not
12:31 FROGGS it is a modified panda btw, so I might be to blame anyway
12:31 tadzik in emmentaller, it used to take a couple of minutes for this ste
12:32 FROGGS done!
12:32 FROGGS took about 5 minutes I think
12:32 FROGGS brb
12:32 masak good day, #perl6
12:32 tadzik hey hey masak
12:33 FROGGS[mobile] hi masak
12:35 FROGGS[mobile] tadzik: I am almost at a point where I can run panda from my S11 - compliant installation
12:35 tadzik awesome
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12:39 masak carlin: re s/every/ever/ -- thank you; fixed.
12:39 masak carlin++
12:39 FROGGS tadzik: can you give me a commit bit for panda? I'd like to push to a branch today or tomorrow
12:40 masak someone seems to have made &gt; out of > and saved my RHSes, fixing TimToady++'s bug.
12:40 FROGGS tadzik: I swear I don't touch master :o)
12:40 hoelzro so I've been trying to debug that stupid parser error I found last week, and I'd like to try to change the grammar without having to recompile the setting
12:40 FROGGS p: say %*LANG<perl6>
12:40 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Failure␤  in method gist at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12020␤  in method gist at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:1014␤  in sub say at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12920␤  in block  at /tmp/JUmURjP17F:1␤  in any  at /tmp…»
12:40 masak TimToady: dang! shoulda double-checked "left-associative". I did think through it, but clearly that wasn't enough :/
12:40 masak fixed.
12:41 hoelzro however, rakudo complains about "missing or wrong version of dependency src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp"; I'm guessing that there's some tracking of the checksum that the setting was built with or something?
12:41 FROGGS hoelzro: correct
12:41 hoelzro good, then my instincts are right =)
12:41 masak benabik: sorry I failed to mention you in the post. I planned to but forgot :/
12:41 hoelzro is there a way I can circumvent that?
12:41 masak benabik: I'll add it in a comment.
12:42 FROGGS hoelzro: I don't know any
12:42 FROGGS hoelzro: what do you want to change btw?
12:42 hoelzro well, I want to build the setting so that perl6 works, but I want to alter the parser to see if I can find the source of this odd bug
12:43 FROGGS ahh
12:43 FROGGS :/
12:43 hoelzro because I think the alterations I want to make will cause the setting to fail to build
12:43 masak lizmat: fixed -- changed to 'means the same as :blackberries($blackberries)' -- thanks
12:44 FROGGS masak++ # post post fixing
12:45 hoelzro well
12:46 hoelzro I have a hunch about how list assignment could be messing up the pars
12:46 hoelzro *parse
12:46 hoelzro so I wanted to fiddle with it a bit
12:46 hoelzro and see if that generated the correct AST for the scalar assignment below
12:47 masak FROGGS: I should really be writing slides. I'm on a conf, and I'm on to talk for an hour day after tomorrow...
12:47 masak FROGGS: haven't been able to conjure up the right level of panic yet.
12:48 masak oh, speaking of which. there's a gap in the schedule on day 13. https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/ma​ster/misc/perl6advent-2013/schedule
12:48 FROGGS PANIC!!!!
12:48 masak hey, calm down :P
12:48 FROGGS *g*
12:48 FROGGS I can't after four cups of coffee :o)
12:49 masak I will be able to cover the 13th if need be -- I can probably write it on Thursday evening.
12:49 tadzik FROGGS: sure :)
12:49 masak but I would prefer it (as usual) if someone else jumped in.
12:49 FROGGS masak: I'd like to read something from TimToady++
12:49 sqirrel joined #perl6
12:50 tadzik done
12:50 masak FROGGS: still hoping TimToady++ decides to nab slot 24. :)
12:51 FROGGS masak: that would be nice of course
12:51 masak he did in 2010.
12:52 * FROGGS looks
12:53 masak he wrote about trolling :P
12:59 atroxaper joined #perl6
13:02 FROGGS tadzik: thank you!
13:03 timotimo joined #perl6
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14:05 V_S_C I'm trying Rakudo * on Windows
14:06 V_S_C It says no ICU lib loaded
14:07 V_S_C I've copied the ICU bin directory to the PERL6 bin directory already
14:07 FROGGS V_S_C: it is not that easy sadly
14:07 kaleem joined #perl6
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14:08 FROGGS you would need to recompile parrot to get icu support
14:08 V_S_C thats alright
14:08 V_S_C ohh
14:08 FROGGS yeah, it does some magic to detect that when configuring it
14:08 V_S_C & I was thinking there might be version dependency..
14:08 FROGGS without it being found at that point, there is no chance to get the support for it later
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14:19 V_S_C @FROGGS That's documented http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Parro​t_Virtual_Machine/Building_Parrot
14:20 V_S_C Anything specific in the command line that I should remember?
14:20 xinming_ joined #perl6
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14:21 FROGGS V_S_C: you'd need a icu-config.bat to actually use this:
14:21 FROGGS --icu-config Specify a location for the Unicode ICU library on your system.
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14:22 FROGGS dunno if you get libicu for windows that has such a config program
14:24 V_S_C thats alrite
14:25 V_S_C I used HTTP::Easy::PSGI
14:28 V_S_C Occassionally, I get recv failed: An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host.
14:28 V_S_C Any suggestion?
14:29 FROGGS no idea
14:29 V_S_C k, thnx
14:29 atroxaper joined #perl6
14:29 FROGGS last time I did something with IO::Socket::INET was like twelve months ago :/
14:30 V_S_C The problems not with PERL
14:30 V_S_C From inspecting it all I understood is
14:31 V_S_C rarely the user's browser/system crashes or loses connectivity..
14:31 V_S_C The improvement I need to make in the script
14:31 FROGGS maybe use wireshark to hunt it down?
14:31 wsri joined #perl6
14:32 V_S_C is to bind new server socket
14:32 V_S_C Right now, I manually restart..
14:33 V_S_C I'll find the solution
14:33 FROGGS I hope so :o)
14:33 V_S_C I just asked as sometimes others have already solved..
14:33 FROGGS yeah
14:33 enikar joined #perl6
14:34 FROGGS and it is always good that we know what is going on
14:35 V_S_C :)
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14:45 bbkr r: my $foo = 13; say :$foo
14:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«␤»
14:46 bbkr r: my $foo = 13; say (:$foo)
14:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«"foo" => 13␤»
14:47 bbkr should those two lines above return the same result (pair)?
14:49 FROGGS I would expect that, yes
14:49 * bbkr reports bug
14:50 FROGGS bbkr++
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15:02 timotimo but that's just the result of say not taking slurpy named arguments
15:02 timotimo should it?
15:02 FROGGS ohh
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15:03 FROGGS p: my $bar = 42; sub foo(*@a) { say @a }; foo :$bar # it should complain then, no?
15:03 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'bar' passed␤  in sub foo at /tmp/_x8bbPJSlN:1␤  in block  at /tmp/_x8bbPJSlN:1␤  in any  at /tmp/_x8bbPJSlN:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1146␤  in any eval at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1133␤  in a…»
15:03 FROGGS it takes slurpy named args (silently)
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15:05 timotimo that's because of the ... thingie
15:05 timotimo API compatibility ... mumble mumble
15:05 timotimo that makes every sub take a named slurpy if it doesn't provide one
15:05 timotimo p: say &say.signature
15:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«:()␤»
15:05 timotimo p: say &say
15:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«sub say() { ... }␤»
15:05 timotimo er ... ok?
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15:06 timotimo ah, yes, say takes (|)
15:06 FROGGS I thought only methods swallow named slurpies
15:06 timotimo yeah, that must be right
15:06 timotimo look at the implementation of say; it takes a capture and iterates over the positionals only
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15:24 colomon Error while constructing error object:Could not locate compile-time value for symbol Syntax::Missing
15:24 colomon Error while compiling, type X::Syntax::Missing
15:25 FROGGS colomon: you did something wrong in the setting?
15:25 colomon well, I'm hacking in the setting.
15:25 colomon I haven't found anything obvious I did wrong yet
15:25 FROGGS underneath these massages should be the attributes that would show up in the proper exception
15:26 FROGGS messages*
15:27 colomon ack, let a C++ comment slip into my p6 code
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15:39 * timotimo idly stares at the EXPR code to figure out if it's easy or not to fix 10 < * < 20 code-gen
15:42 ajr joined #perl6
15:46 colomon errr… what's numeric bitwise or in p6?
15:46 colomon oh!
15:46 colomon never mind
15:46 colomon C++ translation problems again
15:47 pmichaud joined #perl6
15:47 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
15:47 FROGGS hi pmichaud!
15:47 timotimo hello :)
15:47 FROGGS pmichaud: you take #20? *cough* https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/ma​ster/misc/perl6advent-2013/schedule
15:48 FROGGS :P
15:48 pmichaud Dec 20th is going to be a really busy day for me :)
15:48 FROGGS :o)
15:48 pmichaud plus I'm not sure what I'd write about -- I'm really rusty at the moment
15:49 FROGGS I was not that serious :o)
15:49 pmichaud Anyone know the magic needed to log into RT?  I don't seem to be able to do it.
15:49 FROGGS my bitcard account works
15:49 timotimo you're not supposed to write the 20th blogpost *on* the 20th :P
15:49 pmichaud timotimo: I'm not supposed to write my presentations on the day I give them, either... but that hasn't stopped me from doing it.  :P
15:50 colomon pmichaud++
15:50 FROGGS "Service Temporarily Unavailable"
15:50 FROGGS I lied
15:50 timotimo :)
15:50 pmichaud I'll just note #120735 here
15:50 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=120735
15:50 pmichaud my $foo = 13;  say :$foo      # won't output anything
15:50 pmichaud because :$foo is a named argument to say()
15:50 FROGGS yeah, timotimo++ figured that
15:51 FROGGS the question is: should say() just swallow it?
15:51 pmichaud I was going to get onto RT to reject the ticket, but I can't get past bitcard
15:52 FROGGS hmm, now I can log in
15:52 FROGGS I clicked on "login as another user" in the ticket, and the on the bitcard thingy
15:52 rurban1 joined #perl6
15:54 pmichaud I got in now... I guess bitcard was having technical difficulties.
15:54 pmichaud Okay, I posted my reply.
15:55 raydiak broken webapps make the world go 'round :P
15:55 FROGGS pmichaud++
15:56 colomon The correct ifdef for jvm is #?if jvm     right?
15:58 FROGGS yesrakudo/src/core/Array.pm:16:#?if jvm
15:58 FROGGS so, yes
15:58 colomon is there a #?else
15:58 colomon or did I just make that up?
15:58 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:59 FROGGS do: #?if !jvm
15:59 timotimo what cool thing are you developing, colomon? :)
15:59 colomon timotimo: I'm trying to fix .ords on JVM
16:00 colomon the quick, hacky way, rather than redoing all the code to be properly utf-16
16:01 timotimo that sounds helpful :)
16:01 colomon well, it would help me.  :)
16:02 colomon my STEP code is much faster on JVM, but I've got failing tests because .ords doesn't work right.
16:04 fhelmberger joined #perl6
16:06 colomon arrrrrrrgh!
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16:08 dalek roast: baa6ed0 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S02-types/whatever.t:
16:08 dalek roast: unskip a whatever+postcircumfix-method related test
16:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/baa6ed0aab
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16:19 timotimo EXPR is kind of nontrivial ...
16:23 FROGGS yay!! I can haz panda-p, panda-j, ...
16:24 xinming joined #perl6
16:28 FROGGS and this panda-p can be invoked like:
16:29 FROGGS panda-p --auth=tadzik --ver=* install JSON::Pretty
16:29 FROGGS --auth/name/ver is not passed to the real panda script, but handled by the panda-p wrapper
16:30 FROGGS and this wrapper lists all installed panda scripts if the auth/name/ver triple does not match any
16:31 timotimo \o/
16:31 FROGGS I like it :o)
16:32 moritz advanced wrapper programming!
16:33 FROGGS Yet Another Layer Of Indirection!
16:33 FROGGS (tm)
16:35 moritz at $work we have a very fun setup
16:35 moritz it's a web application which allows you to create virtual machines
16:35 diakopter I'll see your N+1 layers of indirection and raise you an Abstraction abstraction
16:35 moritz it's a django web app, running as WSGI
16:36 moritz and since forking and then killing the process isn't a good idea in that setup, it launches an external program via the 'at' daemon
16:36 FROGGS hehe
16:36 moritz that program is a shell script, which invokes ssh to another host
16:36 moritz there a ~/.ssh/authorized_keys hook is called, which is another shell script
16:37 moritz which calls a perl script, which uses some libraries to talk to a vmware SOAP API
16:37 FROGGS hehe
16:37 moritz which in turn instructs one of the hypervisors to actually create the stupid VM
16:37 FROGGS that sounds like fun :o)
16:37 sqirrel joined #perl6
16:37 FROGGS ohh, my wife is joining... need to hide /o\
16:38 moritz today's mini challenge: count the number of wrappers in the setup above
16:39 benabik moritz: O(n+m) where n is the maximum sane number of wrappers and m is a positive integer.
16:39 diakopter moritz: sorry, 256-bit overflow when counting
16:40 moritz benabik, diakopter: :-)
16:45 timotimo http://questhub.io/realm/perl/​quest/52a5f3c79f567a5a02000055 - feel free to give advice or just cheer me on from the sidelines
16:46 benabik timotimo: rah, rah, rah
16:48 sjohnson joined #perl6
16:48 timotimo ooooh
16:48 timotimo a perl6 port of Sereal might be a fun project
16:48 benabik Sounds surreal.
16:49 timotimo that could be the project's name :P
16:51 zakharyas joined #perl6
16:51 sjohnson Sounds sorear.
16:51 timotimo turning the associativity of %chaining to right instead of left makes the whatever code generation work properly, so i *think* i know what line i have to look at more carefully
16:52 timotimo (it does seem to break a whole lot of other spectests, though)
16:59 kaleem joined #perl6
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17:16 timotimo oh yikes
17:16 FROGGS joined #perl6
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17:17 timotimo having multiple operators in a row curried into WhateverCode turns into a cascade of calls to older WhateverCode objects
17:17 timotimo that can't be efficient
17:17 moritz it's not :-)
17:17 moritz if you can flatten that out, that would be awesome
17:18 timotimo i'll have to look at that later
17:19 timotimo in theory i could annotate the WhateverCode WVal node with the original QAST using the hash interface
17:19 timotimo but *maybe* it's possible to re-use the existing inlining magic
17:24 timotimo quest created
17:29 FROGGS lol
17:29 FROGGS https://github.com/barbie/Acme-CPANAutho​rs-InMemoriam/blob/master/META.json#L44
17:30 FROGGS the META.json has a "provides" section too, exactly like my S11 proposal :P
17:30 FROGGS (and it almost has an identical structure)
17:32 timotimo moritz: it turns out the performance difference isn't that big, at least in a very naive benchmark i just ran
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17:33 timotimo the optimizer already "inlines" the inner blocks, but it does bindsig and friends each time
17:37 timotimo http://questhub.io/realm/perl/quest/52a5fce49f5​67a5a0200005b/comment/52a6001a9f567ab87a000056
17:44 timotimo i'm so used to reading the advent calendar post for the next day the evening before that i'm missing my daily advent calendar fix now :(
17:53 timotimo huh, the bug in the whatever currying of chains is different from what i thought it was o_O
17:54 timotimo ooooh, duh!
17:55 timotimo i'm silly
18:00 * nebuchadnezzar receives a SIGBEER: exit
18:15 lizmat joined #perl6
18:18 * timotimo has a prototype and disappears to a social gathering type of thing
18:18 perigrin joined #perl6
18:19 * lizmat has finally arrive home, really
18:19 lizmat *arrived
18:21 timotimo the "can this be whatever-curried?" check is called pretty often. i wonder if it's worth looking at making it fail quicker in the common case
18:21 ashleydev W
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18:45 dalek rakudo-star-daily: c37f216 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
18:45 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
18:45 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/c37f2166f2
18:47 timotimo now that I'm out of the house i notice the somewhat obvious mistake my prototype has...
18:47 timotimo oh well
18:47 FROGGS that is life :o)
18:47 meeeeee joined #perl6
18:47 * FROGGS .oO( toilet++)
18:48 Esylt joined #perl6
18:48 timotimo I'll see if using my laptop at the social gathering will be acceptable
18:51 timotimo i think i kind of figured out what my code is supposed to look like now.
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19:10 lue hello world o/
19:13 * lue re-pastes the link to his advent post draft: https://gist.github.com/lue/94a97d2e8eb96e424471
19:14 * TimToady is in the middle of reading the old link; has it changed?
19:14 TimToady well, it's the same link, but I'd still like to know if it changed :)
19:15 BenGoldberg r: print :th(4)
19:15 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: ( no output )
19:15 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
19:15 BenGoldberg r: print 1..10 :th(4)
19:15 TimToady needs parens
19:15 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'th' passed␤  in block  at /tmp/v4Rq0wMbwj:1␤  in any eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1086␤  in any evalfiles at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1292␤  in any command_eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1196␤  in any command_e…»
19:16 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'th' passed␤  in sub infix:<..> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:7084␤  in block  at /tmp/VEp5DVulUz:1␤  in any  at /tmp/VEp5DVulUz:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1146␤  in any eval at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.…»
19:16 BenGoldberg r: print (1..10) :th(4)
19:16 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/9A0DU207dT�You can't adverb that�at /tmp/9A0DU207dT:1�------> [32mprint (1..10) :th(4)[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�»
19:16 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/uaUC8DIVF3�You can't adverb that�at /tmp/uaUC8DIVF3:1�------> [32mprint (1..10) :th(4)[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�»
19:16 TimToady r: print (:4th)
19:16 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/zrfSlM4Wmsâ�¤Malformed radix numberâ�¤at /tmp/zrfSlM4Wms:1â�¤------> [32mprint (:4[33mâ��[31mth)[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        number in radix notationâ�¤Â»
19:16 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/5gJs7Q52MBâ�¤Malformed radix numberâ�¤at /tmp/5gJs7Q52MB:1â�¤------> [32mprint (:4[33mâ��[31mth)[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        number in radix notationâ�¤Â»
19:16 BenGoldberg r: print (:th(4))
19:16 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«th      4»
19:16 TimToady n: print (:4th)
19:17 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«(timeout)[auto-compiling setting]␤»
19:17 TimToady heh
19:17 TimToady pugs: print (:4th)
19:17 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«4th        1»
19:17 TimToady er, no
19:18 TimToady n: print (:4th)
19:18 BenGoldberg n: say 'alive'
19:18 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«(timeout)[auto-compiling setting]␤»
19:18 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
19:18 FROGGS niecza is borken for days
19:18 timotimo aaw :(
19:19 timotimo i was considering telling TimK1 to try his code on niecza
19:19 TimToady anyhoo, :4th should be equivalent to :th(4), and it looks like it isn' tin rakudo
19:19 moritz it's only for regex adverbs
19:19 TimToady probably an LTM failure
19:20 TimToady it shouldn't do radix unless it's followed by a < or [
19:25 TimToady it should be treating :4th as a complete token in <colonpair>
19:25 TimToady it should try for radix only if there's no identifier after the 4
19:27 TimToady looks like the colonpair is simply missing the alternative to parse :4th
19:28 moritz r: say 'abcdef' ~~ m:4th/./
19:28 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«「d」␤␤»
19:28 TimToady obviously it's special-cased rather than being generalized
19:29 lue TimToady: I only repasted in case people missed it the first time :)
19:29 moritz ah, that's quotepair, not colonpair, parsing it
19:29 moritz r: say 'abcdef' ~~ m:4x/./
19:29 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«False␤»
19:29 moritz r: say 'abcdef' ~~ m:1i/A/
19:29 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«「a」␤␤»
19:29 TimToady it is a restricted case, since we allow only () for brackets in patterns
19:30 TimToady std: :4th;  # but this has been here for ages
19:30 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
19:31 lue r: my $a = "ABA"; say $a ~~ s:2st/A/C/;
19:31 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:31 lue r: my $a = "ABA"; $a ~~ s:2st/A/C/ say $a;
19:31 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/RbA9HdB3k6â�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/RbA9HdB3k6:1â�¤------> [32mmy $a = "ABA"; $a ~~ s:2st/A/C/ [33mâ��[31msay $a;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤    â€¦Â»
19:31 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/pUYW48d5t2â�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/pUYW48d5t2:1â�¤------> [32mmy $a = "ABA"; $a ~~ s:2st/A/C/ [33mâ��[31msay $a;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤ …»
19:31 lue r: my $a = "ABA"; $a ~~ s:2st/A/C/; say $a;
19:31 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«ABC␤»
19:36 TimToady !($foo.bar() :adv) # applies to bar()   <-- I'd say, applies to .bar()
19:36 TimToady since it's a postfix really
19:37 TimToady std: 1 || 2 ^^ 3
19:37 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�"||" and "^^" are non-associative and require parens at /tmp/ZMLnNQlvzV line 1:�------> [32m1 || 2 ^^ [33m�[31m3[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
19:37 TimToady r: 1 || 2 ^^ 3
19:37 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de, rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: ( no output )
19:37 TimToady that's a bug
19:38 TimToady so you shouldn't use it for an example
19:38 * lue should read the precedence table more closely it seems
19:38 TimToady you probably just want something left associative there
19:38 TimToady since ** is illustrating the right associative
19:39 araujo joined #perl6
19:39 TimToady or use a list associative with the same operator
19:39 TimToady std: 1 || 2 || 3
19:39 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
19:40 TimToady though I'm not sure we have nailed down the semantics of that
19:40 TimToady since it's really a variadic function, infix:<||>(*@args, :adverb)
19:40 TimToady so it should probably be taken as applying on the list level, not the final op
19:41 lue TimToady: fixed the issues in that block of examples.
19:42 jnap joined #perl6
19:43 TimToady 1 || 2 and 3 :adv # error, tries to apply to 'and'  <-- doesn't try to apply to the 'and' really, tries to apply to 3
19:44 TimToady and we don't catch application of adverbs to terms right now
19:44 TimToady std: 4 :foo
19:44 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
19:44 TimToady even std doesn't check that yet
19:45 benabik Rakudo somewhat does.
19:45 benabik r: 3 :adv
19:45 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Vnlwy5uDDzâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/Vnlwy5uDDz:1â�¤------> [32m3 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
19:45 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/3tKROfp16hâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/3tKROfp16h:1â�¤------> [32m3 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
19:46 TimToady r: 1 || 2 and 3 :adv
19:46 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/2rZbzJFJk7â�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/2rZbzJFJk7:1â�¤------> [32m1 || 2 and 3 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
19:46 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/wzYY8wlZ8xâ�¤You can't adverb thatâ�¤at /tmp/wzYY8wlZ8x:1â�¤------> [32m1 || 2 and 3 :adv[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        pair valueâ�¤Â»
19:46 TimToady that's LTA unless it says what "that" is
19:47 benabik Well, yes.
19:48 TimToady and it should say '3', not 'and'  :)
19:52 lue got it, let me know if the new comment is sufficiently descriptive.
19:52 TimToady :!s doesn't interpolate scalars, and you have it as sigils
19:53 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:54 lue whoops, I had a feeling I'd mess that up once while writing that part :)
19:55 TimToady you might explain that we restrict :nth(5) to parens because we want to be able to use any other brackets as the choose-your-own quotes
19:56 TimToady s/named functions/named arguments/
19:57 TimToady and I'd ss/create some named adverbs/declare some named parameters/
20:00 lue Alright, got those things.
20:01 PerlJam :th(4) really is :nth(4), right?  (missing the "n")
20:01 lue r: say q:c(4)   # whoops, rakudo
20:01 lue PerlJam: :nth(4) is the long way of saying :4nth :)
20:01 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:01 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«␤»
20:01 TimToady Bool already works in MAIN to require a boolean value
20:01 moritz PerlJam: :4th is really th => 4
20:02 Rotwang joined #perl6
20:02 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:02 lue Rakudo should not let me not have delimiters right? Unless std is mistaken there :)
20:02 PerlJam oh, I see.  I wasn't paying close enough attention
20:04 TimToady std: say q:c(4)
20:04 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�No delimiter found at /tmp/fdPB8BVDEL line 1 (EOF):�------> [32msay q:c(4)[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 124m�»
20:04 TimToady yes, STD has that right
20:05 lue r: say qq
20:05 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/c_1dsFEPOTâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    qq used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
20:05 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/7ikldLJRyrâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    qq used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
20:05 TimToady std: say q:c(4)  # comment
20:05 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤No delimiter found at /tmp/jqZ9Sf_iy9 line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32msay q:c(4)  # comment[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 124mâ�¤Â»
20:05 lue r: say qq:c
20:05 TimToady std: say q:c(4)  # comment #
20:05 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:05 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«␤»
20:05 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤No delimiter found at /tmp/7pSFU45kXy line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32msay q:c(4)  # comment #[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 124mâ�¤Â»
20:05 beastd joined #perl6
20:06 TimToady # not allowed as delims anyway
20:08 PerlJam lue++  I like it, but the ending seemed weird.  The paragraph that talks about MAIN seemed to forget that it was in an article about adverbs.  Any why mention multi subs in the last paragraph?
20:09 lue PerlJam: I'm terrible at conclusions :)
20:11 * PerlJam notes not to make inferences around lue  ;)
20:11 lue Why not?
20:12 PerlJam Now I can't tell if that's deadpan or an honest question. :)
20:12 lue If you're referencing the cookies, then it's all joke :)
20:19 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:21 lue PerlJam: replaced the conclusion
20:22 PerlJam lue++ "joyously"!
20:24 lue If there are no outstanding issues left, I'll start wordpress-ifying
20:25 TimToady looks good to me
20:27 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:28 Mouq joined #perl6
20:29 japhb jnthn: Is my floating point <-> unsigned integer reinterpretation opcode request still on your radar for soonish?  If not, I'll probably port http://blog.factual.com/the-flotsam-pro​ject-insanely-fast-floating-point-numbe​r-serialization-for-java-and-javascript , which in pure Perl 6 will be ... not insanely fast anymore.  :-)
20:39 japhb It's sad that this is even necessary in so many languages, as it is literally 2 assembly language ops, but so damned few languages have true union (overlaid memory) support, even the ones that call themselves system programming languages.
20:43 lue The advent's wordpress theme really needs to be one that can handle 80-char lines of monospace :/
20:50 denis_boyun__ joined #perl6
20:51 dwarring joined #perl6
20:56 lue Here's the wordpress preview, for you to check: http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/?p=1987&amp;preview=true
20:56 * lue hopes he didn't miss an occurrence or two of the gag
20:58 moritz lue: IMHO it's worth noting that :4th actually doesn't work in rakudo, because usually all advent calendar code runs on current rakudo
20:58 moritz same for the "stacked" adverbs
20:58 moritz or maybe leave 'em out
20:59 FROGGS phew, here the preview of my post: http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/?p=1981&amp;preview=true
20:59 moritz lue++ # advent post
20:59 lue moritz: I prefer talking about the hypothetical Perfect Implementation. But I'll add those disclaimers in.
20:59 xinming joined #perl6
21:01 lue r: foo(:$a, :$b) { say "OK $a $b" }; foo(:a :b); foo() :a :b;
21:01 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/ALqjSkgih5�Variable '$a' is not declared�at /tmp/ALqjSkgih5:1�------> [32mfoo(:$a[33m�[31m, :$b) { say "OK $a $b" }; foo(:a :b); f[0m�»
21:01 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/qxhvCL_Hdr�Variable '$a' is not declared�at /tmp/qxhvCL_Hdr:1�------> [32mfoo(:$a[33m�[31m, :$b) { say "OK $a $b" }; foo(:a :b); f[0m�»
21:01 [Coke] "alternately"
21:01 lue r: sub foo(:$a, :$b) { say "OK $a $b" }; foo(:a :b); foo() :a :b;
21:01 camelia rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in sub foo at /tmp/TApyABb8hh:1␤␤OK True ␤OK True True␤»
21:01 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤OK True ␤OK True True␤»
21:01 moritz lue: well, Perl 6 long had a reputation as vapourware. Talking about the hypothetical perfect implementation is part of the reason.
21:02 lue moritz: Understood. I just don't want to lose descriptiveness on a feature just because "it doesn't work yet". I prefer the disclaimers over leaving it out.
21:02 moritz and the best counter is 1) showing working code 2) build cool stuff in Perl 6
21:04 [Coke] day 11: dristributions
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: 90d26ea | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (7 files):
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: add an early form of the CompUnitRepo implementation
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven:
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: This is something to play with, and I expect that about
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: 80% of this will land in nom. JVM backend and windows
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: support deserves more love than it got.
21:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/90d26eaef3
21:05 [Coke] day 11: is grafics britlish?
21:06 [Coke] also: crap. if 9, 10, and 11 are already done, that means I'm late.
21:06 FROGGS wut?
21:06 [Coke] I'm used to "graphics"
21:06 FROGGS k
21:06 FROGGS will fix
21:06 [Coke] but I'z American.
21:07 * lue will feel silly if he forgot emphasize an adverb in the post, but aside from that...
21:07 lue ...post scheduled!
21:08 [Coke] lue: 16:01 < [Coke]> "alternately"
21:08 lue I noticed that, but didn't understand what that meant.
21:09 stevan_ joined #perl6
21:09 [Coke] it's an adverb. in your post.
21:10 lue ah, I see it now. Wow, that wasn't even a non-ly adverb, geez! :) [note that the quoted "oddly" a couple paragraphs down is purposely not emph'd, because I'm not really using it in an adverbly way.]
21:14 stevan_ joined #perl6
21:16 hoelzro how does CORE.setting go about detecting that src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp is out of date?
21:16 hoelzro I'm going to try and see if I can fool it.
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: 1abeae8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | META.info:
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: added "provides" section
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/1abeae8107
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: be39969 | (Tobias Leich)++ | bootstrap.pl:
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: local lib dir must be in order after installed lib dir
21:16 dalek panda/eleven:
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: To be compliant with older rakudo's I think we need both ways.
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/be39969e75
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: 7a7f55f | (Tobias Leich)++ | projects.json.bootstrap:
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: added "provides" section
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/7a7f55f1be
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: b4fbf94 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda (2 files):
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: use the CompUnitRepo.install method if available
21:16 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/b4fbf9425e
21:17 lue FROGGS: "(One glitch might be the too less windows testing from my side.)" --> I don't think you're using the right "too" there.
21:18 FROGGS hoelzro: IIRC it stores timestamps or so in the pir, you should see it in CORE.setting.pir
21:18 hoelzro I don't think it's timestamp-based; I'm pretty sure I tried a touch on the file and it still worked
21:18 * hoelzro tries
21:18 FROGGS lue: I guess I can just strip that "too", right?
21:18 hoelzro but thanks for the input, FROGGS =)
21:19 FROGGS hoelzro: can be a sha1 too
21:19 hoelzro that would be my guess
21:19 lue FROGGS: I'm parsing that as  (One glitch might be two, without windows testing from my side.)  so you know.
21:20 FROGGS it should read as "One glitch might be not enough windows testing from my side."
21:21 lue Ah, makes sense. So (One glitch might be just less windows testing from my side.)
21:22 FROGGS lue:++ # thanks
21:24 lue Couple more things: Perhaps title the post "Using Modules", since it's not just about versioning
21:24 FROGGS hmmm, I need to install/create this libraries.cfg in the rakudo/eleven branch... I might do that tomorrow
21:24 FROGGS lue: but it is like about
21:24 FROGGS hmmm
21:25 lue If you have your reasons for the title, by all means keep it :)
21:26 FROGGS I'll muse about it :o)
21:26 lue The last thing: if the eleven branches are the focus of the post (which it seems they are), then introducing the branches earlier (just before the "First Crux" header or nearby) might help give some context to the subjunctive things coming up.
21:26 lue (If they're not the focus, ignore that :D)
21:26 lue FROGGS++ for the post, I should say by now :)
21:27 FROGGS they are if somebody wants to try stuff... (at least as long as these branches exist)
21:27 FROGGS thanks :o)
21:27 lue gerne.
21:27 FROGGS hehe
21:28 lue .oO("You're welcome" is way too wordy, esp. when someone says "Thanks" instead of "Thank you")
21:28 lizmat lue++ for a chewy blogpost
21:29 FROGGS "yw" would work
21:29 lue :)
21:29 lizmat makes me wonder whether I should elaborate on adverbs on hash/array slices in a separate blogpost
21:30 lue FROGGS: only in counterpart to "ty". English hasn't a short form of "You're welcome" :/ . I can't even think of _how_ to shorten it, except borrow "gerne" from our ancestral language :)
21:31 xinming_ joined #perl6
21:31 lue lizmat: specific areas of adverb usage in Perl 6 are worthwhile methinks. Explaining slice adverbs would focus on the power of slicing more than the adverbs anyhow :)
21:32 lizmat indeed
21:32 SevenWolf joined #perl6
21:34 hoelzro I should know better than to question FROGGS
21:34 hoelzro FROGGS: you were totally right; it was a timestamp
21:34 hoelzro which makes my life easier, I think!
21:34 dalek mu: 0cb92bd | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | misc/perl6advent-2013/schedule:
21:34 dalek mu: Claim Day 13 - Slicing with adverbs, the only way!
21:34 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/0cb92bdef1
21:35 FROGGS *g*
21:37 lue I think the TOC needs to make noticeable now the adverbial chain of posts :)
21:39 hoelzro :topic<Welcome to Perl 6!>
21:39 FROGGS hoelzro: the problem is that the subs in a pir file get timestamps in their id too, and if another cu refers to that sub, it refers to it by id
21:39 hoelzro (actually, I don't think that does what I think =/)
21:39 hoelzro grrrr
21:40 FROGGS ... which would horribly explode then when a dependency get recompiled
21:40 hoelzro yeah
21:40 hoelzro hmm
21:40 hoelzro what if
21:40 FROGGS that is what I remember from jnthn++ when he talked about bounded serialization
21:40 hoelzro after I edit the file
21:40 hoelzro I touch the file with the old timestamp, *then* compile
21:40 hoelzro the subs should remain the same, yes?
21:40 FROGGS I dunno
21:40 hoelzro hehe
21:41 hoelzro time for some fun >:)
21:42 lizmat the perl6advent TOC needs to be manually updated: I've just added Carl's day 9
21:44 lizmat FROGGS: I will read your post more thoroughly tomorrow
21:44 FROGGS lizmat: cool :o)
21:49 FROGGS "the only way!" lol
21:49 FROGGS lizmat++
21:49 lizmat well, since .exists and .delete are now deprecated  :-)
21:55 jercos Do signatures have any options for duck typing on objects beyond breaking out a pair-list into named parameters? I don't have a use case, but say you wanted to functionally replicate having a Rational parameter, and accept any object at all, so long as it has .numerator and .denominator, is that supported, desired, reviled, reason to be cast down into the pit of pythonites, etc.?
21:59 jnthn where .can(all(<numerator dominator>)) # as a constraint type
21:59 jercos Oh, heh, that makes sense.
21:59 FROGGS hi jnthn
21:59 jercos Thanks :)
22:00 dalek mu: 51f9bcd | (Tobias Leich)++ | misc/perl6advent-2013/schedule:
22:00 dalek mu: fixed title, lue++
22:00 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/51f9bcd01b
22:02 jnthn o/ FROGGS
22:02 jnthn vilnius++ is a nice place to be for a conference :)
22:02 hoelzro hmm
22:03 hoelzro I can't figure out how to convince CORE.setting that Grammar/Actions are fine.
22:18 lizmat r: my %a; for %a{*}:kv -> $k, $v { }
22:18 dalek rakudo/eleven: ddd3ab4 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/core_epilogue.pm:
22:18 dalek rakudo/eleven: create libraries.cfg if missing
22:18 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ddd3ab45d3
22:18 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7291␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7127␤  in method gimme at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7545␤  in block  at /tmp/gwFDkj2XZ0:1␤  in any eval at gen/jv…»
22:18 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in block  at /tmp/Bm_BlTWiyZ:1␤  in any  at /tmp/Bm_BlTWiyZ:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1146␤  in any eval at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1133␤  in any evalfiles a…»
22:19 lizmat r: my @a; for @a[*]:kv -> $k, $v { }
22:19 camelia rakudo-jvm 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7291␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7127␤  in method gimme at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7545␤  in block  at /tmp/QM8ur99QOO:1␤  in any eval at gen/jv…»
22:19 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0bf3de: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in block  at /tmp/zj2EDMiYai:1␤  in any  at /tmp/zj2EDMiYai:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1146␤  in any eval at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1133␤  in any evalfiles a…»
22:19 * lizmat submits rakudobug
22:23 jnthn japhb: I've recently been quite overloaded with stuff. I'd like to sort that out for you; please don't hesitate to remind me, especially in Jan when I'll have more time again :)
22:26 lizmat #120739 for those interested, I will look at this tomorrow
22:26 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=120739
22:27 FROGGS and I will finally dig deep into v5 again the next days
22:27 lizmat FROGGS++  we need options!  :-)
22:28 enikar left #perl6
22:33 lizmat gnight #perl6!
22:33 FROGGS gnight lizmat
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23:13 jnthn sleep &
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