Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2013-12-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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01:44 itz_ Merry Christmas Mr Potter!
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04:37 [Coke] (automate R*) - there's a daily run that builds one and tests it.
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04:52 * lue personally believes there's little in the process as it currently is that would benefit from automation
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06:42 moritz good morning
06:42 preflex moritz: you have 2 new messages. '/msg preflex messages' to read them.
06:42 moritz preflex: messages
06:42 preflex lue said 8 hours, 17 minutes and 11 seconds ago: the only file to differ between the two tarballs is <tarball>/MANIFEST, and *I think* it's just that the sorting of files in them is different. I also don't spot any files that only appear in one tarball.
06:42 preflex lue said 8 hours, 11 minutes and 31 seconds ago: Just confirmed it's a simple case of the files being listed in a different order in the MANIFESTs. Note that this was *just* the top-level MANIFEST; the others were precisely the same between tarballs.
06:48 moritz preflex: tell lue that I have uploaded the R* tarball, and sent you an invitation to for an account on rakudo.org
06:48 preflex Consider it noted.
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07:05 lue ✔ ⑫ upload tarball to rakudo.org (moritz++)
07:05 preflex lue: you have 1 new message. '/msg preflex messages' to read it.
07:05 lue I'll get to 13-15 in the morning, ♘ all! o/
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07:19 cxreg karma jnthn?
07:19 cxreg aw :(
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07:34 atroxaper Hello, #perl6
07:40 moritz \o
07:40 atroxaper moritz: o/
07:41 atroxaper moritz: i want to ask you about rakudo pod parsing.
07:41 atroxaper moritz: does it parse right?)
07:43 atroxaper moritz: i have printed pod object after parsing S26 and i see that (for example) C<> isn't parsed last table.
07:43 atroxaper in last table.
07:45 atroxaper I see q{ ("C<B<...>> Basis/focus of sentence (typically rendered bold)", "C<B<...>>", "Basis/focus of sentence (typically rendered bold)") }
07:46 atroxaper But as i understand correctly C<...> in that exaple should convert its contenst to 'code'
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08:02 moritz atroxaper: yes, might be a pod parsing bug
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08:27 diakopter !karma jnthn
08:27 diakopter .karma jnthn
08:27 diakopter .jnthn jnthn
08:34 moritz jnthn++ # I now know that it's one higher than before!
08:34 diakopter .jnthn jnthn
08:34 diakopter seems the same to me
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08:39 moritz you're just too ignorant :-)
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10:32 timotimo atroxaper: formatting codes in tables is NYI :(
10:32 timotimo i've started a patch on it and passed it on to tadzik; not terribly much progress on it yet
10:35 itz_ I also assume p6doc should format text within a width
10:35 itz_ like fmt(1) I mean
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10:38 timotimo hm, i had some code to do that once, i wonder what i did with it
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11:01 timotimo i don't think we have a proper decision on .trans and the availability of the $/ in the closures ...
11:02 timotimo btw, https://github.com/perl6/specs/issues/58 *bump*
11:03 timotimo so many tickets in perl6/specs ...
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11:27 FROGGS o
11:27 FROGGS o/
11:27 FROGGS O
11:27 FROGGS (now it is a snowman)
11:32 Rotwang there is no snow where I live :C
11:33 tadzik and I'm supposed to go snowboarding in 5 days :|
11:34 FROGGS no snow here ( in RL) either :(
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12:31 timotimo there's only wind where i'm at at the moment
12:40 atroxaper timotimo: do you know what else are NYI yet in pod parsing? I want to write a really good rendering framework.
12:41 FROGGS one option would be to grep for XXX and NYI in the source and roast
12:41 timotimo oof, it's been a long time since i looked at that code
12:41 FROGGS the filenames should tell if it is pod related
12:43 atroxaper FROGGS: do you think that all tests for pod parsing wes written?
12:44 FROGGS atroxaper: no, but maybe you will find a few mentioned todos
12:44 atroxaper Ok. I'll try. Thank you.
12:45 timotimo there was only very meager test coverage for pod in roast.
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12:46 atroxaper And one more question. About #perl6 culture. What is mean 'someone++' ?)
12:46 FROGGS that is giving somebody karma
12:46 timotimo r: my @a = <foo bar baz>; say "baz" ~~ / $(@a[0]) | $(@a[1]) | $(@a[2]) /;
12:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«「baz」␤␤»
12:46 FROGGS atroxaper: when somebody did something cool
12:47 FROGGS the ++ is the incremental postfix
12:48 atroxaper Is it karma real? Where it is stored?
12:48 timotimo we had a bot that tracks it, it's not always here. we don't care about the actual value :P
12:48 FROGGS bots count it
12:48 FROGGS preflex: karma jnthn
12:48 preflex jnthn: 4619
12:48 FROGGS preflex: karma FROGGS
12:48 preflex FROGGS: 231
12:49 FROGGS preflex: karma Tobias Leih
12:49 preflex Tobias Leih has no karma
12:49 FROGGS preflex: karma Tobias Leich
12:49 preflex Tobias Leich: 301
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12:49 timotimo also, there's ++someone, which means something like "it's cool that you want to do this" or "you get the karma after you're done" or "cool idea, please go ahead"
12:50 dalek specs: 7316137 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S05-regex.pod:
12:50 dalek specs: try to resolve #40
12:50 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7316137b88
12:50 timotimo preflex: karma timotimo
12:50 preflex timotimo: 204
12:50 timotimo is there a way to tell preflex that two names refer to the same thing?
12:50 atroxaper preflex: karma atroxaper
12:50 preflex atroxaper: 1
12:50 timotimo preflex: karma Timo Paulssen
12:50 preflex Timo Paulssen: 211
12:50 timotimo preflex: karma FROGGS
12:50 preflex FROGGS: 231
12:51 timotimo oh, github thought "try to resolve #40" meant "#40 is now resolved!"
12:51 timotimo might as well. review, anyone?
12:52 atroxaper I really like #perl6 !
12:53 FROGGS atroxaper: :o)
12:53 FROGGS we too :o)
12:53 FROGGS timotimo: your patch looks sane
12:53 timotimo i didn't look around the whole document, however
12:54 timotimo maybe there ought to be a bit of extra text somewhere that shows that you need to do the $(...) thing in other contexts, too
12:55 timotimo nah, i guess it's fine
12:56 timotimo someone else will likely tell me otherwise if they think i'm in the wrong and i'll happily work towards a better cording
12:56 timotimo wording*
12:56 FROGGS timotimo: I remember that TimToady++ told me about the $() trick once
12:57 timotimo yes, you linked to the irclog in the ticket
12:57 FROGGS yeah, I see that now too :o)
12:58 FROGGS r: my @a; / @a[0] / # do we issue a warning?
12:58 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Apparent subscript will be treated as regexâ�¤    at /tmp/NvnGtC8bvS:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy @a; / @a[33mâ��[31m[0] / # do we issue a warning?[0mâ�¤Â»
12:58 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Apparent subscript will be treated as regexâ�¤    at /tmp/A7RmeJEW9A:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy @a; / @a[33mâ��[31m[0] / # do we issue a warning?[0mâ�¤Â»
12:58 FROGGS good
12:58 FROGGS case closed I'd say :o)
12:59 timotimo nice :)
12:59 timotimo i'm now looking for the right place to put documentation about the set operators in S03
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13:33 timotimo r: .say for ((1, 2, 3) xx 2)
13:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤1␤2␤3␤»
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13:34 timotimo r: ((1, 2, 3) xx 2).perl.say
13:34 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«((1, 2, 3), (1, 2, 3)).list␤»
13:39 timotimo i'm thinking to include the set operators just below the junctive operators, as they have junctive or precedence
13:46 FROGGS p: class A { method can() { 42 } }; say A.new.can
13:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«42␤»
13:47 timotimo (junctive or, junctive and, or chaining comparison precedence, to be exact)
13:54 timotimo huh, what are <+ and >+?
13:55 timotimo ah, it's for bas
13:55 timotimo bags
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14:04 timotimo there are no tests for (.) :(
14:05 FROGGS :/
14:07 dalek specs/S03-set-operators: 4c9c466 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S03-operators.pod:
14:07 dalek specs/S03-set-operators: get a few lines of text started for the set/bag operators
14:07 dalek specs/S03-set-operators: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/4c9c4666e0
14:07 timotimo somebody who actually knows what's up can continue my work :P
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16:15 alfie53 Basic question: If a script begins with #!/usr/bin/perl6 is it also necessary to add use v6.0?
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16:51 TimToady tell alfie53 anything that indicates perl6 will start it up in v6 mode automatically, including the #! line
16:52 TimToady preflex: tell alfie53 anything that indicates perl6 will start it up in v6 mode automatically, including the #! line
16:52 preflex Consider it noted.
16:52 Rotwang what are the boundaries for Int?
16:53 TimToady well, they have to be integers...
16:53 TimToady and they have to fit into memory
16:56 Rotwang TimToady: so their size is arbitrary?
16:56 TimToady I think I once found that mono had an upper limit hardcoded somewhere, but that's not our problem :)
16:56 Rotwang I see, thanks
16:57 TimToady r: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 2..$n }; say 42!
16:57 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«140500611775287989854314​2606244511569936384000000000␤»
16:57 TimToady r: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 2..$n }; say 100!
16:57 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«93326215443944152681699238856266700​490715968264381621468592963895217599993229​915608941463976156518286253697920827223758​251185210916864000000000000000000000000␤»
16:57 TimToady n: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 2..$n }; say 100!
16:57 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«93326215443944152681699238856266700​490715968264381621468592963895217599993229​915608941463976156518286253697920827223758​251185210916864000000000000000000000000␤»
16:57 TimToady n: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 2..$n }; say 1000!
16:57 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«4023872600770937735437024339230039857​19374864210714632543799910429938512398629020​59204420848696940480047998861019719605863166​68729948085589013238296699445909974245040870​73759918823627727188732519779505950995276120​87497546249704360141827809464649629105…»
16:57 TimToady pugs: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 2..$n }; say 1000!
16:57 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«4023872600770937735437024339230039857193​74864210714632543799910429938512398629020592044​20848696940480047998861019719605863166687299480​85589013238296699445909974245040870737599188236​27727188732519779505950995276120874975462497043​601418278094646496291056393887437886487337…»
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17:16 Ben_Goldberg r: say length [*] 2..1000
17:16 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Lo91_BkoBYâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    length used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
17:16 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/_Cjgl1bQAwâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    length used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
17:17 Ben_Goldberg r: say ([*] 2..1000).Str.elems
17:17 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:17 Ben_Goldberg r: say (([*] 2..1000).Str.elems)
17:17 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:18 Ben_Goldberg r: say ((~[*] 2..1000).elems)
17:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:18 Ben_Goldberg r: say ((~[*] 2..1000))
17:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«402387260077093773543702433923003985719374​8642107146325437999104299385123986290205920442084​8696940480047998861019719605863166687299480855890​1323829669944590997424504087073759918823627727188​7325197795059509952761208749754624970436014182…»
17:18 Ben_Goldberg r: say ((~[*] 2..1000).chars)
17:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«2568␤»
17:18 Ben_Goldberg r: say ((~[*] 2..10000).chars)
17:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«35660␤»
17:18 Ben_Goldberg r: say ((~[*] 2..100000).chars)
17:19 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
17:24 timotimo sup
17:24 xenoterracide joined #perl6
17:27 TimToady p: say [*](2..1000).chars
17:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«2568␤»
17:27 TimToady don't need the ~
17:27 TimToady because Cool
17:29 timotimo TimToady: do you have a bit of time to skim perl6/specs issues? for example https://github.com/perl6/specs/issues/58
17:30 timotimo and it seems like https://github.com/perl6/specs/issues/47 seems almost decided already
17:30 timotimo s:2nd/seems/is/
17:30 TimToady well, mostly family stuff today
17:30 TimToady but I don't see why that one couldn't be made to work, offhand
17:30 TimToady presents &
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17:31 timotimo :)
17:32 timotimo i'm interpreting "that one" to mean multi-argument endpoints to the ... operator :)
17:33 timotimo in that case, i'll start trying to implement it :P
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17:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: b7040da | coke++ | / (3 files):
17:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/b7040daaa5
17:50 [Coke] whoops - the rakudo daily star stuff has been committing to something-not-master.
17:54 * [Coke] doesn't bother trying to rescue that.
17:55 timotimo Code is the right class to match against if i want to check for everything?
17:56 xinming joined #perl6
18:00 timotimo now to figure out how to make the sequence stuff work properly without making it preform worse
18:00 timotimo do i always slice off the last $arity elements?
18:01 timotimo or do i have a list that i always push onto and shift from?
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18:07 timotimo gee, i sure wish i understood how munch works :P
18:18 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: 6c13c21 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/operators.pm:
18:18 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: start working on higher arity endpoint codes for SEQUENCE
18:18 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6c13c21093
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18:21 timotimo i just guessed what munch does by how it's used in the rest of the code
18:21 pmurias timotimo: re phasers, why do we need the BEGIN ... form or the BEGIN {...} form?
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18:27 timotimo pmurias: one gives you a lexical block, one doesn't
18:31 FROGGS btw, v5 parsed and executed its first module from cpan: this one http://cpansearch.perl.org​/src/ILYAZ/if-0.0601/if.pm
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18:35 timotimo yeah! :)
18:36 [Coke] FROGGS++ !
18:36 FROGGS :o)
18:37 moritz FROGGS++
18:38 moritz that's a dual-lived module, right?
18:38 timotimo issue 35 from the specs seems like it's already decided? why don't we close it and put the decision into the specs? :)
18:38 FROGGS moritz: what do you mean?
18:45 moritz FROGGS: it's both in p5 core and in on CPAN
18:46 FROGGS moritz: then yes
18:46 timotimo it seemed to me like munch is used to chop off all elements up to the number specified and only leave the rest
18:46 moritz timotimo: sounds about right
18:46 timotimo something's not right, though :)
18:47 timotimo $my_list.elems - $number-i-want should give me a list with $number-i-want elements, aye?
18:48 timotimo oh, i got further in my code, that's good
18:48 moritz no, it gives you an intenger, not a list
18:48 dalek star: ec29482 | lue++ | docs/announce/2013.12.md:
18:48 dalek star: Fix minor braino, it's December this month.
18:48 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/ec294825ef
18:49 timotimo oh. i meant to say ...
18:49 timotimo $my_list.munch($my_list.elems - $number-of-elems-i-want) would let $my_list have $number-of-elems-i-want elements in it afterwards?
18:49 timotimo r: my @foo = <a b c a b c a b c>; @foo.munch(@foo.elems - 3); say @foo;
18:50 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:50 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
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18:53 timotimo rakudo star release \o/
18:54 [Coke] for the people who can run tests with perl6-m - do you have any local modifications to the build? ISTR TimToady++ adding a --stagestats at some point.
18:55 timotimo err, what?
18:55 timotimo the list outputs as "1 2"
18:55 timotimo it says "you passed 3, but i expected 2"
18:55 timotimo my code is ~@$tail_list
18:55 timotimo er.
18:55 timotimo |@$tail_list
18:57 timotimo not quite sure what exactly that means :\
19:03 timotimo this munch thing doesn't seem to work at all
19:03 timotimo now it says "expected 3, but got 13"
19:04 timotimo also, out of nowhere, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 come into existence
19:08 lue ✔ ⑬ Publicize the announcement.
19:09 moritz lue++ # R* release
19:10 timotimo ah, found one problem at least
19:10 dalek star: 3c21f3b | lue++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
19:10 dalek star: [RG 14] Add self to Hall of People who Released R* and when.
19:10 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/3c21f3b547
19:11 lue ✔ ⑭ Be known for the 2013.12 release.
19:11 timotimo \o/
19:11 timotimo lue++
19:12 lue ✔ ⑮ Celebrate! (in-progress, yet considered done)
19:12 lue R* RELEASE MODE DE-ACTIVATED ☄
19:12 moritz that was a short celebration :-)
19:13 lue moritz: "in-progress, yet considered done"
19:13 lue "considered done" is that checkmark. :)
19:15 timotimo ah, of course
19:15 timotimo i was bitten by the 1..12.pick trick
19:16 timotimo tick?
19:17 timotimo r: my $foo = ().list; $foo.push($_) for ^10; say $foo; say $foo.munch($foo.elems - 2); say $foo;
19:17 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:17 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7␤8 9␤»
19:18 timotimo it's supposed to work; why doesn't it work?
19:18 timotimo d'oh
19:18 timotimo wrong variable .elem'd
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19:22 timotimo cool, now 1, 2, { ^10.pick } ... * == * works
19:22 timotimo though it seems to also push the next value that's different from the previous two onto the result unless i ...^
19:22 timotimo which i think is wrong
19:27 timotimo found out why, fixed it
19:28 timotimo 1 2 0 8 2 4 2 9 6 1 7 8 3 9 0 6 7 0 3 1 7 0 0
19:32 timotimo the result of a run of 1, 2, { (^10).pick } ... * == *
19:33 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
19:35 timotimo the spectest run is soon to be done \o/
19:37 timotimo oh cool, all tests passed!
19:38 timotimo that either means i broke nothing in the normal case or the tests for sequences are not good enough
19:40 timotimo oh ,wait!
19:40 timotimo there arleady *was* tests for arity-2-or-more limits!
19:41 Ben_Goldberg r: my @x := 1, 2, { (^10).pick } ... *; say @x[^10]
19:41 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:41 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1 2 2 3 2 1 4 5 6 2␤»
19:42 Ben_Goldberg n: my @x := 1, 2, { (^10).pick } ... *; say @x[^10]
19:42 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«1 2 0 7 4 5 9 3 1 6␤»
19:43 Ben_Goldberg j: say 'alive'
19:44 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:45 moritz j: say 42
19:45 timotimo hm, the test expects this to work:
19:45 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:45 moritz j: say 42
19:45 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
19:45 timotimo an arity-3 limit with a starting list that's empty
19:46 timotimo https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master​/S03-sequence/limit-arity-2-or-more.t#L17
19:46 lue Does anyone else experience slowness on perlcabal.org and feather.perl6.nl?
19:46 timotimo is this a bogus test, or should it just generate values unchecked until the required number of parameters is reached in the list so far?
19:47 moritz lue: feather has been slow for some time
19:48 lue moritz: I was thinking that it was just another symptom of the general slowness, but wasn't sure.
19:48 moritz j: say 42
19:48 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:48 timotimo guidance, please?
19:50 moritz timotimo: I'd say it is just assumed that the limit isn't reached until the arity of the checker is satisfied
19:52 dalek specs: 763b4b3 | lue++ | S32-setting-library/Str.pod:
19:52 dalek specs: [S32::Str] Remove Str.normalize
19:52 dalek specs:
19:52 dalek specs: The method makes no sense in light of S15, with separate types for each
19:52 dalek specs: normalization form. Fully updating S32::Str to agree with S15 still
19:52 dalek specs: needs to be done.
19:52 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/763b4b35fd
19:53 Ben_Goldberg j: my @x := 1, 2, { (^10).pick } ... *; say @x[^10]
19:53 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1 2 3 6 3 8 4 0 3 8␤»
19:54 timotimo https://github.com/perl6/specs/issues/58 ← my thoughts on the topic agree with moritz
19:55 timotimo moritz: i'll go ahead and implement that.
19:57 Ben_Goldberg n: say { (^10).pick } ... * == *;
19:57 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«1 2 2␤»
19:57 Ben_Goldberg n: say { (^10).pick } ... * == *;
19:57 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«3 4 8 0 3 9 3 8 5 8 2 8 4 5 3 0 1 7 9 6 6␤»
20:00 timotimo ah, even niecza already has that :)
20:04 jnap joined #perl6
20:07 ajr_ Just to let you know, 2013.12 appears to have downloaded and installed successfully.
20:07 timotimo r: say -Inf ~~ -Inf
20:07 woolfy FROGGS++ for star release!
20:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:08 timotimo er, but lue made the star release, woolfy
20:08 woolfy preflex: karma FROGGS
20:08 timotimo have you had something to drink? :)
20:08 * diakopter dehydrated
20:08 rurban1 joined #perl6
20:09 woolfy OOPS sorryy.....   lue++ for star release
20:09 woolfy FROGGS++ for many other things :-)
20:09 timotimo :3
20:09 lue woolfy: no problem. :)
20:11 woolfy timotimo: yesterday at xmas part at lizmat' sis...  prosecco, Belgian beer, Austrian Marzipan-Creme-Likör, and whisky.
20:11 woolfy (no hangover though)
20:11 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
20:12 timotimo very good :)
20:14 timotimo and more tests passing for rakudo \o/
20:22 timotimo p: (1 ... *)[^10].say
20:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
20:22 timotimo locally, that gives me an error all of a sudden ... ?!?
20:27 ajr joined #perl6
20:33 moritz timotimo: that's not good :-)
20:37 timotimo i made a silly little mistake
20:41 xenoterracide joined #perl6
20:50 xenoterracide can I modify a class, without modifying the source or subclassing, in a way that would modify all instances of the class on the system? (or at least all new instances)
20:53 xenoterracide joined #perl6
20:53 moritz xenoterracide: yes, to the degree that "modify" means "add new stuff to it"
20:53 moritz with use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class YourClass { new definitions here }
21:00 xenoterracide moritz: that's cool, where's that documented?
21:01 timotimo oh!
21:01 timotimo the endpoint check causes it to give a negative direction if the $endpoint is a code object
21:02 * xenoterracide debates on whether I want to write this system I want to write in p5 or p6
21:04 timotimo r: say (1 ... * > 100)[^10];
21:04 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«1 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8␤»
21:05 jnap joined #perl6
21:05 moritz xenoterracide: S12 (and to a lesser degree S02)
21:05 timotimo i thought this was a bug i caused
21:05 timotimo fortunately it's already there
21:05 TimToady r: say 1 cmp * > 100
21:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new()␤»
21:05 timotimo ohai timtoady :)
21:06 TimToady xenoterracide: do you want it fast, or readable?
21:06 timotimo TimToady: IMO, with perl6 it will stay readable and become faster; with perl5 it will stay unreadable and fast :P
21:06 TimToady r: my $f = * > 100; say 1 cmp $f
21:06 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«More␤»
21:07 TimToady r: my $f = * > 100; say $f.Num
21:07 camelia rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«No such method 'Num' for invocant of type 'WhateverCode'␤␤»
21:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«No such method 'Num' for invocant of type 'WhateverCode'␤  in block  at /tmp/nECXtRXwo8:1␤␤»
21:07 TimToady r: my $f = * > 100; say +$f
21:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: Mu *%_)␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1218␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1209␤  in method Numeric at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:985␤  in sub prefix:<+> at gen/parrot…»
21:07 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: Mu *%_)␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1201␤␤»
21:08 TimToady r: my $f = * > 100; say 1 after $f
21:08 xenoterracide TimToady: now there's a question... I suppose the real question though will be, is how bad will the longterm runtime be, either way I'm going to have to write a lot of code
21:08 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:08 timotimo TimToady: would it be too magical to special-case code to give an increasing sequence if we only have one starting value in the list
21:09 TimToady p: say 10 ... 1
21:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc: OUTPUT«10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1␤»
21:09 TimToady it would not be too magical, unless "wrong" is too magical :)
21:10 TimToady xenoterracide: longterm, we expect P6 to run faster than P5; shortterm, not so much...
21:13 gfldex joined #perl6
21:13 xenoterracide TimToady: although I imagine this is a very speculative question... and one asked a lot, is there any speculation on how long long term? like 1-2 years before it's on par?
21:13 xenoterracide had a side thought... I wonder how well it'd work p5 became a target vm of p6
21:13 TimToady that's one of those futures that will be unevenly distributed; it depends on what you're trying to do
21:14 timotimo i think in 2 years we'll have pretty decent performance
21:14 TimToady p5 hasn't got the internals to support p6 well
21:15 TimToady it it basically would have to emulate the type system, rather than using its native type system
21:16 TimToady this is why backporting smartmatching was not very successful
21:16 xenoterracide it's a thought similarly based around people thinking of having it compile to js
21:16 xenoterracide v8 is faster than p5 but not /that/ much I think
21:16 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:17 TimToady but v8 has a type system at a fundamental level that p5 is missing
21:17 xenoterracide ah
21:17 TimToady p5 goes out of its way to smear the fundamental types
21:18 timotimo there would probably have to be at least as much trouble for running p6 on p5 as there is for running rakudo on parrot
21:18 TimToady merely using a number as a string means that P5 doesn't any longer know whether it is primarily a number pretending to be a string or a string pretending to be a number
21:18 clsn_ Doesn't p6 also sometimes treat numbers-that-look-like-strings differently from other strings?
21:19 TimToady only when coming from a medium that confuses them already
21:19 TimToady such as command-line args, or user input or the text of your program
21:19 xenoterracide TimToady: thanks, (gotta go celebrate the holidays)
21:19 TimToady nodnod
21:21 TimToady in that sense, <1 2 3> is like «1 2 3» in kinda emulating command line args, just without the interpolation of the latter
21:21 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:21 timotimo TimToady: a regular my $foo = 10 won't give a int-str, but if you put < ... > around them it would
21:23 TimToady clsn_: but unlike p5, which just turns those all into a SvPVIV or whatever, p5 distinguishes Int from Str, and both of those from IntStr
21:23 clsn_ I see.
21:23 TimToady part of the more general design principle of p6, avoid accidental genericity
21:23 TimToady intention genericity is fine, and IntStr represents that
21:23 TimToady *tional
21:24 TimToady declaring a role is intentional genericity
21:24 TimToady so we know the code inside a role must be interpreted more than one way
21:24 TimToady but p5's multipass parsing is accidental genericity
21:25 TimToady so the compiler is itself never quite sure what language it's in
21:25 TimToady which is why p6 does one-pass parsing :)
21:26 timotimo TimToady: you wanted a "p6" instead of "p5" at the end of the last line starting with "clsn_:"
21:26 TimToady timotimo: well, a single <10> should produce an Int
21:26 TimToady n: say <10>.WHAT
21:26 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
21:26 TimToady niecza++
21:26 timotimo wasn't there something about wanting to keep the representation of <10_00_00> etc?
21:27 TimToady n: say <10_000_000>.WHAT
21:27 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
21:27 timotimo that's supposed to .Str back to 10_000_000 again rather than 10000000, right?
21:27 TimToady the presence of _ could be taken to mean an IntStr is desired, I suppose
21:27 TimToady well, if you really mean that...
21:27 timotimo OK, sure
21:27 TimToady n: say < 10_000_000 >.WHAT
21:27 camelia niecza v24-108-g17d73e4: OUTPUT«(IntStr)␤»
21:28 timotimo oh, i see
21:28 TimToady you can always write it like that
21:28 timotimo there's that, too
21:28 TimToady it's a DW
21:28 TimToady it's a DWIM, so there's always going to be a bit of WAT
21:29 TimToady same for lol vs flat dwimmery
21:29 rurban1 joined #perl6
21:35 timotimo i'm going for a last spectest run, then i'm going to push my branch and go to bed
21:36 timotimo my branch will also contain a change to make 1 ... * > 10 and similar things to give increasing sequences
21:38 TimToady r: my $f = * > 100; say -1 after $f
21:38 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:39 TimToady r: my $f = * > 100; say $f after $f
21:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 6d54dc, rakudo-jvm 6d54dc: OUTPUT«False␤»
21:42 kurahaupo left #perl6
21:43 dalek roast: a734f7c | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S03-sequence/limit-arity-2-or-more.t:
21:43 dalek roast: fudge two hanging WIP spectests for sequences
21:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a734f7ccdc
21:47 rurban1 joined #perl6
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: c248769 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | / (2 files):
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: finish up multi-arity-limit, run the pre-existing tests
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c2487697fe
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: bc572cd | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/core/operators.pm:
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: towards @_ support and increasing seqs by default
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint:
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: if the arity of the code for the limit is 0 and the count
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: is Inf, I try to pass all values so far into the code.
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint:
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: in addition, lists that start with a single number and then
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: have a limit block will now be increasing, rather than
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: decreasing (strange to have ... * be increasing and ... * > 5
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: be decreasing instead)
21:55 dalek rakudo/multi_arity_sequence_endpoint: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bc572cd6dd
22:01 raiph joined #perl6
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22:07 timotimo good night perl6 people
22:15 [Coke] ~~
22:17 kst` joined #perl6
22:40 moritz fwiw the advent calendar had 22.5k visitors, which is a little less than 2011, and more than 2012
22:40 kivutar joined #perl6
22:47 denis_boyun joined #perl6
22:48 lue ooc, what's the difference between an exception and a control exception? Is "control exception" things like SIGINT ?
22:49 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
22:52 FROGGS isnt a control exeption something like `NEXT`, `REDO`, or `LAST`?
22:54 lue FROGGS: there's a CONTROL {} phaser that catches "control exception"s, and I'm not sure why/how that warrants a CATCH {} variant.
22:56 moritz return() uses control exceptions, for example
22:57 moritz all the things that cause "anormal" control flow
23:01 lue .oO("Control (flow) Exception")
23:02 lue moritz: OK, I think it's just a case of me not seeing CONTROL {} in action that makes me wonder about them. :)
23:07 jnap joined #perl6
23:12 preflex joined #perl6

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