Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-01-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 jnthn :)
00:00 jnthn 'night, timotimo
00:03 psch this is confusing me https://gist.github.com/peschwa/8625806
00:04 psch why does the error change to undeclared variable?
00:06 jnthn psch: Double quotes interpolate variables
00:06 psch ooh
00:06 psch right
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00:06 psch that's silly of me
00:06 jnthn Use Q[...] or something
00:06 psch yeah
00:07 psch great, it does throw X::Assignment::RO
00:09 jnthn Maybe not on MoarVM yet, though
00:09 Mouq psch: Nerm… I hadn't actually looked at your commit until now
00:09 Mouq r: use Test; ok 'nonsense', 'this test will always succeed'
00:09 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«ok 1 - this test will always succeed␤»
00:09 Mouq ok tests the truthiness of it's first argument and uses the second as a test message
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00:14 psch oh
00:14 Mouq psch: so what I think you were looking for is `is`, and I think you'll have to define a sub other than 'say'
00:14 psch right
00:14 Mouq psch: Hey, it's better than no test :)
00:15 psch i don't know if a test that always passes is better than no test... :)
00:15 psch that's what i get for only having used throws_like up to now hah
00:16 Mouq psch: Hah, it's cool
00:16 jnthn 'night, #perl6
00:16 Mouq night jnthn
00:16 psch g'night jnthn
00:22 psch r: use Test; (my $a) = 1,2,3; is $a, (1,2,3), "Assignment into parentheses'd my works."
00:22 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«ok 1 - Assignment into parentheses'd my works.␤»
00:22 psch Mouq: that's a better test right?
00:24 dalek roast: 7af18f0 | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
00:24 dalek roast: Correct test for RT #76444. Mouq++
00:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7af18f0969
00:24 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=76444
00:24 psch (i hope so cause now it's in...)
00:26 psch r: (my $a) = 1, 2, 3; say $a.WHAT; (1,2,3).WHAT.say;
00:26 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤(Parcel)␤»
00:26 psch i feel fairly confident it's correct.
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00:39 Mouq psch: Nergle, sorry, I was offline
00:41 Mouq I read the bug report more as `routine (my $a) = 1,2,3` being parsed as `(routine (my $a)) = 1,2,3` when it should be `routine ((my $a) = 1,2,3)`
00:42 psch that actually makes sense, the other cases don't work when removing the routine
00:42 psch in my defense, the usefulness of the test did improve... :)
00:42 psch i'll change it again though, you're clearly right
00:43 Mouq lol, psch++ it's more than I've done today :)
00:43 Mouq Ok
00:44 psch i'm not quite sure how to write the test though
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00:44 psch r: use Test; is 'foo (my $a = 1,2,3)', (1,2,3), 'Routine call taking a parenthesesed my as argument works.'; # this isn't right
00:44 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - Routine call taking a parenthesesed my as argument works.␤#      got: 'foo (my $a = 1,2,3)'␤# expected: '1 2 3'␤»
00:44 psch so is doesn't eval it's 1st argument
00:44 psch but eval_ok probably has the same semantics as ok, except it evals first
00:46 Mouq r: use Test; sub low-prec (\i) {True}; is (low-prec (my $a) = 1,2,3), True; is $a, (1,2,3)
00:46 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤ok 2 - ␤»
00:48 psch right, i had declared a sub foo($x) { $x } locally for the example above
00:48 psch r: use Test; sub foo($x) { $x }; is foo (my $a = 1,2,3), (1,2,3), 'Routine call taking a parenthesesed my as argument works.'; # this maybe?
00:48 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 3 but expected 1␤  in sub foo at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
00:48 psch nope
00:48 psch well, yours works
00:48 psch Mouq++ # test-writing support
00:49 Mouq psch: You passed (1,2,3) to foo
00:49 psch the second one?
00:49 Mouq psch: As well 'Routine…'
00:49 psch right
00:50 Mouq psch: You got this
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00:53 * Mouq is leaving again
00:53 * psch just adds all of these test cases
00:56 dalek roast: fab066e | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
00:56 dalek roast: Corrected tests for RT #76444. Mouq++
00:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fab066e125
00:56 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=76444
00:56 * psch wonders what 'Nerm' and 'Nergle' mean...
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01:25 dalek roast: 06a737b | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S04-statement (2 files):
01:25 dalek roast: Added tests for RT #89208
01:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/06a737b1ea
01:25 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=89208
01:27 psch r: $foo:: 42; say $foo:: # RT #76400
01:27 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=76400
01:27 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Variable '$foo' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m$foo::[33mâ��[31m 42; say $foo:: # RT #76400[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤   …»
01:27 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=76400
01:28 psch r: $foo:: = 42; say $foo:: # still different than in the ticket
01:28 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Variable '$foo' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m$foo::[33mâ��[31m = 42; say $foo:: # still different than[0mâ�¤    expecting …»
01:28 psch std: $foo:: = 42
01:28 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
01:28 psch n: $foo:: = 42
01:28 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤  at Niecza.StashCursor.Core (System.String key, Boolean final, Niecza.StashCursor& sc, Niecza.Variable& v, Niecza.Variable bind_to) [0x00000] i…»
01:29 * psch wonders who is wrong here
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01:58 * colomon just forgot that I was editing files on my Linux box, and checked them into git directly from my Mac.  Seems to have worked okay...
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02:03 psch how do verify the bool value inside a method of an exception in throws_like?
02:03 psch i have this: https://gist.github.com/peschwa/8627020
02:04 psch but the warning is unsettling
02:04 psch if i leave out the smart match the last test case fails...
02:04 psch i also don't quite understand how an "always fail[ing]" smart match gives a successful test result
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02:05 psch "leave out the smart match" here means just putting 'private => { False }', which in retrospect doesn't really seem to make sense to me either
02:06 psch oh
02:06 psch yeah, nevermind, i checked in S32-exceptions/misc.t and i have to $_ === *
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02:07 * psch .oO( private is not even an array... -.- )
02:09 psch colomon: i dont quite get your worry there. do you have your local git repo hosted on a networked filesystem?
02:10 colomon psch: I'm editing the files over SSHFS.
02:11 colomon and, apparently, committing them over SSHFS, too.
02:12 psch that's fine, isn't it
02:12 psch if your repo is mounted locally from another computer you edit and commit on the other computer
02:12 colomon apparently
02:13 psch a possibly troublesome scenario would be mounting a subdir of the repo via sshfs and then commiting...
02:13 psch of course after editing inside that subdir
02:13 psch but as long as you mount the root of the repo i don't see any cause of concern
02:16 dalek roast: 8fe2db8 | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
02:16 dalek roast: Added test for RT #78012
02:16 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8fe2db8a63
02:16 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=78012
02:17 psch in fact, i think im gonna try that out now
02:17 psch remounting a subdir of a remote with unpushed changes in another repo without those changes and then changing things inside the subdir
02:17 psch i'm fairly confident git will complain
02:21 psch "could not commit hanged contents of $file"
02:21 * psch is pretty sure he doesn't exactly understand that error
02:22 psch that's actually kind of interesting
02:23 psch after adding a file in the subdir, then "mount -o bind"ing the subdir into a clean repo i had to commit in both repos before i could rebase into the one i "mount -o bind"ed from
02:23 * psch has no idea what that actually means
02:24 psch anyway, i feel i'm starting to ramble, i'm gonna go to bed o/
02:28 Mouq r: class NUM {}; my $NUM::twelve = 12; my $NUM::fourty-two = 42; say [+] NUM::.values;
02:28 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«54␤»
02:28 dalek roast: 13c7fbf | (Mark Shoulson)++ | / (3 files):
02:28 dalek roast: Add new signature/parameter matching tests.
02:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/13c7fbfca9
02:29 colomon \o
02:30 Mouq psch++ clsn++
02:30 clsn Hope it's good.
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03:04 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brace_expansion now has a Perl 6 entry
03:04 TimToady it's kinda beautiful
03:08 colomon TimToady++
03:12 colomon japhb: if you want some simple tests for Vec3, feel free to steal them from my fork.  ;)
03:19 diakopter TimToady: I don't see the Perl 6 one there
03:20 TimToady cache out of date?
03:24 diakopter did you commit the change?
03:24 TimToady certainly
03:25 diakopter well, there is a note at the top from Dec 14
03:25 diakopter weird
03:25 TimToady well, that's a different issue
03:25 diakopter This page was last modified on 26 January 2014, at 03:20.
03:26 TimToady you have to page down to get to Perl 6, it doesn't make a table of contents until there are four entries
03:26 diakopter soneone deleted it?
03:27 diakopter er there it is
03:27 diakopter but what happened to the Python one I just saw
03:27 TimToady the python was withdrawn, see the talk page
03:30 diakopter oh
03:53 clsn r: 6 S+ 9  # LTA error.  See line #3542 in Grammar.nqp, missing around line #5169 in Actions.nqp.
03:53 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Pub​lic/Bug/Display.html?id=3542
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03:53 camelia rakudo-jvm e51b6c: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1680␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1663␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:53 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e51b6c: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1692␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1674␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:53 camelia ..rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:58 skids The described backslashing behavior does not match bash, nor does it make any sense to me. (echo a\\{1,2\,c} --> a\1 a\2,c not a\\1  a\\2\,c )
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08:56 timotimo o/
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09:04 raydiak what does "is pure" do?
09:05 timotimo it's meaningful to the optimizer
09:05 timotimo it will constant-fold only things that are marked is pure
09:05 raydiak means "no side effects" or similar?
09:06 timotimo that's right
09:06 timotimo or "no side-effects to worry about"
09:06 timotimo caching, for example, would be allowed
09:07 raydiak makes sense
09:07 timotimo and if you want you can mess with the optimizer that way :P
09:08 timotimo r: sub test is pure { rand }; for ^10 { say test + test }
09:08 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in sub test at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:08 timotimo r: sub test is pure { rand }; for ^10 { say test() + test }
09:08 camelia rakudo-jvm e51b6c: OUTPUT«0.8786985940925635␤0.8786985940925635␤0.878​6985940925635␤0.8786985940925635␤0.878698594092563​5␤0.8786985940925635␤0.8786985940925635␤0.87869859​40925635␤0.8786985940925635␤0.8786985940925635␤»
09:08 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.04900561984469␤1.04900561984469␤1.04​900561984469␤1.04900561984469␤1.0490056198446​9␤1.04900561984469␤1.04900561984469␤1.0490056​1984469␤1.04900561984469␤1.04900561984469␤»
09:08 camelia ..rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.28499817762646␤1.28499817762646␤1.28​499817762646␤1.28499817762646␤1.2849981776264​6␤1.28499817762646␤1.28499817762646␤1.2849981​7762646␤1.28499817762646␤1.28499817762646␤»
09:08 raydiak ha ha, got it
09:08 timotimo hm, i think it'll even work without the addition
09:09 timotimo r: sub test is pure { rand }; for ^10 { say test }
09:09 camelia rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«0.406724576016814␤0.406724576016814␤0.40​6724576016814␤0.406724576016814␤0.4067245760168​14␤0.406724576016814␤0.406724576016814␤0.406724​576016814␤0.406724576016814␤0.406724576016814␤»
09:09 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e51b6c: OUTPUT«0.8538433738476435␤0.8538433738476435␤0.853​8433738476435␤0.8538433738476435␤0.853843373847643​5␤0.8538433738476435␤0.8538433738476435␤0.85384337​38476435␤0.8538433738476435␤0.8538433738476435␤»
09:09 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e51b6c: OUTPUT«0.308586922564672␤0.308586922564672␤0.30​8586922564672␤0.308586922564672␤0.3085869225646​72␤0.308586922564672␤0.308586922564672␤0.308586​922564672␤0.308586922564672␤0.308586922564672␤»
09:09 timotimo yup
09:09 raydiak is inlining happening?
09:10 raydiak well, dumb question in the context of constant folding
09:10 timotimo heh.
09:10 raydiak I guess I was wondering if inlining works in general
09:10 timotimo we do inline simple things
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09:10 raydiak simple?
09:11 timotimo not exactly sure about what exactly constitutes a simple thing
09:11 timotimo i'll give you a link to the source code
09:11 raydiak read my mind :)
09:11 timotimo https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/bl​ob/nom/src/Perl6/Actions.nqp#L2541
09:12 raydiak ah, I see
09:13 timotimo wether or not an op is inlinable can be seen in the Ops.nqp or QASTOperationsMAST.nqp and friends
09:14 timotimo on JVM and moar, the default for an op is to be inlinable, on parrot it's the other way around iirc
09:14 raydiak none of the args can be optional, capture, slurpy, lol, bound to something somewhere else, or constrained, to name a few
09:15 timotimo i'd think some of those could be made to work, but it'd be ... work :P
09:15 raydiak I've been looking at the rakudo and nqp source lately...it's remarkably coherent and legible
09:16 timotimo i wholeheartedly agree
09:16 timotimo unfortunately, to a beginner, that doesn't mean you'll immediately know just what to write :P
09:16 raydiak not at all, but I tried reading the source once or twice with p5, and decided I didn't want to sacrifice that much of my life :P
09:17 * timotimo has seen some of the insides of pypy and it was a similar deal to nqp and rakudo
09:18 FROGGS o/
09:18 raydiak \o
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09:49 FROGGS timotimo: this is awesome :o) http://feather.perl6.nl/~raiph/25jan​2014-benchmark-p5-nqps-rakudos.html
09:49 FROGGS timotimo++
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09:51 masak good antenoon, #perl6
09:53 atroxaper masak: hello!
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09:58 moritz \o *
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10:00 timotimo FROGGS: all the ++'s belong to other people in this case :)
10:01 FROGGS TimToady++ # there can't be a cleaner solution than the p6 one http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brace_expansion
10:01 FROGGS timotimo: it was you cpu power, wasn't it? :o)
10:01 timotimo well, yeah
10:06 masak FROGGS: not only that, it shows very clearly the two different philosophical levels Perl 5 and Perl 6 operate on.
10:07 masak Perl 5 is more "regexes, data structures and loops". Perl 6 is more "grammars and hyperops".
10:08 FROGGS rosattecode++, job well done I'd say :o)
10:08 FROGGS rosettacode++, even
10:09 FROGGS I am eager to see other solutions, though I don't think any could beat Perl 6 (for my taste)
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10:24 jnthn morningish, #perl6
10:25 FROGGS morning jnthn
10:27 FROGGS jnthn: you don't have any hints where could start looking for "Object conflict detected during deserialization."?
10:28 FROGGS is it a problem writing down the mbc to disk, or is it a problem loading it?
10:29 jnthn FROGGS: Happens at load time
10:30 FROGGS btw, I should be able to use the flunk.moarvm produced by windows, right?
10:30 FROGGS no, I won't
10:30 FROGGS because of BS
10:32 jnthn You should be able to...
10:32 * FROGGS tries
10:33 FROGGS just to try it
10:34 jnthn FROGGS: Anyway, the missing stuff is that MoarVM throws an exception at https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/m​aster/src/6model/serialization.c#L1872 while it needs to do https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/s​rc/vm/parrot/6model/serialization.c#L1767
10:35 FROGGS ahh
10:35 FROGGS thank you!
10:36 jnthn It's not a lot of code to port, but I need to pack and get ready for airport here...
10:37 FROGGS jnthn: yeah, I already wanted to ask "what is the catch", but I will try it now :o)
10:37 FROGGS have a nice flight!
10:37 FROGGS :o)
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11:41 timotimo perfect timing for my train yay
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12:02 timotimo o/ from a train
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12:09 FROGGS :o)
12:09 FROGGS o/ from a chair
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12:17 moritz \o from a rocking chair
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12:42 atroxaper Is there way to call something by timer? Or sleep function?
12:44 timotimo there is a sleep function, sure
12:44 timotimo and on the jvm you can have periodic calls to a function
12:45 atroxaper timotimo: oh... thank you. sleep is what i wonted.
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13:16 moritz r: my $now = now; sleep 1; say now() - $now
13:16 camelia rakudo-parrot e51b6c, rakudo-jvm e51b6c, rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    now used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
13:17 moritz r: my $now = now; sleep 1; say now - $now
13:17 camelia rakudo-jvm e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.022␤»
13:17 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.02675534␤»
13:17 camelia ..rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.03735240␤»
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13:26 smls .tell skids re "described backslashing behavior does not match bash": Well, Bash does several things together: 1) word splitting 2) brace expansion 3) wildcard and tilde expansion 4) backslash stripping. The rosetta task is exclusively about brace expansion...
13:26 yoleaux smls: I'll pass your message to skids.
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14:25 JimmyZ r: my $now = now; sleep 1; say now - $now
14:25 camelia rakudo-moar e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.0338047␤»
14:25 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.0159990␤»
14:25 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e51b6c: OUTPUT«1.0209812␤»
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15:46 ajr_ What is the "Richards benchmark"? Reference?
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16:32 timotimo ajr_: it simulates a scheduler workload for I/O and cpu-bound tasks
16:33 timotimo https://github.com/japhb/perl6-​bench/blob/master/nqp/richards
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16:39 ajr_ timotimo: Thanks. Is there a functional specification (as opposed to implemetation), somewhere?
16:41 timotimo i don't know of one, but i also didn't look very hard
16:41 timotimo i ported it from python code found in the repository of pypy's speed measurement project
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18:05 ajr_ Martin Richardson's home page: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mr10/ with a link to  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/Bench/bench.tgz which appears to have several different versions.
18:08 jnthn oh, *that* Richards...
18:23 tgt joined #perl6
18:28 jnthn dinner &
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18:32 arnsholt jnthn: On JVM, ``use NativeCall; my $x := CArray[int].new; $x[0] := 1; say "alive"'' works, while ``use NativeCall; my $x := CArray[int].new; $x[0] = 1; say "alive"'' fails with "java.lang.RuntimeException: This type does not support positional operations"
18:32 arnsholt Both work on Parrot. Rakudo's scalar container missing some kind of REPRop on JVM?
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20:09 FROGGS perl6-m -e 'sub postcircumfix:<؟ ?>(*@a) { @a.join("-") }; say 123؟1, 2?'
20:09 FROGGS 123-1-2
20:10 diakopter wat
20:10 masak looks right to me.
20:10 FROGGS :o)
20:10 diakopter wat
20:11 masak diakopter: I think you have to elaborate a bit on what befuddles you.
20:11 FROGGS the arabic question mark is a bit off here in my chat client, but the customm postcircumfix works
20:11 jnthn wtf
20:11 jnthn oh
20:11 jnthn ffs, it's RTL
20:11 jnthn :P
20:11 FROGGS wtf -> ftw
20:11 FROGGS :P
20:11 jnthn Yes, I wrote ftw but it was in RTL, you see :P
20:11 FROGGS hehe
20:11 FROGGS 'course
20:12 jnthn wtf ++SGGORF!
20:12 diakopter what's trl
20:12 FROGGS \o/ <-- rtl even
20:13 jnthn Well, I just grabbed JDK8 and it seems Rakudo on JVM builds and spectests on it...
20:13 masak oh, I had to go to the web logs to even see what you guys were so confused over...
20:14 FROGGS weird is, that is shows the arabic ? correctly after the 123 when I highlight the text...
20:14 jnthn However, Java's substring semantics have changed, and the time to do JAST -> classfile has gone up a bunch...
20:15 diakopter masak: how is 123-1-2 formed
20:15 lue Having two of those RTL question marks seems to keep it from breaking completely, but I could be wrong there. ‮Now at least you didn't use weirder Unicode characters...‭
20:15 FROGGS damn, now that I fully implemented postcircumfix, Perl5::Terms infiniloops when precompiling it
20:16 FROGGS diakopter: it gets the invocant as the first arg, and the stuff in the postcircumfix after that
20:16 diakopter what's in the postcircumfix
20:16 FROGGS 1, 2
20:16 diakopter where's the 2
20:16 FROGGS after the one :o)
20:17 diakopter don't see a 2
20:17 FROGGS perl6-m -e 'sub postcircumfix:<* *>(*@a) { @a.join("-") }; say 123*1, 2*'
20:17 FROGGS 123-1-2
20:17 FROGGS here, ascii
20:17 lue diakopter: try selecting the text, see if you can move around the text doing that.
20:17 diakopter that's not what mine looks like at all
20:17 FROGGS the right-to-left char messes up, that's all
20:18 masak diakopter: three arguments go in: the 123, the 1, and the 2.
20:18 diakopter nopasting my problem
20:18 masak diakopter: I didn't even see the confusion, because my client didn't RTL things.
20:19 FROGGS I (sort of) see "... 1232 ,1??"
20:19 lue masak: aw, then you missed my joke earlier :)
20:19 masak lue: must've, yes.
20:20 diakopter FROGGS: yes, that's what I saw
20:20 lue irclog is willing though, at least: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-01-26#i_8178625
20:20 jnthn I just tried to type what I saw, but when I copy-paste the RTL char it makes it impossible to type what I want :P
20:21 FROGGS hehe
20:21 moritz iirc gtk tries to handle RTL correctly
20:22 lue moritz: works in gtk-using hexchat at least (Unicode OVERRIDE characters included ☺)
20:23 diakopter http://imgur.com/VzLp72r.png
20:24 lue diakopter: that second 2 in "1232"? That's the missing 2 :)
20:24 diakopter I see that now
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20:49 jackjack sometimes i think i learnt the wrong language this perl stuff
20:49 FROGGS ?
20:50 dalek nqp: bbb81a1 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
20:50 dalek nqp: Configurable git protocols; closes #153
20:50 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/bbb81a1b7c
20:50 jackjack it really hurts my brains bad
20:51 moritz maybe you just need somebody to teach it properly
20:51 moritz git also hurt my brain before I understood it
20:51 diakopter my brain hurts my brain
20:51 jackjack im the only person in the world whos read those perl manuals three times
20:52 jackjack and that systems admin with perl one
20:53 jackjack i think i prefer wiley to o'reilly
20:56 jackjack the way i see it is you have to be a top expert in perl 5 to understand the changes in perl 6---that means someones got a better book which they teach from
20:56 * raydiak disagrees
20:57 jackjack raydiak   you cant write thos e books in 2 years there too fat
20:57 raydiak I disagree that you have to be a top expert in perl 5 to learn perl 6
20:58 moritz some of our core contributors didn't do Perl 5 before hacking on Perl 6
20:59 jeffreykegler left #perl6
21:00 jackjack anyway curtis "ovid" poe is taking a lecture at fosdem2014 so ill ask him feb2
21:00 skids A lot of the things in Perl5 and 6 that fry brains are actually just basic CS concepts that fry brains in college, it is just that Perl actually uses/implements them while many other languages do not.
21:00 yoleaux 13:26Z <smls> skids: re "described backslashing behavior does not match bash": Well, Bash does several things together: 1) word splitting 2) brace expansion 3) wildcard and tilde expansion 4) backslash stripping. The rosetta task is exclusively about brace expansion...
21:00 dalek rakudo/nom: c2982df | moritz++ | / (2 files):
21:00 dalek rakudo/nom: import configurable git protocol changes from NQP
21:00 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:00 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes RT #121072
21:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c2982df7c4
21:00 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=121072
21:00 arnsholt Blah. Does anyone happen to know which particular bit of code in NQP/JVM inserts the exception handler that intercepts stray exceptions?
21:02 jnthn arnsholt: Maybe you mean invokeDirect?
21:02 jnthn arnsholt: Or you mean something in code-gen?
21:02 skids yoleaux tell smls: backslash stripping is usually ensconced in the syntax parsing in the first stages of brace expansion.  Not stripping them is actually harder than stripping them.
21:03 skids erg.
21:03 FROGGS skids: .tell
21:04 * skids fixed it in a msg, thanks
21:11 arnsholt jnthn: Could be code-gen
21:12 jnthn src/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:3554
21:12 * arnsholt tries invokeDirect first
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21:13 arnsholt Oh, that looks promising
21:13 arnsholt Cheers!
21:14 sjn arnsholt: you up for a beer and some grub on tuesday? :)
21:14 sjn arnsholt: http://www.meetup.com/Oslo-pm/events/162287772/​http://www.meetup.com/Oslo-pm/events/162287772/ \o/
21:14 sjn oops
21:15 sjn http://www.meetup.com/Oslo-pm/events/162287772/
21:15 jnthn It's so good it's worth pasting twice!
21:15 sjn it's so good it's worth 404ing it? o_O
21:15 arnsholt That might be doable
21:18 arnsholt Aha! NQP_VERBOSE_EXCEPTIONS=1
21:20 arnsholt jnthn: Are there any VM-specific bits to Rakudo's container stuff?
21:21 jnthn arnsholt: Yes.
21:21 jnthn arnsholt: container.c for Parrot and MoarVM, and a couple of java classes (that should have container in the name) are in rakudo-runtime.jar
21:22 arnsholt Right
21:22 arnsholt There's something weird with "my $x = CArray.new" on JVM, might look like an unimplemented REPRop or something
21:23 jnthn Oh?
21:23 jnthn What error are you seeing, ooc?
21:23 arnsholt On JVM, ``use NativeCall; my $x := CArray[int].new; $x[0] := 1; say "alive"'' works, while ``use NativeCall; my $x := CArray[int].new; $x[0] = 1; say "alive"'' fails with "java.lang.RuntimeException: This type does not support positional operations"
21:23 arnsholt Er, s/:=/= in the second one
21:24 arnsholt So binding the CArray to $x works fine, but assigning doesn't
21:24 jnthn lemme glance NativeCall...
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21:24 arnsholt The verbose exception thing shows that the error is coming from P6Opaque
21:24 arnsholt It works fine on Parrot
21:27 * jnthn wonders how on earth the binding case works at all
21:27 arnsholt Heh
21:28 jnthn On this line:
21:28 jnthn nqp::bindpos_i(arr, nqp::unbox_i($pos.Int), $v);
21:28 jnthn try an nqp::decont(arr) instead.
21:28 arnsholt Sounds plausible
21:29 arnsholt Prints alive \o/
21:29 arnsholt Thanks!
21:30 jnthn \o/
21:30 arnsholt That might be the cause for some other weirdness I'm seeing with JVM and CArray too, actually
21:30 jnthn Put in the nqp::decont to Zavolaj; I think we'll want them for Moar too
21:30 arnsholt Probably
21:31 arnsholt I'm gonna add some tests to the CArray suite anyways. Turns out the CArray implementation on JVM wasn't quite as complete as I imagined =)
21:31 jnthn yay :)
21:31 arnsholt So I'll be a good TDD citizen and write some tests first =)
21:32 kaare__ joined #perl6
21:33 arnsholt But first sleep, I think
21:33 arnsholt See you folks tomorrow
21:33 FROGGS gnight arnsholt++
21:33 jnthn 'night, arnsholt++
21:34 masak 'night, arnsholt++
21:34 tadzik wow, it's late already :o
21:40 beastd joined #perl6
21:48 * masak always liked the fortune "It's later than you think."
21:49 FROGGS jnthn: I know now why Perl5::Terms infiniloops when using the ustom postcircumfix
21:49 FROGGS customm*
21:49 FROGGS gah!
21:49 FROGGS custom*
21:50 masak 'night, #perl6
21:50 FROGGS it is an indirect method call that happends all the time, and Perl5::Terms is huge so it tries to match this postcircumfix almost everywhere in that code
21:50 FROGGS I guess it will succeed, but not today :o(
21:50 FROGGS night masak
21:51 FROGGS so, I am ripping out that postcircumfix from v5
21:51 jnthn I'd not imagine it's *that* slow...
21:51 FROGGS jnthn: shall I commit that postcirumfix code for rakudo anyway?
21:51 jnthn LTM should stop you ending up there, no?
21:52 jnthn FROGGS: Yes, preferably with a spectest or two for custom postcircumfixes...and provided it doesn't break anything else, of course.
21:52 FROGGS jnthn: I already spectested it
21:53 FROGGS jnthn: maybe LTM does not catch because $starter is not a literal?
21:54 jnthn FROGGS: But it's in a parametric role, iirc?
21:54 jnthn And those are constant after interpolation
21:54 jnthn The NFA stuff has a some stuff in for genericity of this kind...
21:54 FROGGS it is in the role, yes
21:55 jnthn Then it should work out
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22:06 smls perl6: sub foo($x) is cached { say "foo called with $x"; 2 ** $x }; say foo 10; say foo 10;
22:06 yoleaux 21:03Z <skids> smls: backslash stripping is usually ensconced in the syntax parsing in the first stages of brace expansion.  Not stripping them is actually harder than stripping them.
22:06 camelia rakudo-parrot c2982d, rakudo-jvm c2982d, rakudo-moar c2982d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Can't use unknown trait 'is cached' in a sub declaration.â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> â�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        rw parcel hidden_from_ba…»
22:06 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled trait cached for this context at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤------> [32msub foo($x) is cached [33mâ��[31m{ say "foo called with $x"; 2 ** $x }; s[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p…»
22:06 smls ^^am I doing it wrong, or is is just NYI?
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22:07 tadzik timotimo: I like the table solution :)
22:07 smls skids: but wildcard expansion happens after brace expansion (at least conceptually), and it the backslashes to know which potential wildcards are escaped
22:08 smls *needs
22:09 smls re "Not stripping them is actually harder than stripping them", I don't see any evidence of that in the three solutions that have been posted so far on the rosetta page.
22:09 timotimo tadzik: thank you kindly
22:10 tadzik it's a lot saner
22:10 timotimo tadzik: but i was kind of scared, it could be called "two-pass parsing"
22:10 timotimo which TimToady++ really doesn't want to have anywhere near perl6 for good reasons
22:10 tadzik do you have any idea how many passes is the current parser using? :P
22:10 tadzik hard to say, because it's post-processing the rows
22:11 diakopter N
22:11 jnap joined #perl6
22:11 timotimo
22:19 jnthn smls: as far as I know, nyi
22:22 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 0ff0a36 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
22:22 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
22:22 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/0ff0a3636c
22:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1896ed6 | coke++ | / (6 files):
22:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/1896ed6a03
22:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: e950485 | coke++ | / (6 files):
22:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/e950485510
22:30 timotimo ah, 99.38% of jvm. not bad!
22:30 timotimo oh, we've been at a better percentage recently
22:32 jnthn Wow, S32 is a bigger source of fail than S05 now
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