Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-12-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:12 timotimo FROGGS: i'll give moar-support the missing commit
00:12 dalek rakudo/moar-support: 93caa93 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
00:12 dalek rakudo/moar-support: bump NQP revision to get the regex optimizer.
00:12 dalek rakudo/moar-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/93caa935a6
00:12 dalek rakudo/moar-support: ffb923d | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
00:12 dalek rakudo/moar-support: run the QRegex optimizer from rakudo's optimizer.
00:13 dalek rakudo/moar-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ffb923d632
00:14 timotimo wait, that didn't make sense
00:14 timotimo you were building nqp
00:14 timotimo in that case, all you need is to re-run configure.pl
00:24 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 1a43d69 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
00:24 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
00:24 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/1a43d69d30
00:24 dalek perl6-roast-data: a5139a1 | coke++ | / (6 files):
00:24 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:24 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/a5139a17cc
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02:53 rjbs was re-reading this today.  Possibly of interest to some here:
02:53 rjbs http://inform7.com/learn/documents/WhitePaper.pdf
02:53 rjbs whitepaper on the natural-language-like Inform 7 programming language
02:59 lue Fun I7 exercise: replace "The Lounge is east of the Kitchen" with "The Lounge is to the east of the Kitchen"
02:59 rjbs :)
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05:59 BenGoldberg p: say (e ** 3).perl, " ", exp(3).perl; # unsurprising
05:59 camelia rakudo-parrot dc5a1f: OUTPUT«20.0855369231877e0 20.0855369231877e0␤»
06:00 BenGoldberg j: say (e ** 3).perl, " ", exp(3).perl; # surprising?
06:00 camelia rakudo-jvm dc5a1f: OUTPUT«20.085536923187675e0 20.085536923187668e0␤»
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07:49 FROGGS moritz: are the double quotes in the header intentional? http://irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/2013-12-16
07:53 timotimo and at the very bottom?(
08:03 moritz FROGGS: "not really"
08:04 timotimo ""
08:04 * FROGGS .oO( "Lazer" )
08:05 moritz will hopefully be fixed as soon as the template cache expires
08:05 moritz that is, in 10 minutes
08:06 timotimo cache expiry: one of the harder problems in computer science
08:06 moritz nah, already fixed
08:06 moritz FROGGS++
08:07 * timotimo has an idea brewing in his head for a cool perl6-related project
08:07 timotimo i should get a github paid account so that i can make it private and tease you about it from time to time :P
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08:08 timotimo .o(or ... just put it on bitbucket)
08:08 BenGoldberg Does perl6-related mean written in perl6, or merely inspired by perl6?
08:10 timotimo the first
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08:12 timotimo but also related to the community and stuff
08:21 timotimo there's no database i can use on the jvm port of rakudo right now, no?
08:21 timotimo except maybe if i use the jvm interop for JDBC?
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08:35 moritz please do that, and patch it into DBIish
08:36 timotimo ... yikes
08:36 timotimo seems pretty daunting
08:36 timotimo though the payoff is probably quite nice
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08:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 3264e9f | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/CallFrame.pm:
08:45 dalek rakudo/nom: give non-parrot's CallFrame the $.level, too.
08:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3264e9f1ad
08:45 * timotimo is amazed he found that :P
08:48 moritz nqp::bindattr($self, CallFrame, '%.level', $l);
08:48 timotimo whoops
08:48 timotimo thanks!
08:48 moritz it's good that you noticed the dubiousity before I could put it into words :-)
08:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 01e150a | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/CallFrame.pm:
08:48 dalek rakudo/nom: copypasto, spotted by moritz++
08:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/01e150afb9
08:49 * moritz still not convinced
08:49 moritz shouldn't it be $!level?
08:49 timotimo WHY DO I DO THIS
08:49 moritz the low-level attribute always has a !
08:50 * moritz knows exactly how timotimo feels now, having been there before
08:50 dalek rakudo/nom: 4136508 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/CallFrame.pm:
08:50 dalek rakudo/nom: there are no words to explain this blunder.
08:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/41365084e3
08:51 timotimo hm, so a state var in method new can be used to implement singletons, right?
08:51 timotimo though at that point i might as well have a package with "my" vars and subs instead of methods
09:04 FROGGS thanks woolfy
09:04 FROGGS advent calender for today published
09:08 moritz FROGGS: could you maybe state more clearly that this is not in mainline rakudo right now?
09:08 moritz FROGGS++ # advent calendar
09:09 FROGGS moritz: mainline rakudo? what do you mean?
09:09 FROGGS ahh, that you need to recompile it to use it?
09:09 moritz FROGGS: it's in your fork of rakudo, right?
09:10 moritz also
09:11 moritz mlenz@mlenz-workstation:~/p6/rakudo$ ./perl6-p -e 'my $x = "123abc"; $x++; say $x'
09:11 moritz 123abd
09:11 moritz doesn't fail
09:13 FROGGS ahh true
09:14 FROGGS moritz: it is not a fork
09:16 moritz FROGGS: is it a branch? or is it in rakudo/rakudo branch nom?
09:18 FROGGS it is nom + a tiny patch that needs to be applied (that is shown in v5's README)
09:19 FROGGS but yes, I will make clear how one gets v5
09:20 FROGGS p: say "123abc" + 1
09:20 camelia rakudo-parrot dc5a1f: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: trailing characters after number in '123⏏abc' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in method Numeric at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12058␤  in sub infix:<+> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3964␤  in sub infix:<+> at gen/parrot/CORE.settin…»
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09:24 FROGGS moritz: fixed the example code and added a paragraph near the bottom
09:25 moritz FROGGS++
09:26 FROGGS thank you :o)
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09:32 arnsholt o/
09:33 FROGGS hi arnsholt
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10:30 hoelzro good morning #perl6!
10:31 brrt hi hoelzro
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11:04 hoelzro dost mine eyes deceive me?
11:04 hoelzro I have a perl6-m?
11:04 hoelzro \o/
11:04 hoelzro everyone++
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11:10 masak g'day, #perl6
11:11 masak to... to what extent do we have a perl6-m? :)
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11:12 hoelzro it exists
11:12 hoelzro I don't think it does much (yet(
11:12 hoelzro but that's a huge step!
11:17 masak ok :)
11:18 masak &
11:19 FROGGS it passes17 of 23 sanity tests
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11:44 * jnthn wonders if that can be 23 out of 23 before he takes Christmas vacation :)
11:45 go|dfish t
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11:47 jnthn t/00-parrot and t/01-sanity, to be precise... :P
11:47 jnthn If anybody feels like merging those into a single t/01-sanity, that may make sense :)
11:47 FROGGS except the pir tests?
11:48 jnthn aye, that can go in a t/parrot or so
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12:01 dalek rakudo/moar-support: 40a022a | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/0 (40 files):
12:01 dalek rakudo/moar-support: move backend independent tests to t/01-sanity
12:01 dalek rakudo/moar-support: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/40a022ae73
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12:09 clkao_ win 4
12:09 moritz lose 8
12:12 FROGGS :o(
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13:25 * [Coke] reviewingly sees Inform 7. It was fun to play with, but lacked solid documentation, as I recall.
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: c660f54 | coke++ | bin/rakudo.moar.sh:
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: use a nice'd perl6-m
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/c660f5416e
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: 314a738 | coke++ | cull:
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: add moar to the daily csv
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data:
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: (as of this commit, still not passing any spectests)
13:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/314a7386a6
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14:29 woolfy FROGGS: http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/2013/12/16/day-16-slangs/  is an excellent blog.  Even though, I found some typos and I got a question.  I just sent you an email about it.
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14:34 timotimo oh wow, what a nap :|
14:34 timotimo should have been working on my advent post instead :|
14:35 FROGGS woolfy: thanks, got it
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14:45 timotimo FROGGS++ # advent calendar post :3
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14:52 moritz wow, the advent schedule is full up to the 22nd
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14:52 timotimo how should i write "Perl6" in the post?
14:52 timotimo Perl 6, Perl6 or perl6?
14:53 moritz Perl 6
14:53 timotimo okay. and Perl 5, too?
14:53 moritz if you want with a non-breaking space :-)
14:53 moritz yes
14:53 woolfy I would write "Perl 6" (including the space)
14:53 timotimo my keyboard layout has a key for non-breaking spaces! :D
14:54 * moritz breaks it
14:54 timotimo nooooo :(
14:54 tadzik :D
14:54 timotimo i was using that!
14:54 moritz it's Ctrl+k NS for me (in vim)
14:54 * moritz wonders if compose <blank> <blank> works
14:55 moritz aye, it does
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15:27 raydiak good * #perl6
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15:41 moritz good *, raydiak
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15:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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16:49 masak FROGGS++ # http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/2013/12/16/day-16-slangs/
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16:49 timotimo i'm surprised he didn't use many slang terms in that post :P
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16:52 moritz_ yo man, wadcha mean by dad?
16:53 * [Coke] finds a perl blog post that mentions five vs. six performance and is forced to rebuild his local copy of perl6 so he can time their p6 vs. more idiomatic perl6 and ---- oh look, where did the day go.
16:53 * [Coke] thinks he's going to setup a cron job on his mactop to wipe & rebuild perl6 once a week so he always has a fresh copy to code with. :|
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17:02 timotimo [Coke]: i'd be interested in the link :)
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17:10 timotimo huh. indirect object syntax
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17:32 FROGGS[mobile] :o)
17:33 FROGGS[mobile] timotimo: that is about turning "bar Foo" into "Foo->bar"
17:33 [Coke] timotimo: http://blogs.perl.org/users/jarich​/2013/12/exercise-1-3s-and-5.html
17:34 timotimo FROGGS[mobile]: yes, i saw that
17:34 FROGGS[mobile] like: print $fh "text"
17:34 timotimo not sure if i like that. oh well.
17:34 timotimo i think there has to be a : after the $fh, though?
17:34 FROGGS[mobile] no, please don't like that
17:35 FROGGS[mobile] no, a space
17:35 timotimo OK
17:35 timotimo what is perl5i?
17:35 FROGGS[mobile] Perl 5 that is
17:35 tadzik perl5i is fun :)
17:35 FROGGS[mobile] Where does the I come from?
17:35 tadzik imaginary
17:36 tadzik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X4BNqE-mIE
17:36 tadzik erm
17:36 tadzik https://metacpan.org/pod/perl5i
17:36 FROGGS[mobile] Indirect object syntax is the good old perl
17:36 tadzik *relief*, good that it's _you_tube...
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17:36 FROGGS[mobile] Hehe
17:37 FROGGS[mobile] Would you turn *red* otherwise?
17:37 FROGGS[mobile] It is a shame I cant write actions on that phone client
17:38 tadzik :>
17:38 tadzik well, not the worst thing I accidentally pasted :)
17:39 timotimo [Coke]: getting only the numbers up to 20 seems like bad idea for comparing times, tbh
17:39 timotimo humppaa, saatanat!
17:41 [Coke] timotimo: that url is already outdated, whoops:
17:41 [Coke] http://blogs.perl.org/users/jarich/2​013/12/reconsidering-exercise-1.html
17:43 timotimo already saw it :)
17:43 timotimo was about to ask you if you had seen that, too
17:43 [Coke] I like his new p6 version better than mine. ah well.
17:43 [Coke] still no reason for that to take 8s
17:43 timotimo but it's much slower ;)
17:43 timotimo you could tell him that he could use @multiples[] instead of {@multiples}
17:43 timotimo and ..^ $max instead of .. $max - 1
17:44 timotimo bbi10
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17:44 [Coke] I prefer {@multiples}
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17:47 Ulti isnt the 8s coming from JVM startup time
17:48 [Coke] quite possibly.
17:48 Ulti nearly everything I do with the JVM version of Rakudo takes 8s big or small :) its an oracle that has constant time for hard or easy problems with sufficiently small input size
17:54 Ulti I posted a reply with my time which was 1s on September R*
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18:03 Ulti lol I just noticed I ran without the '30' parameter so the time is actually even faster
18:03 Ulti doh
18:03 Ulti I guess 0.1s is a big deal for people worried about times like this :S
18:03 Ulti an 8 second overhead on startup is basically meaningless for me when my Perl scripts run for days or weeks
18:04 timotimo well, with jvm they would rather take days than weeks :)
18:04 Ulti no I mean Perl 5! lol
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18:05 timotimo oh, ok
18:06 Ulti considering perl 6 in that example is ~20x slower if we had autothreading you could argue Perl 6 could be as fast on my desktop since it has 24 cores
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18:20 * Ulti finally gets around to doing his ELM regex task with Util's translated regex library :D
18:20 Ulti lame the bioperl6 module fails to build
18:21 japhb_ Ulti, sounds like an excellent opportunity to earn yourself some good karma.  :-)
18:22 FROGGS[mobile] ++Ulti
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18:32 dwarring ADD 1 TO FROGGS
18:33 dwarring er I mean FROGGS++ (advent post)
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18:34 FROGGS[mobile] hehe
18:34 TimToady COMPUTE FROGGS = FROGGS + 1
18:34 TimToady gotta love Grace Hopper, but she didn't grok huffman coding...
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18:36 Ulti I hope I get some karma for this epic patch I'm making to bioperl6 just to get it to compile on Rakudo... looks a lot like someone translated the Perl 5 by just reading the spec a decade ago :S
18:36 Ulti I think modules.perl6.org needs an extra medal for "compiles without error"
18:37 FROGGS that is what colomon++ does
18:37 Ulti orly?
18:37 Ulti as in thats a thing displayed on the module list page, or colomon is testing the ecosystem?
18:37 FROGGS he said a few days ago that he should make his smoke results available properly
18:38 FROGGS he's testing all modules
18:38 Ulti yeah that would be really worthwhile
18:38 FROGGS but there is no site where you can see it
18:38 Ulti is the source for modules.perl6.org not commitable?
18:39 FROGGS it is
18:39 FROGGS github/perl6/modules.perl6.org or so
18:39 FROGGS he could upload his json results... yeah
18:40 [particle] joined #perl6
18:42 colomon http://75.134.170.198:3001/report
18:42 Ulti yeah I guess you just patch in the extra info in here https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.o​rg/blob/master/web/build-project-list.pl before it builds the P6Project object
18:42 colomon nicer looking graphics for the page broke sometime recently, haven't looked into why.
18:42 Ulti neat!
18:43 colomon and ooo, five new failures overnight.
18:43 colomon including panda?
18:43 Ulti yay I have all ticks
18:44 Ulti I only have one test though which basically just checks to see if you can instantiate the class :S
18:44 colomon and the module author field isn't working either?!
18:44 colomon clearly I need to fiddle with things.
18:45 Ulti there are more Bs than I imagined there would be
18:45 Ulti guess a lot has changed quickly
18:46 wooden joined #perl6
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18:52 colomon Ulti: I think most of those B failures have been there at least six months.
18:52 ajr joined #perl6
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18:57 timotimo oh no! ADT fails!
18:57 timotimo that shines a bad light on me
19:01 wooden joined #perl6
19:01 Ulti colomon I have a feeling some of them are abandonware, bioperl6 feels like it anyway
19:01 colomon I'm sure that's it.
19:01 Ulti %data{"$!min_$pos"} assuming $!min is a private member of the class how can you put that in for string interpolation?
19:02 Ulti $!{min} isnt right
19:02 colomon probably we should have a concerted clean up campaign, fixing the modules that can be fixed and removing the rest from the ecosystem.
19:02 timotimo no, it would be {$!min}
19:02 Ulti aha
19:02 colomon but it doesn't fit in my schedule right now……
19:02 timotimo what you put between { } is full-fledged perl6 code
19:03 retupmoca colomon: does that page list the actual test failures?
19:03 colomon retupmoca: which test fails?  no
19:03 Ulti oh lordie there is no attribute $!min no idea what this code is meant to be doing
19:04 japhb TimToady: Grace Hopper produced the first compiler the same year Huffman published his coding paper, so she might not have had the *opportunity* to grok it.
19:04 japhb :-)
19:06 dmol joined #perl6
19:07 lue Hm. Something tells me valgrind wasn't the best tool for discovering why the r-m setting fails :)
19:07 timotimo dwarring: if i don't succeed in making my post publishable today, is your blog post ready to be published?
19:08 japhb lue: valgrind v. hand-written GC:  And ... FIGHT!
19:08 timotimo :D
19:09 lue stage mast took 6971.933 seconds :)
19:09 timotimo oh yikes
19:09 lue the segfault happened in UV code it seems. I can gist the output from valgrind if you like, I'll try running it through gdb next.
19:13 bibifuc joined #perl6
19:14 bibifuc lue: may I suggest you Address Sanitizer (from GCC or CLang)
19:14 bibifuc the overhead is only 100%
19:16 lue bibifuc: I'll look into it, though it means recompiling MoarVM :)
19:16 arnsholt Yeah, it's usually worthwhile to run a segfault through gdb first
19:16 bibifuc I agree
19:16 arnsholt A lot cheaper than valgrind, and sometimes the bug is reasonably localised
19:18 ajr_ joined #perl6
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19:29 timotimo r: 'abc' ~~ /a $<a>=[\w+]/; say :$<a>.value ~~ Match
19:29 camelia rakudo-parrot 413650, rakudo-jvm 413650: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:30 BenGoldberg r: 'abc' ~~ /a $<a>=[\w+]/; say :$<a>.value.perl
19:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 413650: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "abc", from => 1, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
19:30 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 413650: OUTPUT«Match.new(to => 3, hash => EnumMap.new(), ast => Any, list => ().list, orig => "abc", from => 1)␤»
19:34 lue Umm... how do I gdb? "bt" is coming up with "No stack", so I've no clue :/ .
19:36 TimToady did you run it?
19:37 TimToady .oO("Have you tried turning it off and on?")
19:37 lue yep. I got control of gdb upon "[Inferior 1 (process 9733) exited normally]"
19:38 lue Maybe I have to do `gdb make` ...
19:39 TimToady you'd use gdb on the actual command, which means you might have to look through the wrapper shell scripts first to find the real command
19:39 beastd joined #perl6
19:40 lue I put the command right in front of the $(M_RUN_PERL6) --setting=NULL ... line.  /me is trying gdb make now
19:40 TimToady though if you're running install/bin/moar, that seems to be an executable
19:42 ssutch joined #perl6
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20:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 3260919 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
20:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
20:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/3260919e8c
20:05 dalek mu: 5f6c746 | (Nick Patch)++ | docs/feather/syn_index.html:
20:05 dalek mu: [feather] S15 is a draft
20:05 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/5f6c746fc5
20:05 dalek mu: 53bd7fb | (Nick Patch)++ | / (9 files):
20:05 dalek mu: change github http urls to https
20:05 dalek mu:
20:05 dalek mu: since the official urls are all https in github now.
20:05 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/53bd7fb041
20:05 dalek mu: a695ef5 | (Nick Patch)++ | / (2 files):
20:05 dalek mu: update dead github links
20:05 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/a695ef514b
20:05 dalek mu: e840845 | (Nick Patch)++ | util/Text-SmartLinks/lib/Text/SmartLinks.pm:
20:05 dalek mu: [Text::SmartLinks] fix html
20:05 dalek mu:
20:05 dalek mu: the specs link was broken: s/href"/href="/
20:05 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/e840845e94
20:06 rindolf joined #perl6
20:09 timotimo i think my post is ready, +/- proofreading
20:10 timotimo https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wqauGT​TiNJFCiV7gYNYuDybmUxehB0hbpLIW69Nq8B0/edit ← if you'd like to help, spread comments :)
20:13 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
20:13 timotimo feather.perl6.org:3000 is unreachable again?
20:13 raiph joined #perl6
20:14 [Coke] timotimo: instead of putting it in a try/eval, I'd put it in a block, then impl. can skip the block if needed.
20:15 [Coke] also, add a comment mentioning the RT when adding testneeded tests.
20:15 [Coke] timotimo++
20:15 timotimo i'd rather suggest putting a block around the whole thing
20:16 timotimo because if there's no try/eval it'll blow up at compile-time
20:17 [Coke] not if you skip the block.
20:18 [Coke] (that's what fudging is for)
20:19 [Coke] just my 2¢.
20:19 tadzik timotimo: should be better now
20:19 timotimo ah, that's how you meant it
20:19 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
20:20 lue timotimo++
20:21 lue hm. After running the setting compilation command through gdb, it somehow works now? (And gets stuck on Test.pm)
20:21 timotimo try setting the ulimit for core dump files up and attach gdb to the already-dead process?
20:22 timotimo [Coke]: what do you think about replacing try eval q{ with do { ...?
20:22 lue (not that I can run perl6-m, it merely finishes CORE.setting)
20:30 [Coke] timotimo: the standard at the moment seems to be ala S32-list/first.t 's setup - small blocks of self contained tests that you can #?skip if you want.
20:30 [Coke] s/want/need/
20:30 timotimo right
20:31 timotimo that's not what i meant, though
20:31 [Coke] what advantage does using a do block give?
20:32 timotimo it makes a lexical scope so that the $/ doesn't leak around and grabs the last value inside it for our return value
20:32 timotimo r: my $res = { 1; 2; } say $res;
20:32 camelia rakudo-jvm 413650: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/IEbnaOTctLâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/IEbnaOTctL:1â�¤------> [32mmy $res = { 1; 2; } [33mâ��[31msay $res;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        statem…»
20:32 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 413650: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/13l7dgRpyhâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/13l7dgRpyh:1â�¤------> [32mmy $res = { 1; 2; } [33mâ��[31msay $res;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        sta…»
20:32 timotimo r: my $res = do { 1; 2; } say $res;
20:32 camelia rakudo-parrot 413650: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/39UbQcYvLKâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/39UbQcYvLK:1â�¤------> [32mmy $res = do { 1; 2; } [33mâ��[31msay $res;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        â€¦Â»
20:32 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 413650: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/OEOyYtxy8yâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/OEOyYtxy8y:1â�¤------> [32mmy $res = do { 1; 2; } [33mâ��[31msay $res;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        sta…»
20:32 timotimo er, oops
20:32 timotimo r: my $res = do { 1; 2; }; say $res;
20:32 camelia rakudo-parrot 413650, rakudo-jvm 413650: OUTPUT«2␤»
20:32 timotimo r: my $res = { 1; 2; }; say $res;
20:32 [Coke] that doesn't deal with the #?skip issue.
20:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 413650, rakudo-jvm 413650: OUTPUT«Block.new()␤»
20:33 [Coke] and the bare {} will scope.
20:33 timotimo right. the #?skip issue is dealth with by having the whole thing surrounded by { }
20:33 [Coke] Yes.
20:33 [Coke] and it sounds like you're arguing against that for this other thing.
20:33 timotimo oh, sorry about that
20:33 timotimo that wasn't what i meant
20:34 [Coke] I figured I was confused. :)
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20:37 timotimo dwarring: in case you backlog, you don't need to publish your post today, i finished mine and it's okay
20:44 dwarring timotimo++
20:46 BenGoldberg : $res = prog1 { 1; 2; }; say $res;
20:47 timotimo did you mean $res = sub prog1 { 1; 2; }; say $res;?
20:47 BenGoldberg No, sorry, I've got lisp on the brain :)
20:48 BenGoldberg In lisp, (prog1 foo bar blatch) evaluates each of foo bar and blotch, and it's return value is whatever foo evaluated as
20:49 * lue has had it with panda and its brokenness.
20:49 BenGoldberg Kinda like, in perl5, (do { foo() }, do { bar() }, do { blatch })[0]
20:50 tadzik lue: I know the feeling
20:51 lue Honestly, it's much faster/better/* to use a (slightly modified) ufo, even if lacking the warm and fuzzy insulation of a package manager :) .
20:54 FROGGS joined #perl6
20:56 * lue will hesitantly try panda once FROGGS' S11 work is completed.
20:56 FROGGS yeah
20:57 FROGGS need to discuss with jnthn and tadzik, and then we need to test every possible scenario :o)
20:58 lue :) I just hope the S11 changes de-break panda, though it seems to be an issue with parrot magically not doing things sometimes. :/
20:59 FROGGS hmmm
21:00 FROGGS the only thing my S11 changes to panda do is that it delegated the work of the .install method
21:00 lue I noticed that the random build failures seem to be a result of parrot *not even trying the command*, judging by how much faster I got "False" results v. the "True" results.
21:01 FROGGS a proper test case would help
21:01 FROGGS but sounds like there is none :/
21:02 lue FROGGS: a non-random failure would help with that. e.g. just before I deleted my panda repo out of frustration, I got a totally brand-new failure on Shell::Command, which I'd not seen previously.
21:03 lue (my blaming of parrot comes from previously-seen parrotland errors.)
21:03 FROGGS if it is reproduceable then pull request that failing test or make an issue please
21:04 lue FROGGS: I'm failing the (re)bootstrap.pl script during panda's Builder usage. I'm not sure of any relevant test cases.
21:04 lue (And the failures are reproducible to a point; but like I mentioned it has a nasty habit of changing behavior somehow.)
21:08 rurban1 joined #perl6
21:09 lue hmm, I want to see what happens if I replace all instances of shell() with qqx...
21:17 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:20 lue *sigh* and now I've got a failure on JSON/Tiny.pm >.<
21:23 lue I'm still placing the blame on parrot, 'cos I've yet to get a hint pointing elsewhere :/
21:24 FROGGS lue: what is your PERL6LIB btw?
21:24 FROGGS and your @*INC ?
21:24 FROGGS because recompiling panda's deps requires a special path ordering
21:25 lue FROGGS: $ echo $PERL6LIB
21:25 lue $ perl6 -e 'say @*INC'
21:25 lue </usr/local/lib/parrot stuff> /home/matthew/.perl6/2013.10-315-ga6eeb0b/lib
21:25 FROGGS maybe not soo special: the directory it wants install to must come before the panda/ext/JSON__Tiny or so
21:26 lue FROGGS: this is the *build* step that's failing, the one that generates the .pir
21:26 FROGGS it does that in the bootstrap script, but maybe that fails?
21:26 lue FROGGS: https://gist.github.com/lue/01c2f45754f97f98460a
21:27 lue (the install dirs should not have an effect on the build process)
21:28 FROGGS can you insert a --ll-exception after the $*EXE_NAME? https://gist.github.com/lue/01c2f45754f97f984​60a#file-diffs-so-you-can-replicate-above-L13
21:29 * lue tries that
21:29 FROGGS I had expected that it fails building something that has deps
21:30 lue FROGGS: I should let you know that the "git diff", if gen'd now, would look different from that, as well as what in bootstrap.pl fails. I only gave you that link to give you a representative example of the issue.
21:30 FROGGS k
21:30 FROGGS does this command there build the .pir? https://gist.github.com/lue/01c2f45754f97f9846​0a#file-manual-try-at-failing-panda-command-L1
21:31 FROGGS if not then you can put the --ll-exeption there
21:31 lue FROGGS: whenever I do a manual run of a failing file, I get a real file out of it.
21:31 FROGGS --ll-exception*
21:31 FROGGS k
21:31 FROGGS I had that too when fiddling with S11
21:32 FROGGS IIRC it failed because of "out of memory"
21:32 FROGGS (according to parrot)
21:33 lue FROGGS: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2013-12-15#i_8004264  :)
21:33 FROGGS :S
21:34 FROGGS if I could remember what fixed it for me...
21:34 * lue considers writing a parrot detonation script, to be more dramatic about the day he switches to MoarVM ...
21:36 * FROGGS .oO( CTRL+a CTRL+d )
21:36 lue I don't get anything by adding --ll-exception, so it truly seems to be an issue with the norwegian blue executing commands.
21:36 timotimo how do i format in-line code snippets in wordpress?
21:37 FROGGS I use <pre> >.<
21:37 timotimo that's not in-line
21:37 timotimo apparently i can use <code>
21:37 FROGGS ahh, yes
21:37 FROGGS code
21:38 lue <code> is in-line, <pre> is block-formatting, and [code] is block-formatting+line numbers
21:39 timotimo yikes, the source code looks frightful
21:43 FROGGS compile it to something else then :P
21:43 timotimo :)
21:44 lue FROGGS: do you have any ideas as to how you stopped parrot from breaking panda?
21:44 timotimo http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/?p=2112&amp;preview=true
21:44 FROGGS lue: no
21:44 denis_boyun joined #perl6
21:45 * [Coke] eyerolls at the constant parrot bashing.
21:45 * lue will wait for MoarVM before trying panda
21:45 timotimo quite bashful, no?
21:45 lue [Coke]: when Parrot is preventing me from using a pretty important piece of software, I think it quite deserves it.
21:47 FROGGS lue: prove it that it is parrots fault
21:48 lue FROGGS: the one and only singular error message I have ever gotten comes from the parrot source code. Seems to me, a little bit, that Parrot is to blame.
21:48 benabik joined #perl6
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21:48 takadonet Ulti: ping
21:52 [Coke] I blame nqp for misusing parrot.
21:52 timotimo :)
21:52 [Coke] I do get that it's frustrating, honest.
21:52 lue here's the stack trace from that one error message: https://gist.github.com/lue/bf883d13e7917067e765
21:53 beastd joined #perl6
21:54 [Coke] is there a ticket somewhere that shows the issue from beginning to end
21:54 [Coke] ?
21:55 lue [Coke]: not that I'm aware of. This issue pops up semi-randomly, so I'm not sure what use a ticket is until I figure out the root cause.
21:55 takadonet phenny, tell Ulti that bioperl6 is not abandonware just myself and cjfields were waiting for some elements of the spec to stop changing. We did start the port a few ago so some code looks very  old. Hoping to start working on it asap.
21:55 takadonet ... did not think that worked
21:55 tgt joined #perl6
21:56 [Coke] try a colon.
21:56 * lue tries running the bootstrap itself with --ll-exception
21:57 [Coke] jnthn: using perl6-j, using the example on http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/​12/03/day-03-rakudo-perl-6-on-the-jvm/, I get this error:
21:57 [Coke] No such method 'method/update/(B)V' for invocant of type 'java.util.zip.CRC32'
21:58 [Coke] ... oh. we can't call back into perl6 code from java yet, making me doubt we could implement an interface.
21:58 timotimo no, we can implement interfaces
21:58 timotimo at least some ...
21:58 takadonet left #perl6
21:58 timotimo there really isn't an update with B, just with I or B[]
21:58 timotimo is that how you spell it?
21:58 timotimo byte[] is the type in the signature
21:58 [Coke] the error and the callback were separate questions, btw.
21:59 lue [Coke]: I see now that it's probably NQP to blame, but I'm still blaming parrot until I know for sure what's happening. How often do parrot errors bleed through and assume the guise of a higher-level error?
22:00 [Coke] lue: nevermind, I cancel my end of this conversation.
22:01 timotimo meeeeh, my java_interop_dispatchers branch stopped working altogether :(
22:01 [Coke] timotimo: using (I) gives me This representation can not unbox to a native int
22:01 timotimo right, because you have a whole buffer
22:02 timotimo rather than just a single integer
22:02 timotimo you could write for @$_ at the end, though :P
22:02 timotimo but yeah, the example needs fixed
22:03 lue [Coke]: I was honestly asking how often the errors bleed through. It's why I still place blame on Parrot, really. Because I don't know if that bleed-through is normal or the fault of parrot messing up.
22:04 lue (adding ll-exception for the script itself revealed nothing :/)
22:05 * [Coke] sticks with straight java for now. (sadface)
22:08 lue Come to think of it, how would NQP cause Parrot to claim it can't allocate memory? ...
22:10 lue If I'm reading the stacktrace correctly, it's not actually showing me to where in the qqx/shell/run/* execution the error pops up.
22:11 timotimo jnthn: did you see coke's concerns with the java interop post?
22:17 jnthn timotimo: Well, I only talk code I had run successfully at some point...didn't verify it on latest, and assumed it'd keep on working. Odd that it woulda broke, though.
22:17 jnthn *took code
22:18 timotimo strange, yeah
22:18 jnthn Though, the whole really needs some tests writing.
22:19 jnthn Otherwise we'll never know when it breaks.
22:19 timotimo yeah. like my build is just completely breaking and i don't understand it at all
22:19 FROGGS joined #perl6
22:20 timotimo Unhandled exception: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: org.perl6.nqp.runtime.Ops.printfh(Lorg/perl6/nqp/​sixmodel/SixModelObject;Ljava/lang/String;Lorg/pe​rl6/nqp/runtime/ThreadContext;)Ljava/lang/String;
22:20 timotimo when doing --output=gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.jar gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp
22:23 lue does rakudo register its own nqp::open? Because I can make no sense of control.pm:202
22:25 TimToady timotimo: it still mentions 'eval'
22:26 timotimo oh! good thing i didn't hit publish yet
22:26 timotimo ah yes, i only changed the text below the code, not the text above it
22:26 jnthn timotimo: Grr. That's 'cus the stage0 depends on an op that's no longer there.
22:27 timotimo ah damnit :(
22:27 jnthn timotimo: If we do a NQP JVM rebootstrap at some point, we'll clear this up.
22:27 jnthn Feel free to do it. It's better than somebody hitting this issue once every week or two.
22:29 timotimo edit'd
22:29 lue Finding a commonality between shell and qx to figure out my woes is not going so well :/ (I've followed shell down to the nqp ops level so far, and qx down to the parrot ops level.)
22:29 * lue &
22:44 [Coke] It's been so long since I wrote XMPP code, I figured things had to be better by now. :P
22:45 tadzik oh, xmpp is fun :)
22:46 [Coke] the java library I'm using has completely different interfaces for chat vs. multi-user-chat, and, better, you can't run both listeners simultaneously.
22:47 tadzik doh
22:47 tadzik the only client I ever wrote didn't have support for muc
22:51 FROGGS timotimo++ # advent post :o)
22:52 jeff_s1 joined #perl6
22:53 timotimo it'll be published 0100, whenever that is in the blog's timezone
22:54 timotimo if it doesn't pop up at the right time, feel free to publish it manually for me :)
23:00 timotimo maybe i'll do the stage0 regen tomorrow
23:00 timotimo i'm kinda tired. but maybe i'll play a vidya game before i go to bed
23:06 raiph joined #perl6
23:10 lue I can't seem to find a common thread between qx and shell. This is frustrating.
23:14 rurban1 joined #perl6
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23:40 felipe joined #perl6
23:43 woolfy timotimo++ for the advent calendar blog.  Interesting stuff, a bit over my head, but I got the gist.  And I have just two remarks, which I will send separately.
23:45 woolfy timotimo : it looks like you wrote the beginning of what can be a primer on how to make tests for Perl 6.  Or does that already exist?

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