Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-12-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:02 diakopter lue: what step is next? :)
00:03 lue build & testing. Takes a while :)
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01:07 lue can anyone look this over and tell me if any of these errors need to be dealt with?    https://gist.github.com/lue/422c00aa994f82dd22b7
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01:07 lue (the filestat.t failure is because I have a noatime mount)
01:11 lue Looks fine to me, at least.
01:14 lue O.o perl6-lwp-simple fails magnificently
01:18 diakopter lue: are you sure you had libicu installed?
01:18 lue jsonrpc fails too. It's thanks to a "missing or wrong version of dependency" of MIME/Base64/PIR.pm6. Not sure why.
01:19 lue diakopter: updated gist with modules-test failures
01:20 lue ✘ ⑩ modules-test failed
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01:22 * lue &
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03:04 lue hello again o/
03:06 lue So, no-one yet can point me in a direction to this failure? :/
03:10 lue oh, huh. Looks like `make install` fails on precompiling the offending modules. I just didn't catch that earlier it seems.
03:11 lue (LWP::Simple has the same "missing or wrong version" error as the tests, while JSON::RPC needs LWP precompiled to work.)
03:14 TimToady timotimo: in the normal Perl 6 RC page, the link to the unimplemented tasks is on the right in the Your Help Needed box
03:14 [Coke] lue: did make test work for the updated lwp-simple in teh R* release?
03:15 [Coke] I mentioned that a few days ago in here, see you tripped over it too.
03:16 lue [Coke]: *updated* lwp-simple...? /me checks the logs for LWP
03:16 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 08b25ec | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
03:16 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
03:16 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/08b25ec69e
03:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: 609f1cf | coke++ | / (6 files):
03:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
03:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/609f1cf206
03:16 [Coke] lue: i just mean latest.
03:16 lue last commit from 23 Nov
03:17 lue yeah, seems to be latest
03:19 lue [Coke]: I'll remember to check the R* runs before complaining next time, so I at least know more when I do :)
03:20 lue do you recall how you fixed it?
03:21 [Coke] I never fixed anything. I just reported the failure... and I see it's gone in today's daily run
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03:21 [Coke] last failed on Sat Dec 21 15:27:47 2013
03:21 [Coke] had at least 2 days where it was working.
03:22 [Coke] (including today)
03:22 lue *headdesk* I just _knew_ this was why updating the MIME::Base64 module was troublesome earlier. I just _knew_ this error was the reason behind that. And now I have proof :)
03:22 lue http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-11-23#i_7905580 <-- evidence, for the curious
03:23 [Coke] (when I asked if you fixed it, I didn't realize my daily run had cleared up.)
03:24 lue .oO(the insidious part of the error is that it's the things *using* ::Base64, not the module itself, that fail. Which would make git blame and related strategies a bit more involved.)
03:24 lue ...I'm gonna need to make 2013.12.1 tag for R*, aren't I? :)
03:28 lue oh, nvm, tagging doesn't happen yet. phew.
03:31 [Coke] you only need to make a .1 tag if you made a non .1 tag already
03:35 lue [Coke]: yeah, like I said, my brain got muddled for a second :)
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04:05 * lue is busy trying to find a command that will leave MIME::Base64 alone in the next release cycle
04:09 lue Hrm. The only solution I've seen so far is a linux-specific [ test ] for the foreach command :/
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04:26 dalek star: 2a5ed8f | lue++ | modules/Perl6-MIME-Base64:
04:26 dalek star: Revert Perl6::MIME::Base64 to working commit.
04:26 dalek star:
04:26 dalek star: moritz had fixed this last month, I just didn't know about it when I
04:26 dalek star: updated this module.
04:26 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/2a5ed8f9b3
04:26 dalek star: 2b96edf | lue++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
04:26 dalek star: Update release guide to deal with Perl6::MIME::Base64
04:26 dalek star:
04:26 dalek star: There's no easy way to modify the existing submodule command to skip
04:26 dalek star: Perl6::MIME::Base64, in a cross-platform way. So instead presented here
04:26 dalek star: is a way to fix Perl6::MIME::Base64 getting a merge commit.
04:26 dalek star:
04:26 dalek star: The sooner we don't need this addition to the Release Guide, the better.
04:26 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/2b96edf76b
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04:36 lue ✔ ⑨ generate tarball (again)
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06:08 * moritz wishes everybody a good and merry UGT Christmas Even morning
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11:04 finanalyst r: my @s=(0,1,0.5,0.4)[^3]; my @t=((0,1,0.5,0.4) xx 1)[^3]; @s.say;@t.say
11:04 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0 1 0.5␤0 1 0.5 0.4␤»
11:04 finanalyst should both be the same I think
11:06 finanalyst r: my @s=(0,1,0.5,0.4)[^3]; my @t=((0,1,0.5,0.4) xx 1)[^3]; say @s == @t
11:06 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«False␤»
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15:47 raydiak good morning, #perl6
15:48 moritz good morning, raydiak
15:48 diakopter good morning, self
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16:00 raydiak http://cyberuniverses.com/pray/#pray-image-9 - hopefully the last pic before code release (which is what I said last time, but I couldn't help myself)
16:03 timotimo csg \o/
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16:04 moritz raydiak++
16:04 timotimo is your nickname raydiak because you do raytracing?
16:04 moritz raydiak: if you release the code tomorrow, you can post the announcement as day 25 of the advent calendar :-)
16:05 raydiak timotimo: sorta, but it's more based on my real name..."Ray" is literally my middle name :)
16:05 diakopter diak is your last name?
16:05 raydiak moritz: I thought all the days were gone now...???...
16:05 diakopter opter is timotimo's middle name
16:06 moritz raydiak: well, advent calendars typically only go to 24, which is why only the days upto 24 are taken
16:06 moritz raydiak: but there wouldn't be any harm in adding another day :-)
16:06 raydiak diakopter: ha ha :) it's too early for me to come up with anything clever to answer that with
16:07 raydiak moritz: oh right...well, that's a thought; I do have half a day of peace to myself
16:07 diakopter early in the human eon
16:09 raydiak that too
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16:33 timotimo diakopter: my first and last name are both timo
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17:21 colomon raydiak++ # !!!!!!!
17:23 raydiak thanks :) that's the impression I was going for
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17:28 colomon raydiak: I look forward to having the time to check it out more completely.  busy desperately cleaning the house at the moment.  :)
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17:32 raydiak colomon: it looks better from a distance anyway...then you don't notice as much that it doesn't do internal reflection, subsurface scattering, or caustics yet
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17:46 colomon raydiak: I'm sure those features can wait till next week.  ;)
17:47 colomon raydiak: what's your output format?
17:48 raydiak colomon: just ppm right now
17:56 timotimo are the times terrible? :)
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17:58 raydiak quite :) but I haven't made any attempt to profile or optimize yet, other than to keep it possible to work on in reasonable amounts of time
17:59 timotimo right
17:59 timotimo if you find something that should be much faster, feel free to ping me; i'm always interested in doing little optimizations
17:59 timotimo something that obviously should be faster ;)
18:00 timotimo as in: easy to prove at compile time :P
18:00 Mouq finalanyst: re: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-12-24#i_8036731
18:00 Mouq r: my @s=(0,1,0.5,0.4)[^3]; my @t=((0,1,0.5,0.4) xx 1)[0][^3]; @s.say;@t.say
18:00 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0 1 0.5␤0 1 0.5␤»
18:01 Mouq r: my @t=((0,1,0.5,0.4) xx 1); @t.perl.say
18:01 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«Array.new(0, 1, 0.5, 0.4)␤»
18:01 Mouq hm :?
18:01 Mouq r: my @t=(0,1,0.5,0.4); @t.perl.say
18:01 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«Array.new(0, 1, 0.5, 0.4)␤»
18:02 Mouq hrm
18:02 timotimo so the (0,1,0.5,0.4) xx 1 generates a LoL?
18:02 timotimo r: ((0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx 1).perl.say
18:02 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«((0, 1, 0.5, 0.4),).list␤»
18:02 timotimo yeah
18:02 timotimo r: ((0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx 2).perl.say
18:02 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«((0, 1, 0.5, 0.4), (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4)).list␤»
18:02 timotimo and you expect the [^3] to flatten the LoL before accessing?
18:03 timotimo kind of makes sense; it already says .list at the end
18:03 timotimo and the .list of that should be flat
18:04 raydiak timotimo: I'll be sure to let you know if I notice anything obvious when I start profiling (if japhb doesn't beat me to it...he mentioned a "barely contained obsession with optimizing 3D graphics code")
18:04 Mouq timotimo: I feel the way it is probably good for consistancy though, e.g., (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx $i
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18:04 timotimo :D
18:06 timotimo Mouq: well, the thing is that the postcircumfix seems to disregard the list context it seems to be in
18:06 timotimo r: for (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx 2 { say $_ }
18:06 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0␤1␤0.5␤0.4␤0␤1␤0.5␤0.4␤»
18:06 timotimo in a for loop you have to .tree it in order to get two iterations out of that
18:06 timotimo r: for (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx 1 { say $_ }
18:06 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0␤1␤0.5␤0.4␤»
18:07 timotimo same here
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18:07 timotimo it could be argued that it's a bug that postcircumfix:<[ ]> doesn't evaluate it in the list context like a for loop would
18:08 Mouq r: for (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4), (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) { say $_ }
18:08 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0␤1␤0.5␤0.4␤0␤1␤0.5␤0.4␤»
18:09 Mouq r: ((0, 1, 0.5, 0.4), (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4)).perl.say
18:09 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«((0, 1, 0.5, 0.4), (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4))␤»
18:09 timotimo interestingly, it doesn't output .list there
18:10 timotimo i'm not 100% sure how all that really works inside; and also pmichaud said he'd do a full revision of the list synopsis
18:11 colomon raydiak: you haven't posted the source yet?
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18:45 raydiak colomon: no, but any day now
18:51 lue hello world o/
18:51 raydiak \o
18:53 lue ✔ ⑩ Test tarball
18:57 lue ✔ ⑪ tag 2013.12 release
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18:59 lue could someone with the proper permission scp the tarball for R* to the rakudo.org location? The MD5 of the tarball on my end is c0b4f1b780182530c6714f01cf36d87b .
19:00 lue (posting the release announcement to rakudo.org is also something I can't do.)
19:04 Rotwang I know that I've asked it already, but have you considered making this process more automatic?
19:05 TimToady It's hard to automate the WTF bits.
19:06 lue Rotwang: Perl6::MIME::Base64 would've been *very* fun this month on automation :)
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19:14 Ulti if I wish to map a list to triplets from that list what is a perl6ism for this that returns the new list using something like   for @list -> $a,$b,$c {}  works but is there something like map that consumes more thna one value?
19:15 timotimo isn't for the same as map, basically? :P
19:17 timotimo i'm confused; why isn't eqat available in the stage0s? we recently rebuilt the stage0s :(
19:18 Ulti I dunno I just tried   map {"$^a$^b$^c"}, @list and it didn't work out
19:18 timotimo i just mean: why not use that exact for?
19:18 Ulti because its a bit unwieldy
19:19 timotimo well, use the for just to make triplets then?
19:22 Mouq Ulti: the map you wrote works fine for me, latest perl
19:22 Mouq r: map {"$^a$^b$^c"}, (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx 3
19:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: ( no output )
19:22 Mouq r: say map {"$^a$^b$^c"}, (0, 1, 0.5, 0.4) xx 3
19:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«010.5 0.401 0.50.40 10.50.4␤»
19:22 Mouq r: say map ->$a, $b?, $c? {"$a$b$c"}, 0, 1, 0.5, 0.4
19:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context  in block  at /tmp/kbpOETfyA1:1␤␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context  in block  at /tmp/kbpOETfyA1:1␤␤010.5 0.4␤»
19:22 camelia ..rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤010.5 0.4␤»
19:22 TimToady r: .say for map -> $a, $b, $c { "$a$b$c" }, 1..9
19:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«123␤456␤789␤»
19:23 TimToady r: .say for map *~*~*, 1..9
19:23 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«123␤456␤789␤»
19:23 Ulti weird
19:25 Ulti ahh ok its that I used    @list X @list X @list  without surrounding ()
19:26 TimToady yes, that includes the {} in the first list :)
19:27 Ulti makes sense
19:28 TimToady r: .say for map *~*~*, list <a b c> X <a b c> X <a b c>
19:28 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«aaa␤aab␤aac␤aba␤abb␤abc␤aca␤acb␤acc␤baa␤bab␤bac␤bba␤bbb␤bbc␤bca␤bcb␤bcc␤caa␤cab␤cac␤cba␤cbb␤cbc␤cca␤ccb␤ccc␤»
19:28 TimToady anything that drops precedence will work
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19:32 TimToady r: .say for map *~*~* <== <a b c> X <a b c> X <a b c>
19:32 Ulti neat
19:32 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«aaa␤aab␤aac␤aba␤abb␤abc␤aca␤acb␤acc␤baa␤bab␤bac␤bba␤bbb␤bbc␤bca␤bcb␤bcc␤caa␤cab␤cac␤cba␤cbb␤cbc␤cca␤ccb␤ccc␤»
19:33 TimToady though that might not continue to work if rakudo actually treats it as a statement sep
19:33 timotimo i'm glad this isn't a bug in perl6 or rakudo, and instead just works
19:34 TimToady r: <a b c> X <a b c> X <a b c> ==> map *~*~* ==> map *.say
19:34 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«aaa␤aab␤aac␤aba␤abb␤abc␤aca␤acb␤acc␤baa␤bab␤bac␤bba␤bbb␤bbc␤bca␤bcb␤bcc␤caa␤cab␤cac␤cba␤cbb␤cbc␤cca␤ccb␤ccc␤»
19:34 TimToady that should continue to work, I think
19:34 TimToady unless we require .map someday, which istr jnthn++ suggesting at one point
19:36 TimToady errands &
19:54 Ulti btw this is what I'm working on https://gist.github.com/MattOates/8117240
19:55 Ulti not sure if that is gross or nice... I get what is going on and it's elegant but perhaps not simple
19:58 timotimo Ulti: [X] (@!bases xx 3) :D
20:00 timotimo Ulti: i like your use of the whatever star in the aminos array, as the sequences that would generate them don't exist (is my guess anyway)
20:00 Ulti timotimo I dont think that does what I want..?
20:00 Ulti maybe it does
20:00 timotimo although it's not *actually* a whatever star :)
20:00 Ulti oh thats the symbol for a 'stop' codon
20:01 timotimo oh
20:01 timotimo ok
20:01 timotimo also, a list of one-digit strings should .Str the same way it would .join(""), no?
20:01 timotimo r: <foo bar baz>.Str.say
20:01 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«foo bar baz␤»
20:01 timotimo r: <foo bar baz>.gist.say
20:01 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«foo bar baz␤»
20:01 timotimo no, that's not it
20:04 timotimo r: my %foo = <a b c d e f g> Z=> (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7); my $a = "c"; say %foo<<$a>>
20:04 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:04 colomon raydiak: if you want someone to look at it before you show it to the general public…. ;)
20:04 timotimo Ulti: you can replace {" ... "} with << ... >>
20:04 Ulti k k
20:05 timotimo to completely confuse anyone ever :)
20:05 Ulti the [X] (@list xx 3) is a no go though since its not three lists but one list made from three appended by the looks of it
20:05 timotimo also i think your Str @!bases would look better with < ... > syntax as well
20:06 Ulti timotimo yeah I realise I could make some epic single line :)
20:06 timotimo no, i think that really would look nicer :)
20:06 Ulti I meant more the Z=> sorry
20:07 timotimo oh? no, i just needed a hash to test if <<>> will interoplate and turn into postcircumfix:<{ }>
20:07 timotimo and i thought Z=> was the shortest way
20:07 Ulti ohhh
20:07 timotimo in the same vein, i could have written Z=> 1..*, or even used <a b c d e f g>.kv
20:08 timotimo hm. i wonder if there's a reason to have .vk and .sriap, too
20:09 Ulti <<>> is blowing up
20:09 Ulti type Any in string context :S
20:09 timotimo oh?
20:09 timotimo gimme a sec.
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20:11 timotimo r: my %foo; (given {%foo<<$^a$^b>>} { .WHAT, .arity }).say
20:11 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«(Block) 2␤»
20:12 Ulti yeah thats what I have... hmm
20:12 timotimo weird. can you update the gist with your exact code?
20:12 Ulti really it would be nice to get rid of the {} to have something as expressive as the previous map *~*~*
20:13 timotimo grondilu also suggested the [X~] $@!bases xx 3
20:13 Ulti timotimo yup one second
20:13 timotimo that's wicked concise
20:13 timotimo the $ prefix to turn the list into being item context is pretty slick
20:13 timotimo i should remember todo that more often
20:14 Ulti done
20:14 Ulti ahh so that gets you a reference to the list and then 3 of those
20:14 Ulti yeah thats nice though the plan wasnt to golf lol
20:14 Ulti I like it though
20:15 timotimo "reference to" isn't a good way to say it, IMO
20:15 timotimo oh hey
20:16 timotimo your join, map, comb looks just like a .trans
20:17 Ulti hmmm $@!bases throws up too
20:18 Ulti "Unsupported use of $@ variable as eval error; in Perl 6 please use $!"
20:18 timotimo whoops, that's a bug.
20:18 * timotimo has a look at the grammar
20:19 Ulti $(@!bases) does work
20:19 grondilu joined #perl6
20:19 Ulti which I got via the usefule message: Unsupported use of ${@!bases}; in Perl 6 please use $(@!bases)
20:20 timotimo m)
20:20 Ulti so in Perl5 that would be scalar context... scalar context means the object representing a list type?
20:20 grondilu weird.  $@ works fine here (rakudo star november)
20:21 Ulti This is perl6 version 2013.09 built on parrot 5.5.0 revision 0
20:21 grondilu r: my @a = rand xx 2; say $@a
20:21 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797: OUTPUT«0.249971135842742 0.298091508719278␤»
20:21 camelia ..rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0.1677135985885968 0.2767544824499587␤»
20:21 timotimo interestingly the rule to find $@ looks for \W, '(' or a sigil
20:21 timotimo wow, ulti, that's old!
20:21 Ulti grondilu: might be the class variableness
20:21 Ulti timotimo: heh yeah :P
20:21 Ulti I am on my work laptop rather than my personal one (xmas)
20:22 timotimo it b0rks on my local version, too
20:22 Ulti so what is $(@list) doing?
20:22 Ulti because it feels different from what you might imagine from Perl5
20:23 timotimo it's the same as @list.item
20:23 timotimo afterwards, @list will not interpolate
20:23 timotimo r: say (1, 2, (3, 4, 5), 6, 7).list.perl; say (1, 2, $(3, 4, 5), 6, 7).list.perl
20:23 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«(1, 2, (3, 4, 5), 6, 7).list␤(1, 2, $(3, 4, 5), 6, 7).list␤»
20:23 grondilu also, you can do:  return %codon_table{map *~*~*, $!seq.uc.comb}.join
20:23 timotimo oh, excuse me, .perl will still give you its structure
20:24 timotimo r: .say for (1, 2, (3, 4, 5), 6, 7).list; .say for (1, 2, $(3, 4, 5), 6, 7).list
20:24 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤1␤2␤3 4 5␤6␤7␤»
20:24 timotimo you see how there's no newlines between the second 3, 4, 5?
20:25 timotimo that's the effect $... and ....item have on lists
20:25 Ulti okedoke but what $($string)
20:25 Ulti is it just meaningless
20:25 timotimo no change, $string is already in item context, because it is in a $-sigiled variable
20:26 grondilu r: my $x = rand; say $$$$$$$$$$$$x
20:26 camelia rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«0.4587225161057409␤»
20:26 camelia ..rakudo-parrot d72797: OUTPUT«0.276195594432892␤»
20:26 grondilu ;-)
20:26 timotimo that's also why we have \ sigil-less variables; these don't have an item/list context or anything like that
20:26 timotimo grondilu: oh shit! it behaves differently on our two backends!
20:26 timotimo time to throw one away!
20:26 Ulti hmmm so scalars feel refrency
20:26 timotimo i have no past with perl5 or earlier.
20:27 timotimo no history*
20:27 Ulti so is something like $list = (1,2,3)  a list thats always in item context?
20:27 * grondilu should remember to avoid using rand for value examples when calling r:
20:27 timotimo yeah
20:28 grondilu r: my $a = (1, 2, 3); .say for $a, 4, 5, 6
20:28 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤4␤5␤6␤»
20:28 grondilu r: my $a = (1, 2, 3); .say for @$a, 4, 5, 6
20:28 timotimo anyone else think the evalbot should write ␤ instead of just ␤?
20:28 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤»
20:29 Ulti http://doc.perl6.org/type/Str doesn't have .trans :P
20:29 * Ulti reads the real docs
20:32 sergot Hi! o/
20:33 Ulti hello
20:33 jnap joined #perl6
20:33 Ulti timotimo: yeah that would be a little easier to read
20:33 sergot Christmas gift from poznan.pm: http://act.yapc.eu/plpw2014/ ! :)
20:33 timotimo Ulti: it may be in Cool instead of Str
20:34 Ulti yeah I looked in Cool too
20:34 Ulti its in Str in the core shizzle in Rakudo
20:34 timotimo it's mentioned there, but there's nothing about it here
20:34 Ulti reading the source rather than the docs
20:34 timotimo mhm, yeah
20:35 timotimo it's in the synopses in any case.
20:36 Ulti I think maybe the docs.perl6.org hasn't been rebuilt in a while
20:36 Ulti or is it not coming from the source code?
20:37 Ulti also I cant believe I forgot about [X~] considering I used it to make some decks of cards only a few months ago
20:37 timotimo i do think it comes from the source code
20:38 timotimo er, doesn't it come from the docs/ folder?
20:38 Ulti yeah I doubt its the actual source because there aren't any pod comments
20:38 Ulti or comments...
20:39 retupmoc1 re: MIME::Base64 and R* - the problem is that precompilation breaks somehow on the conditional require
20:39 timotimo that's right
20:39 timotimo the core setting is already painfully slow to compile
20:39 retupmoc1 without precompilation, everything works correctly
20:39 timotimo if we also parsed Pod6 inside it ... ouch
20:39 SoemGyu joined #perl6
20:40 timotimo i know for a fact that there's still lots to be optimized in the pod6 parsing we do.
20:40 Ulti timotimo use a perl5 script to strip it all and mangle variable names to be short like JS "compilers"
20:40 timotimo well, to be honest ... i tried to optimize it and didn't get any wins
20:40 timotimo they are actually called "uglifiers", at least i heard that name used often enough.
20:40 lue retupmoc1: yeah, I read the commit on the precompile-fix branch :)
20:40 Ulti heh
20:41 retupmoca lue: I thought you probably had, but I wanted to make sure
20:41 Ulti or obfuscators
20:41 retupmoca since iirc moritz spent a lot of time figuring out what was going on last time
20:42 lue I can imagine figuring it out wasn't very fun for moritz++
20:44 lue pmichaud, jnthn, masak, PerlJam, tadzik, moritz: if one of you could scp the 2013.12 R* tarball (md5sum c0b4f1b780182530c6714f01cf36d87b) and post the release announcment on rakudo.org, that'd be great :)
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21:00 timotimo oh
21:01 timotimo $@ wins out over $(@!foobar) even though the latter is longer (this is LTM), because it matches earlier.
21:02 timotimo i'll add a lookahead that makes sure we're not actually looking at $@!... before we throw out the error.
21:02 Ulti timotimo++
21:03 timotimo std: class foobar { has @!bases; method frob { say $@!bases } };
21:03 Ulti also I am failing to "get" inheritance in P6 ;_;
21:03 camelia std 4731beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 125m␤»
21:03 * timotimo looks at STD before changing rakudo
21:04 timotimo do you want to open a rakudobug so i can tag the test for it?
21:04 Ulti thought it would be easy to make a DNA or RNA sequence subclass where just the @!bases list was different :S
21:04 Ulti timotimo can do if you step me through opening one which I imagine starts with me getting an account to submit a ticket
21:04 timotimo @! is private
21:05 Ulti what so a subclass can't define it?
21:05 timotimo if you want to override the way @!bases behaves from a subclass, you have to go through an accessor that gets overrided
21:05 timotimo you can't define it?
21:05 Ulti yeah but the methods from the super class use the undefined one
21:05 timotimo you should just be unable to access the superclass' one, no?
21:06 timotimo from the subclass, that is
21:06 Ulti I also tried making it @. but it didnt change anything
21:06 timotimo it should; but you have to access them with @. as well
21:06 Ulti its more the methods are in the super class and I wanted the sublcasses to just define a different parameter
21:06 timotimo if you access them with @!, you'll end up accessing the private one of either the subclass or the superclass
21:06 Ulti yeah no thats what I did... I'll keep playing
21:06 timotimo can you update the gist so i have something concrete to look at?
21:07 Ulti oh I must have missed one before
21:07 Ulti just tried again ;]
21:07 Ulti its working now
21:07 timotimo \o/
21:08 Ulti win
21:08 * timotimo is always glad to help
21:09 timotimo oh, the last thing grondilu suggested is also nice
21:09 timotimo using a list indexing on the codon table
21:11 timotimo hah
21:12 timotimo rakudo has <?before \W | '(' | <sigil> > and STD has <!before \w | '(' | <sigil> >
21:17 timotimo Ulti: are you going to file the bug about $@! for me?
21:17 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:19 timotimo r: use Test; eval_lives_ok '$omg';
21:19 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤# Error: Variable '$omg' is not declared␤»
21:19 moritz lue: where's the tarball?
21:20 timotimo fröhliche weihnachten, moritz :)
21:20 moritz timotimo: ebenso :-)
21:21 timotimo Ulti: i'll file the bug if you don't want to.
21:21 kaare__ joined #perl6
21:21 lue moritz: I gave you an md5sum so I didn't have to find a place to put it :P . (If I hadn't lost access to my feather account...)
21:22 moritz lue: since tarballs contain timestamps, I can't easily recreate a tarball with the same md5sum
21:23 lue oh. :/
21:26 lue moritz: would you mind terribly a 12MiB email?
21:26 moritz lue: yes, I would
21:26 * lue does not posses an off-hand way to store files, except perhaps Google Drive...
21:27 timotimo moritz: you could simply use the md5sum to bruteforce all timestamps
21:27 moritz lue: I'll rather recreate the file, and upload it for your inspection
21:27 lue moritz: sounds good.
21:27 moritz lue: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/rakudo-star-2013.12.tar.gz
21:28 * lue was almost tempted to post a Base64 text file gist :P
21:29 diakopter hee
21:29 timotimo hah
21:31 timotimo Ulti: i'm filing it now
21:33 raiph joined #perl6
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21:35 kivutar joined #perl6
21:37 timotimo actually. i can just put a test into the spectests without further documentation
21:39 kurahaupo_mobile joined #perl6
21:40 dalek roast: 0a9e8fb | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
21:40 dalek roast: ensure $@!foobar doesn't get parsed as $@ by accident.
21:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0a9e8fbf11
21:42 dalek rakudo/dont_carp_dollar_at_bang: 6d54dc8 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
21:42 dalek rakudo/dont_carp_dollar_at_bang: parse special_variable:<$@> just like STD does.
21:42 dalek rakudo/dont_carp_dollar_at_bang: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6d54dc88ac
21:43 * timotimo spectests that commit
21:45 * Ulti head asplodes from trying to do a super super class that checks the validity of input strings on construction
21:46 timotimo sounds like you just want to compose in a role, honestly
21:47 lue moritz: I should be able to tell you if the tarball is good in a few minutes :)
21:47 timotimo (that's the result i got from shaking my magic 6-ball :)) )
21:49 Ulti the problem I have is that once I have my own constructor the magic that overrides goes all to hell because in BUILD I do a bind to $!something rather than $.something
21:50 Ulti if a subclass has some defined values that were undefined in the super class do these just get mapped as if they were  variable => value passed in the call to new?
21:51 Ulti if I have a BUILD in the super class
21:51 * moritz -> sleep, R* upload will have to wait for tomorrow
21:52 timotimo need to get my power brick plugged into this laptop now
21:54 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
21:55 timotimo i don't understand why your BioInfo::Sequence just invariably dies
21:55 diakopter Death does what Death wants
21:57 timotimo Ulti: i think you want something like method residues { <T C A G> } instead of a member
21:58 timotimo alternatively, your DNA/RNA sequences could do a role Sequence[Str @residues]
21:59 Ulti timotimo: testing is why it invariably dies
22:04 timotimo anyway, i think you want something different from a member variable
22:04 timotimo it's a property of the class rather than of any one instance
22:04 timotimo so either do the method or the role?
22:05 aindilis joined #perl6
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 6d54dc8 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: parse special_variable:<$@> just like STD does.
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6d54dc88ac
22:10 timotimo Ulti: commit passes all spectests including the new one i made for the bug you found
22:11 timotimo Ulti: do i understand correctly that you want the sequence to be checked for wrong characters? like an X for example?
22:12 Ulti timotimo not sure I do want the role because some sequences wont be DNA ;)
22:12 Ulti or RNA and use residues which have a tonne of different operations on
22:12 timotimo hmm.
22:12 Ulti but the concept of a constrained alphabet common to them all is still true
22:13 timotimo in that case i'd go for a RestrictedToAlphabet role that has a @.alphabet or a method like that
22:13 timotimo now i'm thinking about what the smartest way to reject strings that have invalid characters in them is.
22:13 timotimo iirc, if you interpolate an array into a regex, it'll work like an LTM alteration
22:13 timotimo let me check that
22:14 timotimo r: my @alts = <foo bar baz>; "bar bar baz" ~~ m:s/ <@alts> +/
22:14 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: ( no output )
22:14 timotimo r: my @alts = <foo bar baz>; say "bar bar baz" ~~ m:s/ <@alts> +/
22:14 camelia rakudo-parrot d72797, rakudo-jvm d72797: OUTPUT«「bar bar baz」␤␤»
22:14 timotimo cool.
22:14 timotimo so you can just match for ^ <@.alphabet> $
22:16 Ulti yeah I already knew you can expand that list to be a character class I did it previously in a little grammar that parsed these sequences working out if it was DNA or RNA
22:16 Ulti well guessing
22:16 timotimo :)
22:17 timotimo for that i would have bag $foo.comb, tbh
22:19 Ulti well this was a grammar that parsed some of the file formats and it just had some rules that let it choose between the three depending on what matched
22:19 timotimo oh
22:19 timotimo well, in that case ... :)
22:20 Ulti so I'm trying to make some classes to build actual objects that are useful from the sequences parsed :)
22:25 lue preflex: tell moritz the only file to differ between the two tarballs is <tarball>/MANIFEST, and *I think* it's just that the sorting of files in them is different. I also don't spot any files that only appear in one tarball.
22:25 preflex Consider it noted.
22:25 timotimo lue: send the file through sort on both ends and diff the result
22:25 lue timotimo: I was just thinking of doing something like that.
22:26 timotimo unix, baby! :)
22:26 diakopter eunuchs, baby
22:26 timotimo a eunuch's baby?
22:26 timotimo that would appear, at first glance, to be unlikely
22:28 xenoterracide joined #perl6
22:29 lue I'm relieved, diff <(sort FILE1) <(sort FILE2) gave me no differences :)
22:29 timotimo \o/
22:30 timotimo you should preflex moritz that right away :)
22:30 lue preflex: tell moritz: Just confirmed it's a simple case of the files being listed in a different order in the MANIFESTs. Note that this was *just* the top-level MANIFEST; the others were precisely the same between tarballs.
22:30 preflex no
22:30 lue preflex: tell moritz Just confirmed it's a simple case of the files being listed in a different order in the MANIFESTs. Note that this was *just* the top-level MANIFEST; the others were precisely the same between tarballs.
22:30 preflex Consider it noted.
22:30 lue preflex: tell preflex to not be so rude next time.
22:30 preflex what
22:31 timotimo :D
22:32 lue .oO(My tarball-identicalness check falls apart if one file between two versions changes in such a way to not change the md5sum. Allow me to play with SHA1, just for fun.)
22:32 colomon joined #perl6
22:33 BenGoldberg lue, how often does one file change without changing it's md5sum?
22:34 timotimo especially "on accident" :)
22:34 lue BenGoldberg: rarely I would imagine. I just feel like playing with the script I made some more :D
22:34 BenGoldberg Well, that's ok then ;)
22:34 jnap joined #perl6
22:35 * lue should possibly get around to writing that Perl 6 SHA-3 thing sometime. After all, there's no sha3sum on his computer...
22:35 timotimo :D
22:35 timotimo i remember seeing a presentation on how keccak works
22:36 timotimo pretty nice
22:36 lue timotimo: yeah, I really liked trying to figure out it works a while ago. Of course, I've since forgotten everything :)
22:45 timotimo still taking suggestions for a topic i could hold a lightning talk on
22:47 lue timotimo: first thought that popped into my head was the time-bending properties of phasers. Would that fit in a lightning talk format?
22:48 timotimo only if i can hold the talk in the same time-bent format *and* show people it makes sense to do so
22:49 cognominal joined #perl6
22:49 lue :)
22:49 timotimo perl5 had phasers, too, right?
22:50 geekosaur sort of
22:50 lue idk
22:50 timotimo only very limited phasers?
22:50 lue .oO("The introductory material is stored in the penultimate slide *click* *click* *click* *click*")
22:50 geekosaur phasers are a more principled version of what perl5 has
22:51 timotimo well, one gag i could do is have a slide open that says BEGIN { say "it is now {now}" }; say "it is now { BEGIN now }"; say "it is now {now}"
22:51 timotimo and then say only two of those strings during the presentation
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23:15 timotimo i like the idea with the phasers more and more, but i think it'd give a huge "OMFG WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER WANT THIS IN A LANGUAGE" reaction
23:18 jnap joined #perl6
23:19 lue timotimo:    now - BEGIN now
23:19 lue :)
23:19 timotimo i know of that idiom
23:19 timotimo but still ...
23:20 timotimo the idea would probably be having slides that have phasers and reading/acting them out in the way they would be run if it were code
23:20 lue oh! Now I remember what trick I was trying to think of (which lead me to suggest phasers):  proto sub will-be-multi(|) { pre-stuff; {*} post-stuff; }
23:21 araujo joined #perl6
23:22 timotimo that should work, right?
23:24 lue timotimo: sounds like it could work
23:24 lue The KEEP/UNDO phasers seem like really interesting ones, by the way.
23:24 timotimo yes, they do
23:24 timotimo do you know python's "for ... else" construct?
23:24 timotimo and try ... except ... else?
23:25 lue timotimo: It's been a looong time since I've used Py3
23:25 timotimo that's in py2, too
23:25 lue .oO(Also good: CATCH is actually a phaser)
23:25 timotimo has been for a rather long time, i believe
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