Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-12-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:10 BenGoldberg r: my @a := 1, { ($^a+1) / $^a } ... *; .say for @a[92]
00:10 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«1.618033988749894848205␤»
00:10 BenGoldberg r: my @a := 1, { ($^a+1) / $^a } ... *; .say for @a[93]
00:10 camelia rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«1.618033988749895␤»
00:10 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«1.6180339887499␤»
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00:15 webchat_masak my post: https://gist.github.com/masak/7966845
00:15 webchat_masak (advent post)
00:15 webchat_masak again, as stated, I will publish it tomorrow. submitting it for review now, and going to bed.
00:15 webchat_masak 'night, #perl6
00:23 raydiak http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/1999/AGraphHCI/SMAG/footnode.html#foot238
00:23 raydiak ^ anyone feel like factoring that for me real quick? :)
00:28 lue raydiak: perhaps, but I either have to discover how tell Maxima to interpret implied multiplication or insert the * symbols. :)
00:29 jnthn raydiak: heh, I think I mighta taken that course...or maybe only the second year one by the same lecturer... :)
00:29 jnthn Sadly, I think I forgot it all...
00:29 colomon lue: sounds like you might need… a grammar!
00:33 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> ($a, $b) { $b, $a }; say [oof] 1..9; # good
00:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1␤»
00:33 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) { @a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9 # confused
00:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«9 7 5 3 1 2 4 6 8␤»
00:35 BenGoldberg Why does the .reverse version produce that odd order?
00:35 BenGoldberg (Or, alternativly, if that's *
00:35 BenGoldberg if that's right, then why does the $b, $a produces such a normal looking order?)
00:36 jnthn r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) is assoc('list') { @a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9
00:36 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1␤»
00:36 lue r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) { @a.reverse }; say 1 oof 2 oof 3 oof 4 oof 5 oof 6 oof 7 oof 8 oof 9;
00:36 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«9 7 5 3 1 2 4 6 8␤»
00:37 colomon jnthn++
00:37 lue heh, it's fun trying to visualize what happens there, without list assoc :)
00:37 colomon r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) { say :@a.perl; @a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9 # confused
00:37 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«"a" => [1, 2]␤"a" => [2, 1, 3]␤"a" => [3, 1, 2, 4]␤"a" => [4, 2, 1, 3, 5]␤"a" => [5, 3, 1, 2, 4, 6]␤"a" => [6, 4, 2, 1, 3, 5, 7]␤"a" => [7, 5, 3, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8]␤"a" => [8, 6, 4, 2, 1, 3, 5, 7, 9]␤9 7 5 3 1 2 4 6 8␤»
00:38 BenGoldberg Ahh, I see! :)
00:39 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) is assoc('list') { say :@a.perl @a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9
00:39 camelia rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/2eidhXO_FSâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/2eidhXO_FS:1â�¤------> [32m> (*@a) is assoc('list') { say :@a.perl [33mâ��[31m@a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method ar…»
00:39 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/zpumwE9aGCâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/zpumwE9aGC:1â�¤------> [32m> (*@a) is assoc('list') { say :@a.perl [33mâ��[31m@a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method…»
00:39 colomon BenGoldberg: if it's list assoc, the entire list passed to [oof] is sent all at once
00:40 colomon (and only once)
00:40 BenGoldberg Got it.  Is , (comma) list assoc?
00:41 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) is assoc('list') { say :@a; @a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9
00:41 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«␤9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1␤»
00:41 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> (*@a) is assoc('list') { say :@a.perl; @a.reverse }; say [oof] 1..9
00:41 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«"a" => [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]␤9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1␤»
00:41 colomon forgot the .perl
00:41 raydiak jnthn: you have a leg up on me, then...I didn't graduate high school :)
00:42 colomon BenGoldberg: I dunno about comma operator.  I think of it as list assoc, but the spec doesn't seem to mention it.  (Compare http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#Comma_operator_precedence to http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#List_infix_precedence )
00:43 colomon actually, looking again, I don't think the comma operator can be.
00:46 lue preflex: tell tadzik I'm having trouble with panda:  https://gist.github.com/lue/01c2f45754f97f98460a  I don't know why this is :(
00:46 preflex Consider it noted.
00:52 lue preflex: tell masak I left some comments on your advent gist.
00:52 preflex Consider it noted.
00:52 lue masak++ for the post :)
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01:09 jnthn sleep &
01:27 dwarring r: grammar G {rule TOP {<ident> {say $<ident>}}}; G.parse("hi")
01:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«「hi」␤␤»
01:27 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
01:30 dwarring r: grammar G {rule TOP {<ident> {say $/}}}; G.parse("hi")
01:30 camelia rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
01:30 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«「hi」␤ ident => 「hi」␤␤»
01:31 dwarring r: grammar G {rule TOP {(<ident>) {say $0}}}; G.parse("hi")
01:31 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«「hi」␤ ident => 「hi」␤␤»
01:31 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
01:33 dwarring is rakudo-parrot 'right' here?
01:34 dwarring (in the above three examples)
01:42 [Coke] woolfy: I think lizmat picked that topic, actually. Just along for the ride, me.
01:43 dalek perl6-roast-data: 919435a | coke++ | / (6 files):
01:43 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
01:43 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/919435a687
01:48 dalek perl6-roast-data: d0b5ef6 | coke++ | bin/rakudo.moar.sh:
01:48 dalek perl6-roast-data: get ./perl6 so we can run tests
01:48 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/d0b5ef62d2
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02:47 * dwarring has looked at roast - thinks it may need some test cases for the above
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03:08 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:39 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<L> (*@a) is assoc('list') { @a }; say [L] 1..10
03:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
03:39 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<L> (*@a) is assoc('list') { @a }; say [RL] 1..10
03:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 10 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16523␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16630␤  in block  at /tmp/dv2sL_OiUl:1␤  in any  at /tmp/dv2sL_OiUl:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/…»
03:39 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 10 but expected 2␤  in block  at /tmp/War5E7NecT:1␤  in any eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1086␤  in any evalfiles at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1292␤  in any command_eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:119…»
03:40 BenGoldberg Apparently you can't do [R<foo>] where <foo> is assoc('list')...
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04:32 lue r: sub infix:<☃> (*@a) is assoc('list') { @a }; say [R☃] 1..10
04:32 camelia rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 10 but expected 2␤  in block  at /tmp/Q_e_9gLmzV:1␤  in any eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1086␤  in any evalfiles at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1292␤  in any command_eval at gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:119…»
04:32 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 10 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16523␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16630␤  in block  at /tmp/wuSLkaZwul:1␤  in any  at /tmp/wuSLkaZwul:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/…»
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06:36 moritz timotimo: https://gist.github.com/moritz/2375e30d8c3bf35bcf04
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08:11 woolfy Coke: could well be that lizmat picket the topic.  You wrote the thing.  Nice work.  Useful.  Thanks!
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08:32 dwarring .tell pmurias just your your question about PDF::Grammar. In it's present form its a a grab-bag of parsing rules for different PDF elements. Doesn't handle compression, which happens with most real world PDFs
08:33 dalek roast: 31bff3d | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | S05-grammar/action-stubs.t:
08:33 dalek roast: test for availability of $/ etc within tokens (fudged on jvm)
08:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/31bff3d16c
08:34 dwarring ^ thats for the stuff I was trying out earlier
08:35 dwarring r: grammar G {rule TOP {<ident> {say $<ident>}}}; G.parse("hi")
08:35 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«「hi」␤␤»
08:35 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
08:35 dwarring I've looked the the spec again and thinking that it's a nyi in jvm
08:36 FROGGS yeah, that needs fixing
08:45 woolfy masak++  for nice advent post...  I've sent you a couple of comments, I found some typos
08:54 masak woolfy: nice, thank you.
08:54 preflex masak: you have 1 new message. '/msg preflex messages' to read it.
08:54 masak preflex: messages
08:54 preflex lue said 8 hours, 2 minutes and 6 seconds ago: I left some comments on your advent gist.
08:54 masak \o/
08:56 diakopter masak: wb :)
08:56 masak lue: all fixed; thank you.
08:56 masak raiph: all fixed; thank you.
08:58 woolfy masak++
08:58 masak woolfy: all fixed; thank you.
08:59 masak need to breakfast over here -- after that I'll do the conversion into Wordpress, and publish le post.
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09:16 * dwarring looks at the advent brainstorming list "perl resources". there's a lot of good stuff out there that help me get going: specs, roast, perl6-examples, irc (live and logs), rossetta code, rakudo source (mostly written in Perl 6), doc.perl6.org, perl6 modules. and of-course the advent calendar
09:22 diakopter is there a comprehensive list of all Perl 6 blog posts?  with ones that are bitrotteng/out-of-date clearly marked? that would be very helpful to someone trying to learn from blog posts
09:23 xinming joined #perl6
09:24 dwarring good question. didn't mention http://6guts.wordpress.com/ for a start
09:29 * dwarring also uses reddit some times
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10:46 masak ok, back.
10:46 masak conversion to Wordpress begins.
10:46 diakopter masak: howdy :)
10:50 masak diakopter: ahoj. :)
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10:53 masak (I categorized days 10, 11, 12, and 14 as "2013" on Wordpress)
10:57 masak post is live: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/day-15-numbers-and-ways-of-writing-them/
10:57 masak sorry about the delay :)
10:57 masak for future reference, here is how you can easily convert from (Github gist) Markdown into (Wordpress <p>-less) HTML:
10:58 masak $ pandoc -f markdown -t html foo.md > foo.html
10:58 masak $ perl6 -p -e 's/^\<p\>//; s[\<\/p\>] = "\n"; s[\<pre\>\<code\>] = "<pre>"; s[\<\/code\>\<\/pre\>] = "</pre>\n"' foo.html > foo.wordpress
11:00 masak lue++ # 'adverbly' post
11:01 masak I'm reading the part about adverbs and precedence, and I'm thinking that adverbs are probably just complicated enough for the average programmer not to grok them. :)
11:01 masak a bit like variant sigils in Perl 5.
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11:08 jnthn Thankfully, the only place the average programmer is likely to actually run into them is on a subscript, which I guess can be explained in a grokkable way.
11:21 moritz masak++ # advent post
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12:31 masak jnthn: that's a good point.
12:31 masak jnthn: fwiw, I believe they're actually fairly sane -- unless you think about the implementation too much ;)
12:49 jnthn Do Not Mention The Adverbs Implementation :P
13:04 FROGGS :P, indeed :o)
13:04 FROGGS :o() even
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13:24 moritz :P⊆ :NP
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14:28 * masak waves from a train o/
14:30 pecastro joined #perl6
14:31 nwc10 going anywhere interesting?
14:33 masak I'm going up to .se's city #2 to teach.
14:34 nwc10 it is left as an excercise to the reader, as to whether this is exciting? :-)
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14:38 jnthn Is rain exciting? :)
14:48 tadzik lucky it's not city #17 ;)
14:48 preflex tadzik: you have 1 new message. '/msg preflex messages' to read it.
14:48 tadzik what did I do :o
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14:49 tadzik oh, lue, I don't know why it is either :(
14:49 tadzik it happenened some time after shell/run started returning objects instead of numbers, now sometimes the process succeeds but rakudo gets a false value
14:50 tadzik I tried debugging it, no luck
14:51 masak nwc10: teaching is always a little exciting. but frankly I'm more excited by the prospect of doing my last five days of $work for the year, and going back home to @family.
14:56 rjbs Hm.  It's good train-riding weather here.
14:56 rjbs Sadly, America. So no trains.
14:58 census joined #perl6
14:58 census hi masak!  hi labster!  hi FROGGS!  long time no speak
15:05 masak census! \o/
15:05 masak rjbs: waitwait, the US has no trains?
15:05 masak rjbs: I'm sure I saw one in Back to the Future III.
15:06 census the US has trains masak unless i'm jumpng into the converstaion at a bad point
15:07 masak census: I like your sense of humility, and bravery in jumping into a discussion ;)
15:08 masak census: and no, it isn't a bad point.
15:08 census thanks masak :)
15:08 masak (and yes, I know you have trains) :P
15:08 census masak i figured you did :)
15:08 masak :D
15:09 masak census: how're you doing? made any population-wide statistical analyses lately?
15:09 census i'm about to!
15:09 census i'm lke moments away from it
15:09 census thanks for askign!
15:09 census i was workign on one project and it is goign horribly
15:09 census so i've tabled it for the moment and am doing another one
15:09 census all the same data set
15:10 masak nice. I think.
15:10 census this other one is working out much better so i am hoping to just finish it up quickly
15:10 census and then i'll just go back to the other one and finish it even though my results on it were not making sense
15:11 masak general notice: please everyone who wants to help, join #help-census. it's a joy, but I can't do it all alone :)
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15:12 census hahahaha
15:13 census yes census is a handful
15:13 masak it's a labor of love :)
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15:17 raydiak g'morning #perl6
15:18 masak raydiak! \o/
15:19 raydiak masak: either it's not 7 AM in your timezone, or you drink way too much coffee :)
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15:22 masak raydiak: definitely the former.
15:22 masak raydiak: I'm one of 'em Ur-opeans.
15:25 TimToady masak: you have a comment
15:25 FROGGS hi census
15:26 census long time no speak FROGGS!Q
15:26 FROGGS :o)
15:27 raydiak masak: Ah, that explains it. Local time for me is behind nearly the entire rest of the world. Which country?
15:28 masak TimToady: looking
15:28 jferrero joined #perl6
15:28 masak raydiak: .se
15:28 masak raydiak: IKEA, herring, Pirate Bay
15:29 jnthn ABBA :P
15:31 raydiak masak: What is it like in Sweden?
15:32 masak raydiak: generally? very nice and quiet and civilized. right now? dark and wet and spells of saffron.
15:32 masak smells*
15:34 census codl
15:34 census i imagine it is cold
15:35 raydiak masak: sounds like what I've heard elsewhere...I ought to visit some day; I'd love to experience that
15:37 raydiak masak: as for where I am, the nature is beautiful, but major cities where I've lived are not peaceful, and "civilized" is stretching it, IMHO :)
15:37 masak TimToady: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/day-15-numbers-and-ways-of-writing-them/#comment-3482
15:38 masak census: it's cold if you're used to Saudi Arabia. not so cold if you're used to England.
15:38 * [Coke] looks up from shoveling snow. What?
15:38 masak raydiak: if you're ever in the region, stop by and we'll have a beverage of your choice.
15:39 jferrero joined #perl6
15:40 jnthn [Coke]: All our snow melted already :(
15:41 raydiak masak: That's very kind, thanks for the offer! I'll take you up on it if I ever manage to escape the US
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15:43 raydiak heh, google says it's 5 F degrees warmer in stockholm than here atm
15:44 timotimo moritz: i'm not sure if these failures from regex_optimizer are all legit :\
15:44 timotimo but i'll look into it, thanks!
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15:45 FROGGS p: multi P5Numeric(''  \SELF) is export { '' }; say P5Numeric("") # I love that mmd! it makes it easy to implement absurdity :o)
15:45 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959: OUTPUT«␤»
15:46 FROGGS TimToady++ and jnthn++ and (whoever who is involved)++
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15:53 timotimo moritz: in fact, the roll.t test succeeds locally; must be a bad assumption, since it's about random seeds giving different values: ok 40 - different results due to random random-number seed
15:54 timotimo oh, of course!
15:54 timotimo my local regex_optimizer was recently rebased, the remote one wasn't
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15:55 jnthn train &
15:57 * masak .oO( because we work with training )
15:57 FROGGS >.<
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16:03 timotimo moritz: all the failures that are extra in your gist are non-failures locally for me, but i can't tell if there are no new failures on jvm when rebasing regex_optimizer. i'll push the new version of that branch; can you re-run the tests?
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16:06 masak timotimo: usually when I rebase locally, I don't push to the same branch remotely, as that would require a push --force.
16:06 masak timotimo: (don't know if I got your use case exactly, but sounds like that one.)
16:07 timotimo right. i'll push to r-regex-optimizer :)
16:07 masak timotimo: so I tend to rename it both locally and remotely from e.g. macros to macros2
16:07 masak that works too.
16:07 timotimo there we go
16:07 dalek rakudo/r-regex_optimizer: a1f1ec5 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
16:07 dalek rakudo/r-regex_optimizer: run the QRegex optimizer from rakudo's optimizer.
16:07 dalek rakudo/r-regex_optimizer: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a1f1ec5490
16:07 timotimo even rebased it further into new nom
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16:26 woolfy Ooh, nice, I know about the use of i in Perl 6, did not realise that Perl 6 therefore has a Complex variable type
16:26 woolfy ( http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/day-15-numbers-and-ways-of-writing-them/#comment-3482 )
16:26 timotimo well, it kind of has to, in order to represent it properly :)
16:26 woolfy So Inf is a constant in Perl 6.  But Googol isnt?
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16:27 woolfy (I saw in masak's advent blog define $googol but you could make Googol a constant just like Inf.  Would be cool too.
16:27 woolfy )
16:29 woolfy Oh, lizmat just tells me you had a discussion about that recently and that I should read the backlog...  sorry for re-opening fresh wounds...  :-)
16:29 timotimo yeah, you could
16:29 timotimo r: constant googol := eval '1' ~ '0' x 100; say googol;
16:29 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
16:29 woolfy timotimo++
16:35 raydiak you could spell it as "1e100", too
16:37 timotimo that wouldn't be an integer then
16:37 timotimo or would it?
16:37 timotimo r: say (1e100).WHAT
16:37 raydiak ah, didn't think of that
16:37 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
16:37 timotimo r: constant googol := eval '1' ~ '0' x 100; say googol.WHAT;
16:38 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
16:38 raydiak r: constant googol := 1e100.Int; say googol.WHAT;
16:38 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
16:46 raydiak r: say (1.Int / 2.Int)
16:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 106959, rakudo-jvm 106959: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
16:48 raydiak should numeric constants perhaps automatically be integers if they don't have a fractional part?
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17:18 moritz no: We have very clear rules of which literals produce what types
17:18 moritz and since for example Num and Int arithmetic produce different results, it must be possible to write an integral Num
17:19 timotimo right
17:19 timotimo moritz: ack/nak on running the jvm spectests on r-regex_optimizer?
17:20 moritz timotimo: I'll start another spectest run
17:20 timotimo thank you! :)
17:26 BenGoldberg Speaking of regex optimization ... will there be something like perl5's 'study' operator, or is that for the distanct future?
17:26 timotimo please explain what that does to me? i never did any perl5
17:28 BenGoldberg It did some analysis of a string, so that future regex matches on that string ran faster.
17:28 timotimo ah, ok
17:28 timotimo sounds like a fun project
17:28 timotimo but probably for much later :)
17:31 BenGoldberg distant future, then :)
17:32 timotimo well, it really depends; rakudo development has a few people who are not focusing their efforts optimally (me, for example)
17:32 timotimo optimally, we would always be doing the most pressing bottleneck and the most interesting feature, but I tend to go around looking for fun optimizations to do and lacking features that bother me directly
17:33 moritz timotimo: now I get "nqp-j is too old"
17:34 timotimo er, whoops. i think you should be able to just rebase the nqp branch on current master
17:34 moritz I can also locally merge the nqp branch into master
17:34 timotimo sure
17:36 * moritz does, and recompiles NQP
17:36 moritz timotimo: should I do the same for the rakudo branch?
17:37 timotimo i'm trying it with a rebase, too
17:37 timotimo the rakudo branch is already rebased on newest nom, but you should just be able to merge nom into the old version of that branch
17:37 timotimo it's just a two-line change or something
17:40 TimToady masak: you have another comment :)
17:41 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
17:41 masak TimToady: replying to it now :)
17:42 * TimToady remembers a former girlfriend almost taking his head off after he used the term "shanghai
17:43 TimToady so he doesn't use the verb form of that anymore...
17:44 masak strange.
17:44 masak TimToady: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/day-15-numbers-and-ways-of-writing-them/#comment-3484
17:44 TimToady well, she was half Chinese :)
17:44 moritz masak++
17:45 masak by the way, "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people" is inherently amusing to me. but don't tell the Chinese people that.
17:46 masak see also http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3425
17:49 colomon joined #perl6
17:53 TimToady "This facility contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer."
17:54 Mouq joined #perl6
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18:16 ajr_ Everything known to the State of California causes cancer.
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18:54 moritz timotimo: https://gist.github.com/moritz/2375e30d8c3bf35bcf04#file-r-regex_optimizer-log looks pretty good
18:56 timotimo i'm glad. do you think i should merge?
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19:04 timotimo should probably rather merge now and see if there's fallout than merge the day before the release again :)
19:09 moritz timotimo: +1
19:11 colomon joined #perl6
19:13 dalek nqp: e178ee3 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/ (2 files):
19:13 dalek nqp: teach parrot and jvm about zerowidth literals
19:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e178ee3104
19:13 dalek nqp: 681a9b8 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Actions.nqp:
19:13 dalek nqp: first draft of a before-assertion simplifier.
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19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: a1f1ec5 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: run the QRegex optimizer from rakudo's optimizer.
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a1f1ec5490
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: e542a0c | (Timo Paulssen)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: bump NQP revision to get the regex optimizer.
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e542a0c52c
19:16 daxim joined #perl6
19:20 Mouq timotimo++
19:28 timotimo :)
19:29 16WABQYYH joined #perl6
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19:53 masak nwc10++ # doing cool stuff with the moar GC
19:57 colomon joined #perl6
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20:09 jnthn Yay, there's now a way to get to Gothenburg that doesn't suck.
20:10 moritz Helicopter? :-)
20:10 FROGGS ó.ò
20:11 jnthn No, a new train service that's got comfortable seats, wifi, coffee and does the journey in half an hour less time.
20:13 Mouq joined #perl6
20:18 masak I can attest to its non-suckiness.
20:21 jeff_s1 joined #perl6
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20:29 lue hello world o/
20:29 lue tadzik: really? If shell/run is the issue, perhaps I have a solution... /me tries something
20:31 lue (unfortunately it requires being platform specific, so I'm testing the version that'll work for me :P)
20:35 masak lue++ # S15 work
20:36 lue masak: still quite a bit to do, but I feel like Pod6-ifying our specs at the moment :)
20:37 lue perl6++  making ?qx'echo $?' do the right thing.
20:37 lue eh... wait. nevermind :P
20:37 FROGGS hehe
20:39 lue tadzik: my idea is that maybe, just maybe, using qqx// will fix the issue.
20:39 * moritz runs  ./perl6-m -e 'say "Hello World"'  for the first time
20:39 lue The "fails when works fine" thing for shell/run may seem random, but its occurrences are... strangely consistent.
20:40 lue moritz: \o/ now I want to try compiling perl6-m :)
20:40 masak me too!
20:40 moritz compiling Test.pm6 still fails, but who needs tests anyway? :-)
20:42 moritz Unhandled exception: Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Uninstantiable, cs = 0)
20:42 moritz why does that remind me of "I will not buy this record, it is scratched"? :-)
20:47 FROGGS moritz++
20:47 lue gaah, using qqx seemed to have made it worse! :(
20:49 moritz with qqx it'll try to interpolate the $? or some parts of it in perl code
20:49 lue moritz: I'm retrying with "&& echo \$?" after the build command, see how it goes.
21:02 lue uhh... "Error executing process: Cannot allocate memory"
21:03 lue tadzik: ^^^ this comes from replacing the shell command with  ?qqx"perl6 --target=pir --output=blib/lib/Panda/Project.pir lib/Panda/Project.pm && echo \$?"
21:04 tadzik :o
21:04 tadzik did our memory usage strangely grow recently?
21:05 lue tadzik: I will say that the => fetching panda step takes much longer than the other => fetching stages, from what I've perceived.
21:07 tadzik 'cos panda is much bigger :P
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21:08 lue tadzik: apparently, replacing that line in my modifications to the qqx// thing I just pasted turned all my previous "False" results with "Error executing process: Cannot allocate memory". Which might be helpful.
21:09 lue (somehow, rakudo(-parrot?) is having issues with allocating memory.)
21:09 denis_boyun joined #perl6
21:10 lue (the backtrace only mentions bin/panda (which catches the error) and rakudo's source files, btw.)
21:11 jnthn lue: Easiest thing is to grep for that message
21:11 lue jnthn: hey, I just typed ack -u in the panda repo :)
21:12 lue O.O    $ ack -u 'Cannot allocate' ../rakudo
21:12 lue $
21:12 jnthn ack -u too :P
21:12 jnthn Try in nqp
21:13 jnthn Also for "Error executing"
21:14 lue Um... 'Cannot allocate' isn't in panda/ or rakudo/ or nqp/ or parrot/ . Lemme try searching other parts of the error.
21:14 * lue would use -i to find more results, except he doesn't think error message should be transforming their casings :)
21:15 lue $ ack -u 'Error executing' ../parrot
21:15 lue ../parrot/src/platform/generic/exec.c
21:15 lue 289:        "Error executing process: %s", strerror(errno));
21:16 lue I wonder if shell/run is experiencing the same issue, or if this is a result of using qqx// ...
21:16 FROGGS lue: shell/run is implemented in nqp in contrast to qx/qqx
21:17 lue FROGGS: unless you're saying qx is implemented in parrot, they could still share the same cause.
21:18 FROGGS lue: see rakudo/src/core/control.pm and look for QX
21:19 colomon joined #perl6
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21:24 * lue still thinks there could be a parrot underpinning to this mess.
21:25 timotimo underpinning for the fjords?
21:29 timotimo i think i'll write a short bit on the regex optimizer branch into the changelog
21:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 67fcb5f | (Timo Paulssen)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
21:32 dalek rakudo/nom: put regex optimizer changes in the changelog
21:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/67fcb5f64e
21:34 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
21:35 lue I really, really can't wait for perl6-m to get in working order. I'm getting tired of parrot.
21:35 daxim joined #perl6
21:36 dalek rakudo/moar-support: 524d2f5 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
21:36 dalek rakudo/moar-support: Scatter declaration_static for Moar's sake.
21:36 dalek rakudo/moar-support:
21:36 dalek rakudo/moar-support: It already uses the closure model that we need to move to on the JVM
21:36 dalek rakudo/moar-support: in the future.
21:36 dalek rakudo/moar-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/524d2f5079
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21:43 * dwarring has added actions counter-example to advent draft - https://gist.github.com/dwarring/7848868
21:44 * dwarring modest addition
21:49 raydiak r: say ( Int(1)/Int(2) === 1/2 )
21:49 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0, rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:49 raydiak when does Int math produce different results than Num math?
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21:50 lue r: say 1/3; say 1e0/3e0;
21:50 camelia rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«0.333333␤0.3333333333333333␤»
21:50 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e542a0: OUTPUT«0.333333␤0.333333333333333␤»
21:50 raydiak r: say(1/3).WHAT; say (1e0/3e0).WHAT;
21:50 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0, rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«0.333333␤(Num)␤»
21:51 raydiak r: say (1/3).WHAT; say (1e0/3e0).WHAT;
21:51 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0, rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤(Num)␤»
21:51 lue r: say 1/3; say 1 div 3
21:51 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0, rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«0.333333␤0␤»
21:51 dalek rakudo/moar-support: 864bec6 | jonathan++ | src/vm/moar/ops/perl6_ops.c:
21:51 dalek rakudo/moar-support: Fix p6captureouters to do the right thing.
21:51 dalek rakudo/moar-support:
21:51 dalek rakudo/moar-support: Fixes loads of the "Cannot invoke..." errors.
21:51 dalek rakudo/moar-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/864bec634a
21:52 raydiak r: say 1.WHAT
21:52 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0, rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
21:53 raydiak ah...so it's the e that makes an int not an Int any more
21:53 raydiak r: say 1e0.WHAT
21:53 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0, rakudo-jvm e542a0: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
21:54 masak no, the scientific-notation 'e' makes a Num.
21:58 raydiak that's what I meant...an integer will produce an Int, unless you add the 'e' part...which IRL would still produce something considered an integer, but in perl 6 does not...correct?
21:59 raydiak (unless the part before or after the e was fractional, of course...then it wouldn't be an integer in either case)
22:01 lue also unless it's part of a Rat literal.
22:02 masak raydiak: no, the 'e' produces a Num, not an int.
22:03 lue masak: raydiak is switching freely between Perl 6's idea of integers an Mathematics' idea of integers.
22:04 raydiak ah, right...I should clarify: I often learn something new by mentally building a logical mapping between the new thing and something I already know
22:04 masak well, there are lots of ways a scientific-notation number could lead to Not An int.
22:04 masak p: say 5e-2
22:04 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0: OUTPUT«0.05␤»
22:05 masak p: say 3.14e0
22:05 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0: OUTPUT«3.14␤»
22:05 lue raydiak: just remember that in Perl 6, how you write the number is more important than what the number is :) .
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22:06 masak well, certainly that's true from a type perspective.
22:06 masak this, for example, works in Math, but not in Perl 6:
22:06 masak p: my Num $n = 4
22:06 camelia rakudo-parrot e542a0: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$n'; expected 'Num' but got 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/eNA2MqxXAQ:1␤  in any  at /tmp/eNA2MqxXAQ:1␤  in any  at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1146␤  in any eval at gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1133␤  in any eva…»
22:07 masak 'night, #perl6
22:07 raydiak lue++: that's exactly what I was forgetting to focus on
22:07 raydiak \o g'night masak++ thanks for explaining
22:07 lue masak: I call won't-do-type-casting shenanigans on that one; Int ⊂ Num.
22:07 lue ♞ masak o/
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22:19 lue :(    make: *** [CORE.setting.moarvm] Segmentation fault
22:26 jeff_s1 joined #perl6
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22:58 FROGGS I am out of ideas atm... http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=2101&amp;preview=true
22:59 FROGGS suggestions how to extend it a very appreciated
23:01 FROGGS I feel a bit sick atm but I'd be happy to add a more paragraphs tomorrow morning (in about 9 hours)
23:01 raiph joined #perl6
23:06 dalek nqp: 565cce8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/QRegex/P5Regex/Grammar.nqp:
23:06 dalek nqp: implement m:P5/\Q\E/
23:06 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/565cce8092
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: dc5a1ff | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: implement m:/\Q\E/
23:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dc5a1ff741
23:11 FROGGS ohh, adverb gone missing :/
23:19 FROGGS humm
23:19 FROGGS --output=gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.moarvm gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp
23:19 FROGGS Cannot find method 'optimize'
23:21 FROGGS --module-path=gen/parrot/stage2 --setting-path=gen/parrot/stage2 gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp
23:21 FROGGS Method 'optimize' not found for invocant of class 'NQPMu'
23:21 FROGGS :o(
23:21 FROGGS timotimo: do you have uncommitted changes?
23:42 vtayur joined #perl6
23:47 woolfy FROGGS: I think it is quite a nice blog.  Some typos (march -> March, rakudo -> Rakudo) and some sentences that need a second look from you.
23:47 meralt joined #perl6
23:47 pecastro joined #perl6
23:48 woolfy FROGGS: and you switch from using the word 'slangs' to the word 'grammar', and after 'A slang was born' the word 'slang' is no longer used. Did you intend to write about slang or about grammar?
23:49 woolfy FROGGS:  just re-read your blog tomorrow morning.  You will find the words you need, I am sure.
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