Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-12-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:07 dalek perl6-roast-data: 9218024 | coke++ | / (4 files):
00:07 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:07 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/9218024d7b
00:07 [Coke] rakudo.moar back to compiling, but not finding Test.pm
00:11 japhb_ Dang.  I'd really like to see what numbers it can put up.
00:12 japhb_ Oh, and raydiak, no worries about "spouting off" about a cool Perl 6 project.  That's pretty well on topic here.
00:13 [Coke] perl6-m: use Test;
00:13 [Coke] r: use Test;
00:13 camelia rakudo-parrot 2b027b, rakudo-jvm 2b027b: ( no output )
00:13 [Coke] is it too soon to get rakudo-moar in ther?
00:13 [Coke] rakudo-moar: use Test;
00:15 [Coke] looks like ./perl6-m -Ilib finds it (and then dies elsewise), while PERL6LIB=`pwd`/lib ./perl6-m doesn't find it (and then complains it's not in the directory that it's in)
00:15 japhb_ I think it's time to add it to the recognized : names, but not to default it into r:
00:16 [Coke] here, this seems to be the ll exception blocking loading Test:
00:16 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/8063652
00:17 TimToady it wants m: because we'll be testing that heavily
00:17 [Coke] (the -I version works with --ll-exception to give this stack trace - if you remove ll-exception, you get the cannot load error again)
00:17 diakopter japhb_: it would be fun to get an order of magnitude of orders of magnitude improvement there
00:18 TimToady no, that would be Fun
00:19 diakopter the exact allusion eludes me
00:20 TimToady it's a bit obscure
00:21 TimToady the 32 bit, to be precise
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00:31 [Coke] who moderates the perl6-announce list?
00:31 [Coke] I had a message rejected due to lack of moderation.
00:32 [Coke] I'm sorry, the list moderators for the perl6-announce list
00:32 [Coke] have failed to act on your post. Thus, I'm returning it to you.
00:42 lue TimToady: were you perchance referencing DF?
00:43 TimToady no, I was referencing ASCII
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02:32 [Coke] work in progress for day 21: https://gist.github.com/coke/8064687
02:40 raiph [Coke]: s/progamatic/programmatic/
02:42 raiph "You use a preceding colon in the argument declaration" # maybe mention that the two dots in a colon are mnemonic for a key/val pair?
02:46 [Coke] that mnemonic does nothing for me, I'll omit it.
02:48 [Coke] seen moritz?
02:48 [Coke] preflex: seen moritz?
02:48 preflex moritz was last seen on #git 5 hours, 18 minutes and 19 seconds ago, saying: I don't get any messages by chanserv when I join the channel
02:48 [Coke] preflex: ask moritz if he needs someone to do the release for DEC-19
02:48 preflex Consider it noted.
02:49 [Coke] note: I am not volunteering. :)
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02:57 raiph [Coke]: your article looks good to go to me # [Coke]++
03:01 [Coke] few more sections. (reload, you'll get one more.)
03:02 * lue would consider doing an R* release again.
03:07 lue [Coke]++ for the post-to-be
03:09 lue [Coke]: One thing I want to mention is perhaps including the *@a and *%b slurpies in your post. If you can't fit them in the post, that's fine. Just thought I'd mention it.
03:11 [Coke] it's already there.... in a secret version, whoops. unifying shortly.
03:16 [Coke] there, slurpies and methods and traits added.
03:20 lue Some things I noticed: "(using the expanded pair syntax again)" --- you say 'again', but "expanded pair syntax" has never been mentioned before. Getting rid of the "again" would fix it, it seems.
03:21 lue "also showing that positionals and named arguments can be combined in the same declaration." Do you mean to be talking about just pointy blocks? (As in, "combined in one pointy block declaration" ?) Otherwise it seems a bit late to point this out.
03:23 lue I would change "It is always the first parameter" in the Methods section to "It must be the first parameter if you define it" or "It is always the first parameter (defaults to 'self' if you don't specify something)", because the way it is now makes it seem like you *have* to declare a name for C<self>.
03:24 lue And finally, super minor nitpick: "(without parenthesis)" under Slurpy should be parentheses.
03:24 lue [Coke]++ again for the post :)
03:25 [Coke] r: say 18/50
03:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 2b027b, rakudo-jvm 2b027b: OUTPUT«0.36␤»
03:29 [Coke] lue: all your notes addressed in some fashion.
03:30 [Coke] oh, I missed something I wanted to add on multis.
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03:33 lue [Coke]: Just looked at them. Looks good :)
03:35 [Coke] is cached still isn't implemented, right?
03:38 diakopter the general case is pretty hard
03:40 [Coke] "it's just memoize"
03:40 [Coke] (which is pretty hard, yes)
03:41 [Coke] ok, updated gist to include one more example at the end of Types.
03:41 [Coke] wonder if we can get mjd to implement is cached.
03:44 diakopter :)
03:44 [Coke] ok, porting to wp...
03:55 [Coke] http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/?p=2191&amp;preview=true
03:58 [Coke] what timezone is the wp server in?
03:58 [Coke] (should go live at 0:03 in the morning, whenever that is.)
03:59 lue [Coke]: UTC as far as I'm aware
04:01 [Coke] eh. I can just push it now, I guess.
04:02 TimToady yes, it thinks it was published 4 hours ago :)
04:02 [Coke] pushed.
04:03 * lue should never be trusted to handle that error case: "Warning: Wordpress has detected Continuity Errors in your blog via Time Travel. Please correct."
04:05 lue [Coke]: just skimmed over your post to see if there were any missing <> things in your code. There weren't, so far as I could tell.
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05:35 [Coke] lue++
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06:12 moritz good morning
06:12 preflex moritz: you have 1 new message. '/msg preflex messages' to read it.
06:12 moritz sorry, I missed the date for the rakudo release
06:12 moritz I'll do some of it now, but I'll have to travel today and tomorrow
06:12 moritz so might be good if somebody else takes over
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06:14 raydiak \o good morning from the currently dark side of the earth
06:40 dalek rakudo/nom: cd2f9c7 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2013.12.md:
06:40 dalek rakudo/nom: release announcement. Please review!
06:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cd2f9c792d
06:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 63b0d10 | moritz++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
06:41 dalek rakudo/nom: update release_guide with Dec 2013 release
06:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/63b0d10f27
06:42 dalek nqp: 9fdfe1f | moritz++ | VERSION:
06:42 dalek nqp: bump VERSION to 2013.12
06:42 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9fdfe1f2a0
06:43 lue moritz: while you're in the release guide, could you fix the mojibake for the last release name? At least, I'm assuming Malmö isn't an actual pm group :)
06:43 moritz lue: where do you see the Mojibake?
06:43 moritz lue: so far everything I've seen wrt the release name has been perfectly fine UTF-8
06:43 lue Right at the bottom, release #70
06:44 tadzik "Private attributes from roles are now visible in the classes they apply to" \o/
06:44 lue Oh, might be github borking things.
06:44 moritz oh, missing encoding directive
06:44 moritz lue++
06:44 tadzik also, I think we may want to redefine the scheduled release dates of Rakudo, as Parrot doesn't get releases anymore
06:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 3514394 | moritz++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
06:44 dalek rakudo/nom: the release guide is written in UTF-8
06:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3514394749
06:47 moritz lue: mojibake on github gone
06:50 lue yeah, noticed :)
06:53 tadzik wow, Jolla's are orderable as of now: http://shop.jolla.com/
06:53 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wik​i/History_variables#Perl_6
06:53 TimToady wanted to use 'handles *' but that didn't work right
06:54 TimToady also wanted to mixin directly to $var.VAR but that doesn't work either, since those fetches and stores seem to be hotpathed
06:54 moritz eeks, t/hll/06-sprintf.t fails two tets on nqp-parrot
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06:57 dalek nqp: 9466ff0 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
06:57 dalek nqp: TODO two failing tests, bump VERSION to 2013.12.1
06:57 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9466ff0d7a
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06:58 dalek rakudo/nom: cf133aa | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
06:58 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump NQP revision
06:58 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cf133aa48a
06:59 dalek rakudo/nom: 03a7756 | moritz++ | VERSION:
06:59 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump VERSION
06:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/03a7756178
07:00 lue TimToady: but how do I know the history of the history?
07:03 * moritz builds the release candidate tarball
07:04 lue moritz: based on tadzik's earlier comment, is the announcement mentioning coordination with Parrot releases still necessary? Or can fixing that wait until next release :) ?
07:05 moritz lue: I'm in no position to make any decisions regarding the release schedule
07:06 lue I was just referring to the specific language in the announcement that clarifies we coordinate with Parrot releases, which according to tadzik doesn't happen anymore.
07:06 lue (not to the actual scheduling itself; no problems with that from me for now)
07:07 moritz lue: well, it already says that it's soon after the parrot releas is *scheduled*, not after the actual release
07:08 lue fair enough, for now at least :) .
07:08 moritz otoh it wouldn't hurt to reword
07:09 dalek rakudo/nom: fc97467 | moritz++ | Configure.pl:
07:09 dalek rakudo/nom: [Configure] --gen-parrot implies backend parrot
07:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fc97467ed5
07:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 79cdc9f | moritz++ | docs/announce/2013.12.md:
07:09 dalek rakudo/nom: [announce] decouple release date wording a bit from parrot, lue++, tadzik++
07:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/79cdc9fd47
07:09 lue tadzik: Unless you can provide an argument for a better release date, I'd say just backdefining our current choice would be good in the future. (cf. every SI unit except kg)
07:10 moritz IMHO it would be good to have the rakudo compiler release a bit earlier each month
07:11 tadzik I'm satisfied with the current wording :)
07:11 moritz that would give the R* release manager more time to make the release within the same month
07:11 lue .oO("Paradise comes at the Ides of [Month]!" *cackle*)
07:14 lue Speaking of R*, I'm thinking that I'll probably be up for it. So long as it doesn't have to interrupt Christmas afternoon :)
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07:42 moritz oh noes, somehow I have 3 failing test files with p-spectest
07:43 moritz S05-modifier/perl5_{2,3,4} all abort before finishing
07:43 moritz Unrecognized regex metacharacter ! (must be quoted to match literally)
07:43 moritz at eval_0:1
07:43 moritz ------> my $x = anon regex { ^⏏! }
07:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 1049b41 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
07:44 dalek rakudo/nom: comment out failing test files
07:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1049b41c58
07:48 moritz release tagged and uploaded
07:49 raydiak moritz++
07:49 Woodi thanx moritz++
07:49 moritz annoucement sent to p6c
07:49 Woodi and hi today :)
07:51 Woodi hmm, I had idea of R+ distribution few days ago but forget what was rationale for it...
07:51 Woodi probably it was same as R* but for users not devs...
07:56 moritz uhm, R* is meant for users
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08:57 labster I don't know, doubling the x operator can be kind of confusing:
08:57 labster p: my \x = 3; my \xx = 5; sub postfix:<x> ($x) { $x~"1" }; sub x ($x) { $x ~ "2" }; say x(x)x x x xx xx
08:57 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«321321321 321321321 321321321 321321321 321321321␤»
08:59 jercos holy molé batman.
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10:05 masak goooood morning, #perl6
10:12 * masak sits down to write tomorrow's p6advent post
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10:30 masak [Coke]: doctor(:prop<cricket bat>, :number<5>);
10:30 masak [Coke]: that <cricket bat> is a list of two strings -- maybe not what you intended?
10:31 masak (it comes out right in this case, because a list of strings stringifies to have a space in between. but if :$prop were typed, it wouldn't have worked)
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11:37 lizmat_ [Coke]++ for blog post, which taught me something I didn't know yet!
11:39 colomon moritz++
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11:42 lizmat_ r: sub a (:$b) {say $b}; a(:b<foo>)  # this works
11:42 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«foo␤»
11:43 lizmat_ r: sub a (:$b($c)) {say $c}; a(:b<foo>)  # this doesn't, but should?
11:43 camelia rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«Flattening named argument must have VMHash REPR␤␤»
11:43 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1 in sub-signature of parameter $b␤  in sub a at /tmp/zCPqh6ECnC:1␤  in block  at /tmp/zCPqh6ECnC:1␤␤»
11:43 lizmat_ std: sub a (:$b($c)) {say $c}; a(:b<foo>)  # this doesn't, but should?
11:43 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 128m␤»
11:44 lizmat_ Am I doing something wrong with the expanded pair syntax as described in [Coke]'s blogpost
11:44 masak r: sub a (:b($c)) {say $c}; a(:b<foo>)
11:44 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«foo␤»
11:44 masak I think the :$b($c) form should either Just Work
11:44 masak or have a much better error message.
11:44 masak (and S06 will probably know which)
11:44 * masak submits rakudobug
11:45 lizmat_ ah, now I see it  :-), thanks masak++
11:45 masak (also, the fact that Rakudo JVM gives something different is suspect in itself)
11:45 lizmat_ indeed
11:48 lizmat_ moritz++ for silent rakudo release
11:50 masak moritz++
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11:53 masak nwc10++ # I love seeing MoarVM discussion on p6c
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11:57 * lizmat loves seeing Perl6 and its advent calendar being used to spot/fix problems in Marpa
11:57 masak oh, I missed that part.
11:57 masak but yes, that's lovely.
11:59 FROGGS moritz: the failing perl5 tests might be my fault :/
11:59 masak bisect! bisect! bisect!
11:59 FROGGS I will
12:00 masak it's quite fun to teach, actually.
12:00 masak (did it yesterday, and on Wednesday)
12:01 masak TimToady: would still love to see a post from you on 23rd or 24th.
12:01 masak pmichaud: ditto.
12:02 masak (but I understand if you're too busy, and we'll probably be able to cover for you)
12:02 * lizmat seconds
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12:17 masak started writing a draft for tomorrow's p6advant post: https://gist.github.com/masak/3e1c8697e27672efe7de
12:18 masak I expect it to be about twice as long. but that's a start.
12:18 masak &
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12:43 FROGGS p: my $x = "b"; say "ab" ~~ m/a<$x>/
12:43 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«「ab」␤␤»
12:43 FROGGS p: my $x = "\n"; say "a\n" ~~ m/a<$x>/
12:43 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:44 FROGGS that is the problem... (which my m:P5 patch hits...)
12:46 FROGGS ahh! /o\
12:47 FROGGS that strikes again: rakudo/src/core/Cursor.pm:195:        my $rx := eval("my \$x = anon regex \{ $arg \}");
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12:49 FROGGS well, it is more about the other evals
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13:37 colomon o/ # computer reclaimed from cartoon-watching 5yo
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14:55 FROGGS p: my @a := nqp::split("", "abc") # why is that so?
14:55 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«Unmarshallable foreign language value passed for parameter '$got'␤  in block  at /tmp/_53Pye4a2I:1␤␤»
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15:53 TimToady I can probably do the 24th, if I can figure out what to write about
15:54 TimToady hopefully my cold will be easing up over the next day or two
15:55 TimToady anyway, ideas welcome
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16:02 [Coke] masak: no, I didn't mean that. Fixing.
16:05 [Coke] updated to ("cricket bat")
16:12 [Coke] masak++
16:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 8bb7e1d | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
16:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
16:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/8bb7e1d40e
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16:16 [Coke] we have a failure in R*: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-d​aily/blob/master/log/test-modules.log - modules/perl6-lwp-simple's t/get-unsized.t
16:17 TimToady masak: :$b($c) might Just Work, but it will probably Just Work Wrong, unless you meant :$b ($c)
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16:29 TimToady (in a sig, that is; in normal code it'd be a pair with a postcircumfix:<( )>)
16:29 timotimo should :$b($c) be forbidden in signatures then and give a helpful error message?
16:30 timotimo std: my int a = 5;
16:30 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Multiple prefix constraints not yet supported at /tmp/SasOKSPDNi line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed my at /tmp/SasOKSPDNi line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:…»
16:30 timotimo r: my int a = 5;
16:30 camelia rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'int' is not declared. Did you mean 'Int'?â�¤at /tmp/Qp6I8Df8xh:1â�¤------> [32mmy int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/Qp6I8Df8xh:1â�¤------> [32mmy int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:…»
16:30 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'int' is not declared. Did you mean 'Int'?â�¤at /tmp/QyDxdSn37l:1â�¤------> [32mmy int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/QyDxdSn37l:1â�¤------> [32mmy int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any …»
16:30 timotimo r: my Int a = 5;
16:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'Int' is not declared. Did you mean 'int'?â�¤at /tmp/q_Z_OLS6bO:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/q_Z_OLS6bO:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any …»
16:30 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'Int' is not declared. Did you mean 'int'?â�¤at /tmp/ossbZBExQ_:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/ossbZBExQ_:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:…»
16:30 timotimo interesting, I'll look into that
16:31 TimToady well, and does it make sense to disallow brackets after :$b in normal code?
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16:32 timotimo didn't think about that yet
16:33 timotimo hm, i don't really know why rakudo falls through to the typo_typename branch of token scoped; it should hit the same NYI as std IMO. i'll investigate further
16:36 timotimo ah, of course!
16:36 timotimo typename requires the type to actually be declared
16:36 FROGGS TimToady:
16:36 FROGGS err
16:37 FROGGS TimToady: some sort of "why I designed it that way" or so would be awesome
16:37 FROGGS because your perspective is very interesting, and is another than the usually dev has
16:39 FROGGS is different from*
16:53 TimToady well, that would be a whole book
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17:14 timotimo i'm trying to make my Int foo = 5 throw a "malformed variable identifier (did you mean to declare a \sigilless variable instead?)"
17:14 timotimo does that seem sane?
17:15 FROGGS think so
17:15 FROGGS at least in case "Int" is a known type
17:15 timotimo yes
17:16 timotimo i'm matching multiple known typenames, then an ident and then \: ** 0..2 \=
17:16 timotimo multiple == one or more
17:17 xenoterracide joined #perl6
17:18 dalek std: 4731beb | larry++ | STD.pm6:
17:18 dalek std: disallow extra brackets on various pair thingies
17:18 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/4731beb845
17:23 TimToady maybe s/variable/name/, since sigilless names are not generally variables
17:24 TimToady r: my Int \foo = 42; say foo
17:24 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«42␤»
17:24 TimToady r: my Int \foo = "oops"; say foo
17:24 camelia rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'Int' but got 'Str'␤␤»
17:24 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'Int' but got 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/6XudZIH_G1:1␤␤»
17:24 TimToady \o/
17:24 timotimo i'll change that
17:24 FROGGS there is progress :o)
17:24 timotimo progress on what?
17:25 FROGGS on everything
17:25 timotimo sounds good
17:25 TimToady .oO(even congress has had progress lately)
17:25 raiph joined #perl6
17:25 FROGGS I remember that the last code did something weird a few months back
17:26 TimToady metoo, which is why I tried it
17:27 timotimo the last code of what? huh?
17:27 FROGGS yeah... rakudo really gets "mature" these days
17:27 FROGGS timotimo: this: my Int \foo = "oops"; say foo
17:27 FROGGS star: my Int \foo = "oops"; say foo
17:27 camelia star 2013-09: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'Int' but got 'Str'␤  in block  at /tmp/9FcvSywF1S:1␤␤»
17:27 timotimo oh!
17:27 FROGGS must be a few months more :o)
17:28 TimToady n: my Int \foo = "oops"; say foo
17:28 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«oops␤»
17:28 timotimo a full rebuild of rakudo-jvm and rakudo-parrot in parallel takes quite a while on my laptop :(
17:29 TimToady std: my $b; my $c; :$b($c)
17:29 timotimo oh well. it's not supposed to be a desktop replacement anyway
17:29 camelia std 3b262af: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
17:30 colomon joined #perl6
17:32 FROGGS geese, but I am getting better now after ten times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyMOaROAz9I
17:40 FROGGS p: say "!".ord
17:40 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«33␤»
17:49 TimToady std: my $b; my $c; :$b($c)
17:49 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Extra argument not allowed; pair already has variable argument at /tmp/Rxc8orY6Rm line 1:�------> [32mmy $b; my $c; :$b[33m�[31m($c)[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
17:49 TimToady std: -> :$b($c) {}
17:49 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Subsignature not allowed after named parameter; please insert whitespace at /tmp/kzohuS6EdA line 1:�------> [32m-> :$b[33m�[31m($c) {}[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
17:49 TimToady std: -> :$b ($c) {}
17:49 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $c is declared but not used at /tmp/UjyXulYy7p line 1:â�¤------> [32m-> :$b ([33mâ��[31m$c) {}[0mâ�¤ok 00:01 124mâ�¤Â»
17:50 TimToady std: -> :$b[$c] {}
17:50 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Subsignature not allowed after named parameter; please insert whitespace at /tmp/KXeT0qqFV_ line 1:�------> [32m-> :$b[33m�[31m[$c] {}[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
17:50 TimToady std: -> :$b<foo> {}
17:50 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot apply this shape at /tmp/IJSBx5uVln line 1:�------> [32m-> :$b[33m�[31m<foo> {}[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
17:50 TimToady std: -> :%b<foo> {}
17:50 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
17:50 pecastro joined #perl6
18:01 FROGGS std: my $c; :$<foo>($c)
18:01 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Extra argument not allowed; pair already has variable argument at /tmp/j70p6Pn7O7 line 1:�------> [32mmy $c; :$<foo>[33m�[31m($c)[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
18:05 cooper joined #perl6
18:05 cooper joined #perl6
18:18 ssutch joined #perl6
18:26 FROGGS p: my $q = "+"; say "aaa" ~~ /a<$q>/ # should this match "aaa"?
18:26 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«Failed allocation of 2345205760 bytes␤Parrot VM: PANIC: Out of mem!␤C file src/gc/gc_gms.c, line 1974␤Parrot file (not available), line (not available)␤␤We highly suggest you notify the Parrot team if you have not been working on␤Parrot.  Use…»
18:32 [Coke] lizmat++
18:36 ajr joined #perl6
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19:12 smls joined #perl6
19:13 smls Hi
19:17 FROGGS[mobile] Hi smls
19:17 smls What's the best way to start playing around with Perl 6?
19:17 smls Raduko Star?
19:18 FROGGS[mobile] yes, that and maybe read the Advent calender posts
19:27 * [Coke] wonders if anyone has fixed hte jvm eval server leak.
19:30 diakopter no
19:30 pdurbin smls: what operating system are you on?
19:31 smls 64bit Linux
19:31 pdurbin on Fedora you can just yum install it
19:32 nwc10 how old is the version that yum installs?
19:33 bartolin joined #perl6
19:34 * pdurbin starts installing it
19:35 pdurbin nwc10: rakudo-star-0.0.2013.09_5.5.0-1.fc19.x86_64
19:35 nwc10 not that old
19:35 pdurbin of course, I assume there's a newer version in Fedora 20
19:35 FROGGS[mobile] nice
19:36 smls pdurbin: My distro (Arch Linux) has a raduko-2013.11 package in the inofficial user repository, I'm installing it now
19:36 pdurbin smls: cool
19:36 smls (it compiles from source, so it's taking a while)
19:39 bartolin left #perl6
19:52 bartolin joined #perl6
19:54 kurahaupo_mobile joined #perl6
19:58 lue hello world o/
20:05 colomon \o
20:10 woolfy TimToady: subject to write advent blog for the 24th about: a state of Perl 6 from your view, most important things that have changed.  Just an idea.
20:12 woolfy TimToady: if you got the energy to write such a book (re:  FROGGS "some sort of "why I designed it that way" or so would be awesome"): such a book would really be awesome and I would buy quite a pile to sell them at Perl-events
20:22 * rjbs pants, only three more days to make it through!
20:29 smls Is there a way to tell the .perl method to deparse the contents of code references for debugging purpuses?
20:30 smls p: my $code = sub ($x) { $x + 20 }; say $code.perl;
20:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«sub($x) { ... }␤»
20:30 timotimo we don't have that i'm afraid
20:30 smls Perl 5's Data::Dumper supports this
20:30 timotimo what does it look like? does it give you the source code?
20:30 timotimo or does it give you a parse tree or something like that?
20:31 timotimo we have --target=parse to get a parse tree, --target=ast to get an AST and --target=pir to get parrot intermediate representation output
20:32 timotimo ah, i see, Data::Dumper would give you the perl5 source code of the thing you're after
20:33 timotimo on rakudo, you can find any method or sub that doesn't start with nqp:: in gen/p-CORE.setting which is perl6 code
20:33 timotimo (the code in the core setting uses some low-level primitives, those are the ones starting with nqp::)
20:36 smls timotimo: It would output Perl source code as generated by B:Deparse
20:37 smls for example: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=iy6MFBqL
20:37 timotimo ah. yes, we don't have something like that
20:38 smls ok
20:49 rurban1 joined #perl6
20:58 GlitchMr <smls> pdurbin: My distro (Arch Linux) has a raduko-2013.11 package in the inofficial user repository, I'm installing it now
20:58 GlitchMr You mean AUR?
20:58 smls yes
20:58 GlitchMr Also, I just downloaded Rakudo Perl on Fedora 20. I'm surprised, it's just 6.2MB.
20:58 tgt joined #perl6
21:00 thou joined #perl6
21:00 GlitchMr (it even includes panda, but it's not in PATH for some reason - under /usr/lib64/parrot/5.5.0/languages/perl6/bin)
21:01 timotimo r: try eval "my Int a = 10"; say $!.WHAT
21:01 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«(X::Comp::Group)␤»
21:01 timotimo r: try eval "my Int a = 10"; say $!
21:01 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'Int' is not declared. Did you mean 'int'?â�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 10[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 10[0mâ�¤    expecting any…»
21:01 timotimo hm.
21:02 timotimo r: try eval "my Int a = 10"; say $!.sorrows>>.WHAT;
21:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
21:02 timotimo r: try eval "my Int a = 10"; say $!.sorrows.map: *.WHAT;
21:02 camelia rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«No such method 'count' for invocant of type 'Whatever'␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7255␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7167␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7167␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7167␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.…»
21:02 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«No such method 'count' for invocant of type 'Whatever'␤  in method reify at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:7266␤  in method reify at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:7183␤  in method reify at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:7183␤  in method reify at gen/parrot/CORE.sett…»
21:02 timotimo wow, whoops
21:02 timotimo r: try eval "my Int a = 10"; say $!.sorrows.map: { .WHAT };
21:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«(X::Undeclared)␤»
21:03 timotimo r: try eval "my Int a = 10"; say $!.panic;
21:03 camelia rakudo-parrot 1049b4, rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling eval_0â�¤Malformed myâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma = 10[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scoped declaratorâ�¤Â»
21:03 kivutar joined #perl6
21:04 lue GlitchMr: just so you know, that is expected behavior.
21:05 timotimo what exactly?
21:05 timotimo the panda path?
21:06 dalek rakudo/nom: 57a89f4 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
21:06 dalek rakudo/nom: suggest \ for sigilless var declarations
21:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/57a89f4605
21:07 timotimo oh, hm.
21:07 timotimo r: my Int a;
21:07 camelia rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'Int' is not declared. Did you mean 'int'?â�¤at /tmp/UAOQdAw0Cc:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/UAOQdAw0Cc:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤     …»
21:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'Int' is not declared. Did you mean 'int'?â�¤at /tmp/bbmDyHIvCd:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/bbmDyHIvCd:1â�¤------> [32mmy Int [33mâ��[31ma;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤  â€¦Â»
21:07 timotimo right. that needs a fix, too.
21:08 lue timotimo: yes, that is what I meant.
21:08 GlitchMr Huh? But Int does exist.
21:08 GlitchMr Is it because of forgotten sigil?
21:09 timotimo yes.
21:09 timotimo i'm working on it :)
21:09 GlitchMr If I change this to int, it suggests me to use Int. Help, I'm trapped in recursion factory.
21:09 timotimo you'll have a fix on your hands very soon
21:10 timotimo need to rebuild some stuff first and then test my fix
21:12 timotimo r: my foobar = 5;
21:12 camelia rakudo-jvm 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'foobar' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/DvKDIvrObv:1â�¤------> [32mmy foobar[33mâ��[31m = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/DvKDIvrObv:1â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31mfoobar = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scope…»
21:12 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1049b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'foobar' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/6BjM0tc5mO:1â�¤------> [32mmy foobar[33mâ��[31m = 5;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/6BjM0tc5mO:1â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31mfoobar = 5;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        sc…»
21:12 timotimo i could give a better error message there, too.
21:18 xenoterracide joined #perl6
21:19 timotimo wow, just 98 seconds for a stage parse on my desktop. that was one second more recently
21:19 GlitchMr foobar is not a type here.
21:20 timotimo that's right
21:20 timotimo as i said, i want to make it emit a better error.
21:20 timotimo just some final touches on this code and it'll be ready to push
21:21 GlitchMr I would think that user wanted to create a local variable called foobar, not that he forgot to name a variable.
21:21 GlitchMr Unless "foobar" would be name of the type, assume it's a local variable, not a type.
21:22 GlitchMr my Int = 5; # forgot variable name
21:22 GlitchMr my foobar = 5; # forgot a sigil
21:23 timotimo yes, i know all of this!
21:28 * timotimo fights surprising NPMCA issues
21:36 timotimo ah, i forgot to force the grammar to generate the $/
21:40 masak 'evenin', #perl6
21:42 timotimo i can still get it to null pmc access in get_string :(
21:42 timotimo hey masak :)
21:43 timotimo are you giving us t4 reviews for christmas? :D
21:43 denisboyun joined #perl6
21:44 masak timotimo: that would be quite awesome, wouldn't it?
21:44 masak in the spirit of Perl 6, I'm not going to make any promises :)
21:44 timotimo :)
21:44 timotimo but perl6 does have Promises now!
21:44 masak but it might be good to know that I haven't dropped t4; just haven't had tuits for p6cc at all.
21:44 masak timotimo: Perl 6 makes Promises -- the core devs don't :)
21:46 timotimo :)
21:46 masak TimToady: topic suggestion: "40-Year Desert Journey Best Practices" :D
21:46 timotimo r: my int;
21:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 57a89f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'int' is not declared. Did you mean 'Int'?â�¤at /tmp/2T4Rv9mMCv:1â�¤------> [32mmy int[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/2T4Rv9mMCv:1â�¤------> [32mmy int[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤      â€¦Â»
21:46 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 57a89f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Type 'int' is not declared. Did you mean 'Int'?â�¤at /tmp/f0cA47V4Il:1â�¤------> [32mmy int[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤Malformed myâ�¤at /tmp/f0cA47V4Il:1â�¤------> [32mmy int[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        s…»
21:47 timotimo dang, where does the null pmca come from?
21:48 timotimo oh, does it only happen in the repl?
21:49 timotimo yes, indeed. huh!
21:49 thou joined #perl6
21:58 timotimo well, that kind of sucks :(
21:59 timotimo should i say "well, in compiled code and in the tests it works just fine!" or should i go hunt for some regression that only happens in our repl?
22:03 kurahaupo_mobile joined #perl6
22:04 masak rn: sub infix_prefix_meta_operator:<!!!>($op) {}; say "alive"
22:04 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Cannot extend category:infix_prefix_meta_operator with subs at /tmp/JTWvE0IR5a line 1:â�¤------> [32msub infix_prefix_meta_operator:<!!!>[33mâ��[31m($op) {}; say "alive"[0mâ�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  $op i…»
22:04 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 57a89f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/WbpLnETYOUâ�¤Cannot add tokens of category 'infix_prefix_meta_operator'â�¤at /tmp/WbpLnETYOU:1â�¤------> [32msub infix_prefix_meta_operator:<!!!>[33mâ��[31m($op) {}; say "alive"[0mâ�¤    expec…»
22:04 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 57a89f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/bYcpvoy6riâ�¤Cannot add tokens of category 'infix_prefix_meta_operator'â�¤at /tmp/bYcpvoy6ri:1â�¤------> [32msub infix_prefix_meta_operator:<!!!>[33mâ��[31m($op) {}; say "alive"[0mâ�¤    expectin…»
22:04 masak aww
22:06 denisboyun joined #perl6
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22:13 denis_boyun joined #perl6
22:16 jeff_s1 joined #perl6
22:18 masak tomorrow's advent post: https://gist.github.com/masak/3e1c8697e27672efe7de
22:18 * masak puts it into wordpress
22:19 denis_boyun__ joined #perl6
22:22 masak "Word count: 666" -- oops
22:22 masak I'll take that as a good sign ;)
22:25 jnap joined #perl6
22:31 masak post scheduled.
22:31 masak 'night, #perl6
22:36 denis_boyun joined #perl6
22:44 lizmat masak++
22:44 lizmat and also gnight #perl6!
22:45 bbkr joined #perl6
22:47 dalek mu: df82f79 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | misc/perl6advent-2013/schedule:
22:47 dalek mu: TimToady++
22:47 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/df82f79f66
23:02 lue timotimo: At least way back when, the REPL was frequently an unreliable source of problem-hunting in Perl 6. Don't know how true that still is.
23:02 denis_boyun joined #perl6
23:04 timotimo mhm
23:13 lue Wow. Wp's formatting of <pre> blocks (at least in the advent blog's theme) makes the font so small for me, the tildes look like hyphens :/
23:17 lue masak++ for the blog post.
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